MARVEL IS BANNED.

NO CHANGES TO MODERN OR LEGACY

>>53781154
WTF is this?

>>53781154
DC WINS AGAIN

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APOLOGIZE

Sticky pls

>>53781578
MTG

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>>53781154
that's good I guess
Now my shitty BW zombie deck will lock competitive

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>>53781578
This is an announcement stating that pic related will no longer be a legal card for the Magic the Gathering Standard format.

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>>53781154
I don't play Magic, so can someone explain in layman's terms why WotC makes certain cards if they're just going to ban them later?

Is it just because their designers have no idea what they're doing and keep producing broken cards, or is it something else that I don't know about?

Attached is an image Google identifies as a pretty girl.

>>53781807
They have TERRIBLE testing. Granted there's ALWAYS shit that'll slip through the cracks, but wizards just has flat out bad testers, I think it's cause it's all the same people from years ago and they've fallen into patterns.
This issue is magnified with them becoming so neurotic about accidentally printing overpowered cards that they keep fucking making broke ass cards that are answers to "OP" cards that were never good ever.
At least it's not plain malice like eastern TCGs

>>53781807
They don't know what is going to be good.

>>53781807
Well Wotc testing in general isn't great, but recently they've been "pushing" cards for flavor reason (read: to sell more packs). Cards that they purposefully make powerful have a tendency to be overpowered.

>>53781916
It's always funny when one of their super pushed cards flops though

>lets ban good cards to force diversity

they could've just unbanned reflector mage and nature would sort itself out

>>53781916
>Cards that they purposefully make powerful have a tendency to be overpowered.
I don't see any marvel deck on vintage
the true reason is standard has become literally a playground for babies

>>53782179
>card is not Vintage-tier
>that means it isn't overpowered for Standard
ayy lmao

>>53782179
Yep. Standard has only been allowed to be midrange decks for years and years now. Pretty much the reason I stopped playing Standard.

>>53781807
Their balancing is off from time to time. In the case with marvel they probably didn't think you could consistently get enough energy to activate it and play it on turn 4, but it turned out you can.

And honestly it is better this way. Many other card games feel like the developers are making strict decks and breaking them up into boosters. The only choice you have is to pick one and put together the obviously good together cards. At least in magic there is a little bit of variety in that respect.

>>53781854
>At least it's not plain malice like eastern TCGs
What does that mean

lol WotC is such a joke. They've been a joke for years, and we're just now getting to the punchline. They listened to little Timmy whine about good removal and counterspells, and now they're reaping the consequences. This is why you need counterspells, dipshits. This is why you need control. If you don't print answers your meta becomes overrun with the most effecient threat of the week.

New strategy to make your stupid homebrew playable: bitch constantly at WotC until they ban any deck you lose to

>>53782324
"Ban what wins so that you HAVE to buy the next set, regardless of if the next set is stronger or not."

>>53782405
Then you realize that having constant bannings is still preferable to dealing with insufferable control players.

>>53782645
Sorry someone countered your Craw Wurm, Timmy. We'll be sure to ban anything that intrudes on your safe space!

>>53782645
This.
While I do think removal needs a little boost, I'd rather threats actually having some presence than deal with fedora control taking 2 minutes to decide whether counter a spell or kill it end of turn instead.
I miss INN/RTR Standard most of all, creatures were powerful but so were the answers.

>>53782741
>anyone who isn't playing control is just a Timmy
I bet you unironically say Magic: The Tappening too.

The funny part is that control players are the biggest whiners I've ever encountered in the game, right next to small children.

>>53782203
>overpowered for Standard
Here is the problem. babies like you don't want good cards because then you have to learn to play, and when a good card slips, even if it's really just a mediocre and uninpactful card, cry for a ban

>>53782324
YGO as an example, it's in the rules at konami that whatever deck wins that year's world championships MUST have at least two cards from the maindeck banned on the next banlist. That is a requirement from the company, regardless of what that does to the meta. Though >>53782639 is also correct, they'll ban cards from the top archetypes to push their new top archetype

Honestly, they might as well go the whole nine yards and update the ban policy to "Ban whatever Saffron Olive thinks we should ban"

>>53782179
Walking Ballista is played in the best deck in Vintage, doesn't mean it deserves to be banned
It's about the rest of the environment. Marvel would have been fine design if it entered tapped and had a higher cost to play, and maybe sacced itself like Gonti's does.

>>53782203
Marvel isn't even close to being playable in Modern, you WoTC employee.

>>53782846
Control has also been getting shafted harder than literally everything because of whining fags that can't handle getting their shit countered
Sorry that people want their games to go past turn 6

>>53782916
>implying I even play Standard
>implying Vintage requires any more skill than Standard
Troll harder.

>>53782946
or if they just printed good card like thoughtseize, counterspell, heck even fucking phyrexian revoker or fucking thalia guardian of thraben

>>53782603
Man, I PLAY home brews and I could beat marvel. Throw in four negate and call it good. Don't throw this on home brewers, this is the fault of inflexible net deckers who can't plan for a meta.

>>53782846
You're the reason why Magic: The Tappening is so shit. Please go back to Hearthstone.

>>53782978
Sorry that some people play for fun. Learn to play a color combo that doesn't necessitate griefing your opponents into the ground in order to win.

>>53782846
No, not everyone. There are definitely players who play aggro/midrange and understand why good answers are good for the game. It's not that everyone who plays not-control is little Timmy, it's that little Timmy is why Wizards killed control.

>>53783038
UR is literally just a pile of counters to beat marvel and guess what? it wasn't enough to stop it, didn't even have a winning record against it

>>53783069
>Sorry that some people play for fun.
I have fun playing belcher.dec against casualfags like you

>>53783069
>being this much of a whiny simpleton

>>53783038

>play four negates mainboard
>auto-scoop to g/b and zombies

Seems like a good plan if you want to go 2-2 at an FNM or have fun at a kitchen table, but at a GP where you have to go the distance and play through many rounds, it's going to kill you because you have to hedge your bets. You won't face marvel every round. Your deck will have to be robust. That's why marvel itself is such a strong deck at higher levels at GP's, as stated in the article. It has a broad range of good matchups, unlike the decks that run well against it, which have polarizing matchups.

>>53783091
UR Control didn't have a winning record against it but Temur Energy, RG Pummeler, Vehicles/Flash, and BG all did

so I'm not sure that's a great point for you

>>53781678

Ouch, that's ridiculous.

It can be paired with...what, two or three or four different effects that depend on having a big graveyard? And costs you nothing to benefit from doing so?

>>53782978
>Sorry that people want their games to go past turn 6
Such great and interactive games they are too. Truly, doing nothing but drawing cards and countering spells until you play your one inevitable threat is what all patricians should be striving for. Does a deck show up that can go under or over control? Why, it just needs a banning of course!

Anyone who finds that dull and uninteresting should just leave the game. Who cares if sales decline when you can finally have that T0 control deck and have hour long mirror matches with other elite control players like yourself?

>>53782916
>good cards
>learn to play
Yeah playing the broken deck of the month takes lots of skill

>>53783038
holy shit dude are you ok?

>>53783128
But all that demonstrates is that it's a good deck. It doesn't demonstrate that it's unbeatable or degenerate.

The very fact that you CAN'T just go all-out against Marvel demonstrates that it's a relatively healthy metagame. If Marvel was as good as people say, everyone would play it and you could sell out against it.

>>53781807
Officially it's because of shit play testing procedures.

Some would say that it's been an intentional process for the last year to ramp up excitement for the new set by having obviously busted cards in it and then ban them when people start to complain about how oppressive they are so that they keep playing.

>>53782916
>you need to l2p for fucking marvel
Knowing that you can not only turn sideways creatures but also artifacts is kind of a big hurdle, right

>>53783142
>Such great and interactive games they are too. Truly, doing nothing but playing your topdeck and turning cards sideways until someone's life total reaches 0 is what all patricians should be striving for. Does a deck show up that can go under or over aggro? Why, it just needs a banning of course!

>>53783176
Marvel is that good though. It was overrepresented at competitive events. You're an idiot.

The deck was 43% of the field going Day 2 at GP Amsterdam. That makes it the best deck by a fair margin.
It was 50% of the Top 32

Stay sour because you can't use your Tap-I-Win cards anymore

>>53781807
Also you cannot accurately predict what sets will truly be dominant in the hands of the players. Devs simply cannot compete with the colossal optimisation process of putting the game into the hands of the audience, who has the capacity to grind out the best cards through literally billions of games played. Devs could do more to improve their internal testing ofc but if you're making a game and are able to see the all optimal paths during development, you've either made a game with no complexity or are a wizard

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>>53783229
Fuck off maro

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>>53783229
>you've either made a game with no complexity or are a wizard
>Wizards of the Coast
>wizard
>Wizards

IT'S IN. THE FUCKING. NAME

FUCK

>>53783224
I agree that it was the best deck, but there's always going to be a best deck. You can't just ban the best deck every Standard. That's my whole point.

>>53783176

Spell queller is showing up in mardu lists because of marvel. Some even main board it. There's decks that mainboard multiple copies of artifact hate specifically because the field has so many marvel decks. And these decks can perform well against marvel.

I don't have an issue with you stating "people should just build differently" because I agree. There's a weird metagame where certain decks exist in top 32's because they have a good marvel matchup. But 4 negates, specifically, isn't the answer.

Banning seemed a bit over the edge but whatever. Wizards keeps banning the tier 1 deck of the moment. I've lost any faith in standard until this new design team they've thought of starts to show it's work past ixalan.

>>53783290
You're an idiot.

>>53783229
they haven't even been trying to remotely attempt to optimize decks in testing lmao, the stories that come out of of wotc's ffl sound like middle school discussions of decks
>dude todd's got the deck to beat, when the draw is real he easily kills you turn 8 with his blue red goblins

>>53783354
Even if you think that Marvel was too dominant for the format, Wizards explicitly doesn't, and didn't ban it for that reason

>>53783224
>>53783354
>being this much of a dick in a discussion about cards.
wew


>>53783290
To be fair, it's far more business than actually caring about whether or not the deck is good. Most players are god awful anyway, and short of building them a "Good" deck, they have no chance. (I fall into this category myself, so perhaps it's a bit of projecting.)

So by banning these seemingly "Best Decks" every so often, the shittier guys, who got their ass kicked by it feel better. Thus, enabling a cycle of shitty players who feel like they are listened to and pay more money, while the elite keep kicking ass and just get pissed when their decks are fucked.

>>53781154
well there goes my best match up, but also now I can build janky midrange instead of janky aggro

>>53782324
Yugioh has cards that are still on the banlist solely because the deck won hard at their Worlds Championship, despite the fact that in the current meta the deck would suck dick.

>>53782916
The joke here is that despite not being the strongest deck Mentor decks got hurt with Gush being hit, then proceeded to be one of the strongest decks anyway because WotC doesn't give a fuck about Vintage and neither does anybody else.

>>53781807
Because if they ban them before they're sold, they lose out on money.

>>53781154
HOW DO THEY KEEP COCKING THE SYSTEM UP!?!

>>53781807
Thing is, this is unprecedented. There are 4 fucking cards banned in Standard currently; They haven't needed to ban standard cards since 2011, and they haven't needed to ban 4+ standard cards in over a decade.

>>53781678
Am I wrong or would this card be good in every eldrazi deck ever?

>spawn go into graveyard
>free major eldrazi after like 4 turns

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>>53783750
That's basically what was happening. Turn 4 Ulamog, the Ceaseless hunger. Casted.

If not him then some other huge fatty of the "Fuck you" variety.

>>53783750
The energy enablers aren't good enough outside of Standard, and it's too slow otherwise.

>>53783785
Except for when the deck lost to itself and revealed five lands and one Attune with Aether.

>>53783750
You don't even need to play Eldrazi spawn, you just play cards that give you energy and/or sacrifice

(Also, I'm pretty sure that tokens like Eldrazi Spawn wouldn't trigger Marvel since they never actually go to the GY)

>>53783816
>since they never actually go to the GY
Tokens go to the graveyard. They just don't stay there.

>>53783816
Tokens do go to the graveyard, they just cease to exist once they get there.

>>53783811
True

>>53783832
tokens basically hit the graveyard for effect purposes and then disappear.

>>53783816
Tokens go to the graveyard and trigger effects.

>>53783842
Second part meant for >>53783816

>>53783832
>>53783840
Seriously? I didn't think they did. FUCK I've lost games over this. At least they were casual games so they don't matter, but still.

>>53783873
Many death triggers specify nontoken specifically because of this.

>>53783873
Yep. What happens is that the token goes to the graveyard, and then is removed as a state-based action.

704.5d If a token is phased out, or is in a zone other than the battlefield, it ceases to exist.

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>Too Strong for Standard.

They forgot to ban Gideon...

Back to 50% Mardu vehicles meta
hooray......

>>53784249
mardu vehicles was only 50% of the meta when the other 50% was cat combo retard

They shouldnt had done this.

>>53784249
They just want to make sure you can still play the hot new Gideon Tribal deck

>>53783639
It's not unprecedented, the combo winter happened. It's just been a very long time since they fucked up this bad.

>>53783639
there were more cards banned during urza block and original mirrodin

>>53784374
The Mirrodin one is kinda dubious since it includes a cycle of cards that are all the same as far as design is concerned.

>>53784333
Exactly! Combo winter almost killed the game; we're nowhere near that, yet they still need to ban 4+ cards?

>>53784267
Right but what is the big boogeyman card left in the format?
The only one left in the format?

What deck abuses it harder than all the others and now no longer has to run blue to fight vs marvel?
What deck crushes all control decks, GB decks, and is just an all around better version of the current UW decks?

What deck will crap all over this new RUG energy deck?
What deck plays the most unfair cards, the most consistent 3 color manabase in standard and a diversity of threats that literally cannot be answers?

What deck can still consistently win on turn 4?

That's right only Mardu
Without banning Gideon we have been made to suffer this agro shitstorn until fucking at least HoD and possibly much longer

I hope I'm wrong but I know I'm not...

>>53784333
>>53784412
Mirrodin.

>>53784398
Even if you decide to count the artifact land cycle as a single card, that's still at least our cards banned in Standard at the time.

Lets just have KLD/AER cycle out with Zendikar2:ElectricBoogaloo and keep SOI Block in standard.

This is exactly what happens if you stop printing disruption.

>>53784412
I agree. I don't know what the fuck happened.

>>53784433
See >>53784398
The Mirrodin bannings were effectively "decks that spam artifacts are too strong, we're nerfing them." Do you see anything so cohesive here?

>>53784468
I would be ok with this

>>53783141
Is this a prime example of the olde say "/tg/ is bad at magic"?

>>53784454
No? Mirrodin was 3 cards + artifact lands, this is 5 cards now.

>>53784412
If they've learnt anything they'll know to make bans before the game gets anywhere near as bad as combo winter

>>53784523
>>53784454
Oh misread your type. Yes it's four, now is 5. And as I said here >>53784501 the Mirrodin bannings were a series of cards with too much synergy with each other. This is just random goodstuff.

>>53784420
maybe stick to playing kitchentop magic there buddy it's more your speed

>>53784523
>3 cards + artifact lands
Which is four. Which is what I fucking said. CAN'T YOU READ, MOTHERFUCKER?

>>53784581
No you said "our." I thought you were making some sort of butchered comparison of card numbers to "our" standard, which is why I already posted a correction (with a typo of its own because of course). >>53784565

>>53784523
Honestly, Darksteel Citadel shouldn't be counted as the same card as the other artifact lands. It's mechanically different and wasn't even printed in the same set.

>>53784569
Name me a deck that will be able to beat vehicles now and I'll tell you why you are wrong

>>53784638
Four-Colored Superfriends.

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>>53784479
This. Removal is necesary for a healthy format. If removal isn't strong, then all of RnD's mistakes become all the more exaggerated.

Every format needs pithing needle, negate, duress, naturalize, a red spell that deals 3 damage, and something to exile graveyards.

Or, they just had to print pic related without the word "nonlegendary."

>>53784658
Dead on turn 4 before they even cast a walker

Heart of Kiran shits on PW

They can run glorybringer

They transition into a better 3 color superfriends post sideboard

Next.

>>53781807
Balancing a game like Magic is genuinely difficult to start with. There will always be some mistakes.

The current clusterfuck comes from a few things though:
- They're trying to add cards that are meaningful to players in Legacy formats via the standard set. As a designer it's tempting to think you can make something that's only useful in proportion to how busted the format is and not completely mess up standard. But there's only so many times you can print Force Of Will.
- They're shifting the design of creatures to be more spell-like and haven't gotten the hang of it yet.
- Apparently all the playtesters test block and they don't have a dedicated group for standard (lol wtf)

>>53784695
>Heart of Kiran shits on PW
Then WotC will have to ban it in the next announcement.

>>53784720
In August

So we only have to live through 3 months of pure cancer
Thanks wotc

Should have banned gideon

>>53784412
I saw someone else post this and it made a lot of sense. What if all of this is due to standard and limited bleeding players like crazy. We know modern doesn't make wizards money. But they keep doing these huge changes to the rotation, banning, how sets are designed now. The only reason I can see them making such changes is if things are going really fucking bad on the financial side of things. Maybe hearthstone, hex, and other tcgs are putting on more pressure than they've let on.

>>53784420
*Maro teleports behind you*
"We've had an overwhelmingly positive response to the Gatewatch"

>>53784638
holy shit you are bad at magic LOL

>>53784700
>Balancing a game like Magic is genuinely difficult to start with
No it's not. All you have to do is print good removal and powerful creatures at the same time.
If you don't believe me, consider that literally every powerful/banworthy archetype in standard so far (copycat, marvel, vehicles, Gideon) gets shit on by pithing needle.

>>53784805
Mardu player spotted

>>53784700
They test standard, they just are really fucking bad at it.
"CoCo is only for tribal decks" bad at it

>>53784902
no no no "coco is probably good in limited but that's about it"

my personal favorite: "servos is THE DECK to beat"

>>53784638
Didn't Black Zombies walk all over Mardu after everyone played after the copycat ban?

>>53784929
I really liked the eldritch moon testing decks

Delirium without emrakul
4 color control
Insert 4 other complete jank decks made by 13 year olds

The ffl is honestly so pathetic

They didn't just stop making effective removal. They fucking changed the Legendary rule so that that whiny shitters could keep their Geist of St. Traft.

>>53784971
Right because Mardu was running 0 sweepers in prediction of running into a lot of blue control decks at that event

Now though
Fumigate
Sweltering suns
Radiant flames

Zombies has no leg to stand on due to its linear playstyle and limited mana options. Mardu can tech into pretty much all the best cards in standard to answer any deck that gives it troubles

>>53784902
>>53784929
Many of these statements that R&D shares with us are made when the cards look significantly different. Sometimes the specific cards go unchanged but the meta turns out to be completely different than they thought, either because cards changed or because they missed some interaction or undervalued a particular card. And so on, and so on.

>>53784700
>relevant to Legacy
Little of what is banned right now is very relevant to older formats
>spell-like creatures
They've been doing that for years, they better well have the fucking hang of it by now
>playtesters
There's the fucking money shot. What a bunch of bullshit.

>>53781970
>lets ban good cards to force diversity
Sounds like post-modern western civilization.

>>53782947
>standard = modern
wut

>>53785053
yeah because they're fucking bad, that's the point. they've printed two cards in two sets that enable infinite combos, one of those is restricted to eternal formats alone which is a more reasonable oversight considering that infinite mana alone will not win you the game, the other was printed within the same block and was equivalent to a deck they had banned out of modern

>>53785142
I am not in any way defending Felidar Guardian. Whenever a permanent flickers other permanents the result is something degenerate, and they should have seen it coming.

Infinite combos in eternal formats is a given however, and not something they test for either way. Nor should they invest resources into it.

>>53785252
>>53785142
If they Banned Saheeli instead of Guardian Then maybe we would have a competetive Cat-Tribal Deck with Flickering Caracals :^)

I bet they only banned The Cat instead of the CrazyLady to stay PC by having muh diversity

>>53785252
>degenerate
You spelled fun wrong

>>53785342
They could've swung banning Saheeli as her being SO STRONG or something.
They went for Felidar because A) it's an uncommon instead of a mythic, so less people complaining about lost money, and B) Felidar is more likely to cause further fuckups than Saheeli is with unreleased stuff. If there's some other Twin effect in sets to come, banning Saheeli just means cat combo comes back, banning Felidar means it can't.

>>53784659
It's a fucking shitshow. Marvel + Ulamog would literally not have been a problem in the olden times. Pithing Needle or Meddling Mage would have been perfect and both would have fit very well into Khaladesh Lore. Any decent counters that would allow for a good control deck could break its dominance. Really, anything. They had the right idea when they made creatures better, but they should never have scaled back noncreature nonplaneswalker cards and they sure as fuck shouldn't have gutted disruption. Removal, Counter, Land Destruction and Discard are vital to the health of a format, there's a reason Richard Garfield came up with them you god damn baboons.

Please come back, Richard, and save this game. I miss you.

>>53785134
My argument was that these cards they are banning aren't all that great, not even fit for Modern. The only reason why are causing trouble is that the format, Standard, has such an abysmal power-level.

>>53785920
>They had the right idea when they made creatures better
That's debatable, but I think it's safe to say that they did it for the wrong reasons, even if it is "right."

>>53786550
I can barely remember any creatures worth playing before they made the explicit effort to make them better and those few I do remember were either strictly tribal (Lackey), combo pieces (Sharpshooter) or designed with/by a winner of an invitational who had a real interest in making a good card (Avalanche Riders, Bob, Meddling Mage)
Other than those and Grim Lavamancer I'm mostly drawing blanks. Not to say decent creatures didn't exist, but they were vastly outmatched by other card types.

>>53787100
Off the top of my head - Morphling, various black creatures enabled by dark ritual, Lin Sivvi, Psychatog.

I'll agree buffing them a bit was the right decision. But the ideal target point was about the power level of original Ravnica, not the current nightmare.

>>53787100
>Other than those and Grim Lavamancer
Wild mongrel and ichorid are stand outs from that particular block.

There's also pretty much always been a decent stock of quick small dudes to be used in the old aggro staples of suicide black, stompy, sligh, weenies and the like.

>>53786519
Congratulations on observing that Standard is a format with a much smaller card pool and power level than Modern?

I JUST GOT A PROMO LAST FRIDAY WHY

>>53786519
More like standard is utterly devoid of good answer cards, a simple phiting needle/revoker reprint would have already done a lot.
It's not that turn 4 marvel into ulamog is not good enough in modern, it's that you can prevent or deal with that much easier with proper deckbuilding/sideboarding.

>>53784638
Uhhhh Gravity bomb? Hello?

>>53787966
Thankfully the dev team seems to finally grasp that answers are integral to the game:
>We looked at making other cards legal for Standard that otherwise wouldn't be, like Pithing Needle and Duress.
They are concerned enough about providing answers they nearly made a Kamigawa card Standard legal. I personally think that instead of banning cards, they should make old cards that hose dominant decks Standard legal again. Not because it would be super-effective but because it'd be funny.

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>>53788661
Gravity bomb? What...
>Desolator magic
>Mono blue "tap target creature" tribal
HA! Well memed, my friend!

You _were_ memeing, right? It's not actually a good deck, right?

>>53789983
They've reprinted it much more recently than Kamigawa. Still pretty extreme, but not as much as your statement might imply.

>>53789983
>>53791556
They should really reprint one copy of pithing needle in each planeswalker intro deck, tbqh.

>>53789983
I always thought the decline to answers/control was because all the survey junk said new players hated control and their stuff getting killed so they printed less to appeal to those imbeciles. Have to say I feel rewarded for not playing standard since original innistrad and switching to legacy.

>>53784638
Control

>>53793396
Answers aren't the same as counters. There hasn't been a strong counter deck in a very long time. Hell, there aren't any decent counter decks in modern because they dialed back on those spells a long ass time ago.

That being said, yes, there's been a strong shift towards threats and permanents for more 'interactive' magic, but then they forget to make interactive pieces.
I'm not sure why they listen to new players, because hey, they're new. They don't understand the game, and if they're bitching about not being able to just slam shit without repercussions, then they don't understand basic game design, either. They're the worst possible group you can listen to. And the funny thing is, but listening and catering to a market segment that doesn't understand what they're doing, they also push things in a direction to where new players go "Well this is boring, we just mash creatures into each other every game," and they leave anyways.
I've seen the same shit happen with every game: The designers try to appeal to a wider demographic, but in so doing lose depth and flavor and the casuals they so wanted leave anyways because they were never going to stick around in the first place, and now you're also going to lose people who would otherwise have stuck around because it's too shallow to keep them engaged.
Fuck. Casuals ruin everything.

>>53793396
No. New players hate specific elements of control, such as counterspells and discard. They have seemingly no problem with having their giant dragon Termknated, however, even if it happens right after it came into play and had no ETB triggers, even though that's mechanically identical to having it be Canceled on the stack.

The reason for the worse removal was an experiment to see if they could make the meta more diverse by making it so that answers that were efficient only against a small subset of threats. The theory being that if one of the most common threats in the format is monocolored then people might start packing Ultimate Price to combat it, which would cause people to play some multicolored threat instead, which would then have to be countered by some other removal spell, and so on. The problem with this is that people don't just play a single pushed threat in their deck. Decks that played Fleecemane Lion likely had Siege Rhino in them as well, and so on. So now you had a situation where reactive decks, at best had one good removal spell in their entire deck for each threat their opponents could play. Obviously that doesn't happen. You cant pack answers for everything, and especially not if Wizards underestimated what turned out to be the best card in Standard and forgot to print efficient narrow answers to combat it.

>>53795523
Removal is more widely accepted cause it's not hoarded EXCLUSIVELY by a single color

>>53785591
You missed C) they don't want to ever ban planeswalkers or other "iconic" cards if they can help it, and D) banning a diversity walker is asking for more SJW flak.

>>53796741
Red has long had fork effects to interact with the stack, green has stack hexproof, and older, specific hate cards were sometimes blatant counters, like Lifeforce/Deathgrip

>tg on Magic 10 years ago
They only push the blue color and jace because new player like it more REEEEEEEE
>tg on Magic now
They removed all answers because new players don't like to lose their important, pushed for story purpose, megacards REEEEEEE

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>>53796741
>EXCLUSIVELY by a single color
Whatever makes you sleep at night.

>>53796824
Planeswalkers were a mistake anon

>>53796741
REB/Pyroblast, Artifact Blast, Avoid Fate, Burnout, Dash Hopes, Dawn Charm, Death Grip, i got pages of this anon.

>>53796758
>or other "iconic" cards if they can help it
And yet they would rather ban Emrakul than Marvel.

>>53796867
Emrakul had nothing to do with Marvel, while it required enablers, it didn't require any SPECIFIC enablers. It's like death's shadow, if they decide to ban the deck, it kinda has to be that specific card. Sure, they can hit street wraith, and that hurts it, but fetch/shock is just too integral to modern to take out.

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>>53796844
Also this.

>>53796867

Emrakul ban was designed to hurt both Marvel and Delirium

>>53781154
I mean, DBFighterZ is looking great but that's kind of an overreaction.

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>>53787916
Atleast it was a Aether Hub. Pretty soon you can trade it for your very own Marvelworks.

>>53797264
You can't stop combo decks by banning the pay off, as the ban of Emrakul proved once again. They'll just play the second best pay off instead.

>>53797852

It wasn't supposed to stop either deck, it was supposed to weaken them, Delirium and Marvel were the top dogs, so WoTC banned a card both decks used.

>>53797852
history repeats itself, ect ect.

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>people in 2017 still wasting hundreds if not thousands of bucks on printed cardboard

>>53794815
This. Wizards alienated its base in an attempt to cater to a market that has no reason to support them even in the short term, let alone the long term. Though at least the casuals did make an attempt to play the game unlike the SJW army and their telephone-pole screamers.

>>53797954
The best Marvel decks at the time already played Ulamog over Emrakul by then.

>>53783157
>broken deck
>has loads of bad MUs

standard shitters were a mistake

>>53796844
I've been preaching for years that counters should be opened up to both R and W.
Blue gets reliable counters that are a bit more expensive
Red gets cheap, but volatile counters
White gets "fair" counters

>>53796844
>>53797153
>One or two exceptions in a game with 23000 cards
>none from sets printed in the last 10 years

Wow you sure showed me.

>>53799897
Eternal formats have their own non-blue counterspell alternatives, of course narrow in scope.
If you want good non blue counterspell in standard might as well remove the color form the format, since other colors does everything else better than it.

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>>53797420
I love it when I find my new wallpaper in the strangest of places.

>>53797393
Underrated post.

>>53781605
Gonna be honest, this was my first thought as well.

>>53800982
>500x375
>wallpaper

>>53796824
You're full of shit. /tg/ barely talked about magic 10 years ago. Up through early Zendikar the magic community on /tg/ consisted of ~4 anons and an angry grinder tripfag, and most of the bitching was about Jund (and then the angry tripfag yelling at them to stop being scrubs). /tg/ didn't have a real magic community until the ask a judge threads took off.