Shadow war armageddon general /swag/

Old OP post
>https://mega.nz/#!m9BTkKCC!7k0JPHqH0hQpcdV9ZjX5CqrHIRR-ujkDsrVKdmDKrcc

>https://mega.nz/#!0tcUTSLI!CbZfDWqYYe0C2sIDLNlHCh1Wj9I6uihERaaGEb6wk3c

Kill Team rules:
>https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/ShadowWar/SWA_Killteams_ENG.pdf

Blank roster sheet:
>https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/ShadowWar/ENG_SWARoster.pdf

New mission for 3+ players
>https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/40k8_SW_Armageddon_Grab_the_Cache.pdf

FAQ
>https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/05/shadow-war-armageddon-your-questions-answered/

One man army stuff
>https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/03/shadow-war-armageddon-one-man-armies/
Also to >>53798924 I'm at work so I can't post the file directly; see here though http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1496989886284.pdf

Shadow war is a really good game; shame it's going to be dead for a while due to 8th. My club has openly said they're dropping it and picking it up again once they're all sick of 8th ed.


Feels bad man.

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>>53799530
Sucks my dude. My pals and I have just gotten started. I kickstarted some terrain that isn't due to ship until October at the earliest, and unfortunately the odds are good my buddies will have lost interest by then. Still, I'm gonna try to ride the skirmish high for now.
Anyone wanna tell me about their Kill Team?

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>>53799703
This is my WIP on a harakoni warhawk kill team. In having trouble coming up with names for them right now, it looks like harakoni names might be similar to Japanese? Does any have any resources I could use to look that up?

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>>53799703
So far I have two teams, guard and grey knights.

My guard I still need to fluff out, so far I've just been calling them Catachan Concrete Jungle Fighters, heres a shitty pic.

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>>53799970
Also a shot of my ogryn specialist and an armorcast terrain kit.

>>53799887
Just so you know I started a IG killteam. Now ots a fucking full blown regiment. Fuck me and my bank account.

They look hecka cool btw.

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>>53798924
>tfw got into Shadow War
>Totally had enough to play right from the go
>but wanted to make some small super intricately modeled team for the game
>spend so much time collecting bits, modelling and making extra teams by the time I'm ready to paint them, the game's almost fallen out of popularity
>go ahead and sink some more money into a Death Guard/ IW Death Guard Killteam anyways

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>>53799970
>Lady Catachan
NICE ! Well, her name is obviously Vasquez, and she's best buddies with one of the other specialists.
>>53799887
Very cool, are those Pig Iron heads? Did you go Carapace on everybody?

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>>53799703
Build "Toilet Terrain". Really cheap, really easy, really fun. I put together 12 building over a couple of hours on two nights. I pretty much used the same salad bowl for my circle template and used a box flaps for a lot of the bridges. Balsa wood ladders are a pain to cut all the rungs but anyone can make them with Elmer's glue.

The only practical complaint is that toilet tubes are 4 inches instead of 3 in for most standard Necromunda terrain. This can leave attackers a little short when trying to climb up a level. In theory this is a problem but in play I haven't found it to be an issue.

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Best Home Brew rules ever.

When Gangs fight Kill Teams there are a few simple rules to remember.

BUSINESS AS USUAL IN THE HIVE: Easy rules for Gangs in SWA
#1. If a Necromunda Gang fights a Kill Team then you roll the scenario on the SWA scenario table and follow those scenario rules.
#2. Ratskin Scouts and Ratskin Maps still provide local knowledge and can still modify the SWA scenario table.
#3. Any promethium caches awarded for playing a SWA scenario are still awarded to a Necromunda Gang.
#4. Promethium caches double as Isotopic Fuel Rods for gangs and can be used to turn any territory into a settlement, stashed, or sold at half cost for 25 credits.
#5. If a gang loses 3 to 1 casualties in a Kill Team Fight or an Ambush the gang must forfeit a settlement or its most valuable territory to the Kill Team, the Kill Team loots the territory for an additional prometheum cache.
#6. Gangs roll on their own injury chart, use their own experience progression, use their own skill tables, and collect income from territories. Gangs disregard Underdog and Giant Killer Bonus when fighting Kill Teams.
#7. Any forces of the Imperium can report gangs and make them roll on the Outlaw chart with the -3 for fighting forces of the Imperium.
#8. Necromunda gangs can also fight other Necromunda gangs in a campaign involving SWA Kill Teams. Gangs use all the standard rules for gangs fighting gangs. They roll on the Necromunda or Outlaw scenario chart as normal. No promethium caches are awarded when gangs fight gangs.
#9. Gangs use Necromunda ammo rolls to represent their poorly maintained equipment. Use SWA sustained fire rules.
#10. THE GENERAL RULE, if you are playing a gang use the Necromunda rule for it.

If I wanted to be a WAACer, what killteams would I play?

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>>53802128
An anon in a precious thread shared some of his ideas, this is one. Cheap hair churlers cut into small pieces for ladders

>>53802376
Harlequins or 'Nids, they're obnoxious shits to fight against

I wonder if red dots are too cheap... feels like they should be a luxury item, considering all the teams that can get them are BS 4.

Anyone do a lone operstive game yet? Eversor looks insane, but even an uplevelled Troupe Master or Inquisitor could potentially be very powerful.

>>53803947
>orks
>BS4
wat

>>53801551
Yeah, pig iron heads and backpacks.

I went carapace all the way on my kill team. It cost me an extra body, but saved my butt in my first mission- 0 casualties so far.

>>53802128
Very nice terrain, I spent last weekend making a bunch of cardboard terrain also before spraying it up. It looks decent enough to play a few home games with.

How should I field my skitarii Rangers killteam? Tried putting transuranics, but they are rather expensive and gets knocked by autocanon. Plasmas have very short shooting range and did literally nothing usefull. Can you give me any advices?

>>53804867

Change them to Vanguard.

Other than that, A Plasma Caliver can deter people getting too close, while a Transuranic Arquebus can hit things the next table over.

>>53804897
But there are no Vanguards in SWA...

165 points and 1 slot of specialists does not worth for distraction carnifex effect. IMHO.

Cheapest possible, but competitive, squad combination? I'm thinking a box of Necron Immortals is the cheapest you can manage.

>>53804093
>troupe master
the solitaire was the first lone operative, really

>>53804867
Calivers are solid weapons. Use your long range rifles wisely, as you are meat in melee. 4+ armor is pretty good actually.

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>>53802223
Or you can just use this pdf (not my work) which gives you the necromunda gang archetypes but generical so you can fit your gang war in any hive, or make swag gangs like the Daubers.

>>53805011
I think the cheapest is Tau desu. You get everything you will ever need in one box. It's just a matter of whether you can into tactics enough to play them well.

>>53802376
Harlequins or 'Nids. Personally, I'm more inclined towards 'Nids, as they're fast, tough, and can dominate both at range and close up.
Harlequins are flouncy elf motherfuckers with jump packs and 4+ invulnerable saves, but most of them only have one wound so keeping your distance and fragging them can still work out. 'Nids can wind up with long range fire support, movement 6 close combat beasties, *and* 4+ saves as well as their high T and Wounds characteristics.
>>53804093
I ordered a Solid Snake miniature to use as Sly Marbo. Still waiting on him in the mail.
>>53804389
Love Pig Iron, they make Guard look fantastic. Made my cultists from jamming together guard, Empire Flagellants, and Kolony Militia heads and the old mutation sprue.

>>53802746
The end sections would make good hatch openings too.

>>53801381
i know this feel
>big Armageddon group where i was
>move to a city with a GW store
>nobody is playing SW
this is after i built and painted one of every kill team and even had one have all their stuff magnetized.

What counters deathmarks?

>>53807480
good close combat or just staying close together.

>>53802746

>>53802128
Neat! I always love seeing people's "low tech" terrain. I had an excellent couple games of Mordheim on vacation once just using books and old cd cases as terrain.

My complaint is less that I don't have access to terrain (we've got an awesome FLGS), but more that I've already ordered a small hive city and odds are good that by the time I get it my pals will be playing something else. Oh well, maybe its arrival will spur a second campaign.

>>53798924

Hey guys, have a few games under my belt now, just meditating. I'm playing IG Vets versus a Gray Knights team. Not necessarily getting shellacked but having a hard time since a shot basically means I am losing a model. I obviously have copious pinning ability, but he recovers 66% early from pinning so it's not super easy to count on.

I think the mistake I've made so far is splitting my army up too much -- he ends up getting one GK to a flank or something of the like and taking them down.

I have a feeling the best choice for me is to basically move-hide-move until I can ambush him with as many models as possible and hope the plasmagunner clutches it out.

Any tips or advice for fighting them? All my victories have been by forcing a bottle from him.

>>53802223
You should not hamfistedly attempt to jam something that is not intended for use in one game into another, that's dumb. You may as well try and use an age of sigmar army in 40k.

>>53809289
A single plasma gun shot has as high a chance of carving his guy to pieces as a psychannon shot does to you. Plasma really equalizes everything.

That said, IG's probably a stronger team than GKs because of 3 plasma gunners and that alone.

>>53809289
plasma red dot and telescopic sights

What sort of guns should I take on gunners? Heavy or special?
I should prioritize shot count right? So less lascannon and more sustained fire, and so on right

>>53809695
autocannon seems very powerful like plasma but better and heavy bolter is nice. tho a lascannon can be nice for missions where you need to blow something up.
i lost a match in the second turn because the enemy war band used lascannons to destroy my door turn 1 and ran turn 2

>>53809695
and i personally haven't delt with the missile launcher.

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>>53798924
Here is a version with improved formatting. I don't have any public file storage though.

Dumb as rocks ork list coming through
Clan: Bad Moon

Nob w/ Kombi shoota, red dot, & reload
3 Boys with shootas
Spanner with big shoota, red dot
5 yoofs with shootas

1000pts on the dot unless I missed something. How's it look? I could settle for slightly less dakka since I know I'm not too good in melee with this setup

>>53810167
red dot is almost always worth it.
you are orks even setup for shooting you still good in a fight tho i might trade some yoofs for a spanner boy and the other heavy weapon.
its good to buy your specialist at the start because it will cost you promethium to get them later.

I'm amused at how reliable unreliable is.

You first need to make an ammo check (16.6% of rolls)
Then you need to snakeyes (2.7% of rolls)

That means at any time, your chance of an unreliable weapon screwing you when firing a bullet is 0.45%. Less than half of one percent. It'll happen on average once every 200-odd shots.

WELP, LETS FULL POWER ALL THESE PLASMAS BOYS.

So I'm just getting into SW:A, and I'm building a list of Tyranids and I just have a quick question, when the unit description says they come with Scything Talons, that means I don't have to add 10 points to their cost from the equipment, right? Only add the 10 points if I'm giving them a second pair of Scything Talons?

>>53811806
Full list I'm planning on running, just three models to start:
Alpha - Pair of Bone Swords, Adrenal Glands, Acid Blood, Extended Chitin Carapace (420 points)

Warrior - Bone Sword + Lash Whip, Adrenal Glands (310 points)

Gun Beast - Death Spitter (270 points)

>>53810282
I'll probably switch a spare boy out for an under equipped spanner or something then thanks

>>53811510
Yes but plasma is devastatingly overpowered either so its ok because if it wasn't guard would be fucked. maybe if plasma wasn't good we could finally get heavy weapons for the IG

>>53809548
Noone in their right mind use 3 plasma tho

>>53811806
>Only add the 10 points if I'm giving them a second pair
Yes. They come with one pair free

>>53812553
Why do you say that?
Plasma gun's cheap. Shoots 1d3 S7 shots that basically ignore armor.
Alternatives are the much shorter ranged one shot melta
The good, but spammable in other faction sniper rifle,
The ultra expensive, useful grenade launcher that is always slightly awkward to use due to poor range

What's not to like about the plasma gun for IG squads?

>>53809695
Shot count is good against most armies but I would recommend taking a heavy weapon like a Lascannon so you can BTFO any Nid or Inquisitor that pops up.

>>53809817 Like this anon also said, it's nice to have a weapon that can complete missions and kill big baddies as well.

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>>53809695
Conventional wisdom says that the Lascannon is very much a specialized weapon. It's good for destroying objectives, and if your opponent brings a Terminator it's nice to have, but for most opponents what you want is sustained fire or blasts. A single, big heavy shot will at maximum take out one guy a turn, while a heavy bolter or a plasma gun can be useful for suppressing an enemy advance or doing some overwatch work.
I haven't tried it yet, but flamers seem double useful as far as being cheap and good for work against both horde armies and Harlequins (templates don't take any penalties from their sprinting shenanigans).

>>53811510
Yeah, at first I was a little worried, but then when I actually looked at the rules I realized shooting yourself with your plasma gun is pretty dang rare.

>>53809289
Hiding is a good choice against elite teams. Hug cover, hide, overwatch if you think he'll push, and try to mass your fire against one or two targets to bring them down and force bottle checks.

>>53812553
plasma is great i always take 3 plasma if i want to be a dick.

>>53812614
I said "three". I would field maybe one with my cadians but there are other weapons as well that are good. Versatility is best.

>>53813217
but the plasma is versatile the only thing else i would say is to bring a melta for nids and terminators funny thing is you can carry any weapon you can put on the model so why not carry both

How well do lone operatives like sly marbo or the assassins actually work? Has anyone played any lone operative one man army missions?

>>53813269
saw the assassin shit all over a full squad of grey knights

>>53812749
I've just added a plasma to my wolf scout squad; not had a chance to test it out in battle though.

Is it worth trading out a heavybolter for 2 units with plasma and flamer?

>>53813269
>How well do lone operatives like sly marbo or the assassins actually work?
they're pretty much guaranteed to take apart anyone if they make it into combat, but getting there requires a bit of luck

3W, dodge and the synskin is bonkers tough, but far from untouchable considering they're the only thing on the table you have to worry about

>>53813457
id start with the heavy bolter then when you get the points give the heavy bolter a plasma as a back up. i play IG so idk whats best for SMS but if i could take heavy weapons as IG i could take heavy bolter over a plasma.

>>53813613
Plasma is so good though, why use other things? 3 guns can output an average of 6 hits at a high enough strength to count as high impact. High impact has really done work for me before.

>>53813663
Plasma is the best all rounder but it has it's downsides.
It doesn't have the range of a HB or fire rate and doesn't deal the multiple wounds you need against some teams.

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Trying to get a SWA campaign going with some buddies and I'm doing Orks. Anyone have some tips for using 'em?

I've got my Wolf Scout team finished for kill team and I've played a few games (Heavily enjoyed them)

I'm thinking of getting a few more teams up and running so my friends can use them when they come over. Any recommendations? I was thinking inquisition so I can have fun kitbashing some cool looking models; are Tau any good?

>>53813250
>why not carry both
Yes, why not. However by versatility I mean different weapons. One single weapon can only be versatile to a point. A plasma can never beat a toxic sniper when it comes to wounding probability or a heavy flamer when it comes to hit probability, for example.

>>53813663
Depends on your local meta. You probably face a lot of opponents that require heavy impact to deal with.

>>53814039
Nob, nine boyz and ten yoofs naked with shanks.

>>53814364
>are Tau any good?
Tau are tricky to play right, but they're not as bad as some people claim.

Guys last time I played I got wrecked by a chaos terminator a guy had spent a prometheum cache on.


Luckily I beat the guy by making him fail a bottle test; but his terminator was unstoppable.

What advice would you guys give to take it out? It has a 4+ invuln save I believe. I play Wolf Scouts so I have access to plasma, Flamer and Melta also.

>>53814664
Maybe melta then. What does he arm his termie with?

>>53814858
Some kind of axe, power axe or something? And a bolt gun. It was 2 weeks ago to be honest and it's slipped my memory, plus I don't have my rulebook with me right now to check.

>>53815342
Bolt pistol maybe?

>>53811853
Ouch. I started with an Alpha, a Warrior and two new spawn. All with adrenals, carapace and double scytals.

It can be hard to get new critters without burning promethium caches, so more bodies is better at the start. Get the 2 FNG's through their three games, then start looking to buy guns for whichever model in your team has the highest BS.

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>>53809332
Its not even close to the same thing as an AoS Vs. 40K comparison.

Necromunda and SWA share 98% of the same tabletop rules. There is essentially no problem with gangs fighting Kill Teams on the tabletop.

The rule addressed here resolve any discrepancies between the two campaign systems. And even advancement differences are leveled out when you take away Underdog and Giant Killer Bonus for gangs when they fight Kill Teams. When not getting bonuses many gangs level out to one ganger advancement a turn (Juves get more). This is the same advancement rate as Kill Teams. Once you level out any supposedly unbalancing advancement discrepancies, arguments against the two campaign systems operating parallel to each other fall apart.

The skill tables are almost identical, the point cost are almost identical (all basic and pistols), the troop costs are relatively the same (IGKT free flak armor...big fucking deal?) and the tabletop rules are have NO tactical differences.

Let's be clear, Kill Teams are fighting on Necromunda gang territory not the other way around. The only thing that is hamfisted is the way Kill Teams are trying to enter this game system without a viable campaign model.

If 40K players want to play Necromunda, I say BRING IT ON. I'm not afraid of any of the bullshit 40K can throw at us but 40K players are scared shitless they will get their asses handed to them by a gang using classic skirmish tactics.

ALL NECROMUNDA GANGS CAN PLAY CAMPAIGNS IN SHADOW WAR. There is no valid argument against this. Anyone complaining otherwise simply doesn't understand the rules.

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>>53805427
Gangs already have a campaign system that has worked great for 20 years, why would you want to use this hamfisted attempt to make them into a military Kill Team?

I'm really not trying to be offensive but the two systems can operate parallel to each other without any issue.

Gangs on average make about 45 points(creds) a game, compared to kill teams which always get 100 points. The Promethium/Isotopic Fuel Rod rule gives a long term benefit to gangs for fighting Kill Teams but the hard cash they can get for cache/rods is restricted (25 creds). At the end of the day gangs benefit from a lot more equipment selection but still not enough to outweigh military hardware like power armor.

Let gangs do "business as usual" and let Kill Teams fight an all out military conflict in the hive. Kill Teams aren't autonomous like gangs in the hive. Kill Teams operate as part of a larger military force and can call on outside resources. The two archetypes are on the same hive setting and can fight each other but each has different objectives.

And eventually lets figure out a decent campaign system for autonomous warbands in the Inquisimunda system. Because again there is a difference between military unit Kill Teams and Warbands persewing autonomous agendas.

>>53802223

Seems kinda pointless to have some teams running on kill-team rules, some on necromunda territory and such.

>>53805427

Randomized points and keeping leftovers seem like pointless holdovers from necromunda.

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>>53817041
Except baseline irregular humans using a sci-fi weapons inventory get to thrash 40K units.

>>53817041
It's not pointless; it's representing the fact that gangs are actually buying/making their gear instead of asking HQ for it.

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>>53817021
The Territory system is actually what gave Necromunda a strategic feel. Mordheim was a great game but its campaign system suffered because it never invested you in the ground you were fighting on.

Gang territory income generation is really what makes a great role playing campaign system and is what SWA is sorely lacking. But I like Kill Teams for what they are, military units invading the hive.

>>53817166
>Gang territory income generation is really what makes a great role playing campaign system and is what SWA is sorely lacking. But I like Kill Teams for what they are, military units invading the hive.

Then either have everyone using it or no one using it. Rather than 'Half the groups don't give a shit about it'.

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>>53817130
Exactly, this guy gets it. It underlines a fundamental difference between autonomous gangs and Kill Teams in a military hierarchy.

And let me add people who run gangs have no problem using the old campaign system. They have been doing it for 20 years and it has worked great. It may take an extra 10min in post battle but the roleplaying benefits and equipment inventory are well worth the effort (Ok, the experience progression is a little tedious).

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>>53817203
Why is this either or? The two types of units operate differently and have different objectives. just deal with it.

>>53817261
>Why is this either or? The two types of units operate differently and have different objectives. just deal with it.

Because it's pointless busywork that doesn't add any extra strategic considerations if only some people are actually using it.

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>>53817203
One type of fighting force is built using the local material at its disposal. The other is an invading force trying to achieve military objectives. Let them each do their own thing.

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In-progress Arbites rules for SWAG. While inspired by the necromunda version they are not really designed to be a 1:1 translation to the new rules.

>>53817297
>The other is an invading force trying to achieve military objectives.

That's not remotely true with genestealer cultists. They are closer to gangers.

>>53817297
Ah so this is what British people think about themselfs. Cool.

>>53810106

The special operatives really need an overhaul. Having their thing be 'X random advancements' just makes them tedious to generate and makes no effort to make sure they can actually use the equipment properly (Like how all Scum have two pistols but don't get the ability to use them unless you manage them on the rolls)

>>53816687

>If 40K players want to play Necromunda, I say BRING IT ON. I'm not afraid of any of the bullshit 40K can throw at us but 40K players are scared shitless they will get their asses handed to them by a gang using classic skirmish tactics.
>ALL NECROMUNDA GANGS CAN PLAY CAMPAIGNS IN SHADOW WAR. There is no valid argument against this. Anyone complaining otherwise simply doesn't understand the rules.

Don't you have Warmachine's Page 5 to be wanking over?

That and there is the pretty valid argument of 'They are not part of Shadow War: Armageddon's rules'.

>>53817306
>cyber mastiffs and grapplehawks use count as chainswords
Yikes. Are the free parries intentional?

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>>53817284
It adds a lot of strategic considerations. Territory is a strategic consideration and Kill Teams get to loot it for promethium cache if they thrash a gang in the hive.

Kill Teams in essence are terrorizing and looting the locals.

It give the whole campaign a shit load more character and it doesn't take away from the Kill Team's objectives.

If you aren't playing a gang none of this will affects you. But it brings a solidly established system into the play against 40K military units. Its essentially the ultimate revenge of the underdog.

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>>53817321
You are correct indeed. But you know Genestealer cults have a long established place in Necromunda. I would venture to say the Genestealer cults are still more of a Necromunda gang than a 40K army.

>>53817414

Yeah. It's to represent the manoeuvrability and ability for those animals to tackle you to the ground without needing extra rules for it. Fighting birds and big dogs is kinda awkward.

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>>53817353
I'm a yank, what you talking about? DIY is still the best way to live though.

>>53817427
>Its essentially the ultimate revenge of the underdog.

Well, if the win.

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>>53817381
WOW, now who is wanking over rules.

>>53816961
>why would you want to use this hamfisted attempt to make them into a military Kill Team?
Read the pdf, you muppet. They're not military.

>>53817508

Wanking over rules? Like what? The fact that necromunda is another game?

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>>53817487
Win or lose, playing a gang against a 40K unit is its own reward. Except Orks fuck those guys.

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>>53817543
You guys are scared shitless of Necromunda gangs and that's the truth. 40K players don't have a tactical bone in their body. You guys have spent so many years smashing troop waves into each other you can't even remember what a crossfire looks like.

>>53817599
>>53817508

Chill out Sperg; there is no need for so much hostility.

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>>53817522
How about those rules suck and they aren't even official and the Necromunda campaign system kicks ass and you better just get ready to play against old fashioned Necromunda gangs with 20 years of rules precedence and an active player base backing them.

Mic drops...

>>53817427
The systems are still different enough for there to be balance issues if you just jam them together. The pdf that ports the archetypes into swag takes this into consideration. Also it takes into account that it's a different fucking planet and the necromunda gangs don't exist there, so the rules are generic enough to build your own gang ecology around. Maybe include Dauber gangs that are actually mentioned in the swag fluff.

>>53817660
Multi pass

>>53817599
I don't play 40k. I only play munda and swag. I still think you are an idiot trying to mash the two systems together. Either house rule 40k factions into munda, or munda gangs into swag. Fucking pick one.

>>53817599

How does 'It's not part of the game' mean that someone is scared?

>>53817728

>Either house rule 40k factions into munda, or munda gangs into swag. Fucking pick one.

Yeah. The Arbites thing up-thread is how stuff should actually be done. Work out how a necromunda group would translate without just jamming rules into each other without thinking about it.

>>53817660
How about the munda rules are not fucking official in swag either you retard. Pick one system, house rule whatever into it, enjoy. But don't be an idiot thinking you can just merge two different systems without considering balance.

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>>53817667
>Also it takes into account that it's a different fucking planet and the necromunda gangs don't exist there, so the rules are generic enough to build your own gang ecology around. Maybe include Dauber gangs that are actually mentioned in the swag fluff.
What is this fluffy bullshit of an argument? Live a little son. It's a hive, what more details to you need?
You want some poofy fluffy poopy to make you happy? Fine.
"The SIX STANDARD WORKER HOUSES of the imperium are a standard feature of most human industrial worlds. Though there are countless strain of proletarian worker lines the six great worker houses have institutionalized the major industrial needs of the imperium."

There done, can we move on. Do you need to buy creativity from GW directly or is it issued monthly in every issue of White Dwarf?

>>53817763
Look here >>53805427

It's not my work, but it's being continuously tested and improved.

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>>53817728
I just did the latter. What's the problem?

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>>53817731
What part of, "it fits perfectly" don't you understand?

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>>53817825
Ya, but Necromunda already works and is a better game. So go have fun as a Kill Team. Any Necromunda gang can fight you on the tabletop and you don't need to worry yourself about the details.

>>53817810
The point of using as much official fluff as possible is others might actually have heard of it you muppet. I understand that your gaming group consisting of you and your cat don't care much about fluff, but some people have larger and more irregular groups. Piss off with your bs "one plus one is one and a half" mash up.

>>53817835
No you didn't. You merged rule sets.

>>53817852

The part where it doesn't, as the SWAG groups don't interact with a lot of the stuff that Necromunda gangs do.

That and it's Necromunda gangs somehow in Armageddon. That is impressively lost.

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>>53817917
>sing as much official fluff as possible is others might actually have heard of it you muppet. I understand that your gaming group consisting of you and your cat don't care much about fluff

Because no one has ever heard of a perfectly functional hive city campaign system called Necromunda?

>>53817852
It doesn't tho
>>53817914
Right, if you prefer munda over swag, enjoy. That's not what the discussion is about tho

>>53817774
Let's be clear the balance comes from Necromunda not SWA.

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>>53817810
Was House Grrl Powah actually a worker house? WTF did their normies do?

>>53817917
>Piss off with your bs "one plus one is one and a half" mash up.

That's honestly the best way to sum up my opinion of it right now. It's less than the sum of it's parts if you just mash it together.

>>53817956
It's just one hive on one planet. It's not generic. There are for example no Dauber gangs in Hive Primus on Necromunda. Did you even read the munda fluff just once?

>>53817917
And for the record the guy with the cat is one of the best community members on Yaktribe.

>>53818010
You mean original catfag? Wat

Guys how good are Skiitari? I've not seen anyone down my club use them; I fancy setting another team to play as for a bit of variation.

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>>53817952
Do you even know lore bro. The original Armageddon campaign came right out and said uses Necromunda gangs to represent Hive Gang Militia.

This is a bullshit fluffy argument anyway. Forget it.

>>53818010
If the original catfag is one of yaktribes "best" members that is a fucking disgrace for yaktribe.

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>>53817988
They produced an effective model of Heavy Stubber modeled after the German MG34. They wrote a short story about it.... And they are carpet munchers...

>>53818040

They are snipers supreme and will dominate boards that don't have enough LOS blocking cover.

>>53818089
Tasty thank you

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>>53817999
They sound like a generic Ratskin gang to me? Again did the creativity train just fall of the rails today? Why is a system with 98% of the same rules not compatible?

>>53817952
If you're going with lore arguments the Tau shouldn't be on Armageddon either. The core rules mention expanding and using them for similar places across the galaxy.

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>>53817993
A mash up would be 40K anal sex. This is is not 40K anal sex, this is a smooth vaginal entrance of two anatomically appropriate and perfectly fitting game systems.

And for the record Necromunda will fuck 40K in the ass any day.

>>53818205

>This is not anal sex
>But it will fuck 40k in the ass.

I'm not sure you know what anal sex is.

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>>53818172
Holy shit, well there we go and make all the fluff fags look like assholes in one move.

>>53818216
I sure have defeated a few kill teams.

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Get ready Kill Teams, the gangs are coming. And they are going to bitch slap you right out of their hive.

>>53818249

How did you do that, considering Necromunda groups don't get Promethium for the win condition?

>>53818281

>thier hive

It's Armageddon, not necromunda. At this point the imperial guard are slapping the gangers out of hives they don't belong in.

>>53818281
>>53817660
>>53817599
I'm a Necromundafag through and through and own a full gang of Delaques and even I think this kind of dickwaving is total faggotry. Quit it.

although I sometimes wonder what happens if you give a spyrer a couple of advances and deploy them as a Lone Operative

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>>53817932
That exactly what we are talking about and I just did it. Read "Buisness as usual">>53802223

>>53818352

I'm not sure. I do worry that Spyrers might be a bit fragile for going up against full kill teams. The advancements would help but a lot of the nice stuff they had was being immune to the wear and tear that could affect a gang from lack of food/losing territory etc.

>>53818086
>His Eschers don't keep collection of Juves from other Gangs
>Even a Scavvy
>Especially a Scavvy

>Food
Shit, I totally forgot gangers had upkeep in Necro. What was it, 5 credits/ganger?

>>53818365
You're probably right. Still, with stuff like the Yeld that'd probably not be too big a problem, just go all slasher-movie on the kill team and pick them off one by one.

Also, thoughts for stealing the rules for climbing from Mordheim, for those places that don't have handy ladders?

>>53818352
Then don't be so afraid of letting the two campaign systems operate parallel to each other.
The only difference between the two games starts at the post battle sequence. There is no reasons the two types of fighting forces can't diverge here and come back again to fight under nearly identical tabletop rules.

>>53818454

You could easily translate Spyrers (Thematically) without going an exact rules copy imo.

Give them all a second wound to start and make some more of the upgrades default + set a rule saying you can only spend points on models that took a guy out in the last game (To represent the growth/unlocking of systems without a separate advancement system)

>>53818454
I found that Harlequins operate a lot like Spyres. Thats coming from a gangs perspective.

>>53818424
It's an income chart for non outlaw gangs and 3 creds for outlaw gangs. But most gangs average 45 creds a game. You can have lucky days though, depending on the scenario.

>>53818518

Yeah, that was my thoughts. It's also why I suggested a second wound >>53818513 for them. To add a bit more difference/show that it's the superarmour that's helping them.

My design ideas for them if I was to make them a SWAG faction:

>2 wounds each to start
>Terrible leadership (like they did in necromunda and to help separate them from other elite teams)
>Autorepair systems give them the ability to regain wounds if they lie low and lick their wounds. To promote a bit more skirmishing/hit and run rather than sticking about and brawling. That and the lack of an Inv save like the clowns have.
>Expand the gear for the suits into a bit of non-canon stuff to help with very limited options. Stuff like single-shot micro-missiles and other stuff that could be concealed in the fancy superarmour.

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>>53818323
If a Gang fights a Kill Team it does so by rolling a SWA scenario against a Kill Team. This is done partly because some Necromunda scenarios would never apply to Kill Teams (shoot out, maybe caravan?) and because when gangs fight Kill Teams it actually a military conflict where the power source of the area are forfeit i.e. Promethium Cache / Isotopic Fuel Rod. It is reasoned that gangs don't normally loot power sources in the hive because that will get you outlawed by the guilders but in a conflict against a military unit anything goes and if you don't take it the Kill Teams will.

As a Gang fighting a Kill Team I just followed the conditions of the SWA scenario and took whatever promethium was appropriate.

>>53818119
Because the two arbitrary percent that are not compatible might break the fragile balance. That's why I said you need to take that into account. That in turn might be time consuming to a point where the work needed to spot and subsequently fix those issues exceed that of doing a port like the pdf that was posted earlier in the thread.

>>53818227
Not really. The Tau exist across the galaxy. Necromunda gangs do not.

>>53818739

I meant the 'Getting enough promethium for a campaign win'.

>>53818363
I read it and it's a merge of two things that don't match perfectly.

>>53818489
>The only difference between the two games
Um.. No. Not at all. This is where you fucked up.

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>>53818742
Come on 2%? Let's stop acting like GW has some perfect formula going on here. The most glaring imbalances come out of the SWA lists not the Necromunda rules. We can more than cover that 2% discrepancy with the "business as usual" guidelines>>53802223.

It's not a lot to deal with I have already fought several Kill Teams without a problem.

The biggest issue everyone is facing is what to do when Kill Teams reach their magical 15 cache quota. Everyone else, especially the gangs wants to continue playing.

There has been talk of allowing 1,500 points of 2nd edition 40K troops to be fielded against all the other Kill Teams and gangs. Either in scenarios where the other Kill Teams cash out their points for 40K units or where the the victor does a series of purges against the remaining players. Some combination of both options seems to be what people are thinking.

>>53818925
>There has been talk of allowing 1,500 points of 2nd edition 40K troops to be fielded against all the other Kill Teams and gangs.

A lot of the SWA factions didn't exist in 2e.

>>53818951
Tau didn't exist. Everything else was fieldable to some degree.

I see a problem with assuming a gang can operate as normal in a war zone. While gangs Irl flourish in war zones their activity changes (because war zone) from what it is during peace when the society functions somewhat normally. Criminal gangs turn into militia groups that live by preying on the weak and defenseless during war, while during peace times they're more focused on conflicts with rival gangs and keeping a low profile to avoid the authorities.

>>53818978

Skittari?

>>53818987
Really fancy servitors.

>>53818925
>I have already fought several Kill Teams without a problem
For you, yes. The problem is not that necromunda gangs are underpowered.

>>53819000

That's a hell of a stretch. 2e didn't have rules for the weapons Skittari use or stuff like Ruststalkers or Skittari Infiltrators.

>>53819045
I'll admit, that's pushing it. OK, Skittles and Tau, everything else was fieldable.

>>53819084

And Grey Knights.

>>53819091
Grey knight termis were RT era on.

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>>53818848
Ok, explain...? Give me one solid fucking example of how theses tabletop rule differ. And no ammo rolls or sustained fire, we dealt with that shit years ago.

Really, no one has any example of how play is different between these two games.

The place where they diverge is only in the post battle sequence.
The argument against theses two campaign systems operating parallel to each other is getting weaker by the minute and even if they weren't completely PERFECTLY balanced, gangs would be on the losing end of things (which Necromunda players are perfectly fine with).

It's just starting to sound like cowardice coming out of the other end of this argument.

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>>53818951
Well now SWA has provided lists we certainly have a base to build on. Haven't you guys ever cracked code on that shit? This is high school stuff.

And my heart just weeps for all the Tau and Necrons that can't fight a war in the hive. I'm sure they will figure it out.

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>>53818978
This was a tangent idea but it looks like people like it.
It sounds like a just reward that would fit for all the skirmishing and scouting done in preparation. Very fluffy.

>>53819114

SWA lists are not termis and basically all the special weapons are 7e stuff.

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>>53818981
This is why we brought in the looting of Promethium Caches/ Isotopic Fuel Rods into the conflict with Gangs and Kill Teams. It kind of represents a kind of robbing of the bank for gangs if you know what I mean. It is different the normal objectives of gang on gang warfare.

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>>53819010
I would say gangs can hold their own but I have only won 1/3 of the games I have played against Kill Teams.
I am an experienced player in this system though and a lot of SWA players are just getting started. I don't think my victories will hold but I am still glad to fill this role and role play the character of my force.

The real advantage I feel I have is the diversity of equipment I have access to allows me address a number of threats. Flamers are kind of a cure all, as well as the two heavy weapons I have access to. I also benefit from cheap Juves. But if my gang gets too big I start suffering from income restrictions and this limits the big advantage of the open market I have access to.

There were 2nd Ed Necron rules. For all three of their units at the time.

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>>53819084
It's still an exciting prospect to bring field engagement into the culmination of a skirmish system. That kind of ladder might be the roleplaying remedy 40K has been missing all these years.

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>>53819122
Fucking won the argument. Way to go /tg/ !

>>53819122
If you read the rules you can see the differences yourself. Don't ask me to spoon feed you. I play both. I like both. But I acknowledge that there are differences.

>>53819122
>gangs would be on the losing end of things
lul

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>>53819499
There is no spoon bro. You just wrong on this one.

>>53819483
Are you talking to yourself now? Even a retard can see the differences between the rule sets.

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>>53819513
Ya, it's even more lulz when you are playing. But it's a good show and even holding your own with irregular humans proves that the game is built around skill and tactics instead of powerful equipment and broken special rules.

The based Rick Priestly be praised!

What do you have; being able to pre measure? Units with move values other than 4"?

>>53819523
Then you clearly haven't read the rules. There's plenty of streamlining going on in swag. They are similar but not the same. If you can't comprehend how this affects the game then you're a lost cause. Enjoy playing with your cat.

>>53819605
Are those the only ones you can find? Try again.

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>>53819566
Then call them?
Just saying it, doesn't make it true. I've gone through both rule sets and other than a -1 to hit while running I can't find much. There isn't a lot of credibility for anyone to say that these rule are more than minutely different.
Even critics in this thread are agreeing that they are 98% similar.

>>53819642
You're the one making the argument that they're night and day rules sets; YOU cite some sources.

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>>53819626
Man you guys just aren't trying. Go back to 40K and eat another edition.
The system Rick Priestly laid down works and you have nothing to offer in your argument.

>>53819673
I am not going to go through every fucking difference between the systems. Get that through your fucking skull. You're delusional if you think there are none apart from the post battle sequence, and you just prove you haven't read the rules. And the fact that you don't get how even small differences can affect balance shows you have poor understanding of game development.

>>53819741
>The system Rick Priestly laid down works and you have nothing to offer in your argument.

Why don't you go make a thread about it then?

>>53819676
I never said they are night and day. I said even two percent difference (although that is an arbitrary number you pulled out of your ass) can affect balance. Your complete lack of reading comprehension is worrying.

>>53819741
I still don't play 40k. Also the only argument I ever made was that even small differences can affect balance. Go wank of your friend more.

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>>53819676
What fallacious bullshit.
I'm am citing sources, I'm sighing the fucking texts!

I guess it's up little old me, "guilty until proven innocent".

Who the fuck need to get spoon fed now? Maybe the problem is that your not familiar with the Necromunda rules. If thats the case, its ok. I don't blame you. They were written by the creator of all 40K and came out over 20 years ago. I'm an old fag and don't understand kids these days....

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>>53819758
YOU'RE WRONG.

How do you win with guard? They just can't seem to hit and wound with anything but their special weapons and those guys are always the first to die.

>>53819869
That was actually the most constructive argument so far.

>>53819872
You have to into tactical placement and movement. If your special weapons operative dies first you're doing something wrong. Don't put them in the front.

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Listen we have small differences in ammo rolls, sustained fire, and -1 to hit a running model. Can somone please dig up anything else? Really?

We going to split hairs over pre measurements of something? In 30 pages of original Necromunda rules there are the only differences we can furnish.

>>53819931
What necromunda rules are you using?

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>>53819872
Play them like a gang, use cover, and give ground while firing.

>>53819846
Fuck off, this isn't a necromunda thread.

You're perfectly free to make your own thread, the only reason you're not is for attention.

>b-but they're both 40k!
Then go shit up the 40k general

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>>53819952
Original Rule Book (ORB) or Living Rule Book (LRB) Necromunda fits easily into Shadow War Armageddon (SWA) tabletop combat. Though the two games have different campaign rules they can operate parallel to each other. Let the Kill Teams of SWA play their military campaign system and let the gangs of the hive city conduct "business as usual" by playing the traditional Necromunda campaign system.

>>53819973
Coward. So afraid of gangs.

I still have to know if catfag really is some esteemed dude from yaktribe. That's fucking hilarious if true.

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>>53818783
Something that we have considered is a compound purchase when gangs get 15 cache. This would take a lot of tinkering but there are rules for storming the barricades in Necromunda.

What would have to be worked out is the costs for construction and maybe some minor militia forces or sentries you could purchase. Beyond that you could even start to get into vehicle purchases but at this point you start to enter a whole new game system call "Compound". A compound system would have its own post battle sequence and be a base you could stick income generating territories and manufacturing facilities. It would probably have its own profile sheet.

All just theory now but it would be a counterpoint to the 1,500 point 40K army showing up. Hell, a compound might even be able to hold one off.

>>53817427
Objectie markers are so cool and fun to kit bash as well.

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>>53820072
Some dude with cats on his workbench posts a lot of cool mods on Yaktribe.

>>53820194
A siege is never won by the defender.

>>53820214
You don't know who catfag is I take it.

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>>53820221
Generally you are correct. But it isn't won by the besieger either.

>>53820230
Can we stop talking about cats! Fucking internet!

>>53820243
Depends on what philosopher you believe. :)

Are people seriously this butt-blasted by house rules that allow for a gang that's basically GSCs with better options and less money into the game, which has no issues mechanically accepting them?

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>>53820389
Well I'm playing a skirmish game so I'm probably not a man of Clausewitz. I'll have to go with SunTzu on this one.

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>>53820505
Let me tell ya about it, I been dealing with this bullshit all morning. They really have purged all the intellectuals out of this community long ago.

>>53818765
Ya, because "gangs" don't exist across the galaxy?

>>53820506
Miyamoto Musashi can scale as well, but Sun Tzu is a good pick.

>>53820608
Necromunda gangs you illiterate fuck.

>>53800079
armorcast made a two-tallboys terrain kit? i need one

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>>53820645
LOL. This is too easy.

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Been playing an Inquisition Kill Team.
Heres my Inquisitor if anyones interested. Got pictures of the rest too, they are basically an excuse to make more of my groups DH characters into models

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>>53820838

>>53820645
The necromunda gangs are just archtypes. You can easilly have 'religious gang' or 'punk gang' or 'tech workers gang' or 'closet genestealers' gang anywhere in any hive.

The Daubers are a cool idea. They're basically a cargo cult of blue collar maintenance guys. But that means mechanically they could just be your-guys'd up gangers of another type.

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>>53820860
dunno what happened there

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The mechanics argument is sound for letting gangs operate in a SWA campaign. The two things that might make them better are the open market they can choose equipment from and the variable experience progression.

The open market benefit of gangs is many time limited by their modest income that is constricted by roster count.

The variable experience is limited against Kill Teams because there is no Underdog or Giant Killer Bonus when gangs fight Kill Teams. The end result is that the experience difference between gangs and Kill Teams are flat. Kill teams benefit from a consistent guaranteed increase every game and can upgrade initiates regularly. Ganger experience increases can happen frequently upon victory but can stagnate if victory isn't obtained. Ganger experience is always variable, other than wounding hit awards.

In contrast a Gangs injury chart is more deadly, They have less points to work with every battle, and their equipment is less specialized. Gang and Kill Team skills are similar enough to not make much difference.

These systems work just fine parallel to each other. If anything the gangs are on the losing end of things, which gangs have no problems with.

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>>53820887
I couldn't agree more.

>>53821085
Nice copy pasta.

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>>53821951
What can I say, cultists are awesome.

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Why the can't you hire Grots without that stupid runtherd. If they want to be a pain they could make your buy them in groups of three or something petty. It's like everything needs to mimic 40K perfectly or the fluff nazis get cranky.

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They are going to make a skirmish game with all the factions in it and they aren't going to let Eldar have Scouts? WTF. They had an Eldar Scout in the Necromunda Outlander book for christ sake.

>>53822212
The initial game was clearly 'Let's move some basic troop boxes and sell some terrain less cringeworthy than the Forest of Melted Sprues'.

Where it goes next if any interesting supplements come out--- that's the real test. Because this probably had way more unexpected interest than most of their other sorta-board games like Dark Eldar Not-Xwing and 'Buy a two pack of unrelated planes or knights', or 'Here's a bunch of heresy marines we pretend is a board game'

>>53816687
Your posts to this effect are dumb nonsense when you post them on yaktribe and they're dumb nonsense when you post them here. That's why they don't get any replies.

>>53822371
I think it's a bit sad they were suprised there was all this interest in a small scale skirmish game; willing to bet if you polled 40k fans as to their favorite 40k related game it'd be Necromunda (with maybe Epic a close 2nd).

>>53822371
Anything would be cool at this point. SWA as a product is a joke. It need some serious campaign expansions to stand on its legs.

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>>53822857
Is someone mad they aren't the center of attention today?

>>53822988
No. We're just fed up with the copy pasta.

>>53822988
The entire reason you're posting your dumb crap here is because you post the same thing on yaktribe and it gets zero replies and you want attention. You're projecting so hard right now it's surreal.

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>>53822909
Inquisimunda is really where it's at as far as 40K skirmish gaming. They just need to make faction specific territories and markets for some of the weird stuff like Orks and Eldar. An outcast penalty system would take it a long way and a secrecy/cover system. Expand things past to the hive to the slopes and wastelands of the hiveworld. Eventually bring fortifications and custom vehicles into it to make it epic.

Other than that they have bone beautifully with the diversity of factions, variety of equipment, and adaptability of races.

NU ORK by Lord Blackfang is the only thing that is even comparable. A lot of the NU ORK stuff is light years ahead of anything GW has ever done. That system feels more like a roleplaying game than tabletop.

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>>53823080
Man I pissed you off enough for you to go on Yak, that's some special GW brainwashing.

Ok...fine... go back to talking about Space Marines I'll leave you alone.

Looking for fluffy, miniature posters to print out and decorate my terrain with. Post what you got please.

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>>53823055
Is this even a real complaint?

>>53823174
You know munda is a Geedubs game, right? No? Ok then.

>>53823128

I'd love to see what SWA introduced be swallowed up by Inquisimunda. With all the profiles for AdMech and xenos weaponry, plus the new profiles, it'd be great to see an update like that set a new precedent for the game.

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>>53823186
Thanks, I posted them with one of my delusional essey up thread. It might have been to much content for regulars around here. >>53816687

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>>53823236
I think the whole skirmish culture is going to have an awakening. I hope it leads to some cool space pirate shenanigans and other wasteland adventures.

Kill teams are great for what they are, military units in a command hierarchy. But fun campaign skirmishing comes from autonomous with general faction identities.

>>53823174
You've been copy pasting your retarded posts into shadow war threads since the game came out.

>>53823282
Sorry "Autonomous units" with general faction identities.

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>>53823303
What like once every two weeks you copy Nazi?

>>53823282
This is the kind of mixed weaponry I love.

>>53823316
You're new to 4chan, huh?

>>53823282
Skirmish culture awakening? You mean... the amazing games that are out there, well designed, superior sculpts and interesting mechanics with solid balance?

You know. The Infinity, Dark Age, Malifaux of the world? Or even more obscure games like TnT, MERCs or Rogue Stars, etc? Or the great old classics of Mordheim and real Necromunda?

SWA's main contribution was to awaken new 40k players that 'hey, moving 90 models and a child sized robot' isn't the only way to play miniatures.

>>53823239
Those are star wars...

>>53823282

Inquisitors are a great way to do this.

But setting the campaign within the context of a wider war can also be neat. Kill Teams would be tasked to go after high value, dense targets, where larger forces would be too unwieldy, vulnerable, expensive, or indiscreet to send after them. Requisition therefore comes from the top down, granting these autonomous units supplies and resources for showing good results.

And these actions could change the war in its wider context. Recovering a cache of tactical data from a crashed orbital observation servitor could turn the tide of a campaign. Planting seismic charges at a vulnerable fault point can cause a cataclysm large enough to halt troop movements. Planting a bomb in the right place can deny the enemy a valuable resource.

>>53823365
That's what swag is about. It's somewhat disheartening that most players only know renaissance battle line war or gang fights.

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>>53823342
I totally agree with you. It's just the 40K franchises is the most well established galaxy wide setting with the largest miniatures range. It's quite a playground. It's a shame that Rick Priestly wasn't allowed to progress with his vision after GW fucked up Gorkamorka.

They would rather focus on other things like the Bugman's brewery food court.

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>>53823365
I just find the hive city to be such an expansive setting that SWA, Necromunda, and Inquisimunda could all be happening under the same roof.

>>53823476
Literally the only thing I thought was worth getting there was the Engineer Burger and it's far too fucking big and expensive. Sums up geedubs in a nutshell

>>53817261
But they don't, that much, really.

SWA isn't just military kill teams, it's hard scrabble guerrillas engaging in protracted street fighting. And one of the chief forces, one of the core three of the rulebook, are ORKS, who don't really have a chain of command when in comes to acquiring stuff, they just expand and salvage.

So that all aside--- three factions I think have an interesting balance dynamic by being very similar. IG, Skitarii and Inquisition. They're all flimsy BS4 shooter corps, with similar weapons.

IG: 3x Specialist Gunners (mostly Plasma, maybe one GL), Carapace Option, Lasguns across the board with Red Dot.
Skitarii: 3x Specialist Gunners (mostly slightly weaker plasma, maybe 1 Arquebus), Carapace Standard, S4 rifles across the board with red dot.
Inquisition: Badass Inquisitor (2/3rd strongest leader in game just after Harlequin, and maybe Tyranid Leader), full team of Storm Bolters or Plasma Pistols, up to 2 guys with storm shields.

Thoughts on balance between this set, since they're very related? I play Inquisition, and am wondering now if being ultra shooty, ultra glass cannons is too good with up to 9 storm bolters?

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Finished my Grey Knights killteam. I probably won't be able to field them all at once but maybe one day. The pic is shitty, I can't take pics of minis to save my life. They came out pretty good though for babbys first space marines.

>>53823891
>no psycannons or psilencers
MISTAKE

>>53823935
Yeah, I'm a sucker for metal minis, these guys were cheap on ebay. If they get stomped I really wont care, I had fun painting them at least.

>>53823962
You probably wont get stomped on, it's just not as competitive as it could be.

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What stops people from breaking down all the troop types and weapons list into SWA point costs? I can understand some restriction of elite troops but there are a lot of core troop choices and scout type troops missing from all the rosters. Dark Eldar not having syndicates as an option is just ridiculous. Christ, there's even a plastic box set for them, if GW is so focused on sales.

Like why the hell would Grey Knights be engaging in this type of combat anyway. Do they even have a scout troop type?

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>>53823891
I hate the fluff that Grey Knights are just another chapter of ejaculated seed marines. They used to be a distinct order of psykers that was kept separate from astries practices.

Does everything in power armor need to be the Emperor's chozen Space Muhrines.?

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Would these models work as a Blood Axe Ork Kill Team?

Also, is there any benefit to giving an ork boy two choppas?

>>53826201
Why is Killer Croc in there?

>>53825878
>Like why the hell would Grey Knights be engaging in this type of combat anyway
Same reason they once borrowed 600 Terminator suits from other chapters just to put down a single planetary governor's rebellion: they get bored sometimes.

>>53825878
There's a few baselines. The standard guardsman rookie is 50 points flat, and that's the most bare-bones 'general' guy in the game. A BS4 costs 10 points. BS4 with another stat up like LD costs 15.

Common weapons share points across factions.

You probably could point up what say, a normal space marine looks like. Leaders are hard, since they get a huge tax for their leader bonuses.

Anything with a 2nd ed version can be substituted in very easily. But like, a Primaris would be most comparable to a Tyranid warrior, but with marine weapons.

>>53805007
You use the radium guns instead of rifles.

>>53826201
Those models are premo. You can slap me around all day long with those Orks, they are gorgeous.
They would make cool blood axes.

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>>53826329
Acceptable answer. Next topic.

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>>53826405
That same guardsman just verifies that everything including point costs is built on Necromunda.

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>>53826700
Why the fuck are Grey Knights dealing with planetary rebellions?

>>53826301
Just go with it bro.

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>>53826664
There's also a captain that could be used as a Nob.

What would his weapon count as? A Big Choppa or a Buzz Choppa?

>>53827619
just give him a power claw, fuck the weapon.
(it's flimsy, it's fragile it's more of a grot prod then anything else)
And it turns out pretty good when you do so.
I also gave him a pair of binoculars for the other hand, turned out fine

>>53825878
also why don't IG have heavy weapon teams
eldar do

>>53825878
>What stops people from breaking down all the troop types and weapons list into SWA point costs?
40k unit and weapon costs aren't in any way related to SWA team member and weapon costs. The SWA costs are balanced loosely based on Necromunda and are not translatable.

If you wanted to do what you described you'd essentially have to write completely new kill team lists for each faction that incorporate the units that you want. This would take a lot of time and effort.

If you like the sound of that you're welcome to do it yourself.

>>53828185
Because heavy weapons are too heavy to be carried by regular humans.

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>>53829272
>too heavy to be carried by regular humans
>Literally man portable weapons teams

Do you know what Imperial Guard heavy weapon teams are?

>>53829659
Being able to carry something broken down in parts is not the same as being able to carry something and shoot it at the same time. The clue is in you need more than one guy to operate it.

>>53822130
Because that's how the box works?

>>53829659
>>53829775
Also in smaller scale skirmish fights or guerilla warfare you don't use heavier weapons because you lose mobility which is essential when fighting like that.

>>53829803
>rocket throwers and hmgs don't get used in skirmish warfare
Greyknights don't get used in skirmish warfare either. A heavy bolter or rocket thrower is arguably more viable than the fucking eldar platform, because it is smaller and probably easier to maintain during a campaign (same with the plasma gun).
The reason for almost all of the problems with unit choices is that GW didn't put any effort into this game, I don't get why people defend them all the time.

>>53830260
>rocket thrower

man that guy must be a badass if he doesn't even need the launcher bit

>>53830333
Lel now I feel retarded. Got to type fast because I need to follow a lecture while telling people they are wrong on a chinese comic forum.

>>53830375
I just figured english wasn't your first language since that would make sense seeing as it's 1:30ish AM in freedomland right now.

That and that sounded funny

>>53830392
I was thinking about flame throwers at the same time which both (thrower and launcher) translate to 'Werfer' in the case of the weapon.

>>53830260
>Greyknights don't get used in skirmish warfare either.
We were talking about imperial guard...

So.. Nobody got any nice propaganda posters to share?

>>53833540
https://yaktribe.org/community/vault/categories/miscellaneous.8/

>>53833874
Nice, thanks. Will check them out.

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>>53828185
It's a bit stupid, but I think the logic is that an Eldar grav platform is super easy to move and maintain, and is relatively quiet, while an IG heavy weapon (specifically the tripod ones) are very cumbersome and would be a pain in the ass to use as a sneaky guerrilla force. They should still probably get missile launchers and heavy stubbers, though.
I mean, really the Eldar team should have been Rangers or Striking Scorpions, but we got what we got.
>>53827619
That captain is awesome. I don't even play Orks and I want him.

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So my wife wanted to play Shadow War with me and was immediately drawn to playing the Dark Eldar Wych Cult. What do you think would be more fun to play against her: my Catachan Jungle Fighters or my Adepta Soroitas?

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>buddy's first swa game
>our group successfully lured him in with free models and good deals
>he plays csm v my csm
>new player and I'm fat and lazy so we just went to table each other with no other objectives
>autismmode.exe
>he sits put and makes me come across the board after him
>moves his Autocannon once the whole game
>slowly moves his other units just enough to take advantageous shots
>kicks my ass

I mean, he played much better than I did so props to him, plus we got him hooked into 40k so great a new player.
But he's a nigger and I'm a bit sad he just sat there like a faggot all game.
I sure hope this isn't something I'll be having to get used to for 8e and swa against him.
/rant

>>53839721
It's okay. I was playing my buddy's Bad Moon orks and he made great use of cover and ripped my Sisters of Battle to pieces as I tried to close in and flush him out. It was a fun learning experience though.

How much cover did you guys have on the board? We played with a bunch of those Infinity cardboard buildings that prevented clear lines of sight more than like 12" unless someone was up on top of a building.

>>53839549
>Shirtless muscle men vs bondage elves
>Bondage elves vs nuns
Whichever you have more flamers for.

>>53839721
I'm not sure what you were expecting from him? Was he supposed to lose on purpose?

>>53839980
Combi-flamer and heavy flamer on the nuns and a heavy flamer on the musclemen. Guess I'll be running nuns vs bondage elves.

>>53840135
Not enough flamers.

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>>53839721
What did he do wrong? It sounds like he had a good defensive strategy and he won. Remember, Overwatch is a -1 to hit, -2 if you're running, and they can only fire in a forward 90 degree arc. If someone's staying on the defensive, it's your job to outflank him and mess him up for being static.
You guys did have lots of cover, right?

>>53839721
If you played soccer would you complain that your opponent was a nigger because he kept scoring goals while you were flailing around like a dumb faggot? You lost because your opponent played the game in a way that is effective and you didn't. Don't begrudge people for beating you because you're incompetent.

>>53841701
I dunno I sort of dig having a meltagun. One thing I've found with flamers is that they can be sort of useless if the enemy starts spreading out. It's nice to get an almost guaranteed wound on someone.

>>53844330
Meltaguns are fine too. I think honestly the best thing to do with sisters is Heavy bolter + Heavy flamer.

But against wyches, who are going to charge you autohitting overwatch is pretty good.

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>>53839721
PEOPLE! you got to roll scenarios. Take it from a veteran Necromunda player, that is the only way mix things up and turn the tables on the big boys.

A lot of people build lists and develop tactics with just Kill Team Fight scenarios in mind. You can blow huge holes in these strategies when they are faced with the random scenarios.

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>>53841701
Flamers are awesome sauce. Want a sure fire way to beat Harlequins? Take flames. Anything that takes a shooting roll will miss the clowns running with holo-fields. Flamers will auto hit any Harlequin and they are always trying to get close into HtH.

>>53823753
Look at that place. I've seen American restaurants with a more authentic medieval feel than that.

>>53844525
Only reason I'm not running a Heavy Bolter is because of points and the lack of a model. Can't find a reasonably priced one on eBay, and GW's online shop is out of stock.

>>53844525
Not sure if list building against my wife on our first game is a great way to keep her interested. Once she gets the hang of it, then I'll switch out the metal gun for an extra flamer.

>>53839721
I'm pretty sure I know who's behind this post.

If so, I was there, that was a firing squad, not a game.

In my defense, I told you two to roll a mission. AND I warned you that the Autocannon may be the greatest weapon of war ever devised, and that you should fear it.

AND I also warned you that the table you two set up had a lot of open sight lines allowing him to really lock it down with autocannon overwatch.

That said, sometimes it's hard to not do that. Hell, I had a game against Harlequins today with Scavenger where my only option to win was to do an overwatch trap on the objectives. He did an excellent job with blocking terrain and with how slow guardsmen are, my only hope was to hit him as he nabbed objectives then move up to grab whatever he died making a dash for.

It didn't work, he won, but I got one loot counter and got an extra cache, and his 3 futzed out and gave him nothing, so it ended up being no big deal.

Random question for you guys. I know you can use your kill team leader's initiative to stand up from pinning if they're nearby, but can you use your kill team leader's Initiative for anything else? Mine rolled Initiative 5 as a guard sarge and if I could use that on things like overwatch that would be huge. I lost the game because my guys were too slow to pop his harlequins on overwatch. They hit every shot they made, but many times a harlequin would pop through a window and my guys would be too slow to shoot them.

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>>53839721
Don't get butt hurt over a single game. Learn from it and play again.

If a heavy can dominate the heights go in low with shotguns and grenades.

So I'm noticing that there's sort of an arms-race that goes on in these games. I'm IG and my primary opponent is Grey Knights. Our first few games I felt were really fun but now that we understand the system a bit more some of the balance issues are becoming apparent. We both are relatively competitive (not salty) and like to optimize.

Basically, his GK are so shooty and assaulty that I can easily see my tactics devolving into moving 4, hiding, moving 4, hiding, until eventually either he has to move out or I do, and then try desperately to plasma him down in one turn.

Seems like a particular issue against these hyper-elite armies like GK and Tyranids.

How do you guys avoid this?

>>53847990
are you guys using missions that force you to do things like capture objectives or go after targets to keep the game from devolving into "overwatch simulator"?

Also, how much terrain are you guys using?

>>53823962

Lookin' really handsome. Storm bolters are very solid across the board, you actually may have a healthier early game if you're able to bring more quality storm bolters and you won't bottle out after 1 loss.

>>53847990
You shouldn't have to hide every other turn. As long as you can reasonably hide you can stay hidden even while moving.

>>53845043
I assumed your wife is familiar with wargaming in general.