8e CHAOS THREAD

Any estimates on when will FW stuff leak? I want my independant characters, dammut!

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(repost from old thread)
Newfag here. I'm thinking of getting into 40k with the new edition. Can I now mix Khorne Chaos demons freely with Khorne CSM and Cultists and stuff and still got the Battle Forged Army Bonus, since they all belong to the same faction (Chaos)?

I'm confused about the ruling of Battle Forged Armies. As far as I understand it, as long as my units have the Chaos Faction keyword they can all be taken for a battleforged army detachment?

>>53649191
>Helbrutes
Yes
>Heldrakes
FUCK YES. Move up to 30", set some squad on fire, assault something, disengage and burn more stuff. Turn 1 charge all day.

>>53649270
Near as I can tell, it looks like it.
Mind you fielding a Patrol Detachment with a Herald of Khorne and 2 troops of CSM, those CSM will not receive the Herald's bubble buff for being near him.

>>53649270
You can mix anything within one detachment as long it shares one faction keyword. In this case they all share Chaos keyword.
There is only a restriction for Death Guard and Thousand Sons legions and even they can take other stuff in a separate detachment I think.

>>53649270
You're good, go nuts

>>53649258
CSM are always scary bro. Doesn't matter what kind of weird tricks the slaves of the false emperor put out, Chaos will ALWAYS reign supreme!

>>53649536
sweet mother. so Nurgle and Khorne stuff can be fielded together because they share the Chaos keyword?

>>53649365
Even those two you can still mix and match. Chaos faction still works for detachments. Its just the units not in their list cannot gain the death guard/thousand sons legion keyword. So any buffs or whatever dont work

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>>53649600
Yes, but 8th edition is all about fielding stuff that would benefit from buffs provided by your HQ characters. That is why mixing stuff isn't that profitable.

>>53649626
Unless your HQ is Abbadon the Despoiler, in which case YOUR ENEMIES WILL FEEL THE WRATH OF CHAOS

>>53649600
You could do that in 7e as well.
The really odd thing is that daemons don't have hatred for each other in Mirror Matches any more.

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>>53649657
Even he requires you to join his legion to receive his blessings, but yes. I am going to include him in all my lists in 8th.

Hellbrutes seem cool.

Best variation IMO is twin lascannon and power scourge

>>53649620
>>53649600
>>53649365
>>53649364
>>53649270
Just to add to these answers, it's been confirmed that they will be adding more specific bonuses, such as more specific strategems, for fielding an army sharing a more specific key word.
For instance, a Khorne army will have more specific bonuses than a Chaos army, and a World Eaters army will have more specific bonuses than a Khorne army.

>>53649707
fuck yeah he's a god damn monster

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>>53649729
>god specific buffs and stratagems for fielding a daemonkin list dedicated to one god
I need dis

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When are we getting updated Chaos Undivided sculpts? They keep pushing the CSM starter bundle and I do wanna play CSM but I don't want to buy them and then a month later find out they are all manlets now

>>53649819
>I don't want to buy them and then a month later find out they are all manlets now
That's exactly where I'm at with Khorne Berzerkers.
The answer is no one knows when we're getting updated kits.

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>>53649729
Lets hope GW doesn't take too long releasing with all these nice bonuses.

>>53649819
I expect most of the current models to get updated along with death guard releases or when CSM codex is out.

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>>53649819
Just git gud at converting Fantasy Chaos warriors

This question is not really specific to 8e but I'm going to ask anyway: I want to start Word Bearers in the new edition, but while I love daemon engines I don't actually like daemons at all. I do, however, love Word Bearers fluff and their FW models.

Is there any fluff reason why "my dudes are a WB cult who focus solely on daemon engines as holy physical manifestations of chaos, and leave the summoning to the other parts of the legion" wouldn't work?

>>53649819
Some anons have been saying its going to be years, but like you i refuse to buy manlets when there is such a major switch on the cards.

Ill convert imperial primaris themselves if i have to.. at least when the switch&swap sprues are out.

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Is the Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage worth it? He and the two others are 340.

>>53649729

It just sucks because ive been playing death guard since 5th edition back when we didnt really have anything. I have a squad of chaos termies and a squad of oblits converted with the forgeworld death guard terminator upgrades and now neither model is in the list.

I can still field them but they used to have at least +1 toughness and then when traitor legions came out they gained fnp from the death guard rules. Now they are just standard dudes basically. Ill still field them as i play with my bros and we are pretty casual, but im perplexed as to why you cant make terminator squads death guard, as they have two seperate unique termies in 30k.

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>>53649278
Crash course me on heldrakes again, what does "Fly" actually do?

>>53649970
You'll be among the first to receive an updated codex. I'll eat my socks if Death Guard Terminators aren't in there.

>>53649970
DG is getting their own special terminator squad similar to TS Scarab Occult. It was shown in that preview video they did. Just have to wait for your DG codex so the army is fleshed out.

>>53649987
"Fly" allows you to disengage from combat and still fire. Normally you can't shoot or assault after disengaging.

>>53649912
Word bearers thing is cultists too no? You could also go down a possessed/spawn route to represent WB manifestations of daemons.

>>53649947
Am I reading that right, that it gets worse the less wounds it has?

>>53650073
Yes, that's a common mechanic for vehicles and big monsters in the new edition.

>>53650084
Oh...I guess it makes sense.
Figured that with a name like "Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage" that it would have some kind of upside to taking wounds, like a berserker fury or whatever.
Or is that just the full title for the Bloodthirster now?
Do the other daemons have full names?

>>53649270
To add to this question, I've been out of the loop for a couple editions. I've got some guard and scions and want to get back into it but I've got a friend who gave me an unbuilt squad of Death Korps Grenadiers. I could just run them as scions but would it be possible to use the fw for Krieg Grenadiers? Like could I just ally the one squad of Grenadiers to my guardsmen/scion army?

>>53649947
I think the thirster of fury is the best of the three generally, but it seems like there's a lot of reason to tailor your choice specifically to what you're up against.

Insensate rage is better against really heavy armor and t7+ so if you think you need those wound rolls to stick, he's your man.

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>>53650084
Anything with 10 wounds or above will degrade, but there are some exceptions like picrelated.

>>53650071

I was intending to run cultists and possessed (counts as, with Gal Vorbak), alongside helbrutes (counts as, with the FW possessed dreadnought), and then maulerfiends and helturkeys. Basically mechanized IG with SM support, but in Chaos form.

Thanks for the spawn idea anon, totally forgot those even exist

>>53650121
>>53650147

Skarbrand also gains attacks as he loses wounds. He's probably a character worth reviewing the utility of at his hefty price tag of 380 points, but his no morale/no fall back/+1 A aura might also be one of the mechanics worth building an army around.

>>53650181
Yes, Skarbrand looks to be very strong, but his 8" movement is a bit low. Might be a problem getting him into melee.

I didn't get a chance to judge for myself: how are Raptors and Warp Talons?

>>53650346
>drop down from orbit
>charge 9 inches
>turn 1

Kharn's a beast now. You only need to watch out for counter charges with him now.

Still don't understand why he lost Blessing of the Bloodgod tho...

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>>53650346
They are both very good, but Raptors aren't a straight combat unit like Warp Talons. They will probably be best used flying around and picking off wounded units and armed with flamers or plasma.

I want to start collecting chaos marines maybe with some daemons to go with em, but i cant fucking decide when theyre all so badass. Are there any legions that wouldnt use daemons or does anything go on the tabletop?

i have read some hh books so that makes me lean towards thousand sons a bit.

How much pain and suffering is Slaanesh and the Children of the Emperor bringing in 8th edition?

>>53650601
>Slaanesh
>he doesn't know!

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>>53650601
QUITE A BIT MY NOISE BRO

Seriously Noise Marines are fucking awesome, their special ability is called Music of the Apocalypse. Here, see pic related for yourself and STAND IN AWE OF THE POWER OF CHAOS

>>53650568
All legions use daemons to some extent, either directly summoned or bound in something.
Read the 8th rulebook and indexes once they are released or leaked ones if you haven't. Major part of this game is knowing the rules so you can start there.

>>53650363
>>53650419
So if I were to have an unopened boxed of them what should I assemble them as?

>>53650568
You don't have to use daemons if you don't want to bring them, you can put whatever you like in your army. You can make a whole army out of Chaos Space Marines, Cultists and Vehicles and avoid any unit with the Daemon keyword if you want.

>>53650725
I kinda want to make a list like this now. Chaos Lords, Chaos Space Marines, Chosen, Chaos Terminators, Rhinos, Predators, Chaos Raptors, Chaos Bikers, Havocs, and of course the big daddy Chaos Land Raider. Plenty of awesome choices to make an awesome Chaos Space Marines army.

>>53650695
I would recommend figuring out what the rest of your army is or would be doing first. Both Raptors and Warp talons are specialist units and not every army would even want to take them.
If you absolutely must do it now, then arm raptors with either plasma or flamers.

>>53650772
Right now, your only real choice would be Black Legion, but when the actual Codex CSM is released it will change.

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>Patrol Detachment
>small points game
>bring a Chaos Lord on a Steed of Slaanesh
>give him 2 CSM troops
>discard boltguns to acquire chainswords
>get Icon of Excess in both squads if fighting Imperium
>if fighting Xenos or fellow Chaos then just spend it on better melee weapons for champions and Lord
>take Herald of Slaanesh on a Steed as second HQ
>bring a single squad of Warp Talons
>pray you go first
>turn 1; Advance everything at the enemy
>Herald and Lord should be damn close to enemy at this point, right up in your opponents face
>Warpflame Strike Warp Talons near your Herald and Lord
>if fighting Imperium your Warp Talons should have an Icon of Excess
>Herald then attempts to Manifest Symphony of Pain against nearest biggest squad with the best dakka
>Warp Talons charge
>Herald charges
>Lord charges
>Warp Talons are daemons of Slaanesh and so benefit from Herald's buff making their Lightning Claw attacks Str 5
>Chaos Lord allows them to reroll failed to hit rolls of one
>assuming RAW Warp Talons Lightning Claws grant +2 attacks you have 16 str5 ap-2 d1 attacks made at 3+ to hit
>assuming this was just a typo and they only grant +1 attack you still have 11 str5 ap-2 d1 attacks made at 3+ to hit
>plus the two HQ
>this is of course before any Overwatch happens
>also before Death to the False Emperor if fighting Imperium
>Warp Talons are still Daemons though
>anything that negates armor saves still has to deal with invul
>if Symphony of Pain successfully manifested opponents are at -1 to hit
>odds are at least 3 models are getting into melee from Warp Talon unit
>followed by two HQ
>Chaos Lord should be armed with either dual chainswords to make room for Icons of Excess or splurged out on Lightning Claws for facing Xenos or fellow Chaos
>either way, shit load of attacks for everyone
Slaanesh gets lots of attacks and it makes me hard

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>>53650669
HEAR THIS DIRGE AND DESPAIR

>>53649906
I can't decide if these look cool or derpy

>>53650861
https://youtu.be/SRwrg0db_zY?t=82

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>>53650906
I think they look good when someone tries real hard. Most google image results have funny looking angles on their rifles just because of how the arms sit.

>>53650669
How do cover modifiers even work? If there's a 2+ unit in cover, does it technically have a 1+ as far as other modifiers are concerned, but still fails on rolls of 1?

fuck armor modifiers I'd rather bring NOISE

>>53651111
Cover values and AP values now work similarly.

Cover adds +1 to the saves of models in cover, so in other words you roll your save and add +1 to the result if you are in cover.

Weapons with an AP value (like a Lascannon with AP -3) work the same way but backwards. You roll your save and subtract the weapons AP value from your roll. So in other words you'd roll to save and subtract -3 from your roll if it was a lascannon shot you were saving against.

Yes, both can still apply. So if you are a 2+ unit in cover you still auto fail on a roll of 1, but if you get hit with a weapon with an AP value the cover will benefit you. So if your terminators are in +1 cover and then get hit with a lascannon, you roll and then subtract 3 from the result for the lascannon and then add 1 for the cover.

Super easy honestly.

But yeah, not giving any fucks about cover is fucking awesome.

>>53651019
I-is that chaos Johnny up in the left corner there?

>>53650849
>assuming RAW Warp Talons Lightning Claws grant +2 attacks you have 16 str5 ap-2 d1 attacks made at 3+ to hit
>assuming this was just a typo and they only grant +1 attack you still have 11 str5 ap-2 d1 attacks made at 3+ to hit

BY THE POWER OF CHAOS HOW FUCKING HARD IS THIS FOR YOU IDIOTS TO UNDERSTAND

IT'S WORDED THE EXACT SAME WAY AS POWER SCOURGE AND CHAINSWORD

READ AND UNDERSTAND THE RULES YOU DUMMY

>>53649869
>Khorne Berzerkers
I'm picking up some primaris and AOS khornates for that very reason. I already a few units worth of berserkers, but I need more.

>>53651613
It's not that complicated, I don't know who is spreading the meme that the rule is confusing

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Fulgrim is next after mortarion.
He was referenced in 2 new books now.

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>>53653213
Next daemon primarch at least, they might do lion or russ first sadly

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>>53653318
bout time

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>>53651315
LITTLE JOHNY 2!?

I feel like I maybe power gaming now but I bought the models because I liked them. Goddamn it termies why you got to be so good?

I'm thinking of a list like

10 seekers
30 demonettes
1 herald of boobs
20 CSM (2 heavy bolters, 2 missle launchers, 2 plasmaguns)
10 Termies
1 CSM lord in termie armour
1 CSM lord
3 Hellbrutes (willing to convert models)
Defiler

What do you guys think would make a functional list at 1k and 1.5k points? I was thinking of doing a theme force where Night lords are trying to cleanse a planet of degeneracy, but just as they arrive the demons start to manifest. NLs are equipped in termie armour and using dreads as they expect a heavy demon presents and want to be prepared for it. It's a neat narrative theme I think.

But yea, what sort of list would function well at 1k points? I'm not looking for competitive just gaming club night power level

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>>53654767
A little idea on Hellbrutes. I've got a whole bunch of these, with swappable arms. I think bodies come from Black Reach dreds. And you can even attach a hellturkey three prong claws right onto the standard dred ccw with no glue or anything needed.

>>53649712
But that is expensive, Im gonna experiment with hellbrute and other weapons.
Want to test Plasma cannon first since it has 2D for primaris, but d3 hits and mortal wound on 1s dont sound that good, dose lord help him with 1s? or its for infantry only?

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I'm kinda fresh on warhammer 40k and i got a question.
Will a Nurgle army satisfy my craving for autistic attrition strategies?

>>53650346
Raptors arent bad, can take MoK for re roll of charge, or MoN for aditional -1Ld.
Tanlons dont get Overwatched, but w8 for FAQ till we see if they have 3A or 2A due to wording issiue.
Raptors are more of "vulture" type unit.
Talons are more up in face.

>>53651613
>IT'S WORDED THE EXACT SAME WAY AS POWER SCOURGE AND CHAINSWORD
You only proven how blind and stupid you are.
Talons entry is in single form.
Wargear entry is plural.
Wait for FAQ and tuf some dick in your ass and mouth faggot until than.

Recomendations for 3rd party demonetes? Newish GW are just plain ugly, old and cool are metal and expensive.

>>53655383
Kings of war have some demonette style models.

you would be better off asking in the alt minis general, they're experts on this shit.

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>>53650601
>>53650669
>>53650861
>Forgeworld aren't releasing Sonic Dreadnought rules in the coming Index

>>53655027
Any MODEL may re-roll 1's, so go nuts.

>>53655000
>>53655000
at first i hated the legs but they've really grown on me

why is the sarcophagus a missile pod though? seems like it would steam the vegetable inside

Can I play Mark of Slaanesh Chaos Marines now or do they still suck?

I have modelled alot of my dudes with Special weapons + bolt pistol and sword. Are they still an ingame combination you can use?

Lastly I have a babe with an axe I used as combat familiar. Can I still use her?

>>53656418
>Women in a marine army
You disgust me. Go back to Tumblr.

Define special weapons

>>53656588

Plasmaguns, Meltas and shit.

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These are CSM Terminator/Helbrute and SM Dreadnought autocannon profiles. Why the fuck is this a thing?

>>53657898
>33 point gun not the same as 18 point gun
>more at eleven

>>53657898
Same reason GSC vanquishers have +1 strength over the guard version

>>53651613
You would be right, they all state whenever you attack with that weapon gain +1 attack, except Lightning Claws state when you dual wield gain +1 attack so they're already different.
Then Warp Talons have their own ruling for Lightning claws that states whenever the model attacks, it makes an additional attack with that weapon, not specifying you need to dedicate attacks to the Lightning Claws to gain the additional attacks; so by RAW you get 2 extra attacks for dual wielding the Lightning Claws unless this was just a fuck up on GW part.
Same goes for Chainswords, except you do need to dedicate attacks to each Chainsword for extra attacks, and the Power Scourge has the same wording as the Warp Talons entry for Lightning Claws, meaning a Helbrute with a Helbrute Fist and a Power Scourge could make 4 attacks with the Helbrute Fist and still get the 3 attacks with the Power Scourge.
Until this gets FAQ'd as a mistake that's how it reads as RAW.

>>53655383
If you don't mind buying two GW kits for every 10 Daemonettes you can kitbash Witch Aelves from fantasy, use the Witch Aelves bodies and heads, attack daemonette claws and feet, apply greenstuff as required.
It's what I've been doing for my daemonette army, except I didn't think to cut off the feet yet so my Daemonettes all have Witch Aelves feet, only Daemonette thing on them is claws now that I think about it...

>>53649912
Yes.
I'd say that's entirely open to you. WB have lots of different sects and different methods of worship- they're really open ended, like a slannesh girl on Saturday morning.
Also your idea is rad, with lots of conversion potential- daemon engines as living idols/altars

>>53656053
That's just some conversion photo I found on the web, mine don't have pods and also have different weapons.

Are non-cult armies viable again yet?

I want to field my renegades once more.

I've recently started playing, and need some help improving my list. Players I've encountered run Forgeworld Eldar, Necrons, IG, Tyranids, and Tau.

Here's what I have so far:

1 Chaos Terminator Lord
-Lighting Claw, Combi-Plas

10 Terminators
-1 with Power Axe + Combi-Plas
-1 with Power Axe + Combi-Flamer
-2 with Power Sword + Combi-Bolt
-2 with Lightning Claw + Combi-Bolt
-2 with Power Mace + Reaper Autocannon
-Champion with Chainfist + Combi-Plas
-Champion with Lightning Claw + Combi-Flamer

10 Rubric Marines
-6 with Inferno Boltgun
-2 with Warpflame Pistol
-1 with Soulreaper
-Aspiring Sorcerer with Force Staff + Warpflame Pistol

10 Tzaangors
-10 with Tzaangor blades

3 Exalted Sorcerer

1 Ahriman

>>53660276
Note that this isn't all one list, before I got the Terminators, I just ran Ahriman, the Sorcerers, the Rubricae, and the Tzaangors. I'm not sure what the best options would be. People here play at 700pts, 1500pts, and 2000pts.

>>53655653
Hey - we pretty much KNOW we're getting a Slaanesh release, and I wouldn't be surprised if we got a Plastic sonic dread.

Just let me lie to myself anon

>>53649947
where are you guys finding the points cost?
also, where can I find the IG leaks? mega don't work for me.

>>53650363

>less then 50% chance of making the charge,will probably eat the flamer overwatch for nothing

>>53650601

Completely mediocre.

So more or less in a similar spot to before, for better or for worse.

How would I go about starting a Daemons army? I really like the Khorne models so I was thinking of picking up a Bloodthirster and 2 SC: Khorne Daemon kits. Are there any units I should be weary of or that would suck completely? I've been told to run a good amount of flamers as well.

Also, how do Daemons typically play? I've heard it's more of a horde army, but it can be played like an elite army as well depending on what you bring. I just think it'd be cool to have an army that you can stick in 40k, 30k, or AoS

>>53662125
Warp talons deep strike prevents them from being overwatched that turn though

How good are Forgefiends and Defilers this edition?

>>53662472
Here's how you play daemons: literally every unit is good, go wild.

But more seriously: A thirster isn't a bad place to start. You really can't go wrong with khorne daemons right now. The worst unit is a low cost, high efficacy weapons platform and maybe skarbrand because he's 380 points. If you're going to build a horde army make sure to throw some heralds in there because character bonuses are essential to infantry lists, skulltaker's aura is beyond incredible too. The +1 to hit rolls means your hellblades are doing 2 damage a pop on a 5+ to wound

>>53662573
With only 4+s to hit they're both limited by the fact that their weapons are heavy, severely limiting their ability to both output damage while remaining mobile. The defiler can take the power scourge to make its close combat a little less forgettable, but you have to sacrifice the best weapon on it that overcomes its mobility limitation: the twin heavy flamer.

That being said, they're both durable and regenerate wounds with an invuln that's nothing to sniff at. Good prescience targets when static. Ectoplasma cannons also don't harm the forgefiend on 1s so it makes for a very formidable anti-armor loadout.

>>53662618
How would an elite army of daemons play out? A lot of cavalry type units and heavy support? I like the look of Bloodcrushers and apparently they're no too bad anymore with a 4+ save and T5, so I was thinking of running those alongside some plague drones and like 20 flesh hounds.

>>53658509
No, that is not a special rule for warp talons. Lightning claws always have that rule.

How are our Predators fairing now? I was thinking of loading one up with four lascannons and a havoc launcher for some long-range heavy fire support. My Berserkers have had no trouble chewing through infantry hoards but I want something to deal with tanks besides my Terminators.

>>53663047
Vehicles are super tough in 8th edition, way tougher than they ever felt to me before other than on an insane series of fluke rolls.

Because of that, armies definitely need good anti-tank options and quad lascannon (especially since twin counts as two now instead of just one with reroll) fits the bill.

>>53662739
So triple ectoplasm is the way to run forgefiends?

I have heard battlecannon is terrible now, is that why the defiler isn't very good?

If you take nurgle aligned daemon machines you can heal them with nurgle associated powers and they get the benefit of nurgle daemon auras.

Epidemius + 2-3 nurgle heldrakes could very easily generate enough tally count in the first turn to turn your entire nurgle daemon army into monsters from the jump

>>53663578
battlecannon is fine, ectoplasma is okay imo, hades is pretty good

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>>53658949
>Also your idea is rad, with lots of conversion potential- daemon engines as living idols/altars

Thanks, anon. That's pretty much what I was thinking. I typed up some fluff quickly in case anyone actually feels like reading it.

>The Truth Incarnate are a divergent sect of the Word Bearers heretics, distinguished from their fellow Legionaires by their widespread and fanatical use of daemon engines. The Incarnate view the convergence of material and immaterial as the highest form of worship, bringing the Primordial Truth into the physical universe in the most direct and permanent manner possible. Thus, they see the merger of daemon and machine as an immeasurably holy manifestation of Chaos, and the warband's leading council always consists of an equal number of Warpsmiths and Dark Apostles.
>While the Incarnate do not scorn the Neverborn, and consider possession to be a sacred rite and most esteemed honour, over the long millenia their successive leader-preachers have nonetheless come to focus more and more on the esoteric nature of daemonic machinery. Heldrakes, Mauler- and Forgefiends fill their ranks; many of their brethren have become daemonhosts or devolved into venerated Spawn, and their attendant cultists spend every waking moment stoking their hellish forges' fires as they endure their endless crusade for the Truth.

>>53663578
If you're planning on shooting at good armor saves yes, but it isn't necessarily /the/ way to equip it. Battlecannon has a much different usage and on all the platforms that can use it you're usually hitting on a 4+. With some luck and chaos' access to prescience + auras that allow rerolls of 1, you can definitely make the defiler a worthwhile unit but you're still overcoming its native deficiencies and the fact that it suffers movement penalties on almost all its guns.

So are chosen finally worth taking outside of alpha legion or am I better suited spamming terminators

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what's piquing your interest about 8E Slaanesh lads?

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WHY DOES KAIROS FATEWEAVER HAVE MELEE ATTACKS NOW, HIS WHOLE SHTICK IS ABOUT SUCKING ASS IN COMBAT BECAUSE HE CAN'T SEE THE PRESENT.
0/10 edition, burning all my figurines and firebombing local GW

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If anyone interested there was a good battle report between playtesters of 8th edition posted today. It was CSM vs Orks and it was interesting to see the list and new tactics used by chaos. Can see the lists and other links there:
https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2017/06/06/tuesday-night-fight-orks-vs-chaos/

Was interesting to see experienced people use those armies and got me excited for CSM in 8th.

>>53665049
Noise Marines and Daemonettes both look pretty strong. There is also a good synergy between herald buffing slaanesh daemons and slaanesh marked daemon engines or princes.

>>53649906
those are ugly

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>>53665347
He was working out at the local gym after getting his ass kicked in melee so much. Mad. Gains.

Theres no way we're not getting some Nurgle Terminators soon, right?

How many raptors is too many? I have 2 boxes and my order of 20 MKIV asspacks just came in today.

>>53665049
Noise marines look sweet with Sonic blasters on the run as well as their ability to fire when they die.

I'm mixed on the fact that our Icon only works against Imperials. On the one hand, that's most of my playgroup anyway, but on the other hand, it sucks that it didn't just make it apply to all armies with a bonus against imperium or something

>>53665601
Probably will never need more than one unit of Raptors, but it would depend on your list.

>>53665572
They've already been teased in the Death Guard video.

>>53655086
The zombie things that come in the new starter set gain a new member every time they kill an enemy infantry, and the actual death guard toughness makes them hard to movie with simple anti infantry fire.

>>53666334

I don't know. Having 2 big squads in Deepstrike waiting to pounce on something in a surprise attack would be a lot of fun.

>>53655383
Raging heroes for more expensive metal/resin
Kings of War (mantic) for cheaper plastic

>>53666717
Sure, it would be fun, but it would also cost a lot of points, be vulnerable to overwatch and won't pack that much of a punch. They would also probably take heavy casualties on the backswing unless the unit they are assaulting is heavily damaged, which you would have trouble getting damaged without more stuff on the board since you heavily invested in raptors.

Basically what I'm saying is it would depend on what else is in the list and your overall strategy.

>>53666717
A Terminator deepstrike would pack more punch and be far more likely to live to see another turn.

>>53667230
Both are pretty good, but I think Raptors would be better for supporting a melee-focused army than Terminators. Raptors are just more vulnerable themselves so if you can weaken or prevent overwatch then they could do some serious damage.

>>53667230
Especially if you tag team it with a sorcerer with that movement power

>>53667959
Which you should always do

>>53668147
That movement power is too sweet not to take it. How do I combine it with berserkers? Go Black Legion?

>>53668229
Yep although you can use it without black legion using the heretic or chaos keyword.

Black legion will trigger less autism but

Are ordinary Chaos cultists still worth it?

>>53668429
Yea I think so. As I see it our troop rating is:

> poxwalkers
> zerkers
> cultists
> noise marines
> rubrics
> csm
> plague marines

>>53668508
So chaos Marines still suck?

>>53668552
it's more that everything else is so much better.

Havocs are also 13 points so they shit on CSM in everyway imo

Fallen are the new Chosen right? How good are they?
I'm on the phone currently so can't view the PDFs.

>>53668618
Fallen are shitter chosen that have locked in keywords.

Chosen are still a thing

>>53668552
They at least have the merit of being able to be troops while being able to take heavy and special weapons. Still that tier list is pretty accurate

>>53649255
How would anyone know that? Jesus. There really are stupid questions.

>>53650133
Chaos thread

>>53650262
Yup, can only get in to combat if you have 30" movement or better. Howling Banshees will never see combat either!

>>53662125
Except flamer range is 8".

>>53663578
This is what happens when you use forums instead of the actual rulebooks to learn the game.

>>53668508
Where would Tzaangors fit on your scale?

>>53668508
What's so good about poxwalkers?

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>>53650669
HOLD, THE, FUCKING, PHONE.

Death to the false emperor rule says when you roll a 6+ (5+ for slannesh) to hit IN THE FIGHT PHASE you get to make a extra attack with the same weapon, if a noise marine dies in close combat, there guns will get this rule will they not????

>>53669353
Seems like a reasonable assumption.

>>53669268
Ignore moral
Low cost
Can get 20 in a squad
Have Disgusting Resilience
Can get more zombies while in melee
Can tie units
Excellent bubble wrap since 8th ed is all about that 1/2nd turn assault
Can get +1 T and S

What makes them not good anon?

>>53669523
I meant more of a tactical use for them. Screen, yes, is a good idea. What else, camping objectives?

>>53669221
I haven't used them so I'm not as sure as the others.

On paper to me they read like a shitter version of poxwalkers. They cost more but have little to offer but invuls now are better then the FnP replacement.

If I had to place them...probably slot above rubrics

>>53669545
Yea pretty much.

Screen, camp objectives without aid, 9" deep strike denial (who cares if you keep them in the open?) and counter assault

>>53649191
I-is Slaanesh good now? Can I run daemonettes and Noisemarines withouit getting the floor wiped with them?

>>53669697
you can fire your heavy wepons in close combat as noise marrines, nuff fucking said

>>53665753
It should work against Eldar too. Or atleast Slaanesh demons should have an edge over Eldar

>>53655653
Good thing the helbrute chassis and the sonic weapons have separate points costs then

Not sure what to do with Tzaangors now that Thousand Sons can take Cultists. Cultists just seem like better (re:cheaper) chaff.

>>53665753
>>53665414
On the noise marine front do you guys go third party for the sonic weapons or convert, or use the finecast ones?

I was thinking about using FW kakophoni but I still gotta sort out a blast master and doom siren per squad.

How does Death to the False Emperor and Music of the Apocalypse work together? If I understand it correctly, does it mean a single noise marine can potentially make up to 12 shooting attacks with a sonic blaster when it dies in the CC phase?

>>53671286
I personally did a conversion. I used Grey Knight Psilencers and Psicannons with warpflamr gargoyles from the vehicle kit for the barrels.

Overall gives a pretty nice look, and it also helped inspire the knightly and dragon themes of my warband

R8

>2x10 Rubrics with Soulreaper Canon
>DP hangs with them in the back for them rerolls, he's got Precognition, Warp Bolter and Talons
>Jumpack Sorc with Warpfate deepstriking with five Scarab Occult with missile rack and canon
>Five man Rubric squad with four warpflamer and one warpflame pistol driving around in a Rhino
>Las Predator and Maulerfiend as a support

I have yet to check total point costs, but it looks alright, i think? I was thinking to take Helldrake instead of Predator or Maulerfiend as well.

So how about

Keeper of secrets 223

Lord of change. 340

Daemon prince with wings and axe 215

Daemon prince with talons. 156

Daemon prince with talons. 156

Soul grinder. 235

Nurglings X3 60
Nurglings X3. 60
Nurglings X3 60

1495pts. 3x patrol detachments

Looks fun and easy to transport

>>53672922
Is at least one of those daemon princes a CSM prince so he can cast prescience on the soul grinder? If so you're golden

>>53673217
Actually that only works on cam units not daemons

I'm a new player looking to join 8th edition with a CSM army. I'm leaning towards building a shooty army and came up with a list for a 1000 points game. Is this decent?

Heldrake - 138

Heldrake - 138

Heldrake - 138

Havocs 5 - 65

Havocs 5 - 65

Terminators 5 - 155

HQ - Sorcerer lord in terminator armor - 140

Predator - 102

Raptors 10 - 170

>>53674900
ignore the 3rd Heldrake

Is there even a point in taking a Sorcerer not on a bike?

It's better than all the mounts, it seems like.

I don't even understand the Nurgle mount to begin with.

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>i'm actually thinking about getting a CSM SC! Index bundle

I don't NEED the bodies, but having a proper Hellbrute and an extra termi lord/sorc would be nice. Plus, the bodies would let me go to a 20man melee blob since the HH boxes can only be used as bolter guys.

Having a physical index for one of my three armies would be nice, too I guess, even though it doesn't actually save me any money.

>>53675207

I've actually been deep striking my sorcerer with my termies by giving him a jump pack. It's cheaper than termie armor, and opponent can't target him anyway.

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>>53674900
That point cost is not including the wargear there kiddo.

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>>53653213
Why would you use anything else as Mortarion ?

>>53671286

I use kakophoni for sonic blasters, but I bought seperate, regular blastmaster bits. No doom sirens yet; probably will kitbash those out of random bits i have laying around.

Is there an advantage to sticking to one god?

Would some kind angry anon provide Skarbrands datasheet?

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>>53677003

>>53677182
Thanks a bunch bro

Tell me if my math is correct:
Hellbrute 72
Plasma cannon 30
Hellbrute fist 40
Hflamer 17
All 159??

>>53677428
Yeppers.
Now field six of them.

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>>53649729
G-good to know Undivided is getting the shaft. Not like I exclusively play Undivided haha

>>53678061
>implying Black Legion and Word Bearers won't get stratagems like the others

>>53650063
>DG is getting their own special terminator squad similar to TS Scarab Occult.

Will it also be inferior to the generic option?

>>53653213
Fulgrim is coming in a special boxed set game with new Noise Marines, the Sonic Dreadnought and an entire unit of Doomriders, facing off against plastic Sisters of Battle and Squats lead by the return of Johnny.

>>53650147

I just want to see someone throw 24 dice in the fight phase with this goober

>>53678447
>plastic Sisters of Battle and Squats
Annon pls dont lie, my heart cant handle this.

>tfw 20 termies, 30 raptors, 3 spawn, 3 Contemptors/Hellbrutes, a dreadclaw and at least 60 infantry models.

It's nowhere near assembled/painted yet, but HH+Chinaman is a helluva drug. I am at an I'm at an impasse because idk what to assemble next with this edition. Besides a bunch of dudes that are roughly evenly split between CC and shooty, I have 10 termies and 5 raptors. Part of of me wants to go full NL Atramentar, but that's a fuckload of points.

Fug

>>53671286
I am scared to do any conversions because if GW puts out plastic noise marines I will probably buy about 30.

>>53680901
That sounds like an awesome stack of models. One thing that surprised me a lot in the one game of 8th I've played is that combi-weapons are so amazing now. Every one of our vehicles that can run them, our Terminators, etc now have whatever weapon they choose available to fire every turn and can even fire the bolt rifle part of it in the same turn if they want.

In the one game I played all my rhinos and terminators were taking tons of meltagun and plasma gun shots due to their combi-weapons. AMAZING. However the new changes to fighting and charging make fighting so good that I'm super tempted to run a melee-centric list too.

>>53681265
I'm real tempted to actually buy my first army if I can buy a ton of noise marines on the cheap.

What weapons should I give Havocs?

>>53678795
No joke, owner of mu local GW has an army of 30K squats he kit bashed from the new AoS dwarfs.

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>>53684152
Yea. It's a crap ton of dudes, and I don't even know how I want to field them, yet. Lists feel bottlenecked, and I think I need to play more to get a real feel for how well things will be doing.

I've played a whopping 2 games so far, both 50pl with the same list:

>Lord with LClaw and CPlas
>Jump Sorcerer with FSword, CPlas
>10 CSM, 8 chain swords, one flamer, one PP, Icon of Vengeance, champ with PF+PP
>5 termies with 4 CPlas, Reaper, various power weapons, and a chainfist
>5 Raptors with 2 Meltas, and champ with FMelta
>5 Havoks with Autocannons and champ with CPlas
>Rhino w/CFlamer, Havok, and CBolter

Game one was actually a 4 way free for all using the FFA rules. Me, Orks, Spess Marines, and Nids. That was a relatively short game that only lasted one turn. Boyz killed 20 gene stealers and my rhino, my sorc dropped with my termies, and shot the hell out of the boyz that are my rhino, my melee squad and havocs did the same thing, then I assaulted the boyz that remained, killed a bunch and still took 27 swings in return. Thankfully, battle shock killed them because he accidentally charged out of range of his boss, who was split between two mobs. Deep striking with 4 players is hard.

Game two was against Dangles with 2 quad LasCannon preds, 2 10 man tac squads with plasma gun and plasma cannon in rhinos, and a librarian on foot. That was funny because even though the Lib was on foot solo in the open, I couldn't touch him. This game was a fuck fest. My raptors failed to kill a pred, I failed my Warptime on the termies (should have CP'd), and my rhino and CSM got stuck with both rhinos in the middle of the map. My raptors ate shit when his tac squads got out, but my termies lived through a total of 16 Lascannon shots, 20 bolter shots, and 7 plasma shots with one guy remaining at 1W thanks to cover, which was insane.

I think I am going to keep the raptors back in reserve from now on, though, then let them prey on the weak.

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>>53685412
A few more shots

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>>53685421

I have a lot to do yet, I know. I was literally working on them when everyone showed up to play.

>>53685412
>>53685421
>>53685442

Sounds like fun! That's what I've been thinking about doing with Raptors too. Their morale rule seems like a big hint to use them against weak units. Also remember that your enemy gets overconfident and moves a character into a position where they are the closest model to one of your units after you move, you can light them up. I have a strong feeling that Assault weapons are going to get used for this quite a bit. They think their big name is safe, you move, advance, then light it up with assault weapons.

I've been heavily considering running 2 squads of raptors and a jump pack lord and saving them until later in the game to cause chaos. Raptors can take plasma or melta and the champion can take a combi-plasma or melta meaning that your raptor squad could potentially jump in on a unit of MEQ and rapid fire 6 plasma shots at them. With a jump lord nearby, you can reroll 1s meaning that you can afford to try overcharging the plasmas too and the Lord can take a combi-plasma also and grants himself rerolls too. You can then charge, fight, and if the unit you are fighting survives you can even fall back and shoot all the plasma again next turn if you want because of the FLY keyword on the raptors and the jump lord.

Could be pretty gross!

I must be retarded but I can't find the leak for regular CSM. can someone spoonfeed me please?

>>53685760
https://mega.nz/#F!3odCTLCa!5Jc-zB2-JJcYlT55L6FN8g

>>53685774

Thanks, anon

>>53685641

I thinking two squads of either 7 or 10 on the raptors, but I also really want to try a squad of 10 warp talons. However, what will make or break them for me is whether they get 3 attacks or two because they're 28ppm. Regardless, raptors will definitely at least throw in the fear of leaving the back field open, which could easily cause your opponent make a mistake.

As for the Termies, I want to do a squad of 10 termies, with 7 combi-flamers and Lightning Claws, 2 Reaper ACs with claws, and the champ with a Combi-flamer and chainfist. Maybe I'll just do straight Combi-plas and power weapons to keep it cheap, though. Well as "cheap" being 460pts.

>>53686043
Please don't fall for the retards who are trying to say that you don't get three attacks. It's extremely obvious that you do.

Look at the wording on chainsword, lightining claw, power scourge and defiler scourge.

It is very obvious that if you take a chainsword and a lightning claw on a chaos lord that each one gives you an extra attack when chaos lord fights. There is absolutely no reason why two lighting claws or two chainswords wouldn't each give you an extra attack when you fight with the model equipped with them.

Termies are scary now, I can't tell if shooty+melee or pure melee is better, but either way a huge blob of them like that is going to be pretty terrifying to whoever you drop them on.

>>53686098
>>53686139

>Lord with Chainsword and Claw gets an extra attack with each
Except that's totally wrong for another reason completely. Lightning claws in the appendix only give an extra attack if you have the pair, and having the Chainsword would literally give you an extra Chainsword attack because the attack is with that weapon.

However, the debate with the Warp talons is different because the text on the talons datasheet is different than what it says in the index.

Termies will be scary either way, but you really need that sorcerer to Warptime them into position, especially for flamers/melee. That being said, it's 440pts for a squad of wolverines. That's 31 S4 3+ -2 attacks that reroll wounds, which kills about 10 Marines on average. It's pricey, but it's VERY difficult to kill that many terminators in a reasonable amount of time. That's also why I'm waiting on warp talons. They're not nearly as durable, but every 10 lightning claw attacks is basically 3.5 Marines dead. 280pts for 10 dead Marines is significantly better than 280 for only 7.

>>53686304
Hmmm, interesting. Good catch.

As far as the termies go, they're going to be pretty brutal either way, but I'm not sure that they are 400+ points of brutal. That being said, if you drop them on some expensive MEQs like a heavy weapons team I bet they make your points back.

I bet that the lightning claw entry in the index is outdated, but we'll see what GW says.

>>53686371
Looks like the entry for lighting claws in Chosen and Chaos Terminators matches the one in the index.

>>53686371
The only way 10 termies will ever ever not be 400pts is if you give them no upgrades, in which case they're 370pts for 10 combi-bolters and your choice of maces and swords. That's actually not terrible, really. 40 bolter shots and 21 S4 Ap-3 attacks that all hit on 3+ unlike fists and hammers.. What's funny is that axes are good against MEQ, but are worse against anything T6+ because they wound on 5+ anyway, cost more, and have less AP than the sword. Maces are generally worse than the Axe against MEQ but are better against T5 models. However, maces are also better than both the sword and the Axe against models with a storm shield because the AP is wasted on the axe/Sword and it wounds on a 3+.

>>53686562
Well they are reliable now when you deep strike them. I think they're worth the points if used correctly.

>>53686606
Oh, I agree. Regardless of how they're equipped, just about anyone is going to have a hard time moving 10 Ld9 terminators with any real speed. Except for maybe deldar spamming dissy cannons.

>>53686818
I dropped 5 chaos terminators behind a huge pile of space marines, sternguard and devs all armed with missile launchers the other day, I'd say 2 units of sterns, 2 units of tacs each with a missile launcher and 2 units of devs all with missile launchers and it took all of their shooting for a turn to put down the termies, the last one finally died in the very last set of shots. It was pretty awesome. Not a great use of my termies, but they did distract all that dakka for a turn, so mission accomplished lol

>>53686883

Like I said before, mine are a shitload of lascannon shots after I failed Warptime and still had a guy left after 2 turns. Imagine a full unit of 10. It would be absurd. Part of me really wants to try them plain with combi-bolters and power swords. It still kills a squad of Marines, and about 16 boyz. Actually. The difference between a mace and sword vs Marines is less than 1 and still averages out to 10 Marines. However, the mace kill significantly more boys because it removes the 6+ save while wounding on 3s.

With prescience, a squad of 10 Termies with power mauls and comb-bolters will kill 26 boyz or 11 space Marines. A sword will kill 21 boyz or 12 Marines instead.

>>53687059
Again with prescience, they kill 33 GEQ. Figured I'd throw that out there, too.

what did they do to obliterators

>>53687850
obliterators don't shoot normal guns anymore, they shoot "fleshmetal guns" which are 24", S6+D3, AP D3 and Damage D3. Meaning that they are essentially hovering between autocannon and lascannon.

>>53687868
so they are now even more random than flash gitz and need twice as many die rolls to shoot?

>>53687880
YEP

Also they only get 2 attacks per oblit which come at only 24"

ENJOY

>>53687868
>>53687880
>>53687941
They're utter trash now. You'll see plenty of retards with buyer's remorse trying to justify them by claiming it's easy to get within 24" with precise deep strike. Their real problem is they're even squishier than the old ones. They still get wrecked by 20pt heavy weapons (even more so now) and they're only 5pts cheaper.

If they were under 50 points they'd be OK. They also clearly learned nothing from the old Possessed with random powers every turn that everyone hated.

>>53687941
They don't seem reliable at all. I used to use my oblits in units of 1 as (sorta) durable deep striking melta/plasma. I heard oblits also lost their power fist in 8th.

I guess it remains to be seen what the points are, but you'd have to assume worst case scenario like with Possessed. I always though the S5 on possessed was very tempting, especially if you could increase it to S6 and start doubling out T3 models, but the high points cost, completely unreliable and trashy rules, poor survivability, lack of anything special beyond that made them not good.

>>53687995
>>53688005
lol look at you two mad retards sperging out, I'll take my oblits that are much tougher and still cheaper than havocs with wargear and enjoy them just fine thanks

>>53687995
Don't you know? Random is fun! Roll on a table to roll on a table to consult with another table.
At least Chaos Boons list is gone. What a piece of shit that was. I really hope they don't bring it back in the codex.

Just had a battle against outrider detachment orks (pretty much mobs of bikers and storm boys) against my csm (Juggerlord, marines, sorceror, bikers, cultists and bezerkers). The marines took a solid two turns to kill from the stormboys and took out a good helping of them to boot, plasma pistols may be worth it after all. Khorne Bezerkers did a lot to secure the win by killing a squad of bikers and storm boys before being shot down. The juggerlord and the sorcerer were also vital support pieces

>>53678343
Hopefully it doesn't take as long to get WB stuff again.