AoS and 40k exist together

>>53851827

always been the case but age of shitters will tell us aos introduced this new ground breaking bit of fluff

>>53851886
I miss when we'd see warriors of chaos with plasma guns they got from the warp

>>53851886
Age of shitter here. I do know there used to be a bit of 40k fluff that the warhammer fantasy world was a planet cut off by warp storms, but that was the only link I knew of. With all the warp happenings during end times and the destruction of the old world, it is entirely possible that the mortal realms are just another galaxy far far away.

>>53851827
Two tumours for the overpriced value of one.

>>53851943

> Chaos Warriors with Plasma Guns
> Chaos Warriors with Chainswords
> Skinks/Amazons with Lasguns
> Dark Elves with Power Fists

Albion was a fun campaign.

>>53852010
What is Albion?

>>53852095
lurk moar

I am all for keeping the 2 settings separate, but there is something about this that's delightful. I wouldn't say no to being able to play my Stormcast Eternals in 40k.

This has always been implied if not out right stated. This isn't news, it never has been.

>>53851827
>same gods
>that operate by the same rules
>same orcs
>this is news
8th will be the last edition of 40k because GW wants to pander to this faggot >>53852140 and his ilk.

>>53852340
Oh I know, it's just fun to get little nuggets of info like this from time to time.

>>53852556
Oh you poor poor tormented soul.

>>53852622
stop trying to imitate Jim Sterling's speech mannerisms he's a fucking cartoon character

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>this thread and everyone in it

>>53852657
Literally who?

>>53852674
a fedoracore autismo who speaks like a cartoon

>>53852622
You play men in power armor in round bases.
Why you didn't pick 40k or 30k, the games built around that concept and with something resembling depth, over one of the most braindead imitations of kings of war I'll never know.
So forgive me for not sharing in your enthusiasm about your entire pointless purchases being compatible with another system you probably should have taken up instead.

>>53851980
Not only that, but there was a gem in the College of Mages that contained the 40K verse as well.

>>53852693
>A morbidly obese fedoracore autismo

>>53851827
lt's called a joke you tard. this is the problem, idiots have to look for deeper meanings when there are none.

>>53852693
>>53852782
Cool. Never heard of him. So I still don't understand how I am imitating his speech patterns.

>>53852720
They are demi-gods in heavy armor on round bases, but I can see where you're confused.

I play 40k too. I like space marines in fluff and all, but they never really pulled me in as an army. So I play mostly xenos armies. And as a long time fan of 40k, I do agree there is a lot of depth there, but I fail to see where AoS draws comparisons to KoW, because the latter was meant to be a whfb clone. AoS doesn't have much depth yet because it's fairly new and the lore is developing over time. There's a lot there when you really bother to look.

But all of this is a moot point. I feel sorry for you (hence the poor tortured soul comment) not because you aren't sharing my enthusiasm, but because you allow yourself to get triggered by something you don't like, and the fact that others find enjoyment in it.

>>53851886
Stop lying. Fantasyfags long denied that fantasy and 40K exist within the same multiverse despite the tons of evidence going back to Liver Chaotica. And i have the threads that prove it in the archive.

You are misdirecting the blame towards innocent men and women.

>>53852009
Come again to our hospital :D !
> Cancer givers : You basic magical d&d class

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>>53851827
>GW 1996: hey guys did you know that 40k and fantasy are connected!??!?! CHAINSWORDS IN FANTASY isn't that cool?
>Players 1996: hahaha yeah okay man haha pretty good *ignores completely*

>GW 2005: hey guys chaos in fantasy and 40k are the same so that means the worlds are connected cool huh???
>Players 2005: haha yeah ok man *ignores*

>GW 2010: hey guys chaos gods can't be killed because they're multiuniversal including the 40k universe cool huh?????
>Players 2010: can we stop inviting this kid to play our games he's getting really annoying *ignores*

>GW 2016: the UNIVERSES ARE THE SAME AND YOU'LL FUCKING DEAL WITH IT REEEEEEE
>Players 2016: *nearly everyone's quit*

>>53853173
>They are demi-gods in heavy armor
So space marines.
The comparison to KoW comes because both have fixed to hit and to wound stats.
However in kow the to wound is how much the enemy needs to roll to wound, not how much you need to roll to wound.
Also actual positioning matters.

>>53851886
Nah, it depends on which fluff period we are in. Warhammer has never had much canon integrity and established stuff will often be disregarded for various reasons.

>>53853309
>Also actual positioning matters.
Confirmed for never playing AoS. Positioning matters a lot in AoS. It's one of those hidden tactics not specifically mentioned in rules, but becomes apparent the more you play. There are ways to manipulate combats, wound removals, objective campings, etc by positioning alone.

If you are referring specifically to rank and file blocks and flanking bonuses, then no, there is none of that. But when units meet in combat, the pile-in phase becomes a tactical opportunity, as well as the angle you attacked from in terms of minimalizing your opponent's attacks on you, and maximizing yours.

But I can see that AoS is not your thing, and that's fine. KoW is a fine game too. I can see the appeal in both. I just like AoS more for various reasons.

>>53853410
It doesn't matter, just march your blob of chaff into the enemy elites and hope you can roll 5+/5+ or 4+/4+ with enough concistency.
Getting hit in the sides matters fuck all because the unit is just as effective in combat to the side as it is to the front unless you did something stupid like a long line.
Unlike say lotr (to use another game of loose models) where your line getting flanked is actually a danger because your units can no longer support each other.

>>53853397
Like every setting ever. Don't act like Warhammer is unique.

>>53852118
No reasonable amount of lurking is going to inform someone of something like that.

>>53853060
He's popular to hate. I like the theatrics of his videos, but my god he has his opinions and if you have any others he will lambaste you.

>>53853521
Nah, this is mostly a problem in any franchise setting with lots of contributers. Too many cooks spoils the broth and all that.

>>53853521
How many settings were renaissance rather than aping a loose idea of medieval times?
Even if it had Lawrence of Arabia as a unit.

>>53853521
Yup, Warhammer has always been fanfic tier to justify toy soldiers fighting. The source material for most of their ideas is also infinitely better written. The writing quality used to be better than what it currently is, though.

>>53852740
I always assumed it was am observation device or a really fancy star map from the war in heaven

>>53851827
40K Skaven when???

>>53851827
40k Lizardmen when?

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>>53853521
>>53853701
warhammer fantasy was one of the best fantasy settings around and had the absolute best dwarves and maybe elves in fantasy

>inb4 sparkling human tolkien elves are better

warhammer fantasy is how everyone sees tolkien elves now days anyway

>>53853723
Reeee rats leave!
40k is for the Old Ones!

>>53853763
make way for the horned rat!

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>>53853473
There's actually a lot more to it than that.

Let me show you an example. This is a basic exercise in positioning and charging that AoS players need to be mindful of.

On the top we see a large 10man unit in red that's about to be charged by the blue. Let's assume each model only has 1 attack in combat. The red unit is set up to spread out as much as possible. This is a common position to take for blocking charge lanes and protecting things in the back, like wizards, heroes, guns etc. It's a standard defensive position.

If we go to example A1, the blues charge the reds right in the middle. With pile-in, the blues cannot move any further, because in the pile-in, you must move toward the closest enemy model in combat, and if you are already in base-2-base, you are stuck where you are. So the reds just wrap around the blues (A2). The blues will be getting 3 total attacks in this combat, but the reds will be getting 8 because of how the pile-in worked. The blue player did not position the charge to best advantage.

Now if we go to example B1, the blues decide to charge the reds on the left, rather than the middle. This does multiple things. First, it minimalizes the amount of attacks the reds will get on the blues because the pile-in means they will need to move farther to surround them (B2) where in this example the reds are only getting 5 attacks on the blues. Also another thing happens, because the reds are having to move to surround the blues, this could potentially open up a charge lane so other units can get to the guns or heroes they were protecting.

These are things to watch out for in games of AoS, and I am merely scratching the surface on shapes of charges and being charged. Positioning does matter in AoS, but in a different way than games like KoW or whfb.

>>53853586
>>53853701
I can follow the story of 40K and its canon. It's pretty straightforward.

I can never follow the stories of comics (DC & Marvel) because they are convoluted. Guys who say 40K is a mess are just people who never read the lore too much.

I mean for the sake of Allah, retcons and minor changes happen every 4 to 8 years to the setting. The updates are slow as a hell as I am puzzled how you guys cannot keep up.

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>>53853760
AoS flying steampunk dwarfs are better. At least they are not generic.

>>53853775
And let's not forget the tactic of wound removal.

Going back to the B figures, Let's say the blues kill 3 of the red models. The Red player could remove the 3 models from the far right, still maximizing the attacks on the blues. However this further opens the charge lane and loses protection for the back. Or, the red player could remove 3 from the models right on the blues, keeping the charge lane closed for just a little longer, but reducing the effective amount of attacks for dealing with the blues.

>>53853760
I never cared for the Warhammer dorfs and elves. The dorfs are just too autistic and the elves are just a bunch of pricks. They also have hilarious conservative cultures that makes them look like the most uncreative cultures ever.

>>53853806
lmao@yourli4e mate

redditniggers with the "change for the sake of change" mentality will hang in the coming race wars

>>53853886
You can't trust those Tzeentch cultists.

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>>53853806

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>>53853806
>>53853861
GET
T
H
E
BOOK

>>53853775
Congratulations, you reached sub 4th edition 40k levels of combat complexity.
Aka even less than minimal.

>>53853937
We seriously need chaos xenos in 40k.
I am really hoping the tau 4th sphere expansion and the ynnarii are setting that up, because by god, if they're trying to push chaos as the one true big bad they need to show chaos fucking with something other than humans.

>>53853806
They're too warmachine.
Old world dwarves had helicopters, ironclads, and some submarines.

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>>53853806
>>53853861
>dorfs and elves have actual personality traits that dont just make them tall/shorter versions of human
>reddit considers this generic and boring compared to short humans in masks
>also completely ignoring chaos dorfs who are entirely about innovating and trying new shit

only dark elves were shit tier

>>53854008
Sure let's ignore the fact that I said this is merely scratching the surface, or a basic example. I just used it to illustrate how positioning matters in AoS, where you claim it doesn't. There's a lot more to it.

I get though that you have already maid up your mind on everything and have no interest in exploring it further. Enjoy your continued uninformed ridiculing of something you understand little of.

>>53854124
It doesn't, put your men in a block and they're in too combat efficiency.
Removing casualties from the back like in almost every other unit game ever does not mean it is in any shape complex.

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>>53854006
THEY HAVE WRONGED US

>>53855345
Dwarves never looked good with the back banner.

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>>53855498

>>53855540
Anything that makes the model looks like a huge attention whore is objectively ugly.

>>53851827
that's cool i guess. as long as they dont't try and force the two together it will be fine.

>>53855799
I seriously doubt they will. But it is just fun to think about.

How would girlyman react to sigmar?
Would the orks of 40k and those of the mortal realms get along as well as expected, or would one try to dominate over the other?
How would T'au deal with the mortal realms?

>>53855904
>How would girlyman react to sigmar?
He would say "Brother of the 2nd/11th legion, you have returned!"

>>53853775

>this is what Fantasy, flawed as it was towards the end, died for
>generic MOBA plastic men being shuffled around

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So it is now canon that squats were temporarily sent into the wrong dimension through some sort of inter-dimensional warp fuckery and then phased back to their fantasy land?

>>53856053
technically squats were never squatted in lore and are currently canon

they just stopped getting models

>>53853210
Fantasyfags were not opposed to this ANon. Anyone can see there were rules for CSM in early fantasy. It was GW who routinely denied this. The games lore was OBVIOUSLY linked, but only to the sense that they used it as an excuse to box daemons in one box.

Early advertisements of 40k basically say its "fantasy in space".

There was several points when White Dwarf said "nah, not related." But was GWs policy because they just never linked the games in any substantial manner. It was a waste of potential, and in the end they only connected it via chaos fluff.
But I rarely remember fantasy players denying both universes existing together.

>>53855904
I'm sure they will become like warmahordes.
As for Yvraine's husband he'd hate the Sigmarines for following a false emperor, even if he hates the emperor.

>>53856074
Thought the Tyranids ate them all officially? Or is that just a running joke too?

>>53856074
Just use mantic forgefathers as IG and run them as squata.

>>53856131
>Fantasyfags were not opposed to this

They were very much opposed to this, at least most of them, and 40kfags as well.

There was an initial "wow cool" novelty factor when GW first talked about it, having chainswords in a medieval world and muskets in a futuristic world, but it quickly wore off when people interested in the fluff realized how abso-tardedly-lutely stupid the idea of a linked canon was between the two, so most people either criticized it or ignored it outright.

>>53853297 this example is pretty accurate. GW kept bringing up a connected universe, people either paid no attention or thought it was a weird joke, and GW repeated this until the End Times, when they shoved it down everyone's throats that the universes are linked. They were the captain now.

Subsequently many people got reasonably upset that a stupid novelty idea to get you to play crossgame miniatures against each other was now solid and unshaking canon, but it was forgotten about in the midst of the tidal wave of awful that was the End Times and the following Age of Sigmar.

I'd say that a generous estimate of the number of Warhammer players who loved the idea of the universes being connected was around .0017% in total.

>>53853730
Lizardi?

>>53856204
Nids ate a good amount of them, but not all of them.

>>53856276
Except GW has rarely put forth that the universes are truely shared. Old fantasy had some inclusion of CSM and shit like it...but it disappeared after that. Libre Chaotica is the biggest 'well duh' piece of fluff in the entire game. Until Libre Chaotica, very little was mentioned again.

The main thing is that when 40k was just starting, they were pushing them as linked in advertisements. That phased out overtime. I believe this is largely because GW couldn't find a way to link the games in any substantial (or profitable) way. IT was merely to save on boxes for daemons. Fuck Greater Daemons used the old fantasy boxes for years.

But in the earlier 2000s and area? Yeah, most people I knew didn't mind at all. I could see later fantasy players being 'against' it purely as they suffered from extreme snobbery. 40k vastly overtook fantasy in popularity, and so they wanted to be something 'different.'
It's basically your older brother being jealous of your success.

>>53856396
Extreme snobbery? No, that wasn't the only reason people hated it, it was because Warhammer Fantasy was a blend of Tolkien and 80's punk Britain with classic medieval elements and some original ones. It was a fantasy world of sword and sorcery, and when GW decides to say hurr buy our 40k minis use chainswords and boltguns in your fantasy world it of course would make people there for fantasy upset.

Imagine if you were playing Call of Cthulhu in its default 1920s setting and suddenly the developers say anyone can use modern assault rifles and futuristic railguns and laser swords and hovertanks in it.

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>>53856396
Actually, the WD about the 7th ED release of the daemons of Chaos army book said that daemons are the same in both universes.

Then you have the Draigo advent story in which he witnesses a world that is suspicious similar to the Warhams world and says he might visit there.

A few years later, A giant silver knight with a funny accent pops up in the End Times to help the heroes.

>>53856482
mate, bolters and chainswords haven't existed in fantasy in almost decades now.

>>53856396
>>53856482
>>53856505

Cross universing is the cheapest thing GW ever did and no one ever saw it coming.

It literally is
>sure these two settings don't blend at all but hey they actually do so feel free to use your 40k daemons in fantasy games and fantasy soldiers in 40k games hey while you're at it buy both and make everyone happy it'll be tons of fun! no seriously buy both now

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>>53856505
Of course, you can as well see the Eye of Terror in the fantasy map (source the 8th ED DoC army book) of the Realm of Chaos.

>>53856532
Dude, only daemons will crossover. Other armies crossing over won't happen. They are just letting you know that there is a multiverse as a little neat piece of information.

>>53856505
I stopped playing 40k in 6th, so thats news to me.
Early on there were several notes made by Andy chambers and a few others saying "nah not linked." Admittedly that's about 10 years old now, at least. GW is horribly inconsistent with this.

>>53856532
Except this, literally, never really happened, mate. Two sets of deities are literally the same between both. That's been the case since...ever.

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>>53856573
>>53856583
>a neat little piece of information
>a neat little
>neat

So this is the 0017% of people who for some reason thought the universes crossing was a good thing

>>53856614
>someone else shares opinion that differs from mine

>>53856614
The Marvel and DC franchises have multiverses with each of their setting having something unique. There are fantasy universes, sci-fi universes, etc.

GW is not doing or have done anything out of the ordinary as fiction creators.

But don't worry, there won't be "Crisis of Infinite Warhammers".

>>53856614
>0017%
>17%
>almost one-fifth of people like it
Are you for, or against?

>>53856664
>implying multiple comic universes created for merchandising haven't caused skub and aren't stupid

>>53856654
>>53856665

I'd be cool with it if were optional, like an optional sidebar detailing how you can link the two worlds together.

Making it mandatory and making it hard canon is what peeves my sheeves. It's just dumb. Sure you can ignore it and pretend it's not a thing in your RPGs or wargames, but ignoring it doesn't make it not canon. You'll have to accept that GW cares so little about the fluffy stuff of their worlds that they would do such things and more to fuck them up.

>>53856654
Come now. Surely you've been in a warhammer thread about the fluff before? There's no greater crime on /tg/ than a differing opinion.

>>53856730
As said above, GW has always not really "used" this, but just poked at it a few times. The largest 'poke' was Libre Chaotica, and 2nd Ed fantasy having boltguns.

>>53856774
I hit managed to post that early, oops.

>>53856730
There are huge similiarites between the creation myths, daemonic entities, and gods. Even Eldars are almost identical and any major differences could be summarized as differences of faith. Both 40k and Fantasy Khaine is as ruthless and blood thirsty. While Dark Elves love Khaines aspect of bloodshed, Dark Eldar despise the entire Eldar pantheon.

But Daemons? Good lord, those are literally indentical. The only "big" difference is the Everchosen isn't really present in 40k. The only two times 40k has backed a single person behind the gods was Horus, and then Abbadon...but not remotely to the same level that Archaeon, and previous Everchosen, have been.

>>53856730
Its just that the Warp and Chaos are same for both. It will effect nobody but Chaos, and within that only Demons are affected as all the corrupted mortals only care about their own universe.

>>53856814
>>53856816

Except the gods are very different in both worlds.

In 40k the Chaos gods were born from conflict and disasters on Earth and Slaanesh was born from the corruption of the Eldar. They have countless followers by 41M and threaten the entire galaxy almost unopposed spiritually after Slaanesh caught all but two of the Eldar gods with their pants down.

In Fantasy the Chaos gods and their opposite Order gods were born when the Warpgates collapsed releasing tides of raw energy into the world, which empowered greater spirits in the Warp who decided to emerge and exert control over the world, becoming gods. The gods of Elves have unknown origins and the Human and Dwarfen gods are thought to be aspects of the Law gods.

Gork and Mork have no known origin in either universe.

In 40k Slaanesh devoured the Eldar gods after they were weakened by the sudden deaths of millions of their followers. All but Khaine and Cegorach were killed, but Khaine fought Slaanesh and escaped into the mortal world when Khorne showed up and started fighting Slaanesh as well.

In Fantasy the Elven gods and Slaanesh co-existed. Slaanesh attempted to kill or overtake Khaine at some point and got horrifically bitchslapped, leaving a huge scar.

Khaine is very different between the universes. In 40k he's far more benevolent and righteously furious at the Chaos gods. In Fantasy he's very ambivalent and doesn't care much for any side. He just enjoys fighting, though to lesser extent than Khorne. In Fantasy it's also mentioned at times that Khaine and Khorne may be related somehow.

The Orcs are different from Orks. The Elves are different from Eldar. The Necrons are different from Tomb Lords. The Ogryns are different from Ogres.

They're all similar because GW intended to make a bizarre and satirical space game set in a grimdark world inspired by their Fantasy world. That only came later in an attempt to boost the popularity of 40k in the 90s

The universes are incredibly dissimilar.

>>53856956
>opposite of the Order gods
>talking about AoS
This is discussing actual fantasy Anon.

>>53856956
Dude, you are mixing your headcanon with retconned crap. Shut the fuck up.

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>>53853937
They've already said they're expanding into the darklands around the 3rd game. So just wait and you'll get Chaos Dorfs and Ogre Kingdoms plenty

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>>53853775

This is a great example on how I try to explain that there is more to it than rolling 5+/5+ in a game of AoS.

Extra fun to ad in an additional unit that charges the other side of the red unit, to "string them out" so to say, because lets not forget about coherency! There are literally tons of good positioning tactics in AoS, but as soon as you bring it up the grumpy old grognard´s starts swaying away with a "fuck you, Its the setting of AoS I hate! I never really cared much for the game...".

To me, positioning in AoS is far more strategic than it ever was in WHFB.

>>53857080
>AoS
>actual fantasy

you what

>>53857364
>Somehow read the exact opposite of what was stated.
Obtuse/10

>>53857361
Multiple units work better as well. You can actually have spear niggers hanging back behind a unit that they can poke through.

>>53856532
>no one saw it coming

ANDY CHAMBERS WROTE THAT THEY WERE THE SAME UNIVERSE IN A WHITE DWARF ARTICLE - B E F O R E - THE FIRST EDITION OF 40K EVEN HIT THE STORES

40K WAS - A D V E R T I Z E D - AS BELONGING TO THE SAME UNIVERSE

HOW CAN PEOPLE "NOT SEE IT COMING"?

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>>53855702

>Not liking back banners
>Being this new to wargames

Get out...

>>53857426
Don't fret.
He's just a breed of faggot who thinks he's a lore master because he read some 6e armybooks.

>>53857451
If you like the universes being connected, have at it, but it should never have been made connected by default. That's fucking idiotic.

>>53857361
>randomly mashing blobs together is more strategic than unit manouvering, having to balance frontage, depth, and how it moved
I hate you.

>>53857484
>two universes that share basic concepts, lore elements and even CHARACTERS shouldn't be connected, that's fucking idiotic

>>53857511
>a late medieval-early renaissance fantasy world should be connected to the real world 39,000 years into the future, that's not idiotic at all

>>53857484
>If you like the universes being connected, have at it

I don't really care, they don't cross over enough for it to be really relevant.

>it should never have been made connected by default.

Why?

>>53857546
How is it idiotic?
Why should technology be the same everywhere throughout the universe?
There are worlds in the Imperium more primitive than the Warhammer Fantasy world.

>>53857553
>Why?

Because it not only ruins Fantasy being this cool fictional fantasy world but also ruins the backstory of the gods, daemons, and the general universe as a whole.

>>53857546
It's a standard future-regression narrative that was extremely popular throughout the 80s and 90s.

If you have a problem with that, you have a problem with a massive part of science fiction

>>53857578
>ruins Fantasy being this cool fictional fantasy world

How? What is ruined?

>ruins the backstory of the gods, daemons, and the general universe as a whole.

Again, how? What's been ruined? The Gods are extra-dimensional beings in both settings.

>>53857578
How does the WFB world stop being cool just because it's in our galaxy?

How does it ruin the backstory of Chaos when 95% of it was written as a way to connect both settings?

>>53857490

See, this is the problem with most grognard´s, including some of my better friends. You have this illusion that its all about moving flat out in to a big pile in the center of the board and just have at it. If that's the type of games you're used to play, then have at it I guess.

But when you ad in the objectives, the more rare units that needs cover-units, how you can actually use spears as >>53857415 mentions, how you can utilize multicharge other than "oh I get a +1 combat res", How you can force the opponent to not be able to swing back at you at all, because he needs to keep his blocking unit blocking as >>53853775 describes.

The list goes on and on my friend, and its silly you guys still walk by with a blank face believing positioning in AoS has nothing to do with it. I say, positioning has everything to do with it in a game of AoS and offers tactics far more than most would assume as long as you abide by the RAW.

>>53852010
<3 I still have my shamans and shambler from Albion campaign.

>>53857616
>>53857629
The Gods are very different in both worlds though. They have similarities but very different personalities and origins. It takes away anything unique about the spiritual entities of Fantasy and has the more recent added effect of continuing GW's contest to see how hard they can suck off Chaos. In Fantasy their biggest weakness was running out of followers or being stopped by the Law gods. Now that they just "lol xd rule multiple dimensions" it's no longer an issue. Sucking off Chaos as hard as possible.

>>53857595
As someone quite interested in 80s and 90s sci-fi I have no idea what you're on about. Future regression narratives were rare and not very popular. 40k was one of the first big ones, where humanity reached a technological peak then declined. Fantasy had nothing to do with future regression at all.

>>53852095
Summerfag detected

>>53857578
Before the Realms of Chaos, gods and daemons were just vague, underwritten concepts loosely lifted from DnD, just like everything else except zoats, fimirs and skavens.

Incidentally, the Realms of Chaos cemented the fact that 40K and WFB were the same setting; Chaos is the main connective tissue between 40k andd WFB

>>53857697
>The Gods are very different in both worlds though.

They are not.
Realm of Chaos was written with both Fantasy and 40k in mind. The Gods haven't really changed since those days.

> It takes away anything unique about the spiritual entities of Fantasy

How?

> In Fantasy their biggest weakness was running out of followers or being stopped by the Law gods.

Actually they were destined to win in Fantasy. The people of the Known World could not stop them.

>>53857709
>Chaos is the main connective tissue

Which most people paid no attention to and GW dropped it more or less, only to bring it back starting in 2010 when they wanted to author insert and mary sue Chaos up to unholy levels.

I'm not arguing that the connected universe thing didn't happen, anon, I'm arguing that it's fucking retarded that it did happen.

>>53857760
>GW dropped it more or less

No they didn't.
It never went away, it just never got much attention because why should it?

>I'm arguing that it's fucking retarded that it did happen.

You're not really arguing though, you just keep saying you don't like it.

>>53857697
the gods in general?

Maybe, but only because WFB's non-chaos gods were originally written as basic pagan deities.

The Chaos gods however, are THE SAME.

As for the gods of Law, back when they existed, 40k was still in the works, so that's fucking irrelevant.
40k is what made WFB part of 40k. You cannot claim that WFB isn't part of 40k without outright ignoring 40k.

>40k was one of the first big ones
The near entirety of the post-apocalyptic genre involves civilization reverting to a primitive state.

It was even in kids' cartoons. Fucking He-Man had elements of this.

>>53857666
Mashing two piles to your enemy's one is not strategy.
If a unit charged the flank the enemy at best got 4 or 5 attacks even with spears and this negated their parry. So even 8th, attack of the hordes grinding each other over 4 turns, had more game to it than AoS.

>>53857747
>Actually they were destined to win in Fantasy. The people of the Known World could not stop them.

Nope. Neither Chaos nor Order was desitned to win. The Warp was said to be in a prophecy, that everything would be destroyed, gods and all, and the physical world would end. That was just a prophecy though. In terms of the conflict between the CGs and OGs neither side was destined to win, and according to Moorcock neither side could win to begin with. Not only were both total victories shit in terms of what they'd bring, but they'd also bring the imbalance of reality, which would hasten the aforementioned Warp devastation of reality itself to correct the imbalance.

The Chaos gods could be beaten and could be stopped. The problem was evil was in everyone's hearts in some way or another, and that eventually people would become corrupt and destroy themselves anyway, even if the Chaos gods and all their followers were killed. Staring into the abyss metaphor.

Likewise, the Order gods could be beaten and killed and the Chaos gods could win, but in doing so they would inadvertantly tip the balance in such a skewed way that reality couldn't handle it and everything would be swept into the void and destroyed.

While both sides of gods denied it and fought against it, the most likely inevitable fact was either side dominating the other would result in their own destruction.

>>53857697
>Fantasy had nothing to do with future regression at all.
The Slann and the Zoats were super-advanced or space-faring civilizations that devolved to a primitive level, and that was before Chaos was even fleshed out.

>>53857819
Here he goes with his fanfiction. Guys literally everything he says goes against what's in the fluff new and old. This is pure autism.

>>53853571
Sounds like he'd fit right in here :^)

>>53857859
it's not quite fanfiction, it's an unfortunate mishmash of 1st edition Warhammer RPG lore and Michael Moorcock novels that inspired it.

>>53857666

Literally every point you make was in WHFB too

>objectives
>screening/redirectors
>multicharge robbing units of attacks
>positioning charges as to get hit by less models or to protect mages

Really everything in your list is done by EVERY. FUCKING. WARGAME.
Except most of them go way beyond, and that AoS is shallow as fuck

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>>53857819
>Nope. Neither Chaos nor Order was desitned to win.

Nope, Chaos was destined to win.
This is from the first book of the first edition of WHFRP.

>>53857793
>The Chaos gods however, are THE SAME.

Except they weren't.

Slaanesh was born from the Eldar gods for example, right? Warhammer Fantasy takes place in a universe before 40,000, right? Then how does Slaanesh and the Elven gods, including Khaine, co-exist with him?

The Chaos gods in 40,000 came about from Earth events. The Black Death spawned Nurgle. Warhammer Fantasy exists before 40,000. There was no Black Death in Fantasy. How could Nurgle exist?

The Chaos gods in 40,000 are the result of twisted emotions and evils of humans and eldar. The Chaos gods in Fantasy are the result of powerful spirits getting steroids from Warp gate collapses and coming into the world to control it.

Argue however much you like, refer to any dumb GW "totally connected universe guyz" line you want, but it will never make any sense or be a good thing, at all, ever, period. It exists solely to make you buy both games so GW can get more money. It's a marketing ploy that makes no sense in the context of the lore. End of story.

>>53857859
I am autistic about it, sure, but I'm not wrong.

I was a person who loved the old lore of both Fantasy and 40k and seeing it get ripped apart and shit on strikes a chord.

>>53857920
>Warhammer Fantasy takes place in a universe before 40,000, right?

Nothing suggest that, no.

>The Chaos gods in Fantasy are the result of powerful spirits getting steroids from Warp gate collapses and coming into the world to control it.

The Chaos Gods existed before the collapse of the Gates. It's noted that they may have been the ones to cause it.

>>53857920
You are wrong in the worst way possible The lore says one thing and you say something entirely else.

>>53857909
>they too will be swept back into the void to rejoin the identities they emerged from
>everything will be destroyed and rolled back into the void

Thanks for proving my point.

>>53857898
>unfortunate

Why? Because it makes Chaos less than omnipotent? I'm cool with people liking Chaos, and if fanboyism isn't your intention, sorry, but if you or others think the old way lore went is bad because it makes Muh Chaos not able to win everything with complete ease, then you're fanboys.

Chaos hijacking both universes and becoming unstoppable is what many people have the most hate for, and for good reason. There are other factions besides Chaos to play, and some of us like playing them and not being told our factions suck and we suck because buy Chaos because they're GW's authorial insert.

>>53857920
>warhammer fantasy takes place in a universe before 40,000, right?
wrong.
It takes place in 40k. It takes place in the future. Not in the present.

WFB takes place in the far future of the 41st millenium.

>>53857959
>It's noted that they may have been the ones to cause it.

It's suggested that the Warp's own power weakening the gates is what caused it or that the gates just malfunctioned.

The Chaos gods and Order gods were not gods, just entities in the Warp that acted as different possibilities of reality. Given new power they decided to step out into the world and control it for better or worse.

1st edition WFRPG. Marienburg supplement. Realm of Divine magic supplement. Moorcock novels. Realm of Chaos books.

>>53857973
>Thanks for proving my point.

How does that prove your point? The text clearly says that the Chaos Gods will remain and that the lawful void creatures will become their bitches.

>>53857959
Why are we even debating this.
It is the same universe because thats what it started as.

You used to be able to take chaos space marines into your chaos army.

The Old Ones are the next thing.

THen of course the Albion campaign which gave you a power sword, a power fist and an iron halo.

In the end times you had lizardmen communicating with eldar and some guys meeting a space marine.

This is a non discussion for idiots that never had any idea about the setting.
Originally Sigmar was meant to be a lost Primarch.

And if they wanna make that very obvious thing that is the connection between fantasy and 40k more clear then good, it used to be that way anyway.

Now give me some chainsowrd models for lizardmen.

Its not like the "Piranah Blade" wasnt always meant to be a Chainsword anyway.

>>53858011
>The Chaos gods and Order gods were not gods

The Chaos Gods were. They didn't leave the warp and become lawful like some spirits did.

>>53857973
It's unfortunate because it's wrong: what little lore exists about the Gods of Law doesn't state that they could win against Chaos. If anything they've always been presented as fairly weak and roughly equivalent to the renegade gods of chaos.

I mean for fuck's sake, Arianka is Snow White. How is she gonna win against Nurgle?

Why does this autist keep sperging out about "GW pandering to chaos"?
Don't Chaos get the short end more often than not?

>>53858011
>Moorcock
stop mentioning him; he didn't write a single sentence of GW lore

>>53858018
No, it says that the Warp itself will thrust forms on all beings uncaringly. The Warp has some kind of sinister thing in it that's been fighting with the Old Ones a long time before the Chaos and Law gods happened. The CGs themselves are nothing more than minor, independent aspects of that being.

Stop fanwanking Chaos.

>>53858037
>Why are we even debating this.

Good question. Given the books I've proved my arguments correct so long as we're not speaking of the 2010 onward Fantasy lore, so as far as I'm concerned the argument is over.

>>53858082
I think he has been mind broken by Be'lakorfag or Carnac or ADB or whoever.

>>53858052
The Law Gods in comparison were weaker thanks to a lack of number and the natural tendency to disorder, but they made up for it and matched the Chaos Gods in their unity and organization.

Source is from Realms of Chaos and Realms of Divine Magic.

>>53858082
Probably because an entire world got destroyed so they could win, an entire canon line got retconned so they could win, and now the WH40k world is getting destroyed by them so they can win.

Then again chaos fanboys have been this way for as long as I can remember.

>chaos is caving everyone's skulls in and destroying everything constantly
>chaosfags say "good this is realistic and sensible canon"
>chaos loses once
>"wTF WHY IS GW SHAFTING CHAOS holy shit so weak i'm just gonna quit and leave wow chaos is so underpowered and incompetent holy shit"

>>53858099
>No, it says that the Warp itself will thrust forms on all beings uncaringly.

It doesn't though. It says
>For, with Chaos' final triumph, all life will decay into a seething mass of protoplasm in which lost and screaming souls float helplessly, enduring the forms thrust upon them by the uncaring Gods of Chaos.

>The Warp has some kind of sinister thing in it

Chaos.

>>53858099
>if we ignore all lore from the previous decade I win

Even if this were true (It's not) just how much of a faggot are you?

The worst part about Carnac, is that if I attempt to hide every thread he's in, I'd be hiding every single warhammer thread on the board. His prevalence and dedication would be impressive if it wasn't so annoying.

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>>53858052

>Arianka is Snow White. How is she gonna win against Nurgle?

I recall White Dwarf and a few of 1st ed WFRPG books saying that Tzeentch feared Arianka and believed she could undermine all of his plans and bring ruin on the Chaos gods. He wanted to corrupt her so he somehow got her imprisoned in a tomb, but then ran off and scattered its keys when Solkan, Arianka's brother-husband, heard of it and came to destroy Tzeentch. At some point Malal was seeking champions to either go release or destroy Arianka, but the storyline and questline were never finished or continued.

Speaking of which, bring back Malal. He was the best part of old Chaos.

>>53858082
He doesn't understand that Chaos is Worf.
Chaos is indeed built up to be a badass, and some times it gets to act it too, but it's the first to get knocked on it's ass to show how cool something else is.

>>53858198
By now I'm just going to ignore him desu. I should've done so earlier but now it's getting ridiculous, and this is apparently how he always is. Presented with arguments and sources and just plugs his ears and laughs, then when the other anons tell him to fuck off he claims he's won.

Filibuster doesn't work in online debates between autistic people over fictional universes.

>>53853784
Not to mention that the core component of 40k is always supposed to be 'your dudes'.
That's one of the primary reasons that BL's editorial position is 'everything is semi-canon'.
This is something that people should see as a GOOD thing, but apparently, there are those who need others to do their imagining for them.

>>53858206
>I recall White Dwarf and a few of 1st ed WFRPG books saying that Tzeentch feared Arianka and believed she could undermine all of his plans and bring ruin on the Chaos gods.

No, that's not canon.
I believe it originated in the non-canon Realm of Divine Magic, and regurgitated by fan magazines.
Canon Arianka is just some bitch in a box.

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Ok so basically that one guy insists that WFB shouldn't be part of 40k despite the fact that 40k was designed as encompassing WFB, because chaos is the main thing that connects WFB and 40k and that makes it too powerful compared to the gods of Order.


Fucking hell.

Is that really the core of that tard's argument? The Chaos Gods are 2stronk for Arianka, Solkan and Illuminas?


He's throwing a shitfit because he cares about THESE FUCKERS?

>>53856393
So, goal should be to kitbash together an army consisting of Squats and female Imperial Guard, accompanied by a Half-Eldar Librarian?

>>53858249
>everything is semi-canon
Finally. This. This this this.

Geedubs has never cared about the fluff or its consistency. It's not meant to be a world that makes any sense. It's always been weird and confusing. It's always about your dudes and what you believe is canon. Its inspiration from Tolkien helps here. The Silmarillion according to Chris himself may be highly inaccurate and readers are welcome to believe what they want of it in terms of canon, but it's not a big deal. Geedubs cares even less.

Just buy the minis you want and discuss your dudes and you're fine.

>>53858211
I mean ffs, one of the Nids only victories in their own codex was against chaos, because Chaos are the only faction who can take staggering losses and not get squatted.

>>53858198
Faggot, there is more than one anon arguing here against a single anon who is a total autistic liar.

The cunt is trying to pass off his facfiction as real when even when the lore is posted to disprove him.

>>53858249
Wrong.

Lauroe Goulding commented on it. 40K has a canon.

>>53858233
>Presented with arguments and sources and just plugs his ears and laughs, then when the other anons tell him to fuck off he claims he's won.

Cuntbag, I want you to point out a single source you posted in this thread. I'll wait.

>>53858293
>Geedubs has never cared about the fluff or its consistency.

You're wrong.
GW knows its fluff is a strong point, that's why they crank out so many novels and fill their books with so much of it.

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>>53857451
>>53857747
>>53857859
>>53857909
>>53857959
>>53857967
>>53858001
>>53858018
>>53858037
>>53858048
>>53858096
>>53858082
>>53858096
>>53858156
>>53858164
>>53858251
>>53858267
>>53858310
THERE HE

IS THERE HE

GOES AGAIN

LOOK

EVERYONE HE

POSTED ONCE AGAIN

>>53858358
Only 8/18 are me though.
Do you have a specific point you'd like to discuss or are you just going to keep giving me free (You)s?

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>>53858358
Funny thing is that i didn't engage any debate in this thread. I just stood in the sidelines throwing abuse at that autistic fanfic dweep.

People think that everyone that disagrees with them is the same guy. Truly, we are in dark times in teegee.

>>53858403
>some of the quote lines are missing pixels on the underlines

Nice shop.

Is Carnac the new Barneyfag?

>>53858358
Calling everyone you dislike "Carnac" doesn't make you seem clever or witty. It just makes you seem like an autistic sperglord child. Now fuck off.

>>53858428
Literally copypasta to MSpaint. Check your eyes or better yet Lets get a mod.

>>53853719
Nope, it's like that gem from the first Men in Black movie. So the 40K verse is contained in a gem in the fantasyverse, which is a planet trapped in a warp storm in the 40K verse.

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>>53858358
fuq are you talking about?

>>53858327
...Isn't he not even working for BL anymore?

>>53858355
Just because you crank out a lot of fluff, doesn't mean you care about consistency.
The Sopranos was loved by people for the big, dramatic, continuing story (for some reason), but the writers dropped and retconned shit all the damn time.
To pick just one example, Gaunt and Caine don't seem like they'd exist in the kind of universe where you only get out of Commissar school for murdering your best friend, but nobody at GW seems to have an issue with them.

>>53858355
Kind of.
The point in 40k in beign so huge in a galactic scale, and beign so vague about space mareen chapters and shit is always because you can "make your dudes".

Same reason why Aos went into "undefined and almost infinite lands", so you can have your own campaiggns, conquests, warleaders and pretend they count.

>>53852897
HOW DARE GW NOT TAKING THE DEEPEST LORE OF THEIR PLASTIC MINIATURE FIGURINES GAMES SERIOUSLY?
CAN'T THEY SEE WHAT'S AT STAKE?!

>>53857795
Not him, but way to completely ignore everything and stick with the same "durr it's just smashing 2 units into each other" argument. I'm convinced you are not even reading any of the posts.

>>53852095
Warhammer Fantasy summer campaigb from around the year 2000, set in an island called Albion. Google is your friend.

>>53858533
came here just now, and i agree.
I play Aos and right fucking the only thing they need to change is hero sniping, hopefully in a 40k 8th manner.
As for the rest, the game is incredibly solid and its has a lot more depth than it may seem at a first glance. 3" bubble is huge and I faced and won too many shitheads "hurr, this game has no strategy" with their meta list took from the net its hilarious.

also plz gib slaanesh back

hopefully next AOS campaign is centered around that.

>>53858634
AoS is deceptively tactical. People don't see any rules for flanking bonuses and scream that flanking doesn't matter in this game. When it really really does.

Again, all the tactics are there, they are just different.

>>53858705
But anon, it's just mashing your dudes together in the middle of the table.

>>53858634
I would also agree that hero sniping is an issue, but I'm not convinced the 40k method of preventing it is the solution.

Just think of the 30 conscripts with a commissar combo, and that's the type of brokenness that will become prevalent with so many armies in the game. It will make cheap chaff a requirement in a game where it's currently nice that they have their uses, but are not essential.

I'm thinking more of a universal look out sir on 2+ rule.

>>53858717
REEEEE3EEE

>>53858768
I think the problem is born mostly from whfb shooting units.
All AOS ranged weapon ranges are pretty short and usually not game changers, so they cant easily snipe heroes and if they try they have to move close to them(usually facing anything close), and so its a tactical decision, while any artillery piece with a bit of luck lets you kill most support heroes with just one hit.

A point increase would suffice, i guess.
With the new meta anyway artillery is not anymore a problem, because a lot of shit is getting deep strikes(treemen, new stormcasts)and its better to use points for more infantry screens.

i never used ranged weapons because RANGED WEAPONS ARE FOR THE WEAK

>>53858811
I like how different 40k 8 is from AoS, yet how similar they are.

Like the aura buffs are now in 40k. Those players are talking about how important they are going to be for any meta, but they are nowhere near as prevalent or important as they are in AoS. It's something AoS players are used to dealing with and positioning (there's that word again) that 40k players are learning.

>>53858874
I like in new 40k how they implemented the best bits of Aos while maintining 40k...well, 40k.
The game now playes a lot faster and better while maintining its distinctive feel.

AOS is all about "muh 3" bubble" and units dancing and circling each other until someone makes a mistake and then slaughter happens.

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>>53858811
say that to my face, runty.

>>53858902
That 3" bubble is something new players have to get used to. It's much bigger than people realize and is responsible for a lot of area denial in the game. 40k has a similar bubble but it's still only 1"

>>53853297
O.K. I'm sensing a pet peeve. Thank you for your input?

I mean, that's like, your opinion, man.

>>53857920
>I am autistic about it, sure, but I'm not wrong.
This is some pure, distilled /tg/ right here.

>>53857428
It's called having dignity.

>>53859273
>dignity
This is as confusing a complaint about GW miniatures as 'realism'.

>>53857920
>The Black Death spawned Nurgle
This is factually incorrect. Nurgle was around before that.

>>53859452
Supposedly, there was a time (and it HAD to be really fucking early in the lore, like pre-Necrons, if it ever existed) where this was true of the Chaos Gods - each of them caused or 'woken up' or something by Earth events - but even if it was true-ish once, it can't have been canon for like two decades at this point - it probably predated adding the War In Heaven, etc, to the lore.

>>53859609
No, really not quite true. What you may be thinking is those are events that made them INTERESTED IN HUMANS. But not CREATED FROM.

Big difference.

>>53859356
You can be flamboyant without looking like a Hindu signpost.

>>53859633
OH!!!
Okay, that makes a lot more sense then I've ever seen it described around here. Thanks!

>>53854048
>Oni Tau
>There was a tomb world mentioned that was lost due to being corrupted by chaos so maybe possessed Crons?
>Maybe Eldar that find a way to give their souls to Khorne/Nurgle/Tzeench for the promise of keeping them away from Slaanesh.
>Khorneate Orks dat give Gork and maybe even Mork da finga
>All those other minor xenos that aren't big enough to warrent a codex but can all be tied together by chaos

Make it happen, GW.

>>53856074
Lore says that they got destroyed by Tyranids, and then that wasn't mentioned, then they got a namedrop as one of the kinds of abhumans. Still aren't being credited with the development of early marks of power armor (in older lore designed to fight them) or Thudd Guns (which in older lore they invented, and are still around as Forge World models).

>>53858533
Age of Sigmar has the most bare bones strategy, if it even can be called that.
All he's saying is that it's a shitty version of Fantasy while pretending Fantasy didn't do what he raves about better even in as shitty an edition as 8th.

>>53856532
Why is it you nerds get so fussy and ass-flustered over nothing?

>GW mentioned that the settings are linked by the warp several times and made a couple of nods to it. It's ruined forever!

>You know what would be cool? If both 40K and fantasy shared a similar enough system that you could play armies from either system. It would also help us move Fantasy models which have not been selling recently.
>This is just like the time the peas were touching the mashed potatoes! REEEEE!

>>53857546
>40K
>Real World

What?

>>53857697
They can still be different. The Warp/Chaos is not known for being a consistent/rational place.

>>53860968
Different bases.

>>53856956
>entire galaxy almost unopposed spiritually after Slaanesh caught all but two of the Eldar gods with their pants down.
>Gork n' Mork exist and easily shrug off anything the Chaos gods can dish out in 40k, they're just too busy fighting each other most of the time to really give a zog about what the Big Four are up to

... Honestly, it seems like Eldar have the weakest gods of the setting.

>>53861304
Not true. Slaanesh is an Eldar god. They just don't want him to be their god.

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>>53853297
>it's a "desperate D*sney shill tries to convince people to abandon a tabletop rival" episode
They're really riding you interns these days, huh?

>>53861335
>Slaanesh is an Eldar god.
Come again?

I was under the impression that the Eldar simply orgied Slaanesh into existence, not that he's an Eldar god/goddess/deity.... thing!

If that's the case it would mean human slaaneshi cultists are TWICE AS HERETICAL!

Which would be fucking hilarious.

>>53860635
Fantasy is entirely different.
It's just static blocks rubbing against each other.

>>53861482
>static
Sorry your only experience was 8th.

>>53860635
Old fantasy player here. Aos definitely has strategy and tactics, they're just different, but they're there.

>>53857490
> MAH tactics
Oh yeah. The biggest cheapest blob of infantry bunking a level 4 mage, a BSB (so it's even harder to break) with two to three units of chaff charge redirectors... add cannon to snipe to taste.
OH MUCH TACTICS in 8th.
Choke on a dick. Is your army even painted? Did you buy anything for the last 4 years before your shit game flopped?

>>53858485
Anon you have a voice mail! It could be your mother

>>53861909
>8th
I couldn't buy jackshit before the game was killed while I was living in a third world country for 5 goddamn years.
Before that I had converted my 40k boyz into Fantasy boyz, and bought battle of skull pass, more boyz, a chariot, grimgor, boar chariot, and some regular goblins to use as pseudo-lothern seagard with bow and shield.
All painted. So coming back to the US and finding out the game I had moved to and enjoyed more than 40k was shotgunned to make way for a shitty 40k ripoff left me quite sour on GW.
At least they still support lotr. For the most part. Sometimes.

>>53861909
I bought 6 Stormfiends because they reminded me of robohitler from castle wolfenstein as well as 2of the verminlord models so i could make one keeper of secrets and kept one for my skaven army the conversion project never took off though

>>53862036
8th fantasy was simply awuful. No idea why you began concerting 40k orks to that shitfest.
Mind, i played fantasy for more than 20 years and I love dit back then, but it rot to a point where fun wasn't even an option.
The community was atrocious, model count required levitated each year to the point you had to paint at least a hundred fucking model to begin playing(greenskin reporting!), the meta was so strict that trying to bring non-meta models or lists would end in defeat before even beginning the game.

Tne rules were a blob that kept adding shit making the game nor more strategic nor more fun, but simply slower and slower.
at 8th peak every person i knew excuding waac tryhard switched to koW, which was a thousand leagues better(but the models...oh god, the models...).

Aos is an entirely different game. Not even close to fantasy.
Its a fun and fast game, and its a good blanket of strategy(more than 8th, at least, which wasnt hard), holding true my fav motto in tabletop gaming: easy to learn, hard to master.

just go back again to 40k. new edition seems good.

>>53862189
I converted orks for 7th, the idea of actually getting an armor save with my boyz made me give them all hand-weapon an shield.
And no, don't try and lump AoS under the same category as a good game like lotr.

>>53851827
I kind of wish there were a lot more alternate dimensions and universes mentioned, both to compliment but also act as a foil to the Warp.

Like some of those necron, eldar, or old one pocket dimensions or other scifi inspired alternate universes that said races have used and even weaponized against Chaos and such.

>>53862247
AoS is a good game
LOTR is a good game
They're both just different

>>53862495
>AoS, fixed rolls the game
>good
"Oh no sir I must say you're wrong
I must disagree, oh no sir, I must say you're wrong".

>>53856276
>>53853297
>>53851827
If Fantasy and 40k are connected, how come Slaanesh is still awake and murderfucking in 40k? Riddle me that, AoSters.

>>53862617
BIG SECRET!!!
Slaanesh has recently become deathly afraid of rats.

>>53862529
>Right because fixed rolls are all the game has to offer.
And I disagree with you, good sir. Alas we are at an impasse, huzzah!

>>53863270
It is all the game has to offer.
Put ever larger models down, roll 4+/4+, get drunk and weep about the state of your life afterwards.

>>53863378
>Those last two steps
Isn't that every game?

>>53863637
No, that's every Sunday.

>>53858504
this.

gw have directly stated in the last the the whole lost primarchs thing is so players have room to makeup and use their own. two are lost so there can be one traitor and one loyalist.

>>53861447
That is the case. Slaanesh is their strongest god and therefore he has a claim on their souls.

>>53856956
>In 40k the Chaos gods were born from conflict and disasters on Earth
Long since retconned.