8th Edition Chaos Marines

Do you know how expensive that is?
Terminators are a poor frontline unit because of their cost, sure you will get first blood but all the opponent needs to do is stay 12 inches away with his vehicles to completely negate everything you are trying to do

Go for a lord and 2 groups of 5 terminators with either a heavy flamer or a gignigga autocannon, mixing a few combis in there to complement the cannon is a better option than autist spam, plus you get to use the lords rerolls and he himself is a beast, that plus a sorcerer is a nasty backfield unit that has to be dealt with, rather than just avoided

>>53716602
The warptime helps keep up and just be a tough nuisance. plus they are flexible and i don't mind paying for them in a 75/100 power list. I was thinking of keeping my Lord with my bikers with flamers and chainswords and maybe a couple of preds for longrange support and some cultist spam for backline objectives.

Am I wrong in thinking that Warptime overwrites the no movement rule for new deepstrike?

Coming back to 8th after leaving in 5th.
Is 2 troops + hq still a thing?

>>53717098
for the smallest detachment now (the patrol detachment), its 1 HQ and 1 Troop choice.

>>53717138
So 20 berserker and lord on juggernaut is a workable starting point?

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Played my friend today as guard at 2k points 8e, I managed to table him turn 3 and he was moaning how his thousand sons are shit now and are bottom tier. Is he just being a moron?

>>53717186
yea, https://webapplications-webroster.rhcloud.com/rc/web/#!/rosterCreator here, not completed but its got all the detachments.

>>53717217
Thank you.

>>53717216
Psychic isn't as abusable now but as far as im concerned the game is pretty balanced atm. What did he have in his list?

>>53717216

TS were mid-tier pre-8th and are either the same or a but worse now whereas Guard range from good to WAAC tier depending now depending on what you take.

>>53716602
this.

actual games will tell. but it looks like over specialising is easy to do in 8e.

if I'm playing a gaunt horde say my 150 gaunts are going to just laugh at 10 combi meltas. take some antitank stuff. but don't take only that for your big hammer unit.

>>53717378
thats what the 3 groups of bikers with flamers and chainswords are for. Remember the termies don't have to drop till turn 3.

Am I the only one to think that Chaos is now the king of DISTRACTION CARNIFEXes ?
I mean, just imagine
2x10 berzerkers in rhinos
Maulerfiend
Abaddon
5 termies with combi plasmas and mauls
Bike sorcerer with combi flamer
Bloodcrushers
Herald on skull throne
Bloodletters
3 bikers with 2 flamers
Lord of skulls
Renegade knight

Threat saturation looks like the way to go this edition, imho

>>53719877
>das face when ur disctraction distracts from ur distractions

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NEW FUCKING CHAOS UNDIVIDED MODELS WHEN?! OR AM I GONNA HAVE TO FUCKING CONVERT THOSE FAGGOT PRIMARIS MARINES MYSELF IN ORDER TO HAVE NON SHIT LOOKING CHAOS

will heldrakes be good? I'm planning on buying one

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>>53716011

Honestly, 10 combi-bolters is actually pretty fucking legit for the price, especially compared to the 11-19 price of combi-weapons. It's 370pts for 10 termies with bolters and swords/mauls.

Here's the list I'm shooting for, personally. I might shuffle the havocs around and do 2 LC and 2 AC per squad so that its not an all or nothing deal. Thanks to splitfire, it doesn't matter where the weapons are.

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>>53716975

Psychic phase is after movement, so I think it checks out.

>>53716011
I'm thinking of running chosen with flamers and power weapons while haovcs cover the slack with plasma, is this a good idea

>>53721188
I think plasma is good especially for the new supercharge, you can re roll 1s to hit near the lord so take full advantage

>>53720836
desu I don't think 60 cultists is required, and 2 squads of termies is overkill for what they do. Go down to 40 and 1 squad of 10 termies or 2 5 man squads. And get some heavy hitters in there, vindicators/preds/defilers/fiends.

>>53722455
why the fuck did I write desu?

>>53722455
Originally, it was 3 squads of 10 for the troop option, then I shuffled around the ablative wounds to fit in something else, cut back again to tickle the autism and even out the squads, and was left with 150pts exactly, which is why I doubled them up. Then, it was pointed out that I couldn't Deepstrike everything, so I split up a cultist squad.

The thing with every heavy hitter you've mentioned is that I don't own any of those. I do have contemptors/brutes and a dreadclaw, though. I can also field missile havocs or another squad of Autocannons.

As for the terminators, one big squad is for prescience and warprime. It's also a unit of 10 Ld9 squad of 2W 2+/5++ models. The second squad is the second wave. Not everything has to come down immediately. If my opponent dumps a of fire into my termies, great. I have another waiting to play ball later along with raptors to join the fun, too. I'm honestly not expecting to drop much on T1. The sorc and Termies for sure and maybe the lord if I don't save him for wave 2. The raptors are to prey on what the havocs damage unless I feel comfortable nuking something without much retaliation.

I can take a 150pt unit if I drop to minimum cultists, or a 200pt troop choice.

>>53722481
Outing yourself as a newfag, I see.

>>53722481
tg uses word filters on certain phrases

>>53722723
Don't normally post on tg. I think if anything, id replace the raptors and drop the cultists down to min squads. Having too much coming down in deepstrike just hamstrings your boardstate too much, your opponent pretty much has free roam to set up and make it hard for your stuff to hit the targets they want to and they are more free to move up their fast units uncontested. Id fork out for some more units, mauler fiends are really fucking strong.

>>53722404
The thing is, giving them plasma feels like you aren't taking advantage of their their increased number of attacks compared to standard csms. This is compounded by how cheap power weapons are, which chosen can take in abundance

>>53722723
Plus the main reason you would want to deepstike the termies in is to get an easy first blood/ distract for a couple of turns, so if you're going 2 squads you want something to back up turn 2/3 not just more of the same stuff. If you can get in and back up the termies then you have a good advantage. 12" movement on mauler-fiends are a good way to go.

>>53722481

welcome gamefaqs/ribbit/etc

>>53720172
Join a cult, faggot.

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>>53720172
I fear we'll have to convert..and then deal with people asking why we have primaris size chaos marines and constantly explaining that they are just stand ins for normal csm.. and then there'll be that one guy who says its not allowed for reasons

I'm trying to decide between Noise marines and Rubrics as the core of my otherwise Raptor-heavy army. Both end up about the same points cost once weapon upgrades are paid for - the NM have far more dakka, but the Rubrics are tougher, and actually have nice plastics.

Help me out

I've been out of the loop for years, 8th ed scans where

>>53724965
>Being out of the loop for so long you forget how to google

I've dug up my old models, is 3 squads of foot slogging csm and a squad of 8 thousand sons still a viable base for an army?

>>53725048
If you fancy paying for some rhinos and shit yea

>>53725060
I've got 1 rhino and a defiler, I used to offset them with raptors, bikes, Leman Russ and a land speeder. I'm just waiting for a new list builder. (I had the Russ cause a cousin gave me some Space Wolves and I kit bashed them into my warband)

>>53725143
https://webapplications-webroster.rhcloud.com/rc/web/#!/rosterCreator this one is alright, not fully updated to 8th tho,

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What do we think the dreadclaw is going to be for 8th?

Oh hey, so I just noticed that the Noise Marine champion has the same starting loadout as the rest of the squad, and can be given a sonic blaster instead of the usual champion fare.

This could very well be a perfectly valid option, as for the same price as a power sword, he instead gets something that is arguably going to get more use in a MSU shooty squad - instead of MAYBE one or two combat phases worth of slightly-better melee attacks, it'll give at least three or four shooting phases of cover-ignoring dakka. What's more, if he ends up biting the dust, he'll get full benefit from the Music of the Apocalypse rule

>>53725344
>everyone playing 2000 point games on the 16th
>it's ok, FW occasionally breaks their own release date, I'll find out the rules for half my army in time
>nobody saying theirs has been shipped
>digital version not even listed with a release date
>can't play on the 17th itself because store will be at overcapacity for X-wing tournament
I have 6 days still but I'm concerned I'm going to miss out.

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Why is everything so fucking expensive pointwise in chaos now.

Every wargear seems seems anoyingly unevenly pointed when regarding the fiends and other engines expecially.
Muh Seekers might haven gotten better but dear god I wish I could have my good old horde back.

Also jesus fuck the Traitor knight is expensive.

>>53725418
Flick through the loyalist index sometime - we have the exact same points value for our wargear as the loyalist Space Marines do, and our units are likewise priced similarly. Sternguard are 16 a pop, going up to 19 with their boltguns. Compare to Rubrics - 20pts with inferno bolters, slightly lower range but a hell of a lot tougher.

The difference between a Helbrute and a stock-standard Dreadnought is all of 2 points, and I'd argue that the Helbrute is the better unit, especially in melee.

We're doing just fine with our points values

Guys, help me out with finishing this list off:

2000pts, Emperor's Children

Daemon Prince w/ wings, twin claws, warp bolter - 187pts

Lord w/ jump pack, twin lightning claws - 106pts

Noise marine squad: champ w/ sonic blaster, four w/ sonic blasters, one w/ blastmaster - 144pts

Noise marine squad: champ w/ sonic blaster, four w/ sonic blasters, one w/ blastmaster - 144pts

Noise marine squad: champ w/ sonic blaster, four w/ sonic blasters, one w/ blastmaster - 144pts

Noise marine squad: champ w/ sonic blaster, four w/ sonic blasters, one w/ blastmaster - 144pts

Noise marine squad: champ w/ sonic blaster, four w/ sonic blasters, one w/ blastmaster - 144pts

Raptors: champ w/ twin lightning claws, two w/ plasma pistols, three w/ chainswords - 129pts

Raptors: champ w/ twin lightning claws, two w/ plasma pistols, three w/ chainswords - 129pts

Raptors: champ w/ twin lightning claws, two w/ plasma pistols, three w/ chainswords - 129pts

Helbrute w/ scourge & lascannons - 165pts

Helbrute w/ scourge & lascannons - 165pts

Predator w/ quad lascannons - 202pts

= 1932pts, not sure where to put the last 68 points

So I notice we got Fallen in the core book now. How do they play? Just worse Chosen?

>>53725738
They look incredibly badass for the points cost - only 14pts base (comparatively to 13 for CSM, 16 for chosen) for 2 attacks base, a decent spread of weapon options, and the Fallen Angels special rule - re-rolling 1s to hit when shooting they didn't move, and they can't loose more that 1 model at a time for failed morale tests.

Holy crap, these guys are fantastic, they're better than Chosen. Only thing they lack is the <legion> keyword, so no buffs from basic Lords

>>53725661
Is it worth going double claws on the lord and sarges? I mean, they have the fly keyword, so they get to shoot after hit-n-running. Might be worth giving them something shooty, no? I'm looking at combi-flamers. Might be better than an additional attack, no?

>>53716011
10 man termys with trailing termy lord and combi-plasma spam. I've been abusing rerolls of 1 since forever.

>>53727982
Costs like a bridge though.

>>53723702
People always talk about converting loyalist halves from boxed games and it never looks good.

Why don't people just gs the CSM legs to make them taller instead of doing half assed push fit conversions?

>>53727926
You are probanly in grenade range when it would matter

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>>53728038
It's easier to use fantasy warriors?

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>>53716011
2x full noise marine squads and a Sorcerer. So each squad has an Icon, 17x sonic blasters, 2x Blastmasters and the Champ is going to have a Doom Siren, Power Sword and Plasma Pistol. Yeah it's far from optimized but I'm going out in a bang

>>53728361
Still though. Combi-flamer is only 2 points over a claw and it gives a few more options. I think. I can't decide.

With Daemon Princes being characters, are they subject to the rule that says that characters can't be shot at unless if they're the closest enemy unit?

>>53728038
well im talking more about the non-pushfit primaris models that i imagine will get released much sooner than csm truescales

The pushfits are too much hassle

>>53728569
Yes, but only the CSM ones. Daemon ones have too many wounds.

>>53722481
B R O becomes desu, chad

>>53725812
They also can't go in a rhino

>>53722918
You have to go back

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>>53728532
While our box set is crazy old using Chaos Warriors also has problems.
The shoulder joint is fabricated into the two piece main body of the model, youd have to snap that apart or shorten the arms for the curved elbow joint for every single model.

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Per point, what is our most effective melee unit?
Or is the better question, what is our most cost effective way to chop up marines in CC?

Also am I crazy or did Plague marines go from 2 attacks in CC (bolt pistol+plague knife) to hust the one (since plague knife does not carry the stipulation of making another CC attack like the chainsword?)

Also since power weapons of nearly every variety have gone way down in price, is running CC chosen plausible?

>>53720172
Gotta push out a whole new loyalist marine army first.

>>53729370
Apparently power fist chosen is one of our best tank killing units for their points

>>53729370
>Per point, what is our most effective melee unit?
Berzerkers
>Or is the better question, what is our most cost effective way to chop up marines in CC?
Berzerkers

>>53729417
Kinda obvious, isn't it?

>>53729435
It doesn't get much better than just straight up being able to attack twice.

>>53720172
Undivided will not get anything. Nurgle will get pretty much removed from csm with their DG faction.
The rest of CSM will get Khorne shoven down the throat until they too are ready to form a seperate faction.

I'm so sick of this shit. As if CSM was not fucked up enough already, now you either have to field lots of zerkers or not play anything chaos at all.

>>53729417
Chainsword+axe or axe+bpistol? Any special weapons? Champ loadout? Any ideas?

>>53729489
I mean. You can play Slaanesh pretty well now. And tzeenchians are getting their own codex and a primarch. Don't know what you're complaining about.
And Undivided will get a whole bunch of legions to play with.

>Helbrute with Twin Lascannon and a Power Scourge
>232 pts
I messed something up, right?

>>53729595
legions with shitty units (because nothing got buffed any meaningful way) and no legion rules (cause Traitors hate is invalidated)

>>53729490
Chainsword hits harder than a bolt round and benefits from fighting twice, so I would say swords and axes

>>53729891
I said "will" didn't I? Indexes are just a temporary measure, they will release codices with warlord traits, artifacts and stratagems.

r8 my 1k list
https://webapplications-webroster.rhcloud.com/rc/web/#!/rosterCreator

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>>53730409
>forgot image because retard

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>>53729370
Berzerkers should be the best. BuT aRE tHeY?

>>53730434

I think your 10pts short and lightning claws are 5pts more than a powersword/maul

So if I am understanding. I can have a battleforge army of death guard units with chaos termis, but the only inconvenient is that they dont get any bonus? Is that correct?

>>53730642
Pretty much.

Which unit is more effective for it's points: Berzerkers or Noise Marines?

>>53731095
It all depends if you want more melee or dakka.

Should berserker champions bother with power fists or just stick to chain axes?

>>53728925

Clever ruse BRO

>>53728532
>>53729303

WTF I THOUGHT CONVERTING CHAOS WARRIORS INTO ALPHA LEGION WAS MY ORIGINAL IDEA DONUT STEEL, fuck i even ordered the boxset, are chaos warriors common replacement for chaos astartes?

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This okay?

>>53716011
Anyone know a site where they're selling Chaos Predators? Both GW and my FLGS are out, and I'd rather not use the loyalist variant.

Ok have any of you played with hellbrute already?
I want to try out Plasma cannon but Im not sure about it since it can dmg me on 1s.

Oh and one more thing, how do you calculate cost on vehicles now? Do I have to pay points for his basic multimelta and than add pts for plasma cannon ?

>>53716011
Im kind of new to 40K lore and i have a question. How much force do you need to chop into a Space marine's head? It only takes something like 5 pounds of pressure to cut skin, but if you were to line up a straight down chop to the skull could an average person hit brain tissue?

>>53733540
Depends on who you ask.

>>53733709
This isnt the anwser I wanted or need. You cant see it but im making a grumpy face at you.

>>53733764
Depending on author, muhrenes can die as easily as your average guardsman or they may tank dozens of krak missiles and laugh at meltas.
All comes down to your personal head canon.

>>53733835
>head cannon
I saw what you did there. Ok, from now on an unhelmeted SM can have his head split by a very very strong human. This is the new law.

>>53733764
>>53733764
>This isnt the anwser I wanted or need.
This the answer you deserved.

Is there any hope of a daemonengine based army in the future? I love the Dark Mechanicum and its "fuck it I will just cheat" approach to robotics, but daemonengines always lack the offensive oomph needed to be viable as a solo force.

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>>53731724
Yes, but without proper conversion they mostly look like this.

>>53725418
Don't need to play with points anymore, unless you wanna play matched. Just play open with the power levels, you only pay for the models and you can kit them out how you wish

>>53739167
Power levels are terrible and have little to no balance.

>>53716011
I'm planning on expanding upon my existing force, mostly going in different directions for some variety.

I've got a sizable amount of Slaanesh marines. Right now my plan is to pick up some Khornate stuff along with tanks. A Predator built for as many shots as possible seems particularly fun.

>>53730434
Too much foot slogging to be useful, from experience, ditch the marines and get back line cultists and get some rhinos with havoc launchers for your noise marines. Something to keep up with the fiend is always good cause they will focus it 9/10.

>>53739308
Well try going against new crons you'll wish you where using power levels.

>>53717217
>https://webapplications-webroster.rhcloud.com/rc/web/#!/rosterCreator here

looks good, but there are no armybooks to select for 8th

So what do we think is the best way to run Predators? Auto & heavy bolters, or go full lascannon spam?

>>53725181
I'm unable to select any books on the 8th ed version.
Help?

So, seeing how good zerkers have become, is it a good moment to start a WE/KDK army?

>>53725418
>now
Hahahahahahahahahahaha

No seriously, where the fuck have you been that you thought Chaos was ever anything but overcosted? That's been their gimmick since 3rd Edition, and if anything this is the closest we've ever been to fair point costs. Odd ducks like Obliterators and Forgefiends are still pricey for what you get, but as >>53725515 said our Elites choices actually weigh in pretty fucking favourably.

>>53731724
It's uncommon enough to grab attention.

>>53742083
Dunno about the WE part. Kharn is retarded. And you will be missing out on sorcerers. And zerks could use that additional move. I'd go with Black Legion with zerks, raptors/talons and sorcs, maybe a DP to buff daemons and csm.

>>53723702
People forget space marines have always varied in size. In some situations, quite drastically.

>>53742276
Holy shit stop living in the past

>>53716011
>100% First Blood
Agreed! Itll be an excellent ranging shot for my Basilisks!