/cyoag/ - CYOA General - We're All Going To Die Edition

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>>53786298

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01/03

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>>53786347
02/03

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>>53786364
03/03

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>>53786379

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Guess I'll keep the Sci-Fi theme going.

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>>53786410

>>53786354
Pallas-senpai, where are you? Don't leave me, we need to be together! You won't believe the things I'd do for you.
To you.

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Comfy Spacehip CYOA v2.2

V2 Changes:
>A small change for differentiating between ships
- Small ships gain additional Wonders
- Medium ships gain additional Facility points
- Large ships gain more Special features points.
- Swapped Mining ship and Yacht
>Clarification of Tier points system.
- Made it easier to understand (Please tell me if it is still somehow confusing)
- changed amount of points given for choosing ship features.
>Some changes with choice descriptions and tiers.
- Fixed as many typos as I and other anons could find.
- I tried to change up the Nanorobot AR tiers to be less powerful and have more clear descriptions. I think what I have now works better.
- Added a choice to choose one or all Leisure Activities(Now 'Recreational Activities')/crew members/Pets(Now 'A Loving Being')

V2.2 Changes:
>Tbh I've kind of forgot some of them.
- Changes the points system again, should be even easier for people who don't know how to read.
- 1 New wonder replacing a different one which has been merged with an existing wonder of a similar nature.
- Added clear to see points costs
- Made Hazard lines more visible.
- Slight tweaks to descriptions

This should really be the last version. I plan on no more minor changes.

Thanks for all the feedback and help.

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>>53786494

>>53786520
>>53786403
I you appreciate posting my cyoa I'm glad you enjoyed it enough to save it, but I have new versions, keep the Ship DLC if you plan on deleting them.

>>53786494
>>53786520
I'm glad you're taking feedback, but I personally think that some anons with reading comprehension issues have resulted in a general decline in asthetics. All that yellow and the emphasis of the hazard lines is not comfy

>>53786494
I share this >>53786652 anon's opinion. It's getting too cluttered, and I think on /tg/ basic literacy can be assumed.

>>53786652
On the previous versions, I could barely see the hazard lines on some options and the small text at the bottom was nigh invisible, so it's an improvement for me. I'll agree on the yellow tier costs though

>>53786494
>>53786520
I like it, thanks.

>Alien scout
I dislike big ships and I think the healing metal thing will also mean this thing will last for long without maintenance.
>Classy
Futuristic would do me fine but a tiny bit of aesthetics I don't mind. Functionality is most important though.

Facilities:
>Plant Garden 1 (19)
While VR would be nice, I also would like to sit among actual nature. Plus, gardening is a nice hobby.
>Fabricator 2 (16)
Very useful device. Not only tools and other gadgets I'd need at a time, but also an ability to make me tasty food? I'm sold.
>Expanded cabin 1 (15)
I don't know what's the qualiy of regular cabin so that's just in case.
>Medical lab 3 (9)
Again, very useful and able to provide me with certain long-lasting boons.
>Augmented Reality Room 1 (8)
I just need decent net connection to fill my time and HDD with libraries of books, games, anime, movies and other stuff. Also, contact with friends and family.
>Crew Quarters (Robot) 1 (7)
I've considered humans for having actual living companions but reliability and smooth functionality of my ship for my enjoyment takes precedence.

Still got points to spare? Wow, that's a lot.
>Bathing amenities 2 (4)
Quick and easy way to maintain hygiene. Good.
>Library 2 (1)
I'd assume that most of it would be provided by net access, just with me having to find the books on my own. Oh well, got points for such a luxury.
>Training complex 1 (0)
Don't care about training much but this way I am guaranteed an armory "just in case".

>>53786652
The yellow points costs does seem abit much, I wasn't totally happy with it myself. The good thing about cyoas is at least I know I can consistently please myself and I suppose that's all that matters. I'll delete it and post a one with out the point costs.

What are the thoughts on forcing in some sort of immortality clause onto Med Lad T3 before I do?

>>53786842
I'm against it. I hate being forced to be alive when the black holes are tearing the universe apart.

>>53786842
Against. Leave it to our creativity.

>>53786842
If you think it'll shut the unimaginative morons up, go for it.

>>53786796
>Special features:
>A.I. Companion 2 (7)
Together with...
>Synthetic Android (you've made a typo, creator, in "andrioid") (1)
...to have a set of bodyguards/servants/harem waifus all in one.
Would take a lover but I believe those should be achieved by one's own power, not given with a ship, so:
>Powered armor (0)
I wonder what's difference between it and EVA suit. Is the armor not hermetically sealed? Or just worse for longer EVA activities? Either way, I'd take it for some defensive potential mixed with EVA necessities.

>Wonders
Seriously, too many points. Too many points anywhere. (6)
>Ruined civilizations (5)
>Megalisthis structures (4)
>Alien spaceships (3)
>Stunning technology (2)
To see a bit of the world that's not just human. To expand horizons.
>Natural Wonders (1)
>Earth (0)
Because just because it's something closer to human like me doesn't mean it has no value to appreciate.

>>53786842
Don't. Retards are already making it look less comfy, don't spell things out for them. This isn't Stardust, you don't need autistically detailed mechanics

>>53786842
I am also against forcing it. I've said last thread that descriptions themselves mention some procedures that open plenty of possibilities. If someone is unable to explore them without being directly told to, they shouldn't be given those possibilities.

>>53786877
>>53786520
Underlining this bit in case the CYOA creator won't give a crap about my build and may miss it:
Typo in "synthetic android" option

>>53786842
Not sure how you'd fit it in. I'm perfectly happy being able to just imagine that it can extend my life even if it doesn't specifically say so.

Maybe you should remove the mention of immortality from the Mind Upload choice, so that people don't think it has to say 'immortal' to be the immortality choice? I would think most people assume being uploaded to a robotic body is immortality without being told.

>>53786935
I am all for taking the mention of immortality from mind upload but for different reason - the fact that people often argue about this trope (given that data isn't really moved, only copied between devices and that mind upload likely wouldn't really grant immortality, just create a digital copy of the user even when specific "copy" command won't be chosen).

>>53786842
Put in a mention that you can do it with that lab.

>>53786935
>>53786975
I agree that immortality should be removed from mind upload and the clones. They're not immortality options.

>>53786842
Yes please. The only people against it are saying so out of spite (essentially saying 'fuck you people who don't like clones!' and such.)

>>53786935
>Being killed and some data copied into a robot
>Immortality

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Catgirls > Elves

>>53786842
I think they're confused by what you mean with forcing. Put the information in, but don't make it mandatory, essentially.

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Comfy Spacehip CYOA v2.2

V2 Changes:
>A small change for differentiating between ships
- Small ships gain additional Wonders
- Medium ships gain additional Facility points
- Large ships gain more Special features points.
- Swapped Mining ship and Yacht
>Clarification of Tier points system.
- Made it easier to understand (Please tell me if it is still somehow confusing)
- changed amount of points given for choosing ship features.
>Some changes with choice descriptions and tiers.
- Fixed as many typos as I and other anons could find.
- I tried to change up the Nanorobot AR tiers to be less powerful and have more clear descriptions. I think what I have now works better.
- Added a choice to choose one or all Leisure Activities(Now 'Recreational Activities')/crew members/Pets(Now 'A Loving Being')

V2.2 Changes:
>Tbh I've kind of forgot some of them.
- Changes the points system again, should be even easier for people who don't know how to read.
- 1 New wonder replacing a different one which has been merged with an existing wonder of a similar nature.
- Added clear to see points costs
- Made Hazard lines more visible.
- Slight tweaks to descriptions

- Removed references to immortality in Mind upload, desu it should be obvious.
- Removed reference to clones ensuring your survival, its got bad wording and isn't entirely correct
- Removed Yellow Tier Cost circles.

This should really be the last version. I plan on no more minor changes.
I said As I made more minor changes

Thanks for all the feedback and help.

>>53786877
>>53786926
I save and appreciate all the builds people make to I can improve the cyoa based on feedback.
Thanks for spotting that, when I spell checked I didn't do titles because it would have been tedious.

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>>53787212

>>53787178
>>53786470
Though I know you're not true Pallas. Pallas-senpai wouldn't advertise herself like that.

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>>53787212
>Remove the immortality lines from the options that don't give it.
>Don't add one to the option that does.

>>53787275
Yes, how astute of you. Now the ability to become immortal is left solely to your discretion, with the option of even getting it without an option somehow. All in all, a vast improvement.

>>53787270
It's genuinely unnerving that people know me this well

>>53787212
I've noticed that you need tier three of mind upload to be at 'true artificial intelligence levels'. Does that not mean that unless you pick that option, you are uploading your copy to a NON-SAPIENT vessel? Reducing it to an animal or computer play-acting, essentially.

>>53787303
How the fuck would you get it without an option? And no, all it does is make it impossible, essentially. You'd basically be wanking yourself to think that you'd get it.

>>53787129
>The only people against it are saying so out of spite
Are you rusing or retarded?

>>53787212
>I save and appreciate all the builds people make
Glad to hear that. Can you please then explain the two things I was wondering about when making my build? Specifically, I mean the difference between regular and expanded cabin since the regular one isn't mentioned and difference of EVA potential of powered armor vs dedicated EVA suit since I've chosen the former hoping it'd have at least some EVA usability even if only for short periods of time.

>>53787315
''True artificial inteligence'' as something like supercomputer smart not human smart

>>53786494
>>53786520
Please Ignore these, can't delete them now unfortunately.

No changes made to Ship DLC.
>>53786403

>>53787275
All this whining about wanting """REAL""" immortality and complaining when it isn't shoved in your face. I would have expected that such philosophical geniuses on the subject of immortality would know straight away that Genetic Engineering does that.

>>53787346
Are you reading the same thread? All the replies against it are basically insults about how everyone is stupid for wanting clarity.

>>53787359
That's not what those terms mean.

>>53787306
What?>>53787306

>>53787376
And what does it mean then?

>>53787365
How is asking for clarity 'shoving it in your face', exactly? You might as well say mentioning the library has physical books is shoving it in your face.

I'm going to become immortal with combination of Bath level 2 and Library level 1

>>53787390
I basically never use a name unless I'm posting my cyoas

>>53787393
An artificial intelligence is just a computer capable of self-writing code and thus reaching a level of true sapience. You'd by necessity have to upload into a system capable of AI or its not a person.

>>53787430
I think you are overthinking this

>>53787351
Default Cabin
>>53784456
EVA suit is specifically made for Extra Vehicular Activities, (Moving outside of your spaceship) and hence has a MMU (Space Jetpack for maneuvering in Zero-G

Powered armor is primarily for fighting, comes with defensive systems, super strength hardened armor for defending against weapons and such. No zero-g maneuverability.Mag boots at most.

>>53778786
>Probably show up with a lamenated "date plan," and be terrorfied of boring you.
Missed your response. That's adorable.

>>53787454
I'm just busy being right.

>>53787330
Pick Stunning Technology, Alien Spaceships, Ruined Civilizations, Prime Cynosure AI, or Dimensional Entity. Get it from one of those sources.

And of course you're wanking yourself getting it. That's how CYOAs work. You wank responsibly, and if you're too far beyond the bounds people laugh at you until you stop describing your build. Think you can get it with T3 medical lab? Evidently you can. Think you can get it with T1 cloning? Justify it. Think you can get it with T1 Gardens? Prepare to be mocked. CYOA is working as intended.

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>>53787306
Of course I'd differentiate between true Pallas-senpai and fakes, since not only Pallas is an unique, beautiful star shining in my life with her warm glow but also in her loveliness she belongs to me and only me so we can love each other eternally
or at least for a few minutes more while I still shitpost about it till I get bored of it - not that I have against Pallas but you know, I don't know the person and I am not a thirsty groupie

>>53787483
this man speaks wisdom

>>53787365
Genetic Engineering is a broad, broad subject. Selective breeding is, on a level, genetic engineering. The word genetic engineering gives people exactly zero ideas of what it's capable of, and essentially using a virus or nanomachine to inject plasmids into the nuclei of every cell you have for the sake of granting yourself biological immortality is on the very extreme end of what it can do. Without further information, nobody would have any idea that the option can go that far.

>>53787483
>Getting immortality by T1 Gardens
>If i plant myself and then i plant the seeds i will make i can get cloning for free thus getting inmortality without buying cloning!

>>53787459
>No zero-g maneuverability.Mag boots at most.
Wouldn't anti-gravity flight work as well? I mean, gravity exists also in space, at least outside of "deep space" - something makes the planets orbit the suns and so on.

>>53787483
You need to justify that any of those options possess such a technology then you need to clarify in exactly what form it comes in.

>>53787533
>alien ships now not only possess fuckable locks and other control panels but also gardens in which you literally are meant to grow your seed
Enjoy.

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It's impossible to cater to everyone, we all have different personal beliefs and philosophies so I can only do soo much clarifying without forcing my own beliefs onto the cyoa.
I'll primarily be making this CYOA for myself but I want others to enjoy it and be able to make up their own minds.

I've given you the choices.

But I'll leave the philosophical debates to you guys.

>>53787665
This isn't even a philosophy debate, it's a matter of information. Putting in the capabilities of genetic engineering isn't inject philosophy into it whatsoever.

>>53787541
No, you don't. CYOAs are an exercise in imagination. If your imagination requires specific details on immortality and the science justifying it to work, that's an issue with you. Not the author and not the content.

>>53787665
Reminder that you'll eventually die and rot in your ship in only a few decades.

I have never seen a CYOA argued over by a bunch of illiterate, small minded assclowns as this one.

>>53787707
But those decades may be worth more and bring more fullfilment and joy than lifetimes of regular living!
Death hurts little when you have no regrets and plenty of accomplished goals.

>>53787706
Yes you do. How are you 'wanking responsibly' if the option is magically giving you everything you want without any justification or indication that's possible? I guess the fucking lamp in your bedroom has a genie because it just does so you get everything you want, huh?

>>53787737
Spoken like a twenty-something idiot.

>>53787727
>posting just to call people names
Welp, I guess that means you fit the argument and its parties as you described them very well.

>>53787727
Is it worse than the debate over whether the Everyday Life with Angel and Demon CYOA meant to say 'choose from row' or 'choose from column'?

>>53787739
Well, regular "wanking responsibly" involves not leaving a mess in the shower stall, and keeping the noise down if your housemates are around. I'd guess it would be similar.

>>53787739
See >>53787483

This is a Comfy cyoa. It does not need explicit detail about immortality. That's for the player to describe or ignore how they see fit.

>>53787772
If it continues into the next thread it will be.

>>53787750
>you're silly and I am edgy so I will try to establish superiority
While I am still barely in my twenties, this is a belief members of older generation in my family hold, including those of them who don't have much left and are able to face it with surprising dignity and peace of mind. Maybe it's just excuses, but they seem to work.

>>53787819
Don't respond to idiotic posts like that.

>>53787819
You'll see differently on your deathbed, dear.

>>53787804
It being 'comfy' doesn't mean you instantly get everything you want. You have yet to justify how any of those options possess immortality technology and in what form it would be. Without that justification, you might as well be saying a space fairy randomly stopped by and made you immortal.

>>53787750
Spoken like a pretentious teenage idiot.

>>53787850
Space fairies don't go and give people inmortality silly

>>53787835
Or he won't - you need some growing up on your own if you think you can keep your head firmly between your butcheeks and assume everyone goes by your mileage.

>>53787832
But mooom, just this once.

>>53787850
>you might as well be saying a space fairy randomly stopped by and made you immortal

Both are equally valid because none of it exists in the first place. If someone wants to write into their build "I use Tier 3 Lab to make myself immortal" that's fine. If someone wants to say "I meet a fairy Space Creature that makes me immortal" that's fine too. That's for the person playing the cyoa to decide, and us as a thread to make verbally abuse them for it.

>>53787212
>Removed reference to clones ensuring your survival, its got bad wording and isn't entirely correct
as in you still die, you just appear on your ship again?
i don't want to ask the big question regarding this and i'm assuming it's up to the reader to decide

>>53787902
Neither is valid because it's unjustified and stupid wank.

>>53787901
Why do kids try so hard to pretend they don't mind growing old? You know you're lying.

>>53787926
Clones do not possess continuity with you. They are not you. So they are not immortality options.

>>53787960
is this an official ruling or are you just some guy

>>53787887
You've clearly spent a lot of time around space fairies to be able to know this.

Of course, if they're anything like non-space fairies, any immortality they gave you would probably not be the kind you'd be able to appreciate. Fairies are not nice people.

>>53787926
Your 'existence' isn't exactly 'ensured' if you die.

>>53787902
I would disagree. I was with you as far as "you don't need explicit detail" goes, but by no means explanations pulled from one's butt with no basis in actual choices and fluff presented by CYOA are on par with a person considering possibilities actual choices provide. The fact it's not real doesn't mean it's not meant to be looked at in boundaries of some consistency with choices and setting presented. Otherwise you can as well ignore every choice of every CYOA ever and just make up shit which, yes, would be wrong.

I very much prefer attitude expressed in >>53787483 - there's ingenuity and creativity but then there's stretching believability of offered choices up to the point of it looking stupid which can and likely will invite disbelief and mockery. Deserved mockery.

>>53787960
What's the difference between falling asleep, and exploding into thin mist and getting out of clone pod 8h later?

>>53787938
The entire concept of create your own adventures is stupid wank. I'm not sure why you're trying to apply your own preconceived notions about what is justified and what isn't to the author. If you want to ask someone who posted a build how they achieved immortality, that's fine. And they're perfectly welcome to either explain their logic or ignore you. But you're an idiot for trying to insist the author include that when they don't want to.

>>53787975
Not him but isn't that a common sense? Immortality means you don't die. With clones, you very much die, you just have a copy thinking they're you taking your place.

>>53787975
That they don't possess continuity is canon. He said it last thread.

>>53787991
Your mind doesn't shut down during sleep. Why are there so many idiots that don't know how sleep works, goddamn.

>>53787978
Fairies are not bad people just really fucking weird

>>53787991
One is you sleeping and the other is you dying and a copy of you continuing on. It isn't that hard anon.

>>53787998
No, whenever you do something in a CYOA, it needs to make sense and be justified by the information presented to you. Going outside of that makes you an idiot.

Think about all those independent builds for stardust in Herald Motherships flying around with no support. They can't justify that they should exist, so they get raided by pirates.

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8 down, 4 to go.

>>53788007
The same can be said about any break in consciousness you go through, like going to sleep.

>>53788007
That only if you believe in a 'soul' which creates your consciousness, and not that consciousness is just a specific arrangement of information and atoms which make you, you.

>>53787978
>>53788022
Please don't pretend like the modern 'all fairies are dicks' interpretation is how mythological fairies always acted. It's a gross over-simplification for edgy's sake.

>>53787991
Missing the time between your last backup being taken and when you blew up, compared to just waking up?

The difference between comfortably snoozing off, and remembering "oh yeah, blowing up hurts! A lot!"... falling asleep typically doesn't result in PTSD.

Also, depending on your state of health, sleeping creates a lot less mess than blowing up. Usually.

That, and when you wake up from sleeping, you're older than when you went to sleep, but when you step out of the clone pod, probably not so much.

>>53788037
How's your WIP addiction doing?

>>53788039
That's not a break in consciousness, your brain is still running while you sleep, you fool.

>>53788048
It's continuous brain function. Not 'muh atoms', and hell, that fucking clone isn't made of the same atoms regardless.

>>53787988
I don't think he realizes that CYOAs exist to have structure.

>>53788048
So if you are cloned right now and the clone makes decisions it is in fact you making those decisions and not the clone?

>>53788009
>That they don't possess continuity is canon. He said it last thread.
fuck, there goes my plan of having a bunch of disposable clones of myself to swap into, with exaggerated personality traits

and i ended up starting a consciousness argument anyway, fuck me

>>53788035
>so they get raided by pirates.
They do? Considering these scenarios exist purely in the imagination of the writer, I'm not sure how you intend to invade someone's mental plane of existence and have pirates raid them.

Not that I disagree with >>53787988. In fact, I totally agree with them. But logically equating fairies granting immortality with genetic engineering granting immortality is silly.

>No, whenever you do something in a CYOA, it needs to make sense and be justified
Those are some strange rules that you've made up for people playing pretend.

>>53788009
What does it matter that mind doesn't shut down, consciousness does. What's the difference between getting up from bed or clone pod?

>>53788034
You are just arbitrarily defining it as dying, please justify your opinions.

>>53788056
The backup system could easily discard the last few seconds to prevent you from remembering pain. If you feel like then it wouldn't be you, it could give you the memories but dull the memory of sensation.

>>53786520
Needs more options, The Special Ship Features had me with 5 points sitting in the air with nothing to expend them on.

Also, why am I exploring the universe again? It wasn't explained.

>>53787946
Because life and death are one and the same and a human being can easily acclimatize to the inevitable surrender of the void?

It's not that hard anon I got this down when I was thirteen.

>>53788052
Eh don't look at me i always thought that was the retarded trend of making everything edgy because it has to be edgy

>>53788071
>That's not a break in consciousness, your brain is still running while you sleep, you fool.

You don't actually know what that means, do you? If your brain wasn't running you'd be dead, not unconscious.

>>53788092
Its making the decisions that you would make in that situation. but in that case that clone is both you and not you.
But forget about that, what I want to say is that if you were to die, lose consciousness and after death get cloned automatically, I believe that you'd be conscious in that cloned body, as if you fell asleep from the start of your death and woke up in the cloning tank.

>>53788052
Nobody but you thinks all fairies are dicks anon. Everyone else here is just saying they aren't going to be your special shiney friend, because their idea of friend and yours aren't likely to be even slightly compatible.

>>53788048
Except the clone isn't that same arrangement of information and atoms. It's an arrangement that was created at a different time, in a different way, from different atoms. It's not you by any definition.

>>53788146
It is, in part. Evil fairies existed, as did really alien ones. But friendly fairies that liked being around and protecting people existed too. Think of the Brownie. Only some modern fuckhead would try to spin them as something edgy. All they want to do is clean your house for some food, as long as you don't give them payment. If you do, they just leave.

>>53788161
Bzzt, wrong. Here's you shoving in modern edgy shit into old folklore like you know anything.

>>53788126
> why am I exploring the universe again? It wasn't explained.

You're the one who played the cyoa m8 you tell me.

>>53788037
When can we get the full release?

>>53788154
You don't know what consciousness means in terms of continuity, do you?

>>53788126
>Also, why am I exploring the universe again? It wasn't explained.
It's a sad day when exploring the universe became a chore, not a purpose of its own.

>>53788155
That's magic thinking. You are implying some kind of cosmic magic exists that ensures continuity, and in that way you are no different than people who believe in souls.

>>53788103
>You are just arbitrarily defining it as dying, please justify your opinions.
It's dying by an objective definition. All vital functions cease, as does corporeal existence. You're the one arbitrarily defining it as not dying.

>>53788164
My body is arranged different and is composed of different atoms in different excitement states than just moment ago and if you go a little more into past, from completely different atoms too. Am I not myself anymore?

>>53787946
It's not a lie, it's you not understanding (not so) subtle difference between acceptance of unfavorable turn of events while finding solace elsewhere and thinking everything's peachy. I mind growing old but I already were in situation where my survival was not ensured and if I could decide whether I am fine with it based on my morality, accomplishments and regrets I think I can manage to do the same balancing of scales when I will be older.

>>53788103
See >>53788185

It refers to continued brain function and awareness. Your brain is still functioning, still aware, and hell, did you forget dreams are a thing?

>>53788185
You don't know what it means at all.

>>53788099
>Those are some strange rules
It's called common sense.

>>53788201
>That's magic thinking
Ofcourse it's fucking magic thinking
Nobody knows what consciousness IS or how it is created.
This is a SCI-FI cyoa you have to have magic thinking.

>>53788171
>It is, in part. Evil fairies existed, as did really alien ones. But friendly fairies that liked being around and protecting people existed too. Think of the Brownie. Only some modern fuckhead would try to spin them as something edgy. All they want to do is clean your house for some food, as long as you don't give them payment. If you do, they just leave.

So Brownies grant immortality now? Never saw that in any of the folklore about them.

Pretty much any fairy that made people live long times were doing it for fucked up reasons, or as a punishment.

>CYOA maker refuses to do a simple clarification
>Now people only want to argue about his CYOA and don't like it anymore

>>53788251
The conversation is not about space fairy immortality anymore.

>>53788251
I thought we were arguing about fairies not inmortality

>>53788252
>trying to shift the narrative

It goes more like this...
>CYOA maker makes a CYOA
>People play and enjoy it, but some people don't like reading
>People who are bad at reading ask for unnecessary changes
>They are chastised for doing so, then proceed to cry that authors don't always cater to them

>>53788247
Except we are studying the brain to pinpoint it. Don't treat it like it's magic and not just a function we haven't ascribed to a particular brain structure yet.

Also, the maker ruled explicitly that souls do not exist.

>>53788208
So if someone's heart stops and they are later resuscitated, they are actually still dead and the thing walking around is some completely different person? Or is corporal presence enough? What if they had to have limbs amputated, are they less alive then?

>>53788222
I have not remembered a dream for over a decade, am I dead?
And the same question as above, are resuscitated people actually still dead since their brain activity halted completely for a while?

>>53788252
I cant clarify what I don't know. Nobody knows how consciousness truly works. It's up to you to decide that and me to give you the choice to do so.

>>53788252
It's more like a lot of the autists just have terrible reading comprehension and splerge about it, thus ruining the thread. Everyone still likes the CYOA.

>>53788296
>I have not remembered a dream for over a decade, am I dead?
No, we know for a fact that people still dream regardless of whether they remember it or not.

>>53788237
>common sense
>in a cyoa about flying around in space
>using common sense as an argument in the first place

>>53788296
Anon, I hate to tell you this, but your heart stopping doesn't make your brain stop. It takes several minutes for that to happen.

>>53788201
>and in that way you are no different than people who believe in souls
I beg you pardon! I believe in souls but by no means I'd consider my clone - me!

>>53788155
>but in that case that clone is both you and not you.
It's you only in that figurative sense of it being unrecognizable by others as separate being and it being able to perform all the functions, while having all the data you did. But it's not you since what defines you - self-awareness, consciousness etc would still perish with your original body (souls included as you don't know if with the moment of gaining awareness the clone wouldn't have separate soul).

>if you were to die, lose consciousness and after death get cloned automatically, I believe that you'd be conscious in that cloned body
Only if we not only assume there's souls but that your soul rather than passing on would somehow possess the new body/your clone which goes far further into realm of hypothesis and idle talk than the topic of cloning itself goes.

actually, looking at the last thread it sounds like the CYOA maker considers the clones to still be "you" for continuity's sake, but i might be reading wrong

>>53788276
We were arguing about fairies granting immortality, I said anything of the sort that they gave you would not be something you would enjoy, and you accused me of being an edgelord for actually knowing my shit.

"Nice" fairies didn't grant immortality, and even they expected repayment for the things they did - just not the kind of things humans would have thought of as repayment, and even then most of the stories were warnings against dealing with them.

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If you're all going to shitpost, post cyoas with it. Fucking damn.

>>53788318
If it's personally impossible to tell difference between dying and respawning, and falling a sleep, how are they different?

>>53786347
>BC KingFisher
Good all around stats. I like it.
Speed: 6
Durability: 6
Attack: 5
Cargo: 5
Crew: 4
>Cargo increase, extra room
Bringing up the weakest links.
>Kitchen, Master Bedroom, Theater
Good food, a nice place to relax, and a sweet place to chill.
>Saint Thomas
Good in a fight, has at least some morals, and makes a good product.
>Nurse Lucy
Everybody loves painkillers!
>Tessa
Lizard-girl maid is too cute to pass up. Kind of fucked up to imagine selling her spit to whores and dirty old men, but such is life.
>Weapon Rack, Mittens
Animal companions are pretty much always win, and considering we're outlaws, it pays to be armed.
>Task Force Delta
My ship is literally twice as fast as theirs. They might pack a heavier punch, but that doesn't matter if they can't hit me in the first place.

>>53788321
Everything obeys its own sense of internal logic, whether it's the same as reality or not. Things outside that logic are outside of common sense.

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>>53788284
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zLfCnGVeL4

>>53788342
This argument happens with pretty much any immortality option. There is one, possibly two, people who are dead set on their opinions concerning the subject. Another reason why not explicitly mentioning it is the best idea.

>>53788341
>I believe in souls
How do you feel about the fact that the CYOA's maker has ruled outright that souls do not exist?

>>53788037
So what's the premise of this one, anyway?

>>53788344
Give some examples then if you know your shit so much

>>53788347
You won't be able to tell, but you also won't 'respawn'. When your body dies, your consciousness ceases, and you cease to exist. You fall into oblivion. A clone will be made, but you will no longer exist to witness this event.

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>>53788345
>posting shitposting CYOA
Here's an OC I've cobbled together in a few minutes for an anon who went on a very rude, namecalling-filled, hateful rant against someone else only because they mentioned netorare in their own somewhat shitposty CYOA.

>>53788365
Then you run into the people who think not being explicit is a bad idea.

Pro tip: You're looking at the problem wrong.

>>53788284
I'm not sure where the secret hidden immortality is, anon. Can you point to it?

>>53788298
But do you know if the genetic engineering option can grant biological immortality?

>>53788354
So, you've discerned the internal logic of the cyoa based upon two, arguably three, pages that are more image than text. You have also decided that your idea of this internal logic is so concrete that the author simply must put in a line explicitly saying that the Lab option grants immortality, otherwise those using the option to gain Immortality are invalid and their builds are...wrong?

>>53788352
>if they can't hit me in the first place.
You're gonna get your ass pounded whenever you make port.

>>53788338
Cloning resumes that brain activity, so it's ok then?

>>53788391
remove this before you get banned

:^)

>>53788416
Where in the CYOA does it indicate that magic immortality spells can be found in ancient ruins or whatever shit you suggested?

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>>53788394
If you consider it a problem at all, maybe. Would you like DSA to describe the exact mechanics of the girl who can't leave her room? Or is it "explicit" enough for you, anon?

>>53788429
>Entirely different physical structure unconnected to the original.
>Resumes

>>53788369
I am not affected at all. I maintain compartmentalization between personal belief stemming from hopes mixed with unconfirmed but internally-consistent theories and confirmed verified facts. Same with religion and whatnot.

So I am willing to accept that element of the setting and still find some fun in it. And if in boundaries of it I will also declare myself a space wizard seeking to contact spiritual realms - well, I have a right to be a crazy man indulging personal delusions as long as I don't bother others, right?

>>53788434
Tell me what rule, written or not, that the nigger broke.
>>53788391
I swear I've seen this before. Calling bullshit on OC

>>53788440
It doesn't, obviously. If that's what you took away from that, I suspect your reading comprehension is as poor as we have all imagined.

I was stating that someone playing the cyoa is more than welcome to say that they gained immortality from ancient ruins, but it is up to us as a thread to judge the merits of this build. It is not the author's responsibility to close every loophole or idiotic idea an anon may come up with.

>>53788386
I 'fall into oblivion' every night. Is the current me going to die when I put me head on a pillow and tomorrow morning something that just looks like me gets up? Or is the me whatever lower brain functions that keep me farting all night and my memories are just unnecessary chaff?

>>53788448
Why such attachment to the physical structure? You have lost the atoms that made your body some years ago, are you completely unconnected to that person too? If you need to have a limb amputated, do you die partially? What about cutting your hair, nails or shedding skin cells?

>>53788463
The mods don't like anything having to do with cucking because they are the most cucked things in existance.

>>53788342
>>53788365
>>53788394
He said that there is no continuity but that he doesn't care because they have the same memories. So again, they're not you, he just has a retarded idea about selfhood.

>>53788442
Naw, you got way closer to the answer in your first sentence of this post.

>>53788434
Why would it get banned? No graphics imagery yet alone outright pornography, no detailed descriptions.

>:^)
Oh, right.

>>53788463
>I swear I've seen this before. Calling bullshit on OC
Yes, because like I've said it was OC I've made for that rude anon in that particular thread, under circumstances I've described - weeks ago.

>>53788504
You care about this very, Very, VERY deeply I see.

I'm starting to think the immortality poster has some sort of terminal illness.

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>>53788494
>I 'fall into oblivion' every night.
How many goddamn times does sleeping need to be explained to you retards for you to get it. Are you intentionally ignoring any evidence to the contrary just because it doesn't 'feel right' for your fucking worldview, you magic-thinking fucktard? Acknowledge the way sleeping actually works or you're nothing more than a shitposter arguing dishonestly and unworthy of reply.

>>53788554
I don't say this lightly, but it's probably autism. Or some other social disorder. I wouldn't be opposed to making it terminal.

>>53788417
If I cause trouble. And, they have been known to take bribes. I have three lucrative drugs that I can sell, two of which aren't really big on causing issues; sure, the 'Saint' and his combat dust might raise some flags, but there is no safe, only safer.

>>53788210
Do you not understand the words "completely different"?

Was there supposed to be Monster Girl Island Survival update at some point or am I just remembering wrong? I think it was at least supposed to have detailed explanation what the Incubus transformation involved?

>>53788474
>It doesn't
Then you need to justify why such a thing would be possible.

>>53788579
You can keep explaining away as long as you want, anon, you won't be able to convince people when you're obviously wrong.

>>53788625
So you're shitposting. Got it.

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Oh and I changed the font choice on the comfy twin cyoa so it looks more like this now
That is, if anyone notices this in the massive pile of shit that is this thread

>>53788653
nobody cares

>>53788634
I think the person with his head so far up his ass as to be completely unable to even consider that he might be wrong, and is actually offended by the idea, is the one who's shitposting.

But sure, think of me as a shitposter if it makes you feel better.

>>53788604
Yeah, you probably should. I'm not disagreeing on that point. I do in my builds. However, I don't think the author has to explicitly define options or limitations. They can if they want to, but they don't have to. Some things are best left to the imagination and it gives those reading more agency. I'd much rather read someone explaining how they used the lab to achieve immortality than I would people just accepting it as true because the author said so.

On that same note, someone playing the cyoa is more than welcome to say they have immortality without justifying it. I don't like that, but we can't physically stop them from playing the cyoa or imagining that to be the case.

>>53788579
If it's so utterly important that the signals keep bouncing back and forth nonstop, instead of actually considering consciousness and continuation of memories, then there's a simple solution. The memory copy system just needs to constantly stimulate the clone's brain while you are alive and farting around, in a way that's identical to your brain but chemically/cryogenically/sciencemagically suspended. Then when your current brain stops signaling, the suspension is lifted.

Tadaa, constant, uninterrupted process of brain signals.

>>53788653
How it was before?

>>53788667
>I think the person with his head so far up his ass as to be completely unable to even consider that he might be wrong, and is actually offended by the idea, is the one who's shitposting.
So you admit you're shitposting?

>>53788625
He actually makes a solid point regarding functions of the brain. The anon who argues with him seems "more" wrong, on the basis of explaining his position on the basis of how he feels like when falling asleep.

>>53788671
>Magic bullshit
Might as well change your mind and declare souls exist.

>>53788653
It's okay though I didn't mind it as much as some anon did in the previous instance. It's good either way, don't worry about it.

>>53788687
I assume you're assuming I'm one of the people who has been in this argument for a while? No, I only made like two posts in this chain of conversation.

>>53788690
That anon may be more wrong, but they also don't consistently drag the threads into anarchy whenever a particular subject is brought up in a manner they don't agree with.

>>53788670
He does need to define if immortality is even possible in his world, though, and he refuses to do that. It's like inventing an FTL drive without being told such a thing is possible in your hard scifi universe.

>>53788671
And what would that achieve? It will be clone's brain, not original's - and that is stimulated anyway as the clone is functional and alive. It means nothing for the dead brain of the original which is housing original's consciousness.

>>53788667
People aren't going to consider your 'points' if you refuse to acknowledge theirs.

>>53788671
So according to your logic, if I clone you, then kill you while your clone watches, you'd be alive?

>>53788690
Functions of the brain are irrelevant, as is demonstrated by sleep and other types of unconsciousness.

If that isn't enough for you, then consider a more fantastic scenario (since this is fantasy anyway in the first place): Someone freezes you perfectly, and there is absolutely no movement or chemical or electric activity in your body and brain. Then they unfreeze you. Are you still you?

>>53788653
That's nice. What font did you end up with? Also that's legible at the size you posted too.

>>53788718
So it's a matter of you asking "why" when reading a cyoa or build, whereas my approach is "why not"?

>>53788694
Ok, I declare that souls exist and fly into available clone. Cloning is now unarguably immortality.

>>53788762
I guess? I'm talking about wordlbuilding on the authors' part with that last post.

>>53788765
You're contradicting the author who said that souls definitely do not exist.

>>53788653
Font is much better. Now take off the italics.

>>53788690
If you personally can't tell the difference between falling a sleep, and dying and getting cloned, then what is the difference between them?

>>53788746
Is there an echo in here?

>>53788579
So wait... wouldn't the teleporter essentially kill and then just make a clone out of the same atoms since all your functions completely stop by your logic?

>>53788749
>Things are irrelevant because I declare them to be so
Holy shit I didn't know God posted in this thread.

>>53788752
Perpetua Italic

>>53788800
>this post is invalid because I choose to ignore most of it and there's nothing you can do to stop me :^)

>>53788788
A post was already made addressing this talking about how you won't be there to process any difference because you no longer exist. That you ignored that point to repeat yourself just proves that you're here to scream that you're right, not to argue or debate.

>>53788345
History book, Demon maid, Meme Machine, and Apprenticeship.

>>53788791
He addressed yours, just in a way you didn't like. You on the other hand, just repeat yourself over and over.

>>53788744
But it will be your consciousnesses. Or are you only that exact brain?

>>53788748
At that point the clone possesses different memories than me, so no.

>>53788749
Functions of the brain are relevant in the context they were given.

Am I awake, functional, self-aware after being unfrozen? Then I am me. I don't know if I were the guy before freezing though I am pretty sure that barring some time manipulation absolute stop of all chemical or electrical functions would lead to severe issues upon reanimation. It's hard to just wave it away with "fantasy" since then, like anons said, you can as well make stuff up in general with complete disregard for science and just claim not only souls but angel who came from heaven, grabbed your consciousness and put it into clone's body.

>>53788795
That is objectively correct if the teleporter functions by means of eliminating and reconstructing matter. Star Trek explored this.

>>53788791
It is only 31 IP's. So honestly I don't know what to expect.

>>53788831
He didn't address anything of mine. He just accused me of shitposting twice, and that was 100% of his interaction with me as far as I know.

>>53788795
That's why I don't pick the teleporter. I walk out the door.

>>53788862
Oh, so you're at the point where you're ignoring all the text in replies to you. Nice.

>>53788871
Maybe you're confusing me with someone else?

>>53788838
My consciousness resides in that one exact brain (well, not necessarily in just a brain but let's keep it simple), yes - and in big part it's dependant upon that brain and its structure to the point that should that structure should be damaged or otherwise modified it will likely affect my consciousness even if exact copy of the brain from earlier point in time was made elsewhere.

>>53787212
I love when CYOAs like yours start internet fights over complex philosophical issues such as the nature of self and what is the essence a person because some one says cloning is basically immortality and then some one else disagrees.

>>53788838
Ok, so what if I then modified your clone's memories to remove the moments before I killed you?

>>53788914
Yeah, it may be offtopic and possibly annoy many anons but I actually like such kind of talks as long as they don't fall in quality below certain level (which, admittedly, they often do).

>>53788937
It's not off topic at all. That's the entire point of these threads, otherwise we'd just post shit to imgur or something.

>>53788814
No, only argument that was made against it was
>You won't be able to tell, but you also won't 'respawn'. When your body dies, your consciousness ceases, and you cease to exist. You fall into oblivion. A clone will be made, but you will no longer exist to witness this event.

Just arbitrarily deciding that death results without any attempt to argue why it would be so isn't "addressing this". But keep blubbering about how everyone who disagrees with you is shitposter, since that and declaring that death definitely occurs seem to be your only arguments. You can just say that it's because God takes away your soul since that seems to be the base of your arguments.

>>53788914
It's the creator's own fault for trying to pretend clones were immortality in the first place.

>>53788952
>Just arbitrarily deciding that death results
Anon, if you think death results in anything except nonexistence, then you need to state what you think it is and provide evidence. Especially considering the maker has declared point blank that souls don't exist.

What the fuck is going on in this thread?

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this one is a WIP being made by someone that isnt me

if youre the guy who made this and youre reading this, can you give us a quick rundown on the status of the rest of the CYOA?

>>53788980
We are talking about life death and everything in between aparently

>>53788980
>>53788914

>>53788987
>>53788653

>>53788975
Exactly, since souls do not exist, there is no difference between you and a perfect clone of you. Thus, cloning is form of immortality.

>>53788953
Well depending on your mind set and how loosely you are willing to define your self it can be considered close enough. Same way some people say you're fine if you use a teleporter or do the mind upload thing while other people just laugh and say you are just immediately killing your self.

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>>53788980

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>>53789033
Except that they're different meat and that when you die you're not being magically transferred to that clone. You simply stop existing. That was the entire point of that post, you retard. That's what you objected to. Now you're simply ignoring the question to talk about something else.

>>53789031
oopsy daisy, i did not see that

>>53789044
Subjectivity is for liberal arts students.

>>53789033
Reread the thread, if that's your argument, you've missed the point. There IS a difference between you and a perfect clone of you. The fact that your consciousness - the extent of your perceptions and totality of your self-awareness - is housed only in one of those two bodies. The other, while identical in every aspect, has separate consciousness, even if it's one thinking it's you.
So, since the first body together with its consciousness can die, it's not immortality - because just because there's the other body with consciousness believing it's the original doesn't change the fact that the original died and stopped existing together with its body.

You won't be aware after death, no matter how many clones you'll have. You won't feel, you won't think. There will be other guys who will feel and think the same things you would if you'd be in their place and alive, perhaps but you in particular aren't and won't be.

How long will you keep responding to the shitposter?

>>53788987
It'll be out sometime
Now that I have the format down it should take a lot less time to do the rest

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>>53788914
Yes, It's really fascinating to me too. I found it incredible that people actually talked about that sort of stuff when I first came here.
The philosophy of Love, Perfection, Immortality, clones, soulmates.

I don't like to talk about philosophy because I have my own mind made up in that I'm not going to say that my philosophy is the right one, because I could never know that. Debating is worthless to me, but seeing what everyone thinks about those subjects is incredible to witness.

>>53789100
>The fact that your consciousness - the extent of your perceptions and totality of your self-awareness - is housed only in one of those two bodies.
Unless it isn't? I'm not the guy you're arguing with, but you have to see that you are basically just posting an elaborate "no" instead of making an argument relevant to the scenario at hand.

>>53789122
Notice me senpai before I'll go to sleep? Remember you have to cuddle me so we can have good dreams.

>>53789143
This.

>>53789044
Some people are just really attached to their bodies.

>>53789057
I'm already different meat than I was just year ago and all the atoms I had in my childhood have been replaced multiple times, were those different people? Does anything of them remain or am I completely new person?

You still haven't answered, if you personally can't tell difference between falling asleep and getting cloned, then what's difference between them? What is so magical about unending brain signal in single meat sack that absolutely defines life.

>>53789066
Strictly speaking it's actually impossible for humans to think truly objectively because our very process of thinking is built off our experiences interacting with the world.

>>53788953
It really depends on the point of View.

For example, Sam from the movie Moon was practically immortal.

>>53789167
You're equating a slow process of individual replacement with being reduced to a smear.

I answered you. You simply ignore me, and this line of conversation is about a different point entirely. Which, again, you refuse to answer. What happens when you die, to you? What do you think, anon? You keep implying you think some magic thing happens and objected to idea that the person ceases to exist.

>>53789146
>Unless it isn't?
But it is at least in the boundaries of this CYOA where it was stated that there exist no souls - and thus totality of one's existence has no alterantive but to rely on mind which in turn is fully dependant on single particular body.

>>53789154
The only thing you'll be cuddling is your bodypillows

Wait, I'm confused.
Assuming souls don't exist and that there's no magic behind consciousness, wouldn't that mean that if your brain is constantly being saved to layer onto a clone of yourself is perfect immortality?

If you don't believe in soul and all that other stuff, how can you believe that your current meat is any different than a clone of you with your exact brain structure moments before death?

How can you believe in the free will and not in the soul at the same time? They're both magical thinking.

>>53789195
And why do you think it's dependent on a single body?

>>53789178
Yes, but with proper frame of mind, morality, perspective and attitude one can be relatively objective with there being little to no differences in practical aspect of their approach.

>>53789202
Guess one will have to spend some time on teaching you the importance of proper cuddling. It's all out of love for your own good and I am sure you will appreciate it in the end. You won't have a choice.

Alright, enough with yandereish Pallas bullshit for one night, got kinda tired of it

>>53789213
Why do you and that other guy keep acting like consciousness is magic without defining how you think it works? Do you believe in some weird quantum entanglement and observer effect bullshit or what? There are two basic positions here, meat and soul, and you come in trying to imply that neither are correct without defining this third option of yours.

What's the point of posting builds? What does anyone get out of it?

>>53789211
>If you don't believe in soul and all that other stuff, how can you believe that your current meat is any different than a clone of you with your exact brain structure moments before death?
If you have two otherwise identical balls side by side, are they the same object, or are they two separate objects that are otherwise identical?

>>53789211
When you die, do you think your awareness is magically transferred to another body? How is such a thing accomplished?

>>53789254
>What does anyone get out of it?
Another perspective.

>>53787212
Holy shit, I just saw the DLC

Time Warper

The obvious choice. Only interdimensional travel could broaden my horizon further.

Fabricator 2
Medical Lab 3
AR Room 1

Tweak genes, wait millennia, laugh. In the correct time zones I can stream it back to Earth.

Synthetic Android 3
Mind Upload 3

The android makes it easy to blend in with any locals and my digital state makes me more receptive to certain wonders. I can't say that I care about "dying" during the upload. The universe is so far from my day to day experience that my old identity may as well be considered dead.

Stunning Technologies
Alien Spaceships
Megalithic Structures
Alien Creatures
Ruined Civilizations
Young Worlds
Prime Cynosure AI
Dimensional Entity

It's a shame that I have to stay away from earth but I will have been a laughingstock at the time-traveller's big bang ball if I managed to butterfly effect myself out of existence.

>>53789213
Because barring metaphysical/supernatural aspect of it with your consciousness actually being not dependant on physical medium (ie existing as soul which was declared nonexistant in CYOA) there is no other explanation - your consciousness IS dependant on your body housing it.

>>53789257
If they are literally identical, then there is no way to distinguish them as separate objects, and no real gain from trying to do so either.

>>53789291
Except that both balls are capable of defining themselves as separate objects, and observers can acknowledge that there are two balls.

>>53789211
When you die, you don't wake up in that clone tank, a perfect copy of you does. Your consciousness dies with your body.

It's why the concept of teleportation through atomic reconstruction has always came off to me as a horrific idea. You're submitting yourself to be killed and then cloned somewhere else.

>>53789279
That reasoning doesn't preclude it being housed in two bodies though? Why can't it depend on two bodies instead of one? Or for that matter, depend on either body instead of both or just one?

>>53789291
>If they are literally identical, then there is no way to distinguish them as separate objects
They occupy different positions, for example.

>>53789192
Is there a specific rate that's too fast for replacement

You did not answer me, you said
>You won't be able to tell, but you also won't 'respawn'. When your body dies, your consciousness ceases, and you cease to exist. You fall into oblivion. A clone will be made, but you will no longer exist to witness this event.

Which is just arbitrarily defining that despite consciousness resuming, I am dead and the body that is copy of mine and has all my thoughts and memories is not me for some reason.

I "didn't answer" because you didn't ask a question, merely blubbered about death. Good job, you managed to ask a question now.

Death is permanent end of particular flow of consciousness, cloning and memory transfer resumes it so it is a form of immortality.

>>53789291
If your consciousness resides only in one of them, that's the difference for you. And that's the case in case of clones. The fact that external observer will see no difference between you won't mean you're the same. That's why it's a clone - a separate entity with its own consciousness just thinking they're you, not auxiliary body possessed by the same consciousness.

>>53789302
>Except that both balls are capable of defining themselves as separate objects, and observers can acknowledge that there are two balls.
Except if they are identical they aren't capable of that, and as far as observers go that's just a flawed outer perspective.

>>53789309
Or it's the same ball in two positions.

>>53789167
Your brain is part of your body. Your mind is your body. If one ceases, so too does the other. Your mind is in no way separate from the body.

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My fellow shitposters, let us take the next step and understand exactly what the "self" is.

You see, what makes you who you are? Is it the body you have? A soul? Maybe you're mind? In truth, it's a combination of these things for one reason, your experiences. From the moment your brain sparked in the womb, to the moment you see this text on the screen you are building upon your own experiences. From those you learn lessons and collect it all in your mind as memories. Every last thought, decision, memory, and observation makes up what is known as your soul. The manifestation of all these experiences that defines who you are. Autistic, mean, timid, adventurous, creative, and everything else., all formed from your experiences. That is what makes the self.

Now with that answered we can move to the real issue, immortality.
True immortality is only achieved while with your original mind, since previously explained that it makes up your "soul". By copying it you are just giving life to another form. They will be different from you and form their own experiences, drifting further from you with every neuron that sparks. One could even view amnesia as a death of the self, a new person taking your place. But I digress and bring us to the final point, you are the only true you. AI upload, clone, anything else, they're all copies that exist separate of yourself. They'd enjoy all the fun while you still died, screaming about what went wrong. If you truly want immortality, you must hold onto your original parts as best you can.

>>53789326
>Or it's the same ball in two positions.
Not possible macroscopically.

>>53789313
Other person, but your definition of "you" is obviously different than his. To you, "you" is anything that is truly physically identical, while to him, it's only the original copy.

>>53789306
>That reasoning doesn't preclude it being housed in two bodies though?
It does, to an extent.

Because those are clones, not proxies. The only hivemind mentioned (tier 3) is the "biological" based upon sharing of physical stimuli and knowledge, but there's no option for you to be single consciousness in multitude of bodies.

>>53789337
If what makes you "you" is your atoms, then reconstruction of body and restimulation of your neurons into same patterns as before then must mean that the person getting out of of clone pod is you, no?

>>53789359
No, it isn't possible if you judge it by common sense. But we aren't dealing with common sense here, we're dealing with two literally identical objects. There's no strict way you can say they aren't the same object.

>>53789326
>Except if they are identical they aren't capable of that
What magic force is stopping you from saying your clone is another person? I just did it.

>>53789313
To ask you a pointed question, if you were to be frozen instead of killed, and the clone was released, and then at some later date, you were unfrozen, which of the two "you's" would be the real "you".

>>53789385
Yes, I can, because they occupy different spaces and macroscopically a single ball could not do so.

>>53789389
When I said they aren't capable of that I meant that they aren't capable of being certain of it, not that they are incapable of saying random shit.

>>53789384
To everyone else, yes. Functionally, it would be as if you never died, save the fact your body was somewhere else from the original. However, the original version of yourself, the version that exists now, would be gone, and your consciousness would cease. Your present consciousness wouldn't transfer over, only a perfect copy would remain.

>>53789384
Not that anon but not necessarily - it's possible after all that what will emerge with be consciousness thinking they're you but you in particular will cease to be with cessation of your brain's activity during the time it's disassembled and reassembled - there will be just no one to tell.

>>53789313
>despite consciousness resuming
How is your original consciousness resuming when your brain is vaporized?

>>53789410
>no because no
Why not? Why can't it?

>>53789416
I'm pretty certain of it. After all, when I pinch myself, only I feel it.

>>53789394
We would be a form of twins, both of us would have been me until the moment clone opened his eyes and had experiences different than me. As our experiences start to differ, would be become separate persons.

>>53789427
I'm that anon, and this cogently explains my point.

>>53789445
Oh, do you have a literally identical copy of you running around? That's amazing, anon.

>>53789435
Not the anon you speak with. Why? That's how reality works. Those are two different objects, as you point out. By the very anture of them being different objects, no matter how similar, they're not one object. Since they're not one object, but two different ones no matter how similar, they cannot be the same object.

>>53789435
What he's talking about is a function of physics, anon. A single object cannot occupy two places under macroscopic physics, only under quantum physics. While you technically CAN argue his point, you would have to do so far above the level of an internet debate and propose a physics model where quantum principles apply to macroscopic models.

>>53789466
Would that identical copy feel it when I pinch myself? If so, through what mechanic does he experience it?

>>53789427
>>53789462
Except it ignored the premise (if what makes you you is atoms)

>>53789435
Because of physics. An object occupying two spaces at once can only happen at the quantum level, where the "object" has extremely little mass and is extremely small. An object that could reasonably be called "a ball" does not fit the criteria, therefore, it cannot.

>>53789487
The succubus, but not for the sex.
She is one of the better looking ones and I prefer cuddle-sleep to the rest.
And also sex

>>53789450
You can't both be "you". There can only be one "you".

>>53789423
If I open my eyes in the morning and cannot tell if I died during sleep and was cloned, am I dead? Why must consciousness be uninterrupted process within single body?

>>53789427
So what is so important about those atoms I have couple hours ago that they completely define who is me and who is not?

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>>53789508

>>53789510
Why not, why can't you be conscious in both bodies?

>>53789474
>That's how reality works.
By the laws of common sense, yes. But as I already said, we aren't dealing with a common sense idea here, we're dealing with two literally identical objects.

>By the very anture of them being different objects, no matter how similar, they're not one object.
Except they aren't just similar, they're identical. The problem is, since there is no way whatsoever to distinguish them without disturbing their identicalness, there is no way you can actually say that they are in fact not the same object.

>>53789476
I know what he was getting at with the macroscopy thing, I just didn't think it was necessary to get sidetracked with physics.

>>53789490
Well, if it's identical and doesn't feel it, then it isn't identical now is it?

>>53789510
Says who

>>53789521
You keep going back to the same argument while ignoring people who challenge it. I know you've been asked several times what you think happens to someone's consciousness when they die, but you don't answer.

>>53789257
>>53789268
>>53789303
>butthurt about magical thinking
>blabs about 'muh consciousness'
You guys need to reconcile this shit. Assuming that consciousness is anything more than advanced computations by an organic supercomputer is magical thinking in and of itself.
There is no 'you' because 'you' are a meat robot pretending to be an entity with free will.

>>53789492
What makes you "you" isn't atoms. Don't play a semantical card here, it just muddies the argument. Think about this, if I shot you in the face, and somewhere else in the world, an exact copy of you starting walking around, the concioussness of the original body wouldn't be transferred, only imitated perfectly.

My actual, personal response to you was >>53789423

>>53789565
>What makes you "you" isn't atoms.
No? I think you're the one playing semantics now.

>My actual, personal response to you was
That was a response to someone else.

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>>53789544
>Well, if it's identical and doesn't feel it, then it isn't identical now is it?
Then under what fucking mechanic is he feeling it? I asked you this, don't ignore me. It's extremely important to your argument, because if you say it's impossible then your 'perfect clone' absolutely cannot exist and thus those clones in the CYOA are not perfect clones, rendering the entire argument of whether or not they're you, under your definition, solved conclusively with a "No."

>>53789539
So far in the human experience, no one has been able to experience this phenomena, so frankly, either on of us could be right, but at this junction we may as well just call upon Newton's Flaming Laser Sword, because the answer to our question is quite literally outside of current comprehension.

>>53789492
Because you force your premise - consciousness, even as we know it IRL isn't merely sequence of atoms but interaction (biochemical, electric) of structures those atoms create (very vague and generalized take since we don't fully understand the consciousness yet). Forceful cessation of those interactions affects consciousness and changes what it is - and if it's dependant on such things, then cessation of them is also cessation of consciousness. The structure you will disassemble and reassemble will also be a structure identical to the one before disassembly, but it won't be THAT structure due to that structure ceasing to be at some point in time, no matter how short.

So if consciousness is emerging result of interactions in that structure between different parts of it, then you can assume that with new beginning of those interractions you also get new consciousness. You don't get the old one back because the one interactions ceased and the consciousness ceased with them.

>>53789553
It would help if you actually wrote what you want answered instead of blubbering about death and then claiming that nobody answers.

And I already answered it, you shitheap. Try to read what people write to you.

>>53789554
Magic doesn't exist in either direction. From one end, souls don't exist, but from the other end you would not telepathically inhabit a clone body simply because its brain structure is otherwise identical to yours.

>>53789554
The illusion of free will is what makes us human. Besides, your line of reasoning is irrelevant to the current conversation, and so you're a big ugly bitch.

>>53789565
If there's no soul and the "you" isn't made of atoms, then what it is?

>>53789590
>Then under what fucking mechanic is he feeling it?
Under the mechanic of departing the impossible-and-only-exists-for-the-sake-of-a-thought-experiment state of utter identicalness. They aren't identical anymore at the moment they diverge in any way, such as one feeling pain and the other one not.

>I asked you this
I think you're also confusing me with someone else.

Please include the totality of your argument in your post when responding to me, don't assume I read 50 posts of you and some other anon's discussion.

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>>53789450
>Quantum consciousness principle
Interesting theory you have there, my dear anon who is probably misunderstanding that the Schrodinger experiment only applies to quantum particles. Where is your evidence that quantum consciousness uncertainty is a fact of physics?

ITT: People talk about things they don't understand, trying to explain why they and only they are right with unconformable theories.

I don't get it. Why do you do this? Are you guys the premier authorities on the workings of consciousness, are you God who knows all things innately?

What is the reason for this meaningless circlejerk?

>>53789593
Finally, a competent person

>>53789605
Repeat it in it's own post, for propriety, or if you've already done so, link to it for easy access, because we've all been arguing like idiots for quite a bit now and the list of shit is getting quite long. Also your use Ad Hominem makes you a faggot.

>>53789554
As long as the eat robot is sentient and aware of itself it can define itself as such. So 'you' very much exists even when we're just biochemical reactions of complex structures shackled by our physicality and its limitations.

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Remember when /cyoag/ was about cyoas.

>>53789645
People are wrong on the Internet and it is our moral responsibility to correct them.
I might not be right, but I'm never wrong.

>>53789600
>Because you force your premise - consciousness, even as we know it IRL isn't merely sequence of atoms but interaction (biochemical, electric) of structures those atoms create (very vague and generalized take since we don't fully understand the consciousness yet).
This is irrelevant semantics. You're hanging your entire post on the fact that I wrote "atoms" instead of "atoms and biochemical and bioelectric structures that they create".

Please don't.

>The structure you will disassemble and reassemble will also be a structure identical to the one before disassembly, but it won't be THAT structure due to that structure ceasing to be at some point in time, no matter how short.
Why? Why does it ceasing to be for a time matter? You keep throwing claims around but you don't actually give arguments for them.

>>53789641
What?

>>53789636
You're trying to argue an irrelevant point when all of this ties back to the CYOA and, barring some evidence from the creator, your thought experiment is not reality there. Your thought experiment is outside the bounds of what anyone intended to argue about.

>>53789680
Except that identicalness is there in the CYOA, thus this is completely relevant.

>>53789665
>choose your waifus

Hardly a CYOA you slice of shitcake

>>53789645
>don't get it. Why do you do this? Are you guys the premier authorities on the workings of consciousness, are you God who knows all things innately?
We don't need complete knowledge of some process and nature of a thing IRL to make logical assumptions and arguments regarding functioning of such given the premise of CYOA. You also don't need to be any authority, merely possess highschool-level education to understand at least some of the assumptions here and judge them from the standpoint of current understanding of consciousness as presented by said authorities.

>>53789622
Brain function in the consciousness centers of the brain.
(I don't remember which ones they are, so I won't behave like a fool and pretend I do.)
The perception of consciousness is processed uniquely within every human brain. You could call that a soul if you like, it may functions somewhat decently to describe the phenomena, it's just got religious connotation about afterlives and what not that befoul the use in this setting.

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>>53789665
>Remember when /cyoag/ was about cyoas.
>proceeds to post waifu shit

>>53789697
I like it, I'm glad anon dropped it and it probably is a better contribution than anything you've made, you piss stain.

>>53789645
>Finally, a competent person
You flatter me, but the amount of times I've had to refer to spellcheck for the word "Consciousness" would beg to differ.

>>53789693
In that case, anon my dear love, you need to prove that the creator used the same definition of identical that you have, which is almost certainly not the case.

>>53789704
>>53789697
Waifu CYOAs are classic. How new or pretentious you have to be to somehow claim that those aren't proper CYOA?

>>53789588
Well you're ugly, so take that.

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>>53789731
If you're going to claim "Classic" as an excuse, you should post an Island CYOA.

>>53789699
Assumptions but not assurances. Black holes aren't understandable by conventional understanding, nobody knows what happens inside of them and all that exist are theories no solid facts.

Some smucks on 4chan are never going to discover the truth about consciousness in a cyoa thread no matter how long they 'debate'

>>53789731
>classic
>How new or pretentious you have to be to somehow claim that those aren't proper CYOA?
We're hitting shitposting levels that shouldn't even be possible.

>>53789729
No I don't, as I'm adhering to the common definition.