Warhammer 40,00 General /40kg/

Didn't the old thread get nuked because certain Tyranid fangirl went overboard with celebratory rites welcoming new edition?

Posting again for replies

So lads I recently got back into 40k after a decade of withdrawal from my resin addiction and have decided to start anew with a steel legion army.

I kicked it off right away by getting a couple of models to start with:
>Commisar Yarrick
>1 infantry sqaud
>1 heavy bolter unit
>1 lascannon unit
>1 Chimera
>and to top it off one commamder.

The focus of my army is that of mechanised infantry whilst trying to stay as loyal to the fluff imperal guard structure as possible.

My route of action was that of bulking out with chimeras and masses of infantry with a couple of leman russ executioners and rounding off my heavy weapons teams.

Am i doing it right or headed down a dreaded path of no return?

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>>53579447

>>53579528
What a dick

>>53579484

If it did and i missed it...actually I don't give a shit, but that might have been nice to see.

can some one tell me how flamers work in overwatch in 8th ? like do they get d6 hits?

>>53583696
Yes

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What's expected to be the "tournament standard" amount of points? Both power points and the 1000-something points we're used to?

>>53579447
Jesus christ shadowsun's finecast pose is trash. I had to cut the fuck out of her legs to fix that abomination

>Chaos Space Marines can drop their bolters for a Chainsword
>can take special/heavy
>can take another at 10 models
>only one can take a plasma pistol
>ever

Why

Any ideas on what to put in new guard lists? I'm thinking

>vet squads with snipers and a heavy weapon
>20-30man conscripts as troops
>Lots of commissars, maybe a lord with powerfist as melee backup
>Power weapons on sergeants are so cheap why not take them
>Taking a few russ variants, maybe 2 punishers and an executioner
>Plasma armoured sentinels, oh yes I'm so hype for these babies

>>53584339
Smart ass answer: Because a new generation of gamer realized they were trying too fucking hard and they are more akin to old gray-haired and bearded men waddling around in renaissance plate armor than anything particularly bad ass you'd want to aspire to.

"Real" answer: They cut themselves off from a vast government that dedicated a shitload of resources towards building and maintaining all their high-tech equipment. It actually makes sense.

>>53584425
Whatever list you build, you better fucking spend most your points on vehicles if you ever want to actually win.

But some guard players actually get off on watching their own flootsloggers die out in the open as much as their opponent does. So hey, man, you do you.

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Ok, fan theory time:

Alex Jones is an Imperial Inquisitor who has been trapped in the past by vile Chaos sorcery, and his show is him trying to perpetuate Inquisitorial fears.

Listen to him and tell me that this isn't exactly what an Inquisitor would say: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1UCGV441wQ

>>53584339

Why can only 1 in 5 nobz take a cybork body?

Arbitrary restrictions

Convince our local WAACfag that he will get wrecked because all he did was spam the cheesiest of 7th ed Eldar.

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>berzerkers with a chainsword/chainaxe in each hand
the future is now

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Please r8 my 1500 point Tyranid list.

Not shown because the website calculates their points incorrectly- 20 genestealers w/ adrenal glands for 260 points.

>>53584789
also I forgot to note:

The Hive Tyrant is actually going to be kitted out with 2x Scything Talons, but the website doesn't have their points set up correctly, so I chose the loadout that has the amount of points as a stand in.

My Hive Tyrant has two scything talons and adrenal glands.

Since stern guard lost their special ammo and just got a new bolter so combis got nerfed for them imo
The only reason to take them is those bolters and access to heavy framers
Otherwise company veterans are better?

They can look out sir and are fully customizable

>>53579512

is this recaster stuff?

they still sell the metal ones btb if you ever want the urge to buy them.

desu Chimeras are pretty much overpointed now so Mech Guard is expensive (pointswise) to play. Taurox are amazing now if you are okay with the model or at least converting it. I'm pretty sure at some point the armageddon fluff will have steel legion in Taurox (if it doesnt already) if youre worried about cheese. A couple of Taurox to help round out your steel legion squads with twin autocannons and punisher cannons too is gud but you cant transport regular infantry if you do take that option .

Stack some demolishers and punishers too. They're objectively the best variants right now on a 6x4 table.

Basilisks are dirt cheap at 100pts with t6 11 wounds and a 3+ while being able to hide and still shoot with no minimum range and objectively having a better cannon than the regular leman russ. They are probably gonna be a sleeper hit in the new book unless nobody can be arsed to buy the model.

honestly all the artillery looks really good.

>>53579484
wait what?

>>53584789
Not enough synapse, if you're going to have only one tyrant keep it grounded with tyrant guard, you don't have enough units to burrow with the trygon to keep focus from your lictor (which should be a deathleaper), if you're taking a trygon don't take a mawloc which is pretty mediocre anyway, if you're taking a trygon always take two units to join him for target saturation. Biovores and especially zoanthropes are too good to not take now. To be honest tervigon are too much of a juicy target to expect to survive very long. You'd be better off with more starting troops and tyrants w/guard.

Hey guys guess what
[Spoiler] Celestine isn't a unique choice and her +1 to invulns stacks [/spoiler]

>>53584982
>Not enough synapse

Not really a problem this edition. All of my assault units are showing up turn 1, and will be positioned so that the enemy unit closest to them is the unit I want to charge.

Then turn 1 or 2, the Flying Hive Tyrant will be zipping up to combat to provide synapse to the Genestealers so they don't die from battleshock.

>if you're going to have only one tyrant keep it grounded with tyrant guard, you don't have enough units to burrow with the trygon to keep focus from your lictor
>if you're taking a trygon always take two units to join him for target saturation
>To be honest tervigon are too much of a juicy target to expect to survive very long.

I mean... the enemy can't shoot them all. That's target saturation in itself.

>>53585009

oh no.

6 months of 2+ invuln sisters running around everywhere.

T H E M O S T P L A Y T E S T E D E D I T I O N E V E R

>>53585065
2000 points:
Detachment one:
Celestine
Celestine
Seraphimx5 2x2 hand flamers
Seraphimx5 2x2 hand flamers
Seraphimx5 2x2 hand flamers
Detachment two:
Celestine
Celestine
Seraphimx5 2x2 hand flamers
Seraphimx5 2x2 hand flamers
Seraphimx5 2x2 hand flamers
Detachment three
Detachment one:
Celestine
Seraphimx5 2x2 hand flamers
Seraphimx5 2x2 hand flamers
Seraphimx5 2x2 hand flamers

2++ reroll able on everything, 5 auto acts of faith to get any models that die back

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Im hyped as fuck this edition

Going to go to the midnight launch and playing a big apoc game with my Orks with the leaked rules

>>53585065

Yes because it will take them that long to FAQ it.

>>53585092

wew lad only 20 bongdollars on ebay too its not out of the realm of cheesy fucking cunts to buy either.

My cheeks are clenched.

Where did you find this out? or did you figure it out?

>>53585125
Figured it out this morning. Playtested it 3 times and it's unbeatable by everything we tried

So what is the new faction?

>sitting on shitter
>start reading through narrative games
>they're fucking awesome
>all of them

Fuck using points. Narrative games a best

>>53585144
death guard

>>53585124

They'll wait until christmas for chapter approved shit to let all the good goys buy up celestine boxes.


>>53585138

top jej

sell the info to BOLS before anyone else gets the scoop. probs already too late but oh well.

>>53585009
>Celestine isn't a unique choice

RAI is so clearly obvious that it's bigger than the dick currently up your ass

Making a mixed Orks / Genestealer cult using the wu tang clan connection for this edition. So hyped.

>>53584545
No way, that dude is a Ministorum Priest in the Imperial Guard.

>>53585164

No I'd be willing to bet its a day 1 FAQ.

>>53585164
Don't make it obvious, I'm taking it to a GT on July first!

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>>53585030
It's just not enough target saturation

Not saying my list is much better at 2k but still

>>53585162

How are they in any way a new faction?

>>53585092
>implying you'll get any games or be allowed in any tournaments with that list

The only victories you'll have are all the games you won't be playing that you "count as a win because if you refuse to play me you forfeit"

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>>53584444
Vrooooom

>>53585125
I was gonna write greentext about someone buying 5 celestines and playing them with a straight face, thinking they've found some power combo that isn't an obvious oversight. And THEN being super assmad that it gets FAQ'd or errata'd and go online and bitch about it.

But I know for a fact that this will happen, somewhere.

Fucks sakes.

>>53585196
they werent a faction, they were part of csm

now theyre a faction like tsons

>>53585187

No worries I've already sent it in to the FLGS/ITC team so I'll make sure it gets plenty of publicity in all the major organizer circuits.

>>53585207
>But I know for a fact that this will happen, somewhere.

People are already planning out armies with the Wu Tang Clan Conundrum unironically. They're going to get double assblasted when it gets faq'd.

>>53585201
>>53585207
Well yeah, obviously an oversight, but for the three weeks or whatever until FAQs are out it's legal

so are orks still horrible

Wtf do necron players even do in the hobby? They can spray paint their shit sliver, and it will look the same as every other necron. whats the point

>>53585236

what wu tang clan shit?

Are the rules for 8th free? The new books are optional right?

>>53585240
No way to tell atm

>>53585240

Incorrect.

Putzing around with the new Chaos stuff, came up with this at roughly 2k points, though I got some points floating around still as I don't know the costs associated with marks are in 8th.

Detachment 1 -- Battalion (Chaos/Nurgle)
HQ:
Epidemius. 100 pts

Warpsmith with basic kit, MoNurgle. 109? pts

Troops:
Plague Bearers x14, Daemonic Icon. 137 pts

Plague Bearers x14, Daemonic Icon. 137 pts

Plague Marines x7, Plague Sword, Plasma Gun x2. 176 pts

Fast Attack:
Foetid Blight Drone. 158 pts

Foetid Blight Drone. 158 pts

Plague Drones x3. 157 pts

Elites:
Mutilators x3, MoNurgle. 195? pts

Heavy Support:
Havocs x5, Autocannon x4, MoNurgle. 145? pts


Detachment 2 -- Auxiliary Super Heavy Detachment:
Lord of War:
Renegade Knight, Thermal Cannon, Thunderstrike Gauntlet, Melta Gun. 448 pts.


>>53585192
What are you using to build your list there? Every so often I see one like that, but I can never figure out what generates it.

>>53585244
You can paint them differently you know.

>>53585253

Basically some faggot said if he named his custom chapter/sept/klan/kabal keyword "Wu Tang Clan", then all armies became super battle brothers, because "Wu Tang Clan" the Sept gets the same bonuses as "Wu Tang Clan" the chapter.

Even though the rules clearly and explicitly mention words like "chapter" "sept" and "kabal" right there in the name (e.g. "T'au Sept")

>>53585264
Where do you think we are

>>53585253

The game never checks to see if the keyword has any metadata, it only checks to see if keywords match. If you name the customizable Faction Keywords "Wu Tang Clan," suddenly two factions share a Faction Keyword "Wu Tang Clan" and they can ally :^)

>>53585264

The Indexes are in no way optional - they are required. The core rules are going to be free for download but they do not include the rules for matched play (i.e. force org charts, things like that).

>>53585244
There's beauty in simplicity, in uniformity. In solidarity.

>>53585288

And that will work until the first early FAQs - the real key here is don't come on /tg/ and whine when it gets FAQ'd.

Is there going to be digital rules/indexes?

>>53585238
Are you familiar with the euthyphro dilemma?

>>53585244

This is why I like the Canoptek stuff so much. Plus the Warrior hordes are so easy to paint and still look good.

I'm not a Necron player though.

>>53585313

When it gets faq'd, it gets faq'd. Until then, it's perfectly valid.

>>53585313
>the real key here is don't come on /tg/ and whine

You should know better than to expect this --
from anyone...about anything -- on /tg/.

>>53585092
You can only have one celestine per army. that's in her rules.

Cant wait to roll up to the lfgs with my friendly, fluffy 5 celestine list

>>53585264
When you buy new kits they're going to come with the appropriate datasheet. Other than that it'll just be the very basic rules for free so new players can play without buying any books. Everyone else will need indexes plus rulebook to play proper games.

Has anyone noticed that IG transports are kinda...redundant?

I mean, the Chimera moves 10+D6 Inches if it doesn't shoot, and only hits with 1 HB and 1 ML if it does shoot. 6 HB shots and 6 ML shots over a game hardly sounds worthwhile. And all this for 93 points. Plus, they must disembark troops BEFORE moving!

The Taurox is slightly better being 85 points, 14+D6 max range and 4 Autocannon shots that aren't really good but at least are high enough strength to kill guardsmen if they hit. Again, must disembark before moving.

But a platoon commander costs 20 points, and comes with 3 attacks, an invuln save, and orders. Most critically, he can follow the squad during movement and during shooting order Move, Move, Move. That gives your infantry a range of 14" minimum, and up to 24". So if your infantry isn't shooting anyways because they're in a transport or running, why not just run? It's faster, you get other orders out of it, and the platoon commander while left behind can catch up next turn and in the interim creates a nice 18" wide corridor of no-deepstrike between your vanguard and your main infantry force. Plus, the order works for conscript blobs that can't fit inside a transport. You can then spend 57 points on an autocannon squad that performs both the chimera and the tuarox's medium strength weapons platform role even better, and some gear for the platoon commander to let him support the advancing squad. All that and your still undercosting the vehicles dedicated to actually moving the troops.

So what's the point? Keeping the troops alive doesn't matter when you can instead double the amount of troops and target saturate the battlefield with men instead. Transport or no you still can't fire your guns, the transport iself is outclassed by HWTs giving covering fire, and the actual range of the transports is outpaced by the infantry on foot!

So long as you use this ability wisely i.e. running the troops to cover, it feels like transports are a waste.

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What other factions got wrecked like the Thousand Sons?
>access to 3 non-repeatable spells
>squad psykers heavily nerfed
>invulnerable saves dropped across the board
>Ahriman a chump
>Exalted Lost his bombardment and no Seer's Bane or Astral Grimoire

>>53585330
>using 5 of a named character
>perfectly valid
>unironically thinking this

Holy shit you guys.

>>53585330
>it's perfectly valid

Except GW has stated that RAI trumps RAW. Ergo, by both RAI and GW's RAW statement, your RAW exploits are not valid.

>>53585270
https://webapplications-webroster.rhcloud.com/rc/web/index.html#!/rosterCreator

>>53584545
holy fucking kek he is inquisitor jones

>>53585348
Where?
>>53585355
:^)

>>53585352
Transports are so obscenely expensive across the board I'm wondering at their purpose. Especially as someone who tries very hard to never footslog anything.

>>53585330

Sure - I wouldn't play you regardless so it doesn't really matter to me and I know how the ITC will rule on it so I'm safe in knowing I won't have to play against anyone else doing it at large events.

>>53584235
50 power points are generally around 1000 points but kept in mind, points wise, most stuff is a bit more expensive.

>>53585386

Something to keep in mine - having less drops than your opponent is a good thing now so you're able to decrease your total drops with transports.

>>53585270
>Marks
You just pick a god keyword. They do nothing on their own.

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>I play Chaos Space Marines

>>53585410
I was wondering about that.

I still haven't convinced myself I can use a bloat drone in non-death guard.

So, my store usually ran 850 point games to keep them short and simple. Will these clock in higher this edition or lower?

My gut is telling me that generally those 850 armies and games will end up at a 1000 point mark now.

>>53585435
But they are incredibly religious.
Fedora fits more Tau than anything.

>>53585240
Yep.

>>53585168
How does this involve the Wu Tang Clan?

>>53585177
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X9RUOEOoNQ

Are you sure?

>>53585240
no. they look very good.

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Alright, newfag here. With 8th edition dropping soon I thought I should jump on the bandwagon and try my hand at this Warhammer stuff. I've already scoped out my local gaming store and decided on the Battle for Vedros Marine Expansion thing (pic related: http://www.atomicempire.com/item.aspx?item=196283) since it looked cool and $10ish is a good amount to spend on finding out if I'll like this hobby.

So, with that said, does anyone here have any tips for a newguy? Painting help will always be appreciated but is there anything I should know that a complete stranger like me wouldn't even think of? Should I stay away from anything entirely? Places I should go to buy minis instead of GW.com or my local store? Anything at all would be appreciated.

>>53585488
I fucking love this man
>yfw everythting he says is true

>>53585352

well the design team heard that transports were too cheap so then decided that turning them all into monstrous creatures was a good idea to make them obscenely expensive.

Or ya know. there should be a discount for taking a squad with a transport to make it a viable option instead of just spamming more troop choices.

>>53585244
I am a gamer, not a modeling hobbyist.

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I've been reading the new rules and this got me concerned.
Does it mean that if I had a custom chapter "Emperors Buttbuddies" that counted as Ultramarines successor it would prevent me from taking Gulliman and affecting my army?
Doesn't this completely kill off any reason to play any chapter other than big 4 since you would be restricted only to vanilla commanders, weapons and vehicles? Are we just stuck with play "ultra/da/ba/sw or gtfo?"
It seems the same with CSM with how much better Abbadon is compared to other HQ and making anything other than Black Legion/DG just worse, if not pointless to play.

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>>53585514
>I am a gamer

>>53585482
Wu Tang Clan is the name being used for the tactic of giving units from different factions the same Custom Keyword. That placeholder of <Sept> or <Craftworld> or <Chapter> that you fill in yourself. If every unit has the Keyword <Wu Tang Clan> or whatever you want, then you can use them all. At least, that's the WAACfag justification anyway.

>>53585524

It's a suggestion. Here's how you work around it - you don't take their suggestion, you paint your models whatever color you want and don't change their key word. Done.

>>53585524
Just do the same thing as chapter tactics and say they're a different chapter while using ultramarine rules.

Anyone got the Google Doc folder with the full Index photos?

Want to do some army test builds and since we obviously have no list builder yet, manual's gotta do.

>>53585524
>vanilla commanders, weapons and vehicles
If you have Flesh Tearers, a BAngel successor, you can use sanguinary guard, Baal Predators, etc, you just cant use Dante or Mephiston, who are unique characters.

>>53585524
Only insofar as it affected anyone else in the previous editions who had BA/DA/SW armies who used BA/DA/SW rules for their successor chapters. Asking this is like asking whether or not I wouldn't be able to use the Space Wolves codex for a Space Wolves successor chapter. For the purpose of your army they'll just have the keyword of their founding chapter.

For those that have read IMP INX #2, how does my admech army look?

>Dominus with Eradication Ray, Macrostubber
>Rangers with omnispex, arquebus, plasma, alphpa has taser goad and radium pistol
>2nd Rangers with plasma, arquebus, arc rirfle, and alpha has arc pistol and power sword
>Vanguard have 2 plasma, Alpha with power sword and radium pistol
>2nd Vanguard have alpha with phospher pistol, power sword
>All other troops have galvanic rifle/radium carbine

>Kastellan Robots
>Normal Datasmith, gamma pistol/power fist
>1 Robot w/ incendine combustor, 1 with heavy phosphor blaster

>1 dunecrawler with eradication beamer

>>53585386
being extremely tough.
Oh, their expensive, and now you are paying more for the package than the contents a lot of the time (or very similar cast).

But a rhino has T7 and 10 wounds, a 3+ save and can benefit from cover.
Sure stuff like krak missiles do multiple wounds. But look at the math
S8 vs t7 3+ to wound.
-2 save so 5+ or 4+ if in cover.
d6 damage, so average of 3.5.
that's average damage of 1.52 (1.15 in cover) per hit.
That means you need 7+ krack missile hits on average to take down that rhino.
sure it slows down a bit as you damage it, but until that last 2 points it's still speed 6".

There is no more one shotting with a lucky roll (2 shotting with extreme luck, but moving on), no more immobilize result (only speed 2 at the last 2 points).

sure it's the same cost as a 5 man tact squad, but how is that squad going to hold up to 7+ krack missile hits?

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>>53585482

The guy who figured it out used Wu Tang Clan as an example. Autists ran with it.

>>53585524
No. For any competitive game where this matter you just say you're counting your chapter AS Ultramarines. You'll be playing with Ultramarines for all purposes. Just because your dudes are blue-green or whatever and don't have a toilet seat on their shoulder doesn't mean they can't be Ultramarines rules wise.

All this really means is that you can't mix special characters. You can't have both Seth and Lemartes in your "Blood Dudes" detachment.

>>53585168
>for this edition
Well as long as you're not worried about them being faqed out of matched play shortly. Buying models based on it would be pretty damned foolish.

>when the shading's just right
I wish my only available camera wasn't a fucking potato.

Going to play a game tomorrow with leaked rules. How many orks should I bring?

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>>53585686
>idiot WAACfags will do it anyway and then come and bitch on /tg/ when its rightfully fixed

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>this is now 1500 points worth of guard

Based geedubs, gotta sell them infantry boxes. If I ditched celetine I could put another 5-6 infantry squads with heavy weapons. Also please no bully, not finished yet.

>>53585622
Wu Tang Clan Sept =/ Wu Tang Clan Kabal

>>53585622

The fact that this dumb motherfucker used the phrase "Sept keyword" and can differentiate between the keyword "Wu Tang Clan (from Tau)" and "Wu Tang Clan (from DE)" already shows why this would never fly and is obviously wrong.

>>53585722
NEEDS
MOAR
HEAVY
WEAPONS
PLATFORMS

>>53585354
>non-repeatable spells
>he plays matched play
>not glorious narrative play

Have fun dealing with 5 Celestines of the Wu Tang Clan while my friends and I drop bombs on each others hidden units trying to break through his line, faggot.

>>53585723
>>53585728

No rule says you add the word "Sept" or "Kabal" to the keyword. Example: "Farsight Enclaves."

>>53585617
small arms fire can damage them, sure, but lets look at expensive and fragile ork trukk.
s6 w10 sv4+
lasguns are wounding on 6s, other light guns all on 5s. so .33.
have save, so .166.
Over 50 hits.

Even a heavy bolter, that thing that could pop open trukks with ease before.
5+ to wound, 5+ save. less than half a wound per hit. 20 hits.
How many heavy bolter hits did it take to open a truck before.
scatterlaser and multilasers are 4+ to wound but 4+ save. so still half a wound per hit.
I assure you 10 multilaser hits destroyed the trukk fine, now it's still moving at speed 8.

all of this was assuming no cover btw.

>>53585750

Enjoy being banished to narrative land where only you and your friends fellate each other. When you're ready to take off the kid swimmies, matched play and real rules await.

>>53585501
See
>>53581222

Fact:
If you are under eight feet tall you are a marinelet. No chapter master wants 7'6 marines. Enjoy being forced to deploy to shitty swamp planets while your glorious Primaris overlords embark on heroic crusades to retake the most valuable worlds in the imperium.

>>53585728
Also Farsight Enclaves getting called out as a special exception so that they can still work even though FE aren't a Sept. Basically the RAI intended are crystal clear, whereas RAW is at most ambiguous.

>>53584444
>spend most your points on vehicles if you ever want to actually win
So what if you're building an armored regiment and want to take mostly Leman Russ tanks with a few pieces of artillery/aircraft as support? I just want to have my Lemans roll through the field with a mix of either Wyverns, Manticores, Vultures or Vendettas to keep em safe.

>>53585757
>Example

That's not an example, because Farsight Enclaves is not a custom keyword.

>No rule says you add the word "Sept"

It literally says "Sept" in the line talking about the example, and then gives you an example keyword with the word Sept in it.

>>53585244
Wtf do space marine players even do in the hobby? They can spray paint their shit blue, and it will look the same as every other space marine. whats the point

>>53585740
Is fucking 7 platforms not enough? Do I need like another 6-8?

>>53585811

Because GW intended everyone to match keywords with their special characters. We're not doing that, we're making up our own factions.

>>53585829
You need to take as many as you can fit in your deployment zone

>>53585831
What you're doing is playing open play and pretending it's matched play.

>>53585831

And you won't be allowed to after they FAQ? It doesn't matter that you can do it right now - you will not be able to for any real length of time during this edition.

>>53585844
I'm pretty sure I will be fine with another squad or two. I'm not fucking maxing out every detachment with heavy weapons.

>>53585851

>Implying I'm going to do it.

I'm arguing because it's currently a valid tactic, and RAW will ALWAYS take precedence over RAI in a theoretical discussion. I like my Orks just where they are right now, I'm not planning on allying anything. When it gets faq'd, I'll shut up. But for now there's nothing that can be done beyond "Hope for a FAQ."

>>53584789
>20 genestealers w/ adrenal glands for 260 points.
Genestealers can't take adrenal glands

>>53585909
They used to in 4th and it was awesome.

>>53585885

Right but the main point here is it doesn't matter that you can because going forward you will not be able to. Who cares if you can do it right now - why even bother discussing it when it will be irrelevant?

>>53585866
You don't max out every detachment, IG are one of few that can afford to take multiple detachments and accrue a ton of command points by filling with platforms while meeting minimum requirements cheaply.

>>53585930

Up to 3 detachments since I'd be willing to bet most tournaments are going to run with that since its stated that's where you should be at 2k.

>>53584789
>Trygons only 180 points now

Jesus Christ. That's like the same price as a kitted out leman Russ.

Do vehicles just vanish when they die? No more wrecks?

I'm ok with most of the games streamlining most of the time, but this one just seems weird and dumb.

Can someone give me a WAAC tier list?

>>53585885
>currently a valid tactic
It's a theoretical tactic. There nowhere that you can actually use it.

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>>53585946
This thing is 665 points if you add a hunter kill, storm bolter, and multi melta.

Vehicles just cost way more this edition, the game is going to be totally different now. Just compare things to other things in the same edition, comparisons to the previous edition are totally meaningless.

>>53585947
Most of them explode and can cause mortal wounds to things nearby.

>>53585354
Tzeentch daemons took the brunt of the psychic phase being destroyed, coupled with points increases across the board and horrors receiving lasguns in exchange for all of their mind dakka and versatility.

Summoning died a well deserved death though.

>>53585761
the more expensive Wave serpent. T7 W13 Sv3+.
serpent shield drops all dmg by 1 (min 1), so light fire still whittles it down (slowly) and a close range melta is going to do a chunk of damage (but not can't one shot). but autocannons and plasma gun/cannons are going to take a long time
(the WS price increase is actually pretty small, and losing holofield and jink means it's total survivability is similar).
DEldar transports, only t5 so a fair bit wound on 3+, but 6/10 wounds compaired to 2/3 and a vehicle damage table that made them fireworks. Also 5+ invuln save.

Lets go super expensive. The land raider. 19pts. FUCK.
On shotting land raiders with a bright/dark lance was an unlikely thing, that I have seen several times. Lucky melta gun blow up? not even that low of a chance (>25% chance of immoblized which was basically enough).
Now T8, 16 Wounds, 2+ save.
Your talking 5+ HITS from close range meltaguns to even cripple it.
From a distance, Dark Lances etc. over 10 hits, without cover to cripple.

>>53585929

Because at the moment it IS relevant, it IS possible because faction keywords don't check metadata. It's an easy fix. Just make <Sept> and <Craftworld> a unit keyword instead of faction keyword, and you're golden. You have to assume someone WILL do it, and you may not get the chance to refuse a game in the interim time. It's ideal to know how to combat it if you're in a tournament or so.

>but no REAL tournament will allow it.

No true scotsman. If they're houseruling RAW outside of a faq, then you have the high ground.

>>53585885
Theory doesn't matter, no one will willingly play you if you try this and no tournament will let it happen.

>>53585771
>being this mad about points

Have fun controlling those objectives. Try not to tie!

>>53584545
always pumps me up

>>53585975
Yeah but exploding vehicles still leave a giant hunk or metal or some sort of crater. But in this new game they just vanish?

How doe a stompa just turn invisible?

>No true scotsman. If they're houseruling RAW outside of a faq, then you have the high ground.

And if they're houseruling that you have to eat any model that dies then you gotta eat it.

It doesn't mean it's gonna happen.

>>53585927
There was literally no reason to in 4th, back then they added to either Weapon Skill or Initiative and stealers already had both stats at 6.

>>53584545
This is an Inquisitor of the Ordo Chronos trying to warn us of the High Lords.

>>53585952
There are none yet except spamming brimstone horrors.

>>53585572
Problem is gaining Seth isn't worth losing Dante, Mephiston, Corbulo, Lemartes, Astorath, both version of Tycho, and the Sanguinor. The last one doesn't even make sense considering that he fights alongside Son of Sanguinius who is in dire straights, regardless of whether or not they're a Successor Chapter or not.

I get why they did it, but it's a huge hit to Successor Chapters who used the rules for named characters in their army, fluffing them as someone from their own Chapter. At least officially, you can no longer have Head Bibliothecary Mephistopheles in your homebrew Angels of Blood army.

Honestly I'm not sure how much any of this matter right now. If all you need to make a legal detachment is units that have share a keyword, what's stopping you from using the "Imperial" keyword instead of "Blood Angels"? Wouldn't that allow you to take both Dante and Seth in the same detachment even though they're from different Chapters? Do you even get anything special for basing your army around a Chapter keyword right now since there's no Chapter Tactics in the Index?

Also, BA Cataphractii and Tartaros when? Why do no-name Vanilla Space Marine Chapters get access to them while First Founding Chapters do not?

>>53585987

It's super easy to refuse though. As soon as I see you attempt to do it I will stop the game. Much the same as I have already emailed/messaged every event listed in the ITC circuit about it.

Ultimately 'having the high ground' is useless if the tournament rules against it. You either play by their rules or you don't play.

>>53585885
>and RAW will ALWAYS take precedence over RAI in a theoretical discussion.

GW literally said this is wrong.

>>53585987
>>but no REAL tournament will allow it.
>No true scotsman. If they're houseruling RAW outside of a faq, then you have the high ground.
>WAACfags literally believe this
Enjoy "having the high ground" while you sit in the corner and watch everyone else play the tournament without you because the TOs banned you for being an autistic bitch.

Have Sisters leaks happened yet? I literally only glue and paint Sentinels and Leman Russes, because I like them, but I'm thinking of picking up Sisters as my army because I love their aesthetic.

>>53585987

Your RAW exploit isn't even right by RAW and you're trying to claim high ground and logical fallacies. Absolutely pathetic.

>>53586056
You can take everything together, you just won't benefit from special rules that target specific keywords. This is to stop too much buff stacking.

>>53586012
explode result took the vehicle off the table in 7th too.

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Is now a good time to get into the game? I've wanted to for several years but I never had the funds or friends into it. Now I do know a few people (they live several hours away but still) that play the game and 8ed looks like it might be a good time for the game.

I've been wondering between Orkz, Grey Knights, Salamander marines, Deathwatch and Genestealer Cults, and well two of my friends already play the first two, and the GSC look like they're going to be gutted by a bit by having formations removed in 8e, though they were never a fully complete army to begin with with no fliers, and only two APCs and Sentinels to back them up.

So more than likely I'll be going Salamanders and/or Deathwatch. How are they? Plus my Deathwatch would go well with my friend's Grey Knights/Sisters/Inquisition army.

So what parts are compatible between the old marine kits and the new ones? The heads, pauldrons and maybe the weapons?

>>53586056
Most characters don't really effect the game that much at this point. Mephiston is a tiny bit better than a regular librarian because he has like one minor special rule.

With a few small exceptions it's really not that big of a deal in this edition.

>>53586012
Replacing them with a crater terrain feature would make a great house rule. But no, vehicles are removed from play for expediency and speed of play which was a focus of 8th edition core rules. Keep in mind that non LOS blocking terrain is much less impactful overall in this edition, so not having the wreck isn't a huge deal in practical terms for most vehicles.

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>>53585501
BfV has three models in it, which with the new casual power points method if playing you COULD use for a game, but to see if you like the hobby just go back to your flgs and hang out watch some people play and ask for some practice games. After that if youre into it buy what you want dude!

>>53586090

Not him, but in our shop a couple of us offer rides to others, and if one person gets BTFO by a rules change, they leave and take a bunch of others with them. This is a real problem for me, since at least two of the people are planning on making Taudar lists again with this, and if they leave, our store is going to suffer.

>>53586103
But there's no wreck result now?

Like, is there no way for a vehicle to remain on the table? Because that just makes me sad. Vehicle wrecks were flavorful, didn't increase the complexity of a game at all, and made for a dynamic field of play.

>>53586110
>Most characters don't really effect the game that much at this point.
You're joking right.

8th is clearly fucking herohammer, most Special Characters are fucking mandatory they're so obscenely undercosted and have force multiplier abilities that buff everyone around them.

Nids basically cannot even run Carnifexes without Old One Eye.

>>53586056

But it doesn't stop that - there is nothing that stops you from calling Dante 'Lord Humongous' - using all the rules for him and keeping the BA keyword and using him in your successor chapter 'The Wasteland Raiders' who also keep the BA keyword.

As long as the Keywords are correct then everything still works. Also to be clear this all says it is a SUGGESTION - it is in no way a rule. Additionally there are no listed rules stating that to use Dante you must use his model - so as long as the profile is 100% Dante it doesn't matter, just don't swap key words.

>>53586095

It works by RAW, you're just so caught up on RAI that you are mixing the two. Nothing can be done about a person's hurt feelings. It's no skin off my back when it's FAQ'd.

>>53586131

Then just fucking laugh at them once it gets FAQ'd - like it probably will day one.

Also why fucking Taudar - are they so bad as to just try to build fucking internet Buzzwords with no god damn idea that its bad?

>>53586131
It's probably better for you to not play with the kind of manipulative manchildren that would do that to your gaming group because they can no longer cheat to play lore-raping WAACfag armies of the most autistic kind

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Was this included just for WAACfags?
I can't think of why you would ever use it, or how it could ever be anything but detrimental in matched play, unless you were running one single unit from a different subfaction and absolutely needed their faction-dependent special rule to be active, or you wanted to cheese Guard into your Tyranid army with a 50-point Genestealer detachment for Brood Brothers.

>>53586131

Are you worried about them playing Taudar? Do people not fucking realize that doing this is actually shit? Is your store so filled with WAACfags who aren't even good at the game that they cling to the idea of Taudar like some fucking totem?

>>53586132
> didn't increase the complexity of a game at all
yes they did.
They required the vehicle damage table (another table), they required that what happens to models being different (why doesn't the giant monster leave a corpse etc), they could mess up where units could be placed for objectives.
If the unit was in a combat, now you have a space being taken up by a terrain which used to be a unit.

I'll admit, it wasn't hugely complex, but it did add complexity. Now when a unit is killed, it's taken off the table. Units on the table are alive. Period.

>>53586189

A good WAACfag would never take it because the loss in CP isn't worth it.

>>53586138
>You're joking right.

No, but I'm not an autist that blows a single mono target aura ability that is replicable by multiple other sources out of proportion.

>8th is clearly fucking herohammer, most Special Characters are fucking mandatory they're so obscenely undercosted and have force multiplier abilities that buff everyone around them.

Yes, and most of them overlap and share abilities with basic units. The sanguinors +1 attack sure does seem nice except he costs as much as a squad and a chaplain lets them reroll everything which is mathematically superior anyway.

>Nids basically cannot even run Carnifexes without Old One Eye.

Yes, a character that can easily be shot to death and which only buffs one specific unit type within a very short range. Ignoring the plethora of mellee buffs available in the tyranid force that DONT have all those restrictions.

He's good, but he's hardly mandatory.

>>53586193

I'm worried that if the two Taudarfags leave in a butthurt mess, they take 2-3 more people with them, and gut any potential tournament we can hold, or even the store itself. We don't spend anything close to what those guys spend at the store.

can the emperor shoot lasers out of his eyes?

>>53586227
>Ignoring the plethora of mellee buffs available in the tyranid force that DONT have all those restrictions.
....such as?

>>53586105
Deathwatch are hurting a little bit right now. They were already kind of weak in 7th and they got slight but noticeable nerfs which put them in an even bad position. A deathwatch force right now would be best suited as a specialized allied force to your main army.

Space marines will always be good, and flamers got a buff so fluffy salamanders are now better than ever.

>>53585943
The fact that you can have multiple detachments of the same army coupled with the fact that only one or two armies can do it effectively is pretty damning for the tournament scene if command points play as big a part in games as I'm lead to believe.

>>53586229

Well they're going to leave either way then because even if the rule works Taudar are fucking awful.

>>53586130
>>53585786
Thank you my dudes

>>53586189
>play admech
>want to get a dreadnought because toaster dragoons are pimp as fuck
>not interested in Super Special Space Marines +
idk senpai this is pretty much perfect for me; i was actually wondering how I would be able to get away with allying in only a single unit

>>53586206
>They required the vehicle damage table (another table), they required that what happens to models being different (why doesn't the giant monster leave a corpse etc), they could mess up where units could be placed for objectives.

The damage table wasn't actually required to generate wrecks. They came from it but "this thind ded, leave on table as terrain" still works without it. It also did nothing to complicate objectives most of the time, and in a well written ruleset (which 7th sure as fuck wasn't) it would NEVER complicate them. "Vehicles can not move over objective markers".

Look I just solved it.

>I'll admit, it wasn't hugely complex, but it did add complexity. Now when a unit is killed, it's taken off the table. Units on the table are alive. Period.

Yes, it added a minimum of complexity that increased my enjoyment of the game. You could remove any rule and reduce complexity. Why have morale at all? Thats complex. Making a game like this is a balance of complexity intuitiveness. I just think they got this one wrong.

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>>53579447
So, after how badly Admech got the nerf bat and how much flavor they lost, I think I want to start a Dark Eldar army. Or, a Ynnari army. Specifically, I like Wych's, Kabalites, and Wraith Units. My top favorites are:

1. Scourges
2. Kabalites
3. Wraith-Guard
4. Wychs
5. Raiders

Could I make a viable list out of these units now?

>>53586244

Getting 6-9 command points at 2k isn't hard at all. I can do it with my Eldar/Dark Eldar easily. Can also do it with my Harlequin/Variant Eldar, no problems with Chaos either.

I don't see what you're driving at - most armies will average 6-9 points, a few will push it higher, a few will chance lower but that should be the middle that's easily achievable by most armies.

>>53586235

Nah he prefers more flames out of his ass.

>>53586189
Currently there are only a few situations you would, but there may be more in the future. For example, lets say you have two detachments of AdMech and just enough points for one Vindicaire left over. You want to include the assassin, but you don't want to add him as a elites choice in one of your AdMech detachments since that would make the detachment "Imperium" and they would thus lose Canticles of the Omnissiah. And you don't have the points free to buy an HQ to run the Vindicaire with a Inquistor, Primaris Psyker or whatever in a Vanguard detachment. So you can just spend a CP to take the assassin on his own.

Why can't dreads take drop pods? This is bullshit. I spent days painting up a drop pod with the personal heraldry of my Librarian Dreadnought, now it's been taken away for no reason.

>>53586286
They're too big to fit. They were never supposed to take them, GW was just being stupid

>>53586272
I'm not familiar with the Cult units, but while Sicarians did get nerfed and Skitarii footsloggers lost flavor, Onagers are fucking fantastic now, Master of Machines is better, and Omnispexes now ignore cover entirely.

>>53586300
They use them in fluff.

>>53586272

AdMech didn't get nerfed that badly - Sicarians did but many of their other units are solid. Even more so Electropriests are fucking amazing.

>>53586244
>The fact that you can have multiple detachments of the same army coupled with the fact that only one or two armies can do it effectively
I'm going to say this is likely untrue.
Most armies are able to pull off a battalion detachment, and maybe one more.
Trying to squeeze in battalion+2 requires a lot of units, or at least a lot of HQ and/or troops.
If you aren't running battalion, then getting in a patrol, or another basic battalion is going to be easy for any army. getting 2 isn't that unrealistic.

So you're going to be looking at 3-4 CP for the vast majority of lists, with 2s and 5s being the minority. That's pretty small varience, and amounts to a couple rerolls, redrawing a tactical objective, etc.
Nice, but not huge.

>>53584789
what list builder has 8th already?

>>53586260
Except you don't need to use a different Detachment because you share Keyword Imperium with Dreadnoughts, unless Canticles restricts it.

>>53586209
Then who was it included for?
It's definitely not for open play because that's a meme mode and people are probably going to go all-in on mixing factions, not pick one unit.
It's not obviously useful in matched play either, because you can't use it to e.g. run a unit of Guard as gue'vesa in a Tau army since you still can't mix keywords in the same army.

The only use I see is cheesing special rules like Cult Ambush and Brood Brothers. Maybe an edge case like running one single Tyranid unit in a Genestealer army without disrupting CA? But the CP loss is bad enough that I'd think it'd be better in 99% of cases to just take the one or two extra units needed to make a patrol detachment.

>>53586260
I don't know much about AdMech, why can't you just stick it in your main detachment? It shares the Imperium faction keyword with all the other cyborgs.

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>>53585952
>>53586054
Took me a second but I figured one out. Rate my WAAC fag list.

Five identical Vanguard detachments. The Infantry Squads, Taurox, and Melta get deployed while the Prime, plasma, and Volley guns deepstrike. Melta squads go in transports and drive balls out at the bigest targets wile the infantry shoot the best they can. Deep striking units do their thing with the Primes giving orders to reroll 1s to hit to the plasma squads so they don't fry themselves.

Do we think command squads will be changed to one per character?

2000pts 8CP
Tempestor Prime (Plasma pistol)[45]
Tempestus Command squad (4xVolley Gun)[72]
Tempestus Command squad (4xPlasma)[64]
Tempestus Command squad (4xMelta)[84]
Taurox Prime (Gatling Cannon, Volley Gun)[87]
Infantry Squad (HBolter)[48]

Tempestor Prime (Plasma pistol)[45]
Tempestus Command squad (4xVolley Gun)[72]
Tempestus Command squad (4xPlasma)[64]
Tempestus Command squad (4xMelta)[84]
Taurox Prime (Gatling Cannon, Volley Gun)[87]
Infantry Squad (Hbolter)[48]

Tempestor Prime (Plasma pistol)[45]
Tempestus Command squad (4xVolley Gun)[72]
Tempestus Command squad (4xPlasma)[64]
Tempestus Command squad (4xMelta)[84]
Taurox Prime (Gatling Cannon, Volley Gun)[87]
Infantry Squad (Hbolter)[48]

Tempestor Prime (Plasma pistol)[45]
Tempestus Command squad (4xVolley Gun)[72]
Tempestus Command squad (4xPlasma)[64]
Tempestus Command squad (4xMelta)[84]
Taurox Prime (Gatling Cannon, Volley Gun)[87]
Infantry Squad (Hbolter)[48]

Tempestor Prime (Plasma pistol)[45]
Tempestus Command squad (4xVolley Gun)[72]
Tempestus Command squad (4xPlasma)[64]
Tempestus Command squad (4xMelta)[84]
Taurox Prime (Gatling Cannon, Volley Gun)[87]
Infantry Squad (Hbolter)[48]

>>53586275
Can't do that shit well with tyranids, the cheapest HQ is 100 points bare. Unless ofcourse if you intend to fill the board with gaunts

>>53586318
They use the huge Lucius Pattern ones from Forge World that have 3 big doors, not the 5-petal'd ones the infantry use.

>>53586331
Canticles only works if everyone in the detachment has it.

>>53586336
This will utterly melt away to equivalent points in genestealers or ork boys.

>>53586286
A major edition change like this is like a new codex for everyone and old options fall by the wayside all the time when books change. Lots of people probably painted stuff up for particular formations for example.

Marinelets can't even hitch a ride in the chad marines' repulsive tanks.

>>53586266
then house rule it.
You just admitted you were wrong. It added some complexity. You said none at all.

They also got rid of access points, etc.
Actually, and this is the important bit, they got rid of everything that treats 'vehicle' as different that isn't included inside another unit or weapons special rule.
Things die, they come off the table.

>>53586236
>....such as?

Monstrous scything talons on the fexes themselves already let them reroll 1's which can not then be rerolled again. So... Thats literally one third of Old One Eyes utility gone built into the unit itself.

Lets see, what else...

Huh, nothing specifically for re-rolls. Also, I didn't realize there were like six old one eye equivalents buffing a single unit type in the tyranids. That's a neat mechanic. Alpha units leading their strain.

I guess it's only really annoying for OOE because he's specifically a character, but were you gonna use more than one? He's not even a "character" because of his wound count. A novel one third increase in hit rates on a unit that is already overkill for most targets and which can do that with built in wargear hardly seems mandatory.

>>53586330
>unless Canticles restricts it.
It does

>>53586353

So you can't take 4 HQs and 6 Troops readily in 2k?

Also - and I ask this honestly not as a jackass - you do know that if your army is battle forged you get 3 CP to start with right?

>>53586402
>Monstrous scything talons on the fexes themselves already let them reroll 1's which can not then be rerolled again. So... Thats literally one third of Old One Eyes utility gone built into the unit itself.
He doesn't grant re-rolls you fucking tard. You haven't even read the rules clearly.

Can someone clarify a rules question before I fuck up my models?

For Deathwatch

Under the "Deathwatch Equipment" list, is it saying that a deathwatch veteran can take up to two items from the list, one of which comes from the second part of the list, or is it saying you can take two items from the first part OR one item from the second part?

>>53586326

You can't have 2 CP if you have a battle forged army. It is impossible to do.

>>53586425
Spending them on Auxiliary Detachments. Other pre-game uses will also come out later on with the Codexes.

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>>53586360
>tfw Hellbrutes can still use Dreadclaws

So how are valks in 8th?
They any good or worth taking?

>>53586327
https://webapplications-webroster.rhcloud.com/rc/web/#!/rosterCreator

Everything but Xenos 1 & 2. Enjoy.

>>53586266
>You just admitted you were wrong. It added some complexity. You said none at all.

Because I wasn't being a belligerent aspie? Humans communicate all the time like this, you're not a fucking strict code compiler, fuck off. Wrecks barely added any complexity at all to the game. Vastly less than their benefit to the mechanics and suspension of disbelief warranted.

If this kind of minimal complexity scares you go play uno or something.

>They also got rid of access points, etc.
>Actually, and this is the important bit, they got rid of everything that treats 'vehicle' as different that isn't included inside another unit or weapons special rule.
>Things die, they come off the table.

Yes, I noticed. Other than when you glue your dark angels cobra commander base to the table. I dont mind firing arcs and shit going away, but the wrecks were at that point the ONLY thing that would have been left making a vehicle a vehicle. I liked that differentiation and I'm sad that it's gone.

You can't tell me I'm "wrong" for feeling that way. That's not how that works. It just makes you a tool.

How about the fact that there is nothing restricting Space Marine characters with the option to take melee weapons from the list from taking Dreadnought CC weapons?

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I can't find Objective Secured in the new rules. Is is gone? What's the point of taking more than minimum troops?

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So can someone let me know what the deal is with codexes? We got the rules, we got the indexes for the armies, we will soon get Imperial Army books for forgeworld models, and then..... individual army codexes on top of that?
If not, then where will they cover things like Ork <klans>? Are the rules / indexes the books you have to pay for, then codexes will be free on the internet to be continually updated like supplements?
I just got into 40k a few months ago when they announced triumvirate of the imperium, and ive been painting my orkz ever since, looking forward to getting into the local scene when 8e drops.

>>53586365
Ah, okay.
Are you sure there's no way you could squeeze him into a patrol, though?

>>53586477
You secure objectives by having more models next to an objective than an opponent.

>>53586275
so you're running 6-9+ troops, and 4-6+ hqs.
and you don't think you had to make any sacrifices in your list building to do this?
for a total advantage of, what, 6 rerolls?

>>53586353
I'm pretty sure you could make a brigade using the same amount of sacrifices he did to pull 9command points.
Even if you can't you can get 4pts I'm sure. You gave up an objective redraw and/or a couple rerolls.

>>53586412
You can but it'll be absolutely horrible. I've stated previously that while nids may be competitive it's based on the fact that they're linear. The good units that they have are unable to be massed.

So Ynnead's Will states that a unit with the ability can use any Aeldari Transport, but the only units that have it are Yvraine and The Visarch. Does anyone know if there is any way to get infantry from one faction into a transport of another. I mean, I get that they're different factions, but not for the purposes of an Ynarri army. It just doesn't seem right to me. Feels like we're missing out on some more efficient unit usage. Also: why the fuck can't Ynnari take Mandrakes? I don't get it.

>>53584217
Any saved links?

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>>53586472

This is wrong - see attached pic. Melee weapons doesn't list dreadnaught CCW.

>>53586472
>another one of these fucking retards who mixes up the points index with the wargear list

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>>53586098
>You can take everything together, you just won't benefit from special rules that target specific keywords.
Do units lose the keywords that the formation isn't based around? I mean I get it if you're saying that Blood Angels wouldn't benefit from Seth's bonus (that affects units with the Flesh Tearers keyword), but I don't get it if you're saying that Blood Angel units wouldn't be buffed by say a Sanguinary Guard Ancient.

> This is to stop too much buff stacking.
No complaints here.

>>53586142
>there is nothing that stops you from calling Dante 'Lord Humongous' - using all the rules for him and keeping the BA keyword and using him in your successor chapter 'The Wasteland Raiders' who also keep the BA keyword.
There is if you use multiple Characters from different Successors. I've ran not!Seth and not!Lemartes on multiple occasions in 7e for example and doing that wouldn't be possible in 8e without basing my detachment around a keyword that isn't just plain "Imperium"

>Also to be clear this all says it is a SUGGESTION - it is in no way a rule.
It most certainly is a rule and not a suggestion. They straight up say "If you wish to play a successor then you WILL fucking swap out the keywords" There is no option giving for ignoring this rule given in that. If you run a Successor without swapping the keywords then you're straight up cheating as far as the rules are concerned. Plus, not changing the keyword bars you from using Seth, while swapping the keyword to Flesh Tearers bars you from using everyone BUT Seth.

I get why they're ruling things this way, but honestly you're just going to see a lot of "cheating" Successor Chapter players and Flesh Tearers armies without Seth. It's not a good fix.

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>>53586242
>flamers got a buff
How exactly do they work now? They got rid of templates in 8e didn't they? So what does that actually mean?

What makes Deathwatch not so good? I mostly liked them because of the idea of low model count and I wanted to have Captain Titus from the game Space Marine in my Deathwatch force.
What would a Deathwatch force as an allied detachment be good for to complement fluffy Salamanders?

I think one of the main draws of Space Marines for me is their drop pods and deep striking, they just look really fun. I only wish there was rules to land drop pods on shit to do damage sinces its a giant hunk of metal coming in from orbit.

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>>53585435
Close, but pic related is the average Chaos player
Fedoras are more likely to be Tau or Nids, imo

>>53586472
Well, common sense, for one. It's an oversight by GW, I'm sure they'll errata it.

We talked about this in the other thread when we discovered, RAW, haemonculi can grant +1T to the vehicle they're riding. What do they do? Give the armor plating space!PCP?

...

Actually, that sounds pretty cool.

>>53586502
Shit I didn't even see that page. That's a pretty piss poor amount of options.

>>53586517
>fedoras on nids
lolno

Nid players just wear dresses

>>53586423
0-2 from the first list AND 0-1 from the second list. You could have a combi-plasma and a power sword for example. You could even have a combi-plasma, a power sword, and a bolt pistol.

Pre order is up in aus

>>53586425
I derped, and forgot that you start with 3.
Just use my old post and add "in addition to the 3 you start with".
The point is the same, the spread is going to be 1-3 pts in the vast majority of lists. A couple of rerolls per game basically.

>>53586478
Indexes are a stop-gap to make up for the fact that all past rules are literally useless. Without them, it would be impossible to play because there are no codexes to give you the new rules for each unit, and the old rules may as well be GURPS for all the good they'll do you.

Codexes are coming later and will likely have more detailed rules like artifacts and a heftier price tag.

>>53586510
>Do units lose the keywords that the formation isn't based around?
Nope, abilities just target specific keywords, or are restricted to only function in detachments made up entirely of specific keywords.

>>53586494

No I only need to run 2 HQs and 3 Troops for 6 command points. Did you read the rules?

>>53586514
A standard flamer just shoots d6 times at 8" and automatically hits.

>>53586525
>We talked about this in the other thread when we discovered, RAW, haemonculi can grant +1T to the vehicle they're riding.
Actually they can't, because they have no aura abilities while embarked.

Even weirder, after they GET OUT of the Raider, then it suddenly has +1 Toughness while they're standing next to it.

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>Was initially bummed out that wulfens got severely nerfed in their damage output
>Suddenly realize that they can now take FnP saves on EVERYTHING

They somehow made stormshield wulfens even more durable, sweet jesus

>>53586494

Look you fucking idiot. You start with 3 CP just for playing a battle forged army. So to get 6 CP all you need to do is take 2 - fucking 2 - HQs and 3 Troops. You're telling me a Nid player can't do that? Do you have extra fucking chromosomes?

>>53586562
2 HQ and 3 troop yield you 3 command points unless you have an HQ that gives you command points.

>>53586497
>Also: why the fuck can't Ynnari take Mandrakes? I don't get it.

It's a developing story. Decapitator got his last skull for a ritual to summon a daemonhost. It's implied these daemons are why the mandrakes have the stuff they do, and why they're apart from even the wych cults, kabals, and covens; they're implied Chaos worshippers. The Ynnari, as you know, are not okay with that.

>>53586591

NO YOU FUCKING IDIOT YOU GET 3 COMMAND POINTS FOR PLAYING A BATTLE FORGED ARMY. YOU GET 3 PLUS WHATEVER ELSE YOU GET FOR YOUR FORMATIONS - READ THE FUCKING BOOK.

>>53586591
Plus the three you start with base.

>>53586418
Oh yeah, you're right. It's just a +1. That's actually worse than a re-roll, though at that point it stacks ok with the scything talons.

So you go from hitting two thirds of the time to hitting five sixths of the time. All for the low, low, cost of what is just shy of two more carnifexes.

So basically you get a tiny bit more tough, make some other carnys hit a tiny bit better, get a neat mechanic for doubling your attacks, and thats at the cost of two entire carnifexes.

He seems good, but he hardly seems mandatory and he seems like he'll get blown off the table first since he's definitely not as tough as two carnifexes.

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>>53586514
Flamers and other templates are random shortranged autohits, usually d6 autohits at 8".

Blasts are a random number of shots, but still have to roll to hit for each one.

>>53586540
Are you sure you can take both? In the Deathwatch kill team entry it says

>Any deathwatch <model> may replace their boltgun with two items from the Deathwatch Equipment list.

>>53586601
Shouldn't the rest of the Dark Eldar be pretty upset about it, too?

why the fuck did they go and make sternguard so fucking boring

>>53586604
>>53586603
I assumed battleforged was technically battalion

>>53586583
Keep in mind that wounds =/= mortal wounds. So smite and such will still just happen.

>>53586623

You. are. wrong. Read the fucking rules before you comment on how impossible it will be for any army to get 6 CP.

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>>53586571
So you roll a d6 and allocate whatever you rolled hits to that many models in an 8" range? Automatic hits as in automatic wounds or do you still need to roll for that? I'm really not familiar with the rules of 40k yet.
Can you stack hits on things you really want to die?

>>53586623
How could you possibly come to that conclusion?

>>53586468
>https://webapplications-webroster.rhcloud.com/rc/web/#!/rosterCreator
I hate to nitpick but I went in to build a space wolves list...
Your missing all the space wolves stuff, and all the Space Marine HQ's except the Captain in Grav Armor. You don't even have the Lieutenant or the Ancient.

>>53586620
Like I said, developing story. Decapitator and the mandrakes being outcasts has been a thing since 3e, but this is the first time we actually got details.

>>53586649
You choose a unit and roll a d6. That unit takes that many HITS with the weapon profile provided. You still have to roll to wound. It's a replacement for the template that previously also automatically hit.

The enemy allocates the wounds they take, so you can't focus a single model in a unit. You can, however, hit a single model and devastate it.

The meme right now is that flamers are super good at killing flyers because they automatically hit them a ton of times.

>>53586605
>just shy of two more carnifexes
He's 140, a regular Carnifex is 94 before adding adrenal glands, 99 with them.

He makes them go from hitting on 4's which is literally so fucking worthless you might as well not bring them to all hitting on 3's, plus he himself is a Carnifex with 2 more Wounds, generates more attacks everytime he hits, regenerates a lost Wound every turn, deals more Mortal Wounds when charging, has a higher attack stat when swinging with his Crushing Claws, and has +1 Strength until he gets dropped to a much lower Wound count.

For 40 points more.

There is literally never, ever any reason ever you wouldn't take him if you're going to take any Carnifexes. Want one Carnifex in your list? Guess what, it's OOE. Want more than one? The first one is going to be OOE. Saving 40 points is never worth everything you lose by taking regular fexes without him.

Like I said, Herohammer edition.

>>53586659
Noted.

>>53586659
>>53586468
It only has nids, csm and bangles

>>53586649
You still have to roll to wound, but autohits makes them somewhat more reliable then other weapons.

No you can't stack hits on the same model - they're allocated to specific models by your opponent when your opponent rolls his saves.

>>53586471
I'm not telling you your feelings are wrong.
I said your statement about adding no complexity 'at all' was wrong, because it was. Saying "none at all" when you mean "only a little" does not make you a better communicator. It makes you sloppy in your thinking and you miss things. Like the point of the new rule.

Because the more important thing I was pointing out that you missed the design decision that was part of GWs idea for 8th ed.
They don't want there to be a difference between vehicles and nonvehicles outside of how individual unit/weapon rules list keywords.
They are exactly like the difference between monsters and non monsters. Psyker, artillery, support weapon, titanic.
It's just keywords now. Only the 'fly', 'character' and 'transport' keywords have any rules meaning outside of what another game object might list. and frankly outside of character they could have cut the others with a bit of work.
You don't have to like it, but you should understand that everything was based towards that goal.

>>53586628
The rules says "each time a model in this unit loses a wound", so it doesn't differentiate between what originally caused the wound. I don't see how mortal wound is any different, since it causes models to lose wounds just the same.

>>53586497
>Does anyone know if there is any way to get infantry from one faction into a transport of another.
Nope. Transports are very clear about who can go in what.

And Mandrakes basically daemons. They're too far gone to suddenly get religion.

>>53586628
>wounds =/= mortal wounds
The way I read it you can take FnP-equivalent rolls against mortal wounds, but I could be wrong. The guys playing 8th on the Warhammer twitch channel earlier today were playing that way, but we all know how well they play by the rules poor Magnus

>>53586691
>There is literally never, ever any reason ever you wouldn't take him if you're going to take any Carnifexes

Maybe your HQ is full

>>53586628

Incorrect - FnP style abilities work against Mortal Wounds.

>>53586691
>He's 140, a regular Carnifex is 94 before adding adrenal glands, 99 with them.

He's 140 before you add all his weapons.
140
14
14
7
=
175.

regular carny is:
67
20
7
=
96

96+96=192

So he's 17 points shy of two fexes.

>>53586645
"wah you don't know the rules of an edition that hasn't officially released yet"
>>53586652
I thought that because it's the only detachment with mandatory troops, not because the name.

>>53586725
you can't unless they state it works for mortal wounds too.
See the avatar of khaine, farseer, and DE power from pain.
One says "wound or mortal wound", one says "Mortal wound" and the last says "wound".

interesting v8 battle report 2k armies going at it. new mission.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGLqw2kRXeM

i find the battle and army comp interesting. i thought the melee unit was doomed but not quite as bad as before. Were they lucky?

>>53586743

You don't add his equipment. Named characters have their equipment added in their points cost. Re-read the points section.

>>53586745

If you want to parade around as knowing what you're talking about then you need to know what the fuck you are talking about. I don't care that you are wrong - I care about the fact that you had the fucking audacity to act like you knew what you were talking about. If you didn't know, you should have asked instead of stating your willfully uninformed opinion as fact.

>>53586745
>because it's the only detachment with mandatory troops
Patrol and Brigade also require Troops.
All battleforged armies get 3 CP to start with, and every Battalion detachment gives +3.

>>53586743
Read the points, he's 140 complete with his crushing claws which are otherwise 24 points wtf

Anyone know where to get small slate chips/rocks for basing that isn't in Bongistan? I'm not paying triple the actual cost of the product in pure shipping and I can't find anything similar online here.

>>53586534
Regardless of whether or not they're actually women
>O-oviposter sama~

>>53586742
>>53586725
>>53586719
Abilities that disregard mortal wounds get explicitly called out. See Farseer (mortal wounds only) and the the Avatar (wounds and mortal wounds) for examples that make this clear.

>>53586587
>>53586562
as I said >>53586549
but that doesn't change my point. The 3 cp base doesn't change the difference in cp between what lists and factions can expect.
so instead of 3-4 with some 2s and 5s, it's 6-7 with some 5s and 8s, and the rare 9.
And the 9s make sacrifices to get there, which are probably pretty similar in value to a couple of rerolls.

I don't see how it's a probable for match point balance.

>>53584425

Russes are terrible now. Heavy weapons squads are dirt cheap so I'd take a least a few of those.

>>53586768
Listen autist, I don't know how the fact of me misunderstanding the fact that you start with 3 more command points makes my argument any less valid being that it's many, many times easier to stack them with IG than it is for most armies

>>53586784
Aquarium stores?

>>53586753
good catch, I'm sure it'll end up being covered in an FAQ.

>>53586787

The language is not a save though.It does not say you take a save - it says when you take a wound roll a dice and on a 5+ you don't take the wound. It isn't a save.

>>53586710
>I'm not telling you your feelings are wrong.

And I am telling you to blow me.

>I said your statement about adding no complexity 'at all' was wrong, because it was. Saying "none at all" when you mean "only a little" does not make you a better communicator. It makes you sloppy in your thinking and you miss things. Like the point of the new rule.

Do you have any friends in real life? Like, at all? Are you this anal about non combative and non legal language everywhere?

Do you seriously think I don't understand the concept of 'streamlined rules'? I am seemingly capable of using a computer which implies I'm not a fucking deskchair or some sort of household pet only capable of understanding tonal sounds. Do you understand the concept of 'being an obnoxious prick'?

>Because the more important thing I was pointing out that you missed the design decision that was part of GWs idea for 8th ed.

You pointed out something I had already fucking noticed, I was decrying that decision. I explicitly stated that I think GW made a mistake.

>It's just keywords now. Only the 'fly', 'character' and 'transport' keywords have any rules meaning outside of what another game object might list.

Yes. Cool. I get it. Neat. Fun. Great. Would you like to explain to me jpeg encoding next? Or describe the base six numerical system? Dry, pointless explanations of things I already know gets me off.

>You don't have to like it, but you should understand that everything was based towards that goal.

And you should probably work on your communication skills if you want to stop being alone.

>>53586775
You're absolutely right, thanks for correcting me

>>53586478
How'd you get the checkers so right?

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>>53586301
My problem is that the loss of Doctrines has really hampered the Enjoyment of my army. I loved playing a hyper reactive force that could swap play styles almost mid-games, and pull of some incredibly cool tricks through Rad/Static debuffs. Skitarii played like a rolling assault, always moving, always on the attack. The nerf's really killed that sort of play style.
>>53586320
Siciarians were my favorite unit- But thats besides the point. Radium lost its anti-horde abilities, Rangers lost their ap, they all lost relentless and their FNP, in exchange for a Invuln save, for no reason. Dragoons are okay, ironstriders are worse, and Onagers are still good all around, but I really dont want to buy/paint any more.

Kastellans lost a lot of their melee oomph, and are better off as gun platforms, destroyers are still vastly preferable to breachers, Dominus are not the godly HQ they once were, and despite Electropriests actually being good, I refuse to buy those goofy bastards. Seriously, this is another one of those scenarios where a certain under performing unit is buffed. But that doesn't change the fact thar they're ugly models that dont fit the asthetics of the faction.


No, I'm still kinda pissed off with what they did to the Admech overall; not enough to sell what I have, but enough to keep me from buying anything new until they actually get a proper update, rather than this BS stop gap that has ruined my rolling advance tactics.

And this is coming from a guy who really loves Admech. Plus, Dark Eldar are just a asthetically pleasing faction.

>>53586690
>The meme right now is that flamers are super good at killing flyers because they automatically hit them a ton of times.
Holy shit that can't be how it actually works.

But Salamanders are still good in 8e then? What are Deathwatch good for?

Also what's the deal with grav weapons? My friends threaten to put me to the sword if I give my marines grav weapons

>>53586822
>thanks for correcting me
Where is my /40kg/ of two days ago and what have you done with it?!

Have Bloodcrushers stopped being shit? They look cool and I want to run them

>>53586768
>You don't add his equipment. Named characters have their equipment added in their points cost. Re-read the points section.

You know, usually when I'm wrong I'm mad and get defensive. But I can't be mad about this.

This is going to be character hammer because you DONT have to calculate points for characters and calculating points is torture now.

Also, yeah if he's only like 50% more than a fex he's looking good. I still wouldn't call him mandatory, though. His effect on other fexes is a lot more minor than it may at first appear and he's still only going to absorb 3 lascanon hits before dying which wont be hard to put out.

>>53586738
>implying it's not stupidly easy to get two battalions and have up to 6 HQ choices

>>53586743
Jesus christ are you retarded? Special Characters don't pay anything for wargear it says it right on the sheet POINTS PER MODEL (Includes Wargear) over the four of them.

Also apparently you can't add because a regular fex is 94, and then you add 5 for adrenal because that's pretty much required for a melee bug.

You really going to tell me if you were going to throw a fex in your list and then realized that for 41 points more you could give it +1 WS, +1 Strength, +1 Attack, +2 Wounds, Regeneration, D3 Mortal Wounds instead of 1 on LBR, and the ability to chain hits into more attacks, and buffs any other Carnifexes you might decide to run as well, you'd go "oh no thanks I'll stick with my shitty Carnifex who takes three rounds of combat to kill a Rhino so I can have 40 more points to spend on gaunts"???

Fucking baddies.

>>53586810
I was thinking that, but the rocks probably won't be too jagged. I'm looking more for rocks used here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzlvpv-L48M

>>53586792
russ's now shoot at full BS until they take 6 wounds. At T8, 3+ save. Movement doesn't effect their BS with their main gun either.
They still shoot alright until they take 9 wounds, and take 12 to fully remove.

The HWS lets you take more dakka per points, but that dakka gets whittled down a lot easier and faster.
One battle cannon at a russ, it's still firing at full power. One battle cannon at a HWT, it's down heavy weapons.

>>53586837
Sallamanders look good. Melta is much less mandatory than before, but flamers seem pretty incredible and he makes them reroll wounds.

Grav weapons were super powerful before but are expensive and far weaker now. They are no longer overpowered, but are more of an anti terminator option.

>>53586855
Not him, but his massive buff is felt when running a mob of fexes with crushing claws, since that takes him from slightly better to almost mandatory, as he makes crushing claws 50% more likely to hit. also, he's a character with ten wounds or less, so he cant be lascannon-sniped easily

>>53586829
Doctrina Imperatives got canned because Skitarii get Canticles now and trying to track both of those at the same time is unwieldy as fuck.

>>53586818
Farseer/Avatar are worded the same way, just with loses = suffers, not lost = ignored.

>>53586855
>calculating points is torture now.
I've never played this game in my life and I had no trouble figuring out what a flying hive tyrant costs.
If you nerds who've been playing for years can't figure it out faster than me then you must be retarded.

>>53586840
It's the second time in a row I've flubbed understanding of rules set out right in front of me, it's either lack of attention to detail or idiocy at this point. Pretty much have to take a bow at this point.

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>>53586859
>Jesus christ are you retarded? Special Characters don't pay anything for wargear it says it right on the sheet POINTS PER MODEL (Includes Wargear) over the four of them.

You spent too long swearing at the anon, a bunch of people already responded but without sounding like theyre assmad.

>>53586903
Looking at the tail end of that sentence I think I'm just tired.

>>53586272
>>53586829
Dark Eldar looks are the reason I stopped playing CWE. Dark Eldar look fantastic and this edition seems to be promising. Raiders and Venoms are your friend

>>53586791
>and the rare 9
Guard get to 12+ effortlessly. That's only like 500 points.

>>53586903
Shit, I thought you were just being passive-aggressive.

>>53586891
You need less than 10, not 10 or less. He'll usually be targeted quickly, but all you need to do is throw catalyst on him and keep him in cover for a turn while you advance up the table. Either that or stick him in a Tyrannocyte and drop him next to your other Carnifexes on turn 2

>>53586929
my point exactly >>53586807

>>53586821
you're on a board talking about table top games, specifically a board talking about the changes to rules in a game.
You asked a question about the companies reasoning for a changing a particular rule in that game. Or at least made a statement which makes a judgement about that reasoning.
And you're surprised that I bring up the reasoning in game design about that particular rules change?

also, love the use of the term 'non-combative'. really fits the tone of the rest of your posts.

>>53586272
Yes, that should work well. Ynnari generally want to be infantry heavy with some heavy hitters around to take advantage of soulbursts. Plus Wraith-stuff is super fluffy for Ynnari.

>>53586949
according to the warhammer community post about characters, it was ten or less. Does the leaked rulebook disagree with this?

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>>53586892
Yeah, but canticles suck fucking balls, and aren't even canticles; they're like a shitty mix of both. You can pick between 6 different little bonuses a turn, like doctrina, but it lacks the stacking bonus of canticles had.

Its just a bland alternative to both.

>>53586927
Exactly, Dark Eldar look sick as fuck; as does the Wraithguard. Unfortunately, Wraith units and the new plastic kits are the only good looking Craftworld units. But seriously, Dark Eldar look wicked.

Unlimited detachments was a mistake

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>>53586927
it's why I run il-kaithe. And kitbashed most of my aspect warriors out of DEldar bits.

That and the scourge box is super value for bits.

>>53586981
Yes. It says if they have "10 or more" the character rules for targeting don't apply. That's why they stuck Guilliman at 9.

>>53586891
>Not him, but his massive buff is felt when running a mob of fexes with crushing claws, since that takes him from slightly better to almost mandatory, as he makes crushing claws 50% more likely to hit.

It's just a 16% increase in your chance to hit, not 50%. It's just a +1. You'll hit with a third more attacks, but the actual chance per die is just one more number. Also, you have to be in combat and while in range of OOE.

It's really unlikely you're going to have more than like 2 fexes near him by the time you're in combat. Both because they're gonna get shot and because concentrating like 600 points of anti tank mellee in a single 14 inch radius is a huge waste of points. You're going to hit a screening squad, annihilate it without the need for the buff, then disperse as the fexes all chase different things.

>he's a character with ten wounds or less, so he cant be lascannon-sniped easily

You have that backwards. You can shoot a character with 10 or MORE. I am looking at the rulebook right now to check. They gave OOE 10 wounds so that you could blast him.

>>53587004
There are guidelines in the book for limits in matched play. 2 detachments up to 1k points, 3 up to 2k, 4 up to 3k, and so on. Most armies won't need more than 2, and almost none will need more than 3.

>>53586829
Whaddya mean Sicarians got 'nerfed'? Ruststalkers are still weak, but Infiltrators are stupid powerful.

What makes you think they're weak? Admech on a whole are pretty powerful

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>>53586336
>>53586382
Indeed that kind of meta could be a good check. Who needs so many Meltaguns and Taurox anyway? Lets try that again. Now with more mortars and volley guns.

Tempestor Prime (Hotshot pistol)[41]
Tempestus Command squad (4xVolley Gun)[72]
Tempestus Command squad (4xPlasma)[64]
Tempestus Command squad (4xMelta)[84]
Taurox Prime (Gatling Cannon, 2xVolley Gun)[96]
Heavy Weapon Squad (3xMortar)[27]
Heavy Weapon Squad (3xMortar)[27]

Tempestor Prime (Hotshot pistol)[41]
Tempestus Command squad (4xVolley Gun)[72]
Tempestus Command squad (4xPlasma)[64]
Tempestus Command squad (4xMelta)[84]
Taurox Prime (Gatling Cannon, 2xVolley Gun)[96]
Heavy Weapon Squad (3xMortar)[27]
Heavy Weapon Squad (3xMortar)[27]

Tempestor Prime (Hotshot pistol)[41]
Tempestus Command squad (4xVolley Gun)[72]
Tempestus Command squad (4xPlasma)[64]
Tempestus Command squad (4xMelta)[84]
Taurox Prime (Gatling Cannon, 2xVolley Gun)[96]
Heavy Weapon Squad (3xMortar)[27]
Heavy Weapon Squad (3xMortar)[27]

Tempestor Prime (Hotshot pistol)[41]
Tempestus Command squad (4xVolley Gun)[72]
Tempestus Command squad (4xVolley Gun)[72]
Tempestus Command squad (4xPlasma)[64]
Heavy Weapon Squad (3xMortar)[27]
Heavy Weapon Squad (3xMortar)[27]

Tempestor Prime (Hotshot pistol)[41]
Tempestus Command squad (4xVolley Gun)[72]
Tempestus Command squad (4xVolley Gun)[72]
Tempestus Command squad (4xPlasma)[64]
Tempestus Command squad (4xPlasma)[64]
Taurox Prime (Gatling Cannon, 2xVolley Gun)[96]
Heavy Weapon Squad (3xMortar)[27]
Heavy Weapon Squad (3xMortar)[27]


Still doesn't feel quite right but getting there.

>>53586896
>play orks
>want to build a squad
>bodies on a different page than equipment on a different page than the wargear list on a different page than the unit entry saying what wargear lists to look at

Ok, so I need a pen and paper and four separate pages to outfit a boss nob. Its not complex, it's onerous. Please loose the stockholme syndrome, the interface here is deplorable. I've had to reference fewer tables making characters in DND.

Alright /tg/, I want rough riders in my GSC. What kind of conversion should I try to do? Those Krieg lizard horses? Saddled hormagaunts? Motorcycles? Zoats?

>>53587010
Shit, best of both worlds. Great kitbashing idea

>>53587013
>You're going to hit a screening squad, annihilate it without the need for the buff, then disperse as the fexes all chase different things.
You really are stupid. Fexes are terrible in this edition, without the buff they'll kill roughly 2 and a half 4-point guardsmen.

How the hell do flyers work

File: rr.jpg (66KB, 736x764px) Image search: [Google]

66KB, 736x764px

>>53587027
Just fuck my shit up senpai. For real.

>>53587042

>>53586966
>also, love the use of the term 'non-combative'. really fits the tone of the rest of your posts.

It becomes combative when you condescendingly act like a conversation about a game is a legal document.

>>53587042
Fucked up hybrid cultists on motorcycles would be pretty cool.

>>53586953
Ah. Yeah. The issue for most other factions is that although they may have some cheap stuff, they probably don't have cheap stuff in every slot. Orks can do it fairly easy I think. With Weirdboys/Big Meks, Meks/Painboys/Tankbustas/Kommandos, Boyz/Grotz, Stormboyz/Wartrakks/Warbuggies/Skorchas, and Big Guns.

>>53587055
Yeah, fexes are pretty feces right now. Cheap as hell and durable though. And the thresher scythe is basically mandatory.