Helping Harpy

>>53643554
>Harpy
>D&D

>Harpies like to entrance hapless travelers with their magical songs and lead them to unspeakable torments. Only when a harpy has finished playing with its new "toys" will it release them from suffering by killing and consuming them.

>Alignment: Usually Chaotic Evil

You

You're retarded and i hope you all die

>>53643591
Pretty much this.

Harpies are dickholes. They've been killing and eating people. This is not forgivable.

Smite that fucking evil, boy.

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>>53643554
>Our group finished fighting a harpy and her friend bird
>and her friend bird
Teach the bird to speak for her.

>>53643591
>>53643616

That thought has come up, but since the paladin has immunity to charming and gives off an aura for it, we figure worst case scenario we just end up having to kill it later if it tries some bullshit.

>>53643686
It doesn't need to charm you.

You're being idiots without any magical influence.

She has literally been hunting and killing sentient beings for food. Kill her feathery ass, don't tap it.

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>befriending a harpy

Nothing good can come from this.

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>>53643702
>Kill her feathery ass, don't tap it.
>Implying the two are mutually exclusive
You lack perspective, my friend.

>>53643768
Look mate, sleeping with people before delivering righteous justice is highly unethical, and doing it afterwards is a fast track to becoming a Lich's bitch. Keep business and pleasure separate.

>>53643662

The bird is even less apt at language than she is. Also doesn't seem to be sentient or cognizance, whatever the right word is.

>>53643702

The thing is though, it was killing out of necessity, because it had no other options. Now we're giving it a choice, and if it chooses to be evil when it can not be evil and survive then we'll probably smite the heck out of it.

>>53643730

Well not with that attitude.

Could you possibly make her some form of prosthetic tongue?

>>53643946
There's always better options. Eat animals, find a new hunting ground, do something. It can fuckin' fly for god's sake, there's no excuse to stick around a desert wasteland without anything to eat. If she was hunting and killing people, it definitely wasn't entirely motivated by hunger.

>>53643702
>>53643616
>>53643591

I'll take failure to see the big picture for 500 Alex. First off, Usually chaotic evil means about 51%. By no means is that automatically evil. Lack of the evil sub-type means they aren't born evil, their behavior is learned. They've no biological need to do what they do, and could easily subsist off a more practical diet. Now, you have a tongueless harpy; a once in a lifetime opportunity dropping into your lap. She can't sing, depriving her of her main source of sustenance, and forcing her to rely on brute force, something she isn't biologically suited for; a perfect opportunity to wean her off her diet of human flesh and onto one that is both more practical and less evil. Now in the short run this is just one harpy, but in the long run, this potentially paves the way for more to follow in her footsteps (wingbeats?) either by observing her improved standard of living and becoming envious, or individuals who lacked the stomach to be fully comfortable with their lifestyle but lacking the conviction to turn their back on it seeing an example of a different way of life succeeding. It might take generations to come to fruition, but this is a slim chance to change the direction of a significant portion of a species.

I'd actually recommend, rather than using magic to feed her; which is impractical; trying to find some group, town, or settlement who would benefit from the skills and abilities a harpy brings to the table. Teach her to trade those skills for food. A harpy who cannot charm is barely a threat to your average militiaman, so her misbehaving wouldn't be much of an issue if she values her life.

Just take her with you. Maybe you'll find a healer on the road. Put some leather over her talons so she won't maim you as you sleep, and tie them on with a knot that requires thumbs to untie.

>>53643946
Then bring her with you and let her feed on the inevitable mountain of corpses an average adventuring party leaves in its wake.

>>53643998
>>53644002
This. Maybe she'll even take a liking to one of you and let you pump her rump after you put a ring on her talon. Paladin guy can marry you.

Or, at the very least, you get a pretty good scout with some nice eye candy.

>>53643991
She's a serial killer, that makes her CE simple as that. She should be brought to justice for her actions, not be helped to survive another day longer.

>>53643991
A harpy without charm is flying bird-bitch that can descend on an unfortunate militiaman at terminal velocity. This isn't a social experiment that will change whatever civilization Harpies have: It's a question of whether this Harpy deserves not only mercy, but also for the PCs to put in their time and effort to help them.

She's killed and eaten people, and due to the lack of a tongue, the only way she's able to defend her actions is through puppy eyes and having tits. Smite her ass.

>>53644046
>>53644053
Maybe they can reform her. Even completely fucking insane people can turn over a new leaf. Plus, if she causes trouble they can just stop her again.

It's a single bird person, not some end all evil. I say they smite the evil in her and not her entire being. That's true justice.

>>53644031
Consider that your close friend has been killed by her. How it would make you feel to see her get away with it scot-free?

>>53644097
She's a cannibalistic half-human serial killer. If they spare her and she goes right back to eating people, that's more deaths on their head. Just because she isn't some moustache-twirling demon king is not an excuse to let her go unpunished. Where's the justice for the dead? Is every dead man just going to have to go on to the Raven Queen's embrace knowing that the monster that straight-up ate them got hugged by adventurers and was taught magic because "Boo hoo she's so hungry and lonely because she already ate all the fuckers around her"?

>>53644097
What about the friends and families of the people she's killed, how are you going to make it up for them?

>>53644131
I believe that people can change. And while I would be upset, I would gain a lot more closure in getting her to understand that the action was wrong and preventing her from doing it again than just to kill her in cold blood.

Killing for revenge is an easy, empty act. It won't bring them back. But I can save a life in their place.

>>53644170
It's not saving a life. It's actively rewarding someone for doing an evil deed. It's not cold blood, as she attacked the party, and was defeated. She's not some autistic amoral entity, she's a fully sentient humanoid capable of free thought, and she has chosen to repeatedly kill other sentient beings.

>>53644160
No matter what, we can't bring back the people she has killed. Killing her wouldn't change that. But if she were to be redeemed, it means that we can prevent at least one more person from being lost. And maybe, just maybe, that lesson will spread.

>>53644144
So don't just let her go. Keep her around. Teach her what she's doing wrong. Give her alternatives, foster an appreciation for life. Evil begets evil. Kindness begets kindness. The past is important to remember but the present can change the future.

>>53644204
All the more reason to try and save her. A hero can't just abandon people to the horrible lives they've found themselves living. A hero saves people, even the villains if they can. It's wrong to kill a living, sentient, sapient being. The heroes aren't judges, juries, or executioners. They save people, and that harpy needs some redemption.

>>53644226
She's not redeemable. She's fully capable of making her own decisions, and she chose to kill again and again. Her claws are soaked with innocent blood, and her nest is lined with the bones of wayward travelers. It's not as if she's been a bandit stealing supplies from trade caravans or anything, which would have made more sense. There is no reason to let her live.

>>53644270
>Not judges, juries, or executioners
Well, let's bring in the hypothetical court of her peers. From a legal standpoint, she has engaged in murder and cannibalism. From a moral standpoint, she has murdered the friends and family of local villagers, and then ate them. She has committed dire crimes, and there's no reason for the party to spare her just so they can have a feathery waifu.

>>53644097
>>53644170
This desu. Eye for an eye is understandable, but ultimately barbaric and destructive. It makes evil go away and take another form, while this method not only reduces evil but increases good.

The harpy shouldn't go without punishment, but putting her to death when the opportunity for redemption exists is wasteful. I'd give her a cloak and some boots in an attempt to pass her as human while taking her with us in chains. Her punishment will be penance in the form of labor. Carry our shit, maybe help us in combat, do odd jobs for some of the people we meet on our adventures. All the while we'll be teaching her about good and orher ways of life. Perhaps one day she could even attempt to make amends with the families and friends of the people she killed.

>>53644309
You're going to enslave her, and hope that she'll learn kindness and mercy? And at the end, you hope she'll be forgiven by the families of the people she straight-up ate?

The merciful and just thing to do here is to execute her. It brings peace to the living, avenges the dead, spares her from suffering through a life obviously so shit she decided eating people was rational, and lets you collect any bounty on her head.

>>53644298
The reason to let her live is that she is alive, and she can think. The reason she should be saved is because she can be. Is it "just" to give up on someone so easily? If there's even the tiniest chance a life can be saved, a real hero takes it. A harpy is not worth more or less than a human. A living being is a living being, and they should be drug into the right path even if they're kicking and screaming all the way. All sins are capable of redemption, should the sinner seek forgiveness.

A real hero would try, because it's the right thing to do.

>>53644298
The reason they should spare her is because they're heroes. They should take the high road.

>>53644309
would you spare an old male human cannibal? or a naga? he killed and ate people for food. a lot. but he doesn't have tits and feathers. i highly doubt you'd put them in a sweater and make them carry your fannypack and apologize.

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>>53644226
Alright, and if she looked like this instead would you still be as keen to redeem him?

>>53644393
Yes, because I'd be playing as a hero. And an old man would be a lot easier to keep in line than a harpy.

All life is sacred.

>>53644402
Yes. It's a person. They should live. I don't want to die so why should I want someone else to?

>>53644417
you can be a hero without also simultaneously being an altruistic doormat. you can save the day and punish the sinner. eating other sentient beings is when it lost the ability to apologize out of the situation. it could have eaten scorpions and cacti. it instead chose to eat people.

>>53644364
>>53644389

It's not just about redemption. It's about justice. She's killed, and killed, and killed. Look at what the others are proposing: That she be given gifts of magic and healing, that she be shackled and chains and forced to learn a life not of her own making, that she become something she is clearly not. It's not just a question of if the qt birb is salvageable, it's a question of whether it should be salvaged.

>>53644417
Really now? I assume you're doing nothing but non-lethal damage, then?

Being a hero doesn't always mean being nice. It means doing the right thing. Sometimes that means someone that deserves it has to get hurt. If you don't do that, then people will learn that all they need to do is repent for as long as the heroes are watching, and then return to their dastardly deeds.

>>53644452
You can punish the sinner without killing them.

Or you can teach the sinner about how and why their actions were a sin, what they should have done instead, and how to act better in the future, and they'd hopefully never sin again.

Give a man a fish, teach a man to fish.

>>53644454
no, we have to spare zugzug rapesword the merciless! when we disarmed him he said if we killed him we'd be the real monsters! quick, get me my comfort blanket and my warm milk, stat!

>>53644484
The punishment should fit the crime. Repeated murder and cannibalism is a capital crime.

>>53644487
That's the philosophy people are preachin', yeah.

>>53644454
A hero shouldn't kill something unless they have to. They should save them unless it's impossible. Killing in the heat of combat is fine, but when someone is at their mercy, they should excercise that mercy.

Would killing them really do anything to remove their sins from the world? Or would it just be one more dead body on the pile?

>>53644484
killing doesn't automatically become unconscionable because you want to rehabilitate something with absolutely no guarantee it will listen (or even deserves it to begin with). you're the man who will die in his bedroll, coup de grace'd by the hardened highwayman who you taught to plant rutabagas and say sorry with macaroni paintings.

>>53644517
It would prevent more bodies from being added.

>>53644487
This isn't zugzug rapesword. This is Tongueless the Harpy. Zugzug is a member of a faceless horse with many other faceless horde members that would reinforce his behavior and undo his conditioning.

The harpy is a singular, weaker being. With a soul. With a life. With a capacity to change, and nothing to undo it.

>>53644517
Nothing wrong with executions if the crime warrants.

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>>53644547
it wasn't too weak to eat people. it had a soul and a life and it ate people. this crime would have dirtied any soul beyond the point of redemption. paladins have smite spells because sometimes, you gotta smite.

>>53644528
Good does not necessarily mean soft. Do you think I'd just give him a flower, pat him on the head, and let him walk around like he owns the place? No, I'd restrain him, and talk to him from the comfort of about 5 feet away from him as he's tied to a rock or tree. When I can trust him, I'll let him off a little asker, but no freedom until he proves himself.

>>53644517
Why should she receive mercy when she had none? It's about sending a message.

>>53644547
So you're saying that any member of a large group becomes worth nothing, whereas an antisocial cannibal fuckwit actually has a soul?

>>53644547
You're thinking with your dick not your heart, and masquerading it as morality you wretch.

>>53644582
Sending a message to who? A corpse?

My methods send messages to living people. Specifically, those I redeem.

>>53644539
As would my method.

>>53644558
Not a jury. The harpy has rights as a living being.

>>53644580
Souls can be cleaned with enough work.

>>53644581
your trust can be erroneously given. murderers with silver tongues and the capacity to lie and feign repentance exist. they will earn that trust and exploit it. they will take the given freedom with all the ferocity and mercilessness that they used all their lives for coins or food or women. someone will be spared, will lie, and will betray you. it's an inevitability.

>>53644602
I'm saying that while Zugzug has something to reinforce his behavior, the lone harpy hermit is more subject to change.

>>53644605
I'd do the same for a fucking pigman or a slime if I could. I place a high value on life.

>>53644627
And how many people will be saved before that inevitability? Even one makes it worth it. And the inevitability is nothing but motivation to be stronger than the evil I combat.

>>53644642
>I place a high value on life

Clearly you don't. You'd rather kill an Orc that you believe would return to their savage roots, but let a monster with a proven history of violence and borderline insane behaviour be exalted as an example of redemption.

>>53644668
the thing is, it could be literally none. you could be wrong the first time you try it. strength comes from the willingness to exercise power. if you hold it back, you're, in practice, very weak in reality. i could fall to my knees and repent until i get it right.

>>53644677
I'd save the orc if I knew it was isolated, was strong enough to restrain it, and it showed any semblance of potential to be kind, caring, selfless, and pure. But Orcs are rarely alone.

>>53644642
>I place a high value on life
If you did you wouldn't make excuses why the orc shouldn't be given mercy and chance of redemption to begin with. You sound false.

>>53644705
Strength is nothing without discretion. I could kill and kill until there was nothing left around me and all I would have is a red outfit and a pile of corpses.

I choose to try, even if I risk failure, because the reward is great enough to accept that risk.

>>53644716
And the harpy has shown none of these qualities. It is a murderous bitch that has eaten innocent people. It's weak, alone, and entirely deserving of a righteous smiting. Don't think of it being cruel. She descended on lone travelers with her bird in tow. Turnabout is fair play.

>>53644746
>it's weak, alone
>weak
So what's the harm in trying? I'm only going to get stronger.
>alone
Not if I befriend it.

If the harpy is responsive enough to bargain for the spell, it's responsive enough to try turning it. Worst case scenario, we try it your way. Best case, a life is saved and an ally is made.

>>53644611
What if killing her would bring back one of her victims?

>>53644743
I could kill and kill and end up with a village of safe, good people who never did a thing worth dying over, a fat wife, ten kids, a nice chair in the local tavern, and a batch of happy young recruits training to be the local guard. And no cannibals tending our fields, rapists baking our bread and robber barons sending apology letters. My place in the world could be as safe as my determination and sword hand allows.

>>53644777
I wouldn't know which one it was. And someone would still be dead, and I would face the blame for it. Better to try with what I have, and if it turns bad we can try to roll the dice, with regret and hopes that we do not bring back something worse.

>>53644743
Reward of what? Denying her victims' close ones justice?

>>53644770
It's not bargaining for the spell. It has no tongue. The party is literally going to save a murdering cannibal for no reason.

As for your best case scenario, you forget the enemies you'll make. Any nearby villages will likely be hostile, knowing that you chose to support a murderous monster instead of them. That means they won't be sharing their supplies, which means starving.

But hey, they're in a group, so no saving them. Just kill them and eat them, like your new friend would.

>>53644789
Killing people for their past wrongs would leave the world with very few people. And what is the worth of a judge that only hands out death sentences with no trial?

>>53644770
But an orc is not worth the effort? Take him along you if you're so worried about his society.

>>53644800
The reward of saving a life, a soul, a myriad of living possibilities from cold, impersonal death.

>>53644798
Haa, but this time the dead one would arguably deserve it. Why not take the chance and roll the dice, as you said?

>>53644823
It's not past wrongs. It's last week's wrongs, coupled with their recent attack on you.

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>>53644823
I don't see how me saying that I would kill those who did crimes worth dying over means I would kill until the world was without people. Good and honest folk exist already, no need for them to turn on their heel and repent. The value of a judge unafraid to kill those who have earned death is the safety of every last one of those people.

>>53644805
Let the villagers hate me. I won't hate them back. I'm siding with everyone, even if they say otherwise.

And it's not that I wouldn't try to save a group of orcs. It's that I doubt I could save a group of orcs, or even get them to listen to me.

>>53644828
They are worth the effort, and in a similar situation I would. But standing around and trying to talk to an orc as I'm mired in the horde seems suicidal, and my life is valuable as well.

>>53644911
You're not siding with everyone. You're siding with the side that puts out.

The Harpy is a monster through and through. It's committed crimes worthy of death, and has no excuse for it. There is literally no reason to spare it from its deserved fate.

>>53644867
I don't think anyone deserves death, anon.

>>53644869
The past can't be changed, even the most recent one. Al I have control of is now and what is soon to be.

>>53644878
Who determines what is worth Death? Would you kill a murderer if you knew he would turn to a life of monkhood a week after you met him? Who are you to decide when misguidedness becomes unforgivable evil?

>>53644926
I'm siding with anyone and everyone who lives, thinks, and breathes. I would save each of those villagers from the brink of death if they needed it, and if they choose to hate me for saving another, so be it. It would be evil to discriminate, so I choose not to.

>>53643947

Interesting, I hadn't considered that angle. Would one be able to be implemented and usable without high level magic?

>>53643975

It's a very big desert, I don't think she and her friend would be able to leave easily without some killing going on, and that's assuming they can get out without dying.

>>53643991

It's interesting you mention the learned behavior thing, because instead of luring with her voice we found this harpy who was using jewelry to lure in unsuspecting victims into a trap. Something to make up for her lack of singing, it seems. Finding a town in the desert that isn't hostile to this creature would be tricky, since it's not unlikely she'd have attacked people or tried to attack people who have gone to live in the nearby towns. Plus, being a desert, it would be difficult to get to any other nearby towns. Even if they were able to accept the harpy, getting her giant bird friend to be accepted as well might be even more difficult because it's not sentient and able to stop being antagonistic as easily (though it might be able to be solved with lots of Animal Handling).

>>53644937
But she's not entering a life of monkhood. She literally tried to kill the party 5 minutes ago.

>>53644968
Shame she doesn't think the same way. She's killed, man. You can play the holier than though card all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that she's snuffed out so many innocent lives. Why would you choose to rate her life above that of her innocent victims?

>>53644985
So the bitch was luring people to her death, and has a murder-bird that only knows how to kill?

She's evil. Smite her ass.

>>53644937
I decree death when the taken has exceeded the value of one's life. Ending a life, save for ending the life of another murderer. Stealing the honor and dignity of another being. Taking hard-earned goods through force or subterfuge to the point a life is forever altered or reduced. All of these crimes are things that cannot be removed. They must be answered for in worth and value. Destroying the culprit prevents any future actions. There is a scale of Justice. And it can tip.

>>53644988
Because I can't bring those victims back, and I am not the one to judge their "innocence".

>>53645010
Right. Eating people tips it pretty fucking far. Without punishment, there is no justice.

>>53645041
Exactly what I was trying to get across.

>>53645010
So, why shouldn't you kill yourself after ending the life of another? What puts you above the system? No one is evil all the time, and no one is good all the time. There is not black and white, only gray.
Perhaps I should kill you for all those you have slaughtered?

And who says that those murderers didn't kill people because they thought their victims were wrong? Who's to say you aren't just perpetuating a cycle?

>>53645041
>>53645058
Death is death. Harpies eat people the same way some people eat dogs. Should dogs kill humans?

ITT: Lawful Good Versus Neutral Good and True Neutral

>>53645071
Perhaps I did earn death for being the tool of judgement and justice, but I doubt it. But I can say that all those I have elected to kill have taken lives in ways much less fairly than I. They've harmed people beyond what death could accomplish. Or they've taken so much that other people have suffered far too unfairly. I sleep well on my pillow. I am above those I punish due to having a well-defined set of laws and rules, morals and credos, and never deviating from them.

>>53645071
Sure, things are grey at times.

But eating people is fucking black. Killing should never be taken lightly, and everything must be taken into consideration when administering the sentence.

Bird-bitch deserves to be staked out and left to die under the sun, but because you seem to be the type of person to woo her with flowers, a quick death will serve as a substitute.

>>53645096
That's fucking idiotic. Dogs are not sentient. People are. Dogs reared as livestock are entirely different from free-thinking humans that very much want to not be eaten by a murderous bird-bitch.

>>53644823
So take her to a court of justice, then. What's your problem with that solution?

>>53644452
>implying every desert has cacti
>implying scorpions are always abundant enough to feed something the size of a small person who uses lots of calories flying
Imagine being the harpy? Your will to live isn't gone. In a "them or you" situation, I cannot fault the harpy for trying to live. If it was proven murder for murders sake, and cannibalism (which it's not, it's more like a human eating chimp in that it toes the line of disgusting, perhaps more so for us who are disturbed by eating human as humans ourselves) for sick thrills of a psychopath, that's a very different thing. Whether it's irredeemably evil is something that is based on it's intentions: you can't redeem something that's stubbornly evil, but we don't know it's intentions as it can't speak. It could just be a chaotic neutral member of it's race even. Without a tongue, we can't hear it's side and judge it properly, but with a tongue it's more dangerous.

I'd restrain it, teach it to write or use some kind of sign language, or find some protection against any magic it has and then heal it, but the creature deserves to be understood before judgement is cast. If it was a situation where the creature was currently attacking someone it'd be different, but if it's been defeated and spared as a prisoner presumably, and you cannot kill something that's yielded to you and then pretend to have any honor or sense of goodness, even if it's an orc. At the same time, it needs to know the weight of it's sins before it can be properly punished for them, otherwise the creature is essentially just being tortured or killed for no reason that it may be aware of: they're a majority chaotic evil race so it's culture wouldn't likely instill a sense of morality into the creature so it may not fully understand. Even if you take it prisoner and eventually judge and execute it, it deserves the chance at redemption that comes with knowing. If they wanted to avoid this kind of thing, they shouldn't have spared it.

>>53645132
Eating people is not wrong from a harpy's perspective. It's wrong from ours, but harpies see humans as a source of food and reproduction in some cases. It's wrong to treat her eating humans as the same thing as a human eating humans. It's wrong for a person to eat a human, but it's not wrong for a harpy to eat a human, only for them to kill a good one. They can eat a corpse.

>>53645156
Nobody suggested it. And it would have to be a court with equal harpy and human representation, if possible. Harpies have different standards of living in comparison to humans.

>>53645156
Assuming the PCs can find a judge, that'll be an adequate solution. While immediate execution would be expedient, efficient, and without the risk of her escaping, that would work.

>>53645172
There are obviously villages nearby, as mentioned earlier. If things are really so desperate, it's possible to just steal food from their stocks to survive.

She's baiting travelers in with gold to kill them.

>>53645184
They still killed people. This is an act that deserves to be punished, regardless of conflicting cultural values.

>>53645205
She killed people to survive. She obviously would have gone for the easier stealing option if they could. Perhaps the villages had archers or fortifications.

She should be rehabilitated and punished through rehabilitation.

>>53644841
It's a life that doesn't deserve saving, as proven by her actions.

>>53645235
We don't know the state of the villages. They could be small farming villages, they could be fortified towns.

As for rehabilitation, as has been said, she doesn't even consider what she's done wrong. She believes that it's perfectly fine for people to die for her meals. That's a helluva lot to overcome. She won't take kindly to prey attempting to force her to take up their ways.

>>53645273
Every life deserves saving. But few get the opportunity.

>>53645282
If it's possible for it to be overcome, it should be overcome.

Murder is premediated. This is manslaughter, if anything.

>>53643998

We do have some leftover leather straps, so this might be a potentially viable option. Though a healer out in the middle of the desert willing to do this might be difficult, especially since it'd be a relatively high level (and thus expensive) spell to my knowledge.

>>53644002

This is actually kind of a logical option. Hmmm.

>>53644452

It came back with what seemed like a full days worth of scavenging for food when we got to it's nest area, and it didn't look like nearly enough for her, let alone for her and her bird friend.

>>53645302
It was premeditated. She lured travelers in with jewelry.

>>53644911
>mired in the horde
Why you instantly assume the orc must be met in conditions that conveniently make trying to redeem him too hard for you to even try? You shouldn't stop doing good if it's going to be a bit difficult - especially when it would be difficult.

>>53645302
>was using jewelry to lure in unsuspecting victims into a trap
Seems premeditated to me.

>>53645317
She didn't plan to kill anyone specific. She just killed anyone who showed up for food. Which she didn't see or understand as wrong due to her having a different kind of morality.

Don't harpies enjoy human flesh, even if you get it to somewhere with plenty of food it may just go after her preferred prey.

>>53645331
When you set a snare trap, is it murdering a rabbit?

>>53645353
Depends on the harpy, and I doubt one would enjoy it after living off it in such horrible conditions. It's like eating nothing but candy. Or just get her to switch to pork.

>>53645328
Orcs are never alone, anon. If you see one orc there are at least 3 there. It's just how they are.

>>53643554
Obvious solution is to conquer the harpy's civilization and destroy their savage culture by overriding with whatever your players are using. Just trying to turn one harpy isn't enough.

>>53645490
Hey, it worked for the Native Americans!

And most of Africa

>>53645289
I vehemently disagree. Murder is unforgivable crime, and she's a multiple one.

>>53645501
I was thinking more of cannibal tribes that were on lands colonized by various Euros.

>>53645511
Killing her without giving her a chance would be equivalent to murder in my eyes.

>>53645523
I thought about putting those, but I didn't know their names besides the Anglo-Saxons and Picts.

Go full Rome on 'em.

>>53645449
Again, why you insist on this?

>>53645546
I'm not him. It's just that you never, ever, encounter a single orc.

>>53645527
No, it is equivalent to justice.

>>53645546
Because he want dat bird booty.

>>53645527
Ignorance of the Law of the land is not an excuse.

>>53645556
To you and no one else is it truly justice. To her it is murder, and to me it is a senseless act of violence that would be committed by an animal or lesser being.

>>53645555
So when you meet multiple harpies they should put to death without questions, then?

>>53645568
Killing a murderer does not make you better than them. It makes you equal to them, because you do as they do.

>>53645576
It's not exactly senseless to kill a multiple murderer. It's in fact the rational choice.

>>53645581
If I was surrounded by a flock of fucking harpies, orcs, or humans and they were attacking me I would defend myself.

At this point you should treat her like any large predator of your people and either kill her or cage her.

>>53645603
It's wrong to kill people. It's wrong to decide someone else should die if it isn't a you or them situation, like combat. Animals kill each other, people reason with eachother.

>>53645593
But that's objectively not true. You're not killing for personal gain but to bring her her just deserts, there's the difference.

>>53645635
Her deserts that you, a flawed human being who is above no other sentient being, determine. Personal justice isn't just. It's self-indulgent and close-minded.

>>53645630
>It's wrong to kill people.
True
>It's wrong to decide someone else should die
False.
Any questions?

>>53645654
It's wrong for one, non-impartial person to determine that someone else should die. And it's wrong to put someone to death unless absolutely necessary.

>>53645649
And you're being too open minded for giving a chance for someone who doesn't deserve it.

>>53645672
Everyone deserves a chance, as long as it is possible for them to take it.

May he who is without sin throw the first stone. May those who have made no mistakes ever in their life put us all to death.

>>53645693
This isn't a prostitute, it's a multiple time cannibalistic murderer.

>>53645693
I never ate anyone. I just killed someone who ate someone. don't want to die? Don't eat people.

>>53644393
Mercy and grace are the greatest of virtues. Pacifist Paladins ftw.

>>53645748
Adulterous wife, not a prostitute.

>>53645763
All sins are equal. And it isn't wrong for a harpy to eat a human corpse. Only to kill a human. We adressed this.

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>>53643554

You're overthinking this. Just maim her slightly and, if she's intelligent enough to understand your, tell her you'll come back and finish the job unless she changes her ways. If her tongue's already cut out, all you really have to do is hobble her wings and claws and she's more or less defanged. Leave her with some food, if you're inclined to be generous, and go on your merry way.

>>53645808
And then she'll starve to death after she eats it because she's in a desert with no way to escape it or hunt.

>>53645802
No they aren't, stealing a handful of food from a fat guy is not equal as eating him. And she was killing them not grave robbing.

>>53645821
Then take her out of the desert before you leave her.

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Don't all these supposed problems with rehabilitation go away if you just stick an alignment change item on her?

>>53645840
Evil is evil. The lightest of sins will put you in hell as easily as the heaviest if unatoned for. The only right option is to save the harpy from herself, lest ye be tainted by her blood.

>>53645850
And then she'll still be unable to hunt, or function peacefully in a society. She's your problem then.

>>53645821

Well, at least she's got a chance, which is more than she ever gave any of her victims. You don't have to take personal responsibility for her just because she failed to eat you.

>>53645851
Yes, but that's no fun and presents no philosophical questions other than if it's ok to chance someone's morality without their consent.

Can't you just detect evil then use the result to smite or not?

>>53645881
If that was a chance she wouldn't be luring in people to kill them in the first place. She's either be swooping down and hunting travelers or living in some monster slums of a human city.

>>53645892
Evil relative to whose idea of good?

>>53645917
The paladin's god?

Ok so here's what I get from the three options

Kill her:
>you avenged some strangers and get 12 gold, an apple from some poor villager, and 5 exp

Save her:
An ally, the chance of getting attacked by a weak monster in your sleep, and maybe bird sex

Help her: Quest exp, bird friendship, and a bit of whatever's in her nest

Saving her sounds best, if she isn't a real threat.

>>53645953
>maybe bird sex
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je6odKSn1TU

>>53645924
Ok, that's fair. Unless their god is an asshole.

>>53645966
Maybe bird marriage too.

>>53645977
Ain't got time for that.

>>53645982
Well, maybe some other time.

>>53645907

Look, you wanna cart her ass around so you can eventually fuck the bird murderess, that's fine too. I'm just saying there's nothing wrong with dumping her in the middle of nowhere after a sound ass-whooping.

>>53646005
How very heroic.

>>53644805

I mean, not that it isn't interesting watching you and your friend argue about harpy killing morality, but since our party has the paladin with the infinite food and water spell, we likely wont be running out of supplies any time soon.

>>53645003

She was just doing the only option she knew how to do, I'm trying to give her a new less evil option. The smiting comes if she continues to do evil after being given the option to not.

>>53643946
Chaotic Evil doesn't dictate killing out of necessity, True neutral or Chaotic Neutral does. Chaotic Evil means it lures people out there with the sole intent of killing them out of sheer enjoyment.

>>53646014

Odysseus liked magic pussy too, but he didn't bring home a Siren.

>>53646058
He would have brought home Calypso, a demititan, if he could.

>>53646082

Giddafuck out of here, Penelope is the ultimate waifu.

>tfw when you will never lay your woman in a bed of living oak
>tfw no woman will spurn a thousand suitors for you if you leave her for twenty years

>>53646110
You're not wrong, but I'm stating facts.

>>53643554
There's no moral conundrum here sir. Monsters are for extermination, and this harpy hasn't exactly extended an olive branch for you to say "maybe I shouldn't", from the look of things.

If you wanna save her in the hopes of giving her the mighty peacock, that's fine, but it's not a moral quandary of any sort, and the purpose of the thread (i.e. to advice) is wholly pointless because you've already made up your mind.

tldr OP is a fag

>>53646243

Look, I respect the choices you would make if you were playing the campaign, but I'm trying to get advice on how to achieve the goal me and other party members have in this campaign now, which is to help the harpy out. I've made up my mind on what to do, just not how to do it, which is the intent of this thread.

>>53645172

It is apparently capable of writing in common with it's appendages, we learned this before the last session ended, so we are going to try to further communicate with the harpy to see what we can learn.

>>53645205

Villages 'nearby' is a relative term, as it took us a few days to get from the middle of nowhere near a town to get to the harpy.

>>53645953

I'm not quite sure what the difference between save her and help her is, here.

>>53646051

It doesn't necessarily have to be a chaotic evil creature, it just has that tendency, and even if it was, it can still be redeemed.

>>53646325
You basically need to brainwash it into thinking everything in knows is wrong.

>>53646325
Redemption takes a very long time. The best bet would be to completely bound and gag it, keeping it alive until you reach town.

Defending it from monsters and other encounters, etc.

DESU though Party 'Waifu' stuff often goes bad.

>>53646339
Well save as in turn her into a good person/ally and help as in give her another option, such as healing her tongue.

>>53646371
Also, keep in mind that just healing its tongue wouldn't make it friendly at the get go. These are uncivilized monsters who make a habit out of murder and death. And that's even if townsfolk don't kill it beforehand. Raising up arms against paranoid townsfolk who have every right to be afraid of such would be detrimental to your paladin.

>>53646325
Bring the thing with you and keep an eye on it. You can feed and attempt to correct it's behavior when it attempts to feed itself. You said yourself you can't teach it to cast food making spells (right now anyway, maybe you can find a wand of "create food" or something, I dunno) and the nearest village will probably kill the harpy on sight, and/or you guys for helping it.
You're paladin should also organize the rest of you to pool your resources and pay back the victims of the harpy in an effort to save some face with the villagers. The paladin should take extra care, as his willingness to prolong the life of a murderous, evil creature could result in his fall. If you fail to rehabilitate her, and she kills again, your paladin would have willing aided in the murder of innocents...His god will smite him first.

>>53646343

Brainwash sounds a bit harsh for what I want to do, I think providing it with other alternatives and showing the benefits of those are better than those of it's current lifestyle would be more beneficial in the long run.

>>53646367

Keeping it bound and gagged doesn't sound effective at getting it to trust us and thus want to change in the long run.

>>53646371
>>53646398

Yeah, it's just the how of getting the tongue healed that'd be difficult. It probably wouldn't be right away though, which would hopefully give it time to be a bit more friendly, or a bit less inclined to fight at the very least.

>>53646422

>You can feed and attempt to correct it's behavior when it attempts to feed itself

Jeez, I'm not trying to turn this thing into a pet or something. I'd like it to be self sufficient after we help it. As for potentially paying back villagers, we took down all the gold and related stuff the harpy was using to lure people with, so after we pay for entry to a town we might have some funds left over to do that with. Not sure what you mean about the paladin falling, I don't think that'd necessarily happen for doing something wrong but with good intentions. Might depend on the deity though.

>>53646539
>Jeez, I'm not trying to turn this thing into a pet or something.
That's exactly what you're doing. D&D 5e Harpies are 7 INT. If you use the rule of thumb that every point of INT is x10 IQ, that puts a Harpy well below average human and just above apes that use tools. She's either mentally retarded or a smart animal. Either way you're "training" her not to eat people because YOU think it's bad. You might as well explain to a baboon, why ripping apart a toddler is "wrong".

>I don't think that'd necessarily happen for doing something wrong but with good intentions.
A Paladin's job to to smite evil. You're Paladin attempted to redeem an evil being and, if that backfires, will have aided in the death of innocents. Intentions or not, your Paladin would have spread wickedness through incompetence or complacency.

>>53646623
>70 IQ
>a pet

No, just a dumb person. Also consider that most harpies aren't educated.

>>53646623
The paladin is eliminating evil by redeeming a sinner.

>>53646672
>if that backfires, will have aided in the death of innocents. Intentions or not, your Paladin would have spread wickedness through incompetence or complacency.

>>53646623
70 iq is low, but not unheard of. It's enough to give you major trouble in school, but it still permits working in a physical setting. It's dumb, like really dumb, but still very within the realm of human intellect. Higher than retardation, low enough to be significant.

>>53646702
The fault of the harpy for not taking the Paladin's mercy. Your idea of a paladin sounds more like a crusader or inquisitor.

>>53646659
Koko the Gorilla was tested at IQ 80-95. Yes a Harpy is an above average pet for all intents and purposes.
Education can't fix low intelligence. She will understand to a much more limited degree than most other sentient beings. You will need to cart her around for a while to "teach" her to not be an evil, cannibalistic, death-machine.

>>53646749
The measure of a Paladin is in souls saved. If he can redeem a Harpy (at least it's not a Succubus, so good on him for trying something new) then good on him. If not, he cost lives and should be punished by his god.

>>53646749
>Let me just take this chaotic evil thing and attempt to tame it. If it doesn't work despite all my attempts I am not at fault for its crimes even though it is my fault because my waifu.

>>53646755
Koko is an outlier, not the rule. And IQ isn't necessarily a direct measure of intelligence. Koko is still less intelligent than a human.

>>53646659
A harpy isn't a person.

>>53646784
>>53646790
Imagine if the harpy were human. A dumb, uneducated human, with feathers.

That's what a harpy is.

>>53646794
You're counting on this Harpy to be an outlier as well. It's an apt comparison.

>>53646803
But a harpy isn't a human. It's an evil monstrosity that needs to be destroyed.

>>53646797
It's a person but also a bird. It's sapient, capable of communication and higher reasoning.

Kill the harpy. Any race locked to a consistent alignment has more than bad choices behind its behavior.

This is a world where dark gods create entire races for the sole purpose of laying waste to the Material, and to exterminate them all would be a mercy towards both all other life and their own souls, which might then be reincarnated into forms free of the influence of the elder evils from the Abyss or the Hells.

Set her free.

>>53646818
The average intelligence of a harpy is 70, due to their average INT being 7.

Koko is one gorilla who cannot speak

>>53646819
It's as much a person as an elf or dwarf. Actually, i think Harpies are better than elves. Elves are cunts.

>>53646803
That couldn't be more incorrect. A Harpy bears vague similarities to a human, and that is all. Its mind is completely alien to us, its sense of morals are far and away foreign to our own.

Think of it. Out of all the times harpies have appeared in DnD there's never been a settlement that was even at neutrality with nearby civilization. The harpies invade nearby woodlands and immediately begin to kill.

>>53646847
Like Mongolians, or certain middle eastern societies.

>>53646847
And has anyone ever tried to change that?

>>53646803
A Harpy is an Evil, Sadistic, Cannibalistic, Monstrosity. It's a parody of life and exists as a twisted abomination whose sole purpose is to torture it's food before eating it, because it's fucking EVIL. D&D has always had a very clear good/evil dichotomy with each connected to their respective plains. Her presence is a stain on reality as she is a literal negative influence to the natural forces of the Prime Material Plane.

Redeem her. I dare you.

>>53646877
Ok.

>>53646875
I'm sorry that you're one person who likes to tell the creators of the games that their books are incorrect for stating something as fact. You can probably call them and whine all you want. I'm certain your GM is planning something to thwart, or mess up the party either way.

>>53646820
So it's like birdperson, from Rick and Morty?

>>53646925
If I were DMing this, I would let them have it, why not. But redeeming an entirely evil creature (low int chaotic at that) would be a campaign long process with more than one attempt by the harpy to eat one of the PC's while they sleep.

She should at least relieve one of the PC's of his fingers, the next time they grab a hand full of shiny trinkets in front of her.

>>53646948
no, it's not.

>>53646925

The person you're replying to isn't the player, it's me. I'm not sure why you're being such a spoilsport about this whole thing, my party wants to try to save the harpy regardless of chances or outcomes. If it works it works, if it doesn't it doesn't. Nothing worth arguing about, especially when it ain't the point of this thread.

>>53646965
If they had a paladin and a Cleric both working at it, maybe within a few months in game it might start to come around.

>>53646990
You're attempting to culture-shock something, to change an entire life that is basically hard-wired into its DNA. Genetically, mentally and logically it's impossible.

It could be done through generations of constant vigilance, but a spur of the moment thing? Think of how long it took humanity to tame wolves, that took decades.

>>53646975
How?__?

>>53646948
Kind of but more girly

>>53647012
You're thinking of a harpy as nothing more than a beast. They're more like a cannibal tribeswoman. Except it's not cannibalism.

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>>53646948
>>53647019

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>>53647048

>>53646990
You're fundamentally misunderstanding the nature of a Harpy as it's existed throughout the history of D&D. By all means do what you want, but you asked how to go about helping a Harpy and the actual, true D&D answer is, "You don't".

This whole thread is basically theorizing how your DM is going to handle it. If he were a traditionalist, the Harpy would murder you guys in your sleep. I hope he's not a traditionalist.

>>53647082
You know anon, I bet you're really fun at parties.

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>>53647048

>>53646110
>he doesn't know that she fucked both Pan and Poseidon
Your waifu is shit.
Athena is best girl.

>>53643554
Wash her and sell as a slave. She will be fed at least.

>>53647129
Athena is unable to love you and if you're going to pick a maiden you should always pick Hestia.

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>>53647074
>The harpies seems originally to have been wind spirits (personifications of the destructive nature of wind). Their name means "snatchers" or "swift robbers" and they steal food from their victims while they are eating and carry evildoers (especially those who have killed their family) to the Erinyes. When a person suddenly disappeared from the earth, it was said that he had been carried off by the Harpies thus, they carried off the daughters of king Pandareus, and gave them as servants to the Erinnyes. In this form they were agents of punishment who abducted people and tortured them on their way to Tartarus. They were vicious, cruel and violent.

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>>53647140
>Only one with a strong heart, mind or soul can take a stand against the mind set that all are evil. A harpy I may be, but a devil I am not." The Cloaked woman walks off without another word.

>Many Harpies, although considered the hags of nature, can actually be quite attractive sometimes. The women are slender, curvy, busty, and well built. The men are muscular, toned, and sometimes ferocious and handsome. Some use this for good, but many for evil. With their song in hand, they lead many to their doom. Those who work to change the name tend to hide in cloaks, even though many do not have a concept of clothing, or just plain hate clothes. Contrary to popular belief, harpies' wings and arms never meet. They are always separate, but their talons and feathers vary. Some can have black, others blue; maybe even green or white. The talons are always curved, but maybe some broke theirs to change people's thoughts. Others may have kept them long and let them grow to the malicious curve. They have them on both their hands and feet, as all harpies have the "bird legs."

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>>53647138
>your waifu can't love you
but that applies to every waifu so it can't be held against her.

>>53647182
Yeah, but she canonically couldn't even if she wanted to.

>>53647181
>D&D 5e Wiki, Homebrew Race
Nice. Next time look at original Greek mythology and OD&D for how the game views them.

>>53647116
I'm a, hoot.

>>53647239
But we're talking about 5e, not OD&D or mythology.

>>53647263
So...
https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/5e_SRD:Harpy
>Taking glee in suffering and death, the sadistic harpy is always on the hunt for prey. Its sweet song has lured countless adventurers to their deaths, drawing them in close for the harpy to kill and then consume.
>A harpy combines the body, legs, and wings of a vulture with the torso, arms, and head of a human. Its wicked talons and bone club make it a formidable threat in combat, and its eyes reflect the absolute evil of its soul.

If you take a step back and look at what you're doing, you're... essentially "taking the bait" here.

This is some "purify a succubus by righteous dickings" stuff.

>>53647263
5e is the culmination of D&D since it's inception. The Harpy in D&D was ripped from Greek myth and evolved over the course of the game.
The creature has changed somewhat, but not beyond it's Greek influence. I suggested the older editions to get a feel for where the creature was 30 years ago and how little it's changed today.

>>53647323
Yes, but this isn't an enemy harpy. It's currently an NPC harpy.

And it's all ultimately up to the DM. You're just being a fundamentalist stuck in the mud

>>53647323
>>53647331
This guy
>>53647358
Is right. That's an enemy harpy.

>>53647263
Listen, I admire your zeal, and as I said in an earlier post, if I were DM I'd let you guys try, given how strongly you feel about it. Just know you guys are playing with fire. By rights, this thing should try to kill you all...multiple times...and threaten unspeakable horror upon you during her "redemption".

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>>53647358
>stuck in the mud
Stick? Anyway, no. I'm being a realist, actually. But since you brought up "we're talking about D&D 5e, so I'm correct", I just had to remind you that, y'know, you're not. That logic doesn't actually make sense either; a harpy you're not currently fighting doesn't stop being, and I quote, a sadistic creature with eyes reflecting the absolute evil of its soul.

>>53647381
It's weakened and malnourished. It couldn't do that much.

>>53647385
I'm not even the guy you were talking to. I just showed up. This is my third post

>>53647390
The PCs want to teach it how to feed itself... It won't be malnourished for long

>>53647420
Still weak

>>53646005
>dumping her in the middle of nowhere after a sound ass-whooping.
>dumping her after ass-whooping.
>ass-whooping

No matter how righteous the paladin, it always boils down to slammin' that cloaca.

>>53643554
Why can't you just teach her Subtle Spell?
>When you cast a spell, you can spend 1 sorcery point to cast it without any somatic or verbal components.

Alternatively:
- Craft (or buy) a magic item that creates food
- Take her to a town and get her a job. She can fly, so she'd probably make a pretty damn good courier. Now she can buy food.
- Hire her as your mercenary. Pay her in food. Also, now you have a badass flying bag of claws to help fight, scout, deliver messages, etc.
- Teach her how to fish. Isn't there an old proverb about this problem?

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What if i find an unhatched harpy egg and just teach it my way of life?

>>53647800

That depends on whether you're a chaotic, murderous bastard or not.

>>53647581

The subtle spell idea is interesting, can that even be taught to a harpy? Worth looking into for sure. The town and fishing suggestings might be a bit hard because it's a desert and both water and people are fairly sparse. The magic food item could work, though it'd be hard to pull off. The mercenary idea might be viable.

>>53647800

Man, it's been a while since I've been to a save the princess thread.

Your best bet is to hire it as a merc and pay it in food. Frankly, it's nature is to lure, ambush and murder sentient creatures, and even if it learns to do otherwise, it will still very much enjoy taking lives. You can hope and wish and try as hard as you want but you cannot expect a predatory bird lady who hunts people to not be a predatory bird lady who hunts people. Let her be what she is, if you intend to let her live. You can teach her to do other things, like scout, but you have to realize that given the opportunity to kill, she will kill. Use that to your advantage, let her maul the shit out of things one in a while, and you'll have a fairly loyal ally.

Honestly, being a sneaky, sadistic murderer of men sounds a lot like being an adventurer, maybe without the sadism so much. Let her be your weapon, secure her trust with a supply of food, and perhaps you can slowly influence her to be more selective in the people she murders. Like Dexter or something, I dunno.

>>53655829

Ah, so sort of have her be the 'token evil' member, or something to that effect is what you're suggesting? A plausible angle, it all just depends on how the more good aligned members of the party would deal with that sort of situation. If she was never allowed to kill innocents then I could see that arrangement potentially working.

>>53647019

A girl version of bird person sounds pretty chill.

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>>53655829
>Capturing and mentally warping an evil entity into a merciless tool for use against evil
Now that's how to Chaotic Good if I ever saw it.

>>53660819
Does it still count as good if you are mentally warping something, even if it is an evil creature?

>>53663408
If the options are being smote or stop being a cunt, I think the warpee in question would see the warping as the good option for them.

>>53663612

I still feel like those are some limited options.

>>53644226
>Evil begets evil.
Preventing a serial killer from killing others is not evil, regardless of methodology.

>Kindness begets kindness.
Shes a serial killer & cannibal who just tried to murder and eat people. Her nature is clear, letting her live despite the crimes she has committed is spittig on the people who she has transgressed.

>The past is important to remember but the present can change the future.
Yeah, like letting her go and subsequently finding out that she continued murdering people? Or do you honestly think people have a moral obligation to not only prevent murderers from committing murder, but to take them as prisoners and responsibility for their moral development?

You're delusional.

>>53644611
>Not a jury. The harpy has rights as a living being.

Take it to the nearby village and let them decide what to do with it. They're the closest thing you're going to find to a jury if consensus is so important.

>>53666491
Limited options are generally the scope of what is available to murder birbs.