/srg/ - Shadowrun General

>>53621015
My mage was on a long-distance flight when terrorists tried to hijack it. I instantly leapt into action to be the hero, opening myself to the Astral and ready to hurl spells.
I forgot it was a suborbital flight.
We were at maximum altitude.
My mage slipped gracelessly into a coma and permanently lost a couple points of Willpower.

We have yet to have any truly catastrophic fuck ups, but it's only a matter of time.

Our opening mission involved stealing a crate from a shipping warehouse.
(We could have stolen it from the Yakuza en route to the warehouse, or a Knight Errant Team after it shipped, but the Warehouse was easiest.)

We scoped the place, we got in, hacked the systems, ID'd the crate, and even managed to slip our Infiltrator/Sniper into the warehouse to where the crate was.

Then we realised the crate was actually pretty fucking heavy, our Infiltrator could barely lift it, and our Troll was outside waiting in the van.

While we were arguing about this our Infiltrator got spotted, a firefight broke out, and we ended up with an Attack Helicopter on our asses, our Hacker (me) and Dumb Muscle arrested by the Star, and several high calibre rounds punched through the heavy, but apparently badly armoured crate full of valuable paracritter hides.

Since I'd stowed all my hacking gear and only had my (licensed) sidearm, and a dummy commlink on me, I got off pretty easy. The Dumb Muscle got all of his (unlicensed) weapons taken off him, a massive beating, then another massive beating because he had a forbidden weapon and thought that hiding it UNDER THE NEXT VEHICLE was secure.

Our cut from the run was drastically reduced to cover the damaged goods, and our bail money. It took us a few shitty runs to get off our Fixer's Shit List

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Post modern and futuristic hand cannons

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>>53621478

>>53618821
>By that logic, Second Skin would not be able to fit with anything.
>>53620847
>Second Skin is Zoe IIRC. CGL just fucked that part up.

Yup. Second Skin stacks with Executive Suite, Nightshade/Moonsilver, and Heritage. You can tell this by the way, after the list of Vashon Island armour, the next header is "ZOÉ", followed by a list of armour, which ends at "ARES VICTORY".

What are some naturally occurring toxins for chemglands? All I can think of is snake venom, which I can't find a price for.

>>53621503
Check Hard Targets for a list. 192-193.

>>53621634
*192-194

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>>53621488

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>>53621015

how does summoning or creating abominations that defy reality (like a giant crab/tank hybrid monster) work in shadow run 3rd edition?

besides it being a spirit wearing that shape, what are other ways to do it?

I have heard negative things reguarding 5th edition shadowrun. What edition would you recommend for someone new to shadowrun?

>>53621974
5th edition.

>>53621974
Probably 5th.

>>53621974
5th Edition is Best Edition!

>>53621974
5e hands down.

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>>53621974

5th Edition. The editing is absolute shit, but once you figure out that most tests are just Attribute + Attribute vs Threshold, you'll be fine.

>>53621901
>how does summoning or creating abominations that defy reality (like a giant crab/tank hybrid monster) work in shadow run 3rd edition?
>besides it being a spirit wearing that shape, what are other ways to do it?

same but for 4th instead of 3rd

>>53622043
>Attribute + Skill
I got you mate.

>>53621974
To add on to what everyone else is saying, with the exception of editing, any complaint you had with 5e is going to be found about the same or worse in some other edition.

So it's all a matter of what thing worries you the most and then choosing the edition that does that least bad.

Like to have easy choice as to metatype? Go back to 1e and hope the dice don't give your sammy a serious allergy to his chrome, guns, and armor.

Want a better explained and imagined Matrix. Go 3e or 4e. But in 3e it's basically its own game, and in 4e its all scripts all the time. And both are slower than in 5e.

>>53622101
>>53622037
>>53622034
>>53622022
>>53622014
I stand corrected! Thank you for your input, I'm excited to play this game

>>53622154
5E is not the best, but it's the edition most people play, and thus are more likely to be able to answer questions about.

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>>53622067

Thanks Senpai, you're alright

Don't go to the Stuffer Shack Tomorrow

>>53622154
You aren't exactly "corrected", necessarily, some of the bad things you've heard about 5 may well be true (particularly if you were warned about shoddy editing), but it still probably is the best edition to play if your group isn't heavily entrenched in a previous edition.
Be sure to use Chummer, it'll help counteract some of the editing issues.

>>53621015
Been out of the loop a while, so at what level of Magicrun are we at now? Full-blown fuck-the-muggles-magic-will-always-rule-forever-and-ever or is there a better balance between mundane and magic?

>>53622219
Full blown fuck the muggles.

There's now a drug/reagent that lets mages nullify physical drain.

It's made from adept veins, but it's only 14R so..yeah. CGL is still going on magewankery.

I'm a touch confused on how selecting a class works?
It just has a huge block of stats and things but it tells you how to generate those stats in the chapter previous?

Do you just take that statblock?

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>>53622266

"Its cool officer, these Magically Refined Veins of a magical Metaperson? I've got a doctor's note for them"

vs

"OH FUCK HE'S GOT HOLLOW POINT BULLETS IN HIS DERRINGER TAKE HIM DOWN BOYS"

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>>53621478

>>53622380
Yep. Basically.

>>53622375
Those are example characters, for when you need a character right now and can't be assed going through the entire chargen chapter.

>>53622154
One thing you may want to do (that >>53622204 reminded me of) is look at older editions for bits of fluff and info.

Too much of 5e (and some of 4e) is written assuming that you already know stuff. Like what ASIST is, as an example.

>>53622380
Not quite. So far the true reagent needed for it is not known. So as far as most of anyone making the laws knows, it's perfectly legal.

But that's very likely to change once the secret gets out. And that will also make it harder to get.

>>53622101
Speaking of older editions, are Explosive and EX-Ex rounds better in 1e-3e, where they're +1/2 to Power, and have Barrier rating fuckery and a possibility to explode, or in 4e-5e, where they're +X to DV, -X to AP?

>>53622266
Why did I ever even expect any better? The magic bias was always clear and at some point, they'll just chuck the normies in the bin or simply relegate them to cheerleader/spectator/npc status

>>53622463
Nothing a bunch of bullets can't solve.

>>53622462
In 1e it doesn't matter too much as the staging attribute of the gun matters a bit more. It's why I've heard light pistols were so scary in 1e.

In 2e, I don't really know much other than staging's gone.

In 3e, it's really useful for the extremes of power. On a low power gun, it might mean that the target doesn't count 2s as successes. On a high power gun, it might make the success number high enough that only a tank has any real chance of making it.

So it really depends on the target's armor set-up because that determines what number they need to roll to start staging down damage code.

>>53615395
Because he gassed us with Neurostun IX last run, and I'd rather that not happen again.

>>53622534
>On a high power gun, it might make the success number high enough that only a tank has any real chance of making it.
>EX-Ex in a Ranger Arms SM-3
>damage code is now 16S

>>53622554
Catsuit.

>>53621015
How big is too big for your female Shadowrunner's tits?

>>53622488
I'm confident they'll release an anti-bullet spell soon enough, and I'm not even joking. We all know where this road leads to.

>>53622606
Depends on what role they're filling.

>>53622608
You mean like Physical Barrier?

>>53622653
One that'll be body-conforming, moves with the mage, makes them immune to bullets and is long-lasting as well as easy to cast.

>>53622587
Yeah. Even in heavy security armor with a helmet, you're going to need to roll a lot of 8s to stage down the damage.

So hopefully they didn't get more than two successes, or you're probably done for.

>>53622699
So either a pact for Immunity to normal weapons, or heavy cheeze on an armor or combat sense spell?

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So, how do you build a burnout adept? Moreover, why?

>>53622699
So...body armor?

Looks like it'll be the end of the gentleman's agreement not to spam grenades. And then the end of the game.

Even CGL won't be retarded enough to kill their cash cow. They can't embezzle what they don't get.

>>53622715
>a lot of 8s
My 3rd's rusty, but I thought you had to actually beat or equal the Power to start staging down damage.

>>53622606
Any bigger than twice the size of her head is questionable.

>>53622699

Bullet Immunity: Drain is equal to force, each point of force negates a single bullet. Duration is a number of hours equal to its force

>>53622745
Power - Applicable armor. That heavy setup has 8 points of ballistic armor, so you 'only' need to roll a pair of eight or betters on your modified Body+applied Combat Pool of d6es to stage it down.

Granted, for that thing it's better to try putting lots of your combat pool into dodging because that's going to be a lower target number on the dice, so it helps stage down faster. On the flip side, you also usually have no base dice there, so.

>>53622627
Huge tits are great for smuggling stuff. Especially binary explosives.

>>53622728
In 5e the only reason is if in game you suffered damage that cost essence to fix. Otherwise there is no reason other than fluff.

>>53622606
Depends on metavariant and role, Keep in mind your average shadowrunner is probably gonna wrap them up while on the job and wear a good bra otherwise. All my female runners spring for nice underwear so they can be comfortable.
A troll or something you could go as big or bigger than a watermelon, Elves you wont wanna go much more than an apple.

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>>53622606
Considering the availability, ease, and how innocuous Sixth World cosmetic surgery is, I can handwave almost anything and I expect any sensible GM to do so too.

>>53622803
That's honestly kind of useless, given that even a long burst or short FA tosses out six bullets.

>>53621974
I'm going to be a contrarian fuccboi and recommend 3rd Edition. 3e remembered it was the future 80s

>>53622728
Type-0
Biocompatability Bioware
Burnout Bioware
All standard = Delta
-20% ess cost
boom, Burnout.

Hey ya'll, just curious but does the Drake quality not add an extra point of MAG if you are already a mage/adept/whatever?

>>53622875
Huge tits are insanely impractical for most shadow runners to have.
They do a lot of running, Its in the job description, And huge tits will knock you out or fuck up your back or just generally get in the way.
Get that adept power that lets you sculpt your body and make em bigger or smaller at will.

Got drafted to 4e.
Never played 4e before, Am very used to 5e.
I want to be the king of the rhumba beatandbythatImeanuseexplosives, what shit should I pay attention to?

>>53622907
Dynamic tit-growth is one area in which ware matches magic in terms of power, actually!

>>53622380
>"OH FUCK HE'S GOT HOLLOW POINT BULLETS IN HIS DERRINGER TAKE HIM DOWN BOYS"
Not really. Illegal bullets is something they find after the fact, and add to the list of charges. Unless you left the wireless for the bullets on. Then the first patrol flips you.

>>53622444
>The adept community fnds the rise in demand for their body parts for alchemical experimentation abhorrent. They actively seek out those who would use such things for their own particular brand of revenge

>>53622907
Unless a game goes full on FATAL and has mechanics that measure and penalize characters for breast size then it should have no impact aside from in-character narrative fluff.

>>53622875
Sure, but if they're Corruption of Champions big, they're not gonna be practical to take on a run.

>>53622916
Make an adept, Go 6 points into Demolitions, Then get Improved Skill: Demolitions x6 and pump up LOG
If done right you should have 20-22 Demolitions dice, You can take brand loyalty and use Commercial Explosives.

This is as close to Cuban Pete as you'll probably get. Get LOG boosting 'ware if it its more effecient than a point of magic. I don't actually remember what they are called to check right now.

>>53622973
Yeah. But it's not quite known that Drain Away is the specific compound that's needing Adept Veins.

Just that some really dark dreckheads are using bits of Adept for things. That getting out into more meaningful hands will probably raise it from the baseline of 14R.

>>53622976
The DM should be adequately punishing you for having beachballs strapped to your chest while trying to fire a gun or swing a sword.
And good luck getting properly fitted armor.

>>53622988
I'll defend big anime tiddies until the GM starts invoking penalties. And by then I'm probably quitting the game due to GM faggotry. If the buxom lass is a liability to the team then the troll and ork aren't coming either because they might trip over their massive dicks when it comes time to run escape the scene of the crime.

>>53623039
But huge breasts IRL actually cause serious issues and are generally annoying Anon.
A big dick is at worst just making it hard to get laid.

>>53622728
Ware is much more effective at granting bonuses to agility and strength, both of which can be easily fit in 1 ESS if you have cash.

If you mean full burnout instead of just a bit of ware, cyborgs are cool. Just slap a bunch of chrome onto your adept.

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>>53622907
>>53622988
>>53623037
>>53623053
I'll meet you half way on this. Large tits fall under the Adiposis negative quality.

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>>53622800
This is true for any setting, the absolute most you're going to see on a woman before things get stupid is pic related.

>>53623039
If your dick is big enough to trip over and you decided to describe that to the group, I'm going to have you roll to not trip over that shit when running for your life while under fire.

Asking me to do anything else is asking me to be unfaithful to the fiction you established.

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>>53623118
Shit man, I wouldn't even be mad. It'd give me something to green text about in /srg/ if nothing else.

>>53622976
>Unless a game goes full on FATAL and has mechanics that measure and penalize characters for breast size then it should have no impact aside from in-character narrative fluff

Any character that insists on having large breasts are also going to be expected to provide reasons they can operate without the girls getting in the way. It could be as simple as chest bindings or as complex as some freaky detachable-tits (these are my "working girl", these are my "fun bags", etc) but opening Pandora's Box means the player is now required to close it.

Oh my god why am I actually getting interested in figuring out the cost of detachable tits.

>>53623022
Cereberal Booster R2 gets you an extra point at the cost of a MAG, Add Genetic Optimization for LOG and you'll get 3 for the price of one.
If your DM lets you start with more than 25 karma of qualities you can get exceptional attribute LOG too, Otherwise either pop the +3 LOG drug or consider attribute boost. With enough effort you'll be able to roll 25ish dice with your explosives, Enough to theoretically deal like 30dv with your explosives or something.

>>53623115
Even that is seriously pushing it for a Shadowrunner Anon, Big tits are a fucking annoyance. There's a reason breast reduction surgery is a thing.
>>53623118
Bigdickproblems
>>53623162
I gotta agree that if you are describing your tits as that huge you damn well better believe you're gonna get penalties for some actions. It ain't fatal, its roleplaying.
Also I think theres a bodyware that would cover detactable tits but I cant remember its name.

>>53623247
>Even that is seriously pushing it for a Shadowrunner Anon

Agreed, I was just using that pic as an example of the universal maximum you could go before any character will just look stupid.

I'll never understand people's thought processes on how bigger is better means the tits gotta be as big as their body.

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>>53623162
>Any character that insists on having large breasts are also going to be expected to provide reasons they can operate without the girls getting in the way.

Why does the idea of large breasts not getting in the way, out of all the hundreds of ridiculous things in Shadowrun (both in-universe and game mechanics-wise) break suspension of disbelief?

>>53621015
Is that Larkin Love?

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>>53623162
>>53623247
Just do like comic book and spy heroines and cram 'em into a partially-zipped catsuit.

>>53623288
Because huge knockers is something people deal with in the real world, it's something we see and for some of us deal with on a daily basis. We don't have magic or cybernetics (yet), but we do know what tits like >>53623115 do to a woman trying to be all high-intensity athletics and the results aren't pretty.

Verisimilitude is the word we're looking for here. Megacorporations and dragons are fantastical and thus don't trigger our, "hey, that don't real" brain bits, but big fat tits slapped on a Street Samurai who's expected to do a lot of legwork? That's going to confuzzle folk.

>>53623336
>Tfw your funbags are so huge your fullbody suit doesn't actually fit properly
>tfw you get shot in the chest

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Seeing as we're on lewd but serious topics, can you fuck a spirit? Would you?

>>53623352
And one can't use their imagination to put huge breasts in the same category as dragons and magic?

>>53623361
Some of them probably, Probably not.
>>53623352
Do keep in mind that a lot of the people here actually have no idea about breasts in a real sense and think Hitomi J-Cup could jog a mile just fine without getting knocked unconcious or breaking her back.

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>>53623358
>>53623336

A Shadowrunner that can't zip up her catsuit due to the size of her tits needs to do a better job stuffing her tits in there.

Besides, it makes her unzipping the catsuit to seduce or put the moves on a fellow chummer is way hotter than them always being out.

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>>53623380
Not if they have autism.

>>53623380
>And one can't use their imagination to put huge breasts in the same category as dragons and magic?

Well, no. Because huge tits exist and are fairly common in the real world.

>>53623361
This reminds me of the time in this thread I was asking what a good reward would be for a spirit to offer the party if they chased down her absentee boyfriend for her.

The thread decided the appropriate reward would be asking for sexual favors.

Which led to a humorous exchange about whoever asked for that now has a dependent quality that if they do not follow through on, will result in an angry lady spirit showing up mid stealth run and demanding you deal with her needs.

>>53623386
>Tfw the street sam is staying over at your place recovering from gunshot wounds and unwraps her chest and it turns out shes got huge breasts
>Now shes sleeping topless on your couch
>Tfw you're just a beta decker so you don't say anything

>>53623385
Well, she can. A mile is an incredibly short distance, even for a J-cup or obese man.

>>53623022
>>53623186
Slight problem. It's street scum.

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>>53623389
I forgot where I was for a moment. Thank you for the reminder.

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>>53623421
Thanks anon, you're triggering my memories of a tomboy friend that used to do this.

>>53623288
There's a difference between literally ignoring something obvious, and accepting an internally-consistent fictional element that has no obvious and immediate impossibilities to it.

"My character falls through the floor for no particular reason" is not the same as "My character falls through the floor by casting a spell of etherealness on himself."
Both are fiction, one is believable and the other is not.

Furthermore, deep down you knew that already back when you wrote your post.

>>53623444
>not bagging the tomboy
I should behead you for not grasping this golden and rare opportunity.

>>53623457
>Implying I didn't

>>53623422
Sorry /fit/, on /tg/ a mile is some kind of unbreakable barrier.

>>53623421
If you're a decker you don't gotta say shit. Just assume direct control over their wireware and make 'em tittyfuck you like they want it.

>>53623481
Oh, nevermind then.
I will behead you out of jealousy now. But now it's a beheading that you get to feel good about.
I can't even FIND a tomboy, much less make moves on one.

>>53623451
But surely a busty woman being athletic or agile, as improbable as it may be, is not so far removed from reality that a player/GM cannot just ignore it in the name of fun?

>>53623380
>>53623389
People can get real weird about sudden arbitrary realism for things, especially if it's against something they suspect someone might be getting off to.

Like I saw someone here once that was just stupid livid at the idea of someone's D&D monk being barefoot, saying that brambles and briars and caltrops and shit absolutely needed to be out in full force to discourage them. I mean, I get not wanting to people to go all Magical Realm on you, but goddamn.

>>53623022
um, big problem here.
it's street level and

>>53623536
They can only ignore it if they don't have autism.
So, not around here.

>>53623536
>is not so far removed from reality that a player/GM cannot just ignore it in the name of fun?

Nobody's saying you can't have busty women doing athletic or agile things. We're saying the player/GM can not and should not ignore it.

And why should you ignore it? Going out shopping for sports bras is fun.

>>53623536
Anon, The issue is were not talking about believable levels of boobage, Were talking big fat troll tits on a human while doing cartwheels and shit.
Its just silly and completely ruins immersion to imagine someone with tits the size of beachballs running around trying to look down a gun with them in the way.

>>53623594
It doesn't ruin the immersion if you don't have autism, anon. That's the point here.

>people bitching about immersion
You know what really breaks my immersion?
Essence.
That is NOT how cybernetics work in real life.

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>>53623594
If boobs ruin someone's immersion then I have bad news for them.

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>>53623601
>>53623562

>Caring about the internal consistency of your game-night fun-times is autism

Nigga we're throwing dice at a table and playing fantasy operators when we could be out poisoning our livers. Using the autism defense is not going to work here.

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>>53623629
Is it?

>>53623620
Honestly, the whole essence thing is about ten thousand times more disruptive than boobies to immersion.
Especially with how much it disagrees with real life, and how invasive it is to the setting.

>>53623629
Some of us try to play these things without being autistic about it, anon. If we were being autistic about it, we couldn't play shadowrun because essence.

>>53623594
>not dusting the floors with your pink mohawk as you cartwheel through bullets while your humongous tits bounce around

I mean, to each their own, but I don't think you're living life to the fullest.

>>53623620
Essence is actually kind of super offensive to anyone who knows shit about cybernetics or interacts with people who have cybernetics or has cybernetics.

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>>53623643
>mfw huge tits on a Shadowrunner is no bueno
>mfw the lifestyle supports sculpting a fantastic booty

>>53623620
>>53623674
Essence makes complete sense in the setting though, it's like you got all this soul juice in your noggin and cutting out bits of the body cuts out bits of the soul. It's a finite resource and you don't wanna lose it all.

>Tfw all these people not realizing massive tits are basically just Gel Packs for your body
>Free armor

>>53623713
That is NOT how it works in real life, and breaks my immersion.
Thankfully, I'm not autistic, and I can put that aside for a fun game. Can you?

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>>53623726
Don't be a prick.

>>53623726
It is how it works in the setting though.
Gravity doesn't however work differently, So huge boob cartwheels are still immersion breaking.

>>53623713
Cutting off bits of the body doesn't cut off bits of the soul though.
It's only adding the life saving cybernetics that cut down on discomfort, phantom limb syndrome, and body issue based suicides that damage your soul.
SHAME on those cybernetic hoodlums, trying to recover from that fatal accident.

>>53623726
You're kind of being unreasonable here, Essence being a "scoop out the soul and replace it with beep boops" makes sense in the context of magic being, well, connected to the soul, along with all the thematic bullpoop you can bring up in relation to a character losing their Essence.

Meanwhile you're getting super angry at the idea a woman with watermelon-sized tits can't have them flop around while she does a cartwheel.

>>53623738
Why don't you tell that to
>>53623739
over here, who is so intent on breaking my immersion with his unrealistic, offensive cybernetics system?
Honestly, cybernetics should allow you to recover essence, if we were going by how the world of shadowrun would play out if it wanted to make sense and not break immersion.

>>53623740
They avoid this by saying that cybernetics that don't go beyond your original functionality, and if you lost your limbs without any intent, you don't lose essence. Essence is "aware", in so much as it's a reflection. If you willfully go beyond your born abilities than you start to lose essence.

How that interacts with different grades of bonelacing and other stuff is beyond me.

>>53623762
Magic, obviously.

>>53623751
I'm not angry about boobs, I'm angry that essence has constantly been the biggest problem with shadowrun's system and lore, often used as a handwave for when they don't actually want to explain anything, and it is the most immersion breaking shit ever that I just have to ignore.

And you guys run into something SIGNIFICANTLY less immersion breaking, and you are throwing a fucking fit.

If you are throwing a fit over something so minor, why should I not throw a constant neverending fit over this huge problem in the setting?

>>53623739
>It is how it works in the setting though.

And that is how boobs are handled in the setting. Runners can do flips, cartwheels, and empty a rifle into a target just fine regardless of the character's breast size because in the setting, they don't matter and have no bearing on your dice pool unless you do what >>53623114 said and fluff it as the Adiposis quality, a game mechanic that does have actual bearing on the rules in regard to the setting.

>>53623762
So FUCK people who have glasses, then? Or who ride cars? Or who wear exo suits?

>>53623740
>>53623762

Personally, I've always seen Essence loss as a sort of feedback error in your spirit. Like, you've got this body, right? And you've got this full-body aura of the body along with it. You chop off a bit and your aura's just missing the arm, the reflection ain't ruined it's just got less bits.

But then you jam a fancy bronze-plated gizmothing on that arm and your aura is going, "What the fuck is this thing? My soulself is missing an arm, but my bodyself has an arm." The more you lose the angrier your soul gets until it just ups and quits.

In-setting, no matter how large your boobs are, they have no effect on gameplay.
If you are changing that but not changing essence, not only are you autistic, but you are a hypocrite.

Essence makes no fucking sense as a system even in universe, and is there only for game balance. Trying to argue otherwise for any edition beyond maybe the original is being willfully ignorant at this point.

>>53623805
Essence knows where your body starts and stops. More than that, it defines where it starts and stops. It's also more complicated than just your biology. Getting gender reassignment doesn't hurt your essence.

Which leads me to believe that if you really, really, want it you can just will yourself not to have essence loss.

>>53623788
How should replacing parts of your body with superhuman cybernetics affect your capability to do magic, in order to not break your immersion?

>>53623799
Anon you're reaching pretty hard and making a lot of assumptions there.

>>53623839
>Having massive bodily changes doesn't hurt your essence
>except it does
This essence shit isn't even the same from operation to operation. Total immersion ruiner.

>>53623788
>>53623835

These gripes over Essence is leading me to believe you are in fact the person who has autism, not us, because Essence is kind of a simple thing to understand if you get mystical about it (which you're supposed to, god dammit.)

>>53623857
I'd say you're reaching, since you can't actually find a boob penalty in the books.

>>53623866
Like I said, if you guys get to be autistic about boobs, I get to be autistic about essence.
I only choose not to out of good graces to you guys for choosing also to not be autistic.

If I can suspend your disbelief for a system put in place entirely for game balance that fucks over the lore every single edition, you can suspend it for pretty much anything else.

>>53623857
How exactly am I reaching? There is no rule about boobs and how they affect what you are capable of.

>>53623874
And you can't find somewhere that says you can have beachballs strapped to your chest while aiming down sights and running around.
Hell find some official art that supports your idea that streetsams can have massive tits without issue.

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>>53623739
>>53623751
Comics and anime and movies and basically every medium since forever have had women with unrealistic physiques doing physical stuff with no issues because it's fiction. Why is this such a sticking point for you?

>>53623901
Man there was a recently highly selling shadowrun vidyagame where the street sam wore no bra and a simple tank top with above modest breasts.

>>53623901
>Find official art

Now who is reaching?

>>53623903
Its an issue for me there too. Shadowrun shouldn't take inspiration from anime and only some inspiration from comics.

>>53623901
So you are telling me you can't find any rule stating big boobs cause penalties, and you are doing it entirely for autism?
Because by redirecting like this, you are telling me that is the case.

>>53623925
Who? I don't recall anyone with beachball tits in the Shadowrun returns games.
>>53623938
Okay Anon.
Find me a rule that says gravity is down.
I can do it too.

>>53623932
>shadowrun shouldn't take inspiration from anime
Shadowrun was fucking based on a future where japan took over and draws from a huge pile of anime influences.
The money is called nuyen.

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>>53623932
>Shadowrun shouldn't take inspiration from anime and only some inspiration from comics.

No offense, but you're the worst human being imaginable.

>>53623957
>>53623955
Have you seen modern Anime?

>>53623951
So you are telling me there are no rules for your boob autism, and you are still trying to redirect?
And I guess you didn't even play shadowrun returns.

>>53623951
What does gravity have anything to do with your argument. Nobody is arguing about gravity.

>it's a my opinions > your opinions episode
Goddamn /srg/ why can't you just accept that people like different things in their make believe games?

>>53623969
Were you alive during the era in which shadowrun was made?
Do you not remember the SICK CYBERPUNK ANIME craze?

>>53623925
Not that I think it has any relevance to the topic (since the artistic decisions of video game companies have nothing to do with verisimilitude or game feel in a tabletop RPG) but who are you talking about?
It's not Eiger (wears armor) or Glory (does not have large breasts), and it's obviously none of the SR:Hong Kong cast... So... Who?

>>53623979
His argument is that since there's not a rule about it, it doesn't matter, So I told him to show me the rule that says gravity is down, Its the same situation. Common sense.

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>>53623901

>>53623999
Glory's got pretty big honkers if you're talking about being realistic with no sports bra.

>>53624001
Well, there are fall damage rules.
There's no "your boobs are too big" rules.
That is a rule only some kind of fetishistic autist would even imagine.
This isn't FATAL, anon. Stop treating it like it is.

>>53624002
That's a horny college student, not a Runner.

>>53624002
Anon, That's a troll. And looks to be a student, not a samurai.
As far as trolls go she isn't even oversized, That's average-above average at most.
>>53624021
Stop inserting your fetish into the game and we wont have to even have this discussion Anon.

>>53623726
>That is NOT how it works in real life,
Yeah, souls don't exist.

>>53623901
Translating what's happening in the fiction so that it fits the harder game mechanics, is a fundamental defining aspect of all tabletop RPGs.
If the fiction could never influence the mechanics, it would be a board game.

There's no rule that says gluing your shoes the floor should immobilize you either.
Yet, it does, until you take the fucking shoes off.

There's no rule that says if your character drinks bleach, they'll be hurt by it.
But it damn well should, because you're playing a fucking tabletop RPG.

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Why is everyone getting so riled up over a discussion you would and should make with your group if a party member ever brings in an exceptionally-chested woman?

>>53624028
Why are you trying to insert your boob inconvenience fetish into good campy fun?

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>>53624008
Your fond memories are doing her favors in the boob size department, buddy.

>>53624031
...There's no rule that says your tits being massive gets in the way of actions, Yet it does, Until you wrap them up.

>>53624042
Because they're being autistic about something incredibly minor, so I get to be autistic too.
It's only fair.
If they don't like it, they can stop being autistic about something incredibly minor.
>>53624031
There actually are rules saying gluing shoes to the floor immobilizes you, as that is an item you can buy.

>>53624056
Yeah, that's too big to realistically not be wearing a sports bra if you are going into combat.

>>53624028
You can't just vilify everything you don't like as fap bait. Just because a character has large breasts doesn't mean the character is meant as masturbatory material by the player. That is like saying every ripped male is fetish material.

>>53624061
That is indeed my point, yes.

Guys, ignore the people saying the boobs will be inconveniencing, they are just fetish fags from
>>>/d/7378183
trying to insert their shit into your game.

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>>53624042

>>53624082
>That is like saying every ripped male is fetish material.

Are you saying they aren't?

>>53624086
So uh, You're making my point to me?
>>53624082
Again, were not talking about /large/ breasts were talking about huge honking oversized completely impractical breasts, Which is definitely magical realm or a really stupid joke at best.
>>53624080
They are made of metal anon.

>>53624096
It's really obvious too, since the pro-tits guys said "large" and the anti-tits guys took it to fetishistic extremes like "watermellon" and "beachball" sized.

>>53624112
Metal means that she would need a back brace.
Which is not one of her augments.

Stop trying to insert your extreme expansion and inconvenience fetishes into the game. Your hyperbole does you no benefit here.

>>53624031

For shit like 'big tits get in the way' as a mechanic, I'd just shoe-horn in the Aspect system from FATE.

>'Your character COULD succeed in their mission and get away scot free, but there's a juicy Edge point in it for you if your tits trip you up and get you caught.'

>>53624112
>Again, were not talking about /large/ breasts were talking about huge honking oversized completely impractical breasts

"Large" and "oversized" is an arbitrary description that varies from person to person.

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>>53624132
Anon, Its a cybertorso, its all metal as far as I can tell.

>>53622396
>17mm shell

wut?

>>53624096
Ah, that explains it.

>>53624080
First of all; I emphatically disagree with your post, which puts us at an impasse if we are to pretend that she actually has breasts.

However, if you have a close look you'll notice that it's fairly likely they aren't actually breasts, but just a shapely skin-colored cyberware chassis or subdermal armor plating.
Given Glory's backstory and the artistic choices for her art, I'd be surprised if grabbing her tit would result in anything but your fingertips bouncing off a hard surface with an unsatisfying clanking noise.

>>53624159
That's just where her arms are mounted.
She doesn't actually have the cybertorso implant.

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>>53624115
The post that started this retardation was specifically stat penalties for huge tits.
If the pro-tits guys are just saying large, then why are they even arguing?

>>53624177
Because the pro-tits guys assume realistic levels of huge tits, wheras the anti-tit guys are fetishists who assume watermelon and beachball sized ones.
This causes conflict.

>>53624155
Its not really that complicated.
>>53623115
Is believable, She would have some trouble but if she were fit enough and kept them under control they would be fine.
>>53622875
Is not, She could not be doing shadowrunner things with tits like that without some real difficulty. Maybe face things but not streetsam things.

>>53623502
>I can't even FIND a tomboy
Try your local hardware store.

>>53623389
>AUGS and mages not SINs and Wages ok.


>>53623643
who be she?

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BREAST IMPLANTS
Old-fashioned gelpacks surgically inserted remain in high demand, even today. Materials used are generally safe (unless they burst), recovery times are brief, and prices are low low low. Bodyshops all across the world make a killing off these things. Sold singly, but you probably want a pair.
Breast Implants 2.0: For those who change their
looks as often as they change their underwear, modern science has stepped up and given us new breast-tech, allowing the owner to adjust to whatever size they want. Hidden gel reserves and reflexive synthskin allow for any size from A to double-D, changeable with a simple
wireless command. Ta-da!
Wireless Bonus: The user may change the size of
their implants as a Free Action, instead of a Simple Action

Straight out of Chrome Flesh.

>>53624199
The first one you posted that is believable has larger tits than the one you said was unbelievable, you weird-ass fetishist.

The second one has a bad case of deflated tits.

>>53624192
So both sides are just retarded because they can't read well enough to see that they're not even arguing the same point?
Good to know this place is still business as usual.

>>53624112
>>53624177
Ultimately, it should be blindingly obvious that excessively big boobs (or a huge floppy leg-sized wang) CAN AND WILL cause trouble.
That's a basic aspect of how tabletop RPGs function.

It's nearly just as obvious, at least to me, that the person who makes the call as to when big is debilitatingly big, is the DM.

And said DM would be a fucking jackass if he didn't mention that when the tiddymonster player brings it up during character creation.

So; yeah, what's even left to argue about?

I guess we could try to create some sort of consensus based on a boob size chart.

>>53624214
Huh, I don't see a single penalty there for big breasts.

>>53624216
Anon can you not see the massive shadow below the tits in number two?
>>53624229
Anon...The people arguing about huge tits aren't talking DD, We've been over this so many times already.

>>53624224
You know what I find incredibly poetic?

This entire argument started over a picture of spilled milk.

>>53623807
The version I subscribe to describes Essence as glue. Your physical and astral selves need something to remain bound together, and Essence is what does the job. The more you install, the more Essence fritters away, and the looser the connection between the two, until you die. Or someone uses cybermancy to horribly staple your shit back together.

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>>53624254

>>53624248
Funny, I don't see any mention of penalties for large breasts, REGARDLESS of how large you make them with the implant.

>>53623643
One thing you might not notice in this picture is that her spine is augmented.
You can tell because she is able to twist her neck around until her chin us behind her neck.

She may also have wired reflexes if her spine is an augment.

watch out.

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>>53624254
What I find incredibly poetic is that this is the liveliest Shadowrun thread I've seen in weeks.

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Shadowrun actually has something of a history of characters with tits that would, realistically, be a problem in their profession not even wearing bras.

Even something as small as a B or C cup gets women complaining if you don't let them support that shit.

>>53624229
Because you are not playing a board game and so, it would be unnecessary.

Your GM's job is to translate the fiction of the game world into mechanical effects whenever it seems logical to do so.
So if you never end up in a situation where they're in the way, you won't see any penalties. But when such a situation occurs, your GM will do his job and make a ruling at that time.

Have you never actually played a ttrpg before?

>>53624270
Thats because the implant is capped at DD which is large but not enough to cause major issues short term.

>>53624287
In any TTRPG I played, if you tried to make rules for how large a character's tits are, you would be viewed as a weird-ass fetishist.

>>53624293
DD is 100% large enough to cause major issues short term, though, realistically.
Which is the entire problem here, isn't it?

>>53624282
That's pretty normal.
Threads trundle along at a decent pace until someone flips out, 0.5-3 threads are lost to mindless shitposting, then it's back to slow.

>>53624164
Note that the pistol somehow has a five-round magazine. Or chamber, as they've written, which may mean that it's the Walch pistol, 17 mm cartridge edition. Also note that the 17 mm cartridge is a rifle round.

>>53624170
>with an unsatisfying clanking noise
Unsatisfying for you, maybe. I'll be in my bunk.

>>53624282
>What I find incredibly poetic is that this is the liveliest Shadowrun thread I've seen in weeks.

And I would trade it all for a slow-ass thread that wasn't filled with autists. Swear to god I liked this game more before /srg/ was a thing.

>>53624248
Deflated tits can cast shadows, anon.
Especially if you are pushing them up.
Trust me, I know old people.

>>53623336
And some people don't believe the 90s were great years.

>>53624342
I bow to your superior experience with old people tits, But still argue that the second is much larger regardless.

>>53624339
Well, some of us can turn the autism off to enjoy a game, at least.

>>53624313
I'm just happy that it didn't involve me, this time.

>>53624283
Fake boobs can be any consistency. If a shadowrunner gets implants, I wager they're probably gonna be less floppy than real boobs tend to be.

That said, at some point it's just aesthetics over survival. Big ol' pink mohawks aren't exactly practical in a firefight when you're trying not to catch bullets with your skull either. Try to take cover behind anything that's not enormous, and the enemy can de-brain you straight through the furniture.

How often do you people play notably busty characters, and make it a point to say so?

>>53624362
Honestly, like 95% of the shadowrun setting is hugely immersion breaking even within its own setting and is there for the purposes of game balance or good old fun.

You have to learn to, uh, what was it. Fuck. There was a term for seeing something breaks immersion, but not letting it get to you.

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>>53624355
With pic related maybe.

>>53624383
Verisimilitude? You can ignore the large things but the small things bother you.

>>53624387
What kinda essence cost is there for having a handle attached to your spine like that?

>>53624392
No, no, shadowrun has like no verisimilitude, that's the entire problem.

Suspension of disbelief, I think it was?

>>53624362
It's the old Cyberpunk credo: Style over Substance.

>>53624416
And cyberpunk likes BIG FAT TITS.

>>53624339
>liked this game more before /srg/ was a thing.
Because cynical, ironic, and general shitfucker-posting is the most accepted (that is; least hated) form of communication on 4chan, you'll find, for example, that there is no board that hates anime more efficiently than /a/.
This goes for other boards as well (basically, any board where they're not too busy jacking off to post), and also goes for general threads.

If you want to keep enjoying your hobbies, you'll have to learn to limit your exposure to 4chan, and also to actively work with your mind to mitigate said exposure's effects on you.

4chan will turn you into a hateful cynical ironic creature. A wretched shell of a man.
In other words, essence loss.

>>53624401
It's probably just attached to the outside and pops right on or off. Would that even have an essence cost?

>>53624425
>>53624416
This may very well be the genre convention, but my next female runner char is gonna be streamlined as fuck

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>>53624387
Completely fucking unrealistic, its impossible to function with a pair like that, expect major agility penalties if you bring that shit to my table

I don't understand how she can stand on those little blade legs

>>53624401
None, a Drag Handle on your little Unitard and you're good to go

>>53624464
Ain't nothing wrong with a lithe woman, I respect and admire all shapes and sizes besides fatties, fuck 'em.

>>53624425
Especially when they're filled with anti-ballistic gel or medical nanites.

>>53624501
>wanna see how I got the handle Camel?

>>53624501
>not wearing fake boobs made of explosive to plant on targets of opportunity
It's like you don't even flat-but-compensating, anon.

>>53624409
You want me to suspend disbelief, yeah.

I'm fine running the game with a little more realism to it though. If someone wears a pink mohawk it's because they're so fucking crazy and drunk on youth or anarchy that they don't actually give a fuck about whether they live or die.

If someone has comically huge tatas, they're either stupid, or weighed their pros and cons and made a choice.

In both cases, I feel like that's almost sort of subconsciously what we were already associating with those kinds of characters.

It's very rare that there's any actual reason to suspend disbelief, if you just work WITH the fiction instead of against it.

>>53624532
If you are working with the fiction, you don't actually give the guy a penalty to being in cover for having a mohawk, anon.

>>53621015
>larkin will never get pregnant and do pregnant porn

though, maybe it's a good thing because it would probably be a back baby

>>53624416
On that note, its why operatorfags in Shadowrun annoy me so much. Regardless if the game is Black Trenchcoat or Pink Mohawk, there is some semblance of stylistic themes that are just inherent in the game's universe and represented in the game's mechanics. But operators go so far past Black Trenchcoat into relentless simulationist territory that the game loses its charm amidst autistic number crunching and overly strict adherence to the Navy SEALs playbook.

>>53624543
If I didn't, I would be ignoring the details established within the fiction.

>>53624309
>reasonable posts ignored completely

>>53624545
Porn stars can't have babies anyway, if they could they would've gotten knocked up years ago.

It's why modern women who've been on heavy birth control since puberty are suddenly finding it very difficult to have kids at 32.

>>53624576
That sums up 4chan entirely doesn't it?

>>53624524
>not using that adept power that lets you survive being killed to smother a guy in your explosive tits then set them off
الثديين أكبر

>>53624575
By enforcing penalties, you are ignoring the details established within the fiction.

In an effort to make this thread less shit, How about we change the topic.

POST YOUR RUNNERS MATRIX ICON/AVATAR.

>>53624568
It's the same kind of people who made the Reasonable Marines; they're doing this both for autism, and the power Fantasy of being "professional" in a world that operates on cool.

>>53624598
No? That didn't even parse. What are you even trying to say?

>>53624603
>inb4 women with comically large breasts
No penalties for that in the Matrix!

>>53624610
It did parse, and you heard what I said.
You are ignoring the fiction if you try to be one of these fucks.
>>53624568

If you want large breasts to be a hinderance, play a different game.
In shadowrun, large breasts, even huge-ass DDs, have no penalty. They only will have a penalty if you take the adipose trait for them.

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>>53624603

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>>53624603
Here's mine. Kinda.

>>53624624
That would not be ignoring the fiction (the established details about the in-game world).

That would be ignoring the fiction in order to allow for genre tropes.

My argument is that that isn't even necessary in order to have a fun cyberpunk-themed game.

There's already kind of a message that a dude in a pink mohawk just doesn't give a fuck. Just run with that; it's perfect.

If you wanna do a bunch of Dr. Who-style "let's pretend this isn't obviously stupid and just turn our brains off and enjoy it" GM acrobatics, then be my guest.

I'll be over here putting in the extra legwork to marry genre tropes and common sense, so everyone can enjoy the game wholeheartedly instead of constantly running into fridge logic and "nothing to see here, move along" from the GM.

>>53624722
You are ignoring both the setting itself and the genre tropes for the sake of your own autism, anon.

>>53624722
>fridge logic
Anon, you will run into that 100% of the time regardless of how black trenchcoat you are, because the setting itself doesn't make a lick of sense, especially when compared to real life.
See: Essence. That shit doesn't even make sense in-universe, and they have to keep changing their explanation over, and over, and over, and over to try to patch the holes it makes.

If the setting made sense and didn't have fridge logic problems, there would be no cybernetics and just exosuits.

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>>53624603
Closest approximation. His marks are a black handprint. When he flips to a 'civilian' icon it's a nondescript man in a black suit with mirror shades and hair that if paid close attention to is basically made of pixellated shadow.

>>53624770
edgy as fug

>>53624743
Okay, so you describe a bunch of thugs as having bigass ostentatious hairdos. Big ass pink mohawks, whatever.

There's a firefight and these fuckers get into cover behind an old couch.

One of your players asks "Hey, shouldn't some of all that pink hair maybe peek out so I can get a bead on where to shoot?"

My answer is "Yes, of course it does."
Your answer is "No."

How is your approach better than mine, and how does mine fail to live up to the genre?
They're wearing their pink mohawks aren't they?

>>53624790
You are forgetting the part where you insist they also take a mechanical penalty despite the rules, anon.

>>53624788
Just how he likes it. His specialty is Sleaze Hack On The Fly strikes and Ninja Vanish-ing before GOD can vector anything on him. For a self-professed 'professional' he's immature as fuck when it comes to personas.

>>53624805
>normally wouldn't be visible
>are now at least partially visible because of their hair
>not a mechanical penalty
What?
I'm with the other guy, you're not making any sense.

>>53624603
Whatever the matrix equivalent of "Create-a-Wrestler Preset A" is. He's not big into computers.

>>53624839
That isn't actually a mechanical penalty, anon.

>>53624839
You were talking hot shit about how you wanted to give people minuses.
Now when it comes down to it, you aren't for the sake of argument.
Now you are a liar AND a hypocrite.

>>53624790
You follow this shit deep enough and you'll turn into one of those dumpshock fuckers who argue Shadowrunning shouldn't be logically possible in the Shadowrun universe.

>>53624856
>going from Full Cover to Partial Cover is not a mechanical penalty
If they really wanted to hide behind the couch they'd lie down back there.

>>53624856
>If the defender is completely hidden behind the barrier, the attacker suffers a –6 Blind Fire dice pool modifier for not being able to see his intended target
So if their hair wasn't sticking over the cover and giving them away, the attacker would be at -6.
Since they've got big hair, the defender is no longer at -6.
How is that not a mechanical penalty?

>>53624766
Essence makes sense because it's assumed that there's a true explanation for it in your game.
Maybe the official explanation changes from game edition to game edition, but that doesn't have to change your GM's mind necessarily. And even if he does ret-con it, the ret-con is still internally consistent; it's just a new re-written version of the story but it doesn't contain contradictions.

There's a difference between lore (which is very easy to edit to be internally consistent since you don't need to go into details about everything to make it work), and internally inconsistent and nonsensical/incompatible events that occur only due to GM handwaving and being unfaithful to what has been established about the world.
Either the dude has a bigass pink mohawk or he doesn't. If he's got a bigass pink mohawk, but it magically doesn't factor into anything whenever it would have any interesting consequences, that's just retarded.

>>53624890
>>53624905
>entire body in cover
>does not get full cover penalty
And now you're rulebreakers in addition to being liars and hypocrites.

>>53624905
>Since they've got big hair, the defender is no longer at -6.
Sorry, attacker.
My bad.

>>53624545
How would you even be able to tell if the kid was black? Does your definition of pregnant porn include videos of women giving birth?

>>53624914
Look, if you want to play your fetishistic homebrew with FATAL style rules, I'm not going to stop you.

>>53624918
The hair is still visible. Therefore they are not completely hidden. You retard.

>>53624935
He saw an opportunity to be racist and goddamn if something like logic was going to get in the way.

Why are fetishists insisting on boob penalties when the rules state otherwise?

>>53624962
There's smoke from your gun. Not hidden.
You're a troll. Not hidden.
Your black trenchcoat gave you away. Not hidden.
Or, you know, you could just follow the rules like a normal human.

>>53624918
They still get the bonus for being behind cover though, it's just the difference between the attacker knowing where they are or not.
Same as if they were behind cover that was turned transparent.

>>53624994
Ah, so people never get that bonus in your games then?

>>53624992
>You're a troll. Not hidden.
>bigger people don't need bigger things to hide behind

Realistically, shadowrunners would not exist in the shadowrun setting.
Even HAVING a shadowrun is a huge breach of verisimillitude, as the corporations could easily create their own deniable assets and have no reason to hire outside contractors.

>>53625012
You've got horns too!

>>53625019
Corps could; non-corps would still have a viable need for runners.

>>53625033
Non-corps would not have the means to hire any kind of realistic runner force.

>>53624888
No, that's very simply dealt with by invoking "it's future technology." The cover charge for playing a sci-fi game is accepting that it contains solutions to problems that we haven't found yet.

It is absolutely fine in fiction to have gaps of understanding.
It is not fine to ignore obvious logical consequences of things that are well understood.

That also goes for technobabble explanations for why shit works. You fucked up if you made it so detailed that it creates glaringly obvious problems, like the pink mohawk & couch example.
You can still say plenty of shit, but it's not like you're gonna actually make a functioning patent for the piece of cyberware you're describing; at some point you have to make the leap and say "this doesn't exist in 2017 but some clever engineers in our setting came up with a way to do it."

But if you've already said it's made from durasteel, and you previously said that durasteel explodes at 100 degrees celcius, then you're gonna have to commit and have that cyber arm explode if someone blasts that character with a flamethrower.
And that's AWESOME.
Because that's the game world making sense, and allowing people to be tactical and creative. And that is much much easier to allow for if your game world doesn't selectively stop making sense all the time.

>>53625019
>>53625033
>>53625047
Hell, even heists in general make no fucking sense, those things fail like every time.

>>53625068
>doesn't selectively stop making sense all the time
You mean like shadowrun?
Because shadowrun really makes no sense. Ruleswise or setting wise.

>>53625003
If someone hides behind something that covers them completely, and the attacker doesn't pass a perception test to find them that would vary in difficulty depending on the situation, they get the bonus.
What's the problem with that?

>>53625124
Oh, they're not covered completely, their coat and smoke and horns are sticking out.
Also their helmet.

>>53625144
So that's on them for being shit at hiding?

>>53625152
Nah, the DM'd do it this way regardless for the sake of argument. Just like your examples!

>>53625098
Shhh, it would ruin any arguments if you mentioned that shadowrun makes no goddamn sense in and of itself!
Just like it would ruin the argument if you pointed out that realistically overlarge tits mechanically have no penalty at all and are even condoned!

>>53624992
>There's smoke from your gun. Not hidden.
Presumably you can make the tiny movement needed to duck back into cover during your attack, or cover would never provide its full benefits. I honestly don't remember what the rules say specifically on this, but your example is obviously terrible and made in bad faith.

>You're a troll. Not hidden.
If what you're hiding behind isn't big enough to give your large-ass frame cover, you don't get cover.

>Your black trenchcoat gave you away. Not hidden.
Under circumstances where a black trenchcoat would give you away, it would. Can you name any?
Trying to fit in at a fancy dress party is might be one.

>Or, you know, you could just follow the rules like a normal human.
It's a tabletop RPG. The circumstances established within the game world (e.g. is there cover, is it big enough, and are you hiding behind it?) get translated into mechanical effects (you get cover benefits), under the circumstances where that would make sense (cover is present, you use it.)

You seem to find this extremely hard to grasp. I don't there's anything more I can do for you on this topic. You're gonna have to try to wrap your mind around this one on your own.

>>53625171
I really don't understand where you're coming from here man.
Do you not like players being able to notice things about their environment through perception tests?

>>53625202
>Presumably you can make the tiny movement needed to duck back into cover
Stop claiming other people are arguing in bad faith when your argument is also, similarly, in bad faith.

>>53625215
My players don't like it when I bend the rules for the sake of my inconvenient tit fetishes.

>>53624935
How the fuck does that even make sense
You don't have to see the birth to know that the baby is black

>>53625200
>makes no goddamn sense in and of itself
You wield this like it's armor, but it's meaningless.
Shadowrun is a fictional setting; that doesn't make it exempt from internal logic in the eyes of the viewer/reader/player.
Magic A is Magic A.

>>53624935
>>53624967
she fucks black guys sometimes and it would break my immersion if i can't self insert as the father

>>53625235
>tit fetishes
I thought we were talking about mohawks.

>>53625239
That's why he said makes no sense in and of itself, anon.
As in, within its own setting it makes no sense. As was already explained, since shadowrunners would not actually exist in the shadowrun setting.

>>53625244
Man anon, don't tell us about your mohawk fetishes.

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>>53625268
I like em short and thick.

Why are cybernetics used at all when the same technology could make exosuits for a fraction of the price and essence drain?

Why would anyone ever use any implant other than a rigger interface to have infinite implants for cheaper, realistically?

>>53625289
Why does vision correction cause essence drain, but vision correction buy an unnatural external thing clinging to your head does not?
If your essence was aware, it should be able to notice that shit.

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>>53624603
Something like so. He's hopelessly old-fashioned.

>>53625244
It was a generalization of an argument that started out based on large tits.
The original argument was that tits above a certain size (for an obvious example we can all agree on, comedically oversized Corruption of Champion udders) would result in penalties to various actions (e.g. if you can't see past them, or if you're trying to climb through a vent that you physically can't fit through, etc.)

The problem seems to be that one very fervent anon essentially thinks the game is a board game.

>>53625305
>>53625289
Why does it cost enough essence to kill a guy to get dental work done?
>>53625310
Why do fetishists keep insisting the tits are gigantic when even a C or D or DD tit size would cause a mechanical penalty, if we were trying to be realistic?

>>53625289
We tried it once, it was called 4e riggers inside of drones and 4e riggers inside of drones damn near invalidated any other kind of combatant but tanky street sams with their megadrones.

>>53625321
>>53625305
>>53625289
Why is the living algae used for making walls not a standard weapon material in a magically active world with omnipresent spirits?

>>53625289
>>53625339
addendum: if your argument is that essence is logically inconsistent... Duh. It is. This is not news.

>>53625339
Every time I have to stop and explain something was done entirely for game balance, it breaks immersion.

>>53625355
My argument is you are an absolute hypocrite if you can put up with essence being logically inconsistent within its own setting and can't put up with much more minor problems of suspension of disbelief.

Also, that we should really scrap the essence system and try again with something that makes sense.

>>53625385
We should replace it with a stat that measures your ability to empathise with humans that haven't had bits of their brain replaced with control chips and PCBs. Call it something like Humanity, and have loss of it apply a penalty to Charisma or something.

>>53625413
Nah, that's also unrealistic.
Getting cybernetics helps you get back into interacting with humans.

>>53625361
Feel free to write up exosuits/drones and run a session of Shadowrun: Pacific Rim edition with 80 armor suitmen walking through nuclear bunker walls with rocket launchers on their shoulders.

>>53625385
But anon, I -can- put up with shadowrun's logical inconsistencies.

>>53625413
That is 99% of what essence does

>>53625321
I'm really not interested in nailing down where the limit goes, as that's a GM ruling thing.
My issue is with the guy essentially arguing that they could never impose a penalty, regardless of how ridiculously large they are.
Essentially, that the established details about your character's appearance can never have an appreciable influence on the gameplay.

That's my beef.

I couldn't care less where you decide to put your penalty at your table.
I guess if I had to make a ruling of sorts I'd let the players go pretty high on the size chart, and I'd just handwave them as being "proficient" due to experience doing their job, fighting, and so on, despite the huge mammaries. Maybe DD is where I'd occasionally chime in, but only really in obviously egregious situations.
On the other hand, they could also come in handy for charming or distracting some boob-loving NPC or whatever. It's not like that's an unusual thing among males; that's sorta the point of the implants in the first place.

>>53625098
>Because shadowrun really makes no sense. Ruleswise or setting wise.
If you dig through five editions of lore, you can generally find an explanation for anything anon can shit out as a quibble.

The question is, always, is it worth the effort?

>>53625413
Same problem. Wearing glasses or a hearing aid doesn't automagically alienate you from the rest of the world.

>>53625426
I dunno, you say you can put up with shadowrun's logical inconsistencies, but then you go on about how it's too unrealistic to have a lady with unbound large tits in a shadowrun when the rules outright allow for it with no penalties and the art shows ladies with no bras.

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> half the thread is a shitfest between autists and That Guys trying to shoehorn their fetish.


Never change, /tg/

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>>53625442
>He thinks I'm the same guy

>>53625431
These explanations will not be internally consistent, however, which is the problem.

>>53624056
Somehow I'd forgotten how damaged and hot Glory was.

>>53625447
I retain the right to go FULL ESSENCE AUTISM any time anyone gets all autistic about something breaking their immershun.

>>53625348
Because algae either don't have enough of a consciousness to have a spirit, or algae spirits are just are lots of individual but separate microscopic spirits that ssuuuucckkkk.

Most of the answers to these hypotheticals you guys are coming up with are super obvious from a GM ruling standpoint.
Doesn't exactly make the setting come crashing down.

So if I'm reading this right, inconsistencies with the setting as a whole means you should never attempt to make ANY aspect of the game interally consistent or you're a hypocrite.
I never thought mohawks would be such a sticking point.

>>53625477
but anon, the algae literally does have enough of a consciousness and spirit to affect actual spirits, that is why they make walls out of them.
That is a thing in canon.
It's retarded that it is not used in weapons.

>>53625348
We covered this last time you brought it up. Just being *astrally* active does not make something a weapon. Moving something fast through the astral plane does not make it a weapon. It has to be intended to be a weapon on the astral plane, otherwise it's like you made a dagger out of nerf sponge.

>>53625437
That's why it only causes Charisma drops every ten points you lose.

Why the fuck would glasses have a Humanity cost, anyway?

This is literally just the system from Cyberpunk 2020

>>53625483
What it actually means is I will go full autism over those setting inconsistencies if you start going autism over mohawks or tits, since you declared it was OK to go full autism.

If I have to work around the thing I hate quietly, you do too.

>>53625498
It works well enough to be a wall. So, if you intend the algae is a wall, it's a wall. Why not just intend the algae be a weapon?

>>53625486
Okay, granted, but your idea only works if there's a practical way of harnessing that though.

>lots of individual but separate microscopic spirits
What are you gonna do? Make a totem pact with every one of the five million of them?
Cast some weird gm fiat energy drain ritual on each individual organism?

If your GM lets you command their collective power, then okay; there's your awesome subplot - boy howdy is it weird that nobody tried this before you! (You must have made some major breakthrough in magic bullshit ritual making)
But it's not like it logically follows in any obvious and immediate way that you should be able to simply do that.

>>53625543
You harness it the way you harness it in canon.
You LITERALLY SPRAY IT ONTO A SURFACE.
No pacts, no binding, just put some life on that wall and BAM, spirit wall.

>>53625453
Sure they will.

Remember last time lifespans of orks was a topic, and people were saying the data was based on death statistics and averages? If you dig through five editions of lore, you know that's BS and the lifespans of all metatypes and metavariants are based on the same data - even elves and dwarves, who haven't lived long enough yet to show up in natural death statistics. The numbers given by each edition have changed, but that's because the research involved has become more in depth and unbiased through the editions.

There's an example.

>>53625513
Build a weapon focus, genius.

>>53625552
Right. You now successfully made a wall out of something that has been well-established to be suited for wall-making.
What are you gonna do now?

>>53625513
>So, if you intend the algae is a wall, it's a wall.
You don't have to "intend" the algae to be a wall. You simply put it in place and it blocks things purely by existing.

>>53625505
But you don't have to work around the thing you hate quietly?
If you want to bring essence shit up and try to make it more consistent that'd be fucking great, essence is dumb as hell.
But just randomly flipping out about how broken it is because someone dared to attempt to bring consistency to a much smaller area of the game seems nonsensical.

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What's the best way to stat this Gun Bunny?

>>53625628
Tiny head, probably low INT.

>>53625628
Adiposis.

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>mfw the thread is finally autosaging and we can put this all behind us.