Warhammer 40k General

>>53769958

First for chad marines a shit.

>>53769958
piss off man, theres already like 2 other generals open

3rd for the one true general

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>>53769975
Yeah but they're all shit. NOW I want some honest feedback dammit, you boys are smart and I could use the help

2k tech-coven
>dominus
>2 Lord Commissars with powerfists
[will convert using datasmith n' whatever shit looks cool]
>2 sets of 5 Infiltrators with swords (though good on paper, I've found tasers are meh)
>10 Fulgurite rave-priests
>2 sets of 40 memescripts
[will convert using FW tech-thralls]
>2 sets of three gravaphrons with phosphor blasters (cheeky for dealing units in cover)
>Onager Dunecrawler: neutron deletbeam or flyer deletarray
>imperial Knight-warden: Gatling Cannon, reaper chainsword, stormspear rocket pod

Are Astartes/Primaris even worth playing anymore when you can just spam conscripts?

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sixth for da boyz

>>53769958
FUCK OFF with putting shitty weeaboo videos in the OP
>muh daily duncan

>>53770015

No anon, in fact I would get your 30 boxes of cadian shock troops on order now before stocks run out.

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We have Lego Sisters of Battle before GW updated the 1997 models.

>>53770015

Yes? Why wouldn't they be?

>>53770015
Playing marines was never worth playing.

If I wanted generic space boys I would play Infinity.

If a spore mine hits a blob of 1 wound models, does it deal d3 mortal wounds to one model in that unit (overkill), or are the mortal wounds allocated to separate units?

>>53770029
Shot to death by pre-teens in one turn.

>>53770015
For fuck's sake, stop playing space marines for one god-dammed second.
Everything in 40k is about the generic fuckers.

>>53770015
I don't even play marines and I have over a 100 of them

They come in everything! For all I know there is a squad of marines in every codex!

>>53770055
>>53770070

There's only one way to play marines and that's rogue trader era marines when they were all thugs and scum in power armour.

>>53770058

But that won't actually happen? I've been play testing against conscript spam pretty consistently as my play group works out our various lists. They're very good but beatable if you aren't entirely stupid. They crumble incredibly quickly if your opponent makes poor choices.

>>53770111
What units tend to be effective against them? I've been trying to figure out if it's more effective to go after the commisars, or go after the conscripts.

>>53770097
>every edition box has marines
>last two have had marines vs marines
>learn to paint is marines
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Why isn't Nurgle stronger? Surely the way his plagues work, just infecting one guy in a hive city is enough to win big?

>>53770111
100 or less Conscripts can be defeatable.

Even stuff like 60+ ork boys with 5++ and 6+ feel no pain can be killed before turn 4.

But you need to pour a retarded amount of fire and some lucky rolls.

>>53770060
Wait, Brass Scorpion rules are out?

>>53770128

I play all 3 forms of Eldar so my experience is from that point of view. I find that units with fly aren't their friends - being able to charge quickly to stymie their shooting and then retreating and shooting at them again.

Wave Serpents have been really fantastic for me - I run 4 and basically just dump guardians out and shoot conscripts before charging with my Wave Serpents who aren't super worried about 'scripts then retreat next turn and shoot at them again with all my stuff.

>>53770056
They're wounds so they're dealt to the unit not a model.

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Just thumbed through the Imperial 2 index and I gotta ask: Why are custodes banner guy and champion still part of their unit when everybody and their dog have those as seperate heroes?

>>53770111
In my own observation, memes aside, conscripts are really fucking good at blobbing. 50 t3 wounds is a lot of shit to wittle down, especially since they won't run, and they make the perfect shield for big guns.

Also, like the anon yesterday brought up, they are damned good on locking up melee for several turns and being 50 fucking ablative wounds for killy units like Girlyman.

I'm not saying bring 150 of the fucks, but if the player knows what he's done (and not memes), they are still going to be a nightmare when used skillfully.

>>53770139
Beside the knight and air games cash grab. Only two board games didn't had marines.

Dark Eldar and the Assassin one. Everything else has marine pouring out from the box.

How important are command points in this new edition?

From what I've seen it seems quite easy to get 1 through some of the 1HQ+3HS/FA/E detachments, but would people dramatically change their list to get 3 through the battalion detachment (2HQ+3T)?

>>53770010
No one wants to give you feedback, you couldn't even be bothered to put 40kg on the post you worthless faggot. If you want advice then wait until someone gives a fuck, don't just spam shit.

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>>53770162
Yes. No points as of yet.

>>53770184

They're very good and will play at top tables. I am not arguing against that at all - if I played guard I'd invest in 50 quickly. However they are beatable - that's the only point I am trying to make. It takes some very good play to do it and is by no means ever guaranteed that you will overcome them.

>>53770222
They are a big deal but time and codices will tell if its worth sacrificing CP for a more killy/specialized army.

>>53770234
Okay, fair enough. I was just afraid it was being ignored due to shitflinging. Coolio

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>>53769973
their rules actually are lmao
>having 2 wounds and paying the price for them in a game where pretty much every weapon does 2+ wounds

>>53770170
This was my thinking too. I'm a nid player, but I was gonna test out some harpies the next chance I get.

1. Precision bomb the commissar in his bubble wrap.
2. Shoot/charge the conscripts, and let the morale phase do it's work.

>>53770274

Anything that can hit them in waves to disrupt both their shooting and their capacity to blob is a really solid answer to them. Most of the math evaluates them in a one unit vs. one unit situation which you just can't do - if you do you're going to lose every time. They are one of the best force multiplied units in the game at current so what you have to do is work out how to rob them of their punch.

If an Artillery unit ignores line of sight does it also ignore the character targetting rules? Can you target a character with an artillery unit? Im leaning towards no but not sure.

Don't mortal wounds and spite spam counter conscript meme armies? Unless your army is literally 99% conscripts, which isn't actually going to ever happen IRL.

Speaking of marines are units of 5 still good? In 7E you never really saw units of 10 since the heavy weapons were shit.

>>53770264
2W is a bit better against 1d3 than it looks. Rolls of 1 might as well be 0s because there's only a 1/9 chance of rolling 2 1s in a row.

>>53770348
I'ma say no, especially since we don't have templates anymore.

>>53770178
So in general, if a weapon deals multiple wounds, it is dealt to the unit to be allocated, and never wasted?

>>53770356

If you only use squads of 5 you will literally never be able to score objectives except against Primaris and single model units.

>>53770354
How exactly does smite spam counter conscripts? Aren't conscripts one of the most inefficient things to smite?

>>53770348
No, ignoring LoS doesn't affect other targeting restrictions.

>>53770376
Yes, damage is what doesn't spill.

>>53770376
If a weapon has a D greater than one, a successful wound causes that much damage. This can lead to wasted damage.

>>53770383
Does Smite not spill over? I might be mixing up its rules because I don't have psykers

>>53770139
Meanwhile in an alternate universe where Space Marines don't exist, the game died 30 years ago

>>53770238

Impressively brütal.

>>53770354
Placing mortal wounds on conscripts is inefficient placement of attacking power. Anything that can deal 50 mortal wounds can destroy 500 points of units that aren't conscripts., or 150 points of units that are.

>>53770391
Oh, I see. So a damage stat of greater than 1 can be wasted.

>>53770238

32 => about 640

>>53770348

No - there it only ignores 1 of the targeting restrictions. Not all. They can be targeted in the psychic phase by any power that gives you a chance to select a target though.

>>53770376
no.
Mortal wounds spread across models. multi damage weapons do not.
Hit roll, wound roll, allocate wound to model, save. Then if fail save roll for damage. All damage goes to that model.

Mortal wounds skip all that. A source applies a mortal wound to that unit, model loses wound.

>>53770376
>>53770178
>>53770056
Unlike damage from regular weapons, mortal wounds spill over to the rest of the unit. Page 181.

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>>53770362
thats an interesting angle and i agree but there is still a shitton of weapon that straight up do 2 or 3 damage

even badrukk (who you would previously never see in a non fluffy retardo list) can smoke three of them

chads iz gitz

>>53770354

That's hyper inefficient - the actual I guess 'hard counter' is lots of either flying units or units with some form of hit and run.

>>53770398
Smite does an average of one wound per use. That's one dead conscript per Smite usage.

>>53770418
the entire point of memescipts is spending that 500 on even more conscripts

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>>53770463
*3 of them a turn

>>53770465
>hit and run.

great, so i can order my conscripts to rank fire instead of being forced to disengage and was the order to allow them to shoot.

>>53770181
Because then they would actually be a playable army and that would take the spotlight away from marines.

>>53770070
>Everything in 40k is about the generic fuckers.
>Everything in 40k is about it's defining and most recognisable facet
you don't fucking say

>>53770111
>They crumble incredibly quickly if your opponent makes poor choices.
The problem is you can't base plans on your opponent being shit

>>53770465
I'd think highly mobile units that can get around them to hit supports and damage dealers.
Untested, but seems to fit the battle reports I've seen.

Are whirlwinds any good in 8th edition?

>>53770505

>Opponent being shit

No - if you make more than 1 or 2 placement mistakes with them or any any point during the game it can be capitalized on. I never plan on my opponent being poor but I always watch for him to make a mistake and even the best players make mistakes. In a 5 round tournament not every game is going to be perfect.

>>53770500

Whut? Do you know what hit and run does now? It says I can retreat and charge in the same turn - I'd never disengage from you and let you shoot.

>>53770184
They're simply too good, they devalue everything else in imperials by the comparison as well. 200 points per block with a commissar and a platoon commander, 2/4 shots each with a 5+ is just dumb. They'd be the best translated unit in Age of Sigmar as well which normally has a higher powerlevel than 40k.

I'm trying to think of a reason why, from a pure powerlevel standpoint you'd take anything besides lascannon hw teams, 200 cons and 40x+ plasma/melta scions.

>>53770553

So, you disengage to charge back into the blob and take overwatch shots?

>>53770382
Except you can send two squads of five, which is better than one squad of ten, because:
>virtually immune to morale
>free extra sergeant
>can deploy to two different objectives if needed
>more troops slots used means more command points

>>53770562

It's quite simple really, nobody is buying or painting 200 conscripts.

>>53770010
Depends on what your running/fighting m8:

Tasers are great against Guardsmen Equvilents, as they make you Str 6. Lack of AP becomes less of a problem if you fight stuff that has a bad save in the first place. Same deal with Flechettes.

Swords/Carbines are designated Marine killers. Str 4 swords and guns makes you much more likely to kill marines, and make their +6 saves less likely to do anything. However, the loss of additional attacks means your a bit more limited in the wounding department.

Another thing: In my opinion, unless your running big blocks of Rave-priests or ferrying them, they are not goint to be getting far. They lack the necessary transport, and their saves simply aren't good enough.

Other than that, looking good, aside from the random Memescripts.

>>53770184
>I'm not saying bring 150

Tbh 100-150 in a 1500 list seems like the magic number for me.

>>53770487
The point is that anything capable of dumping out enough mortal wounds to destroy a memescript army in five turns would also be capable of tabling all non-horde armies on T1. Such a thing does not exist.

>>53770412
Maybe if they weren't shoved down everyone's throat this wouldn't be an issue.

>>53770570

100% - because I get to shoot at you again before doing it. It accomplishes my goal of both forcing you to disengage or you attempt to stay in combat whereby I disengage - shoot at you again then recharge you to continue to prevent you from being able to dictate the pace of play.

>>53770562

There are a few answers that have nothing to do with game balance and thus aren't valid answers from the point that you are asking the question but are still reasons you'll never see the army all over the place.

>>53770238
>32 power

Yeah, it's gonna cost a shit ton.

Also, where can I find the rest of the rules?

>>53770551
They are god tier against normal armies.

>>53770264

Because against most weapons they're 100 points for 10 MEQ wounds which is 30 points cheaper than a completely naked tactical squad

AKA they're bullet catching speed bumps plain and simple

hellblasters standing next to a captain are quite good though and are basically missile devastators except you know, useful.

>>53770584
>get 200 conscripts for 200€ by buying the snapfit boxes of 5 guardsmen
>swarm board with 200 unpainted unglued guardsmen

>>53770584
They don't have to paint them all. Also I've seen boxes full those guys. A lot of people already have a shit ton, it's not like they have to buy them today.

>>53770610

Looking for a replacement for a vindicator I was running in my list, people say vindies are pretty shit in this edition.

>>53770610
>godtier
how come

>>53770574
>deploy to objectives you will never capture or contest
>immune to morale because you'll be FUCKING DEAD
>can just reroll morale with ATSKNF anyways

This isn't 7E

>>53770562
>age of sigmar
Wait.
>both have the same rules
>both now have the same bases
Oh my god, there won't be a 9th edition 40k, it'll be just Warhammer and you can have freeguild swordsmen fighting nobz, and orruks fighting chaoschads while primaris and stormshat pummel each other for following the wrong golden man.

>>53770551
They actually got more lethal, but also went up a lot in cost. They are tougher, but you never really worried about them getting shot anyway and they are useless if they get stuck in close combat. Overall nerfed, but they were a really good unit against the right targets before, so still viable, especially as hordes are apparently popular now.

>>53770686

This is by far the most dystopian future on /tg/.

>>53770616

Also adding to this: Hellblasters are costed identically to lascannon and missile launcher devastators while having 2 wounds each and comparable guns that become bonkers at 15" and have zero move and fire penalty.

They're the current MVP of the starter box, kind of like retributors in the AoS box set. If you trade your death guard for more primaris, you'll take all 10 hellblasters every game.

>>53770721
Two sets of warmahordes?

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>>53770686
THAT'S NOT TRUE
THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE

>>53770574
serg aint free my boy

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>>53770686
>Sisters and Bretonnia
>Witch tits with wych tits

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>>53770686
You take that back

>>53770792
Brettonia no longer exists.

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>>53770649
Sometimes, objectives don't have multiple enemy models near them. In those cases, being able to do the job with five models is better than doing it with ten. If you do need the numbers, just send both squads. The objective rules don't care how many units you are in.

Two squads of five is harder to kill than one squad of ten. The enemy might not be able to see one squad. They might assign more attacks than are needed to kill five models. And morale can matter to a squad of ten. Take eight casualties and you will lose at least one guy to morale. Take those same casualties on two squads of five and you don't have any worries.

The only downside to smaller units is that you can't keep special weapons alive quite as long.

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>>53770803

>>53770803

It does in our hearts.

>>53770584
I know its dumb but that's not a reason for it to exist as it is. Anyone bringing them is getting about 200 free points of power per unit of 50.

>>53770494
Is just a moment, mind it - but the image is fantastic because it gives you the temporary illusion of enuff dakka

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>>53770610
>have 3 plastic WWs
>have 6 hyperios launchers and enough spare rhinos to mount them on
>mfw

Played Necrons this days. Pleasantly surprised after all the doom and gloom I read about them online.

The new protocols are awesome, as the fact that you continue to regenerate every round makes so that a unit with only some models remaining can still return to almost full force in a few rounds. The fact that a unit can be focused to death is mostly theory, as models are more durable in general this edition, and in my test games it's been pretty rare that the opponents has the necessary amount of firepower to obliterate a unit in a turn. In most of my games first blood was actually scored around turn 3.

Ghost Arks are also awesome. They are hard as nails with lots of wounds to absorb weight of fire and quantum shielding to make them unappealing to lascannons and similar.

My favourite trick with them against Tyranids was disembarking the warriors, shoot at rapid fire range from both them and the Ark against a melee unit, using the warriors to resist the charge, the having them retreat into the Ark and heal while the ark flyes away and shoot again, only to repeat it next round.

Scarab swarm also with the prize for most utility units for me. At 39 points a unit I used multiples of them to stop deep striking, shield charges and in a pinch do their damage. Two units forced a Trygon and 30 hormagaunts to waste their deep striking and then waste another turn forcing them to choosing between charging a 39 points unit with a Trygon or go around it.

>>53770828

It's more that every game has holes in it, in the new edition of flames of war they have the same problem in that to make light vehicles effective they made them cheap but now it's possible to make lists with like 90 light or cruiser tanks. But people have realised that this is all theory, it will never happen.

So if a game has to have problems it's better to make them theoretical ones.

>>53770732
>comparable guns

Not really. Plasma incinerators are damage 1 (2 on overcharge) while krak missiles and lascannons are D6. They are still a fairly decent unit though. Their biggest weakness is not being able to exploit the defender allocating saves thing by padding the unit with bolter dudes.

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>>53770803
>start my army just before end times
>GW axes my models

I cant even bring it up without some sigmar fanboys chimping out

>>53770828

Power Points are a garbage system that no legitimate event is going to use.

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>>53770686
im gonna have to politely ask you to QUIT YER YAPPIN before Gw sees this

>>53770876
>krak is d6

HOW DID I MISS THIS

>>53770872
this
Harder to take 300 conscipts than 3 riptides

>>53770893
Anon, they planned this all along.
Now space marines can encompass everything.

>>53770780
OK, you have to pay the same cost as any other marine for him, but you get his extra attack for free and you can give him fancy weapons (which is good for tactical squads, who suffer from being rather durable but not having enough firepower)

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Rate my space wolf "Imperium" list?
Batallion Detachment
HQ: Krom, Rune Priest
Troops: Blood Claws x10
Blood Claws x5
Elites: Vindicare Assasin
Fast Attack: Thunderwolf Cavalry
Lord of War: Knight Paladin
Transports: Drop Pod, Rhino.
The idea is to have the HQ's and the lesser blood claw squad in the Rhino while the other squad deep strikes in. The Knight acts as artillery and the assassin picks off characters while the Thunderwolf's flank. We're playing at 75 power.

Haven't played since 5th edition. Used to play Orks and 'Crons, Which one should I pick back up for the new edition?

>>53770926
>Using powerlevel

GTFO filthy casual

>>53770893
>implying 8th isn't AoS second edition.
>you can use 40k models and rules in AoS with little to no effort.
>just axe some stats not used in AoS
>Conscript Spam in AoS

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>>53770922
>>53770953
im sorry anons, but thats ENOUGH

>>53770855
I just wish the Ghost Ark was 'open topped' again. I mean hell look at the thing! How much more Open Topped can you get?!

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>>53769958
>>53769237
I am not this anon but I am also curious why this isn't a thing
I created my own Ekene Dubaku model the Chapter Master of the Celestial Lions and now I can't even field him, what the hell?

>>53770953
8th edition has more in common with 2nd edition than with AoS. The only thing that seems to be taken straight from AoS is Morale.

>>53771001
And no wound chart.

>>53770991
If you look at how the Necron Warriors are transported inside it I can see why it isn't though.

>>53771000
They'll probably pop up again as actual things in the codex.

Otherwise, just run him as a captain.

>>53770562

>I'm trying to think of a reason why, from a pure powerlevel standpoint you'd take anything besides lascannon hw teams, 200 cons and 40x+ plasma/melta scions.

You wouldn't. A WAAC Guard list will look like a conscript blob or two to sit on objectives/blunt melee rushes, plasma Scions for the DPS and lascannon HWS for anti-tank. Taking anything else, our God awful tanks especially, is sub-optimal.

>>53770991
To be honest, now open topped just means that the unit inside can shoot. And the Warriors inside aren't in the best conditions to do it.

Also, 40 Gauss shots from a vehicle so durable would be pretty OP.

>>53771037
ironically enough the WAAC guard list loses to the memescript list

>>53771037
dont forget to throw in some cheapass psykers for that sweet +1 armor spell

>>53771000
Because a "Chapter Master" model don't exist. Just run him as a Captain.

>>53771000

Wasn't an option in the 7th ed. book either so yeah...

>>53771020
It still has a To Wound chart (because using a chart would jsut have been more complicated for the sake of being complicated)

AoS doesn't have a To Wound anything, but such a dumb system that it doesn't even matter anymore what army you play against, there is literally zero interaction between your and the enemy army outside of unsaved wounds caused.

>>53771074
actually there is a 4 pack

>>53771000

The captain profile kind of encompasses both of them, if you look at Pedro Kantor he has the exact same characteristics as the captain profile but he's a chapter master.

>>53771080
It doesn't have a wound chart.
Are strength and toughness equal? 4+
Is toughness higher than strength? 5+
Is toughness twice as much as strength? 6+
Is strength higher than toughness? 3+
Is strength twice the toughness? 2+

Is it worth mixing and matching the turret and sponsons of a predator or is a monotask predator still the way to go?

I was thinking of doing Triple las but that conscript list and the strength of horde armies are making me considering bringing more anti infantry weapons.

>>53770876

Comparable but not directly equivalent in their specialization.

Hellblasters will win on average if they can get into rapid fire range with overcharge, especially with a captain buff. Not an absurd situation with move 6" and 15" rapid fire range either.

>>53771103
I have no idea what you are talking about.

>>53771106
If we look at named CM the only distinction is that the CM aura makes you reroll all failed to hit rolls, not only the ones.

>>53770214
>Dark Eldar and the Assassin one. Everything else has marine pouring out from the box.
Spikey Marines were in the Assassin box retard.

>>53770128
Tesla Immortals cut through conscripts and barely take wounds on the rebound. Especially good witb stalker support.

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What is the best Daemon Engine for a World Eaters army? The Maulerfind has piss-poor offensive power but is very fast and tough, while Helbrutes fare better in combat but they're complete glass cannons (only 8W and M8" vs maulerfiends M10" W12 heals one per turn, but only A4 WS4+ and degrades).

Defilers just suck. Expensive, innacurate, relatively slow and only 3 attacks. Then you have Heldrakes which are quite neat but don't have any real anti-vehicle options.

>>53771103

Those are masters of the chapter, which are just titles given to different captains. There aren't literally 5 ultramarine chapter masters

>>53771134
Always magnetize as far as model building goes. But for game play, specialize, marines are multi-task enough as is and tend to suffer for it. So either tri-las or go autocannon + HB or Baal pred if you are BA

>>53771132
That's just a simple chart you mongoloid.

>>53771138
Fuuuuck Marines are literally everywhere!

Marines confirmed for not popular and just forced meme.

>>53771168
No it isn't, it's just look at the numbers timmy and roll a 4 because you're playing marines on marines like GW wants.

>>53771132

>Says there is no chart
>Proceeds to show a chart

>>53771139
>>53771139
Do teslas have to roll a natural 6 to get the bonus, or is it 6s after modifiers?

>>53771161
Ok.

Do we know how many long ranged 'anti tank' weapons would be good?

I was figuring of doing 3 las preds.

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Will taking a dakka knight stop the memescript tide?
also how the hell does the titanic feet weapon work

>>53771189
It's a comparison, not a chart.

>>53771192

6+

>>53771146
Heldrake is a melee unit now, which scream across the sky in pursuit of prey.

>>53771192
Just a hit roll of 6+. Makes them bonkers with overlord support.

>>53771206

>Will taking a dakka knight stop the memescript tide?

No in fact conscripts are the hard counter to a knight

knights work well against MEQs and not-hordes.

>also how the hell does the titanic feet weapon work

They're just a melee weapon and you get 3 attacks for every attack on your profile when you use them, simple as that.

>>53771217
I don't often come onto /40kg/ but I can assume there was a big deal made out of this. That being said, I can't believe I missed it before, that's some nightmare-tier damage output.

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>>53771206
Vulcan Mega Bolter from the Stormlord seems to be the most efficient weapon, for almost everything.

>>53771214
So a natural 5, but with a positive modifier of 1 from some bonus, will get the tesla special effect.

I'm just clarifying. The 6+ language is the exact language used in the rule book, and if that were clear to me, I wouldn't have needed your answers. I am not a clever man.

>>53771204
Until we have a grasp on the meta, not really. At a guess, expect less tanks than in 8th

>>53771217
Also they are back to being gods of overwatch, second only to dedicated flamer units.

>>53771245

Yes - that is why I posted 6+ not a 6. A roll of a 5 with a +1 will trigger the tesla rule.

>>53771192
they actually talk about this.
If it says "roll of 6+", it means after modifiers. If it says "roll of 6" no plus, then it's what's on the physical die, not the modifiers.

This mainly applies to things that say "roll of 1". That means a 1 on the die.

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>>53771215
THEY REAL FUCKING DRAGONS NOW

...but they don't have any anti-vehicle, so I'm reluctant to have more than one in my army.

>>53771244

I will say, I think a stormlord with 20 lascannon HWTs on the firing deck is the closest approximation we'll get to having a naval warship in this game.

>>53771261
Flamer units are easily countered by charging from outside flamer range though.

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>>53771279

>>53771249
Less tanks or less transports?

If anything I want to bring more tanks than I used to....which isn't saying much considering that I was all infantry back in Fifth/early Sixth.

>>53771282

HWTs probably take up two spots each. Unless it can transport 40 models, you will probably have it limited to 10.

Still, quite the beastly tank.

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>>53771288

>>53771249

I'll be bringing more Wave Serpents now.

>>53771279
I dunno, Hades Autocannons seem pretty decent for taking chunks out of vehicles.

>>53771288
I like everything but the tail.

>>53771286
Yeah, which makes Tesla Immortals so good at it.

>>53771265
>>53771272
Thanks! That does make them a nightmare. Give them My Will Be Done, and let them reroll 1s with a Stalker unit, and they will tear things up.

>>53771313

It can absolutely transport 40 models and HWTs merely count as 2 for this purpose

Due to the wording of the firing deck, you can have all 20 on top shooting out just fine.

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There are a lot of things I could trim to remove the extra 84 points.

Any suggestion?

Mind the shitty Excel list builder

Hey just need some rule clarification in 8th.
There is a rule that I guess works as monster Hunter or tank hunter called tank ace. This rule states that you get +1 on your to wound rolls against a tank or monster.. now is this +1 work as one of two ways: is it that your to wound rolls gets 1 added so if you roll a 5 it now becomes a 6 or is it that you would wound on a 2 if you would normally be wounding on a 3 effectively wounding if you were double the toughness but having no benefit if you already double it?

>>53770855
Any more opinions for units? I'm thinking about starting a Necron army.

Is this IG being op a meme?

my local meta bans every top codex, and i only play imperial guard and death korps.

>>53771279
Forgefiend with triple ectoplasm can deal up to 18 wounds a turn at high st, but sadly there is no good way to get it into range. Double hades is pretty decent anti vehicle.

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>>53771207
>>53771188

It makes a chart

>>53771344

Is this a RAI or RAW ruling, or is it merely oversight? Because your only justification seems to be "wording."

>>53771323
They're Heavy 4 on a BS4+ unit. And remember you lose 1 ballistic skill when moving, so they'll be hitting on 5s. Even if you dont move them, it's only 2 hits on average which isn't worth the points.

>>53771359
str 6 seems to be where it's at

>>53771352

So no one in your local meta could play Eldar for 2 editions? What kind of faggot group do you play in?

>>53771351
Tesla inmortals in night scythes, use deceiver to redeploy onto points and drop the troops before the game starts.

>>53771381
depends on what you're facing, and what weapons give you S6 vs other things.

>>53771359
>>53771381
Keep in mind that no model in the game is higher than toughness 8 unless it is an immobile building.

>>53771381
Untill there are units that go above Toughness 8 having Str 5 is good enough.

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>>53769958
So, with Inquisitor Covenant coming back in a novel series and bringing Josef and Duke van Castellan with him, and Captain Artemis already shrunk down to 40K scale, are we getting an Inq28 game from GW some time this year?

>>53771411
The theoretical highest toughness isn't relevant. It's the most common toughness you should be considering.

>>53771352
No they are pretty fucking good, they can easily get 13+CP in 2000pts where most other armies will struggle to get 9 and their firepower is also pretty good while having the option for a ton of bodies which in this edition is better than before.

IG, Tyranids and Orks are all top stuff because they get CP out the ass, bodies to swarm and either good CC or good firepower but you have to keep in mind that since its a whole new balance you can win against the top dogs with good play even if you brought a mid tier army. This isnt 7th ed, even the losers can take games of the top armies.

>>53771365
It's RAI. There's no ambiguity about the wording.

>>53771381
Na, strength 5 is best all rounder because, as far as I know, almost nothing is T10+ so it's always wound on at least a 5.

>>53771419
Who are these folks?

>>53771365
It's both RAW and RAI.

>>53771365

>"up to 20 models transported by a stormlord can shoot in the shooting phase..."

>each heavy weapons team takes up the space of two other models

The way its worded, heavy weapons teams only count for how many total can be in the stormlord. There's nothing that actually connects that to the firing deck

Actually now that I think about it, isnt that how it worked in 7th too?

>>53771359
It's not a chart, you just made one out of nothing.

>>53771463
I think you are saying silly things to get a reaction.

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>>53769958
>Tfw IG player
>Tfw the most feared unit in the codex is now conscripts
>like they didn't the exact same fucking things they do now in 7th edition
>not the multitude of other extremely deadly things we have, like stormtrooper spam, taurox prime punishers, Manticores, waves of 27 pt mortar heavy weapon squads, our disgustingly high access to heavy flamers, or the fact that our characters are some of the most points efficient force multipliers in the game
>b-b-b-but my knight can die to lasguns now

I already kind of suspected it before, but a significant portion of the playerbase may actually be retarded.

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>>53771442
Big Guys.

>>53771509

Unfortunately /tg/ is very very bad at any form of competitive play.

>>53771509

1) lasguns could not hurt anything above T6 or AV10+

2) Conscripts required an entire platoon to take 1 blob of, thus had a platoon command squad and leader plus infantry as tax

3) orders did not go off automatically nor did FRFSRF make lasguns fire 4 times within 12".

4) commissars did not make conscripts auto pass morale in exchange for 1 casualty.

All of these together make conscripts the most points efficient unit in the game, bar none.

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>>53771442
(4U)

>>53771508
Of it were a wound chart there'd be more nuance.
Like 6+/4+.

>>53770892
I meant power point as an expression of ability per point value not GW Power Points tm.

>>53771419

Technically it's already Inq28, though that's a fan community.

I'd love to see Inquisitor/Inquisimunda come out for the tabletop. Forming small bands of notable individuals and weirdos and stuff would be pretty awesome. Basically a tabletop RPG played with miniatures.

I just hope they come up with a solid and granular campaign system; give us who like detail and depth of play something to play with.

>>53770902
I don't think 200 is outside of imagination with airbrushing. Whfb armies where doing stuff like that weren't they?

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>>53771549
>4) commissars did not make conscripts auto pass morale in exchange for 1 casualty.

You were already sounding like an idiot before this, but at this point I knew you were talking out your ass.

This is exactly what commissars did in 7th. You went up to leadership 9, if you passed, you lost no one. If you failed, guess what.

You lost 1 model.

It's literally the exact same base format at 7th edition.

So either you don't play guard or are a newbie at it and don't know what you're talking about.

On your other points

>1) lasguns could not hurt anything above T6 or AV10+

realistically they can't now either. It's far more efficient to just bring dedicated anti armor weapons, of which the guard have tons of. You know, like our hideously efficient troops stormtrooper units that don't scatter anymore.

>2) Conscripts required an entire platoon to take 1 blob of, thus had a platoon command squad and leader plus infantry as tax

about the only thing in your favor so far, but that "tax" was a whopping 130 pts of yet more guardsmen and weapons. 30 of those were on a command squad that is your officer now, so you were bringing that anyways as well.

>3) orders did not go off automatically nor did FRFSRF make lasguns fire 4 times within 12".

While true, anyone who wasn't a fucking moron kept a commissar with their conscripts so they were passing orders on ld9, or using one of the multitude of relics we had that made orders practically guaranteed.

So again, actually learn how guard work before you spout conscript memes.

>>53771627
>no your a retard, actually wounding is worse than not being able to wound
You're just a salty man upset at his expensive elite models getting rendered innefective by some anime sol characters.

>>53771558
You do realize that a chart is just a graphical representation of values, right? There's nothing special about it and the current To wound is a chart.

Anyone knows what happened to the Inquisition movie? Was it canceled by GW?

What weapons should I give land speeders? I was thinking HB + Typhoon

>>53771608
I miss my O&G army. I had easily over 200 models between my goblins and orcs.
All handpainted.

>>53771677
its still being worked on and apparently GW is fine with it

>>53771671
You actually had to make one, unlike gw who is too afraid of Billy being turned away by the concept of memorization.

>>53771677

Still happening. It's just a bitch to actually make because they don't exactly have a massive budget and enough manpower to crank it out on a regular movie schedule.

>>53771386
How would you deal with a Ork player that just loves bringing hordes?

>>53771345
What are your detachments here?
The only way to run this would be Patrol + Spearhead, which is a whopping 4CP for a 2k point army (which is bad).

TwinMM immolators are also quite bad, for the most part. You want to move, but 4s to hit is pretty bad for something you want quite reliable.
My SOB units have generally been HB, flamer, combi-flamer and been going great. They cost 165 for 15 models and hit pretty hard.

I also am a fan of 10man ret squads. With a plasma they'd do about ~4.5 MEQ wounds a turn, which is pretty nice. Potential of 9 a turn with faith.

But the CP is an issue. Forcing combat priorities is really big for units like Celestine. I'd try to get a third BSS in there and fit it in a battalion. But that would mean cutting a heavy.

>>53771677
This is the latest update

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZc6cr6G2E4&t=341s

Its still going to happen and GW gave them the green light years ago, ADB was supposed to write the script but the guy doing the movie and ADB couldnt compromise on the script so they fell apart and the animator is doing the script.

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Arc Maul, Taser Goad, or Power Sword for Vanguard?

Does it matter if I make a detachment made solely of a wider faction (like "Imperium" or "Chaos") versus a more specific one (like "Astra Militarum" or "Chaos Daemons")?

Is it only a special-case thing?

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My flgs owner told me the foetid bloat drone can carry troops. He's full of shit right

>>53771696
you do know that the old wound chart was actually a series of memorized concepts to?
both actually are better represented by simple math equations.

7th ed was.
Let N be the number needed on the Die.
If T-S+4>1 and <7. Strict less and equals of course. Then N=T-S+4.
if T-S+4=<1 then N=2.
If T-S+4=7, then N=6.
If T-S+4>7, then N=7. IE impossible.

>>53771713
Pour in the tesla (lots of ways to improve their shooting) or deploy my Lychguard out of the scythes instead.

>>53771509
Other than actually getting their 5+ save and FRFSRF getting sillier, one of the major things that makes conscripts nicer in 8th is that in 7th, blasts were converted to 8th with a number of hits that assumed that you were targeting a smal unit at maximum coherency. You couldn't actually spam that many guardsmen in 7th because if you put them all at maximum coherency you would actually run out of space.

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>>53771670
what part of realistically did you not get?

If you are hunting titans with conscripts expecting them to actually be anywhere near efficient at it you're insane. They're going to do maybe a couple of wounds at most, meanwhile a similar pts unit of stormtroopers can outdamage them by just bringing a bunch of melta/plasma and dropping into rapid fire range. Meanwhile your conscript blob has to somehow corral 50 men into 12" range without getting charged.

This is also insanely stupid for competitive play because even if you get off the money shot 200 round volley, you're going to massively eat into your play time rolling upward of 600 shooting dice every turn. Not to mention how unwieldy they can be to corral around a table with proper terrain density.

Conscripts are good, don't get me wrong, it's just they are nowhere near the weapon of death and destruction people make them out to be.

They're a tool to screen charges, deny area, and provide anti infantry firepower, that's about it. They're extremely efficient at their job, but conscripts, even with proper support characters, will never win a game on their own. They desperately need support from all the other specialist weapons we have if you want to win any games.

I say this as a guy with over 200 guardsmen who ran at least 2 conscript blobs every game of 7th, trust me on this. The conscript meme is just that, a meme. It's a fun meme, and an efficient meme, but still ultimately a meme. Yes, they can wound knights now and shit like that, but ultimately you are wasting your time if you seriously expect them to be a dedicated monster killing unit.

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Why is Lemun Russ such a faggot?

Whats the best way to run guard veterans? I want to run a list thats invested in infantry but I don't have the models for conscipts.
I was thinking grenade launchers and ML?

>>53771763
Right now it doesnt matter, it might matter when codices arrive and more specific stratagems are released.

>>53771763
Many buffs only apply to specific sub-factions (IE the buff from Priests only affects AM and Ministorum. Later on there'll be faction-specific stratagems that reward more exclusive armies, but we don't have those yet.

>>53771763
The wider faction will let you use a wider variety of models, of course.

Right now doing something more specific like "Astra Militarum" or "Chaos Demons" are strictly to determine which transports can carry what models. Future codexes might reward you for having an entire army composed of one of those more specific factions.

>>53771766
8th is the same, only now it's multiplication and division rather than addition and subtraction.

Someone check my math, but genestealers seem to trade extremely favorably with a conscript/priest/commissar blob.

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>>53771783
Because he's a Space Yiff

>>53771627

Scions are pretty damn good but even they fall before the excel sheet efficiency of massed guardsmen

>This is exactly what commissars did in 7th. You went up to leadership 9, if you passed, you lost no one. If you failed, guess what.

>You lost 1 model.

Except with the loss of pie plates and flamer templates its significantly harder to land enough wounds on a conscript blob to actually kill it the old fashioned way. In 7th the morale check would have been a joke for the 3 guys left standing.

>about the only thing in your favor so far, but that "tax" was a whopping 130 pts of yet more guardsmen and weapons. 30 of those were on a command squad that is your officer now, so you were bringing that anyways as well.

Yeah and if you made 50 conscripts go from 150 points to 280 points in 8th they'd be significantly less ridiculous.

Frankly all conscripts need to be completely balanced in 8th is just to not be able to be ordered.

>realistically they can't now either. It's far more efficient to just bring dedicated anti armor weapons, of which the guard have tons of. You know, like our hideously efficient troops stormtrooper units that don't scatter anymore.

Why not? you can easily hide a cheap platoon commander in a conscript blob and give them their 4 shot rapid fire. Just writing it off as "realistically" isn't going to last if someone actually bothers to bring their bucket of army men and dump it on the table.

>So again, actually learn how guard work before you spout conscript memes.

I really think you should listen to other peoples arguments before immediately dismissing them as you're making light of a real flaw in 8ths system, despite how rare it should prove in real life gameplay.

>>53771793
grenade launchers are the shittiest special weapon we have, plasma and meltas are where it's at, along with a heavy flamer which you can take in addition to the 3 special weapons now.

As for heavy weapons, depends on what you want them to do. Heavy bolters are cheap and not a bad choice if you expect to keep them mobile I guess.

>>53771771
I made this list to counter hordes as well as having some answers to tougher units as well splashed in. Let me know what you think.

<Battalion Detachment>
-HQ-
Illuminor Szeras - Eldritch Lance - 143
Cryptek - Staff of Light - 104

-Troops-
Necron Warriors x19 - 228
Necron Warriors x18 - 216
Necron Warriors x10 - 120

-Dedicated Transport-
Ghost Ark - 170

<Spearhead Detachment>
-HQ-
Anraykyr the Traveler - Warscythe, Tachyon Arrow - 167

-Heavy Support-
Doomsday Ark - 203
Doomsday Ark - 203
Annihilation Barge - Twin Tesla Destructor, Tesla Cannon - 146
Annihilation Barge - Twin Tesla Destructor, Tesla Cannon - 146
Annihilation Barge - Twin Tesla Destructor, Tesla Cannon - 146

Total - 1992
Command Points - 7

>>53771779
Why would anyone bring a titan?
Besides, that's what the lascannon hwts are for.

>>53771779

>somehow corral 50 men into 12" range without getting charged.

fix bayonets and a priest are identical to getting off FRFSRF, charging into a conscript blob isn't necessarily ideal.

>I say this as a guy with over 200 guardsmen who ran at least 2 conscript blobs every game of 7th, trust me on this. The conscript meme is just that, a meme. It's a fun meme, and an efficient meme, but still ultimately a meme. Yes, they can wound knights now and shit like that, but ultimately you are wasting your time if you seriously expect them to be a dedicated monster killing unit.

I encourage you to play him again this edition and you'll notice how much more difficult it is to budge said 200 guardsmen off the table than it was in 7th.

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What DOES guiliman think about a chapter of marines "possibly from heretical genseed" designed to obey the high lordss of terra and enforce their desires on other chapters existing anyway?

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Leave 8th edition to us.

>>53771812

They're one of the better contenders but end up losing after one retreat and a round of shooting.

The issue isn't 50-100 conscripts, its 300-500.

Even old school 3rd edition style tyranids with gaunt mobs are being found to be very difficult to deal with by most MEQ armies.

Ill save you the trouble and tell you the only points efficient way of beating equal points of conscripts is mortars, oddly enough.

>>53771859
>implying he's aware

>>53771352
>banning codexes instead of faggots
your group sounds shit tbqfh lad

>>53771817
battle reports saying they are good have been pretty universal in saying "they do a good job in tying things up and holding things back, but don't kill things fast enough".

Given the amount of complexity involved in play, I'll take case studies of bootstrapped math. Conscripts old things off your killy things, and hold space.

So far the only one I saw saying anything like the chicken little 'conscripts will kill everything' was at 500pts, and he stated that with testing the dice weren't balanced.

>>53771840
>fix bayonets and a priest are identical to getting off FRFSRF
If you get every single one of your 50 guys into range in cc

>>53771837
As someone who has run Doomsday Arks for generations, take then as Ghosts or get doom scythes. Scythes get the same gun but with 8 tesla shots and high movement.

>>53771869
>300-500 conscripts

Even if this was a valid strategy (it isn't), play time rules will nipon the budd.

>>53771896

>Even if this was a valid strategy (it isn't)

you keep saying this as if movement trays don't exist.

As an experienced skaven player will tell you, its completely possible, especially now that we don't have templates to worry about.

>>53771793
I'd say grenade launchers are solid for most situations.
Melta/Plasma Vets in a chimera are also very usefull sometimes, but expensive.


Btw can someone give me a quick rundown on the 8th ed changes for Blast weapons pls?

>>53771757

Power Sword cuts through Armor, Maul gets you more Strength and a little AP, but Taser can get you more hits and chances to do damage.

Maul also damages vehicles more, and seems the middling option, so that seems like an option to take all comers. Taser seems the better option if you have a lot of Taser Goads together so you can rely on numbers to lay out those extra hits and annihilate a charged squad, so they're better on Infiltrators. Power Sword gets you that sweet AP-3, so I'd say take that if your vanguard consistently face high-armor infantry units up close.

>>53771896
Can you even fit that many conscripts into a deployment zone? I'm assuming that there's enough terrain to block at least a decent chunk of your deployment zone.

we should put together a conscript FAQ for these threads

>>53771896

>Even if this was a valid strategy (it isn't)

Why not? Order your conscripts to move 12"+2D6 and get on the objective turn 1, you'll win on score every time now that ties are decided by model count within 6".

>>53771936
I think the the most you can fit is ~900

>>53771914
Movement trays will result in illegal pile and consolidation moves. Also, the shooting phase is going to take three times as long.

>>53771345
Try to cram in another exorcist IMO.

Are axes the best melee option for guard? The +1 S to wound T4 on 4+ SEEMS more versatile than the sword's -3.

Opinions from people who've played?

>>53771936

>300

with room to spare, easily.

>500

it'll be a bit tighter but not impossible.

>>53771957

Conscripts will win on objective every time, marines literally have nothing that can kill enough in time.

>>53771971

Axes are pretty damn good for guard now as they'll wound marines as well as marines with axes wound other marines.

Fists though deserve an honorable mention now that they're quite decently priced.

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>>53771137
>>53771033
>>53771074
>>53771106

Yeah I'll probably run him as a Cpt. and for our Narrative games give him the CM all re-roll not just 1's

>>53771936
>terrain
you begin to see.
The 300+ conscript arguments will have little things.
Like terrain never showing up.
And moving past your own models never being a problem. Or is only an issue of time solved by movement trays, not models blocking each others movement.
and killing off officers not mattering until they kill all officers.
and opponents can't stack buffs or debuffs either.

>>53771840
>50 guys in cqc

with a 1" range band of assault if you're getting all 50 conscripts off you've either charged a land raider or broken some sort of law in space and time.

And even if you did, 200 attacks against say a knight with a 3+ armor save is going to do roughly 3.5 wounds. IF you get all 200 attacks.

pro tip, you will not get all 200 attacks very much.

>>53771839
I was referring to a knight, which is essentially a titan despite other people seemingly claiming it isn't one. Either way I agree, that's what heavy weapons are for, but that guy, and others, often act like conscripts are going to go on a rampage across the board killing every vehicle, monstrous creature, and elite infantry unit in their wake.

>>53772014

bucket tool please for the love of god.

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>>53771137
>>53771148

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marine-Masters-of-the-Chapter

>>53771971
Maul is equal with axe vs meq but is cheaper.

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>>53771971
here's some math-hammer for what its worth

>>53770055
Does Infinity has Tanks and fighter jets?

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>playing against spess muhrines
>dude has land raider and storm raven next to Bobby G
>teammate cripples raven
>I wound LR with meltas
>shoot wounded landraider with melta squad
>manage to kill it
>explodes
>apparently LRs explode violently
>everyone huddled around Bobby G for stupid buffs
>everything within 6" of LR takes d6 mortal wounds
>kill Raven, apothecary, honor guard, 4 into Bobby, 3 into las pred
>mfw

>>53771920
>i have an opinion on these template weapons
>lol how do they even work?

>>53772026

Each and every one of those is a captain.

Space marine captains are assigned a "Master of the *Blank*" title in addition to their normal responsibilities

They are not the one and only chapter master.

>>53772017
Terrain doesn't impede movement, now do like in Fantasy and just have area terrain and move the unit there or just have some models showing where the unit actually is.
It's not hard if you have a brain.

>>53771921
I dunno, they all seem good to me. Anyone know the math between the three versus GEQ MEQ TEQ and I dunno, a Rhino or something?

>>53772014
Sweet lord almighty download GIMP and never use paint again.

>>53772055
>Fantasy and just have area terrain and
but who wants to play that way besides conscript memesters?

>>53771993

How would you deploy your objectives with the way deployments are selected in 8th? I don't ask to be an ass but I am curious since ultimately objectives will matter more than anything else.

>>53772030
Looks like axes are the way to go, if all three are the same points.

>>53771914
if you're playing with proper terrain odds are those movement trays will not be able to legally fit through terrain the way they're supposed to at times. You will also have issues like wheeling a formation around a corner or piling into combat where you will need to break up the formation in order to do the correct legal move for the unit.

I do agree that blasts being gone helps lower the odds of getting punished as a horde player, but few competitive players relied on blasts to clear hordes in previous editions, as you essentially were counting on your opponent to not use proper spacing in order for them to get their best results, or had wyverns, which just broke the damn shooting phase over their knees.

>>53771920
If plasma guns weren't just 2pts more than a grenade launcher, I could see people bringing them, but if my choice is plasma at 7pts or a grenade launcher at 5pts, I'm taking plasma every time. IG has anti infantry weapons out the ass, you need anti heavy things far more in the average unit, especially vets.

>>53772055
>impassible terrain doesn't impede movement.
You don't say?
>physical objects don't impede placing models.
Or do we go full Warmahords now, everything represented by only pieces of felt and thin lines.

Anyone got the mathhammer for Rough Riders lances vs. Special Weapons? Namely the plasmagun.

>>53772090

Sword/Maul is 4 and axe is 5

>>53772090
Axes are a point more expensive.

>>53772090
I'd go with swords to be honest.

>>53772095
Second suggestion fixes this, now stop memeing.

>>53772050
from their website
"To be a Chapter Master is to be a god amongst men. His personal combat prowess is unmatched, for his body is that of a Space Marine, with all the might and endurance that a scion of the Emperor is heir to. Hundreds of years of battlefield experience as a Scout, Space Marine and Captain have taught him every facet of war, trained him in the tools of slaughter and honed his wits to the level of instinct."

>>53771971
I'd go with axes personally since most of my guard have them but all have their uses.

Plus power fists are really good at 10pts in my opinion, I'm actually considering using them again now that GW doesn't think they should cost the same as a space marine fist.

>>53770010
>Yeah but they're all shit.

>Calls other generals shit
>Doesn't have 40kg in the title
>Fake Duncan

It's going now so whatever, but fuck.

>>53772124

Infamous copy paste error.

If you read the rest you'll note that:

>On occasion, when the might of the Chapter is drawn up in a single confrontation, the headquarters staff will fight together as one, near-unstoppable squad with an unrivalled mix of tactical acumen, advanced weaponry and elite weaponry.

>Between these four warriors, the Masters of the Chapter can deal with pretty much anything that the enemy throws at them. Each Master adds a different strategic asset to your army, ranging from the sneaky Ambush stratagem to the less-than-subtle Orbital Bombardment. Combine these special rules with the fact that they are all formidable warriors in their own right, and you've got a formation that your opponents will quickly learn to fear.

They're captains of the battle companies, in fact for ultramarines they're even named. There is no other current chapter master of the ultramarines besides Marneus Calgar.

>>53772117
>I can totally fit 50 models in this area, as it's the same size as the area where I can fit 50 models if it's empty.
No, there are things there, if you can't put the models there, they can't go there.
If it's just for saving time, and wobbily model, of course people are fine.
If their are things there that you can't fit models in, then you can't have models in.

>>53772046
The grenade lucher is good for most situations cause you can choose between frag or krakgrenades. And it's cheap.
Has not much to do with the Blast rules.

But pls enlight me with your wisdom

>>53772124
>>53772050
Not disagreeing with you per se, just that you could use the said models as a homebrew chapter master

>>53772124

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Master_(Space_Marine)

>>53772142
Yeah, I just finished reading and realize I posted prematurely, I do most things prematurely so it's not that shocking. my bad.

>>53772055
terrain will affect how you can set up a movement tray though, which means you either move your trays with the terrain in mind, take the models off the trays (defeating the purpose) or try to game the system for extra movement so you can place your trays.

Most clubs I've been to do not use much area terrain that a proper movement tray could fit into, I think it'll be a bigger problem than some realise. There's a reason many guard players didn't bother with movement trays in previous editions, and it wasn't just spacing. There's a lot of really annoying little things that happen with trays that you don't realize until you've attempted to use them in a game.

File: 70728_sm-20 man tray.jpg (55KB, 600x401px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 600x401px

>y-you can't have trays that's illegal! You have to move your models individually, it doesn't matter if there's over 100!
Stop being so autistic people.

>>53771730
My mind totally farted regarding detachment!

Maybe I will just drop a Dominion and replace them with another BSS with even more flamers. Lucky for me I kept the Heavy flamers for the immolators.

>>53771970
I can't physically fit another, since I only have 3.
I could proxy 2 more with Repressors

>>53772155

You can do such with any of the numerous captain models in the game. That doesn't really change the fact that generic chapter masters had no model and were nearly identical to captains in the first place.

>>53772181

No conscripts are unrealistic because reasons and I am not going to address the fact that space marines are literally incapable of killing their points worth in conscripts in a game.

>>53772148
The only reason they aren't there is because they don't fit or can't be balanced. But they can still be there as per the rules.

>>53770028
At least you finally got plastic SoB.

jesus tittyfucking christ, scions are cheap!

And you can do mad combos with them. Straight out of the SC! box:

Vanguard - 304

Tempestor Prime - 45
Command Rod, Axe

2x Command Squad - 128
4x Plasma

Commissar - 35
Axe

Taurox Prime - 96

The Prime tells both squads to re-roll 1's to hit and bam, you're rocking 8 overcharged plasma guns in Rapid Fire range as soon as they jump out of the Taurox, with a Commissar making sure they don't run away when return fire hits.

>>53772193
>but my marines
Go whine to gw.

>>53772221

Scions are unironically great and are a sleeper hit with 8th, full/nearly-full scion armies are completely viable and fuck as fuck.

>>53772181
>get into combat
>can't use tray anymore
>get out of combat
>have to reshuffle onto tray
kek

Sigh. Everyone's talking about hoe to eauip their guard and scions with hidden power weapons

And I'm just sitting here with my genecult, figuring out how to justify my 16-point power pick.

>>53772240
Justify it with your ultrafast genestealers, dude. You've got literally the best per-point CC unit in the game, you've got to tone it down somehow.

>>53772229
>and fuck as fuck

What did he mean by this, /tg/?

File: 2000 SoB Batallion.png (48KB, 1285x435px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 1285x435px

>>53772190
There we go Battalion detachment 1991.
Shame I could not do 1997

>>53772209
kek

>>53772248

Well, I meant to write "Fun as fuck" but yeah they're pretty Fuck as Fuck too.

>>53772246
purestrains are 18-points bruh.

>>53772230
Keep them in tray. Retard.

>>53772282

If they stay in the tray in CC you're getting a fraction of your possible attacks.

>>53772294
>what are magnet sheets

What's the best way of adding psychic capabilities to an AdMech army?

>>53772282
Literlaly not possible. You MUST pile in.

I wish the cool chaos shit wasn't so fucking expensive

>Landraider $76
>Helldrake $74
>Forge/Maulerfiend $68
>Defiler $66
>Vindicator/Predator $58
>Hellbrute (with options and poses) $54

Shit, fucking bikers are $40 for THREE DUDES when 5 raptors/talons is a dual kit for $35

>>53772195
>don't fit
>there as per rules
No, if they don't fit so they can't be there.
Wobbly model rule says if they can't be balanced you can represent them. It doesn't say if you can't fit the base in the area you still count as being there.
There are places on the board models can't be because other things are there.

>>53772305

What does that have to do with anything? If you don't pull them off the tray to pile in you cannot get within 1" of a model that is in B2B to fight.

>>53772312

Incorrect you MAY pile in.

>>53772294
And you can't go over terrain, and I will MAKE you remove that tray by moving models onto it. Welcome to DC land, get out of the tourney with your weird illegal non-model fucking up the game.

>>53772312
Pile in move is optional.

>>53772306
Don't need psychic capabilities, add more Beep Boops or Shing Zap Pop Fizzle!

>>53772312
>put plasticard to side of tray, or just make tray wider to begin with
>or have it be many smaller trays
Your lack of creativity is worrying.

Dumb question, I'm putting together a detachment and I need to take units all from the same Faction (IG), can I throw an inquisitor or a marine or something in there since they will still have the Imperium keyword, or are they supposed to play in the same army but as separate detachments?

>>53772326
I'm sorry let me clarify.
If you can't fit THE BASE it can't be there.

arms and legs running into each other is one thing. If there is only room for 12 bases scattered among that terrain, you can't say there are 25 models there.

>>53772322

15% off on most online stores, 20% free shipping easily achievable on ebay.

>>53772306

Space marine librarians are great for null zone, which takes away enemy invul saves.

Primaris psykers have a decent psychic attack for being 30 fucking points.

>>53772326
Area terrain my man, area terrain.
Put some tack or magnetize and place on top.

>>53772343

As long as they all say Imperium, its A-okay to be in the same detachment.

>>53772354

Like I'm going to let you put your movement tray on top of terrain instead of forcing you to remove them and place them in the terrain. Kek - faggot.

>>53772349

That's doesn't help, actually, especially since bikes are still so much more for so little. Also, Helldrakes are more expensive than forgeworld Hellblades.

>>53772365
>meme tang clan
Next you'll say you can take more than one Celestine.

>>53770010
So, you can bring all imperials together? Kataphrons with Conscripts, is that the new allies chart or something?

>>53772329
Imagine being this autistic thinking you can MAKE someone do something

>>53772327
You have no idea how magnets work do you?

Picture a sheet of paper. That is the magnet, you can move your models that have some metal or own magnet freely on top of the sheet.

>but you wont have enough and so many different shapes!

The bloody things are cheap as fuck, if you are running the retarded Conscript list you can afford to cut the magnet sheets on spot to fit the situation.

>>53772381
>Allies chart

Doesn't exist.
Imperium with Imperium, Chaos to Chaos, Aeldari to Aeldari, Genestealer Cult to Nids and IG, everyone else gets no allies.

>>53772377

You don't choose Imperium, Imperium chooses you.

>>53772370

Yeah until VAT and shipping add another 20 GBP, ugh.

>>53772381

There's no allies chart, all Imperium can be in the same army. Full stop.

Same with Eldar and Tyranids (with their own sub factions)

>>53772354
>>53772367
So we're only using terrain like that now.
Going full Warmahoards, everything is just pieces of felt.

Now I see, 300+ conscripts totally works in 40k games, so long as we don't set up tables like 40k games.
And I'm guess your opponent doesn't try to do any 40k type nonsense and just piles shots straight back, so mathhammer is a perfect mathmatical model.

8th ed is totally broken, when you set it up like that. Must be a problem with 8th ed.

>>53772405
Can't you just bring two detachments with different faction?

Like one is Imperium and the other is Chaos

>>53772394

No you don't understand, just because you can move them forward at some point you will run out of tray. The tray will be a shape and at some point if you want them to stay on the tray they will be limited by the shape of the tray. I mean you do understand that the idea of the tray is to simplify movement but if you're still shuffling the models around you've lost all the speed. And if the tray is a square that means you can only go so far as its edges and still be on the tray.

I don't understand how you think fucking magnets will some how allow you to pile all your models in effectively. Certainly you can move some of them forward on the tray but there is - by its nature - a limit to the space in the front the models can occupy on the tray.

>>53772377

That's fucking wrong though. As long as they all share a keyword (which Imperial is) then they can be in the same army. It doesn't require any fucking meme shit to make work its just the way the rules work.

>>53772381
You can, but admech will lose canticles if anything in the detachment doesn't have it.

>>53772438
No

>>53772438
Not in matched play, everything in the army has to share a faction.

>>53772438

Not in matched play no.

>>53772432

If we're not playing with real terrain I'm not playing. If the only way you can fit your conscript spam guard army on the table is to abstract terrain to the point of felt and lines you don't get to play games and fortunately tournaments play with real 3D terrain as well.