T'au 8th International

Well I predict 8e will be infantry edition. Suits and vehicles are stupidly overpriced now, whereas troops just got better and or cheaper.

But stealth suits stayed relatively the same price but got another wound and better toughness, and I like their stealth field rule. Keep in mind they still benefit from cover, which is cool.

Unfortunately I am less inclined to take crisis, tides, and those big ones, but more inclined to take stealths.

But alas, my dream of doing suitspam effectively seems to be shattered. I didn't even like taking more than one riptide, and never took a stormsurge. I get boosting the price of those, but my crisis suits?

And was it really necessary to make broadsides 6w? Especially since they cost so much now

It seems that drones detach from their assigned squad once you deploy them. You can also allocate wounds from nearby units. Pathfinder drones are very intersting with their bonuses.

>>53569986
I plan on detaching the Pathfinder drones and double timing them straight over to my fire warrior gun line.

-d3 to enemy charges and 36" pulse rifles, for 16 points. Delicious.

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In the spirit of awful, I have constructed a very nice paint image of what I would like to dub the T'au Star! Made for anti-melee tactics since it will get shot to shit.

Where you basically have Crisis suits with flamers forming a gigantic ring with a bunch of drone units (preferably shield drones) hiding in the middle with tendrils going out to the suits for Savior Protocols. Since as long as the drone unit has any drones within 3 inch of a suit unit you can allocate wounds to them instead, yes this includes 30+ inches away at the other end of the conga line.

>>53569891

Ghostkeels cameoutof the Index relatively cheap too, I'm planning to run at least 3, maybe 4.

Crisis suits should be replaced with commanders, they're pretty efficient now considering the prohibitive cost of Crisis.

Riptides are dead, Stormsurge are more or less appropriately costed now and still pretty good in the LoW Detachment.

Broadsides are eh, I'd have preferred them to be closer to their old power level and cost.
Hammerheads fill the role better, especially with Longstrike support.

>>53570010

Yeah, a Strike team base with Fireblade and Accelerator Drone support is pretty nice now.
Especially when you cheese the RAW for Accelerator Drones and stack them.

How many Pathfinders are people planning to run now?

I'm looking at 2 units of 10 minimum, maybe 3.

>>53570256
Pathfinders are dirt cheap, and combined with their drones being cheap and markerlights not being penalized as heavy when they move, we should see more of them than ever.

However I see no benefits to taking large units of them. We have no shortage of FA slots with the way detachments are. And a bad morale test can really fuck over big units, so I'm thinking lots of min squads of 5. Probably 3 squads of 5.

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These beautys will see a lot of play now, im planning to play shadowsun,ghostkeels and stealthsuits in a vanguard detatchment, but now i have a question,

about the rule they all got of adding 1 / 2 (in the ghostkeel case) if some ork boyz are trying to shoot them and they have to roll 7+, they shoot or they cannot? because in some cases putting stealthsuits/ghostkeels in cover seem a little broken, just imagine it, space marines shooting at 6+ to a ghostkeel if it is in cover

>>53570373

Correct, anything that needs a base 5+ to hit won't be able to hit a Ghostkeel outside of 12''

>>53570559
Aren't there rules somewhere that has 6s always hit and 1s always fail, at least in the matched play section? I'm on my phone so I can't look it up

>>53570578

Good point, I'm used to 1's autofailing but 6's auto hit does sound familiar now that you mention it.
Can't look it up either atm

>>53570604
Well I know for a fact 6s autowound because of the new SvT table, but I'm not sure with hitting

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4TH SPHERE IS LOST TO THE WARP DESTINED TO BE FALL TO CHAOS.

WARP STORM PROXIMITY GOING TO START FUCKING WIT ETHEREALS.

CASTES BREAK AWAY TO MAKE SEGREGATED EMPIRES FOR FUNSIES

KROOT LEAVE, THEY KNOW WHEN TO JUMP SHIP.

ONLY FARSIGHT CAN SAVE YOU NOW.

>>53570648
Farsight is not the hero the empire needs. He is the hero the empire deserves.

>>53570578
I've heard about it but I found nothing of the sort in the book.

On that matter, "To-hit/wound/save rolls of 1s always fail" is the only rule that explicitly ignore modifiers. Everything else (like weapon effects needing 1s or 6s) are after modifiers.

So, for example, Longstrike headshots monsters on 5+ to-wound with his railgun and makes other Hammerheads in 6" immune to plasma feedback on overcharged Ion Cannon shots.

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Now that the Crisis are much more expensive, I see Vespids, now buffed, to be a much nicer substitute when you are shorter on points.

>>53570648
>4TH SPHERE IS LOST TO THE WARP DESTINED TO BE FALL TO CHAOS.
Nawww, GW just needed an excuse to finally justify why Tau were chosen to be a main faction over Hrud.

>>53569665
So, when did this apostrophe thing happen? Why can't they just be Tau without it? Is it just a lazy attempt at "TRADEMARK ™ TM DO NOT™ STEAL TM™ TM ™™™"?

>>53570774
Oh Hrud, where are you now.
Fuck, we need more auxillary armies and units.

I want loxatl units if we ever do get traitor militarum.

>>53570774
>Hruds
Skavens were a mistake. Space Skavens would be a fuck-up.

>>53570804
Because Tau is a greek letter

>>53570850
Fuck off anon.
I-It's not too late for Space Skaven.

>>53570850
Hrud haven't been Space Skaven since Xenology.

>>53570869
And T'au is so different from Tau. Very strong case they have there.

So fellow tau players
do we have a consensous on which models are garbage in our codex?
Riptides are trash?
Crisis suits (elites) aren't too good?
Commander xv8s are good?
How is the coldstar?
How are markerlight drones, I don't own any pathfinders
How are fireblades?
How are flyers (I own remora drones and barracuda), will they be viable if they're good?
How are xv25s and xv95s?
Are broadsides actually good?

>>53570900
If it's different it's copyrightable

>>53570900
Tau has been a GW trademark for a while you moron - even Necron is their trademark. I'm not sure you know how trademarks even work tho

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Are Crisis suits really bad this edition?
I wanted to start playing 40k with Tau a long while ago but decided to wait until 8e and save some money. I was thinking about Start Collecting, Optimised Pathfinder Team and Cadre Fireblade. Should I drop the Fireblade and buy a box of Stealth Battlesuits instead?

When will we get rules for FW models like XV9s and Barraudas?

Are Crisis suits really that bad now when you can put three flamers on them and make a wall of fire backed up by shield drones with savior protocols? That seems like a good counter for swarms when your three suits get 36 hits in the shooting phase and then 36 more in overwatch.

Can someone help me figure out order of operations on this? someone hits your unit, you roll your save and fail so there is a wound to assign. you assign it to a drone via savior protocol but with shield drones do they get a second save to prevent the wound?

>>53571613
It´s not that they are really bad, they now are just overpriced, starting with the things you mentioned is allright, and buying or not the fireblade is up to you, an ethereal does almost the same job as him and more but is more expensive than the fireblade, i suggest that if you are starting you build the crisis suits with anti-tank support, until you get a hammerhead or something like that it is a good way to start

>>53571673
no it's more like
You get shot at, they roll to wound, after successfully wounding your unit, you pick a drone to take the hit, if it has an applicable save then it may take it, otherwise it dies

>>53571673

I was of the understanding that you opponent rolls to hit and wound, but the drone takes the save.

It seems to occur at the "wound" stage, which would be triggered after a successful wound roll, but before saves and relevant "damage" assignment.

I could be wrong, but that's how I've interpreted it.

>>53570901

We have lost the classic JSJ maneuver, but our suits are more tanky.

Riptide is more like an overly expensive artillery piece instead of a killing machine. It's more risky to do Nova charges now. They have tripled the price or so.

Crisis suits are more tanky and shot more, but have doubled the price. Also, T'au plasma is weaker compared to Imperium's plasma. I would say that Vespids will fill the role of Crisis on smaller point games.

Coldstar are insanely fast. M "20 + another "20 if you advance. A good advance targeting system could make these an ideal character hunter. Also, the grounding test is gone.

Pathfinders are cheaper than marker drones, drone controller has been nerfed. Fireblades now buffs nearby squads.

Bombers are good. Indeed, they are excellent to kill hordes and infantry. They cause mortal wounds.

Broadsides are tankiers and have gained even more firepower, but are more expensive. You should think of them more like SM Dreadnoughts than the classic Broadsides. Missilesides are expensives, but shot a lot of missiles. Railsides causes mortal wounds. Target Lock allows them to move without penalties.

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Tidewall Shieldlines just became open-topped transports, so I'm planning on running three of them with five-man teams of Fire Warriors and Pathfinders in each one. Gonna give the Pathfinders two rail-rifles per 5-man squad, and put a pulse accelerator drone behind each line, as well as a Cadre Fireblade for an extra pulse shot inside of half range. Going to use either Broadsides (with advanced targeting systems and HYMPs) or Hammerheads for my long-range anti-tank, and marker drones for extra markerlights and ablative wounds. Probably two teams of stealth suits for infiltration shenanigans as well, and maybe a Devilfish with two squads of breachers for objective grabbing. Haven't made an 1850pt list yet, so i'm not entirely sure how much more I could fit into this, but I'm confident I can field at least this much.

Shields are very cheap now. They cost 11 points.

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>>53569665
>Be IG player
>hear Riptides got nerfed, start rejoicing
>remember new guy who bought a ton of the big stompy robots because he loved the look of them
>Genuinely nice guy, had no idea how broke they were in 7th
>He might be genuinely screwed this edition

Is he boned? The guy has 1-2 of all the big Tau stuff that isn't forgeworld and probably 3 riptides. Obviously he's not taking all of that in the same list again but as long as he can make something out of his collection that's halfway decent then he'll be ok. I know he has some fire warriors and kroot, but the majority of list would be the larger suits.


Also I'm genuinely sorry that you guys got a stupid TM name too, fucking T'au, really? That's an even dumber change than ours.

>>53572008
so are riptides worth taking? Does stimulant injector defend against mortal wounds?
Is it just better to run my crisis suits as commanders?
So coldstars are good, is spamming them viable?
Ok so pathfinders are completely superior to marker drones, would an armoured assault box do well with the devilfish converted to a hammerhead?
Are hammerheads good?
Is longstrike good?
Are stealthsuits any good? I heard they're like primaris marines but more survivable
And I also heard that ghostkeels are pretty good as well, if they are I'll be running it in place of a riptide
also are piranhas any good?

>>53572040

Try 8pts senpai.

>>53572108

Depends what he has.

Stormsurge are still good, although slightly more expensive.
Ghostkeels are pretty damn attractive right now, expect to see a lot of them.

>>53572207


Oh, yeah, you are right. Stupid low quality leaks.

Here are the leaks.

http://pintorjoakero.blogspot.com.es/2017/05/taus-8th-index-leaks.html

Today I joined the Greater Good comrades!

I've been out of the loop for about 12 years. Some of my friends recently started with Shadow Wars and I guess most are planing to expand into 8ed soon enough, so I decided to return as well. Thing is, I've never played Tau before. I really like the aesthetics of the infantry and vehicles, but I'm not a fan of the mechs. So this being an infantry heavy edition sounds perfect to me. I don't know if it's gonna be fun to play though.

Could you guys help me? I would like some help please. I bought a set of pathfinders and can't decide how to kit them out. Rail Rifles look sexy, but I don't know how useful they are in play. Is 3 rail rifles end 5 pulse rifles viable? What weapon should my Shas'ui use in that case?

>>53572394

pulse carbines*

>>53572394
Step 1: magnetize everything
Step 2: now you can test kits yourself and change them when the meta (or your playstyle) changes
Step 3: do something with all the money you saved

>>53572394

Get carbines unless you have plenty of markerlights elsewhere. Markerlights are attached to carbines.

>>53572394
As this Anon said >>53572488 magnetize everything. T'au and Nids are just perfect for this

>>53572488

I think I'll magnetize my tanks and such. Thanks for the tip. Although, Pathfinder teams are cheap so I've got no problem wasting money on them.

>>53572516

Alright! Wouldn't a rail rifle we worth it for some diversity in Shadow Wars though?

>>53572583

Rail weapons are good. They cause additional mortal wound on a 6+.

>>53572394
Rail Rifles are fucking great in this edition. 5pts for the guy, and 22pts for the gun. You get a S6 Rapid Fire Ap-4, D3 Damage gun, and any 6's to wound cause an automatic mortal wound on top of whatever damage you do. I'm going to use them for Rhino killing, and fucking up Terminators and Primaris.

>>53572650
Also forgot to say that in 8e everyone has split fire by default, so your special weapons aren't wasted.

Markerlights are no longer expend on use, multiple units can use them.

1 - Re-roll hit rolls of 1.
2 - Fire Destroyer/Seeker Missile with model's ballisitic skill + modifiers.
3 - Do not suffer penalty for moving and firing Heavy weapons or Advancing and firing Assault weapons.
4 - Removes cover.
5 - +1 to BS.

>>53572648
>>53572650

So, 3 rail rifles in my squad is reasonable? I'll probably buy another pathfinder squad anyways if I need to even it out.

I'd like to thank everyone for their input btw.

>>53570373
>filename
heh

>>53572676
Once I saw the rules, I started laughing so hard at all the retards saying they nerfed markerlights. I'd take this over single-use infinite BS-boosters any day.

I really like the look of nuisance stealth suit teams. 3, with a fusion blaster, and ATS's on the burst cannon models, only costs 117 points. And they'll be tricky to kill with their stealth fields and extra wound & toughness.

In fact, I really like the combo of an advanced targeting system on a burst cannon in general. S5 AP-1 Assault 4 seems pretty tasty for general anti-infantry work, especially if this edition really is infantryhammer.

>>53572676
Are the effects cumulative?

Do my units have to take cover into account if I get one too many markerlight hits?

>>53572875

It says: "All benefits are cumulative."

>>53572822
I was tempted to run dual-burst and ATS on a 3-man Crisis Team and go marine hunting. They'd be pretty good for killing anything that's not multi-wound, actually.

>>53572676

Mmm. My only question is what happens if you hit a units with markerlights 6 or more times. My guess is that nothing.

>>53572946
Once you hit 5 ML counters, you've achieved maximum rape effect.

>>53572822
My preferred fact about Stealth suits is how their T4 W2 3+ profile says "shoot overcharged plasma at me" and how their stealth rule says "Please, do shoot overcharged plasma at me, I dare you".

>>53572822
Holy shit, I just realized that the new Stealth Suits are basically the old Crisis Suit, except with -1 to hit against. Goddamn, they're going to be so fun to use.

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What about Breacher Team? Are they any better in this edition?

>>53573096

They might work a bit better thanks to Grav Drones and Recon Drones giving bonuses to nearby units.

>>53573096
i see them more of an optional troop to field depending on the oponent, if your opponent has marines of heavy infantry they are good to go, but aside that i dont see much diference from strike teams with carbines

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>>53573096
They cost less, but retain the exact same profile on their guns. Not as brutal as before, but still pretty decent at marine killing.

Interesting, you no longer pay for Shas'ui leaders for Firewarriors, or any other team leader.

and why pathfinders are cheap now?, they cost the same as a full armed firecast warrior, remember that yes, they cost 5 points, but you have to pay 0 for their carbines and 3 for their markerlights=8,the same as firewarriors

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>>53569665
>Stealthsuits are improved
>Ghostkeels are cheaper
>My army grows stronger, being made up almost entirely of the above

>>53572822
Advanced Targeting system is a bit on the expensive side though, a quarter of the price of a Stealth.

I think a Velocity Tracker would be nicer. Everything and their mother has the Fly keywords in V8 so, +1BS for 2 points can get real good.

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>>53569665
Fuck you, space-gooks! The united imperium of America will not stand for your space-communism!

>>53573269
Better than the 11pts they were before, and they're dirt cheap if you want short-ranged objective holders.

>>53573412
You're just jealous that our fascism works and yours doesn't

>>53573305
Mine was almost entirely breachers, fire warriors, pathfinders, broadsides and fusion crisis. With the exception of the fusion crisis, basically my whole army got buffed. I had a few stealth suits, but I bought a few more the other day because I think they're going to be fun as fuck in 8e.

>>53569665
Can a hammerhead take troops as a transport?

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>>53574214
What?

>>53574309
No need to overreact, it's a simple question with a simple answer.
>>53574214
No, hammerhead aren't transport.

>>53574214
No, but a Devilfish can.

>>53572032
I don't think the aura abilities work on units inside the wall since its a transport. also you wouldn't get to overwatch due to open top only working during shooting phase

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What a time to be alive.

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Comparison of the price increase for Tau units.

Might as well ask here as well...

Does this seem fun/decent/whatever for smaller games (my club typically plays 1000-1500 points)? Trying to get my dudes painted up now people hopefully won't refuse games as soon as they hear the word "tau", even though I never liked the big suits. Don't know if I've got too little infantry, is it worth dropping some drones & seeker missiles to try to shoehorn in another squad?

>Tau, Patrol detachment, 999/1000 points.

>HQ
Cadre fireblade - 42
2 Gun drones - 16

>Troops
11 Fire warriors (11 pulse rifles, 1 markerlight) - 91
2 Gun drones - 16

>Elites
3 Stealth suits (2 with burst cannon & ATS, 1 with fusion blaster & drone controller) - 122
2 Marker drones - 20

>FA
10 Pathfinders (7 pulse carbines & markerlights, 3 rail rifles) - 137
Recon drone, pulse accelerator drone - 30

>HS
Hammerhead gunship (railgun, 2 burst cannons) - 175

1 Broadside (heavy rail rifle, 2 plasma rifle, 1 seeker missile, shield generator) - 178
2 Missile drone - 40

>DT
Devilfish (1 seeker missile) - 132

Undecided whether the fire warriors or pathfinders ride the devilfish. If it's the fire warriors the drones run alongside, btw.

Okay I'm new to tau and have no idea where to start, especially in the face of a new edition.
Do I get the old codex and use that as a base or I wait for the index?
I already bought a used xv8 crisis battlesuit commander, a riptide, and am planning on getting two of the get started boxes but other than that I have no idea how to actually put the force together.

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>>53577217

Everything is in the 8th edition xenos book (volume 2, I believe). Get pathfinders, they are really good in this edition. Also more firewarriors. Don't spam suits, they are too costly now.

>>53577285
It's out?

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>>53577359
>8th edition

June 3. Tomorrow.

In other news:

>Lady Atia "Let's say so much - you will be getting some new tau stuff that's not directly part of the t'au empire "

>>53577454
That's preorder only. They are released on the 17th

>>53577454
Human Tau miniatures?
Giant anime figures to counter the loss of giant anime robots?
Farsight as his own faction?

>>53577897
Chaos T'au

>>53577986
>Tau with random spiky bits and painted one of 4 colors
Seems lackluster.

>>53576946
Great stuff - thank you Anon. So it looks like I just need to buy a box of stealth suits and I'm good to go

>>53578027
Nah mate, Farsight is already chaos-possessed and I don't really see any spikes on him

Any of you people buy FW stuff?

>>53578078
Nope. I find FW stuff worse sculpt-wise than some GW stuff lately. Their __aos__ models are far worse than actually decent GW ones

>>53578106
>age of sigmar
Nothing in that entire line is aesthetically pleasing, too bloated and trying to emulate 40k.

>>53578078
>>53578106
My favorite FW sculpt is the Hazard suit. I made my own kitbashed imitation hazard suits. I loved them for the dual twin-linked burst cannons, but alas I fear with the trend in making non-stealth battlesuits hyper expensive, the FW indexes may offer little comfort to one of my favorite battlesuits.

Y'know, vespids look pretty decent in 8th.

>>53578565

I hope FW doesn't nerf everything into uselessness. I have no idea how FW balancing is going to look like.
Seriously, it is up in the air how their stuff will look

>>53578078
I've got some of their drone sentry turrets, but that's about it.

I also picked up the missile pod upgrade for the Hammerhead from them more recently, since with the changes from the new edition I really like the idea of running a full Tank force led by Longstrike

>>53579201
Fuck, that's actually legal with the spearhead detachment isn't it?

>>53580100
Yep. I was actually really excited to learn they made him an HQ.

Funny, I was just mathing out HH vers riptides

riptide+IA 316 pts
BS 4+, Heavy 3 S7 AP-3 D1, Overcharge Heavy D6 S8 AP-3 Dd3

2 Hammerheads with ion cannon 344 pts
BS3+, Heavy 3 S7 AP-2 D2, Overcharge Heavy D3 S8 AP-2 D3, Heavy D6 against 10 or more models

Against T4, <10 models
tide normal: 1 wound on 1 model
tide overcharge: 1.34 models hit with 2 wounds
HH normal: 2.67 models hit with 2 wounds
HH overcharge: 2.23 models hit with 3 wounds

Against T4, 10+ models
tide normal: 1 wound on 1 model
tide overcharge: 1.34 models hit with 2 wounds
HH normal 2.67 models hit with 2 wounds
HH overcharge: 3.89 models hit with 3 wounds

>>53580573

riptide with ion 316 pts

2 hammerheads with railguns 310 pts

Against T4 models
submunitions: 3.11 models hit with 1 wound

Against lemming ruse (T8 3+)
Riptide IA: 0.5 pre save wounds, 0.42 wounds D1
Riptide overcharge: 0.875 pre save wounds, 0.73 wounds at d3 ave 2 = 1.46
HH railguns: 3.11 wounds, save ignored, on a 6+ to wound add average 2 mortal wounds
HH Ion: 1.332 pre save wounds, 0.89 wounds at D2=1.78
HH Ion overcharge:1.334 pre save wounds, 0.89 wounds at D3=2.67

IA tide is just plain bad now lol

>>53577454
I think it will be more tau auxilaries. But anyway where did you get that info from?

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Do we have an image gallery with T'au rules pics? I want to put them into single pdf without other faction rules etc.

>>53577454
Demiurg models are back?

>>53582910
Definitely sounds auxilliary. I've always wanted gue'vesa models, or more kroot shit. Not sure I want them to do an entirely new line of models for non-dwarfs. I've got AoS for my dorf fix.

>>53574361
>it's a simple question with a simple answer.
It's not. Look at the question.

>Can a hammerhead take troops as a transport?
It's not "can troops take a hammerhead as a transport?", as in, for example, a squad of Fire Warriors taking a ride inside a Hammerhead.
It's "can a hammerhead take troops as a transport"?, meaning the Hammerhead is taking a ride inside the Fire Warriors.

When you buy fusion blaaters for the riptide you buy two of them right? So 42 points.

>>53583350
Yep. TL discount is no longer a thing. You always have to buy 2 of them if the model has 2.

[107 pt Screamer Killer teleports behind you]

>>53582092
See.

>>53572388

>>53583076
The problem with Gue'vesa models, as cool as they'd look, how would the stats differ from fire warriors? slightly crappier gear on slightly stronger troops... six of one and half dozen of the other, they'd come out looking the same.

Ok so how do flamers work in the new edd can i have a squad of 3 cry suits with 3 flamers each and overwatch for 9d6 hits? cus that seems too good against well most things

>>53583782
Fire warriors with 4+ melee and they cost a bit more.
Alternatively they cost less and are guardsmen but you can give them pulse rifles as an inexpensive upgrade.

>>53583797
Yup, that is how i read it. 9D6 in the shooting phase and then another 9D6 when the survivors charge you. so, an average of 63 hits between the two phases? somewhere around 25 damage to most infantry units?

>>53583782
>>53583828

Alternatively you could employ them not as foot soldiers, but as heavy weapons guys.

>>53583797
And flamers are exempt from the "only hits on 6's" rule. Flamers auto-hit

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>>53583782
>>53583828

I say, Gue'vesa guerrillas, Infiltrators, and Saboteurs would fit. Yeah, it wouldn't work against Orks and the like, but they can still work as infiltrators. Kroots are already master of jungles. Gue'vesa masters of urban warfare.

>>53584323
I'm building a T'ros drop trooper list with Elysian models and Tau bits, something like that would fit

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>>53584915

It sounds good to me.

>>53584915
I kinda want to make some Elysian ODST's to fight my Covenant Tau

If less people are going to be playing Tau and more people will be actually painting their armies, I'll definitely enjoy 8th

>>53577454
>>53583076
I'm really hoping for more Kroot stuff now that they actually have a handful of different units instead of everything being bundled up as Carnivore squads.

I really want to make a full force of them, but I'm not sure what to do for anti-armor

>>53587146
Yeah I do really like how they split them up again. Never seemed right all in the same unit. Ive only ever seen a full maxed out kroot squad used effectively in an apocalypse game.

>>53587273
Yeah. It was always odd, since the Kroot hounds were fast, but were chained down by the 10 mandatory carnivores, so people mostly just took 1 for Outflanking purposes. Then the Krootox were just weird to try and infiltrate in a blob to protect them. And the Shaper itself was weirdly durable, but didn't do much.

Now Kroot hounds are properly fast and good at hunting down targets weakened by Kroot shooting, Krootoxes are properly backline support that can slowly advance, and Shapers give actual bonuses serving as a mini-HQ.

If there's one sad thing, it's that we lost Kroot snipers. Would have been nice to still have them as some elite option that was more pricey and a smaller squad or something, but what can you do? At least now basic carnivores can also shoot and charge with their rifles.

>>53587329
Yeah kroot sniper loss is a tragedy. I rarely ran kroot, but if I did, I would run snipers.

But thinking about it, I don't think they would give them sniper rules, maybe just a 1pt gun that made their attacks ap1 on 6s or something

>>53589361
Yeah, just some Heavy 1 gun for them that had some extra AP for a bit of anti-armor potential.

>>53589399
But only if they kept it cheap, because the trend with 8e Tau is make guns super expensive, and the seems to be few exceptions

>>53587329

better than those shitty drone snipers

>>53589458
That's true for a lot of armies though.

Still, I feel like that if they had like, Heavy 1, 30" range, S 4, AP -1, that'd be fine for a more sniper-esque kroot rifle, and that would be maybe 2 points at most.

Then you could take a small squad of those to back up your main kroot blobs, or use them for picking off slightly better armored targets compared to fire warriors.

>>53589495
Done snipers actually look good now though. I'm liking their new rules. The fact that the Marksman only needs to see the drones for them to get any benefit makes them more attractive

Hey, we got told at one point that there will be stratagems that allow certain units to be taken in alternate battle roles, didn't we? What if we get a Kroot-only Stratagem that allows Shapers to be taken as HQ? I'm already expecting a Farsight rule for crisis-troops, which will be less broken now that suits cost so much.

Been trying to make a 500pt Patrol out of the SC! kit. It's a bit finicky to actually fill the full 500 with only stuff from the box. This is what I'm at right now-

-Ethereal w/Hover Drone and 2x Shield Drone
-10x FW w/Pulse Rifles, SMS turret, Guardian Drone, Shield Drone, 'Ui has a ML
-2x Crisis w/2*MP+SI and 4x ML Drones
-1x Crisis w/2*PR+FB

Comes to exactly 500pt. I would have preferred different setups on the Crisis, but this was the setup that fit best within the points. I could drop the FB to give all the suits ATS, but that leaves me with an awkward lump of leftover points. SMS turret so I can use its MP on the suits.

>>53589923
You do have a lot of upgrades, with maxed out drones and a turret and stimulant injectors and so on. I'd maybe drop some of that stuff, load out the crisis suits how you want, and go from there.

Also, if you are going to take markerlight drones it's probably worth giving one of the crisis suits a drone controller. Drones have shit BS now, and since you need 5 markerlights rather than 1 to boost the to hit roll you can't daisy-chain them.

>>53590159
To fill the 500pts with just the SC, it was necessary to load up on upgrades like that. I may try rearranging suit upgrades a bit, though.

>>53583646
>http://pintorjoakero.blogspot.com.es/2017/05/taus-8th-index-leaks.html
But Anon, they are blurry as fuck. Didn't anyone take other pics of the index?

Can self inflicted mortal wounds be passed on to any drone unit thanks to savior protocols?

>>53584323
>>53577454

The problem with Gue'vesa is that they are directly a part of the Tau empire, aren't they? a mercenary force or allied race would meet the "not directly part of the T'au empire" bit.

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Who is in command the 4th Sphere of Expansion? Who is in command of the 5th one?

If anyone's wondering, The Eight are 1435 points in 8th edition if you count Torchstar as a crisis suit, or 1469 is you count her as a commander. There is loads of wargear missing though:
>neuroweb (torchstar)
>MSS (torchstar)
>vectored retrothrusters (sha'vastros)
>puretide chip (sha'vastros)
>earth caste pilot array (ob'lotai)
>iridium battlesuit (bravestorm)
>onager gauntlet (bravestorm)
>fusion blades (brightsword) (I did include the points for the 2 fusion blasters though)
>repulsor impact field (arra'kon)

Just to save time if anyone else is as sad as me.

>>53592380
Wait, I meant o'vesa, not ob'lotai. Whatever.

>>53589909
Shapers are HQ already, bro. Yes, you can already run a kroot only list

>>53593799
No, they're definitely Elites for whatever reason.

You'll need to toss in an Ethereal or something

I'm worried about the skyray. I fear it will now suck vs fliers.

>>53594491
Yeah. It lost its niche of having Skyfire markerlights, and its seeker missiles aren't even as accyrate against them. Plus they do a lot less damage.

It needed to have +1 to hit against flyers, and the missiles themselves needed to be +1 damage against vehicles

>>53594491
I actually think its going to be great at dealing with some flyers. All you need is 2 markerlights on it to launch all 6 missiles on it at bs3 and rerolling 1s. Up to 6 mortal wounds should be enough to knock any flyer down a bracket at least.

>>53572187
>Does stimulant injector defend against mortal wounds?
Yes.
>Ok so pathfinders are completely superior to marker drones,
depends, marker drones can also be taken with any unit and act as ablative wounds for any tau unit. pathfinders have lots of cool equipment. its a tough choice

longstrike is good
hammerheads are good, both ion cannon and rail gun can still one shot smaller vehicles
tau vehicles are very speedy compared to most others. that goes for the hammerhead, devilfish and piranha. especially with advancing rules and how assault weapons work. they are still tougher than their similar compatriots. I personally like the piranha, it is very speedy now and its low profile will always make it easier to get into cover. i actually think tau vehicles are all pretty good. a shame they can't take wargear

>>53572008
what do jet packs do? or do we still don't know?

>>53591545
Tau khorne berserkers.
They are essentially ork boyz that get +1 attack on the charge and get a 4+ save.

>>53595083
Im pretty sure the jet pack keyword does nothing yet. It's just a keyword which denotes unit type. Only the fly keyword has specific rules exceptions.

>>53592380
>vectored retrothrusters (sha'vastros)

to be fair, everyone can opt out of combat and fly allows you to jump out of combat and still shoot.

>>53594678
I'm fine with seeker missiles being a mortal wound on essentially a 2+ as long as you get two marker lights. that's actually pretty good, especially if you can take something down that one or two wounds it needs to get to get to its damage threshold

some one was complaining about how they don't ignore cover anymore. Which just told me they didn't understand the point of mortal wounds. they do however need line of sight. but if you're using two marker lights as you said their fired at the users bs and rerolling 1s and all you need to do is to hit to take a wound.


>>53594491
the no velocity trackers on it or wargear on vehicles in general kinda sucks.

>most fliers are hard to hit
>-1 to dice rolled in the attack phase
>get marker light on flier
>roll a 2
>-1 brings it to 1
>can reroll it

Am i reading this right?

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So, <Sept> . It looks lile a placehomder for special rules fir the different septs, like chapters or regiments. If so, what do you think each sept will bring?

>>53595476
I hope N'Dras gets something pretty spooky.

Aside from that, a lot of Septs don't have much detail. Usually just which caste is most populous there and what units they have the best of.

Like, I think there's one specializing more in void combat, so they have really skilled
breacher teams and razorshark pilots. So that might just be bonuses to infantry in really close ranges along with flyers. Others are just industrial worlds that pump out tanks and battlesuits, so y might just get a small boost in durability or shooting to those units. Like +1 wound for Riptides and anything with a Devilfish chassis

>>53595599
>world is known for vehicles
>vehicles get target locks

Even if they have to pay the higher cost for a target lock. This is all i want.

>>53595824
Actually, just letting them have access to support systems in general would be a pretty sweet bonus. You'd have to make them count as a Ghostkeel or a Riptide so things are properly costed, but that'd be an awesome way to show off how tanks from that world have better craftsmanship

>>53595990
Vehicles not getting access to support equipment is my biggest gripe, but that's because i'm a tau armored company type of guy.

But like i said, i'll bargain just for target locks. I know that 3 marker lights is all i need to essentially get that sort of mobile fire power, and that's not going to be that hard to do anyways.

The skyray is just begging for velocity tracker or a target lock.

>>53595476
Taken from the codex this can be something they could have:

>Tau´n is known for its orbital fleet and air caste pilots

Improved Jink and benefits for the shark bombers, drones and fighters

>T´au is the homeplanet

Vanilla benefits for having an especial character (Farsight could be there as a way to represent his glory days as the hero he once was),basic rerolls for impact rolls in a small area around that hero.

>D´yanoi has fought countless ork invasions
Benefits in their stats and flamers if they fight orks, this bonus could be for the Fi´rios and vior´la septs too the same with Ke´lshan but in that case, against tyranids

and there are alot more unit focused septs, like Elsy´eir with the riptides and Tash´var with breacher teams

What exactly is the purpose of a homing beacon used for again? It's not like manta strikes for Crisis Suits will scatter anymore. Is it supposed to allow other units to perform a Manta Strike-style insertion onto the table?

>>53597659
fusion blaster assaults. get fusion blasters within 9"

Who excited for FW rules?

Can't wait to see the absurd numbers of the Manta

>>53595405

Technically yes, although most people don't actually do it like this.
Most people reroll in modified 1s, which is faster but wrong.

>>53597659
You know how deep striking can only get you close enough to 9" away from what you want to shoot? Homing bacons get you closer than that. Especially for fusion blasters and flamers

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>>53573412
ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
men battle brader

>>53599319
hmm that's true since i guess there's also no low cap, so 1s turn into 0s.

(yes, i am new) Looking at something like the Piranha and it looks awesome at first glance, 12 attacks! but the BS 4+ means only around 6 hits per turn. And the S5 means only 4 wounds against most infantry. And saves means only about 2 actual wounds will get through.. is this right?

>>53600803

if your shooting at gaunts (which you should be preparing to do a lot considering the nid buffs) then you're gonna be killing 4 per piranha instead of 2.

if you're shooting at a target with 5 lights on it then you'll be hitting with 9 and killing 8 gaunts, 5 stealers, 3 marines or 1 and a half primarines.

all on a relatively cheap platform compared to other races alternatives. piranhas are good mang, take 5

>>53600803
That's about right. The biggest change this edition was the lost of original twin-linking (rerolling misses) and the major change to markerlights. Those are all tools that would combat the 4+ bs.

Now you are just looking at double the shots and usually re-roll 1s. It helps but its not bringing us to the level of accuracy before. We are going to have to find out how to work around it. With markerlights though, when you mark something up with 5 lights, it's pretty much marked for death and your army is going to have to be ready for it and capitalize on it effectively, otherwise its wasted lights. Its going to be a challenge.

>>53600915

But to get 5 markerlights on a unit would basically mean you have a dedicated markerlight unit to do that, right? You still need to land hits with markerlights so you are looking at ~10 units using their turns to mark every round. That doesn't seem worth the points unless you are fielding a large army that is going to hing on keeping the squishy markers alive...

And while it would be awesome (And i would have to play flight of the Valkyrie while fielding them) to have 5 piranhas on the table, i am not sure i want to be dropping ~140 bucks on a single squad to start with. Someday though.

>>53601129
Pathfinders are dirt cheap now though

yvarna or rvarna?

>>53603020
Y'vahrna is cooler

>>53601129
marker lights are cheap, and what you do now is a rippling fire of marker lights, spread them around, take several small teams of path finders as well as marker drones on some units. you can give a marker light to a fire warrior for 3 points and even if he moves he fires it at only a -1. which can be compensated for by a previous marker light hit especially now that he doesn't have to aim at the target.

light up one unit with path finders and as other units fire at it use the marker lights on those units to light up other units using a single marker light hit can help other markers hit. so while a units marker lights might not be helping themselves, they can set up the next unit. and all the units that don't have marker lights should be firing last obviously.

>>53605839
>so while a units marker lights might not be helping themselves
Why not? I see no rule that says that the firing unit doesn't benefit from markers it placed earlier. Take an ML in your FW team, fire it first, and if it hits, the rest of the squad benefits from it. Not bad for 3pts.

>>53605890
marker lights never usually work that way because firing is sequential so you can never usually benefit from your own marker lights, but its not really a problem since you should be firing marker light only units first. even easier now that marker drones act as their own squads now so you'll be able to shoot them before even path finder teams or afterwards.

Also reading the marker light rules it clearly states that you place a counter down only after a unit is hit by a marker light, and the a unit only benefits from marker light counters that are already down. so no a unit does not benefit from its own marker lights since there's no counter on the table when they elect to fire.

>>53605953
Shooting rules state that "attacks can be made one at a time" which means you can resolve an entire attack before doing the next. The Markerlight rules state "the table below describes the benefits that T'au Empire models have when shooting at a unit that has Markerlight counters." Nowhere does it state that it checks for counters when the attack is declares, only when the individual model attacks. Ergo, if the FW with ML attacks first and places ML counter, the other FWs benefit from it as the counter is on the target when they shoot at it. Similarly, Pathfinders benefit from MLs fired by earlier members of their own squads.

Yes, this is not how it worked before, but before there was a specific line staying you couldn't benefit from your own unit's ML, and that line is not here. Further, we had the Networked Markerlight which allowed you to bypass this restriction, which no longer exists because it would be redundant, same as how Target Lock now does something completely different, and Vectored Thrusters are gone.

>>53606125
I didn't realize that individual models could shoot now. Even better. i was already thinking of giving every team leader a marker light since they're cheap and can more easily be snap fired.

I don't have the core rules handy just the tau leak.

>>53606162
In general, I'm thinking ML changes were a sidegrade, not a nerf. They're still potent, but in different ways than before. It's easier to get them on targets, and they aren't expended by use, at the cost of their benefits being more situational. I'm curious to see how the changes play out. Also, if what I said above is correct (which it is as far as I can tell by RAW, but may get errata'd), then firing a squad of 10 PFs is going to be a very slow process if you want to fire individually until you land your first ML, then reroll 1s after that.

>>53606215
that's what i'm thinking but really only the first, and 5th marker matter for stationary path finders firing marker lights and you're not going to fire after the 5th anyways

3rd marker only matters if they moved.

fire one at a time and then fire them in pairs if they moved or in groups of 4 (or less if you're going for a specific level).

>>53603629
yeah, yv's got a pretty sweet jet assembly
but the rv's got a neat head as well as wicked looking guns if painted right

maybe I should just dump money for both

>>53606259
I'm still a bit disappointes by how much 1-rerolling we have going on. I read support systems before ML effects, and really liked the flavor of the MT. However, it doesn't stack with a single ML, so if you're running a decent quantity of MLs, it's just redundant. Ethereal's Storm of Fire does the same exact thing. What if I wanted to run an Ethereal to buff the shooting of a squad of Crisis who got benefits for focusing a single target, with the help of some Pathfinders? Atm 2 of the 3 buffs would be worthless.

>>53606215
>ML changes were a sidegrade, not a nerf
That's what I've been saying! It's a lateral move. Not a buff or a nerf. It just means we will have to learn our army all over again. That's something the waacfags that are selling their riptides on ebay don't understand.

>>53606322
I came in very late to 7th, when Tau strategy was largely codified already. I'm really looking forward to being part of the effort to figure out Tau again and how they operate in this brave new world.

>>53606315
they're systems in lieu of marker lights either dropping in late game where marker lights are not guaranteed or hitting deep targets etc.

shield generator is good
Velocity tracker might be great since a lot of things seem to be able to fly. i mean any hover vehicle.
early warning override doesn't take up your fire any more. so that's great for defense.
others are situational for how you're playing.

>>53606365
don't believe in waac lies. you can have fun with sub optimal builds as long as you like the challenge.

>>53606291

relevant
when is FoC coming out and what is releasing new with it?

Checking, support systems on suits don't have fixed corresponding pieces, right? We can just use whatever weird antenna-y thing we want, as long as we communicate its significance to our opponent?

Speaking of support systems, what are opinions?
ATS - My go-to, as everybody can benefit from better AP.
Counterfire - Unsure where to take these. I know we'll be seeing a lot more melee this edition, but I haven't figured out what works best. Double BC + CDS?
DC - Nice if you want to use gun or ML drones
EWO - Planning to take on MP suits to snipe incoming reinforcements
MT - Redundant, sadly. I like the idea, but the effect is useless if you use ML.
Shield Gen/Stim Inj - Looking at these on FB suits so they can survive long enough to close to melta range.
Target Lock - Mostly redundant with MLs, with the exception that it allows advancing and firing with Rapid Fire. Mobile PR suits, anyone?
VT - Nice buff, given so many things have Fly this edition.

>>53606426
EWO only triggers within 12".

if anything give it to triple plasma suits in a key part of your defense.

>>53606392
Ah, I hadn't considered the delivery component. Okay, I can see MT being useful on DS suits. Storm of Fire still seems a bit odd as the Ethereal will be with the bulk of your army, likely close to PFs, but I suppose you can just use other Invocations until your PFs get killed.

That setup I gave was purely a hypothetical for how the lack of stacking could get weird.

>>53586721
You're going to be seeing a lot of unpainted tyranids

>>53570648
Battle suit looks like a retarded fucking lego. What type of fag would ever play this army.

>>53606454
Ooh, I missed that. That does combo pretty well with PR. Hm, what to give to missile suits, then? MT for distant targets, or ATS for extra heavy-infantry-hunting?

>>53595405
If AoS is any indication of intent, rerolls are done before modifiers. So rerolls of 1 only work on natural rolls.

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Well, bad news is, no rules for any Kroot it seems. I'm curious to see what Technical Drones end up doing

>>53606461
yeah its disappointing that its effect doesn't stack

>>53606474
velocity trackers will be surprisingly good. lots of things have fly, like any jet / jump pack troops, any hovering vehicle etc. and they're not even that pricy as far as war gear goes. and generally things that fly are fast and fast things getting close to tau is a bad thing. basically cancels out most fast fliers hit bonus too.

and 2 points per suit...

>>53606482
that makes sense.

>>53606482
>>53606520
It would also just be a pain if you want off of the modified instead of natural roll.

>>53606426
I think some of the bits actually do line up with specific things. The most obvious one is the disc being the shield generator.

If I recall the hex-shaped ball with all the dots is the Multi-tracker, and the tiny narrow one that looks like a smaller set of battlesuit head lenses is the Target lock

Generally though, expect nobody to actually know or notice aside from the Shield Gen

>>53606550
this, the multi-tracker was also a drone controller for the longest time so it really doesn't matter.

>>53606426

ATS is best on things where a little AP change can go a long way.
Like the surge, definitely wanna stick the ATS on that so the missile barrages can wound much more
Or burst cannons
When you've got plasma suits, a little bit more AP doesnt help as much as raw shots fired

EWO best on something backline like an artillery surge to also protect the rest of the backline

>>53606652
you can also think of ATS as ignores cover but better since it'll compensate for any cover anyone is in but do you one better in the open too. so don't think too poorly of it on plasma suits.

again EWO only triggers within 12" so only if your back line is grouped together.

Apparently 8th edition takes place a hundred years after 7th. I guess Shadowsun is put on ice again.

>>53607233

Source?
Would explain how they already prepped another expac fleet

>>53607362

Dark Imperium.

>>53601225

so what is the consensus on railsides? are they worth the huge price tag?

>>53608254
They're costly, but pack a huge wollop now. Will need testing to see exact value, but current price doesn't seem radically off of predicted value. The mortal sounds are fancy.

>>53607233
If the Tau went from figuring out fire is hot to mastering fusion in 4,000 years, and in the past few hundred years they have undergone huge expansions across multiple star systems, shouldnt they be up there with the Eldar and Necrons as having finished science by now?

>>53609954
>implying T'au technology departments are focusing on anything other than making bigger and badder suits these days

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>>53610376

given the new point cost of suits maybe they should start

So, what loadouts for crisis suits are good now against MEQ? I like the new models and would like to use least two units of three.

>>53609954
>shouldnt they be up there with the Eldar and Necrons as having finished science by now?

They are a engineered race, their technological progression was designed to plateau. Tau developed quickly at first for the same reason, their accomplishments are actually someone else's.

Tau player reporting after playing a 1000 point match against imperial guard and chaos space marines (3 way battle)
AP-2 weapons are gold, and vespid deliver them in a cheap way
gundrones are so broken they should be banned right away
stealthsuits are good, but i think that vespids are better (buth stealthsuits can carry a drone controller wich is very usefull)
the 4plasma commander was petty usefull to damage leman russes
shooting 5 markerlights to a squad more or less guarantees killing it with just looking at it (even with 10 drones shooting at a 13 chaos space marine squad)

BTW leman russes were shit all the match, they don't have enough firepower to justify paying them i just ignored them more or less

In general, gundrones are ridiculously broken with 4 shots and thoughess 4, armour +4 plus they can take wounds intended for the riptide and plasma commander and other expensie units for an 8 point package
4 plasma commander is pretty nice
pathfinders are a must for all those cheap markerlights
a cadre fireblade is really nice for shooting the first markerlight, and then the pathfinders shoot markerlights rerolling 1
firewarriors were normal, but i only had 10 of them so i wasn't expectint too muh of them
the riptide was usefull, but at the same time it costed 300 points, i don't think it was enough usefull outisde of distract and laugh as a gundrone takes the lascannon and antitank shots

for the next match i would like to try the missile XV88 and the ghostkeel and ion rifle pathfinders, wich seem pretty good

I would like to note that I'm a 5th edition player and this year we returned to play 40k 5th with a bunch of friends and we haven't seen de OP ripteide of 6th and 7th edition
IMHO tau are more OP than ever 10/10 would show the greater good on a tournament

>>53611436
>53611436
how did you make gun drones deadly being that they hit on a 5+? Drone controller or markerlights?

>>53611977
i can see with some support gun drones being absolute lethal thanks to 4 shots each

>>53612032
how many did you take? In drone teams or what? I ran them yesterday "attached" with units as shield drones but they were just shields for a few mortal wounds.

>>53611977

Not him. But even with old rules, they are statistically more likely to get hits than firewarriors.

I guess what makes them broke is that they cost the same as a firewarrior now, but are dumber (they can only target nearby units) and automatically become their own unit once you deploy them.

>>53612106
Yeah. Not only that, but they're faster, tougher, and can automatically intercept shots meant for other units.

I think they made drones too cheap points-wise, especially with how easy it is to have them function as ablative wounds

>>53611977
normal drone
4 BS+5 shots
add a drone controller for BS+4, and markerlights for BS+3 with rerolls on 1
you can even add a cadre fireblade to give 6shot per drone (he adds 1 shot for pule carabine at half range)
i was bringing 16 gundrones at 1000 points plus 1 pulse accelerator drone
>>53612052
i took them in pairs with all the squads (like fire warriors, commander, fireblade, pathfinders) as i was terrorized by the morale checks that now kill your miniatures
i must say that if you take them in a fast attack big squad they are easier to be near a drone controller bearer to get its bonus
ah, and stealthsuits are perfrect for the drone controller as they dont loose a weapon to take wargear (with XV8 you will use a weapon slot to take the drone controller with i think its a miss)

>>53610923
That's old fluff. Now they got to this point all on their own

>>53612517

I was originally planning to take 3x10 Fire Warriors as troops. Do you think it'd be worth cuttin them down to min size and taking drones?
Could be fun to "attach" a Pulse Accelerator to a Gun unit and brrrrrt from 12" with a Fireblade.

>>53613406
it sure is an interesting option because i was doing the same but with 3 5 manned squads
just mind that the pulse accelerator drone in an individual squad of 1 drone, so it can be targetted (and saviour protocols dont work on other gundrones) so be sure to hide the accelerator drone behind a building so it cant be seen and shot
for 8 points its a bargain and i would take two drones to be sure 1 survives

So a guy from AoS looking to get into 40k and I love me some mechs. What's a good start? And will I be torn apart in melee like a noodle?

>>53615171
Start collecting tau box.Yes you will, but at least now if you survive you can back off combat

how do i Farsight now? as is their only thing is having Farsight himself and not having any ethereals, yeah? no real bonuses for using mech heavy armies or the like? Maybe i should just flood the board with small teams of xv25 hunter-killers...

>>53608254
heavy 2, st8 ap-4 d6 with a roll of six adding an extra mortal wound

yeah i'd say that's pretty good. st8 means you're wounding most things at 3s and a lot of tougher stuff at 4s. and 3+ armor is effectively ignored.

rolling well a single railside can take out most vehicles.

>>53615495
No real differences aside from using Farsight and avoiding the named characters from the main Empire. I don't even think Farsight Enclaves has a strict ban on ethereal, though that may have just been a quirk of their earlier rules.

Outside of that, maybe include more breacher teams, carbine warriors, or other close-range units to take advantage of Way of the Short Blade

>>53611436
>gundrones are so broken they should be banned right away

I hope you didn't forget that they have to target the closest visible enemy unless they're still connected to a vehicle

>>53615171
As other anon said, the SC! box is really the best place to start; fantastic value, especially if you can find a place to get it for 20% off. Once you've got that finished, consider a second SC, as you'll want the extra Crisis and FW for most moderate to large lists. After that;

Mechs:
Commander - Mech HQ
Broadside - Mech heavy support
Riptide - Mech elite
Stealth suit - Mech (?) FA

Pathfinders would probably be a decent idea, given how cheap they are this edition, and how nice Markerlights are.

I got in a 2k points game yesterday vs Necrons. We both were trying to 'break' the game so to speak just to give it a test drive and I've got a couple thoughts on both armies:

Tau:
-3x Burst Cannon + Advanced Targeting System battle suit commander is insane. I took 5 of them + a coldstar and deep struck them in and they just shred units and do solid damage to tanks. They're less than 120 points each and if they get whittled down you can just jump back into your lines and hide with character rules
-Stealth suits are a great way to make your opponent waste their shooting, they're basically terminators with infiltrate
-Tau infantry can get very strong with buffs. 36x fire warriors were benefiting from 3x pulse accelerator drones + darkstrider + cadre fire blade for 24" 3 shot rapid fire.
-The new markerlight table is good. Pathfinders are cheap so it's not a problem to bring a bunch. I may have brought too many (20) because i ended up busting out the pulse carbines later in the game

>>53616620
How specifically was it fighting v necrons? I expect to be in a similar fight soon, and I'm curious about how your fight went.

Pulse Accel drones seem very good.

>>53616620
>-3x Burst Cannon + Advanced Targeting System battle suit commander is insane. I took 5 of them + a coldstar and deep struck them in and they just shred units and do solid damage to tanks. They're less than 120 points each and if they get whittled down you can just jump back into your lines and hide with character rules
I've always loved my hazard suits, and putting ATS on it would be killer. But it's likely each hazard will be about 100pts not including guns, and they will make the ATS cost 16 points for one. I am so excited and also nervous for the fw index xenos book.

>>53616620
cont

-Kroot are the same as ever. The 7" movement at the start of the game helped me push away their similar movement tricks and block a wraith charge.
-Kroot Hounds are super spooky for any shooty army because of how fast they are. They died before they got to do anything because my opponent didn't want their lines getting charged (AKA mission accomplished: took some heat off the fire warriors)
-I have no idea how good longstrike/hammerheads are because quantum shielding kept him from doing his job : /


Necrons:
-1 AP on every gun makes everything feel very dangerous
-Quantum Shielding is the most obnoxious rule in existence
-C'Tan shards hiding behind blobs of necron warriors and threatening your squishy characters with sniper style 'not actually shooting' abilities is also terrifying
-Reanimation Protocols means you should almost never shoot at a unit you cant fully kill. DO NOT get into a long range shootout with them, ghost arc + res orb = 75% of the damage you inflict stands back up each turn

>>53616620
>I may have brought too many (20) because i ended up busting out the pulse carbines later in the game

this is a good problem, i think having enough marker lights to get about 10 hits in the first round is a good amount.

Also some one earlier in the thread was asking what use a multi tracker is, and i realized that if you give it to a commander suit you can really easily make that commander suit the monat that hunts on its own away from marker light support.

anyways
>took out my tau to do an inventory of my infantry.

>14 pathfinders with carbines/marker lights
>9 with rail rifles
>3 with ion rifles.

excellent.

>>53616748
A shame we lost snipers on kroot.

I'm probably going to run my ghostkeel, 2x full breacher squads in devilfish, and maybe a hammerhead.

>>53616820
I have a bunch of kroot with fashioned scopes on their guns.

to be fair i also have one with a chainsword and a couple with double barreled shotguns or dual wielding pistols, they're not really wysiwyg anyways.

Alternate use for Firesight Marksman: Put him in a Drone Port for four BS 3+ gun drones

>>53570731
That poster is so gay. This is one of the reasons I dislike tau, it seems to attack the rampant left.

>>53616927
Firesight marksman's drone controller only works on sniper drones. But the good news is the sniper drones only need to see the firesight marksman to gain its benefit rather than being within so many inches of it.

>>53616735
I really hope hazard suits aren't terrible too, but it's foregeworld. They'll be either overcosted or broken, there usually isn't an in between.

>>53616704
It depends on the style they're playing, we looked over the necron index after the game and found like 3 or 4 different gameplans in there.

My experience was vs a Phanlanx style (tons of warriors and lords with buffs) and I feel like a maximum weight of fire tau list like the one i brought has a good matchup vs that.

Monoliths are absolutely terrifying (in both shooting and durability) and they give necrons the ability to put units in reserves like in 7th. Railguns should be able to handle it though. Wraiths got EVEN BETTER i feel with their extra wound. Nobody likes shooting their high damage guns at a 3+ invul save and the extra wound makes them stronger vs regular fire. Night scythes also give them a lot of flexibility in deployment. The amount of deployment options they get feels almost overwhelming.

>>53616817
The fact that pathfinders ALSO benefit from cadre fireblades, pulse accelerator drones, and darkstrider means i didn't feel too bad when they started gunning down robots

>>53616820
Maby we'll get a Kroot Mercenaries style mini-codex in the future to give it back

>>53616996
Read the rules on the drone port. Drones from drone port get to use the BS of a model on the port.

>>53573096
I loved them in 7th. Theyre by far my favorite unit. It's going to be harder to do a suicide run in a devilfish now that disembark mentioned happens before you move the transport, which is a bad thing.

>>53617030
you can move after disembarking, and can disembark off any point, not just the back.

>>53616997
I also like that path finders are actually kinda speedy with 7" move.

>>53617157
That and there are no longer difficult terrain movement rules, so they are zipping through that delicious ruins cover

>>53617030

They could be used in counter-charges. Keep them behind your lines. Once the chargers get near or successfully wipe out a unit of Firewarriors, you can take your revenge on them with a unit of Breachers.

>>53570010
Enjoy your opponent diverting 2-5 bolter shots per drone to negate those nifty buffs.

>>53616620
>>53616748
Damn, now I'm tempted to go paint my necrons instead of getting my tau finished. That wasn't the idea when coming into this thread.

>>53615582
who cares if you need to shoot the nearest unit, everything dies to pulse carabines
i just made sure to get some markerlights on the nearest unit and solved, dunno, i don't think there's good AT weapons in Tau, because the same way you pay for 1 weapon with ROF1 high strengh, you could also get a bunch of other S5 weapons
maybe if the guard player used artilery like basilisks....
basically i thought that throwing 40 pulse carabine shots to the nearest unit were enough to annihilate whatever was there, be it a leman russ or a chaos space marine squad in cover (ok, the leman russ could take the dammage and survive but i dont think that paying a 170 points distraction leman is worth.....)

with the change to weapons, to me, there isn't something a pulse rifle can't do and a railgun yes i feel the dedicated AT is as good or worse than massed pulse shots, the game just seems more point and click and the weapons are not as specialized as they were before, the only think to teke in account is the range
just my thoughts after 1 battle, maybe i'll see it's different with more battles

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>>53615992
>>53615171
>Pathfinders would probably be a decent idea
Optimised Pathfinder Team is a great deal for newbies

>>53618127
Only if you make it easy for your opponent. Hiding your pulse accelerator drones behind shit or out of range shouldn't be too much trouble unless your opponent wants to start directing some longer range heavy firepower at them, which is probably a plus for you at the end of the day

The -d3 charge one is going to get shot up for sure because they're definitely close enough by the time it's ability comes into play.

>>53618206
yeah pathfinders are just a really neat unit. i'd even be torn with special weapon options. but its hard to ignore marker lights.

>have enough path finders for full groups with special weapons or 4 small groups with two with special weapons or run 5 small groups with 4 of them filled with special weapons and one 6 man marker team.

i really want to try a rail rifle heavy infantry force, with those small units of path finders supported by firewarriors and maybe a couple devilfish especially using drones to protect path finder teams

>>53618329
Yeah. Grav drones don't seem too useful, especially since it only works out to 12" so it has to be towards the front to work anyway. Just not quite reliable enough.

>>53572926
You have same kill potential with 3 burst cannons against marines in open terrain. With +1 to saves from cover the 2xBC+ATS edges out a bit but you can also negate cover with markerlights. ATS costs 8 and BC 10 so you aren't saving that many points with it either. I'd say go for the 3xBC.

commander with 3x cyclic ion and targeting array. yes or no?

So no matter how large the Pathfinder team they can only trade out three carbines? 5 man team or 10 man still only gets 3 heavy rifles? lame :( why not just split them into two teams with 6 rail rifles between them.

also, why take an ion rifle over a rail rifle? S7 will wound tanks slightly, slightly easier but the rail rifle has almost no chance of being saved against and a far better damage profile.

>>53618644
Ion rifle costs 7p, rail rifle 22p. With the -3p from swapping out markerlight the ion rifles are almost free.

>>53618702
oh. damn, i keep getting distracted looking at power points but damn near no one is going to use those, are they?

Still, i am batting around an idea for Pathfinders as tank breakers with all those rail rifles and markerlights then using some Pirahna to hunt infantry...

>>53618488
It should work great.

It's very similar to the burst cannon build i was using except it has higher damage output for a increase in cost. Give it a shot and let us know how it treats you.

>>53618206
I'm planning on picking up that box for two reasons. One, because I have 3 4 man pathfinder teams and I need the extra models for minimum squad purposes, since I want my special weapons separate. Two, because i want to run a full mechanized/tank force now and a Devilfish with a Recon drone feels like it would be very useful

So... I did some melee crisis suit math on >>53584408 (necron warriors vs crisis suits). Suffled around the numbers and 3 crisis suits can tie up 20 boyz with a power claw nob and the expected caualties are roughly 1,5 suits if you have shield generator to tank the PK attacks. That's decent and if you have drones nearby you can just divert the wounds to them instead. Also photon grenades do wonders to those numbers. Maybe the good old XV-8s can double up as absorbing charges to some degree now.

>>53619099
I can't imagine Crisis suits are much better in melee than they were in 7th. They hit less often and are hit more often by dedicated melee in return.

I still feel like a team with flamers and gun drones could be pretty nice as a way to help counter assaults though, if only due to durability and firepower, but I wouldn't expect it to go toe-to-toe with a melee army

>>53619142
Most of the stuff still hits them on 3+. With t5 most s4 units wound on 5+ and s6-9 wounds them "only" with 3+. Extra wound per suit and no instant death means they die less often you can fly away on your turn. Getting charged is still pretty bad but crisis suits can take some punishment now to survive anything short off heavy melee units. Seeing how lot of things got faster you will get charged sooner or later.

>>53619099
I abandoned that thread because the OP was an insufferable bitch who couldnt fathom tau being decent without riptide spam. There was no reasoning with that autist.

>>53619728

pretty sure that was a troll thread

>>53619099
On a similiar note, piranhas might be able to do this too. 6w per model but only 4+ save. Still have FLY to disengage later. Single piranha also has bigger foot print than crisis suit.

Since this edition seems to be all about, "Sure bro, bring an army of whatever you want as your formation." How do i make an army of just HQ units? like... fielding 10 Coldstars and dropping 100 attacks at 70"? has that been approved yet? or more seriously, what the hell Coldstar, flying around with 40" of movement and 10 attacks? Crack is Slanesh's thing, get your own!

>>53619957
Theres a detachment that's 3 HQs mandatory, with optional elite and LoW slots

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>>53619957
The 'Supreme Command Detachment' is the answer to your prayers!

Commanders can take 4 guns right?

Imagine 4 of, well, anything. Like 4 fusions at BS 2+
Can DS as far away as 18'' to unload at a tank with them, no metla rerolls but very likely 4 hits

>>53620215
Yes and they can fire all 4, but it gets hyper expensive depending on the gun. I am considering 2x cyclic ion blasters, 1 shield generator, and ATS

>>53620002
>>53620071
Yes! just for the hilarity of 5 Coldstars crackheading their way around the battlefield this must be done!

>>53620215
The baseline commander is 76 points, while the Coldstar is 90 but comes with twice the shots out of the cannon so its only 4 points ahead of the equivalent commander. but the Coldstar has space for two more support systems whereas the baseline would either get one more weapon or one support system... you cant customize weapon loadout as much but in the end you get almost the same dakka with incredible movement and more support systems at a very close cost... though i am a super noob and none of this may be a valid comparison.

>>53618445
2 burst, 1 flamer

>>53620417

Pricey of course, but oh so delightful if it gets to deliver for just one round of shooting
Maximum of flipping 24 wounds. Not very likely, but double digit wounds is quite possible

>>53620215

You do get the reroll, it is in effect within half range and Fusion blasters are 18", so you still get it AT 9"

>>53623388
DS must be FURTHER than 9", melta is only within half range, which means inside 9". You explicitly cannot DS and use melta in the same turn.

Can I run Crisis Suits as Commanders? Can I run them as Coldlight Suits if I greenstuff some wings onto them?

>>53595074
Which are better for markerlights and nothing else?
Drones or PFs?

>>53624901
Yes, easily

>>53624949
pathfinders are really cheap markerlighting and a better bs when holding still

drones are a little more durable and maneuverable, but need a drone controller to fire effectively

>>53624988
So wait, how does moving affect ballistic skill, since I'll have a drone controller for sure, which one is better?

It is fun to math out things that are awesome, like maximum wounds you can dump.
Top would be fusion keels. Up to 5 fusion shots on something that can infiltrate.

>>53623388
Not if you DS, in which case you might as well keep your distance.

>>53625027

Heavy weapons have a penalty to fire when moving.
Drones can innately ignore that penalty

>>53624949

>>53625027
since they're heavy 1 its -1 on the hit die when they move. marker drones ignore this however.

it really depends on which is better. pathfinders are more easily spammed and also come with a weapon and as such have more flexibility they can also take special weapons and are protected by other drones.

marker drones can be brought with anything and boosted with a drone controller, can act independently and act as ablative wounds for any models they're near, but cannot take advantage of other drones saving them

to be honest they're both solid choices. and i think the best will be a mix of them.

>>53625051
i think its great that either hammerhead variant can max out at 9 damage. its great that tau vehicles retain their ability to one shot most vehicles, just not the heaviest stuff.

>>53625114

Especially a trio with Longstrike.
2+ all around and Longstrike mortals on a 5+ versus monster/vehicles

>>53625114
Speaking of Hammerheads, is there ever any reason to take Burst cannons over gun drones anymore?

It's the same number of shots at the same BS while they're docked, and drones just have added utility

>>53625710
no.

burst cannons should be the cheap choice, but they aren't burst cannons should be default or cheaper than gundrones. its a shame since they look cool and i always wanted a triple burst cannon devilfish.

>>53625710
also smart missile systems if you're not going to be moving or moving max 12" (i.e. hammer heads, skyrays), and gun drones for anything that might advance devilfish so that they can still shoot while advancing.

or just gun drones for the ablative wound, but sms is too good to completely ignore.

>>53625871
Yeah, that was my thought on it. I may just take a pair of Burst cannons on the devilfish anyway and count them as gun drones, since it'll look cooler and it's functionally identical now

>>53625915
Yeah, SMS is an great option, obviously. I was mostly wondering if I was missing something with Burst cannons vs Gun drones. Seems not to be the case though

>>53625959
yeah gun drones have all the same damage output as burst cannons except they have that extra utility of detaching and acting as meatshields. i guess you pay for the privilege of not being a pussy and hiding behind drones.

>>53626071
Hammerhead burst cannons have been a joke for 3 editions now. In 6th and 7th they costed as much as SMS for no benefit and now this. Gotta love GW's playtesting.

>>53626663
they're just probably too lazy to make them cheaper, considering that unless they were the cheaper option they'd have to be free and the other options 20+ points to make them appealing

>>53626986
I think it is because other lots of other units use burst cannons and it is hard to change their cost specifically for hammerheads under these new rules without making a new weapon specifically for the hammerhead.

>>53626663
Lel
At least it makes decisions easier
But anyway vehicle BS makes attached drones much more appealing than before

>>53590548
I don't think so
>"nova reactor meltdown imminent."
>heats gathering around you in cockpit
>"savior protocol activated."
>watch one of your accompanying drone blown up as nova reactor back to stable

>>53590548
on one hand i don't see anything that makes it obviously forbidden, on the other hand, the way riptides are now, why would you bother. at least if you keep it on the riptide and you have stimms you can negate it, while that drone might be more useful for a weapon that does multidamage. and 14 wounds with a 2+ and potentially 3++ you might not even have to worry about shooting as more so than ever ignore the riptide might be the thought processes of opponents

>>53595476
it's going to be the same thing as the <chapter> and <mark> stuff from SM and Chaos

Wow we are almost at the bump limit. Lots of good stuff.

I just watched the frontline gaming twitch big video where they talk about how they feel about all the factions and their tau stuff was very encouraging.

Check it out, its on their twitch channel. i forgot where they talk about the tau, so skip around until you find it.

Am I reading it right when one broadside costs around 183 points without drones?

>>53629938
Yep

>>53629947
how much was it in 7th. I haven't played alot since 5th.

>>53629972
Way less! All suits cost a lot more. Broadsides were underpriced, they're basically moving tanks.

Based on my experience in AOS and my interpretation of the 40k rules I think the Ethereal ability "Sense of Stone" stacks.

So if you have 6 ethereals all using Sense of Stone you can give all units within range 6 chances at a 6+ fnp.

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How the fuck do i counter this shit?

>>53630191

Sunshark Bomber.

>>53630191
Don't know what the things in the centre are, or what most of those units do. Do tell?

>>53618769
>oh. damn, i keep getting distracted looking at power points but damn near no one is going to use those, are they?
They will be great for pick up games and people learning the game

I dont think there will be many tournaments using power level

Missilesides: Still good?

With ATS seems pretty good

8 shots at S7 AP2 D3 and 8 shots at S5 AP1 is great for dealing with elite infantry and can put some damage on quantum shielding necron stuff too

>>53631389
It seems in 8th that more people are going to try footslogging infantry blobs (genestelers, hormagaunts, ork boyz, etc.). I reckon there's definitely a place for high rate of fire weapons if that's the way the meta's going, and the weaker AP values don't matter so much against those sorts of targets.

>>53631430
yeah that's my thinking exactly

Missilesides spamming 16 shots each is good for anti marines, anti termies, and anti gaunts. AP2 is almost never wasted.

It's not the most efficient counter to gaunts (I think crisis suits with 2-3 flamers are the way to go there) but good enough that I never feel like I wasted points bringing it in my list.

Missile spam plus ATS for anti horde