/hhg/ - Horus Heresy General

>>53867581
>not decimating yourself

>>53867581
Curze did nothing wrong

Rolled 7 (1d10)

>>53867600
Check em

>>53867600
Can one man be decimated? Surely you'd need ten.

>>53867625
Just remove 1/10 of him.

Rolled 8 (1d10)

>>53867600
Can't argue with dubs.
Calling it that 1s are ded, 10s are alright..

>>53867620
REEEEEE IMPERIAL FISTS OUT.

>>53867625
One finger one toe one rib and one eyebrow hair
>>53867637
Of course only the strong survive my battle brother

>>53867636
If you want to go for PROPER decimation, you need a way for a man to randomly select specific parts of his body and beat on tenth of himself to death.

Want to start painting my Night Lords, how does /hhg/ motivate themselves to get started?

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>>53867647
Jokes on you I'm the loyalist shard of Pertubao who killed his men willingly as he foresaw the heresy but knew no man would believe him, and thus weakened the traitor forces.
>>53867660
Oh yes only clubs no swords

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Do we have any pictorial representation of what the Butcher's Nails looked like when implanted? If you looked at someone's head, what would be visible? Surely they can't all have cable dreads like Angron's, right?

>>53867667
By reading about them in The Horus Heresy Series and getting psyked up but of course that doesn't work with NL because they lose even when they outnumber 1 million to 1

>>53867667
>how does /hhg/ motivate themselves to get started?
I hold audiobooks ransom from myself. If I want to know what happens next I need to paint. Working through Heinlein right now.

>>53867680
Nope, I think it's supposed to be like a crab that stabs the brain if it shows the wrong emotions, so happiness scars over and anger is constantly activated
if Angron fought to remove the nails pain why didn't he just kill himself

>>53867680
Why does he wear the mask?

Going by Kharn's model it seems like all of them actually do have cables sticking out of their skulls.

>>53867699
Angron is a lot of things but he ain't no quitter.

>>53867736
Which is why he refused all medical help to deal with the nails to die faster until Erebus came up with this great idea to make him a daemon and kill all the crew

>>53867736
The fact that their called "nails" makes me think that they're actual functional components are relatively thin spikes of circuitry jammed into the subjects cranium. Maybe Angron's primach skull was so big and meaty they gave him the super-delux version so he's got a bazillion live-wires supercharging the angry juice part of his brain.

>>53867771
Angron was given the actual dark age of technology version, his underlings were given copies
Have you even read betrayer

I'm considering doing up my White Scars in a shiny white like the cyan/red of the Alpha Legion and Thousand Sons respectively. What's the best way to go about doing this? I know about tamiya clear over metallic but they don't have clear white paint.

>>53867765
>Which is why he refused all medical help to deal with the nails
Clearly not all help considering the Emperor was fucking around with his head in MoM and concluded it was hopeless. Also you can't really blame Angron for poor decision making when he has a device that stabs him in the brain whenever he isn't furious.

>>53867681
>>53867693

Yeh they have become mustache twirling villains in the books. I'll find prince of crows audio book and try and get fired up for it.
I think part of it is knowing I have a 3k list to paint up but if I break it up into squads it should be more manageable.

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>Was initially going to start Salamanders
>Love them but they weren't at Terra
>Didn't want to paint red and BA are only ok to me
>FUUUUUCK painting white but I love WS
>Oh you used to play Lamenters how bad can IF be?
>Love IF to death
>Wait to buy stuff because I'm working on Custodes
>GF buys me BaC and BoP for my birthday in May
>Uh oh
>Fast forward to now
>Have 5.5k of HH IF built
>Only 6 models painted as Custodes take priority for me

Why did I do this to myself. I knew better.

>>53869742
>he doesn't want 5k poInts of each legion
How else are you suppiused to figure out which legion is best

>>53867861
I have no idea where you'd even begin with an iridescent pearl color. Definitely not going to be a GW color though.

>>53869779
Well, you can immediately discount Word Bearers, Night Lords and Thousand Wrongs, so you only need a 5k army of 15 legions.

>>53867861
A white pearl is probably your best bet (and wouldn't need a metallic base, you'd want to prime white (or very light grey) though, most pearlescent paints have low coverage.

As for what brands have that colour.

Schmincke has a whole line of pearls that will stay white over a white base, but give a slight glow in another colour depending on what you select.
Createx Wicked Pearl White is another option, as it's a nice pearl/metallic white.
Inspire Silver Pearl is also an option.

Keep in mind, these are all airbrush paints, not sure how they'll respond to being applied with a brush.

Daler Rowney Silver Pearl could also work, this is an acrylic ink, so it should be fine to apply with a brush, though airbrush is probably easier.

>>53869954
Loyalfag detected

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Anyone got any homebrew rules for Thunder Warriors?

Toughness 5 maybe, 2 attacks, Rage and "Unstable" rule.

"Unstable" would be roll a D6 at the end of each turn, on a 6 the model suffers a wound, no saves allowed. Fits the background in my opinion.

>>53870276
There is nothing wrong with being a loyalist.
>>53870302
Chymeriae blackshields.

>>53870302
Thunder Warriors are a meme, do S5 T5 black shields using primaris marines like everyone else and shut up about it.

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>>53870328
>>53870378
I like the idea of using Blackshields.

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>>53870429
>I like the idea of using Blackshields.
Unsurprising, considering S/T5 blackshields are also a meme.

>>53870460
Meme in a meme, I like it.

FW Resin Cataphractii are far superior to GW plastic Cataphractii.

the difference in detail is staggering.

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Trying to make alternatives for the praesidium shields my Haeteroi get.
Which version do you guys prefer? The (still unassembled) compact version with the angled wings or the wide one with the spread wings? Or should I just suck it up and use the standard version?

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What did chain axes do again, was it +1 Strength and AP4?

>>53870742
I really like those two but you need to stay shields maybe the middle one if you add little more wing to be a shield

>>53870742
The one on the right just looks depressed.

>>53870824
Used to be nothing
Then +strength
Then +stnregth AP4
I think 8th ed went back to normal CCW

>>53867680
The bare Berzerker head has them. They look much like any other wires shoved into a marine's brain.

>>53870872
I see, thanks!

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>>53867672
>Jokes on you I'm the loyalist shard of Pertubao who killed his men willingly as he foresaw the heresy but knew no man would believe him, and thus weakened the traitor forces.
Fucking keked. The current state of BL means this is an actual possibility.

If I attach an independent character with outflank to a squad, does the whole squad gain outflank?

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>>53867581
Fun thing about priming IWs is that you can't easily tell when you've got enough primer on.
Really happy the paint isn't as thick as when I did some CSMs years ago, but it does look like still 1.5 primer coats than the normal 2.
Anyone got the battle of prospero paint guide for IW

>>53871576
*The normal 1
How well do washes work on vechiles

>>53871594
>How well do washes work on vechiles
need to be more focussed with them in my experience. Just painting the whole model in them gets patchy fast, but specifically in the nooks and crannies works just fine.

>>53871471
Read book.

>>53871646
The calth dreadnought, as the normal IW paint order is a metal and then 2-3 washes of the black and brown wash

>>53871840
Not sure, would be easy to do with an airbrush I imagine, but with a brush the high surface tension of the wash (that usually helps you) works against you, creating pools on the large flat surfaces, perhaps other Anons have a way to make that work?

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> they're just my version of true scale mk4 armour mate.


It's coming anons. Primaris everywhere in 30k.

>>53872163
That pic is just a comparison of the helmets, not intended as a conversion.

>>53871594
It depends on what you mean. If you're intending to do like a filter-type wash on a large flat panel, they probably wouldn't work very well (and I'd recommend using a glaze instead). If it's a pin-wash you're looking to do, it works just as well on a vehicle as anything else.

>>53872163
MkX looks so different from mk4, I'm not worried too much.

Also, at my store I play against Aliens 90% of the time, and I'm nore worried about them preferring babby 8th over 7th.

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>>53872163
Honestly, I don't see the issue, especially for Blackshields.

>>53872163
Kek it looks workable, only the chest and legs need to be replaced but besides those it's the same thing. :^)

>>53872399
Probably the rest of the armour being non-existent during the setting of the game, as well as armies of 9 feet tall marines not being exactly all that common either.
But whatevs, people gonna play what they want. If a poorfag army of Big Guys is your dream, go build your dream.

>>53872499
Problem is if you replaced the legs and the torso, the arms would be too long and the backpack too large, so they'd have to be replaced too, but apart from that I agree.

Now that Custodes have been playable for a while, have people worked out the good strategies to beat them? I've been thinking about starting them as my loyalist army.

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>>53872163
>mfw

>>53872504
>poorfag
have fun with your manlets friendo, you can even see how much better of a sculpt that plastic primaris is compared to the mk4 marine.

>>53873237
There's no need to get upset about something that's factually accurate and causes no harm. Go live your dream of 9 foot tall black superhumans in gear and weapons from 10,000 years in the future, anon, with my heartfelt blessing. Having a vision is a beautiful thing.

>>53872998
You should ensure to build over 90 of them, and get 4 grav tanks. That way you'll be the best Custodes player. And once you get started posting your unpainted plastic, give yourself a wacky name but don't actually type it in the namefield, because it's important the rest of us always know who you are when you post.
Just don't buy a dreadnought if you have any transgender friends.

>>53873407
>>53872998
Oh yeah, make sure to create made up stories about how the manager totally gave you %100$ for being such an upstanding person for transgender right.

>>53873407
Posts like this make me proud I play talons as an allied detachment the way the Bligh-Emperor intended.

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I'm fairly new to 30k and have been building a thousand sons force slowly for a while now. Here's a starting list I have, I only have the Prospero box, an extra tartaros set, the vehicles, and the dreadnought. I'm planning on getting a set of 10 khenatai blades and Amon to use as a Praetor stand-in to fill this out.

Its a bit low on AT, but I've been told the list is fairly solid? If elite. I believe everything here is correct and legal. Suggestions are needed, especially for loadouts and future purchases.

3,000 points Thousand Sons
Pride of the Legion
>Azhek Ahriman (Warlord)
Corvidae (Divination)
>Legion Praetor
Pavoni (Biomancy)
ML3
Arcane Litanies
Artificer Armor
Iron Halo
Asphyx Shells
Bolt Pistol
Master crafted Force sword
Digital Lasers

>Khenatai Blades
Pavoni
8+Blademaster w/AA
>Land Raider Phobos
Armored Ceramite
Dozer Blade
Auxiliary drive
Extra Armor
>Legion Contemptor Dreadnought
Twin linked Volkite Culverin
Power Fist with twin linked bolter

>Legion Tartaros Terminator squad
Raptor (telekinesis)
4+sergeant
Twin linked bolters and powerfists
Brotherhood of Psykers ML1
Asphyx Shells
>Legion Tartaros Terminator squad
Raptor (telekinesis)
4+sergeant
Twin lightning claws
Brotherhood of Psykers ML1
>Legion Veteran Squad
Corvidae
9+sergeant with AA/powersword
10 bolters
Asphyx Shells
Brotherhood of Psykers ML1
Tactics: Marksmen
>Legion Rhino
Dozer Blade
Havoc Launcher
>Legion Veteran Squad
Corvidae
9+sergeant with AA/powersword
10 bolters
Asphyx Shells
Brotherhood of Psykers ML1
Tactics: Marksmen
>Legion Rhino
Dozer Blade
Havoc Launcher
>Legion Veteran Squad
Corvidae
9+sergeant with AA/powersword
10 bolters
Asphyx Shells
Brotherhood of Psykers ML1
Tactics: Marksmen
>Legion Rhino
Dozer Blade
Havoc Launcher

>Predator Squadron
Lascannon sponsons
Plasma turret
Machine Spirit
>Predator Squadron
Lascannon sponsons
Plasma turret
Machine spirit

>>53873660
>>Legion Praetor
>Pavoni (Biomancy)
>ML3
>Arcane Litanies
>Artificer Armor
>Iron Halo
>Asphyx Shells
>Bolt Pistol
>Master crafted Force sword
>Digital Lasers
Sweet Emperor my eyes, learn to format your shit.

>>53873237
Go back to the 40k

>>53873660
I run a Corvidae Pride 1KSons list. Personally, I don't like this list. It's not bad but it smacks of not really committing.

You're taking the ML3 Biomancer Praetor just to have a beatstick. The Blades don't need him to do damage, and using such an expensive and fragile squad as his meatshields is odd. It's a weak deathstar in terms of survivabilty.

While 2 ICs in TS lists is a good idea, taking ML4 army-buffer Ariman and ML3 Beatstick Biomancer is expensive and schizophrenic.

Your Legion Terminators aren't really doing anything that Sekhmet can't.

Predators are a bit meh as a unit choice.

So, you scout 3 vet squads and just fire bolters with them all game. Could be worse as they're TS. Rhinos not hugely helpful if they're not outflanking depending on the terrain of the board.
Meanwhile Biomancer and the Blade Bus roll forward as your deathstar. They'll get focussed on before the Predators and Terminators. The Terminators are just stomping forward with short-range loadouts and a weak power each.
Your army is easy to take apart piece by piece, but you can't keep them together as the Blade Bus needs to be wrecking shit up, and seeing as Blades die like normal marines, you need to commit to an assault with all your guys but your Termies are 12 inches or more behind. Your Preds aren't supporting as they're literally all your anti-armour.
The usual advice if you don't know your local meta is to either build a full fluff fun list and just deal with being tabled sometimes or, at the least, make sure you have anti-armour, anti-air and pie plates.

I was quite harsh but don't be dishearted, it's still a workable list and could fuk up people who aren't rolling heavy.
Do the points comparison on Legion Termies vs Sekhmets at least and see if you can change them out, there's a reason we all say Sekhs are undercosted. Then levitate a squad of them up with your blades and go in together.

>>53870634
Fair point. I like the plastic tartaros more though.

I think FW sculpts are pretty much impossible to beat but goddamn I wish that they would've just upscaled regular marines because I like the size of Primaris a lot more.

>>53869843
>>53870059
Thanks a lot, I really appreciate the suggestions. I'll look into them.

How is 30k handling 8th Ed?

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>>53874629
By dropping it.

>>53874629
judging by how slow the generals are, 30k community is handling it by dying.

>>53874264
It's obviously impossible to increase their scale at this point but I think some of the basic astartes infantry could use a resculpt. MkIV in particular is really showing its age.

>>53873237
>he spends more for less marines
I haven't seen retardation like this since AWG's '""""truscale""""
Anyway it's just new Cadians and catachans we need

>>53875258
>mk4 showing its age m
Does not compute besides the sideways studs

>>53874036
>Legion terminators and predators are meh
Yes, ive been told that, but I have to play with what I've got. Can I just say that my tartare terminators are sekhmet? I dont have a box of 40k 1ksons termies to use or the resin conversion kits.

I was told by the group I joined that the ML3 biomancy praetor is as scary as most primarchs in combat, should I drop him? Or maybe deepstrike him in a combined unit of the 10 terminators? Maybe that would survive better than the khenatai with the 2+/4++. I would drop Ahriman, but to have the divination veteran squads with rerolling snipers I have to have a Corvidae warlord due to legion rules on cult arcana.

I thought the list was pretty fluffy as it stands, several small elite units all with psychic powers. Its as good as I can get without putting another $300 immediately into the force.
>>53873697
Sorry is there a better way to show what all upgrades he takes? He buys a ton as 1ksons, is it better to not show any and just say 'ML3 biomancy beatstick'?

>>53875337
Any new stuff include, any old stuff don't and do it like
>wargear
Chaplain consul, dual lightning claws
Rather than
>centurion
>chaplain
>lightning claw x2

>>53875312
I'm talking about the resin line. I also don't like how squat the plastic MkIVs are. I don't know why they didn't use the good proportions of the Deathwatch and Rubric models.

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>>53875271
I don't think we'll getting a whole lot of new Cadians, with Cadia being gone and all. Especially with Cadia being gone for a 100 years in current GW canon.
>they fucked up Armageddon too
So what now? They really want FW to sell more Kriegers I think.

>>53875337
>Sorry is there a better way to show what all upgrades he takes? He buys a ton as 1ksons, is it better to not show any and just say 'ML3 biomancy beatstick'?
Just right it in one line like >>53875371 said
>master-crafted force sword
More expensive and worse than a paragon blade?

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>>53867672
I kinda feel for Perty. He had nothing, he grew up believing in democracy and solving things by diplomacy, only to find out he was created to be a warlord and couldn't be anything else.

So he accepts that and goes off to end wars as rapidly as possible, at great cost to his own men. It's his 'thing'. His only 'thing'. He ends sieges.

Then fucking Dorn, golden boy, apple of the Emprah's eye and all-round arse-licking piss-streak comes along and basically goes 'lewl Iron Warriors can't even siege properly'.

I'd be salty too.

>>53875410
maybe he shouldn't have started off his command by executing 1/10th of his legion.

>>53875387
>cadians were well known for being god damn everywhere
>Cadia blows up
>SERIOSULY GUYS THIS IS THE END EVEN CREED DIED
>implying they aren't having massive orgies right now which will summon slasnesh across the imperium

>>53871722
I read a lot of books, a little more specific

>>53875440
They'd just needlessly protracted a war and gotten a huge chunk of the legion killed, as well as devastating the planet, purely for their own pride.

Perturabo was the only Primarch to treat Astartes as the Emperor did; as disposable tools of conquest. They were all scheduled to be Thunder Warrior'd at the end of the Great Crusade anyway.

>>53875448
Cadians are a dying breed though. They are basically space hobos now. Regiments on deployment can't replace their losses without a homeworld to draw from. In due time the "Cadian" in their Regiments names will only be a grim reminder while the actual Regiments will be made up of whomever the Munitorum could get their hands on.

>>53875440
>people ignore the WE getting nailed
>people ignore lorgar making the imperial heralds all about faith
>people ignore guilliman making his own empire and then keeping it and taking marines away from the crusade to do this
>people ignore the lion sending half the legion to garrison caliban and thus losing to the NL of all legions
>people still fixate on pertuabo applying his culture

>>53875495
This their command was useless, then look how successful they were at fighting the African American Supreme Court of justice

>>53875410
>He had nothing
He had at least one planet, a 10km flagship filled with servants who had no purpose in life other than to serve him and 150,000 supersoldiers who would drag themselves across broken glass, flat on their fronts with their flies unzipped if he asked.
No Primarch "had nothing".

>>53874885
That's just what this general does in between black books. Wait until Angelus comes out and we have 8-9 threads in a day.

>>53875476
BRB.

>>53875448
I doubt Cadian regiments are self-perpetuating otherwise there'd be nothing Cadians in the Imperium.

Cadia was the main source of Cadians, female soldiers in line regiments aren't going to be producing tens of kids each to pick up the shortfall.

If they took a good number of Cadian regiments and settled them on a new world where they could marry off and pop out kids, sure, their population might recover, but as it is, it looks like they probably just shunted them straight into the 100 year Indominitus Crusade. Cadians are likely an endangered species now.

>>53875559
Angron didn't even have a knot to remember his brothers by

>>53875526
>African American Supreme Court of justice

wat

>>53875337
>Can I just say that my tartare terminators are sekhmet?
Yes, until people you play with get annoyed or you feel too much shame. A sekhmet is just a terminator with a force weapon. You don't have to get the FW models or 40K Rubrics. Look at their wargear rules and see if you can make some from your collection.
There's nothing really wrong with your list, it's just not my way of playing, so don't worry about it.
I think a Biomancer (who can indeed be deadly if rolled well) with Blades is an expensive and fragile deathstar compared to the types of ones you will see the enemy field. The Blades and the Praetor can both delete entire units by themselves, so doubling them up is just making your elite assault unit into meatshields.
I say play with your list and see how you feel. You might want to replace the Blades with a lower points cost squad at some point for your Biomancer to lead, or upgrade the Biomancer to Termie armour and put him with a Sekhmet squad. Your list is fine.

>>53875559
>Engineered to transhuman levels to be rulers and leaders
>Hurrr he should have just been happy being better than a burger flipper!

kys

>>53875495
>They were all scheduled to be Thunder Warrior'd at the end of the Great Crusade anyway.
the likes of the Iron Warriors, Death Guard, Night Lords and World Eaters perhaps, but not Legions like the Ultramarines or Blood Angels, their Primarchs made sure their Warriors had a purpose and ability beyond war.

to paraphrase Roboute
"You are the best at war because you are the best at everything, one day the crusade will be over and you will use your talents for the good of humanity" or something along that line.

It was the short sightedness and folly of many Primarchs that made them dread Peace. They worried what would become of them after the Crusade, but didn't realize that their very own actions made them unfit for peace.

>>53875500
>>people ignore the WE getting nailed
The Emp sent Russ to stop it, Russ failed
>>people ignore lorgar making the imperial heralds all about faith
the Emp sent the UMs to stop it, it kinda worked but not as intended.
>>people ignore guilliman making his own empire and then keeping it and taking marines away from the crusade to do this
The 500 Worlds of Ultrama were a thing even before Guilliman joined the Crusade, and he was so effective at recruiting new Legionaires, he had by far the largest Legion BECAUSE he chose to draw manpower from a large amount of worlds.
>>people ignore the lion sending half the legion to garrison caliban and thus losing to the NL of all legions
the Lion sent a couple hundred Veterans to train recruits, Luther stopped sending them to the Expedition and instead hogged them for rebellion.
>>people still fixate on pertuabo applying his culture
As is proper, he literally put 1/10th of his legion to death because in his opinion they weren't trying hard enough. No wonder everybody hated that retard.

>>53875648
You're assuming the Emperor wouldn't just order the Ultramarines to be either euthanised or sent into the webway as guards and Roboute and his statesmen wouldn't be able to do shit about it.

>Emperor wanted humans to rule for themselves and replaced the War Council with the Council of Terra, sidelining Astartes and the Primarchs from ruling the civilian Imperium
>Guilliman thinks he can still install his legionaires as politicians and civic leaders wherever he likes

Roboute was as deluded as any other primarch you care to mention, only he was deluded by a fantasy future of plush offices and ordering people around like clockwork automations setting his ordered vision of society into place.

>>53875648
Primarchs were scheduled for deletion too.

The Big E wasn't creating a galaxy to be ruled over by superhumans.

Guilliman wanted his sons to become immortal statesmen and rulers of a 'perfect' empire, because he was a sentimental dolt when it came to his sons, coupled in his belief that a perfect state could exist. The Emperor just wanted to cut Chaos off from the material world, nothing else, Taranis accepted his role as an expendable tool but the Primarch's superhuman egos wouldn't allow it.

>>53875500
>people ignore the WE getting nailed
No they don't. Everyone considers them violent retards.

>people ignore lorgar making the imperial heralds all about faith
Lorgar gets shit on in this general nonstop.

>people ignore guilliman making his own empire and then keeping it and taking marines away from the crusade to do this
He brought more planets to compliance than any other legion and they were notoriously stable. He was objectively executing the crusade correctly.

>people ignore the lion sending half the legion to garrison caliban and thus losing to the NL of all legions
Lion is constantly criticized in this general. Even with only half his forces he still skullfucked the Night Lords and ended them as a legion.

>people still fixate on pertuabo applying his culture
>muh culture
Like >>53875495 said the decimation may have been justified but he was still a butthurt little asshole. He butchered worlds and murdered his own officers when he didn't get his way.

>>53875648
>Emperor specifically starts replacing the Primarchs and legionaries with humans as the rulers of humanity
>Is very clear that astartes were never meant to be the rulers of humanity, or replace it.
>Girlyman still thinks he'd be fine with him appointing his hundreds of thousands of legionaries to rule over their own planets forever and ever after the crusade

Guilliman was in deniel.

>>53875749
>The Emp sent Russ to stop it
Russ went of his own accord, that's why Angron told him to fuck off.

>>53875762
>Roboute was as deluded as any other primarch you care to mention
Ferrus.
>WeWereNotMadeForRest.jpg
Dorn.
>LookToThoseWhoComeAfterUs.jpg
Possibly Khan.
>>53875777
>Primarchs were scheduled for deletion too.
We don't know this for certain, we don't even know he would have killed the marines for certain.

>>53875749
>Russ failed

Only because he didn't have a mandate to execute Angron.

>>53875762
>>53875777
>>53875823
You assume he planned to get rid of all Astartes and Primarchs when that is objectively false, he wanted to cut the irredeemable ones.

you can certainly provide quotes or sources of the opposite being true? Something that isn't Traitor Propaganda out of Erebus lying mouth.

>>53875604
Black judges

>>53875839
Sure, we don't know for certain, but his treatment of the Thunder Warriors, coupled with him already sidelining them doesn't speak much in support of the idea that he was going to keep these unstoppable demi-gods and a million-strong army of genetically engineered killers sitting around once all the xenos were dead/humans conquered.

It's not like they'd even have been needed as a peacekeeping force if his plan had succeeded, human armies weren't helpless, they just couldn't conquer at the relentless pace of the astartes, which was needed due to the Emprah's tight schedule for punching Chaos in the dick.

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>>53875929
fukkin kek

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>>53875923
>H...he..he wouldn't have exterminated MY legion, just the naughty ones ;__;

Sure thing bro.

t. Arik Taranis

>>53875979
True, but on the other hand the warriors were barely stable prototype marines.

>>53875929
I kinda liked that fight, although it was fairly obvious it was refluffed IW vs. DarkMech, good to see how FW deal with all the AI and wierd Xenos is to make all their shit directly analogous to Mechanicum or something. Black Judges, Tempest Gallery boops, the SW Silica Animus, etcetera.

>>53875749
>emp semt
Because they were doing badly in the crusade, emps was there long enough to see what made the nails tick to stop it spreading
>he already had an empire
Still not fair and those recruits should have gone to a variety of legions
>not a tenth
IW gene seed had best acceptance rates so there would be weaklings among them

>>53876000
Pretty much this. The Emperor isn't really one for half measures. I doubt he'd want to leave a bunch of highly dangerous tools sitting around after he was done with them.

>>53876065
>Still not fair and those recruits should have gone to a variety of legions
It isn't Guilliman's fault everyone else decided to only recruit from the planet they grew up on.

>>53875809
>lorgar gets shat on
No that's Erebus, lorgar is largely ignored
>lion
Find me the last post mentioning the line it will be longer than a month ago
>>53876050
>all dreadnought armies
>dark mech
Really activates the almonds

>>53875979
the Thunder Warriors were a stopgap solution until he had Terra conquered, they were never meant to last and had massive stability issues.

The Astartes were created immortal intentionally.

And he wasn't sidelining Astartes as much as he was replacing the Martial Law with a more regular form of Government. Sure Horus used that to rouse up his misfit brothers, but there wasn't going to be another culling. And who was going to do that anywhay? He used the Astartes to cull the TWs, he would have to build an army of even greater Superhumans to exterminate all the remaining Astartes, creating another problem for the future.

There was an obvious option of keeping the functional Legions around, while disposing of the uncontrollable ones.

>>53876065
>Still not fair and those recruits should have gone to a variety of legions
fucking what? Not Roboutes fault the other Primarchs were using their Astartes as Cannon Fodder, or refused to recruit off their own homeworlds like Russ. Roboute built the most effective model for replacing combat losses and bolstering Legion numbers, so he had the far largest Legion, he had many Legionaires stationed on many worlds BECAUSE he could afford to send them on Garrison duty. He still had the largest fighting force in the Galaxy available, not to mention that Ultramar provided the greatest portion of Mortal Forces to the War Effort on top of that.

>>53876106
Iron warriors didn't
Word bearers didn't
World waters didn't
Raven guard might have
White scars will in Angelus

>>53876139
Didn't they have a bunch of Revenant Tech-thralls and weird weapons too? Sounds more Cybernetica to me.

>>53876165
Probably been ages since I read it, a shit tonne of dreads and turrets is what I loved about it so what I remembered

>>53876164
>Iron warriors didn't
Iron Warriors were so busy leaving smoking ruinss they didn't have time to build up any infrastructure.
>Word bearers didn't
Word Bearers had a reasonably large Legion, second only to the Ultramarines.
>World waters didn't
they also had some of the highest, if not the highest combat losses of any legion.

>>53876140
>had massive stability issues

And the Primarchs/Astartes didn't?

I think the odd TW going developing PTSD or dropping dead from a heart attack are relatively minor flaws by comparison...

>>53876140
>Roboute built the most effective model for replacing combat losses and bolstering Legion numbers

And, you know, got handed the legions of the two lost Primarchs.

>>53876237
the Primarchs and Astartes were far more refined than the TWs.

They were never meant to see service outside Terra.

>>53876262
>And, you know, got handed the legions of the two lost Primarchs.
um, no?

>>53876297
>primarchs disappear
>suddenly guilliman bolsters
I hope in Horus' dying moments he sees everything the emperor mind wiped and when he should be pure, sneers at the emperor as his body is turn asunder

>>53876262
>>53876297
Maybe.

>>53876140
>He used the Astartes to cull the TWs, he would have to build an army of even greater Superhumans to exterminate all the remaining Astartes, creating another problem for the future.
Heh.
>how about we release some snakes to deal with the rat problem
>but then what about the snakes?
>we can let a bunch of mongooses loose
>great idea, then we can get some jackals to deal with them
>and then leopards to eat the jackals
>this plan is perfect!

>>53872998
Terminators beat them through attrition. And vindicators.

>>53876353
>>and then leopards to eat the jackals
>>this plan is perfect!
You forget that the winter comes and the leopards simply freeze to death.

>>53876388
They're snow leopards.

>>53876329
It's explained in a lot of material that the 13th grew rapidly even before Guilliman was found due to them keeping their Combat losses low,(hard to believe, I know, but not charging blindly into gunfire and exchanging artillery barrages does wonders to your survival rates) and Guilliman drawing on a massive network of manpower and infrastructure to boost his legions size.

The entire conspiracy is based around two salty Word Bearers talking shit. Anything coming out of a Word Bearers mouth is to be disregarded as bullshit by default.

>>53876403
Dammit, we'll have to wait another 6 months for the summer.

I can't be fucked quote-tagging people as y'all are arguing too fast, but the question of the redundancy of the legions has been hanging over the series since the first book. They don't know what will happen to them when the war ends, and the uncertainty is presented as an existential threat they feel.
And let's not forget marines being supplanted by humans and his authority in civil matters being superseded was one of the reasons Horus went fucking traitor.
Just saying Roboute would automatically be excluded from any of the possibilities presented in the fucking text because reasons is an unwise ground to make a claim on. Everything about that, from both sides, is shaky af.

>>53876428
But weren't they drawn from recently conquered and tribal nations

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>>53876428
>It's the 'Only Ultramarines use tactic' meme

>>53876474
Ultramar isn't recently conquered or tribal.

>Nobody's heard shit from the Ultrafags for months
>Age of Guilliman hits
>They crawl out of the calth underground network and start ejaculating about how THE BEST they are

What a curious turn of events

>>53876497
Ultramarines aren't the only ones to usse tactic, but they certainly use more tactics than the War Hounds or Space Wolves did. They also didn't stick to dogmatic ideas like the Death Guard or Iron Warriors, also Imperial Fists.

But being strategical and tactical flexible and prepared is the UMs whole shtick. They are good at accomplishing their tasks at peak efficiency.

>>53876524
>Worst Bearer is mad his shit Legion was marked for waste disposal

>>53876586
>Providing a Practical and implying a Theoretical
>Word Bearer

Did you leave your book that tells you exactly how to think in any given situation at home m8?

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>>53876524
there is a difference between "ejaculating about how THE BEST they are" and not letting 1d4chins memes be paraded as factual truths and people venting their hateboners for the smurfs. They suffered enough in the Heresy, there is no need to make them look worse than they are, while shitstains like Kurze and Perturabo get a free pass because they are fookin awesome?

>>53876499
No the pre primarchs UM

>>53876639
>while shitstains like Kurze and Perturabo get a free pass because they are fookin awesome?
>/hhg/
>give a free pass
>to fucking perty and kurze
YU WAI MAT?

>>53876639
Nobody gets a free pass. Which, I believe, is exactly the reason UMs sperging out over their dudes being criticised gets called out. Behaving like your guys and only your guys shit michelin star blueberry pies is ridiculous, especially in this setting with all the info, and even hypocritical if one is weird enough to take the values of your favourite legion as your own.

Pretty much all the other legions get fucked up the ass by people in here and their fans banter back, even the fucking NL and WB can josh with the best of em, the TS and the Yiffs get accused of being the worst cunts in existence but roll with it, but the UMs have been on radio silence for ages and *now* they get lippy and assblasted, because people are given them the same shit?
At the launch of 8th, with all the cool new shit in their colours and their primarch walking around being optimus prime? That's fucking laaaaaaaame.

UM dudes should read that Guy Haley book in which Papa Smurf realises he's Punished Guilliman, it's pretty 'realistically' balanced on He Did Nufffin Rong and he's a knowing massive hypocrite who has to be a dick for the good of everyone.
Which btw is better characterisation than Space Augustus But Actually Perfect that people seem to want.

>>53876690
how many times do you see either of them criticised in a ratio to lets say Guilliman and the Emperor?

>>53876794
nigga, all the fucking time

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>>53876140
>‘For glory,’ the Emperor replied. ‘To honour the creatures that call themselves my sons. My necessary tools. They feed on glory as if it were a palpable sustenance. Their own glory, of course, no different from the kings and emperors of old. It scarcely crosses their mind that glory matters nothing to me. I could have had a planet’s worth of glory any time I wished it when I walked in the species’ shadow throughout prehistory.

>The Emperor unlocked the sealed vambraces of His hazard suit, then removed the surgical mask that had covered His face until now. ‘It is not my son, Arkhan. None of them are. They are warlords, generals, tools bred to serve a purpose. Just as the Legions were bred to serve a purpose.’

Both the Primarchs and Astartes were never anything but tools to the Emperor, anymore than the Thunder Warriors. Their extended lifespans were a neccesary addition over the Thunder Warriors, given the potentially centuries-long war they'd be required to engage in, but not an indication of something that would never achieve obsolecence.

Still not a reason to abandon your oaths of loyalty and fuck the entire species in favour of a bunch of sentient warp storms, but still.

>>53876794
Every thread.
>>53876813
Shoo shoo spooky ADB, don't you have a book where Abbadon totally takes on every primarch at once because they're all allergic to his SUPER WHY-DIDN'T-DADDY-LOVE-ME SPECHAL SWORD to be writing?

>>53876690
basically people can't handle the fact that every primarch was flawed in some way and that their favourite primarch wasn't the only sane one.

I'm a DA fag and while DA were the most effective legion pre-Rangdan the Lion was a total tard when it came to anything that wasn't war, strategy or tactics.

>>53875600
>The Emperor didn't let Angron take the knot
>This enrages the Angronius

>>53875648
>but not Legions like the Ultramarines or Blood Angels, their Primarchs made sure their Warriors had a purpose and ability beyond war.
In the end a civil war was inevitable. Emps just figured it'd be against the Primarchs who thought they could be men. And Mortarion.

>>53876869
>Got nothing to argue with
>Attack the author

Classic loyalist.

>>53876767
>but the UMs have been on radio silence for ages and *now* they get lippy and assblasted, because people are given them the same shit?
where is anyone getting lippy and assblasted "now"? It's been a simple discussion of what would happen to the astartes and primarchs with the argument appearing that the UMs would possibly not be culled due to them being rather tame compared to the 12th. That developed into an argument about how the 13th grew so rapidly which is now turning into a meta discussion about which legion and primarch gets the most shit on here.

I think it is a case of peoples fears and frustrations being projected on the good'ol matt wardian boogeyman of the ultrasmurfs.

>>53875809
>Lion is constantly criticized in this general.
These things happen when you haven't gotten your time in the FW light and your HH books are all complete shit.

Just remember, they can't catch you breaking Nikea if you kill them.

>>53876965
>your HH books are all complete shit.
Why did you think they were ba,? I quite liked them. We knew the Lion was a retard going in so it's not like that was a huge revelation.

>>53877005
him being a retard wasn't. him being a traitorous retard was

>>53876000
>Be Dark Angel
>Other marines be talking
>"The Emperor would never abandon his warriors"
>"We are the Emperor's chosen warriors"
>"Astartes will never go to war with Astartes"
>Remember when we [REDACTED SECTION]
>Laugh internally

>>53877061
Frankly, in the HH series at the moment, the Space Wolves seem to have more [REDACTED SECTION] than anyone else now, with the possible exception of whatever black ops shit the Emprah had the Alpha Legion doing before Alpharius Omegon was found..

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>>53876164
>World waters
See what you did there.

>>53877102
I would expect nothing less from the Emperor's Chosen Executioners.

>>53876329
Go away, ADB. We already know you like Chaos sleeping with your mom.

>>53875410
>Then fucking Dorn, golden boy, apple of the Emprah's eye and all-round arse-licking piss-streak comes along and basically goes 'lewl Iron Warriors can't even siege properly'.
Even if I had everything I'd be salty if Dorn, known for being the only fucking individual in his whole Legion who has fortifying rules, said he can end sieges better than me

what size bases do marine use in 30k? iv been using horus heresy models for 40k because i prefer the way they looks but they are on 32mm, does HH only use 25mm for marines?

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>>53875497
>Cadians are a dying breed
I'm aware a single Imperial Navy ship can resettle a whole country by simply unloading its excess crew, born from the indentured servants that work in it.
Do guardsmen get a similar deal? I remember reading that Cadia has fought and resettled so many worlds they're the new Imperial standard.
Even if a regiment is named #827 Backwaterers, they still dress and speak like Cadians, the only thing they lack is the glowy violet eyes.
Srsly why do we never see pictures of guardsmen with glowing purple irises?

>>53877005
Aside from the fact that Gav decided to go masturbate his shitty 40k plotline into the HH at the expense of the already running DA plotline?

The were all boring books with plenty of people being stupid to move the plot along.

>>53877228
>iv been using horus heresy models for 40k ... but they are on 32mm,
>does HH only use 25mm for marines?
Does your brain even understand what you're asking?

>>53877313
They don't glow, they're just purple. And how many pics of guardsmen can you make out their eyes, they're usually distant so you can show the maximum number of them being slaughtered.

>>53877339
im asking if people use 32mm for marines in 30k u mongoloid

>>53875565
Yes, but by then 8th will have sucked the 30k community dry, and we have no guarantee that we'll even get Angelus Scans. Has there been hide nor hair of the Scananon at any point recently?

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>>53875929
This was a clever joke.

>>53877403
>Has there been hide nor hair of the Scananon at any point recently?
I think He mentioned how He hardly ever comes here anymore because of how shit we are.

>>53877316
I tried reading Angels of Caliban but had to drop it after the absolute turbocringe
>WE HAVE COME!
>WE ARE DEATH!
>WE HAVE COME!
>WE ARE DEATH!
>WE HAVE COME!
>WE ARE DEATH!
>WE HAVE COME!
>WE ARE DEATH!
part with the Dreadwing. It was so fucking tryhard.

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>>53876207
>Iron Warriors were so busy leaving smoking ruinss they didn't have time to build up any infrastructure.
Silly Anon, the infrastructure is at home, in the Metarara cluster where Olympia is located. And as an IW, I do numbers, so, considering a globular cluster is about 1/150 of the whole galaxy, Metarara must be an open cluster, which average a few hundred stars on a 30 light year area. Olympia is also host of the Ring of Iron, an orbital manufactoria dedicated to build the legion's ships, it's not Mars' or Saturn's, but how many legions can say they have one of those things? And the Rock of Judgement had lots of tech secrets. On threads past we ran the numbers and agreed 21st century India's and Chyna's children would be more than enough to make 100000 Fists, so why would the easy IW geneseed require more? Then add the Grabiya process and you have a fully grown Legionnary in a year.
Ultramar would be an open cluster as well, just a bigger one.

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>>53876545
>Tfw this post is so full of misconceptions and memes, and I want to quote from like 4 books but I'm reduced to phoneposting.
Status of almonds: activated.

>>53875410
Dorn had one singular purpose in life and it turned his mind into a fucking fortress. He had sever wall autism. If he called the IWs walls weak I believe him.

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>>53877967
>

>>53877908
Not an argument

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>>53877967
>Dorn's auric walls can reroll ones for cover, and gives his unit Furious Charge and Crusader
>Vhalen's forts get +1 AV and can order a squad to behave as if they had ammo stores by sheer force of cursewords
Interesting siege rules, eh?

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Why do we have the same two people constantly shitting on the Custodes players?

Is it like this every time a new army or unit comes out? It goes beyond banter when all that keeps popping up are attacks

>>53878067
Seems one is designed to siege short term and the other doesn't know when to leave.

>>53878030
Of course it's not an argument you dumb. I specifically mentioned how and why I wasn't able to make arguments.

>>53878069
Cuckstodes are OP Cheese apparently.

>>53878081
I'm saying Dorn is the only Imperial fist with siege rules, and they're offensive.

>>53878104
I'm a Custode player that never posts but instead lurks. It's just the same two weird buttblasted guys that give others shit for posting their stuff, but don't post anything in return. I know this is /hhg/ but those guys are saltier than Lorgar and Ahriman rolled into one

>>53878069
>constantly shitting on the Custodes players
Doesn't happen. Are you the guy in the last thread who got triggered when "guy with 91 Custodes here" got teased a little?

>>53878127
I'm being funny; you're observation is very valid

>>53877967
>If he called the IWs walls weak I believe him.
>wat is Iron Cage

>>53878146
Who?

Saying is doesn't happen is weird; it'll pop up unprompted and they'll just got back and forth until people listen to them. It just seems weird when people think it's teasing when it's very clearly just bitterness and mockery for someone loving their models.

Like hats off to the Custodanon for his collection; I wouldn't do it but I respect it.

>>53878139
I've seen hate for the Custodes on here from the moment their rules came out. They're basically the 5E Grey Knights of the Horus heresy.

>>53878159
Dorn w-won the Iron Cage fair and square because the Iron Warriors had to flee! The fact that the Imperial Fists were dying and flopping around in the mud with no ammo until the Ultramarines bailed them out had nothing to do with it! PERTURABOFAGS BTFO WE ARE THE MASTER SIEGERS! WE WON 1V1!

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>>53878159
Dorn may know all about regular walls, but an iron cage would be more like a bollard wall
:^)

>>53878069
You could easily ask why the same 3 custodes players want to be special and above criticism. But I don't really mean that. i guess I will try and answer seriously but it seems a bit like babby's first 4chan lesson, so sorry if patronising.

We just got done talking about how every faction is up for getting the piss ripped out of it. Custodes are new, they're not immune. Unless you're new to the thread, you know we can be quite harsh.

That said, you shouldn't take any of it seriously. You know where you are. People taking the piss out of stuff here are either doing it to make other people laugh or because they sense weakness and know it will upset people, which is entertaining to them.

So, if people rag on you for wanting to be le waffle man, rag on them back or ignore it. If they don't get a rise out of you and no-one else keks, they'll stop and find something new to do.

I assume you are okay with it when it isn't your faction being ripped on after all.

Additionally if you feel the need to 'be' someone on here and have a name like le waffle man, I would advise against advertising it strongly. Just let it be a thing, don't force it.
91 Custodes man is actually pretty chill with being made fun of, i thought, for example.
Like, why let what randos say online bother you? Ignore or join in. Complaining just encourages them because they know they've got to you.

>>53875979
He had fucking legion sized condos under the palace that "felt" like home to every marine that entered the place.

>>53878218
Wasn't it actually proven the IF were winning and the IW knew it? Dorn may be a stubborn idiot but his purposeful meat grinder worked.

The Ultramarines showing up was like dropping the bombs on Japan; it wasn't even remotely necessary since victory was inevitable, but it certainly expedited the process.

>>53878139
>don't post anything in return
this is funny to me

>>53878225
>bollard wall

You mean a fence?

>>53878236
I don't browse here often. I'm usually just here for the content and memes, so this was actually oddly enlightening; thank you.

>>53878181
>bitterness
So what you're saying is that the guy making fun of you is an Iron Warriors player.

>>53878299
Is it possible to hybridize IWand WB? That would be more fitting

>>53878267
>The IF were winning
>Winning means running out of ammo, using the armoured corpses of your brothers as cover and resorting to blade combat
>The IW just left, unpursued, while the UM had to save the IFs after their fleet had been boarded and attacked by nuke silos, which were also blown up and triggered a nuclear winter that prevented air support and communications
>Winning
You're right, this sounds like the usual Imperial victory in those Imperial Armour books.

>>53878267
>this is what Imperial Fists believe
Literally all of that post is headcanon. Dorn was trapped with no ammo and only a fraction of his Warriors left alive. Nobody knows why the Iron Warriors didn't finish them off when they had the opportunity but there's two possible theories stated
>that Perturabo was enjoying seeing the Fists and their Primarch suffer too much to end it prematurely
>the Iron Warriors didn't have the will to take the casualties required to kill them all

The first sounds like Pert and the second goes against the entire ethos of the legion. If Iron Warriors know anything it's that sacrifice is often necessary to achieve goals.

The Imperial Fists were defeated and running on empty when the Ultras showed up.

>>53878253
Yeah and he threw their egos a massive party where he bulldozed a continent to create a parade ground, before leaving them to start the important stuff too. He specifically states this was entirely for their benefit, just to keep them fighting and happy.

The guy is the supreme ruler of a million worlds, you think building 18 condos on Terra represents a supreme commitment to them?

Weird question, but what exactly stops a Primarch from taking a bolter round to the dome and killing them?

>>53878001
>>53878159
I'm sorry but didn't he have the break the fortress open to find out it was a trap? Or did they just vox that to everyone half way through the first wall?

Honestly it wouldn't have changed anything, he was hell bent on pain glovong his dudes.

>>53878267
>the IF were winning

Yeah, after brutal fighting for weeks, they managed to push the Iron Warriors back into the central keep, then successfully stormed it to deliver the final blow.

Then they discovered it wasn't a central keep, just an open killing ground covered by inwards facing weapons emplacements, Perturabo wasn't there, and there was a couple of hundred Havocs pointing a plethora of heavy weaponry at them when they kicked in the doors.

>>53878422
Primarch skulls are said to be tougher than terminator helmets. Pre-daemon Fulgrim takes a specially made armourpiercing sniper flechette in his temple and survives.

>>53878067
IF weren't siege specialist though.

They just had guts tough enough to storm fortresses.

>>53878461
>I'm sorry but didn't he have the break the fortress open to find out it was a trap?
That was literally Perturabo's plan. The Iron Warriors deliberately fell back to lure the Fists into prearranged killrooms.

>>53878469
The mental image of 500 Lascannon Havocs just all firing at once is incredibly amusing

>>53878461
Dorn reached what he assumed what the heart of the fortress. It wasn't, it was just another prepared killing ground. Not only did he sacrifice the bulk of his legion to reach there, it turns out he hadn't even correctly identified the Iron Warrior's command centre prior to launching his attack.

That's some pretty shitty sieging.

>>53878267
It depends on who's telling the tale.

IF say they had the zeal and the IWs wouldn't commit because they'd lose to much. Which means a lot because the IWs don't fucking care about loses.

IWs say they were fuxking around with Dorn.

As an IF fag I'm leaning towards the later.

>still no plastic mk2

>>53878419
Yes

There will always be a reason to keep super doods around.

>>53878419
>A mitarized fortress-resort for marines, with beach chairs the size of cars, a fortified water-park, moonscape biking grounds and yoga halls with shot-and-shell ambient music.
Fund it. Plz fund it.

>>53878507
So you're telling me Dorn got through Perts walls?

>>53878560
I could imagine with it being immediately post-Terra that the IW weren't willing to commit to potential insane losses anymore after the HH really drained them. I think the IW were seriously fucking with the IF, but when push came to shove they didn't want to lose even more than they already had.

>>53878613
I honestly hope it turns out to be a stalemate. I don't want an obvious winner of the Iron Cage, both sides got what they wanted.

IWs pissed on IFs corpses. Rogal dragged his proud legion through the shit so they'd get humbled and break up into chapters.

So, IW and IF fags, what are you both expecting when BL inevitably rectons the Iron Cage when they write it for the Scouring Series?

Hard mode: John French is writing it.

>>53878611
The outer decoy defenses, yes. Dorn got cut to pieces when his forces encountered the actual defensive emplacements.

>>53878613
Regardless, it's absurd to say the Imperial Fists were winning. They were clearly all but defeated until Rob saved their asses.

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>>53878491
That was what the IWs did, Anon. Dorn even critizices Perturabo's storming of fortresses.
IFs and IWs shouldn't fight. They should make combined Siege regiments to capture fortresses and rebuild them in the name of the Imperium.
Combined Siege armies, Kalkator & Magneric or Dantioch&Polux style would be invincible.
Polux teleporting forward alongside Tyrant Terminators, Vhalen breaking the assaults on the walls and directing heavy weapons fire, BS5 Bolters and precision artillery barrages.

>>53878677
>John French is writing it.
Things are looking bleak for the Imperial Fists until the Ultramarines show up and drive away the Iron Warriors. Perturabo is feeling smug until he rereads the data and realizes Dorn would have won eventually even without any help. Then he gets angry and murders his closest subordinate.

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>>53878613
>Tfw the Iron Warrior civil war lasted 17 times more than the whole heresy, probably because everyone moved at siege speed.

>>53878710
IF didn't chill on artillery pieces for months and send in waves of johns to deplete ammo stores.

They teleported in and tore shit up with their cheap as piss termies.

I'm not arguing with your statement about them suppose to be working in tandem, IFxIW is why I play. Just saying IF weren't siege marines.

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>>53878677
>Hard mode: John French is writing it.
REEEEEEsus Christ no! Someone must stop his sinful hand.

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>>53878786
>Just saying IF weren't siege marines.
I say the same, but people still think the IFs are the defensive siege legion for some reason.
This be a siegery tread, with siege pics. Makes me happy.
Post your legion's memey approach to war.

>>53878788
He's taking over writing the HH Black Books now that Bligh is dead.

>>53878832
>I say the same, but people still think the IFs are the defensive siege legion for some reason.
Because the VIIth was chosen to fortify Terra against invasion and Dorn can't stop talking about walls. It's not some big mystery.

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>Ka'Bandha got Sanguinius
What now

>>53878992
The Blood Angels fall to Khorne, the World Eaters go rogue, insert retarded BL plot twists here and everything turns out the same.

>>53878992
Sang becomes new Warmaster after a big battle between Horus and Sang. Everything else is the same.

>>53879021
>Angron becomes the big damn hero of the Imperium
>Ten thousand years later, fangirls celebrate how fat and autistic they thought he was
...never mind, I don't like this timeline.

>>53877594
First time I listened to the audio book and thought they were blaring that shit over the vox and out of massive boomboxes on the hull of their phosphex spewing Achilles-Alphas. A few thousand superhuman lungs screaming that at you from the other side of the planet sounds real spooky.

Then I read the book and found out it wasn't as badass. Real shame, only insight we have to dreadwing and it was try-hard.

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>>53879435
Should've left the being spooky to the spooky marines.

>>53875408
A ML3 biomacy praetor with a force sword is no joke. If force and his buff powers gets off, it becomes obscene. Definitely better than the ID on 6's the paragon blade gives you. Plus he gets an additional attack because it isn't a specialist weapon.

>>53879488
I thought M31 Night Lords had silver trim.

>>53878001
>Am one of those three posters
>It's been 4 years since then
>And it's still being posted
I just want you all to know, that I hate you all at least as much as I did 4 years ago.

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>>53880364
The flesh is weak, but the shitposting endures :^)

ded game ded thread

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>>53882183
pls

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Anyone playing Blackshields? Whats your list like? What type of Wrought do you take?

>>53880686
Could I get a translation? I don't speak tau.

>>53882682
"For the Greater Good."

>>53882682
Something about avoiding painting your models.

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>>53878832
>Siegery thread
Boop yes, two in a row. Posting accurate Iron Cage hololith ;)

Is there an approved model for Ordo Reductor artillery, or do I just modify Basilisks or strap Knight thermal cannon onto the front of a Vindicator or something?

>>53878422
nothing, though the material is rather inconsistent on that part,
in Unremembered Empire Guilly is aware that a single bolt to his head would end him, while in Betrayer he takes Lorgars Mace straight to the face.

Then in the same book you have Lorgar being blasted twice by a Warhounds Plasma Cannon and being rather fine, while Vulkan(kind of) dies from Shuriken Pistols to his head.

>>53878832
>but people still think the IFs are the defensive siege legion for some reason.
It's not all they do, but they enjoy it more than nearly any other legion.

>>53872499
>only the chest and legs
Which is a fair portion of the model.

>>53876262
Nothing more than a rumour. Could be true, could just be Word Bearer saltiness. Going by ADB's reaction to the arguments it created on Warseer a few years ago, I'm inclined to believe the latter.

>>53880192
The official FW trim for NLs is some vague brownish-silver tone, between bronze and silver. I prefer gold though.

>>53883215
Lorgar had a kine shield

>>53877228
FW was a little slower to switch from 25mm to 32mm bases, but they made the switch along with GW.

>>53877313
>I'm aware a single Imperial Navy ship can resettle a whole country by simply unloading its excess crew, born from the indentured servants that work in it.
Not really. They have crews of 20-30,000, small town size.

And yes, Cadians have been everywhere and their retirees have settled a lot of planets, but their pattern is the standard because they teach it, not because they've bred that much. It's their equipment (including uniform), organizational method, and doctrines that have spread.

Also, the original violet-eyed Cadians were wiped out so that the Word Bearers wouldn't leave a trail.

Guys, what color scheme should I do for Blackshields? Just making them black or grey is getting too close to other legions, which is boring.
Lore-wise I want them to be the work of a Magos Biologis that is churning out a lot of dudes on the quick to bolster loyalist forces.

>>53883995
>Also, the original violet-eyed Cadians were wiped out so that the Word Bearers wouldn't leave a trail
Yes, but simply by living so close to the EoT the genome gets mutated in such a manner that you get violet eyes

What sort of list's do da players here run?

>>53880192
it used to be gold but i think they changed it to silver recently to help differentiate them from UMs more

>>53884036
Why not have them use your Mechanicum colours?

>>53884150
Black and orange? Not sure that'd look good...

Speaking of Blackshields, how to gear a Reaver Lord, preferrably non-terminator? Cheap and cheerful or whole hog?

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All three Caladius are finally done; the first two were mostly done, just not based until now. Just waiting on the Annihilator turrets

>>53884541
Those look absolutely great mate. Good job!

>>53884316
If it looks good on your robutts I'm sure it will work for marines.

>>53884541
What's with the super thick black lines between the red and the gold? Nothing wrong with it I'm just curious. It sort of makes them look cartoony.

>>53884718
Oh, they're actually dark brown; I wanted a constrast between the red and gold because they look a little muddled otherwise. Having such an intense barrier between them brought out more color for both of them.

>>53884642
Aww thanks!

>>53884541
What colours did you use for the red, also, which ones for the gold?

I've used a basecoat of sprayed retributor armour, but imo metallic looks so flat without a wash/shade. And I don't want to have the wash looking like blotched ink on flat surfaces.

>>53877175
Not Carnac but I think that'd be a good ending, and then the Emperor has a calm face as he still believes it was all for the greater good

>>53877414
I forget we're these conversions or confirmed models

custodes and sisters have no entry on the allies chart?

>>53877724
>grabiya process
Explain
>>53878069
It's not custodes that are attacked it's their players which are annoying and constantly mention the untold masses of oil they hold. Just like AWG and his R E S I N from FUCKING FORGEWORLD I mean like dude how rare is that

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What's /hhg/'s opinion on Deathstorm Drop Pods? I want to include some in my IW Orbital Assault army.

Also, what is the use of a Kharybdiss, aside of being a cool model, when one can take Dreadclaws as well?

>>53878422
Nothing which is why it makes sense when Kurze gives a bolter to a conquered mortal
>>53878461
They kept on breaching forts that were inside forts
>>53878582
>wanting worst mark
>>53878677
>dorn is made a daemon price of nurgle for literal shits and giggles
>dorm sacrificed the Dodechedranon, his awesome siege commanders, to cause a warp storm to delay the UM and more importantly the loyalist IW led by perepetual Dantioch because the Cabal has fallen to infighting

>>53885313
>Deathstorm
I quite like the idea of them but they are expensive and unreliable, if the initial attack was made at BS4 rather than BS2 then I would consider them worth their points.

>Kharybdiss
A nice blob/deathstar delivery method but obviously suffers from the usual reserve limitations. Enjoy your 800 point deathstar never seeing the table if you come up against a maximum reserve shenanigans Alpha Legion player.

>>53885394
>worst mark
>not MkV

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>>53885514
What's wrong with MkV? Not a rhetorical question, btw.

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>>53885570
>dude studs lmao
>ugly power cables everywhere
>teardrop kneepads

>>53885570
It's the Walmart of power armour, the only thing it has going for it is cheapness.

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>>53885514
>>53885647
>talking shit about carcharodons astra

>>53885394
>mk2
>worst

Take that back you fucking Primaris abomination.

>>53884541
What's with the decal placement... it looks like those are suppose to be touching the edge. As is it looks like someone stopped painting after half.

>>53886085
Mk3 is superior to mk2 in every way because GW told bligh all power armour had to be the exact same

>read Scars
>muh Warmaster
>muh Russ
>muh Alpha Legion
>muh no Slaves to anyone

all the drama and confusion of loyalty could have been prevented by a simple declaration of "We stand with the Emperor, do you?" compared to the Lodge ridden White Scars, the DA's were paragons of loyalty, despite getting a lot of flak.

>>53887735
I'm not sure why people like the White Scars, and the HH novels have made it even worse.

>>53886917
Explain this.

>>53887775
The colour scheme is cool while their unique buck tooth helmets are also nice.

>>53887775
Because you are alone in disliking the novels
>>53887832
>looks cooler
>same save
>iron within iron without armour for iron legions that siege with siege tyrants is the new wolf copy pasta

>>53888115
>Because you are alone in disliking the novels
"We're so cool because we do everything completely differently than the rest of the Imperium, but we hate that the rest of the Imperium thinks we're weirdos, but we won't make any effort to connect to them" is dull, and the characters suffer for it. As much as the Wolves are asinine, at least they're honest about it.

>>53886917
I sexually identify as a suit of MkIII 'Iron' Power Armour. Ever since I was a boy I dreamed of protecting a Space Marine from the front. People tell me that being a a suit of MkIII 'Iron' Power Armour is impossible and that I'm a non-compliant but I don't care, those guys are probably fucking xenos. I'm having a plastic surgeon attach a electrically motivated fibre bundles to me and then I can help a marines a crusade against the enemies of mankind. From now on everyone should respect my right to be a suit of MkIII 'Iron' Power Armour and my right to intimidate xenos; protecting my right of conquest. If you can't accept me you are a Ironaphobe and should check your MkIV 'Maximus' Power Armour privilege, fucking balanced unabbuted plate covered scum. For those who do accept me as a suit of MkIII 'Iron' Power Armour, thanks for understanding.

>>53888268
You have my support, trans-power armour rights now.

>>53883995
>their pattern is the standard because they teach it, not because they've bred that much
Yes, this is the point. If everybody acts Cadian and dresses Cadian, despite not having Cadian blood or eyes, are Cadians considered the Imperial standard? Yes, they are.

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>>53885281
This is why legions, when they had their primarchs, didn't need to recruit from whole star systems like 40k primarchless chapters do.

>>53885394
>They kept on breaching forts that were inside forts
Matroshka forts of the IW Slavs.

>>53888533
>people were surprised that legions full of 18 year olds given the immensive power of being a space marines wouldn't revolt

>>53888663
It's funny because Fortreidon, who is probably 15, is the one who helps break a revolt in his squad on the razing of Olympia despite living there only a few months ago. His older squad mates either freeze or revolt.

>>53888209
This
>haha silly Imperium we're not like you silly gaijin
>wtf fucking Imperials why does nobody trust me?

Chrischan tier

Genuine question. How are you all dealing with primaris marines making heresy vets looking like manlets?

Like I love heresy and want to continue my collection, but its just embarrassing seeing them squared up to primaris marines

Haven't been keeping up with HH lately, are they going to rewrite all the black books for 8E or make their own rules?

>>53889978
I'm personally not embarrassed, because the Primaris I've seen so far are snapfit starter minis while my HH dudes are a carefully built collection of quite expensive models I've dedicated a lot of time and effort to. So my army has intrinsic value to me as a project and greater objective value as a thing to anyone.

I also don't get intimidated or upset by other people's armies, other people's shit is for inspiration and complements, not hating on being bothered by.

Thirdly, I'll eventually get some Primaris and make something of my own once the model range is bigger and every cunt's army doesn't look fucking identical.

Fourthly, mocking people who put Primaris down in HH games and claim they're totally fine in the setting bro will be funny. I'll play you if your entire army is stand-ons and paper counters, I dgaf about pieces if you don't have 'em, but don't bullshit that your Primaris are sekrit lab experiments with advanced armour or some shit, you may as well just roll with Razorbacks and say it's an advanced experimental tank if you're gonna do that.
>but my headcanon for my 8th ed Primaris squad in my HH army is better and totally fine.
No, it isnt'.
>>53890018
HH is staying in 7th for a while, it's getting it's own 7th ed rulebook with just HH relevant info in it. It will be moving to 8th at some point but no-one knows when. Unlikely to be a BBB rewrite, more likely to be red books when it happens. No-one knows what format Angelus will take or if it will be delayed,

>>53890107
Nice, I can get behind that, means I don't have to rewrite all my army lists yet

Also is Angelus the name of the BA & DA book that's meant to be coming next? any news on what's going to be in it?

>>53890333
Yeah, it's BA, DA, Daemons, Dark Mechanicum and some new stuff for the Night Lords.

>>53887775
They were good novels - the prose, story structure, and characterization were all above average, whether you like the legion or not.

Personally, I like that the Scars had trouble picking sides. It's what would've happened to any legion (except the fanatical ones) that became aware of the upcoming war before being attacked, like the Isstvan III legions.

And I like their character in general. I can't identify with the usual legions that get adjectives like relentless, remorseless, implacable, disciplined... that has nothing in common with me, so when I got into 40k I stayed away from marines. But here's a legion that's contemplative, disorganized/improvisational, late to meetings... other than being a puny preposthuman, I'd fit right in.

>>53890018
It sounds like they were planning on moving to 8th edition, but then Alan Bligh got cancer and, sadly, died. Without their lead designer, FW has decided to stick with 7th for an undetermined length of time. They'll be selling 7th ed rules (because GW won't be anymore), hopefully with some edits but I wouldn't count on it - this all seems rushed and stopgap-like.

They won't rewrite the black books because the rules portions of those books get invalidated all the time. For example, the red books have already revised a lot of the legion rules, unit rules, and points values in black books 1-5.

>>53889978
Primaris isn't in 30k so it doesn't matter at all to me

>>53890608
I liked Yesugei and that was about it, and only because he was actually involved in the wider Imperium, and tried to interact while remaining Chogorian. The Torghun bitter about not being a Luna Wolf? He held onto that grudge for decades, though at least he was a boss against Mortarion. The other one whose name I can't recall because nothing he did in either novel stands out beyond getting bionics is pretty self explanatory. Plus the Imperial Army officer who was the psuedo Cyrene for the WS could have been interesting, but wasn't explored much.

>Personally, I like that the Scars had trouble picking sides.
Sure, but both novels did fuck all for getting me interested in the Legion itself, nor giving me reasons beyond "We act totally aloof, and are surprised when we're treated badly because of it."

>And I like their character in general.
Almost every book in the series has made me like at least some aspect of the Legions (Except for Angel Exterminatus which is the autism and hedonism power hour), except for the WS books, because the Legion just feels so damn dull.

>>53885119
The gold is actually Duncan's tutorial! The only changes are that the reikland fleshshade wash was done with a bit of lahmian medium tossed in to help stop pooling and clumpiness; as it dried I would go around the model to make sure nothing looked uneven.

The red is Mephiston red in two slightly thinned coats and then two thinned coats of wazdakka red.

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>tonks have melee attacks
>>53890769
At a certain point in a discussion, it's revealed that your interests and biases mean you just will not and cannot like a thing to the objective level of it's worth. This is fine because all appreciation is subjective, and makes for good discussion. This post is much much better than 'Scars sucks you're all faggots for liking it' because you're explaining your shit opinion and now seem like a real and respectable person instead of a cartoon fuckboi

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>>53890973
>>tonks have melee attacks

>>53890973
>because you're explaining your shit opinion
How is it a shit opinion, beyond you being a faggot who leaps straight to adhom when I say I think these books are bad at making me care about the characters and Legion?

>>53891046
you clearly haven't read them as there are literal chapters of depth detailing their culture and their feelings and views. all if that builds a decent picture on why they're distant from others. you somehow missed that.
also, there's at least 2 main novels plus 3 shorts

>>53891146
I read both novels and all but one of the short stories. The rationale can be summed up as "we stick to our own culture and ways, deal with it Imperials." Again, the Wolves are asshats who they stick to their own ways, thumb their noses and everyone, but recognize why no one likes them.

>>53890769
>Sure, but both novels did fuck all for getting me interested in the Legion itself
Fair enough. It did for me - I didn't care about the WS before reading them and now I'm starting an army.

>>53891224
Nice. I'm having trouble deciding who to start and consistently play with, I'm trying to find a Legion that I can do combined arms with as something that isn't compulsory to keep my troops alive.

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>>53891002
I'm literally just reading this thing now for the first time. It's neat.
>>53891046
'Thing sucks you're all idiots for liking it' is a shit opinion and 'I didn't like thing because of the following' is a reasoned one.
And you can say things like omg you leaped to adhom you meanie and call me a fag all you like, it doesn't change that explaining a shit opinion and discussing it is better than just dropping it like a turd into a water tank and wanting to fite people over it like a child. But sure be upset, although you surely can't expect to be beligerant then be treated like a snowflake about it.
Explain to us more of why the White Scars are terrible and the books are bad. It's interesting.

>>53888811
Book link?

>>53891286
>as something that isn't compulsory to keep my troops alive
I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

Any favorites? Tell us more.

>>53887775
so far they are the sueiest legion in the HH
>don't take heavy losses in any engagement so far
>are being fellated by both sides
>the Khan is apparently a better swordsman, tactician, statesman and Go-player than Fulgrim, Horus and Guilliman respectively
While Legions get decimated and used as cannon fodder all throughout the series, the White Scars don't have to take any setbacks, and are allowed to shine at Terra on top of that.

>>53891438
Perhaps because nobody except Wraight at BL has ever heard of them?

>>53891430
>I don't understand what you're trying to say here.
One of my tac squads got shelled the moment they got out of their Rhino because I'm still not great at the game, mainly.

>Any favorites? Tell us more.
I kind of like the aesthetic of the Ultramarines, but the LGS has an Ultras player whose a prick to anyone who plays them. The Alphas appeal to me, but I tried playing them a little and got tabled, so I think I'm doing something wrong.

>>53891577
Shit that got cut off. I'm interested in playing just about any Legion, I don't really have any favorites or dislikes.

>>53891577
>I kind of like the aesthetic of the Ultramarines, but the LGS has an Ultras player whose a prick to anyone who plays them.
Establish your dominance over him.

>>53891438
Didn't they have like 7000 marines in total? Didn't like half of them fell to chaos at one occasion?

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>>53884500
I'm going with artificer armour, thunder hammer and iron halo. He's already going to be a bit expensive compared to say a Praetor.

>>53891770
Um, no.

A minority of the WS just had Horus sympathies, which were manipulated by the ring leaders.

They weren't chaos worshippers

Is it worth it to play Blackshields? I really love the idea and lore potential.

>>53891912
This is 30k play what is fun and fluffy, us iron warriors are just lucky in having the best rules

>>53891438
>>don't take heavy losses in any engagement so far
Only 40-50% of their fleet made it to Terra, and presumably that many of their marines. The four years between Scars and The Path of Heaven whittled them down pretty hard.
>>are being fellated by both sides
Not really. Dorn sent a message ordering them back to Terra - not a lot of affection in that message. Horus didn't show up in person or anything; Mortarion went, apparently without Horus knowing, and that backfired because he was so abrasive.
>>the Khan is apparently a better swordsman, tactician, statesman and Go-player than Fulgrim, Horus and Guilliman respectively
The Khan doesn't really say he's a better swordsman, he says "You would lose because you would treat it like a game, like you treat everything, and I would not. You would lose because you know nothing of me, and I know everything of you because you shout it from the turrets of your battle cruisers."

Tactician... the Khan's good in space battles, but they did seem a little inefficient as a legion on Chondax in Brotherhood of the Storm. He admits to weakness in the strategic sense when he isn't sure what to do in The Path of Heaven and considers going out in a big final battle.

Statesman... not sure where you're getting that. Only among his own men, but that's normal for primarchs.

Go player, definitely.

>>53885313
>>53885433
Second opinion on the deathstorm. For 120 points (you wont buy drop pod assault, just have them come turn 2) you get a unit that statistically kills 5 tacticals if you just target one unit of tacticals. It has a massive potential to kill huge numbers of models due to it firing d3 rounds of shooting against EACH unit that has LoS within 12 inches. If you drop one of these down to target 2-3 units, it will pay for itself in the first round, and then pour out 15 krak missiles a round afterwards until destroyed (you will likely be able to attack with 4-5 launches if positioned well).

Even with poor positioning, krak missile heavy support squad is 160 points.