The new Dark Imperium novel spoilers

Wow Yvraine is a pro slut. How can she take Rowboat manliness?

>>53609616
>cuteboy banged yvraine

Possibility to take a legal Eldar/Imperium CAD when?

>- It's also implied that he actually is a psyker and tries not to use his potential because of Magnus' censorship.

How the FUCK is that a spoiler, you fucking retarded cunt?

Everyone already knows all Primarchs are psykers. Hell, they all have FUCKING WARP STORMS BUILT INTO THEIR BODY!

Literally already a thread. You copied the OP and everything.

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- When Guilliman spoke with the Emperor during the gathering storm he was shocked how his "father" really sees him - not as a son, but a tool. So yeah, this builds up on the MoM story line. (I actually skipped quite to the end of the novel for this one).

- The Emperor's humanity is all but gone in 40k.


They did it, BL fucking shits killed /our king/. Praise our King one last time, for I am afraid we will not see him again in a positive light, and they will probably make him the badguy in the end.

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>>53609616
more spoilers:

Ok, the last part was just me messing with you guys.

Maybe...

the Eldar do tell him about the history of the universe and the war in heaven and chaos tho

- Fulgrim uses the warp tainted scar from Kor Phaeron's athame (Horus Heresy: Know no Fear) to wound his brother.

Thiel's final fate is unknown (Guilliman can't find any records of him in 40k).

- Guilliman is Imperial Regent in 40k - the voice of the Emperor himself.

- The plan for the Primaris was indeed made before Guillis death, Cawl was oathbounded and used the millenia to craft these Legions.

- Cawl originally created tens of thousands of Primaris Marines over the course of 10k years. Tho I must say we already knew so that gay anon doesn't get a stroke.

- Half of them were originally formed into chapters.

- Half of them were originally formed into chapters.

- The other were gathered into big armies, each from one primarch's gene line. They wear the colours of the original legions, badges are crossed with grey chevrons.

This is the actual quotev

There, agreement with the Codex Astartes ended.

Guilliman deployed his new weapons in every way imaginable. The Primaris Space Marines sometimes fought as the Legions of old had, in huge formations of one type, but they also fought in mixed groups of every size, from strike teams of five up to double Chapter strength. They knew the strengths of their gene-cousins, and their preferences. Brotherhood crossed the lines of primarch and gene-seed. Officially, they were designated the Unnumbered Sons of the Primarchs, but they called themselves the Greyshields. They were the new sons of old science, and they had no fraternity but their own.

>>53609985
The Emperor has been a giant cunt for years now. Hell in the original HH lore he struck me as a twat.

>>53609994
>There, agreement with the Codex Astartes ended.
>Guilliman deployed his new weapons in every way imaginable. The Primaris Space Marines sometimes fought as the Legions of old had, in huge formations of one type, but they also fought in mixed groups of every size, from strike teams of five up to double Chapter strength. They knew the strengths of their gene-cousins, and their preferences. Brotherhood crossed the lines of primarch and gene-seed. Officially, they were designated the Unnumbered Sons of the Primarchs, but they called themselves the Greyshields. They were the new sons of old science, and they had no fraternity but their own.
So that means I can paint Primaris Ultramarines without them being members of the Ultramarine chapter? Sweet.

>>53609821
>being this autistic

>defending this crap writing

only in warhammer

>>53610114
Greyshields are given new assignments at the end of the crusade. The legion organization Guilliman was using was temporary. Of course temporary here means over a century so sure why the fuck not.

>>53610143
What are their assignments like at the end of the novel?

>>53609994

- During the time of the Indomitus Crusade, more and more of these died, or got assigned to different chapters. This is a big problem for the Primaris Marines because they started to like their brethren - it doesn't matters from which gene seed they are for them.

- 100 years after the Gathering Storm, only 20.000 Unnumbered Sons remained.

- When Guilliman was reborn, he didn't really understand what happened in the last 10k years, so he kind of re-iterated the remembrancers.

- Initially, Cawl gave him machine-moderated engrammatic updates (sounds painful? yep it is).

- Belisarius Cawl is quite detached from the wider galaxy - he lived for the quest of creating the Primaris Marines. He also has his own sub faction within the Mechanicus, and not everyone there likes him for what he does (tech heresy?^^). (Yes, tech heresy you austrian woman)

- The history records of 40k are really really really bad (I think this will finally end the Black Library vs Codex canon discussion :P). Actually, they are worse than during the Unification Wars!

- Most of the history of old earth and the Crusade that got pieced together by the 30k remembrancers is lost in 40k.

- While it was impossible to suppress the knowledge of the warp, the Inquisition tried. Guilliman doesn't really like that they killed innocents just for keeping the secret of Daemons.

- The Inquisition even opposed Guilliman on his quest for knowledge. (so I guess this answers the threads from a few days ago, they are that stupid)

>>53610281
Shipped off to form new chapters or given to old ones, same as the rest were at the start of the crusade. They're not all that happy about it though, theres a chapter with Felix going back to his greyshield company one last time after being inducted fully as an Ultramarine. The entire thing stinks of the warrior lodge divided loyalty problem in a lot of ways.

>>53610331
Any word on how they are being integrated into the codex astartes? Does Guilliman rewrite it?

>>53610368
There was nothing in the novel about it, just that Guilliman planned to write a codex imperialis eventually so that when he dies the Imperium wont fuck up as bad as it did over the past 10k years.

>>53610383
Thanks m8.

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>>53610368
I'm, OP and yes in fact here is a quote:


"Felix wondered how Calgar might feel about the primach's unilateral altering of the Codex Astartes. The captain could not help but feel that, in his drive for victory and efficiency, Guilliman had been careless with the feelings of his existing sons. Increasingly, Guilliman looked to the Primaris Space Marines as his first solution. He made no attempt to hide the fact that the days of the older space marines were numbered."


This is from the perspective of a Primaris Marine who has been made the eleventh captain of the Ultramarines, by the way.

Does Rowboat weigh in on new threats such as the Tyranids or Necrons? Also what happened to those pre heresy marines in Gathering storm?

>Mary Sue
>gets fucking destroyed in the second chapter of the book


>“Swift as a striking viper, Fulgrim attacked, all four blades driving down at his brother primarch so quickly that they did not seem to pass through the intervening air. Guilliman caught them on the edge of the Gladius Incandor. Its field generator smoked at the effort of halting them. The resulting eruption of energy threw both primarchs backwards.
Fulgrim attacked again. Guilliman cried out as one blade found its way past his parries and left a smoking groove in the ceramite around his left arm. He would not win this fight.
‘Thiel, Andros,’ voxed Guilliman. ‘Now.’
There was a sound like a sigh that turned into a rumbling groan. The Heliopolis boomed with conflicting resonances, and the Phoenix Gate exploded inwards, showering the room with gobbets of molten bronze. The Ultramarines of the First and Second companies came charging in, bolters firing at the daemon primarch battling their lord.”

>“At last! Your true colours,’ said Fulgrim. ‘For all your talk of honour, you will not face me alone!"

>After he became a daemon, Mortarion apparently spent a thousand years single-mindedly tracking down the soul of the alien creature that adopted him on Barbarous and then crammed it in a jar to torture forever. Compensating for the failure of his original rebellion and for the fact that the Emperor had to intervene to kill that creature in the first place. It's such a Mortarion thing to do.

>>53610399
>Also what happened to those pre heresy marines in Gathering storm?
They all died on Cadia.

>>53609616
>>53609994
>>53610300
>>53610398
Well It's better than I've expected

Lets hope that GW wont make PappaG go full retard just to make HH 2.0

>>53610416
>“Fulgrim!’ he bellowed. ‘Face me!’
A whip-fast motion flickered to his side. Fulgrim sped through the melee, coming from the left. Guilliman barely had time to raise his sword before Fulgrim crashed into him, snarling incoherently, knocking him backwards.
>‘You hurt me, you corpse-master’s lapdog.’ The last vestiges of Fulgrim’s humanity melted from his face as it transformed into a mask of pure hatred. >‘No one hurts me. No one beats me!’
He wrapped his tail around his brother primarch, constricting him with such force that his armour plate began to crack. Casting aside one sword, Fulgrim reached down and grasped Guilliman’s head.
>‘You wanted to face me, so face me!’ he said, wrenching free Guilliman’s helmet, exposing his naked flesh to the air.”


>“The stink of his corrupted brother made Guilliman gag. His head swam as the daemon primarch’s scent invaded his nose and throat, unmoderated by his battlehelm’s systems.
‘>Pathetic!’ cried Fulgrim. He uncurled, flinging Guilliman aside. His wounded arm was already healing, crackling warp energies working in tandem with his primarch’s physiology to make him whole again. He conjured swords from poisoned mists to fill his empty hands and flew at the Master of Macragge.
Guilliman staggered upright, gasping. Every breath poured more of Fulgrim’s lethal perfume into his lungs, a poison so potent that it taxed his superhuman body. He parried, and parried again, but he could land no counterstrike and was forced back up the stairs.
>A blow flung his arm wide. He never saw the blade that cut him coming.
A cold kiss across his throat, followed by searing agony. Arterial blood sprayed from his ruined neck. He clamped his hand to the wound, but it gaped beneath armoured fingers, and the blood would not stop.


Girlyman BTFO

>>53610450
If anyone causes HH 2.0 it'll be Cawl forcing his way to the position of Fabricator General

>>53610500
I mean going full retard like BigE did

>>53609616
This fluff is trash because 10 year olds don't care about the fluff.

Now shutup and buy more models.

>>53610454
>>“The stink of his corrupted brother made Guilliman gag. His head swam as the daemon primarch’s scent invaded his nose and throat
did fulgrim just throat raped bobby?

>>53610450
OP here with even more spicy spoilers:

- The Inquisition even opposed Guilliman on his quest for knowledge.
(so answering that thread from like a week back, they are that stupid)


- The Chronostrife - a war withing the Ordo Chronos. It's about the Imperial dating system. Not even the calendar of the Great Crusade had survived 10.000 years ...
- During the Great Crusade and the Heresy, there was a standard time dating system.
- A true chronicle of the galaxy is almost impossible now. Guilliman calculates the current year anywhere between early M41 and M42. This is pretty much the in universe reason why we have no timeline anymore, and why we are "still in 999.M41, or aren't we?".

The Custodes are assholes or at least Tribune is.

He's fine to Guilliman, but he's being a dick to all the regular humans around him.


Somebody, please punch this asshole.

Basically, the Custodians have sat behind their walls and let the galaxy burn for 10000 years when they could have been helping, Guilliman knows it, they know it, but instead of acting like they're, you know, sorry, they're instead apparently doubling down and giving nothing but gall at how everyone else has fucked up.

Seriously, fuck this guy, fuck the guys next to him, and fuck them all if this is as indicative of their general attitude as Guilliman suggests it is.

>>53610454
Fuck, this book really is establishing how Guilliman doesnt stand a chance. Combine this with the build up and bants we've seen in GS2/3 and its pretty clear who's gonna win when Guilliman has to fight Fulgrim again.

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>the bit where the nurglites arrive on Iax
I forgot how fucking jolly nurgle demons could be

>>53610398
Nice. I'd like to make my own Primaris Ultramarine company. I always liked the Ultramarine fluff and color scheme but I never wanted to play a company with a named captain (not my dudes enough for me). I wonder what company markings will be like for Primaris companies.

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Man, this book sounds like some Dark Eldar tier shit writing.

Guilliman has formed his own organisation of open-minded people and is trying to put together an accurate history of the Imperium in his spare time, much to the dismay of the Inquisition.

A Priest calls him out on how this is hypocritical after he closed the Library of Ptotelmy.

cue and he goes Bam Bam with the psychic lightning bolt.

I kid, I kid, he actually tells him that this was a symbolic act, but his thoughts reveal why he actually did it: he doesn't want anyone finding out about Imperium Secundus. Bad, Robbie,
bad.

>>53610500
>>53610525
speaking of my main man Bellisarius Cawl:
He is like Mechanicus Tony Stark, complete with psychic AI construct thing that Bobby G calls Cawl Inferior

He straight-up asks Guilliman to let him put the gene-stock of the traitor legions to use in making new Primaris marines. The big guy takes this about as well as you'd expect.

Bobby G suspects that he is doing it anyways

We also learn that he's now researching the Pylons to try and replicate the technology and produce stable corridors across the Great Rift.

And he apparently keeps asking Guilliman to make him the Fabricator-General.

He's also responsible for basically every technological advance the Imperium has made in the last century.

>>53610690
Its actually pretty good. Especially the bits with the nurgle demons. Its like an extremely disgusting three stooges bit except you stop laughing when the paragraphs describing what they do to the humans start.

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>>53610695
Cawl for Fabricator General. Make the Imperium Great Again.

>>53610416
>>53610454
Is this a flashback to Fulgrim putting Roboute is stasis or did GW really already kill off Guilliman?

>>53610773
But then he can't travel around the galaxy and reeeee in binary

>>53610780
Is the, they are honestly setting up Big G to be the next Emps so no way they are killing him yet

>>53610300
>(tech heresy?^^)
I smell the taint of Atia in this. That man can't stop writing like a transitioning teenage girl.

What's this about their markings? Any more explanation of this? I'm painting up tanks at the moment, want to make sure what I've got fits

>>53610785
It we must toil so that the Imperium is great again, also I guess GW does lurk on /tg/

>>53609985

The Emperor of Mankind was an asshole, and his inability to connect with other people because of his SHAMAN SPIRIT AUTISM doomed humanity.

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>>53610773
Schism of Mars 2: Electropreist Boogaloo when?

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>>53610557

>Guilliman calculates the current year anywhere between early M41 and M42.

>The Imperium of Man doesn't even know what millennium it's in.

>>53610773
>risking the life of the Imperium's most valuable genius in combat
Why is this allowed?

>>53610890
>implying eldar have anything to laugh about when their own history is made of pretty tales and rhymes over facts and witnesses

>>53609616

> big E is a dick, 40k sucks
> Guilliman realizes how is really in the eyes of this progenitor
> Primaris marines are seen as abominations

Are they paving the way for a truly Lawful Evil Imperium with Primaris and for a secession of Ultramar as a Noblebright Empire with true marines?

This part made me chuckle. A group of the Ultramar...boyscouts I guess? They're called Juventia, are led into a rebellion by their troop leader who fell to chaos, and Calgar showed up to deal with it personally since they have a nuke and are holed up in a museum to commemorate the shitstorm of the Thandian Pass.
>It disappoints me that our countrymen should put on such a poor showing,' said Calgar, ' No matter their age and whether they are opposed to us or not. When this is over call the local Juventia troop masters to the capital'
>'They will all be screened thoroughly, my lord,' said Ney
>'For betrayel, yes', said Calgar. 'But I want them all re-educated or replaced. This uprising is shamefully executed. The Juventia syllabus needs revision. More drill, less history. The Juventia are the last line of defence for Macragge, and the first place we go for our recruits. How could they stop an ork with this debacle?'

>>53610917
I really fucking hope so. Imperium Civil War nao plox

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So it's confirmed that the Primari are eventually going to phase out the Marines since they can be made faster, more efficiently and with the end result being a superior product...

>>53610936
5'10"s on suicide watch.

>>53610936
Also confirmed that Cawl is making some of them from shit like Luna wolf geneseed and emperor's children geneseed. This shit is gonna get fucked up quickly

>>53610954
IRON WARRIORS PRIMARIS MARINES WHEN

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>>53609985
Praise him, Brother. Seriously I don't unterstand why such chaossluts like bowden must destroy him as a figure. I mean, yes he is certainly not good, but he at least have to be neutral. If the emperor hasn't a good goal, if his vision wasn't a paradise, if he wasn't a man desperatly wanting to save mankind, than the whole tragedy of his vision getting corrupetd trough hatred and fantatism, is gone.

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>>53610821
But he was an asshole with good intentions, who wished nothing but good for humans. He tried to save everyone the best way he could, despite his autism and lack of understanding for other humans. He tried and failed. He's a tragic and a heroic figure, the Bigger Than Life dude you can't understand because you're not noble and good enough yourself, an example of heroism and leadership. Hell, the entire HH era was about Bigger Than Life dudes fighting for the fate of the galaxy, doing the impossible and fighting the power. The suff of legends.
Instead they just make him into a selfish tyrant looking for power. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to make him the Big Bad in the future (when all the races unite against him). And it all comes from authors who have this idiotic hateboner for parental figures.

>>53610805
pls respond

>>53610998
Who were you addressing?

>A true chronicle of the galaxy is almost impossible now. Guilliman calculates the current year anywhere between early M41 and M42. This is pretty much the in universe reason why we have no timeline anymore, and why we are "still in 999.M41, or aren't we?".

Bonkers explanation to still keep the 40k copyright

>>53610988
Except they do nothing of the sort in the book. Guilliman realizes his father had noble goals but he fucked up and fucked up hard, and he doesnt want to fuck up like he did. It also doesnt help that, as you said, the guy is an asshole to even his last surviving loyal son.

When the Lion finally wakes up shit is going to go down

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>>53610977
Soon, my bitter brother. Soon.

>>53611032
I wonder if it will be called Warhammer: Age of Guilliman in a few years time.

>>53610985
>>53610988
This.

>>53611053
Oh yes, a second primarch either Lionel or Russ will make things more complicated. by now Guilliman can manage everything alone without being discussed

>>53611053
>Lion
>Not Dorn

>>53611086

its much more easier to see lionfag going chaos due to his bipolarity getting worse

id be glad if dorn returns, but hes dead.

>>53611086
It needs to be done. Hell, even Khan and Corax should eventually make a return. But I'm surprised that even a century after Guillimans revival that no one else has arrived, not even Vulkan.

OK here with more spicy spoilers, for the /ourguy/ Big E lovers some quotes you guys will like:


" 'He is not a god', Guilliman said aloud. He could not countenance the thought. A being that cold and callous was not worthy of worship."

"Guilliman thought back again to his meeting with his father. He did not like to revisit the memory; it was as if the memory forced itself upon him rather than he actively sought to recall it. The thing in the cradle of the ancient machines, fed by loathesome technology. And then the golden light, and then the pain...

Guilliman's lips pressed thin. The display had been a form of control. The pain had been a form of control. He was tired of being used. "

"While the Emperor had walked abroad, He had cloaked his manipulations in love. He had let His primarchs call Him father; He had let them call themselves His sons. He had rarely spoken those words Himself, Guilliman now realised, and when He had He had done so without sincerity. Buffeted by the the full might of the Emperor's will unclothed in flesh, a cloak had been ripped from Guilliman's eyes. "

"The Emperor had allowed them to love Him, and to believe He loved them in return. He had not. His primarchs were weapons, that was all."

Inb4 assblasting

>>53611168
We already saw those.

>>53611168
Guilliman is a pussy, we need Ferrus Manus.

>>53611168
I genuinely hate how they've turned the emperor into a complete and utter asshole. I'm not saying he needs tho be the second coming of Jesus, but come one, the guy has sacrificed himself for 10000 years to guide humanity as best he can.

Yes I'm mad.

>>53611168
God damn it why must they fuck up every good piece of lore regarding the Emperor?

>>53611193
I disagree. In a direct comparison between the two, Guilliman comes out ahead.

>>53611086

Vulkan, Ferrus, Sanguinus or Dorn wouldn't be so bad, and would probably see that there is more to be gained from showing a united front. Of course, there is the issue that only Vulkan has a solid chance of coming back out of these four and Russ or The Lion will probably be brought back first to fuck things up.

>>53611168
Rightfully assblasted

>>53611204
old lore a shit ADB emprah best emprah

>>53611211

kek

>>53611233
Fuck off chaos fag

>>53611201
He also slaughtered the thunder warriors without hesitation when they stopped being useful to him. Big E is a ruthless pragmatist, the type that can only be created after living as long as he has. The only guy he gave a damn about was Malcador.

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>>53611252
We really need another friend figure for the Emperor.

>>53611204
I find the portrayal of the Emperor as a manipulative Dr Manhattan figure far more interesting than he was before.
>I'm going to let Horus cripple me and doom the human race because I can't bring myself to hurt him even though he already killed billions of mortals and two of my sons

>>53610560
>Combine this with the build up and bants we've seen in GS2/3 and its pretty clear who's gonna win when Guilliman has to fight Fulgrim again.

Guilliman.

>>53611252
>The only guy he gave a damn about was Malcador

And his Custodes

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GUILLIMAN IS WEAK!

>>53610893
Don't worry, those are just doombot!

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>>53610988
The Emperor doesn't have fucking autism. All the Emperor's 'mistakes' vis a vis the primarchs are due to these hack writers GW employs nowadays not having the IQs necessary to write about superhuman intellects well. Bowden, MacNeil et al aren't Frank Harbert.

>>53611275
I still dont fully understand the relationship between Empy and Malcador. Who the actual fuck is Malcador? We havent seen how he hooked up with the Emperor.

>>53610954
>Also confirmed that Cawl is making some of them from shit like Luna wolf geneseed and emperor's children geneseed.

No, not confirmed.
Guilliman just doesn't entirely trust Cawl not to do it.

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>>53611201
I do agree, he comes across as a dick because he is above the average person on all levels.

He wouldn't be a loving personality after being around for the time he had, fighting all the battles and wars and witnessing what humanity would become without his guidance.

He obviously becomes more of a logical thinker, although this trait then plays against him as he fails to see the betrayal and corruption of the primarchs.

However he does fail to strike down Horus immediately, which suggests he does have some emotional connection to them.

>>53611168
That doesn't even make sense unless they retcon the Horus vs Emprah fight. If Horus was just a tool then the Emperor would have just ended him at the first chance he got. I know Horus was his favorite but a favorite hammer is still just a hammer.

>>53611310
They played WoW together. Emperor was raid's MT, Malcador was ST. Got together when raid leader asked everyone for drinks irl.

This is very interesting, it really feels like they're building up to another imperial civil war plot, but this time without chaos being central, rather a civil war entirely based in ideology and the way forward.

Unless they go full retard and have emps side fall.

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Would we all be happy to hear if the silver knight that gazed upon slaanesh in the Chaos Daemons codex turned out to be Kaldor Draigo, and that he becomes a Slaaneshi Chaos Lord in the new edition?

>>53611278
But if big E treated all primarchs like tools, why did he hesitate to destroy Horus at all?

>>53611193

ferrus is dead and he would react the same, after all ho knows what the fabricators of mars are doing with his arms and head?

>>53611362
I feel that big E is becoming Malal

>>53610695
Well gulli is captain america and cawl is stark, Same colour and same maner of thinking but in the grim darkness of the far futur.
If you think it, 40k is a marvel story in dc univers with a lovecract esthetic.

>>53611362
How the fuck is the Imperium going to stand against Chaos if a civil war happens.

>>53610695
>AI
o boi

>>53611402
>But if big E treated all primarchs like tools, why did he hesitate to destroy Horus at all?
He won't. Laurie Goulding explicitly said that the showdown on the Vengeful Spirit will look different from the old lore.

>>53611422
It's not like asspulling plot devices is a foreign concept to GW, or they could just say fringe worlds are fucked, but chaos doesn't flat out invade because they want to wait for the civil war to end so they can knock out the weakened winner.

>>53611343
>>53611355
BL already said they will retcon the fight.

>>53610725
>Things literally made of shit, pus and rot and the best thing about this book
>All the rest fucking sucks
Well, I guess chaos wins then

>>53611310
And hopefully we never get an explanation on that. Else it's going to be "I made Malcador myself, before the Primarchs. He's not my friend, never was. I just use him as a tool, he has no worth whatsoever."

>>53611402
Because the fluff sucks?

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>>53611402
I'm afraid it's gonna be rewritten and Big E gonna lose against Horus, until Abbadon fights Horus 1v1 without weapons, snaps his neck and tells Big E that he will come for him in due time, because he was a terrible father to his sons. Praise Chaos.

>>53611422
>>53611451
Or the civil war is the new failstate for the Imperium that we'll constantly be moving towards but never reach.

>>53611402
Because the writers of Dark Imperium are Dumb Chaossluts that have no Idea what Consistency or Tragedy means, they just want to write edgy.

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>>53611124
>Dorn is dead
>Implying that losing his hand is enough to stop the Dorn

>>53611463

>til malcador was infact his brother and maybe Jesus himself

>>53611468
Please don't give them ideas.

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>>53611402

Because BL writers are hacks that always think they are writing and Homeresque tragedy but forget they are writing B-Tier science fantasy schlock

>>53610557
After all these years, we finally figure out what the Ordos Chronos is for, and why they got censored; and its because somebody wanted to fuck with the dating system

That's just 40k in a nutshell.

>>53611032
seems like an ok explanation desu
would you prefer le ebin warp fuckery?

>>53610695
>Robot Gorrilaman doesn't want anyone finding out about Imperium Secundus

Oh my

>>53611475
>Dumb Chaossluts
>Chaos loses and loses again

Does not compute.

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>>53611032

GW's Judaism is truly without equal save for a select few....

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>>53610695
Whats Celestine and Gray fax doing during all this?

>>53611252
Exactly. He was always an asshole.

>>53610910

>implying the Black Library doesn't have a calendar.

>>53611522
His actual reason for closing the Library is that he doesn't want any more misinformation tainting it.

>>53611505
Well, the calender of the Imperium IS a very important thing. It's needed for tithes, organising crusades, Munitorum work and all that. It sounds stupid, but if 999.M41 on Terra is 753.M41 on planet whatever, this could lead to problems with the tithe, and maybe the munitorum declaring the planet secessionists, which could lead to a war. Stupid reason, but plausible enough in the grim darkness of the far future.

>>53610773
I love that fucking popped collar on him. It kinda sells me on his radical behavior

>>53611565
Thats one reason, but the Imperium Secondus thing is also a reason. He thinks about it when talking to that priest guy.

>>53611539
>writers are chaosfags
>GW leadership tells them to fuck off because space marines sell
>writers make space marines win but still try to spit in imperium's sandwich out of spite.
Pretty straightforward, senpai

Pottery
'I have,' replied the Emperor. 'It is my dream. An Imperium of Man that exists without recourse to gods and the supernatural. A united galaxy with Terra at its heart.'

'A united galaxy?' said Uriah, averting his gaze from his blazing church as he finally grasped the scale of the Emperor's ambition.

'Indeed. Now that Unity has been achieved on Terra, it is time to reclaim humanity's lost empire among the stars.'

'With you at its head, I presume?' said Uriah.

'Of course. Nothing of such grand scale can be achieved without a singular vision at its heart, least of all the reconquest of the galaxy.'

'You are a madman,' said Uriah. 'And you are arrogant if you believe you can subjugate the stars with warriors such as these. They are powerful to be sure, but even they are not capable of such a thing.'

>>53611612
'You are right,' agreed the Emperor. 'I will not conquer the galaxy with these men, for they are but men. These are the precursors to the warriors I am forging in my gene-labs, warriors with the strength and power and vision to bestride the battlefields of the stars and bring them to compliance. These warriors shall be my generals and they will lead my great crusade to the furthest corners of the galaxy.'

'Didn't you just tell me of the bloody slaughters perpetrated by crusaders?' said Uriah. 'Doesn't that make you no better than the holy men you were telling me about?'

'The difference is I know I am right,' said the Emperor.

'Spoken like a true autocrat.'

The Emperor shook his head. 'You misunderstand, Uriah. I have seen the narrow survival path that is all that stands between humanity and extinction, and this is the way it must begin.'

Uriah looked back at the church, the gleeful flames reaching high into the darkness.
'It is a dangerous road you travel,' said Uriah. 'To deny humanity a thing will only make them crave it all the more. And if you succeed in this grand vision of yours? What then? Beware that your subjects do not begin to see you as a god.'

>>53611634
tbf The Emperor WAS right, and he did manage to conquer the galaxy with the use of space marines and primarchs. Than chaos happened and it all went to shit.

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>>53611612
>>53611634

The Last Church still remains my favorite Warhammer story after nearly 10 years

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>>53611691
Agreed. I'm also a fan of the one about the Salamander legion descending into the bowels of the Earth to destroy the shield generators for one of the techno barbarian kingdoms. Wish we got more writing like that

>>53611201
To be fair, the Emperor being a dick to Guilliman NOW makes a lot of sense

>He's been sat in agony for 10000 years
>His sons destroyed his dream
>The son he had most connection to was the leader of the betrayal
>The son he was next closest to destroyed his project to save humanity and betrayed a direct order
>He had to give up the part of him that loved Horus so that he could bring himself to kill him
>His best friend died holding the throne while he was killing his son
>The primarchs that were left failed to save the imperium, squabbling amongst themselves and running off
>He's had a front row seat to the decline of the imperium, the growth of the imperial cult and the atrocities done in his name
>He's also see people betray him time after time after time

And then, to top it all off

>One of his primarchs comes back, after all these centuries - and who is it? Is it Dorn, his pretorian and the last person he spoke to while alive? Is it the Lion or Russ, both immensely loyal in their own ways? Is it Corax, who he trusted with the secrets of gene-lore? Is it Vulkan, compassionate and strong? Is it the Khan, who fought for Terra when there was every opportunity and reason for him to side with the Warmaster?

>No, it's Guilliman. Guilliman, who waited, Guilliman who carved out an empire for himself, Guilliman who wanted to be warmaster.
>And how does he come to him? In life support almost as extensive as his own, and that only possible thanks to xenos witchery.

I'd say there's a lot of reasons for big E to be pissed off at this point

>>53611665
>"And if you succeed in this grand vision of yours? What then? Beware that your subjects do not begin to see you as a god."

Uriah was right as well.

>>53611665
tbf Uriah was also right, and it is because of his ambition and utter autism that chaos managed to do what it did.

>>53611573

This is a problem in real life. Time doesn't flow universally at the same speed. Satellites orbiting at different orbits feel the pass of time different from Earth, to the point that it must be taken into account. Fortunately, it is an exponential effect that it is mainly significant at speed closer to lighspeed, nowhere near the speed of the typical celestial bodies.

>>53611722
about that:


The Emperor had allowed them to love Him, and to believe He loved them in return. He had not. His primarchs were weapons, that was all.

>>53611283
Yup

>>53611771
To be completely fair, thats from Guillimans perspective. Nothing about it is objective.

>>53610130
summarizing all the autistic screeching about 40k in this board

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>>53611343
Get in the power armor Shinjilliman.

>>53611665
>tbf The Emperor WAS right he managed to conquer the galaxy until someone more powerful showed up and squished him

>>53611402
>why did he hesitate to destroy Horus at all
when will this meme end?

>>53611722
>I'd say there's a lot of reasons for big E to be pissed off at this point

Except he wasn't pissed.
He was jubilant.
A favourite tool, lost long ago had appeared in his hand again.

>>53611801
It took the might of all 4 chaos gods, half the traitor legions and a host of daemons to take him on and they still lost.

>>53611801
>chaos god try fucking him over, turning half the imperium against him and sending their best demons against him
>they get BTFO

>>53611833
>B-b-b-but

But nothing. He ultimately proved to lack the might and guile necessary to get the job done.
The Emperor was not right.

>>53610450
>Lets hope that GW wont make PappaG go full retard just to make HH 2.0

Nah, HH 2.0 is going to be Tau civil war

>>53610398
>This is from the perspective of a Primaris Marine who has been made the eleventh captain of the Ultramarines, by the way.
Wait, does that mean the 1000 marine limit is gone?

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>>53611634
When you realize GW lore's been taken over by midwits who's idea of being well read is reading Dawkins, Harris and Hitchens.

>>53611853
>>they get BTFO

But not really, it's already well established that everything has gone according to their design.

Infact only Roboute Guilliman's return has changed things up, but even a that the Gods are not upset.

>>53611859
Yes nigga

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>>53611819
When it stops being true.

>>53611559
Long dead it's a hundred years later.
Plus who cares about the token female characters

>>53611853
>they get BTFO
>Chaos gods remain untouched while the Emperor's body and dreams rot in his throne
>Chaos never gave a fuck about Horus's rebellion anyway (this is canon) and only cared about breaking the Webway (which they accomplished)
Imperiumcucks are deluded

>>53610398
>He made no attempt to hide the fact that the days of the older space marines were numbered.

I can see this quote inducing autistic screeching throughout the galaxy in the far future

>>53610725
What do they do?

>>53611559

taking care of their own lives

also celestine is a immortally young demigod

and greyfax has the money and the inquisition to keep her eternally young

probably celestine is on a scholar progenita, teaching kids on how to be good persons as cool sis supergirl Sailor moon

>>53611771
Does the emperor say that?

Because even gods can have denial (and having to completely remove yourself from any love you do have so you can kill the son you love most won't help) - the Emperor rationalising the primarchs as just his tools seems like a reasonable way to make the 10000 years of failure and betrayal sting a little less

And as I said, Guilliman isn't a great son to him - ruling over those 500 worlds like he's hot shit

I wonder if Konor made Guilliman's expectations too high - after all, on Macragge he was an only child.

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>>53611882
Based Guilliman.

>>53611877
>But not really
>muh years of retcons
It just proves my point that BL is a bunch of hack writers who can't into continuous storyline, without rewriting it constantly to justify their egos.

>>53611968
>Guilliman isn't a great son to him

Guilliman isn't any sort of sons to him.
The Primarchs are tool to be used.

>>53611943
Rock up to Iax on giant flying void whale carcasses and have a giant concert in a swamp complete with orchestra.

>>53611869
the point of the story is to make Emp and his dawkins-ish arguments look bad. He's not a hero in the story. If you ignore how simplistic the conversation is (and really, these are men in a wasteland earth future, Uriah is certainly underqualified in this debate) you're meant to side with Uriah and see Emps as a tyrant. (he is one)

>>53612000
what books that from?

>>53611997
people are really latching on to this idea

Emp in 40k isn't the same as the one in the Great Crusade. He was always a terrible father, and never considered himself a father. But he did see many of the Primarchs as friends, not just tools. This is inarguable canon.

40k emps hasn't spoken to a human being in any real sense in 10k years. He's bats.

>>53612065
>But he did see many of the Primarchs as friends, not just tools. This is inarguable canon.
[citation needed]

>>53612065
I really hope they keep it like this.

>>53611722
This explanation really hit me, it's good fluff if they go this route. Shit fluff if they just retcon emps into being a bad guy from the get go.

>>53612065
>This is inarguable canon.

No it's not. We're told that the Emperor is a cold bastard who manipulates people.
The only reason he doesn't with Guilliman is that he is no longer able.

>>53610954
>Luna wolf geneseed
Luna wolves weren't particulary chaos oriented like the word bears of world eaters though, they were just fiercly loyal to their primarch. If the primarch when they went.

With proper maintenance and follow up, i don't see that geneseed causing problems.

>>53612093
>into being a bad guy from the get go
>not loving your lab creations makes you a bad guy

>>53610954
Better than using fucking blood angels or space wolves geneseed.

>>53611454
Oh man im ANGRY.

>>53612112
Essentially lying about it and deceiving an entire race because you're just that convinced that you and you alone am right in all things, and that this justifies any means you use to reach your goal does make you kind of a dick with a napoleon complex, yes.

>>53612145
So he'd be less of an egotistical tyrant if he never pretended to love the Primarchs?

>>53612177
No he just would have been a more honest one.

>>53612104
This pretty much

Lots of loyalists demonstrated as well from the original traitors - it's not necessarily in the blood, though I doubt the gods won't try and have a laugh with the genestock

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Currently making my way through the book, and I gotta say, I'm really warming to Robby. He's a cool character and provides a nice contrast of the modern definition of a rational man to the theocratic hellscape that is the Imperium.

Anyone else feel like this is setting up a non-chaos civil war between old Imperium Traditionalists (Inquisition, Ecclesiarchy, AdMech priesthood, SM chapters like the Black Templars) and Guilliman's reformers (Ultramar, Primaris Marines, Cawl's Nu-Admech)?

Guys, why don't you read Inquisitor before you start bitching about Big E being an asshole?

He's suffering on his golden potty and has directed all his hope and love towards mankind collectively. he can't care for the singular primarchs or citizens of the Imperium, since he needs to keep tabs on everything at all times.

>>53612177
He was always a bit of a dick, but the conversation with guilliman paints him as some kind of heartless, calculating schemer who sees everything as a statistic and nothing more. I think the upcoming civil war will be a lot more interesting if they make both leaders sympathetic, rather than a clear hero and villain.

>The novel says the war against Chaos is millions of years old
>countless races were corrupted and consumed by it
>The current war is but a small chapter in saga that stretches back to the War in Heaven and will likely continue until the end of the universe

How the fuck is Chaos millions of years old when it was created in the middle ages?

>>53612083
see
>>53611889
just one example

>>53612215
Awakened in the middle ages anon, not created.

>>53612093
I wrote it, and I don't think the Emperor was ever going to be much of a father, at least to a few of the primarchs (Angron, for example, though finding out his son/creation was irreversibly damaged has got to suck), and in general he's not a nice guy, but I think he was still a bit of a father.

He's quite a lot less now though

>>53612215
Because the concept of "retcon" exists.

>>53612232
Same difference.
Chaos wasn't around for millions of years.

>>53612197
Well Cawl's already being set up as a loose cannon as well isn't he?

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there is an epub somewhere or just someone who can read the book?

>>53611321
I know, but I've found that "there are rumors" usually means "it's definitely happening" in the 40k universe

>>53612215
the current big four are just the current incarnations of chaos that has always existed

>>53612219
Which has already been declared non-canon by Black Library. Try to keep up.

>>53612252
the download's been posted like ten times in the past two threads

>>53612040
That is still indicative of the shallow weltenshaung these shit BL hacks accept as axiomatic i.e. being a tyrant is automatically bad because reasons. The Emperor had 38K years of experience with mankind at that point, unfathomable, intelligence, and had prescience. Maybe, just maybe, an entity like that didn't have the psychology of a two bit human tyrant type we can easily recognize. Of course he did come across like that because Graham Macneil isn't any where near smart enough to pull off a portrayal of a being like the Emperor (same thing with the primarchs and certain Eldar characters)

>>53609821
>Hell, they all have FUCKING WARP STORMS BUILT INTO THEIR BODY!
WHat the fuck did I miss

>>53612215
Chaos transcends time.

>>53610695

Hats off to the priest willing to call a Primarch of all people out on being a hypocrite.

>>53612245
Chaos doesn't give a shit about linear time. Slaanesh has always existed, despite being birthed by the Fall of the Eldar

The last days of the Old Ones also had a big impact in creating Chaos

>>53612252
>>53601225

>>53612282
I think he's reffering to the primarch being pulled away by the warp in the very beginning?

Don't think big E put a fucking warpstorm into his own play things though. Why even?

>>53611422
Well that's the grim darkness that counters the noblebright numarines and new tech and idealistic Girlyman. Just as it seemed the imperium was turning a new leaf to embrace technological and political development, it splits into two warring factions that both still occasionally have to work together to right chaos.

>>53612282
Not sure about warp storms, but new HH novels imply Primarchs are the result of forbidden warp knowledge.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Molech

>The 500 worlds of Greater Ultramar are being reforged
>They get eight new chapters to defend it
>The Scythes of the Emperor are fucking back
>When the lords and diplomats try to kick up a fuss Guilliman tells them to suck it up or die
Its fucking happening

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>>53612303
thanks anon!

>>53612197

Cawl and Gulliman seem unlikely to be on the same side going by the book.

>>53612197
Man, fuck the new generic marines. Eagle faced honour guard box when.

>>53612381
>Eagle faced honour guard box when
They've been out for ages, you ignoramus.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Ultramarines-Invictarus-Suzerain-Squad?_requestid=2714933

OP Here with some hot Calgar on Catus action:

In the book Calgar had to relinquish command.

He resents having to cede control to Guilliman, and he doesn't like how 'autocratic' Guilliman is. He, like many Ultramarines, built up this ideal of Guilliman in his head but unlike most of them, Calgar can look past the awe and is disappointed that the real thing doesn't quite seem to be living up to the ideal.

Also Guilliman is apparently personally mentoring Cato (presumably to take his spot) and is relying more on the Primaris marines than his firstborn children.

Despite this, he's still utterly loyal to Guilliman, though, and as a result he's starting to turn this resentment onto the people of the Imperium for forcing Guilliman to act in such a way. There's a very real undertone of 'the normals can't look after themselves' in Ultramar these days.

He's ashamed because he feels like a failure. The sweeping changes Guilliman has made to Ultramar make him feel like he hasn't been good enough - after all, if he had done better, Guilliman wouldn't have needed to change anything. He also feels like he's failed by not being able to drive the enemy himself and needing Guilliman's force to come and bail him out.

Afterwards he realizes that he's being prideful and that Guilliman isn't really doing any of it to be a dick and only wants what's best for humanity and feels ashamed for being resentful.

Any Custodes stuff?

>>53612352
>"Lord Cawl, you must not use traitor geneseed! I forbid it!"
>"U wot Bobby? Imma fuckmotheringBelisarius Cawl, I do whatever I want! Now hand me over the geneseed or I'll turn that precious suit of you off! [laughs in binary] Suck my robodick Bob!"

>>53612475
I loved this part In the book

>>53612456
Custodes were depressed for 10k years until Guilliman kicked their asses into gear.
But now they're excessively wrathful and arrogant and poor commanders.

>>53611798
underrated post

>>53612456
>>53610557
for you, with extra spice and salsa.

>>53611889
Chaosfags btfo

>>53612417
The suzerain look terrible, are littered with ultramarines iconography, and from forgeworld (thus, about twice as expensive as anything from GW).

Eagle faced honour guard box when. They finally buffed the unit, so now would be the time.

>>53612422
Thanks OP you are a saviour. Emperor bless you

Is there anything about how other Space Marine Chapters react to a Primarch coming back or being slowly replaced by Primaris Marines?

>>53610936
In 30 years of real life time. You think, GW is going to tell SM players their army is invalid, or miss out on selling the Manlet/chad civil war.

>>53610954
Luna wolf gene seed is extremely potent and verywell accepted by initiates. Remember, before the warrior lodges and before Horus fell, Luna wolves were arguably the best.

>>53610977
When you paint them up as IW...

>>53610936
if that's what peak performance looks like, I'd rather be substandard for the rest of my life

>>53612650
Marines are hyped that a Primarch is back.
Primaris Marines are accepted by 94% of Space Marine chapters.
So far old type and Primaris exist in harmony.
Though fresh Grey Shields seem pretty upset about having to leave the Unnumbered Sons.

>>53612207
This.
‘WE ARE CURIOUS,’ came a mighty, anguished thought which itself transcended time. ‘WE HAVE FOLLOWED YOUR INTRUSION INTO OUR SANCTUARY, OUR ANTRUM AND ADYTUM.’

‘My lord.’ Jaq sank to his knees. ‘I beg to report to you before I am destroyed. I may have uncovered a great conspiracy—’

‘THEN WE WILL STRIP YOUR SOUL BARE. RELAX, MORTAL MAN, OR YOU WILL SURELY DIE IN SUCH PAIN AS WE ALWAYS ENDURE.’
‘WE HAVE PUT BACK WHAT WE TOOK AND TASTED, INQUISITOR.’

‘WE ARE MANY, INQUISITOR.’

‘HOW ELSE COULD WE ADMINISTER OUR IMPERIUM —’

‘AS WELL AS WINNOW THE WARP —’

‘HOW ELSE?’

‘SO DOES THE HYDRA THREATEN US?’

‘IMPERILLING OUR GREAT AND AWFUL PLAN TO STEER HUMANITY?’

‘DID WE OURSELVES DEVISE THE HYDRA?’

‘PERHAPS IN A PART OF US, SINCE THIS HYDRA PROMISES A PATH?’

‘SURELY A MALEVOLENT PATH; FOR HOW COULD HUMANITY EVER FREE ITSELF?’

‘THEN WE MUST BE MALEVOLENT TOO, FOR WE HAVE EXPELLED OUR SENTIMENTALITY LONG AGO. HOW ELSE COULD WE HAVE ENDURED? HOW ELSE COULD WE HAVE IMPOSED OUR RULE?’

‘YET BY VIRTUE OF THAT WE ARE PURE AND UNCONTAMINATED BY WEAKNESS. WE ARE GRIM SALVATION.’

‘NOTHING THAT SAFEGUARDS HUMANITY CAN BE EVIL, NOT EVEN THE MOST STRENUOUS INHUMANITY. IF THE HUMAN RACE FAILS, IT HAS FAILED FOREVER.’

‘WHEN WE CONFRONTED THE CORRUPTED, HOMICIDAL HORUS WHOM ONCE USED TO SHINE LIKE HE BRIGHTEST STAR, WHOM USED TO BE OUR BELOVED FAVOURITE — WHEN THE FATE OF THE GALAXY HUNG BY A THREAD — WERE WE NOT COMPELLED TO EXPEL ALL COMPASSION? ALL LOVE? ALL JOY? THOSE WENT AWAY. HOW ELSE COULD WE HAVE ARMOURED OURSELVES? EXISTENCE IS TORMENT, A TORMENT THAT MUST NOURISH US. EVIDENTLY WE MUST STRIVE TO BE THE FIERCE REDEEMER OF MAN, YET WHAT WILL REDEEM US?’

‘Great Lord of All,’ whimpered Jaq, ‘did you know of the Hydra before now?’

‘NO, AND WE SHALL SURELY ACT IN DUE TIME —’

‘ONCE WE HAVE ANALYSED THE INFORMATION WITHIN THIS SUB-MIND OF YOURS.’

‘YET SURELY WE KNEW. HOW COULD WE NOT KNOW?’

>>53612422
>Guilliman becomes Punished Guilliman because of the absolute state of the Imperium
>Calgar becomes Punished Calgar because of the absolute state of his Primarch

Poetry.

>>53611036
>last surviving custom weapon

ftfy

Gulliman loves/d the primarchs the way I love my favorite at-15 build. It runs the best, has all the accessories that I like, is the most accurate, and I built it. But underneath it all it's still just a semi-auto rifle, not my son.

>>53612726


‘HEAR THIS, JAQ DRACO: ONLY TINY PORTIONS OF US CAN HEED YOU, OTHERWISE WE NEGLECT OUR IMPERIUM, OF WHICH OUR SCRUTINY MUST NOT FALTER FOR AN INSTANT. FOR TIME DOES NOT HALT EVERYWHERE IN THE REALM OF MAN. INDEED, TIME ONLY HALTS FOR YOU.’

‘WE ARE AN EVER WATCHFUL LORD, ARE WE NOT? DID YOU HOPE TO GAIN OUR UNDIVIDED ATTENTION?’

‘HOW ELSE COULD WE SOUL-BIND PSYKERS AND OVERVIEW THE WARP AND BEAM THE ASTRONOMICAN BEACON AND SURVIVE AND RECEIVE INFORMATION AND GRANT AUDIENCES ALL AT ONCE, UNLESS WE ARE MANY?’

‘AND YET WE MISS SO MUCH, SO VERY MUCH. SUCH AS THAT WHICH GUIDED YOU HERE.’

‘OUR SPIRIT GUIDED YOU.’

‘NO: ANOTHER SPIRIT, A REFLECTION OF OUR GOODNESS WHICH WE THRUST FROM US.’

‘WE ARE THE ONLY SOURCE OF GOODNESS, SEVERE AND DRASTIC. THERE IS NO OTHER SOURCE OF HOPE THAN US. WE ARE AGONISINGLY ALONE.’

>>53611539
You do realise all chaos worshippers are masochists, why else would they just jab spikes into their backs for no reason

>>53612726
>>53612743
I love this depiction of the Emperor.

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>>53610557
>Basically, the Custodians have sat behind their walls and let the galaxy burn for 10000 years when they could have been helping
>they're assholes about it

>>53612215
Slaanesh existed before the first war in heaven

>>53612726
>>53612743
I read Inquisitor before I even knew about 40k (I found it on a shelf at the library) and this part made me fall in love with the universe.

>>53609616

You are full of shit.

>>53611869
Reminder that that philosophically illiterate bunch has yet to shut up.

>>53612830
As someone who's read it he's mostly right.

>>53610798
>LADY atia
>man
Even if its a dickcarrier that person thinks herself a woman, but so far there no evidence to presume she isn't a born girl

>>53612916
Keep your gender politics memes on tumblr

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Soon

>>53611722
This should be official lore though.

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>>53612935
>the one time Nids where allowed to win

>>53611869
Sounds like someone's never read Asimov.

Get back to /pol/

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So the Custodes recent huge downgrade is to reflect their state of degradation into M41?

>>53612935
What would happen if Squat man met Demiurg man?

>>53611869
The author literally gifted this short story to Dawkins, at one of their fedoracons(wearing a cringy ass t-shirt to boot).

Speaking, wtf is Dawkins supposed to take from that story, him not likely being a 40k fag?
"Let's side with the Taliban-tier warlord and his shitty debate?"

>>53613012
Dawkins is supposed to shame his species by providing kindergarten tier philosophy.

>>53612971
>le /pol/ bogeyman

>>53613012
That's just sad, man.

>>53611559
Making out.

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Is this true?

>>53613082
>What a story Malcador

>You are tearing me apart Horus

Yeah, let's do it. HH movie with wiseau as the emps.

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>>53613082
No but this is.

>>53613108
>Guilliman approaches the Emperor after 10,000 years

>Oh hi, Guilliman!

>>53613082
Don't know his true age
>somehow managed to finance a movie despite nobody knowing how
>looks like him
>autismo like him
truly the grimdarkest timeline to come.

>>53613153
>Anyway, how's your sex life?

>>53613186
I would buy a book about Tommy Wiseau being the supreme authority of man

>>53613227
>Tommy Wiseau being the supreme authority of man
It would be a bumpy ride but I think things would work out in the end.

>>53613211
Heretical.

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>>53613211
>I have an aeldari waifu, a banshee waifu, a living saint waifu and a girl inquisitor waifu. Also your sisters of silence are my fangirls.

>>53611083
>>53611305

I feel conflicted about this overall:

>The Bad
Although the situation is worsened by hack writers, popular media this decade has shown us that the vast majority of people who consume fiction can only relate to what they know, are familiar with, or think they know - sex, violence, family issues, social issues, psychological issues. WH40k fiction is no exception to this trend, as BL more or less turned the entire HH into a complicated instance of domestic violence in the galactic household of Big E.

And unfortunately, thats the only way these (BL) writers know how to write a half compelling story that would entire the readership.

>The Good
So the Chaosboys in the workshop succeeded in ruining Big E's image as a great, tragic hero. The traitors "won" and will continue "winning"; and Big E has turned into the monstrously inhuman tyrants of all tyrants like they thought He would be.

So what? Congratulations, you turned the strongest of mortals into an ever growing psychic god of the materium. He is completely disconnected from humanity, but Guilliman will eventually realize this is for good reason - the entire point of the Webway was to elevate humanity from what it is now to something higher, something greater than humanity in m42. And it will all be because the traitors lit the fuse and made their greatest nightmare real.

>The Best Part
And Big E isn't even in His final form.

>>53613250
>"I'm go glad that I have a people as good as you. AndIlovelisasomuch."

>>53613380
But I don't give a shit about powerlevels. I just want the writing and the characters to be consistent and decent.

>>53609616
>>Gulliman looks up to and reveres Emperor like a father.
>>Emperor sees Gulliman as nothing more than a tool to serve mankind
>>Primaris Marines honored to serve under a living Primarch, seen as father figure and even share geneseed
>>Gulliman sees Primaris as nothing more than a tool.

We become our parents. Big E confirmed world's shittiest dad once again.

>>53611445
>>53611454

In the Outcast Dead Kai Zulane talks to Emps and he is being told that Emps already knows his destiny
Later on in Vengeful Spirit, Horus gets way more powerful, thanks to (decades/centuries?) being in the chaos dimension getting powers from the Chaos gods.
Maybe Horus really was more powerful than Emps in the final fight.

Seriously, can people stop crying about how BL ruined the Emperor etc? They didn't. They fixed him. We had small blurbs to go on before, and come on, they were SO obviously hyped propaganda.
The Emperor is an actual person with real, tangible flaws, and makes mistakes that snowball and have huge consequences because he's in charge of everything.
>Worst father, incompetent, ruined etc

</3

>>53613496
>Maybe Horus really was more powerful than Emps in the final fight.
He will be. Horus will legitimately have the upper hand until Ollanius Pious steps in and wounds Horus with the godslaying anathame dagger he's currently carrying. This will give Emps an opening to win. I guarantee this.

>>53613422

But it is consistent. The traitors are forever damned and are forever blind to both the cause and the ultimate end of their heresy, the loyalists forever hope in the God Emperor's vision for mankind, the God Emperor holds on to hope even after 10k years for humanity, and Guilliman is ever learning how to become a better everything.

Decent? Probably not, but at least you don't play Tyranids.

>>53613583
What we're complaining about is not the fact that they made the emperor flawed, what we're complaining about is that they took everything good his lore had (Him loving his primarchs as sons and doing His best for mankind and failing at it tragically) and turned him into a retarded dick who did everything wrong and pretty much caused His own downfall by being absolutely retarded.

>>53613657

A good son may fail you from time to time.

A good tool will not.

>>53613657
>and pretty much caused His own downfall by being absolutely retarded
The Emperor was even more retarded in the old fluff. He personally led a strike team onto the Vengeful Spirit only to let Horus beat him to death.

>>53613657
They didn't tho? He's a ruler and a ruler has to be detached from His subjects, that He may make good decisions. That those subjects then suck ass and can't do as they're told is on them.

>>53611422
More infighting amoung Chaos factions as the Deamon Primarchs get back in the game.

>>53613583
It went more like
>take a flawed character with good intentions
>take out good intentions and amplify the bad qualities
That's 14-year-old's vision of "improving" the character. Yeah, obviously, perfect people don't exist, but not all of them are evil selfish arrogant dicks high on power.

>>53613583
reason many things in settings and stories are left as mystery is to allow the reader to imagine what really happened.

the new fluff is not what some people imagined happened.

>>53613700

The old fluff said He let Horus beat Him silly because He felt guilty about the entire heresy, which was even more retarded.

>>53613700
>The Emperor was even more retarded in the old fluff. He personally led a strike team onto the Vengeful Spirit only to let Horus beat him to death.

It was literally an homage to Fingolfin and Morgoth's fight. The setting was always about Bigger Than Life dudes, and the Emperor was the combined vision of this ideal.

>>53612197
I actually thing Guilliman's going to stick with the Imperium, and the split will come when a more idealistic Primarch like Russ or Corax returns.

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>>53613728
You just described all but a handful of the Primarchs. And the Emperor still isn't that.

>>53613758
The Bigger Than Life angle got altered way back when FW started working on the Heresy. Also, He still is? Have you read the things he does, the way people, even Primarchs, react to Him? It's almost as glorious as He.

>>53610954
Well now I'm sure we'll be seeing Alpha Legion primaris showing up at some point with no explanation Just As Planned

>>53612278
it's true that there's no real intellectualism at BL... but there is an interesting dynamic about the EoM w/r/t him being a tyrant and how it makes us, as people living in liberal democracies, feel.

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>>53609985
>>53610985
Goodbye Emperor

Goodbye, tragic hero, who was the apex of human capability, and wanted humanity to achieve the same. Who in his millenia-spawning plan have made so much impossible things, possible. Who's greatness, and perspecive, enabled him to do things that would benefit and elevate mankind, but the very same prowess and perspective was his downfall as well.

As he lost the ability to connect with people, and inevitably turned them against himself, trough misunderstanding and treachery. Ultimately forcing him into ten millenia's unfanthomable pain, where he watched his great work wither, and die.

Hello asshole of Mankind, who cared nothing about anyone or anything, and instead of being incapable of empathising, outright didn't care about anyone.

>>53613909
They're literally the same person. The "tragic hero" is how people perceive his actions from the outside, the asshole takes care of the details and actually makes things happen.

>>53613909
>Goodbye, tragic hero

Welcome to Warhammer 40,000. You are not the good guys. There are no good guys. The Emperor is just one more bloody, genocidal tyrant amidst a galaxy full of them.

>>53612282
>>53612310
Each time a primarch dies, warp phenomena appear.

>>53613812
Hence why we need the Lion.

>>53613877
When Corax tried to make Marines+ they were able to fuck it up when he was on Terra working in the depths of the Imperial Palace. They absolutely have a finger in the Primaris pie.

Plus Primaris are the same size that certain AL Marines were known to reach.

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>>53609985
>the Emperor
>bad guy
Never.

Point of order, a lot of the theories and suppositions about the emperor and his origins and behaviors in this thread are based on the old lore written by William King

I love those stories, but BL assholes have out and out said Kings work is NOT canon anymore, and is going to be replaced whole cloth. Any citation about the Emperor sorrow at killing Horus, the Shaman gestalt, or his feelings towards the primarchs is invalid. This also applies to later fiction written founded on Kings work, such as Inquisition War

Sorry, it's shit, But the Emperor is the villain and an asshole.

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>Emperor can talk

>heavily implied hot elf-sex

>Imperium is lost in time-warp shenanigans

Did we go back to RT? Not a bad thing at all, if yes.

>>53613840
>The Bigger Than Life angle got altered way back when FW started working on the Heresy.
Which was a mistake. Legends have to remain vague or they stop being legends. Especially when they are so poorly written.

>>53613973
>>heavily implied hot elf-sex
>>Imperium is lost in time-warp shenanigans

None of these are implied anywhere it's just /tg/ memes

>"‘Gentlemen, this will have to wait until later. I will see all your plans today, I promise. Please, while you wait, Captain Felix will arrange some refreshments for you.’
Felix’s brows drew together in consternation. The crawler’s provisions amounted to tepid recycled water and emergency biscuit rations. Guilliman trusted him to organise something. If anyone could source suitable vittles from nowhere, Felix could. The expression on Felix’s face was almost comical. Guilliman resisted the urge to reassure him. The Primaris captain had to learn to trust his own abilities."

I'm really enjoying this book so far.

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>>53613909
I will miss the old man. Actually the worst part is, that they are retconning the fight on the Vengefull Spirit, so no one can call them out on their bullshit.

So since the Inquisition has decided to be moronic and side against a Primarch, what does everyone think will be the "sides" in the coming conflict. I don't think it'll be outright civil war, but there's absolutely ideological splits in the Imperium that are even more pronounced that someone who knew the Emperor as a man is back and calling the shots.

Gulliman and his Primaris, Cawl and his Nu-Admech sect gunning for fabricator general are one side.

The Inquisition does not take kindly to threats towards their power, and if Rowboat runs around telling everyone the emperor is not and never was a god, that spells serious trouble for peace. The Ecclesiarchy likewise will take issue, but at the same time Celestine and Rowboat seem like they'd be on the same side, and Sisters of Battle would worship gully as a living saint and son of god.

The Officio Assassinorum is part of the Administratum, and with Gulliman trying to fix the shitty records of the Imperium he might find himself on either their good side or bad side depending on how stupid the scribes act when contradicted by someone who literally lived through the shit they got wrong. The assassins themselves have been sent as personal agents of the emperor in the past, so presumably they would be loyal to his sons. Then again, they're rather rigid in dogma and have been sent after primarchs in the past, although I doubt anything less than a dozen Culexus and eversors could put down gully.

The Imperial Guard will presumably be split between factions depending on world and ideology. Maybe if Gulliman offered pardon to the Death Korps for their crimes on behalf of the emperor they'd side with the rebels, but otherwise I can't ever see them betraying dogma. Cadians would side with gully and cawl, especially since he's working to replicate the pillars

>>53613909
>>53613928
>>53613930

YOU SEE THIS?
YOU SEE THIS SHIT?
THIS IS WHAT I MEAN WHEN MOST PEOPLE CAN ONLY LATCH ONTO "MUH PAPA" "MUH ARTHUR" "MUH MISUNDERSTANDINGS"!

ITS BEEN 10K YEARS AND HE IS STILL FIGHTING. HE IS THE FIRST TO HOLD HOPE, AND HE STILL CLINGS TO HOPE WHEN ALL OTHERS HAVE FALLEN OR PERISHED.

I lke Gulliman now more than before.

Also, this has to be set up for new primaris chaos marines. Also if I read correctly, Cawl wanted to dick around with missing primarchs geense seed?

>>53613928
Yes but they could still write him in a way where he had emotions, or some sort of personality. Nevermind how Guiliman or the primarchs feel, there is plenty baggage between them. It is just how he is portrayed in every manner in the new lore. Now, there are 0 things to like about him, you don't really feel like he did what he did because he loved humanity, but more like his arrogance made him think "beh, I totally got this

>>53613930
But that's shitty writing.
40k is supposed to be grimdark because things went to hell. It doesn't mean it always has been like that, there's never been hope. This way there is no reason to get invested in the story, EVER.

Maybe I am the idiot for becoming invested in the first place.

>>53613928
>The "tragic hero" is how people perceive his actions from the outside
That's the problem. We're not Imperium's citizens. We have meta knowledge, and we know that he's not a hero inside, which is a shame, because him being a well-intended hero makes his character better.
>>53613930
Edge and grimdark are retarded, grow up. Not all people are dicks for the sake of dickery.

>>53612887

Bullshit.

Op forgot to mention that Cawls AI, which he calls THE CAWL INFERIOR, because his ego is that big, is powered by THE WARP

Everything is pretty fucked gents

>>53614052
>Also, this has to be set up for new primaris chaos marines.
Traitor legion geneseed is no more likely to lead to Chaos than loyalist legion geneseed. Contrary to what the Imperium may say, treachery isn't a genetic trait.

>>53614050
Because he's too stubborn to quit. Hope has nothing to do with it, he knows the Imperiums fucked and he's failed.

>>53614085
And he wants to use traitor legions as a base for future primaris

>>53612177
>if he never pretended to love the Primarchs?
he never pretended

note how guilliman talks about "letting people think", "letting people say", it seems to me that the emperor never really tricked them into it, just never actively demolished their illusions.

except for lorgar's, I guess.

>>53614052

He has asked multiple times if he could use the traitor legion gene-seeds for Primaris Marines, and Guilliman suspects that Cawl will use them or has already used them despite him saying no.

Cawl also wants Guilliman to make him Fabricator-General of Mars.

>>53614085

...did you just day cawl has an AI? Okay seriously what the actual fuck. That's not kosher, not in the least.

>>53614105

ADB pls

>>53614100
were the WB were geneticly programed to follow their primarch? Or something like that?

>>53614073
>because him being a well-intended hero makes his character better
You're a fucking moron. Nothing has changed. NOTHING HAS CHANGED. He just didn't actually love the Primarchs. WHATEVER. HIS GOALS AND AMBITIONS ARE STILL THE SAME. He still loves humanity and has been suffering for 10k years to protect it. Stop whining you gaping pussy.

>>53614052
Their geneseed didn't turn them into traitors. In fact I remember that some traitor legions have an exceptionally pure geneseed

>>53614100

This. The root instigator of the heresy were the warrior lodges.

>>53614132
No. Lorgar just had 40 years to root out dissent in his legion. He thoroughly purged all the loyalist elements well before the Heresy began.

>>53614125
It's apparently a "warp-powered AI" which sounds pretty fucking exactly like the Machine Spirits admech love so much.

Cawl is over ten thousand years old and his body's gotta be entirely cybernetic, it's not unreasonable to expect a piece of archaeotech that old to have machine spirits in it. Except instead of a land raider or something it's his own body that''s haunted. Which is kinda funny if you think about it

>>53614125

Guilliman isn't sure if the Cawl Inferior is an AI or not, but he suspects that it actually is.

The Cawl Inferior also openly admits that humanities technology is pathetic in comparison to the Necron when they are talking about creating new pylons to seal the Cicatrix Maledictum and that Cawl's detractors in the Adeptus Mechanicus are fools for not innovating and harnessing the technology of Xenos.

>>53614182
>have an exceptionally pure geneseed
The Iron Warriors had the most stable geneseed of all legions. It's how their attrition strategy worked so well.

>>53610454
Is there anything about the conflict on Eskrador in the book? Where Guilliman supposedly kills Alpharius.

>>53613877
Now that you mention it, I wonder if the Alpha Legion is up to something.

>>53614227
Well duh, the AI isn't retarded.

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>>53614227
Indeed your technology is inferior, little child. But there are ways to improve, locked under the surface of Mars. If you'd just let me in for a short time...

>>53614216

Machine spirits are one thing, that's fine, but if it actually said AI then that's no bueno for me. AI are forbidden. They are antithema to the mechanicus. If the author used the term AI specifically he either knows absolutely nothing about the setting and the mechanicus, or there is some serious heresy going down here. Either way I'm pissed. If it said machine spirit, that's fine, but if the words AI were used then this is a bloody travesty.

Fuck, Cawl is a Heretek. Balls.

>>53614267
Machine Spirits and AI are literally the same thing. AI just has bigger network to work with.

>>53613082
YOU ARE TEARING ME APART HORUS

>>53614044
>So since the Inquisition has decided to be moronic and side against a Primarch,
It might be suicidal, but the sensible thing to do is be incredibly suspicious. Just off the top of my head

>A guy has come back from the dead
>A guy has come back from the dead thanks to alien magic
>A guy has come back from the dead thanks to alien magic and ludicrously heretical technology.
>The dead guy in question was one of 18 psychopaths, half of whom turned to chaos and ruined everything.
>Among the dead guy's first act is to overthrow the current government and install his own puppets.
>The dead guy's ludicrously heretical technologist has pulled out a legion of even more powerful space marines out of his arse, supposedly improving on the Emperor's design, along with their weapons, armour and equipment.
>The dead guy's alien friends include a giant, hermaphroditic horned purple demon-like creature which eats souls and helped destroy a major craftworld, and may have been born from a ritual the Deathwatch tried to stop, but which he swears is actually good.
>Around the time he came back the Eye of Terror exploded and the demon primarchs have been seen abroad for the first time in centuries.

Just one of these facts would send even a half-way responsible Inquisitor running for all the help they can get.

>>53614267
>A: Cawl claims it's just a highly advanced servitor.
>B: The mechanicus views Cawl as radical borderline tech heretic

Why would you be pissed?

So Cawl has a small warp voice inside his head. Like I don't know Fulgrim had.
And he wats to be fabricator general, and he wants to create all kinds of primaris marines. And wants to use xeno tech.
Gulliman, cut this guy loose.

>>53614288
Machine spirits tend to be quirks associated with a device, remember all the flailing about you did to try turn the TV on with that busted remote until it finally did? imagine that but ritualized

>>53614288

Except they aren't the same thing. We speculate that they may be, but per cannon they are no confirmed to be one and the same. You forget that this is a setting with actual demons and space magic, they could indeed be machine spirits. The important thing is that AI, abominable intelligences, are absolutely forbidden and universally reviled by both the mechanicus and the imperium. If they are forgetting that integral bit of lore I'm pretty damn pissed.

>>53614327
The guy just wants to build neat stuff for the Imperium.

>>53611634
gOOD stuff

>>53614233
I think it was the Night Lords or the Alpha Legion.

>>53614147
Not the same guy, but I have to agree that being well-intended would have helped a lot in his character.

How can he really care for the faceless masses of humanity, if he can't really care for his own creations who have looked up to him, and deeply cared about him?

I know about the Thunder Warriors but were they really the same as people? (I actually don't know) Because the fact that he planned for the Primarchs after the crusade shows he cared about them more than the TW

>>53614321

I'd only be pissed if they were using AI and it was K. I'm also somewhat annoyed that Cawl turned out to be a Heretek, but I guess they want to change up the mechanicus and erase what makes them them and make them more palatable for your average idiot, so it makes sense.

>>53614327
Cawl is making the Imperium great again, faggot. Get onboard or stay out of the way.

>>53614327
As soon as he can find someone to look after the Robot Guilliman that now makes up like 90% of his body I'm sure I will.

On the other hand Cawl is a polymath, a genius and probably a little insane, so finding someone who can take his place may be a bit tricky.

Though given his dedication he may at least not have installed a backdoor into the armour - he doesn't seem malicious in that respect

>>53614331
>>53614347

The ONLY reason why no AI (however defective) is called AI is because of its association to the Men of Iron and the mechanical horrors which plagued the age. A machine spirit that is any smarter than the average Land Raider is not automatically some Dark Mechanicum tier abomination.

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>>53614347
I mean, it might not be an AI that wants access to traitor geneseed and alien artefacts. It might just be a very powerful, highly intelligent warp-entity bound to a complex machine which is coincidentally very similar to Cawl.

Nothing to worry about.

I love how the book depicts new, not yet seen primaris units and stuff
>Aggressors - Gravis clad warriors with shoulder mounted missile launchers and flame gauntlets.

>Reivers - Armor that is adapted for stealth. Death's Head masks and a extra large left pauldron. Heavy Bolt Pistol and an extra large combat knife with a disruptor field. Infiltration and close combat specialists.

>The new vehicle mentioned is the Overlord. It is described as being similar to the Corvus Blackstars of the Deathwatch.