/tg/, how do you feel about the casualization and pussification

>>53695400
>muh secret club
>reeeeeee

fuck off

Haven't really given it much thought

My stance on loaded questions, however, is very poor.

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/tg/, how do you feel about the casualization and pussification of tabletop RPGs?

Is it pasta time?

>>53695400

I'm happy something I love is reaching out to more people and bringing them joy and happiness. If I didn't want as many people as possible to have the same pleasure I do, even if they prefer to play in different ways, I'd just be a fucking asshole.

I've been through this with vidya and literature. I'm sure I can weather it on one more platform. Cherry pick the little good what remains, ignore the rest.

>>53695400
>Not wanting more people to enjoy the hobby
Go fuck yourself with a cactus. The hobby changes and people make cool stuff about it. What's the problem with it, autist?

>>53695400
Tabletop roleplaying has and will always be secular so it has no bearing on me.

Tabletop games at least have a freedom that video games don't in that you can add, remove, or alter any elements you want to fit your GMing style. Yes, endorsing casualization and "inclusion" is a recipe for cancer, but on the other hand if someone starts gushing about this EPIC show they watch called Critical Role it's a wonderful indicator not to allow them at your table. Tabletop will never die as long as the GMs in charge refuse to put up with this kind of bullshit.

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It's going to happen no matter what. It happened to vidya, It'll happen to tabletop.
The best you can do is be a perpetual nomad, moving from hobby to hobby, or become a hermit relegated to the hyper-autismal subsectors of the hobby.

>>53695400
>>>/v/

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>>53695400
>Muh, buh *sniff*, /teeg/ pls HALP my secret club is being used and enjoyed by more people, giving more money to developers of ttrpgs and propelling the hobby into new heights of popularity
>pls seriously it's bad I promise we have to stop it

>>53695530
>>53695486

Aren't video games in a fucking fantastic state right now? Sure, there's a lot of shit, but there's so much at this point that we're getting a constant stream of great games, to the point it's hard to keep up even if you only focus on a few genres.

>>53695439
Nobody who's ever posted "not your sekrit club" has ever actually contributed anything of value to what they're referring to.

>>53695554
They are and they aren't. I'd say RPGs are in a pretty meh place right now for example.

>>53695400
Why do we keep having this thread every half hour?

>>53695441
>hates loaded questions
>too much of a pussy to argue with questions premise
>on an anonymous games board

Then unload the question faggot, just like you unload your dad's balls on your own face.

>>53695576

More games than ever, more content than ever, more people to play with than ever? How is that a meh place? No matter what style of game you prefer, you have more options now than you ever did before.

>>53695554
No, jesus god no. Not high-budget games anyway.
As that anon said, you have to pick and choose, but the problem with this is that with each passing day, your choice grows thinner as less developers trade interesting mechanics for mass appeal. It's even starting to happen to indie games. Now, you can either look really hard for good games, look into low budget games, or look to the past for titles that you never played, and SOMETIMES a new game comes along that's good.

>>53695679
>less developers trade interesting mechanics for mass appeal
Sorry, MORE developers

>>53695643
If new people are starting to play games like 5e and Pathfinder, because of a fucking twitch stream, RPGs will not be in a good place.

>>53695630
The entire point of the post isn't to have his or more likely your question answered in any actual way, it's just to find people to agree with him so that can jack off together about when the hobby used to be better, or to find people who disagree with him so he can attack them for not falling in line with his beliefs.

Either way, actually answering serves no purpose. Far better to simply point out his shithead attempt and leave it alone.

>>53695679
That sounds like it's more a problem with being a bitter, jaded faggot than with the quality of games.

>>53695679
This seems more about rose tinted glasses than actual truth.

Most games have always been less "good" and more about simply being enjoyable, if forgettable, experiences. You simply filter out the old ones that didn't stand the test of time and then just decide because the only games you remember are good, then the fact that not every game today is good means that games today are shit.

>>53695643
I was referring to video games.

>>53695781

The same applies. You might've had more of a point a few years ago, but 2017 has been a fucking fantastic year for vidya.

>>53695400
Glad to see tabletop games get more attention. Glad to see salty grogs mad that they'll be expected to have basic hygiene and social etiquette now that more normies will be hanging with us and playing tabletops. Hopeful that new blood will bring fresh ideas and perspectives to the hobby.

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>>53695738
what turns one into a bitter, jaded faggot?
garbage corporate products, that's what
there's a good reason for people being jaded and bitter when devs can just lock away parts of a game that's already on the disk unless you pay a fee

>>53695795
Not for RPGs, besides P5.

>>53695805
You act like base greed over a product produced by a company is a new thing.

>>53695738
>I simply am ASTOUNDED that a person could be so ENTITLED as to find flaws in a masterpiece such as generic shooter #23 of this year alone, how could anyone be so BITTER AND JADED?

So this issue is relatively new to discussion (I didn't see it last month) and I don't really get the ass-madness behind it. Just like everyone has arguments over what style of GM/DMing is best, and whether RP or dungeoncrawling is the "proper" way to play, or what have you, it's just a style of play. If you want to play an "inclusive" (whatever the fuck that means? Non-traditional fantasy types only? "My trans demi-queer warlock makes a move on the racially-ambiguous rogue in a consensual manner") game, go right ahead. Cool! If you want to play a "non-pussified" version (again, what? Is this like some kind of edge-lord game where it's an equivalent of rolling a new character every couple minutes?), go ahead, enjoy yourself.

Everyone has their favorite way to play, and I don't really think tabletops becoming more "popular" is a bad thing. Yet. Who knows, maybe it could get ruined. But I don't see how.

I'd love to hear some reasonable explanation of someone who doesn't have the same opinion as me as to why they disagree.

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>>53695554
I don't share your optimistic views on recent development, but I certainly won't discourage you from holding them.

>>53695841
Does it make it okay?

>>53695400

It's D&D it's casual by default.

>pussification of RPGs

>the_tinman_and_the_cyclops.gif

>>53695400
Critical role is cancer. I play with people who enjoy it but I don't really care much about it, and neither should you.

If you have a problem with it, start running more lethal, dungeon-crawling games that don't attract those people. Or just tell them they're not a good fit for the group you want, nothing personal.

>>53695491
>Go fuck yourself with a cactus.

Hello Reddt! And the problem isn't people making cool stuff. It's the hordes of nornies and roasties who aren't making cool stuff, just sharing dried out d&d memes on Facebook and trying to outdo each other on lolzrabdom natural 20 bullshit.

>>53695742

the american video game industry is dying.

or at least, the inability for large american companies to produce games that are not blatant shovelware is becoming more and more apparent.

the only games from an american developer that I have had fun with recently was titanfall two and doom, for the most part we've been getting nothing but shitty open world AC clones and ego shooters for ages and their seems to be very little enjoyment to be had in playing video games these days.

however where the american market has floundered foreign developers have prospered, the japanese have been pulled from their mobile games and pachinkos long enough to produce some high quality video games and even the european devs are beginning to show promise.

that said I can see why many people are worried about the current state of video games when the games we are living with seem so cut and paste compared to foreign examples.

or maybe they only seem better than us because only the best foreign games get localised, IDK

>>53695742
>>53695738
Releases get buggier and buggier to the point the public get sick and the publishers need to put series on "hiatus" aka actual time to develop the fucking things
Horrible consumer tactics like always online single player games, micro-transactions out of the ass, draconian DRM, early access (and the list goes on) are more and more prevalent
The whole console hardware scene is a fucking mess right now

On the good side the market can sustain smaller business catering to more niche audience

>>53695795
2017 so far has been good, no major disappointments, that people didn't see coming anyway
But take a look at 2016, 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011 and 2010. Take a look at games before 2007 and games after 2007. Even normalfag dudebro shit like Halo was great before then. 2017 only really seems good because every year in the past decade has been terrible and the consumer has lost at every turn.
What I'm trying to say is that TF2 ruined video games.

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>>53695510
>Tabletop will never die as long as the GMs in charge refuse to put up with this kind of bullshit.

Except the rules are literally telling them to.

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>>53695805
If DLC is your problem, then that's fair, but make that clear to begin with, rather than calling the whole thing shit and then moving the goalposts when you get called on it.

>>53695965

Why is anything in that picture a problem?

>>53695892
Of course not, but suggesting it's indicative of the downfall of modern gaming is hardly fair, given that you can point to examples at just about any point in gaming and in plenty of other forms of entertainment.

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>more trannies shitting up my hobby

normies will make up their mind immediately whether or not they will continue to play but trans mutants will stick around either for the attention or blatant escapism with their horrific snowflakes characters

>>53695984
Male Drow Cleric.

If i wanted to deal with terrible mary sue character concepts then i would play with newcomers who are on the Critical Role Train.

As it is i'll just game with people who actually understand fantasy genres.

>>53695400
>casualization
>pussification

You mean you're fuck ugly and thought you had found some recess to hide in where it wouldn't matter.

>>53695984
It's made the choice of sex meaningless. Now it literally does not matter if you play male of female.
Not even a fucking tiny base stat change.
Wizards are so fucking terrified of being called sexist that they forgo more interesting mechanics in favour of virtue signalling.

>>53695975
This is the difference in quality between a 2006 game and a 2017 game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUxJpDtg0Bs

>>53695400
D&D has always been casual

>>53696050

Gender based stat modifiers aren't 'interesting mechanics'. They're fucking stupid.

I can maybe see the merit if you're in a super realistic RPG, but D&D is a fucking heroic fantasy game. It would seem bizarrely out of place.

>>53695933
Games get buggier because they get more complicated while not allowing dev time to increase in a major way.

A game today is exponentially more complicated to code, test, and debug than it was years ago, and that means more bugs and more mistakes. It's shitty, but it's not entirely the fault of the developers either.

>>53695984
It is a problem, but not for the reasons that anon is claiming.

If you support making games more inclusive, then this paragraph is useless. No DM is going to change their mind about quiltbag characters just because you point at this.

If you're against it, this paragraph is only telling you that the company wants to display how cool and progressive they are by telling people what they already knew.

It's either an empty gesture or eye-rolling cringe; either way, it's doing no good for any of the people it's supposed to be targeted toward.

>>53696050
>Now it literally does not matter if you play male of female.
>Not even a fucking tiny base stat change.
This has been a thing since Forgotten Realms - the lore literally states that males and females have equal potential and gender choice poses no attribute modifier.

>>53695550
>implying the end goal of RPGs is profit and popularity
>t. Shekelstein

>>53696081
I don't know if I can complete with you there when the most outrageous examples are games than are exactly the same every year, like ass creed, and should be working better when the exact same game was tested multiples times before

>>53695550

Yes, it is bad. Pic related. I disagree about the "women entering the hobby is bad," but there is a saying in Russia - "Do not enter a monastery with your own code."

You have to adapt and assimilate into the culture rather than the culture adapting to fit you. In this case, culture = fandom = ttrpgs = whatever.

And yes, down the line, it does lead to a decline in product. 3.5 to 5e is a perfect example. 3.5 was huge, but it appealed to the unwashed masses. The people who liked D&D either kept playing AD&D or switched to other systems. WotC and Hasbro saw a loss in profits, because regular people aren't going to autistically buy every book that comes out. 4E was much smaller than 3.5, and 5e is even smaller than that, which goes to show, that even in the long-term, pandering to the masses in a niche hobby fails.

>>53695400
>casualization and pussification


D&D has always been a shitty casual game

>healing magic so you don't have to think about your actions
>damage is just HP removed rather than having players lose skills, stats and abilities when taking damage like losing the ability to sprint and/or moving slower if an opponent cuts your leg but that's too complicated to the 11 year olds who play the game
>armor making you more likely to dodge enemy attacks rather than reducing damage taken from successful enemy attacks

The whole game is just an embarrassment to play, really explains why nerds were getting bullied back in the 80s and 90s for playing it.

>>53696078
What's the point in even fucking wasting the ink to print it on the character sheet? Everyone may as well be androgynous clones.
With different mechanics associated with different genders, the number of different characters you can play has been effectively doubled.

>>53695709
Nah, you're just a moron too scared to have an opinion on the matter.

>>53695853

This, pen and paper RPG's will always be an incredibly robust genre because they are stories and adventures generated by the GM and provided to the players, and because they are made in this way you can't really complain that they're being pussified.

I mean lets be honest here, if wizards made all elves hermaphrodites tomorrow, I can guarantee anyone who played that system and didn't like it could just ignore it, I mean elves aren't even a playable race in my setting because they're proper folklore fey creatures that have no business consorting with humans. and wizard can't exactly come to my house and put a gun to my head for having the wrong kind of fun.

its also why GM's reserve the right to let whoever they want on the table, some tumblrina comes to you and hands you an epic snowflake to end all snowflakes? politely tell them that you do not think their character suits the tone of the campaign your running, its literally that easy, if they want the support of official material then they can go find an adventure league store.

honestly see no threat in SJW boogiemen invading our tabletop safespace because you can always just choose to play with like minded individuals and houserule whatever you don't like, which is not something you have the luxury of doing in a vidya game

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>>53696029
Yeah but people have been doing stuff like Ladyknights since 1st edition. Now the rules put it out there that you don't get -4 STR for having tits. They chose "Male Drow Cleric" as a thinly veiled cardboard wall in front of the "Women are not less heroic than men" sign they were GOING to put there before they realized spergs like you would never shut up about something any functional adult can agree is totally fine.

>>53695804
>Glad to see salty grogs mad that they'll be expected to have basic hygiene and social etiquette now that more normies will be hanging with us and playing tabletops.

Except they won't because the normos pirate their shit online while the neckbeard actually buy books and minis and shit. Guess which one the flgs will pander to.

>>53695400
how does your mother feel about your fragile, wasted fucking life?

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>>53696169
>armor making you more likely to dodge enemy attacks rather than reducing damage taken from successful enemy attacks
4/10

>>53696172

No? It just removes options when you put a gender on your sheet. Forcing people to be different by taking things away isn't good game design.

>>53695984
>why is it a problem to encourage mentally ill trained to shove their mental illness center stage and disrupt a campaign

D&D is a game about heroic fantasy adventures. Not sexuality. Period.

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Dark days ahead, friends.

>>53695795

Oh yeah? Please, tell me a title where:

a - good writing
b - fun combat
c - interesting characters
d - player choice matters
e - can be replayed at least 2-3 times

I can come up with a fairly short list, most of which is going to be older games OR games that mimic older games (Divinity Original Sin, Pillars of Eternity, Tyranny, Fallout NV, etc.)

>>53696205
It's actually the opposite if /tg/ is any indication. Most normies think you'll get immediately arrested if you pirate or think you need to do some real computer hacker shit to do it instead of just downloading a torrent program and finding a website. Meanwhile any time a new game or module comes out the leaked PDFs are on /tg/ within the week.

>>53696244
this unironically

>>53696255
Hollow Knight.

>>53696256
>responding to a namefag
Don't.

>>53696255

Nier Automata

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>>53696236
>Heroic fantasy has never had sex involved, ever.

>>53696284
Good point.

>>53696181
This is exactly my point. I just don't understand why people are running around with their doomsaying because a few SJWs suddenly want to escape their shitty lives too. It's not like you have to include them, or if you include them, include their stupid character, in your campaign. I've never played any ttrpg with an SJW, and I can't think of a scenario where I would be forced to, unless I was desperate and just went out to a random place to find my RPG fix.

What you said, that the beauty of RPGs is the fact that they're so modifiable or house-ruleable, is accurate in my mind. If you don't like something, don't do it. That simple.

>>53696255
>Divinity Original Sin
>c - interesting characters
>d - player choice matters
Love the game but can't agree with this

>>53696081
>A game today is exponentially more complicated to code, test, and debug than it was years ago, and that means more bugs and more mistakes. It's shitty, but it's not entirely the fault of the developers either.
Arguable. If you're writing game for existing graphical / physical engine the development effort may be about the same regardless whether it's simple 2d sprites or life-like 3d models. Software development, of any kind, is about re-using what's already available. The added effort you need to make should be as small as possible vs the added value you're producing.

>>53695965
/pol/ is the new tumblr
that's just a plot hook/BG hook, you triggered fag

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>>53696050

then homebrew a fucking substitute, infact, I'll do it for you

>females of some races tend to be on the weaker side in terms of pure physical might, resulting in a -2 strength mod, however an increased range of motion brought about by a lack of overly bulky muscles results in a +1 bonus to dexterity, and a greater force of will and empathetic ability results in a +1 bonus to charisma, the races effected in this way are

>humans

>elves

>halflings

>tieflings

>all other races possess a lesser degree in sexual dimorphism and as a result are not effected by this rule.

enjoy meaningful gender impact.

>>53696331

/pol/ has always been tumblr. It's two sides of the same coin constantly calling one another the greatest threat to our society, getting everyone else in the middle caught up in their bullshit.

>>53695933
Maybe it's cause I never cared for AAA Gaming but I love the current place gaming as an industry is at. We get at least one great game per month if you look at the indie scene. That coupled with the Foriegn Devs making miracles like Dark Souls and The Witcher series I could see the industry surviving a crash for the AAA Devs pretty well

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/tg/, how do you feel about the casualization and pussification of tabletop RPGs?
/tg/, how do you feel about the casualization and pussification of tabletop RPGs?
/tg/, how do you feel about the casualization and pussification of tabletop RPGs?
/tg/, how do you feel about the casualization and pussification of tabletop RPGs?
/tg/, how do you feel about the casualization and pussification of tabletop RPGs?

>>53696307

True, C is kinda false, but I would say D is true, since it has a... decent dialogue system and you can bypass some stuff.

>>53696281
>>53696286
Literally what? I haven't heard of Hollow Knight, so I'll take a look, but Nier Automata is a jRPG, meaning that while the characters are well-developed, your player choices matter maybe once or twice in the whole game, and you still get the same ending/outcome.

Now, unless you want to tell me that the ultra-conservative Japs decided to buck the trend and make their jRPG more like a cRPG?

>>53695400
Tabletops cannot be casualized, as the game master is the sole decider of the content, difficulty, and rules.

>>53696301
To add to this, the entire genre of gaming was built upon people taking something and making it themselves or putting their own spin on it. If you don't like how "casual" new RPGs are, don't play them. You can run older editions, which people obviously do regularly since we've had 3.PF generals for years now, you can modify or rule zero the existing game as much as you need to, or you could even make your own new game and system. There's nothing stopping anyone from doing this and it's actually encouraged in the games' rules.

>>53696169
I'm actually in a campaign now where we can suffer injury and dismemberment. It makes us think more on our choices and combat, just depends on your DM you nut-sack.

>>53696244
>>53696261
>I am a retarded faggot

>>53696042
Nice projecting.

>>53696342
How does this make gameplay more meaningful?

>>53696358
twiple a
twiple a
twiple a

>>53695805

>what turns one into a bitter, jaded faggot?

Social anxiety and other mental illnesses that prevent you from fitting in with society, and the loneliness and cognitive disconance that results.

>>53696073
>implying this cancer won't spread to other games

>>53696403
Explain how they're wrong, because like it or not this is typically how niche hobbies end up.

>>53696393
>and you still get the same ending/outcome.
If you ever actually play the game, you may be in for a surprise. Don't look it up, just let it happen.

>>53695554
No.

The industry in Video Games is playing as safe as it is content wise and mechanic wise. You cant have blatant sexual bombshells like those korean mmos anymore.

Realism ruins entertainment

>>53696211
No idea. I do know how your mother feels about my eight inch throbber though.

>>53696448

Bayonetta just got a PC release

Tabletop RPGs are already a niche of a niche of hobbies. I remember FFG posting financial results showing they were only a tiny slice of their revenue. They're basically doing it for fun and as diversifying advertising for their other more profitable shit.

So whatever keeps the hobby alive, I say.

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>>53695400
How does it feel to be a retarded 12 year old that has nothing to add to /tg/?

All those new guys will just play 5e anyway. If you were upset about normies you'd already be playing something else, so you're all good.

>>53696442

Except it isn't. The funny thing about that picture is that, if you ignore the words, the images show a pair of gatekeeping assholes being pissed off and angry while everyone else involved has fun.

Actually, maybe that really is how hobbies end up. Lots of people having fun with a few people being grumpy that it isn't like the old days.

>>53696446

I looked it up because I'm friends with a lot of my jRPG buddies at college and they spoilered it for me (I don't care).

What I'm talking about is more like... say, KOTOR II, where you can actively destroy a guy in verbal combat and basically take a couple of swipes at him. Or in ME2, where you can hug best girl when her father dies. Meaningful, but minor player choice.

The jRPG way of putting you on a railroad, and then giving you one or two choices in the game is not for me.

>>53696354
fair enough

>>53695910
>the_tinman_and_the_cyclops.gif
I am not familiar with this phrase.

>>53696256
>implying /tg/ isn't 90% normalfags

The hordes of "how do I get into d&d?" and system recommendation threads should have made this obvious to you. Nornies saw los Tiburnos and sir Bearrington and before long lo and behold they start coming here in droves and shitting up the hobby.

/tg/ is responsible for at least 25 percent of the normos invasion of TTR0Gs. The rest of the blame can be spread among Critical Roll, stranger things, and will weaton.

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>>53696255

games do not need all of those to be good, in fact I'd say that the only factor on your list that is actually necessary is replay-ability, as any game you think is worth playing more than once is bound to be good

>>53696442
Have a backbone and tell the person that invited "girl" or "other guy who is brown and not green" that they're disrupting game night and ask them not to invite them to the next one.

Or, if that doesn't work, just don't bother inviting anyone other than the two grogs and let them wank in peace?

It's not a hard solution, honestly, take your books and minis and go someplace else if you like. No one is forcing you to play with dudebros and (gasp!) girls. I've had to leave some disruptive groups because some idiot invited his friends, but I've found other groups that weren't like that at all, and we have a good time. I don't see how casuals have any impact if you control the event, or control your presence.

>>53696358
As I said, is not all bad, the size for the market allows for "big" indie games and medium size dev like CD Projekt to be viable, But I don't know if the big picture is very healthy
>>53696393
You can bypass A LOT of content, and the game acknowledged most of what you did (or didn't, in this case) but that's kinda it... you can decide to not do content. Not exactly the most impressive example of player agency, in my opinion

>>53696050
when did it ever matter if you played a male or a female? hell, I’d say this is making the choice even more meaningful roleplay wise because it’s telling you think about your character’s gender and the effect it’s had on their treatment and worldview.

>>53696510

Automata has those too. A lot of the side quests and even a few main story events do involve meaningful choices and different ways of doing things.

>>53696495
Yeah, because the old days were better if you care about content over chasing trends.

>>53696331
The only one triggered here is you.
/pol/ is not the problem, /tumblr/ is not the problem, the problem is people like you who eat every piece of shit they are presented with, then lick their fingers, ask for seconds and then call anyone not eating shit triggered or retarded.

>>53695919
The entire thing about TRPGs is that you make cool stuff by playing them. If they're not making cool stuff, that's because they're not playing them, so they don't affect how your game turns out anyway.
Someone who just makes up nat 20 bullshit without ever playing the game has a 0% chance of joining your group and messing up the game for you.
Will you occasionally have to tell someone new that TRPGs aren't full of natural 20s and kickflipping a kobold over a pack of bears? Sure, but that's been an issue since people started telling stories about their games. At worst, you'll get someone who thinks they're Sir Bearington 2.0 and will either leave when they realize it's not freeRP (which they would've anyway) or decide to toughen up and learn to take the bad with the good, rolling it (no pun intended) into a more interesting, memorable narrative than "I won everything ever."

>>53696172
Do you not play female characters differently than male ones in non-combat situations? If your characters speak the same way regardless of gender, that sounds like blaming your poor roleplaying on the system.

>>53695589
Agenda-pushing is the new international sport. Polls show it could overtake football/soccer by 2019, perhaps earlier.

>>53696189
Yep. Probably also because "Drow Cleric" is less archetypical than "Knight," so it's trying to remind players that you can play classes other than swords-human, cure-human, magic-human, and thief.

>>53696281
Are the controls good? Some of the gameplay I've seen makes it look like movement is really floaty and slow to respond.

>>53696394
>game master is the sole decider of the content, difficulty, and rules.

Exvept content is pandering to nornies more and more. Do you plan to run 100% homebrew for the rest of your life?

>>53696255
You seem to imply that a great number of games had all of this in the past. We remember precious few games out of decades not because they were the only ones that ever came out then, or because they were the standard, but because they were the very best at something they did.

>>53696518
I hate wil wheaton so god damn much.

>>53696244
As much as I want to disagree with you, I think you might have a point. Let me try to argue against it for the sake of arguing.

Firstly, I would assume most females at least try to play the game, even if it may look like they're winging it. They are usually introduced in a group that has heard the same beginner stuff over-and-over, so the newer members are going to be like the youngest child in the family: lax parenthood and assumptions that others will help lead you. Plus girls tend to lack confidence in their comprehension even if they are actually correct in what they suspect is going on.
Secondly, while I accept that there are a number of females, large or small, that are in the group for attention, most of them are not there SOLELY for attention. There are those that will merely go into an environment that they tolerate for the sake of attention, but there are those who consider attention to be a benefit along with doing something fun instead of being the sole reason for participating.
Thirdly, games evolve over time. Casualization is a risk in expansion, but when game creators are given different points of feedback, they get more ideas to consider as to how they engineer their game. Core members may end up being complacent with bad mechanics or questionable fluff, but newer members may spot those problems more readily because of their more detatched view of the game. HOWEVER, this does also open up the potential issues of the game becoming more politicized, or worse, trying to please everyone, which is not a good thing.

I would be cautious, but not pessimistic, about the "casualization" of games/

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>>53696448
>You cant have blatant sexual bombshells like those korean mmos anymore.

Anything that bothers grognard teenagers who can't enjoy any media they can't fap to is good in my book.

>>53696510
Technically, the game has like 26 endings

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ITT: grogs call everyone SJW faggots and normies call grogs socially retarded autists

>>53696473

Not made by an American Dev. I lament for the days whem game devs were wannabe rockstars who invited porn stars to be in their games and a coke habit to sustain it. New games made by the Americans are all walking sims or first person shooters and the character designs are bland

Japan is fine because they seperate reality from fantasy despite the popular claim that they dont listen to insert threat to tits in games. They dont give a rats ass about realism.

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>>53696573
You're not wrong...

>>53696354
Sounds about right.
>/pol/ calls people they hate a SJW cuck Jewnigger CTR shill
>tumblr calls people they hate a pedo nazi cishet racist sexist gamergator
>most of their targets the average person would look at and think "yeah that's a normal person with flaws like every other person on earth"

>>53696569
Just let it die next time.

>>53696539
>Are the controls good? Some of the gameplay I've seen makes it look like movement is really floaty and slow to respond.
The controls are tight as fuck. It's got the old Metroidvania/Megaman movement where you're in control of your trajectory and jump height by how long you hold down the button and you can move the entire time you're jumping or falling. It's fast to respond and combat is typically pretty fast-paced against certain enemies and bosses, although there are a lot of slower enemies and segments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAO2urG23S4

>>53695400
I could certainly be in the minority here, but I actually really enjoy their show.

Entertaining plots, great NPCs, and some well played characters (with a few exceptions) make it highly enjoyable, remind me of my old group in many ways, and make me want to get back into RPGs.

>>53696537
There is a lot of outrageous bullshit out there and your comment would b more than valid in other instances, especially professionally offended people, virtue signalling and so on.
But in this case? Just paranoia.
"Character that escapes the gender roles" is old as fuck - generally involves a warrior woman, see Mulan.
Is not my problem if you are born yesterday, retard.

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>>53696442

>alright then, you guys can have fun however you like, and you've got a large enough group that you can run adventures for eachother when ever you want.

>me and the old crew are going to go enjoy the game in our way, and not let the fact that people are enjoying our game in a way that isn't our way stop us from being able to enjoy our game.

the image doesn't work for a pen and paper RPG because pen and paper RPG's are run by people and are not dependent on constant graphical and gameplay updates costing millions.

if the GM decides that he doesn't like the new guys he can tell them to seek a different GM or become one themselves and gather like minded people.

if the GM doesn't like the official material he can change it.

If he doesn't like the lore he can write his own

If he doesn't like the system he can find another or play an earlier edition which is still valid because thats how pen and papers work

christ man there is a group in my store that still plays advanced D&D once a fortnight, purely between a group of friends that have been doing it for decades.

this isn't a fucking videogame, you're not dependent on other people to provide the entertainment, YOU PROVIDE YOUR OWN

>>53696495
To add to this /tg/ stuff and video games was never a sekrit club. All kinds of people played and still play this stuff.

>>53696403
There's a typo in your line -- a '>' that shouldn't be there.

>>53696610
Another thing is, Jap games are made primarily by Japs from studio chief down to the guy that cleans the office. The American games are made by couple Americans higher up in design / management positions and herd of outsourced Indians underneath.

>>53695400
all hobbies are kept alive by casual new blood who eventually become die hards over time.

Remember, you were a casual at one point who didn't know shit as well. Then you stuck with the hobby because you enjoyed your initial cringe ridden sessions and (hopefully) became a full fledged person years later.

These new folks will for the most part lose interest after a while, but a select few will survive the initial pangs and go on to keep playing for years to come and become proper roleplayers.

Also, be thankful they're there to buy up all the random shit we download offline and keep the companies in business. Without new blood hoovering up all the random shit we don't buy, most of these companies would've died decades ago.

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>>53696722

>>53696287
> Not understanding the difference between sex and sexuality
> Pretending to not understand the difference between a (game, book) having a sex scene vs focusing on sexuality.

>>53695576
>witcher 3
>new torment
>tyrany
>pillars
I'd say rpgs are in a farily good place

>>53695400
I had hoped I was safe from you faggots when I ditched /v/ permanently, but no, you had to follow me to this board with your "normies are enjoying muh sekrit hobby" and obsessing over the "normiefication" of the hobby, spending more time getting angry at people having fun than actually playing the hobby yourself.

Whining about "muh sekrit club" has always been more annoying than regular people getting into the hobby

>>53696517
I'll give you some time to guess.

>>53696784

After the initial meh, the Dragonfall and Hong Kong Shadowrun CRPG's were good too.

>>53696510
>New games are so bad
>Examples of good games are the fucking mediocre new obsidian titles and bioware shit
Jesus Christ anon, you sound like the kid who shit on COD for being a shitty console corridor shooter but recommends Battlefield instead, as if it was something significantly better, you need way better taste to shit on new releases

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>>53696610

this is the only thing I'll agree on after all this rampant doom and gloom about videogames

american video game companies are dying creatively, but considering the bloated and tumorous growths that they have become on the industry, is that actually a bad thing?

can you imagine a world where EA no longer exists, and all the properties and IP's they've held hostage over the years are free to be explored again (or taken off life support, and passing gracefully instead of the horrific half life they exist in now)

I can, and its beautiful

>>53696815
i forgot thouse, both are very good. There was also darksouls 3

>>53695400
> /tg/, how do you feel about the casualization and pussification of tabletop RPGs?
You mean casualization and pussification of DnD and DnD-style fantasy specifically. Because "DnD" = "tabletop games" in the public's minds.
I can guaran-fucking-tee you that as soon as you pull out a Shadowrun rulebook, everyone's gonna flee immediately.

Besides, I don't care particularly. My group is my microcosm, everything that happens outside of it is beneath my attention.

>>53696414
It doesn't, which is why it's a relic of the past. Not because of feminist legbeards, but because it adds nothing to the game.

>>53696244
Someone post the edit.

>>53695400
why would i ever give a fuck? It's not like i cant go back to one of the, och i dont know, 30, rulebooks that me and my freinds have of diferent systems, or download a old rule book from the internet, or just homebrew shit i dont like out, or not play with the people i dont have fun playing with. Stop bitching about shit that is not important to the game

>>53696844
And it's only really the major studios that are actually creatively bankrupt, you have to actually look around for stuff and find a niche you enjoy if you want to enjoy creative and interesting games.

This happens to pretty much every facet of the entertainment industry once it leaves the "weirdos in a garage" phase of development and real money starts to get involved.

>>53696823
ME2 was a better game than ME1 and I will fight your rose-tinted ass over it.

Tabletop is inherently something made up on basic systems. These systems aren't going to go away. It's not like video games, film, or music where the trends will mean that genres and certain gaming qualities will be abandoned for others.

If you don't like the new stuff, you can literally always play the old stuff. So it doesn't matter how popular the hobby becomes. It just means more people to play with.

>>53696888
D&D after 2e was casual central anyways so it’s not like anything is lost.

>>53696844
The best part is this new crowdfunding craze actually gives indie developers a chance. From about 2008 onward the graphical demands of new consoles and the "IT HAS TO LOOK AS REEAAALLLLL AS POSSIBLE" craze the AAA devs were pushing all but crushed the smaller companies and IPs. They can make a solid comeback now that they have an avenue to reach out and get the support they need and the realism craze is starting to die down in favor of stylistic graphics. I can't fucking wait.

>>53696634
>old Metroidvania/Megaman movement
Damn, really? I'll have to get that next time I'm bored. Not a huge fan of backtracking a lot, which tends to happen in metroidvanias, but the combat seems interesting enough to stave away monotony for at least a first playthrough. I guess some of the videos were just people being bad at the game.

>>53696692
Isn't Mulan based on a real person? Or was it Chinese mythology or something?

>>53696717
It doesn't even apply all that well to some video games, either. ROMhacks are plentiful for Super Mario World, SSBM still has a populated community, you can play older patches of Minecraft, Nethack still exists, etc.
Unless it's an MMO, which generally rely on large, sometimes mainstream levels of popularity anyway, or always-online DRM, which is shit in every form and shape, a lot of video games will stay pretty much as you left them.

>>53696813
It seems to coincide with the board speed increasing. I realize this is kind of "sekrit club"-ish, but I sometimes think the effect is people who think of 4chan as only a place to be edgy and contrarian, with no discussion ever, so they come here, and to "fit in," be edgy and contrarian.
I dunno, I just want to talk about dragons and hitting gnolls with a sword.

Tabletop, specifically board games, are going through a new golden era right now. There have never been as many interesting and well produced board games in history than there have been now because of crowdfunding and their recent popularity.

So yall can suck a dick, im glad this is becoming more popular

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>>53696236
>>53696776
Hilarious.

>>53696947

yeah, the age of corporate meddling and mismanaging is in full swing, but it will pass, we just have to hold on until the wakeup call happens

>>53695400
My local Book store carries Dice now and my FLGS doesn't need to sell pop vinyls to make ends meet.

I'm fine with it.

>>53696784
>>tyrany
Any chance it will be more than yet-another-diablo-clone? Because from what I've seen of it, I'm not convinced.

>>53696967

stylistic graphics was always the way to go, its gotten to the point that anyone could see from a mile off, the quest for video realism has hit the uncanny valley.

>>53695400
I'm going to just come right out and say it; DnD has been an animated corpse (Quality wise.) for a long time, and the farther away from DnD clone you get the less people give a fuck.

At this point I barely have the gumption to even put myself out there to play with anyone anymore, I just sit at home and daydream about having fun roleplaying adventures as I browse rulebook pdf's. Because it's getting overwhelmingly hard to get a game that doesn't disappoint the fuck out of me. If I GM, the players tend to be half retarded and uncreative, and if I play I have to consider those people my comrades in addition to having a boring GM.

I've become jaded with this hobby and I'm starting to not care anymore. I kind of want to just live in the past.

>>53697029
This. I hope my FLGS drops their entire shelf of those retarded bobbleheads into the fucking river to make space for actual books and minis. If that means a few more people will get into the games then I'm fine with it.

>>53697046

It's not an action RPG. It's an old school CRPG.

>>53696956
Anon, is cute that you think I would care if the equivalent to Call of Duty: Black Ops II is better than Call of Duty: Ghosts, but I don't, they are both pretty mediocre to the point it doesn't matter (ME2 is a better shooter, ME1 is a better RPG, if you really want to know)
Hope some day you play a real RPG

>>53695400
Most of the normies play garbage like DnD anyways so it doesn't affect me that much.

>>53697029
>pop vinyls

I'll never understand those things.

They're this generation's Beanie Babies...

>>53697076
>I hope you play a REAL rpg for REAL RPG ENTHUSIASTS like me

>>53697046
it a top-down crpg, its not anything great, but a solid 7+/10 with some nice things in it and interesting story moments. The story itself tends to fall apart twords the end and they have a big problem with making everyone stupid evil, but i liked it

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>>53697052
fixed

>>53697052
This picture is always funny to me because it looks like they are playing a TCG and this has never happened in any TCG market. MTG has become wildly popular but its not like the legacy or modern community has died due to casuals joining.

>>53695400
>D&D

>>53697089
It's audiophile thing.

>>53697029
>pop vinyls

I've been wondering for years, what's the deal with those anyway? Everybody seems to be obsessed with collecting them, but aren't they basically just bobbleheads done in a goofy simplistic art style? What's the appeal?

>>53696973
>Isn't Mulan based on a real person?
Is this supposed to make my statement less valid? How?
Other similar example, Éowyn from Lotr
Also,

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I started playing TTRPGs around 2-3 years ago, so I'm probably one of the "casuals" ruining the hobby in some eyes, but...

Here's the thing. Even if TTRPGs get casualized or pussified, your old games still exist. People still play AD&D and 3.Pf, even though 5e exists as a more casual kind of game.

Hell, my group started with Dungeon World we wanted to try Pathfinder first, but our GM wanted to start us on something simplier. A extremely simple, casual kind of RPG. We then went on to play other games like Pathfinder, 5e, Savage Worlds... We even tried out 4e and loved it.

In general, people will start with games that are "casualized", but if they like the hobby, they'll want to experiment with other kinds of games, maybe even coming to prefer the less casualized systems in time.

Though with full disclosure, our group did end up preferring things like 4e and 5e over Pathfinder, and seems to stray away from the crunchier systems in general. I think the most crunchy thing my group had taken a liking to was PTU, and I think that was only bearable because we liked Pokemon and generally already knew how the rules worked. Whether or not these systems are "casual" or not, or if more crunch means it being less casual, I'll let you decide.

>>53697089
I don't get it either. They're objectively bad figs in every aspect. I have to handle them every day at work and they all have terrible paint jobs, bad proportioning and that retarded sameface that makes any human character completely indistinguishable from another unless they're wearing a mask or helmet. If someone really wants a figure of a character they'd be better off spending more money on one with better detail.

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>>53697097

he says, obliterating his entire argument by attempting to mock someone making the exact same sweeping statements as he did

>>53697135

Being fair, 4e is a crunchy system. It just doesn't feel like it because its rules presentation and layout is top fucking notch.

>>53697126
Not vinyl records.

Pop Vinyl bobble-head style super-deformed figurines.

>>53697128
I didn't get it either until I saw a stormtrooper one. Next thing I knew I had all the stormtroopers, and don't understand the appeal of any of the other ones. And I pray I never do!

>>53697149
>more money
how is this not a problem you understand? If someone is buying a pop vinyl, its just because they want a cute little toy that represents some minor interest they have in something. They don't want to spend 50 bucks on some higher quality figure just for something they aren't terribly invested in.

Most pop vinyls are small gifts as well, no one is dropping big bucks for that.

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>>53696244

>>53695503
>never trying bibleoply

>>53697135
anon, 90% of people complaning about casualization are people who have been here not much longer than you. For the most part, the "good old games" are 3.5 and 4e for them

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>>53697188
I'm just saying that if you're gonna drop down money on a figure of something it might as well be quality. If you're not interested why are you buying it?

>>53697055
Honestly probably one of the reasons Nintendo continues to do well. In their more popular titles, everything on the screen is very quickly identified at a glance.

>>53697134
It's not supposed to invalidate anything, I just wanted to get it right so I'm not walking around with wrong information like an idiot.

>>53697111
That's generally how these things work out, really, even in vidya. People always seem stunned whenever an indie company makes a game that feels as good as older ones, without realizing that's because the indie devs are probably people who saw the casualization and decided to make their own game like they want a game to be.

>>53697193
>because rulebooks don't wear out
Well, they do, but there's tons of digital backups these days.

>>53697195
>money-changers in the temple

>>53697152
He may not be the same anon I was arguing the state of current releases with

>>53697228
>It's not supposed to invalidate anything,
Sorry.
AFAIK, is a poem based on a legend, no true records of them. I hope some more cultured anon will confirm or update what I writ here.

Considering that RPG players piss and moan when they have to roll more than one die at a time and do 1st-grade head-math, or how most people's terms for "Modern Miniatures Game" usually means "Warhammer 40K knockoff", despite said game having been around since the mid 80s, I'd say said casualization/pussification was well underway by the late 90s.

>>53697225
Because the difference between spending 12 dollars on a gift and 35 dollars on a gift is more than double the money

>>53697089
That's exactly it. They're marketed as collectables and use artificial scarcity to drive interest.

Just want to say how pleasantly surprised I am that a blatant bait - or just a salty grognard - got fucking told on /tg/ of all places.

Truly this will be the beginning of a golden age that will never end.

>>53697193
But they're not playing anything in the last pic. All the cards are on the floor, being ignored.

>>53697294
>artificial scarcity
but they aren't really that scarce, you can find a first generation pop vinyl for market price in a lot of places

>>53695400

I don't mind, because it brings more players to the table, ones who have new and interesting ideas, and aren't concerned with how broken their character is.

>>53696540
If you can't make a good encounter out of what the book gives you, that's your fault and your alone because it's not casual enough for you.

And I've homebrewed entire systems, got that, you fucking casual scum? Roleplayer, pedophile, tranny, your dad's in jail.

>>53697157
Fair point. 4e feels fairly intuitive all things considered, even when there's a lot of things to keep track on. It also helped that we played PTU before hand, which is itself somewhat of a 4e derivative.

But especially when compared to something like Pathfinder, it seems fairly straight forward. I don't hate Pathfinder by any means, and would actually like to try to get back into it sometime, but I can't count all the mid-game logistic questions and rule citing we had to do for simple things. A lot of times, the GM would just say "fuck it, i'll bullshit how this work and we'll look it up later" just because of how much it slowed down the game.

We also might just be idiots who were slow to adapt to the system, but again, we had very little problems with 4e, or even 5e.

>>53695400
Fuck you and your elitism

>>53697063
5e is the best edition yet though?

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I just play with my friends, and the one guy who watches CR just does it for background noise and doesn't seem to be negatively affected by it. I should be fine until one or two more people in the group have kids.

>>53697424
>very little problems with 4e
Not the guy you're talking with, but the combat felt really, really slow and boring whenever I tried it. I don't know if it's a group problem or what, but a lot of the time-wasting encounters boiled down to standing in one place and using Encounter and At-Will powers.

>>53697317
Don't jinx it you dumb /pol/ack jew nigger

>>53697362
>But they're not playing anything in the last pic. All the cards are on the floor, being ignored.
That's probably why it includes the words "or whatever".

>>53697424

Nah, that's how the vast majority of 3.PF games ended up working. People like the 'system' because they associate it with the experiences they had with it, despite the majority of those experiences not actually being supported by the system, if they're not actively undermined by it.

>>53697474

Was that pre or post math fixes? Sadly they did fuck up on the first try, so MM1/2 monsters make for really dull slogs.

>>53695400
The last thing this hobby needed was an influx of new blood in this fashion.

It always used to be people who were interested would find out about the game, and actively seek out ways to get involved. It was hardly "exclusive" before, one simply had to socialise.

>>53697474
If 4e combat is slow, it's entirely a group problem. The powers all run on the same structure, roll very few dice, and modifiers don't get anywhere near 3e insanity.

Busywork encounters is entirely the fault of a bad dungeon master who doesn't know how to design one or even run one.

>>53697493
>math fixes
This would've been 5 or 6 years ago, I think. I don't have the PHB at hand to give you a more accurate time, sorry.

>>53697509
He was running a premade, so I guess it was probably a group issue. I might've been the only one who memorized the formulae for my at-wills and most frequent Encounter.

>>53695400
See the way you phrased this whole thing leads me to believe that you are a massive cunt with a superiority complex. Let's be quite frank your social skills are probably shit, and you compensate for your failings by telling yourself the lie that you are better than most people and that is why you can't get along with them. That's bullshit. Come down off of your high horse. If they are friendly, and maintain a decent standard of hygiene give them a chance. Don't look down your nose at someone who doesn't have your experience or knowledge, remember that you were new once too, and guide them to find what they enjoy in the hobby. If you just stop getting hung up on stupid shit i guarantee you'll be happier for it in the long run.

tl;dr don't be a neckbeard cunt, just try and get along with people and have fun rather than judging them for how they game, and you'll enjoy yourself more.

>>53695795
>2017
>good

Oh, all these great games

>Weeaboo Schoolgirl Pantsu Quest 5
>STRONK FEMALE CHARACTER: ZERO TALENT
>MASS EFFECT LULZCOW

>>53697531

That might've been before the math fixes then.

In the MM3/Monster Vault, they changed the monster stats to give them less HP and more damage, making fights significantly faster and more dangerous, making the system in general a lot more fun to play.

>>53697474
I was more meaning problems with learning the system, but 4e combat is notoriously slow/long, I'll concede with you there.

I believe our GM remedied it by reducing the HP of his enemies a bit and making them hit just a little harder to make up for it.

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>>53696784
>pillars
>good

>>53695804
>teehee, grognards r smelly and stuff so fuck dem and their fun!

That's just a cunt attitude. So what if they're unwashed? They found a place where they can enjoy themselves without 'normies'. They didn't cry and whinge and demand normies accept them and include them, they just let themselves be ostracised and found something that allowed them to have fun.
The way you so joyously talk about ruining their fun reeks of pettiness. It's like pushing the lepers onto an island then fifty years later invading and burning all their houses down, and you're laughing about it.

>>53695439
fpbp

>>53696050
The trend started with Baldur's Gate, which dispensed with gender-based stat differences and reminded the player that males and females of the realm could do anything

>>53695400
More people will take the gate way drugs of 5e and Pathfinder. Some, not all, but some will delve deeper into my magical realm

>>53697582
>They didn't cry and whinge and demand normies accept them and include them
So you've never read a tabletop gaming messageboard.

>>53697577
pillars is a good crpg, you might not like it, but it dose not change the fact that it's a good game

>>53697582
The fact that you consider basic hygiene to be something which ruins your fun proves you deserve to have your metaphorical house metaphorically burned.

>>53697582
>It's like pushing the lepers onto an island then fifty years later invading and burning all their houses down, and you're laughing about it.
Yeah, letting girls play D&D is exactly like this, no hyperbole.

>>53697569
>less HP and more damage
Yeah, that sounds like a lot more fun. I remember it taking like 6 turns to resolve a trio of level 3 characters fighting, I think, a Large wolf-creature. Nobody was in much danger of dying, but fuck it took a long time.

>>53697598
>The trend started with Baldur's Gate
Eye of Beholder 1 as far as D&D-based vidya goes, actually. And that's older than majority of posters in this thread.

If there are more people spending money, we get more stuff.

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>Run 4e, homebrew setting
>Party sees two characters who are decent-level Solo-class enemies on watch in a secure area
>They attack them, because taking them on is within their ability though not really what was planned
>Start bitching when I roll initiative for both of them because "solos are meant to fight alone".
>huff, haw, and groan every turn as they get fucking smashed
Yes, they were threeaboos and wowfags.

>>53696286
>le I'M SAD meme robot game

Nier Automata is the poster child for "games as art" as beloved by journalists. It has enough of a semblance of plot to pass for depth for someone who has coasted through a liberal arts degree at a third-tier university, because, like other works of Japanese fiction held up as "deep" by nerds such as Final Fantasy 7 and Neon Genesis Evangelion, it namedrops intellectual concepts without ever properly engaging with them.

There is a famous quote about how reading Harry Potter does not teach children to become good readers, it teaches them how to read and write like JK Rowling and then Stephen King. Nier Automata and other such "intellect signalling" pablum for the modern pseud is but another example. It offers a veneer of profundity by meaninglessly evoking concepts its creator probably does not understand, and to someone with an atrophied cultural experience (like a "games journalist") this is indistinguishable from actual culture.

>>53697635
Yeah, one of the most major fixes for 4e was "double or triple damage across the entire game".

>>53697613
They clearly implied that making random grognards mad was an inherently good, enjoyable thing. I'm sorry you're such a faggot that you enjoy making random strangers who've done nothing to you mad.

>>53697621
Well you retards apparently struggle with basic moral niceties so an extreme example was required for you to understand.

>tfw you exclusively run games for normies

It's amazing.

>>53695926
American vidya industry isn't known for its good games anyway.

>>53697564
wow its great that you only know about those games and no other games like Hollow Knight, The Surge, Breath of the Wild, Prey, Injustice 2, Nioh, Sniper Elite 4, Nier Automata, Wonder Boy, Outlast 2, Tekken 7, and Dirt 4

>>53696358
>Dark Souls
>good

LOL, I get you have bought into the hype about LE HARD VIDEOGAM, OMG SO DIFFICULT I DIED TO LE CAPRA DEMONS LEL, but realistically Dark Souls is neither difficult (compared to classic "Nintendo Hard" games like Bubsy, MC Kids and Adventures in the Magic Kingdom) nor particularly good or well-designed.

It is carefully crafted only to provide a series of cheap jump scares for game journalists to screech about how OMG IT WAS SO HARD I SHIT MYPANTS BECUS GAME SURPRISED ME!

>>53697673
>Party sees two characters
>Start bitching when I roll initiative for both of them
This seems like behavior you just wouldn't see in players new to D&D.

>>53697700
Hey, he knows what he likes, I guess.

>>53697703
if there ever was /v/: the post, it would be this. No one cares whether or not you perceive Dark Souls to be difficult

It's fun to play and the fact that you think the game relies on "jump scares" means you probably didn't play it either.

>>53696414
>+1 charisma -2 strength makes a functional difference, a -1 stat mod and half an ASI towards a +1 in the other direction
>charisma skills and classes necessitate different roleplaying skills to strength classes

how does this NOT make gameplay more meaningful?

>>53697703
Go back to /v/ dude.

>>53697674
anon, there are like 5 games that have good writing, instead of what comes is considered good writing in video games, if ill want something well writien in world standards ill go back to reading Faulkner, but it's nice that someone is trying once in a while

>>53697197
This really. Most of those that talk about a point of time being some golden age either were not alive then or were very young at the time.

Too lazy to read this 230 page shitstorm but I really hope numerous people called out OP for whining about the "pussification" of a hobby that has been made up primarily of sad nerds for pretty much all of its existence.

>>53697739
Not to mention games like Super Mario 64 have basically no real writing or story

>>53697703
Senpai, you're having a stroke.

>>53697505
I worry that creators may try too hard to appeal to a wide audience and will end up sacrificing inspiration and sense of self for the sake of trying to make everyone like their game. I still think that creators should try to expand nonetheless, but they shouldn't strain themselves thin of their talent. There is also the worst case scenario where outsiders push for certain creative measures in games for the sake of making themselves feel better without actually contributing to the industry by making or buying the games. In other words, don't let political bullshit and aging trends twist your creative work lest you end up wasting potential, but it is ok to try to appeal to more people that are peripheral to your thing.

>>53697703
(You) are the intellectual dysentery that is crapping up /v/. Your shitposting isn't fun.

>>53695400
It's bad, because fucking normies invariably ruin fucking everything. Most are utterly terrible players whose knowledge of the game come from shitty-ass z-list celebrity has been like Will Wheaton.

However at the same time, the hobby isn't really sustainable. The reality is that, sadly, there is very little appeal to tabletop RPG for most people in the era of videogames. Learning a new system is hard for most people. Games require an investment of time, money and resources. The silver lining however is that tabletop RPG are invariably something insular. Nobody is obligated to switch to the new, casualized, shitty edition. Nobody is forced to play with idiots who make chaotic neutral retards based off internet memes. However ultimately this happen: >>53697193

But seriously, has anyone seen casuals play anything but D&D/Pathfinder?

>>53697700
>Hollow Knight
indie garbage

>The Surge,
broken shovelware souls knockoff

>Breath of the Wild,
LE SEXAY SHARK GAEM, turns Zelda into fujo bait skyrim

>Nioh
lol seriously another souls clone with zero talent

>Sniper Elite 4
generic shooter,

>Nier Automata,
if you think this is good you probably think that IM SAD goblin webcomic is high art

try again

>>53697779
>I worry that creators may try too hard to appeal to a wide audience and will end up sacrificing inspiration and sense of self for the sake of trying to make everyone like their game

They wont, the hobby is and always will be based on "hardcore" audiences, casual players dont buy books. /tg/s that are not bord games will never be a "casual" hobby because they are time consuming and usually cost a bit of money that will be only forked over by people who reall want to get into the hobby and like it

>>53697739
No games have good writing. Nier Automata is as meaningful as pablum like Madoka Magica or Neon Genesis Evangelion.

>>53697798
>indie garbage
>generic shooter
now you're just speaking out of your ass

>>53696029
It didn't say 'male drow cleric of lolth', now did it? Are you saying that 'my male drow escaped his shitty life, found a totem to X god of war, and decided he was gonna go find glory on the surface world' isn't okay as a backstory? Aside from the usual Dritz problems.

It's literally just pointing out that D&D settings tend to be big magical places where lots of weird stuff can happen, and that you can do a lot of things when making your character.

And back to the gy's originql point, you're free to kick the player out for that, nust as you're free to kick them put for wanting to play a drone, or any sort of elf, or for whatever reason. It's just a matter of if the rest of the group agrees

>>53697794
>But seriously, has anyone seen casuals play anything but D&D/Pathfinder?

Shadowrun is starting to gain popularity.

>>53697674
I don't know of anyone who says FF7, or really any Final Fantasy game, as having a particularly deep story, and I generally like Final Fantasy.

I mean, best story is probably Tactics. 14 does some cool things too lore-wise, but I don't think its presentation is anything to write home about, especially before Heavensward. I wouldn't call either of them particularly deep in any case.

>>53696610
>I lament for the days whem game devs were wannabe rockstars who invited porn stars to be in their games and a coke habit to sustain it.
Haha.
No.

>>53697839
ah yes, a 2d "retro" platformer with a "sophisticated" art style, truly high art to be displayed alongside Braid

Finally video games will be taken seriously

>>53695400
>casualization = pussification
Gee anon, I don't know how to feel about this but there's no stopping it. Guess you'll have to take up another edgy hobby like school shooting or suicide bombing. Or maybe shitposting, I'm sure that'll do it.

>>53695400
Fuck off, nerd

>>53697827
>No games have good writing
Name 10 games that have actuall good writing, games that are half-assed rip offs of existing clasical tales and books dont count. I can name maybe 6

>>53697852
fuck you, JOHN ROMERO'S GONNA MAKE YOU HIS BITCH, the glory days of Rockstar and iD and all that were fucking great
>>53697847
>I don't know of anyone who says FF7, or really any Final Fantasy game, as having a particularly deep story, and I generally like Final Fantasy.

lmao seriously? FF7 is THE fucking poster child for GAMES R ART weebs

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>>53697798
>LE SEXAY SHARK GAEM
Seriously? I might have to get into Zelda.

>>53697722
I can think of two total things that might be "jump scares", but that's it:
>the first mimic ever, if you don't know mimics exist
>the bullshit dragon bridge fire
So yeah, he's just a crossboarder who doesn't want to assimilate board culture.

>>53697739
Pretty much. Although, with some imagination, you can craft a pretty good story about a challenging fight from a video game almost as well as you can from a TRPG. One of the vore fetish pastebins I occasionally check recently did something like that for a Final Fantasy game. Was pretty neat, actually.

>>53697798
>>>/out/
I'm not redirecting you to /v/, because people like you are what's making it even worse than it used to be - and that's saying something, considering what it used to be. You don't care about enjoying a hobby, you just want to be in screencaps and witness the next spicy meme from your favorite meme website, fourchimz. The only brief glimpses of happiness you find in your life are the little (!) in the tab title when someone deigns your shitpost sufficiently shitty enough to respond.
Well, here's one. I hope you like it.

>>53697827
Perceived quality comes from objective misery.
NGE was written by clinically depressed man who had to come up with something, anything, to keep the contract.
Souls Games were made by ostracized weirdo who god laid off into a failing project because they wanted to keep him out of the work that mattered.

>>53697854
the fact that "indie" is even part of your description already means you are just shitting out posts

Most of the best CRPGs are a result of being made by "indie" developers

>>53697854
Anon, the point of baiting is to make it believable.
Now I know this might not be the (you) (you) wanted, but it's the one (you) deserve

>>53697872
Thats ridiculously subjective though

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>>53697875
I don't know if he's talking about Prince Sidon or whoever the girl fish one is, but there's a LOT of Prince Sidon fanart.

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>>53697939
>>53697875

>>53697917
no it's not, there is a big difference between a good story and a actually good writing. Star Wars is a good story, i fucking love star wars, i probably like star wars more than i like any of Dickens works, but that dose not change the fact that Star Wars is not good writing and Dickens is. Games tend to have good storys, but when you look into them, they are really really shallow and represent mid-tier fantasy levels of writing. But video games get a pass on it because they are not books, and have a diferent way of telling a story which forces the creators to focus less on the writing on more on other things.

>>53697875
Can't get much worse than all the Gerudo Link fanart...

>>53697688
You understand that they're not just random blameless innocents, right? Nor are they getting angry for some justifiable reason, like having their miniatures smashed or something. They're seething with rage that people are having fun with their hobby in a way they don't approve of, and genuinely wish they could somehow force those people out of the hobby. They're assholes, and they deserve to be angry.

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>good games need to have good writi-
>Super Mario 64
>good games need to have good mechanical comb-
>Planescape: Torment
>good games need to have meaningful choic-
>Half Life 2
>good games need to have deep charac-
>Rollercoaster Tycoon 2

>>53695400
I am only interested in playing RPGs with well educated, well read, socially adapted and confident European men of creative and good character who will not say gay jokes and enjoy story and good humour. Fuck every one else.

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>>53697983
>If something is old and established it has good writing
>If its new and popular, it has bad writing

Is literary criticism just /v/ tier elitism?

>>53698012
PS:T had decent combat mechanics, it's just the GUI that was horrid.

>>53698012
Good games need to have good gameplay.
That's pretty much it.
That's why I'll never understand people who shit on mobile gaming, when Android and iOS have more fun minimalistic games than any other platform.

>>53698023
https://xkcd.com/451/
Kind of, except with longer words.

>>53697983
"Good writing" is also ridiculously subjective, though. There are plenty of examples you can point to and say "this is good writing," but there's such a massive grey area as well that it's a virtually meaningless descriptor.

>>53698023
Replace Dickens with any good modern writer and the idea still stands, i only went with him because im reading some of his works atm.

>>53695485

Good response.

>>53695400
Now that you bring it up I fear that there aren't enough Intelectual men that were already old when they picked up the games as they were first invented to go around.
And those guys are the best GMs and Players.

>>53695630
triggered faggot detected
please kys

>>53695485
>I enjoy books and want other people to enjoy them
>So I'm an asshole if I dislike seeing other people wiping their asses instead of reading them

>>53698051
This still all sounds like /v/ style, "fun is just a buzzword", what is the purpose of writing if not to serve in the delivery of an interesting story?

If you enjoy Star Wars and the story it tells, surely the use of relatively simple writing is an example of "good writing", because it serves the fairly simple story it tries to tell.

>>53695400
the bitch on the right looks old as fuck look at those bones

>>53698023
The thing is, all the old writing that's still remembered today were masterpieces in their times already.

People remember Hugo or Zola, nobody remembers the "shovelwriting" of the XVIIIth century.

>>53698097
Its their money man.

>>53695400
I mean, my slice of the pie is still getting bigger, even if its a smaller peeve of the pie.

30% of 200,000 > 80% of 100.

>>53698097
Well you are an asshole, because you can do whatever the fuck you want while you can leave people alone who are wiping their asses.

I don't go up to people reading shitty books on the train and state "hey, fuck you retard stop reading bad books"

>>53695400
Why would you care ? It's not like normal people want to play with an unwashed grognard like you anyway.

>>53697873
>lmao seriously? FF7 is THE fucking poster child for GAMES R ART weebs
I mean, maybe 20 years ago, along with possibly Ocarina of Time.

Now I'd say it's probably Okami or Shadow of the Colossus, but even then, that might show how out of touch I am with current gaming outside of some recent J/RPGs, as those games are over ten years old at this point.

I mean, an argument can be made that FF7 is an interesting inversion from every Final Fantasy before it. Instead of knights and kingdoms and shit, you have mega corporations and mercenaries. Instead of the "Knight" being noble and duty bound, he's (initially) only in it for money and impressing chicks. Instead of the healer being modest and dainty, she's playful and flirty, with the sluttily dressed monk being more shy and reserved... But on its own, it's not particularly "deep" or artistic, and I'd say the story itself is needlessly convoluted. But I honestly don't remember THAT much about it. It's been years since I last played it.

Really, the only people I've seen who parade it around as "games are art" or anything more than an iconic RPG are super obsessed fanboys/girls that are even more obsessed than normal fans of the game.

>>53697967
>>53697939
Well, I can't deny that is a handsome fish but I was hoping for fish girls, really.

>>53695554
>Aren't video games in a fucking fantastic state right now?
HAHAHAHAHAHA

Videogames are dead, that's why I came here.

>>53698048
this might be so, but it's fairly easy to pinpoint medicore writing. Look at it this way, Baldurs gate, one of the games considered by many RPG fans to have some of the best writing, is a fairly typical fantasy story. If someone should write it down and publish it, it probably would not be even that big of a hit. BUT because this is a video game we look at it from a different perspective, we are part of the story and not just a observer which invests us more into it and thus makes us think that this is a ginious peace of writing. Im not hating on video game storys, i like video games, im just aware that we still have quait a bit of time before we can start calling their writing good in the same way we would call the writing in a good book good

>>53698116
Another problem is that there are more and more books published, finding things that aren't trash is only getting harder and harder.

>>53698162
just go back to /v/
>4x games and strategy games with a ton of mods and helpful fun community.

>>53698169
but a book doesn't allow you to interact with your characters the same way a videogame does.

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>>53698162
>I refuse to look outside of triple A
>No I will not try and find things I enjoy, I need to have my fun delivered to me by large marketing firms

Video games are going great right now, despite /v/'s endless moaning.

>>53698117
Yes, and they are still burning it in a very poor and reprobable way, which as a meme will spread and lots of other people will copy.

>>53698130
I legitimately doubt that you, as a suporter of culture and knowledge, would be fine with people essentially destroying them for a cheap laughs.

This isn't reading a bad book, this is ripping pages and using them to clear ear wax. Of course you wouldn't stop them, but I really doubt you wouldn't be bothered by it.

>>53698181
>4x games and strategy games with a ton of mods and helpful fun community.
What are you even talking about? Strategy genre is dead, and the mod community has been massacred.

>>53698198
/v/ isn't even endlessly moaning, they continually talk about how some of the recent games have been. Most love Nier and I was just in an Arms thread where most people thought it was fun.

It's just /v/ crossboarders who are the worst because most are legitimately underage

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>>53698147
That exists too, though I haven't seen as much art.

>>53698178
We aren't even close to the stupidity of the "pay by page" that was literature in the nineteenth century and the humongous load of shit it pushed.

I'd say, at least nowadays books are somewhat elitists again, even if our generation read way more than the baby boomers or ther kids.

>>53698214
>this is ripping pages
except those pages still exist somewhere else or in digital format. If these people are ruining your game just play the game before it was 'ruined'

Tabletop is based on fucking rulebooks. The rulebooks don't magically disappear.

>>53698217
(You)

>>53698240
Books aren't elitist again.
Elitist books are elitist, that's it. There's still a lot of shit that's published, and a lot of shit that's popular.

It's not that the game become worse or change. I can always play an older version. I just don't want to be associated with normies. It ruins my identity.

>>53698217
>muh rts gookclick
fuck off retard. Endless space 2 is vidyakino and total warhammer is singlehandedly saving WHFB.
>all those civ 5 mods.

>>53698217
Sure is dead with regular Civilization games coming out, XCOM2 being GOAT, and Stellaris getting good press

>>53698162
Nah, you're dead. On the inside. You've grown and discarded your childlike wonder, assuming that you can't retain it as an adult. You were using it for something, but you told yourself your didn't need it, that you'd get by fine without it, that it was necessary to be a big boy.

You were wrong.

Return to whence you came; /tg/ is no eden for one such as you.

>>53698217
>strategy genre is dead
>the 4x general on /vg/ is still alive and well
>mod community has been massacred
>Civ mods come out literally every week

>>53698258
he is a subhuman who thinks that C&C was the pinnacle of RTS design

>>53698245
Yes anon, you are correct: even if they destroy some books other books will still exist.

But you purposely avoided my question: would you be okay with it? It would be a lack of heart to don't be bothered with other people taking something dear and ripping it away with their ignorance.

>>53698198
Honestly, I think most /v/diots can't be happy as long as something they don't like exists. They're pathologically incapable of just ignoring games they don't like - those games' very existence torments them like a popcorn kernel stuck in he back of their throat. They'd rather no new vidya be made at all than even a single game which they don't want to play.

Kind of like grognards, come to think of it.

>>53698217
>Strategy genre is dead
Yes, gookclick is dead, actual strategy games are entering a renaissance period

>>53698285
Not as bad as people who think MoO2 is the pinnacle of space 4X and that nothing in that genre came out since.
Legit met a bunch of thought all the games that came after didn't count as space 4X because they weren't carbon copies of MoO2 with modern graphics.

>>53698275
Stellaris is a fucking amazing game.

I'm glad I have a shitton other things to do in my life or I'd waste it away playing it. I doubt I'd even succeeded in my studies if it came out when I was younger.

>>53698279
lets not even refer to grand strategy games like EU4 and total war.

>playing M&T 2.0 with jewish venice bankers

>>53698298
The thing with /v/ is that its made up exclusively by people who no longer enjoy games, but can't bring themselves to find a new hobby, like a junkie chasing his first high.

If they actually enjoyed video games, they'd be playing video games instead of shitposting about them.

>>53698312
Honestly Aurora is better than MoO2.

>>53698292
>if you destroy some books other books
no if you destroy some books THOSE SAME BOOKS STILL EXIST

>>53698329
the saner /vg/ generals are much better than /v/.

>>53698337
Yes, exactly: other copies still exist. But you are avoiding the main point again, how nice of you.

>>53698349
>saner /vg/ generals
So like 1% of the /vg/'s threads are better than /v/'s?

>This thread
It's cute, seeing how open and optimistic /tg/ still manages to be.

Just remember all the good that did for /co/.

>>53698349
No doubt man, I gotta say I'm much happier after I ditched /v/ for a few select /vg/ threads.

Discussing games I enjoy is a lot better than endless console wars and shitposting.

>>53698363
>other copies exist
ok so then I don't care about whatever argument you are making, you clearly don't care about the actual content of the hobby

>>53698369
/co/ depends on the developers for their cartoons and comics.
All /tg/ needs to run a game is pen and paper.

>>53698374
He doesn't even play tabletop rpgs.

>>53698369
Bombshells is quality, man. I don't know what you're complaining about.

>>53698369
>casuals are invading our cartoons and superhero comics
are you retarded

>>53698366
>total war general discusses total war
>4xg discusses 4x games
>gsg discusses mods while posting ebin memes

As opposed to 100% of /v/ shitpost threads

>>53698397
of course

I hate /v/ so much

>>53698374
>I don't care about the mass spreading of idiocy and ignorance
Well stay in your sphere then. Doesn't change that the world is moving while you stay in your happy place.

>>53696222
That's not how it worked. When a hit came below your armor but above your natural AC, the armor deflected the blow.

>>53698275
>with regular Civilization games coming out
They fucking suck dude, the last good civ was 4.

>>53698426
>while you stay in your happy place
ok? im having fun with friends and this is apparently a bad thing. Is this a /pol/ thing? We have to 'combat degeneracy' or some bullshit?

>>53698169
As another anon mentioned earlier, that's because "good" means different things in different media. The writing in a video game has a different purpose than the writing in a book, and it has to change fundamentally to accomplish that.

To put it another way, consider the quote "If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believe it is stupid." You're looking at one form of media, judging it according to the standards of a completely different one, and calling it bad because it doesn't effectively accomplish the other medium's goals. Of course you're disappointed, you keep trying to cut down the tree with a herring.

>>53698438
>everything sux
the only bad civ since 4 was BE and even it is salvageable with the codex mod.

>>53698426
>while you stay in your happy place.
Well yes, and ?

You guys will see that you are severely fucking up your hobby by letting foreigners come into it like mudslimes are ruining Europe

>>53698453
how is getting butthurt over people playing D&D doing that you faggot.

>>53698452
What the fuck is BE?

@53698452
>the only bad civ since 4 was BE
No (You) for you from (Me).