>Can I play as a sith? Can I play as a grey jedi?

>can I play as a Sith?
Disciples of Harmony says you can. Good luck finding a master in the Imperial era; Palpy and Vader don't like competition. Also enjoy the fact dark side is playable but expressly worse than staying true to the light.

Grey jedi are the worst thing to happen to Star Wars. The 'chaotic neutral' of Star Wars rpgs.

>>53896199
>how dare someone want to play as something

>>53896651
how dare anyone suggest anyone plays anything ?

>>53896651
Didn't you hear? Fun is banned in Star Wars now.

>>53896690
>now
fun was banned a long time ago ...

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>>53896710
Really? I thought it was banned when Lucas left and Hidalgo took a massive shit on the expanded universe. But you're right, there'll always be jackass GMs with double-bladed hilts wedged up their asses.

>>53896614
The alternative is True Neutral since Jedi are cunts who hate emotions.

Seriously, every single instance of the Jedi Order up until Luke's is full of cunts.

>>53896614
It may not really work in the original trilogy, which is thematically much more fantastical and features black-and-white/good-versus/evil morality more heavily, but in everything else, there's plenty of room for a moral spectrum. In a conflict where both sides adhere to a prescriptive moral code (and an incredibly inconsistent one, as far as the Jedi go), someone with personal moral beliefs can't necessarily choose a side.
Grey jedi, I think, cover all other alignments besides Lawful Good and Lawful Evil, those being the Jedi and Sith respectively. They're the allowance that let jedi exist in a more believable Sci-fi universe.

>>53896902
Most Jedi Orders end up being closer to Lawful Neutral than anything. I'm hesitant to call them Good no matter what they say considering how vicious they can be to anyone who breaks a rule or who disagrees with them on something.

>>53896199

Can I just play a pulp space wizard wielding a laser sword without worrying about stupid philosophies?

>>53897053
Sure, but then we might as well be playing a Mageworld tabletop

>>53897114

Well I was thinking more Flash Gordon with psychic powers but whatever.

>>53897050
Still though

>>53896199

Sith yes. Don't have a clue about what the hell a grey jedi is meant to be so, no.

Star Wars would be a lot better if the Dark Side didn't act like cliche antidrug propaganda drugs do.

>Smoking one joint will turn you into a crackwhore terrorist.
>Using the Force for personal gain will absolutely turn you into a baby eating Sith Lord.

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>>53896199
>Can I play as a grey jedi?
You mean a rogue or former Jedi? Sure. The term itself is stupid, not wanting to be a force user independent of the Jedi Order and the Sith Lords. In fact, I think that's what the Sequels need to introduce most of all. But no being a Jedi AND being edgy, unless you want to go through roleplaying being kicked out of the order.

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Why is General Kenobi, aka Obi Wan in battle armor the coolest motherfucker around?

Name a better aesthetic.

I just channel Anakin Skywalker in Episodes II and III. Nothing but grousing about sand and outbursts about how my point of view is different.

>>53900427
And finding an old politician to be your daddy?

>>53896199
>can I play as a sith?
Sure, as long as you have a good reason to help the party out.
>can I play as a grey jedi?
Knock yourself out. Just don't mouth off to the council if you're doing a Qui-gon thing.

>>53902211
>Qui-gon thing
You mean Qui-gon Jin?

>>53896902
Grey Jedi are only useful if you're the kind of autistic fuck nut that reduces sith and jedi into cookie cutter stereotypes, either logic bots or over-emotional sadists. Jedi and Sith already cover a wide array of characterizations and moralities.

>>53898871
It's not the act but the shit leading up to it that constitutes the fall. All throughout the old-EU you'll find stories of Jedi doing morally questionable shit, getting mad, ect. Luke is the prime example of this. But the Jedi who do it and stay Jedi still believe in the fundamental philosophy of oneness and the will of the force. When Jedi stray from this and start to see the force as a tool for accomplishing material objectives alone is when they start to fall prey to the dark side. The dark side doesn't really get a fair treatment in most EU material but it's not an alien philosophy to our world. The dark side sees the galaxy as strife, it sees life as an amoral, chiefly aesthetic phenomenon. There is no underpinning will, there are no underpinning rules. Do what thou wilt is the whole of the law. And this doesn't necessarily mean starting up a fascist space empire, many dark siders fuck off to remote parts of the galaxy to do their own things.

Compare Luke and Anakin, Luke's heart was always in the right place. He may have gotten pissed off but it was over his friends and his friends alone, and he was able to turn away from committing patricide even though it seemed suicidal. He overcame what the old Jedi order, that had become too wrapped up in power politics, could not.

Anakin's different. His concern and love of Padme are important in his fall but not the only factor. He feels alienated from the order. You could see it in Episode II, none of the other Jedi really understood what it meant to lose a mother, particularly when you have such a close bond as mother and son living under slavery together. The Jedi didn't trust him because they all saw something in him that didn't settle quite right with the order.

And they were right to sense this because Anakin was sent to destroy both the Jedi and Sith so they could start the game over from scratch. The Jedi were fucked from the moment that Jinny boy decided to conscript Annie.

>if you're the kind of autistic fuck nut that reduces sith and jedi into cookie cutter stereotypes
So George Lucas?

>>53902234
He means, "I'm going to stay with the order and mostly do what the council/code tells me, but I will still take my own initiative, follow my gut, and try to feel the Force instead of just using it for my own ends."

>Can I play as [obscure species from the Extended Universe that just so happens to match my fursona]

YOU'VE HAD 3 FOSH CHARACTERS, THEY'RE NOT THAT COMMON.

>>53896825
What was wrong with the order in Revan's time, aside from not wanting to get involved in the Mandolorian Wars?

>>53903495
I don't remember anyone by that name.

>>53903589
>Yeah but they're all from different planets and different generations of /probably/ the same character that slugged around the galaxy

>>53903589

Should've told him about the Rishii or the Talortai. Honestly if you want to furfag it up as a space bird there's way better options than fosh.

>>53896199
Daily reminder that the Empire was right and while the Sith were flawed they were a better alternative than the Jedi.

>>53904094
the sith are baby-eaters, dude.

>Starting as a Sith
>Not starting as a Jedi, having a moment of emotional weakness, which leads to a series of poor and impulsive decisions
>Not one day waking up to realize that you broke vow after vow
>Not embracing this new life, as you realize it left you happier than you ever were within the order
>Not becoming a shell of a man as the new center of your life is ripped from you, and all you have left is suffering

>>53903608
They refuse to engage with anyone else in the Galaxy, kill or mindrape anyone that disagrees with them, and generally considers any force sensitive to be under their jurisdiction to be judged as they will.

They also have the whole anti-emotion and humanity thing that you see in the prequel jedi.

The best Star Wars game I ran was one set in the Rebellion era where all the players were supposed to be Rebels (this is what they told me they wanted) except one guy changed his mind and said he wanted to play Sith. I allowed it provided he gave an excuse for working with the guys. His excuse: he's a Sith who wants to destroy Vader and Palpatine so that he can become the Lord of the Sith, and was working with the Rebels just to achieve this goal. He and I decided that he was one of Dooku's secret apprentices as a child.

The whole thing was a lot of fun because he had to pretend he was a Jedi who was pretending to not be a Jedi who was secretly this Sith. None of the other players made a Jedi so he was supposed to be their token Jedi who provided wisdom and ethical support, meanwhile he was doing his best to subtly corrupt them. He eventually got really close with one of the player characters and he became his apprentice and started taking Jedi levels.

After a while, people started moving a way so I decided to wrap up the campaign by giving them a final encounter with Vader while the other guys were taking care of Death Star II. Sith and apprentice completely rock Vader. Palpatine offers them a spot under him but they refuse and kill him, too. Then the Sith takes Emperor Palpatine's throne and sabotages the other player's plans by detonating explosives that he'd set on their ships. They were completely blindsided by it, since they figured it was going to go down like Return of the Jedi. And since the other players were the main strike force for the Rebels, it meant that their assault on Death Star II was going to fail.

So basically, the game ended with a Sith player and his apprentice assuming the heir of the Empire. Of course, if we had kept it going, I probably wouldn't have given the Empire to them that easily, I probably would have had splinter factions refuse to follow the usurper Emperor, but for a last session, I felt I gave them a good farewell.

>>53902240
>Grey Jedi are only useful if you're the kind of autistic fuck nut that reduces sith and jedi into cookie cutter stereotypes
You mean like Lucas wrote?

Reminder that prequels ruined the jedi forever, and EU cemented it. Forever they will be thought of emotionless robots who hate fun and love, even though neither Obi Wan, nor Yoda acted this way in the originals.
Maybe breaking this stereotype will be the one good thing the sequel trilogy will do.

>>53896199
How dare someone want to be a force user, but not being a boring, pretentious jedi

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>>53907546
Yes. But not the jedi we see in the expanded cannon. In the EU even with the shit parts added in, we still see what amounts to a spectrum of good results vs good intents. Its a massive question of what makes something the right thing to do.

In the old republic we have the mandolorian wars, which is a question of acting to save a republic that cant defend itself and not doing anything in fear of provoking more wixespread fighting and emboldening whoever is behind the aggression.

In the clonewars the question is not only do jedi fight wars if it is required to defend the state, or remain secluded and excused. This is a bit more of an allegiance question, as the jedi of the prequels see themselves as republic generals who are also jedi, not jedi who are generals. The question is where do their loyalties lie first?

In the OT the question is one of righteousness in the face of lawfullness. A government, however justly created, that commits atrocities, is still a matter of state. Do you organize against it even if that would be breaking the law. Its also a question of allegiences but on a more personable level. Do you give your allegiance to people or to organizations first?

In the EU all sorts of shit happens, but the worst and possibly best set of morally ambiguous questions is with relations to the vong. When you face an enemy that you cannot defeat, do you go to any length to survive, or capitulate? Especially in relation to the enemy you already defeated for similar atrocities.

While lucas may not have written the most comples space opera, it built itself into an interesting universe.

>>53897313
>>53900284

I find it strange as well. You either draw on your emotion for power and let it control you (and are thus a darksider) or you don't.

You're really able to be as emotional as you want as a Jedi, so long as you do not let your emotions cloud your judgement, control your actions, or be drawn upon for power. Trust the force, all is as it wills it.

>>53896825
Cunts who are still trying to make the world a nicer place.

Better flawed cops then any sort of objectively evil pro-space Nazi cultists.

>>53908098
>You're really able to be as emotional as you want as a Jedi
That's not what the Jedi Order says.

>>53908130
>Cunts who are still trying to make the world a nicer place.
No actually, Jedi more often than not keep out of worldly affairs entirely.

>>53901369
I NEED HIM

>>53896199
No gay jedi. It's like making up a new gender.

>>53908256
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=infZSKB5L9I
Look at all those emotions.

>>53909009
It's almost like you're in a timewarp and missed the prequels entirely.

>>53909105
https://youtu.be/k52HWEr8Rv0
Look at all THOSE emotions!

>>53909105
>It's almost like you're in a timewarp and missed the prequels entirely.
That's not a bad thing.

>>53909143
In light of the Prequels, anon, Obi-Wan and his master Qui-Gon-Jinn were heretics who were in danger of being imprisoned or exiled by the order.

Look, I know the original trilogy was way better and showed the Jedi in a much more human light, but that's not the canon anymore.

>>53909161
God no, he's super fucking lucky.

>>53908266
>For over a thousand generations, the Jedi knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the old Republic.

>>53909218
Have you actually played an Old Republic game? The Jedi intentionally do not get involved in public affairs unless they involve the force.

>>53909218
It's true from a certain point of view.

>>53909178
>In light of the Prequels, anon, Obi-Wan and his master Qui-Gon-Jinn were heretics who were in danger of being imprisoned or exiled by the order.
No they weren't.

>>53909272
Yes they were, you need to look this shit up. They believed in a concept called the Living Force which wasn't in-line with the Jedi canon at the time.

>>53909233
I think A New Hope is more canon than the KoTOR games.

>>53909309
If you want to get into a canon pissing contest then we have a thousand different depictions of a thousand different orders, and no argument can be made.

>>53909331
What he means is, KOTOR is currently not canon at all, as is the entire EU.

>>53909343
Well no duh, but if he wants to talk exclusively Disney shit then I'm going to have to check out, because I've hated all of their movies.

>>53909376
Well, me personally, I thought they broke new ground.

>>53909404
This sounds like a joke and I'm just not in a position to find it funny.

>start running star wars campaign
>6 players
>everyone is a force adept except one noble
>also two jedi
>it's post-order 66, so order 66 is going to happen any day now
>they are level 1 still and will have to hide / evade dozens of clone troopers on a planet that is basically coruscant but in ruins

I am actually kind of optimistic about this campaign. Gritty survival star wars.

>>53907988
Lucas was a scummer, he sold the story to scummers, who used it as a political tool, and ruined the setting for many with heavy handed draconian bullshit.

Starwars is an old story, and there are new better stories out there to explore and enjoy.

>>53909422
Good luck with that. I've played in a similiar game about order 66, and DM didn't ban Skill Focus (use the force). Needless to say, we made a complete mockery of the Empire, and even defeated Darth Vader on early levels - with some liberal use of destiny points, but the point stands.

>>53909178
Actually, in light of the prequels, Obi-Wan and Yoda realised that repressing their emotions is a really fucking dumb idea.
Might not be what Lucas intended, but that's what I'm taking from it

>>53896199
Can I just play some OT-Era space samurai monk?

>>53909404

AT-STs! AT-STs!

>>53907530
That sounds like it was a really fun campaign.

>>53910021

Yes, basically this.

A Jedi hardens him/herself by confronting the darkside, knowing what it is within them, and overcoming it. This is why Yoda sent Luke into the cave on Dagobah.

Suppressing your emotions and pretending the dark side doesn't exist led to the destruction of the Jedi order.

>>53910532
>>53910021
Definitely not the intent, but not a bad message to get. I've said repeatedly that only the orders up until Luke were retarded, and Luke himself takes the message that suppressing emotions and trying to cut Jedi off from human life is the wrong way to go (hence why his Order allows emotions and even things like marriage and family.)

>>53900395

>Other bitch ass jedi just stick with robes
>Obi sees that there's a fucking war going on and puts a suit of armour on like a smart motherfucker
>Looks like a space paladin in the process

>>53896199
>"I wanna be a jedi! I wanna be a sith!"
No.
"The force" is one of the worst blights inflicted on star wars in the classical era, right next to the prequels and animated series. It's a series of codified "fuck yous" to the DMs and authorial intent alike. Any stupid shit your player wants to do they justify with "the force" Any fun character shit or stupid weapons (fucking LIGHTSABERS) has them whining for the force. They beg for speshul snowflake races, lightsabers, and stupid sith on the pretense of "force" And on the flipside, star wars with actual artistry and modern research put in has them gets shit on as "boring"
I am sick and tired of coddled Millenials expecting that their actions should have no consequences and that they should have a robed dude there to throw trucks at all the bad guys and mind trick, and being convinced that if they DIE and LOSE THE GAME that they don't have to really really lose because ~its the force~!
I tried introducing my players to this cool soft star wars campaign I wanted to run last weekend so they could bring their characters this week, and they immediately started the usual shit.
>"I want my character to be a mandalorian!"
There are no mandalorians. They are almost extinct.
>"I want to be an imperial!"
There are no imperials in hutt space.
>"Yeah but there might be!"
It never fucking stops. Now I have to find a whole new group because every shitty ass player nowadays is bewitched into thinking everything should be like the shit wars. Nobody expected to read about a cloned dual-blaster
wielding mandalorian bounty hunter in Star Wars. It should not be acceptable today either.
There is a MASSIVE gulf nowadays between real star wars and the unrealistic theater tripe being thrown around, and it's getting harder and harder to find people who aren't blinded by the force and are receptive to planned and researched settings/plots. They think they're entitled to be jedi instead of part of something smaller.

>>53910629
Wow I guess you don't like Star Wars then.

>>53907546
Lucas wrote Luke so I don't understand your point, family

>>53896199
I always assumed that grey-jedi is just the popular term for force users that aren't retarded. But now I hear that they are something more specific canonical.
So what are they?

>>53908266
Jedi do nothing but meddle through 7 star wars films

>>53910681
Luke is an anomaly, but a lot of his anomalous attitude was by EU writers. You and I and everyone else also knows that the OT was co-written and helped along by several people and Lucas himself tried to push the no-emotions Jedi of later works.

>>53910700
Almost like the ones doing it are outliers.

>>53910651
sure smells like summer in here

>>53910021
>Might not be what Lucas intended, but that's what I'm taking from it

Why do you think he didn't mean it when that's literally and clearly what happens during the story he wrote?

>>53910629

This feels like copypasta. Original possibly complaining about fantasy diverging from Tolkien?

>>53909404
I found the recycled designs to be very cool, very cool.

>>53910629
Waiter, this simply will not do.
I ordered a fresh Katana pasta, with a dash of Star Wars Seasoning, garnished with the finest Dullest Franchise you have to offer.

I must insist on seeing your manager.

>>53896199
Regular Jedi are boring as fuck and always were. Deal with it.

>>53910685
Force users who don't tip toe down the lame ass Jedi path, but also don't go around murdering children and listening to old psychopaths.

>>53910714
>Luke is an anomaly

Luke is the culmination of 3 (later 6) films of growth and development. The prequels are a tragedy in which an imperfect society crumbles into greater darkness, only for a hero to finally emerge.

How do you watch that and conclude that Lucas thinks the Prequel's "stoic" Jedi are his ideal?

>>53896710
and in a galaxy far away

>>53910731
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/49764993/

>>53900395
>>53910619
>can use a blaster well if he downright has to, but prefers to rely on his own skills
>infiltrates bad guy plans like it's nothing

He should have been the real main character.

>>53910685
It's a term for donut steels, who shoot lightning out of their fingers, but are totally good guys.
>Light side and dark side are both bad!

>>53910934
There's actually a Light Side technique that shoots lightning out of your fingers.

>>53902364
Another thing, the Jedi order had their heads up their own asses 24/7. Despite being all about democracy and choice, they have so many rules. Said rules they also trample upon & have the gall to criticize others for doing the same. Within III alone, Anakin states "It's not the Jedi way" numerous times & sees the Jedi themselves violate their own rules nonchalantly. Despite having his own selfish problems, Anakin did have some legitimate points about the Jedi not following their own rules

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>>53910902
>best banter
>best level of ability and power for a protagonist
>some of the best character growth
>got best girl
>best aesthetic in his every incarnation
>gets the best actors
If it weren't for Luke's confrontation with Palpatine, I'd ask how can any other protagonist even compete?

>>53907530

>and kill him too

You either underpowered the Emperor or gave your players 10k+ XP.

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This is a $300+

>>53910984
A good example of EU cancer.

>>53915980
>Copy/pasting or Trying to One Up the OT
>Needlessly focusing on an incredibly minor detail
>Special Snowflakes
Is that the unholy EU trinity?

>>53909272
Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan have an extended conversation in Episode I about how Qui-Gon's already on thin ice with the council because of how he doesn't fully buy into their shit, and Qui-Gon specifically says he'll defy the council and expects Obi-Wan to do the same in the event of his death.

Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan being heretics is specifically why Anakin was allowed to go as far away from the light as he did. If he'd been under a stricter or more orthodox teacher (assuming he got in at all), Vader likely wouldn't have even been a possibility.

The Prequels are retarded as fuck, but half of this is in the original trilogy as well, so you don't even have that as an excuse.