Malifaux General - Hard To Kill Edition

>>53788710
>zombie isn't pitching a tent
one job

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>>53788605
>>53788646

>Are there any combinations between Obsidian Oni and Asami, that Yokai lacks?

As the responding Anon says, they generate quite a lot of scrap, meaning your next summon(s) are coming in on Flicker+2 or +3/4/5.
They (can) vastly increase the efficiency of Asami's summoning by giving an effectively free life-extension to later summons.

Especially useful when you get that 13 for a Jorogumo in your hand.

>>53788792
I'm contemplating getting one for Levi to play with

>>53788733
>>lady isn't pitching a most peculiar fold of fabric
fixed

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>>53788710
Thanks for General

>>53788792
>>53788646
>>53788676
True enough. Thanks.
But let's say, between Obsidian Oni and Jorogumo, what should I buy first? Provided, that I wouldn't have Toshiro for "scrap summons", so only Asami will use that markers.

>>53788805
The Oni's are actually not constructs. So that's not gonna do a lot of good.

>>53788880
The problem with the Jorogumo is that they're at Ml5. They have the 1" Ml6 on their 0, but it's less consistent than you want them to be if you've just used your 13 (and thus will likely not have much higher cards left). I mainly summon Jorogumo if I need something along the lines pf a Smoke Marker that can tie up models around them to keep them from charging. If there's no lanes I want blocked or groups of models I want tied up, unless I can get them on enough flicker to last into turn 5, I tend to just use those 13's for other attacks.

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>>53788733
>>53788822
Stupid sexy Nica...

>>53788792
>>53788605
As for whether they are hires or summons - my local Asami player always gets good work out of one, with the free scrap raining from the sky, so I'd say hire one in, unless you need the Stones elsewhere.

All you need to do is send it after a couple of low-Df models - you don't even need him to kill, though the Corpse markers are a bonus, because if he averages more than one scrap a turn he's probably paying for himself in extra turns from your summons.

>>53788805
Under Contsruct Pariah?
Sure, why not... But why?
Does Levi actually do legit summoning from Scrap markers or something?

I've literally never seen him on the table - I guess he just never caught anyone's eye, pre- or post-nerf.

>>53788710
>Malifaux is a 30mm Skirmish Tabletop game

https://www.wyrd-games.net/malifaux/
>seek your fortune in this fast paced and brutal 32mm tabletop miniature skirmish game.

Wouldn't Wyrd be right in this case, or is there something that I am not getting?

>>53789024
> Does Levi actually do legit summoning from Scrap markers or something?
Levi and\or Alice can summon Abominations from Scraps with 2ss Upgrades. Levi on 9+ Crow and 1AP, Alice on 10+ Whatever and 0 AP. But Alice also can place Scrap herself with 0 AP. Is it worth it? Who knows.
But more important - since all Oni's aren't constructs, undeads, mercs or outcasts, I think Levi can't hire them.

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>>53788880
No worries bud - it's refreshing to have such a solid week and more of conversation.

> between Obsidian Oni and Jorogumo, what should I buy first?
I'd go Obsidian.
There's a laundry list of reasons why:
You'll summon them more frequently as they are cheaper.
You'll get Activation control with them, as they'll drop Scrap to support summoning.
They have Ml6, so hit more reliably.
They have smaller bases so they can pop up and move around in tighter spaces, and block fewer charge lanes - since you are controlling this, you should be able to make this work for you rather than the other guy.
They have a ranged Ca that does decent damage and gets +flips against Burnign targets.
They can hand out Burning with their Ml attack.
And finally, you won't find yourself sitting on 13s for a Jorogumo that won't actually achieve all that much more.

What this guy >>53788977 said.

Basically, Obsidian Oni are easier to get and way more versatile, but a bit less scary.

You tech up to your Jorogumo using your RapeMonkeys and Obsidians to generate markers until you get the 13M in hand, then use it to lock down a piece of board or model.

Alternatively, hire Tannen.

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>>53789024
He can get Abominations on 9s (and Alice on 10s) but I'm going to see if there's a better way to get scrap

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>>53789149
Ah fuck, thought I had edited that.
Cheers.

>>53789184
>Levi and\or Alice can summon Abominations from Scraps with 2ss Upgrades.
D'oh, of course.
Fukken Aboms.

So what do you guys think of the wave 5 beta so far? As a neverborn player I'm happy Titania gets some more toys to play with, neutral on the anti synergy puppet and sort of intrigued by Serena and her synergy/upgrades involving nightmares.

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Don't mind me, I'm retarded and was thinking about a new model

>>53789237
As a TT player I really don't know what Wyrd was thinking. It's gotten a lot better since the first release but fuck that was abysmal.

>>53789237
I really do like the Guild's control options. The Ten Thunders models are pretty bad, but that is usually the case for that faction. I am generally glad with how the divergent paths characters turned out though. Hopefully the sculpts are decent as well.

>>53789290

How did the characters turn out, anyway? Did every faction get somebody or just a few?

>>53789349
There were only three characters, and all three are monofaction. That said the Trickster is tormented, and the self righteous man is a mimic, so they can be hired across factions with the right master.

>>53789349
I'm still mad the kid didn't end up neverborn/woe

I still kinda want to see the Resser kid from the Deadman's Ball story. One of my favorite fluff pieces in Malifaux.

>>53788977
>>53789191
So, Obsidian it is then. Thanks.

Is Shadow Emissary worth taking (purchasing) for Asami if I'll get Sensei Yu? Emissary can't push-fast summoned models, while Yu with Wandering River can. Yu also can push target twice (Airbust, Focus +1 on printed Tomes, Mighty Gust with Fast), giving it a respectable 10" push.

>>53789454
The +'s for all minions is really quite strong with with the card hungry Asami though. What other TT masters do you have? For Mei and McCabe the Emissary is pretty much a must and even Shen is high up there.

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>>53789237
>>53789283
>>53789290
TT stuff is a mess, really feels like they had some art ideas and an obligation to provide an equal number of models for each faction there.

Clearly had no clue of what they wanted the models to be, barely even a vague idea of what their role on the table was to be.

The Guild stuff is decent, and the control stuff is good, but the whole game is starting to creak under the number of options, the potentials for hard counters, and the smoothing out of capabilities/weaknesses.

>>53789290
>>53789349
>>53789371
Having seen the concept are, I'm optimistic.
The Man and Trickster look pretty boss.
Take or leave the Child - definitely wasn't what I was thinking for the Teddy.

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>>53789591
>For Mei the Emissary is a must.
Justify.

I take her with Pork Delivery System, Kang and two Rail Workers, then commonly a Katanaka Sniper and Oiran Unless there's a reason not to.
Emissary on top of that is going to start eating .hard. into Cache/upgrades.

>>53789687
The emissary is generally there for the extra scrap. I think that it is a better idea than an oiran at least, as they don't bring anything for Mei.

>>53789621
The artstyle for those three characters looks really different and, in my opinion, worse than the older stuff. I hope this isn't the start of a new trend.

>>53789591
I have nothing. Yet. it's planning step now.

For Shen I see obvious interaction between Emissary and Monk of Low River for +3 cards per turn. For Asami, (+) is good, it's only in 4", but still good. Now I'm not sure between Yu and Emissary.
Problem with Emissary is his price of 10ss, when I also need some beater (like Izamu or Yasunori) and some smaller models. In other words - he is useful but also really expensive, from my point of view.
For Shen Yu + Emissary is almost half of the list (or it's no Yu with Shen). For Asami it's this or that.

>>53789621
It feels as if it's designed by people who have never seen Ten Thunders played before. No real synergy, no look at what they're missing vs. what they're full of, etc. Even after all those weeks they keep missing the mark completely on what's wrong with them.

>>53789687
The Emissary drops a free scrap+push that Mei can Railwalk to on any card except the Black Joker. My standard Mei list consists of Mei+4 SS of upgrades, Toshiro+Summoning, Porkchop and Emissary though, so you'll be up 2 activations turn 1 and if you can spare the 9's they'll turn into guaranteed Komainu too. Then you have 19 points left to build whatever you want (save like 3 at least for SS). I tend to pick the Emberling+LRM for cheap activations but that's very much up to you. Also the -1 Df per burning really helps if Mei's gotten a vapormancy in some people's face.

>>53789750
Well, the Emissary does have 2/3/6 with the option to take a free double focus on discard, so he can pack quite a punch. Add to that the blast he can add to whatever and 3 cards (which is absolutely insane) and he tends to fare a lot better in any combat capacity than Yu since he will always take one shot a turn at least.

Not sure what to think of the Wave 5 Ressers stuff. A bit of interesting utility, but we'll see if it actually finds places in lists.

Asura's naturally pretty wild, but she's not AS good as she looks on paper.

>>53789810
So your advice is to take Shen + Emissary instead of Shen + Yu? or to skip on other beaters with Shen?
Or rather better - do you have some skeleton crew with Shen, like you do with Mei?

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>>53789733
Agreed.
I hope it was because they knew it was intended to be heavily altered by the events, so wanted a style they could work with easily.
It doesn't even sound that convincing to me though...

>>53789716
The Oiran are Disguised with an 8" Cg, buff friendly Wp, extra Defensive condition, have a Ml Trigger that means the target can't target Showgirls (Oiran) after succeeding, AND have a Lure (on >4C).

They don't have Mei synergy specifically, but one is useful for pulling things up the board (T1 double walk, T2 double Lure) and they make excellent spoilers - charge one at their lead model from 9" away, get the trigger off, then start of next turn go Defensive+2 for 1AP and Lure a Rail Worker in to charge position.

Also Belles have given anything with Lure-like abilities an undeserved reputation as pieces to be treated with respect.

Also the models are pretty.

>>53789810
I've been meaning to pick up Toshiro - want to work out how I can make him look technical/mechanical rather than undead.
Was thinking of trying to swap his intestines for a mess of wiring or pipes/tubes, war fan swapped for a wrench.

Unfortunately, even with the extra 1.5 activations per turn from Toshiro, I damn love Kang, and with him in there I'm down to six activations (or seven and no cache).

I know 10T roll elite, but that seems iffy.

I'm only recently sliding into 10T via Mei though, so I'm lacking a lot of staples.

I might be picking up pic related soon, but from what I hear her box is mostly full of shite.

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>>53789884
Listening to the whining, you'd think the Corpse Cart (or whatever) giving marker delivery and decent damage and potentially bullshit levels of scheme scoring nonsense was piss in their mouths rather than more ridiculous utility for the faction.

There are times I wonder if they really understand how silly powerful Nicodem's card draw and activation control (in the context of that draw) really is, and that he doesn't need precision Corpse marker availability on top of that.

This may or may not be part of my attachment to Kang remarked upon above.

>>53790085
Those are nice features, but as far as helping Mei the Emissary is going to be a better idea, especially when it comes to activation control. You only really take the Oiran because they are the cheapest models that can take advantage of smoke and shadows. Even then they are only incidentally useful.

As far as Misaki's box goes, the models aren't bad. It is just that you will find more use with them with Jakob or McCabe.

>>53789944
Shen I find difficult because Yu is so ingrained in my playstyle but the Emissary is absolutely bonkers. It just feels like a waste to not bring Yu though I'm also feeling the constant pushes really reach some diminishing returns around end of t2. Lately I've been forcing myself to go without Yu because all my Shenlong lists would just start with Emissary+Yu and then hope I could squeeze in some 7/8 SS models.

Shen+Wandering, Peasant, Yu+Disciple, Emissary+Dawn is only 25 SS for 5 activations though, so you'd add like a Sniper, Lone Swordsman and LRM for a fairly generalised list and then add a RT+Misdirection or even just fit in a TTB or Effigy if you want to get to 9 activations. The Emissary and Shen then just dive in hard along the others t2/3 and you try to get the blast aura working the turns after that.

It tends to do well enough in the combat department, Yu provides ample buffs, pushes and heals and the LS can easily be replaced by Kang/etc but yeah, lately it's been something among the lines of that but with Yu or the Emissary+LRM replaced by another big hitter. Just a solid list that you can use in multiple ways.

>>53790085
Well, if t1 you have two 9+'s you will have two Komainus (and your LRM heals them back up) since the scrap is completely free. Kang is a go-to model against Ressers, naturally, though I don't really like Mei against them. If you're not summoning though, I rarely feel Mei needs the cache and is happy with about 3.

Misaki herself isn't exactly stellar. Fun, sure, but... They're not even bad pieces, they're just all slightly outclassed by models in similar roles. Ototo is a decent beater that really bites the dust in comparison to Izamu save for some Slow lists, and the Torakage are actually some decent schemerunners, but schemerunning and not picking the TTB is just blasphemy. They're fairly mobile and strong at hunting runners though.

>>53790085
Also I really wouldn't bother with the Oiran. Even with the free focus+fast they fall behind. If that Lure had been suited but like a 6 you'd see them everywhere but alas.

>>53790201

Probably not. Most people seem to play Nico as pure summoner, when he is a godlike supporter too.

>>53790276
Thanks, it is very useful information.

>>53790454
A pure killy Shenlong list I've enjoyed a lot lately is Shen+Wander, Peasant, Emissary, Sniper and LRM for 25 SS, and then some three model combination of Graves, Lone Swordsman, Bettari, Snipers, Illuminated, Kang, Burt Jebsen, etc. In an ideal world you'd get Shenlong Misdirection or maybe one or two of them RT. You won't have any cache but will have a massive threat in 6 of your 9 activations. And with the (0) focus being hurled around like candy you'll be living it up in +flip central/blast city.

It's hard to resist the urge to just buy an entire faction at once, haha. For now the monetary investment and not being emotionally strong enough to build that many Malifaux models quickly are sufficient deterrents.

>>53792016
I know the feeling. I want to buy Jack daw but I haven't even put together my von shill box yet and I've only played Misaki and hamelin once.

How's Lucius nowadays? I think I heard he got some errata awhile back.

>>53792113
He is pretty good now. It helps that a lot of new stuff works well with him. The errata lets him order austringers now too.

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>>53788710
Glad to see Malifaux generals getting some traction on /tg/ this week, there hasn't been a lot of Malifaux here the last few weeks. I like talking Malifaux here because it's not the echo chamber that the Wyrd forums or AWP Facebook group are.

>>53792016
I bought an entire Hamelin crew and everything I'd ever need to play him, it's so daunting I've not done anything other than assemble some rats. I can't even begin to imagine how crazy you'd have to be to buy an entire faction.

>>53792141
How bad's the echo on the forums? I've been combing them for info lately.

>>53792167
It's not that hard to buy an entire faction with some deals and some time. With Ten Thunders it is pretty easy because there are a lot of models that you simply want to go without, so owning everything in the faction that you would ever play for TT isn't that bad.

>>53792186
it's not a cost thing, it's the sheer volume of horrible to assemble plastic kits

>>53792202
Assembly has never been too bad for me personally. You can grind through them over time without too much thinking. The most annoying part is filling gaps IMO. What is hard it actually painting everything to a decent standard. Though I may just be lazy.

>>53792202
Join the wyrd trades Facebook group. I've gotten some crazy deals on there

>>53789733
Wyrd has a new inhouse artist, her artstyle is close enough to the old stuff in my opinion. If you look at the monday previews on the Wyrd site you can see her recent stuff, the monster hunter and bultungin, they look a lot better.

>>53792141
I've given up on both and rarely talk at all about the game outside one other local player. There's one group of solid players on AWP that think they're better than they are and poison every discussion that comes up with WM/H style "My way is the only way!" attitudes, insult every idea they didn't provide and then steal them when they work.

On the forums you've mostly got the bottom ten percent of the player base who are two years behind the meta.

I'm really starting to dislike the hipster quotient that seems to be taking over the community.

>>53789733
The artist who drew that stuff is now Wyrd's only inhouse artist. Better get used to it. On the bright side TOS is at least not following suite.

>>53792295

Any tips or tricks for gap filling? I'm not nearly as good at it as I should be.

>>53789237
Don't really care about the new Resser stuff, none of it excites me at all.

I feel like waves 4 + 5 are fixing too many weaknesses in the factions, they are becoming homogenised.

>>53792738
I do it a couple of different ways. I get away with using plastic cement to weld some parts together (Seriously, check out Tamiya Extra Thin Plastic Cement). File and sand the excess off and you should be good. Cutting the glue off when it it is still pliable is a good idea as well.

With some parts and when I am scared of fucking something up, I go with greens stuff. I bought a massive roll of it from a hardware store for like $10, and got an even cheaper set of sculpting tools from aliexpress to use. I generally wet my fingers and the tools, press the putty into place, wait a bit, and scrape the excess off while putting pressure on it. I take this time to sculpt little things onto my models to sate my autism as well (Fixing the fourth dimensional guitar strap on Sue, adding actual stirrups to the female mounted guard). I used to use Testors Model Putty, but that shit would crumble off and leave a lot of dust which you had to remove with a hard bristled brush.

It can be a pain in the ass when you have a lot of models, especially as Wyrd'ss are among the more elaborate multi part plastics on the market, but it is much better than not filling in gaps IMO. People who don't fill obvious gaps are as bad as those people who don't paint or clean mold lines off of their models.

>>53792173
It's like any forum, you get the die hard regulars who all hold the same opinions. The tacticas on the factions specifice forums are decent, but they were the first real master guides created, so everyone treats them like gospel. Just don't be afraid to try your own ideas out.

>>53792497
Yep, I know exactly the guys you are talking about on AWP, they're certainly good players but their attitude towards the game is terrible.

>>53792738
Press green stuff in to the gap with a tool ( I use the flat side of an exacto knife, smooth it out, scrape away the excess, smooth it out.

>>53792167
I also just bought Hamelin + brotherhood of the rat, still waiting for it to arrive. The rats themselves will be piss easy to paint, so it's really only 12 models, down from 22. Luckily I already have a painted Killyjoy, so that saves me some effort.

>>53792991
Which guys are you talking about?

>>53792991
Even when you beat them off the table all you hear is garbage and excuses. They can be easy enough to deal with in person but several turn into keyboard warriors the second you're not standing in front of them.

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>>53793438
Bet a dollar it's the team members who just won ITC a few weeks back.

Is Toshiro a decent Henchman for Tara? I'm just starting and think both of them are really cool looking models, and I'm willing to sacrifice peak performance to play with models I like. I'm just kind of hesitant since it doesn't seem like giving Toshiro fast does a whole lot to make him more effective at his job, and he already hands it out himself, so it seems like he might be stepping on Tara's feet a bit too much.

>>53790315
Yep, I've seen Nico played WIth Izamu, Datsue Ba and a few others just for undead crowning (or whatever it's called), it's gets pretty dirty, pretty fast.

Not to mention if any of the big hitters die he'll just summon a punk zombie to fill their place.

>>53794163
That's a pretty solid bet.

>>53788710
What are some nice addition to Guild Lucius?

Captain Dashel looks really solid to me.

>>53794720
Dashel comes with him of course, but if you really want to take advantage of him get some more guild guards so you can make full use of his upgrade. Other than that Witchling Thralls are a really good idea because they automatically pass the horror duels and hit hard. Austringers, wardens, terracotta warriors, a doppleganger, are all good bets.

>>53794846
Thanks!

Sorry, I'm a lowly novice, what upgrades do you mean?

>>53794897
With Ripples of Fate Dashel got an upgrade that lets him summon guild guard in base contact with enemies. Pretty handy in my opinion, especially if you can get it off once a turn.

>>53794980
I just saw it,spiffy jesus that looks strong,especially at a cost of 0. Then again i reckon Guild ain't got much summoning as is.

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>>53790303
>Oiran
>If that Lure had been suited but like a 6 you'd see them everywhere but alas.
Holy shit yes.
That suit is so ruinously limiting it's unreal.

Butthey'd need to be another 7ss model if they had the suit, and you'd probably only ever see one then anyway.

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>>53792141
>>53792173
>>53792497
>>53792991
>The tacticas on the factions specifice forums are decent, but they were the first real master guides created, so everyone treats them like gospel.
It really feels like Schemes & Stones, god-like starter/learning resource that it is, has warped the playerbase of the game.
And there are a whole bunch of dogshit players on there who don't seem to understand the concept of geographically isolated metas too, yes.


>>53792991
>>53793438
>>53794163

The AWP AIDS contingent must be Twavis and co.
I don't know if it's solely the attitude or if the voice is unduly setting me against him, but he annoys the piss out of me on the several podcasts I've heard him on.
If Max Value wasn't usually quite insightful I'd have to stop listening.

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>>53792738
>>53792919
>>53793009

>Glue
Do you just put a crazy excess and hopee it fills and binds the gap?
I've tried that on a few models using the liquid polycement, but it still tends to leave a depression/sunken ridge when dried.
An improvement certainly over the big cracks though.

>Green stuff
Virtually all the gaps I've ever had problems with have looked too small for green stuff to be a sensible fix - they are so fine they are practically inverse mold lines, but just a little too big to fill with paint well.

Also, how do you store your GS?

Cheers for the tips.

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>>53794163
AWP does pop out some gorgeous models though, like that one.
And also gigs of mediocre shit there's no real need to post.
But the occasional gem is worth it.

>>53794293
I don't know Tara, but being able to Fast him easily will mean that he'll be popping up Ahigaru and Komainu like daisies when the fighting actually starts.
And before then, there's no harm in an extra source of Fast and pushes.

>>53794720
>>53795015
He got the 0ss upgrade because previously no-one took him because there are better options.
I think it's probably still the case, but "Lucius is bad and Dashel's shit" became enough of a meme that he's simply not talked about.

I also think he looks pretty good, and when I finally nudge my box up over the 50ss limit, I'll be playing Dashel every time.
Unfortunately probably not with that upgrade, since it'll be in Neverborn, I need to spend stones on his upgrade slots to pad the list, and I only have the two GG from the crew box anyway.

>>53795594
Liquid green stuff for those I believe.

>>53795645
So the way I understand it, Lucius prefers to max out on minions.

Is a single guard Sergeant still a sensible take?

>>53795594
>Virtually all the gaps I've ever had problems with have looked too small for green stuff to be a sensible fix - they are so fine they are practically inverse mold lines

This is when you use the glue to melt the gap together.

>Also, how do you store your GS?
In a zip-lock bag on my hobby table, more so to keep dust and hobby sand away from it than anything else. I've head you can store mixed green stuff in the fridge, but I'm not sure if that was bullshit or not.

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>>53795645
The models are half the reason I'm on there

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Just finished my first model.

"Get low muchachos. "

Any C&C?

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>>53790874
>>53790276
I made sample crew for Shenlong to test. There is no Low River Monk for now, since despite obvious synergy, I'll, probably, purchase their box later (buying 3 models, when I'll only need one, does not inspire). I'm not sure about 10T Brothers yet. Can switch one of them for second Sniper in the list. But think that I still need to buy them.
This is by no means attempt to create "all comers" - it's just a test to see what I should buy in the first place.

Shenlong
Wandering River Style, 2SS
Peasant, 2SS
Shadow Emissary, 10SS
Conflux of The Dawn
Katanaka Sniper, 7SS
The Lone Swordsman, 8SS
Ohaguro Bettari, 8SS
Ten Thunders Brother, 5SS
Ten Thunders Brother, 5SS

Available Soulstones: 50
Total: 47
Pool: 5


For now I have this purchase plan (including discounts) for two masters:
===
Temple of the Dawn (Shenlong box) - - 36.57
An Oni's Wrath (Asami box) - - 45.71
Shadow Emissary - - 35.42
Katanaka Sniper - - 14.85
Lone Swordsman - - 9.15
Obsidian Oni - - 20.58
Ten Thunders Brothers - - 16.63
=== Total: 179$

I'm planning to pre-order Yasunori (+36.69) for Asami. And that will place me to, approximately, 215$ for 2 masters.
I definitely needs Low River Monks, but will wait a little - maybe I'll find exactly one model on the aftermarket.
Toshiro, Komainu and Porkchop will go much later, with Mei Feng. Izamu will go later as well, probably.

What else should I include in purchase list for now? Or plan for the near future.

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>>53797055
And his behind.

>>53797055
>>53797121
Nice. He is better without mohawk, I think. By "first model", you, probably, meant "first malifaux model", not "not first model ever", right?

Anyone have any experience playing with/against Titania, I'm trying to get better at using her and I could do with some general advice about how to play her better.

>>53797343
I've against her once, fears given form is a brutal upgrade for her, she forces the fears given form test on models that activate, then they take another best if they are in base to base with a scheme marker else take more damage. This combo single handedly fucked my crew, give it a go.

>>53797182
Yeah. :)

Has been a while since I painted, but this ain't my first rodeo.

I was going for a "Bane" esque look (the cables just made it too fitting) which is why I razored off the hair. Any suggestions to get closer to it?

>>53798067
His glasses and bald head pushed me to think about the Riddick (in his film form at least). I can't make suggestion about Bane, since I'm not very familiar with him. You should wait for another anon instead.

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>>53799374
Jesus, it just ties together magnificently, don't know what part to praise first.

You guys have any 'fears' that the game is reaching some sort of tilting point? A lot of reactions to the Wave 5 models is that factions seem to be running out of relevant design space, or at least Wyrd can't think of interesting things to add.

>>53799682
I'm a new player, so I don't think my opinion holds much merit here, but I think there should be a good amount of design space left, you just gotta get creative.

For starters, what about a model that switches control over two models? Something that adds conditions/extra damage if fired through, like a mobile array for guild? Line shots that penetrate, making positioning more crucial?

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I'm sincerely want as much comments, critique and insight as possible on this - >>53797074 , before I'll make an actual monetary investment.

>>53800986
I'm not super familiar with 10 thunders models because there's only one player in our meta that plays them but if you only need to pick up a single of a model check out gadzooksgaming. I got a single Jorogumo (for outcast Misaki) for $7

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>>53801044
Thanks for the info. I know about that shop, but never used it before. Right now I'm trying to persuade someone from my meta to buy something from gadzooksgaming with me, since otherwise delivery cost may be a little steep (east Europe, not EU). My other option, that I'm trying now too, is to persuade someone else to split LRM box with me.
It's not even the cost that bothers me, to be honest. It's knowing that part of the box will just stay unassembled (I don't like assemble and paint things that I don't plan to use ever). If no one will be hooked, and I'll buy full box of three - I'll most likely just gift surplus models to whoever will want to take 10T next in our meta.

So of the Wave 4 Masters, who ended up the most power creep-y? Sandeep or Reva?

>>53801778
Sandeep>Reva=Nellie>Zipp>Parker>Titania=Asami

>>53801778
Parker, Sandeep and Reva

>>53801904
So, Asami and Titania are weakest out of 7 masters? Are they weakest in their factions too?
And are Sandeep\Reva\Nellie strongest in theirs?

>>53802663
From what the store clerk told me, it's less that they're stronger, and more that they have more versatility. So whereas Masters from previous editions had a linear purpose, the new ones can be used for pretty much anything. That being said, they are (allegedly) more difficult to play and only really "stronger" in the hands of a good player who knows what he's doing.

It's funny people are talking up Parker when sic months ago he was "completely unplayable." And people cried about how mediocre Sandeep was forever.

The people who are "good" at this game and discuss it publicly are absolute trash who change their minds every fifteen minutes and try too shame anyone who disagrees.

...People called Sandeep mediocre? lol

He is a good example of >>53803070 though. He is very, very good and versatile but you have to know what you're doing with him. He's not as sturdy as he looks, and using his strengths can be complicated.

>>53803070
The versatility is a strength in that you can focus hard on playing one master to cover all the bases when others have to practice with two or more. Most top players focus on getting really good with one or two teams and playing them when relevant. These new masters let good players focus on one while being fairly average in the hands of others.

A good Sandeep or Nellie will break your spirit, but an average one just spins in circles

On a Sandeep note, is it worth having all the Gamin types for his summoning? Or do a few particularly shine.

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>>53795658
Probably - if you commit to the Gaurd theme, they're likely to need all the help they can get.

>>53797003
>The models are the sole reason I'm still on AWP

>>53797055
>>53797121

Looks so much better it's riddickulous.
Crop your photos, dipstick.

>>53803363
Dayum that's a cool Joss. Hammer is a nice touch.

And the resemblance to Riddick is completely unintentional haha. I was going for A Bane look (somewhere between Movie and Comics).

Sorry about the uncroppedness, won't be happening again.

I think the Sergeant adds a lot, what with Terror duels and bonus flips.

>>53802663
Neverborn don't actually have any weak masters, for the most part they've very decently internally balanced.
Dreamer and Lilith are standout amazing though.
Although when it comes to titania half the time I consider taking her she's competing with Pandora

>>53797074
New people in the thread it seems. So I'll re-up question

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>>53797074
>>53797074
Looks fine - You'll have access to Yu anyway, if you feel like you lack a bit of Henchman upgrade flexibility, and don't ignore High River Monks just because they're at the lower end of the curve for 6ss in 10T.

>>53803584
Thank you

> don't ignore High River Monks
In what situations should I consider them then?

>>53803584
>>53803619
High River Monks would be at the low end of the power curve of 5 SS models. Ignore them in all cases. They are the purest of garbage.

>>53803339
I've been using wind since the release, and they've recently caught on as amazing. They're the priority but they may take a nerf in the next errata. After that, it's a matter of taste.

>>53803518
Zoraida is weak outside a couple gimmick lists.

But they're honestly spoiled for choice. Some factions have multiple awful masters

>>53803722
I think the main issue with wind gamin is their cost, 4 points is too cheap, also poison gamin are not worth 5.

>>53803682
Thanks. Can you comment on purchases too? -- >>53797074

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>>53803682
Calm down AWP.

>>53803619
If there are no firing lanes for a Katanaka Sniper, or you want extra Burning/Focus shenanigans.
The three attacks on a charge is very good when it has a stat advantage on its target.
Being able to (0) Push 2" out of an engagment, then charge back in with three attacks, is not shit.
Alternatively, he can Focus, witha bonus Focus to F+2, then push into engagement and throw a big punch with many Tomes for max Burning.
Also he'll be handing out at least Burning+1 with each hit, and then B+2 on Disengaging strikes.

Having said that, they should be 5ss because they are not resilient, are card intensive and suffer hideously to condition removal.

They are strictly second-line, follow-up chargers, but in that role they can deal decent damage.

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>>53797343
She's a dick.

Hang her out in front of the crew, use Audience with the Queen to displace a model, and then the Knights can lure that model into the crew and fuck it up.

Tits herself is tough enough to weather a bunch of damage adn then heals back fucking stupidly quickly.

If you did this >>53797715 though, we might not be friends afterwards.
The auras are annoying enough without extra damage ticks.

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>>53799374
>>53799419
>Jesus, it just ties together magnificently, don't know what part to praise first.
No fucking kidding, that's gorgeous.

>>53799682
>You guys have any 'fears' that the game is reaching some sort of tilting point?
Absolutely.
If there's a Wave 6 I'm pretty sure it will collapse completely under it's own creaking weight.
As you say, the models this wave are either uninspired or moving into stupid design spaces.

>>53800068
I think it probably is because you are a new player - the balance is perhaps finer than you might think.

>>53801904
Interesting - I'd swap Parker and Titania.

>>53803926
I will have HRM whether I want it or not, since they're coming with Shen box. And will paint at least one anyway. But still, I don't know if I'd be able to squeeze HRM into the list.

Any comments on the other plans?

>>53803914
I'm more of a fan of Izamu since he's a tad more resilient but if you're also going for Yasunori the Swordsman should fit better to start with. Do note that you're gonna need that LRM to get the Shadow Emissary to really be worth it in Shenlong's case. 'Til then Yu should do. Also, be sure to get the general upgrades. Can't have a 10T list without Recalled Training. Overal that looks fine though. And if you can get your hands on a Jorogumo and a LRM from that site you should be solid until you want to spice it up.

>>53803926
Even at 5 SS there's half a dozen better models. Above all they're just very poorly designed. There really is no reason to ever take these.

>>53804121
Thank you.
Jorogumo is expensive for his 9ss, and have low 5 Ml. Do I really need him?

>>53804186
As a summon I like at least the option to throw him on the table. Even if you don't get a lot of consistent hits in, the range with which he ties things up can be a very potent tool. You're not gonna use him every game, but there tend to be plenty of moments where you might need him to lock down an area - at least for a turn.

>>53804259
Well, as an option it's probably nice to have. Thanks.

Lore question: what happened at Innocence?

>>53804309
You're "lucky" Asami doesn't have a decent toolbox yet. Any other summoner would've set you back a lot more.

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>>53803761
>Zoraida is weak outside a couple gimmick lists.
Really?
I thought her solid Obey stuff was decent?
I guess she doesn't bring much in terms of crew support though, from what I know of her.

>>53804556
Obey is pretty powerful crew support in my opinion.

>>53804556
>>53804689
Well yeah, but she doesn't do alot passively, does she?

There's the Doll shit, which is of course pretty good, and Obey, but what else does she do?
Genuine question, not snarking.

What exactly IS the Burning Man? I get that he's a result of the Governor-General's failed ascension, but do we have specifics? Does he have powers or is he helpless?

>>53805105
you can get some decent card draw, or she can be pretty mobile

>>53805474
Looking at PMF, with the Crystal Ball upgrade she can draw a card at the start of her activation - unless she's got some other good card draw I'd say 'decent' is the generous end of an accurate description.

I think it's telling that she has one of the cooler themes/gimmicks but I never hear about her, let alone see her played.

>>53804121
>Above all they're just very poorly designed
How so?
They get 3 attacks with a Burning each time.
It's a weak damage track, but they are fast counter-chargers, not sluggers.
I accept that the min 1 is crap though.
Would 2/3/4 be enough to make them worth 5ss?

>>53806211
Maybe. But as killing models they are just bad choices. Burning doesn't let you score off of dig their graves, reckoning or the like. At six rocks they are just untenable and I wouldn't recommend that anyone take them. It's a shame as I like the models.

>>53806211
They're designed around charges but only have a 6" charge and 1" Ml range, they have zero defenses (literally) so being in close combat is the one place they can't stand to be and their damage track starts with 1/2 yet it costs a card to even get that extra attack. Why would I ever take them, including the 2/3/4, if I can instead take a Komainu, TTB or hell, even a Rail Worker.

>>53804323
Read In Defense of Innocence.

>>53805244
He is earthside Jack Daw made from a mix of Cherufe and the Governor. Book 3, 4, two of the new Chronicles stories, cover everything about him. He doesn't really have a will of his own beyond destroying things, and he is supposed to be as powerful as a restored Tyrant. His conscious mind subtlety drives people crazy, and makes them his cultists.

>>53804067
Haven't seen the wave 5 models yet. The rules I've seen so far look pretty neat.

>>53805572
I think the previews is she wants beaters, to get the most out of obey. She didn't really get any great ones in Gremlins, and most of the big beaters in neverborn work better with their themed master.

>>53795645
Fug. Those models.

After playing 40k for a long, I've forgotten what cool minis look like.

>>53806477

Thanks

Does anyone know any good Asami lists and schemepools or strats to take her with? I like the idea of an Oni master but looking at her card I'm just not seeing it.

Just read the story at the back of Book 4.

Poor Hoffman

Trying to get back into Malifaux. Haven't played much since 1st.

Just ordered the new Somer box.

Any advice or suggestions?

>>53809351
You did good. But more bayou gremlins, get some piglets, and then rooster riders and you should be set. You should also look at Burt or Francois for damage. You can be adventurous as well and spam stuffed piglets to ruin your opponent's day.

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>>53803975
The aura combo isn't brokenly good, I just played poorly against it because I'd never seen it before. My opponent wont be able to do it to me next time I face Tits. Honestly half of the the game is getting wrecked by models you've never seen before.

>>53804259
Jorogumo are decent but they shine the most with Misaki and Asami.

>>53805105
In my experiences facing Zoraida she tends to mess up a key model with the voodoo doll, do some obeys and then fucks off with raven form to score undercover entourage on turn 5.

>>53809351
Slop haulers so that you can heal the 10,000 Bayou Gremlins you will be summoning.

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>>53788710

>>53804067
>If there's a Wave 6 I'm pretty sure it will collapse completely under it's own creaking weight.
Fuck, really? And I just quit Warmahordes to play this game (inb4 assmad PP fanboys). While I suppose that it isn't at 19 c/masters a faction yet, what game should I preemptively buy into when wave 6 hits in a little over a year from now? Is getting over my dislike of sportsball worth it just to play Guildball?

>>53788710
On the topic of design, what about a model that steals cards from the opponents hand on a successful activation? Theft could be randomized (they'd go back at the end of the round when cards get shuffled) and you could pair it with another ability to "make a stuff happen" if your opponent doesn't discard cards.

>>53811961
I was thinking something like. "name a scheme, if your opponent has the named scheme gain x, when you successfully name a scheme discard this upgrade" would be a neat idea

>>53812324
Gail points? I dunno, that might breach too much design space at once, currently there are no models that give points.

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>>53797074
More opinions on this, please? Purchase plan, starting masters for 10t?

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>>53806508
>Zoraida
Well, that makes sense.
Looking at her, she doesn't seem to have the additional crew-support shenanigans like Colette and Collodi that round out the play-style.

>>53808147
She's a good killer, and she can do the pushing and bullshit shenanigans that all 10T crews can.

Take a crew that can do the usual, and use Asami as a missile boat to launch Yokai at stuff that needs to die, escalating up to a Jorogumo to pin a bunch of shit in place.

>>53811949
Well, the saving grace, at least at my local, is that it usually takes a very long time for new models to actually hit the table, so even once Wave 5 lands you've probably got at least a good two or more years before Wave 6 actually hits the scene.
In the meantime, it still is a very good game.

>>53812776
Absolutely not.
Gain points would be horrendously powerful, especially as it would completely gimp the opponent for most of the game - in any given pool usually at best three of the four are sensible picks for a given crew set-up, and most of them must start scoring no later than turn 3 to get points out of them.
It would effectively guarantee a free point for any half-decent player.

That is a huge deal, when the Gaining Grounds new schemes have been steadily evolving towards giving tighter games with more interactive challenging to score/deny points - allowing a player to not even try to score full points, knowing they have a freebie in the pocket, would crash that balance.

Aside from that, Yamaziko already does something like this.

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>>53813412
You've already had opinions, it's fine, do it.

>>53811961
As for stealing cards - Wyrd, and most of the player base I suspect, is against the idea of mixing the two players' decks, for the simple reason that it increases the risk of card mishaps.

Moving on from that, the obvious place is to draw or force discards or see the opponent's had - which is one whole side of Zoraida's playstyle, stepping all over her unique(ish) design space.

As for abilities that say "discard or X happens" - that's already half the attacks in the game.

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My doomsday prophecy:

Malifaux already has enough models, I think.

While there is still design space to work with, it cannot sustain an many (any) more rotations of adding four to six models per factionper year without completely invalidating current models.

Power creep is setting in, and the number of hard-counter models and high-versatility Masters is threatening the functionality of the "Let the objectives dictate your Crew decisions" concept.

It can only get worse as models continue to be added.

>>53813655
The idea is that the card goes back at the end of the round anyways, and it would make for an interesting decision.

Do I discard my good card since my opponent might steal it or do I discard my weak cards in hopes that the unlikely steal that can't be cheated by either side fails?

I think it'd be a good fit for Neverborn, what with fitting right into Zoraida and the Trickster goodness of Lynch.

>>53813693

Do you have a good idea how to generate revenue for Wyrd through other means?

>>53813745
Nope.
But that's not really relevant to my thesis statement that continuing the current release cycle will be damaging for the health of the game within a few years.

Obviously they have to do it, especially if The Other Side doesn't work out.

>>53813791
Is there really no alternative then?

I think we ought to wait and see before panicking at least, maybe things will work out fine.

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>>53813806
>Is there really no alternative then?
I don't see one, and speaking to a couple of locals that have seen this happen to other games, and reading/listening online, it seems like a supported hypothesis.

Ten Thunders Brothers are an example of how Wyrd are not great at managing their rules design progression - they simply outclass virtually every other model in that slot, and have done for a couple of books, to the point that there are probably half a dozen models in the faction that barely see the table because it's usually a better idea to take a Brother.

With points as non-granular as they are, Wyrd seem to struggle to design a model that actually has a role compared with the current catalogue of available models.

C.f. The ongoing argument about High River Monks.

>>53813873
What about reverse power creep then? Weaker models will hardly be an issue, and would allow for more design space. They can also always be fixed retroactively via upgrades.

>>53813693
I'm personally fine with the idea of building a crew to suit the objective becoming defunct, it has always been my least favorite part of the game. Instead I'd like to see a few medium sized pools of schemes (exact numbers up in the air of course but let's just say 7 for the sake of argument) with an assortment of different schemes so that you aren't forced to play a crew you don't want to because of them.

As for new design space, maybe something else to spend soulstones on during crew creation or even in game, like a special ability that costs soulstones from your cache to use. I don't think it'd hurt the game to explore some more "your guys" design space either, maybe even give them different "kits" they could purchase like upgrades that change their abilities.

>>53813806
>Is there really no alternative then?

I think the only way to continuously release content w/o eventually succumbing to bloat and power creep is with some kind of rotating format. There's already kind of a hint of this with the yearly Gaining Ground objectives, but I'm not sure how well it would go if actual models became (even temporarily) unplayable in a tournament season.

The other alternative is to just eventually reboot to 3.0, rebalance everything, and start creeping up again. Even that becomes less feasible as more and more stuff needs to make it into each new edition though.

>>53813745
>game is getting shitty
>but it's totally necessary becaue m-muh good of the company!

Running Sonia in our local league which is a better week one buy, samael, handlers, or brutal emmissary?

Is there a list of limited edition and/or alternative models Wyrd has released?

Related: where do you get an alternate Barbaros?

>>53813693
Can you give any examples of said models? I really don't see where you are coming from with this entire the sky is falling thing while most people believe that the game is solid (Possibly in the best state that it has ever been) right now.

>>53817164
>Barbaros
https://www.gadzooksgaming.com/products/alternate-barbaros

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Barbaros-Malifaux-special-edition-/201955305221?hash=item2f05796705:g:Pr0AAOSwgv5ZQXQ2

etc

On list question - I don't know

>>53813693
Yeah. It's definitely a problem. As a company they can't make money I I'd they can't keep seeing models. I'm hoping that the other side works or for them, even if I'm not interested. Malifaux has a bit of a problem compared to last scale war games, in that they don't generated the same level of income, because you don't need models by the hundreds.

There's still design space to explore, but I'm worried about it going weird places like adding giant models, and vehicles to the game.

I'd honestly be down for more wyrd games. I'd love a cyberpunk/sci-fi skirmish game with the same ruleset.

A more standard fantasy game/setting would probably sell to, even if it's less interesting.

I think I'd like now alternative models, not run as limited releases to generate income for wyrd.

I kind of want "Malifaux origins" too. For a while Hamlin was available as both henchmen and master. It's be cool to see a bunch of masters with henchmen versions, like a Nico when he still had his leg, or a Hoffman before he crossed the barrier.

>>53815665
They are a business after all,if there's no money in there it stops being produced.

>>53813693
My Prediction

Wave 5 drops, there is no wave 6 in 2018.

Wyrd does another campaign in 2018, new gaining grounds, eratta wave to iron out all of the bullshit before dropping M3e at the end of 2018.

>>53818141
Seems kinda soon for a new edition. I don't see one coming it before 2020.

>>53809814
>>53811479
Thanks. I've already got the old metal slop haulers and Ophelia's metal box.

What's the appeal of rooster riders? I haven't looked at the card recently, but nothing jumped out at me.

>>53818349
>What's the appeal of rooster riders
You can make jokes about the opponent taking the powerful thrusts of your gremlin's enormous cock

>>53818141
I really don't think that they need a M3E, as the game is pretty solid right now. Maybe a 2.5 would be worth it to change the silly elevation rules.

Sandeep's versatile as shit and can do anything pretty well so long as you build right, but would you bring with him in a 2 or 3 Master pool?

>>53818433
What would you want in elevation rules?

>>53817922
I'm fine with that. Better a game that was good and died than one that went to shit.

>>53818549
Make it more intuitive. I don't think that the game needs to be turned into Infinity, but having your height added to your reach when attacking a model above you would make sense. As it is right now many models can not even scratch their own head.

>>53818554
You know that it won't happen with Malifaux, or most non-historical games for that matter. Personally I believe that getting into Age of Sigmar: Shadowspire is the right decision. The writing is on the wall that the Malifaux will go to shit in two years time, while Shadowspire is shaping up to be the premier fantasy skirmish game.

>>53818549
>>53818650
I'd say add the elevation's Ht to your Ht for terms of LoS and keep it at that. And while you're at it, reduce climbing penalties to simply 1" per Ht. Might make it actually appealing.

>>53818680
>reduce climbing penalties to simply 1" per Ht
That would ruin the point of a lot of terrain though if you could climb through it as fast as you would walk. What needs to be reworked is LoS, as it is confusing. Otherwise they are all small things, as much like Warmahordes. Malifaux plays from a top down perspective.

>>53818650
I thought you did that now, at least that's how I'd been playing it.

>>53818727
What's wrong with line of sight? I like the way it works now.

>>53818676
>premier skirmish game
>five pages of rules that boil down to: uh yeah everything is it's own unit now and x, y, and z armies/models are useless because their stuff literally just doesn't work anymore

The skirmish rules are an afterthought. They'll never be "the premier skirmish game" when dedicated skirmish games exist.

>>53818799
All distances are measured from the base, including upwards. If you want to houserule that then it works out.

>>53818676
>Malifaux might go to shit, so I'll just invest in a game that's already shit
Lol

>>53818860
Shadespire is its own game though.

>>53818926
Red shirts fucking infest this board.

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>>53817341
>I'd honestly be down for more wyrd games. I'd love a cyberpunk/sci-fi skirmish game with the same ruleset.
>>53817424
>I kind of want "Malifaux origins" too.

I could live with these options too - the system is really solid inb4 elevation, we all know and can easily serve as a base for other games, they just need to not 40k this one.

>>53818141
I'm with you up until
>M3e at the end of 2018.
at which point I agree with >>53818259
>Seems kinda soon for a new edition.
We're looking 2019/20 earliestfor a full edition, I think.

Agree with >>53818433 too, just make them more intuitive and less like a 2D game in 3D.
>Maybe a 2.5 would be worth it to change the silly elevation rules.

Basically they need to make up their mind if it is a counters game or a models game.
If it's the latter, and it is, then they need to sort out LoS and Elevation and shit like that so that those two and Height interact in a straightforward and intuitive manner.

As a couple fo people have already said in this thread, for example they unknowingly play the rules wrong already because common sense dictates that your Reach extends from your shoulders not your ankles, and therefore it's natural to assume you add Ht to Reach for all models, not just big ones.

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>>53818525
>Sandeep's versatile... but would you bring with him in a 2 or 3 Master pool?
Is, I assume:
>but WHO ELSE would you bring?

The answer is your other Sandeep.
If you can play him well, there's no need for anyone else, unless the table is so poorly laid out that Rasputinartillery makes sense, or literally every strat and scheme involves Interacting except Frame for Murder.

He's good enough at everything that you might as well devote twice as much time to perfecting him, rather than divide your attention between two Masters.
It's part of the reason I think he's 'broken' - not so much OP as too good-enough-at-everything.

Another question that indirectly pertains to the previous ones: should Malifaux be a competitive game?

Sure balance is also important for enjoyment, but if we get rid of the strict tournament mentality most of the issues were are facing suddenly vanish.

>>53819314
>should Malifaux be a competitive game?
To the extent that it has tightly made rules as it does right now? Yes. It is very much a chess game, and that can cause some burnout, but that is a lot of its appeal right now. I play Saga when I want something stupid.

>>53819363
Sure, but even chess is mostly played recreationally.

We keep talking about optimization and perfect lists but at the end of the day, why do we play Malifaux? To win, or to have a good time?

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>>53818349
Fast, (1)AP charge, reasonable attack, trigger to charge again(?), and some sort of bonus to damage when they are below half health.
Eexcellent scheme runners for Gremlins, and excellent sweepers to defend against scheme runners.

Match: Window. 11/12 squares. Fuck you Captcha.

>>53819421
Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. Regardless the game has never been very fluffy, and has always been along the lines of Warmachine with subterfuge. The mechanics are very much divorced from super casual narrative games, especially with the focus on synergies and positioning. It would be neat if someone made a light clone of some sort ala One Page 40K, but otherwise you would have to completely redo the ruleset if you wanted to gravitate it towards a more casual style of play.

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>>53814103
Weaker models are pointless bloat, doubly so if they are being added just for the sake of making additions.

>>53814383
>I'm personally fine with the idea of building a crew to suit the objective becoming defunct
I get that some folks aren't overly fond of it, but I've always thought of it as the point and the most interesting part of Malifaux, as opposed to any other game.

And do you mean have 7 Schemes in the pool per game?
Seems like there would be far too many variables to have any meaningful counterplay to prevent your opponent scoring.

As for design space - I don't like the idea of adding Feats, but I could live with more specific/limited upgrades, or Veteran-like upgrades to Masters.
Not want, but tolerate.

>>53814650
>The other alternative is to just eventually reboot to 3.0, rebalance everything, and start creeping up again.
Obviously this has it's own problems, but I'm starting to think it needs to happen sooner than I thought two years ago.

The biggest problem being that the 1.5>2 boot half-killed the game with how long it took to get rules for everything back in circulation.

>>53819314
>Should Malifaux be a competitive game?
Should Wyrd abandon trying to keep it so?
Definitely not, because the fact that it has so many varied options but few unbeatable deathstar NPEs is one of the things preventing it from being the cancer that people whine about in GW and PP games.

>>53819480
>>53819493
I see. Still, let's not fret until the sky has actually fallen. At the moment the game's in a healthy state, and who knows, perhaps the find folk at Wyrd manage to come up with a sensible solution. Keeping the game exciting is in their best interests after all.

>>53819421
It should be balanced, whether it's competitive or casual.
>>53819430
Better or worse than iron skeeters, do you think?

>>53819493
Like I said, 7 was just a number I pulled out of my ass, obviously there would need to be playtesting to find a good number, but having defined pools that schemes come in would allow them to balance each pool so that each playstyle at least has a chance.

I simply feel like continuing the game as it is just pigeonholes it down the path of failure, there needs to be some kind of fundamental rules change to shake up the core of the game and make stuff that never sees play a realistic choice. I don't think that my idea would necessarily resemble feats, since you get your one feat once a game, instead having an ability on some models that consumes a ss presents new decisions in resource management.

>>53814383
>I'm personally fine with the idea of building a crew to suit the objective becoming defunct, it has always been my least favorite part of the game
Agreed. When I want to play Malifaux, or more other games, I want to play with the mostly I want to play with not the ones optimized for the situation.

It might mean losing more games, but I'm alright with losing if it means I get to use the models I think are cool and fun.

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>>53819666
I see what you are saying, and I think we're just down to opinions here bar a truly spectacular counterpoint, but my final word before agreeing to disagree:

The random pools prevent, or significantly reduce, the ability to generate fixed lists.
The purpose they serve is to keep Crew contents dynamically shifting, preventing the game being 'solved' for each match-up.
This serves to keep players, local metas and global metas constantly shifting, keept the game fresher.

I personally like the process itself, and also the concept/reasoning behind it, though I can fully understand >>53819670 this.
>I want to play with the mostly I want to play with not the ones optimized for the situation.

>>53819808
Not the guy, but I think that's a terrific point.

>>53819808
Well if you simply remove the ability to build your list after finding out the schemes then there is no solving.

It may also just be my area but lists are basically "solved" here. Like if you're playing against ressers and there are a few marker schemes you're gonna see crooligans and necropunks, etc. All that being able to tailor your list does in my eyes is ensure you always get the most optimal list and that you'll alwaya see the same models for the same schemes. If you had to generalize then models somewhere between beatsticks and scheme runners could see more play.

>>53818727
After climbing 3" you're still in the same spot but 3 Wk down. All it'd do is not cordon off higher areas and keep them from being Sniper city. And even a Ht1 fence would set you back 1 Wk. And then let flying models land on buildings without paying the Ht cost. Might allow for some more creative board set ups as opposed to block-block-wall-bush-block.

>>53819670
>the mostly
The models.
Glad I still got the point across.
>>53819808
That is a pretty good point. I usually end up running mostly the same crew I wanted to before finding out what the strategies and schemes are, with a few tweaks

>>53819808
That is a pretty good point.
I'd honestly like a few more ways of generating games. Like an option to pick crews and then find out what the strategy is, or bidding.

A texas hold'em or poker hand mini game to decide how things play out.

>>53820513
I think I prefer it the way it is now. It makes units that fly more powerful, and even weak units in a good position are a thread you have to deal with.

I also like it for the option of climbing down the slow way, or just taking the fall damage if you need to get somewhere fast.

Does summing place models? I was wondering for the Gravedigger model with roten's summoning.

How do the factions stack up against each other competitively, nowadays? I recall a lot of moping about Guild's difficulty winning schemes/strats, but that was before Nellie.

>>53822502
Gremlins and Neverborn seem to have good winpercentages in most tournament results, but it's hard to really get an accurate read on things like this. It's more meta dependent than anything.

>>53822502
Every faction is competitive, but some have more options than others. Gremlins and Arcanists are probably the strongest overall.

>>53819166

Whoops, sorry. Yeah, meant "who else". Sandeep's 'that bad' huh? Interesting, haha.

>>53822588
They got their shit stomped in in Divergent Paths though. Didn't manage to win a single week for any of the three characters.

>>53823557
Gremlins I mean.

>>53823557
Divergent Paths was largely a popularity contest though. Being played more was quite an advantage and Gremlins have one of the smallest player bases.

>>53813693
not much of stretch, since every miniature game ends up like this eventually. There is only so much you can add to a game before it collapses under itself, and companies will always continue to add, since they need to always be making money.

The only solutions I see are for them to bite the PR bullet and say 'these models are no longer viable/produced' in order to cut down bloat or a new edition were they revamp everything. But that only works for so long as well.

>>53823671
No, it was based on ratio of wins and losses by faction.

>>53823731
Scoring for each story encounter will be each Faction’s wins divided by the square root of the number of players.

It draws it closer together but the faction with more players (assuming roughly even winrates) will still edge out.

How much does a general lack of long-ranged attacks really hinder Ressers? Barring some extreme examples like Sonnia and Perdita, guns don't seem -that- great in Malifaux unless your terrain setup is trash.

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>>53821260
>Does summing place models?
Yup.
I don't particularly mean this as a pop at you more than others, and a lot of it is due to the number of rules and the layout, but:
It's ridiculous how many questions here are just a matter of using the book index.

At least that one wasn't a "I'm fishing for someone to confirm my obviously-counter-to-the-rules interpretation of this only-slightly-ambiguous wording" rules question.

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>>53823083
I'm exaggerating for effect of course, but... yes.

>>53820409
>lists are basically "solved" here. Like if you're playing against ressers and there are a few marker schemes you're gonna see crooligans and necropunks, etc.
So why aren't you taking backfield sweepers against Ressurs?

To be blunt because I just got home from losing a game against the Crossroads 7 in which I misplayed AND got thoroughly outplayed anyway if you are not adapting your list to things you know are coming, you're being lazy - that's a fault in how you choose to play the game, not the crew-selection system.

>>53820640
>I'd honestly like a few more ways of generating games.
>Like an option to pick crews and then find out what the strategy is,
Sounds like many are already doing this...

>or bidding.
This sounds very interesting.
Off the top of my head:

After setting up the table's terrain, you declare the sides and corners that will be available as Deployment zones.
Then you draw your six card hand.
Flip one card each, high card being Strategy and low being Deployment (suits only again).
Then one card each for a scheme.

THEN you pick Crews, reveal, and select Schemes.

In both cases, you can cheat (your own flip) from your hand (lower number first as usual), but you do not draw a new hand until the start of Turn 2 - Rush of Magic and Arcane Reservoir can add to/alter that Turn 0/Turn 1 hand, and you can stone for cards before the Initiative flip as normal.

You get a good level of control over the Schemes available, but it costs you to tune it to your liking.

Does boost card-draw bullshit even harder though, which is lame.

Have a 50ss fixed list tourney this saturday. Think I am going to go with brewie:

The Brewmaster + 6 Pool

- Binge (1)

Apprentice Wesley (3)

Mancha Roja (10)

- Dirty Cheater (1)

- Mud Toss (1)

Trixibelle (8)

Lenny (9)

Performer (6)

Akaname (4)

Akaname (4)

What do you guys think of this list? Any major changes you would make?

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>>53788710

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>>53824466
>Bidding system
Actually it should probably be "flip two each for Schemes" so people don't just dump low cards for advantageous Suits.
But then you potentially end up with eight Schemes available.
And having Player 1 flip two, decide to cheat either or not, and then letting Player 2 pick which card is selected for the shared pool is problematic in its own way.

I guess you could slide everything down the bench and eliminate Suited Schemes, instead having Doubles, Triples and Quadruples.
But that makes writing and balancing schemes difficult, and lets people easily force the easiest ones for their intended crew, and entirely removes the easiest way of tuning the game - managing the frequency with which Schemes pop up.

Or do what we did tonight, which was re-flip until we got a pool we liked.
{spoiler]i.e. Not fucking Interference yet again.

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>>53824517
>Any major changes you would make?
>inb4 "Master"

I'd maybe question only 8 activations in such a traditionally squishy crew/faction.
You won't have the ablative models to survive deaths, and you won't have the activation control to manouevre around all their beaters.

Does Mancha Roja do enough damage to be your main beater?
I don't know his card at all.
And/or are you leaning on Lenny for that role?

Otherwise should be decent.

Can Brewie Obey?
Getting >2 Sip of Wine faux-Expunges off per turn would be beastly.

Do you play Brew regularly?
I'd be interested to hear what you actually do with him if so.

I'd also be very interested in hearing a report of how it went after the fact, in as much or as little detail as you can be bothered to provide.

>>53824517
Rule #1 of playing Brewmaster; Don't do poison. Just get a decent all-round crew and give 3-4 enemies -'s a turn after which your big beaters go to town on them.

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>>53824699
Lenny is there for his passives and how turn one he can throw trixie upfield so she can lure brewie and roja. I never find him dishing out a ton of damage unless he is next to trixie.

I like roja because overlapping Challenge and Drinking contest can get really gross. TN14 WP duel and having negatives to your WP usually result in things being locked up. Being able to execute paralyzed models is another nice touch and most people don't see it coming. Was runninga rooster rider and a lightning bug before I took him.

Brewmaster has "two" obeys. One obey on his card that doesn't have the suit built in and if you cast binge on a friendly model you can discard a mask to make them perform an action. I usually have wesley cast binge on brewie, have brewie discard a mask to get a 4th master ap out of him.

Another combo which I don't get off often is having the akaname poop out a marker as a (0) which they can do in combat and then have the performer explode the marker inside of a group of enemies.

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>>53824699
>>53824953

The other trick I do is double walk an akaname turn 1 and have wesley charge it. Wesley's charge is 6inches and his melee range is 2inches so as long as you keep the akaname within 8 you are good. This lets wesley move up the board and put 4 stacks of poison onto an akaname.
Now the ball is starting to roll, from there the akaname can cast spray filth onto the other akaname so that one will have 3 stacks of poison and the other will have 2. This gives them enough stacks of poison to poop out scheme markers so that one can finish claim jump alone. They have a charge range of 7 so it's not hard to get them back into the fight after they drop their loads.

Last tourney I went 10-0 with the brewmaster after I stoned for a suit on his defensive and sent levi back to his deployment zone TWICE in the same game. If it is a MI7+ attack I won't bother unless they are at negs from swill condition, but people at my club say I am the only one who gets his def trigger off ever. I haven't done this but it would also be possible to obey a model to attack the brewmaster and make it whiff the attack in order to make sure you can get your def trigger off. It's a costly move but it can remove some big guys or ruin synergy. Some people try and get smart when you cast binge on them and take the option to let you make a (1) cost action for them. Wham now their master/beater is attacking the brewmaster and being sent home for being drunk.
I think it is also worth stoning on your melee attack to apply poison +2 and the swill condition.

>>53824359
Yeah. Sorry it's pretty simple, but i haven't played in a while, and didn't have the rulebook handy when I was looking at the wave 5 cards.

Unless something changes it looks like gravediggers are going to be pretty crazy card draw engines for Nico.

Is Kirai as OP as the Wyrd Forums portrays her? I feel they're dead wrong about Spirit Molly being objectively superior to Horror Molly, so

>>53825480
She's very good but I wouldn't call her OP.
She's one of those masters that once you know what you're doing with and all her little tricks she can absolutely wreck shit but she's quite finicky to get the most out of.

How do you guys play hamelin? I have him but I want to get better with him since people say he's so versatile.

>>53825552

That was my read. At high-level play she looks nasty, but like Sandeep a novice isn't going to pick her up and dominate out the gate.

>>53825748
Which masters are the most beginner friendly, basically the oposite of people like Kirai and Sandeep?

>>53825800

I don't feel remotely qualified to give this a comprehensive answer. But I'd say folks like Von Schill, Perdita, and Seamus come to mind as very straightforward and easy to use Masters.

>>53825800
Seamus for rezzers, von shill for outcasts, Pandora for Neverborn

>>53825800
Ophelia is pretty straight forward for gremlins.
A lot of the beat stick masters are fairly straight forward.

>>53825800
Lynch and Misaki, at least for 10T

Not looking for full 50ss "all-comers" lists, but does anyone have preconfigured "cores" for Molly and Kirai that they could share?

>>53825800
Lady Justice is the go to noob master.

I apologize as I haven't taken the time to dig through Chronicles, but are there any other solitare scenarios besides the University of Transmortis one?

Is "the nanny" that pushes Phillip's carriage a zombie of any relevance? Or is she just a random undead Molly picked up/made.

Actually, does Molly actually do much in the way of resurrectionist activity?

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>>53824953
>>53825240
Nice, thanks for the write-up.
That all sounds like good fun, and pretty effective.

As a Colette player, I am fond of Seducing markers in combat for massive damage (later).

TheAkaname sound like very good scheme runners after winding them up - since all I hear is bad, is it just a matter of people trying to use the Poison synergy wrong?

I know our Brewie player still crows about the one and only time he got the Df Trigger off, so if you're doing it somewhat consistently you are playing your odds and Stones right.

I guess if you are looking predominantly at board control and chip damage, Roja's more use to you than two smaller damage dealers as well.

Noice.

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>>53825568
Enough Rats for the engine, a big beater, more rats, a decent scheme runner, more Rats, a back-fieled sweeper, more Rats.
Probably worth looking at ranged stuff, since there're going to be fucking Rats everywhere.

>>53825800
>>53826245
>A lot of the beat stick masters are fairly straight forward.
This is the easiest answer.
My one caveat is that Misaki is probably not a great choice because she necessarily goes so deep and dies so quickly that it will appear very underwhelming.
Same for Mei, possibly also the Viks.

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>>53828154
I'd also be interested in this.
If at all possible, it would be cool to add stuff like this to the General OP.

>>53829791
She 'belongs' to someone other than Molly initially, I believe, but I can't quite remember who.
A named female non-model, non-main character, I think.

The problems of listening to Tales from the Breach while working - I apssively absorb the fluff, but miss a bunch of detail.

>>53825568
Always take Hollow Nix.
As if shutting down Conditions wasn't bad enough, no Blasts just ruins most peoples' day - nobody has the AP to wade through the swarm.

>>53825800
If you want to get into Arcanists, Ramos has an amazing starter box that barely needs anything else to function.

>>53825800
>>53831098
This might also help you out a bunch.

>>53831116
...

Here's the link.

https://schemesandstones.wordpress.com/category/building-on-a-budget/

>>53824359
>obviously-counter-to-the-rules interpretation of this only-slightly-ambiguous wording
So, here is my question:

> DF (:masks) Misdirection:
> After an Attack from an enemy model succeeds against this model, target model within 2" of this model must discard two cards or suffer the effects of the Attack Action instead of this model. The model which Attacked this model may not be the target.

This is "target model within 2", not "target enemy model within 2", so can I use Misdirection on my own model? Can I willingly refuse to discard cards, to completely soak all damage from the leader to my lowly minion?

>>53825480
Kirai has a high skill ceiling, a good Kirai player will trash people. Definitely not OP though, the Kirai hate toned down a lot when Reva came out, Reva is the new FOTM whinge resser.

Spirit Molly is crap compared to Horror because Horror has Punk zombies, hard to kill is insanely strong on her summoned models that come in with an average of 2 wounds. Punk zombies also have + flips built in, so no jumping through hoops applying adversary to get the same effect for spirits.

Spirit is bin tier comparitively.

>>53829791
In the earlier fluff Molly did plenty of things while she was with Seamus (Breaking him out of jail, bringing him back to life) but in the more recent stories she's basically trying to keep the streets safe at night and working as a reporter for Nellie during the say.

>>53828154
I think all of the story boxes have a single player game, I know brotherhood of the rat has one for certain.

>>53825568
Also jumping on the Hamelin train, does anyone run Killyjoy with him on the Regular? It seems like a good idea. In Most crews Killjoy can be countered easy if your opponent is clued in, but with Hamelin it seems like even if they are, out activating them is going to make Killjoy a real bastard to deal with.

>>53832655
My friend loves to run killjoy with Hamelin. He also runs Hans in the same list. He took 2nd place at the TFL with Hamelin so make of that what you will.

>>53832020
Yep. Or better yet, an Izamu/Samurai who can then heal himself back up.

>>53833242
Nice, thanks

Stoked for wave 5. Send like Nico got a lot of love. He's adding a ton of summonable minions.

The new zombie riders seem like a great way to put out damage and generate corpse counters.

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>>53831098
>>53831116
>>53831124

>Ramos has an amazing starter box that barely needs anything else to function.
>barely needs anything else to function.

Hardly true - it really needs at least one additional box of Steam Arachnids, because without them he'll run out of summoning-room by turn 2 or 3.

>>53832020
That's not ambiguous wording at all.
Permissive rule set, and a semi-decent technical writer writing them.

>>53832595
Yeah, that's kind of rough - the H2K availability of Horror somewhat replaces the advantage of Incorporeal for Spirit.

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>>53836209
I fear too many buffs to Nico.
He's already obnoxius with the murder-bubble of summons.
I can't wait for him to be flinging around killy monsters riding zombie horses at high speed.

>>53833242
I have done this a couple of times. I had Misaki and Izamu go down board, with Misaki misdirecting all of Reva's attacks onto Izamu, stabbing thing things until I won the game.

>>53832655

The problem with Killjoy is that he's a lot of points for one trick. He's very feast or famine in terms of results, and you'll see a sharp drop off once your friends get used to him popping out.

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>>53836477
>He's very feast or famine in terms of results,
Yup - he's a swing, just as badly as (if not worse than) Howard Langston or Nekima.

>you'll see a sharp drop off once your friends get used to him
This is probably an understatement.
If they have a way of sending him back into your crew, which with Hamelin they can probably find a way, then he'll be off fucking your shit instead of theirs.

Ronin and other Disguised models, especially Oiran, are great for that - I block his lanes to my crew and lure one of his models into charge range, and he's fucked.

He is good for causing a scramle though, and he usually fucks up a plan - he is the Mike Tyson punch to the face, usually.

>>53832623

Nice. I'm glad she's broken the stockholm syndrome some. Seamus is just...gross, as a character.

What do Jack Daw crew lists look like? His design concept seems hilarious, but his box crew meh.

>>53836399
I don't think Nico has to worry about being too powerful, anytime soon, but we'll see.

After using belles for a long time as a hooker chariot to get Nico upfield, using an actual undead horse seems cool.

The pile of bones seems cool to. Pretty killy with a decent ranged attack. Since they've got a hard to wound, by a different name, they get to use it even against stuff that bypasses hard to wound. Reducing damage to zero is pretty swank to. Two of them with a grave spirit sounds fun. You can use them to slow thinks up, then telleport next to a useful corpse counter late game.

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>>53839420
The way I hear it is that his card draw is nearly as much of a problem as Somer's, but his summons tend to be better than Bayou Gremlins, and his crew buff is more brutal.

>>53840830
He's also much less of a heavy hitter than Somer. His summoning is better but more resource intensive.

Nico is a rough match up for some crews, but he's not that spectacular.

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>>53841292
Last time I played him I was still deep in a mono-Colette-thematic phase, so I didn't have the damage to deal with... anything, really, but the Punks were shredding my girls, and marker shenanigans is no good when you can't see through the horde to throw markers anywhere useful.
At least you can see over Gremlins, and they have pitiful Df and Wds.

>>53841790
Collette definitely needs a beater. Playing against her with Nico is rough, if you get the tight schemes and strategy.

I've tabled Collette crews and still lost 7-3.

>>53839266
You'll usually cut Montressor and only run one or two Guilty, and his totem is nice but hardly mandatory.

Most of your crew will be staple Outcast beaters, one or two C7 members (Envy is a great choice for carrying the Creeping Terror upgrade), and some tarpits or support pieces (Drowned, Undead Bandits, Nurses and/or Librarians).

Shooting models - especially ones with rapid fire - are pretty popular since you've got a good number of pushes kicking around to disengage your guys or move something into range.

>>53842937
That's probably how I'd run it. A lot of outcast masters do better just running outcast good stuff instead of trying to do a theme.

>>53842937

Heh, Crossroads Seven makes sense. Jack always looked like he was doing air guitar anyway

>>53842937
Is Monty still not worth it with the errata and 0 upgrade? Thanks for the advice. I think that it would be hilarious to turn Taelor into a tormented model and push her around.

Haha, wow. Digging through the archive I found one of the biggest proponents of Spirit Molly > Horror Molly on the Wyrd forums saying Reva "isn't in anyway on par with the majority of the power creep in book 4" at first.

>>53792141
I'm going to see if there are any groups in my area.
I love skirmish games, but Shadow War Armageddon is a pale and bloodless clone of Necromunda, and I hate the smug nature of the Infinity community and their butt-ugly models.

So some advice for a noob?

I like to cover the playfield with powerful sniper overwatch while a small elite melee team advances under their cover to assault to wipe out points of resistance.

And the models have to look amazing so those assholes Andy, Greg and Naomi (YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE) can stop pretending Infinity models aren't shit.

>>53847793
You might like outcasts. Friekrops snipers are great, and they've got great melee beaters to.

Guild is another option. Or ten thunders.

Really if just grab whatever crew your looked the look of. Most of them can play straight out of thier starting box, and there aren't a whole lot of bad choices. The viks box + some ranged support sounds like it might be up your ally.

>>53848520
I must admit though, Lucius' described playstyle is entirely foreign to me, but sounds like fun.

Does Malifaux have a campaign element like Mordheim/Necromunda, or is it just another tabletop game only with less models?

>>53843068
Outcast good stuff is the best stuff.

>>53847793
I would suggest starting Guild.

The Guild is the faction with, basically, the least amount of weird bullshit. Everyone else has got zombies, magic leaking out their ears, weird faerie powers, kung fu, or whatever. Meanwhile the Guild has men with guns and a few robots. (For the most part. There's a little bit of weird west and other wacky stuff going on). They're fairly straightforward in fluff and on the table. They've got models that shoot things and models that support the models that shoot things.

Which isn't to say they're boring or simplistic. In fact they're one of the better factions for positioning abilities and chain activation combos. Those tricks are probably going to set up an engagement or open a firing line, though, instead of applying some weird condition to the enemy or dumping markers on the other side of the board.

Within the Guild, the masters I'd suggest would be Perdita, Sonnia, and McCabe.

Perdita and her family of cowboys are probably the most straightforward. Strong shooting, a few thematic models that are good at melee range, and abilities to avoid accidentally shooting each other.

Sonnia is more like a powerful artillery piece who usually takes a screening force to engage in melee, although you can certainly take some larger beaters if you'd like. She's strong enough by herself that you can be pretty flexible with your crew.

McCabe is a support master, so how he plays depends a lot on which other models you bring with him. He can push guys around to advance your beaters or keep your gunline out of trouble, or just throw someone a sword to turn a sniper or a weaker screening model into a pretty formidable melee threat.

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>>53842480
Oh yeah, I've been table and won convincingly.
She's fun - throwing girls under the bus to keep people away from your markers for one more turn is real eddge of your seat stuff.

>>53842937
>>53844104
I played Colette into Crossroads 7 in Extraction a couple of days ago.

is a nightmare - a 4" aura is significantly more difficult than a 3" one for avoiding overlapping auras.
One aura, with Colette's low-Wd crew, is problematic, but two or three or more overlapping auras is bananas.
Doubly so with a contest-the-point Strat.
I took Accusation as my other, with a crew full of Performers and Rail Workers and Metal Gamin, and watched them melt too fast to secure the third point.
Lost 5/6-8, the margin so narrow purely because my lot died so fast he couldn't score more for Last Stand.

I know I was light on damage anyway, but he put his two H2W opposite my Rail Workers ane neutred them.

And Envy is monstrous.

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>>53848561
>Does Malifaux have a campaign element like Mordheim/Necromunda,

It does, yes.
It's pretty good, but the base game is not all that Your-Dudesy, so bear that in mind.

Also, it's not a Necromunda or Mordheim bang and slam one-hour job - I don't think I've ever played a game under 90 minutes, and most are over two hours.

>>53848800
>The Guild is the faction with, basically, the least amount of weird bullshit.
This is a good write up.
The Ortega Family (picrelated, the cowboy daemon hunters described) also have access to solid melee guys within the same faction, and one of the Family is a sniper par excellence, and they can still hire in mercenary snipers.

>>53849152
What can you tell me about Lucius?
I think I want to play a side that makes my opponent want to flip the table.

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>>53849048
>CREEPING TERROR is a nightmare -
Oops.

>>53849181
Lucius got some pretty hefty buffs with the most recent errata, which has brought him more in line with other support masters. Personally, he looks a lot like Guild Colette. He's got ways to hand out his AP to your team with a little extra value, a teleport, and an action to help his crew interact.

If you want to make people flip tables in Guild, Lucius isn't a terrible choice. You might be better off with Nellie, or just Sonnia if you blast through their whole crew by the end of the 2nd turn.

When exactly does Molly part ways with Seamus? In 2e's Core she thinks of him positively and busts him out of the nuthouse. In Crossroads she's off on her own and tells Kirai about how awful a person Seamus is and laments the life he stole from her. Clearly there's something between this but I don't know where.

I only clicked this thread because of the tiddy and curves in the OP.

>>53849687

you would

>>53849639
The story is in one of the chronicles (Wyrd's Magazine).

Long story short she just does what she wants and then sicks his own rotten belles on him causing him to fuck right off.

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>>53849687
hngg

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>>53849181
As far as just being a giant cuntrag, Lucius probably isn't the best, but if that's the goal I can't advocate stongly enough that you go eslewhere.

He does play a fun game with AP distribution and amplification though - most of his actions cause another model to take an action, at a cost but with a bonus, and he's not a complete slouch at the fightan himself.

>>53849181
Lucius is probably one of the harder masters to use. I probably wouldn't recommend him to someone starting out.

Their are more tricks/annoying masters out there.

If the goal is just to be a dick to your opponent, you might be better off with 40k or MTG.

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>>53850181
>Long story short she just does what she wants and then sicks his own rotten belles on him causing him to fuck right off.
Oh thank god.

Seamus is not only a grubby fucker, but irritating as fuck to boot.

Unrelated note - I picke dup pic related recently.
Holy fucking shit it this unfriendly to build.

>>53851805
Better or worse than yan Lo's beard?

What are the best models for doppelgangers and changelings to steal attacks from? I've seen people suggest Envy before. Is anything else particularly good?

>>53852719
If you go up against Zipp steal his place attack, he has Ml 3 but the Changelings use it at Ml 4.

I'm stupid excited for wave 5. I just really want to play roten+Nico+emissary for Ml 10 +twist mindless zombies.

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>>53852719
>>53852719
For utility:
Johan's hammer (reach, damage)
McTavish's gun (ignore cover on the way in, ok damage)
Trapper rifle (range)
All sorts of Master attacks (like Lilith's sword)

Basically anything with good damage without a suit requirement (she can't Stone for suits), or with useful properties.

>>53851805
I think so.
Or rather, it's as if Yan Lo had five beards.
Mostly the handlebars/hands though.

>>53852984
That does look bad. Not Yan Lo's beard bad, but still really annoying.

One nice thing about the gw's fugly 'heroic' models. They go together easy.

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>>53854320
It's the sheer number of tiny contact points that must line up or it will look shit.
That's what winds me up.

You're right, it almost makes me miss building Dwarf Clansmen.
That had a certain Zen relaxation quality to it.
This does not.

What point level do people play at?

I'm having trouble trying to squeeze everything I want in a 30 point game.

>>53788710

Cnc por favor.

50 SS Gremlins Crew
Ulix + 7 Pool
- Husbandry (3)
- Dirty Cheater (1)
Penelope (2)
Old Major (9)
- Corn Husks (2)
The Sow (8)
Wild Boar (6)
Wild Boar (6)
Slop Hauler (5)
Slop Hauler (5)

(exported from CrewFaux)

With 3 Piglets and a War Pig for summons.

>>53855673
50 is the usual.
30 is smaller than something like half the starter boxes.

Do any official date decks have linen finish? Can you riffle shuffle them?

Related: does anyone use normal playing cards? I've found some really cool playing card decks online but I don't know how hard it would be with remembering the different suits + if people would have a problem with playing against someone using a deck with normal suits.

>>53855951

The rulebook says exactly which suits are what, so no one has a particularly good reason to be upset at your using a normal card deck. Just bring a sheet of paper noting what's what, if you have any memorization issues.

>>53855902
I might drop one or both wild boars for stuffed pigs, cheap activation control.

>>53855951
I've seen some pretty epic custom decks. It doesn't really matter, any deck should be fine.

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>>53855673
Yup, 50ss is the balance point it is designed to play at.
I struggle to fit everythign I want in at 50.

>>53855902
Like the other guy said, maybe drop one of the Wild Boar unless you have a specific plan for them. Not even necessarily for Stuffed Piglets (because they are bullshit), for normal Piglets.

>>53855951
>>53856554
I think the tournament decks specify fate decks, which I assume is intended to mean "with R/T/C/M not H/C/S/D".

As with all things, depends on the TO's autism.

>>53851780
Its not about being a dick to my opponent, it's about playing a game that's not just move, shoot, assault. I was fascinated by the concept of suing enemy units, then I read Lucius' entry on 1d4chan and thought he sounded like a lot of fun.

I've played enough 40k and MTG just isn't my thing at all (played it for the first two years it came out, then walked away).

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>>53857729
That's 60% of all models in the game, and 99% of Masters.
Even the boring straightforward Masters have significant supoort elements and/or other shenanigans.

If you want to play a crew that does interesting things besides killing stuff, throw a rock at the store shelf and buy the crew you hit.

Do you have a better idea of what kind of shenanigan you would enjoy?

Lucius, as you know, orders people around and 'inspires' them to perform better.

Nicodem or Molly summon new undead monsters to join the fight.

Shenlong uses many different styles of not-kung-fu to use fire, poison and the like to make him and his fellow monks harder/better/faster, far more mobile and able to run around doing deeds.

Dr Doug McMourning uses poison to invigorate his allies, making them more efficient in his schemes, and murder his enemies, turning them into Frankenstein-like monsters.

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What masters are better to use versus new players in the first couple of games? Not "for a new player", but "against one".

The goal is to make the game as interesting as possible, of course. So this, probably, excludes couple of types. For example, I'd avoid summoners - from a new player's perspective it can be seen as an extremely strong option (especially, considering that in many other games summoning over "points-limit" not as widely presented). Or control-focused masters. Or masters whose gameplay can be too confusing for a new player. Things like that.

I think, Lady J and Von Schill are obvious options to place on the table versus new player. But is there anything else?

>>53859240
Don't do summoners or nukers. Lady J or Misaki aren't particularly difficult to counter but if you play them seriously to any degree you'll wipe your opponent off the map. Better would be a Brawler like Mei Feng or Yan Lo who tend to tie models up but doesn't have that "Where'd my model go" feel. Or a support master with a team dedicated to scheming. Anything that doesn't either swarm the field with your units or deletes theirs left right and center.

Did you guys get anything for free RPG day? I got a free translucent mindless zombie and a translucent Bete Noire.

How do you play against Reva again? I don't want to resort to taking Asami every time someone declares Ressurectionists, but it is going that way. Is there a simple answer or do I just get good?

>>53857982
Thanks for the help so far.

Having played a lot of Necromunda and Mordheim, my usual playstyle is 'Suppress/Overwatch and flank/assault with forward elements'. So I like to lock down enemy mobility and gang up on enemy strongpoints. I'm ex-military and was a small-unit tactics instructor, so this playstyle is pretty instinctive for me.

I'm looking for something that's completely different to this playstyle, something with lots of
tricks and the ability to interfere with other player's battleplans. So not necessarily making me play brilliantly, more like stopping my opponent from doing the things she or he wants to do.

>>53861301
You might dig pure support masters like Lucius, Collette, Brewmaster and Zorida.

You just have to remember you're playing for points not too kill.

>>53862126
Yeah, I'm getting bored of pure-kill type games, it's why I'm looking at Malifaux. Lucius is one I'm looking at heavily (see earlier in thread) but willalso look up the others too.

New thread

>>53863536

>>53863536

>>53863536