/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>53740826
>Do you have any hopes for the Werewolf vidya?
I have hopes yes, quite high ones.
My expectations on the other hand....

>>53740826
>Do you have any hopes for the Werewolf vidya?
Used to. Not anymore. Dracula sucked it all right out of me.

>>53740826
Apparently that goblin stealth game the werewolf devs made was good, so we'll see. Not passing any judgement til i hear more about it.

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Is Changeling going to get a new edition?

Any news about the line?

>>53741057
Changeling the Lost? In development.
Changeling the Dreaming? Just got a 20th update.

Vtes people, any ideas for a smiling jack/antediluvian awakening wall? I'm considering harbingers of skulls with a salubri thrown in to give blood. Also salubri antitribu would be nice, since they could spam hide the heart.

What would you roll to choke someone out a la solid snake?

>>53741542
grapple rules

My Mage's hubby got ghouled by a bitch of a vampire what do?

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>>53740995
>Dracula sucked it all right out of me.

>>53741971
Lock him up to get him clean, and treat her to a lovely sunbathing session.

>>53742059
How do you get a ghoul clean?

>>53742079
Scrub him down with Death Fraying until the Blood-Bond goes away, then lots of soap and hot water.

>>53741971
>My Mage's hubby got ghouled by a bitch of a vampire what do?

The ghouling will wear off, the problem is the related blood bond. Conveniently, the death of the vampire who created it will end it immediately.

Lock the ghoul up for the very short time it should take any mage, no less with her mage friends, to put down the undead leech.

As a warning to other of her kind, it would be probably best to destroy a few dozen other vampires to serve as a further warning.

>>53741971
How bad are you at this mage thing that you let it happen?

>>53742583
Not him, but you can't always help every aspect of your family's life.

>>53742604
>you can't always help every aspect of your family's life.

True, but how clueless doe you have to be to allow your spouse to become ghouled by a vampires?

Worse, she's so damn bad and clueless at being a mage, she doesn't even know how to begin to solve the problem.

>laughing stock of the Consilium

>husband should file for divorce

>>53742604
With all the mage supremacy shit that goes on in this general, I find that hard to believe.

>>53742275

1. Sucker the leech out into a dark alley
2. Use correspondence to teleport a stake into the bitch's heart.
3. Start cutting off limbs and sending them to her sire/mentor/prince or whoever else she might gets marching orders from, with a politely-worded note about meddling in the personal affairs of wizards
4. Remove her head.

>>53742814
Keep in mind that it's not uncommon for vampires to make treaties with Seers, so screwing with vampires too much can lead to other unfortunate things happening.

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>>53742888
>treaties with Seers
Oh Anon, those are terms of surrender.

>>53742888

A Seer would incinerate any vampire so brazen and foolish as to risk an open hot war with the local Pentacle (assuming the local vampire prince get to the offender first).

What the hell do I go for to make a character that fits in with Geralt of Rivia, Shawn Spencer and Seras Victoria?
Not literally them of course but you get the idea.

>>53742604
1) Her "hubby" is a filthy sleeper
2) If he felt for the ghouling this means he is fit only to serve his betters. Vampire is doing him a favour
3) Indeed vampire is doing her a favour by freeing her from such weakness

>>53743081
Owod or Cofd?

What's a good starting hook for a group of hunters who all work for the police as their day jobs?
I'm thinking a slasher Michael Myers sorta thing. But in saying that I wonder if I shouldn't start them off with something a bit more inhuman.

>>53743154
Ech slashers are good start for begginer hunters. And after they blow his head off you can go cliche and return him "next season" as a ghost wanting vengence

>>53743110
Cofd.
Or whichever the newer ones are, which are Cofd I believe.

>>53743081
Geralt of Rivia I would probably build as something out of Deviant since this is what witchers are in short - super soldiers with minor powers built to fight supernatural threats.

Seras could be gangrel considering she frenzies easily. Disciplines would be vigor and auspex tho

>>53740826
fuck yes my image is the general image now

>>53743706

Vampires, somehow managing to be even bigger douches than mages.

>>53743727
We have plenty of vampire and mage douchebaggery. We need more of other splats now

>>53743748
lets talk about hunters then, and by hunters I mean the best hunters LoT

>>53743748

The only pc's that are bigger douches than vampires and mages are beasts, and in most of our chronicles, we refuse to acknowledge the latter even exist.

All splats are monsters in their own way, but being a weapons-grade asshole is truly inherent to the vampire and mage condition, far in excess of most other beings in the CofD.

>>53743689
Sorry, you misunderstand me. I meant those are the types of characters I'll be playing with, not as.
My bad, should've made it more clear.

>>53743799
Demon has plenty of potential to be an asshole but I agree with vamp and mage being a douche is kind of enforced. If Changelings in second edition start hurting people by feeding(that is what I heard at least) there will be some potential there

>>53743781

Oh sweet summer child, that's not how you spell VaSCU

>>53743799

In the new game, sure. OWoD werewolves were probably the most insufferable splat.

>>53743913
VaSCU is a conspiracy though
its the best conspiracy but LoT is the best compact

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>>53743913
>In the new game, sure. OWoD werewolves were probably the most insufferable splat.

Kinda true

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>>53743940
blah

>>53743950
>>53743940
>>53743913
I dont know jack shit about OWoD wolfs? would you mind explaining why?

>>53743955

OWerewolf makes Beast look unbiased

>>53743989
oh wow.......thats......pretty fucking awful

>>53743955
Long story short owod woofs are kinda bad at thinking stuff out and their natural impulse is to go for the throat in every situation. If something puzzles them or somehow does not fit their world view it's genocide time.

>>53744024
like in the observatory level got it

>>53744021

Brucato may have been the Liefield to Mage's Deadpool, but he was more tolerable than some of the shit OWerewolf sharted out.

>>53744074
Yup. Good example of this behavior is where they decided to wage war on other shapeshifters. Unlike in WtF where other shifters are often monstrous assholes or hosts other shapeshifters in owod generally had role to play and worked towards similar goal as woofs. Problem is woofs decided to go full Hitler on them

>>53743781
>and by hunters I mean the best hunters LoT
>>53743913
>Oh sweet summer child, that's not how you spell VaSCU

You are both wrong.

It's obviously Network Zero. I cannot imagine a world where my mage couldn't relax by watching Funniest Hunter Videos on the internet after a hard day of researching Mysteries and vivisecting sleepers.

>>53744147
im sorry I can't get behind a hunter compact whose goal is to basically make more blair witch projects

>>53744152
>>53744147
>>53743913
>>53743781

Ashwood Abbey.

If for no other reason, so many SJW WW fans find them so horribly offensive.

Also, they're the group most likely to appreciate (and be jealous of) Seers of the Throne having a good time snorting magic cocaine off the ass of a vampire stripper.

>Good times...

>Join the Seers

>Serve the Exarchs

>>53744147
>relax by watching Funniest Hunter Videos

>cue the benny hill music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK6TXMsvgQg

>>53744221
>Serve the Exarchs

>Join Division Six

What happens to Professional Training when you change professions? What if you're a cop who got promoted to detective?

>>53744816
>What if you're a cop who got promoted to detective?

They are either suborned into servitude from local vampires / Seers / [insert evil or other supernatural organization, cult or conspiracy], or suffer a terrible "accident" soon after their promotion. It's very tragic and sad, but no one ever said that the CofD isn't a rough place.

Keep your head down and just move along. Promotions are dangerous, as is anything else that might get you noticed.

>>53744909
That doesn't answer the question.

>>53745586
>That doesn't answer the question.

Sanctity of Merits rule.

With the ST's permission, either keep the original Professional Training or choose (or transition to) a new Professional training (or other appropriate Merits).

>>53744816

Well at top level it lets you pick a third skill so either the pc get the third skill to relate to their upgraded profession or i would let him re spent the professional training dot in professional training detective

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What's the most unusual and interesting piece of fluff from your preferred WoD splat?

>>53745947
Caine is a faggot.

>>53745965

We're not talking about your sexual preferences now, anon.

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Feedback requested on these stats for pic related.

Family: Namtaru
Hunger: Prey
Life: Shy + Scholar
Legend: Unexpected

Mental Attributes: Intelligence 4, Wits 4, Resolve 5
Physical Attributes: Strength 3, Dexterity 5, Stamina 4
Social Attributes: Presence 6, Manipulation 4, Composure 3

Mental Skills: Academics (Holidays, Literature) 3, Computer 1, Crafts 2, Investigation 3, Medicine 2, Occult (Beasts) 4, Politics 2, Science 2
Physical Skills: Athletics 4, Brawl 2, Drive 1, Firearms 0, Larceny 2, Stealth 5, Survival 2, Weaponry 0
Social Skills: Animal Ken (Canines) 2, Empathy (Fear) 3, Expression (Oratory, Singing) 4, Intimidation (Shock) 5, Persuasion 3, Socialize (High Class) 4, Streetwise 1, Subterfuge 2

Merits: Area Of Expertise (Fear), Encyclopedic Knowledge (Academics, Occult), Eye For The Strange, Indomitable (Advanced), Interdisciplinary Specialty (Fear), Library (Academics 2, Occult 2), Professional Training 5 (Socialite: Expression, Socialize, Academics), Double Jointed (Advanced), Iron Stamina 2, Parkour 4, Allies (Several), Contacts (Several), Fame 1, Fixer, Inspiring, Iron Will, Resources 4, Retainer (Zero 3), Status (High Class 4), Striking Looks 2, True Friend (Sally), Iron Skin 2 (Advanced 2), Hunger Management 3, Dark Walker 3 (Advanced), Find A Vein (Glamour 5, Essence 5), Wandering Soul 4

Willpower: 8
Defense: 7
Initiative: 8
Speed: 13
Health: 18
Lair: 9

Atavisms: Alien Allure, Dragonfire, From The Shadows, Infestation (Shadowy Bats), Looming Presence, Needs Must, Relentless Hunter, Shadowed Soul, Siren’s Treacherous Song, Unbreakable

Nightmares: Behold My True Form, Run Away, You Are Not Alone, Fear Is Contagious

Horror Traits: Power 12, Finesse 12, Resistance 10, Size 14, Health 19, Defense 8, Initiative 11, Speed 29

Lair Traits: Crosswinds, Echoing, Fog, Poor Light, Sealed Exits, Thunderous, Mirages, Wondrous

>>53746178
1. It's a Beast and it needs to die
2. Might be just me but I would probably stat him as a changeling
3. Other then that seems fine

>>53745947
I think the Ashirra are interesting as hell, personally. I'd wanna play a campaign in an Ashirra city in the modern age.

>>53744074

Well, that's actually one of the times where going RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE was probably a good idea.

I mean, 99,99% of all vampires are dicks and are screwing up the spiritual (and often physical) balance of the world just by existing. If a werewolf didn't attack a Leech on sight, they're probably not doing their job correctly, no matter how much it might screw over that particular vampire.

But in general, the Werewolves are absolute dicks and have gone full-on genocide on so many different Breeds that it's not even funny.

It's because of their hateboners that the werewolves are so ridiculously outnumbered and outmanouvered by the Wyrm's agents.

The werewolves (or at least their ancestors) are personally responsible for the loss of the werebulls, werelizards, wereboars, werebats, weresnakes and various other werewolf tribes that were culled due to supposed "wyrm taint", or fell to ACTUAL wyrm taint because no other tribe helped them out.

Some of those other shifter breeds survived into the Final Nights, but they're few in number, to put it lightly.

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>>53746652

Mokole are pretty cool.

Does anyone have the picture of the mage riding in some womans bedroom zapping a tentacle monster?

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>>53743940

>>53747783
Why 'werewolf x mage' ?

Why not 'vampire x mage' ?

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>>53748131
>Why 'werewolf x mage' ?
Because Mages crave the knot.

>>53748131
Mage x Mage

But that's practically incest

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So what makes Heroes so bad again? They kill the most faggoty splat, they don't take shit from nobody to try and stop them from their mission, they're (usually) humans with extraordinary powers, and they can bro up with Hunters as a mentor or instructional figure for new players. Heroes are a best

>>53748244
Heroes are bad because the creator said they are bad because they are basically Chads killing snowflakes. Which is bad. Because vulnerable protagonists and shit.

Idea for a Scelestus: a serene and polite man fixated on imposing order on the world. He poses as an efficient and impartial office boss, but he only really cares about keeping things calm, clean and clockwork. A totally banal worker who simply happens to use the Abyss to terrorize his workplace into his narrow and twisted view of top notch performance. No plans for ending the world here. The irony of using the Abyss to impose order is not lost on him, but he keeps on trying. He's just that obsessed.

>>53748244
everything associated with Beast is bad

What's the most Vulgar tech that the Technocratic Union possesses?

>>53748244
Way i understand it is the beast line is built on grey morality. The context given to justify "Heroes" as the antagonist is that they're willing to do anything if it means they can kill a beast, meaning using allies (yours and his) as easily replaced canon fodder for the sake of glory.

I think beast probably should have emphasized the "protagonists aren't always good, nor are antagonist always evil and both positions are fluid" mucj harder

>>53748897
Stats (Feedback Requested):

Virtue: Efficient/Polite
Vice: Perfectionist

Path: Obrimos
Order: Silver Ladder

Mental Attributes: Intelligence 3, Wits 3, Resolve 4
Physical Attributes: Strength 2, Dexterity 3, Stamina 2
Social Attributes: Presence 3, Manipulation 3, Composure 4

Mental Skills: Academics (Business) 3, Computer 2, Occult (Abyss) 2, Politics (Corporate) 3, Investigation 2
Physical Skills: Athletics 1, Firearms 1, Larceny 1, Stealth 2
Social Skills: Empathy (Psychological Weaknesses) 2, Expression (Rhetoric) 3, Intimidation (Coldblooded) 3, Persuasion (Logic) 2, Socialize 1, Subterfuge (Conceal Emotions) 3

Merits: Area Of Expertise 1 (Logic), Common Sense 3, Interdisciplinary Specialty 1 (Logic), Professional Training 5 (Businessman: Academics, Persuasion, Subterfuge), Virtuous 2, Allies (Corporate 3, Silver Ladder 2), Closed Book 3, Contacts (Businessmen, Clients), Iron Will, Resources 4, Safe Place 3, Status (Corporate 3), Table Turner 1, Untouchable, Order Status (Silver Ladder 2), High Speech 1, Occultation 3, Sanctum 6 (+Demesne)

Health: 7
Willpower: 8
Defense: 4
Initiative: 7
Speed: 10

Wisdom: 5
Gnosis: 3
Arcana: Forces 3, Matter 3, Mind 1, Prime 3
Rotes: ???
Praxes: ???
Dedicated Magical Tool: Broken Pocket Watch
Obsessions: ???

>>53748244
They're not. Beast is just written by Speshul Shnowfwakes, and Heroes are therefore the big mean bullies from their childhood.

>>53751397

I believe that every time an overprivileged mage incinerates a beast, an angel gets its wings.

Can a non-mage tell if a spell if being cast on them?

>>53751492
>Heroes are a God-Machine plot to control the chaos of the Primordial Dream

Sure, why not

>>53751535
If they have mystic senses that detect shit that it is manipulating, or if they're very obviously being hit with harm.

>>53751584
>Heroes are a God-Machine plot to control the chaos of the Primordial Dream

I was referring to angels more generally or to the Aether, but that works too.

Do you guys use alternate ways for mortal characters to regain willpower?

Like sitting down for a hot meal, relaxing in a sauna, having a drink while listening to some music, etc.

>>53748943
If one were to rewrite Beast, how would you keep the good ideas and make it less of a snowflake shitshow?

>>53752236
The general conscientious is "Make a mix of Forsaken and Descent"

>>53752270
Meaning what exactly? Hide from Big Scary Shit while keeping tabs on Not As Big Scary Shit?

>>53752236
If you ever want it accepted as "crossover friendly" game, the #1 thing to do is to remove all the shit powers that "make" other splats like/accept them.

It may be metagaming, but everyone I've ever spoken to has had an intensely negative reaction to the idea of their character being forced to accept/deal with Beasts in any way via magic bullshit. I myself had a worse reaction to that shit than virtually any mechanics in *wod history.

>>53752331
Wait, that's a thing? I must have misread the book, where the fuck did they put something that overwhelmingly stupid?

>>53751535
With dots in awareness, possibly, but it depends on the spell

Anyone ever use the Demon Translation Guide? Is the result playable (in either direction)?

>>53752331
>Roll a cheiron field researcher

>create "spoopbait" from captured beasts

>Employee of the motherfucking decade

Spy (Team Fortress 2)

Virtue: Cunning
Vice: Arrogant/Treacherous

Mental Attributes: Intelligence 3, Wits 4, Resolve 3
Physical Attributes: Strength 3, Dexterity 4, Stamina 3
Social Attributes: Presence 3, Manipulation 4, Composure 4

Mental Skills: Academics 2, Crafts 2, Computer 2, Medicine 1, Occult 1, Politics 1, Investigation (Espionage) 4, Science 1

Physical Skills: Athletics 3, Brawl (Neutralize) 3, Drive 2, Firearms (Revolver) 3, Larceny (Security Systems) 4, Stealth (Invisibility) 4, Survival 1, Weaponry (Knife) 3

Social Skills: Animal Ken 0, Empathy 2, Expression (Snarking) 2, Intimidation 3, Persuasion 3, Socialize 3, Streetwise 2, Subterfuge (Disguise) 4

Skill Tricks: Larceny (All Doors Open), Stealth (Backstab, Find Cover), Subterfuge (Perfect Disguise), Weaponry (Butcher)

Merits: Area Of Expertise (Espionage, Disguise), At Any Cost, Common Sense, Fast Reflexes 2, Interdisciplinary Specialty (Espionage), Patient, Professional Training 5 (Spy: Stealth, Subterfuge, Investigation), Tolerance For Biology, Trained Observer 1, Vice-Ridden (Advanced 3), Demolisher 1, Fleet Of Foot 2, Iron Stamina 2, Quick Draw (Revolver, Knife), Barfly, Closed Book 3, Pusher, Spin Doctor, Striking Looks 1, Table Turner, Takes One To Know One, Armed Defense 3, Cheap Shot, Close Quarters Combat 3, Defensive Combat (Weaponry), Fighting Finesse (Knife), Firefight 2, Light Weapons 3, Martial Arts 4, Shiv 2

Health: 8
Willpower: 7 [Risking Willpower]
Defense: 7
Initiative: 10
Speed: 14
Integrity: 7
Conviction: 4
Conditions: Addiction (Cigarettes)

Odd question /wodg/. I'm going to be running a cyberpunk nWoD game shortly and I'm not sure how I should go about stating police and security robots. Do I use the Spirit rules and change a couple things, do I stat them as mortals and refluff them? Do I import HIT Marks to the new ruleset?

>>53753867
Stat as mortals, and refluff.
Spirit rules have too many hangups.

Add appropriate bonuses and immunities as needed.

40k kinda makes a lot of sense in a mage paradigm

maintaining the astronomican is only possible through managing the extreme paradox backlash with regular awakened sacrifices

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>>53753752
Oh fuck. Do the entire team.

Please

>>53754343
I will! But I don't know which one to do next.

Whoever replies to this post with dubs first gets to choose which TF2 team member I'll write up next.

>>53753752
>Strength 3
His knife does Scout's bat damage when it's not a backstab.

>>53754507
Not fair!

>>53754507
Obviously we need some Hebby Weepons goy

>>53754507
Medic or Engineer

Do it

>>53754542
It's not meant to be a 1 for 1 conversion of the video game's stats, just the concepts. I figured he'd be strong, but not super strong.

>>53753752

Excellent

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>>53753752
Shpee is pleased

>>53754507
Heavy

>>53754507
Demoman. knight and normal version if trips.

>>53754507
Pyro.
As a Slasher.

>>53752316
Make it so that you are an actual monstrosity whose "humanity" is a mask that can be discarded, instead of some wangsty otherkin where you have the "soul" of a Beast or something.

Make it so that you can build your own monstrosity like you could in Demon.

Drop the excuses and justifications. You are playing as a Bad Guy, a villain protagonist. You are not here to "teach valuable lessons," you are a parasite, an inhuman pseudo-vampire that feeds on fear and terror instead of blood. Conversely, stop trying to make Heroes categorically in the wrong. Its ok some are a bit crazy or take things a bit too far at times, but they are in the right: you are an abomination that has to be destroyed.

Fix the crossover mechanics. Its ok if Beasts can feed by observing other splats do stuff, but get rid of what I call the "Mary Sue aura." There is no reason why a Mage or a Werewolf pack have to accept you, just because you are another supernatural critter who wants to watch them eat. Its super speshul Mary Suedom in-universe, and robs other players of agency on the tabletop. Also, its lazy. My Thyrsus has to bargain, bribe, intimidate, or kiss ass when he wants a Spirit to do something. A Beast should have to do the same.

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>>53754507
How would you stat Merasmus? I think he's a Moros, with high dots in Force, Matter, Death, and Space.

>>53756353
Agreed.

Another idea: Beasts do not consider themselves the source of everything. They think of themselves as outsiders and black sheep looking for a place among the other supernaturals who rightfully do not like them. This worldview makes them actually put effort into understanding the other splats instead of assuming they already do. They would also get a new set of powers called Celebrations, which require the Family Ties Condition and are more about helping the other supernaturals.

What if, instead of portraying the Beast vs Hero conflict as Oppressed vs Oppressor, we portrayed it as Yin and Yang? You can't have one without the other, and neither is necessarily better. I prefer less politicized terms when talking about something so archetypal as heroes and monsters.

Like, would Conan care about the identity politics of a Beast running around burning people's crops? Of course not. Would it be cool to know that the Beast actually has his side of the story? Sure. But please don't force your IRL political views on me through the fanged jaws of a freaking dragon. Dragons don't complain about identity politics. They take what they want and wreck your shit.

As for a plot hook that does not rely on crossover: maybe the Feedings of Beasts create ripples and even waves through the Primordial Dream, which can crash upon the mortal realm. This manifests as fears and other primal emotions taking physical form, such as special monsters, places and artifacts. You can enter the PD through your Lair to find out more out these, or make our own.

Any news on Changeling 2e? I haven't checked since January.

>>53756446
Sounds accurate, but since I see the TF2 Mercenaries as Hunters, Merasmus would probably be written with Witchfinder rules.

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>play online crossover chronicle
>1 mage 2 vampires 1 changeling
>decided to go 'Scooby Doo' mystery hunting
>mfw "muh mysteries" as a mage
>keep spamming practice of Knowing
>culprit is found within the hour
>irked players complaining that it "wasn't much of a game"
>late drop in promethean player
>use Mind to temporarily supress Disquiet amongst peers
>promethean player angry because "muh themes"
>changeling attacks me because I somehow invalidated her OOC goals
>I kill her
>she gets mad
>demands a re-do
>I get kicked out from group

What did I do wrong?

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>>53756623
Well for starters you joined a crossover game without realising that you should probably play down your capacity for the sake of not stepping on any toes.

>>53756623
This is why you don't play as a Mage in a crossover game. Mage Supremacy invalidates all the other players and causes you to hog the spotlight, which other players do not like.

>>53756684
Or why you don't play as anything else in a Mage campaign. Had a long running (just shy of a decade) Mage game with a core group of 4 Mage players who'd been playing for so long our characters were nudging Arch-Mage levels.

Had a player join who decided to play as a Werewolf, GM insisted on giving him bonus XP to put him at least somewhere close to our level stat wise but the player refused - said he wanted to start from scratch.

Our first interaction with the character was him assaulting us in full beast-mode (players choice) and getting shitty when we froze him in time and violated his mind to make him a docile servant. Didn't even understand that we'd been taking it easy on him.

He tried again a little while later, rolling up a Changeling who specialised in deal making. Was completely boxed by a Fate mage.

He refused to play with us after that. Guy just hated the idea of playing a mage. Why he wanted to play in a mage game was anyones guess.

>>53756623
You played as a mage.

>>53756760
>said he wanted to start from scratch.
What the fuck? Who the hell does this? I've never been in a game where new people don't just get exp set to match other players. Now for a werewolf sure that's not going to match a mage with high spheres but it is better than fucking nothing.

>>53756784
Spheres/Arcana. Sorry, I wasn't sure what game you were playing and for some reason defaulted to oWoD despite not really liking it that much and much preferring Awakening

>>53756784

I know. I figured it was a bit of hubris or just not realising how OP you can get on his part. Or maybe he wanted to tell the story of his character from the start, rather than have to have some pre-made backstory to explain why his Werewolf just rocks into town loaded for trouble.

He at least took the XP with the Changeling character, but the result wasn't any better.

We later had some success introducing a new character with no starting XP, but it was basically a character/player brought in to start a spin-off group using the same shared setting.

>>53756353
>My Thyrsus has to bargain, bribe, intimidate, or kiss ass when he wants a Spirit to do something

Buy more Spirit dots to fix that.

>>53756623
Mage players.

The solution.

Is poison.

>>53757066
Poison everyone who doesn't play a Mage?

>>53756905
I've just recently started, so I'm Gnosis 2 Spirit 3. I'm still 9 Experience away from getting that sweet Spirit cred. Even then, I'm aiming to be a pillar of my Shadow community, so just ordering Spirits around with my rank and Ruling Practices isn't going to win me a lot of friends or get me respect. It can also be bad for Wisdom.

>>53757066
Silly Anon, "Cleanse the Body" is a Life 1 spell. Another victory for Mage Supremacy!

>>53756353
>ts ok if Beasts can feed by observing other splats do stuff, but get rid of what I call the "Mary Sue aura."

Is that seriously a thing?

>>53757215
Thing is, Shadow "community" is a bad way to look at it.

The Shadow is an ecosystem.
Ordering Spirits around because you're more powerful than them is par for the course.

>>53756623
>playing a Mage in a crossover game
I don't know who is stupider. You, for doing this without realizing what would happen, or the ST, for letting it happen in the first place.

>>53757325
This. Being bigger than the spirit ando rdering them to do what you want isn't being a dick, or will lose you respect.

It's just what's expected.

You probably aren't going to make any friends, but if you go into the Shadow looking to make friends, then you already got a bad approach.

>>53757231
Yes. It gets even better. Demons aren't part of the "family" so to speak, so here's what Beasts have to say about them:

>Demon: What would happen if I tore off your masks? Would anything remain?

I'm sure you can tell what would happen if they tried that.

>>53757229
Another example of mage player reading comprehension, anyway.

>>53757663
Or a finer example of a fa/tg/uys poor syntax. The linked post could either be directed too or about Mage players. So the solution of poison could be either poisoning the mage player, poisoning the other players or poisoning characters.

>>53756623
Well how'd you kill her?

>>53757415
RAW it's hubris isn't it? You could inure yourself but that'll be a pain.

>>53757832
Depends if you're magically binding it into doing something against its nature, or just using the fact you're effectively fucking "Rank 4" to command some Rank 1-2 plebs to follow your immediate orders.

I mean, that might be Hubristic, depending on what you order them to do. But it's not innately so.

Forcing a Spirit to act counter to its nature is not within the normal operations of the Shadow. They're compelled not to be able to by their nature, and would rather run from you than follow your bidding.

>>53756353
I liked the idea of Beast's being trapped within the archetypical monster story. Destined to be born and slain again and again throughout history.

Say you were the proverbial dragon you could try and avoid people but eventually you'd wake up one day surrounded by burning ruins and dead livestock or you can string yourself along occasionally murdering sheep and harassing women at bars.

But eventually 'st. george' is going to come for you and probably start an evangelical revival.

>>53757638
IMHO there is angle to take with why Demon is immune to this bullshit. After becoming Unchained demon is free to do what he wants. No Beast, no woof instincs or obligations, no hubris, he is not imbalanced and broken like changeling, world does not reject him like promethean nor he is someones slave like mummy. There is nothing beast can appeal to. No weakness nor secondary nature there is to exploit other what demon allows.

In other words Beast is unable to shit up Demon like it does other splats

>>53758093
It's also that Demons are not, never have been, and are not "made" from humans.

They are a sapient arcane robot hiding in a human-shaped hole that has been carved into reality.

>>53758124
That is another thing. Thou you could make that argument with Unflashed prometheans

>>53758146
Prometheans are proto-humans.
They have a big gooey core of kinda-human goodness broiling inside of them that they need to finish baking.

I think that qualifies them as being close enough to Beasts for them to be affected.

With Demons on the other hand, the cover is just an act.
A really good act that some of them lose themselves in, but an act nonetheless.

>>53758157
Yeah you probably right.

What always made me wonder is:
Cover is living breathing human, with history, job and so on. Demon can angel-jack to get fresh new cover. Question is could this be made to trigger new dawn in promethean or turn him into that human outright

>>53756623
A prime example of non-Mage players being total jerk asses about the gameline.

Seriously. Stop hating on shit just because it's of a more potent background

>>53758307
>Stop hating on shit just because it's of a more potent background
The only actual reason why people hate Ascension/Awakening.

It's not about them walking over the other supernatural's problems.
It's because they loathe old bearded men being better than everyone else.

News flash. Wizards are fucking wizards.
Common sense dictates that they're going to be above vampires, werewolves & fairies.

The hate started with Masquerade lamenting over their precious princes of the night being second best, and has yet to simmer down.

>>53758307
The guy got kicked because he fucked up their game not because someone hates on Mage. Still blame is on gm for letting that dickwad play mage in crossover game

>>53758409
How did he fuck up the game? By actually utilizing the Practices?

He wasn't in the wrong.

>>53758424
Well..yes? As I said blame is on gm but one would expect player to know better

>>53758409
>The guy got kicked because he fucked up their game

Are you stoned? If him playing a mage was fucking up the game, the GM would have just said 'Hey, can you play something other than a mage? I can't make the game balance for everyone otherwise'.

If he got booted from the game, (and assuming he wasn't a jackass and is lying to us) then it wasn't his fault. He didn't fuck anything up, the GM dropped the ball.

>>53758452
Jesus fucking christ I wrote
>Still blame is on gm
Stop being dense

>>53758442
>As I said blame is on gm but one would expect player to know better

What sort of shitcuck are you? If the GM said 'You can play a Mage' you think a player should then think 'Ah nuts, he probably won't be able to handle having a mage in the group.'

Jesus Lester, get the fuck out of here.

>>53758463
You also called the guy a dickwad for playing a mage in a crossover game where the GM allowed it, you kiddy fondler.

>>53758409
>The guy got kicked because he fucked up their game not because someone hates on Mage

>Rolls a Mage
>GM lets him play a Mage
>Plays a Mage
>GM drops the ball and can't handle a Mage
>Kicks the guy out of the game

How is that a story of a player getting kicked for fucking up a game and not a story of a player getting kicked for playing a mage in your estimation?

Wait, are you the GM?

>>53758484
>>53758466
Cry me a river.

Look, if you play a Mage in a crossover game, you should think about how your spells will mess with other's enjoyment of the game before you cast them.

If you GM a crossover game, you should both try to manage that Mage's capacity without ruining his fun (high presence of Sleepers is a good way), and talk to the player so that they understand the responsibility that comes with their privileged position.

In this case, neither individual acknowledged this state.

>>53758508
Well I do not really get what is appeal of crossover games as a whole. One would assume each splat is broad enough to cover various angles

>>53758508
>Look, if you play a Mage in a crossover game, you should think about how your spells will mess with other's enjoyment of the game before you cast them.

Only as far as casting spells on other players. If you start using that shit to get your way, then you're being an asshole. But if you're actively helping the group cohesion and furthering the story, then it's on the GM's head. You're acting like people need to get a license before they should be allowed to play a Mage in a crossover game.

>>53758533
Only time I've ever seen a crossover game was when our GM was running a Mage, Vampire and Werewolf campaign at roughly the same time - and the crossover was only for a few sessions while some big stuff went down in setting.

As a long term thing I can't see how most crossover games would work. Anyone got any stories of crossover games done well?

>>53758533
It's purportedly due to the potential for interesting interactions between one splat and another.

However invariably this leads to 3 different splats fucking the game up with their conflicting principles. Rather than an interesting mix of about 2, with 1 being in the minority.

>>53758533
Crossover games are fun if the ST isn't retarded and the plot makes sense. Works better with lower power lines too.

>>53758548
I am suggesting that.

If there's a mostly Werewolf game about combat, and the hunt, they're not going to be very happy when a Space 3 Mastigos comes along and kills hordes of enemies at once by trapping them in a bubble until they suffocate.

>>53758567
>Mage, Vampire and Werewolf campaign at roughly the same time

So he run campaign for each splat and players interacted with each other only when say vampire group run into woof group?

>>53758569
IMHO it does undercut themes of various splats. For example Mummy themes and mechanics aren't really compatibile with say werewolf. I could imagine one-shot partnerships to work thou

>>53758586
>they're not going to be very happy when a Space 3 Mastigos comes along and kills hordes of enemies at once by trapping them in a bubble until they suffocate

Why? So Werewolves can have fun in combat but a Mage can't? You suck.

Realistically the Uratha would be thanking the Mage.

>>53758619
>IMHO it does undercut themes of various splats
Which is generally why Mage is the go-to splat for crossovers.
They're so flexible, and capable of being obsessed with the native splat they're interacting with, which gives sufficient reason why they're working with them.

The only problem is avoiding making it all about yourself.

>>53758648
It's a matter of not ruining the entire group's fun for your own benefit.

And no, Uratha aren't always pragmatic in their hunts. They enjoy it.
Trapping their target in a bubble and doing their job for them is likely going to piss them off.

It's like someone snatching the food from your mouth and shoving a nutrient suppository up your ass.

>>53758678
Bullshit. What if the mage was a Thyrsus shaman and valuable member of their community like The Pack has mentioned previously?

You can't say they wouldn't inquire the wise woman to get her hands dirty as well.

>>53758586
If that was the group dynamic why would the GM allow a mage? And if the GM allowed the mage, how is that the players fault? Are you implying that players are speshul snowflakes who need to have their safe spaces protected in case a character comes along that can do their schtick better?

So all this talk of crossover and I have a question.
I want to run short campaign in with my vamp players will be helping NPC mummy to recover the relic on prince behest. Problems are mummy is running low on time and relic is in city ruled by opposing covenant(players are crones and city they need to infiltrate is ruled by LS)

However I have a bit of a problem thinking up interesting relic that could tempt players to grab for themselves(i.e. I want to bait them hard)

>>53758713
Then that player has even greater potential to ruin the Werewolves fun, as her Spirit Practices are almost universally more powerful and useful than their rites.

I mean for Christ's sake Spirit 2 can generate an infinite amount of Essence.
No need to worry about the pack every having to ration or make difficult choices about essence use ever again.

>>53758733
They shouldn't. However the burden shouldn't always be on the GM.
The player, when granted the opportunity to play a Mage, shouldn't abuse that trust and ruin the game.

GM permission isn't an open door for all kinds of crap, and the mere existence of the potential for abuse of power doesn't mean that you can't potentially trust the player to make choices which improve the game for everyone.

>>53758678
Isn't it the GMs job to make sure the group works together as a collective whole? If the player making a mage made it clear he wanted a combat-wombat, why is it his fault if the GM didn't help balance the group?

Or, for that matter, why the group didn't come together to discuss and balance the problem?

>>53758779
That's exactly what I'm saying.
Except more that the players have an obligation not to be shitcunts and put the GM in that position in the first place.

>>53758779
As a GM I'm in favor of group getting together and disscussin their characters before we start playing. This is probably only way to get everyone on board and avoid such game to blow up

>>53758619
>So he run campaign for each splat and players interacted with each other only when say vampire group run into woof group?

Yeah. Small town + unemployed GM who gets paid to run games = gming multiple games simultaneously.

>>53758759
Except the scenario given isn't an abuse - it's just playing a mage. Not evening an OP mage. It's like playing a Scion character with Epic level stats in a hunter game and then bitching that they pass every roll - the problem is the GM not thinking things through.

>>53758791
If the GM has given you the okay to play a mage, playing a mage doesn't make you a shitcunt. It makes the GM and the rest of the group shortsighted assholes.

>>53758819
This. A thousand times, this.

>>53758869
Still that requires some solid preparation. I understand game was fun? Care to share the plot?

>>53758917
Setting was a little homebrew, but essentially the main crux of the games were set in a bizarre omni-city. Basically no matter what city you were in, if you knew how you could always get to this place. I suspect the GM was heavily inspired by Sigil.

The mage game was basically just about figuring out why this city existed and later on how to stop them. Not sure what the vamp/wolf game was about, but at some stage a Vamp. Princeling had figured out how to use the city and was playing multiple cities against each other by pretending to be different people across the world, and the Wolfs had some campaign against the Sabbat.

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>>53746792
Most of the old school Changing Breeds are pretty cool, honestly. Usually impossible to integrate into any other chronicle, but really well-written and interesting.

The nwod Ferals, on the other hand...

>>53759403
By ferals you mean chanign breeds? Then yeah they are huge dump

>>53758365
>Common sense

Guess what WoD fans in general lack?

>>53756353
>Fix the crossover mechanics. Its ok if Beasts can feed by observing other splats do stuff, but get rid of what I call the "Mary Sue aura." There is no reason why a Mage or a Werewolf pack have to accept you, just because you are another supernatural critter who wants to watch them eat. Its super speshul Mary Suedom in-universe, and robs other players of agency on the tabletop. Also, its lazy. My Thyrsus has to bargain, bribe, intimidate, or kiss ass when he wants a Spirit to do something. A Beast should have to do the same.
There is no fucking room for a Mage player to call any other splat a Mary Sue one. I'm not saying you're wrong about Beast, but look at the plank in your own eye first.

Also, are we still talking about improvements to Beast?

>>53760096
>Also, are we still talking about improvements to Beast?

Only way to improve Beast is breaking it down and then rebuilding from the ground up

>>53760172
I have ideas on that score.

https://pastebin.com/n5Uv1Ysn

>>53760096
Where does Scion fit in with all this?

>>53760222
Oh yeah seen this before. On mechanical subject of Heroes in your write up IMHO using demon cover could be helpful.

Hero piecing himself together both from his former life but also from parts of various legends and "hero tropes" that exist in human consciousness. This would affect what kind of "entangled" he would draw towards himself and what kind of powers he would have. What do you think?

>>53759403

>nwod Ferals on the other hand

What about them? I haven't gotten to reading WtF yet.

>>53760352
He is probably talking about Changeing Breeds
http://projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/kurieg/changing-breeds/
They are preety bad.

However you can ignore those and read War against the pure with is part of acctual WtF line and also describes various shapeshifters. Good book overall

Can someone explain spellcasting in mage20? How do you actually cast a spell? What actions are required by the mage? Are reagents or focuses needed for every spell, or only some? What are some examples of focuses? Do they need to be tangible objects or can they be more like conditions (ie if it's raining)?

Also kind of a weird question but how does the 'I have my own paradigm' thing work when there are other mages who believe other things around? How does a mage accept that other people have totally different magic that doesn't work the way theirs does? And how often do mages understand things like avatars, quintessence, the truth about how their powers work(and the meta idea that all mages are the same thing but expressed differently?) Wouldn't understanding that contradict your personal paradigm? How can a PC believe that he's casting magic spells from their god *and* accept that this other dude is psychic or something. If he just accepts that his god is granting both powers, why bother with his own rituals since they clearly aren't needed?

>>53760367

>In ancient times, Man bent his knee to Woman, believe it if you will, and his heart burned with envy to see Woman befriend the wolves. The Wyrm seized on that envy, and visited Man, teaching him the secrets of seed and womb. As the Wyrm feasted on the jealousy of Man for Woman, Man's strength was turned against his partner and the peace was lost. With his great strength and natural aggression, Man quickly turned his hand from survival to Conquest.
>His Tyranny lashed out not only at his partners, but at all the Wyld. The Wyrm delighted in his new ally and set Man about the task of raping both the bodies of Woman and the souls of the Mother.

Oh man, this stuff is supremely retarded.

>>53760732
That's Brucato for you

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>>53760823

Don't forget to donate to Phil's Patreon, or he might not be able to afford his rent. If he's homeless, he might not be able to produce such quality product (or afford to eat locally produced, sustainable organic food sold by disabled native American transgender womyn).

>>53760889
>gamers
>eat healthy
Hah

>>53760305
Interesting idea with Cover. But what would happen once all the Cover was gone?

>>53760732
Just so you know, none of that is canon as of Revised, if this is some older Black Furies book.

>>53761027

Yeah, it's 1st edition, but it's still fucking hilarious how over the top the whole thing is.

>>53760672
The short answer is: M20 is a shit book and you should be reading the 2e and Revised sourcebooks instead.
Foci are a really, really broad term, mantras and prayers can be foci, wands can be foci, gestures can be foci, reagents and consumable items can be although most Mages won't stick with foci like that and they won't pass that method on to their students.
Casting spells dependent on conditions is more often then not represented by a Flaw then a focus type.
Paradigms, Avatars, Quint and all that stuff varies by Order, subgroup, and the Mage themself. Again, if M20 weren't shit this would be explained more clearly.

>>53760889

I like the idea of setting up food that corresponds to the setting/game you're currently playing, but that'd be more of a novel thing to be done once every 5-6 months rather than become a regular thing. It'd just get tiresome.

>>53761013
Might be that Hero somehow stripped of his Legend/Mythos is turned into gibbering, froathing madmen. If we would go with old Gaston as an example he has both looks and charisma of true hero but as people start calling him on his shit he becomes more bestial and violent. Some sort of frenzy mechanic could be in order

>>53761078
It's easy if you are playing vampire. Put on something that smells great in the kitchen and make sure noone eats anything for few hours. Frenzy galore

>>53761134
Oh, I can definitely work with that, with some variation. Basically, a Hero's morality stat equivalent is sort of a protagonist-centered morality aura: when it's high, people like and trust the Hero simply for being, well, the Hero of the story, something they can instinctively sense. Once it falls, however (and since Heroes aren't intended to be protagonists, I think it'd be more interesting to have it not be determined by the Hero's own actions but be able to be stripped by effort from others), the Hero starts losing it until they at first are no more charismatic than an ordinary person would be... and then even their humanity itself starts fading as they begin slipping into the uncanny valley, with the Nightmare shining through more and more. A Hero who bottomed out couldn't even vaguely pass for human, and would likely be weirder and creepier than quite a few Beasts.

>>53761068

So my character has the merit conditional magic and a flaw as well, both meant to represent that he cannot cast unless the conditions are right.

Basically he gets power from adoration. So that can be direct from a person who cares about him in a real way or a general idea of popularity/fame. He's an actor and so often I have him check his Twitter on his phone to sort of represent this but I feel like people around him liking him a lot should also count, but that simply removes his flaw's restriction. I guess it doesn't count as a focus too. So, checking his phone does count I imagine as that's a specific act.. And that's usually how it works when we play. But then if I don't have the phone I'm fucked. And it's like... Idk, I feel like that would deny me my focus, but not access to spellcasting? I guess my shit needs to be more spelled out on my sheet but it's just hard to understand how to fit my idea into the game mechanics and my group is kind of shitty to me if I'm confused about rule stuff.

So, can I use the same focus for all my spells/spheres or do I need one for each?

>>53761374
> It's easy if you are playing vampire. Put on something that smells great in the kitchen and make sure noone eats anything for few hours. Frenzy galore
Datura seeds pancakes supremacy!

>>53761387
I like it. Do you think they should become more of a physical threat when they start slipping? He loses his ability to produce cronies and attract victims so he switches into murder mode

>>53761597
I'm not sure if they'd become more powerful, necessarily, so much as more willing to burn resources to get fast results, such as their remaining Entangled. It wouldn't be a straight-up boost, but they would become greater physical threats.

>>53761676
I see. IMHO one of the faults of Beast is that Heros are kind of anemic opponents when compared to things like strix, hosts or angels. In that they are simmilar to alchemists from promethean but even those are more dangerous to their respective splat

>>53761846
This is why one of my goals was to make Heroes the big, scary foes of the setting. They are, after all, the preordained protagonists of the story, and it takes quite a bit of effort to deny the Nightmare's plot.

>>53761893
Sure thing.
I will try to take a look at rest of your write up later and see if I have any ideas

>>53757638
>I'm sure you can tell what would happen if they tried that.
Demon goes loud and kills everyone?

>>53762078
Kills the beast then legs for it not looking back while checking his cover folder

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>>53757638
>>53762078
It'd go a little something like that.
Also have a vintage /tg/ meme.

>>53762037
I actually had a bunch of different ideas while I was out walking, so I'll be fiddling with the writeup.

>>53757638
To be fair, how many people outside demonic circles know that? And stupid stereotypes have been a WoD thing for almost thirty years.

>>53762241
Why not Merciless Gunman him? Beasts are not supernaturally immune to bullets without right atavism?

>>53762993
I've yet to see a Gone Loud Demon do anything aside from full Doom tier "RIP AND TEAR", sometimes while on fire or during stopped time, but always melee.

Speaking of which, any anons have a recommendation for a good D:tD actual play? I've only found 2 and both were pretty shit.

>>53760096
>There is no fucking room for a Mage player to call any other splat a Mary Sue one

Except Mages are not supposed to crossover, and the game does not bend over backwards to excuse your actions.

So I haven't yet moved on from reading about Requiem, it's got plenty of material to go through, and nWoD in general, and consequently I have no idea what Demon: The Descent is about, save for the fact that they're rogue agents of the God-Machine (of which I also know very little). What's the theme of DtD games? What's the goal for the Demons?

>>53763690
The best TLDR on Demon I can give is picture the Matrix if Smith became a protagonist after Neo corrupted his code

>>53763690
The theme of DtD is that you are being constantly hunted by something much more powerful than you. You have to blend into the masses of humanity, have an escape plan ready at all times, and keep your head down.

You average Demon wants to retain their independence and free will. They either do this by: spying and gathering information, trying to find a way to rejoin the GM while remaining independent, blowing the GM up, or just enjoying their new freedom while they can.

>>53763690
Demon is a Spy/Espionage themed game. Think Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Demon!

>>53763145
which two?

>>53764337
There's one crossposted on Cancer.net and the OPP forums called Night Trains Detective Agency or something to that effect, and another Youtube series with terrible mic quallity.

So, what would a sin eater Waifu look like?

>>53764765
New Orleans party girl.

Also, since most of the Supernatural creatures in CofD have compacts or conspiracies dedicated to fighting them or dealing with them, I'm surprised there isn't one specifically for changelings or geists.

I sort of had an idea for one regarding changelings, a family who made a pledge long ago that would ensorcel each generation of their progeny in return for keeping the fae out of their town and eliminating fetches on the behalf of returning changelings. A clan of hillbillies who can see past the mask.

>>53765114
Huh, what do you think one hunting Sin Eater's would look like?

>>53761392
>my group is kind of shitty to me if I'm confused about rule stuff.
>Playing m20
You may want to run, it doesn't sound like a group that will lend it self to positive experiences.

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>>53764765
Hmm IMHO this one would work

>>53765251
I could see a conspiracy bankrolled by an incredibly powerful Abmortal dedicated to preventing the 'zombies' and 'revenants' from preying on innocent people (specifically himself). Give them an endowment that basically amounts to 'being able to cheat death'

>>53756623
Are all mages this disruptive of game sessions?

Or is it just the players themselves?

>>53765986
when shitting in other peoples ponds yes.

>>53766119
Ech I think crossover just draws out the worst in people. There will always be that guy that wants to screw over other people

>Mike we are being assaulted by a fuckin Gulmoth. Why did you stake LIsa and shot Kevin with a silver bullet?
>I'm a hunter and this is what my character would do

>>53766193
I'm in a mixed game playing a mage and honestly haven't seen these issues. If anything I kind of feel useless sometimes because I don't have the right Arcana to immediately unravel mysteries unlike the fucking Beast player who has a literal 'find plot relevant thing' power.

By and large we all are doing okay in a mixed setting, but that's because we all know each other pretty well and have gamed together for a long time.

Ok, so all these talks about crossovers has me wanting to ask a question: I am getting ready to jump into one. It involves a vampire with a shit-ton of resilience and a human hunter that's our team's brains. What kind of role could I play as a Werewolf that wouldn't involve stepping on either of their toes? Some kind of speedy speed boy? I've never touched Werewolf before, so I don't really know what I should expect out of my character yet. I'm getting ready to sit down with the book in a matter of minutes.

>>53766365
If the campaign is focused on spooky things. Be Spirit focused.

>>53766263
It might be that groups that consists of people who know each other well and have every one on board can work through crossover issues. Good thing it works out for you.

My only experience was playing Demon in Vampire game. The problem was with gm beign new to CofD. In terms of gameplay most annoying thing was that there was no reason for my demon to sit around while they are laying in daysleep

>So we need to recover that thing
>Got it already
>Uh now we need to get out of town
>Fixed transport for us
>Don't you ever sleep?
>....this is the thing I forgot about

So as a punishment my Demon slept through entire helicopter chase

>>53766558
Our vampire has a ghoul who acts as his proxy during the day and also handles all computer and technical shit we need done.

>>53766587
This was something we didn't think out but on the other hand I was pretending to be their ghoul

>>53766587

#GhoulLivesMatter

So has anyone ever played in the Woundgate setting from mirrors? My ST clearly just read it and is enamored since a few sessions ago out of nowhere in this fairly long running chronicle we found one and have been dicking around on an extradimensional adventure but I really, really don't like the alterations to the basic premises of the world it brings with it.

I'm kind of salty but don't want to just bitch about it since the game has been fine so far, but I'm still kind of unhappy if this is going to be the new direction we go in.

Here's the setting excerpted from the book: https://img.fireden.net/tg/image/1449/15/1449152255310.pdf

How far can I raise my IQ using Mind?

>>53767885
Given that the scale of IQ caps at in theory 5 Int based on the system... Probably infinity because the scale isn't a good measure and would fall apart at 6+ dots.

>>53767885
As much as you can get your potency but in 2e awakening you require a mana and a reach to go over stat max.

>>53767885
For +2 reach and a point of Mana, as much Potency as you can muster.

I like to assume that Int 1 is an IQ of 80, and every new point is plus 20 IQ points.

>>53767558
Just state you didnt sign up for it, and how long is it going to go on for and if its from now on, then just leave the game. Stop being a salty bitch.

>>53768240
>>53768223
>>53767959

Imperial Mysteries discussed some suggested mechanical effects for stats over 5.

>>53767885
What do you mean by IQ? Do you mean learning ability or general knowledge?

>>53768456
Its still outside the scope of actual IQ, which at the higher levels adding more numbers just doesn't mean anything because its a scale of human 'intelligence', not super magic smart wizard 'intelligence'.

They're called reversal points. Its an interesting system, but I wouldn't really recommend it for 'normal' play really, maybe people who have spent XP to up their stats above 5, but it kinda unbalances things a tad if you allow stat buffs to provide them.

>Optional System: Reversal Points If you like, you might give hyper-competent characters possess “reversal points” to represent superior insight and preparation. Each reversal point allows a player to retroactively declare a basic (1 point – bodyguards were shadowing you in case of attack), moderate (2 points – your countersniper shoots the sniper), complex (3 points – “My spy network knew about this weeks ago”) preparation to deal with an event that has just been revealed in play, such as a betrayal or unexpected encounter.
>Your character possesses one reversal point for each dot in an Attribute or Skill above 5, and may only spend points when the situation would apply both to the linked Trait and the declared preparation. You may also spend points to nullify other characters’ reversal points on a 1 for 1 basis.
>Your character recovers all reversal points at the start of each game chapter.

>>53754507
scout

>page 10

i bet the vampfags did this

>>53760295
It doesn't, it's not part of the WoD.

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>>53760295
With impatient waiting for the new edition. But also it doesn't since it isn't part of the spookyverse as it were

>>53748244
For a serious answer. Heroes don't value human life beyond their utility to the Hero. They will sacrifice their allies in droves, attack innocent bystanders to draw out the Beast, and shit like that. Hunters actually equate them to Slashers.

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I leave you this offering, DaveB.
In the hope that you will tell us if there will be any more Signs of Sorcery spoilers before the book is eventually released...
Whenever that happens.

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>mfw found out Phalanx is a fighting style
So realistically how close to a Diablo 2 Amazon could you build a character? Are there any fluff groups/people like them?

>>53771889
OPP is kill.

>>53771889
>Signs of Sorcery
>actually released

You're funny Anon, now pull the other one...

Has anyone here been to WoD Berlin? How was the documentary?

What's wrong with mage 20? Why is revised better?

>>53772186
>Two dicks

I'm onto you, marine iguana

>>53772186
Much like Ascension, it is a beautiful impossibility.

>>53771889
Silly Komodo

One doesn't just call forth the Ochemata of Dave Brookshaw, real life Exarch.

>>53772222
FATHERS THRUSTING COCK

>>53772285
Hey, keep the faith. The stars aligned and Cursed Necropolis: Rio rose from the sands. Maybe an ancient, impossible tomb that some argue is Atlantean will be found with a copy of Signs of Sorcery.

>>53772222
>What's wrong with mage 20?

No room for necessary spellcasting and other rules, but space devoted for ttrpg culinary demands.
>>53760889

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>>53772222
The only good part of M20 were the changes to Foci/Instruments.
The inconsistencies regarding it actually works out quite nicely.

Best to lace Revised with the minor tidbits of M20 and utilize the pre-butchered lore/setting of 2nd Edition.
It is the only proper way to play Ascension in my honest opinion.

That and mixing Pillars from Dark Eras with the current Spheres.

Is there any reading I should do to give me better insight into the settings if I'm looking to do a bit of creative writing for WoD? Specifically looking for Kindred of the East, VtR and VtM.

I've read through the rulebooks but I don't think it does the settings justice, I'm going to guess VtM:B doesn't do VtM justice either.

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>>53740826
>Do you have any hopes for the Werewolf vidya?
Nope, but I'm going to buy it anyway

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>>53748172
>>53748131

>>53773651
Why are mages so cute?

>>53771392
Well it should be.

>>53774290
That would hurt the premises of both the CofD and Scion, given how they represent totally different genres and styles.

>>53774245
Because with forces and mind they look like whatever the fuck you want them to

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>>53773651

YOU KNOW WHAT THE WOLFDICK DESIRES, YOU FOOL

>>53774563
With life magic mages always have perfect boipucci

>>53774586
>boipucci

what the hell even is this? what's a boy puchy? it'd make sense if it was spelled boipussi but like this you sound like a retarded italian nigger

>>53740826
I'd like to make a game for a mystery plot around a detective player. What would you recommend, Mage or Vampire?

The game is to be set in the 1800's, like Sherlock Holmes. Is it possible to have Mage campaigns span over large timelines to have a campaign run over centuries like one would in Vampire?

What is your advice /tg/?

>>53775148

Vampire. Mages in either game poop on lesser mysteries.

>>53775148
Easier with Ascension then Awakening. Immortality is cheap in cMage and if you don't want to go that route you can play up the Avatars and Past Lives angle.

>>53775148
Mysteries are more thematically appropriate for mages than vampires.

But everyone here will tell you to go with vampires instead just out of spite.

>>53775517
Immortality in Ascension is easier, but the upkeep is harder and the drawbacks are ruthless in the long run.

>>53775148
Go with mummy or demon. Both lend themselves to mysteries naturally and are immortal so you can play it over decades and centuries

>>53775148
No other splat defines mysteries better than Mage

This shouldn't even be a question

>>53744221
>>53744269
>Not being a Scelesti and ripping your face off so you can feel the breeze of the cosmos better.

The unenlightened are truly droll.

>>53771904
Very, adamantine arrow mage obrimos with forces. Done.

>>53775148
>>53775148

>asking /tg/ if you should play mage or anything else

What were you expecting, really?

Wanted to ask, but can a Sin-Eater's Geist actually communicate with words to their Bound host? One of my friends insists that Geists can only nudge or prod, not actually say concrete words and I don't buy that, especially not from a high ranking ghost.

>>53778281
I think they do, but some are unable to speak.

>>53778461
Can I get proof of this? Like where it says in the text somewhere, because he's got a habit of interpreting any act of directing the Bound as a non-verbal communication, like a tingle or what not... so the Geist has basically no agency at all.

>>53778479
Not the same anon but on a quick look through the book on page 240 you have Unfettered Geists that can speak to others so no reason that normal geists couldn't

>>53778516
>"But that's for an UNBOUND Geist. The BOUND Geist do not speal."

This friend of mine is thick.

>>53778685
Srlsly. Ech I don't have time to read through the whole book but on page 88 in synergy section:

>No living being truly feels comfortable with the whispered voices of the dead offering “friendly advice.”

>>53778763
Oh believe me Anon, I'm not either. But his attitude makes the Geist almost irrelevant in roleplay, like you cannot roleplay the relationship at all if they cannot do more than "give you a tingle on your back".

>>53776135
mages will shit on all but the most insane mystery.
They just need 2 dots in arcana to know shit about most things.

>>53778841
Eh this is weird attitude to take imho. In Vampire you still have sort of relationship with your beast and unless you have Auspex all it does is tell you when its hungry,angry or afraid(or you can send it after people).

Geist while inhuman is still and inteligent being so even if unable to talk he should be able to convey meaning and complex ideas

>>53778891
>They just need 2 dots in arcana to know shit about most things.

They need only one dot. Knowing and Unveiling are one dot powers, and often easily solve any non-Mage mystery.

>>53778905
Well so far that synergy section seems have caused him to stop responding... So does that mean I win?

>>53778911
Well, they can tell you a lot of what, but frequently not a lot of how, or why.

I wanted to make a Hunter 'berserker' who specializes in vampires, but I wanted to steer away from melee weapons. Basically I ended up with something close to Frank Castle. I know guns are inefficient against vampires, but I kinda wanted "use more gun" to be his schtick. I figure with sufficiently powerful weapons, specialized rounds, and a lot of forethought, it shouldn't be too difficult to take down a vamp (by surprise), right?

>>53765114
There was a fan made group of manchurian candidate changeling hunters. Having two distinct personalities that were unaware of each other made them difficult to find.

>>53779287
Owod or Cofd?

>>53779442
Vigil

>>53779003
>Well, they can tell you a lot of what, but frequently not a lot of how, or why.

By way of natural abilities (Mage Sight), Arcana and occult and mundane resources, even a young mage, no less an experienced mage and/or a group of mages from different Paths, will almost always very quickly and easily solve mysteries designed for other splats.

This is entirely unsurprising as mages are considered the "detective splat," and their antagonists are often much more dangerous than those of other beings.

Including mages in any crossover scenario is a daunting prospect without gimping the mage or letting him steal the spotlight.

I'm very interested how the luminaries at OPP/WW intend to deal with the subject in the soon(tm) to be released Crossover Chronicles.

>>53779497
You are expecting to fight Vigilpire or a normal VtR one(and then vtr 1 or 2). In other words important question is how much your ST wants to fuck you over

>>53779521
Original OPs question was about what should he run as a mystery game so I would assume he is not crossovering and would create appropriate mystery depending on a splat he picks

>>53779537
Probably not too much. I'm more worried I'll be ineffective and get special treatment.

>>53779497
There are special rounds in Mortal Remains that deal lethal to everything and give 9 again.

>>53779577
Really? Shit, I have that book, too...
Thanks homie

>>53779574
Ok then I will assume vigilpire/1ed. As >>53779577 special rounds and what ever you compact/conspiracy can give you. Still overall best way is to track his haven and torch it during the day

>>53775148
I have done a few "mystery plots" in Mage. I would say, you have to up your ante significantly if you have a few Mages though, as their problem solving capabilities are unparalleled.

My usual design paradigm is to set a problem that is at least by premise impossible to solve, but then take no further effort towards making it more difficult or complicated.

I for instance, had them in a locked room mystery within an Atlantean ruin which shuffled who was in what role within the locked room mystery (One of the PCs started off dead on the ground with no context, which required them to invest a fair bit of faith in me) every time anyone "broke character".

>>53779577
>Compound Rounds
I mean they're kind of stupid because the whole thing about 'pure iron' hurting fae and 'pure silver' hurting werewolves goes out the window when you fuckin' mix them in a bullet

I'm not a very experienced player so forgive any shortcomings, but what's the point of playing Mage ?
Not trying to start up shit, I'm genuinely at a loss as to what's the fun in a splat in which starting characters trivialize any mysteries and can deal in the blink of an eye with any enemies that aren't literal gods
What's the appeal ? What kind of games do you even play with that kind of powerlevel ? It seems like it would go either full-on DBZ retardation or tedious political intrigue against other mages in a dice-rolling contest to see who can use the better mental protection to keep the cat inside the bag

>>53779823

Mages don't trivialize any mysteries, they just have a far different set of mysteries and adversaries than some other splats.

Mage is just a higher power game than CofD titles like Requiem or Changeling. Instead of "street-level" antagonists, mages face anti-reality horrors and literal gods.

This may or may not be your style of ttrpg play, but I find that it's good to have choices.

>>53779823
Because you don't actually start off that powerful.
Magefag discussions in these threads generally relate to the upper crust of Mage-dom, who have the power, resources and Gnosis to bend reality over their knee.

Prior to that, without a specially made character, you can really struggle to do something as simple as find out what someone's Virtue and Vice are.

Starting characters are Gnosis 1, and with an Arcanum at 1, that means their base dice pool, without any bonus spell factors, is 2.

>>53779823
Your enemies are other mages or similar probably more powerful creatures at the start of your mage career, as you progress theres always bigger fish that you are probably going to come into conflict with at soem point.

>>53779823
Its the difference between batman fighting some dude in gotham. And guardians of the galaxy going up against Thanos and crew.

Different power levels.

>>53779900
>>53779900
Come on, even if you start with gnosis 1 you must have at least 1 arcanum at 2 probably 3.

>>53779949
Yes, but that doesn't mean you can read the mind of some hardcore son of a bitch with Resolve.

That would impose a -6 penalty, to your dice pool of 3.
And given you can only use 2 yantras, you'll likely need both of them to be good ones, AND Willpower use to have much of a chance.

>>53780017
That should be Resolve 4.
Also I've seen many players take all their Arcana at 1-2.
It's not exactly the smartest choice, but if all you want is the lesser practices, it can work.

Starting Mages, unless specialised, can fail abysmally at some tasks that stronger Mages would laugh about.

>>53779895
>>53779900
>>53779913
>>53779926
I'm starting to get the picture, I guess
But do they have any unavoidable weaknesses ?
Every other splat has some kind of flaw (blood, rage, madness, etc ...) that's nigh inescapable, but mages don't seem to have that at all
Makes them seem too perfect for WoD
The theme of the game is definitely the unavoidability of pain and suffering, brought upon the individual on his own, and Mage seems to miss that
Am I wrong ?

Also for the guy who was talking about Guardians of the Galaxy
If I base myself on what you're telling me, it's the complete opposite if Mage
The protags are all fairly weak supernaturals and they just keep failing forward because the Plot wills it, they're clearly outmatched and win despite all odds (which makes it a horrible movie, and frankly I don't gzt how people can gobble up that shit)

>>53780219
Paradox. Mages have to temper themselves in the presence of Sleepers or they risk Paradox and Wisdom hits.

>>53780219
Use your Magic around sleepers, and you drive them insane. And your own Wisdom starts to slip.

So it enough, your soul irrepairably cracks and you go Mad.

Same thing happens for extreme feats of Hubris.
Problem being, methods which are Hubristic are generally the best way to learn stuff.

>>53780245
But that's entirely avoidable and you can circumvent it by spending a minute to think of a way to produce the desired effect indirectly
It's a false check on mages' power because it doesn't limit their power, it doesn't make them lose control, it's basically just an invitation to metagame

This is what's bothering me the most honestly, Mages seem to be able to grow in power exponentially without any kind of backlash, as long as they don't go full retard and start slinging fireballs in public

>>53779788
It's just magic bullets man.

>>53780309
You get Paradox dice for over-reach as well dude.
And the higher your Gnosis, the more you get for each excess Reach.

So starting Mages can go nuts with excess Reach, and risk very little.

While Gnosis 5+ Mages have to try and push their spell factors as far as they can go, without spending non-free Reach, or spend loads of mana to counteract the Paradox dice.

>>53780309
If you have a good storyteller then it's not. I'm playing a cross-splat game that involves most of the books, and our mages are quite powerful, but still limited in what they can do.

You can't just let the players run amok.

>>53780382
Mind sharing what is the overall plot? How did the crossteam got together and what is going on since stories of good crossovers are few and far between

>>53780309
It doesn't matter how direct or indirect the spell is, if a Sleeper is watching you, it risks Paradox.
You also risk Paradox by overreaching on the spells you cast, trying to wring not power from your spells than you can control. Avoiding doing that is easier said than done, as well.
Really though, you're kinda hung up on there being an external check on mages, and there isn't much of one. That's kinda the point; it's the Stanford Prison Experiment in tabletop form.

>>53780430
>>53780357
Still sounds very mary-sue-ish compared to what the other splats have to put up with
But if that's the point...
>>53780382
Can you give some examples of fruitful and efficient integration of mages into the larger WoD then ?
I feel like practical applications would be more telling

In any case, I might do away with mages in general and stick to sorcerers, shamans and ceremonial magicians, who fit WoD better (in my opinion)
Any suggestions for that ? I know Second Sight has some stuff on the subject, wondering if there's more

>>53772476

Thanks. We played revised before and now mage 20 but other than a few moved skills etc I don't see a difference, but that may be because we didn't read the book? Well, I didn't read either book. I just roll what they tell me to roll. It's nice.

Any more examples?

>>53780426
I joined the game a ways in when they started; there are about nine of us, and we run it with two DMs because it's a lot to handle. We're a group of friends that have been RPing and writing together for a long time but even then it's arduous, but addictive.

The campaign was inspired by Stranger Things, because it had just come out. It began with everyone as normal humans. The lives of a group of college-age kids playing D&D in an apartment were upset when a strange monster broke in and abducted their friend. They set out to find him; a couple of kids, a cop, and a doctor from the local hospital. From what I heard they ran around town for months chasing down leads, and encountering new factions and night folk. By the time they had tracked the beast down and killed it, their friend was gone-- abducted by a powerful Moros mage for reasons unknown.

The doctor was eventually revealed to be the leader of the local vampires, one of the kids died in a motorcycle chase and became a Geist, and the mage just obliterated the cop. He also became a geist. Another one of the kids got abducted by the Fae and spent a few months in Arcadia, then came back within days in real time. Another kid hooked up with a local master-dude and became a mage apprentice. During the search they also met up with some werewolves who had moved into the area, looking for an artifact that might have been tied to the mage. Everyone agreed to help one another so that all the tasks could be more easily done. So by the time I came in, there was only one regular human left.

And then I came in, playing a redneck ex-marine who won the lottery and moved to the area so that he could find and kill Bigfoot.

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>>53780426
Seconding this

>>53780674

>>53780625
So it was two geists, two werewolves, one vampire, two humans, one mage, and one changeling. At first. Suffice to say, combat could be nightmarish with everyone combing through the splats when necessary.

>>53780482
As an avid Mage fan, I will say if you're not running Mage, use Dread powers or Second Sight to make your witches and wizards. Mage is plenty enough bleak and horrifying for the World of Darkness, but it doesn't cross into other games well.

>>53780727
Well thanks for the explanations
I still have trouble seeing the fun in all that, but I guess it boils down to personal taste

Also if you don't mind more questions :
How to geek the mage ?
Can humans or other splats hope to go toe to toe with a mage, or is an indirect approach safer ?

>>53773417
Anything for this? I almost want to write a Kindred of the East Jumpchain since the Kuei-Jin interest me. Is there a reason for me not to do this? Is KotE shitty? Also I want to writefag for the VtR jump.

>>53780825

First and foremost, it's very unlikely that a character will even know the mage is a mage. The Quiescence prevents anyone without a supernatural merit, without any exception, from remembering any supernal magic at all. Even watch a video or reading an account triggers memory alteration or loss.

And, yes, it's possible to kill a mage, although very difficult. Mages' powers are very varied and quite strong. Don't assume you can surprise them, know that many have insta-kill spells that can affect an area or multiple targets, virtually all mages have one or more means to quickly escape danger, and all have some forms of reflexive Mage Armor.

If a mage escapes and seeks revenge, the assailant might as well update his will and commit suicide, for the alternative is to ghastly to contemplate.

Also, mages are very social beings and group together for mutual protection. If you manage to kill one, don't be surprised if his cabal or friends decide to retaliate. Again, magic ensures there are fates far worse than death, and your loved ones might now be targets.

If you manage to know about mages and decide to hunt them, your career will likely be very short, painful and messy. It's certainly possible, but the risks invariably outweigh the rewards.

>>53780825
It depends on the type of mage you're up against, but direct can work. Low level mages are manageable with some difficulty, as the simple presence of the Hunters can make their spells go wonky. High level mages aren't going to be stopped by human hunters, barring cases of massive retardation on the part of the mage.

I'm trying to make a vampire be friends with my mage. I used mind to charm him for the story but I want him as an ally. He's a nosferatu who can control rats and turn invisible if that helps. I don't know much about vampires. It's owod/mage20 so vampire20 rules if it matters.

Also there's a chance he's blood bonded to a bad guy, but we're gonna kill that guy hopefully. If not, is there a way to break that? Just in case. Thanks

>>53740826
>I'm trying to enslave a vampire through magic
ftfy