Warhammer 40,000 General /40kg/

First for the Dark Prince, She Who Thirsts!

First for nu-marines a shit.

Reposting because ded thred

Some math stuff I found interesting

You can get 3.25 normal (non conscript) guardsmen for each tactical marine. Firing at identical targets the guardsmen will outdamage the marine against nearly everything by a moderate amount, which doesn't really represent their fragility.

If instead we pit the 1 tactical marine against 3.25 guardsmen, we see a very interesting outcome.

The tactical marine will inflict more wounds on the 3 guardsmen than they will on him, per point, especially if both the marine and guardsmen are in cover.

However, the guardsmen will overtake the marine if they get FRFSRF (and they will beat the marine by about the same amount that the marine originally beat them by)


Also intercessors versus tacticals is a lot less of a shitfest than I thought it would be.

1 tactical squad will beat 1 intercessor squad pretty squarely.

But you can get 3 intercessor squads for the price of 2 heavy bolter + plasma gun tactical squads.

The intercessors will have 30 wounds and do about 5 unsaved wounds against MEQ

The tacticals will have 20 wounds and do about 6.36 unsaved wounds against MEQ

10 wounds versus 1.36 damage? That's a legitimate choice to make.

Also -1 AP makes a bigger difference than I would have thought when its on a rapid fire gun.

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2k List I'm thinking of building up to.

Any thoughts on this?

Too little anti-big creature?

Not enough ground troops?

Units that should be dropped?

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4th for Sisters a QT!

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My tweak of that cool Eldar guy's list. Any thoughts?

>>53825924
Shit, you mean Primaris aren't as shit as people made them out to be?

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When will they make an actual model for biker bosses

>>53825881
Are Assault Terminators any good this edition? I wanna break out my Deathwing Knights.

>>53825979
>thinking orks will get actual kits for any of their characters
>ever
inb4 it's the conversion faction lmao

What the fuck should I do with my Tzeentch daemons? I bought them in 5th when the horrors were metal, then I bought of the plastics when they came out. They were fun. Then 7th happened and I couldn't use them without being called a cheese monger, so I stopped.

I was hoping that they'd go back to how the used to be with 8th, but instead they're fucking trash. What the fuck should I do? Keep in mind that I didn't jump on the Blue/Brim horror hype, train because I thought it was fucking retarded. I'm just sitting on ~40 horrors, a bunch of flamers, about 5 screamers, 3 princes, and an old metal lord of change.

>>53825951

Looks pretty solid (I posted the original list). Make sure when playing it to doom targets judiciously.

>>53826032
They seem fine to me. Why don't you just run a couple games with them and see if you like them?

>>53825975

They're about on the same level as normal marines.

Hellblasters in particular cost the exact same per model as a missile launcher devastator except just flat out have +1W and don't have a heavy weapons movement penalty.

Inceptors are probably the only duds so far just due to their cost. In reality they're attack bikes that give up 2 wounds and some movement to have an entire extra heavy bolter and ignore the move and fire penalty (which bikes do not do natively anymore).

If they were like 65 points instead of 75, they would be alright.

>>53825881
is there a rough guide for how much power level is equivalent to points? eg. 30 Power = 1000 Points, or something like that.

>>53826071
100 power is roughly analogous to 2000 points.

>>53826032
Pinks are fine, even without the blues/brims to pop out of them. They're the only flavor to have a real ranged attack, and they're still 4++ troops which have a 1/3rd chance each turn of dealing mortal wounds to something nearby.

>>53826071

50 power is about 1000 points, 1 power is roughly 20 points.

>>53826071

1PL is roughly 20pts

50PL is ~1000pts +/- 150pts

>>53825975
lack of special weapons means they're going to struggle against anything tougher than a regular dude

maybe the retarded vehicles will cover that deficiency

Are orcs the new WAACfag faction?

>>53825975
They're not "shit" but they're still worse than tacticals. He's not accounting for that fact that multi-damage weapons strip the Intercessors of their benefits and become far more cost-effective, nor that more bodies is better for holding objectives now, nor that there are many many targets in this game other than MEQs against which those tactical squads are getting even better disparity in damage over the Intercessors.

>>53826099
>>53826098
>>53826088
Cheers

Can ork units move after being "Da Jumped"?

>>53826137
No, Movement occurs in the Movement phase, Da Jump is a psychic power that occurs in the Psychic phase which comes after.

>>53826116
Threadly reminder that there's nothing wrong with making strong lists.

>>53826137
The psychic phase is after the movement phase

>>53826071
It's all over the fucking place depending on what squad you're looking at. Power level is a bad meme, and GW should feel bad for ever introducing it.

>>53826147
>>53826150
Oh, derped. Thanks.

>>53826137
nein

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Working on my Thousand Sons and realized that no matter how many minis I paint, it will never fill the loneliness inside me.

>>53826158
Idgaf, I'm gonna play super casual games with the shit I own anyway, and it's easier than mucking around with points.

>>53826116
IG supposedly is, though people are rating both Nids and Orks as very strong competitors, too.

>>53826058

What seems fine about them? The only thing they have going for them is a 4++ save like they had in 5th.

>>53826092
I don't consider a lasgun to be anything remotely comparable to a "real ranged attack" and again, they're durable in that they have a 50% chance to ignore anything but still die in droves to massed fire in an edition of hordes.

>>53826111

This is a fair statement as tacticals are pretty flexible now that a single split firing lascannon/missile launcher can decently threaten a vehicle.

>>53826118

This is a fair assessment and I wouldn't call tacticals obsolete by any means even under ideal circumstances, although if someone is shooting intercessors with a multi damage gun they're almost certainly trading points inefficiently with the exception of like, autocannon HWTs I think.

With how most all comers lists will be chock full of D1 weapons in the hopes of mitigating hordes, I think intercessors will at least prove viable if not always optimal.

>>53826168
Looking good, but their helmets seem a little barren.

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People who can paint well, how would you feel playing against someone who paints like this?

I don't enjoy painting and it shows in the quality of my work, but I don't want to play with grey plastic or black primed armies.

>>53826168
Well that's just silly, it's well known it takes 1850 points to cure loneliness.

Unless you live too far from a FLGS.

>>53826188
looks good pal-o- should be fine.

>>53826188
It's not grey

>>53826188

Looks fine to me m80

>>53826188
Looks fine. Not mind-blowing or anything but perfectly acceptable.

>>53826188
That's totally passable. Not everyone has to be super creative to play.

>>53826188
No one cares as long as its painted, you are much better than the majority of people so keep at it to get better.

Hokay, so. Playing against Blood Angels soon, at 100 power. We both narratively know that we're facing the other, as we're fighting for the fate of a planet. Which of these looks better?

+ Battalion +
Overlord: 7
Overlord: 7
10 Immortals: 8
20 Warriors: 12
20 Warriors: 12
Triarch Stalker: 8
2 Destroyers: 6
2 Destroyers: 6

+ Spearhead +
Cryptek: 6
Annihilation Barge: 7
Annihilation Barge: 7
Doomsday Ark: 10
Canoptek Spyder: 4

OR

+ Battalion +
Cryptek: 6
Overlord: 7
Overlord: 7
20 Warriors: 12
20 Warriors: 12
10 Immortals: 8
10 Immortals: 8
Doomsday Ark: 10

+ Flyer Wing +
Doom Scythe: 10
Doom Scythe: 10
Doom Scythe: 10

>>53826180
>What seems fine about them?

Assault weapons are nice for mobility, and they've got a decent level of shooting. Being able to smite 1/3 of the time also means they put out some sporadic extra damage.

They aren't as crazy cheap/efficient as a blob of brimstones with a Blue horror leading them might be, but I think they're alright as far as basic infantry go. The smaller ones could stand to be a bit more expensive, and pinks could stand to be a bit cheaper.

>>53826188
I don't paint that well, but going against a painted army is always nice, no matter the quality. When your army is all together it looks nice either way, even if each unit isn't perfect. A lot of people at my LGS/GW play half-unpainted, so a fully painted army is really appreciated.

>>53826188
That's easily tabletop standard. Not a masterpiece, but you've got 3 colors and everything looks alright.

It's about how well most of my models are painted though, so I might be biased.

Asked this in the last thread, didn't realize there was a new one. Can drop pods not carry dreadnoughts anymore?

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>>53826172
>tfw I lived long enough to see the day that addition is considered difficult to bother with and people would rather play a shit game than spend 3 minutes with a calculator

>>53826184
Yeah, I'm trying to figure out if I can use Tamiya tape to paint the yellow lines on them, or maybe just a small layer brush and a steady hand.
>>53826196
I live an hour's drive on the highway from a LGS. At least I'll be up there tomorrow night for the midnight release.

>>53826232

Unfortunately they cannot.

>>53826118

Actually the difference in damage of intercessors versus tacticals when comparing MEQ vs GEQ stays about the same, with 2 tactical squads doing about 15.55 against guardsmen and intercessors doing about 13.33.

Tacticals pull ahead against stuff that only their special weapons can reliably hurt, which makes sense t b h.

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Post a unit that is the best counter to another army. Pic related, it's against demons

>>53826188
That looks fine! A painted army always looks good, it just adds so much to the mood and my enjoyment of the game.

>>53826239
You sound like a fun guy

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R8 my Kaptin

>>53826188
That's a perfectly serviceable tabletop standard, don't know anyone who wouldn't be ok playing against it.

>>53826263

He seems like he has an IQ that is above that of mayonnaise - what with his ability to do basic math.

>>53826216

At 10ppm, though? What are 100pts worth of pinks actually going do? They don't actually accomplish anything. Most basic infantry get either special weapons or swarm tactics. Pinks get neither. At best, they get a 1/3 chance of a mortal wound IF they're in range and only at the closest unit. Also, what the shit is with Heralds boosting their S?

>>53826005
Deathwing knights are amazing, i think the mace or flail has wounds carry over to the next model, either way they put out lots of damage and have 3+ invuln

>>53826269
9/10 dakka

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>>53826232
I did not know this. It is a bad day for Castidian Fellfall and his trusty drop pod. Does this mean Ironclads are less viable?

What is the most broken unit in the game right now?.
On their own without extras like a commissar preventing massive Battleshock damage

>>53826293
Brimstone Horrors

>>53826293

I don't know if they're #1, but I will confidently put Scions in the top 5 broken units

>>53826278
That 1/3 mortal wound basically is their special weapon. The rest of their points are wrapped up in being durable with their 4+ save and being a guardsmen with an assault weapon.

Heralds boosting strength is probably meant to be a general benefit that could feasibly apply to all Horrors as well as things like Screamers. If you want an HQ to boost them, a Prince is the way to go

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>>53826252
Ironclad dreads used to demolish Guard tank armies, not sure how they do now. Could be a good Distraction Carnifex.

>>53826232
>>53826242
>>53826288
there will be a new plastic dreadnought drop pod soon

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I need help /tg/

This MIGHT be the list I use, as I posted last thread. This army is for fun but I still want to be mildly viable. Just to learn 8th and have a 1st day experience.

Problem: I need to assemble Celestine & Ven Dread before Saturday. I don't want to rush those models. And as another anon said, I have way to much anti-infantry too with the marine squad.

All I have for Imperium that is ready to go or mildly viable:

>Unpainted Gaunts Ghosts
>Vindicare
>Veteran Sniper Squad
>Demolisher & Hellhound
>10 Stormtroopers
>Chimera
>14 Seraphim that need to be based
>tons of guard HWT that were going to renegades but can be repurposed

Should I try to get Celestine ready to go, or should I abandon my sisters until they are ready, in favor of AM?

>>53826323

Interesting - source?

>>53826269
9/10 drill and dakka, good to see those grots!

>>53826274
I can understand the granularity of points being a good thing if you care about playing competitively, but I kinda can't be bothered flicking through rulebooks working out how much each upgrade my models have is worth. Personally, I'd rather just ballpark it with power levels and have something I can throw together without worrying about the details.

I mean, functionally the maths is the same, it just means the listbuilding is less fiddly.

>>53826269
git/boy

>>53826269
unpainted/10

>>53826323
Hmmm, depending on how big it is, I might just keep using my regular drop pad. GW is getting enough of my money as it is.

>>53826239
Well we live in a age when almost everyone carries a magical slab of plastic and glass that holds (almost) all human knowledge within it but is mainly used for some vain shit.

>>53826293
>>53826298
This^

You can easily take over 500 brimstones in a 2000pt game, inside of three Battalions. How do you even bring enough dakka to kill that many 4++ models? They don't even need to hurt you, just out-number you on objectives.

>>53826263
I don't consider playing an inherently unbalanced game just to save a couple minutes of addition to be "fun."
If you don't want to do it by hand, just wait for the list builders to be updated, spend a little time making some big boy lists, and bring them with you like a normal person.

Has anyone seen a Gangs of Commorragh box recently? I'm annoyed that I didn't pick up the dusty copy from my FLGS a month ago and I don't know if GW is going to keep producing it.

>>53826338

Weirdly enough I find that units with OPTIONS that are overcosted in points are just fine in power and options that are undercosted in points also tend to have their power brought up a bit

See anything with a flamer.

>>53826368
And while they're just sitting there, you have invincible character psykers smiting everything.

>>53826368

By taking more conscripts.

>>53826335
>>53826356
FW doesn't sell lucius pattern anymore and with the new primaris dreadnought a plastic pod will be released alongside it

>>53826379
Well points are 100% guaranteed to change in the future. That was the point of the whole system. And what I've seen from other games the first balance patch after a major update is always heavy.

>>53826368
Snipers?

>>53826378
they're still making it, they did a restock and it's on the GW webstore, you can order one if you want

don't know how many more runs they'll make of it

>>53826391
Conscripts are 3ppm, Brims are 2ppm, and have a 4++ the Conscripts lack. Brims have much worse offensive ability, but can more easily flood the battlefield and are more difficult to kill due to their invuln.

>>53826338
some power levels are fucked, some points are fucked

both systems have the advantages and disadvantages

EG traitor knights are pure filth in powerlevel
Where as the lord of skulls is only viable in points

>>53826415
How would snipers help? I suppose Vindicare ignores Invuln, but even killing a Brim every turn he won't earn himself back.

>>53826391

Do you know how to do math? You cannot take more 3 pt models than 2 pt models.

>>53826356
but the little drop pod can't carry dreads

>>53826377
The power levels are meant for narrative games , for which the missions are often asymmetric with an attacker and defender . Makes sense not to both balancing out the forces perfectly before you play an unbalanced scenario with them.

>>53826168

All is dust... All is dust...

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Local store is going infantry spam (we have alot of WAAC fags) i want to do the complete opposite to show them. How fucked am i?

>>53826279
flails kick out damage which can carry over between models in a unit

>>53826435
>A full grown man is S3
>A knee high living flame is S3
WHY DO I BOTHER GOING TO THE GYM IF EVEN TZEENTCH CAN OUTLIFT ME

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>>53826361
I use it to look at my saved pictures of painted plastic men. Some days, the fact that those men are not all painted is the only reason I don't do something exceedingly stupid. It's funny what you find inspiration in. Post your favorite picture of your minis, painted, unpainted, or converted!

>>53826158
power level is no more unbalanced than the competitive points


with ass mad tourney players testing and helping GW on points you ended up with shit like 65 points for a nuobliterator which only has 2 24" shots, they fucked up real bad with the rules for these guys.

OVERALL, the edition is fine, the game has always been a beer and pretzel game, just don't pretend paying 3 points for your tiny dick means it's balanced.

>>53826477
Brims are S1.

Are the archon's retinue any good?

>>53826475
you're fucked, on average one gatling cannon kills 7 guardsmen per turn

With six that means you're killing 42

This isn't the list to counter guard spam

>>53826475
Pass on Stormspears, go with the other one for volume of fire. Similarly, you probably want to pass on the reaper chainswords, since the feet will do better against infantry. If anything, take additional avenger gatlings.

The battlecannon will also be a safer bet than the thermal cannon while still having some anti-tank potential.

If possible, also try and squeeze out some points for a few extra models to hold backline objectives for you.

>>53826478
this prisma meme sucks

>>53826435

Conscripts with orders will kill far and above more brimstones than brimstones can kill conscripts

brims are also fucked in that they lose 1 model per casting attempt even if it doesn't go off, so you end up losing 50 brims to get 16 smites which is not a great trade against conscripts

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Need some feedback on this list (see pic). I know armored guard looks pretty weak this edition, but I'm sticking to my guns. Not super competitive, but do you think this will win any games? My one hope is that the meta shifts to be so anti-infantry that my opponents will struggle against all the tanks since vehicles in general will be less common.

>>53826475
the real anti infantry list is a bunch of cheap flamers and some predators with heavy bolters and autocannons

khorne berzerkers also do a decent job assuming they have chainaxe+chainsword and get into melee

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>>53826478
Here's one of my dudes.
>>53826529
Nah, you just have to use the right filters at the right setting.

>>53826536
didn't read your picture because it's gay

>>53826536
Could you post your list in a nonaustisic format, such as a list?

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>>53826496

>>53826334
You know these could both just fit in one battalion, right?
You're basically just all over the place and with little AT. Since you basically just have two twin las in 1500. 5 termis without a heavy weapon termi is pretty crap as well. The seraphim could help with the needed AT, if you have inferno pistols.

>>53826573
Oh shit an MS paint comic
You sure showed him son

>>53826557
that's not one of your dudes that's a picture laden with butt filters so it looks nothing like a warhammer mini

>>53826512
I feel like killing 42 conscripts a turn would be plenty to keep them out of range of doing anything effective though. Either they remove them from the front, in which case they won't reach you, or remove them from the back, in which case commisars won't reach them.

Plus 3 knights with 2 Avenger gatling cannons each still have more guns than just those 6. And can more easily charge in for even more damage if need be.

>>53826496
This post right here is why GW should feel bad for even introducing them, it just gives casuals another excuse to be lazy and complain about competitive players. The notion that they're exactly as balanced as each other is ridiculous.

>>53826214
A mix might do you better. Base your list on the second one, but drop a flyer if you can. Bring a triarch stalker and crypteks to make your warrior blobs invincible.

Dropping a flyer and the doomsday ark leaves you enough for a triarch stalker and a unit of destroyers, or possibly a ghost ark (though I forget what it does for regenerating warriors now)

>>53826593
the commisar can be the second guy in the blob and you'll never hit him because he can pull guys off the back

>>53826586
Thanks. It took me almost as much effort to do it as it would take to build a list with points.

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>>53826589
It's my mini and it's 1 filter at around 60%. Get over it.
Yes, we all know the irony behind the picture.

>>53826613
At which point he's only covering that one squad, and with 42 deaths alone from only the main guns, you'll easily be able to wipe them all out them squish him afterwards, wasting a lot of his value.

>>53826598
they literally are as balanced as one another

one is about taking your models and giving them whatever you want

the other is about cramming in the most point efficient models into a list

points in 40k have always been shit, have never been balanced, but now you get to choose which flavor of shit you want

the SAME PEOPLE came up with both point schemes

>>53826536
>>53826566
>>53826569
shit I was thinking it was a good way to organize it - basically:


Command Detachment:

Pask - Demolisher - Lascannon - x2 Multi-Melta

Tank Commander - Executioner - Lascannon - x2 Plasma Cannon

Tank Commander - Executioner - Lascannon - x2 Plasma Cannon
Spearhead Detachment:

Company Commander

Veterans Squad - Heavy Flamer - x3 Plasma Gun - Chimera - x2 Heavy Flamer

Veterans Squad - Heavy Flamer - x3 Plasma Gun - Chimera - x2 Heavy Flamer

Leman Russ Tank - Punisher - x3 Heavy Flamer

Leman Russ Tank - Punisher - x3 Heavy Flamer

Manticore - Heavy Bolter

Manticore - Heavy Bolter

Manticore - Heavy Bolter

>>53826626

Do not - I repeat do not attempt o have a conversation regarding the game impact of conscripts with anyone who is a memscripter. They are literally incapable of reason.

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>>53825881
What do YOU like about Genestealer Cults, /tg/?

>>53826239
i dont get it either, ive heard that from my local and my friends. making a list with points isnt hard, its like, it takes almost no extra time to do a army with a points list as opposed to power

>>53826315
They still don't seem nearly worth their points, though. Assault 2 is severely hamstrung by BS4+ and S3.

>>53826630
I like it, has a lot of options for dealing with a variety of threats

>>53826645
The breeders

>>53826629
>they literally are as balanced as one another
Dude, I'm so fucking sick of explaining why this meme is blatantly false. Please just do your own homework, apply a little basic reasoning, and figure out why this is hilariously wrong on your own.
>>53826573
this is a good place to start

>>53826032
spray paint them blue


or play narrative games with your friends while drinking beer, use power level to make your lists, don't spend any points for summoning, just forge the narrative

>>53826645
That they're such good target practice for Necrons.

>>53826611
>I forget what it does for regenerating warriors
It gives them a second Reanimation Protocol roll at the end of the movement phase.

>>53826070
hellblasters destroy any T7 vehicle, like they're unfair

>>53826647
A little, but it still gives them a few options compared to a standard guardsman.

I feel like they'd be more fair at about 8 points, but I'd want to play some games with them to really get a feel for it.

>>53826658

I cured my store of the power level cancer quickly. I intentionally abused it to the worst possible level and played people until they were disgusted with it - now we're all writing lists with points.

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>>53826533
"It is slain after the psychic power has been used"
Brimstone only dies on a successful cast

9.9pts of conscripts and associated Commanders (not counting cost of Commissars) is needed to kill one brimstone per turn when FRFSRF within RF range. It really ends up being dependent on how much firepower the conscripts can bring to bear any given turn, based on cover or such. Under ideal conditions (IE all conscripts being able to fire with FRFSRF+RF every turn against an enemy unit of Brimstones), the Conscripts will on average kill 1000 brimstones in about 5 turns. That's really dependent on positioning though, and in all likelihood they'd only manage to kill about half. Still, they could probably kill the ones closest to objectives to out-number them?

>>53826658
>please do your own homework because I can't actually prove that power level is worse than points

good to know

>>53826686
>>edition isn't even out yet

>yeah I TOTALLY played games
>I don't just shitpost on /tg/ all day

>>53826719
The leaks have been out for weeks.

>>53826719

The full rules have been available for 3 weeks at this point.

>>53826686
what models did you use to abuse

Reposting because
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8k6EpVUQIvUN1JyMnc1VFdmWk0/
Unfinished battle calculator because I'm starting over from scratch, it's good enough for one gun vs another interactions but nothing substantial. Need suggestions for features, like rerolls of every type, changes due to advancing or losing any wounds etc.

>>53826745

Chaos Knights were my first experiment and Fulgrite Electro Priests were my 2nd. Both worked wonders for proving the point.

>>53826575
I realized I fucked up on termies, I do have AT.

I know it's a mess. I have WAY more modelwise but they aren't table top ready. I was sick for two weeks, lost like $800 in pay checks. So I've been over-working to make up cost... which means I've lost most my viability in ready-to-rock models.

Maybe I should just aim for 750 or 1K points and just stick to the marines.

>>53826566
>>53826569
Welcome to the way Army officers display briefs and write OPORDS

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>>53826773
nice virus

I've been going through some of the chaos lords of war shit

>>53826788
>chaos knights

your opinion has been discarded

>>53826695

I defeat the brimstone player by accidentally dropping my case on the table, shattering his $3500 worth of teeny tiny plastic models and forcing him to reglue approximately 2000 figures.

>>53826645
Accomplish everything the Emperor wanted!

Human born super soldiers to defend humanity? Purestrains and Metamorphs.

Hivemind and caste system that creates a functional economy? Indeed.

Immortal leadership with genius level IQs and psyking? Patriarcs and Magos.

Warp resistance and destruction of worship feeding chaos? You got it.

The perfect nation is a Genestealer nation!

>>53826816

Fortunately it doesn't really matter - no tournament at a regional or larger level will ever use PP regardless so I don't have to worry about it.

>>53826695

Cant actually fit 1000 25mm bases in a deployment zone and depending on summoning to bring in the other 424 brimstones is iffy at best.

>>53826798
they only do that because people in the army can't read so they need this picturebook bullshit

a prerequisite to playing warhammer is reading the rulebook, so we can present information more efficiently, with lists

All this points vs Power level autism , they literally said use points for matched play in the rulebook.

>>53826840
all of the tournaments in my area have already announced they are using power level

>>53826873

Yes I'm very sure that's happened. You'll be happy to post event links I'm sure?

>>53826843
one brimestone dies to spawn 10

cute idea, sounds really shit though

>>53826807
The gradients are fucking top tier, hoping to do something similar

>>53826701
Look if you really want me to, I'll explain it again, but really you should feel embarrassed that you have to ask for it to be spoon fed to you. It's obvious to anyone with half a brain and any experience playing this game at all.

>>53826843
The entire setup is ludicrous, Guard player would have the only moderately more feasible task of setting up around 600 conscripts in their own deployment zone. It was intend more as a pure numbers comparison. Conscript spam could possibly provide enough dakka to kill an equal amount of Brimstone spam, but it wouldn't be by a large margin.

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>>53825881
I made this list against a Nids player.
Cloack and Shadows mission.

I actually was pretty relaex during the campaing me and a few friends were playing. I was playing BA and the sector next to me belonged to a tyranids player.
All was going swell.
Then came 8th edition

>>53826873
Post the ad anon, we all want to see it

>>53826886
I would but

1. nobody in this thread has provided any evidence in support of their claims

2. I don't want to link events with addresses, anything which keeps you filthy mongrels as far away from me as possible is the best

>>53826887
Except they can't summon because it's not a psyker power. Characters can summon at the end of the move phase and can bring in a unit with 3d6 power level. Doubles punch you for a mortal wound, and triples for d3.

>>53826719
My store has been openly playing 8th for the past two weeks, we just had to use store copy books.

>>53826906
all you've done is drawn an ms paint picture and felt smug at your own retardation, they really need to raise the requirements for people like you to get a GED

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>>53826557
I was unaware prisma was a meme, I just heard it mentioned here and thought it was cool.

>>53826932
it's a shit meme for people who can't paint

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>>53826719
>he hasn't playtested the new rules yet

>>53826916
>I would but actually I'm lying and have no evidence to back up my claims
like pottery

>>53826887
With summoning points you can't just "lol bonus units" anymore. Using blue horrors to summon blue horrors just kills your own models for no reason.

>>53826916

Ahh so you're full of shit - and so concerned with how badly PP can be abused you're concerned someone who knows how to do it might show up at the event to boot.

You have no proof because tournaments are using points. If you could have googled even a 10 man store event using PP you'd have posted it by now to score a win.

>>53826695

Remember that conscripts are only so beefy because they're immune to morale, if you remove that (or don't have it in the first place like brimstones) they're going to start suffering really fast, especially if they're in blob configuration.


>>53826907

The theoretical meta list for this is 500 conscripts, 8 commissars and 8 commanders, which fits in a deployment zone just fine with room to spare.

It also consequently fits in a brigade detachment just fine.

>>53826942
Shame, I liked throwing different filters on my minis and seeing what they looked like. What units are you looking forward to trying in 8th Anons?

>>53826964
Except you also need a character to summon, so...

>>53826981
Did you mean a Battalion? Because I don't see how that meets Brigade requirements.

>>53826995
Do whatever filters you like anon, don't listen to these "thatsa meme!" fags

>>53826965
>to score a win

nobody wins on /tg/

everyone loses

The other important distinction in the brimstone spam vs conscript spam debate is that the conscripts can easily get to midfield on turn 1 while brimstones can only walk once. So there's really no debate who will be on objectives.

>>53826999

Right, duh.

>>53827024
Thank you for the bitter truth we all try to hide from

Now back to horror v conscript

>>53826906
I haven't been playing for a couple of years. Please tell me what's up with power levels.

>>53827067
Power Levels and Points are separate systems for list-balancing (Casual vs Precise), which are described in detail in the core rulebook, for which there is a download in the OP to learn more.

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>>53827067
>>53827085

>>53826835
Until Mommy arrives and turns that Genestealer nation into a desolate frozen rock in space.

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>>53827086

>>53827067
"Hey I got some time to kill, wanna throw some dice?"

"Sure but I don't have time to crunch numbers and minmax a list."

"Eh just throw together 50 points and grab a beer."

Assault weapons now let you advance and shoot at -1 right?

>>53827067
1.Granularity. 50PL list is roughly 1000p list. Both Smallest unit for both systems is 1. This point should be obvious.
2.PL assumes whatever gear, so a leman russ without sponsons is worth as much as leman with all heavy bolters or leman with lascannon hull and plasma cannon sponsons.

>>53827115
Yes.

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>Own a bunch of unpainted/poorly painted Chaos Terminators I've picked up over the years
>Finished stripping and cleaning them up today
>mfw I'm building the alpha strike Black Legion list I've always dreamed of

What are you excited for, Chaosfags?

>>53826304
How is Scions in 8th? What's the AP on the hot shot lasguns, is the range still 18", and what's the Ld value? Fluffwise Scions don't have Commissars 'encouraging' them.

>>53827130
I'm excited to get Legion rules 5 years from now.

>>53827130
10 Scarab deepstriking with a sorcerer + lord for 40 shots hitting on 2s with prescience and rerolling 1s

>>53827130
Relics, hopefully soon

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How should I paint my alpha legion. 1 wash of green and 3 of blue, or the new forgeworld clear blue, or is there a tamiya that would give me good results?

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>>53826645
Melt down those weird looking mutant ones, you know, the ones with the hammers? That stuff is good.

>>53827130
20 man squads of Terminators dropping in with a Sorcerer with Warptime behind enemy lines. Eat shit loyalist dogs.

>>53826931
Alright fine, I'll explain it since you insist on being fucking retarded, and I don't want anyone new to read this and mistake your blatant stupidity for a valid point.

>Power levels are just as balanced as points!
No, they aren't. The lead designer of the game said in an official interview that power levels are balanced with the assumption that both players are taking "average" upgrades for their squads. However, nothing in the rules prohibits players from stacking as many upgrades as possible on every single unit, and what exactly is meant by "average upgrades" is not clear. If you aren't an idiot, this should already be obvious to you.
On top of that, power levels offer significantly less granularity than points due to using smaller increments of value. It's much more difficult to balance a unit when you can only make changes in "approximately 20 point" chunks.
By the designers' own admission, power level is an eyeball estimate, not a properly balanced game system. Points at least make an attempt to be balanced, and will continue to be tweaked for balance as time goes on.

>Power Levels are so much faster to use!
Sure, if you are a retarded child who struggles with addition, or you're just too lazy to download a list building app, then yeah, it's marginally easier.

>Both systems were made by the same guys, therefore they're exactly as balanced!
If you're honestly dumb enough to think this is a valid argument, then I'm not sure anything could possibly save you from the newb trap of power levels.
Just because two lines are drawn by the same artist, doesn't mean they are exactly as even as the other, or that they are even intended to be. I can't believe I even have to say this.

>But I don't care if one of us has a significant advantage because we're too lazy to add! Balanced games are for tourneyfags!
Fine, enjoy being banished to the kiddie table and never getting a game with anyone who has half a clue what they're doing at your LGS.

>>53827182
>newb
...the actual fuck?
this isn't some /v/ bullshit, do you actually call people newbs?

Haha holy shit, I don't even care about this argument you 2 are having but holy shit man

Can you deploy on top of forts anymore? They're creatures now. I can't see anything one way or the other.

When are they releasing the free core rules like they said they would?

>>53826239
(You)

>>53827171

I did mine with a metallic blue from Army Painter and a green wash. It's pretty simple but it looks good, might be a bit darker than that Fire Raptor though.

>>53827217
my guess would be not BEFORE THE PAID VERSIONS FUCK CALM DOWN SON!

>>53827217
They'll probably be up tomorrow at midnight in the new zealand site which will be earlier for the rest of the world.

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>>53827182
Power points are actually a fun and balanced system to use when playing with friends instead of waacfags like you.

>>53827093
Well clearly. But just think of what a Tau invasion finding millions of Genestealers, billions of guardsmen and hundreds of Patriarchs would be like.

>>53827217
Did they ever say they were releasing the rules for free? I was under the impression that at most you'd get the AoS pamphlet and some balancing updates throughout the year.

>>53827131

Scions are excellent in 8th and a viable army all by themselves

Hellguns are AP -2, yes they're still range 18"

This isn't as much of a problem as all scions can deep strike (with zero scatter) outside 9" of the enemy and they can take 4 really cheap special weapons, meaning you can drop 4 BS3+ plasma/melta guns wherever you'd like for a pittance point cost.

Also taurox primes are fantastic and valkyries are the most legit flyer.

>>53827249
>needing power levels to have fun and balanced game
Get that waach shit out of here. Open play master race ww@?

What's the best way to go about making some Iron warriors that don't look like shit? Are the Mark 3 suits good enough to look Chaos-y?

>>53827249
I just fucking got done explaining why they aren't balanced.
Look, I'm not going to stop you from using power points if you really don't give a shit, but don't pretend that they're just as good, they're objectively shit by comparison.
Jesus fucking christ with the retards in here.

>>53826566
>>53826569
Unfun WAACfags detected.
>>53826536
Don't listen to those faggots, using the NATO symbols is cool as shit.

>>53827067
a unit 5 space marines with no weapons is worth X points. a unit of 5 space marines with all plas and melta bombs is also worth X points. that is power points, you can have a unit with no upgrades, or every maximum upgrade and it is still the same power points

Finally finished all the damage-calculations for Orks. Taking a break for now, will hopefully finish their cost-calculations later tonight.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h0hk_IdJ7fivDEjMiIpKM5yMMB8HTm64lZHuKdLZCIU/edit?usp=sharing

Mega-Choppa: Smash will kill a Knight in two turns on average.

>>53827282
Yeah, core rules. Not all rules.

>>53827279
The gsc codex in no certain words confirmed that there's a genestealer ethereal

>>53827310
Thank you for taking the time to do this.

>>53827130
>can finally make an <imperium> army
im excited to purge the black legion from the galaxy with holy promethium with my inquisitor and his guard marine allies

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>>53827171
Can i just mix 25 precent green wash with 75 precent blue wash and do a few layers? Or will it look like shit?

Any alternative bits for Termi hammers?

Normal SM hands look small on terminator arms

>>53827332
You're quite welcome! Glad it's of use!

>>53827104
Who doesn't already have multiple lists for multiple different point values all already written up and good to go?

>>53827348
hammers+axes

>>53827334

Maybe afterwards you can have a nice relaxing drink on Cadia :^)

>>53826149
Losers should accept that they have lost

>>53827355
I always make a new list for every occasion desu

>>53827182
Your assumption is that points are balanced to begin with . The best way to assess balance would be to collect stats from 1000s of matched games using one or the other and compare average win rates for different factions and build types . But 40k isn't an online video game so you can't . Fortunately what you can do is talk to your opponent face to face and agree not to be cunts to each other .

>>53827318
How great was the fluff in that codex? I loved the part about using aberrants as assassins

>>53827310
You are the real MVP of this thread, Chart-anon. I'd let you pee in my butt.

What's the general consensus on inter-faction balance so far? I haven't played since early 5th because the game just wasn't fun because of all the inane houseruling people went through to make the game decently balanced. I'm looking to get back in (I like numarines, shoot me) but if the game is still the same "I'm not going to take unit X because it's so overpowered and I refuse to play anyone who doesn't bring what I deem to be a balanced list" shitfest then I'll stick to other games.

>>53827381
Yeah, but if you want a list just for quick games at a random level, why not have a quick 1000 one ready to go?

>>53826451
Snipers have rules ignoring the restrictions on shooting characters

>>53827182
Are you remembering to take the random variance of dice into your calculations?

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So can shotgun scouts be good or should you always go sniper rifle?

Also why can't you move the transport, then have the units disembark like they deepstriked (aka no movement phase for them) instead of having them get out and move, and then the transport can also move?

Scout marines move 6"
A land speeder storm moves 18"
You should be able to move that storm 18" have your scouts get out, shoot their shotguns then charge into battle
Instead of don't move the land speeder, have your scouts get out and move 6", then move the land speeder 18" anyway

>>53827387
Points at least make an attempt to be balanced, and are better at being balanced due to increased granularity, and will be tweaked for better balance as time goes on.
Why rely on a flimsy agreement when there's a specific system in place that is exactly designed to prevent the need for such a thing in the first place?
Is everyone really this dead-set on not having do a little more addition?

>>53827417
I could see shotgun bikers being quite good. But not regular scouts.

>>53827417
I assume purely for simplicity's sake.

I think I got everything covered but I need some input, is there anything wrong with this list for casual play?

>>53827404
I whip one up real quick, ezpz

>>53827429
People hate improving anon

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>>53827441
lel I'm an idiot

>>53827412
What the fuck are you even trying to say? There are no calculations in my post, and I didn't design the game.

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So, what points level do you guys think will establish itself as standard? 1500 seems a bit low to me.

>>53826611
I specifically want to bring the Doomsday Ark as a matter of fluff, unfortunately.

>>53827457
I dunno, maybe it's not as clear cut as people think. You get like a couple extra guns on points but how much does that really effect anything? How do you know you won't roll a miss instead? Gotta think about it.

>>53826188
People who bitch about their opponent's armies being unpainted are cancerous shitstains whose opinions needn't weigh on you. And this is from someone who prefers to paint his entire army.

This entire culture in miniatures games that you have to dictate what your opponent brings beside a legal list is nuts. "I don't want to play against gray plastic, I don't want to play against Model X because my failure to understand middle-school discrete probability makes me think it's overpowered because it killed my favorite captain once" etc. It makes these games wholly impenetrable for newbies because it's impossible not to come off as a drooling mongoloid whenever you give somebody shit for having unpainted models or bringing a decently powerful list.

You know what would lead to nicely painted models on the other side of the table? Letting them paint at their own pace instead of pressuring them into slapping 3 colors on ASAP just so your aspie sensibilities aren't offended.

(For the record, that paintjob is fine and probably above-average for tabletop standard based on some of the horrific shit I've seen)

>>53827468
2000 seems like the new standard for a medium-sized game.

>>53827429
I'll probably still use points too but it just blows my mind that people are so serious about balance in a game that by nature will probably never have good balance. The games designers seem to get this with whole narrative style of game but people see loathe to abandon the idea of 40k as chess.

>>53827468
1850-2500 depending on the local meta.

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How about this for a list fellas? Powerful or dogshit?

>>53827485
All I ask is that you put in some effort. Basecoat and shade, that's all.

>>53827483
Ya but thats the whole point of the White Room, is to determine what the true average should be, and make decisions based on the best outcome of averages. Random Variance can swing it to be WAY BETTER or WAY WORSE but you can't account for any that with any sort of reliability

>>53827483
I can take a Nob squad bare-bones with nothing but sluggas and choppas.
Or, I can take a Nob squad armed to the teeth with kombi-skorchas, power klaws, and ammo runts.
These cost the same in power levels. There are many instances where it makes a significant difference.

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Bringing this to local game shop this weekend
rate / flame

>>53827515
Well then don't take the upgrades.

>>53827505
Would have a hard time dealing with a lot of armor, seems fine other than that

>>53827528
Better yet, use the points system so you don't have to deal with these issues in the first place.

>>53827485
You see, its a matter of extremes. hating using ANY unpaitned models, is pretty stupid. However, being "that guy" who always has unpainted shit is wrong too.

I don't give a shit if regular joe comes and plays every weekend and slowly is making progress. I don't expect every model painted instantly, or before he's even tried the damn game.

>>53827288
Honestly thought about a Scion dominated IG list, thanks for the info.

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>>53827437
But do sniper scouts fit in a fluff focused Salamanders army?

>>53827498
It'll never be as perfectly balanced as a purely deterministic game like chess, but I don't find that to be a compelling reason to just throw the entire concept of balance out the window.

>>53826852
We call it "soldier proof" for a reason. Same reason that the MRE heater bag says to prop it on a "rock or something"

Question 40kg

Do you bring the same list every time you play
or
Do you bring a different list every time?

Feeling like making a list with more Acolytes, Arcos, Death Cults, Crusaders and stuff like that. The new Miniwargaming vid with the guy made it seem fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IveznemTqXI

>>53827540
Yeah but what about the other guy that takes all the options, then you're even again so why worry?

>>53827579
I guess I disagree that the power levels are a complete failure at balance then .

>>53827564
I mean, Salamanders have to have scouts of some kind. I feel Shotguns would make more sense, since they're similar to flamers, but marine chapters are pretty big, and not every squad in them is going to be stereotypical.

>>53827607
Because then the person who has a greater variance in the number of expensive upgrades they can take gets the upper hand, because the power level system assumes you're taking "average upgrades," whatever that means.

>>53827639
Well then don't take all of them just take a couple.

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Is it possible to squeeze one of these guys into a 2000pt list?

Can you charge after falling back?

>>53827659
guard say hello

>>53827607
>>53827639
>>53827651
That also only works out if you assume everyone can swap their upgrades really freely. Someone's basic tactical squad with just a single flamer over 10 guys might be fine in a points game, but terrible in a game where the typical tactical squad is melta/multi-melta/combi-melta/powerfist.

If your models are built with/without upgrades you're fucked for power points one way or another.

>>53827662
Not unless a rule permits you, or your units have the flying keyword.

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>>53827666
Hello!

>>53827662
No.

Flying units can shoot after falling back as a general rule, but no one can charge unless they have a special rule that says otherwise.

Like Hellions, who can fall back, shoot, and charge again.

>>53827659
Tyranids could but not sure why you would. Primes as HQ, gaunts/rippers as troops, Lictors as Elite, Sky Slashers as FA, and Biovores as Heavy.

>>53827659

Pretty sure most factions can aside from ones with minimal unit variety and mostly costly units like GKs possibly?

>>53827659
I think Tau could manage it actually, if only thanks to Firesight marksmen/shapers.

It'd be a really infantry heavy list though, and you'd have to focus a lot on Kroot or Drones.

>>53827692
>>53827673
I suppose I should have specified a Flyrant. Was looking at Swarmlord but not sure they're worth the cost, so was looking at a Flying Hive Tyrant to go with some Shrikes.

>>53827659
For some armies, but definitely Guard. Those cheap ass heavy support choices and fast attack choices.

>>53827659
3xFireblade 126p
6x5 Strikers 240p
3xFiresight marksman 96p
3x5 Pathfinders 120p
3x3 Sniper drones 162p
744p

>>53827564
by the fluff Salamanders use everything, it's just a 99.995% preference towards flamers and meltas

So Dark Imperium gives some insight into the Indomitus Crusade which apparently was just a single main fleet:

>20,000 Primaris Space Marines
>50,000 regular Space Marines (mostly smurf successors)
>20 million Imperial Guard
>7 Imperial Navy Sector Fleets (~500 warships)
>Legio Metalica Titan Legion
>5 Skitarii Legions
>House Taranis Knight House
>1 Legio Cybernetica Legion
>3 Sisters of Battle Orders
>The whole "new" Sisters of Silence
>5 Custodes overseers

Pretty small all things considered since it was being compared to the Great Crusade

>>53827651
Or just use points so you don't have to worry about that issue in the first place.

so what the fuck are the point of shotguns on SM scouts?

>>53826168
Thousand Sons are definetly the most forever alone/lonely legion.

>>53827838
But we're not talking about using points.

>>53827845
Being fucking badass?

Do people still buy the old metal Grey Knights?

>>53827845
They're the mobility option, since you can advance while firing them and still put out good damage at close ranges.

>>53827828
Well 40k lore and sense of scale are like englishmen and scottsmen.

>>53827860
That's what I was talking about. Points vs. power levels.

Will 8th Edition be a decent starting point? The only time I've ever played 40k (outside of Dawn of War 1) was a demo game with a GW employee over ten years ago, but I remember it seeming cool.

>>53827845
You can advance and shoot at -1.

>>53827828
50 space marine chapters (probably closer to 100 since they're never at full strength) will fuck up a LOT of stuff, yeah

So first the enemy rolls to hit, and they have to roll their WS/BS or higher, then they roll to wound and they have to roll the number indicated by the strength/toughness chart in order to wound, once you wounds incoming, YOU then roll vs the model's save score or higher and if you pass it doesn't take a wound? So like Marines have a sv of 3+ so if you roll a 3 or more your marines aren't wounded?

Is that how it works or am I retarded?
Also where do invuln saves fit in at?

>>53827523
What's your favorite color?

>>53827875
Yep. Now is a great time to jump in, 8th edition is kind of a fresh start for the whole game.

>>53827873
Okay but I was talking about power levels not points.

>>53827875
>DoW 1

Actually...yeah, you should be fine! Get into it! Just be wary of the starting cost.

>>53827512
>>53827550
You don't get to dictate what your opponent brings to the table. Who the fuck cares if they're painted or not? You didn't buy the models.

>>53827875
It was designed to be, which factions were you thinking about?

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>>53827724

I was thinking of fitting it to Tau too and decided to whip up a list real quick
Just picked brigade and filled it out quick

>>53827892
Uh, alright?

>>53827845
You can move and still shoot them twice, and still be able to assault.

With bolters you can only move, shoot, then assault, or not move or assault and shoot twice.

>>53827909
you can assault after firing rapid fire weapons now

>>53827881

Yep that's correct

Invul saves are just optional saves that cant be modified (AKA cant be made worse) that some models that in case they get shot with a lascannon or something

So normally a space marine who eats a missile to the phase will have their armor save reduced to 5+ due to the AP -2 on the missile launcher.

However, if he has a 4+ invulernable save (written 4++ usually) he will be able to save on a roll of 4+ instead.

Basically think of invulnerable saves as "My armor save cannot ever be worse than this".

>>53827881
say your marine get wounded by a bolter
a bolter is 1 damage with zero AP
you need a 3,4,5,6 to make sure your marine survives the hit and wound. Sometimes such as on plague marines you get an additional save (used to be feel no pain) which is usually a 5 or a 6 to save the model
an invulnerable save is used if your marine gets trashed by a high AP weapon, such as a melta gun with -4 AP, which means your marine gets no 3+ save, but instead uses his 4+ invul (if he has one)

>>53827828
>legio Metalica
Cool

But they're not Legio Honorum

How come Tau are white instead of orange now?

>>53827987
Different septs have different colors.

>>53827987
It's just a different Sept.

>>53827863

Hell yeah.

>>53827946
>>53827950
So like Vulkan He'stan has an armor save of 2+ and an invuln of 3++, so he can only even have AP-1 affect him basically because his invuln will always be 3++?
While a Chaplain has 3+ and 3++ so he's basically not affected by AP due to that?

So it's not an *additional* layer of saves, it's just a failsafe for your armor?

>>53827987

Because it was a bad color scheme to use as their box art.

Same reason bieltan isn't the box art color of eldar anymore

>>53827987
Trump sued them.

>>53828026

Essentially yes.

>>53827987
Orange is the desert camo and it's based on the arid plains of their home planet. White trims are the sept color of that home planet. Shadowsun is from t'au, the homeplanet and she led the 3rd sphere expansion and her expansion army was fully colored in her sept color. So it's a ceremonial thing.

>>53826188
as long as you're not using a grey tide, you're good

>>53828026
Except Chaplains have 4++, but in the event that something had 3+ and 3++ then yes, it would not be affected by AP

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Thoughts?

>>53827903
The commander doesn't need str 5 when you already have it on droves, plasma guns would be good on him.
Take fusion blasters on the ghostkeel, as you lack good anti-tank.
Give your squads a team leader/shas'ui, it's free.
You don't have enough vespid to really make a difference. You'll need a larger squad or to drop them.
Take more pathfinders, not drones.
The broadsides shouldn't be moving. Give them shield drones for allocation of heavy weapons and give them the early warning system if they are going to be unsupported, otherwise a velocity tracker or counter fire defense system.
You still don't have enough anti tank or guns that kill elite stuff. A squad of battlesuits with two plasma and a fusion blaster would work well, as would anything else with strong guns.

>>53828079
that's wrong. Kinda
If they're in cover the armor save gets a bonus to 2+.

So a 3+, 3++ unit in cover will have a 2+ save unless their is AP.

A 6+, 3++ unit in cover will only get 5+ armor, so the 3++ is still better. so AP won't matter.

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>>53827659
Here you go.

Dont bring an army, bring an apocalypse!

>>53828117
Drop plasma pistol on the sorcerer, give other hellbrute a multi-melta, not a heavy bolter. If you still need points, take less pox guys or drop the warp bolter. You'll need the anti-tank. Yes I know you have meltaguns on the marines.

>>53828132

Thanks for the feedback but that isn't a serious list. Just me following up on fitting a brigade into 2000 pts
for >>53827659

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Thoughts on this general look for a Khornate color scheme?

Are crusaders/acolytes point efficient for what they do?

>>53827600
what a garbage list from the Ministorum, as well as many rules mistakes from both players.
>three priests in one rhino
jesus why

>>53828172
It's not traditional but it can work. I like it.

>>53828184

Crusaders are cheap power swords and storm shields, they're ideal for tying up shit like dreadnoughts and terminators where they were going to be wounded on 2's anyway.

Acolytes are strange but they're more points per wound efficient than conscripts and can take storm bolters. Let that sink in.

>>53828248
What does it want now?

>>53828172
I dislike the face color. I think it feels off. I feel maybe swapping the red and bone coloring might work. White works as a trim better I think. All in all good colors though.

>>53828211
It's their tour bus?

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>>53827882
Red

>>53828211
It's miniwargaming. They have bad lists and never play a game correctly. Still, it looks like fun.
>>53828184
They are. Both are great. Crusaders can fight twice a turn too with acts of faith and re-roll attacks.
>>53828248
I wonder what models to use as acolytes with storm bolters. I'm using sisters of silence models as acolytes with power weapons since they fit with Greyfax well visually speaking.

>>53828026
Yeah, it's mostly nice for cover saves and the like- you can realistically get a 2+ with that, which is really damn nice for absorbing small arms fire

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>>53827600
Lil is for ____________.

>>53826645
The trucks make me laugh. Beep beep here comes rape.

>>53828211
>as well as many rules mistakes from both players.
It's MWG, they forget rules just after looking them up.

>>53828166
I was leaning towards dropping the plasma and making a full Dakka dread

>>53828304
Great voice effort by Lil.

>>53828304
>ywn have a qt trap to roll your dice for you during 40k games
why live?

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>>53828231
Glad you think so

>>53828268
I did a bit of testing with it. I see what you mean on the trim. I may need to play around with it some more. Face plate I'm more torn on

>>53828353
>qt
Christ I could make a MUCH better trap than that thing, you guys have low standards

>>53828277
I use catachans since they are super easy to convert, and fit the "rag tag band" of misfits they are supposed to be

>>53828379
Not with those man-hands you can't.

>>53828379
So, be my dice rolling qt trap, then