/ore/ One Roll Engine General

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Link to previous thread
>>53730295
Here is what we have for now fot the Persona homebrew. What we need now:
>Velvet Room section (GM section)
>Worldbuilding advise and rules
>Shadow rules and examples
>Attack examples (with their elements) and Arcana especific abilities
>Persona examples
>One-More, Hold Up and All Out Attacks
>Maybe an examble adventure
Something more?

Oh hey someone beat me to it.

Alright let's do this one with feeling. There were like two /ore threads that went up and down over the weekend and it makes me sad that I couldn't work on anything during that time.

This week I'm going to assemble the Combat Chapter. It should be quick and easy since it's not a huge departure from MaOCT-- all that we're really doing is adding weapons for Persona Users (which I'd say allows them to actually damage Shadows, though it's still not a great idea), One-More, etc...

I'm going to say that we DON'T need a complex system of Buffs like you'd see in actual SMT games, because MaOCT is built around feeding Relationships to your Monsters to give boosts. Here we'd be be using that as a combined system of Arcana Boosts (since the better your relationship with someone, the more dice you get) and Buffs (since more dice = more better). Pretty easy stuff.

>>53762039
about combat mechanics isnt there any other /ore/ game with weapons and stuff that can help us? I didnt read any other core book from the ORE line but maybe someone that knows more about this can help us.
Also making a thread where people just post their homebrew Personas (or actual Personas in games made in our system) will make this more appealing to people and yje thread shouldnt die.

>>53762366
Weapons for this should be even easier than in other /ore/ games; to me all they'd do is allow someone to inflict Scars instead of Shock with an attack. The exact nature of the weapon isn't important. Across the games you've got people who attacked with swords, spears, guns, kicking, folding chairs, throwing razors, coins, fans, etc... There's no need to stat them out individually, just provide a framework for what they can do.

Also I'm working on a character and a Persona right now to post.

(I'd almost wonder if having a totally separate thread for the Persona mod vs one for /ore/ in general would be a good idea)

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>>53762366
>I didnt read any other core book from the ORE line but maybe someone that knows more about this can help us.
There is this, which I'd suggest using piecemeal at most anyway.

>>53762515
>(I'd almost wonder if having a totally separate thread for the Persona mod vs one for /ore/ in general would be a good idea)
I don't think the general would survive on its own if projects split off. There's not enough interest right now. That might be good or bad (I've meant to get to work on some projects, but I'm snowed under with work until the end of the week).

MARTIN BAXTER
Arcana: The Moon
Persona: Barbicane

>BIO: A scrawny, nerdy kid who's been picked on since childhood. When his family moved into town the summer before his freshman year at high school, Martin worked up the courage to investigate the spooky Weiss Mansion, where he met and made strange friends with "Doc" Helmut Weiss, a "mad" scientist by most estimations. At school, Martin hasn't had much more success at making friends, though he's been able to strike up the beginnings of a friendship with Mel Grant, his lab partner. Still, he often finds himself retreating into his sci-fi collection, dreaming of a world other than his own where he belongs.

DILIGENCE. . . . . . .1d (Block 2d, P.E. 1d)
GUTS. . . . . . . . . . . .2d (Courage 2d)
PROFICIENCY. . . . .3d (Shop 1d, Reflex 2d)
BRAINS. . . . . . . . . .4d (Academics 3d, Out-think 2d, Notice 1d)
FACE. . . . . . . . . . . .3d (Charm 1d)

RELATIONSHIPS
Doc Weiss 3d (Magician)- Eccentric scientist down the street
Science-Fiction 2d (Hermit)- Vast collection of books, comics and films
Mel Grant 1d (High Priestess)- Over-achieving lab partner

>>53762896
1-2. . . . . Explorer's Suitcase 7d
>Defends, Useful (scientific equipment and explosives), Tough x2
3. . . . .President's Cane 5d
>Attacks(Ice)
4-6. . . . Artillery Vest 8d
>Attacks, Spray, Gnarly x1, Tough x2, Useful (distracting fireworks), Awesome x2
7. . . . . . .Telescope Eyes 5d
>Useful (See extreme distances)
8-10. . . .Columbiad Hat 9d
>Attacks(Fire), Awesome x1, Gnarly x2, Area x2, Tough x2

>>53762922
Woops, only copied Barbicane's Locations, not the rest of him.

BARBICANE
Arcana: The Moon

ORIGIN: Impey Barbicane is the president of the Baltimore Gun Club in Jules Verne's "From the Earth to the Moon." It's his vision to construct an enourmous cannon capable of launching a manned space capsule to the Moon.

APPEARANCE: Barbicane appears as an immense, half-robotic fusion of man and artillery, dressed in a tuxedo whose cumberbund bristles with gun barrels. The Gun Club's moon-shooting Columbiad Cannon adorns Barbicane's head where it doubles as a tall stove-pipe hat. In one hand he carries a gentleman's cane topped with a globe of the Moon, which he frequently ponders over, and in the other hand he carries a hefty suitcase full of scientific equipment. And explosives.

FAVORITE THING: Rocketry, especially launching strange and experimental things into the stratosphere.
EVOCATION: Martin calls on Barbicane by cracking open his 1st Edition copy of the novel where he originated.

RESIST: Fire
WEAK: Dark
W
HIT LOCATIONS

1-2. . . . . Explorer's Suitcase 7d
>Defends, Useful (scientific equipment and explosives), Tough x2
3. . . . .President's Cane 5d
>Attacks(Ice)
4-6. . . . Artillery Vest 8d
>Attacks, Spray, Gnarly x1, Tough x2, Useful (distracting fireworks), Awesome x2
7. . . . . . .Telescope Eyes 5d
>Useful (See extreme distances)
8-10. . . .Columbiad Hat 9d
>Attacks(Fire), Awesome x1, Gnarly x2, Area x2, Tough x2

>>53761955
>guts
>not courage
Is this a Persona 5 thing?

>>53763053
Yeah, they call it Guts in P5.

Let's get some Wild Talents talk going too up in here.

1. How's your campaign going?

2. Wild Talents has a dearth of published one shots, which is sort of a problem for people getting into it. We talked a little bit a few threads ago about prospective WT One Shots, so let's bring it up again. How would you approach a WT one-shot?

3. Do you use any home-brewed subsystems in your game?

4. Let's share some more powers and miracle equipment

5. Any newcomers to the system, feel free to ask questions about how to do stuff or make stuff work. In my opinion this thread is the best when we're helping people grasp the basics of the ORE and see why it's such a cool system.

Does ORE emulate OWoD stuff well? I've been thinking of trying it out with Mage

>>53763612
>3. Do you use any home-brewed subsystems in your game?

There are a couple systems that my group uses fairly regularly and one that I'm working on right now.

First is a system for simulating parties, galas, clubs, etc... You put together a 1-10 list like this one that I used for a recent session (it's a spot crude since I sketched it out in like 5 minutes for a midnight party at a downtown hub)

1- Crazy partiers
2- Drug Offer
3- Stumbling into a fight
4- Coming onto
5- Rumors
6- Actual Intel
7- Invited to a store
8- Rumors
9- Gang stuff
0- Close call with exposure

Then you roll some dice based on how crowded the area you're in; if you're on the edge of the crowd you roll like 5d, whereas if you're in the thick of it you could roll around 10d.

Your matched Sets tell you what is happening TO you, while your Loose dice say what's happening around you. Width tells you how intense the interaction is, and potentially how much Width you'd need to roll to escape or defuse it.

So someone trying to avoid attention rolls 5d and gets a 2x3, then we describe it as him walking past an alleyway where a couple of drunk guys are slugging it out. If he managed to get a more intense 3x3, then it could be a real nasty beat down.

Someone in the middle of the crowd, meanwhile, rolls a 2x2, a 3x7 and a 2x9-- drug offer, invited into a store and gang activity. These could be interpreted as separate events, OR they could be a single event: the character gets lured or swept into a head-shop by someone linked to one of the city's major gangs.

>>53763774
Probably though I'm not familiar with any direct mods of it. I know that there's a ORE Exalted conversion which uses Storyteller, and anecdotally Greg Stolze invented the ORE after working with oWoD and brainstorming about its resolution system, so they're blood related.

>>53764038
>Exalted
Solar! uuaaaAHH!
Fighter of Abyssal, uuaaaAHH!
Champion of the Sun, uuaaaAHH!
You're a Master of Karate,
And Friendship- For Everyone!!

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So thoughts concerning Persona combat, One-More and All Out Attacks.

>They should be included...
The vast majority of Persona players coming into this game are going to expect these mechanics to be a part of the combat engine in one form or another. They're as much a part of the game as Social Links.

>...but they're super broken as-is...
The whole point of One-More and All Out Attacks is that by paying attention to your enemies and building your party correctly, you can pretty much trivialize most fights you come across. This is great when combat ends in 12 seconds, but that's not going to happen in a tabletop game.The last thing we want to do is to have every fight boil down to the same repetitious actions that leads to a total route of the enemies. It's boring and poor game design.

>...so they need to be modified
Here's how I'm looking at it:

1. Whenever you hit an enemy's Elemental Weakness, you have an opportunity to use One More Set that you rolled. If you don't roll another Set, then you don't get to take advantage of this system, which makes fights more dynamic and less predictable.

2. Your One More Set can be used for one of the following actions:

2a. You can use it to launch a second attack against another enemy on the field

2b. You can use it to Knock Down the guy you just hit for Width-1 Rounds. Knocked Down enemies lose 1d from their roll unless they spend an entire turn righting themselves.

3. If all the enemies on the field are Knocked Down, the players can make an immediate All Out Attack. They do this by creating a dice pool of 1d for each player and adding everyone's Beat-Down dice. One player then rolls this pool (whoever declared the All Out Attack) and the players narrate how they wreck the enemies, with each Set rolled going to a different target.

>>53761825
>OP pic doesn't have Maya in it
bad fucking post there buddy

So, Shadows.

I'm thinking that shadows should be divided into two categories: Minor and Major.

Minor Shadows are your Jack Frosts, Pixies, Succubi and the like. The stuff you'd fight in a random encounter in a Persona game. Alternately you can go the Persona 3-4 route and have these things be weird abstract stuff like tanks and giant floating mouths. Either way they represent basic negative thoughts, emotions and mental conditions.

Major Shadows are suited to be boss and minibosses for dungeons, palaces or whatever your game's world is built from. They are more complex because they represent the specific problems, fear and issues that people have.

A Minor Shadow has a single dice pool where all its qualities are located. This means that Minor Shadows are only good at one or two things, but fights against them are designed for you to have to contend with more than one at once. A Minor Shadow has a Point Cost which tells you the total cost of its dice pool, as a sum of its actual dice and extras. A Minor Shadow's Arcana also gives it one free Extra

So Jack Frost could look like this:

Jack Frost (6 pt Magician). . . . . . . .5d
>Attacks (Ice, *Fire*), Useful (icy tricks)
Resist: Ice, Weak: Fire

It's total point cost is 6: 5 for its dice pool plus one for a Useful Quality. Since Jack Frost is a Magician it gets a free Element extra (indicated by the * * around Fire), allowing it to attack with a second element. It can't defend or heal itself but it's a decently varied attacker. Any attack aimed at Jack Frost will sap its 5d pool, so it's pretty weak.

In contrast, Major Shadows are built like Personas, with a full array of hit locations and dice. That allows the GM to custom tailor them to the person that spawns them.

How does that look?

>>53763612
>4. Let's share some more powers and miracle equipment
Here are a couple pieces I put together for a character named Tox. She's basically a Plague Doctor from Darkest Dungeon, complete with the beak mask. Previously her weapons were a pair of pistols that fired capsules full of fugu poison that would knock guys out after three rounds, but we found that it was leading her towards a very passive play-style (fugu a dude, then avoid his attacks until it went off), and if the target passed his Endurance Check it made the whole thing meaningless.

Instead we cooked up these, which make her even MORE of a plague doctor.

Nightshade Rifle 8d+wd (1 pt per die; 12 pts)
>Attacks Extras and Flaws [Attached-2 (Toxicology), Duration+2, Limited Damage-1, Focus-1, Depleted-2] Capacity: Range
Effect: Tox’s Nightshade Rifle is a gas powered hypodermic needle gun loaded with a supply of poison rendered from deadly Belladona toxin. Before each shot, Tox must make a Toxicology roll to configure the dosage, which is done with a very precise dial on the rifle’s side.

A successful Set inflicts 2 Killing to the target location (regardless of the Width rolled). On each roll that follows, the target takes 2 Shock to his Torso until he makes an Endurance roll at a difficulty of 5.

The Nightshade Rifle comes with a supply of 12 darts.

Aspirin Grenades 7d (4 pts per die; 28 pts)
>Attacks Extras and Flaws [Daze+2, Area+3, Focus-1, Depleted-2, Radius+2, if/then-1(requires inhalation or skin contact, if/then-1 (damage is from Area only)] Capacity: Range
Effect: Tox’s “Aspirin” Grenades are vials of pressurized salicylic acid. They explode when thrown, drenching anyone in a 10-foot radius with the stuff. The only damage is caused by the grenade’s Area 3 Killing effect, but the acid’s effect induces nausea and disorientation, Dazing her targets for Width in Rounds.

Tox normally carries a supply of 7 Aspirin Grenades.

>>53764417
>>53765649
I like both Shadows and All Out Attack. Not sure about One More

>>53766715
What are you thinking about One More? Too unpredictable?

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Here's the Preface to the combat chapter. I wanted to write something that would help people who were only really familiar with Persona to understand how combat is going to play out if they're brand new to tabletop games, since it could potentially be a huge swing going from the video games.

>>53767559
So here are the basic points we need to hit for the combat section:

1. Character and Persona Attacks
2. Weapons
3. Elemental Warfare
4. One-More, Hold Up and All-Out Attacks
5. Useful Buffs and Debuffs

How does that read? Anything we're obviously missing?

>>53767559
This is good
>>53768655
Are we gonna make all the Persona usual attacks? It should be simple. Adding dice every stronger stage of the Power.
Also I wanted yo add some Arcana specific abilities that should differenciate every Arcana a little more. Or maybe powers that are "stronger against X Arcana but weaker against Y Arcana and has an extra effect against Z Arcana"

>>53769251
I am guessing Arcana unique abilities os better since the Arcana weakness and strenght feature depends in encountering enemies of certain arcana something that can never happen since there are 22 arcanas

>>53769387
Maybe something like: Magician has 1 extra dice in the beggining for an elemental attack and 1 more dice foro the same each time he gets so much stronger

>>53769435
Or having abilities that cant be normaly used for Battle. I was thinking since the beggining that The World Personas can interact with the physical World normaly. Maybe the Fool Arcana can act as one Arcana that he wants once a day irá different one each day (with the exception of the World that maaybe can also have a stronger versión oficial this ability. The Justice Arcana maybe can know when someone is lying or breaking an specific Code of rules that your social link Justice Guy has. Maybe the Tower can being "bad Luck" to someone or smell when something bad is happens. Maybe Lovers can make someone like someone else for a day or know what soemeone feels for you. And so on and so on.

>>53769251
>Are we gonna make all the Persona usual attacks?
I wasn't planning on it, because I'm not really sure it adds much. Skullcracker is better than Lunge so why bother with Lunge at all? Those kind of gradually improved skills don't really fit into tabletop games. The idea of "Better Ice Magic" or "Better Physical Attack" is captured by the use of Gnarly on your Persona's attack Qualities in the first place, and you can boost them further by feeding Relationship Arcana to your Persona (giving you bonus dice and/or bonus Extras depending on the Arcana).

>>53769387
The basic idea I have is that since we have 20 regular Arcana and 10 Extras that are relevant to combat (ignoring Awesome which is The Best Extra and therefore excluded from the list), each Extra is attached to two Arcana. So Wicked Fast could be linked with, say, The Chariot and Fortune, while Gnarly is linked to The Emperor and The Tower, as examples. These influence both Shadows (Shadows get a free Extra based on their Arcana) and Personas (Personas can get a single use of an Extra by eating Arcana linked to it).

>>53769865
This is an interesting idea but generally would be governed by a Persona's useful abilities. It's worth discussing though.

>>53770446
It should be a free Useful ability. One that is not combat centerer. I think It should be in the manual at least as a optional rule (well, all rules in all tabletop rpgs are optional)

>>53763774
The Nain splat Stolze wrote for Reign has a more freeform magic style that could be adapted to Mage. It's not the same but had a similar feel to me and feels like iy could convert fairly easy.

>>53763612
1. on hiatus currently since everyone is busy for the foreseeable future
2. I have an entire setting full of places and characters I will likely never use, but for non setting specific one shots, you're part of the cops/heroes, you're on patrol, it's a bad night. cue string of fights/mysteries.

3. A ton actually. the big ones are having broad pre-established archetypes, and powers based on your characters unconscious desires/fears.

4. I could stat try stating my party from memory? Or the "loot" powers I use?

>>53763899
very cool! would you mind if i used this?>>53765649
what would a major shadow look like?>>53766215
something about this is setting off alarms in my head, but I honestly can't think of anything I honestly object to here.

It's still very cool, thank you for sharing

>>53770878
>what would a major shadow look like?
either one of the arcana shadows from P3 or an "I'm you" shadow from P4.
Basically, a "boss".

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>>53770878
In Persona 5, the Shadows of the heroes took forms based on their personas. Likewise in 5, a lot of people's shadows take the form of personas/demons.

A Major Shadow's probably a Persona that's become twisted through something. Often by belonging to someone without any Social Links/Relationships. The lack of any connections to others has led the Persona to effectively take over. Their favorite thing has become a driving urge.

This can lead to physical mutation, or the Shadow assuming their user's form, or a mixture of the two.

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>>53771603
Er, I meant Persona 4 for that first one.

>>53771603
Maybe if one of your Personas (if you have more than one) is killed off (having one of your body parts and one of his adjacents without dice) then It becomes a Shadow and the only way yo retrieve It is to make your Social Link better again and defeating the Shadow.

>>53770878
A Major Shadow is any kind of boss monster, including the Arcana Shadows from Persona 3, the character Shadows from Persona 4 and the Deadly Sin Shadows from Persona 5, as well as any kind of unique boss, miniboss or enemy in general that the GM wants to cook up to menace the players.

>>53770756
Can you elaborate on "loot" powers?

>>53763053
The fact MaOCT already has guts as a stat probably tipped the scales that way.

An interesting thing to keep in mind and that I think people forget because MaOCT doesn't get enough play is that Guts is the hit location with the biggest range of numbers, so it's your main damage buffer, of sorts

>>53772368
Yeah it works nicely for combat in that the most likely way a conflict will end is that you either socked a guy in the stomach hard enough to knock him flat, or you intimidated him enough that he loses the will to fight. Both of which are guts. It's very elegant.

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Look what I found

>>53772307
ah right sorry.

loot powers would be things like vials of mutagen, or borderlands style shield generators.

technically speaking, they're miracles/hyperstats in a form that can be found/interacted with in the game world.

the example i used last time was a mutagen that granted a small healing factor/limb regen upon consumption, but carried the risk of causing physical deformations

>>53773282
is that the one we made?

>>53775199
Is am old one from /tg/ A group is going to play It near me.It is too videogaming foro muy taste.

>>53778420
>>53773282
Yeah this is pretty much "We copied the numbers from Persona 4 directly and added a d6 roll to them". There's also a lot of unnecessary cruft too, like a lengthy Merits and Flaws list (4 pages of them, including stuff like being Multi-Lingual and having an Addiction) and a Social Link Ranking system pulled directly from the game without really paying much attention to how it would work on the table. It's an interesting piece but I think what we're building will be better (if only by virtue of being an adaptation of a working system).

>>53770878
>very cool! would you mind if i used this?
Sure thing! It's a great way to run scenarios that will surprise even the GM, and it cuts down on the amount of prep-work he needs to do since the dice helps you along.

>something about this is setting off alarms in my head, but I honestly can't think of anything I honestly object to here.
It could be how I interpreted Limited Damage; in the RAW the rules say that you choose to inflict either Shock or Killing, not Both as an Attacks quality would normally have. The way my group uses it is just to say "this attack deals less damage than it normally does."

So, Combat.

In MaOCT, the expectation is that Kids and Monsters fight alongside each other, with Monsters ripping and tearing each other apart while the Kids sling insults, encouragement and insight.

That's not exactly how it works in Persona, and I'm thinking it should be changed for a couple of reasons.

First is that by having Personas and Users acting independently, you're doubling the number of actions everyone needs to manage, which slows down combat significantly.

Secondly, it's more true to the source material. In the games you choose whether you or your Persona will attack during your turn

Third, it makes sense with for the theme of Persona itself. Your Persona is your armor and sword against the unknown and harmful, so it acts in your behalf to protect you.

Here, then is the idea:

On your turn you can choose either to have your Persona User do a thing, or Evoke the Persona and have it perform an action. Here's the important part: whichever action you choose determines who your enemy can target. If your Persona attacks, then it's making itself a target for the enemy. If your User acts, then he or she becomes the target.

Naturally this makes acting with your Persona the preferred move, but that's true for the games as well. Most of the time you want to be attacking with your Persona, not with your party directly, but there are edge cases that make it worth the risk.

What do we think about this?

>>53761955
As an outsider, would it not make sense to combine the Arcana sections? Make them describe how the Arcana applies to people and Persona, and how to use them in your plots.

>>53780652
That's something I floated back in a previous thread but the general preferenced seemed to be keeping the Arcana relevant for each section in those sections, since it means you can read the book clear through to get a strong understanding of the elements at play. But nothing is set in stone yet.

>>53779266
i think that may have been it, but that's still a pretty valid interpretation of it i think

Here's another Persona character I whipped up while waiting for Nintendo's E3 show:

HUDSON POOLE
Arcana: The Emperor
Persona: Gilgamesh

>BIO: The half-black, half-caucasian son of a chef and a doctor, Hudson is a charismatic punk of a kid who's a thorn in both parent's side. His stubborn refusal to stick to the Lifeplan for Success that his parents laid out for him has resulted in his being transferred to a new school for a "fresh start", which he rapidly squandered, in their eyes, by immediately forming a punk rock band with a squdron of underachievers from his automotive maintainence class.

DILIGENCE. . . . . . .3d (Beat-Down 1d, P.E 1d, Block 1d)
GUTS. . . . . . . . . . . .3d (Courage 1d, Fighting 2d)
PROFICIENCY. . . . .3d (Shop 1d, Guitar 2d)
BRAINS. . . . . . . . . .2d (Academics 1d, Notice 1d)
FACE. . . . . . . . . . . .4d (Charm 2d, Connive 1d, Put-Down 1d)

RELATIONSHIPS
Lancet 2d (Star)- Hudson's punk/hip-hop fusion band
Francis Poole 2d (Hanged Man)- Hudson's Dad, who works himself to the bone at his hospital
Nadiya Poole 2d (Lovers)- Hudson's Mom, who's had to make tough choices to keep the family together

>>53780022
Yeah. I like that for the most part. But how would evoking work? Your Persona stays for the duration of the whole round? Or maybe for as long you want? Also what edge should using your own character have? Maybe Personas cant be evoked outside the Shadow World (unless veryn strong, or the World Arcana, or both, or neither). Maybe Personas cant interact with things that doesnt have a concious (like people, Personas, Shadows and some animals). Maybe Personas arent as strong against non-Shadow/non-Personas (have a dice or 2 less).
Also should we make the game more mortal than MaoCT? The base game is nor very mortal at all and maybe for the kind of adventures one would want to do in a Persona game there must have some kind of real danger/difficulty. Not very mortal, just enough to make it feel more challenging.

>>53781623
GILGAMESH
Arcana: The Emperor

ORIGIN: Gilgamesh is the titular hero of the Epic of Gilgamesh, an ancient Sumerian poem. The brutal, tempermental king of Uruk, the Epic tells of how Gilgamesh's wrath is tempered and he learns to be a civilized ruler.

APPEARANCE: Gilgamesh is a towering figure of stone, flesh and greenish metal riding atop a horned lion. He has four arms: one holds a stone tablet bearing his epic, another a mace that doubles as a microphone, and the last two cradle a sick double-necked bass guitar. Gilgamesh wears a golden crown containing the wild man (and Gilgamesh's closest friend) Enkidu.

FAVORITE THING: Breaking things
EVOCATION: Hudson summons Gilgamesh by strumming out a face-melting lick on his guitar.

RESIST: Earth
WEAK: Water

HIT LOCATIONS

1-2. . . . . . Royal Horned Lion 7d
>Useful (roaring beast), Defends, Attacks, Gnarly x1
3-4 . . . . . Epic Slab 7d
>Defends, Tough x2, Bounce
5 . . . . . . . Noisy Mace 4d
>Attacks (Earth), Useful (voice applification)
6-8 . . . . . Double Bass Guitar 8d
>Attacks (Electric), Awesome x2, Useful (irresistable bass), Sweet, Gnarly x2, Tough x1
9-10. . . . . Crown of Uruk 8d
>Useful (Enkidu's cage), Tough x2

>>53781725
Evoking is purely a flavor thing, as well as potentially a mechanical aspect if you need some object to perform it (as in the example I posted, if Hudson doesn't have his guitar he can't Evoke Gilgamesh). You don't need to perform a separate action to Evoke a Persona, it's part of commanding it to do a thing. As long as your Persona is out there doing stuff, it's Evoked, but if you don't command it then it vanishes.

Doing other stuff while also Evoking your Persona to act requires Multiple Actions-- so it can be done, it's just harder.

Whether you can use your Personas outside of the Shadow World (or whatever) is pretty much up to the GM, since it varies by game. In Personas 1 and 2 there was no separate Shadow world, so Personas could influence the real world directly. In Persona 3 it's kind of ambiguous, since at least the Strega chick was imperiled by her own Persona. Persona 4 and 5 were much stricter in that regard.

The main advantages that a User has over his or her Persona is that they are a tiny, fleshy human instead of a giant glowing god, so there are places and things they can do that a Persona might not be able to. On top of that, in the MaOCT RAW, Monsters kind of have one-track minds and can't comprehend things like Toilets and Cars. Similar a Persona isn't super capable of doing much outside of what his Useful Qualities allow him to do, or at least not very well. An actual human character has a lot more flexibility in that respect.

Take the Asmodeus fight in Persona 5. At a certain point you can send one of your party members off to steal the Treasure while the others distract the boss. It works because the party member is small and easily missed, instead of being a giant floating ghost pirate.

Does that make sense?

So a game question:
Should players all choose a joint theme for their personas? Such as 3's Greek Mythology, 4's Japanese Mythology, or 5's Thieves?

And other than mythoses, what would make good themes for teams?

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I added a second page to the Combat section covering the major way that the module is streamlining combat, as I laid out in this post here. It's the last bit of expository text I'm going to write for the Combat section before we get into actual rules for playing. I hope it's not too self-indulgent but I think it's important for establishing the feel of the game.

>>53784182
I'd say that's ideal but in no way required. Firstly because it's not likely that everyone playing the game will have the same cultural points of reference or knowledge, and second because a Persona should be meaningful to its user, and requiring that someone choose a figure that player doesn't really know anything about is a burden on roleplaying.

Of course if everyone's totally in on it then that's awesome.

As for alternate themes, I think Literary figures is definitely a good way to go. I loved how Persona 5 threw open those doors and I'm sure that a lot of players would probably find themselves leaning in that direction.

Is the Wild Talents GM running the superhero academy thread still around? I'd love to hear about that.

Also the MaOCT guy doing the Horror Monsters at Catholic School game too.

>>53782505
Maybe. But I dont know. I think normal people should have a mechanic that gives them some sort of small edge in combat. Like something that wont come out very often but that will.
>>53784421
Great. And I love you adding the fighting for everyone's souls section.

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>>53785888
>Like something that wont come out very often but that will.

That's kind of covered in the Physical Damage types sidebar that I just wrote up for the Weapons rules for the Combat section. Check'em

>>53786491
Yeah. I like that. But why a player would want to be weak against a physical attack when there is no real reason to be resistent ti one.

>>53787694
They don't need to be weak to anything, and they're fully in control of what their weaknesses are during the Persona creation stage. The only rule is that you must have one Weakness for each Resistance you have.

>>53784182
There's been a bit of discussion of this on the Discord, but one thing observed is that most of the "modern" games feature a mythos structured around a mythos narrative. Both P3 and P4 feature protagonist persona that are a subject of a "descent to the underworld". P5 doesn't really use a typical mythos narrative, but has a Phantom Thief theme structure around taking treasure.

I think if you pick a mythos grouping then you also want to pick out a structuring narrative; some sort of way to frame adventures in the world of the unconscious.

Some ideas (reposting from the Discord):
1) Arthurian Legend
Sample Personas: Arthur, Lancelot, Galahad, Bedivere, Morgana Le Fay, Merlin, Nimue, etc.

Narrative Themes:
Quest for the Grail - The Grail represents the culmination of human desire and longing, at lies in the depths of the world of the unconscious. The PCs are not the only ones seeking the Grail but are competing with other malevolent forces who seek it for their own ends

2) Sumerian Mythology
Sample Personas: Enkidu, Enlil, Gilgamesh, Inanna, Dumuzi

Narrative Themes
Inanna's descent into the Underworld - Campaign theme could be about saving/aiding others in need

Theft of the Tablets of Destiny - Like the Arthurian Grail campaign, the Tablets may represent some facet of collective humanity, but in this case the plot objective has already been stolen and must be recovered

>>53788127
Clearly I need to hang out in the discord more because those are some great ideas for campaign structure

>>53788127
How do you like my Gilgamesh persona I posted earlier?

>>53788536
I think it works pretty well - it melds elements of the mythic with the elements of the character's personal experience.

It does make me think of ways to build on >>53788127 - I think what a campaign also benefits from thinking about is that "common bond" that the PCs share. By default in most of the modern games this is easy enough - all the playable cast are usually high schoolers.

But Hudson Poole, posted above, might feature in an alternate game where all the characters are musicians of some sort, for example.

Still, the great difficulty with trying to emulate Persona is that a lot of the feel of the games comes from the fact that they're highly scripted single player experiences which weave in a lot of intertextuality and heavy themes into a narrative whole. It's hard to make that play nice with an emergent, story-by-committee format - at least, not without avoiding some level of railroading.

I'm going to GM Wild Talents in a couple of weeks and the setting I chose is "Military academy for Talented, in a world where everyone has a Talent.". It would be a low-power cinematic game. I need help on deciding the point level. Do you think 150 would be enough? The characters would be young adults and I plan on giving them quite some points during the game to show how much they've progressed.

Any other general tips? Maybe someone already ran a similar setting and could share experiences.

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>>53788840
That's a kind of neat idea.

Of course it's interesting that most of the Mesopotamian Personas are from the generation before the gods. Apsu, Tiamat, Kingu, for instance.

>>53788959
Split that 150 point total into points stats and skills and points for powers (125/25 or 100/50, depending on how you want to do things). Try to make sure that people have 5D+ in shit they want to be able to do reliably, they'll probably have to specialize a bit early on.

>>53788127
We really should make some adventures (modules) like this after the game os finished.

>>53788127
>>53788211
What discord? Can you share the invite?

>>53786491
Not a huge fan of needing to use Diligence + Beat Down against unharmed foes. It makes sense if they're fully stationary but wouldn't that mean that someone dropping their weapons is actually a better form of defense than being armed in some cases?

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>>53788959
>>53789494
Here's a bunch of 25 points power sets I made for dumping onto people, could be useful for NPCs or PCs if people want.

>>53789732
The Discord should be in the OP

>>53789732
>>53790392
The Discord is not in the OP; for now you can get in using: https://discord.gg/Dx9uDg

Permanent invite to the Persona Module Development Discord for the next thread (please include in OP): https://discord.gg/aWZMuZP

>>53788959
I can definitely provide some input on this tomorrow morning. It's a real cool idea that WT would do great with.

>>53789847
That's actually the point! If you discern that your opponent is a way better fighter than you are, you may be better off throwing down your weapon to de-escalate the situation, and hoping that their sense of fairness prevails (i.e. having more Fighting than Beat-Down). Of course you could be wrong and they end up being equally as vicious as they are skilled (Good Beat-Down in addition to good Fighting), so it's not a sure thing.

It's inspired by a mechanic in A Dirty World. To attack someone in a fair fight you roll Vigor + Courage, but to beat on inferior fighters you roll Vigor + Wrath.

>>53791780
Speaking of the next thread, I'm thinking it may be a good idea to just include the stuff in the pastebin depository in the 2nd post as an extended OP. That way it's accessible to more people. I feel like it probably gets overlooked by more readers than it should.

One lasts thought for tonight: what if we call the Persona module "The Velvet Book" as a reference to Carl Jung's Red Book and Black Books that are kind of the inspiration for a lot of Persona in the first place.

Here's the first entry in the Black Books. Tell me this doesn't give you Persona chills:

>My soul, my soul, where are you? Do you hear me? I speak, I call you–are you there? I have returned, I am here again. I have shaken the dust of all the lands from my feet, and I have come to you, I am with you. After long years of long wandering, I have come to you again....

>Do you still know me? How long the separation lasted! Everything has become so different. And how did I find you? How strange my journey was! What words should I use to tell you on what twisted paths a good star has guided me to you? Give me your hand, my almost forgotten soul. How warm the joy at seeing you again, you long disavowed soul. Life has led me back to you. ... My soul, my journey should continue with you. I will wander with you and ascend to my solitude.

>>53789855
Thanks a lot.

>>53792715
Alright, I'll be waiting. I'm curious to hear what other have done with such a setting.

>>53793173
I understand its value in that context, and it is neat but consider this example: Epic fight under the rain against your sworn enemy, who murdered your family and is trying to murder you. You're both wielding swords until you disarm him, and he continues to try and kill you.

You'd usually expect an unharmed opponent to be in a far worse position than an armed one by default, or at least in the vast majority of times. That's why people have weapons in the first place. Like this, it'd actually be viable assuming people have Guts + Fighting higher than Diligence + Beat Down.

Meanwhile from what I understood, ranged weapons suffer no such penalty, so throwing a rock is always golden.

This might just be years of dealing with systems that treat weapons as a + to everything, but lowering your blade and expecting a sense of fairness in your opponent to save you seems like a very setting dependent action.

>>53796308
Some fair points made here, but the scenario you're describing really is not something you'd encounter in either a Monsters and Other Childish Things game or, frankly, a Persona game. Your enemies aren't normal dudes you have a vendetta against, they're otherworldly products of human misery. If your nemesis is a guy who killed your family, your GM isn't going to have you fight him in the rain on the street, you're going to fight him on the street, you're going to contend with him in the shadow world, and when you defeat his shadow he's going to reform and turn himself into the cops or throw himself off a building.

But for the sake of your argument, let's say it does go down like that. I'm going to adjust the wording in the weapons chapter to say that you can only use Beat Down if your opponent isn't trying to fight back. If you disarm your enemy and he keeps swinging, you can still roll Fighting. But if he holds his hands up in surrender, well now it's a question of what kind of person are you? Will you strike an unarmed man, or try a different approach?

It's also worth noting that a disarmed person is still plenty dangerous because he can attack you emotionally. If you keep your sword and prepare to attack, your enemy could roll Face + Put-Down to call you a coward, and if he hits your Guts then it's as nasty as being slashed across your chest and you may drop your weapon anyway.

>>53797462
> If your nemesis is a guy who killed your family, your GM isn't going to have you fight him in the rain on the street, you're going to fight him on the street, you're going to contend with him in the shadow world, and when you defeat his shadow he's going to reform and turn himself into the cops or throw himself off a building.

This sentence got screwed up since I walked away from my laptop for a second and lost my place. Should say "your GM isn't going to have you fight him in the rain on the street, you're going to contend with him in the shadow world..."

Didn't want my point blunted by illiteracy.

>>53788959
Alright first off, what >>53789494 said is absolutely correct. If you plan to have a setting where everyone is roughly on the same page you should silo-off Talent points vs regular stat and skill points as their own. Since you specified that it's a low power campaign 125/25 should work pretty nicely.

As for General Tips:

---Wild Talents can be a pretty deadly system. By default, offensive super powers deal Width in Shock and Killing which can put someone in the hospital really fast. If you want to restrain this, to keep it lower powered, be sure to make good use of the Limited Damage flaw or keep dice pools with that kind of damage output under 7d.

---Pay attention to Loyalties and Passions. When I started playing the game I made the mistake of taking them pretty lightly, but since then I've made sure that I hit one of those for each character about once per session. It really keeps the players engaged and rewards them for good role-playing.

---If you want to keep things from getting out of control, never allow your players to have Wiggle Dice in their Stats. Skills and miracles only.

---Use the optional rules for Expert Dice along with Hard Dice. Hard Dice are deceptive: they work perfectly for passive abilities but they can be very disappointing when you're using them for actually active ones. Expert Dice tend to work better when you're actually rolling your dice, since they let you make free called shots, basically.

Can you share some elements of your campaign? I'd be interested in hearing how you're approaching it.

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Update on the combat section concerning Elemental combat, and a lead into rules for One More, Hold-Up and All Out Attacks, which will probably be the most important parts of this section.

>>53799195
this shit is looking good dude

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And here's the proposal for how to handle One More. I'm sure people have plenty of opinions about how to approach this particular mechanic, so I'm interested in a discussion of possible problems or improvements.

>>53797735
A couple things from the pastebin too if you haven't seen them:

>https://pastebin.com/qa4NcKr5
This is a system for random teenage social drama that works real well for any kind of school setting, including the Military academy idea

>https://pastebin.com/32yNPtax
This is the Miracle Flea Market where a bunch of anon-created powers have been saved. Some cool stuff in there for you to use or get ideas from.

>>53797735
Thanks.

Now more about the setting. In 2036 the first Talent was witnessed in a sports competition. The following few months more and more people had gotten a Talent themselves and after a year every single adult person had a Talent. Every single country started using these talents in their own ways, even staging wars.
The US was the first one to start military academies designed for combat-oriented Talents, where teams of 4 would be prepared to respond to various dangerous situations. Other nations followed suit and quickly developed their own academies of different styles: the Chinese Academies train country-loyal soldiers in teams of 3, the German Academies use state-of-the-art equipment to create pairs while the Lunar Colony Academy focuses on individuality first and foremost, with students competing in leaderboards in order not to drop out.

The players will play in 2060s, in one such academy, likely the US one. I've prepared a scenario involving the players being tested in a VR environment to get them (and me) used to the system, a tournament to make them used to their powers and a scenario involving Chinese spies in the Academy, to get the plot rolling. I've thought up of a way to "nerf" bullets, so that the players and the characters would have incentive to use whatever weapons they wish, not just assault/sniper rifles.

>>53802752
>I've thought up of a way to "nerf" bullets, so that the players and the characters would have incentive to use whatever weapons they wish, not just assault/sniper rifles.

Please share.

This sounds like a super fun idea; the idea feels suuuper anime but since you say you're aiming at a low-power feel that's interesting, since one would expect crazier action for that kind of thing. What sort of powers are you envisioning?

>>53793344
I like this idea. But it is too early to plan modules.
>>53800064
Shadows can use One More? I would say that only Mayor Shadows can

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Rules for Hold Up. I'd love some feedback on these ideas because I was really just writing what came to mind based on my experience with the ORE and Persona games in general. The whole concept is very much borrowed from A Dirty World's resolution system, so it should seem familiar to anyone whose played that or Better Angels.

>>53803567
>I like this idea. But it is too early to plan modules.
I meant as a name for the actual Persona and Other Childish Things module, not an module for the module. Should have been more clear.

Another name that popped up in the Discord was "Dramatis Persona" which is also nice.

>Shadows can use One More? I would say that only Mayor Shadows can
Maybe, that's probably a matter of play-testing though.

>>53803602
This can make some really cool situations where PCs have Shadows momentary in their party or Shadows helping in some way. But I have a little complain, the difficulty for those things should be highter. Something llike this: Width +2: its open. Width +4 its on board with you. Width +7 It wants to be your friend. Also this shouldnt be possible against mayor personas or maybe be more difficult

>>53804122
Remember, Width is how many dice you have in your Set. A Width of 4 is an astounding success in most rolls, Width of 7 is so staggeringly unlikely as to be nearly impossible.

In A Dirty World a Width of 2-3 is a standard success, a 4 is an extreme success and a 5 can turn the tides of an encounter single-handedly. It works for that game because ADW has rules that let you pretty easily add +1 or +2 to your Width directly. Since MaOCT lacks those rules, capping it at 4+ seems fair. It's within a realm of probability where you might actually get it on a roll, but you shouldn't expect it.

Hi guys!
Can you help me with building GANTZ equipment?
Specifically Z-Gun/H-gun and '100 point suit'.

>>53804408
I'm only vaguely familiar with GANTZ; can you explain what this equipment can do?

>>53804495
'Z-gun seems to apply severe gravitational force in a circular area and force everything within range of the shot to slam into the ground or be flattened, even a few inches of the floor below the shot is cut out'

Disregard suit, my players won't be able to live that long to pick it, lol

>>53804582
So it slams anything within, say, a 30 foot radius of its detonation into the ground with crushing force? Should be pretty easy. If I have a chance tonight I'll write it up.

>>53802958
Yea, feels like a generic anime which I kinda hate myself for it but it's the best thing I've got (and have been thinking about for the past 4 years).

Powers like
Temporary flight with wings
Two tentacles that can bite someone - one increases the pain they feel, other reduces it
Short-distance telepathy
Imprecise telekinesis of small/medium objects,
Spinning any small projectiles in flight
A shield of light that is quite durable, but only usable in sunlight, and so on.

I nerfed bullets in a pretty stupid way, but it kind of solves the problem of everybody just shooting each other without any Talents. Basically, a mosquito repellant company invested a lot of resources and created an electricity/electromagnetic/i'm not a physics major field which immediately fried any small moving thing that was not being held. It worked great for mosquitoes, the technology was easy to manufacture and it became mass produced. Only later they figured that the field severely slowed/shot down small bullets as well, so they just amped it up a bunch and now only high caliber (snipers, revolvers) or really unwieldy (heavy machine guns) guns aren't affected. Worse yet, if a soldier wants to use that field themselves, their own field is slowing their shots, as well as their opponent's field. Obviously, the field does nothing to a sword or a nunchuck or whatever, so melee weaponry became relevant again.

>>53804266
Oh crap. I confused Width with Height

>>53803731
Saying this from a numerical standpoint, rather than from playing: it should be fine to let minor shadows use One More. The 5d Jack Frost up there would only get One More (of Width 2) about a quarter of the time, going down quickly as it gets hurt. Even for more powerful shadows, the inability to add Relationships to their pool means that they're a lot less likely to pull off One More after the first round or so than an important character.

>>53806371
Pretty much. Stronger shadows should be able to put up more of a fight but a 5d or 6d guy will be pretty easy to deal with. Plus we want there to be SOME sting from your Persona's weakness.

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>>53788127
So the worst/best theme ever occurred to me, and I had to make a Persona based on it.

Belphegor (Tower), Tlazteotl (Priestess), Kanbari (Magician), and Red Cloak (Death)
(There's also a couple of others that would fit, but they lack fancy artwork)

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>>53807405
>Cornhole

This is the current state of the mech game. Had a thought along the lines of "What if they were more like Front Mission and had parts you could swap around?" Somehow this ends up as basically MaOTC.

https://pastebin.com/7U6iQJ1D

>>53807405
The system works!

...Though I'm not sure how I feel about THIS being one of its first test subjects.

>>53804582
does the gravity deal damage, and if so how lethal?

>>53797735
>>53788959
above post is correct, I just want to add a note about the attached/endless flaw/extra.

these have been the two biggest sources of min-maxing in my game.

Throwing endless on skills (like dodge and athletics) with hard die in them is a fast track to breaking the action economy.

having all powers attached to an activation power is a great way to get a -2 to everything (like the aforementioned perma rolled skills), make sure the players include ways to end these states, conditions that have to be met, or be prepared to hit their willpower often.

adding them together is a good way to make contingent effects. Actually not broken, just super helpful

>>53809201
I know, there's so many other demons crying out to become personas; like Chris the Car, Hooligan, Chemtrail, Dante (from dmc), or Drag Queen.

>>53810566
...chris the car?

>>53810586
It's a Stephen King reference from one of the earlier SMT games. Not sure about Chemtrails and Drag Queen though...

Lancelot would be a Devil Arcana or a Tower one? Or maybe Chariot...

>>53810642
Chemtrail was SMT IV. One of the fiends.
Drag Queen was Soul Hackers.

>>53810755
Probably Tower given his fall from grace and such.

Arthurian Persona would be pretty neat.

Maybe something like...
King Arthur (Emperor)
Galahad (Justice)
Gawain (Temperance)
Guinevere (Empress)
Lancelot (Tower)
Merlin (Magician or Devil)
Percival (Fool)

>>53810755
>>53811675
I'd put Lancelot as Moon, to represent his rivalry with Gawain who is associated with the Sun. Lancelot also was said to have gone mad at one point so it fits that. I'd put Merlin as Hierophant, Morgan le Fay as Devil, and Mordred as Tower. Good call on Percival as Fool.

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>>53811808
And of course we've already got the Lady of the Lake, as Lovers.

>>53811829
It also occurred to me that Bercilak de Hautdesert, the Green Knight, works as Hanged Man.

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>Talking about knights
>Forgetting Don De La Mancha

Fool arcana, baby

>>53811935
To be completely irrelevant, this reminds me of an ancient post on /a/ where someone wanted an adaptation of Don Quixote based around an old guy who likes jidai geki films riding around on a motorcycle fighting "monsters."

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>>53810566
>not including Audrey, Patriot, Rastaman, Man in Black, or Terminator

>>53804666
This isn't bad at all bro, in-fact it sounds real fun. Wild Talents descends from a game called Godlike that's all about quirky, edge-case powers applied to a military setting (one of the American talent squads, Miller's Hellions, includes one guy who can teleport people's clothes, one who can fly with a maximum ceiling of 40 feet (since he's afraid of heights) and a dude who can detonate ordnance by giving it the finger.

As for your Anti-Bullet tech, meh, it's fine. I like the goofiness of where it came from and it sets a nice tone for your game in general, which feels mildly comical; is that what you're aiming for?

All that stuff should be pretty simple and can be accomplished within a 25 point power budget pretty easily.

>>53804582
Here's a very lethal way to handle this weapon:

Z-GUN (9 pts per die)
>Attacks Extras and Flaws [Non-Physical+2, Radius+2, Focus-1, Engulf+2] Capacities: Range, Mass
EFFECT: The Z-Gun creates a zone of extreme gravitational force at the point where its projectile detonates, with a radius of 30 feet (note: can be fine-tuned, this is just the default in WT). Any target caught within its range suffers Width in Shock and Killing to all locations without any protection from armor.

This is based on my knowing nothing about how it works. Couple questions:

-Does the gravitational field persist, such that someone caught in it would be crushed over a period of time and would need to struggle to escape? Or is it a one time "slam you into the ground" attack?

-Is there a limitation on its ammunition, its recharge time or anything similar? It's a pretty pricey weapon and I'm just thinking of possible ways to reduce its per-die cost

>>53808415
I like what I'm seeing here but I'm a bit confused. Are you saying that you're rolling 8d when you use your legs and 12d when you use your core?

>>53762039
So can we make a JoJo game once Persona is done?

>>53816370
Sure can! We can brainstorm ideas right now, even.

I actually think, personally, that Jojo would fit Wild Talents more than MaOCT. MaOCT seems to share its core concept (you've got a magical buddy who protects you), but it's a very free-wheeling system and a lot of what makes Jojo work is the characters figuring out the specific quirks, parameters and limitations of the ENEMY STAND.

Wild Talents is entirely about putting together crazy powers with weird rules attached to them. Half of the powers I've created in recent games have a very Jojo feel to them, to the degree that I've started naming them after songs.

Plus, MaOCT is intentionally lightweight when it comes to inflicting damage on people, since it's a game about kids fighting on a playground, not shooting tommy guns at vampires.

Added this bit to the Hold Up rules:

>Alternatives to Hold Up
>In Persona 1 and 2, you didn’t need to Knock Down an enemy to start talking to it, you could Negotiate right from the start. This could potentially allow you to avoid a fight altogether. In Persona 3 and 4, most Shadows were strange, abstract creatures lacking the means to communicate or, seemingly, any kind of higher intelligence, making conversation impossible.

>>53816017
TYVM anon!
Slamming should be active while user keeps the trigger pushed.
No ammo or recharge required afaik.
But in manga people need to get 100+ points killing xenoscum in order to be presented with a choice to get z-gun. Usually they die at 50-60 points. So I guess its balanced that way.

>>53817239
One further question: is the damage inflicted from the gun from the gravity crushing you, or is it from being slammed to the ground initially?

This sounds like I'm being picky but believe it or not Wild Talents is flexible enough where both functions can be modeled.

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All Out Attacks written up. I think this should work nicely.

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I whipped up a quick thing in Scribus to throw in as a splash page at the start of the mod. Not a full on title page but it looks rather nice (and uses art that Carl Jung himself painted for the Red Book)

>>53816081
I should have typed out the rules, but here's how it works so far.

First, you describe the part and whatever it does, which comes under an Offense, Defense, or Utility quality. After that, you assign hit locations to it, which gives it 5 dice per hit location to work with (just like MaOCT). You use those dice to customize the part, which lowers the overall amount of available dice.

Once the part is customized, the remaining dice are treated as "space" in which equipment can fit into the part. So out of, say, 8d on an arm you set aside 4d for a weapon mount and 4d for a second one. Those are the dice you combine with the pilot's skills to get your dice pool. The number at the top is just the total to make sure everything is in order.

>>53819189
Ohhh I see, so you roll, like, Pilot xd + 3d Mobility for legs to move around or, like, Precision xd + 2d Manipulate to grab a thing with your giant robot claws.

Yeah that's a real nice idea. Do you think this would work exactly as MaOCT where the damage you take knocks off dice from your dice pools, or do you think you'll have a more traditional HP/Wound Box system?

>>53819417
For the sake of simplicity I figured that MaOCT's system would work best for simulating battle damage.

>>53819488
Yeah it does make sense for that.

I'm a bit confused about the math with the Arms and Core locations.

You've got:

Arms - 9d (10d), Armored 1
....2d - Manipulate (Utility)
....3d - Weapon Mount (Attack)

Core - 12d (15d), Armored 3
....4d - Power(Utility)
....4d - Weapon Mount (Attack)

I get the 9d and 12d (Hit Location dice - Armor) but I'm less on top of the rest of the numbers there. The total dice for the Arm Parts, for instance, is only 5d, so where's the remaining 4d for the Arms going? Same for the Core. Or are these 2d per Quality?

>>53819595
That would be my bad, actually. I didn't use up all the dice available when making these, as they were just the quick examples.

>>53818877
Someday I won't be poor and I'll be able to justify buying the complete Red Book.

>>53819684
Actually the 2d/Quality isn't that bad of a metric. In MaOCT you're expected to roll a location's dice pool on its own, but here you're rolling Quality Dice + Pilot skill, meaning the Quality Dice Pool needs to be a lot lower than you'd expect to have in MaOCT.

Question: if a location takes damage, where does it lose dice from? Since the Location itself has a dice pool (9d for Arms, for instance) but within that are separate Qualities with their own pools (2d and 3d, respectively). If I take a hit to my Arm, where do the dice fall from?

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>>53817274
Honestly I have no idea. I will try to attach a picture with an example.

>>53820155
Presumably from the qualities themselves, which then lowers the overall dice count for the part, in addition to lowering the ability to do anything. Whether or not the pilot chooses what gets decreased, or whether the attacker does is the big question.

>>53820270
Oh dear.

So then what you're looking at is actually more like this:

Z-GUN (14 pts per die)
>Attacks+3 Extras and Flaws [Non-Physical+2, Radius+2, Focus-1, Engulf+2, Disintegrate+2] Capacities: Range, Mass
EFFECT: The Z-Gun creates a zone of extreme gravitational force centered on the ground above the beam's focal point, with a radius of 10 feet. Any target caught within its radius range suffers Width+3 in Shock and Killing to all locations without any protection from armor as it is smashed irresistibly into the earth below. Any hit location filled with Killing from this attack is essentially vaporized as it's reduced to a thin film a few molecules thick at the base of the gravity well..

This will basically do exactly what is shown in that picture. It WILL kill anyone caught inside it unless they have some ludicrously powerful defensive ability. I didn't even bother specifying that it will hold objects in place because it's pretty clear that it's so strong that it just destroys anything you point it at.

>>53820453
>The Z-Gun creates a zone of extreme gravitational force centered on the ground above the beam's focal point

Sorry, should say "centered on the ground below the beam's focal point".

>>53820453
>>53820554
Thank you, anon, you helped me a lot.

>>53820627
That picture did the trick actually. I was speculating about it having a 2hd attached power that destroys Sets for movement to simulate the weapon holding someone in place, but given how destructive it is that doesn't even matter. You're just dead.

Given how big the thing is you could give it the Bulky flaw to represent the difficulty of hauling it around to reduce its cost to 13 pts, but it's still going to be fairly pricey-- but with that cost comes with the fact that even the most basic Set will instantly turn a human being into pudding.

theoretically speaking, if someone was interested in running a pERsOna (get it, ORE is in the title) campaign, what would people prefer the campaign to be like. My first bet would be similar to the game 3 through 5, but when dealing with tabletop, there's alot that could be done with the 'other world' setting.

I have some ideas, but its all vague right now.

>>53821012
The suggestion that I'd make is to lean HEAVY into Persona 5's style of other-world design as opposed to Persona 3 and 4. Those kind of maze-like dungeon crawlers don't work well at all with ORE, but a situation where you're navigating a strange, unnatural place where each area its own set-piece works perfectly.

There's a feedback loop in MaOCT that works nicely here in that you pull on your Relationships to do better on difficult tasks, but that incurs Shock to them that you then need to repair. So your actions in the other world (and in general) necessitate spending time with and improving your relationships in order to give you the psychological ammo you need to face bigger challenges.

One of the big pieces for the Persona Combat system that needs to be filled in is the Arcana Boost mechanic.

For those unfamiliar with it, in MaOCT you can "feed" Relationships to your Monster to give them extra dice in combat, at the risk of Shocking that relationship.

In our Persona Mod you can do that, but there's an added level: Relationships have Arcana, and each Arcana is linked to an Extra. When a Persona eats a Relationship, it can exchange the dice it would get for one-shot uses of that Arcana's Extra.

For instance, let's say that you have a 2d Relationship with the captain of the football team, who's an Emperor. If your Persona eats that relationship in a fight, they can get +2d to an action-- OR they can trade some or all of those dice for points in Gnarly to add damage to their attack.

There are 20 "regular" Arcana that you can have relationships with and 10 Extras that are directly relavent to combat. Which means each Extra is linked to 2 Arcana. So we need to match them up.

Here's the list of Extras along with a couple ideas I have for their Arcana matches:

Area- Fortune
Bounce-
Burn- Devil
Element- Magician
Gnarly- Emperor
Heal- Lovers
Spray-
Sweet-
Tough- Strength
Wicked Fast- Chariot

Any ideas?

>>53821563
i think making each arcana focus on specific stats too focused.

two ideas:

1)only a few S-links per character. I think it may bog down the game and narrative if each player has more than three or four s-links to maintain. If the game was run this way then any relationship can be fed to boost any persona 'limb'.

2)All arcana but shared: All arcane that is not connected to the players is shared by the party. So everyone shared their connection with the cancer patient death s-link, and anyone can feed dice from it to their persona, but as a group must rebuild that s-link if things fuck up. the advantage here is you can have more s-links in the game without having to take a lengthy time out so one player can rebuild a relationship. it can then become a group activity.

>>53821563
off the top of my head I'd say
>Area - the Sun
>Bounce - the Hermit
I've got a little booklet on tarot reading and symbolism lying around, I'll look at it and throw together more in a bit.

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To make up for >>53807405 I decided to try making a pair of fiends. I'm not too familiar with the system though, so it's a bit of experimentation.

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>>53821743

>>53821676
Generally speaking #1 is how MaOCT is designed to be played. Starting characters get 6d worth of Relationships which means you usually have 3 Relationships to start with, and you don't generally pick up that many more since you need to maintain those relationships or they fall apart on you.

For Persona, where the growth of a relationship is very important, we might say that they start with just 2d or 3d in Relationships and are expected to acquire more as the game goes on. But even vanilla MaOCT gets kind of sluggish if you have more than 4-5 Relationships.

>>53821775
This is super rad and is very much in line with how I'd imagine an ideal Persona to be built. Lots of distinct moving parts that you can identify as Locations.

>>53821775
Now we just need a Madonna Persona to complete the complex

>>53821855
would it break the system to literally start at zero connections besides your persona and have them as part of leveling/story rewards. It would make s-links very valuable and give players a need to foster their growth.

File: Persona and Other Childish Things (Draft 0.2.3).pdf (4MB, 1x1px) Image search: [Google]

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Wanted to post an updated draft of the complete module. Coming along nicely fellas!

Anyone with a little graphic design knowledge want to take a swing at the cover page?

Also still need to decide on the name. Current ideas:

>The Velvet Book
>Dramatis Persona
>PersOREna

>>53822044
Nope. That's totally an option. I'd say that's probably the most Persona way to play, but it's a taaad unrealistic unless EVERY character in the game is new in town.

Which is one great way to go. The players are all students at a boarding school/charter school/catholic school who were shipped there by their parents for various forms of bad behavior. That gives them a solid reason for banding together, if only because they don't know anybody else.

>>53821563
The thought is interesting but honestly I think the extra rules are a bit unnecessary. I'm an advocate of changing the source game as little as possible to accompany the mod.

I am with >>53821676 in that limitations need to be placed on Arcana, as to limit relationship shenanigans and mechanics abuse.

>>53822140
Well the beauty of this is that since it's just an added layer it can be easily skimmed off. It just means "in addition to what you normally do with Relationships you can ALSO do this..." The system doesn't hang on this Arcana Boost idea-- it's in there because it's an adaptation of the source material. And it's not even a universal thing either, since if you wanted to play a game closer to Persona 1-2 you'd remove this mechanic since Arcana Boosts aren't part of those games.

You can run Persona with MaOCT right out of the box without any changes except cosmetic ones. This mod is there to provide structural guidelines for making it feel more like a Persona game. You can treat the Arcana are pure flavor, OR you can treat them as being mechanically relevant and valuable. Either one works and neither option breaks the game.

>>53821676
Maybe a little of 1 and 2? Someone in a previous thead or the Discord chat mentioned reserving the Fool and World Arcanas to represent the team's unity and dedication and the mystery of their end goals, respectively. Since they're all in this together, they can share dice from these pools.

Other relationships get tracked separately. It doesn't really make sense to allow another player to leech dice from a relationship someone else has cultivated.

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>>53821974
Sorry, took me a bit.

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>>53822549
>>53821775
>>53821743
>>53807405
Based.

>>53822507
It's in the PDF. The Fool and the World CAN represent people but it's more likely that they represent the beginning and end, respectively, of the whole party's journey and arc.

>>53822055
The Velvet Book is the way to go

>>53824735
I cooked up a quick Strawpoll to gauge the thread's opinion on the subject

https://strawpoll.com/8wgg6wb

I'll give this a bump before bed. Hopefully the thread will be up in the morning.

Also people seem to really be responding to The Velvet Book so far.

>>53827830
Good night. And yeah, Velvet Book is a great name

>>53827830
Does that mean it can have a splash page that says "Welcome to the Velvet Book"?

How could we not?!

So here's the list of Arcana Boosts that the Discord worked out last night.

AREA
>Empress (command/control over space, feminine power reshaping energy)
>Moon (changing phases of the moon)

BOUNCE
>Fortune (avoid a blow through good luck)
>Tower (redirect disaster)

BURN
>Devil (hell-fire)
>Sun (stellar fire)

ELEMENT
>Magician (trickery, substitution)
>Hermit (alternative knowledge)

GNARLY
>Emperor (irresistible power)
>Death (inescapable fate)

HEAL
>Lovers (compassion for others)
>High Priestess (mending problems)

SPRAY
>Judgement (decisiveness)
>Temperance (juggling multiple actions)

SWEET
>Hierophant (wisdom to excel)
>Star (optimism improves chances)

TOUGH
>Strength (endurance)
>Hanged Man (sacrifice)

WICKED FAST
>Chariot (swift victory)
>Justice (swift justice)

Of these I'd feel like maybe swapping High Priestess and Star would be a good idea. It feels like a cop-out to assign two of the three traditionally feminine Arcana to Healing.

Thoughts?

>>53833567
A lot of these could be argued for other Extras, it's not like each fits perfectly and exclusively into the one they're in. Giving Heal to both lovers and Priestess seems like a cliche.

>>53785195
Yep.
I'll tell you guys later.
What do you want to know?

>>53834030
First off which one are you? Hero Academy or Catholic Monsters?

>>53785195
>Also the MaOCT guy doing the Horror Monsters at Catholic School game too.
I'm a player in that game, if it's the one I think it is. I'm definitely in an M&OCT game set in a Catholic school.

>>53834107
Some questions then:

1. What kind of Monsters are involved?

2. What's the plot of the game?

3. Any cool experiences so far?

>>53834507
>1. What kind of Monsters are involved?
My monster is Flutters, a sapient swarm of talking ravens whose central bird is the spawn of Huginn and Muninn. Other monsters include a hyper-advanced android called Enoch and a fire-breathing Scottish unicorn called Grex.

>2. What's the plot of the game?
All of our monsters are linked to horror movies in the setting, which the kids see in their dreams. This is because the events in the films actually happened, but were altered somehow. As well as this, the school we go to is patrolled by weird demon nuns and at least one magic zombie inside a Church that Flutters spotted. Also there's some guy going out Freddy Krugering bitches. We've only had one session so far, so I don't know what's up with that.

>3. Any cool experiences so far?
Coolest part of the last session was probably being able to use Flutters to spy on people and help out the other characters. They don't actually know he's my monster yet, since he's paranoid like that and can hide from monsters. Him trying to ferret out secrets and gather knowledge on his own will probably lead to interesting events later on.

>>53835082
Super glad this game is going on, the concept was extremely rad when the GM first posted about it.

Are you in a position to post Flutters' stats?

>>53835239
Sure, though they're mostly just Whispers from the core book modified with flight and detecting magic.


Favourite Thing: Uncovering secrets and knowledge. The more dangerous, the better.

Way to Hide: He appears as an innocuous flock of birds, and scatters the swarm until it is needed.

Parts:
1-3: Lots of Birds 10d - Useful (Fly around stealthily enough that even other monsters can't see you), Awesome x2, Tough x3)
4-6: Even More Birds 10d - Defends, Useful (Know and uncover secrets), Tough x4
7-8: Hundreds of Scratching Talons and Beaks 5d - Attacks, Useful (Pick up and carry objects), Area x2, Splash, Wicked Fast x1
9: Odin's Wisdom 3d - Useful (Maddening eldritch lore), Awesome x2
10: Thousands of Beady Eyes 3d - Useful (Eyesight so good it can detect magic), Awesome x2

>>53833567
mt only problem there is with Burn; it feels a little off to make two arcana focus on one specific element like that.

>>53835276
I love this. As the player, how do you distinguish between "Lots of Birds" and "Even More Birds" as far as separate locations?

>>53835759
For the purposes of damage? The knowledge/mental focus of the birds gets disrupted when Even More Birds is damaged, and the birds are harder to control when Lots of Birds is damaged. Fluff-wise? You don't. It's just to represent them being a swarm.

>>53835308
Burn isn't so much fire as it is ongoing damage. It can be acid, poison, STDs, a bad upbringing, visiting 4chan, etc

>>53835994
On that note, maybe Temperance should be Burn?

>>53836014
Swapping Temperance and Sun could be good then because the Sun Arcana is associated with extreme success, and the Spray Extra gives you more successes.

>>53835994
I guess that's cool, then.

>>53834056
GM of the first, player of the second.

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Here's the rules for Arcana Boosts. All of the actual Extra/Arcana matchups are subject to change from playtesting or any other reason.

>>53838374
Nice. How are you personally finding the MaOCT experience vs Wild Talents?

>>53816423
Using Wild Talents is probably right. I'll go build some Archetypes for Stand Users, Hamon Warriors and Vampires. Maybe Pillar Men and Spin Masters if I have time/there's enough interest.

>>53839329
I'm especially interesting in how one interprets Ripple Users, since, as far as I've ever been able to discern from my casual reading of Jojo, the Ripple's powers are "whatever Araki feels like".

The way I'd describe Ripple is as a breathing-based ki discipline that use something like yang/solar vibratory energy. It has both reinforcement-type and positive/sun energy use (healing, symptoms of sun exposure, undead-bane)
http://jojo.wikia.com/wiki/Ripple

>>53839361
Speaking as somebody relatively unfamiliar with the system (I've just read up to Skills), is there some kind of variable power? Otherwise, for an archetype I'd say it allows the user to deal Hard Dice damage to Vampires or Pillar Men when they use a hamon-conducting weapon or fight unarmed and use healing. Outside of that it's down to each individual's techniques and overdrives.

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Last bit for today before the weekend. I wanted to write something up about how to implement Persona's heavy use of buffs and debuffs into MaOCT. The solution pretty much uses existing parts of the combat system, since in-game there's no real explanation as to what, exactly, using Rakukaja does.

Not sure at all about how well it comes together, but hopefully it makes sense.

I'd also like to add that if there are no objections I'm going to start referring to this mod as The Velvet Book starting with the next draft, whenever I get a chance to compile it.

so do persona get bonuses from what arcana they are, or is arcana only really relevant because of arcana boosts?

>>53822055
So, Does Beatdown feel a bit niche to anyone else? It seems a bit odd to be really good at fighting things unless the things aren't fighting back, and smashing and kicking things while their down isn't exactly something that seems like it would come up enough to justify it as its own skill, and not just as a subfunction of Fighting or PE.

>>53839648
the variable effect extra is what you're looking for friendo

>>53842865
i think you do get boosts, though i haven't been keeping up

>>53842865
One idea that was floated is that your Persona's Arcana gives you a free point of an Extra, like getting a free point of Gnarly if you're The Emperor.

>>53839648
Fair enough; what one could do then probably is create a series of Hyperskills classified as Hamon-based with defined functions that you can buy points into, in addition to a more generic Variable Effect power of "hamon-related nonsense" that covers edge cases of Araki making stuff up on the fly.

You could also have an HAR3-equivalent Hard Armor power for vampires that wrecks any attacks coming at them that aren't Hamon powered.

>>53842954
It's in there for a few reasons that right now are conjecturally useful, but of course would require actual testing to see how they actually play. These include:

-Physically harrassing people too weak or timid to fight back (an action that nasty NPCs are likely to take)

-Apply physical leverage to objects to break through or break them down

-Laying into someone you've incapacitated

It's a very high-school skill. In the adult world you're not especially likely to run into a situation where you're kicking someone when they're down, but in the hyperactive teenage world of MaOCT and Persona it's a good deal more likely.

I'm not dogmatic about it, but as it stands I feel like it's a good adjustment for the system. It allows you to make characters who are good in a fight but too noble to hit someone when they're down, as well as guys who'll readily bully someone weaker then them but fold when you actually stand up to them.

>>53844836
It does allow for character diversification in that sense, but it seems the same thing can be done with roleplaying and the put down skill, and thus not near enough to justify an entire skill dedicated to.

All the uses you've presented can easily be covered with Fighting and P. E., and it seems a bit silly to shoehorn those uses into one skill.

>>53844929
For the record, in vanilla MaOCT the Diligence Stat is called "Feet" and its skills are P.E., Dodge and Kicking; we switched Dodge and Block between Diligence and Proficiency (the Hands Stat, though I'm on the fence about reverting that change), kept PE and that left us with Kicking, which honestly felt MORE specific than Beat-down. Hence the idea to change around how physical conflict works.

The core idea for Beatdown vs Fighting comes from the Wrath/Courage dichotemy in A Dirty World, which works GREAT, but that's a completely different system so it will require testing to see the implementation here.

>>53845023
is beat-down only for team All Out attacks or can it also be used freely against any "knocked down" target

I am willing to run the persona ore system as it currently is (but not the arcana boost, as it feels unfinished). I have an idea for a campaign but so far my plan is just up to the end of what would be the first 'palace' then we can stop, look at how the system went, and go from there if people want to continue. I only need to stat enemies and come up with social links.

I need four players, each should build there persona, pick any arcana but Fool and world are off limits. No social links. You will gain some as you progress. each player will most likely only have three or four social links they will grow as throughout the campaign. You can request what the arcana of those links will be, but not what kind of person that link is. thats up to me.

Evocation: whatever item this is, also use it as your combat weapon.

Favorite thing: will be used to transport yourself to 'the other world', catch, your persona can force you into the other world if that favorite thing is happening at random around you, so be careful.

backstory in next post.

>>53848462
backstory:

It was the biggest controversy over the past year: "The Educational Fund Collapse". A sleezy attemp to use market funding by various highschools resulted in a disasterous loss of funds for half the schools in the country. Many students were left with no school at all, but a large portion were shifted to the few remaining ones. You, and several others you met were all sent to Central City High. each of you from different schools that went bankrupt.

Theme of the campaign: The disastrous outcomes of false hope, and building a stable future for oneself.

who's interested? This adventure can serve as a playtest. Players skilled with ORE are prefered as I am new to the system myself.

what the hell is One Roll Engine

>>53848965
See >>53761825

>>53848293
You could use it to attack a downed Shadow since they count as defenseless; you'd get a +1d bonus to do so in that case.

>>53842865
Here's an idea: what if the Persona write-ups for each Arcana includes a Mandate that says "if your Persona is the Lovers it must have at least Heal x 3 somewhere on your Persona". That way your Arcana informs your Persona's nature instead of amplifying it.

>>53848462
>>53848509
Can you later tell us how It went? It would be cool to hav>>53848509
e that adventure as a reference. The first module/adventure of this mod