How do I make a Bard the BBEG while making him a threatening

>>53741978
>BBEG
>The whole post
>The image

Blegh

Mosh pit.

>>53741978
something something Lord Raptor.

>>53741985
kys

>>53741985
Alignment.

>>53741985
Shove that stick further up your ass, maybe it will stimulate your brain some.

>>53741978
>Mass Control Person
>Ever not threatneing

>>53741978
Fans. A whole lot of fans. People who follow the Bard really like him and are loyal even though they know he is a dick.

So the further PCs go the more problems with followers of the Bard they have. The final battle is not so much a battle against Brad himself as it is a battle against his most devoted followers. And they don't fight as normal villains (each one for himself) but as a group of old battle comrades while Bard supports them from behind.

crypt of the necrodancer style. I had a game of exalted were a Raksha had a harp that could reach levels of noise that made the air molocules explode. Anything the sound waves directly touched rattled itself into atoms.

Alternatively, cult of personality. It could be a leader whose works make people do evil things, be it subliminally or more obviously. Try to imagine how people say video games inspire high school shootings. What if the court's bard was casually controlling the whole kingdom whilst they were oblivious.

From a more flamboyant cleric with a guitar to an artist who can only write their notes in blood on sheet paper for the music to sound right, there's ample options.

Kung Fu Hustle has the two bards with the koto (?) using it to slice people, and Hornfreak in Trigun decimates Vash the Stampede with his hardcore saxophone playing.

How about music so sad it makes people suicidal, or a dissenter who topples a kingdom by making dangerous ballads questioning the sovereignty of the king.

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>>53741978
The bard is a competent politician that gives fiery and inspiring speeches, whipping people into an absolute frenzy, he/she has taken advantage of a war or famine or plague to scrape together a weakened nation and bring it back to power in their iron grasp. They come up with some plausible and compelling reasons to attack their neighbors and begin to expand both their territory and ideology.

he seduces the party
no saves

>>53741978
Music that charms monsters is an obvious choice. He could have an army of rats and other vermin that follow his every command.

Flute, violin or guitar that when played summons a bunch of shadow creatures that move and attack in time with the music.

A haunting melody that floats on the wind and can ensorcelle entire cities.

A song that if heard gets stuck in your head and slowly drives you insane, and the only cure is another song which only the bard knows.

Make something about the sounds he produces bypass earplugs and the like. Like, it vibrates the spirit or some shit.

Brown note.

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>>53741978
You fight to the beat, or you die.

I actually ran a fight like this in the JoJo game I'm running, where the villain had the power to impose a beat on combat. Players had to do actions that could be split into three beats of action, or their attacks would do less damage the farther off it was. He also switched off a waltz beat once he started getting really hurt, instead going to 4/4 time.
Also lots of dance fighting.

going out of left field, try Pontypool's option. A viral language. Everyone's afraid to communicate because a bard has cursed the local dialect. Anyone who speaks his language comes under his sway

>>53741978

snake oil salesman an masse with a cult devoted to him.

>>53742094
That's awesome.

GWAR

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badoop doop di da boop dop, babe

>>53742094
Stealing this

>>53741978
Supposing you're talking about a 3.x bard, i'd say you have to use a powerful magic item user, who makes use of quicken spell on his own magic to provide himself with some good escape routes, or simply ways to get out of the party's fire. Make his offensive power come from something he holds or wields or controls, that regularly has the power to inflict high damage on the party. making him a duelist is another way to make him slightly more threatening during the fight, provided he can use masterfully the terrain to his own benefit.

If you are talking about the 5E bard, you have enough spellcasting power in your hands to use the 'music of creation' schtick and make him all-powerful. Make him discover the true name of magic like the BBEG of Eragon, or compose the perfect symphony to lull death to sleep and make undead hordes, or simply learn power words from the greatest spellbooks of old times.

Controlling vast numbers of creatures is a good, if a bit overplayed, option.

>>53741978
>BBEG

Yuck.

>>53742804
I was thinking that they players would be following him through a series of crypts and tombs, trying to stop in in his search for "the song of eternity". I haven't decided what it will do yet, I just like the idea of a bard villain aesthetically.

>>53741978

He's married to a demon queen.

>>53742810
Why do you fags get triggered by an acronym, if i had said villain or antagonist you wouldn't have cared, even though they have the same meaning in the context of role-playing games. Kys

>>53742842
Its some retarded meme, probably started by some 14 year old with an ancestral redwood up his ass and then repeated ad infinitum by trolls looking to get some easy (You)s and rise outta people.

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>>53741978
Short answer: Groupies.
A good Bard is never alone. They've got public opinion on their side. The Bard has stronger, more passionate admirers than any politician. The Bard also is ludicrously well informed: bardic knowledge and all that, gained from their many loyal followers. The Bard knows all about the party. The Bard knows of their shenanigans and capabilities, and the bard has prepared accordingly. Expect The Bard to have allies who are also decently leveled PC classes as companions.

>>53741985
>>53741995
>>53741997
>>53742001

WTF are you four so salty about?

>>53742842
It's just that people have been complaining about "Big Bad Evil Guy" for years. The early complaints seemed to be mostly about the concept itself, with many people disagreeing that a plot needed a character as a central antagonist.

Now, it seems that some of the complaints are about the language. "Big Bad Evil Guy" was coined to sound corny, and is more of an in-joke than a designation like "Central Antagonist." It's also grown to be somewhat vague, with some people using it as the central antagonist, others using it as the final antagonist, and still others using it as simply any antagonist, which can get confusing when trying to communicate about one of these specific ideas.

As far as the shitstorm, I think that comes in part because it takes very little effort to say "BBEG sounds dumb", which is enough to trigger some people who use that phrase. These people then go to say things like "you need to respect this acronym, it's /tg/'s acronym, every true fa/tg/uy uses BBEG exclusively," and that gets even people who had no real interest in the matter upset, because it starts to sound like there's people who are actually actively trying to push BBEG.

BBEG is a meme, and like most memes it doesn't have much of a shelf life. The old joke has faded, and now it seems like people are just finding it weird for people to be so fervent in holding onto it.

>>53741978
The Music Meister

>>53742894
BBEG is a meme? I thought it was a concise acronym. Also, 4chan's been kinda trigger happy since ponies happened, which I guess is just two kinds of autisim rubbing against each other. Anyway, BBEG takes me four buttons to type, "antagonist" takes six more than that.
I find the necessity of differentiation between central, final, and simple antagonism to be moot. If your objective is antagonism from a narrative perspective, then there should be a focus on the methods of antagonism over the literary function.

>>53742881
>Implying it isn't samefagging.
>Implying it isn't the samefag who makse every ugh post trying to force a meme.

>>53742967
>Anyway, BBEG takes me four buttons to type, "antagonist" takes six more than that
Are you phoneposting or something? If you can post something as comparatively well-thought out as what you just said, you can spare a few characters to not sound like a fucking troper.

>>53742993
Or, you know, you could stop being an autistic spazz getting worked up over a non-issue on a Indonesian shit drawing rock.

>>53742993
>You can spare a few characters to avoid triggering /tg/'s autism.

What went wrong in your life for you to care about something so insignificant?

>>53741978
Noise Marines

>>53741978
Imagine Dalí, who pacted himself with some eldritch power and now can portray his visions not just through canvas, but through warping the very reality. Bonus points - he's not even Evil in the D&D alignment sense. He's just the worst kind of Chaotic Neutral.

>>53742058

This, honestly. The greatest power of a bard is to rally others. You can justify any number of minions of any type on hand

Also players love squaring off against other adventurers, even if their characters don't. It's a chance to use their abilities back at them and see who does it better.

>>53743003
>>53743008
I get that the
>BBEG
>Ugh.
joke is stale, but there's not much point in using a fanspeak acronym that nobody outside TvTropes uses as opposed to an actual word. It isn't just /tg/ autism either; if you were to go to a creative writing workshop and say "Why not just call the central antagonist a BBEG/Big Bad Evil Guy because it's shorter and easier?" nobody would take you seriously. Making yourself look like a fool for the sake of saving a few keystrokes isn't worth it.

>>53742993
At the moment, yes, I am. It's comfy in bed this morning. I'll post from my PC when, or if, I get around to it. But my pass is recognized on my phone, so there's no rush. Also try using "all the tropes" instead of tv tropes. All the tropes is basically TV tropes before it got co-opted. I legitimately don't know what the difference is / was, but it seems like you need a safe space out there.

>>53743094
You want to know where the term BBEG started, anon?

Would you?

IN THOSE CREATIVE WRITING WORKSHOPS WHERE YOU SAID THEY WOULD DERIDE YOU FOR USING THE VERY ACRONYM THEY FUCKING CREATED, DIPSHIT.

So, shut up about shit you actually have no clue about.

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>>53743030
I recently saw a documentary about Dalì. The guy wasn't nuts, he was simply a narcissist and an attention whore. He just didn't care about how he was considered, as long as he was noticed.
If you want to go full eldritch, go with Zdzislaw Beksinski.

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>>53741978
Basically the mousecatcher of Hamelen, except evil and with humans. A traveling CE douchebag musician whose demonic music riles people up into a frenzy and transforms them into the undead/demons/something else undesirable because fuck you.

>>53743122
In all honestly though, wouldn't Dali be better as a villain? A bard so determined to be noticed by the world that he would do anything, destroy anything to keep himself in the spotlight. He'd be a constant force of escalation for the players as well, as he pushes himself further and further into his perceived notoriety.

>>53743117
Funny, considering TvTropes itself and Wikipedia say it came from Buffy the Vampire Slayer. At this point we're arguing in circles, so I'll cut it off here.

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>>53743094
>Worrying about appearing foolish
>On 4chan
I sure hope you guys don't do this

>>53743122
>The guy wasn't nuts, he was simply a narcissist and an attention whore. He just didn't care about how he was considered, as long as he was noticed.
Are you saying he was pre-internet shitposter?

>>53743138
Piper of Hamelin was evil and with humans. As you might recall he lures all the children out of the town at the end of the fable, never to be seen again.

>>53743155
Good place to stop, all things considered. So how do we make a bard as an antagonist of varying degrees?

I have a bard big bad, in a campaign. Not exactly the class, given I'm not running D&D, but the archetype is there.

She's starting alone, essentially amassing a party to accomplish a quest that will doom half of the world for its own good. So she uses devious methods like music-based mind control to recruit some key allies, ideally the PCs got endeared to beforehand. But other than when it's useful, she's acting openly friendly, and traveling in the same caravan as the PCs, who can't openly point out at what she did wrong due to the power of friendship. Basically, the threat of the character in herself is pretty low, but powerful allies allow for a constant stream of taunting that should foster a very personal sort of hatred during the final confrontation, most likely in an opera house with the full group of PC going against some sort of fantasy band..

>>53743094
If you think /tg/ is at all analogous to a creative writing workshop, I think suicide is the only answer.

>>53742894
Literally called my main antagonist a "BBEG" for years.

It doesn't matter if it is a good aligned paladin with a heart of gold, or a psychopatic lunatic who wants to see the world burn.

It is just the designated "opposition" to the party.

>>53742007

This. BBEG could control a town of people, or maybe animals (a la the pied piper). Could have an army of dancing blades, effectively bringing all inanimate objects around him to life.

>>53743165
Cult of Personality.

Literally.

>>53742967
>concise

I don't think you know what that means.

>>53741978
Pathfinder actually did that.
There was that one adventure revolving around the rise to power of the evil redhead queen and she was largely a Bard.

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Something like this. Actually, exactly like this.

>>53743271
Then they're not a BBEG. They're not bad nor evil.

>>53743889
>Dissidia
Ugh

And Kefka was a shit talking magician with no social skills that everyone hated. Even his own troops. ESPECIALLY his own troops. But they were rightly afraid of him.

>>53741978
Make him a juggler who uses magical balls that he hurls at people's faces.

It'll trigger the shit out of your basement weirdo players.

(Alternatively, Kefka.)

>>53743911
But people know what you're meaning when you say that so who gives an actual fuck

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Pic related

>>53743944
Solid advice. Fuck making him a bard, just do whatever and try your best to be annoying and insulting to your own group.

>>53744017
>hate the mutant

>>53744113
>not wanting your group to hate your BBEG
>2017
hue

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You're all failures, you know that, right? How am I the first person to hear "bard" and "bbeg" and think of this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOnqjkJTMaA

>>53741978
Followers. Have him basically hang in the back with some type of protection from ranged attacks (say, a barrier that blocks arrows and magic which is held by two spires the PCs will have to destroy to get at him, while his minions fight them in the meantime), and just let him buff the minions. Add a template like lich or half-fiend so he can present a fair challenge even when he's forced to fight directly, or else make him into an existing creature with some levels in bars.

>>53742804
>quicken spell
>spontaneous caster

Ready to bend over and fork those feats?

>>53743114
>pass users defend BBEG

As if you needed more proof that it sucks.

>>53741978
Pied Piper-esque Bard who controls townsfolk with his melodies.

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>>53741978
play 40k

>>53742007
>>53743282
THE MUSIC MEISTTEERRRR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_q1SdaWLlw

>>53741978
I AM COMPLETE!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHzLzhcvMxA

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>the bard is a mad composer working on a mind controlling symphony that can compel an entire city commit mass suicide when they hear it
>can cause genocide just by floating in an airship above a population center and broadcasting his masterpiece

>>53741985
>BBEG
yeah, cause buffy totally isn't /tg/ related
>The whole post
Asking for ideas for an encounter I'll take that any day over the 20 constant generals.
>The Image
I agree with you, anime picture on the anime message board, what gall op has.

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>>53741978

>>53741978
He plays heavy war drums.

>>53741978
THIS ONE TIME ON G I JOE ZARTAN MADE A ROCK BAND THAT HYPMOTYZED PEEPLE
AND THE JOES HAD TO PLAY MUSIC TO COUNTER IT
NOT AS GOOD AS THE EPISODE WHERE LADY JAY GAVE IT UP FOR SNAKE EYES

>>53742967
It's the sort of comprehension decreasing jargon that TV Tropes is a fan of.

>>53741978
Bard became a god. His fan-followers are powering him up. Instantly resurrects due to blood magic that also sends followers to his heaven. Said followers still contribute to his power. Had new legendary instruments made each better than the last; it's a pain to wait for a replacement when you break you last one on stage. Everything they wear should be enchanted; vanity and the fear of screwing up in front of his fans demand ludicrously stacked skill bonuses, even in the buff. Magic tattoos, magic piercings, magic rings and other accessories that can be worn to bed.

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>>53741985

>>53742894
(You)

>>53742967
>BBEG is a meme?
Nah, but posting "Ugh." and the "People have been complaining about BBEG for years" pasta every time that the acronym is used are the spicy new /tg/ maymays.

>>53742191
Scatbot best bot.

>>53743948
Because REEEEEEEEing purely for the sake of REEEEEEEEEing.

>>53741978
Have him heard but not seen.

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>>53741978
We went over that once a while back.
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15323216/

>>53741978
1) Bards make great cult leaders, circus ringmasters, and infiltrators of communities and societies. He will no doubt have many lackeys working with him that will fight the party. He will probably be able to have them framed, spread songs about their cowardice or ill deeds, or otherwise ruin their good names. He will be able to indirectly screw with the party a great deal.

2) Most Big Bads only meet the party once, because any confrontation will lead to a battle wherein the PCs will either kill him, be wiped out, or the Big Bad will escape via ass-pull. A Bard, however, can probably escape ONCE in an 'honest' fashion due to invisibility, short range teleportation, and/or interference from crowds of hypnotized civilians. The second time the party meets him they'll be prepared though, and his ass is going down.

3) Bards tend to be really convincing. Don't make the final battle a threat due to his stats. Make it a threat because his motives and objective seem incredibly benign and justified. See if you can get some of the party members to defect to his side. If you have to, have the Big Bad promise them whatever their personal goals are - he's clearly done some homework on them after their first encounter.

4) If none of that works, have the final battle take place somewhere the Bard has trapped to hell and back. The traps won't activate when you enter but they'll brutally screw anyone who tries to leave. Unless he's alive and personally disables them, the party is in for a tedious and possibly lethal exit. Ask them if his death is worth all of them dying there with him.

>>53744017
Foundation?

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>>53742064
underrated post

>>53742810
>>53741985
Opened the thread just to see these.

Like this.

http://creepypasta.wikia.com/wiki/The_Song_and_Dance_Man

Sorry for the shitty /x/ tier link, it's the best I could find. It was originally in a Ichor Falls.

>>53741978
He has a golden toungue.
With a simple command he can convince just about anyone to do anything.
Use them to make the PCs fight each other.

>>53752279
>the anime message board

Fuck off, grandpa. This board isn't anime.

>>53742097
Skull Face get out

>>53742007
The Pied Piper of humans.

>>53742894
Anyone else feel uneasy, that some day this copypasta will be so old that the "people have been complaining for years" part will actually be true?

>>53743928
This, Kefka looked like a bard, but had none of the other qualities.

>>53744298
>[Commie]
>VLC

>>53742094
>Players had to do actions that could be split into three beats of action
Can you give an example? I don't get it.

>>53751870
Bonus points if the bard is a steampunk Beethoven clone and the symphony is the improved Ode To Joy?

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>>53741978
Just got to get creative.
>Bard who's song seduces people into fighting for him; creating an army.
>Bard is a Jack the Ripper style serial killer, and party has to figure out who he is.
>Bard had something horrible happen in his life making him supremely depressed and now all the songs he plays drives people to suicide.
>Bard's song turns people into RE4 living zombies. Starts turning whole towns.
>Musical litch who's songs make people rot and become a part of his band (bonus points for jazz styling).
>Bard that seduces men, women, and children so he can kidnap them for hedonistic Gilles de Rais like practices.
>Evil Jack Black.

>>53755704
>not wanting to conveniently set your volume to above 100% with a media player that just generally works well

I won't defend Commie though.

>>53743072

Seconded. Back when I realized that the 3.5e bard could use perform:oratory for bardic music, the archetype in my headcanon instantly changed from an idiot with a lute to a zealous demagogue.

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>>53755622
So a standard pied piper then?

>>53743889
Only just got to the world of ruin, but I feel like this is the exact opposite of what a bard would be able to accomplish. This is the most uncharismatic bastard I've ever seen in a game, and as one anon has said before me, hated even by his own troops. He'd be more akin to a deranged, anti social sorcerer than anything.

Well, if a bard could specialize in direct intimidation of his followers, I suppose that might be something.

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>>53743889
Kefka Palazzo
Class: Bard (Sorcerer? What's that?)
Musical instrument: A thousand screaming voices.
Charisma: Practically nonexistent. Do slave crowns count?
Jokes: To DIE for!

>>53756819
Hope you didn't leave Shadow to die.

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>>53758555
Kefka does have a decent outfit for a bard at least.

>>53755805
That's exactly my inspiration.

>>53758555

I would make him an arcane trickster.

Remember, before ascension he used a lot of poisons

>>53741978
>not posting sweet Nonon
you uncultured swine.

anyway, you could have him with a group of decently leveled underlings who he buffs. alternatively he could attempt to fascinate and charm the party before the fight even begins.
field control mixed with nusiances and traps maybe

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>>53759145
Here we have a man of refined taste.

>>53741978
>She had peace once, back when she didn't know anything. She's different now, there is always another empire to topple, always another king that threatens the unity of mankind, always another tyranny that demands a firebrand revolution. The tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of patriots and the song of unity will only play as long as no one disrupts it's harmony, that's how the world works, nothing ever comes for free on this fallen, sinful world; we're prisoners and our own jailwardens too.
>She thinks a king hired her to spy for him once, maybe. That's how she ended here, the revolutionary cell she investigated was right in the end, empire makes monsters of us all, even kings are slaves in the end. Now her master and mistress is unity itself, she serves no man and bends the knee to no woman, only the lockstep beat of mankind's unification. But to unify, mankind must be free and there is always another empire...
>She had peace once.

>>53741978
Have the bad bard be going around twisting the party's adventures to make them look bad at every turn.
That bandit camp the party took out to save that village? Everyone now believes it was a band of honourable nomads just trying to survive
The evil cult whose plan to sacrifice a virgin maiden and summon a powerful demon was thwarted by the party? Now everyone thinks it was a reclusive, pacifist faith doing their best to keep their traditions alive
That goblin tribe that was preying on travelers along the old ashen road until the party intervened? Harmless creatures who were victims of human prejudice
The famous highwayman with a huge price on his head for his many crimes? Turns out he was just a misunderstood vigilante standing up for the little guy
That crazed wizard whose rituals were threatening to tear time and space apart? A kindly old scholar who was THIS close to curing cancer
The beloved royal family who the party have sworn to loyally serve? Buncha greedy tyrants who everyone hates. Everyone had always hated them, remember?

Now their own story is turned against them. People sneer at them in the streets, inns and shops charge extra out of spite on the few occasions they don't outright refuse service, the guards are watching them closely waiting to jump on the smallest misdemeanor. Some settlements won't even let them enter as they don't want to take any chances with such a notorious band of thugs. Meanwhile the people of the kingdom would jump at the chance to defend the BBEG from you, and if you aren't careful about how you defeat him history will remember him as a hero and a martyr fighting against your villainy

>>53755862
>evil Jack Black
H-how is that even possible?

>>53741978
>BBEG

Ugh.

>>53742058
OP wanted BBEG, not a hero.

Make them a head of state. Secret service style bodyguards getting buffed from the Bard. 1 Bard and like 10 Monks/Fighters with stupid high saves and durablity.

>>53741978

Final Fantasy VI
Death Note
Evil Gandhi

>>53741978
Play 5e.

Why, classics of course

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khAS5K8-oqc

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>>53741978
Nothing says that bards can't be threatening.