Is imperial guard viable in 8th edition ?

File: 20170608_205756.jpg (3MB, 4128x2322px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 4128x2322px

>>53707648
It's relevant to my interests.

>>53707648
Somebody will no doubt tell you it will be 200+ conscripts backed up by a Commissar and a Priest. Don't fall for that meme: one or two units of that stuff is fine but don't go make your entire Army consist of that.

People will tell you Leman Russes are trash. While they have dropped in effectiveness, they're still worth taking. Just don't depend solely on them to do all your killing for you. Instead, rely on:

Everything from earlier editions is just as effective and cheap (points wise) as it always has been in previous editions.

The Punisher became non-viable, versus what it was (Pasknisher).

I'm excited about conscripts but mostly in a modeling sense so I can make beastmen cannon fodder and they can atone for their birth-sin against the Emperor without having to pay the PCS & Squad tax.

I'm IRL mad that my mechvets now have to call themselves Scions. Hoping the DKoK Grenadiers will be troop choices so I can have my guys back.

>>53707789
Why not use a vanguard detachment?

>>53707735
>I'm excited about conscripts but mostly in a modeling sense so I can make beastmen cannon fodder and they can atone for their birth-sin against the Emperor

Oh this is an awesome idea. Can I steal it? It's inspired me to model non-chaos mutants.

>>53707842

Oh yeah, it's not mine though. Loyalist beastmen is reall oldfluff, like Rogue Trader/Space Marine (Epic 1.0) stuff.

>>53707842
There was a chapter approved in the WD about it once

>>53707648
Scions have the option to take two specials per five troopers at nearly half their old points cost. You can feel tactical as shit by stuffing two 5-man squads in the same chimera with a company commander and pretending they're two fireteams with an nco. That said the chimera is kind of second fiddle to the taurox prime now. 108pts gets you two autocannons and a heavy20 horde thinner. It's faster than the chimera, too, but it's a little more expensive, toughness 6 (vs chimera's 7), and it lacks the 12-man capacity so you can't bring characters along. You can kinda get around that last bit by taking tempestors and just deepstriking them when your scions disembark, which is metal as hell but a bit beardy.

Vets might still have a place since they can take a heavy flamer in addition to their special weapons and shotguns are s4 at point blank. I haven't had a chance to run them yet but I'm looking forward to it.

Conscripts and mortars are a meme for a reason. Besides their damage output relative to their points cost, you NEED bodies to screen your guns. Three termagants can run up to your scary gun tank, tag it like home base and make it useless for a turn. Conscripts babysat by a couple of commisars can keep your heavy weapons firing all game for ~200pts. Infantry squads aren't as good at sticking around or getting in the way, but you can throw cheap heavy bolters or autocannons in to help with weight of fire.

Russes are still kind of mediocre. That's really been a constant as long as I've been playing so I dunno what to tell you. They're a big damage soak but they're also a point sink relative to other options. You know there has to be an armored company datasheet in the works so hopefully we'll get something like ace crews to improve the russ's shooting. Fingers crossed.

Dust off your basilisks, hellhounds and hydras, that is all. Manticores and wyverns are OK too, and they get snazzy new synergy with a master of ordnance, but...basilisks. Goddamn.

>>53707937
One more thing: you're going to go second. Just accept it. Unless you've got half your army stuffed into a stormlord you're going to have more units than your opponent. Deploy your chaff units first, try to delay putting down your firepower units until you know where they'll be out of sight or at least obscured. Use one of your many command points to re-roll the die to seize and recite a litany or something.

>>53707910
Cool

>>53707715
Am I the only one who thinks the Russ has gotten killier in 8th?

Used to be anything shooting pie plates weren't worth their points because there was nothing worth while for them to shoot at.

>>53708267
Killier VS other vehicles and monsters? Yes (depending on Cannon)

Killier VS the footsloggers they used to pie plate to death? No.

And the latter reason is why some grogards will declare Russes are now trash. They haven't figured that the Russ's role has changed to shoot other hardened enemies now.

>>53707648
For now, yes I'd say they are fairly strong. People overstate how strong certain infantry builds are, but they are definitely good this edition.

Scions
Vets
Bullgryn
Rough Riders
Scout Sentinels
Basilsiks
Creed, Yarrick, Harker, Straken
Heavy Weapon Squads
Manticores
Punisher
Taruox Prime with Gatling
Demolisher against single wound targets
Conscripts
Commissars
Infantry squads
Cheap power weapons and plasma

That's everything that's really strong this edition. Orders are strong too. Keep in mind, codices for armies will be released later, so we may see a power decrease vs other armies. Right now, indexes only, Guard are up there.

>>53708378

Which is, you know, what tanks are *SUPPOSED* to be doing?

>>53707789
I'm okay losing my 4+ save on my Vets. They got a lot more fire power now. Before I'd just take 2 special weapons to shoot out the top hatch. Now I put in 3 special, 1 heavy flamer and 1 heavy weapon. Plasma death squads are also cheaper.

But I get it, if you have carapace models, you want the 4+ save. But hey, at least if you take a squad of 10 Scions, your guns are -2 AP and you can put an Astropath + Platoon Commander in the Chimera with you to get a 3+ armor save, ignore cover on a unit from the Astropath and you get orders from the Commander.

>>53708532

Yeah, but I have to re-write my Only War regiment and re-kajigger the regimental kit and Hellguns are absurdly expensive.

>>53708267
being able to actually use your sponsons is a welcome change

>>53708378
Nobody I knew ever fielded mass blobs, at most one guy had lots of smaller units of daemonettes spread out, the rest was tanks and monstrous creatures for the most part. The basilisks I had also seemed largely useless point sinks 90% of the time.

Only time they seemed usefull was for tearing apart huge blobs of orks that one guy fielded once before he shelved his army.

>>53708564
Why do you have to re-write it if you're only doing a count as? Plus you don't have to count them as anything. Veterans with the Elite based detachment is still strong.

>>53707830
Vets don't get carapace anymore. So you can't do mechanized grenadiers like before so to get the same effect you need to use scions, but they cost more.

>>53708591

You're right. I just really hate the fucking nu-fluff grimderpery about the Stormtroopers and that's not particularly fair or even necessarily accurate (my skulgun is that there are two tiers of Scholae, and the ones the MT book describes is the system for people just above the "Servitor-bait" level).

As nice as the plastic kit is, they never should have become a separate codex, and they certainly should have been gimderped like that.

>>53707937
What's that military axiom? Infantry wins battles, artillery wins wars.

Quick question. If I shoot a plasma cannon on supercharge with a sentinel and I roll a 1, does that mean regardless of wounds count that sentinel is going down?

Likewise with Leman Russ executioner?

>>53708673
Lore-wise I agree. I do, however, prefer their new aesthetic. I know many don't. But I think their new look makes them look old but new but not but sci-fi all at the same time the way 40k is. The old storm troopers looked like generic elite sci-fi soldiers.

>>53708749
Yes to Sentinel, no to Executioner. Russes have a rule where it only loses 6 wounds when you roll a 1.

>>53708673
Well the kit isn't going anywhere and the separate codex is "gone" and I doubt they will make a new one, so that's a step.

>>53708779
I think I'll use them as a basis for converting my vostroyan vets, given they are pretty gothic already.

>>53708503
By modern real life tank standards, yes.

But grognards are grognards who hate change, and so Leman Russes no longer being the infantry killers they once were is unacceptable to them.

>>53708780
Sweet sassy molassy. That's some dangerous stuff. I wonder how the stormblade will fare.

>>53708579
Awesome

>>53708673
I've been gone from 40k for a while. What did the fluff do to the stormyroopers.

>>53708798
>>53708779
>>53708673
I agree, hate the lore, but I also like the models a lot. I always fluff my own troopers as just elite soldiers trained to deepstrike in and stuff like that.

As for their own codex before, they only did that because they were supposed to be an allied force for the rest of the Imperium, not a stand alone army.
>>53708831
It's dangerous but there are work arounds. Executioners can get Tank orders to re-roll 1s. Sentinels have the <Regiment> tag so you can have Harker nearby if you label your guys <Catachan>. Yarrick also gives re-rolls of 1 to all nearby Guard units.

>>53708869

It made the Progenia, graduates of the schools erected for the children of those fallen in loyal service to the Holy Throne into braindead Kriegers.

>viable

They are going to be one of the their 0 tournament topping armies for tryhards.

>>53708963
That's definitely overstated. Guard will be good, but not top tier, nor will they win tournaments. They will be mid-high tier at best, especially after the codex comes out.

>>53708955
Fuck.

Why can't Stormtroopers just be Guardsmen with a little more training, experience, gear, and marksmanship? I know that's what vets already are but Stormtroopers can be a more formalized cadre in the fluff (whereas vets are more informal and shuffled around the regiment as needed), and each Stormtroopers regiment can be run differently as according to whoever they are attached to.

It really should be that easy.

Remove ratling.

File: IMG_0748.jpg (243KB, 800x1113px) Image search: [Google]

243KB, 800x1113px

>>53709105
That's what I liked about vet grenadiers. They really made the "best of the regiment" kinda soldiers. I always fielded my old Kasrkin minis as vet grenadiers instead of storm troopers.

Would love to see plastic vostroyans with pic related as their carapace sporting vet grenadiers.

File: 1469444554603.png (155KB, 853x543px) Image search: [Google]

155KB, 853x543px

>>53708267
LMR used to win me games, it worked great against anything that wasnt a flyer or a monster. Vanquisher Pask was pretty good aswell.

I current edition LMRs are shit because you wont be hitting anything you roll around 3 shots on average and then you have to roll hit with the said shots. You dont wound most stuff with 2s anymore and pretty much anything can get a save against the battlecannon. In 7th i could wipe out a marine squad with a single hit, now its literally impossible to get more than 6 wounds in a horde with BC.

Its also worth noticing that all twin-linked guns got double the amount of shots, except exterminator.

RRs got better so there would be more than 50 people in the world who play them, however they still die to overwatch.

>>53708378
>le grognards meme

The hardened targets get wounded on 3's at best and they usually get a save, you also need to roll to hit whereas in 7th you needed a scratch on the big targets base. LMR is trash now. Punisher is ok and Demolisher too.

>>53708471
Explain how are these units good. Taurox Prime with gatling and Manticores combined with master of ordnance I get but others seem just as shit or shittier than before.

Also Vendettas gone, lel.

>>53708503
When you fire a tank round into a blob of 30 dudes, it probably kills more than 4. Funny how people go from "this is how it works in real life" to "its just a game" faster than you can say cuck. Besides LMR was ok anti-tank in previous editions due BC being ordnance weapon.

>>53709178
You're an idiot. Everything you say is disregarded.

File: 1466808453372.jpg (62KB, 396x691px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 396x691px

>>53709178
>all twin-linked guns got double the amount of shots, except exterminator

It's even more expensive than the battle cannon now.

>>53708824
Making the most iconic vehicle in IG (and which most guard players own) into a piece of shit is a legit reason to be mad. In non-tourney games you can always do counts-as, but some players might be autistic about that too.

File: reee (2).jpg (45KB, 917x960px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 917x960px

>>53709220
Thanks GW(c)

>>53709178
And how many 8th edition games have you played with an LMR to actually test all this conjecture?

>>53709244
Battle Cannon is still pretty decent for single targets and for its long range. Mostly people own a Demolisher too and that's really good against single targets. My personal preference is Demolisher, Punisher and Eradicator as the top 3.

>>53709244
It's not shit though

>>53709176
>pic related
Look more like Valhallans to me.

File: reee (3).jpg (18KB, 600x489px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 600x489px

>>53708718
Infantry wins firefights, tanks win battles (not anymore though !), artillery wins wars.

What >>53709244 says is correct. The LRBT isn't shit in 8E, the role has been realigned (and done so in a way that fits both with actual-reality and with what we see in fluff, e.g. the tank battles in Necropolis or the smaller scale ones in Honor Guard).

I'm sorry that >>53709178 has to buy an Exterminator turret, but how does he not already have one?

File: IMG_2486.jpg (593KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

593KB, 1920x1080px

Here's my bros 1000 point tank IG regiment
He's won all three of the eight edition games he's played

He's won two against my chaos
And he's won once against an infantry heavy tau list with a ghostkeel and two stealth suit teams

From everything I've seen the leman Russ has pretty much stayed the same, it's main gun is a bit weaker but the sponsons, survivability, and speed improvements really help.

>>53709275
Lack of old AP3 is one of the drawbacks of battle cannon. Marines now get 5+ save against it. Even the exterminator without twinlinkedness is better in someways when it comes to killing vehicles. Guaranteed 2 wounds per failed save, guaranteed 4 shots.

>>53709414
Yeah I probably won't be using it, but it's got good range still. I will stick to mostly Eradicator instead.

>>53709414
The same could be said of many weapons. A lot of them got nerfs in the AP department, in order to give a lot of units in several armies a chance at an armor save. Like bolters no longer laughing at Guardsman armor.

>>53708532
>They got a lot more fire power now. Before I'd just take 2 special weapons to shoot out the top hatch. Now I put in 3 special, 1 heavy flamer and 1 heavy weapon.

But wasn't it like that since 5th

>>53709658
I mean, they have always had heavy weapon plus 3 specials. The difference now is that you get a heavy flamer in addition to 3 specials and 1 heavy weapon.

It was just never worth taking more than 3 special weapons in 7th. Often times it was only worth taking 2 special weapons to fire out the hatch. Now that you get a bonus heavy flamer and that shooting heavy weapons on the move is only -1 BS, heavy weapons are now worth taking too because Vets would be BS4+ on the move with a heavy.

Not to mention you can target different units now. It makes Vets a lot more versitle because they can bring Meltas that hit a tank hard, but then use the heavy flamer and a heavy bolter to blast away at nearby infantry.

>>53709712
I feel the biggest change to vets is how they handled combat phase now, iirc you can fall back now, so taking multiple vets and deploying them in a structure won't mean that anything that gets close enough to charge them will kill them all one by one with no damage at all while also being immune to your shooting phase because "lol, I'm scared of hitting cannon fodder".

>>53707648
Blobs got better, vehicles got worse.

Take heavy weapons teams and sure up your morale.

Take what I say with salt, I have only played two matches with guard as I have mostly been playing with my Tyranids and Admech armies.

Guard play differently than before. The bigger the force you take the better your rewards with them will be. As in taking guard as allies or supplements to other forces don't seem like a good idea to me. At least yet. Take tank commanders and just about every version of it you take, will be good, but also a giant target, get it some cover (AGEIS LINE!) and a primaris psyker to give it a bonus of 2 extra armor; meaning if shot with a Laz Cannon it will still have a 4+ armor save.

Take lots of troops, but don't take stock troops, you know all those grenade lauchers and flamers that you never use? Use them. 10 guardsmen are only 40 pts, give them autocannons, heavy bolters or mortors with special weapons and a vox caster. And marvel at the amount of firepower they can dish out, even without orders. **Personal opionin, only put Laz cannons in unupgraded or minimally upgraded regular squads (or vets if you really want that 3+ to hit, but orders help with this problem). Laz cannons draw fire, let the mooks be your meatshields.

Take heavy weapon teams. They die easy. But they dish out so much damage. I like mortor teams because they cost only like 45 pts and throw out 3d6 S4 shots each turn. Better still, your opponets will hesitate to shoot them when they have much more annoying and hard hitting targets to deal with like your Leman Russes or Basilisks.

Veterans are glass cannons, they make Skitarri special weapon teams blush. A veteran squad can take 3 plasma guns at 7pts each. Yeah...

I don't know how good their artillery is, because it has blown up first turn for all my games...

I love and hate Chimeras. I hate them because they are too fucking expensive, I love them because they are better than most other factions tanks.

Take psykers. Hope this is helpful.

File: 1497020540314.jpg (109KB, 1023x701px) Image search: [Google]

109KB, 1023x701px

Fellow guard players, can I get an opinion on modeling?

I want a Vulture but I think the model for it is hot garbage. It's an agile craft known for tight turns and nimble flight but the one that FW actually put out is literally an engine with wings strapped to it.

What if I did something like this? I'd put the intake ducts back on there and use the punisher cannons from a LR demolisher kit. Probably make the ammo drums out of the cylinders from multiple rocket pods.

Thoughts? Also do you think the new rules for the punisher will five like the punisher on the Taurox (doubled shots instead of twin linking)? If true it would make the punisher the single most dakkatastic vehicle in 40k.

Punisher is the exact same. 20shots, S5 no AP same range. Oddly enough, due to its lack of AP it won't be as effective as it was in 7th, especially if you gave it to pask for those sweet rends.

I intend to use it later tonight as as Pask with 3 hvy bolters, hvy stubbor and a Hunter Killer. Just to see how much dice throwing it can pull off on lighter targets.

>>53710633
Seems fine to me. The Vulture and Valkyrie are the same size.

As plenty of people are noting Russes seem to be middling quality units for there points. The mechanics for how many hits they will generate mean their 4+ and degrading with damage BS hurts them, a lot.

They are going to statistically take a lot of fire power to remove from the board though now and their damage can be tailored a bit.

Tanks Commanders help mitigate the BS issue, both for their own vehicle with a base 3+ and others with the reroll 1s order. This easy access auto pass reroll means Overcharging plasma weapons can be done pretty indiscriminately. Annoyingly tank commanders don't appear to be able to order themselves or other Commanders preventing them from toting Plasma themselves without another source of rerolls. You can either solve this with Pask, who can order other commanders, or Yarrick who has a reroll 1 aura for all AM units. If you're going to take a tank commander at all, Pask's 2+ BS and trivial cost difference make him pretty much an auto-include.

Lascannons actually make a degree of sense now on commanders or Pask who can reliably hit with them and take advantage of their much boosted damage.

The vanquisher still looks like a trap. With only 1 shot its damage isn't high enough to overtake the multiple hits from other weapons.

The demolisher trades a lot of range for a weapon that's only better against large targets (T 8+, or units consisting of more than 5 multiwound models). Maybe bring one if you face other tanks/mcs, or large squads of Kastalens. Cost is an issue.

The executioner goes from risky trade off to strictly better than the battle cannon against all targets if you have a reroll. I imagine this or just leaving the default cannon depending on that reroll are probably the most functional choices.

Sponsons are more interesting depending on what your intended target for the tank is, Heavy bolters or plasma both have a place and 24/12 inch Melta can actually pay out against tanks and MCs

>>53710960
It's less effective in some ways, but more effective in 8th due to how many wounds it can cause vs other weapons. In terms of hordes, it's the best Russ. It's also not bad against single targets. Other Russes are good vs single targets but notably worse against hordes. That's why it's considered pretty strong now.

However, Taurox Prime is almost better for the point cost difference because even though it's only 31 S4 shots vs 29 S5 and 3 S4, the Taurox Prime with all that costs 100 vs the Punisher's 180. 200 for 2 Taurox Primes vs 180 for 1 Punisher basically.

File: IMG_1504.jpg (43KB, 600x620px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 600x620px

>>53711172
>The executioner goes from risky trade off to strictly better than the battle cannon against all targets if you have a reroll. I imagine this or just leaving the default cannon depending on that reroll are probably the most functional choices.

I'm afraid the Executioner being a better all-rounder than the Battle Cannon is a meme that got started up somehow.

It's the other way around and somebody did the math to prove it:
http://www.3plusplus.net/2017/06/astra-militarum-tank-weapons-40k-8th-ed/

>>53710960
Pack is still good in a punisher. You'll hit with damn near all of the shots.

I think with the re rolls he might be excellent in an all plasma Leman Russ. Potential 12 st8 shots ap-3 at 2 damage is pretty rough on heavy infantry and medium vehicles.

>>53711369
Pask can't give orders to himself

>>53711172
>They are going to statistically take a lot of fire power to remove from the board though now and their damage can be tailored a bit.
That's really the strongest part about Russes.
>Pask's 2+ BS and trivial cost difference make him pretty much an auto-include.
Agreed, 10 points for all that? That's Ridiculous. Honestly, Tank Commanders should be cheaper and keep Pask the same.
>Maybe bring one if you face other tanks/mcs, or large squads of Kastalens. Cost is an issue.
Demolisher is expensive, but the potential damage it does is ridiculous. Every bat rep and story has Demolishers doing tons of single target damage.
>The executioner goes from risky trade off to strictly better than the battle cannon against all targets if you have a reroll. I imagine this or just leaving the default cannon depending on that reroll are probably the most functional choices.
I regret gluing my second Punisher. I kind of want to try the Executioner this time around. Not sure if I can pry it open.
>>53711330
I'm not sure if it's better, but I enjoy the -3 AP and consistent D2 with the overcharge. I also tend to use Harker for my Heavy Weapon Squads, so I can just make the Executioner a Catachan tank.
>>53711369
>>53711411
I've heard yes he can and no he can't. I think we might need to wait for a FAQ on that unless you have proof that he can't give it to himself.

>>53711330
>http://www.3plusplus.net/2017/06/astra-militarum-tank-weapons-40k-8th-ed/

Is it unclear I meant that in reference to overcharging it (hence the reroll caveat)? The Overcharged Executioner on the chart you linked is equal or better against all targets (why wouldn't it be? Its same S, better AP, Functionally same damage 1d3 averages 2).

>>53711428
>>53711433
My bad. I got "Exterminator" and "Executioner" mixed up.

>>53711411
Lol. His orders are "gunner kill on sight!".

Who's gunners if not his tanks? Other tanks gunners? Lol. Full throttle? To everyone else except his crew?

The wording is obvious.

>>53711462

Too damn many similar names.

Anyone heard any word if the Annihilator variant is getting an update from Forgeworld? Pask with 2 lascannons he can move and shoot at full BS and another at -1 on the hull actually looks like decent antitank on paper.

>>53711537
I'm afraid the actual wording of how the rules are supposed to work actually DOES SPECIFY OTHER TANKS.

Yes I know it's fluffy that a tank commander orders his gunner to do better, but fluff is not rules.

Also, Pask can give orders to two different tanks. If he couldn't order somebody else's gunner to do better, then why give him the ability to issue orders to two different tanks?

>>53711554
Could be cool! I was thinking the same thing, even without pask. Annihilator would be an excellent variant whereas before it was kind of meh. Makes the vanquished look moot.

>>53711537
There's definitely some ambiguity for Pask ordering himself. Other Tank Commanders explicitly cannot order other Characters which all Tank commanders are. Pask's Knight Commander rule Specifies he can order OTHER characters.

Until there's a FAQ be prepared for people to not agree with you both on specific wording, and intent considering other commanders can't.

>>53710363
a mortar team is only 27 no 45, insane.

File: NMRN0133.jpg (81KB, 1000x595px) Image search: [Google]

81KB, 1000x595px

For anyone considering heavy bolters or missile launchers: don't.

Marines take those. Guardsmen take Autocannons. They're not as good against certain specific targets as HBs or MLs but they're not bad against anything, and you can take them in numbers because HWTs are cheap as dirt now.

Swoosh is bad. Thupthup is standard on every vehicle in your motor pool. Pom-pom a best.

Jesus you're right, it is 27pts!!!

Also, I just read Knight Commander Pask Data Sheet, he can indeed give orders to himself, there is no restriction in his orders saying he cannot, unlike the Tank commander which explicitly forbids so. This is both supported by the Keywords the ability rely on as well as core rules where it states all auras are granted to characters unless stated otherwise.

Whether this is intentional or not, remains to be seen, but rules as written its quite clear.

>>53712092
Personally i think it makes sense for Pask. It basically means he gets twin-linking, since he's already BS 2+.

It's not broken on him because the Russ isn't that great offensively, and tank ace though he might be he doesn't reroll wounds or shot count.

>>53707715

I go with 100 conscripts with commissar and priest, plus HTW spam backed by company commanders and Yarrik

>>53712086
Autocannons cost almost twice as much as a heavy bolter for a SLIGHTLY improved performance against SPECIFIC targets. Yes, you can argue that it's only 7 more points over an HB, but that can add up quickly.

>>53712092
Pask can only give orders to "other cadian leman russ characters." He can't use it on himself.

>>53712261
That's fine.

What's your standard infantry squad loadout looking like? I was planning to use plasma guns and heavy bolters. For only 55 points you get volume of fire, good AP and multiple damage from overcharges.

Yeah, the fire and smoke make the most sense and the rest is the utility. I think I'll be taking Pask pretty much every game.

Conscripts are an amazing unit, not because of the horde people keep ranting about but because they are fanastic screening unit and like in your example, with a commisar and priest, they can hold their own in nearly every circumstance, due to the character buffs and sheer wounds.

>>53707735
>The Punisher became non-viable, versus what it was (Pasknisher).

What the fuck, Punisher is better than most guns for LMR. Vanquisher is complete trash now, as is battle cannon.

>>53712339
Bare lasgun minimum.

>>53712282
I dig autocannons too. Played an 8th game against tau. They're great against tau. Get the 2+ to wound against fire warriors instead of 3+ With heavy bolter and get a 3+ to wound against crisis suits instead of 4+ with the heavy bolter. Not to mention autocannon 2 damage against crisis suits combined with the 3+ to wound makes them ideal. That's not factoring in the range component either.

Against Tau, I'll stick with my AC spam.

>>53712086
I wouldnt sink points in arming HWT with something so expensive when you can cover all your autocannon needs by strapping a pair to every taurox prime you take, more resilient, the can still fire independently of the gatling and because of poor wording or intentionally you can always take as much as you can because the designated transports slots only need another choice no matter what to take them, even another vehicle

>>53712339
feeling sticking to my plas-ML. but might go lasplas since they're the same cost.

File: IMG_06062017_194942_0_20170609_122329.jpg (755KB, 782x1346px) Image search: [Google]

755KB, 782x1346px

>>53712282
>slightly

No. It's better against everything tougher than an MEQ unit, and at several points is nearly twice as good.

It's also stylish as fuck.

>>53712371
Battle cannon is good. Vanquisher ain't great. I expect FWs annihilator to be a better anti tank bet.

I'm going to contest that claim. I'll quote the rule. Knight Comander pask can issue orders to a friendly "Keywords here: Cadian Leman Russ :End keywords here" [...] "To issue a Tank order, pick a target "Keyword here: Leman Russ :End keywords here" within 6" of Knight Comander pask and choose which order [...] so on and the like.

Since Pask has ALL the required keywords and due to the core rules saying ALL character may benfit from their abilites unless specifically stated otherwise, he can indeed order himself or two other tanks. I must ask to see your quoting of rules which either overrides the corerules or overrides his datasheet to say he cannot order himself.

>>53712455
I think you're overcompensating for something :^)

It should be noted that Tank Commanders cannot order themselves. As they are explicitly forbidden from doing so in their keywords. Which is what I think most people are confusing.

File: IMG_0749.jpg (919KB, 2527x1679px) Image search: [Google]

919KB, 2527x1679px

>>53712455
Hate that chart (I work in excel all the time and there's a much clearer way of doing it) but yeah. Autocannons are as good or better against most things. I just imagine a crap ton of 40mm Bofors cannons. Yes very aesthetic indeed.

>>53712529
And I think you really want Space Marines if you love their guns so much.

I for one have no need of genetic augmentation or power armour to do my job. And I certainly don't need their weapons.

>>53712455
missile launcher at +5 points is better than autcannon at everything except T4.

>>53712529
The only people I've ever heard in my life say that, jokingly or seriously, about firearms in general, but also vehicles too, are the ones that would actually need to compensate, either for genital size, ego, or a bizarre sense of control or achievement.

Nothing against you, it's just something that I've noticed. It's like when an associate or friend learns that I own a .338 rifle (badger ordnance m2013 action in an AI ATAICS Chassis for your /k/ guys out there). They assume I'm compensating for something. Nope, I do 1000 yard competitions regularly and that's basically my dream gun that I saved up for thankyouverymuch.

>>53712573
Fuck Marines

And fuck you

:D

>>53712339
Same as you. Best combo for best price IMO. I was also thinking of having Priests and Straken in my army so I'd probably give the sergeant a Maul and Plasma Pistol.

>>53712682
I know I'm just fucking around.

But there is such thing as overkill. In real life it's usually just wasting money when you could've gone cheaper to get the job done just as well.

In the HB VS AC debate, its 7pts VS 15pts - so it all boils down to who you're fighting and do you really need that additional STR and wounds.

>>53712602
So inferior against literally the most common infantry type in the game at this point.

And cheaper, I'd like to point out, now that missile launchers are 24 ppm and autocannons are 19. AND they're easier to field, since they come on Tauroxes and hydras.

Keep your missile launchers. They're not bad. I just don't like 'em.

>>53712444
The Primes are a great source of BRRRRRRRT

It's a shame the models are so awful.

File: IMG_1491.jpg (166KB, 1600x1199px) Image search: [Google]

166KB, 1600x1199px

>>53712818
All you need to do is convert the treads and they become a lot easier on the eyes

File: 20160921_110810.jpg (2MB, 5312x2988px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 5312x2988px

>>53712818
I tried to fix mine.

I'm currently painting up some scions in the same kasrkin-style camo.

>>53712761
>7pts VS 15pts -
Depends on what you're putting it on.

HWS are soo cheap, I'd give them whatever I've got the bits for.

>>53712832
>>53712857
Even with converting, it's only meh.

>>53712086

You're underestimating Missiles and Heavy Bolters.

Because Damage doesn't carry from one hit to another, Autocannon don't double out MEQ toughness for the 2 plus, and both have the Same AP, the bolters extra shot means it is literally 50% more effective at only 53% the cost against MEQ. AC will go to 2+ to wound against GEQ, but this doesn't beat out the Bolters extra shot, and is even more likely to be wasting the extra Damage here. If you like specializing the Heavy Bolter is going to be significantly better at much less the cost against probably 90+% of the infantry you'll actually encounter on the table. The autcannon will take a significant edge against light and medium vehicles in the t6 to t7 band, but once you hit t8 both weapons will be back to wounding on a 5, and the Heavy Bolters extra shot means it threatens 75% of the damage for again 53% the cost.

Conversely the missile launcher while significantly less effective than the lascannon against targets with T8+, can still be turned around and effectively fired at infantry. I don't think this is as good as case as the HB has vs the autocannon but depending on your meta, the Missile Launcher can still threaten t6 and 7 vehicles effectively and will still have utility against infantry heavy armies/LOS limitations. I hope they reduce the cost of this to perhaps 18 for guard.

>>53712857
Paintjob is cool but that model is unsalvagable imo, despite your valiant attempt. Too tall and MRAPs just look out of place in 40k next to all the WW1 style vehicle.

>>53712904
"Meh" is still leagues better than "shit"

>>53712904
it's because it's exaggeratedly tall and narrow, a vehicle should be wider and lower

>>53712904
>>53712918

Thank you. In reference, it's a strip job; I received a badly painted and assembled Taurox as a gift and decided to see if I could make it look good.

It was cheaper than buying it new, and I've grown to love it in it's own way.

File: 1HrET3a.png (961KB, 1000x535px) Image search: [Google]

961KB, 1000x535px

>>53712922
True. I've been shopping around for alternative models.

I've been thinking about converting/up armoring this. But I'm not sure on the Taroux dimensions. Don't want to be accuse of modeling for advantage.

>>53712987
A Taurox is slightly narrower and shorter, and somewhat taller than the chimerax if that helps.

File: IMG_1506.jpg (52KB, 636x358px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 636x358px

>>53712918
>MRAPs just look out of place in 40k next to all the WW1 style vehicle.

The deuce-and-half has been around since WW1, if it helps you can think of it as that. Putting 6 wheels on the model is just as easy as 4.

File: taurox.jpg (86KB, 960x720px) Image search: [Google]

86KB, 960x720px

Lengthening the Taurox seems to improve its proportions and doesn't have some of the modeling for advantage connotations of reducing its hight

>>53712761
8 points for HB. But HB plus Plasma Gun is 15 which makes a big difference in comparing the 2.

>>53712918
>MRAPs just look out of place in 40k
MRAPs look out of place everywhere.

I would have preferred another APC, or even a technical.

>>53713001
I've been considering sticking a Taurox turret on a Chimera chassis with the h.bolter and lasguns removed as a count-as model.

>>53712818
I´m done buying GW vehicles, I´m going to buy a couple 1x1 styrene sheets and try designs in CAD until I get something acceptable, I know that means no more playing at GW stores for me but almost all the scene in my town is either FLGS or friends getting together in someone´s house.

File: IMG_1494.jpg (159KB, 800x553px) Image search: [Google]

159KB, 800x553px

>>53712945
The Taurox gets a pass because it just so happens to reflect vehicles used by IRL modern military that are tall and narrow. See pic - it's an MRAP

>>53713021

I really like the 6x6 version of the Taurox.

As in, actually like it.

As in I'd like to put my dick in its back hatch

>>53713001
It does. Thanks m8.

>>53713021
That does look a lot better.

>>53713021
That looks infinitely better.

>>53713021
Perfect timing on that post and pic!

>>53713048
A light-weight vehicle with a ton of firepower bolted into it would have fitted their 'special forces' theme for scions so much better.

File: BMC-Kirpi-4x4_k3.jpg (1MB, 2591x1374px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2591x1374px

>>53713021
>>53713072
>>53713068

>Gw having original ideas.

>>53713110
well at 11 armor it sort of was but now that every vehicle in the guard is retarded tough it has lost his niche

File: 14576090670.jpg (231KB, 736x650px) Image search: [Google]

231KB, 736x650px

>>53713151
Well yeah, but it still looks armoured as shit. I want something more like a 40k version of pic related (inb4 Forgeworld, I'm not made of money)

File: IMG_1508.jpg (514KB, 1100x793px) Image search: [Google]

514KB, 1100x793px

>>53713110
The funny thing is that Forgeworld already came up with the Tauros and Tauros Venator. They could have just gone with those.

>>53712282
With no armor values in 8th, heavybolters are even more versatile and dont lose much to the AC.

>>53708991
Have you done any of the math? They have a lot of mediocre stuff (including iconic units like Leman Russ variants) but at the high end they have some of the most efficient units in 8E. I'd bet heavily that they will be mid tier with fluffy lists but top tier with WAAC lists. Doesn't hurt that they can freely plug holes with anything across the Imperium.

>>53712682
Do you reload? I've been wanting to get into some long range shooting and have been looking into .338 and .300 Winmag but it seems like they are a small fortune to feed with any regularity. Reloading seems like the way to go but at 1k+ distance I'm worried my hand loads won't be up to snuff.

>>53713180
Exactly. This is the shit I want.

>>53713180
Yeah. Why they didn't just do a plastic version of that is beyond me.

>>53713274
I'm actually curious how the Tauros will turn out in 8e. If it's cheaper than a sentinel it might be a valuable unit.

I find only the Tauros Venator in the FW website. Where is the normal Tauros?

>>53713288
My pet theory is that GW is taking the "treadhead" meme a bit too far and dismiss anything with wheels on it for the IG/AM

>>53713292
impossible, the sentinel is already extremely cheap at 43 points a scout armed with a HB

>>53713324
I think they've discontinued it.

File: IMG_1509.jpg (42KB, 500x425px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 500x425px

>>53713324
It should be on the same web site?

>>53712832
looks like an MRAP. seems like the games workshop motto for making guard vehicles it to take an existing wheeled military vehicle and put treads on it.

>>53713292
I've been thinking about using technicals for sentinels now that there isn't a real distinction between vehicle and walker.

>>53713350
Are they retarded?

>>53713370
That's probably exactly what it is. You'll see references to "tread heads" in old GE articles. I think they took that meme a little too far to the point that tires dont exist in the IG. Which is dumb.

>>53713385
That would be one hell of a slow technical

>>53713385
That's a bit too orks/gsc for me, honestly. To me the guard always uses purpose-built stuff, just cheap purpose-built stuff.

>>53713021
How did they achieve that? I can't even tell where the converting begins.

>>53713407
Good point. I though scouts were a bit faster now. are they still moving 6"?

Maybe I'll model them with a flat tire. lol

>>53713240
Yes. I reload. I get 3-5 reloads from my brass before they get iffy. I buy lapua brass (theirs really is the best). They are expensive. ~$2.50 per case without powder or bullet.

I've actually been testing a few bullets and powders lately. Real happy with sierra Smk 300 grain. Barnes also makes a nice 300 grain OTM.

>>53713418
I was thinking more PDF than IG.

>>53713390
It probably didn't sell because the weapons on it were weak in previous editions. But now that vehicles are generally tougher and they had one with a heavy flamer on it, they ought to bring it back for 8th.

>>53713427
8" I think. Which is slow for anything on wheels/treads

File: 1497034577659.jpg (166KB, 960x720px) Image search: [Google]

166KB, 960x720px

>>53713426
this is my guess

>>53713449
I hope that they bring back stuff now that the guard looks good (inb4 codex nerf from the design studio because muh eldar/muh tau/muh murheenz).

I think FW lost tons of money because of the idiotic rules of 6th edition and 6th edition codex.

>>53713468
Not bad for a technical. I could see a light civilian vehicle being slower off road.

>>53707648
You have tons of cheap, spammable heavy weapons, your tanks are all very tough, and you have one the cheapest and most effective assault screens in the game, the conscript + commissar blob. Take a look at scions, now, too. They're a lot better this edition.

>>53713487
Probably.

File: taurox mockup.png (470KB, 613x620px) Image search: [Google]

470KB, 613x620px

>>53713426
>How did they achieve that? I can't even tell where the converting begins.


I haven't seen it unpainted but I'm pretty sure they separated the model directly behind the drivers cab and used plasticard to extend the rear compartment. I imagine that's partly why so much stowage is arrange on that section to hide some of the join.

Im doing a tank/artillery tank list with scions, bullgryn, rough riders and some Sentinels.

>>53713544
It's a bit farther back than that, you can see the separation in the middle of the rear wheel well (tread well?)

>>53713592
>tank
>tank artillery
>scions
>Bullgryn
>rough riders
>sentinels

So just a 1 of everything list?

>>53713540
Myself, I just interrupted my IG army building. Removal of Marbo (you spent time and energy converting? FUCK YOU), hydra, artillery, russes with HP, point cost increases when we needed decreases on anything that was not a Vendetta...

I lost my enthusiasm while I was planning to buy and use the FW kits.. we had the rules for them directly in the 5th edition codex.
I bet FW was furious, I am sure I am not alone.

>>53713629
Probably 2 of everything for 2k points.

>>53713636
A lot of things got cheaper. Just nothing that was a tank. Except basilisks.

File: IMG_1401.jpg (87KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

87KB, 640x480px

It's possible to put six wheels on the Taurox without extending the back

>>53713601
>>53713426

For what its worth here's the wheelkit and some of the stowage the converter used.

https://www.zinge.co.uk/collections/vehicles/products/apc-vehicle-conversion-kit-2-x-axels-4x-27mm-wheels-and-2-upgrade-forest-sprues

>>53713683
>guns on the side
uuuuuuuugh. So happy they removed vehicle gun facing so my guns-on-turret one is valid. That is so stupid-looking.

>>53711330
>vanquisher cannon
>worse than battle cannon at everything

Man...

>>53713733
>they removed vehicle gun facing
Wait, what?

>>53713733
are you me? I put the volleys or autocannons in the storm bolter place

also, I build 2 with the missiles piled up where the battle cannon or gatilng go

Looks like its time to order 50dkok and some commissars

>>53713669
>>53713629
Just ran some points. 2x Punisher, 2x Basilisk, 2x Manticore, 2x 4 Bullgryn, 2x Chimeras, 2x Scion squads, 10 Rough Riders and 2 scout Sentinels with heavy flamers is about 1700 points. Still leaves room for some commanders and 2x Taurox Primes or whatever else.

>>53713733
It was painfully dumb.

>>53713772
Gun facing is no longer a thing. It's 100% legit to have a heavy bolter sponson fire at a target on the other side of the vehicle.

>>53713879
Just like it's been ok since forever for a bike or a battlesuit to fire their forward fixed guns behind the model.

>>53713879
I just imagine some crazy tokyo drift driving to fire all of the guns.

File: IMG_1462.jpg (34KB, 475x475px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 475x475px

>>53713879
I'm another Anon but holy shit this is good news to me. If an opponent balks at this, is there a page I can point to in the 8e rule book that will prove this?

>>53713993
Ask him to provide the rule that demands a weapon be able to see it's target. Remind him that in 7e it was only true for vehicles and in the 8e rules THERE ARE NO VEHICLES.

Or at least not in the way 7e had vehicles.

>>53713985
if you don't drift your vehicles around on the board during the movement phase you aren't living.

>>53713993
The rule book has no mention of facing, therefore it doesn't exist in the game. Anyone arguing for it is literally making shit up.

>>53714081
And before he says line of sight counts, line of sight counts for the MODEL. Not it's individual weapons.

>>53707735
The punisher is good now, you're totally wrong

File: HWT.png (45KB, 818x347px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 818x347px

Have some OC:

Actual of HWT effectivness per point

>Interesting results:
HB outdoes Mortar on almost everything
Autocannon and ML are both great "take all comers" weapons. Auto has the edge against MEW, but ML catches back against heavy vehicles / MCs

>>53714499
Mortar has the "no LOS required" thing for it, too.

>>53714499
MEW?

>>53714584
MEQ if your finger slips.

>>53714499
Good stuff, very helpful. Could you add in the missile's frag rounds?

>>53714689
Oh

>>53714694
He did. note how the missile launcher is green at low toughness. He's just taken the best of each statline.

>tfw tank guard + arty friends
How many Lemans should I have for 2000 points? I can fit in 7 (Pask + 2 Commanders included) with a MoO, 2 Wyverns, 2 Manticores for a total of 11 vehicles. Plenty of points left to add sponsons for all the tanks since in some cases they feel more useful compared to their primary gun.

I hope FW's Armored Battle Group still has troop choice tanks so I can get some more command points.

>>53714499
¿can you do the numbers for the volcano cannon please?

at 444 points base the shadowsword looks like it can regain its points in a couple of turns if there are things big enough in the table to pop

>>53714785
lol, you're right. I should have noticed the missile and mortar being identical.

>>53714832

You cannot do a "per point" for a weapon without considering the point cost of the body it is attached to.

And since tanks have multiple weapons it would not work as well.

What I posted works well because each model have only 1 weapon and you are comparing identical models with different load-outs.

>>53714553
Shhh, that's too hard for them.

>>53714829
No!!!

No no no no no no NO!

If there is one edition you CANT spam Russes in, 8th is it.

Russes are tough but they can't kill as fast as they used to.

Go back and take another really good look at the Basilisk, Hellhound, and Taurox Prime with Gatling Cannon. All the other vehicles as well.

>>53714921
>Hellhounds
Hmmmm, yessss. Automatic hits at 18". World's worst overwatch. I'm getting 3.

>>53714921

Super heavies are also looking great

Particularly stormlord full of HWTs

>>53714921
I have some Chimeras and Guardsmen but outside of that and some artillery modelsLemans are my core unit. I can support them with other units like Manticores and Wyverns but I'm not tank guard if I shelf a majority of my actual tanks in favor for Taurox-Ps and Hellhounds.

>>53715142
If it's fluff you're worried about, then by modern standards "mechanized" means it rolls - it doesn't walk. It doesn't mean "tank exclusive". A variety of vehicles in the same unit is still "mechanized"

But it's your army and play it how you want. Just don't be surprised if you lose a lot of games.

>>53714962
And remember that assault weapons can still fire after an advance.

>>53715210

Tank and mechanised infantry are different things

>>53715236

But they get -1 to hit! /s

>>53715320
Nope they don't.

>>53715236
Not really relevant since all Hellhound weapons are heavy...

>>53715302
I know but a "mechanized unit" is a catch all term as opposed to the specified "mechanized infantry".

If you really want to split hairs over terminology like that, you can call an IG army with a wide variety of vehicles in it an "armored unit" or a "mounted unit" or whatever. The point is that units with a variety of vehicles in them (instead of exclusively tanks) are a thing. A very fluffy thing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armoured_warfare

>>53715435

One thing I don't understand about 8th

Can you literally mix any Imperium unit in the same detachment, since all share that faction keyword?

>>53715495
yes

>>53715495
Yes, you can.

>>53715495

I think as long as everyone unit in the detachment has the same faction keyword its legal.

So you can 3 dudes with Keywords X A, X B, X C. But you can't "bridge" so X A, X C, A C is not legal.

>>53707789
I had the opposite problem last editions where I was running Stirmtroopers as vets. Still their lost of carapace was odd

>>53715495
I think there will be advantages to having everyone from a single sub-faction, like Astra Militarum or Space Marines, or Farsight Enclaves as opposed to Tau Empire. Or something to that effect.

File: 6457568898078.gif (2MB, 500x333px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 500x333px

For just 66 points, you can deep strike a 5 man squad of storm troopers anywhere on the map and fire 5 plasma gun shots into the back of something. This seems worth it right?

Plus with the Command Point rule, if you have a couple of those you can make sure they hit by rerolling one of their dice.

Just a couple of these units in your list only take up troop slots, and are only 66 points a pop, so it seems worth it.

>>53715641
>5 man squad
Well yes, but you can use a command squad and make it 8 shots. 64 points.

>>53715641

Might hurt you in kill point games to do lots of 5 mans. Everyone can split fire now and you get 2 specials for every five guys anyway so it might be better to run 1 of 10 than 2 of 5. Also bring the Tempestor, Orders are auto pass and rerolling ones means you can go hog wild overcharging those shots for double the damage output and an extra point of strength.

File: 1340644149620.jpg (99KB, 590x662px) Image search: [Google]

99KB, 590x662px

>>53715691
That's an elite slot
But yeah, 4 guys each with a plasma gun seems better than 5 guys with 2 plasma guns and 1 pistol. I guess if you can spare the Elite slot then it would be better.
I need 6 troops to satisfy my "Brigade Detachment" organization chart but if you don't need to or already have done so, then the Elite choice seems more point efficient.

>>53715703
I totally forgot everyone can split fire now, I'm just now getting around to looking at the rules and making lists.

The only concern is that the 2 squads of 5 can go to 2 different locations. You might want to kill things that are far apart, and the idea here is that you can "land" right at 12 inches for rapid fire range.

But yeah, I see your point.

IG definitely isn't weak this edition and even with the some Russ variants being quite crappy (Exterminator in particular), you can easily do really awesome and powerful lists.

What I'm going to use for 1500pts:

1x Temp Prime with Rod: 40
1x Creeeeed : 70
1 x LordCom w/ Power Sword + Plasma Pistol: 59
Pask w/ Punisher+LasCan+HBs+Stormbolter: 237

1x Commissar w/ Plasma Pistol: 35
1x Astropath with Pistol: 15
2x 4 Rattlings : 56

3x Lascannon+Vox+Grenade launcher infantry squad : 210
3x Heavy Bolter +Vox+Flamer squad: 180
2x 10 Scions with 4x Plasma Gun and Plasma Pistol Sarge : 266

1xArmoured Sentinel+LasCan: 60
1x : Chem Cannon + Heavy Flamer Hellhound: 105

3x Mortar Squad: 27
Manticore w/ HB: 133

In 2 batallion detachements for 6 extra CP (+2 from Creed) and I still have 7 points left over for fine tuning (e.g. one more Rattling, a PF for the lord commissar, an Inferno Cannon for the Hellhound or 1pt Bolters for the Infantry Squad Sarges). And that's with me going completely overboard with Pask (who gets his save buffed to 2+ by the Astropath). 80 bodies from the troop choices alone, 20 of them being Scions armed to the teeth with Plasma and getting buffed with orders. Could trim much more fat too if I wanted (won't need all those voxes anyway).

You'll have to make sure to use chaff to prevent precision deep strikes near your valuable and speed bump incoming hordes though, that's what my 60pt HB+vox+flamer squads are there for.

>>53715567
so i can take anything from imperium 2 with no drawbacks as it all has the "imperium" tag?

so i can have a unit of guard, skitarii, sisters in one army with no issues at all?

>>53716063
Yes.

File: 1340655384397.png (56KB, 544x554px) Image search: [Google]

56KB, 544x554px

>>53716063
basically, yes. some of them might not be able to use each other's transports, but there really doesn't seem to b e major downside

It's also what Im doing. My 2000/25000 point lists are both split about half and half imperial guard and sororitas. And I get all the battle forged bonuses and stuff.

>>53716063
Imperium 1 AND 2.

>>53716063

Some armies have special rules that specify they only apply if all units in the detachment have tag X. And most special rules specify only affecting tag X so interaction is limited. But yes you can mix and max units.

>>53716131
>min and max units
fixed it for ya

>>53716063
But could an order from a company commander work on a squad of sisters ?

>>53716108
>>53716114
>>53716117
>>53716131

awesome cheers for the clarification gents

>>53716258
No.

When it comes to special rules for every individual, read them very carefully to check who they can affect.

In the case of orders, the rules specifically state they only affect Astra Militarum stuff.

>>53716258
no. orders only go to Faction: Astra Militarum.

So a lot of special rules from certain armies won't work on other armies, but as for being in the same army overall, you can do so with out downsides.

File: 99590105335_Dkkmarsalphapatternannihilator02[1].jpg (39KB, 600x620px) Image search: [Google]

39KB, 600x620px

>>53715210
I'll consider it since I should diversify my army a bit and I do intend on having some Scions (when I finish painting everyting) with a MRAP in place of the Taurox if I can find the right scale, I'm stubborn about replacing my favorite vehicle model so at the very least I'm keeping Pask + 2 commanders.

I'm keeping my options open especially when the IG Index from Forge World drops to see if Annihilators, Vanquishers + Co-axial, Beast Hunter Shells, etc. are worthwhile. Being able to take 2 Flyers per Spearhead sounds nice to have Vultures/Vendettas in the mix too.

Hopefully this quickly made 2k list is added up correctly, but pre-FW I'd try something like this out:

>Spearhead
Pask +Punisher, Lascannon, 2 Multi-meltas
Tank Commander +Punisher, Lascannon, 2 Multi-meltas
5 Tempestus Scions +2 HSVG
Taurox Prime +Gatling Cannon, 2 HSVG
5 Tempestus Scions +2 HSVG
Taurox Prime +Gatling Cannon, 2 HSVG
Demolisher +3 Heavy Bolters
Demolisher +3 Heavy Bolters
Wyvern +Heavy Bolter

>Spearhead
Tank Commander +Punisher, Lascannon, 2 Multi-meltas
Tempestor Prime
Master of Ordnance
Wyvern +Heavy Bolter
Manticore +Heavy Bolter
Manticore +Heavy Bolter

File: Tautears.png (94KB, 755x480px) Image search: [Google]

94KB, 755x480px

>>53716348
>I'm keeping my options open especially when the IG Index from Forge World drops to see if Annihilators, Vanquishers + Co-axial, Beast Hunter Shells, etc. are worthwhile.
Is the forge world shit going to be legal? Cause what they did for Vanquishers previously was amazing.

>>53716395
FW should be legal, but I don't remember if there was an official saying by GW other than those stamps in some of the IA books. Even if it isn't I still have my group which is cool with it.

wyverns or basilisks for all comers/all rounder?

Do the SM have any good anti horde weapons or are we fucked?

>>53717044
Whirlwind and Thunderfire Cannon probably.

>>53717044
assault marines with chainswords, assault centurions, sternguard vets ect...

>>53717105
Oh? Sternguard got better?

File: sternvets.jpg (148KB, 1081x716px) Image search: [Google]

148KB, 1081x716px

>>53717122
their special issue boltgun can rapid fire at 15' instead of 12'. 2 attacks in melee by default. bolt pistols can be fired in melee. breddy gud.

>>53716994
Basilisk, but only because most "comers" are Marines or MEQs.

>>53708869
They went from militirary boarding school 40k, to Cold Steel the Edgehog Academy

>>53710633
Why dont you just use a Valk? If anyone complains tell em its the same frame but you'd rather not puree your pilots. I petsonally like the vulture even with its silly engine

File: IMG_1512.jpg (84KB, 798x798px) Image search: [Google]

84KB, 798x798px

>>53717281
>Cold Steel the Edgehog

>>53712857
Hey I remember your Taurox. Inspired me to begrudgingly dig mine out of its Start Collecting coffin and try fixing it. The Taurox will always be a turd and whoever designed it should be dragged out of GW and shot but with wheels and that turret I think it gets promoted to slightly better Dreadknight tier.

>>53712857
what wheels are they?

>>53713724

Are you sure it wasn't a Longhorn kit (Blood and Skull's 6x6)?

>>53713805

It was "Land Raider doors in front of hurricane bolters" stupid.

Which means it wasn't even their first (or second or third) time making the same stupid mistake...

>>53712371
>>53714388

I meant there to be more emphasis on the "versus what it had before" (Rending) part of the post. It's not useless but it's not the pain train it was before (which nearly bordered on "5th Edition Vendettas" broken, IMO).

>>53717637
Check the text on the tires.

>>53717800

Derp, didn't realize they had a 6x6 kit!

File: 20170609_191555.jpg (1MB, 5312x2988px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 5312x2988px

>>53717552
Zinge industries 27mm. You'll know them when you see them on the website.
>>53717514
Thanks! Here's a scion I just finished. I'm trying for a karskin-style color scheme.

>>53719117
PHOOONE
NOOOOOOO

>>53719147
You have displeased the Machine Spirit of your phone.

File: GERMANSUPREMACY.jpg (508KB, 1440x900px) Image search: [Google]

508KB, 1440x900px

>>53708718
Artillery conquers, infantry occupies

>>53707648
my army will expand to about
-10 scion squad
-10 veteran squad
-leman russ vanilla

i was going to get another infantry squad to make into another veteran squad, and maybe another tank

i was trying to go for combined arms, between hammer of veterans and tank and anvil of scions

any suggestions, or should i scrap the concept and go full scion

>>53712918
I think that making it a half track or having it as only 1 large track makes it fit desu

File: 1470092298750.jpg (249KB, 986x810px) Image search: [Google]

249KB, 986x810px

>>53708718
Infantry wins firefights, artillery wins battles. Fat loadmasters with clipboards win wars.

File: taurhalf.jpg (49KB, 556x385px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 556x385px

>>53722628

>>53722774
forts win wars, squidward

>>53717281
special forces training isn't very pleasant
news at eleven

the only real questionable addition from that book is the commissar selection method

>>53723032
do they have to be from the progenium or are kasrkins still a thing?
are all veterans the last remnants of a previous regiment, or can they also be specially trained troops?

>>53723050
Stormtroopers all have to be from the progenium. They're a regiment that operates entirely outside the regular chain of command from the imperial guard.

Regimental grenadiers/veterans are still a thing, and there's nothing stopping you from using the stormtrooper rules to represent them, but fluff-wise they're completely different entities.

>>53723071
i always thought kasrkins were cadian stormtroopers who came from the rank and file instead of from the progenium

File: Untitled.png (100KB, 957x77px) Image search: [Google]

100KB, 957x77px

>>53723085
Very similar, but still ultimately different. Think navy SEAL versus army ranger.

Kasrkin, when they had their own rules, were identical to stormtroopers but couldn't infiltrate or deep strike.

File: Lost_and_Damed.jpg (112KB, 700x590px) Image search: [Google]

112KB, 700x590px

So with Forge world adding chaos guard would fielding an old styled lost and damned army be viable?

>>53712457
Is there a reason to take the Vanquisher Cannon? It does more reliable damage per hit, but d3 shots instead of d6 seems like a pretty big deal.

>>53723621
vanquishers are still bottom tier
they can bust their intended target, but the battlecannon is actually better at killing most targets including most vehicles

File: 1476405009033.jpg (30KB, 357x384px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 357x384px

semi related but can an auxiliary support detachment be from another faction? For matched play.

i.e I have a guard army but I fancy putting in an ork warboss for shits and giggles.

unclear on rules.

>>53723651
That's disappointing. I picked up a new Russ the other day to go with my old attic salvages, and was hoping the Vanquisher would help bust open my friend's knight. I magnetised everything, and it's a straight up barrel swap between the two cannons, so it's not a big deal, but I do like the look of the long gun.

On a separate note, the modern Russ kit is a joy. Treads that actually have little grooves to slot into made me unreasonably happy.

>>53723684
Not for Matched play. You need share a single keyword across your entire army. For you that'll be Imperium, so you can bring a lot of stuff, but xenos are out.

File: 16602041_1848583825420826_4523357736714107825_o.jpg (669KB, 2048x1536px) Image search: [Google]

669KB, 2048x1536px

>>53723715
Thanks anon

>>53709178
When you fire a tank round NEAR a blob of dudes you're going to kill them. MBTs firing their main guns near you if you're not in cover can kill from concussion.

still waiting to see how Deathkorps will turn out. Any news on Thudd guns and heavy mortars? I have an arty detachment, and im either going to invest in a malcharius vanquisher or earthshakers

>>53712339
probably going to be plasma/autocannon, if only due to habit and having the models, plus I feel heavy weapon squads are better served with heavy bolters and mortars, while more expensive weapons benefit from ablative wounds mixed into infantry squads.

For special weapons, as many plasma guns as I own. Then fill out the rest with meltas, flamers, and snipers to taste. They all have a place, it's just plasma is our dream multitool weapon right now unless you only fight IG infantry spam.

>>53723032
Love to know how Ciaphas Cain grew up in the kind of place they described, the kind of place where you murder your best friend, and somehow learned to cardshark.

>>53724572
cain was from before the progenium was made more grimdark

cains school in particular seemed way more like a typical officers school or academy, West Point IN SPACE, although presumably not all scholas are the same

File: 1429930638837.gif (1MB, 670x552px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 670x552px

Played my first 8th edition game yesterday, and holy shit I've played 40k like it. Usually we're on the defense as guard players, reacting to attacks and not dictating play.

With orders now I was able to advance into the mid board turn one with my infantry and still shoot. In turn 2 I could then give the order for rapid fire 2, and do some damage - then get charged for overwatch (all about those flamers) - then in turn 3 use the order to get back in the fight after retreated. Worked perfectly. Commisar behind the wave, alongside my commander and my platoon commander. I added a regimental standard and warlord trait for 2 +1 LD bubbles that stack.

Manticore was a beast and took Magnus down to half health in one salvo, most likely our strongest unit so far.

Overall can't wait for second game! 10/10 GW

if youre playing in a tournament to win:
max conscripts plus enough officers, commissars and priests to make them scary

if youre just playing for fun then who cares take what you want to play with

>>53722886


Bruh... you, um, you doing ok over there?

>>53724819

Fuck yes, my Guards Mortar Battalion rise again!

On a per-point basis, am I better off taking Ratlings or allying in Marine Scout Snipers?

>>53725074
ratlings

>>53722628

Blood and Skulls (which sells kits similar to the Zinge ones but in the US) has a couple of halftrack kits, two in the front and tracks in the back.

>>53719117
cheers for the info man

I destroyed a riptide with pask on a vanquisher


cool!


also are roght riders viable now? i really, really want to paint some krieg death riders

Would five leman russet be ideal? Pask, who can order two tank commanders, who can then order a regular tank each.

>>53725571
>also are roght riders viable now?
Looks like it on paper, their lances are pretty good and aren't one use anymore. Plus they can outflank now which is handy.

>>53725074
What about ratlings vs a Vindicate?

Can I have Creed in a Scions force? I don't see anything Cadian-only about his abilities but I'm still new to 8E.

>>53726027

I mean a Creed counts-as obviously. He's actually named Brigadier The Lord Sir Reginald Phipps Oswald-Worthington Vormelchett.

>>53726062
>over-titled nobility guard
truly the best

>>53709178
>When you fire a tank round into a blob of 30 dudes, it probably kills more than 4. Funny how people go from "this is how it works in real life" to "its just a game" faster than you can say cuck. Besides LMR was ok anti-tank in previous editions due BC being ordnance weapon.

It Depends on the tank round?
Most shells tanks use, you'd be better off rolling up and nailing the squad with your over pressure.

>>53726134
Yeah, you could deliver a lot of high explosive wrapped in fragmentation or just plain old concussive overpressure to a bunch of guys through pretty much anything with the right tank round, but a sabotted HVP would do literally nothing unless you hit somebody directly

>>53712857
Question, would the GSC vehicle be a good alternative to the taurox prime ?

>>53726027
You can have Creed in a scions army, but unfortunately orders are regiment based. Creed can only order cadian infantry.
By the way that mean that, unless "militarum tempestus" is considered a regiment keyword, scions can't benefit from orders in any way.
Same with ogryns and ratlings.

I don't think they really thought their keyword mechanic through.

>>53726676
i think the tempestor prime can order can order scions

File: Untitled.png (305KB, 497x430px) Image search: [Google]

305KB, 497x430px

>>53726676
>unless "militarum tempestus" is considered a regiment keyword
it is

>>53726676

Well fuckity shit.

TFW no bad-ass aristo charging the enemy, twin hellpistols akimbo...

>>53726451
add a roof so its no longer opentopped and it should be all good.

>>53724572
>the kind of place where you murder your best friend,
Jesus, there's "grimdark" and then "grimDERP". That's definitely the latter.

>>53725656
There's actually such thing as taking too many Russes in this edition. Yes, Russes are tough nuts to crack, but they simply can't kill fast enough compared to some of the other stuff you can take for those points instead.

>>53726134
>>53726209
This is why modern tanks have co-axial machine guns, and more of top.

>>53726688
He can, yes. He has Voice of Command and the correct regiment.

>>53726676
Supposedly there's an idea whereby if you set the <regiment> of a given commander to <militarum auxilia> you can order Ogryns, Bullgryns, and Ratlings, but that's basically the Wu Tang Clan exploit in a fancy suit.

>>53725821
ratlings still win out believe it or not

>>53727422
Not really.

Vindicare can hurt crowds with his mortal wound roll and unlike EVERY OTHER SNIPER IN THE GAME, He's a Character. On TOP of this he imposes a -2 penalty to the to-hit roll of whoever's shooting at him if he's in cover, meaning your average Ork or Conscript CANNOT hit him, and everyone else has to either be close to him or themselves be a sniper to target him at all.

He's probably one of the hardest models in the game to kill just because of those two rules. On top of that he's T4, has a 4++, and multiple wounds.

For 90 points, he's a beast. The only thing that makes him balanced is that he's hot garbage vs anything that's not infantry.

>>53727159
>exploit
Why? Do you belive that Militarum Auxilla regiments don't have officers?

>>53727680
Not the guy you're talking to but, fluff-wise, I'd think it more has to do with not taking orders as enthusiastically as the regular human troops can.

>>53727680
Quite possibly.

Might not need to exceed NCO ranks.

>fuck off rupert, we're busy here.

gonna order a macharius from china

which do i get /tg/
standard
vanquisher
vulcan
omega?

>>53727680
No, from a fluff perspective it makes far more sense. The issue is that the RULES for doing it is basically replacing a <keyword> with a keyword shared by a unit for the purpose of sharing buffs.

Replace the words and you're running <Ultramarines> Tyranids being led around by Roboute Guilliman. Same exploit, different suit.

So let me get this straight. Who has less units goes first? So as guard i don't get first turn to shoot, and in 8ed enemy has even less problem charging me turn one. Based.

>>53727956
Wait for it.

New Forge World index will be out soon. you can pick then.

Though I THINK that if your intent is to magnetize and make the turret weapon swappable, your best bet for a starter is the Vanquishers, since the standard Macharius cannons are basically just shorter and the Vulcan can be kitbashed using Baneblade kit parts. As for the Omega, maybe a built-up Executioner cannon?

>>53728030
I think it's who has less POINTS. If one player has 1999 and another has 2000, 1999 is the underdog.

>>53728077
Less points is casual thing.

>>53728030
This is why infantry squads are good for us. They are road blocks to eat charges for our Conscript blobs. Vehicles are pretty strong too. Strong enough to often eat enough shots turn 1 to not all blow up.

It's also reason to take things like Scions and Rough Riders since they deploy off the board.

>>53728063
yeah i really should wait and see what the rules are but that's the sensible thing to do

Played a game vs DE. I had baneblade with 4 heavy flamer sponson. His one ravager killed baneblade in 2 turns. And i lost pretty hard because he basically killed 1/3 of my roster with 1 tank.

>>53728030
Remember if you survive the charge you can just walk out of an assault now, and let everyone else shoot

>>53728318
That right there is a good reason to use MSU Infantry as a tactic. Your boys are also more skilled and will land more hits, in addition to the fact that the entire platoon can't be charged at once.

>>53728365
It's why I'm using both Conscripts and infantry squads. I'm thinking 2 squads of 30 conscripts and 3-4 infantry squads. Or 30 Conscripts and 3 infantry squads.

>>53712832
I hate the submarine door on it.

>>53728388
If you want to run Brigades this may actually be one of the more viable options.

Picture a line of conscripts, one or two men deep, protecting the advance of your infantry. The enemy must charge the conscripts. That's when they're fucked.
>conscripts fight and lose cheap bodies
>they fall back an inch
>order them to shoot again normally with GBitF
>rank fire into the now-unenaged enemy using nearby infantry squads

Continue until you run out of Conscripts or enemies. Whichever happens first.

>>53728474
It will work well, I saw Mordian Glory use it effectively in his game. The only issue is that you will get pushed into your deployment zone very easily. You need stuff to push out. Things like Scions, Rough Riders, transports, Valkyries, Scout Sentinels.

I'm just about to prime my Rough Riders and Bullgryn. I need to do more Scions to deepstrike and pull away from my lines.

>>53728620
Infantry and Conscripts press the main line while Scions, Valkyries, and Rough Riders hammer the flanks.

All the while you'll have artillery sounding off the drums of war.

I like Guard this edition. Nothing I have is useless.

>>53728002
>Replace the words and you're running <Ultramarines> Tyranids
<Ultramarines> is not a <Hive-Fleet> keyword.
<Militarum Auxilla> IS a <Regiment> keyword.

>>53728688
I like it too, I just have a lot more to paint now. Sitting in front of me I have 6 mortar teams, 3 lascannon teams, 3 missiles, 3 heavy bolters, 8 Bullgryn, special characters I made count as models for, 2 Basilisks and a Manticore. Not to mention all the Scion stuff.

I love this edition so far, but it's put a ton of work for me on the table. All the stuff I used from 7th is now still good, but it opened up so many new doors for me. So much more shit to build and paint.

>>53728706
Still want clarification on that from a Dev before I try it.

Ogryns and Bullgryns fighting twice a turn is probably the strongest melee in the game for it's points. I wouldn't throw that at just anybody.

>>53728811
I think they did it on purpose to avoid that specifically.

>>53729361
Thing is, they specifically omit <Militarum Tempestus> from the custom regiments, but say nothing about <Officio Prefectus> and <Militarum Auxilia> tags.

So, technically speaking (at least until it gets FAQ'd), you could make a commissar trainee-regiment using taurox primes as transport. Or an abhuman auxilia regiment with a commander capable of ordering ogryn/ratlings.

>>53729525
True. I still don't feel right doing fix bayonets on them with orders from an auxilia commander.

>>53729525
I don't see any problems with that, neither rule nor fluff wise.
Actully, I think it would be a fun list to play against.

>>53729525
>commissar trainee-regiment using taurox primes as transport.
Only scions can use primes as transports, sorry.

>>53727561
>Cannot hit him

false, shooting attacks always hit on a 6 no matter what. Conscripts and orks would actually be the most efficient at hitting him

>>53729842
Read the rules, mate. Taurox Primes can transport <Militarum Tempestus> and <Officio Prefectus> infantry models.

>>53729907
You sure? I know they FAIL on a 1 no matter what, but I see nothing in the rulebook about 6s always succeeding.

>>53730255
could've sworn I saw it in the same area as the 1's always fail thing. Then again I'm reading scans here and there like everyone else so it's possible I'm wrong. Until people starting getting physical rulebooks we're going to see tons of stuff like this.

>>53729929
Oops, my bad, thanks.

>>53729907
>shooting attacks always hit on a 6 no matter what
Even if there was such a rule, you can't get a six with a negative modifier.

>>53730588
>>53730572

I guess that means only bs4+ models can hit the Vindicare AT ALL while he's in cover.

Or melee.

I mean it's broke as fuq but I have the book right here and I can't find anything.

File: image.jpg (4KB, 300x57px) Image search: [Google]

4KB, 300x57px

>>53730672
>I guess that means only bs4+ models can hit the Vindicare AT ALL while he's in cover.
Yep. Problem, orks?
c: "classic 1500" is definitely trying to tell something.