/osr/ - The Old School Renaissance

Somebody post the half-rakshasa.

>>53846729
It's hard to say, I like a lot and in the same time I don't know the artists names.

Some artists I like are:
Larry Elmore
DiTerlizzi
Zak S
The guy who made ACKS core classes art
The guy who made ACKS Player's companion classes art
The guy who made S&W covers art
Scrap Princess

These are just the ones I remember right now though, there are a lo of great OSR artists

>>53846729
>Who's your favorite old-school fantasy artist?
Frazetta.
>Who's your favorite old-school D&D artist?
DiTerlizzi.
>Who's your favorite OSR artist?
Mullen.

>>>53846377
I disagree. ToB does them quite well, by giving the classes worthwhile options at all levels of play that increase their tactical depth and utility.

It's certainly better done than basically any OSR combat maneuver mechanic I've seen, where their idea of gameplay depth for fighters seems to stop at "ask the GM, lolz."

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Hot on the heels of the Fighter post, here's a very, very useful table of 1d100 Camp Followers.

I've wanted a table like this ever since I started running OSR games, and now, I finally have one.

https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/06/osr-table-of-camp-followers.html

>>53847866
There was a combat maneuver system in a game called Hyperborean Mice that I quite liked. Scoring a critical success in that game allowed you to claim a combat bonus depending on the type of weapon you were holding. Combat bonuses included bypassing armor, distracting opponents, grabs, stuns, and also weapon specific combat bonuses such as pinning someone with a blade to the throat or pinning a target to the wall with an arrow or thrown dagger. Something like that I feel could be ported to an OSR game without much fuss and might bring about a bit more excitement to combat without bogging it down.

What do you guys think of having weapon damage scale by character level? I realize that this would change the game a bit and that magic weapons already partially achieve this, but I'm looking for a way to make high-level hand-to-hand combat more immediately dangerous. So here's a preliminary scheme I was thinking of.

level 1-2 = d6 damage
level 3-4 = d8 damage
level 5-6 = d10 damage
level 7-8 = 2d6 damage
level 9-10 = 2d8 damage
level 11+ = 2d10 damage

very light weapon (dagger) = roll an extra die, drop highest
light weapon (short sword) = roll a single die
standard weapon (longsword) = roll an extra die, drop lowest
heavy weapon (greatsword) = like standard weapon, but add twice strength bonus

So if you've got a 7th level character with a longsword, he'd roll 3d6 for damage and drop the lowest die.

Using this scheme, an 11th level character with a normal longsword and no strength bonus would be inflicting almost exactly 3x as much damage as either a 1st level character in this system, or a normal longsword's d8 in the RAW.

>>53848427
Seems kind of pointless to me. You don't get much of a HP bloat in OSR games anyway.

>>53848443
On average, a monster takes 1 hit from an ordinary longsword per HD it has. Low-level monsters go down in a few hits, but high-level ones might take a dozen. Now, some of this is compensated for by the fact that high-level characters have a better chance of actually hitting their targets, but combat is still slower. Not only that, but a single sword blow starts to feel piddly at a certain point, something this would address.

Were I to do this, I think that I would reduce the rate at which to-hit scaled, if it scaled at all (maybe you'd start out with a THAC0 of 17 and it would increase in 1 point increments, rather than 2 point increments).

>>53848427
Well thought-out system, but I don't think it's very necessary in osr games. They're already pretty lethal. I'd prefer to see this in new-school games

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>>53846729
I just got my hands on pic related, what does /osr/ think about it?

>>53848427

I already do this for Fighters.

Every odd level, Including first level, get +1 to hit.

Every even level, get +1 damage.

Fast, brain dead easy. Just half your character level round down for damage, round up for to hit. Plus it's a pretty powerful bonus.

>>53849161
it's pretty good overall, if a bit more humanocentric than I prefer, but that's more personal taste than anything relating to the book's actual quality(seriously it really bugs me how 99% of all OSR settings I've seen are either human only or so human focused that non human races might as well not exist in the setting)

>>53849254
>seriously it really bugs me how 99% of all OSR settings I've seen are either human only or so human focused that non human races might as well not exist in the setting

That's how it should be, though.

>>53849272
>That's how it should be, though.
I heavily disagree, nothing necessarily wrong with humanocentric settings, but we need more diversity in setting concepts in the OSR movement

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>>53848517
>>53848427
An example of how you could go with a static to-hit and use scaling damage instead to increase the melee effectiveness of high-level characters.

>>53849199
Yeah, that achieves about the same thing, though I kind of like increasing the die size rather than just giving a bonus to damage as the range of damage isn't constantly shrinking in proportion to average damage output, and it keeps things "clean" such that the only pluses will be from strength or weapon enchantment.

>>53849272

I'm considering doing an anthro majority setting.

>>53849528
>>53849688
I guess it depends on how you view the other races from the beginning.

If you've just got various animal men or such, that're made mostly equal in all ways - mechanically and fluffwise - from the beginning, then it can work out and can make the setting feel more fantastic and diverse, though in my opinion it can also serve to numb you to it and make the truly awesome shit stand out far less, not look all that interesting by comparison at all. But, again, a bunch of animal men running around would harm this far less than some more obviously fantastic creatures or situations, let alone magic being everywhere and freely available.

Elves and dwarves and such, painted as alien and elder yet in practice ending up just being humans with pointed ears and beards, not even any more powerful or strange, are right out. Those guys should be rare.

>>53847866
Dungeon Crawl Classics has the Feat of Arms die or whatever it is for the Fighter. Been a while since I played it but IIRC it starts as a d3 at level 1 and improves in size, with a 2+ roll meaning you can both abstractly fight (inflicting damage) and concretely perform some kind of combat maneuver whose magnitude is relative to the size of the number you rolled.

>>53848427
>>53848517
The fighter's deed die in Dungeon Crawl Classics deals with this problem as well: it adds a random number to both attack and damage rolls, starting with 1d3 and ending to 1d10+4 by 10th level, ensuring that fighters pack a pretty huge punch on higher levels.

>>53844357

Go rustle up some stuff on Lombardy or Merovingian France. They got up to all kinds of goofy hijinks back then, like kings riding around with their whole court as a giant posse paying surprise visits to deadbeat nobles not paying their taxes.

>>53846729
>Who's your favorite old-school fantasy artist?
Frazetta. Is there even another one?

>Who's your favorite old-school D&D artist?
I really like Jeff Dee's cartoony art, but I have to say Tramp anyway. The PHB cover's too iconic.

>Who's your favorite OSR artist?
Rich Longmore's art on Carcosa is the best executed suite of art and the best fitted to its product in the entire OSR.

>>53849161
It's great, except that the trade rules have terrible math problems to the point of being unusable. Unfortunately.

>>53849254
>either human only or so human focused that non human races might as well not exist in the setting
>the literal nexus of the setting is a city primarily inhabited by slug men, where all others are low class

>>53849254
It's not humanocentric at all though. Animal races like the slugmen make up a huge part of the setting. Elves and dwarves aren't very common, but they shouldn't be

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>>53827219
>>53829065
>>53843206
If you rotate the little hexagons 30 degrees, the distance across the big hexagon is necessarily an odd number of little hexagons; not nice imo.

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>>53846729
>Who's your favorite old-school D&D artist?
Clyde Cauldwell

>>53849528
>we need more diversity
Dropped.

>>53849688
Get the fuck out you worthless furry degenerate. 3.5 and pathfinder are for you, not OSR. Get the hell out. I'd prefer if you drink bleach but that'll never happen. I hope on day you realize you are a fucking mentally ill piece of shit and tie the rope, but until then I'll settle for you not shitting up OSR threads which actually have rich and engaging settings due to not indulging the bullshit of the likes of you. 5e does, and now there are rules where if you want to play a tranny or a faggot the DM not only has to let you, but has to let you role play your sexuality or else he's a fucking white make and neds to be locked out of the flgs for being so problematic .

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>>53850581
>>53850617
You seem upset, anon.

Anyone got Vaginas Are Magic yet?

>>53846729
>Who's your favorite old-school fantasy artist?

Frank Frazetta

>Who's your favorite old-school D&D artist?

Dave Trampier,.followed by Erol Otus

>Who's your favorite OSR artist?

Maybe Jeremy Duncan.

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I really want some feedback on these spells. Seem like a good selection at first level? About roughly even power levels and all that?

>>53846729
Nobody says OSR to me more than Erol Otus.

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>>53850581
>>53850617

Do you think you're being funny?

>>53850797
Being able to refill spells at a turn a pop means the spells need to be a lot weaker than refilling spells once/day to stay balanced.

Based on that premise, they seem alright to me. Or at least alright enough to bother playtesting to double-check, depending on how wizard power works.

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>>53846729
>Who's your favorite old-school fantasy artist?
>Who's your favorite old-school D&D artist?
>Who's your favorite OSR artist?
Easley; pic related.

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>>53850581
>>53850617

>>53850581
lol. How embarrassing this would be for you if you were to say this anywhere you weren't anonymous.

>>53850444
>If you rotate the little hexagons 30 degrees, the distance across the big hexagon is necessarily an odd number of little hexagons; not nice imo.
Not the same anon, but what's wrong with that? Isn't it good to have an unambiguous middle hex?

How does one run a city adventure, OSR style? I haven't seen a lot of great modules that focus on having the city as the center of the players exploits.

>>53853190
Politics between trade guilds, noble houses, street/dock gangs, and any organized religions. Some creeping internal threat (traitors waiting to let in an enemy army, guilds working with gangs to murder nobles and pin the blame on a rival guild, that sort of thing,) it's easy to do. Karak Azgal, an old whfrp 2e adventure, was basically that. Lots of politics above ground in both the outer human settlement and upper dwarfhold, then the depths of the monster haunted ancient dwarven halls.

>>53853175
There's Vornheim, but you probably already know this

>>53853190
Seconding Vornheim. Even if you don't use the city as-is, the urbancrawl and generation rules are great.

>>53853190
C S I O
S
I
O

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>>53849942
Oh I know. I just need to find a good text to nick stuff from. It's a harder criteria than I'm used to dealing with.

>>53850681
A guy last thread had it.

>>53849942
>>53854384
Gregory of Tours, History of the Franks.

"When they were dead, Clovis received all their kingdom and treasures. And having killed many other kings and his nearest relatives, of whom he was jealous lest they take the kingdom from him, he extended his rule over all the Gauls. However he gathered his people together at one time, it is said, and spoke of the kinsmen whom he had himself destroyed: 'Woe to me, who have remained as a stranger among foreigners, and have none of my kinsmen to give me aid if adversity comes.' But he said this not because of grief at their death but by way of a ruse, if perchance he should be able to find some one still to kill."

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>>53854525
Hrm... Brehaut's translation is a bit dense for this, and the original text would be hell to use. I'm not sure... wait, there's a penguin translation of the Historia Francorum?

Oh this could work! The same translator also did Monmouth's History of the Kings of Britain, so I can easily mash the two together if I run out of text...

>>53854639
A katana would cut through the armor easily though

>>53854992
Hypothetically, what if the blade were only folded 997 times?

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>>53855036
It would be very painful.

Anyway, I'm writing a post about sharpness, plate armour, and atomic-bomb-building monks. It's very much in the WIP stage.

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>>53847979
I'm going to bump this for the morning crowd. /tg/'s been asking for this kind of table for a while.

Hello, fellows. Apologies for the sidetrack I'm taking.

Fa/tg/uy and /rpgm/aker here, looking for advice.

I want to try (just try) to emulate OSR in RPG Maker (no, I'm not using the RTP, going for a more realistic approach instead of the chibi jRPG aesthetic), but I'm having a dilemma.

I'm an AD&D player and have a couple of really awesome modules that I played at the time, but obviously if I use them in the software I can't sell the game once finished, but can sell the assets made.

And every idea I have of an OC module (that would allow me to profit on the game itself) is just trash compared to the golden modules of old.

How to solve this? Should I keep trying to recreate my favorite modules and profit on the assets or make my own campaign to profit upon (and then the assets would be free - one or another, I don't want to charge for game & art).

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>>53827219
>>53843206
>>53853175
> Isn't it good to have an unambiguous middle hex?
It is, but I was thinking about the arithmetic involved in computing traveling distances. And now I think the arithmetic is worse than I originally thought.

For traveling distance we want the distance between opposite sides of a hex. I'll just call that distance the "hex width".

In the first map (CHS) the width of the big hex is 25 times the width of the little hexes. If the little hexes are whole numbers, so are the big hexes.

In the second map the position of the sides of the big hex is not completely clear. If we draw lines that split the difference between the outer and inner angles, the width of the big hex is 2 × sqrt(3) times the width of the little hex.

In the 2nd map either the big or the little hexes must have irrational width. Fa/tg/uys don't like fractions, much less irrationals, so it seems like a problem.

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>>53855036
>

>>53850581
I've never seen an Americana setting get off the ground, but they always seem to plan that as a class.

>>53854135
If he recognized it, he wouldn't have asked.
>>53853190
City State of the Invincible Overlord

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>>53857395
>fold it up to almost once

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>>53850581
>>53850617
here's a (You) for your efforts

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>>53857535
Yeah, right at the end bit.

>>53856405
Rogue and other rogue-likes (or rogue-lites) are the closest things to AD&D. The "golden modules of old" are supported by your nostalgia, not their actual content. Read some modern reviews of these older modules and they'll show all the seams.

Write OC. Figure out what lessons you want to teach. Map it all out before you start. Focus on pacing. Don't get bogged down with details. Polish a hundred times. Your first 10 attempts will fail.

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So how has your Free RPG Day been? Did you pick up any books?

I picked up the DCC quick start at my FLGS, and I talked to the clerk about the event. Apparently it isn't exactly a return investment, even though people buy other things at the store during the event. They weren't very hopeful that it was going to continue. I hope that isn't the case with other stores too.

Any other OSRfags eat butter plain?

>>53858784
Local didn't order anything but still advertised it as free rpg day. Also said it cost too much and didn't generate extra revenue. Wanted DCC and VAM.

>>53850581
>>53850617
So you only like humans because they were Gary's favorite race.

Gygax was a fucking cocksucker who didn't know shit. If he lived today he'd probably run FATE where everyone died in one hit. Killing off characters to make his erect peener feel big, was the only reason he DMed. You can tell this if you read his books, he got off on being all big and powerful because it was the only way he could feel good in his dead-end fucking job and life. He was a fucking awful Dungeon Master, the Tomb of Horrors should be enough evidence of that. I don't know why anyone uses "Gygax did it" as an argument for anything. That's like "lol well Mussolini did it so it can't be that bad" while unironically slobbering at his grave. Just stop. Just fucking stop. Nothing Gygax did is special, he was just in the right place at the right time. He invented D&D which is now unequivocally one of the shittiest RPGs out there, yet still survives due to brand recognition and hordes of normies and roasties who don't know any better because D&D is the only RPG they know of.

Do not ever use Gygax in an argument again. Not only is it ethos-based bullshit which is not an argument because this is not a goddamn debate about a higher field of learning, but also he was a fucking terrible RPG player, a control-freak of a DM who pretty much singlehandedly created the meme of adversarial Dungeon Master, and sounds like a huge douchebag to boot. He did not know shit about DMing or storytelling and if you use that as a justification to cheat at your own game, retcon shit, and fudge rolls, just because YOU, a shitty dungeon master just like your worthless hero, cannot structure a game or adventure properly, then you are the lowest fucking form of human scum and I feel sorry for anyone who gets invested in any campaign you run.

I'm sorry I shit on him, I hope I didn't hurt your feelings too much.

>>53858823
>butter plain

Like... with a spoon, right off the block?

>>53858906
>He invented D&D
Now you're thinking of Arneson.
>which is now unequivocally one of the shittiest RPGs out there,
Also has nothing to do with Gygax.

>He did not know shit about DMing
The plentiful gems in the AD&D DMG disagree.

>I'm sorry
y tho.


And everything else is on point.

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>>53859048
No, I can't say I've ever eaten just butter. Even while in the back country, having lost our packs to a bear, we didn't eat the butter plain. We spread it on salted wheat thins. It was awful.

Anyway...

wut

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>>53858938
Nah, slices from a knife.

And just to be clear, it's salted butter. Unsalted butter is unpalatable.
It has merits as an ingredient, but has no business being a food or condiment.

>>53858906
>D&D which is now unequivocally one of the shittiest RPGs out there, yet still survives due to brand recognition and hordes of normies and roasties who don't know any better because D&D is the only RPG they know of.
I hate this meme

>>53859128
5e isn't unequivocally shit, but it's hella lackluster.
4e isn't actually D&D. It's the best are child of the vast are child of CHAINMAIL.
3.5 is unequivocally shit. 3e is equivocally shit, plus a chore to run well.

He's right about normalfags, mind you.

>>53859177
Sorry to continue the derail, but how's 3e better than 3.5e?

>>53858863
Did they have anything for free or any events or anything?

>>53859177
>4e isn't actually D&D. It's the best are child of the vast are child of CHAINMAIL.

What

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>>53859208
You'd better be fucking sorry. Stop replying to bait.

>>53858784
Decent. Stopped by the LGS, said hi to a few people, didn't pick up anything. I'm now eating ~6lbs of freshly picked strawberries while copying passages of the Historia Francorum into an excel table and listening to the Bloodborne OST. Life's pretty good.

Has anyone read/played Castle Zagyg: The Upper Works? Is it worth my time?

>>53858823
French fine dining trained chef here, so basically yeah. Turn everything into a sauce by mounting it with butter too.
>>53859086
>salted butter
fuck that tho

>>53859254
*bastard child of the bastard child
Sorry.

It's a remake of WotC's miniature game, which was itself loosely based on their short-lived CHANIMAIL efforts.

>>53859208
DM advice wasn't cancerous.

>>53859219

Some events but not sure if it was different than any other weekend.

>>53859336
You can legit add butter to god damn spaghettios and it tastes like something worth eating. Butter is some kind of miracle ingredient.

I dunno about plain butter straight from stick to mouth guy though. That might be too far.

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I'm thinking of popping this in game puzzle on the players in a session sometime this year. It's going to be a fill-in-the-number-to-open-the-door-to-fight-the-vampire-maiden kind of thing. One of the players sometimes DMs, and he started uses these puzzles, so no mercy. i'm wondering whether I should allow three guesses, or inflict fatal consequences after one bad guess.

>>53850681
I just did. Holy shit did I not realize that it would be hardcover. It is pretty nice for something you get on free RPG day. Overall fun book, but I am not sure if I would ever use the magic system.

>>53859914
How do this even work, in-universe? It is written on the door with a pencil next to it?

>>53860004
> How do this even work, in-universe?
Open for suggestions, but the choose-the-numbered-door and tell-it-to-the-sphinx options have been done.

>>53850797
I kinda hate how you gave fancy names and cool fluff for the 'seals' to a bunch of mechanically routine spells. I don't think 'spellpower' is as interesting as you hope it well be.

The seals are great though.
I would much prefer it is the spells had no stated mechanical effects and were JUST described via their seals.

Ignoring my unasked for fluff shit I think Protection from Hexes and Dangers is a bit of a stinker but that could be a playstyle thing- I'd prefer trying another spell to let me bypass having to make a save at all than +3 or 4 to a save.

>>53860150

I agree on the bypass a save thing, it was just easier to use spellpower for easy growth, maybe it should be changed to duration. I like that idea.

However; as for your other part I don't really understand. How can you describe a spell JUST with the seals? The seal is a purely cosmetic version of a spell, giving it a theme to the numbers so they aren't just vague mechanical effects is the idea.

Letting Wizards describe the spells with purely seals would be like what, freeform magic? I don't really understand what you mean. Unless you're saying each spell should have its own fluff, which the whole point was that you have these different fluff versions of spells so you can pick the one you like for your Wizards spellbook.

>>53860089
Hexagonal table with 6 plates )5 silver, 1 golden), each with a number of small round spheres (1, 7, 19...) The last plate (?, golden) is empty. On a second hexagonal table there is a jar full of those spheres. The door have a golden hexagonal button.

If pressed and the incorrect number of spheres is on the golden plate, said spheres shoot in all direction, causing damage as if a frag grenade. The higher the number of spheres, higher the damage (<10, 1 damage, 11~20 is 1d6, and so on).

>>53859914
That sounds terrible, but only because you sound hellbent on checkpoints.
If you /insist/ on getting those puzzles solved, read
>http://www.paperspencils.com/2011/11/30/puzzling-obstructions/

Really though, make sure there are ways to bypass the puzzle.

>>53860089
>Putting 91 doors in a room.

>>53860224
>Letting Wizards describe the spells with purely seals would be like what, freeform magic?


Maybe not entirely free form but basically yeah. I think something like your 'summoned animal covered in saddlebags' for a seal would be more interesting if power points made it go from dog-human-horse-elephant-whale size with power with all the disadvantages and advatages of being a weird bagbeast would be cooler than your treatment of the seals described as 'purely cosmetic, enjoy yer 4+Z weightpoints'

Which may not be your style, but I'm just sayin- the seals of your spells struck me as cool, the actual mechanics did not.

And that seems at odds with your intended 'no spell levels'.- shouldn't Conveyance be a big deal if you cast it with loadsapower and not just 'ho hum it's like tensers floating disk cast by a high level dude'

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>>53860608
>And that seems at odds with your intended 'no spell levels'.- shouldn't Conveyance be a big deal if you cast it with loadsapower and not just 'ho hum it's like tensers floating disk cast by a high level dude'

The idea is to make Wizard progression more linear. Instead of 'get a higher level spell slot at X level, which lets you cast both MORE and STRONGER' spells, this system instead is more about a linear upwards Wizard who just gets a few more spells and a little stronger as they go up in level, without spell levels to bog them down their spells just get better over time as they level.

I do understand what you mean now. It seems like you want a more evocative spell system, something with more specific spells instead of the generalist spells I'm making up. It's just a real bitch to balance and make an easy 'basic' wizard spell starting list if you start right out the gate with the Bagbeast spells. Also, I'm somewhat intentionally trying to make the Wizard 'boring' so it doesn't steal all the ideaspace and thunder from the other classes, you know?

I understand what you mean now though, thanks for the feedback. Maybe rare Wizard spells will have more specific and interesting spell power growths? I need to use the system in practice first, and we can see if weirdness goes from there. Thanks.

>>53860685
>Also, I'm somewhat intentionally trying to make the Wizard 'boring' so it doesn't steal all the ideaspace and thunder from the other classes, you know?

To jump off of this- how does OSR make playing a fighter not the boringest shit when the clerics get to talk to demons and ancient gods, wizards get to do magic shit, and thieves get to go for 'stealth' missions? My party has pretty much abandoned fighters and I can't say I really blame them.

>>53860823
When you run into three random encounter patrols of goblins you'll really appreciate the fighter who can cleave kill them all without expanding any resources.

>>53846729
Caldwell and Elmore, easy.

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Give them special attacks if you want to go for more high fantasy or animu fighting magic style fighters. They start with one special attack at first level.

When you declare a special attack, roll to hit an enemy and add your level. Even on a miss, you still deal 1d4 damage.

On a hit, you deal normal weapon damage + your level.

You may use your special attack once per adventure.

Encourage your players to name the special attack, and they must also scream it whenever they use it. "One Thousand Daises on a River" is an acceptable name. "Cleave" is not.

They may gain more special attacks by training with elusive masters, who are usually simple hermits or gardeners that live far away from everyone. The character has to complete a few weeks of training there at least, and will typically endure many bruises and pride-smashing insults from their master until they learn. These special attacks can do more incredible things, like blow steam that deals damage to enemies in a cone, or let the Fighter jump 30ft into the air like a trampoline. You still have to name these though.

>>53860995
>"One Thousand Daises on a River" is an acceptable name. "Cleave" is not.
>They may gain more special attacks by training with elusive masters

I'm sold- this should work pretty great with my campaign.

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>>53858906
>FATE where everyone died in one hit

trying this hard

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>>53858906

>>53860823
I like the way LotFP handled it, by making fighters the ONLY class that gets an improving attack bonus, plus unique/better combat maneuver options (parry, etc.)

Newfag here. Picked up Dungeon Crawl Classics' quickstart rules at free rpg day. I've heard a lot about DCC and I know it's one of the more popular games to come out of the OSR movement, but this is my first time reading its.

"The Funnel" seems like a really neat idea conceptually, and I know that it's what DCC is famous for, but I'm a little bit confused as to how it interacts with more long-term campaign play. I understand that you put a bunch of 0-level nobodies through the meat grinder with 2-4 characters to a player, and the survivors become the pool of potential PCs once everyone gets a level at the end of the adventure. But how do players create new characters if their PC dies after "leveled" adventuring begins? Does he take 4 unleveled commoners into the next dungeon the rest of the characters with class levels go down into?

>>53861408
Upthread some people mentioned DCC's fighter die thing too, which was pretty good and served a similar purpose.

>>53861510
The book doesn't really specify, so it's really up to your best judgment. Any of the classic methods work. Taking over for a henchman, generating a new character of arbitrary level (the game provides guidelines for wealth of new level 1 characters for example), generating a new set of funnel guys, it's all good pick your favorite.

The problem I have with OSR fighters is that their basic function doesn't feel that much different from playing Shining Force, exchanging attacks back and forth, and the mother may I options will either wind up not worth the attempt, or completely solve the encounter in my experience.

>>53860914
Sure, but that doesn't answer his question. That basic function could be handled with a fucking macro.

>>53861408
That just shifts the mechanical balance towards fighter in combat, it doesn't make the basic function of combat much more interesting, especially if those maneuevers are of the standard variety you see in OSR games.

>>53861510
Your party employs (or should) a constant retinue of unleveled commoners who help carry the treasure, pitch in against weaker enemies, check for (and, instead of the PCs, trip) traps, backstab the PCs if given a reason, and die covering retreats.

>>53861607
I mean D&D combat in general is just exchanging attacks back and forth, I'm not sure what you want out of the game.

>>53861607
>Sure, but that doesn't answer his question. That basic function could be handled with a fucking macro.

I mean if you don't find killing the shit out of monsters to not be boring then maybe the fighter is just not for you.

If you find the combat system itself boring, you could always relegate combat-related decisions to the fighter (do we fight these monsters or not) the same way magic-related decisions are relegated to the wizard (do we cast this spell or not). I dunno.

>>53861736
Only if you don't include spellcasters, then you start to see tactical depth.

>>53855372
When would you use this table? I don't generally picture a D&D party having enough of a "camp" to accrue camp followers.

>>53861944
Depends how you play. I've seen some people spend the majority of their starting wealth on hirelings so that it's 4 or 5 PCs with a train of 20 retainers following them around everywhere.

>>53861793
MU tactical depth goes about as far as, "do I trivialize this problem, or save the spell in case I /really/ need it later."
Which, come to think of it, isn't tactical depth so much as it is the MU's whole shtick.

>>53861594
>>53861614
>>53861646
I'm sorry, what is my party supposed to be doing again?

>>53862105
I'm personally not a huge fan of this playstyle but I can see the appeal of it I suppose. I feel like it would work especially well in an overland/hexcrawl campaign as opposed to a dungeon delve.

>>53862105
Hire an editor for me. Solve problems. Map the dungeon. Fight the good fight (except when the going gets tough). Headhunt for the most competent dumbasses you can get. Rig the lots when you run out of food and decide to eat each other. Make sure no one else asks that question. Et cetera.

>>53860248
>>Putting 91 doors in a room.
Okay bright guy, but the Demogorgon appears and demands that you name the sequence.

>>53862055
Mind, I only ask because it's a super fun table—but not one that strikes me as readily gameable, unlike a lot of the other content on that blog. I'm pondering if there's an organic way to work it into my next game.

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>>53862201
1, 7, 19, 37, 61, 91
6, 12, 18, 24, 30
6, 6, 6, 6, 6

s_1 = 1
s_n = s_(n-1) + 6n

alt.
s(n) = 3n^2 - 3n + 1

>>53862280
>s_n = s_(n-1) + 6n
* s_n = s_(n-1) + 6(n-1)
Sorry.

I originally started it at s_0 = 1, but that was coming out uglier for the alternate one.

>>53862235
If you set a megadungeon 4 or 5 days from the nearest town through shitty backwoods briar country you could reasonably end up with a logistics trail that involves a dozen or more people and some pack animals to set up a base camp that keeps the PCs supplied for timely dungeon delving behavior.

Figure 2 pounds of food a day per person and you're looking at 20 pounds of food just to go to the dungeon, spend a day, and come back. That kind of thing adds up quick.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gFnCwVqbWs
Haven't seen this in a while.

>>53862338
That... actually sounds kinda neat.

I can even picture something with a Demon's Souls / Dark Souls III hub-world vibe, with a growing cast of NPCs to interact with / purchase the services of whenever you retreat from the dangers of the dungeon to the temporary comfort of your little slice of civilization.

I dig that.

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Anyone have any hands-on experience with Over the Wall? I've run Dungeon Crawl Classics and LotFP as one-offs for my group to some success, but based on our other campaigns I think the folklore feeling OtW is going for is a bit more what they're into than the pulp fantasy Sword and Sorcery stuff the other two are geared towards

>>53862860
I'm a big fan of it. Tonally I find it sits somewhere between actual folklore, the Hobbit, and Zelda. Great stuff.

>>53860823
Easy solution: hand the fighter a magic item that replicates the effects of spells under a certain theme.

Fire sword lets him cast burning hands, fireball, and flaming sphere 1/day each, for instance.

>>53863365
I'm with you, but to play devil's advocate isn't that sort of the same problem? It's the fighter able to do a limited subset of the things the wizard can do while the wizard can do all the fighter can do and more in terms of options.

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>>53860823
> how does OSR make playing a fighter not the boringest shit

See:>>53847979
>>53826640

>>53861119
>>53860995
>"One Thousand Daises on a River" is an acceptable name. "Cleave" is not.
That's a pretty neat idea.

>>53861944
>>53862235

>When would you use this table? I
a) Fighters, in my system, start with them
b) You are rich fucks. Seriously, 1gp in my system is $100 bucks. A large farm produces 12gp in profit per month. My players recently found 250gp under a fucking poison statue. They're going to attract followers.
c) Any time you're near a war or a disrupted society, the displaced will congregate around safety and protection. That might be the PCs.
d) the GM (me) will describe in graphic detail what your mornings are like if you didn't set up a proper camp and slept in your armor.
c) "Exhaustion","Dampness","Cold",and "Fatigue" all take up inventory slots. Loot goes into inventory slots. Why not pay a guy a pittance to ensure you wake up each day happy, and return each day to a warm bed (sometimes, very, very warm) and a fresh petty adventure?

>>53862338
Correct. Your group's "starter" dungeon should be 1 day from town (or everyone will probably die, trust me). After that, you need to start thinking in logistics and time scales and in 10s of any given item.

>>53863731

Speaking of large, dubious sums of money... how likely are murder-hole-spelunkers to be extorted by the 1st and 2nd estate?

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>>53863821
Very. Covered here in brief, will be extensively covered in my Death and Taxes and Death Taxes post: https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/05/osr-dont-you-know-theres-war-on.html

>>53863731
>"Exhaustion","Dampness","Cold",and "Fatigue" all take up inventory slots. Loot goes into inventory slots. Why not pay a guy a pittance to ensure you wake up each day happy, and return each day to a warm bed (sometimes, very, very warm) and a fresh petty adventure?

That's a pretty rad idea actually. In a game about needing to carry loot out of holes in the ground it probably works better to put negative status effects on their inventory size than on their ability scores and screw around with all the bonuses and penalties and stuff.

>>53861772
Well, that's one thing as well, fighters aren't that good at killing shit as the hit dice start to ramp up. That 1d8+1-3(+2-6 with magic items) is going to wind up pretty damn piddly against higher level monsters, and it's often the only thing they bring to the table. Their main function in the team seems to be a being a blob of hitpoints.

>>53862082
Not necessarily. Their spells offer considerable tactical resources and options, not every problem is solvable in one, and they eventually get a ton of the bloody things.

>>53864053
That's fair enough, Fighters are blenders for low-HD monsters but they don't scale very well. I think that's why LotFP only giving bonuses to hit to Fighters or the DCC Fighter's Deed Die thingie are good ideas - they really do make fighters persistently better at FIGHTING than other classes.

>>53864085
I still say that the LotFP solution is a terrible one, since it doesn't address the underlying issue; it just hamstrings everyone else. Haven't looked at DCC yet.

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>>53863977
Yeah, stat-based effects might get them killed faster, but players are stupid fucks. Giving them status effects they literally have to haul around is awful, and it penalized low Strength characters like wizards the worst. It encourages them to take apprentices/camp followers/slaves.

>>53864053
And that's fine, in a way. Provided survivability ramps up a bit, its' OK if damage doesn't scale with enemy HP.

Plus, honestly, I don't think HD need to scale with "difficulty". 4 level 1 characters with a plan and some good tactics can kill a 10HD dragon.

4 level 1 characters with no plan and bad tactics will die to goblins.

Winning fights in OSR games often involves who has the best plan, pig bladders, rope, nails, and tactics. Rolling dice to deal damage is the emergency backup plan.

>>53864220
>Plus, honestly, I don't think HD need to scale with "difficulty". 4 level 1 characters with a plan and some good tactics can kill a 10HD dragon.
>4 level 1 characters with no plan and bad tactics will die to goblins.
>Winning fights in OSR games often involves who has the best plan, pig bladders, rope, nails, and tactics. Rolling dice to deal damage is the emergency backup plan.

Well, thank you kindly for reminding me why I got sick of OSR games. I've always liked the idea of them, but this fucking shit used as an excuse for sloppy design turns me off every time.

"Yes, it's OK that one of the options that we mandate you include as part of a party is nothing but a useless blob of hitpoints with an increasingly useless attack and the other guy gets a whole heap of useful options to can change entire encounters to the table, because you can totally just drown dragons with carefully placed condoms full of oatmeal, aren't I clever?"

I'm gonna go throw up now.

>>53864293
>one of the options that we mandate you include
Modules only started expect party compositions around... Second edition? Late first edition?
There is no mandate. Include whatever. Can have as few of anything as you would like.

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>>53864293
Your mileage may vary man. Some people eat steak with ketchup. Nothing objectively wrong with that, but I don't like it personally.

You're reading an awful lot into a very short post. Fighters should be good at fighting because it's the emergency backup option when shit goes awry. You need a guy who goes "nah, fuck it, I draw. Let's go" when the rest of the party is running.

Fighting is not the point of OSR games. Fighters can be balanced around that, and you can add all kinds of interesting things that /aren't/ about HP and Damage Per Round. But hey, look, if you'd rather complain about the general case, feel free.

Also, not to be hostile, but if you're sick of OSR games... why are you here? The internet is a big place. Either put up or shut up.

>>53864293
Dude, are you my older brother? This is exactly how he sounds when I try to sell him on OSR.

>>53864293
I'll agree that 4 1HD chumps killing 10HD foes is ridiculous, but 4 1HD chumps overcoming/bypassing 10HD foes is perfectly reasonable.

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Occultesque anon here, I'm finally free of my shitty real obligations and have time to piss away writing again.

Working on an article along with some adventure hooks since it was requested like a month ago and figured I'd tease some of them here while I work.

I'd also like to ask:

>Favorite adventures undertaken in your time running/playing in OSR games?

>>53864356
>Also, not to be hostile, but if you're sick of OSR games... why are you here? The internet is a big place. Either put up or shut up.

Because I like the basic idea of rules light fantasy RPGs, and even outside of 3.5, D&D and its derivatives dominate.

I forgot that in general, OSR is obsessed with a very particular playstyle that involves basically no hard looking at the mechanics of the game. Even the fixes proposed in this thread were mostly a small handful of abilities, as though that compares even remotely to a caster class that gets 9*9 spells a day eventually.

Also fighting may not be the "point" of OSR games, but it's a goddamn inevitability, it might as well be fun.

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>>53864378
I didn't mean "kill them by rolling dice at them".

Kill the with poisoned meat, hired allies, fireworks, broomsticks tied to ropes and hooks, diverted rivers, magic spells stolen from more powerful wizards and cast haphazardly, luring them into traps, and fire.

Rolling dice to hit them is the backup plan.

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>>53864388
> particular playstyle that involves basically no hard looking at the mechanics of the game. Even the fixes proposed in this thread were mostly a small handful of abilities, as though that compares even remotely to a caster class that gets 9*9 spells a day eventually.

Again, I think you're tilting at ghosts. Your concerns are real but a) you aren't running a game right now so whatever and b) they are fixable, can be fixed, and have been fixed by lots of people. Go check out the GLOG for a very different approach.

>>53864388
Stick to Risus and get ye gone.

>but it's a goddamn inevitability, it might as well be fun.
http://revolution21days.blogspot.com/2012/01/why-d-has-lots-of-rules-for-combat.html

>>53864407
You listed a whole bunch of backup plans.
Bribe/appease/negotiate or lure anywhere long enough to get by.

>>53864407
I think the "fighters are boring" guy's problem is that nothing makes fighters any better at this combat shenanigans stuff than anyone else, and they also aren't dramatically better at rolling dice at things than anyone else, and everyone else gets all these other options they can pick from to do cool stuff. Combat-as-war actually makes a fighter LESS useful relative to somebody with non-dice-rolling specialty skills, ironically.

>>53864435
Different anon, but what's the GLOG?

>>53864443
>http://revolution21days.blogspot.com/2012/01/why-d-has-lots-of-rules-for-combat.html

tl;dr

Combat is inevitable (this is easily seen with the fact monsters can see in the dark, whereas unless a party is all demihumans, they cannot), it should be enjoyable, seeing as it's the most time consuming and mechanically intensive part of the system. This is objective fact.

>>53864452
http://goblinpunch.blogspot.com/2016/05/the-glog.html
http://goblinpunch.blogspot.com/2016/09/the-glog-wizards.html
https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.com/2017/03/osr-glog-review.html

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>>53864443
>Bribe/appease/negotiate or lure anywhere long enough to get by.
Figured that was a given.

>>53864447
True. That's why I gave them Camp Followers, extra HP, and the ability to act as the group's emergency backup plan. It might not be perfect but it should at least be interesting.

I guess I have less of rock/paper/scissors mentality when it comes to group dynamics. Everyone can fight, but nobody /should/ fight. If you are fighting things have gone awry. Fighters are just good at dealing with that edge case (and also sorting out logicistics, warfare, and causing trouble).

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>>53864477
It's not self-shilling if it's someone else's stuff, technically. But to be fair he did ask.

>>53864472
Did we read the same article?
>In OD&D, combat isn't inherently interesting, since its intended to create a context that discourages players from engaging in combat without pissing them off if that's what they decide to do.

Also, god for-fucking-bid someone want combat in a game that claims the likes of Burroughs, Howard, Leiber, and Moorcock as influences.

>>53864477
Thanks!

I love checking out new houserules and games, it's always interesting to see how people fuck around with the old school chassis and what they prioritize.

>>53864515
Do you know what "tl;dr" means. I wasn't reading that crap.

But you often don't get a choice in combat, is my point. The players can't see in the dark and rely on a light source to get by, the critters don't, so the players will be forced into combat with monsters at some point, and often wont be able to run away since they aren't especially fast.

Also unless he specifically cites a Gygax quote stating that to be the intent, I'm just going to assume that's a post-hoc justification, of the kind OSR gamers are oh so very fond of to paint Gygax as some sort of genius who could do no design wrong.

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>>53864501
For how often you drop you GLOG homebrew here, yes. It is self-shilling. Indirectly, perhaps. And to be fair you told him to ask.

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>>53864381
I like how eerie these are. My favorites are 5, 13, and 16.

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>>53864577
Eerie is one of the vibes that OSR games generally do well.

>>53864533
If you haven't already, check out "Beyond the Wall and Other Adventures" and "Into the Odd".
I prefer Into the Odd, but Beyond the Wall seems to be better received?
>>53864545
"tl;dr" (w/ summary) is for sparing latecomers the effort or for lambast.
"tl;dr" (w/out summary) is for saying things aren't worth reading or for indirectly requesting a summary.
>since they aren't especially fast
There are rules specifically for running away, and (awkwardly enough) move speed is unimportant.

>>53864293
Fucking lol, that problem doesn't get any better in later editions of the game, "caster supremacy" is by no means an OSR exclusive thing. If you have some weird hard-on for absolute character balance play something that isn't D&D then.

>>53864738
>caster supremacy
>OSR
You're as fake as he is!

on the topic of OSR Fighters, I like the idea The Nightmares Underneath brings to it's version of the class, where Fighters deal damage even on misses, landing a successful hit instead doubles the damage you do(one of the reasons the author justifies this is he makes it explicit that Disposition, TNU's version of HP isn't one's health directly and instead represents a beings ability to avoid serious harm, one only loses actual health once Disposition is depleted, at least normally that is)

>>53864738
4e, 5e.

>>53864865
>fake

Fuck off. Some of us don't care about beancounting our way through torches in some non-sense dungeon, and instead were inspired by authors like Howard to play fantasy games.

>>53864865
The quotes I put around it were to indicate his opinion, not necessarily mine. If he seems to think it's a problem in OSR games, every other edition of D&D is out of the question.

>>53864923
Perhaps "every other" is hyperbole, 4e exists, but certainly up through 3.5/Pathfinder. Haven't played 5e so I am ignorant about that one though.

>>53864973
5e has it a bit better than 3.5 but still worse than every other edition by a mile

>>53861736
>>53861793
>>53862082

This is why you add in combat moves and monster - side mechanics.

Example; you're fighting a minotaur. The DM tells you every time you hit him he gets angrier and each time your party gets hit it deals more damage. All the sudden, it's not a simple back and forth. You should focus the minotaur, or fight any other enemies to avoid him getting more enraged.

Plus I think it's a good idea to let players give up attack for a free combat manuver, like a trip or throwing sand in their eyes. Don't even make it an attack roll, just have the enemies make a monster save if they can avoid it. Fighters get a bonus to combat manuver saves as they level.

>>53861408
>I like the way LotFP handled it, by making fighters the ONLY class that gets an improving attack bonus
With the end result that it's almost impossible for most classes to hit well-armored opponents: a 15% chance to hit a guy in plate armor with a shield (10% if you're making a missile attack). Even with a guy who is only in leather gives you a success rate of 40%.

So in B/X, if a 13th level thief is striking at a guy in plate armor with a shield, he's gonna average 1.925 damage per round with an ordinary short sword. In LotFP it's only .525, just a little over a quarter as much. Granted, you're even more unlikely to see 13th level in LotFP than in B/X, but a similar (if proportionally reduced) problem exists at lower levels. And if anything, the thief's damage in B/X is too low, not too high.

>>53865093
5e's class tiers are "pretty good" "good" "not as good" with only the ranger and a couple monk paths standing out as bad. It's about the flattest the power curve has ever been, short of 4e.

>>53864388

You'd like this magic system
>>53850797

I'm making a small item starter kit for newly made characters.
Any suggestions for essential adventuring items?

>>53858784
Got VAM and the DCC myself, wife got a d6 from Q-Workshop and Starfinder (they liked the picture of the Space Goblin).

>>53864388

Dude. Half the point of OSR is being able to change everything and homebrew hack the whole game.

Don't just complain, write your own version with the changes YOU want for the game. Because of the rules bring so simple, it's easy and great fun.

This complaining about too simple Fighters and too powerful Wizards... Has anyone of you even played old school? Who played a d4 non-armor magic-user to 9th level and above? This is the exception not the norm. You're supposed to start at 1st level you know. You can't compare this to later D&D editions.

>>53866906
>This is the exception not the norm.
I don't know. Given the number of epic level wizard player characters that got to be canonized into great heroes and villains (Melf, Mordenkainen, etc.), I'd say it's the fighters that are the exception.

I've got a fourth level fighter right now, by the way.

>>53866000
Look in the back of B4 for an example. I personally recommend the random starting equipment for LotFP. Can be converted.

>>53860823
>My party has pretty much abandoned fighters
Good luck to them once they get into a fight, then. Presumably once monsters start smacking their spells right out of their faces they'll regret not having anybody in the party more resilient than a goblin.

Of course, if they can do it successfully, why stop them? Just don't fudge in their favor and clever play will be its own reward.

>>53853190

The obvious old school answer starts with Judge's Guild's "City State of the Invincible Overlord". Check out "Vornheim" if you want to see what the new school is doing with urban adventuring.

>>53858906

Nice bait, mate.

>>53864381

Welcome back writer anon. Awesome list, very evocative and creepy.

Favorite adventures:

B1 - Ran this for a group new to RPGs. They had fun exploring Quasqueton and checking everything out.

Tower of the Stargazer - Another fun introductory, exploratory adventure.

B4 - Turned into a year-long campaign, ending in the destruction of Zargon.

How should I make up my first dungeon?

>>53864388
>a caster class that gets 9*9 spells a day eventually
You keep repeating this (or else refusing to write "81" is a more widespread tic than I think), but let's be real: you've never played an OSR caster with more than ten spells. This is a ridiculous strawman.

Does anyone have a pdf for M.C.C.?

>>53864381
>Favorite adventures undertaken in your time running/playing in OSR games?
I've never played any OSR games.
:,(

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>>53868140
Guess you gotta start running OSR games then.

>>53868201
I'm thinking about trying to get one started with my current group soon.

There's always been a bit of inertia to the idea. For the players it's not a style of game they're familiar with, but also for me every OSR system I look at seems to have some fiddly bit(s) that really bother me as a DM.

But I feel like it's about time I just said to hell with it and tried my hand at running something.

>read OD&D
>love it
>read Greyhawk
>get buttmad about the grotesque inflation in the importance of stats

The process is complete.

>>53868304
>There's always been a bit of inertia to the idea. For the players it's not a style of game they're familiar with, but also for me every OSR system I look at seems to have some fiddly bit(s) that really bother me as a DM.

Can you describe some of these fiddly bits? Maybe we know of some systems where most or all of them are absent.

>>53867550
Or Metamorphosis Alpha for that matter.

>>53864632
BtW is more heroic with less death due to faster progression and more hit dice but into the odd comes with a setting built into it that really shines. I'm trying to mash the two together for a thing.

>>53868376
>Or Metamorphosis Alpha for that matter.
Check the Trove under Gamma World. It might be in "3rd Party Stuff" or something like that.

>>53868444
Thanks dude! much obliged.

>>53868344
Vancian casting. I'm joking a little bit, but it's honestly one of the reasons I eventually stopped playing D&D, and I'd love to play an OSR system without it.

Race-as-class is a dealbreaker.

I'd try and think of more, but it's honestly been a while since I've looked at any systems in depth. I only came back to /osrg/ recently to try and work up the inspiration to actually run something.

There are also some things MISSING from OD&D and a lot of retroclones that would certainly sweeten the deal for me, e.g.: an unobtrusive system for representing characters' non-combat skills or knowledges, a good rule for how to handle combat maneuvers, etc. I'd be happy porting house rules for these kinds of things into another system, but considering how often I see them debated on here, I take it there aren't any readily agreed-upon ways to handle them.

>>53864381
>
do you have more?

>>53864381
The last sentence of 18. doesn't end. Nice stuff, though.

>>53868514
>I'm joking a little bit, but it's honestly one of the reasons I eventually stopped playing D&D, and I'd love to play an OSR system without it.
See what you think of a local Anon's take on GLOG: https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.co.nz/2017/03/osr-wizard-schools-stolen-from-goblin.html

>Inb4 that one fag accuses me of being him and shilling

>>53868514
I'd suggest looking up Wonder & Wickedness. It does some pretty neat stuff with magic.

>>53864388
Dude, are you the one who forgets this every week or so? Because damn, write a post-it and stick it to your computer or something. And fuck off.

>>53867542
Honestly the random generator and advice in the 1st adnd dmg isn't a bad place to start.

Some people are into doodling and squiggling until it feels right and then filling it in.

I tend to take a look at maps I like and mash them together, use a few random tables that fit or can be made to fit thematically, and go from there.

This is an interesting series of posts about how to make dungeons more interesting.

http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/13085/roleplaying-games/jaquaying-the-dungeon

>>53863668
>isn't that sort of the same problem? It's the fighter able to do a limited subset of the things the wizard can do while the wizard can do all the fighter can do and more in terms of options.

Absolutely. But that's the problem with D&D as a whole: everything interesting is designed as a spell. Exception-based design plus the assumption that fighters are average Joes without any real specialness to them. Now, I'm of the mind that everyone ought to be a caster in some way to get access to those fun magical abilities, and so I lean toward Tome of Battle style maneuvers for fighters (albeit less stupid naming conventions), plus everyone can learn and cast spells given enough time, effort, and levels.

But the quickest, dirtiest fix is handing out magic items, something that Gygax/Arneson likely understood, which is why D&D has tons and tons of magic items.

When I DM, I tend to let players have fairly free reign over the game, and I take the approach: "tell me what you want to do and we'll figure out how to make it happen." Fighter decides he wants to learn how to heal? Dedicate yourself at the local temple, spend a month studying with the clerics there, donate 1,000gp, and boom, you can cast cure wounds 3/day or whatever.

I'm pretty lenient about that stuff because I believe that slavish devotion to the rules produces shitty gameplay. If I think the party isn't being challenged hard enough, I'll up the difficulty of encounters and foes (the giants are pissed that their orc slaves are getting robbed, so they've sent a few bugbear lieutenants and an ogre to get them in line).

Did 4E D&D trigger OSR?

Likewise wotc clearly listened to the osr community for 5e so is 5e a valid osr game? I certainly run it as one. ( Though disappoint newfag normies who watch critical role and think their character should never die.

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>>53869464

Okay guys, I've got a problem here. It's not fully on topic, but I don't think there's anywhere else that will understand better.

I've finally been reading Playing at the World, and it's great, but the last chapter especially is just... chock full of quotes from autismal faggots exactly like the ones that are all over today. Some faglord sperging out about how Gygax can't be trusted to understand D&D because his own interpretation that you can cast each memorized spell infinity times turned out to be retarded and wrong, that Tedron guy who's practically indistinguishable from 2hu... it's just somehow incredibly demoralizing to realize that the same faggots have been shitting up gaming since literally day 1 and most likely always will.

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>>53868726
I'll have 100 adventure hooks by the time I'm done writing this blog post, but in the meantime, yeah.

http://www.occultesque.com/

>>53869464
>Did 4E D&D trigger OSR?
No. It came from a few years into 3E; the original impetus probably precedes 3.5. The specific trigger was that the OGL made avenues available to publish effectively an AD&D clone via the OGL, thus protecting it from lawsuits.

>Likewise wotc clearly listened to the osr community for 5e so is 5e a valid osr game?
No, not in and of itself, for many reasons, some enumerated by >>53869482. It's great if you like to run OSR-style with it, though; and it's mroe or less possible. It's in the same basic position as 2e, in other words.

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>>53869414
>>53867542
Or you could read the book Jaquays wrote on dungeon design.

>>53869668
That shit in the trove?

>>53869668
neat

>>53869080
We know you're not him.

He has a peculiar habit of spacing his lines.

Like this.

He quotes snippets of posts, not whole lines.
He usually posts an unrelated S&S or historical image.

>>53869690
But of course!

08 → 04 → 05 → TSR2112

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>>53869770
>He usually posts an unrelated S&S or historical image.
And don't forget the Day[9] gifs.

>>53869080
I've got to finish cross-linking that post. Expect updates shortly.

>>53868140
>>53868201
Yup, no time like the present.

>>53867543
What they're said to get on their class table is not a strawman. Fuck off. If the game includes it, it's expected to be eventually played. Go fucking jam a cactus in your ass.

>>53865984
I'll check it out.

>>53868140
Same here, I only play 5e. I think I'll try to run an OSR game soon, but I still have to choose the adventure and the game. The game needs to have a lot of classes (so I can sell it to my friends), so my options would be ACKS or GLOG, I like BtW a lot though and want to try it.

For everyone in this thread: any tips for a first time DM?

>>53869344
Fuck off and learn to handle criticism of your hobby.

I've been ignoring these threads for months, if people have been regularly bitching about this, then it's a sign that people are regularly discontented with it. Not everyone gets into these games to preserve in amber every inane idiosyncrasy of these games.

>>53870334
>Go fucking jam a cactus in your ass.
Did you get triggered?

>>53870381
>preserve in amber
If you want to pretend to be several people, you shouldn't use the same idiosyncratic phrases every time you come a-trollin'.

>>53870381
Your critique is that you don't like inherent fundamental aspects of the entire genre and all you do is complain about them on a regular basis. Get it together, remember what your preferences are, that different people have different preferences and fuck off.

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>>53870559
>>53870542

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>>53868514
>Vancian casting
Some non-vancian casting systems I found

Beyond the Wall
Wonder & Wickedness
Order of the Seven Serpents http://www.lastgaspgrimoire.com/religion-is-a-nest-of-serpents/
GLOG
Into the Odd
Dragons at Dawn
Exemplars & Eidolons

I might like some

>>53870627
>I might like some
You might like some of these*

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>>53870690
>Romanes eunt domus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbI-fDzUJXI

dead :'/

Tips for a new DM?

>>53872472 c >>53869668

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>>53846729
The guy who does Le Chaudron Chromatique and Chromatic Soup is great.

>>53873856
He has a second blog? Is Chromatic Soup just the same thing in English, or what?

>>53874556
My understanding is that Le Chaudron Chromatique is the blog and Chromatic Soup is the zine.

>>53873856
What's good about it? I can't find it in the trove so I can't check.

>>53875435
>Le Chaudron Chromatique is the blog
http://chaudronchromatique.blogspot.com/

>>53875502
I meant Chromatic Soup, but thanks for linking to the blog.

>>53868514

MAKE YOUR OWN NIGGA
READ THE THREAD

>>53875435
>>53875916
I was mainly talking about the art, which is just like his art on the blog.

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>>53872472
Tips about what specifically?

In general:
-watch videos of other games and listen to podcasts. Write down what you like and what you don't like
-Read a lot. Practice describing a movie or a scene in your own words
-Be prepared to improvise, but don't panic
-Know your system and players

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I'd like to hope that this thread is dead because most of /osr/ is off spending time with their dads.

Anyway, I'm about 1/3rd done reading the Historia Francorum and translating it into useful tables. I forgot how mad Gregory is about people being mean to bishops. Half the book seems to be "fuck around with bishops, get hit".

If anyone is interested in Patrick Stuart's take on writing well he has a new post up:
http://falsemachine.blogspot.ca/2017/06/arnold-asked-me-to-post-this.html

OSR, long time first time, I need some recommendations.

I have so many downloaded adventures, so many, but most of them are some variation of contextless bland fantasy shit without anything that pops out about them. And I'm running a hexcrawl so I need tons of fodder that the PCs can smack their heads against. They're blazing through Challenge of the Frog Idol right now.

What are your favorite weird, flavorful, mechanically complex dungeons and adventures? System doesn't matter.

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Has anyone here run Veins of the Earth, or any similar underground adventures?

>>53879356
Read anything by Jaquays yet?

You'd also like: https://www.dungeoncontest.com/store

>>53879554
I just came. Thanks Anon, this is going to be some good reading for tonight.

>>53863365
>A blunderbuss and a brace of grenadoes let him cast burning hands, fireball, and flaming sphere 1/day each, for instance.

FTFY

>>53879356
Gates of Firestorm Peak is totally awesome. It's a huge, dangerous dungeon that is connected to the Far Plane and slowly corrupting the land outside it. Worth a look!

>>53879635
Have you run it? Any suggestions? I'm going to skim it and don't want to miss anything particularly good.

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>>53879424
Veins of the Earth isn't really an adventure, per-se. It's a bestiary+cave generating system+flavour text+climbing and exploration rules.

That being said, it's absolutely fucking excellent. I'm running ideas from it as soon as my players decide to explore something suitable.

>>53879356
>What are your favorite weird, flavorful, mechanically complex dungeons and adventures?
http://blog.trilemma.com/search/label/adventure
All of these.

Has anyone actually used VotE monsters? Which ones did you find fun?


>>53879733
>http://blog.trilemma.com/search/label/adventure
How did I never know about this blog?!

>>53879356

Deep Carbon Observatory is fucking incredible. It's very idiosyncratic, and I've never actually run it[\spoiler], but it's evocative and flavorful as all hell.

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>>53879795
So I haven't used any of them, but off the top of my head, the ones that made me the most GM-tumescent were:

-Alkalion (it's an omen and a fight built into one. Such cool monster design)
-Arachnopolis Rex (excellent for arachnophobe players)
-Archeans + Atomic Bees (for when the players go /way to far down/ and need to stabilize slightly. Plus, chemistry is cool.)
-Gromagnogolem (just for the core idea of the thing)
-Fossil Vampires (instantly canonized into my setting)
-Olm (ditto)
-The Rapture (always always always run this in caving games)
-Spotlight Dogs (oh jesus wtf everyone panic)
-Titanskull Hermit Crab (feels very Dark Souls. That's it, really. It just adds flavour)
-Toraptoise (time to run again)

>>53879264
>I'd like to hope that this thread is dead because most of /osr/ is off spending time with their dads.
Wrong again! I AM the dad.

> I forgot how mad Gregory is about people being mean to bishops.
Well, he is a bishop. They hadn't really invented subtlety yet back then.

>>53879356
>mechanically complex
NEIN

But besides that, check out Dungeon of Signs.

>>53880006
Kek, I don't mean the game is complex, just the dungeon has puzzles that are more than "find hidden pressure plate".

This blog looks great though, thanks for the rec

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>>53879967
>Wrong again!
Story of my life. How're the little minions doing today?

>They hadn't really invented subtlety yet back then.
True. They invented it, lost it, and found it again later. Gregory wrote in that intermediate period. I love his style for research and for clarity but it's really, really, really basic to the modern ear. He writes like a 6th-grader doing their final essay. It's not bad, but it is boring.

I'm spoiled because I'm reading Gibbon at the same time. The contrast is jarring.

>>53879356
Good suggestions already, but I want to add most of the stuff from Dungeon of Signs. I've only run the lower level stuff (prison of the hated pretender, lone colossus, kugelberg flood) but its neat and worth a look.

>http://dungeonofsigns.blogspot.ca/p/pdfs-to-download.html

>>53880006
oh shit, didn't see >>53880054

but yeah, its a good one anyway.

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>>53870627
>Wonder & Wickedness

I like this one a lot. The Russ Nicholson art is the rum-soaked-cherry on top.

>>53879702
Yes I've run it. The party trying to make peace with the duergar and using their aid to get deeper and have some backup is not required, but it sure as hell is MUCH harder if they don't do that.
It's not too hard to run right out of the book should you choose, just stick the mountain and town somewhere, add rumors to draw them there, and find a way to tie them to the cause (since failing to stop it in time has dire consequences)

>>53880045
>How're the little minions doing today?
Frankly, having a family is the best thing that ever happened to me.

>I love his style for research and for clarity but it's really, really, really basic to the modern ear. He writes like a 6th-grader doing their final essay.
I just meant that he doesn't even try to hide his bishoply assrage over the possibility of himself being victimized (or, realistically, the fact that he was; IIRC later on he flies out in a lot of invective against Chilperik that seems entirely based on Chilperik confiscating Gregory's stuff and generally caving his personal shit in), whereas you can kinda hear him chuckling when some duke gets immolated or a king is stabbed -- despite the addition of a dutiful "murders are wrong and you will go to extra hell". I like the way he writes myself, at least it's direct and to the point. Flaubert and Balzac traumatized me.

>>53880125
http://www.necropraxis.com

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>>53880202
>hide his bishoply assrage over the possibility of himself being victimized
Yeah, it's hard to blame the guy. Turbulent times and all.

>Balzac
*reflexively makes the sign of the cross*

>Frankly, having a family is the best thing that ever happened to me.
That's a pretty good deal. Not sure I could ever do the family thing myself.

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>>53880312
>>53880202
Incidentally,

"There lived in Cambrai at this time a King called Ragnachar who was so sunk in debauchery that he could not even keep his hands off the women of his own family. He had an adviser called Farro who was given to the same filthy habits. It was said of Farro that when food, or a present, or indeed any gift was brought to the King, Ragnachar would say that it was good enough for him and his dear Farro. This situation roused their Frankish subjects to the utmost fury. Clovis gave a bribe. of golden arm-bands and sword-belts to the leudes of Ragnachar, to encourage them to call him in against their King. These ornaments looked like gold, but they were really of bronze very cleverly gilded. Clovis marched his army against Ragnachar. Ragnachar sent spies to discover the strength of the invaders. When the spies returned, he asked them just how strong the enemy was. ‘Strong enough for you and your dear Farro,’ they replied."

Fucking told.

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I'm working on a revised, expanded Summon Familiar spell list where the familiars give the magic-users that summon them flavorful abilities, sometimes with drawbacks. It's nowhere near finished, but can you all let me know what you think of what I have so far?

One of the familiars can hold items and I refer to LotFP's encumbrance rules. I'm going to change that later but for now I intend to leave it as-is so I can use it in the LotFP campaign I'm starting next week.

Anyway, thoughts appreciated. On where certain things are useless or just too good, or on what just seems silly and what you really like. Thank you.

>>53880390
>Fucking told.
Yeah, that's very similar to the sort of line the Vikings venerated and that show up in the Icelandic sagas and such.

I also like how Clovis just can't keep from fucking everyone over at all times -- he can't just bribe some guys to betray their admittedly shit lord, he has to do it with *fake bribes*.

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>>53880420
Hi Joe, (your name's still listed as the author in Properties).

For ease of printing, it might be better to change the backgrounds of the tables to white/grey, instead of grey/dark grey.

I think these are all very useful, but I've never been a huge fan of linked tables. Just mash it all together into 1 big d100 table with 3 columns: Roll - Name - Effect

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>>53880569
>I also like how Clovis just can't keep from fucking everyone over at all times -- he can't just bribe some guys to betray their admittedly shit lord, he has to do it with *fake bribes*.

"Let this be an important lesson to you; never trust me again. Oh wait, that's not a good lesson."

Anyway, halfway through book 3 now. The text is slim pickings for events up to this point, mostly due to Gregory's style. I have 60 names, 40 Ruler results, 30 Death results, and 15 Event results.

>>53880591
At least Jesse has taken to hiding his last name.

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>>53880625
It's for the best, really.

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>>53870361
Have a backup encounter for when your players fuck off instead of doing what they're supposed to be doing and have a backup encounter for the backup encounter because players breathe through their asses and ears

also, anyone have any cool/weird/makes-you-think combat systems? file related

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>>53880618
"What can these miserable Arian heretics say, when the Devil is present even at their altar? We Catholics, on the contrary, who believe in the Trinity, co-equal and all-powerful, would come to no harm even if we were to drink poison in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, one true Godhead."

Bold claims, Gregory. You're lucky nobody had any incentive to make you test your theory.

>>53881801
That pic reminds me: have you gotten to the priest who starts yelling about "should I be forbidden to avenge my grievances just because I've taken holy vows?!" and starts beating the shit out of people with a cudgel, yet?

I feel like he's a much better model for a D&D Cleric than the likes of Turpin (or Gregory himself for that matter).

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>>53881932
I don't think so, but I do remember the story. And yes, any given Frank who took holy orders is an excellent model for a cleric. My draft folder for the First Estate post is hilarious and probably needs editing.

>>53870542
>Did you get triggered?

I dunno, have you taken my advice?

You fucking fanboys couldn't seriously criticize or improve these systems if your lives depended on it.

>If you want to pretend to be several people, you shouldn't use the same idiosyncratic phrases every time you come a-trollin'.

Just checked the archive. The last instance of that phrase was earlier than month, and I recall the use being to refer to something stupid I saw on the front page (some asshat's retarded claim that 2e can't be OSR because it was different from 1e) and before that the last reference is February. So kindly fuck yourself, you fucking cretin.

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>>53881988
Anon, what's got you so riled up? Sure, you might not agree with these fellers, but there's no need to be all hostile about it. It's just a game. Games are for having fun. I'm sure we can discuss any differences like sensible folks, or possibly you and whoever you're howling at can just agree to disagree.

Now, as I understand it, we've managed to get through nearly 12 hours without this kind of bickering. You want to start that all up again? I don't know you from Adam, but your posting style makes Zak S look like St. Martin.

I know OSR is all about dungeon crawling but would it be so bad to just use generic encounter lists and weird situation rolls to generate content instead of relying on a set in stone map and encounters?

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>>53882320
Nope, that's perfectly fine. I'd recommend customizing your tables to suit your taste, but it's possible to run an entire game "procedurally".

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>>53881801
On a related note, can't you Clerics filter poison out of water?

>>53870627
BIND, hold person
CIRCLE OF PROTECTION, protection from evil
CONJURE, conjure elemental
COVENANT, geas
DEMONIC ASSASSIN, invisible stalker
GLEAM, light
MIASMA, cloudkill
PETITION, contact higher plane

CHARIOT OF AIR, fly
PYROKINESIS, fireball
ROCKSPEACH, move earth
SEDUCE WATERS, lower water, part water
SPELL OF SUBTERRAIN GULLETS, pass-wall
STORMSPEECH, control weather
TRAPPED LIGHTNING, lightning bolt
WIND BARRIER, protection from normal missiles

DEATH RAY, death spell
LICH-CRAFT, animate dead
LIFE CHANNEL
OCCULT CONSULTATION
POLTERGEIST, phantasmal forces
SOUL HARVEST
SOUL TRANSFER, magic jar
TRANSMIGRATION, reincarnation

BEWITCH, charm person
COMPREHENSION, read languages
DOMINATE
DREAD MANIFESTATION
DUST OF THE SANDMAN, sleep
FASCINATING GAZE
OBSCERATION
PLASMIC MANIPULATION, feeblemind

ASTRAL PROJECTION, esp, clairaudience, clairvoyance
CONDUIT
ETHEREAL BOUNDARY, anti-magic shell
HEKAPHAGE, dispel magic
PLASMIC KEY, knock
REALITY SHIFT, massmorph
SECOND SIGHT, detect magic
SHROUD, invisibility
mirror image was also cited for this spell-list?

FOLD SPACE
LIVING GATE
MIRROR ROAD
PORTAL, dimension door
RECALL, locate object
REVISITATION, teleport
SPACIAL COINCIDENCE
TRANSMIT BREATH, water breathing

BLOODLUST, confusion
GENOPLASM, disintegrate
INDOLENCE, slow
QUICKENING, haste
RAVENING, growth of animals
SERPENT'S KISS, neutralize poison
TOTEM, polymorph self, polymorph other
VITALIZE, stone to flesh

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>>53882389

I would just be worried about going back to old stuff before, but as far as making lists go I'm down with that.

>>53882425
>you
*your

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>>53882425
Yes they can, I suppose. "My clerics" are in a weird state, in that I wrote rules for them, but they don't actually exist in my game.

>>53882444
It's more about "thinking about what's in your list and how they relate". There are a fuckton of blogs out there to nick stuff from. I think you could run Against the Wicked City entirely using the tables he designed.

If any MS Paint Anons are in the thread, could I get a reverse-solipsist class who disbelieve in themselves?

>>53881988
At the risk of escalation,
>he uses the front page

Why do people call the magic system in Wonder & Wickedness non-vancian? To me it just seems like vancian magic with some houserules bolted on.

>>53882471
>I think you could run Against the Wicked City entirely using the tables he designed.

>But all of this is only half the equation, the player half. The other half is the GM half: how do you get them to pick up the setting and wield it like a battleaxe? (Or a warhammer.) Gary Gygax gave us the answer. And then he immediately hid it from us. The answer is the Random Encounter Table, or Wandering Monster Table, or Random Dungeon Generator, and all those other wondrous time-killers in the back of the DMG. By stocking those tables, paying some attention to the probabilities, and adding modifiers here and there, you create an immediate, accessible method for GMs to understand your setting in the most visceral way possible: by co-creating it with you. They only have to read the setting bits they've generated, and they have a story and an adventure. -Ken Hite

>>53882532
That book is a lot of things, but I've never called in non-Vancian.
No idea why >>53869122 and >>53870627 listed it.
Though to be fair, the rest of >>53870627 are non-Vancian.

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>>53882604
Yeah yeah, I know the quote man. I just mean /entirely/ using the tables. Like, no prep work. Don't even read the tables. Just print them, stack them, index them by title, and start rolling. It's a rare thing.

>>53882626
> I just mean /entirely/ using the tables.
I knew what you meant.
The quote is still relevant.

>It's a rare thing.
Because you need experience to pull it off.
Because it's more taxing than preparing.
Because the end result is shoddier.

>>53882043
>Anon, what's got you so riled up?

I'm not entirely sure. The general feet digging unwillingness to ever admit fault systems in generals like this is something I find extremely frustrating, and I feel it fair to be rude to someone when they've told me to fuck off.

>>53882497
>he uses the front page

Do you not? What kind of newfaggotry is this. I bet you don't even post with frames or use the legacy captcha.

>>53868514
>Race-as-class is a dealbreaker.

Is it a dealbreaker to have races that are classes or a dealbreaker to have classes that must be exclusively human? Because you could always just drop elves dwarves and halflings as player options and stick to the regular human classes if the former.

>>53883935
Elves are just fighter/magic-users with a few racial powers. Just drop the infravision and shit, and you're good to go. You don't even have to compensate for what they're losing, as elves are overpowered in the RAW.

Dwarves and Halflings could be refluffed too, but they're basically just fighters with better saving throws and some racial powers, so there doesn't seem to be an important niche left unfilled without them, and refluffing them is a bit more challenging.

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I know a lot of people really enjoy the appeal of the old 'wizard with 1 hp' thing here at /osrg/, but personally I really want to introduce a house rule that says that even after con modifiers; your minimum HP is always 2.

This way, no matter what, the first time you get hit during your adventuring career it's not a guaranteed death. There's still a 1 in 6 chance you'll survive that first blow. It also means that environmental things that do a little damage, like acid or insect swarms or something similar, can't kill you the moment you step into them or activate them, and you still have some kind of chance to react so it doesn't feel as cheap.

Thoughts on this?

>>53884742
I like it.

>>53884742
Could also have a rule where you get an automatic save vs. death to live with 1 HP if you're going to be reduced to 0 HP by anything. Similar goal, different method.

>>53885592
But that might actually be better than having 2 HP.

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Be honest with me here, how many in the /osr/ general ACTUALLY play OSR as its intended (dungeon crawling, gold recovered = experience, etc) or how many of you just use the super simplistic rules to run really lite regular adventure based D&D?

I'm not even necessarily saying that's a bad thing, I just want to know what company I'm in.

>>53885715
I do more the former with a bit of the latter. My party gets to other shenanigans than dungeon crawling as well, and I use the carousing rule where you don't get experience for gold until you spend it to partying or research - but on the other hand, you get a decent amount of experience from monsters, class-based stuff, and the occasional story award.

So maybe it's actually more the latter.

>>53885715
I try to do it as much as intended, but it's modulated a bit. I'd like to know if anyone here *doesn't* use gp=xp though. That's one of my favorite mechanics.

>>53884742
>Thoughts on this?
Plenty of people do max hit points at 1st level (that's not a thing that started with 3e), so increasing magic-user hit points by an average of .25 points is hardly gonna break the game.

>>53885592
Either that or there should be some amount of negative hit points. Really, I like there to be an intermediate stage between "dead" and "up and fighting".

>>53885854
I tend to give out xp arbitrarily.

>>53885715
I like dungeons and looting shinies more than social or wilderness adventures. Usually with smaller dungeons, though, and not megadungeon stuff.

>>53864388
>Because I like the basic idea of rules light fantasy

Adding more rules to it seems counter intuitive then.

>gets 9*9 spells a day eventually

Then do what 4E did and give all classes spells/powers and identical spell progression . Then enjoy your tactical wargame I guess ?

>>53885854
I like the idea of GP=XP, but I still don't quite understand how it's supposed to work in every situation...

Do you get XP equal to the GP value of everything you loot from the dungeon, or just the actual coinage? If you loot something like a piece of furniture and then sell it in town, do you get XP for that? What about things that are less explicitly treasure, like the bones of a dragon you've killed—are those worth XP, sold or unsold? What if you loot a magic item that doesn't have a set GP value? Do you get XP just for looting it, or do you have to sell it to get XP = whatever you manage to sell it for?

Asthetics wise, I really love the idea of alternate spell books. Spells being carved on a sword hilt or rat skulls being a classic, or written on individual pieces of paper rolled up in metal tubes, or tattoo'd onto the skin.

However, when it comes to a generic spellbook they have many practical weaknesses- like fire, water, getting cut in half and so on that the other forms don't. I sort of dislike the idea of giving Wizards a mechanical incentive for kitting out their character, so maybe just assume every spell book or spell book proxy is not weak to fire or water? Maybe just remove tattoos as possible so at least you can disarm the wizard, but otherwise treat each as not especially fragile? Make them all start with a spellbook but let them engrave swords and shit later during downtime amd spend gold on it? What?

>>53886934
GP = XP typically carries the notion that simply getting the loot out of the dungeon will be a challenge. A piece of furniture is hard to carry, a whole bunch of dragon bones even more so - if the party manages to get them out of there and also find someone willing to sell them, then they should obviously be awarded for it.

>>53886938
One of the reasons books are ideal ways to record information is that they are the most space-efficient way to do it. If a spell is a page worth of writing per level then have fun tattooing the fireball spell on your arm. Probably it won't even fit. So anyone seeking a more resilient method of recording spells is going to have to make a compromise that they can't store them all in one place the way somebody with a book can.

>>53886997
If I can fit a spell on an index card, a highly competent Mu can fit it on their foreskin.

>>53887836
>>53886997
Vancian spells fill dozens of pages.

>>53887853
https://youtu.be/5Yt9moC-peM

>>53886997

In game terms I'd want to simplify it, but it's not a bad idea.

>Magician requires a written source to prepare spells.
>Spellbooks take up 1 encumbrance slot but can hold any number of spells. Vunerable to water and fire. This includes any written paper aid, such as a bundle of scrolls, origami animals that unwrap info spells, etc.
>Spell Inscriptions can be put on any other item that is more durable, but the item can only hold a single spell regardless of its size.
>Daggers, flasks, gauntlets, helmets, braclets, puzzle boxes, etc Can hold one spell. But longswords, breastplates, and dragon skulls can only hold one as well.

Pretty generic rule but I like it.

>>53887964
I'd say you could reasonably make it hold spells related to its size. So like if you had a suit of armor that took 4 inventory slots maybe it could hold 4 levels worth of spells. (Maybe armor isn't the best example of a safe place to put your spells because it's designed to be hit by dangerous objects constantly but you get the idea.)

That way you leverage the existing system (objects have different sizes so you might as well use them) and avoid suspension of disbelief problems (why can't I fit more spells on this giant shield than on that tiny dagger?).

>>53884742
>Thoughts on this?
I'd be fine with it, because it's almost entirely irrelevant. Odds are overwhelming that you'll die to the first blow anyhow, it doesn't materially change your resilience at all. Your way of thinking about it is completely a desktop construct, not informed by play.

With that in mind, I'd be fine with you making whatever ritual ablutions you need to to feel comfortable at the table, running the game.

>>53888041

At first I thought against that idea, not wanting to add in that option, but now that I think about it I think it's totally fine. Fun even. The Wizard who doesn't even carry a weapon, just a tower shield with all his spells written on the back. The Wizard who enchanted his horse so it has spells written along its body, or that one guy who you know has a spell written along his ten foot pole he poke around the dungeon with. Anything for some fun flavor.

Oh, amd whenever these items are destroyed, they give off cantrip-level magic effects to nearby items and characters. When your dagger inscribed with cone of cold is broken, the nearby puddle of water gets frozen over, or the rain becomes hail for but a moment.

>>53885715
I run what I think isn't mainstream OSR because it's too hardcore: I encourage the players to think of their PCs as troops in a wargame, as pawns, not as characters and personal representations, and I run the game as a small-scale tactical skirmish game with a high degree of depth.

I'm much closer to your option A than B, though, of course. I'm okay with the other guys being here, but if their butthurt about high lethality and OSR style ruled the thread instead of being an occasional annoyance (I say that in their defense, you understand; whining about it is fairly rare, in spite of the persistent shitposter in this particular thread) I wouldn't be here myself.

>>53886934
>Do you get XP equal to the GP value of everything you loot from the dungeon
IMO yes. Looting a chair is probably retarded in practice, though, since you won't get more than a couple coppers for it; if it's worth anything significant I'll have listed it as treasure. Dragon parts are a different matter; I'd regard those primarily as magical reagents, but offhand I'd definitely allow players to scavenge dragon parts to sell to wizards, alchemists, armorers and so on. If I had players likely to do it, I'd probably gin up a table of values for sale/use in magic items, and try to make sure it came out to a fraction (say half to one-fourth) for the value of a subdued dragon. (One of the nice things about OD&D is that as fragmentary as it is, there seems to be a ready point of comparison for almost everything.)

I would not give out XP for finding magic items, and every edition that I can remember offhand mentioning the idea does so explicitly to disavow it as bad practice. If one was sold I might give out XP equivalent to the sale value, but probably not since selling your magic items is pretty stupid in most cases.

>>53888678
>If one was sold I might give out XP equivalent to the sale value, but probably not since selling your magic items is pretty stupid in most cases.

I think games that require players to spend money on training to get XP (or at least to convert loot into coins by selling it to get XP) might have it right in this respect. You CAN sell your magic item to convert it into experience, but probably you shouldn't.

Tell me, osr anons, what's your opinion on alignment? How do you use it (if you use it at all)?

>>53889749
Make the Law-Chaos axis about your allegiance to great cosmic powers rather than personality test. Only use the Good-Evil axis if your players and games aren't prone to great big morality questions.

>>53881009
Wait, so under that system, every weapon does the exact same amount of damage?

>>53889749
One-axis alignment is great. Two-axis is a catastrophe, and very typical of mid-late Gygax's habit of adding complexity that he hadn't playtested.

>>53890005
Maybe it's just me, but removing the good-evil axis just ends up with all the players rolling up amoral mercenary PCs that'd slit their mothers' throats for a bit of gold. Basically going straight to evil. I don't much care for that, but then, I'm also told that's kind of an important point of OSR too.

>>53890063
butthatswrong.jpg

In one-axis, Lawful approximates Good and Chaotic even more closely approximates Evil, c.f. Evil High Priests. The quick and dirty way I like to explain it to players is, you can be Lawful and still be an asshole, but you don't *believe* in being an asshole as a matter of principle. On the other hand, if you're Chaotic you're more or less guaranteed to be an asshole.

Alternatively, think of it in the cosmic/meta way: Lawful and Chaotic are the Good Guys and Baddies respectively, used to determine what kinds of troops you get, and Neutral are the mercenaries who will side with either for pay.

(Finally, to take you far too literally, slitting your mother's throat for a bit of gold is a highly Chaotic act and will presumably provoke alignment change. If you're the referee and don't do that, then it's on you; you're dropping the ball, not the game)

>>53889892

Read it again. Monsters still have regular HP and Hit Dice, only the players use tiles. You can make monsters much more distinct from each other then just weapon damage- like to hit, morale, ac, special moves, etc.

>>53886086
>Adding more rules to it seems counter intuitive then.

It wouldn't be any more rules than are already in the game. There's an entire chapter of extra rules labeled spells.

>Then do what 4E did and give all classes spells/powers and identical spell progression . Then enjoy your tactical wargame I guess ?

I don't take issue with the "tactical" part, because tactical depth is definitely something OSR games are seriously lacking (fighters are literally just blobs of hitpoints with a shitty attack), but the wargame part, fucking seriously? "If we give the fighters useful options, you might as well just play a wargame."

>>53889749
no alignment > law/chaos > law/chaos - good/evil

I feel alignments were something cribbed out of Three Hearts and Three Lions without good reason that don't fit the overall tone of the game, and basically necessitate that you include some sort of Manichean or Zoroastrian style cosmic struggle.

>>53890574
What's wrong with a cosmic struggle, though?

>>53890421
I get that, but still implies a dagger stab would do as much damage as a dragon stomping you.

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My theory is the Law & Chaos make more sense for a setting based on the ancient/classical world, while Good & Evil make more sense for a setting based on the medieval world.

>>53890624
Nothing really. It's just not to my tastes, and it sort of pigeon-holes the late game a bit.

>>53891027
The Greco-Roman pantheon wasn't really built around a grand cosmic struggle, they were just sort of there, and they were a defining feature of the classical period until the late portion of it when you started to see dualistic cults come into the fore.

The law/chaos struggle comes very much from a piece of medieval fantasy, specifically Three Hearts and Three Lions, in which a catholic knight (who would wind up being the basis for the paladin class) struggles against the forces of chaos to get his magic sword, they even strongly imply that Jesus' appearance in the world was a big boon for law that pushed chaos back further than it had ever been.

>>53891027
I want something based on the medieval Wheel of Fortune. It's a cool idea and it could have both political and game-mechanical impact in a fantasy medieval setting.

>>53891360
The Titanomachy, Gigantomachy and Zeus's battle with Typhon were all grand cosmic struggles.