8e Tau Discussion Part 3: Drones are People Too

Age of gundrones

Coldstar and plane combo is pretty good

>>53695171
coldstar can fire its weapons after moving 40", at b3, bs2 if it takes a target lock. pretty cool.

>>53695270
And you can use plane markerlights to give him reroll hit1

Very good anti-infantry combo

>>53695151
I'm eager to see the stats Remoras get; they're one of my favorite FW models. The TL changes are encouraging.

>>53695496
I'm personally curious about what they'll do for Heavy Gun drones, and especially so what they'll end up doing for Technical Drones.

I hope the Technical Drones get the ability to restore lost wounds to vehicles or something. That would be sweet.

>>53695270

Probably want an ATS on top too

>>53695644
that would be my 4th system yes.

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This coldstar/plane combo is a really good idea. Thanks anons!

>>53695636
yep! our own personal droneseers

Someone is taking hypothetical combos from here to meme about elsewhere

Played my first two games tonight, vs Orks and Dark Eldar. Pretty convincing victories in both.


BATTALION DETACHMENT
HQ
1x Cadre Fireblade – 42pts
1x Cadre Fireblade – 42pts
TROOPS
10x Strike Team – 80pts
10x Strike Team – 80pts
5x Strike Team – 40pts
FAST ATTACK
5x Pathfinders (Pulse accelerator) - 48pts
5x Pathfinders (Pulse accelerator) - 48pts

VANGUARD DETACHMENT
HQ
1x Longstrike (Railgun, 2 Gun Drones) – 191pts
ELITES
1x Ghostkeel (Ion Raker, 2 Flamers, Adv Targeting, 2*Stealth drone) - 167pts
1x Ghostkeel (Ion Raker, 2 Flamers, Adv Targeting, 2*Stealth drone) - 167pts
3 x Stealth Suits - 90pts

995pts – 7CP


Thoughts:

-Buffed Strike Team blob is terrifying.
-Stealth Suits in cover are a bitch to get rid of.
-Ghostkeels don't afraid of shooting.
-Markerlights are fine. Getting 5 on a target is a bonus, not a necessity.
-BS4+ is fine when you have weight of fire and rerolling 1s.
-Flamers are awesome.
-Photon grenades save lives.
-Railgun Longstrike is amazing, even moreso as an HQ slot enabling a detachment


I mostly used Stealth Team and Ghostkeels to absorb charges and murder people with overwatch and falling back in the following turn.
Watching someone charge a unit of 20 Ork Boyz into a 2x Flamer Ghostkeel and Strike Team blob supporting fire is hilarious.

I'm really digging the way the army plays, baiting charges and setting up Strike Team (and presumably Breacher Team) kill boxes feels exactly how I imagined Tau to play. This is Kau'yon motherfuckers.

I'm curious to see how Tau will perform against strong shooting armies, will need to use terrain well to overcome it as Fire Warriors really can't stand up to firepower.

>>53697338
were their lists good?

>>53697338
thoughts on upgrade longstrikes gun drones to something better? he gets +1 to wound vehicles and monsters, and at S5 that means wounding most vehicles and monsters on a 4+ with SMS or burst cannons.

>>53697889
Burst cannons are strictly worse than the Gun drones. same amount of shots, and the gun drone restrictions don't apply when embarked. Plus they're also S5 already.

SMS could be worthwhile to help prevent people from sneaking up on him while he blasts stuff at a range, but it's very expensive and only really useful in comparison to the other two in terms of range and ignoring walls

>>53697889

Waste of points imo, maybe if you're worried about a deep strike meta.
In these games he was under no threat whatsoever and could freely fly on top a building if any dickheads got too close.

>>53697812

Ork list was pretty thrown together, mostly dudespam that got wiped out my Rapid Fire FW blob.

DE list was fun to play against, Power from Pain timebomb with paper vehicles.
Ghostkeel -2 to hit was amazing for soaking heavy weapons.

>>53698083

Cont.

May main takeaway is this: the ability to soak charges and set up another round of rapid fire and overwatch is absolutely brutal.

Also, lack of knowledge and rule checking slowed the game down, but I don't really see 2000pt games working for tournaments. These 1000pt lists were fairly large, I can't imagine playing a game with double the amount of stuff in a timely manner. 1500 will probably be more manageable.

Just my 2 cents after a couple of small games, but there it is.

>>53697338
Out of interest why did you use so many duplicated load-outs, Only models you had? Going for combos? Thought these were the best options for their roles?

The reason I ask is in my head the start of an edition seems to be the perfect time to try out everything. so here I feel its a shame a 3rd of the points are spent on backups as it were.

Would be interesting to get your perspective

>>53697338
Id rather run a 2nd hammerhead because of Longstrike synergy than a 2nd Ghostkeel

Not sure how to make that work with detachments

Nice to see some lists doing good work
Any units being stinkers?

>>53697889
smart missile systems will shoot at the same speed as the rail gun and will have better range and hit targets he can't see.

SMS is fantastic. but gundrones if you want to be cheap. since if you're still alive and its the last turn you can deploy them to be 3 models near a point instead of 1.

>>53698435
well a battalion would allow for up to 3 heavy supports so no problem there.

>>53699697
Sky ray, since its essentially just a vehicle hull to bring 6 mortal wounds to the table. its just expensive without any of its old tricks and really doesn't fill any rolls that other units can't do better.

especially since it can't be buffed by long strike either so it doesn't even have synergies with a longstrike armor list.

>>53701095
Sky Ray really needed a Velocity tracker to be more worthwhile at the bare minimum, since then it could at least be Skyfire Markerlights

Seeker missiles being trash is also a problem problem.

>>53701124
i get peoples complaints, but don't underestimate on call mortal wounds, especially with certain units losing effectiveness with damage. doing that one extra damage to some flying monstrosity and slowing it down could be all you needed to get away from said horror.

A velocity tracker or target lock either or.

Is it halal to name your commander Shas'bot?

>>53701216
Not dissing on seeker missiles, but there are plenty of other platforms that give you seeker missiles, along with a more useful body. Skyray is the densest collection, but 6 seekers really isn't worth the cost of the skyray itself.

>>53701238
That's Shas'o'bot, to you.

>>53701316
agreed. its shame i like the look of the sky ray but it just doesn't do anything well enough.

and as i mentioned above, because it doesn't work with Longstrikes hammerhead bonus, hammerheads can fire seeker missiles far more accurately in certain cases.

>>53701238
>>53701316
this

its Shas'O'bot. gotta have your commanders rank in there.

>>53701356
Yeah. If the Sky Ray had a Velocity Tracker, Target Lock, and got the bonus from Longstrike, it'd be much more worthwhile.

Then, it would be a mobile Markerlight platform that would fire at BS 3+ against most things 2+ against flyers, and be even more accurate even when damaged if Longstrike was with them.

Right now it feels like you could better spend the points on a Devilfish with some pathfinders in it

How much damage should seeker missiles and destroyers do?
Aside from infinite of course

>>53701447
as they're costed right now they're fine

but d3 and 3 with a price increase would be fine too.

>>53701447
1d3 and 1d6, respectively

or then keep them as they are, but remove the one-use only

>>53701447
I still feel like having them just deal twice as many mortal wounds to Vehicles and Monsters would suffice.

6 Seeker missiles for 2 damage each is enough to take out lighter vehicles easily and heavier vehicles with some luck. 4 destroyer missiles for 4 each is more than enough to sheer chunks out of a knight.

They might need to be more expensive in that case though, or be limited so you can't fire as many in a turn.

I'm expecting the Skyray will get an overhaul of some sort when our codex comes out.

I just read the hammerhead gunship rules and there's STILL no reason to take burst cannons instead of drones or smart missiles. Why even have em there???

>>53703167
SMS has better range and ignore LoS, compared to gun drones.

>>53703246
yes sms is great

he's specifically talking about the burst cannons

>>53703167
>tfw one of my 4 hammerheads has burst cannons glued to it since i bought it off of a friend
Fuck i'm going to have to keep paying that tax to satisfy my wysiwyg autism and its going to be even more painful now.

>>53703483
Oh, you're right, I mis-read.

Yeah, rip burst cannons.

>>53698406

Most efficient combos in my opinion. The Ghostkeel flamers could be switched out I guess but they worked extremely well in overwatch killzones.


>>53698435

A 2nd hammerhead wouldn't have been much use to me here I think.
At 1000pts there weren't enough viable targets to make good use of their weaponry that a Ghostkeel or infantry couldn't deal with well enough.
The Ghostkeels were also key to absorbing a lot of attention, either through the opponent missing shots with D6 heavy weapons that would have crippled a Hammerhead quickly, or through baiting charges.

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So... thinking about converting a coldstar. I happen to have some piranha parts about and remember the aries from gundam wing?

Here's a rough and dirty shop job.

>>53705231
That is terrifying.

>>53705231
Aren't two on the shoulders enough? Or is the suit "surfing" a piranha?

>>53701545
>>53701550
>>53701553

maybe if enough people whine gw will do something

>>53705231

Just on the shoulders might work
Four though...
>i am become hideous, eyesore among men

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>>53705286
>>53705305
>>53705343

Yeah, it's not quite right, but I want to do away with the legs, make it very clearly an air based thing, can barely land in gravity.

Like this sucker.

Imma sleep on it and try again.

>>53705231

Perhaps it would be better to use the drone-sized reactors Razorshark. I believe you don't use them if you build a Sunshark instead. You may consider these simply because they are smaller.

who excited for FW indexes
I wanna see the mantas numbers

>>53705624
I'm curious if there will be any reference or effect of our deepstrike now directly involving a Manta fluff-wise.

>>53705967
allowing any suits and vehicles to deep strike closer to enemy units along the mantas flight path as a low altitude drop. allows suits to get into melta range.

I know its not much but its essentially just what the manta's doing, just instead of low orbit or or atmospheric, its dropping them right on top of the enemy position.

Please give me guesses on taunar stats
I wanna see the craziness

>>53705967
>By paying the low price of 1000 GBP
>You may deepstrike the manta with your other units. Shove aside enemy models if needed to make room

>>53706065
>Any enemy models shoved off the board in this fashion are destroyed

>>53706153
Perfect
Needs some poor wording somewhere cause FW writing

>>53706177

And glaring typos.

And the current AoS favourite, the wrong keywords.

>>53698213
Not really up to you, man. I play Tau too and I agree kindof. My 2K list folded into around 1650, so it's easier to field a 1.5K army I think. But I was talking to my Black Templars friend and his 2K army ballooned to 2.6K.

We've still yet to playtest our armies, first game might be tomorrow but it really depends.

>>53697338
Forgive my idiocy but how do you "Absorb Charges" ?

>>53706743
Usa a unit that can survive the enemy charge, then fall back on your turn and shoot the gits.

>>53706802
Ah right, my bad. Yeah that sounds dope, so you essentially park Strike team blobs next to each other with fireblades and stealthsuits a bit in front?

>>53706743

"Tanking" charges might be a better term.

All battlesuits got a pretty solid buff to survivabilty in 8e, making them able to take a charge with minimal casualties and be able to retreat the next turn to open the charging unit up to shooting.

Stealth suits are quite good at this; good save, decent toughness, -1 to hit (-2 if a supporting unit hits a photon grenade in overwatch) and any nearby drones can take wounds.

A unit of 2/3 Flamer crisis suits would be pretty good at this too.

You could also screen with drones or kroot but they have vulnerabilities to Morale tests that battlesuits can largely ignore.

>>53706880
That's fantastic. I use a lot of stealthsuits and I WAS actually considering running flamers on my ghostkeel now. I don't like the randomness but they DO autohit in overwatch which should be something to keep in mind.

>Planes will have their guns modified to be assault versions with shorter range!
>Razorshark quad ion: heavy4 or heavy d6
>on a model that is forced to move
Fuck this shit. They put the same summer trainee that wrote the 6e ork codex to do the 8e tau index it seems. It's full of these idiocies.

I'm kinda bummed outflank got fucked up, I loved using HQs with infantry and stealthsuits to make a "coming out of the walls" list with lots of ambushes. It was incredibly fun, gave me excellent board control and kept the opponent on their toes. They think some objective is uncontested near their deployment zone when suddenly rail rifles up their ass and it's under my banner.

Also don't like the Fireblade buff being half-range. I specifically fielded one for the long-range wall of bullets, didn't pick ethereals on purpose. But I suppose if the style of the army works better with shorter range, then I'll give it a chance.

>>53705624
I would if they had bothered to spend 15 minutes writing down rules, no matter how shitty, for the knarlocs.

>>53706923
Given the short range of the ghostkeels main weapon I can see flamers being a viable option. Putting yourself in range to shoot 18" leaves you open to a charge, and flamers do quite nicely in that situation. Either the enemy takes a risky 8" charge (~42%) or they take 4d6 auto hits.

>>53707755
Is the fusion collider even good? It used to be shit due to small blast but I don't like the randomness of former-blasts. I'd rather take the Raker with ATS, guaranteed 6 shots at S7 AP-2 and 1 damage each. Seems loads more reliable and if you take dual fusion blasters, you get enough anti-tank there.

How many buffs can we theoretically give Fire Warriors?

Offensive
1. Fireblade Cadre to give them +1 shot - how many FW can we fit in that 6" buff range?
2. Commander declaring Kayuon to let them reroll hits
3. 5 marker lights for +1 BS to one target
4. Darkstrider can buff one unit to reduce enemy toughness by 1. (Will only matter vs T3, T5, T10)
5. Pulse drone for +6" range

Defensive
1. Guardian Drone for 6+ invuln
2. Ethereal for 6+ ignore

Am I missing anything?

I have a question guys.

If a firewarrior unit gets charged, after owervatch and fighting it can retreat the next turn but it CANNOT shoot. It can however charge the other unit or shoot in the next turn (if it doesn't get charged again, with another overwatch).

If a crisis unit (a FLY unit) gets charged, it can retreat the next turn and it can shoot the unit that charged it, then charge it itself or wait for the next turn and shoot them again (if it doesn't get charged again, meaning another overwatch)

Did I get this right?

>>53707801
You can't advance, shoot or charge if you fall back

Flying units can shoot after falling back

>>53707797
It's not a direct buff on the unit itself, but an open-topped building (tidewall or imperial bastion) will keep them immune from harm - including charges - until the building is destroyed. Much better than the 4+ cover save in 7th.

>>53707797
Ho shit, I forgot drones are no longer attached so they give buffs to anyone that applies. 36" range for Pulse Rifles would be dope as fuck and makes Fireblades better, since it'll work at 18" not 15.

>>53707909
I'm really struggling to work out the point of pulse carbines on fire warriors now. Is there any reason at all to take them?

Is it worth it to do a bayonet charge in case you clearly see that the next turn, he will charge you?

>>53707822
Thanks!!

>>53707944
I guess if you insist on moving them each turn perhaps? Double the shots and 24" with a pulse accelerator. Even with an accelerator, carbines double the output at 6" longer range. Considering now charges still move you and mobility got increased across the board, they might have a good use.

>>53707944
City fights.

>>53707944
Assault weapons can advance and shoot (at -1 to hit).

With a pulse drone:

FW with Carbines can move 6", advance D6", and shoot 2 shots at 24".
A commander can use Montka to remove the hit penalty.

FW with Rifles can move 6" and shoot 1 shot at 36", or 2 shots at 18"

Rifles are usually better but not strictly better, since there are some situations where you'll want the extra 6+D6" threat range on Carbines.

>>53708150
what I don't like about the HQ buffs is the bubble itself. It kinda forces you to waste expensive leaders as buffbots when their statlines can be better used with stronger weaponry elsewhere. You have to have a Commander within 6" for anyone to benefit from the Kauyon/Mont'ka abilities, which means he's going to be elsewhere drilling priority targets with heavier guns.

>>53708279
NOT going to be elsewhere*

>>53708279
You can bring multiple commanders and position them strategically

Commanders are seriously amazing and you should bring 2+ to every game

>>53708294
I just bought shas'o r'alai to use either as himself or as a commander proxy. I'll magnetize him to give him his weapon or a classic commander's weapons. It's such a cool model!!

>>53708294
I already bring 4 HQs though. Shadowsun, Darkstriders, a Fireblade and a regular Commander. Doesn't seem to make sense to me fielding multiple Shas'Os from a fluff perspective.

Can you declare a Kauyon or Mont'ka once per commander or total?

>>53708474
>Can you declare a Kauyon or Mont'ka once per commander or total?
Total

Shadowsun and Farsight can do it a 2nd time

>>53705328
That's what living FAQ will be for!

>>53708598
I see. So you can't really get much tactical advantage out of them, just that you can field untargetable superelite crisis suits.

>deploy Shadowsun
>fly her 3+ invuln shield drones to something more valuable, like a riptide

How can we abuse this

>>53705624
I am. I have Tetras and XV9s. Also want to get Remora and/or Barracudas, as also Drone Sentry Turrets

>>53708788
I finished building a custom remora a few weeks ago, now I can't bloody use it for another few weeks.

Do you think they will release a non-finecast Vespids, Sniper Drones and so on now that they are much more valuable?

>>53707126
>outflank
Dude, that was my favorite USR in the entire game. I'd exchange FTGG for Outflank everywhere in a heartbeat!

Used to outflank tetras and bring the heat with Crisis. But with Homing Beacon changes and the (possible) loss of Outflank in Tetras, this strategy is kaputt.

>>53708822
Next Tau update will supposedly add more aux stuff

Rumours say some kind of psyker race

>>53707775
I think FC it's too expensive. Quad-Fusion Commander do the melting job better

>>53708840
what rumours? give us the link at once!

>>53708901

Lady Atia has said that the Tau will get stuff not directly part of the Tau Empire.

>>53708840

NICASSAR IN GRAV INHIBITOR MECHASUITS!

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Ghostkeel Shadowsun and Necron/Eldar/Daemon Farsight when?

>>53708916
...that doesn't imply we'll have psykers. It implies different stuff from normal T'au Empire, surely; but I wouldn't say 'we're getting X!'.

>>53708837
Fuckin' right, anon.

What is the point of homing beacon, even? It allows pinpoint deepstriking to units that can deepstrike.. but they do that already.

>>53708982
So you can deepstrike close than over 9 inches from something. Aka put 9 flamers/Fusion blasters within range/melta range.

Followed by drinking the tears of whatever you just obliterated.

Lets talk about the Ghostkeel

Is it an effective anti infantry choice?
Yes, but other options exist. Coldstar, Riptide, Missilesides are all more cost effective at wiping infantry off the table.

Is it an effective anti tank hunter?
It can do decent damage with a Fusion Collider but a 4FB Commander can do more damage and also deep strike directly into position.

So what is good and unique about the Ghostkeel?

It has 2 support systems that dont cost any weapon slots, which makes it a good choice for a Drone Controller. Usually it must take a Target Lock because otherwise it's firing at BS5+ with its main weapon, which leaves one spot open.

The -2 Hit from shooting attacks more than 12" away combos VERY well with an Early Warning Override to make a very effective at stopping deep strike maneuvers.
Deploy within 12"? Get shot.
Deploy outside of 12"? Can't charge and -2 to hit.

I think the Ghostkeel can make a very effective flank protector.

>>53709006
Ah right, but if the enemy moves within a certain range, the beacon is destroyed. So you have to place it and immediately deepstrike or else it doesn't work.

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What role do you think Gue'vessas sgould have?

>>53709026
>Ah right, but if the enemy moves within a certain range, the beacon is destroyed. So you have to place it and immediately deepstrike or else it doesn't work.
Just think of it like paying 20 points to get a 4FB commander in melta bonus range

>>53709026
Also, it now only allows for ONE unit to deep strike near it... and they doubled its price!
It's only worth for Flamer and Melta suits

>>53709050
But suits can only shoot 3 weapons now? Or there's no limit to how many?

What are the chances that the Tau will get psyker or psyker nullifier now that we ddont even have a basic deny witch role?

>>53709082
Commander can equip 4 weapons

You can shoot every weapon you have equipped

Is the missilemander [commander with 4 missile pods] a viable replacement for the missileside?

>>53709092
I could see Tau getting anti-psyker support systems

Something like "A model equipped with this can attempt to Deny the Witch once per turn."

Or a special signature system that lets you Deny and gives you +2 to Deny.

>>53709038
> Integrated guevesa
Not-firewarriors without the usual tau buffs, but with more buff to hold a position. Maybe?
> Behind the lines infiltrators
Those are the guys tau infiltrate on imperial world, or local sympathisers. Light infantry that pop up anywhere to throw you a demo charge.
Maybe give a Ld malus bubble to IG units the turn they arrive because confusion? Or some objective or strategic thing I don't know.

More probably: IG detachment.

>>53709092
Auxiliary psykers!
> Kroot shaman
> Nicassar pressurised psychic suit
> Nagi worms as an upgrade that "make" the bearer a psyker

Or maybe tau natural low psychism sometime go even lower and they get extra paria. Just that the tau have difficulty finding them without an auxiliary psyker.
> Void cast

>>53709038
I think they should allow us to grab an AM choice alongside a Tau one, just like GSC do
Or maybe one per Ethereal/Commander

>>53709149
Not necessarily

4 Missile Pods has the same number of shots as 2 High Yield Missile Pods but the Commander cant take any support systems with that build so youre missing out on ATS for more damage output.

Commander with 4 MP is 172 and BS2+
Missile Broadside is 184 and comes with 2 Plasma Rifles or 2 SMS (+18) at BS4+

Missilesides have a good niche as a stationary turret in cover using ATS, moving when you have sufficient markerlights to ignore the penalty or if you use Montka.

Ive also been thinking about using a missileside with a Counterfire Defense System and keeping them 6" from my frontline for FTGG. 30% accuracy on 16 missile shots is a pretty good overwatch. Park a few drones behind it out of line of sight to absorb Lascannon hits and you're golden.

I think missile broadsides can still fill niches but commanders with 4 missile pods are not a bad choice. The ultimate deciding factor will be whether you want a fast mobile missile unit (Commander) or a stationary turret unit (Broadside).

Stealthsuits are going to be star players, mark my words. So fucking happy I got 12 of them. One of the coolest goddamn models.

>>53709335
>One of the coolest gunddamn models
FTFY

>>53709373
>BRAVESTORMUUUUUUU!!!!

>>53709335

In before we have a new box waiting for us with new poses, weapons, drones, and options.

>>53709409
Fug. That'd be like my Rubrics all over again.
>tfw barred from fielding soulreaper cannons because classic rubrics come in packs of 9.

>>53709335
Heres my review of Stealth Drones


PROS:
>Only unit that can drop homing beacons
>Combo with Shadowsun for a strong infiltrator squad. Having Shadowsun take the hits with her 5++ then passing them to Stealth Suits makes the entire squad more durable.
>2 wounds each makes them a target for D3 damage weapons, which can both underperform and overperform on targets with only 2 wounds
>3+ save, and its easy to get cover with them for a 2+ save
>-1 to hit them at all times, even in melee
>Support System does not cost a weapon slot, makes them a good candidate for a Drone Controller

CONS:
>Low damage output. Gun drones are more cost effective.
>Weak to 2 damage weapons - how many are there? I havent seen many
>Only 6 wounds for 90+ points makes them vulnerable to mortal wounds
>Infiltrator can put them in a bad position for Smite, which when combined with above means you dont want to go anywhere near Psykers

Stealth Suits are good but I cant see myself ever running 12. They have specific battlefield roles and getting more than 6 seems a waste of points unless you have a very specific strategy in mind

>>53709465
Your cons are kindof specific. the 2 damage weapons I haven't seen many at all as well. anti-psyker is a bit of a moot point as they will fuck up most anything due to the nature of mortal wounds. The other 2 are good points though.

I would put versatility on their pros too. 2 fusion blasters make them nice candidates to shit fire and fury on multi-wound models (good with multitracker since they always get the reroll due to having 1 gun). Your drone controller pro is also nice with 2 marker drones, providing great markerlight support and, in a pinch, the shas'vre can use his own markerlight. Finally, minimum 4 burst cannons with ATS makes them pretty great against a lot of stuff, coupled with their bait'n'shoot tactics after tanking a charge for the Fire Warriors, as someone above wrote.

>>53709634
>anti-psyker is a bit of a moot point as they will fuck up most anything due to the nature of mortal wounds.
Not really

Like in AOS, Mortal Wounds are limited and do specific amounts of damage. If you can take points off the board with one cast then you're getting tons of value from them.

Denying your enemy value from Smite is important because there are no other counters to mortal wounds. Smite is unique in that it must target the nearest unit, so you want to play around it by putting high wound models like Planes or low cost models like Fire Warriors as the closest models to Pyskers.

Putting a unit like Stealth Suits that are low wound count and high cost per wound, and thus vulnerable to mortal wounds, in a position where they can get hit by mortal wounds is a big risk.

D6 mortal wounds will kill at least one stealth suit worth 30+ points 83% of the time. A max damage smite will kill 90+ points worth of models.
Compare this to killing D6 Fire Warriors that cost 8 points each... a max damage smite will only do a max of 48 points worth of damage.

>>53709729
I see, then I agree with you. I guess you need to employ proper tactics and give psykers a wide berth. They're still very good against a lot of stuff.

Plus, I love their look and fluff and they fit my theme, that's why I field 12 of 'em

>>53709779
>Plus, I love their look and fluff and they fit my theme, that's why I field 12 of 'em
Cant argue with that! They look cool and you should play whatever you like.

>>53706988
Pretty sure fly mechanic ignores heavy weapon firing penalties.

>>53709844
Seems kindof silly for battlesuits to get the heavy or assault weapon hit penalty honestly. Where are all the benefits to the FLY keyword written?

>>53707775
Check the OP for damage calc links comparing them.

>>53710152
Thank you. basically Raker against GEQ and MEQ but TEQ and vehicles the collider is statistically better.

I'm more surprised by the secondary weapons. Fusions are mediocre for infantry but great when targets get heavier. Flamers vice versa but are even shittier when they get shitty but Burst Cannons are actually a fairly decent middle ground between the two.

>>53709844
>Pretty sure fly mechanic ignores heavy weapon firing penalties.
Where is this referenced? I cant find it

>>53710288
Well, Fusion simply doesn't have enough shots to do much against infantry, with the majority of its AP and D being wasted. The BC was actually a mistake that I just fixed - I accidentally had the Damage for it listed as 2 instead of 1, on accident. So it also drops off pretty hard versus heavier stuff, but the sheer weight of fire it quite helpful, and at a much longer range than the flamer.

>>53710414
Man, I shouldn't enter data when I'm too tired. I forgot to double the shots for the 2*Flamer on the Keel, should have been 7 shots, not 3.5. Fixed now. So Flamer IS better versus GEQs than BC, but Flamer has the more limited range of the two, which makes sense.

>>53710450
>>53710414
Ah ok, makes more sense now. Guess BCs are kinda useless now on the keel but then again they always were. It's really nice seeing flamers make a comeback in general though. I wish stealthsuits could take them.

>>53710329
they don't

>>53710482

BCs are a meme
Like on vehicles they are strictly worse

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Rate my pulse accelerator kitbash?

anybody had luck with a battlesuit heavy list and/or farsight?

>>53711268

I heard Farsight isn't half bad.
Suit spam ehhhh, not as potent so far

>>53711268
Crisis suits themselves have a body too expensive to spam them effectively. They're potentially useful, but don't work as a primary force.

>>53708840
Drones&Alien allies supplement would be nice.

>>53708916

Sounds like Enclaves stuff more than aux troops

>>53711268

Honestly curious here, yeah. I bought into Tau after coming off Khorne daemons, and wanted to switch from a horde-based playstyle into something very elite. I ran multiple full units of stealth suits, some Ghostkeels, crisis troops dropping with plasma and fusion and a marker commander as my core. Usually broadsides and remoras for support, but I had some extra stuff to switch up with.

I really don't have any interest in buying into fire warrior spam, or even switching my marker drones to pathfinders. It doesn't even fit my army theme of stealth unit ambushes with limited fire support.

>>53711141
Nice, which pieces did you use ?

I think Riptide might be a good/ok drone herder this edition. Marker drone team and riptide with HBC+SMS/Plasma share roughly the same range and both move relatively fast. Riptide benefits from the extra wounds and drones gets to keep really durable d.controller carrier.

>>53713179
Dronetide? I like it

353 for a Riptide with:
Heavy Burst Cannon
2 Plasma Rifles
2 Shielded Missile Drones
Target Lock
Drone Controller

Then you bring some squads of gun drones, sniper drones, and a pulse drone. Probably about 500-600 points total.

Could be cool

>>53713179
Makes sense. Since the quality of BS doesn't matter for the drone controller, giving it to a big singular thing makes a lot of sense

>>53713179
>>53713388
Riptide gets two SS slots too, doesn't it? One for DC, one for ATS.

>>53713388
Yeah and with bigger model you get bigger aura area to buff units.

with the DS changes
if DS to win becomes meta, will everything stick on EWO?

Whats good about pirahnas?

The only niche I can see for them is their 16" movement.

>>53707909
i was thinking of taking two pulse drones and keeping them in a devilfish and only using them when i need them because i know for sure any savy opponent will try to snipe them asap. which is neat. and this of course for a mobile devilfish group (you can fit two 5 man pathfinder teams + 2 pulse accelerator drones in a devilfish and then only the pathfinders can disembark and you can leave both drones in.

>>53714004
Support systems are a huge opportunity cost.

I wouldnt equip EWO on every unit because they don't do anything to stop shooting over 12" and they are a wasted slot if they choose not to deep strike.

However, having some dedicated anti Deep Strike units like a Ghostkeel (see my post here >>53709016) seems like a good idea. A Stormsurge would work well, too

>>53713170
An XV8 leg with a cut up objective marker and the back of a burst cannon (plus the muzzle part for the upper body). I bought a bag filled to the brim with random bits for 10€ and made a fireblade, two shas'ui pathfinders, three sniper drone kitbashes and two pulse rifle kitbashes. Also there were a LOT of weapons for crisis suits!

>>53707948
depends, if you just die in that combat, then that unit can shoot and attack something else.

if you think you can pin them in, or you can force heavy weapon troops to fall back, or that by going first you can kill a critical mass of them (preferably all) then yes, its a great charge. however if you're charging into lets a group of khorne berzerkers.

no, no its a terrible idea.

Has anyone had a chance to try out Tidewall in 8th? It looks like a solid buffer against melee for squishy Fire Warriors and Pathfinders and possibly a viable way to lock down objectives.

>>53714004
EWO is best on either big suits in the back that may be targeted by DS attackers, or by suits you have guarding your backline. PR is a prime pick for it.

>>53714075
drop zounds of drones and can quickly grab objectives

>>53709844
It does not.

>>53709864
literally just in the fall back section. or any special rules pertaining to units with keyword fly.

>>53709864
There's support equipment like the target lock, and then there's marker lights, plenty of ways around it so i don't really see it as an issue, most battle suit weapons are assault and rapid fire anyways and that only really matters if you advance. and target locks buff that too.

>>53714075
>>53714616
Piranhas also seem nice for being cheap seeker missile support

>>53709789
I got 5 of the old XV15s for like $15. Best deal I've gotten in a while.

>>53715185
At 4+ BS and -1 to hit because they will almost always be moving before shooting

>>53715616
Not any worse than other Seeker missile platforms. Plus if you have 2 markerlights on the target, you're very close to having 3 to ignore the movement penalties

>>53706988
It specifically says you get +1 on ground targets

>>53715640
>Not any worse than other Seeker missile platforms
Hammerheads are 3+ baseline and can get +1 to hit from Longstrike, making them 2+ rerollable seeker missiles

Stormsurge can anchor for 3+ and doesnt suffer a penalty for moving and firing

So yeah Id say Piranhas are worse than other platforms

>>53715827
They're also much, much cheaper than those

I can't decide if any of the support systems are even bad
Most seem pretty solid

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So, how is the Razorshark compared to the Sunshark? The later have a clear role, eliminating blobs of infantry. What's the role or pros of the former?

>>53716072
Razorshark brings the Quad-Ion Turret and (most likely) a Missile-Pod, making it more suited to firing at medium to heavy infantry or light vehicles, as opposed to the light-infantry slaughter that is the Sunshark.

>>53714075
Seem good for putting one FB hit in something and die right after

>>53716072
Pretty much >>53716128

Not quite as good for taking out flyers since it can't get a VT, but better than the Bomber at it.

I think it needs markerlights to shine there though, since it can't fire the Quad Ion at full BS since it's heavy

>>53716150
It gets +1 BS at ground targets, cancelling the -1

>>53715810
Fuck you are right. I completely missed that. Maybe razorshark isn't a complete waste of space after all.

>>53715185
Piranhas are best for lots of quick fire on a target, or a quick fusion blaster.


or think of them as a medic unit if you take them in a group. any unit under heavy fire can have drones dropped off on them and then the piranhas can keep up their infantry blocking harass role,

>>53715879
They definitely push a specific role even further.

Broadsides love Multitrackers for making them more efficient turrets.

Drone Controllers are neat on models that are mobile and can buff different Drones. Ghostkeel is a great contender.

Advanced Targeting System is great for giving a weapon with a lot of firepower more punch. Heavy Burst Cannon Nova'd with an extra bit of AP can shred a Marine squad especially if there is Markerlight support or even Multitrackers. Same with Flamers. Extra AP never hurt.

Target Lock to me seems like a must on Stealth Suits if you want them to be as mobile as possible.

I wish Krootox had more going for them. The stats of the model feel like they would make a great gunline protector. Especially with a screen of hounds or Gun Drones.

>>53716755

What about the Velocity Tracker and the Counterfire Defense System?

>>53715879
agreed, as i said every edition since 5th. build your units with a role in mind. and i like how all the support systems sort of feed into that. just make sure you're not taking multi-trackers on crisis suits when you already have about 20 marker lights.

but a multi-tracker is good for things that won't need marker light support or who will be hitting different targets than the rest of the force. and at 2 points its cheap enough not to hate.

>>53717104
velocity trackers are great, they cancel out a fliers hit penalty and work against a lot of other units (though mileage may vary if you put it on a commander lets say.)

Counter fire is great if you have a squad that's dedicated to protecting a core.

put them on the edges of your force and prevent turn 1 charges.

>>53717104

VT to murder armies with lots of Fly keyword

Counterfire for that sweet Overwatching potential, essentially enabling it at about 5+ instead of 6+.

>>53713179
Just a take a drone controller in your group of 6 xv8, you can pull him last and they get to deep strike with their 12 gun drones.

>>53694997
What's the consensus on Broadsides in 8th? Haven't had a minute to thumb through the leaks thoroughly

>>53719479
Expensive, but solid. Railside is very attractive now as a vehicle/monster killer, with occasional bonus mortal wounds on the railgun. Missileside works better vs heavy infantry or light vehicles.

>>53719549
Gotcha. Any stand out loadouts yet?

>>53719758
target lock is usually mandatory to keep bs4+, unless you have perfect high cover deployment with a rail rifle so you can just sit still and shoot in which idk what to take
I've also seen ATS + all missile loadout look decent for taking on infantry and even dealing with termies with S7 Ap-2

>>53719758
ATS, TL, VT, EWO and DC are all solid picks. I might try a DC setup with it herding some marker drones.

>>53719758

Not really yet.
Loadout vary off what you want to do and still too early for any sort of consensus

so... are you telling me that stealthsuits give a -1 to shoot for their stealth and -1 because they have the fly keyword?? is this real??

>>53723426
No. Read the book

>>53723426

airborne keyword is the one you are thinking of for the minus to hit

>>53723426
fly doesn't give you -1 to hit.

fly lets you shoot if you fall back out of combat.

certain fliers have a rule you're thinking of, but its not fly.

What is the best way to deal with quantum shielding on necron vehicles?

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Do you think hologram Aun'va is still in charge after one century?

>>53723558
I mean, at this point, I would have hoped the Ethereals would have been able to choose a successor, say Aun'va peacefully died in his sleep while things were relatively quiet, and then put the new guy in charge.

Spacepope living another century when he was already ancient and not making a single new speech during that time would get insanely obvious to everyone involved.

>>53723538
High volume of low-D weapons? I'm intending to run some numbers on how things like FB, HRR and Railgun: Solid stack up against things like Missile Pods+ATS, but I think that d3 weapons will be potentially safer due to not having a significant chance of having the entire attack cancelled. Maybe PR?

>>53723594
What is PR?

>>53723538
I feel missile pods or rail rifles would be the way, though those are hard to get in large numbers. Fire warrior blobs could probably do it, but getting them into position is a problem.

Seeker missiles actually might be worthwhile against those, actually.

>>53723636
Plasma Rifle. Great AP, with only D1.

>>53723594
Quad PR commander looks like a solid choice, eight shots is pretty good, not great against t7+ though.

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Pathfinders with Ion Rifle vs Rail Rifle. Discuss.

>>53723558

who knows, dunno when we'll find out about anything xenos

>>53723538

decent AP low damage, quantity of shots

>>53723690
The fact that Ion rifles are 7 points to the 22 of the Rail rifle makes them a lot more appealing. For strict comparisons though, I think the Ion Rifle isn't that outstanding. Has some utility in wounding T4 on 2s if you overcharge and have a reroll to hit handy, but generally doesn't feel like a big step up from just using the standard carbines.

Rail Rifles seem pretty nice for taking chunks out of vehicles thanks to high AP, and in large numbers the chance for mortal wounds on a 6 can help there as well.

In a sense, I think it's a case of getting what you pay for. 12 points total for a slightly better gun for dealing with guardsmen and marines, or 27 points total for an anti-elite/vehicle weapon

feel like i've missed something but can are farsight armies legal outside of taking the vanguard detachment?

Will we have to wait for a codex to make crisis suits core units instead of elite?

>>53723829
FSE is just Vanguard now. Codex may add some subfaction specific rules and strategems.

>>53723538

Looking at some stats
T6 and 4+
They can tank heavy shots but moderate strength not so much.

Funnily enough a burst-tide might actually be solid against them.
Nova charge and a few ML hits to ensure you don't miss everything.
Wounds on 4+ and reduces the save to a 6+ assuming no ATS. If you tagged with say 5 MLs with ATS
Lets say 10 hits.
5 wound, save neglected, 5 wounds gone.

A missileside might be pretty potent too, can multi wound a bit and probably wont get quantumed much

>>53709050
90 points. unit size is 3 minimum and you have to buy the burst cannon as well

>>53719758
Missiles + CDS as a frontline overwatch turret

Missiles + ATS for back line turret

Railgun + Plasma + TL for tank/monster sniping

>>53723538
High volume, high strength, low damage

Missile Pods, Plasma Rifles, Cyclic Ion Blasters

Breachers are really good if you can get them in range. All necron vehicles with QS are only T6. Make sure you keep Darkstrider in there with them.

>>53723892
I was talking specifically about the homing beacon

>>53717104
Velocity Tracker is great for clearing the skies. Though I'll say that it's better on units that have a higher volume of fire. Missile Sides, Cyclic Ion or even Fusion Crisis suits, Riptide, or the Ghostkeel (I prefer him doing drone wrangling or harassing).

Counterfire again is good for the turret units/backline protectors. Units that can get a lot of use with a higher volume of fire.

Sorry, forgot about them.

>>53723594
>>53725630
>>53723870
>>53723674
>>53723663


Thank you anons! So i have to use stuff that does a lot of wounds but minimum damage, since the quantum shielding works with high damage output but not high wounds output.

>>53726031
Double fusion + velocity tracker crisis suit downing planes like Raiden in MGR. We rules of nature now.

>>53726090

Yep, if you vomit a mass of wounds that are just D1, quantum won't do a thing.
Fortunately Quantum doesn't do anything against a hail of wounds otherwise it'd be BROKEN

Next weekend I'm testing out my Tau against my friend's BT. I just lost a battle against him with my Thousand Sons by a hair, motherfuckers are scary in CC.

This is my list. It used to be themed around ambushing, outflank and other shenanigans.

Battalion Detachment

HQ: Commander (76) w/ 2x Cyclic Ion Blasters (36), ATS (8) and shield generator (8) = 128
HQ: Cadre Fireblade = 42
HQ: Darkstrider = 45

Troops: 4x 5-man Strike Team w/ markerlight = 43 each, 172
Troops: 7-man Strike team w/ markerlight = 59

Fast Attack: 10-man Pathfinder team w/ 3 rail rifles = 134

Vanguard Detachment

HQ: Shadowsun = 167

Elites: 2x 6-man Stealthsuits w/ 2x Fusion Blasters (202), shas'vre (fusion) has Drone Controller (5) and 2 marker drones (20), second fusion has multitracker (2), burst cannons have advanced targeting system (32) = 261 each, 522
Elites: Ghostkeel w/ 2 Stealth drones, Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x Fusion Blasters, Advanced Targetting system, shield generator = 231

1500 points, 7 CP (3 from Battalion, 3 from battleforged, 1 from Vanguard)

I'm worried Darkstrider is now useless due to how wounding got changed. His buff is essentially useless against anything but his bikers so I wound them on 3s instead of 4s.

Cont.

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>>53729464
I was thinking of perhaps removing Darkstrider and getting a few drones instead of him. I also am considering this tactic with my troops, a killbox of sorts.

The red lines are the Strike teams, with the 7-man in front. I field a Pulse Accelerator drone and position it on the forward-most units (blue circle) and put the Fireblade (green circle) and Shadowsun (purple circle) in between.

This means my front-most dudes have 36" range and rapid fire at 18", to intercept incoming enemies ASAP. The Fireblade gives his buff so RF fires an extra shot and Shadowsun can declare Kauyon twice to really make any shots count. If someone gets through, I can retreat if I didn't use kauyon and the rest pepper them full of holes.

I will have the rest of the army take out priority targets or stem the tide as it approaches, try to force them to come to me and not cut me to ribbons at ranged.

Also worried about the drop pod with storm bolter he's obviously planning to dump up my ass. Either a crusader squad or assault squad with a chaplain or a dreadnought.

>>53729543
just note, that since drones are separate units they can be singled out and shot. so he can focus down your pulse accelerator drone. he might waste shooting going after it but you'll still potentially lose it.

if you split your pathfinder squads you can take two of them. and then you can then hide one out of line of sight until you need it or just have them both covering your lines so you can spread out a bit.

personally i plan on keeping some specialty drones in a devilfish so that i can use them at will.

>>53729854
That's interesting and since I can split my shots as I feel like, I'm no longer controlled by making a rail rifle only group. I'll still get all my markerlights where I want them to go.

Would the killbox idea work you reckon?

>>53729543
Also keep in mind that the Pulse Accel needs to start in unit cohesion with the PF unit that takes them, which is going to limit your deployment options a bit.

>>53730095
That's alright, the drone moves 8" so it's not TOO bad. It's not the lynchpin of the tactic and I'd have some time to move it into place. I'm just worried it won't work at all.

That said, I have his current list and the only stuff higher than 24" range are a single twin heavy bolter and a single lascannon. He's full of flamers and meltaguns though, with plenty of power weapons and a few plasma guns.

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>>53729978
its essentially what i'm doing except less mobile.

3 devilfish
1 cadre fireblade
18 fire warriors
15 path finders
2 pulse accelerator drones.

just know that your own troops do block your own line of sight, so just keep that in mind if you have troops behind.

i'm planning to have a fast mobile strike force where the pathfinders can either spot for the rest of the army or join in on the fire if a target is fully marked or i don't think i need more markers, or if i can't mark anything else. after they drop and fire if too much focuses on them they can fall back to the fish and re deploy.

>>53730215
>>53730095
and in my group the drones would start in the devilfish so they wouldn't really have to worry about moving except when i choose to alpha strike or if they get shot up.

>>53730215
>>53730225
Ah, that's nice! It works well? What about against CC-heavy marines?

I'm a bit more hopeful now.

>>53730273
haven't tried it yet. But i'm hopeful that its mobility and its toughness when mounted will allow it to whether any cc, and then i can spring my trap on my own terms. that whole formation is only the infantry half of a mobile force that will either contain tanks, or battle suits.

>>53730320
>>53730273
also reading the fall back and embark rules, it seems like there's nothing stopping anyone from falling back into a transport. so if anything does break through, run into the transports and get the hell out of dodge.

>>53730273
also i messed up. The last part of the formation is that's how it looks after the infantry deploy, but since transports unload their infantry and then move, i could easily move the devilish forward to block charging lanes or line of sight so i can focus in on single targets etc.

If nothing else it looks cool. like a bunch of special forces teams dropping in by helicopter.

>>53730339
>>53730320
hm shite. My theme doesn't allow for transports since they're big and bulky (plus I honestly dislike the aesthetics of tau armour). That said I can fall back and shoot with my suits, so that ought to be good.

I'm considering buying some fortifications for myself, but nothing too ridiculous like the Tidewall. Have the Aegis lines gotten updated to 8th? I can excuse them as improvised barricades my warriors built from the forest.

>>53730446
>plus I honestly dislike the aesthetics of tau armour

i'm just the opposite, he other half of the list to bring it to 1500pts is 4 hammerheads, one of which is longstrike.

>>53730712
Hey bro, if you like it, I'm happy for you. I field lots of stealthsuits because I fucking love their look!

>>53730752
yeah i have 9 rail rifles, and i don't think i ever used more than 3 at a time. rail rifles just look great.

>>53730772
Aye, I love them too! Also just checked the fortification rules. Aegis is a flat terrain piece. shieldline's better but how can I justify an improvised barricade made of logs that can stop charges, move and bounce bullets back?

Bumping with a request that was ignored in the general.

I'm torn between Shieldlines or Aegis lines for my infantry Tau. My theme is stealthy forest-based Kauyon so was thinking of making improvised log barricades to represent them. But I face a lot of CC armies.

Aegis: Gives me cover and is thematic but that's it. Enemy can go around it and still kick my soft blue ass.

Shieldline: Acts as a transport so I have a T6 10W CC protector I can shoot out of and sometimes inflict mortal wounds from reflected shots but makes no thematic sense for my army. Who ever heard of log barricades bouncing bullets back and moving?

>>53732351
Take the Shieldline and paint it in a way that fits with your theme?

>>53732351

forcefields on the logs

>>53732408
yeah but I'm just trying to wrap my head around how I could model it. A moving, log barrier that bounces bullets back doesn't seem sensical. I'm autistic on it. I want to find a good reason.

>>53732351
aegis if you just want a log barricade.

if you want more tactical looking instead of a shield line you should take a drone port and then cover it with one of those camo nets sort of like a fox hole.

>>53732482
I generally just want protection from getting my shit pushed in by a few dozen angry dudes with knives as big as my torso, so technically the shieldline is perfect.
>>53732482
This is a good idea, I'm just not fond of the droneport. I could perhaps make the shieldline like a trench and refuse to move it?

>>53732472
May I ask why you're restricting yourself to log structures? You're still using pulse-weaponry and such (unless you're doing LOTS of conversions); couldn't you take a Shieldline and paint it camo with a green force-field?

>>53732574
that would work too, i like anons idea of putting shield generators on the the logs either embedded or nearby

personally my tau also rock a dark forest camoflage so i get why you want to go for that aesthetic.

>>53732613
Fluff-wise my Sept is essentially an almost-planet-wide forest/jungle, the Fire Warriors have learned extensive skills from the Kroot about tracking, improvisation, foraging and the like. So just trying to play on my theme, that barricades are built on the spot whenever good ground for a Kauyon maneuver is identified. The actual shieldline would be a very large and clumsy structure to move in the forests. This is also why I field no vehicles and plenty of foot infantry and stealthsuits.
>>53732625
Sweet, I'm happy you do. Just need to find a nice setup that works. 8th crunched my 2K army by a few hundred points so this would also be a cheaper way to bulk up my points and increase my effectiveness.

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>>53732809
yeah i have a jungle tiger stripe camo pattern on my vehicles and suits.

>>53732809
With that being your fluff, it does seem that the Shield Line wouldn't fit at all due to the logistics of maneuvering them through dense forest. I'd go Aegis.

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>>53732904
Yeah exactly, but then again, that's for the actual model used. I'm considering the suggestion a few posts above. A log trench of sorts that I wouldn't move and I have like 4 of those stealth generator parts you get in the stealthsuit box. Could hook some up. They look man-portable, so could excuse those for the bounce effect.
>>53732853
That looks awesome. I have my pathfinders with camo in a similar fashion, led by Darkstrider. Made a mossy ruined wall for his base and everything, ridiculously fun to paint.

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>>53732998
I'm in the process of painting him, but this will be my cadre fireblade.

the tiger stripe is repeated on any crisis suits, while infantry only get a plain olive drab and khaki gear. And trust me when i say, when he's painted the green stuff will look much better.

>>53733069
Ayy that looks badass. Why does he wear the mask?

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My friend just gave me a stellar idea for the shieldlines that I'm still mulling over. Basically man-portable posts that you stick in the ground in an array to form a literal shield-wall. he even mocked up something for the posts in 3D design.

I'm now thinking about how I can excuse it having toughness and wounds and "why can't I just move around it?"

Thoughts?

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>>53733956

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>>53733956
>>53733979
ah thats cool, reminds me of japanese infantry using man portable mantlets to set up defenses and a firing line.

bonus points if you represent their mobility by either having a drone or a fire warrior carry one of them

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>>53734372
That's fantastic, I like it even more now, especially since Tau take asian influence. This is another mockup my friend did (whose now browsing the thread)

>>53733956
You could combine those alongside a sort if wooden pallisade with spikes forward. A rudimentary barrier to prevent people from just walking past, and the discs themselves to offer real protection

>>53734525
That's a great idea actually. I have to bear in mind not to make it too large though as to not interfere with the charging rules themselves.

The more I think about it, the more I like it, now I just have to figure out a way to build these enmasse. I might need 3. Does anyone have the measurements for the proper Shieldline piece, please? It would be extremely helpful as I've never seen one in real life.

>>53733956
>>53733979
>>53734372
>>53734434
I'd just like to say that this is awesome.

>>53734434
in the formation, you'd have a gunner, a spearman and a guy who'd carry the palisade with him forward. so i like the idea of it being tau portable barrier, even fluff it that the bounced back shots are a skill of the fire warrior carrying the shield, being careful to angle the shield waves so as to bounce the shot back.

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>>53734843
He said thank you very much!
>>53734861
Yeah, I'm quite keen on the idea. Here's a final mock-up he did. The bottom part would be driven into the ground. He even coloured it as my Sept, the sweetheart~

>tfw my friend literally created a more interesting Shieldline concept in an hour while GW takes years.

I really hope they do something to make it worth taking Septs other than T'au and Vior'la. It really hurts not being able to take all those fancy special characters. It's also silly that 8e has taken the stance that you aren't allowed to use counts-as characters in custom subfactions.

What if I want a Kauyon-master in my Bork'an Sept force?

>>53735970
It's going to be frustrating when they make a Sept perfect for vehicle heavy armies, and then make it one other than T'au so you cant have Longstrike

>>53736147
Ooch, that would really hurt. I hope that the benefits they give are less archetype-specific.

>>53735970
>>53736147
since they share tau empire you could cross your characters like that easily couldn't you?

>>53737668
Not quite. While you could include both in the force, Longstrike's ability to make other Hammerheads more accurate only works on ones from his own Sept.

>>53737668
>>53737877
A lot of characters have stuff like that, that only buff targets from the same Sept. So while you could still legally take them, they'd be less effective.

>>53738033
Oddly enough, I think it's only him, Darkstrider, and Farsight. Shadowsun and the named Ethereals can affect any Tau unit regardless of Sept.

Farsight at least makes some sense why non-enclaves models wouldn't be as receptive to him

>>53738240
Vanilla Commanders only buff stuff from their own Sept, so if you set them up with your main Sept, they wouldn't help named characters.

Not a big deal, but another thing to consider.

>>53737877
>>53738033
>>53738240
>>53738507

will be exciting to see what the codex has in store

So are Crisis suits as bad as people are saying? Because from what I've seen only missile suits are less viable.

>>53738855
The issue is the increased costs across the board, though they did get a few nice things like being tougher, being able to fire three weapons, and 7e Target Lock is a universal rule for everyone now so it doesn't take a slot. Check out the damage and cost efficiency calcs in the OP for different weapons and setups.

Right now I'm planning out lists for a mechanized Tau force. I had some ideas for fun things to try with Devilfish, but I wanted a second opinion.

The first idea was to go for an all-out drone carrier. Stick 8 Gun drones and 4 marker drones inside one, carry them where they need to go, deploy them and the 2 on the hull as needed. I might swap some of those out with Heavy Gun drones if they're good, or Technical drones depending on what they do.

The second idea is to have a small pathfinder team with a Recon drone inside one, and fill the rest of the space with Marker drones. Have the pathfinders and marker drones pile out, and then use the Recon-carrying Devilfish itself as a gunship to root out hordes from cover.

The rest of the list would mainly be Longstrike and a few hammerheads, mostly railguns. I might throw in a Skyray but they seem mediocre.

>>53738855
they serve a role of being a tough while being able too shoot over the heads of the infantry and protect then from assault.

while the commanders can shoot better. the crisis suit team can bring more guns which matter more for overwatch since bs means shit in overwatch.

twin plasma and the override, or twin plasma and flamers.

>>53739592
I was personally thinking of a devilifish with two pathfinder teams both with pulse accelerator drones.

the path finder teams can drop out together or one at a time to mark things, mean while the devilfish can keep the pulse accelerator drones safe until i need them with my infantry core and i get two of them either two different turns or a wider area of effect and the enemy has to take both of them out.

>>53739592
that said i really like the drone carrier idea. especially marker drones, keep em safe for when they're needed. since i think drones being used to take wounds or focused down is going to happen a lot. and even just one marker light hit can be such a force multiplier.

>>53739592
also don't throw in a skyray if you take long strike, just take the hammerhead. skyrays don't benefit from longstrikes ability so your better off with more guns. especially if you have such a big marker team.

>>53738855

Price hike and all that
Commander spam is far superior

>>53740766
>>53740778
Hmm...using them to keep those key drones safe was something I hadn't really considered, though since I don't plan on having many Fire warriors or infantry in general, I don't think it'll help me. That said, I may go for it more as a way to help portion out my markerlights, since a list with all vehicles and drones can't take advantage of the drone's ability to block shots.

>>53740793
Yeah. Main reason I was considering it was because I'd have the bitz anyway from the hammerhead boxes

>>53740809
yeah, i have 4 HH chasis, but i can turn two of them into skyrays if i wanted to. i do like the look of the skyray. its just missing everything that made it worth taking.


I even have those skyrays magnetized so i can take of their missiles as a counter for how many missiles they have left. but god damn it. skyrays are always shit.

ugh FW leaks please
I wanna know if the Riptide variants will also be bad or not

>>53740840
Yeah. I was hopeful earlier that they'd be nice as an anti-air artillery piece since tanks seemed better in general, but then the rules leaked and they're lackluster all around.

>>53740971
they just needed either a velocity tracker or a target lock.

either/or

So first I realized my Darkstrider is now borderline useless (at least against marines, but I face them most of the time) but also my Fireblade cannot buff units in a shieldline due to it being embarked on a transport. After I spent a decent amount of time converting custom minis for them too, great. I either pick a RF buff or have my dudes cut to ribbons.

>>53741709
Also can't declare Kauyon with my Shadowsun neither for them, which also cripples her efficiency too.

>>53741709
>>53741757
Well, outside of going for an Aegis defense line instead, I'm not sure what to tell you

>>53741777
Trips of Truth! Well, I guess that was a good exercise in creativity nonetheless. But perhaps I can still make this work in a way. Do the shieldlines block line of sight for both enemy and me if I'm not embarked? If yes, perhaps i can field some and just not embark upon them unless shit hits the fan. I can position them in a way that forces the enemy into RF range, a bottleneck.

>>53740894
riptide isn't bad it's just not undercosted and overpowered anymore you faggot

>>53741965
Yeah, now its just overcosted and underpowered you prancing lala homoman.

>>53694997
I have an idea, why not plug a drone into a suit?

Surely, me Sept brothers, a fully mechanized mech would be a force on the battlefield.

>>53741990

No u

it's just pretty average now

If I deep strike crisis suits/commanders from a manta and that suit/unit has bought drones, do the drones deep strike as well?

>>53741993

Like that commander broadside, part of The Eight, which is basically the computerized conscience of a dead guy put inside a battlesuit?

>>53742248

Yes, They are set up in coherency when the parent unit is set up. Deep Strike is a set-up.

>>53742273
And when utilising a homing beacon I can manta strike within 9"?

So with sergeants being free this edition, are fire warrior shas'uis with markerlights mandatory as for 3 points a bs4+ markerlight is always worth?

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Ok, updated killbox plan. Bear with me.

Orange lines are Shieldlines manned by a 5-man Strike Team. Bottom red lines are 2 more 5-man Strike teams and the top one is a 7-man team. Purple is shadowsun, green is fireblade, grey is pulse accelerator drone (may not use it, but just thinking of it). Brown line is an Aegis line.

This enables me to get the maximum amount of shots for the HQ/Drone buffs while also maintaining the shieldlines as mobile defence to protect my flanks from attack or moving them in front of an attacker if they near my Aegis. This may block LoS for my units but it might be preferable to dying in droves.

Thoughts?

>>53742436
I would consider swapping the Fire warriors inside the shieldline for pathfinders, possibly 2 5 man teams. You could give each a pulse accelerator drone, and have one in reserve in case the first gets picked off.

The benefit there is that the pathfinders don't need the volley fire benefits as much, since they have markerlights, and they benefit more from being on the shieldline, since they have a lower armor save. They can then light things up with markerlights for the rest of the fire warriors to blast away at thanks to the buffs.

I would also suggest putting another layer of fire warriors or gun drones or something in a line behind the characters, so that they don't get picked off by a deep strike.

>>53742468
That's a very good point, I never considered my pathfinders. The only downside to that is that aside from these units, I have 2 6-man stealth teams, a ghostkeel and a lone commander. This kindof makes me turtle for the entire game, which is pretty boring and might even lose me the game when considering objectives. my opponent may just ignore me entirely.

>>53742522
Ok, did some changes. Turtling 4/5ths of my army is a bit of a messed up move so how about I run the pathfinders wherever I please but with a shieldline each. they find a good spot, hunker down and can move if it becomes necessary (otherwise they don't because heavy markerlights).

The Strike teams, shadowsun and the fireblade remain mobile but move as a big group in formation (like them Total War games). I honestly have no other choice so staying on the move to intercept incoming enemies is my best option.

>>53740894
Index Xenos won't be released until end of month or early July, and then we'll ahve to wait for a good soul to share it with the world.

>>53742398
yes

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>Xenos FW Index states "Remora SQUADRON"
>I built a single one from my Recon Drone I didn't use

It's gonna be 2 minimum isn't it?

>>53743347
Hardly. IIRC, it's already named like that and it's 1-5

>>53743422
Yeah but they've tweaked others already. Pathfinders MSU is 5 instead of 4, for example. The pack you buy is 2 remoras so I'm expecting 2 minimum, though I hope that's not the case.

>9 breachers with Darkstrider in a shieldline
>They keep moving, doing their thing
>Shieldline gets assaulted in opponent's turn
>Disembark, be within 5"
>18 shots wounding on 2s
>Embark again, repeat

Would this work you reckon? I'm thinking 300 Spartans style, with a phalanx protecting you then it splits apart to released dudes honking you through the chest with a spear in the blink of an eye.

Bam

>>53743130
Shame innit

>>53738855
There was some discussion about the benefits on big suit teams. They take lots of points which means you have few units, which then helps you to get 1st turn as it is based on who finishes deployment first. So you get semi-guaranteed first turn with big units that benefit from the alpha strike.

>>53748858
Huh, I hadn't thought about it that way. Still an overall nerf from the increased cost, I think, but it stings a bit less. Also a point in favor of Crisis over Commanders.

>>53694997
Reading through the thread it all seems interesting. How would I get into this?

>>53755526
The main 40k thread >>53751603 has a download link for leaked rules. Everybody is in the process of transitioning to 8e, which officially launches in a week, though there's already leaks of all the rules. I'd recommend reading rules, and if you're convinced you want to play T'au, pick up a Start Collecting! box, as it's a fantastic value and a great starting point.

You'll also want to find some people to play with. Either get some friends to get into it with you, or find a friendly local gaming store with table space.

FW has stuff to share on Mondays right?