Monks vs Gunslingers

>>53807422
>and the class makes some assumptions about the setting (firearm technology/vaguely asian martial arts orders) that don't really fit into peoples general idea of a "fantasy" setting.

Says you but otherwise the assumption made is that a guy who wears heavy armor and swings a sword and is presumed to be a professional warrior is in no way capable of learning how to use a gun or fighting unarmed.

>>53807422

In Pathfinder, at least, both are also generally considered to be highly subpar classes, but while the Monk has gotten a series of archetypes and other things meant to make it suck less, the Gunslinger's design means most people don't consider it worth going past 5 levels in and no archetype can fix it, and it's tied to guns, which have a bevy of rules headaches on their own, causing many GMs to just throw the whole thing in a bin in frustration.

Also more people just seem to like wuxia martial artist guy for a character concept over "the fighter, but has to use a specific kind of weapon."

>>53807477
The monk class isn't just fighting unarmed though, it also gets a bunch of vaugely supernatural powers

>>53807515

And what's stopping the fighter from doing similar? The monk can use a variety of weapons besides his fist and still use those same powers through them in varying degrees. The seperation is as pointless as divine/arcane trying to explain away why a warlock who gets their powers from a supernatural entity is somehow different from a cleric who does the same.

>>53807508
>Also more people just seem to like wuxia martial artist guy for a character concept over "the fighter, but has to use a specific kind of weapon."

This is why the pathfinder gunslinger is a bunch of bullshit. In a lot of other systems gunslinger is either some john woo shit (which makes it a monk that fights at range) or some kind of overall techie/science class (that gives it a bunch of abilities it can draw from instead of just shoot man)

There was really no excuse to make alchemist and gunslinger separate classes when they debuted in the same book.

>>53807573
What else is Pathfinder but needlessly niche classes? Its fans seem to think that is a feature...

>>53807422
Well as classes they both have very distinct archetypes of exotic warriors who blow into a land that isn't theirs and save the day.

Gunslingers are often portrayed as a science-y class justifying why period weapons would be in a fantasy game (which is fucked up), or as the actual archetypical gunslinger which is close to an atheist paladin in vibe. It's also why gunslinger classes are so boring. I mean a fantasy gunslinger would be a one-shot one-kill class, so something that suits like a 5e rogue archetype in ability. You do your thing, probably get some survival/trick shot stuff, and wear a sick poncho. Honestly assassin would be a good as-is archetype for a gunslinger.

Meanwhile monks or eastern warriors in fantasy are portrayed as mystical and disciplined. The D&D archetype sort of covers the not-magic magic abilities of monks but is so obsessed with unarmed combat it sort of ruins the archetype.

What I'm saying is that High Noon proved conclusively that a gunslinger and a monk are distinct classes.

>>53808709

That's the thing though, it's really two ways of looking at the same thing. You say the atypical depiction of a gunslinger is a non-religious paladin which I could say the guy was a paladin who happened to use a gun.

Or the eastern warrior is a fighter rather than being a monk but that's because typical fantasy fans are deathly afraid of their big burly european swordsmen being "weeaboo" by doing anything other than swinging a sword and grunting.

>>53807556
>And what's stopping the fighter from doing similar?

Because then the fighter would be a monk.

>>53807422
D&D and PF settings aren't "general idea of a "fantasy" setting". D&D never was standard fantasy setting and the monk appeared in day 2 at the same time as cleric for example.

There're monk monasteries everywhere since centuries ago in pretty much every D&D and PF setting, that's why they're so common. And not all of them come from notAsia.

Also similarities stop there, Gunslingers are great at their role (damage dealers), and Monks don't have a role and suck at pretty much everything but fleeing from combat.

>>53808854

I don't know, does having ki that lets you turn your plain jane sword into a magic weapon because of you instead of having an intrinsicly magic sword makes them a monk?