How are chaos daemons even a problem lmao just shoot at them

Because the daemons can make the mind go insane, cause plague, or just teleport behind u every static defence.

>>53803299
demons don't work like you think. Who needs guns when you can walk through walls and shrug off bullets like they're nothing?

>>53803299
Bullets are so effective and replaced all other weapons because we are humans.
We can be killed with ONE of those.

In a universe where riddling something with bullets DOESN'T kill it immediately, the effectiveness of guns is reduced.

A phalanx of infantry with spear and shield today isn't scary because you can just incapacitate them all with one machinegun burst.
Now imagine if they DIDN'T stop marching towards you OR scatter or even break formation once you filled them with holes. Suddenly they become a concern again.

>>53803541
Then we hit them with air power or artillery. Or just manoeuvre our forces away from the infantry

>>53803600
Not every battle can afford to have air power or artillery on every front, and daemons have their own artillery and flying monsters as well to combat both.

>maneuver our forcesa way from the infantry
Whenever daemons attack, it's usually not in a situation that you can just avoid - either they're being summoned alongside an invading force, or the Warp itself is ripping so that the daemons are going to be all over your planet, charging at you from every angle. They are rarely ever acting as a static or defensive force.

If they're attacking you and you're just constantly retreating, eventually you're going to run out of room to retreat.

>>53803299
I really like seeing normal guardsmen with fixed-blade swords, dunno why

Lore bullshit, but in tabletop they suffer against ranged heavy armies

>>53803937
you like seeing them before they are brutally slaughtered? [apart from tau, fucking cowards]

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>>53803895
>Not every battle can afford to have air power or artillery on every front.

>He thinks having a half decent navy and airforce is more resource intensive then maintaining a supply train that keeps a million men in 24/7 trench combat.

>>53804119
Welcome to 40k, where keeping bodies on the front is cheaper than supporting them. Especially when your air force only moves when the other military body says so, which is completely separate from your own.

Numbers, psychic powers, sudden appearances.

Daemons can warp in in overwhelming numbers and swarm enemies, taking them by surprise. They also have some telekinetic shit going on and other mindfuck abilities.

They really do get slaughtered en masse but there's so many of them that it doesn't make much difference so long as they win the battle. It's also difficult to kill daemons permanently rather than just send them back to Warp by killing their physical form. Not impossible but it's likely that killing a daemn won't actually kill its spirit.

>>53804119
i think he meant that those assets would likely be tied up in some way via daemonic shenanigans that would prevent them from fulfilling their roles effectively

>>53803895
Imperial guard bring ridiculous amounts of artillery and tanks to their battles though. Nothing should be able to walk through the rain of basilisk fire alone, let alone wyvren suppression tanks. Greater daemons shouldn't even be a threat, they'd get targeted so fast every heavy weapon will be on them the moment they show face

>>53806953
I would like to point out a very important counter point:daemon summoning. They enter into the field of battle from a another dimension very close to or on top of the formation they are attacking. At lest that is were they start out, they will likely end up having to move to another formation after routing the first one, so they will have to close the distance then.

If I was in command of a force that was using 40k daemon summoning I would target airbases if in reach and fire bases if air bases are not in reach.

>>53803299
It's funny because this is basically the approach Tyranids used to BTFO daemons and it totally worked.

>>53803541
Well shit, as long as you can run faster than they can march.

It's stated several times in the heresy novels that daemons are vulnerable to bladed weapons and are highly resilient to ballistics.

Why this is hasn't been properly explained. Just use your imagination I guess

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>He thinks daemons don't have air power.

>This is what corpse worshipers actually believe.

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>>53803299
As has been said already, daemons can appear out of thin air and so long as there is a crack in the warp or the summoning continues, there is almost an endless stream of them.

Also for artillery, a vanguard of greater daemons appearing on top of them would completely level any base of operations. Even one pic related would route an entire infantry platoon under daemonic incursions.

>>53804119
That 'beat army' button makes this pic all the more perfect.

>>53807691
>>53803541
>>53809515
>>53810114
>Now imagine if they DIDN'T stop marching towards you OR scatter or even break formation once you filled them with holes. Suddenly they become a concern again.

Pic related is there to solve your issue.

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>>53810625
Didn't post pic.

>>53810639
Razor wire doesn't even slow down some of the horrid things that are technically pure demon in 40k. There are also things that are demonically possessed, are not slowed down by razor wire, and also have a lot of Gun.

Again, you also have the whole "teleports behind you NOTHING PERSONAL MORTAL" aspect. Why do you not understand they can show up in places that you would not sanely predict or think are "safe"?

Even if everything is ideally fortified and they can't get in anywhere beyond a certain distance, you don't have warning. A moving army raises dust, your orbital assets and scouts see them. Demons charge out of scars in reality/appear out of nowhere with their dicks up and ready to start cutting you apart, very suddenly.

Why is it that a bunch of you guys apply real world logic to fight enemies from a realm that is literally mind over matter and consider the laws of physics an enjoyable past time.

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>>53806953
Daemons can teleport straight up to the tanks and slice them apart. They can also use psychic powers to protect themselves from the incoming shells or strengthen their already formidable resistance to damage. The one kind of daemon that doesn't use magic like that, Khorne's, is also the type that deploys in organized legions with dedicated artillery of their own.

>>53808241
>getting BTFO in ranged combat by a faction known for having shit range

Hahahahahaha pathetic. Daemons a shit when they can't rely on their "teleports behind you, drives your whole platoon insane" tricks and have to work without endless reinforcements like everyone else

>>53811769
Pretty sure the tyranids are the only ones that could have pulled that off though. They're the only army they can mass produce artillery on a days notice and constantly develop immunities to the plagues and limit the daemons connection to the warp and not suffer from any of the daemons morale attacks. Any other force in that same situation would have been rekt unless they sent specialists to close off the rift, which is how almost every victory over daemons goes. Very few times dondaemons actually lose militarily

>>53810639
>why army height and weight standards fail- the post

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>>53810759
>Razor wire doesn't even slow down some of the horrid things that are technically pure demon in 40k. There are also things that are demonically possessed, are not slowed down by razor wire

Wire barriers are a is a valid vehicle sapping tactic used in real life. Having a long set of c-wire miles wide is very useful. the stuff will catch a machine In real life and will slow down the advance of an enemy infantry while they cut through it. (In the case of rampaging melee dumbfucks it's slow them down and horribly rip and tear the poor sods as they try to dash across it and receive gashes in their body for the effort and more importantly it'll slow them down.

>>53811490
Because "affix bayonetes!" Is a tactic that happens in-setting and is not useless.

>>53803299
Not only do Deamons vary from not caring about being shot full of holes to actually having skin tougher than any tank present in the galaxy, they also are fucking magic to boot.

Modern military tactics start to break down when your opponent is a literal endless stream of deamons who both incite madness in your troops through their psychic presence but also do not play by the same physical rules as your troops.

They might as well be humanoid tanks when considering how to deal with one. Then you have to also take into account the 'traditional' military of raving lunatics also with magic powers and fanatics performing tactics like ISIL on crackmethamphetaminesteroids from hell.

Because Chaos is a combined arms force. Also some demons shoot.

>>53803299
If I recall right, daemons don't even die when you shoot them until they stop moving. They just go back to the warp.

If you have a literally immortal army, why not just overwelm your enemies?

>>53812823
Daemons usually take forever to reform themselves, it's not an instant thing that can be done in the same battle or even in a long war. Tyranids and certain Necrons are the only ones that can do that IIRC. Daemons also don't have endless numbers, it changes depending on how powerful their patron god is

>>53812438
what about daemonically possessed titans, daemon engines, defilers, and shit that fucking flies?

does mother fucking razor wire work against a thing that literally can flatten it or utterly ignore it?

Like, just give the fucker metal legs or skin so tough the wire won't do shit... much like the skin of a blood letter or blood thirster.

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>>53810029
>daemon air force
>posts CSM unit
You had one job

>>53803299
Enemy is a mass of never-ending muscle, bone and sinew composed of warp spawn nightmare fuel. "its easy just shoot it" :^)

>>53810639
Literally designed to catch in clothing and slow you down. It ain't gonna do shit to a daemon

>>53815166
>enemy is a never ending swarm of biomechanical horrors specially designed to kill any eat you, just shoot it lmao
>enemy is a massive horde of barbaric aliens genetically engineered by an ancient godlike race to thrive on war l, just shoot them lmao
>enemy is rank upon rank of highly advanced regenerating death robots who have technology thst is practically magic, just shoot them lmao

Anyone can be blown to bits by enough firepower. Are people really forgetting that daemons can and do get shot all the time?

>>53806953
While true, the fact they can warp reality, can take multiple tank shells, can sometimes just appear a couple of hundred feet away and their support troops can warp in basically around you. Makes all that much harder, theyd be much easier if they all walked across a couple miles of flat fields

>>53815294
And very clearly the Imperium doesn't always 100% of the time have enough firepower to bring to bear to deal with all it's situations, otherwise it would have just shoot everything dead already.

>>53813694
It would still tangle them up and possibly make them trip over

Well obviously it wouldn't stop something that is flying

>>53815832
I'm just going to go ahead and ask, have you ever actually read any 40k lore? Because"lol just shoot them" and "lol just use razorwire" are exactly the kinds of arguments you expect from someone who know nothing about the actual setting.

Of course, this is assuming you're the same person as the other earlier anons.

Why do so few people play Daemons?

imo Tyranids look worse yet theres plenty of those guys being used

>>53809515
Stupid idea: maybe the closer you are to a demon the more "real" they are--they need our consciousness and emotions in the warp to survive after all. The more people and the closer they are, the more the demon materializes in reality, so the more it can be hurt. They don't use guns because attacking someone from extreme range means their projectiles aren't as real either.

>be imperial guard general facing Daemonic invasion
>somehow have foreknowledge of it, somehow even gain knowledge of the general location of the summoning because you're more lucky and special then 99% of imperial commanders
>set up barbed wire, trenches and other obstacles, artillery is zoned in, guardsmen have strong defensive positions and clear lines of retreat
>barbed wire and trenches don't do shit, Daemons aren't made of flesh, you just gave them more spiky thing to play with
>initial barrages just disappears into the warp as the Daemons are summoned
>creatures made of magic warp fire have already reached the first defenses
>that big fat one is laughing while 3 heavy bolters unload into him
>artillery is just making that angry looking one with the whip a little angrier
>physical obstacles have 0 effect, artillery barrage just prunes the slower and weaker daemons
>time to pull back, o wait my brain just spawned a nurgling
>artillery can't adequately target the sporadic and random movements of these deamons, and you had time to prepare
>run away
>get shot by inquisition
>with your last breath, curse the faggot that thought using razor wire and conventional military tactics against creatures that can appear anywhere at any time, that don't really believe in the laws of physics, was a good idea

>>53815873
I play daemons but I always lose because I don't use the one or two ways daemons can win...and if I come up against a grey knights army I might as well forfeit

>>53809515
>>53815943
Aren't most blades in 40k mono-molecular? This is a likely reason why they inflict more damage than ballistic or explosive damage.

>>53815873
Too edgy/not-cute for most girls.

>>53815873
>>53816277
because they're edgy and cheesy

>>53815873
>Why do so few people play Daemons?
very little gameplay variety
visually quite stale
miniatures range is incomplete/filled with older sculpts

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>tinkin nough dakka cant solve erryting
>tinkin dem spikey gits cant get krumpt wit nough dakka
You ummy gits really gork mah mork erry nah n again

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>>53813694
>>53816085
>>53815277

>lol just use razorwire

For the record I'd say that somebody who'd just offhandedly declare Concertina wire's effectiveness out of hand to not actually be very familiar with the stuff and how effective it can be at what it does.

>Literally designed to catch in clothing and slow you down. It ain't gonna do shit to a daemon

Why would that not work aggainst daemons? Tell me, I'm very curious It's function is to slow stuff down by catching onto them. Pic is very much related and is an example of what a charging machine will end up dealing with if it's driver is a dumbfuck.

>barbed wire and trenches don't do shit

[doubt.png]

>>53803299
It's simple.
Daemons don't give a shit.

You shoot at them with everything you got, and they chase you down through your trenches, walls, fortifications and traps. And they rip you apart.

Oh and don't forget that you have to deal with warp fuckery and pure insanity. Your soldiers lose their minds and rout. Their sorcerers are more potent than anything you could muster. They appear around you and behind your frontline, fucking up your support.

>>53816882
Actually, what if for say, orks shot a demon to shit, all the orks passing it go
>"dat bout as dakka'd as you could get, aint gettin up"
And the demon ceases to exist?

>>53817107
I guess it depends on how many orks believe that vs how many orks really wanna see the daemon get up again and jump into melee.

>>53803299
>BTFO by everyone in the setting just shooting at them?

tactical deep strike

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>>53817141
Holy fuck, "incourage" the dead enemy to fight again, orks get caught up in an endless fight simply drawing more enemies to them, killing them, then believing them back to life. Their dead sinply get "believed" back to life to fight again. This sounds scary and even more fucked than the current state of the universe. ENDLESS war anyone, nonstop?

Skull Cannons, Soul Grinders, Daemon Knights, Slaanesh Subjugators, Silver Towers of Tzeentch, Fire Lords and Doom Wings (daemon fighter jets basically), Plague Hulks, Lords of Battles, Contagions, Plague Towers, Cauldrons of Blood, Towers of Skulls, Death Dealers, Blood Reapers, Brass Scorpions and Doom Blasters (which are fucking daemonic artillery). To name a few things daemons have with guns on them.

A bunch of them fucking fly in one way or another.

They are literally fucking magic and can walk through walls, teleport from nowhere, burst from your buddy's head or wear him like a coat, or just magically mind control people. To say the least. Seeing them makes people go crazy.

Also, they are, again, MAGICAL AND CAN CAST MAGIC SPELLS AT YOU FROM A DISTANCE, WHICH IS THE MAIN WAY TZEENTCHIAN DAEMONS FUCKING ATTACK PEOPLE.

This is a troll thread. Stop responding you morons.

>>53816903
Isn't it that deamon can teleport at will? Bloodthirsters in the Spacemarine game and Dawn of War can teleport for short distance. Surely they can teleport over the barbed wire.

>>53806953
There are official accounts of greater daemons catching tank shells and throwing them back, for instance, my friend. Rules don't apply when physics doesn't.

>>53815832
>>53810625
Have you ever seen the legs on a bloodletter?
They would jump over coils of razorwire like a fucking kangaroo.
While the supernaturally graceful daemonettes wouldn't even need to slow their dancing, flamers float over the top and the ever-shifting balls of warpstuff that are horrors could probably just phase through it.

Sure if you have the time and logistical support you might get enough razorwire and fortifications in place to slow the demons down long enough to bring the arty in (assuming they don't possess your own side or warp in through a crack in your temple) in which case ... good. Now do it again. And again. And again until the portal's closed+the cultists executed, or you're dead.
And if you survive that ... You won. Congrats commander. Here's a medal. Get ready for the next campaign.

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>>53816085
>Conventional military tactics
>Using trenches when they have been outdated ever since the end of the first war

>>53817723
>And if you survive that ... You won. Congrats commander. Here's a medal. Get ready for the next campaign.
Correction.
And if you survive that ... You won. Congrats commander. Here's the Inquisition. Get ready for the purging.

>>53803299
T. guardsman who has never seen a great unclean one simply roll over landmines and artillery and completely dissolve their supposedly well prepared defense line
>the entire point of demons is to be so strong and so fast, that their medieval weaponry is deadly even to guns of the future
>but no actually, we can just shoot the mostly bulletproof monsters to death
>we can just hit the super fast teleporting demons with artillery
the demons are not unbeatable, unless you are on a daemon world, but they will tear through the defences of anything short of a well fortified bastion easily but they are just as deadly as any army
not to mention crap like the bloodthirster can easily fly over your defenses and smash a tank like cardboard, or deepstriking demons destroying key artillery positions, or (if the unadulterated BS that was re-rollable 2++ saves were canon) simply ignoring a nuclear missile

>>53804119
Supplies and ground are valuable, saying bodies are a dime a dozen is an understatement.

>Another anon that doesnt understand 40k is a total war scenario

>>53816903
Are you retarded or trolling? What part of ''semi-corporeal reality warping entities that ignore the laws of physics'' don't you understand? People have explained this to you very politely several times, either you're trolling or you're just stupid. Here's what's gonna happen to your wire
>the daemon will teleport around it
>the daemon will just phase through it
>the daemon's strength and invulnerability will allow it to completely ignore it and just tear it to shreds with its movements
>the daemon's flame/plagues will melt/corrode it into nothingness
>the daemon will pick it up and use it as a creative weapon, possibly infusing it with some warp essence
>the daemon will literally animate it and now your troops have to face sentient daemonic barbed wire along with fucking daemons

>>53818331
>the daemon will literally animate it and now your troops have to fuck sentient daemonic barbed wire with a face
ftfy

>>53818331
>the daemon will pick it up and use it as a creative weapon, possibly infusing it with some warp essence
and that is how the lash of torment was discovered

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>>53818331
The daemon will teleport around it

>The daemon used a teleport it could have used otherwise to attack something.

>the daemon will just phase through it.

Only some deamons can do that.

>The daemon's strength and invulnerability will allow it to completely ignore it and just tear it to shreds with its movements.

See pic related. You are vastly understating the effectiveness of the wires if you think they'd just ignore it all together.

>the daemon's flame/plagues will melt/corrode it into nothingness

They stuck around and used their magic powers on some wires to get past it. aka the wire served it's purpose and delayed the enemy advance.

>the daemon will pick it up and use it as a creative weapon, possibly infusing it with some warp essence

Any C-wire worth it's salt will be secured into the ground with pikesand tied up with something sequre. It's not Coming out of the ground without a fight delaying the advance and giving more time for bombardment. that's the main purpose after all.

>the daemon will literally animate it and now your troops have to face sentient daemonic barbed wire along with fucking daemons

I concede. Animated Concertina wire would fuck up any army big time. There's no counter that can reasonably be applied. we be fucked.

>>53812438
>real life.
Because the things that are in 40k are in real life.

>>53804200
Daemons are basically parts of their given god's very essence. They just join him.

Demons are pretty cool and edgy, they are in fact ranged weapons themselves, since manifesting in real world is a hell of a ride.
still shitty though

>>53818975
they might simply slice through the wire without missing a beat
and if the wire counts as dangerous terrain then they might simply adapt their tactics, they are a lot more cunning then the orks

>>53818975
>>53818975
Well, fuck. We should wrap all imperial worlds for some kind of demonproof razor wire balls for hugeass cozmic playfull deites.
We shoul commit it to the fresh codex

>>53819202
if razor wire is so tank resistant, why the hell do we build tank traps or dragons teeth?

>>53819215
I dunno. Peasants.

>>53818975
Daemonic flesh is tougher than modern rank armor. They don't have treads to get tangled, and even if they did get tangled daemons are stronger than flimsy metal. Even so, being slowed down by terrain is already a factor in the game rules. Being slowed down doesn't stop the relentless march of nurgle's host.

>>53818975
>>The daemon used a teleport it could have used otherwise to attack something
Because cooldowns are a thing outside of the game.
>> Only some deamons can do that
And those will.
>See pic related. You are vastly understating the effectiveness of the wires if you think they'd just ignore it all together.
Because legs=threads. Right. Imagine i wrapped your legs in extremely thin thread and you just ripped them with your normal steps without losing a beat. That's what would happen.
>They stuck around and used their magic powers on some wires to get past it. aka the wire served it's purpose and delayed the enemy advance
>a lot of demons have those things passively, otherwise it takes them literally half a second to do it and they can do it on the move
>>Any C-wire worth it's salt will be secured into the ground with pikesand tied up with something sequre. It's not Coming out of the ground without a fight delaying the advance and giving more time for bombardment. that's the main purpose after all.
Because the super strong, physics ignoring horrors can't just rip/melt parts of it or use tk or just rip the whole thing out of the ground effortlessly

>>53817277
Tuska Daemon-Killa is literally fighting an endless tide of daemons, getting killed, and being brought back to life every day. Only difference is it's Khorne doing it, because he approves of the boyz endless battle-lust.

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>>53818975
>I concede. Animated Concertina wire would fuck up any army big time. There's no counter that can reasonably be applied. we be fucked.

This guy is a true master in the art.


With that said He's right about C-wires barrios being a incredibly effective military tactic for it's niche function. it'll fuck up a charging horde of screaming bezerkers big time and would catch up a large creature if it tried to run it's way through

>>53819337
this is, of course assuming cylindrical demons in a vacuum

if the demon overlord controlling them is a WAAC player, he would easily utilize crap like juggernauts and skull cannons to clear a path through obstacles, use teleporting demons or CSMs to destroy artillery before it fires, and utilize blood thirsters to fly straight up to the firing lines to destroy armor and cause havoc, while the bloodletters arrive through every opening possible

while demons are not totally unstoppable, neither are they totally weak either

>>53819527
Are there any Khorne daemons who think going full melee is retarded and focus mainly on skull cannons and other big, loud guns? Pretty sure Khorne loves ranged weapons in this setting and has no issue with them

>>53812004
Even if no one else laughed, I laughed, anon.

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Pretty much what happens when daemons invade a world, except there usually aren't Necrons to bail you out

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>>53803299
As it has been repeated through the thread: most of them are absurdly strong, quick, and/or tough, they arrive primarily by deepstriking (either through direct summonings, or if the planet is spoopy enough by just tearing their way into the real world), and unless you're Astartes or have BALLS OF STEEL™, you'll be taking constant sanity and morale checks while engaging them. And all while this is happening, there are decent chances that there are plenty of cultists nearby, or that you and/or your allies might embrace Chaos first.

The reason daemons don't regularly steamroll planets is because it actually takes quite a bit of work for cults and sorcerers to create conditions for mass summoning. This is why Chaos cults and sorcerers usually spend years working their way into the local population, weakening the veil around the planet, and getting everything set up. That way, once everything is set up, they can bull-rush the planet with tons of daemons that'll give even the Imperium's best a run for their money.

>>53803299
they

deep

strike

dipshit

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>>53821404
>that second report
M
A B S O L U T E
D
M
A
N

>>53803412
this teleport bullshit is seriously the weakest "fluff" justification imaginable. so why dont they just teleport immediately inside the enemy army and tear it to peices with their claws without a shot fired? if that's how this universe works why would anyone bother arming themselves?

>>53810639
>this is OP's best idea to stop daemons
HAHAHAHAH

A single Greater Daemon killed a moon full of tyranids, didn't it? I remember you guys talking about it.

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>>53824306
>Drach'nyen aka the End of Empires aka Echo of the First Murder
>It's a daemon that was born when the first sentient human murdered his fellow man in cold blood
>This act, Its birth, is THE defining moment of mankind. It's when humanity's destiny was sealed
>As it was born, it reached out into the minds of all mankind. Every man, woman, and child that live, lived, and will live felt its touch as it tainted mankind across time and space
>Truly, a daemon of Chaos Undivided. It's kindred with all the daemons of Four and yet it stands apart. Wherever it goes, it will find a home each and everyone of the Four Powers
>It can sense anyone who shed blood no matter who or what it is. Machine or flesh. They are its prey. It hunts those who committed murder and feasts on their souls and flesh
>It can shapeshift into anything. From the tornado of claws and jaws to microscope bacteria
>It can mass possess machines and humans. Even titans were possessed by it and made its plaything However, it cannot possess the Custodes or the Sisters of Silences, these hated enemies it just slaughtered.
>It hunts the Emperor seeing his destruction and the fall of his empire as its singular purpose
>So strong its connection to mankind that Emperor was vulnerable to its lethal violence. Where it wounded him it sucked out his soul. Its destruction or banishment was something beyond the Emperor
>The Emperor fooled into imprisoning itself inside a Custodes who then fled as far as he can from the Emperor to protect he Emperor from the daemon meant to kill him.

Picture related.

What can you do to defeat this daemon.

Hard mode : You can't bring Pariahs into this.

OP clearly never saw Zulu Dawn.
Dindus with spears fucked up Englishmen with guns.

>>53823754
>so why dont they just teleport immediately inside the enemy army and tear it to peices with their claws without a shot fired?
That's exactly what they do.

>>53824338

Affix bayonets!

>>53823663
I dont getit

>>53824856
The ruler had a horrible horrible death, anon. come on, not even him but the text is literally right there. The ruler was a madman.

>>53824753
lol just set up razor wire dude

>>53803299
They have magic. Literally.

>>53824338
Pariah would only hide you.
As for defeating it: Pray, maybe big E and or Omnissiah can bail you out.

>>53824338
>What can you do to defeat this daemon.
Put it in a sword. The bearer won't ever win anything again =^)

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>>53824338
Surround him with razer wire

>>53824976
I an stupid and thanks.

>>53824488
so where does any resistance at all to chaos come from? seems like it's over before it begins, not "forty millenia" of endless war

>>53825279
Pariahs actually cause daemons to dissipate into nothingness. The strongest Pariahs, such as Sisters of Silence, actively decompose or destabilize daemons by their very presence.

In FFG 40k this was represented by having daemons roll a -20 test to remain corporeal for every turn they were within range of the blank's abilities.

>>53825685
Tyranids.

>>53810639
>lets just put 2 foot high wire down, that'll stop building sized demons that shrug off a tank shell.

Not to mention this relies on the fact that you know exactly where they are coming from. These boys are just gonna pop up all over you cause you were being retarded throwing the equivalent of silly string at them.

>>53818975
>In the 40k millenium where we can fucking fly massive space ship, our 21st century wire will stop demon spawn.
Its fucking space age mate. there are tanks that would just float over that, not even including that it is clearly much more durable and able to get past that shit

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>>53825776
Different anon here

We have better tanks then the imperium has and C-wire can hinder those just fine as is even withour modern tanks specifically having things built in for the tracks to help deal with it.

t. /K/

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>>53824338
luckily the magos had time to deploy his newly discovered STC, Razorioum Filumnius

>>53825838
course the imperial guard gets shafted, they are known for solving things iron warriors throw troops at the wall style, but the tanks possed by daemons probably has a way around it. throw itself with tentacles, disgusting demon legs, etc.

>>53825849
Ok, that's it, this is a fucking meme now.

>>53825838
your real life knowledge has no power here, person pretending to represent the whole board of /k/. The specs of those tanks were made by English nerds in the 80s, and are therefore completely worthless. The only reliable metric for measuring the worth of imperial tanks is the effect they have in universe, and in universe we see them surviving damage that would probably melt a modern MBT and taking out Titans, though rarely under extremely experienced commanders.

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>>53826046
Don't forget that in Doom of Mymeara, Cadian tank crews took out at least four eldar grav tanks before dying. Sounds pretty good going against tanks that can go 800kph and also have limited flight and holofields.

Would be so much better if the leman russ had a similar design to the abrams

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>>53803299
Tzeentch Dubs confirmed for working

>>53824306
He was there, I don't think it meant he killed every single tyranid on the planet by himself, he probably leads a massive khornate army to help him kill the bugs and neatly stack all those skills into his symbol

>>53825776
Khorne, if he so feels like it, can decapitate the entire army with an invisible blade and there's nothing they can do about it

>>53825699
>tzeentch dubs again
>tyranids secretly tzeentch confirmed

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>>53818331
Wow...

Nids have NO HOPE to get past a good set of wires.

>>53826878
just use your scything claws to cut through it
they can slice through thick steel plates, they can cut through wires

>>53826878
The Nids drop their own form of razor wire, it just grows from the ground. I don't understand how anyone ever beats the tyranids

>>53825838
Dude the eldar and tyranids have a far superior version of that, they use it all the time and they still get beat. Your razor wire ain't shit

They can open portals and deep strike in to get close. Also Pink Horrors can shoot mind bullets so that is something.

>this thread
>"muh wire"
lmaoing at his life, if wires could win wars ISIS wouldn't exist right now.

>>53825685
Daemons could very rarely manifest in reality before the recent warp rift shenanigans. Prior to that they had to be summoned and it's a lengthy process that requires a lot of dead bodies and doesn't let the daemons stay permanently.

>>53818268
then the people running said war are fucking imbeciles, a teenager could fix this setting with a bit of sparts and wit

>>53828201
It's especially funny when you consider that even basic Daemon troops would fucking ignore it with ease.

>Bloodletters hold out their swords that slice through marine armor, cut it down like wheat mid-stride
>Daemonettes run up, hold a dance competition in it without spilling a drop of blood, slice it apart to make jewelry out of, and then continue. Meanwhile, a guardsman blinks
>Plaguebearers march through it. Several lose limbs and expel fluids profusely. Everything, including the fluids, continues moving towards you
>Pink Horrors torch it, steal it, or magic it away like the weird gremlins they are. If one gets caught on it, two blue horrors pop out and keep moving.

>>53828970
>Daemons waste time cutting through miles of razor wire
>get BTFO by sustained basilisk fire

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>daemons can just lolnope all of your military tactics
>daemons don't give a shit about field defenses or ranged weapons
>daemons BTFO everyone Daemons are so utterly terrifying and ignorant of the natural laws of war that a single space marine can rally a population of medieval tech level mortals to beat them. Top fucking kek, how does chaos even stand a chance?

>>53831643
>laughing guard expects demons to be slowed down long enough to blast the demons
>demons cross the field inhumanly fast and cut you down before the artillery can fire
>artillery crew attacked by winged demons
it will take more than a little dangerous terrain to stop demons

I can't believe there are so many Eldar false flaggers here.

ELDAR TECHNOLOGY IS SO GREAT THAT THEY KNOW HOW FANTASTIC BARBED WIRE IS

IT'S SO FANTASTIC ABOUT A THIRD OF ELDAR GUNS SHOOT RAZORWIRE

THEY KNOW THE SECRET BEHIND IT AND WANT TO STOP OTHERS USING IT

>>53831714
>tfw the best way to defeat daemons is not be a fedora tipper

>>53831807
>artillery crew attacked by winged demons
>artillery load flak, bits of winged demon start falling from the sky
>demons cross the field inhumanly fast and step on the motion-tracking landmines and blow up

Seriously. Krieg does this shit all the time. Are you saying kriegers are doing it wrong?

>>53806953
Greater Daemons can shrug off artillery fire. Daemon Primarchs trade shots with ships in orbit.

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>>53831714
>deamons defeated by one space marine and a bunch of people with pointy sticks

>>53812438
OP I don't think you even understand what a daemon is.

They don't have any organs. They don't have brains. They don't have a nervous system. They are made out of energy turned into a solid form and tend to have an ichor running through them, but they don't need it. Daemons don't bleed out. Daemons don't stop fighting because they're in pain. Their skin is comparable to ballistic armor and bullets do little to them, same with shrapnel. Depending on the Daemon they either outright ignore all wounds that don't completely explode them, teleport, dodge lasers, or teleport AND hurl magic warpfire at you that will sear through tank armor.

>>53826878
Tyranid GAUNTS can survive a shot from a boltgun and loss of most major internal organs, and are strong enough to sever metal. Razor wire ain't doing shit.

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>>53831905
>Their skin is comparable to ballistic armor and bullets do little to them, same with shrapnel. Depending on the Daemon they either outright ignore all wounds that don't completely explode them, teleport, dodge lasers, or teleport AND hurl magic warpfire at you that will sear through tank armor.
>gets beat by a single space marine and a bunch of bretonnians/empire soldiers
Explain this shit

>>53825838
R-r-r-r-RETCONED

Try to keep up kiddo

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>>53831714
>A single space marine survives

COULD IT BE?

>>53831972
Melee weapons work better on Daemons than ballistic weapons because in the warp melee predates ranged warfare and is more symbolic. Because of its symbolism it holds greater potency and thus is more effective at putting down daemons. So while your lasgun which is equal to a HMG in terms of raw damage may fail to severely injure one, the bayonet will be a lot better.

>tl;dr

Memes jack. Literally memes.

>>53831940
Tyranids could also just dig under it. Or fly above it. Or wait for their own razor wire to grow and start pulling it apart. Or wait for the enzyme rains and spores to break it down into rust within a few hours. Or send in rippers. Or just send in beasts so big they barely notice it. Or just bomb the shit out of the entrenched enemy woth artillery beasts. Tyranids don't give any fucks about razor wire, it would be effective all of one times, when they send gaunts to charge through it and it slows them down enough for them to get shot. Tyranids took a planet as well defended as perturabos fortress in less than a week, there's no way razor wire is more effective than those defenses

>>53831940
>Tyranid GAUNTS can survive a shot from a boltgun and loss of most major internal organs, and are strong enough to sever metal. Razor wire ain't doing shit.

>Human BEINGS are strong enough to dig through mud. Earthen fortifications aren't doing shit

Did you know it's surprisingly hard to cut through barbed wire? It's not taut, it's all coiled up. Try slashing it and it'll just move. It's not a fucking sheet of metal. Unless tyranids have organic wirecutters they aren't going to just be able to slash it out the way.

>>53832054
Tyranid claws are capable of tearing through tank armor. They will have no problem with barbed wire. Virtually everything in 40k is a superhuman able to casually throw around objects in excess of several hundred pounds and wields melee weapons that would be obscenely heavy in the real world. Even imperial guardsmen are slightly superhuman considering that they swing 7kg chainswords for hours at end.

>>53832054
>the gaunts get sliced apart in the razor wire
>the entire first wave had acid blood
>all the razor wire dissolves
>second wave charges through easily

That's without using any of the various ways Tyranids laugh at razor wire listed a few posts up. Tyranids and daemons BTFO razor wire, give it up already

>>53803299
When it comes to ranged weapons, daemons pretty much operate on video game physics. You can't just shoot somewhere vital, you pretty much have to keep shooting until their health bar runs out, and how long that takes varies greatly between daemons

>>53818975
Did someone give a sentient piece of barbed wire a computer or something?

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>>53832072
Tyranid claws are capable of tearing through tank armor. They will have no problem with barbed wire

You know what else can tear through tank armour? Artillery shells. You know what artillery shells do jack shit against? Barbed wire.

Think for one goddamn second. Barbed wire isn't the normal style of fencing strung out on posts. There's coils of the stuff, thick dense coils up to your waist. Slash them? Good job, you've cut a few of a dozen wires in places, and you're still stepping through a tangle of tripwire that threatens to snag your feet and send you face first into the rest of the tearing mess

The rest of the wire jerks as you hit it, and you've barely cut anything at all. Meanwhile the artillery shells are starting to fall, the heavy bolters are opening up on you.

And there's three or four layers of this stuff even before you get to the first trenchworks. You really think you can just slash your claws and run through and not get entangled in this shit?

>>53832204
>thank goodness for the second and third layers of razor wire
>while the first wave was dying, the second and third wave were getting pounded by artillery and heavy bolter fire

>fearless guard members rush forwards and deploy more razor wire under fire because the stuff is fucking dirt cheap compared to pretty much anything

sounds like a good job done for me

>>53832494
>>53832204
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBnWHBZDItg

The good thing about the guard is, it's a lot of guns. Anything bypassing the razor wire can now be focused fired by lots of things with guns in a very short while because they don't care about shooting their own troops. By slowing down other grizzly creatures you can shoot at the things bypassing it first, then you can re-aim at the people who are stuck in your razor wire and shoot them, too.

>>53832494
>while your troops were focusing on the obvious distraction force eating through your barbed wire, trygons and mawlocs burst within your lines
>broods of genestealers, gaunts and raveners follow them, swarming your troops
>meanwhile, the tyranid air force is absolutely unbothered by your razor wire and has continued to bombard and harass your position
>after a few hours, spores and enzymes start corroding the razor wire while tyranid flora pulls it apart
>meanwhile, your troops are dying of toxic air unless they all have rebreathers or are inside
>meanwhile, your entire plan to use razor wire was completely countered effortlessly and the tyranids still win

When will you learn?

>>53832571
>When will you learn?
I've learned enough to hold out a few more hours compared to someone who got eaten by the first wave of goddamn tyranids, that's what.

>>53832041
>Tyranids took a planet as well defended as perturabos fortress in less than a week
As a Tyranid fan, I would love to read that story.

>>53825685
Think about it in military terms.

Tactically, demons are great :

Their warp aura or some shit give them a level of protection that most infantry only get by staying behind piles of sandbags.

They are deploy with what's basically a paradrop but without a chance for interception, getting quickly barely a few hundred meters from the enemy.
That wouldn't be too great for normal grunts, what with M40 battlefield being full of very murderous weapons.
But these guys can shrug even a direct lasgun shot 1 time out of 3 because of the warp stuff explained above.

They don't require maintenance, transport or rest :
They deploy, murder the shit out of opposition and then they are gone.

Even without the warp stuff, a single one of them is able to shrug most small arms fire because of how resilient the fuckers are.
It takes bolters or heavy bolters to have a decent chance at harming them without focusing a whole platoon on a single squad.
The plague bearers are even harder to kill.

Once in melee, they are basically space marines with less armors.
Bloodletters and Daemonettes are all about tearing you new assholes while plague bearers are just going to give you the unholy child of überebola and megapox by farting in your general direction.
Tzeench horrors don't even need to be close to rearrange reality and weld your flesh with whatever is around you. But when they do get close, each is basically a naked space marine... with 2 mini space marines bursting out of its back once you kill the damn thing !!

(cont)

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>ITT barbed wireboos
Good to know this place can still surprise me from time to time.

>>53832680
(cont)

Operationnaly, they aren't that good.

First, they don't do discipline as much as even your average mad chaos adept :
They just want FUN* while they can, which is right now. And sure, their kind of fun and what you want to be done to the enemy is roughly the same so why not ?
But you cannot hold a position with them for that very reason.

Even if you could force them to behave, they would vanish eventually in a matter of hours, days at most. And you can't be sure when that will be.

You don't want to see them so much as troops than as living ammunitions or, even better, as a strange airstrike :
Very destructive locally but once it's done, you're on your own.

Strategically, they are an odd case :

It takes A LOT of complicated logistics to bring them into the field, what with your sorcerers having to organize a ritual with very specific and strange requirements.
It is often easier to recruit a few thousands of idiots to your chaos sect than it is to summon a couple of demon.
But sometime, when in the fighting, you might want to trade a few thousands of your idiots for a couple of demon... because at least THEY will get the job done (if the job is to murder imperial scum in the most brutal and creative manner)

>>53832709
(cont)

And it's basically the same for ALL of the toys of chaos :

They are REALLY good at the tactical level, being the litteral three-way wedding of RuleOfCool, EdgyMcEdge and MurderMachine.

But they are VERY demanding and complicated on the strategic front.

Each chaos space marine needs to be selected among a thousand pure humans with peak physical and mental conditions.
And given the selection process, most other applicants will be dead or maimed by the end of it.
It then takes decades to train said space marine... and most of these new warriors die in their first few battles.
Those who survive are formidable but that's still A LOT of ressources invested for very little bang on the grand scheme of things.

Chaos is very good in 40K because 40K focus on the tactical scale.
But at the strategic level, chaos is an inefficient wreack, even when compared to the Imperium.

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>>53832467
>You know what else can tear through tank armour? Artillery shells. You know what artillery shells do jack shit against? Barbed wire.
Nigga, you retarded or something? Artillery is almost always high explosive, and unless it strikes something that isn't an MBT or isn't well made, it's going to seriously shake up a tank, but the likelihood of a successful penetration is skeptical at best. Furthermore you're a fucking idiot if you think a high explosive with shrapnel is comparable to a razor in essentially any sense to speak of. They interact with the object in question in completely different ways, what with one being an omnidirectional fireball and the other being a monomolecular blade that never loses its edge imparting most of its energy to a specific point... like any blade.

And yes gaunts and other tyranids are just going to cut clean through it because they're got enough claws on them to qualify as Shrike cosplayers. Nevermind that the big'uns are strong enough to simply rip through the wire like it was made of gossamer thread.

That's it. I'm sick of all this "Masterwork Fortification" bullshit that's going on in the d20 system right now. Barbed Wire deserves much better than that. Much, much better than that.
I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine Barbed Wire on Mars for 20 Thrones (that's about $2,400) and have been practicing with it for almost 2 years now. I can even cut slabs of solid steel with my Barbed Wire.
Imperial Magos spend years working on a single piece of Barbed Wire and fold it up to a million times to produce the finest fortifications known to mankind.
Barbed Wire is thrice as sharp as Imperial plasteel walls and thrice as hard for that matter too. Anything a plasteel wall can stop, a Barbed Wire can stop better. I'm pretty sure a Barbed Wire could easily entangle a Greater Daemon wearing full plate by just simply lying there.
Ever wonder why medieval Europe never bothered conquering the Imperium? That's right, they were too scared to fight the disciplined Imperial Guard and their Barbed Wires of destruction. Even in during the fall of Cadia, Daemons targeted the men with the Barbed Wire first because their killing power was feared and respected.
So what am I saying? Barbed Wire is simply the best fortification that the world has ever seen, and thus, require better stats in the d20 system. Here is the stat block I propose for Barbed Wire:
(One-Handed Exotic Weapon)
1d12 Damage
19-20 x4 Crit
+2 to hit and damage
Counts as Masterwork
(Two-Handed Exotic Weapon)
2d10 Damage
17-20 x4 Crit
+5 to hit and damage
Counts as Masterwork
Now that seems a lot more representative of the stopping power of Barbed Wire in real life, don't you think?
tl;dr = Barbed Wire needs to do more damage in d20, see my new stat block.

>>53831972
Fantasy daemons are far weaker then 40k ones. Just like everything else.

>>53831843
basilisks have never had anti-air ability
the hydra is their main form of AA, and they arent magic "GGnore" middle finger against flyers, especially not a bloodthirster

landmines might get one or two, but bloodletters would laugh off anything short of a krak missile, and your average frag mine is doing jack and a specialized anti-tank mine would take longer to properly bury, limiting the size or density of the minefield which would make it ineffective against charging hordes

demons can be beaten, but it will never be as simple as just putting up barbed wire and raining artillery at them

>>53803895

Deploy biological/chemical/incendiary weaponry...

If they can shrug off anthrax, mustard gas, and Molotov cocktails then frankly they deserve the satisfaction of killing me...

>>53833802
Tyranids are confirmed to survive exterminatus.

There isn't much that Tyranids can't adapt to and overcome.

Hell, Tyranids don't even need to field an army to win. If they infect the biosphere of a planet, it will soon be uninhabitable.

>>53833802
biological weapons have little effect on them, or in the case of nurgle makes them worse
chemical weapons dont always have an effect, or are no more effective than it is on normal people
incendiaries do work on them, but their natural toughness makes them more likely to survive

>>53833854
they cant adapt to the virus bomb, if only because it kills them faster than they adapt
they "adapt" to the virus bomb by killing the planet faster than they can authorize a virus bomb

>>53833885
>they cant adapt to the virus bomb,
Can't is a strong term. Haven't yet is probably more accurate.

I'm sure somewhere some Tyranid is just mutated enough to survive the virus bomb. Or some Norn Queen somewhere is working on that exact issue.

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>>53833854
In Shield of Baal, the Tyranids couldn't adapt to the Burning One. A fuckton of swarms were reduced to ashes in seconds. One after another. He even literally beat down a biotitan with ease.

All he used were his molten fists and flames. This confirms that Nids cannot adapt against fire damage. Fire is their weakness.

>>53834034
There are trees on Earth right this very moment that are resistant to fire. In fact, they need the heat to reproduce.

Are you saying that in every case Tyranids cannot adapt to fire damage?

>>53834034
not all adaptions are like X-mens darwin
if they start using fire, then they just using bio-artillery or hive guard to out range them
daemons are best adapted to by ignoring them, since they have no biomass, making an attack pointless

>>53833867

> chemical weapons dont always have an effect, or are no more effective than it is on normal people

> or are no more effective than it is on normal people

Most chemical weapons are extremely effective against normal people...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QxtB6s-4oM&spfreload=5

>>53834091
The proof is right before you. The Tyranids swarms spent hours perhaps days being roasted by the BO.

In other events, Tyranids were shown to adapt to enemy weaponry in matter of hours. The next swarm would be immune/resistant to what killed the swarm before it. Source is Hive Fleet Gorgon.

The fact that the Nids were unable to adapt against flame and intense heat just means that it's something beyond them.

>>53834101
The funny thing is that the Tyranid bio-munitions and artillery were incapable of harming the C'tan. The bio-crap kept exploding or being burn out by the BO's fire aura before they can even hit him.

This remained to be thing for the whole conflict. The C'tan remained untouched by the Tyranids.

So fire is the weakness of the Tyranids!

>>53834157
well, poisoned weapons do affect demons in the crunch
but it isnt a magic silver bullet that will make the demons just give up and leave, and their higher toughness makes them survive longer in the gas than a human would

>>53834158
You do realize the process of adaption is trial and error right? Norn Queens aren't magic, they need to actually figure out how to make fire proof Tyranids.

Given time there would've been Fire Proof Tyranids, or as >>53834101 said, a tactic would've arisen to counter the fire. Like getting some aquatic biotitan to drown the area.

>>53834158
I think it might be more of an effect of the target being a C'tan shard than that it used fire.

>>53834198
Well, the Tyranids didn't adapt in time to save them in any way. So it's one big failure

Tyranid adaptability is overrated. The Tau and Orks are more adaptive.

>>53834225
Orks by their nature don't adapt. They overcome, which is entirely different.

Tau adapt as well, but not as quickly.

>Tyranids can't adapt to fire!
>They didn't adapt in time
Changing the goal posts Anon.

>>53834255
Not changing goalpost. Just saying your baseless assumption that they will adapt in time is a flawed one. You don't know that for sure and even if that's possible then they cannot do it fast enough to save their lives. So Fire even in your scenario is the best weapon since Nids seem to have the toughest time to adapt to.

But as things stand, there is no proof that Tyranids can adapt to fire damage.

>Orks by their nature don't adapt.

Check the Rust Wars.

>Tau adapt as well, but not as quickly.

They played catch up with Gorgon. The best adaptive fleet out there.

>>53810639
Daemonettes are going to cut through this with their claws.

Tzeentch Daemons will flicker past or phase past this.

Nurgle...ever seen a glob of slime pass through a grate then reform on the other side? Yeah.

and this ain't slowing down a Juggernaught..

>>53816085
Alternatively

>daemons keep dying left and right
>men keep pouring lead and lasfire into the fuckers
>feel extreme pride in the bloodshed
>feel other compatriots reveling in the carnage
>why is my skin turning red?

>>53832054
This is actually true Swords honestly can cut this stuff nearly as well as 40kids are implying they can.

>>53835305
can't*

>>53833094
Same statblock as original copypasta, 4/10

>>53832029
So your saying that Raiden would be a better weapon that barbed wire??

>>53832709
>But you cannot hold a position with them
The position is likely covered in psychic radiation shit already and reclaiming said position is dangerous even without garrison on it

>>53833802
>biological weaponry
>against things made of raw rage, hopelessness, envy and hedonism
Are you fucking kidding me

>>53835530
it could work, even a bloodthirster could be scratched to death with poison (in the crunch, although it could simply be melting the demon in the fluff), although the more likely outcome is simply flying away from the poison and killing twice as hard

>>53834674

>Daemonettes are going to cut through this with their claws.

C-wire is springy and does not cut easily.

>Tzeentch Daemons will flicker past or phase past this.

They'd phase past most things.

>ever seen a glob of slime pass through a grate then reform on the other side?

No i've never seen a nurgle daemon do this and if it slowed them down at all it was a success.

>and this ain't slowing down a Juggernaught.

Except that in all likelyhood it will as the pro wire crowd has posted examples of it's effectivness at stopping things that get tangled up in it and the daemon's side has only ever been saying "nuh uh, khorne daemons are to physically strong"

>>53835640
>tanks can be stopped by barbed wire, the thing they were designed to get past
why the hell do we need tank traps for? just use barbed wire

juggernauts would likely simply roll over the barbed wire, the same way leman russes can, they could get trapped, but more likely they will do the job that tanks would do, simply go through it

a great unclean one could be slowed down, but it is very likely to take all the artillery hits and clear a path for other troops, and it is certainly tough enough to withstand a concentrated artillery barrage
to say nothing of plague marine support or multiple great unclean ones

while a daemonnete can be slowed down by barbed wire, they are more unlikely to simply ignore dangerous terrain, and they will be cut down if they try to charge straight through

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I think barbed wire is actually a pretty good idea. I don't think I've ever seen it used in anything 40k though.

>>53835819
scenery usually
it usually counts as dangerous terrain or straight up obstructs movement
this means that tanks cannot pass through t without risking popping a thread, but is usually more than worth it if the enemy has gotten overconfident in using it to keep you at bay

>>53835853
this makes genestealers unaffected by razor wire in previous editions
my headcannon is that they use their sub-arms to hold a section in place while their rending claws slice down in one clean motion without missing a beat

>>53815123
It does have the daemon keyword though :^)

>>53815123
Helldrake is fukin deamon you dense motherfuker.

>>53828532
>He doesn't know
Just... just read some lexicanum articles about the basic state of the Imperium.

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>>53810639
>>53834674

>Razor Wire

Kinky!

>>53836315
Pretty sure he's saying that the imperium is populated by a bunch of stupid shits.

which it is

>>53833682
>bloodletters would laugh off anything short of a krak missile
This is why I have cunningly positioned melta teams in trenches after the anti-infantry frag mines.

Bloodletters may laugh off things up to krak, but melta really is the big equaliser. And since it's attempting to solo the Guard encampment it's not going to be backed up by all its forces tied up in the razor wire.

>>53832041
>Tyranids took a planet as well defended as perturabos fortress in less than a week, there's no way razor wire is more effective than those defenses

Source? I love IW but have never heard of this

>>53832467
Even if their claws and scythes would be ineffective, there would be such a massive storm of other creatures behind the first ones that they would be crushed if they stopped. They would run over the first creatures IF they got stopped by the razor wire

>>53834158
You're retarded, the entire plot of exterminatus takes place in a few hours against one wave of tyranids that was already set on consuming the planet. They weren't expecting BA and Necrons to jump in randomly. Even then they had to leave immediately after because they knew the next wave of tyranids would have adapted to their strategies.

Also it's a fucking transcendent ctan shard shooting out flames as hot as the sun, what did you expect?

Fact:
Cadia wouldn't have fallen if they had laid down razor wire.

Fact:
If Horus dumped razor wire all over the Vengeful Spirit, Emps would've lost.

Fact:
One guardsman behind a line of razor wire can repel a hive fleet.

>>53836867
Nope, the Shard spent what amounts to hours flaying and burning the Tyranids wholesale. It jumped from one planet to the next. The C'tan travelling from one planet to the next should have taken a many days. When it arrived it began flaming the Tyranids again.

Then it travelled again in space to the Starflame platform (which is moon sized) and then bathed it in fire killing EVERY SINGLE TYRANID on it.

The Tyranids had plenty of time to adapt fire resistance but they couldn't because the most logical answer is that they cannot.

>>53836364
Its rly nice that demon of lust and degeneracy have panties and cover niples.

>>53836880
I actually agree with that first one.

>>53836956
I know you're trolling but again, the whole mission took place in a few hours and the tyranids never sent any waves adapted to what they faced. Also, burning a bunch of spores off of a space station isn't that impressive

>>53837122
>going from one planet to the next takes a few hours
>implying

And they weren't spores on the platform. There was a Tyranid presence.

>>53803299
In lore they jump out of nowhere often, they don't really do the whole marching towards the enemy thing. That and they phase out of existence, some aren't damaged by regular weapons, and there are way more than the tabletop shows.

>>53832467
>artillery wont do jack shit against razor wire
Are you retarded? You should probably look up how razor wire is commonly dealt with, as it is not a magical barrier.
If those refugees in Europe can get past it without any explosives, your argument is invalid to begin with, drop it you autist.
>inb4 I was only pretending to be retarded lol

>>53832622
>>53836563
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Forgefane

>>53837216
Thanks Anon.

Is that the whole story or is there a narrative floating around the internet somewhere?

>>53835417
Absolutely. Raiden is a one-man army who would shred Bloodthirsters.

>>53837338
There is an elusive page floating around the internet that has the whole story, but I have no idea what it's from and can't seem to find it on google. If I had to guess it was from an old white dwarf article

>>53838598
White Dwarf, yeah. Its cited on the lexicanum. Even checked The Black Pearl to see if I couldn't snag it and post it here, but no luck.

>>53809515
Are they made of a non Newtonian fluid? A high momentum impact would make them impenetrable but a slower cutting blade can cut through them

>>53810639
They just walked through bullets, whats that gonna do?

>>53815294
Crunch isnt canon. Its there so you can play a game.

>>53834317
Tyranids literally have creatures that spew fire themselves though. They can just make a wave of nids with carapace made out of the fireproof material they use for the inner bits of a pyrovore.

So yeah, super hot fire c'tan worked for a couple hours. After that you'd probably start seeing waves of fireproof nids and weapons swapped over to stuff like spike rifles and impaler cannons that just shoot big shards of bone that could survive intense heat, rather than tiny poisonous bugs.

Either way using a fucking C'tan as evidence for Nids being weak to fire is absolutely retarded.

>>53828219
what this anon said

>>53838720
It'd tangle them up.

>>53837141
>implying

Do you know what a C'tan is?

>>53826878
Literally eat it.
Literally every faction laughs at wire.

>>53824856
Guy fucked up by shitposting too hard.

>>53810639
>an immortal being of fire and hate, created in the very storm of gestalt emotion, without a concept of time or death, will be stopped by a cheap length of wire and some razor blades

>>53812438
>valid vehicle sapping tactic
what about "demons" scream "vehicles" to you
any demon of average agility will be able to jump over the razor wire, or simply melt it with hellfire. Stop thinking that demons work like people. They do not.

>>53817765
>outdated ever since the end of the first war
anon trenches are kind of a staying tactic of warfare, we didnt just try it out once and go "welp that was something, lets never use it again."
you're thinking of "trench warfare" which is a form of warfare. Trenches will always be useful.

>>53838807
But they are just walking trough it?

Why are people responding unironically to the OP's question?

Do you not understand that the op is a shitpost and the purpose of this thread is to shitpost?

>>53837000
>implying wanting to remove it's loincloth doesnt generate more lust than just having a visible demongina

>>53818975
>you can stop a tank with barbed wire
That's pretty cool, actually.

>>53838790
>a couple hours.

It bloody takes Imperial ships and hive ships days to travel from one planet to the next within the same system. Why do you assume that the C'tan travelled from planet A to planet B in hours? That's flawed reasoning.

>>53839643
non the same anon but maybe because C'tan are god-like creatures? You implying that nids are very vulnerable against fire. I think that's more like they are vulnerable against C'tan because they're pratically invincible and powerfull to an absurd point.

>>53840423
C'tan were fundamental parts of the physical universe before they were shattered by the Necron's betrayal. The one or two C'tan that were actually killed damaged reality.

They're not God-like - they were actual God on the same level of the Big Four or the Hive Mind appears to be.

>>53832072
Now with 8th edition, bog standard humans can tear through all tank armour with their bare hands.

>>53838774
Daemons get shot all the time in the fluff too dude, they aren't completely immune to guns
>>53839343
I'm actually OP, I didn't think this thread would spawn the razor wire meme and the shitposting just got out of control and now this threads probably gonna autosage. I've been defending daemons and Nids ever since the first razor wire shit started popping up

>>53841732
>Daemons get shot all the time in the fluff too dude, they aren't completely immune to guns

Nobody said they are immune. They are more resistant to guns and more vulnerable to melee.

>razorwire is just springy lol it'll bounce around and shit

>no, no, that monomolecular blade that vaporizes anything it touches won't do anything to it lol

>>53816085
Don't forget the fucking Changeling, who can take the form of one of your officers and order a full scale retreat in a sector where you're successfully beating them back, or a charge into a killing field of daemons, or sabotage your communications equipment or power generators. He won't show up for every battle, but he's scary enough to have show up occassionally.

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Bruh the eldar have weaponized razor wire, everyone else is so fucked

Is it possible for daemons to lose a war of attrition?

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What's the deal with Furies?

>>53844152
there is no deal with furies

>>53835530
40k is weird. Sometimes you have daemon skulls to get covered in silver as a trophy, sometimes a Grey Knight can hold a daemonette head. They seem to have at least a facsimile of a biological form - maybe it's part of working within the materium, you have to at least act living and follow the rules of living beings. Otherwise they wouldn't be killable.

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>>53803299

>>53838790
also, it's a fragment of a fucking space god -- why the fuck would its fire be normal? These are the entities that hurl "transdimensional thunderbolts" and can manipulate antimatter and time itself! They break the laws of physics over their proverbial knees just by farting around!

>>53843898
They lost to the Tyranids on Shadowbrink, but the Shadow disrupted their ability to summon reinforcements.

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>>53836880
>Cadia wouldn't have fallen if they had laid down razor wire.

sure, razor wire stops light infantry and even armor, but it cant stop 7ft tall (manlet) power armored super soldiers

cadia had a million miles of razor wire, but its so mundane nobody mentions it

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>>53846502
>daemons get BTFO when they can't cheat and summon practically endless troops from their unassailable home base
Sounds about right

>>53848151
Unfortunately Chaos don't care if it's a fair fight or not fuckhead.

>>53848667
It's too bad that the tyranids have no concept of fair fights (even daemons will job just for lulz) which makes it fair against daemons. And when it was a fair fight, the daemons spent days getting shot at by tyranids with no reinforcements and no way out, and suffered from bad rolls on their daemonic instability due to shadow in the warp. It was completely humiliating, the GUO got BTFO by zoans, the LoC ran away like a bitch, the KoS failed on the charge due to massed Artillery. Only the bloodthirster went down like a boss, wrestling 3 tyrgons even as he was sucked back into the warp.

Should also note, in that fight the tyranids also didn't have access to their nearly endless numbers, the daemons blocked off their spores from entering or transformed them. The Nids had to rely strictly on what they could make in the planet

>>53846526
I doubt that a csm ist stronger than a tank

>>53825685
That's why the Grey Knights and the Ordo Malleus exist. 'Standard' warfare isn't much use against daemons, you need supernatural anti-daemon artefacts and powers to effectively fight them.

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There is literally Razor Wire in the OP picture, holy fucking shit. And look, the daemons are standing right in it getting into melee with the guardsmen without any major noticeable injuries. Razorwirefag BTFO. The meme is dead, bury it

>>53817107
You fundamentally misunderstand how Orks work. Reread the 3e codex. It explains it better.

>>53803600
Daemons dont wade across the battlefield, Daemons appear on your artillery piece before appearing on top of your general.
Then they walk through the bunker walls to your command and kill the rest of them too.

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>>53848151
>>53846502
Don't bullshit. I read 8th ED lore. It says that Khorne launched a Great Blood Crusade through out the stars led by his greatest of daemon generals.

The Khornate Crusade smashed into Hive Fleets and eradicated them from existence, and continued unstopped to destroy tomb worlds and Imperial worlds alike.

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>>53850012
If the Hivemind can stop daemons, then why didn't it save the hive fleets from the Blood Crusade?

Checkmate, nids.

>>53850022
Khorne is literally the only god who does well against Nids, must be the anti-sorcery. Khorne doesn't give a shit about warp shenanigans, he just wants those fancy tyranid skulls

>>53835640
Id daemonettes can cut through terminator armor Im sure they can cut through wire.

>>53816678
Daemons never should have bee made their army, as this thread pointed out short of a random warp rift appearing (Which I admit does happen) daemons simply wont appear on their own and need to be summoned. Thankfully we can run daemons and csm together now.

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>>53831818
>Tfw Warp Spider spam
Stop it! I cant take anymore razorwire!

>>53832467
In ww1 they used artilley to clear barbed wire fields for infantry advances. Artillery has been countering barbed wire literally since its origin. Even then in 1914 we were capable of deploying specialists to cut through wire fields.

Some part of me cant get over how absurdly you're sticking to your guns over razor wire being the greatest battlefield innovation ever, its absolutely hysterical.

>>53832774
>Most of these warriors die within their first few battles
Lolwut? You're aware being wounded isn't the same as being killed, right?

You're aware that even if you blow a space marine in half he's probably still good if you build him new legs, right?

Unless the CSM lose the battle and loyalists get to fire a plasma shot into the faceplate of every wounded CSM most of any chaos forces asartes casaulties will recover, quickly.

>>53836172
N-no anon see cause its the codex Chaos: Space marines
That means its not part of the daemon army, duh.

>>53843898
Yeah, the defenders are sill alive when the warp rift closes. That could be a few hours, or a few centuries.

>>53812438
>Nurgle daemon walks up to razorwire
>Razorwire rusts and disintegrates due to epic levels of BO

>Slaaneshi daemon walks up to razorwire
>Somersaults over it and lands in a way that presents it's curvaceous behind to a nearby machinegun nest

>Khornate daemon walks up to razorwire
>Charges straight the fuck through it, razorwire shredded by horns, brass spikes or melted by lava blood

>Tzeentch daemon walks up to razorwire
>Razorwire spontaneously transforms into a row of ducks, which burst into magical flame

>>53844152
I imagine they have the intelligene and force of will of like a goblin or something similar. Very weak daemons that arent able to maintain their presence in the materium well.

Im guessing you'd see them be opportunity hunters on the fringe of a daemon force, picking away at opportune wounded or otherwise already hampered targets.

>>53836379
Is this heresy I smell?

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>>53832009
No, Spehs Muhreens are pussies compared to DOOM marine.

>>53832467
This kiddo just has a fetish for the stuff
Stop attacking his waifu guys
Let him wrap his dick in the stuff like he wants and leave him alone

Though this whole thread could have been avoided with an early suggestion of:
"Demons use space magic in place of conventional weapons/armor to balance things out"

I mean fuck all the rules are right in the game. On an open field, guys with guns can deal most of the damage they need to to a demon host before they arrive. Plenty of people love gunline comps. But when you factor terrain, deep striking units teleporting into your line, and magical resilience it gets more complicated.

While you're cumming all over your wire be careful that Tzeench doesn't turn the whole thing into a swarm of razorwire shitting spiders

>>53837000
It's so you still have to guess exactly what's underneath

>>53850022
Khorne will run out of followers long before the Hive Mind runs out of nids. Khorne gains nothing from the death of nids, and every daemon and soldier he sends out is diverted from fighting elsewhere, everything he corrupts and forms is part of his power. Khorne would be the last Chaos god to fall but he would certainly fall.

>>53831987
Lies
>>53831972
I like how no one can't explain shit

>>53850278
They aren't though, only soul grinders are. The CSM daemon engines are daemons bound to material machines. soul grinders are made fully in the warp and come through the warp portals with the daemons.

>>53853625
>The CSM daemon engines are daemons bound to material machines. soul grinders are made fully in the warp and come through the warp portals with the daemons.
The correct answer is that they dont have the Daemon Faction Keyword. Which I am actually surprised at

>>53851464
>Lies
Nope, the re-issued Forge World books got rid of all those stats on realizing they dun fucked up. Nevermind we have numerous instances from the Black Library that completely contradicts it. 300m of conventional steel doesn't survive gigajoules of energy.

>>53803299
So what happens when Daemons confront someone who is immune to chaos, like The Exorcist chapter?

>>53854881
They kill them.

>>53854881
They just kill them, not even blanks are immune to a sword in the face

>>53816190
IIRC it's because it's a weapons "soul"/age and craftsmanship which really matters against them, and most melee weapons are more carefully made than bullets or lasbolts.

>>53825685
They're native to another dimension and have trouble arriving. They also don't actually care that much about what happens in ours because they've been fighting each other in the warp forever, so when they do show up it's basically to kick over some sand castles on holiday.

>>53833802
Yeah anthrax is really gonna stop something made out of anger and the platonic ideals of murder and sharp objects

>>53834193
Don't try to justify anything in the fluff with tabletop rules.

>>53809437
Can you run faster than beings who teleport via an other dimension? Don't think so.

>>53840478
C'tan are literally entities with godlike powers that can manipulate time and eat stars. Flying through space at near-light speed would be a baseline requirement for such a creature.

It would take a few minutes, tops.

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>>53809515
>that daemons are vulnerable to bladed weapons
So THAT is why daemons never fare well when they decide to drop in on an Ork hulk inside the Warp....

>>53825685
>so where does any resistance at all to chaos come from
Orks, both in the Materium and inside the Warp at the god level.

Gork n' Mork simply just shrug off whatever hits the other gods land, then laugh and punch 'em into next week, while Orks are known for making the lives of daemons a living hell (the kind they don't like). See Tuska Daemon-Killa for Exhibit A of that.

>>53850057
>only god who does well against Nids
Gork n' Mork would like a word with you, since the Orks have been flat-out IGNORING the Shadow in the Warp in the Octarius War since before the Eye Terror split open.

Basically, if you're a 'war god' (Khorne, Gork, Mork), your guys are going to have an edge over the Hive Mind in that regard.

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>>53832467
>>53818975

>>53803299
>>53810639
>>53812438
>>53832467
>imagine being so autistic you were the source of a new meme

>>53804119
Nigga; if we could deploy millions upon millions of people to form planet wide trenches during WW2, we would have.