Hour of Devistation Spoilers

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Bolas is 4 ability.
Though, why isn't he [colorless]UBBR?
The double black was his thing for a reason.

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And an interesting black board wipe.

>>53556867
[+1]: Up to one target creature gains double strike until end of turn.
[-2]: Samut, the Tested deals 2 damage divided as you choose among one of two target creatures and/or players.
[-7]: Search your library for up to two creatures and/or planeswalker cards, put them onto the battlefield, then shuffle your library.

>>53556880
[+2]: Target opponent exiles cards from the top of his or her library until he or she exiles a nonland card. Until end of turn, you may cast that card without paying its mana cost.
[+1]: Each opponent exiles two cards from his or her hand.
[-4]: Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh deals 7 damage to target opponent or creature an opponent controls.
[-12]: Exile each nonland permanent your opponents control.

>Hour of Devastation leaks
>Still no Archenemy spoilers

>devistation

>>53556867
>that pose
Are they fucking retarded? She looks like she's never handled a blade in her life. Stand steady or in a way that you can move quickly, she looks like she's holding in a turd.

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>>53556867
The planeswalker art is almost as bad as the creature art.

>>53556899
Yeah that is a pretty cool boardwipe.

>>53556867
Meh.

>>53556880
Now this is something I can get behind. Sure he ain't gonna be a big game changer in the format but I'd love to play him just for the sake of playing him.

historically dividing damage is very powerful
Historically you didnt pay 4 fucking mana for that kind of ability
Historically Sub-Saharan Africans weren't in Egypt
but whats another fuck up from wizards at this point, at least the game is stable.

>>53556880
>Though, why isn't he [colorless]UBBR?
>The double black was his thing for a reason.

That wasn't "his" thing, that was an Alara thing. Look at the other XYYZ Mythics in the block.

>>53556867
>Sarkhan>Xenagos>Arlin>Domri>Kang
And whiners will claim she'll see zero play because of "muh racism", not because she sucks.

>>53556880
that -12 is kind of underwhelming.
Was hoping it would exile their grave too.

lol, not even the cucks at MTGS like Samut.

>>53556880
Is it just me, or does all of this seem stoopid powerful in the most boring way? I guess I don't know what I was expecting, since his other card is also pretty simple, but this new just seems mleh.

>>53556867
Holy shit Samut is terrible

Shits almost Tibalt tier

>>53560902
Planeswalkers are all kinda boring. I think the design space is super cramped when you have to shit out a few of these guys every couple months

>>53560902
Power is always brainless.
Masterful play is putting your opponent in situations he shouldn't be and forcing him to play a game he can't win. This is usually done with subpar cards that somehow fuck people up when played a certain way.
Optimal play, however, is playing strong cards in a predetermined way. The path of least resistance.

>>53556867
The only thing tested is my patience with Wizards' utter inability to write a single interesting character or engaging plot thread for the last dozen years.

>>53561310
What do you mean?

Don't you like the Justice Pals going to a place and killing Dr. Doom and the meanies and freeing the people of his tyranny and vanishing to do it all over again?

Sounds like some entertaining writing that will never get old

>>53556880
I just comprehended that Bolas can dome the opponent for 7

Wew

>>53560285
>Historically you didnt pay 4 fucking mana for that kind of ability
The closest thing is Fiery Justice which is at WGR
Which also was 5 divideable damage on top of pulling shenanigans with Kavu Predator

>>53556867
Is the twist gonna be this is Tibalt in blackface?

>>53561303
It's ironic that blue is the brainless color.

>>53556867

I fucking hate that character and I know nothing about her other than having seen her two cards.

>>53560902
Ugin and Karn are more retarded strong while also faster.

>>53556867
>-2 for shock on a 4 cost multi color walker
is there a walker worse than this?

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>>53560285
>>53561464
The fuck are you two on about?

>>53561606
Exactly. It's a one mana sorcery as the -2 of a 4 mana, 2 color walker whose abilities are only the second color in the ultimate.

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>>53561571
Admittedly it's pretty close

I don't know about the rest of you guys but I'm glad that she's crappy.
If she got a really good card it'd be really lousy to be forced to run her.

They made her shit so she would be cheap for the filthy casual tumblrinas to pick up.

Still endlessly pissed about no Nakht planeswalker though.

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>>53561639
The +1 is also a 1 mana sorcery

What value!

>>53561644
If Tibalt didn't discard at random he would definitely see more play

Who the fuck is Nakht?

>>53561378
I reread Ashes of the Sun, one of the early prerevision novels, recently, to get a taste of that MtG flavor that I haven't been able to get fresh for over a decade. It amazed me how it succeeds at being diverse and female-friendly far more than the nuWalker shit without even making a visible effort to do so. Turns out agenda pushing is no substitute for good writing.

God, what I would give for another low fantasy, region-focused story that centered on nonhuman races and contained no Planeswalkers.

>>53561644
Tibbers at least was an interesting design space at 2CMC

>>53561752
>I don't know about the rest of you guys but I'm glad that she's crappy.
>If she got a really good card it'd be really lousy to be forced to run her.

Agreed.

>>53561885
Samut and Djeru's childhood friend, who died when they were kids because they were exploring outside the city.
Managed to be a more interesting character in the span of half a story than either of the other two did over the course of multiple.

>>53561885
Samut and Djeru's dead bird friend. The one who got fucked by the Dread Wanderer.

So, with this Bolas, will they finally get rid of Marvel for good?

>>53561752
I don't think wotc is that clever.

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>>53556867
Why is she so ugly? I wanted egyptland to bring me delicious brown, not disgusting WE bait. It's like they sat down and had a contest on who could draw the worst.

>>53556867
That better be the planes walker deck version...

>>53562141
It'll be hilarious if it's not, and the planeswalker deck version turns out to be better despite costing 1 more
And Walker Deck Bolas may well just be Nicol Bolas, Planewalker

Samut is terrible, Bolas is only good in EDH and possibly Standard in the future, Bontu's will be a 1-of in certain modern sideboards.

>>53562225
I like the spoiler here.
Also if Samut's planeswalker deck version is better then it would support my theory
>>53561752

>>53562050
Has a point though.

>>53562225
so what are the planeswalker decks for next set?

>>53561945
> centered on nonhuman races

tfw you think someone is making a good post but they just have to ruin it with tg-specific brand of trash at the end.

>>53556880
>Nicol Bolas, God of EDH

>>53561945
>Ashes of the Sun

My kang

>>53562940
>Nicol Bolas, god of nothing
FTFY

>>53556867
HOL

Damn WotC, dropping the fucking ball all over again. So mediocre.

>>53563123
UP

>>53556867

she's black, egyptian AND a planeswalker?

WE WUZ

>>53561531
What, you don't like strong black womyn overloaded with keywords?

>>53562113
Attractive women trigger tumblrinas that this panders to.

>>53556880
Karn and Ugin managed to be more interesting despite having simpler abilities and being colorless and that's sad, still like the fucker though.

>>53563376
>>53562113
WotC must be outsourcing character design to Bioware.

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What if they kill her off in the story.
What if Neheb does it.

>>53563497
gottah get that phat SJW cash.

>>53556899
Is he really crying for his dragon daddy?

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>>53556880
What I find hilarous is the fact that Dark Intimations resulted to be a totally useless card. And to think that people was theorizing that the card would let Bolas to use his ult as soon as he lands...

What a waste of rare card.

>>53563503
Sadly, Neheb is dead. Look at the Story Mode in Magic Duels.

>>53563662
It lets Bolas burn for 14 without needing to use any of his pluses so hey.

>>53556927
thx

>>53563639
They're only crocodile tears.

>>53563634
Andromeda sold worse than ME3.

>>53563825
exactly, people think that if you SJW pander you will get more money but you don't because they don't actually play games they just post online about how oppressive they are.
it's fun to watch companies shoot themselves in the foot with this approach and wizards is full steam ahead on it.

>>53563639
>he
And she's having a fit because she wants to be daddy's favourite and nobody else.
War of the gods incoming.

>>53563927
Bolas is basically nuking the whole plane from what I get so that's kinda pointless isn't it?

>>53564000
I understood conceptually that Nicol Bolas was going to show up and fuck over loads of people, maybe still off Gideon while he's at it, but I'm a little confused as to why he'd nuke ALL of Amonkhet.

>>53564051
Just Bolas things, I guess.

>>53562008
They have to, I think. It's another game-ending bomb that creates a huge tempo swing the second it comes down, often turn 4. The threat of this AND nulamog is gonna be too much.

>>53564000
Well, not necessarily. The gods might think that he's passing his final judgement and are now racing for who can take the spot as his chosen, favourite child among the champions of the trials.
Basically like a bunch of Christian priests fighting each other during the apocalypse in front of Jesus to show them who REALLY deserves being the best of the best followers of his religion.

>>53564051
>>53564081
>Eh, whatever, I'm tired of all this egypt shit. I'm gonna go back to Madara, get my Japan on.

New bolas isn't really good.

>>53563662

I would say the bigger problem is that usually when you get an Planeswalker ultimate off you have such staggering board control as it is so his board wipe feels somewhat unnecessary. However:

>Play Four Dark Intimations during a game
>Cast him just when the time is right
>+2 him
>Steal the person's top deck moment that could have stopped Nicol Bolas before your next turn

That would be delightful.

>>53564000
>>53564051

I think you don't understand. Think about it like a kindergarden. A really shitty kindergarden. Like the one you don't want to be. Such shitty that everything that dies there, becomes a zombie. Now imagine that your God Pharaoh, the ones who protects this kindergarden of the shit outside ala Warhammer 40K tells you that, when he reappears, everyone who has been "worthy" will be brought to a whole new and better life. Of course, people train day and night so they could be deemed worthy, getting them killed themselves at the end of the trials in a way they don't become zombies, to preserve their worthiness until the God Pharaoh arrives ... some day. Because, some day, the God-Pharaoh will return and erase all the shit it has, so it can give a new and perfect existence to those of his subjects who deemed whorty. If you aren't, you will finally die, and become a zombie, part of the filth who is infesting this plane. And you will disappear and never reborn when the God-Pharaoh returns.

While the God-Pharaoh returns, his sons, the Gods, will tutor the mortals to these rites. They are like the teachers who are seeing perfectly the shit is storming that protective barrier. They have seen generations of mortals fighting to be deemed worthy so, when the God-Pharaoh arrives, they want that glory too. And who wouldn't want it more than the GODDESS OF AMBITION? She saw the glory those mortals wants. It must be good. And she wants it to be the first to receive it. And she will do whatever it takes to have it.

Of course, this is all from the point of view of the natives of the plain. I think it isn't necessary to explain this is a planeswalker farm for Nicol Bolas, the sacrifice at the end of the trials is to force the spark out of people and he will return to harvest the planeswalkers created and, in case there is no one, BOOM! Reset the farm.

>>53564051
probably because samut and the jacestice league are going to turn the people of amonkek against bolas.

>>53562940
Nicol Bolas, God of Aetherworks Marvel

>>53564216
>be Nicol Bolas
>spend centuries, if not millennia, farming for Planeswalkers
>forced to hard-reset because some dipshit kids messed with your crop
>find out there actually was a Planeswalker in the last batch
>it's a rebel
>it's the leader of the rebels
>it's the leader of the rebels that didn't even pass all trials
>it's the leader of the rebels that didn't even pass all trials and is the least attractive woman on the entire plane, counting all beast-people

Shit, I'd be pissed as fuck too.

>>53556880
I actually really like Bolaswalkers as 'just fuck their shit up senpai' cards. They don't need some cohesive theme, as long as he ruins someone's day.

>>53564116
Good. I'm tired of walkers in the meta. They should be niche cards meant for EDH.

>>53556880
So how do we know this isn't the structure deck bolas?

>>53564435
>structure deck
back to yu gay oh

>>53564396
>implying he won't go straight into Marvel decks as another alternate wincon and Lost Legacy counter

>>53564051
as >>53564277 said, it's a salted earth/denial scenario

>>53556867

Would it have really killed them to make her -2 a -1? I mean, geez, it would still suck, just not as much.

>>53564396
This senpai. Walkers are cancer.

This entire plot of "waltz into a plane and throw their entire way of life over like we know what's good for them" really just makes the Gatewatch look like the bad guys here.

>>53564216
You totally lost me with the kindergarten bit, but you got me understanding after that. That does make more sense. I guess the missing piece here is what caused the shift from all those loyal zombies bowing to her to them trying to fuck her up while she wrecks them.

>>53564343
Poor Honored Crop-Captain
>perfect not-Egypt waifu
>ends up on booster pack art
>looks iconic as all hell
>a fucking uncommon
>Boros, at that

You're right, Bolas. Nuke it all from orbit and try again elsewhere.

>>53564569

Maybe they'll be bitchslapped by Bolas so hard they scatter to the winds, and Ajani ends up on Ixalan looking for one of them, runs into Vraska?

>>53564616
I know that Vraska's totally going to be the villain in Ixalan, but part of me just wants her and Ajani to be friends. One's a victim of police brutality, the other is a giant cat with survivors guilt.
Together, they fight crime.

>>53564616
Ajani, Elspeth, Venser, or Koth could carry a Gatewatch tier plot by themselves.

Would run a lot better too instead of today's fair of 1 out 5 retards getting 80% of the plot while the rest of the band of merry men run around breaking shit and gawking at the weird culture.

>>53564616
I'm still betting it's Nisaa who dies.
By far the most hated of the 5 and she just got a shift into two colors, that's usually always the sign that they are off the team.

>>53564837
I'm hoping for Chandra. She's been so fucking annoying since Kaladesh and has had the same, empty character with the same reaction to everything ever since her introduction.

>>53564837
I don't think I could bite that bullet if it means Samut takes her place

>>53564869
thank you,she is the worst imo of the gatewatch please kill her bolas please

>>53564869
She's a worse Jaya Balard and Jaya isn't exactly a character with a long shelf life.

>>53564869
I just want an enchantment called "Chandra's Anger Issues" before Chandra gets killed off.

>>53564869

I don't, I hope both Chandra and Gideon survive, because I'm a filthy Boros Shipper. Sometimes I like the idea of Chandra being the filling in a Naya sandwich.

>>53565013
that would at least make sense if she had the hots for Garruk instead of Viney Mcfeels

>>53565030

What? Does Gideon fucking Chandra's pussy while Nissa uses her Futa dick to fuck Chandra's ass, while Jace sighs wistfully before Liliana smacks him to get him back to eating her out not get you going?

>>53564882
>Samut tries to tag along the Jacetice League
>They disband instead.
I would kek my love handles off.

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>>53565144
When you were a kid, did you dream of being an astronaut or a fireman or a doctor or a businessman or a rock star or a movie star or, you know, someone important. Someone who'd go out and do great things. You'd fall in love and it'd be amazing. Or maybe you'd invent something really neat or draw the best comic or write the best book.

And now you're here.

What happened, anon?

>>53556880
I was thinking about this earlier, if you can get him out as fast as Karn, he might be just as strong. His plus exiles more cards, and his minus kills things just as dead (usually). Of course, since he's not colourless you can't run him in Tron.

then someone reminded me of Aetherworks Marvel holy shit what were they thinking

>>53565253

Bitch who took my virginity 8 years ago fucked majorly with my heart and head, broke up with me over fucking WoW of all places, citing distance as the reason despite flying out to California the next week to fuck another guildy, causing my clinica depression to get the best of me and leading me to drop out of college and move back in with my parents. Now I wait for the day I get hit by a car and die so my parents can pay off my student loans.

That's what happened.

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>>53565367
Well, that'd do it then.

>>53565144
>futa dick
>Not vines or eldrazi tentacles
We all know Nissa's growing connection to Emrakul
>>53565253
I just wanted to be a scientist and I'm on the path of being one.

>>53565253
>dreaming of being something as a kid
you didnt grow up poor did you?

>>53565367
That's dark. I'd just let your loans default.

>all those people rooting for Bolas
Furries in force today.

>>53565253
I wanted to be a luchador but then realized I'm not mexican.

>>53562113
so all the 3d figures aren't allowed...
plenty of holes in that fortress

>>53565547
People would root for Satan when the alternative is seeing the Jacestice League win again.

>>53565625
Eh, just go on Lucha Underground. At the very least you can be someone like Son of Havoc.

>>53565546
Student loans don't default as far as I'm aware.
It's one of the very few kinds of debt you can't avoid paying because Sally Mae will have his sheckels one way or another.

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>>53565538
>you didnt grow up poor did you?
Nope. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5hlil50vi4

>>53565546
US student loans are non-dischargeable in bankruptcy. It's diabolical.

>>53565502
>I just wanted to be a scientist and I'm on the path of being one.

Are you the kind of scientist who's working on science, or the kind of scientist who wants to bring their fetishes to life and has only one way to do it.

>>53565546

You can't default on student loans in the USA. And I can't leave my parents with that debt that they cosigned thinking I'd make something out of myself.

>>53565663
>scientist who's working on science, or the kind of scientist who wants to bring their fetishes to life
Izzet, not simic

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>>53565547
>Bolas
>a dragon
>with scales
>furries

anon please

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>>53565663
>Izzet, not simic

Still doesn't answer the question.

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>>53565691
>Izzet
>calling that science
You guys just blow shit up all day and glue things together in ways 40k's Orks would be proud of, you freaking pschopaths.
You also have the inferior waifus.

>>53565367

>caring THIS much about one fucking girl
>not realizing your first fuck is literally just to teach you how to fuck
>getting emotionally attached, like a woman
>not being able to let shit go 8 years later

Truly, you are fucking pathetic. Loads of people have depression and 8/10 times the girl we lose our virignity to is a stone cold bitch. Just move on man. if you can get laid once you could have got laid again, there are actual robots out there, get it together man

>>53565711
>>53565758
Aspiring physicist

>>53565994
Make physics your bitch. Literally.

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>>53565758

Best guild waifus coming through.

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>>53566030
damn straight

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>>53566030
>not the girls with the literal job of growing things and populating the plane with fertility

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>>53566046
Motherfucker she's from Alara.

THIS is the Gruul waifu you were trying to post.

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>>53566006

>>53565916

Man, it ain't about that girl specifically. Like I said, she fucked with my head, fucked with my heart, and it's not like I didn't have issues before hand. Plus, you aren't rational when you're depressed, really depressed, where you have to take pills just to feel a semblance of normal. And I literally can't afford to get the mental help I need because I can barely keep my head above water.

Shit sucks man.

>>53556867
Isn't -7 great with Doubling Seasons? She can search for a copy of herself and another PW, then repeat the process until you run out of Samut.

But yeah, what a shitty planeswalker.

>>53564837
It's likely nobody's going to die, honestly. Defeated, more than likely, die, highly unlikely.
Also Nissa's just now getting character development, which they wouldn't do if she were to die immediately after.
Gideon's got some stuff foreshadowed about Theros.
Jace needs to be alive for Ravnica, the most popular plane, to function correctly.
Liliana has her demons and the chain veil going on.
...which makes Chandra the most expendable member of the current five. At best she MIGHT have some shit she can do in Tarkir involving Ghostfire, but that's not necessary for Tarkir stuff.

>>53566360
Even tibalt is good with Doubling Seasons.

>>53566360
her -7 is a better version of tooth and nail. Powerlevel-wise shes powercreep as fuck and cancer.

>>53566471
Not really, because that's a TnN that requires building and protecting a permanent that's doing nothing but casting fucking Assault Strobe every turn for three turns just to get that TnN that's slightly better AND your opponent knows is coming.
More if they manage to do even a single point of damage to it.
Lots of things combo with Doubling Season in stupid ways so bringing Doubling Season up doesn't matter there.
Card is shit because the only thing worth a damn is the ability you won't be using most of the time.

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>>53564343
>be Bolas
>be angry exactly as described
>still take Samut because a spark is a spark
>mindcontrol.jpg
>first thing bleach her skin into a nice grey artifact-frame colour
>then grate her facial features into something geometrically passable like a Myr Enforcer

>After this double plastic surgery, graduate her into Samut, Agent of Bolas and give her some + and - abilities that don't suck.

MFW

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>>53566556
Excuse me. She's a Blood Mist, a shitty uncommon enchantment with the same CMC and does exactly what you'll be doing if you're building up her ultimate.
Nobody runs Blood Mist because Blood Mist is complete dogshit.
Nobody is going to run a Blood Mist that needs to be protected for three turns AND costs 2RG instead of 3R

>>53564216
Thanks for the explanation. There better be at least 1 new planeswalker card for a planeswalker that he farmed.

>>53566187

dude, it's not like when a woman fucks with you its easy to ignore. it can fuck with your self esteem, confidence, etc, for a while for sure. I DO understand, I've dated many more girls than you and hotter and ones that are amazing, and have been sad at breakups or upset when they cheated on me or some bs happened and we broke up.


Its normal to be heartbroken and down in the dumps. But sitting in your room and playing MTG is fucking pathetic dude. Also, I have legit diagnosed depression, tried like 4 different antidepreseent regemens over 2 years and all of them made me feel numb or like shit. and I dont take meds now cause its awful i just exercise a little bit and smoke weed.

Mental health is a meme, shrinks are awful. Stop making excuses for yourself. Everyone has breakups, many people have depression. There are countless resources out there, I'll be your friend, just get gud little better at life man

mtg is legit harder than life GET GUD FAGGOT

>>53564804
Venser is dead.

Elspeth couldn't carry the plot of Theros on her own, a story that was supposed to be all about the lone legendary hero overcoming trials and shit. She needed a furry's massive barbed cat dong inside her helping her with heroing, and she was still the least interesting part of the story.

I'd love to see Koth show up in Jace's sanctum on Ravnica and be all like, "WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU CRACKA-ASS BITCHES DOING FUCKIN AROUND ON KALADESH AND AMONKHET AND SHIT, DIDN'T YOU KNOW MIRRODIN GOT FUCKIN BLASTED BY PHYREXIAN HONKIES AND THEY'RE GONNA SPREAD LIKE YO MAMMA'S legs AS SOON AS THEY GET THEIR HAND ON SOME OF DAT PORTAL TECH? WHY DON'T YOU BRING ONE OF THEM PLANE-WIDE FIREBALLS LIKE YOU USED ON ZENDIKAR AND GET THESE MOTHAFUCKIN PHYREXIANS OFFA MY MOTHAFUCKIN PLANE???" Or, you know, however he would put it.

Ajani is rad but he needs someone to interact with. Could be anyone, just someone to talk to so he's not just brooding. I don't know why but I thought the flashback scene on Kamigawa with Tamiyo was fuckin rad.

>>53566556
Its not ok to put a better tooth and nail on a card because its other two uses are assault strobe and twinbolt.

>>53566626
Dude I love Blood Mist! In Eldritch Moon Limited.

>>53566745
The return of Koth has such potential.

Elspeth always seemed to me to be a character that kept being underutilized, at least in that they designed her to be ultimately tragic. I agree that she can't carry a plot with herself though, but I wish they would give her some kind of character development to help with the whole survivors guilt/martyr complex thing she's got.

Ajani is still the best walker of the bunch, not only because he's had a good arc and still currently has an interesting character, but the fact that he's met a surprising amount of the other walkers. Ajani honestly seems like the kind of character you could write just going around the planes running into people, and it'd be interesting.

>>53566746
And Tibalt is a 2 mana Insurrection. Technically.
He's still a pile of shit and ass.
Yes, just the effect by itself is a better TnN. Ultimates rarely go off, though, and sitting there through three turns of Blood Mist to get that does not actually make her a better TnN. And using the overpriced twinbolt option means you are never GETTING the TnN.
She is not powercreep nor will she be cancerous. She will be a dollar mythic.

>>53566568
Hour of devastation

Sorcery

All creatures lose indestructible until end of turn. Destroy all creatures.

so it's Damnation more or less, minus the "can't be regenerated" and plus getting around indestructible

>>53566918
Wasn't this card also confirmed for being a fake too? Also there's no way they'd give black two board wipes in one set seeing as there's already >>53556899

>>53566918
it's fake though

>>53556880
The +1 is fucking brutal but I'd rather have the old one in most cases.

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Is it ever explained what this is? i haven't read the stories yet.

>>53566840
>kind of character you could write just going around the planes running into people, and it'd be interesting.
IF ONLY WE HAD A CENTRAL CAST OF RECURRING PLANESWALKERS WHO WENT AROUND RUNNING INTO PEOPLE

LIKE A NEWLY SPARKED REBEL

A DICKHOLE ARTIFICER

A VEDALKIN WITH A STICK SO FAR UP HIS ASS YOU CAN SEE IT THROUGH HIS MOUTH

HIS FRIEND, A RACIST, COUNTERSPELL-SPAMMING POLICE OFFICER

A JAPANESE NERD RABBIT

A DEMON WARLORD

I actually forgot what point I was trying to make, I guess the Gatewatch are doing exactly what you suggested but people don't like it.

>>53567004
It's a giant demon, that's it.
When Djeru and Samut were kids they had an avian friend but they went outside the hekma and found shit about Bolas being an intruder it ate their avian friend.
Djeru took this as a sign of "Don't go against the rules" and Samut took this as "The rules are bad".

>>53567027
>about Bolas being an intruder it ate their avian friend.
about Bolas being an intruder and then it ate their avian friend*

>>53566360
>isn't [planeswalker] great with doubling season??????

Yes, literally almost every planeswalker printed and will print will be good with doubling seaons

Fuck off

>>53567027
But it's clearly a horror and not a demon anon

it says so on the card

>>53567004
It showed up in a story as a huge-ass monster seen in the distance when Samut and her friends went outside the city. Then iirc it comes closer and muderates Samut's bird friend, amidst a hoard of zombies. They don't really explain what it is aside from being "a monster, from outside."

People have pointed out that its head looks kinda like the gods, and the story flat-out told us that there used to be eight gods but three are implied to have been destroyed and the other five radically changed. This could maybe the zombie corpse of a dead god? But it seems like an undead god would be a way bigger deal than a nonlegendary uncommon semi-fatty.

>>53567021
When will the market researchers at WotC finally realize that most people don't like the Gatewatch and off them?

>>53567071
2019.

>>53567071
They realized that back during Kaladesh or around then, but because of how shit works they can only move so quickly.
So expect it to stop being shit around late 2018/2019

>>53567021
The problem with the gatewatch when it comes to that is that there are just too many of them. When a block only has a particular plot for one or two members, the rest just kind of fuck off and do nothing. I'd rather we have one or two people as the focal point, and follow them around the multiverse with more of a focus on the plane and the people on it rather than whatever plot the jacetice league stumbles into this week.

I guess basically what I want is for the block's story to not use the walkers as the central character all of the time, and have them come in as side characters and party members while the real meat the plot is dealing with on plane stuff and on plane legendaries.

>>53567039
And this is why Doubling Season doesn't get printed anymore.

>>53563639
Hazoret and bontu are female... Ffs read the lore you uncultured swine

>>53567112
One of the problems I have with the new Gatewatch and block set up is that with 2 sets it feels the adventures are too short and pointless

>Horrible fucking unstoppable monsters are on Zendikar and destroying everything an-
>oh wait we just threw fire and they fell down Lets leave

>Wow the biggest Eldrazi ever is warping Innistrad
>lel we just tossed her in a moon and made a bunch of zombies....uh mission complete? lets leave

>Chandra and Nissa have their lesbian honeymoon in robot town. Robot town seems pretty nice
>Just kidding the government was evil! But we already took care of them and rebellion or something lets leave.

Also 2 sets doesn't feel like enough time to fully explore a sets mechanics. Like I loved delirium and we got 2 sets and a handful of cards for it and likely won't see the mechanic again for years.

>>53563927
By the sound of it too, bontu is the last to die if they do, judging by the whole "to the last" thing... Interested to see the gods possibly die, hope not but is different.

>>53567170
Don't forget we got three (3) entire cards for meld as a mechanic.

Also I thought the story of EDM was really good, at least the end.

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>>53567173
> Hazorat dies
FUCK
Hot pervert momma was best character out of all the gods, I can't describe how mad I'd be.

>>53567170
My thoughts exactly. I can see why they went for the two block set (Born of the Gods was a real wake up call) but what it helps with mechanical design, it eviscerates with story and pacing. Hell, the only reason why the Lorwyn/Shadowmoor 2 blocks worked was because they were connected. There's no pacing when there's not that middle set to build up the drama.

I mean, for all the bullshit that was dark ascension, at least it managed to sufficiently build up an overwhelming sense of "shit's fucked".

>>53566947
>>53566941
dang

yeah i guess something like that would be too much to hope for these days

>>53567194
EDM's story was good, but the finale felt really unfinished, especially for how fast it went.

That said, It's definitely been the best of the past few sets. SOI was fantastic and in my opinion how the plot should actually use planeswalkers-relatively solitary characters who explore planes and make plots happen, but not as a group unless shit gets super real.

>>53567071
>most people
It's only recently that the people displeased with the GW bacame anywhere near vocal enough and numerous enough outside of 4chan to be heard by WOTC. Since R&D works two years ahead minimum, we have at least two more years of this til things change. Maybe we'll get lucky and Ixilan will be a side mission that doesn't take the whole Gatewatch and we'll only have Ajani plus whichever new PW protagonist he recruits to help him. Maybe.

But the GW as a concept isn't going away for a while unless they specifically planned for Bolas to fuck their shit up so hard in HoD that they have to break up temporarily. I could see that as a possibility - come back stronger and whatnot. We can only hope.

>>53567248
>but the finale felt really unfinished, especially for how fast it went.
Eh, they had people gather up in town and then resist against Emmy.
They also managed to surprise everyone and give an ending/explanation as to why emmy lost that wasn't complete and total horse crap like BFZ block

>>53567282
>all powerful creature
"ehhhh they aren't ready, I'll let myself get locked up."
guess its better than "LOL TEAMWORK KILLS ELDRICH ABOMINATIONS."

I still think the eldrazi are part of the greater multiverse ecosystem and eat dead planes and killing them was a fucking stupid move

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>>53556880
Worth it?
Not even close.

>>53567304
I hope Nissa's halucinations during the trial of knowledge go somewhere.
Namely her getting a character that isn't shit or dying.

>>53567313
>people ACTUALLY thought this was gonna let you ultimate right away or some dumb shit

>>53567313
While not game-ending, 14 to the face isn't exactly something to laugh at.

>>53567330
i miss old Nissa when she was an elven supremacist

>>53567146
Here's an idea, how about we use "God" and "Goddess" in the names of the cards? It doesn't have to be in the type line (that would be confusing, since it would be two subtypes, but we could have just used Deity or something else gender-neutral... too late now I guess) but they could at least put the correctly gendered pronoun in the name of the fucking card. English has words that can be used to fix this problem, fucking use them!

Or better yet, if you're going to use one word to refer to them all, how about making them genderless? They're supposed to be gods, right? Shouldn't they be special, different, more of a ideal than a physical being? Do gods have any reason at all to have a gender? They certainly don't reproduce sexually. These aren't the greek gods who go around fucking and impregnating mortal bitches left and right - hell these aren't even the original fucking gods of this plane! They're the mutilated leftovers that Bolas left behind after he did whatever fucked up Slannesh bullshit he did to the plane when he came the first time.

>>53567332
Instead, it lets you ultimate the turn after you play him (assuming you dumped all four in the yard), either giving you a free spell of your opponent's and a live Bolas (assuming no interference) or disruption of their hand and no bolas.
And either way he's on Not Gonna Die counters.

>>53567346
14 to the face can close out games in standard. still you need to GET to that much mana and that only fesablie with aetherworks marvel and that isn't going to run dark intimations

>>53567282
My biggest gripe with it really was that the plot kind of stopped paying attention to everyone except the gatewatch when we finally got to EDM. For all of SOI's fantastic buildup on the stories of Thalia and Odric, or Sorin's war, they got barely a single story apiece that cleared them up. That's not to say the remaining plot was bad. I actually like a lot of it, especially the "Last Hope" reveal and the sealing of Emmy.

Also the fact that they didn't really resolve what happened afterwords bugs the hell out of me. Like, the Gatewatch saved the day and sealed away Emmy and left, but there's still and entire plane filled with horrifying mutants fighting under-equipped townsfolk. The Dronepack is still a thing, the Falkenraths are still a thing, and even with the Order of Saint Traft, the future of Innistrad looking like it's heading towards a Time Spiral kind of situation, where everything is turbofucked.

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>>53556867
>Jackal
Just a quick thing: Magic actually had a Jackal type before. You can see this in Trained Jackal and Hurr Jackal. So I can kinda give them a pass on making it a type again when it perfectly fits what they're using it for. But yeah, Naga always confused me. Especially when rakshasa are just Cat Demons instead of, well, Rakshasa. But as for types, I'm still personally holding out hope for the return of the Dinosaur subtype

>>53567373
They ARE the original gods, just mind controlled.
And they did the same 'call everything a god despite gender' thing in Theros.
I assume you called Nylea and Thassa he as well, yes? Ephara, Karametra, and Pharika as well?
The Amonkhet ones don't even have 'God of X' in their card titles like those five did.

>>53567373
>hell these aren't even the original fucking gods of this plane!
They are though, just brainwashed and down 3 people.

>>53567432
did the other three die or could we see some multicolor gods?

>>53556880
>7 damage to target opponent or a creature an opponent controls.

Is it worded this way to prevent in-response meddling that would otherwise cause you to kill an allied player or your own creature?

>>53567466
She was looking up into space, into the stars. Eight stars. Eight stars in a loose circle and evenly spaced, lighting up the entire night sky.

A line of darkness, somehow visible even against the night, a line that shone darkness, wove its way through the eight stars. The line twisted and turned and vibrated, its pulsing a violent cry. When the line ceased moving, it was a figure eight on its side, a snake eating its own tail. It encompassed all eight stars, each star twinkling desperately against the curtain of dark now nestled close against them.

Three of the stars winked out. Their generation of light and heat snuffed. Their lives vanished.

But Nissa could still see movement where those three stars had been. Stars no more, just three dark rents in the fabric of the sky. Three dark holes, possessed of an energy and fury all their own, pulsing to a rhythm malevolent.

The five remaining stars moved, their new alignment warped, all bending to the shadowy line woven through their constellation. Their new outline suggested a pair of horns.

>>53567406
Muraganda soon, anon
http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Feeding+Grounds
> tfw no Mimeoplasm reprint since 3 color commander

>>53567396
SOI is when I just gave up on Magic's story. BFZ was bad, but SOI pissed me off so hard. Making it so that Sorin sealed Nahiri in the Helvault this whole time makes no fucking sense and contradicts so much of the story that came before it, it instantly became clear to me that Wizards didn't give a fuck about telling a good story anymore.

>Eldrazi titans are back and that bitch Nissa set them free. Shit, time to chill in Innistrad for a bit.
>Wow, everything's pretty fucked up. Oh, look at that, the Helvault was destroyed, releasing everything that was inside it. Well, time to seal the titans. Just gotta find Nahiri and Ugin.
>Huh, Nahiri isn't answering my calls. I hope Ugin didn't waste her. I should probably ask him to make sure.
>Oh, hey Ugin. You want me to find Nahiri? Yeah, I knew where she was this whole time. In the Helvault.
WHAT?!

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>>53567416
The trend started in Theros and I guess it makes sense to continue the trend. I remember reading somewhere that they wanted all the Theros gods to be named, "Name, God of Thing" so they'd match. Having half of them be "Name, Goddess of Thing" would mean half didn't match, I guess. Technically. I don't think anyone would give a shit.

Karametra wouldn't quite fit on the name line if it said "Goddess" instead of "God," but that's a non-issue. They fiddle with names to make them fit all the time. Tek is a classic example - they needed a really short name because it hasd to be referenced in the rules text and anything longer than about 3 letters wouldn't fit without forcing it into too small a font size. They could have named Karametra something shorter.

>>53567590
They basically decided that since it was going to be used in the typeline anyways, the word God may as well be gender neutral as far as they're concerned.

>>53567561
Yeah, that was quite an asspull. Frankly I assumed that someone on a different part of the writing staff had set up the SOI stuff surrounding Nahiri and by the time they managed to take a look at it and realize their mistake, they had already finished most of the work for the set.

To be fair though, I'm pretty sure the Tarkir story didn't mention Nahiri, since I think it was still before they gave her a proper name. She was just "the lithomancer".

>>53567519
Arguements against
>mark rose water said nobody wants muraganda because people dont like instant/sorceries that make creatures. Also vanilla creatures are confusing because nobody knows what vanilla means 8/10 times
Arguements for
>seth made a video where he goes against the odds with a token petroglyph deck and it looked fun

>>53567655
...Maro, what the hell.

>>53567655
>>53567655
>mark rose water said nobody wants muraganda because people dont like instant/sorceries that make creatures. Also vanilla creatures are confusing because nobody knows what vanilla means 8/10 times
> guy said X, because people don't like a thing.
> thing in a setting that hasn't been done
> where only 2-3 cards even directly reference the plane
What? What sort of ass-backwards argument is that? I don't even understand what he means, the hell's stopping them just making it a setting with new card mechanics?

Is this what it means to know you can do someone's job better than they can?

>>53567632
Still, I just... like, Wizards makes their sets five years in advance. Yes it seems like they can't keep their own damn stories straight for five months. Look at Origins, look at how they retconned the shit out of pretty much everyone.

Fucking hell, it really is like the Jacetice League is WotC's attempt at making the Magic story more like a superhero story, for god only knows what reason. But the worst part is it's a shit superhero story, all the worst parts mashed together. And even then, it's just not appropriate for what Magic's done. The planes are the interesting parts of Magic lore, not these stupid X-Men rejects.

>>53567655
Sauce? Considering how often I see people misrepresent Maro, I can't trust anything people say about him without a source now. I'm not the guy's biggest fan, but if you have to lie about the guy, it just undermines your own position.

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>>53566030
Close but I have the winner.

>>53567668
You didnt see the arguement retards from tumblr were trying to make as evidence that proves that vanilla creatures can have rules text on them. It was embarassing a to read and I felt bad for maro, which is rare.

>>53567655
He's also said that they're likely GOING to do Muraganda at some point because people DO like the idea of Muraganda.
It just won't be The Vanilla Matters Block, because it's a shitty theme and won't carry a block, not even a 2-set, and there's little you really can do with it.
It might have a few cards as a small subtheme, but it won't be a major focus of the block.

>>53567709
>"Come on Wizards, stop treating us all like idiots."
>Cue huge number of Magic players acting like idiots.
Every time. Say what you will about the man, but I think he's dead-on with NWO. People are dumb as fuck when it comes to Magic.

I want to return to Kamigawa

>>53567727
>It just won't be The Vanilla Matters Block, because it's a shitty theme and won't carry a block, not even a 2-set, and there's little you really can do with it.
I've seen someone try it in /ccg/. It basically amounted to granting properties to cards instead of actual keywords or rules text. Like, instead of saying
>Target creature gains hexproof until end of turn.
he would make a card that said
>Target creature can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control until end of turn.
Since technically the latter is distinct from Hexproof (Shielding Plax) and doesn't actually add rules text to the card, just a property to it.

I don't think he ever finished that set though. But it was quite a long time ago, I could be wrong.

>>53567747
You think you do, but you don't. Market research says players hate Kamigawa.

t. Kike

>>53567783
Market research is dumb as hell then.

I'm at least happy they're keeping it in mind though what with Kaseto and the O-Kagachi. Pity the O-Kagachi is kind of garbage.

>>53567783
How many survey's have you made to see how much interest there is for Kamigawa?

Not to say you can't be right, but it's really easy for a minority to think they have a majority opinion if they keep echoing each other. Tumblr falls for that trap all the time.

>>53567739
The amount of people who don't know the basic rules of the game is amazing. Not even considering weirder stuff, just the basic rules.
Here, there, everywhere. My nine year old niece is better at magic than a good chunk of the people on /tg/ and I wish I was joking.
I can't wait for the next spoiler season, the stupid that comes up is amazing, especially the past few sets.

>>53567803
honestly, zero. I have no seen a single shred of evidence that MaRo isn't pulling those statistics out of his bleached asshole.

>>53567819
And you have no evidence that he isn't. Are you going to continue to believe something you can't prove?

>>53567803
Kamigawa (especially among competitive players) is one of the least fondly remembered blocks in Modern. That's mostly because of the confusing rules, bad draft design, mediocre flavor, and shit insta-win cards in limited (Umezawa's Jitte).

>>53567808
this. People are insanely stupid when it comes to rules.

>doesn't lifelink stack?

Uh, not for like 10 years or something. This was a level zero judge saying this by the way.

>>53567696
Jace, Chandra, Lillykins and I think even Gids flat-out didn't have backstories. They just showed up one day and started doing stuff, and a bunch of things were implied or assumed without fleshing out. Nissa was a full-blown retcon but they openly admit, "Yes. We retconned this character. We didn't like the old Nissa. We changed her." And that's clumsy and dumb and stupid and bad writing and all kinds of pants-on-head, plus some other adjectives I can probably come up with if I keep typing, but it seems to have been an isolated incident. Frankly I can't blame them - it's a little hard to have a likeable protagonist whose main trait is, "is a racist." Especially with humans being he dominate species on the multiverse as well as the ones most likely to show up in stories apparently. (That's a separate goddamn argument) Racist Nissa was clearly Green/Black and we already have a green/black planeswalker villain. Two, if Vraska becomes a thing.

>>53567834
*that he is.
I'm tired.

>>53567655
The Vanilla Matters thing is a lot more complicated then you're making it out to be:
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/160083633698/in-regards-to-muraganda-and-a-vanilla-creature

Also, taking the issues with Vanilla stuff aside:
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/160136236043/muraganda-doesnt-have-to-be-vanilla-matters

He even says they may just find a different theme for Muraganda. I know it might eat up time you would have spent on your anti-MaRo circlejerk, but you could spend 5 minutes reading every so often.

>>53567834
Burden of proof isn't on me, it's on him.

>>53567778
That's retarded.

>>53567841
>Jace, Chandra, Lillykins and I think even Gids flat-out didn't have backstories.
Boy-howdy are you wrong.
http://mtg.gamepedia.com/A_Planeswalker_Novel

>>53567778
And they can't do that with a bunch of things (like haste, hexproof, lifelink, menace, etc) because there are cards that are worded exactly like that but now grant those abilities via errata.
And even disregarding that, it's a shitton of effort just to force the Vanilla Matters theme and make people play with cards that are honestly boring, and all because of one card in Future Sight.

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>>53567783
Please?
It's my favorite set no matter how poorly it's aged

>>53567886
>>53567906
It wasn't my idea, and I didn't say it was a good one.

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>>53567906
That one card in Future Sight isn't even the only Muraganda card we have.
>Imperiosaur
>The Mimeoplasm
>Muraganda Petroglyphs
>(Technically)Feeding Grounds

Imperiosaur and The Mimeoplasm don't even work with Petroglyphs (unless Mimeo uses a Vanilla creature as its face card), so Petroglyphs is outnumbered to start with. Feeding Grounds only cares about R/G spells and CMC.

>>53567808
>especially the past few sets.
What cards in particular have you noticed that cause confusion? I'm going to go out on a limb that some of the confusion comes from energy counters.

>>53567840
The stories I've heard about people not knowing how Deathtouch combos with Trample, including even judges, are astounding.

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The absolute most disappointing thing about Samut is that it's ANOTHER R/G walker. We had Arlin in Shadows. We had Xenagos in Theros. We had Domri in Gatecrash. We had one color off Temur Sarkhan in Dragons. Give us some fucking different color combinations.

>>53567783
I don't really trust "market research" that isn't published. Seems fishy as hell, like when CNN published that report that said they weren't corrupt. Nor do I trust WOTC to be apt at anything, after they hired that black gamer girl that had a blog to consult them as to how black women act, as to better design a card that no one uses.

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>>53567840
According to MaRo, Kamigawa was designed by doing all the flavor first and then trying to make mechanics to suit that flavor. Turns out, you can bend flavor to suit basically any mechanic, even weird new shit. Mechanics, on the other hand, are actually really inflexible and you end up with janky shit like how Epic worked instead of something streamlined and reusable.

The flavor was based on actual mythology - Shintoism I think? Except nobody knows or cares about that outside of some hardcore Samurai nerds. People were expecting Anime and Kung Fu and shit. They didn't get what they wanted and what the got instead, they didn't even understand. Can anybody tell me what the fuck a Myojin is, or for that matter how to pronounce it?

The mechanical theme of the block turned out to be a miss too. Every rare in the set was Legendary, but you only open one rare per pack. How many packs do you even have to open before you even pick up on it? How many legends can you put into a deck before you start having issues with dead draws? There's not much you can really DO with legends anyway, aside from making it not matter (Mirror Gallery; Brothers Yamazaki) or just treating it like a tribe. The Grandeur mechanic from Future Sight would have been cool but it hadn't been invented yet. Tis a shame.

Kamigawa had some solid material. Bushido would be a great mechanic if its flavor wasn't tied to a creature type that doesn't show up in most worlds. MaRo says it'll probably come back under a different name. There's been at least one card before Kamigawa that had the exact same ability but without the name - Chub Toad. And don't forget, Kamigawa gave us the Moonfolk, one of Magic's few original fantasy races. You don't have to be a furry to appreciate the big floppy eared bunny people. Tamiyo is the best thing to come out of Kamigawa. But overall yeah there were just too many problems for a return trip to be worth it.

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>>53567976
>We had Arlin in Shadows
>We had Xenagos in Theros
>we Had Domri in Gatecrash
>they're all terrible
Being Gruul is suffering
I'm just kidding, gruul is best and doesn't need a planeswalker crutch

>>53567976
Is just wish they'd reuse some of the planeswalkers we've already seen. I want to see if Tibalt's still a worthless edgelord. Is Domri Naya now? (For some reason I've seen a lot of Naya Domri cards.) And what about Koth? Is he now the RW general of the remaining Mirrodin resistance? OK, Koth I can kinda forgive for not appearing.

Anyway, what color combo do you want to see more of? I'd be fine with a WB that isn't Sorin.

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>>53568027
Forgetting someone?

>>53567976
I mean only this and domri are bad.

The others at least have something likable about them.

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>>53568015
>Shintoism
I'm not an expert on Shinto, but more or less yeah. Shinto's an animist religion, which makes it a bit weird for all of us used to dealing with theist religions. In Shinto, there are kami. Kami gets translated a lot to "god" or "spirit" but there's really no proper English translation. Kami are kami. And just like animism, there are kami for objects, places, and even ideas.

And yeah, you're pretty much spot-on on everything else.

>>53567976
>W 13
>U 10
>B 10
>R 12
>G 10.5
>WU 3
>UB 4
>BR 2
>RG 6
>GW 3
>WB 4
>BG 2.5
>GU 3
>UR 3
>RW 2
>GWU 1
>UBR 3 (Possibly 4 if Bolas gets another printing in Archenemy)
>URG 1

BR and RW are getting shafted.

>>53565253
Actually I wanted to be a garbageman when I was kid.
So you know I guess I'm doing better than I thought when I was a kid.

>>53567974
Lots of little things here and there. I browse spoiler threads and laugh, then forget.
The ones I remember are things like C (which was kind of obvious how it worked once Mirrorpool was revealed) and a bunch of really bad card evaluation. And some stuff from Amonkhet because it's the most recent, like New Perspectives OBVIOUSLY making it so you don't discard (that's not what cycling costs mean), As Foretold OBVIOUSLY not working with the 0cost suspend shit (hurr), Approach of the Second Sun OBVIOUSLY being broken as shit because they'll just say you never cast it before or that they already cast one (because such things can't be written down or anything), and everyone evaluating Aftermath cards as if they were one side or the other.

>>53568054
Ugh, forgot about her. I have zero idea how she plays, but I'm not a fan of her lore at all. Am I also the only one kinda confused that she can't kill anything that isn't a token? You'd expect an assassin to have at least some removal.

>>53568027
I would assume there's a bunch of custom Naya Domris because that's where he planeswalked first

>>53568105
>So you know I guess I'm doing better than I thought when I was a kid.

What do you do now?

>>53568015
Me-oh-jin

>>53568027
Myself? I would like to see different colors see different aspects. We've seen no G/B that manipulates the graveyard. The only R/B we've seen is Sarkhan. What about Simic that doesn't involve mana ramp, or Dimir without mill? Or more 3 color? Or even mono-color that do different things that the gatewatch shitters do?

>>53568107
>New Perspectives OBVIOUSLY making it so you don't discard (that's not what cycling costs mean)
Wow, that made me laugh.

>As Foretold OBVIOUSLY not working with the 0cost suspend shit (hurr)
That's kinda sad. It's alternative costing.

>Approach of the Second Sun OBVIOUSLY being broken as shit because they'll just say you never cast it before or that they already cast one (because such things can't be written down or anything)
Seeing people react to cards where it's practical to write things down is hilarious. I saw a guy flip his shit when he saw a Conspiracy with hidden agenda for the first time.

Though I will admit that for a time, I was kinda confused by Archfiend of Ifnir, and thought if you cycled a card, it would trigger the ability twice, since you have to discard the card in order to cycle it. Though I realize now if that were the case, it would have two separate triggered abilities.

>>53567974
Deathtouch and Trample seems so fucking obvious to me, I don't know why so many people are lost by it

>>53568154
I've been thinking about this for a while, but why does every mono-Black planeswalker fall into necromancer, vampire, or demon? Is there nothing else Black can do as a planeswalker?

>>53568191
That makes two of us. Apparently Wizards has realized this, so they rarely put Deathtouch and Trample together on the same card.

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>>53567974
I played a game of commander fairly recently where one player, who'd been playing for about 2-3 years at the time, had pic related in play. Someone played a kill spell, but she was under the impression that, for some reason, the War/Peace bonus would stay around even after the creature was dead. Why? I have no idea, must've been the fact that people made choices and shit when it came into play which isn't how things normally work. The moral of the story is, the moment you start doing things that break from the norm, someone's going to get confused. A few confused derp moments are inevitable and harmless. This was only one card after all. But if you have a bunch of cards in the set that cause this type of confusion you're going to have people giving up out of sheer frustration - both the confused players and the poor souls trying to explain to them, "No, the creature left the battlefield, so that ability goes away. Just like any other ability on a creature. Nothing is actually different."

>Deathtough and Trample
Oh man, what about Indestructible and Trample? Or Deathtouch and multiple blockers? I once saw an Overrun'd Giant Scorpion blocked by multiple indestructible 1/1's. I think something had first strike too.

>>53568212
This might be me just shilling my favorite black tribe, but I really want to see Shades as a tribe, and seeing a shade walker with some kind of weird black mana dark ritual style mana pump could be super fun.

>>53568154
>>53568231
I'll be sure to work on all these ideas for the next /ccg/.

>>53568212
>>53568191
I think it's because often Magic is a game where rules are learned by experience and not by reading the oracle text.

If I've played with trample for a year, it always works in the same way. I subtract the power by the toughness of the blocking creature and that's how much my opponent is dealt.

But when you get into a new situation, your experience fails and the rules text comes in.

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>>53556899

>>53568212
Black is like the most versatile color so it is a bit odd that it's always the same

>>53568212
Probably because black's color identity is muddled as shit and really the only thing that capitalizes on the strongest part, price of power, are demons.

>>53568009
>as to better design a card that no one uses.
They hired her to design the character, not the card. Hiring an outside consultant to make a new character actually seems like a neat idea, in theory. In this particular case they pretty blatantly set out to make a strong female character and apparently deemed themselves incapable of doing so without outside help, which is more weird than sad I think. But imagine if they consulted, say, a Steve Irwin type to help them design a character that has an affinity for beasts? Or consulted with Elon Musk to create a wealthy inventor type. I think that might actually be kind of cool.

>>53568104
Only considering characters (latest iteration), not considering the oldwalkers that no longer have sparks/died in Time Spiral:
W: Gideon, Elspeth (Dead)
U: Jace
B: Liliana, Ob Nixilis,
R: Chandra, Koth, Tibalt (is actually RB)
G: ahahaha
WU: Narset (you know she'll get R though), Dovin Baan, Venser (dead)
UB: Ashiok, Tezzeret
BR: Daretti
RG: Arlinn, Domri, Samut, Xenagos (dead)
GW: Ajani
WB: Sorin (has defender), Kaya
UR: Ral, Dack, Saheeli
BG: Garruk, Vraska
RW: Nahiri (bugshit nuts)
GU: Kiora, Nissa (will probably go back to monogreen though)
GWU: Tamiyo (only due to stupid Standard limits, she's still a monoblue character)
UBR: Bolas
GUR: Super President
Colorless: Karn, Ugin

>>53567841
>Jace and Gids didn't even have backstories
Jace and Gids had an entire novel to their character.

Nissa no long being a racist is dumb as fuck (seeing as it's like 95% of the reason why she even released the eldrazi) but if they're going to take that away she has literally no character.

They seem to be shoehorning in that she can talk to planes now, which while that's something to differentiate her powerwise, character-wise she's still as dull as the dirt she sometimes is.

>>53568274
I'm at least glad that Wizards has begun to realize how weird it is for them to say that Black is the color of creature removal while giving the best creature removal spells to White. Unfortunately, this means people getting pissed that Black gets to exile creatures now. And that Black is stealing from White's slice of the pie, which I've heard a hundred times before with Blue players mad the Red gets impulse draw, which Blue never seemed to really use anyway.

>>53568054
Remembering her is racism.

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Remind me how they retconned Elf Hitler. Because I can understand it if she saw what she did and realized how badly she fucked up and wanted to change and fix it.

Something tells me that Wizards didn't do that though because that'd make too much sense.

>>53568342
They made her realize she mcfucked up in origins
So nissa's character arc is now "Jorga elf asshole" to "I'm a nice person" on LORWYN of all places, to "Elf hitler" to what we have now

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>>53568212
Wizards has never printed a card that has both deathtouch and trample naturally. The closest they've come is effects like this that get "all the keywords!" which happen to include deathtouch trample.

>>53568288
I imagine Narset will get R after hearing how awful the current Tarkir is compared to the old one. Then Sarkhan will get all upset his autistic (supposedly) waifu doesn't like him.

Why did Wizards just drop a bridge on Garruk anyway? Making him DFC was cool, but they they just kept pushing him BG, and now he's an asshole who doesn't show up anymore.

Yeah, I definitely imagine Tibalt will get B soon.

Ugh, what's even going on with Elspeth? By the time Wizards brings her back, nobody's even going to remember her. Which would actually be pretty funny.

Has Dack ever showed up in anything other than the comics? I mean story-wise, I know he's been on a few cards.

God I was so hoping Tamiyo would replace Jace so Jace could become the WU Guildpact and stay on Ravnica like he's supposed to, but no, GWU for some reason. Also she has a family she left on Kamigawa now?

Whatever happened to Karn? Seems he just went "Whelp, ya'll are fucked. See ya." then left. Though from what I've heard, the SOM books are written by one of the least talented authors to ever live.

>>53568325
I like how people point to Unmake as why the rules for hybrid should stay the way they are in EDH, when black's been getting 'exile target creature' WITH UPSIDE at four mana since at least Urza block. Oh wait, Ashes to Ashes from The Dark, for three.
And they always claim that it's BLACK that can't exile. It's just making shit superdead, black can do that - it just doesn't do it that often.
Nobody ever says that White shouldn't get outright removal for WWW. It's that Black shouldn't for BBB.

>>53568419
They quietly took garruk out back and shot him after that whole triumph of ferocity farce.
And Karn's still fucking around on Mirrodin

>>53568423
>It's just making shit superdead, black can do that - it just doesn't do it that often.
No no no, exile isn't killing something, it's getting rid of it. Black can't do that, because Black only kills things. Duh.

I've heard all this shit before. If you hear this, don't bother with them.

>>53568419
>Why did Wizards just drop a bridge on Garruk anyway?
They had to hurriedly drop Garruk like a stone after that dumb Lili controversy and probably just forgot about him.
Saving Elspeth for Theros 2.0 - now with even less enchantments.

>>53564146
>cast 4 dark intimations
>lose the game before your 2nd one

>>53568443
Exile can be either.

>>53568439
Ugh, that was so stupid. Though I did enjoy presenting an argument that the original printing for Cruel Ultimatum has just as much reason to be seen as domestic abuse. A few minutes later and I'm sure Bolas would be raping that poor demon.

He is? Must've missed that.

>>53568467
The fact that they printed Helm of the Gods and a reprint of Daybreak Coronet only after Theros shows how far they bungled that theme. But I'd be happy to go back to get more Devotion and Bestow stuff.

>>53568477
Beat either what?

>>53568490
A while back they did a "WHERE ARE THEY NOW" thing on the wizards site and it basically just said karn was going robocop/terminator all over Mirrodin

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>>53568419
Karn is still alive
Venser reignited his spark and now he's on a path of vengeance against the Praetors
Garruk is literally insane now and hopping from plane to plane and murdering planeswalkers that he finds
Why Wizards isn't doing more with him and making him more relevant is mindboggling but they're probably saving him for a rainy day
Elspeth is dead and in Theros' underworld. She's still "alive" I think so she'll be back soonish
Dack is searching for Ashiok because he knows that some serious shit is about to go down on Theros. Ashiok did a favor for Phenax and did such a good job that Phenax gave him protection from the other Gods and it's implied that he's completely off their radar too. So he's probably going to be the next big bad when we return to Theros

>>53568212
>why does every mono-Black planeswalker fall into necromancer, vampire, or demon?
>Why are each of the three existing mono-black planeswalkers divided up into one of three different categories?

Gee, that's a real fucking conundrum isn't it.

>>53568498
Killing something super hard or removing things from existence. Red's exile spawns almost exclusively from the latter

>>53568419
>I imagine Narset will get R after hearing how awful the current Tarkir is compared to the old one. Then Sarkhan will get all upset his autistic (supposedly) waifu doesn't like him

I wonder what we are going to get with "Rebels of Tarkir", especially with Sarkhan. Sarkhan's the only one to remember the original timeline, yet Narset is apparently the only human to ever study the time before dragons. So when rebellion happens (hopefully without the Gatewatch there) where is Sarkhan going to side? On one hand, Dragons! On the other hand, the dragons are assholes just like the Khans were and just like Bolas is. What if there are dragons on the sides of the rebels, dragons who found the missing pieces of their wedge, as it were? Will that convince Sarkhan to help Khanny Reb or would he still with the Dragonlords? Would the Dragonlords even want the help of a man who has Khan in his name, a word that is forbidden all across Tarkir?

Most importantly, will Surrak punch out Atarka and eat her, becoming the Dragonkhan of the Temur?

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>>53556867
Samut, the Tested positive for HIV

>>53568503
Venser is still fucking dead
Garruk got mostly fixed by shoving a hedron in his head

>>53568419
Elspeth is in the Underworld sticking to her Whiteness until she's the Whitest White to have ever Whited, last we heard. She made a mask specifically not to use it.
Garruk got cursed by Liliana and a bunch of shit happened and now he's got the hedron that was keeping Ob contained stuck in his skull. He still likes hunting The Most Dangerous Game though. Because he's not allowed to have nice things after having a Triumph of Ferocity, apparently.
Karn is doing SOMETHING with the Phyrexia problem but has otherwise been ignored, just like Koth of the Recursive Name.
Tibbles is confirmed to be a RB character honestly. They've also said that while everyone hated his card, the character himself was decently well received despite that.
Dack was last noted as attempting to steal Erebos's most prized treasure. He will be quite surprised when he finds out it's Elspeth.
And yes, everyone wants Jace to do his damn job. Even the people who like him. Especially the people who like him. Go do your damn job instead of playing superhero.

>>53568522
The dragons are objectively worse than the khans. except for silumgar who's more or less the same as sidisi. Not all that much changed about the sultai to silumgar transition since there was never really much green there. Every other group is objectively worse off

>>53568537
I meant to say Venser ignited Karn's spark
My sentence structure is all fucked today

>>53568554
That's also slightly inaccurate. Venser GAVE his spark to karn via a heart transfer

>>53568542
I really hope Ravnica 3 is about every guild being pissed at Jace.

>>53568419
Nobody gives a shit about Narset. The whole gimmick was she'd be a legendary creature in one timeline, and then spark in the other timeline. Samut has sort of done a similar thing, being a Legend in one set and a Sparking in the next. Samut also has actual connections to the story, unlike Narset.

Garruk finished community college with a bachelors degree in Slasher Villainry, and quit his job as a shepherd or whatever the fuck he was before. He is currently looking for work but the most recent horror set didn't have room for him - too many planeswalkers in the story already. He'll be back once they have room for him. We're finishing up with Bolas, we had Eldrazi before that and Ob as a supporting villain before that. Next in the rotation is either the Phyrexians, Garruk, or possibly something new. If Vraska turns out to be a major BG planeswalker villain, Garruck might have to pick up a third color in order to find work.

Elspeth is waiting for a return to Theros, since she can't planeswalker out of the underworld. It would be weird to have her just show up.

Tamiyo is currently acting as the Gatewatch's messenger bitch, even though she's not officially a member. Dovin found about them through her, and she sent them Ajani. We're likely to see another recruit or two (or antagonist) come their way through her, but it would be weird to pin down a moonfolk scientist by sticking her into a permanent group. She might be in the movie though.

Karn is probably either helping the Red phyrexians and surviving Mirrans organize a rebellion, or is going to show up on the Gatewatch's doorstep to recruit them to fight phyrexians, or is too busy having gay buttsex with Ugin. You know what they say; once you go colorless...

>>53568553
Silumgar is worse than Sidisi for one important reason - like all the Dragonlords bar Dromoka, he and his brood are an ecological disaster, their territory a horrible mess compared to what it was.
Friend Dromoka isn't only because she set herself up in the damn desert. Place was already a shitheap.

>>53568522
I can see Narset somehow stumbling onto what the other timeline and everyone fights back against the dragons. The dragons, being the arrogant assholes that they are, would probably make Sarkhan mad enough to go against them.

I really want to see Dromoka die. What a cunt.

>>53568593
Actually narseet and sammut have more in common then you think. In fact, one could say that they're THE EXACT SAME CHARACTER ARC BEING RECYCLED.
Both are, as you said, legends at the start of the block and walkers at the end
Both are important side characters to the plot
Both have RWX color identities
Both lose one of their colors and become an ally color walker on sparking
Both are a female + other diversity quota walker.
(Presumably) The act of the two rebelling against their society leads to them becoming sparked...
And most importantly, Both are going to be dropped and never heard from again the second we leave the plane.

>>53560902
people expected some serious gaining control of permanents/turns/players from bolas, rather than exiling random stuff.

>>53568651
At least Samut isn't going to have any t1 EDH decks to worry about
Even though she is still quite good

>>53568657
>gaining control of permanents

He still does steal from other players, but because he does it on a + it only increases your card advantage, not decreasing theirs.

>>53568511
OK, that does sound dumb put that way. I guess my question was why haven't they done something different. But I think I just answered my own question by realizing those are the most obvious things for Black to focus on.

>>53568522
Ugh, I miss the idea that the dragons and humans (plus ainok, naga, etc.) would live more or less side by side. And that they'd be enemy colors. Kinda sick of allied colors at this point. But at least I can chuckle a little at that throwback Naga from Commander 2017 was BG instead of UB.

>>53568542
Seeing Jace have to put up with the guilds and balance them would be so much more interesting than him playing superhero. Also, one more thing about the Gatewatch, why are they all playing superhero? Isn't that a pretty mono-White thing to do? Or am I missing something?

I like the idea with Dack. Reminds me of Orpheus and Eurydice. Technically they already did that though, sorta, in Reviving Melody.

>>53568669
All I've heard about Samut is people complaining about how shit she is. Which makes me feel a lot better about my planeswalker design skills.

>>53568609
Forgot about that. The forest there is kinda fucking GONE cause of them. And I'm PRETTY sure that Dromoka made the place worse somehow too...
I personally want to see the dragonlords suffer a fate that cooresponds to their shunned color, so dromoka dies and becomes a giant zombo, Ojutai becomes a gibbering, violent lunatic, Silumgar suffers the fate of all fat and lazy beasts, Ararka does... Something, there's honestly not much bad blue can do to her other than iced forever. The only one I'd want to see live is Kolaghan's brood since they have an absurdly good design. Plus it could work in with the whole "White mana" thing

>>53568669
That's another comparison, both creatures are pushed as fuck for some format

>>53568692
The gatewatch is playing superhero cause fucking Wizards decided it'd be a good idea to jump on the capeshit bandwagon at the precise moment people began to get sick of it.

>>53568692
>why are they all playing superhero? Isn't that a pretty mono-White thing to do?
There's a big mono-white slab of beef that they're all following around. Shame he's about to die.

>>53568692
>Also, one more thing about the Gatewatch, why are they all playing superhero? Isn't that a pretty mono-White thing to do? Or am I missing something?
I chose to believe they all have slightly different motivations.
>Gideon
Superhero
>Chandra
Rebellious rebel who rebels against order no matter what plane.
>Liliana
Trying to get more power and uses Gatewatch as an excuse to go to different planes and get some.
>Jace
Despite being the figurehead I don't really know on this one. Taking knowledge not unlike Lili taking power?
>Nissa
Don't know other than tagging along for shipfags. You would think she would have stayed on Zendikar to help her elf brotherhood and take advantage that humans are weak and establish dominance.

Wouldn't it have been better for Hazoret to be the rebel and become the new planeswalker?
you know...she has been forced to kill her own people, mindcontrolled by Bolas, believing his lies.
She would make for a better tragic backstory than samut.

and we could finally have another non-human planeswalker; we have way too many, and no one asked for a fucking ugly nigger one.

>>53568730

Don't worry, about 2 years after the Gatewatch movie fucking bombs (and it won't even have China to make its money back like Warcraft), if MtG is still around, they'll finally end the Gatewatch storyline.

>>53568741
What elf brotherhood? You mean her tribe? Cause I guess she's kinda already working with them no matter where or what she's doing...

>>53568730
Right, of course, silly me. I'm a huge comic fan, but even I can see this is bullshit. It just doesn't work when the most interesting part of MTG isn't the planeswalkers but the planes themselves.

>>53568735
Aw, I thought you were going to make some joke that because of Gideon, they all have a bit of White in them now.

>>53568692
Gideon is doing it for Generic White Reasons.
So is Jace because he's actually WU but they don't dare print a card with the colors.
Nissa's doing it for the sake of the planes.
Chandra's doing it because muh freedoms.
Liliana's doing it to score points with the people above so she can sic them on her own problems.
>>53568702
Kolaghan herself could use having her head serve as a chair again, though yeah her brood and Ojutai's brood are the best looking of all of them.

>>53556867
>double strike UNTIL END OF TURN
>not until your next turn

SHE DOESN'T EVEN FUCKING TRY.

>>53568743
>and we could finally have another non-human planeswalker; we have way too many, and no one asked for a fucking ugly nigger one.
This doesn't add up
>>53568757
Apparently they got the message a while ago but due to the overly long time their projects spend in the development stage, they couldn't do anything about it till... next block

>>53568743
>finally have another non-human planeswalker

We had a new Non-human walker last block.

>>53568741
The Joraga are pretty much extinct. There's a handful of survivors, and that's it.

>>53568741
>Jace
>Despite being the figurehead I don't really know on this one. Taking knowledge not unlike Lili taking power?

Because Jace, by all his characteristics, should be UW, and would be if he wasn't the face of Blue.

>>53568771
I don't like ojutai's. Too snakey for me. Which is ironic since one of the other broods is supposed to be a bunch of snakes

>>53568797
They're just so pretty.

>>53568794
One isn't a handful

>>53568741
>Liliana
>Trying to get more power and uses Gatewatch as an excuse to go to different planes and get some.
That reminds me, Lilliania's third demon is supposed to be in this set too right?
Man I'm so excited. I hope he's badass

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>>53568807
There are SOME beyond Nissa herself. Not enough to rebuild.
Thus, not actually extinct yet, but might as well be.

>>53568805
Eh. I don't like the overly long and thin necks. To me they'd be better suited if someone lopped off the forelimbs of the whole lot of 'em.
But they aren't as bad as dromoka's lot who should just have no wings or maybe even limbs at all

>>53568821
...Are you serious? Here, my uncle works at Wizards and Nintendo, I'll give you a sneak preview.
>The demon was the biggest badass in the entire plane. Then Liliana killed him, the end.

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>>53568807
The Uncharted Realms story describes Mul Daya and Joraga as "nearly exterminated". There's probably more than one Joraga still around, and explicitly more than two Mul Daya.

>>53566471
The fact that you think you can compare those 2 cards like that is a testament to the fact that /tg/ and you, in particular, are shit at MtG.

>>53568829
This is all pointless to be honest, since I think zendikar MIGHT be screwed even now. Their population probably got too low, and divide that up amongst the 6 different races means that inbreeding is gonna kick in soon and it's gonna kick in HARD

>>53568782

MaRo said that the Gatewatch will still be still central to the story just they won't be as pushed as Planeswalker cards.

Which means if they push the movie (which is a stupid idea anyways) and keep the Jacetice League to be face characters, we probably won't see the end of them until 2021, if we're lucky.

The only good thing about the MtG movie is that Maro will be too busy working on it to fuck up anymore sets.

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>>53568856
>MtG movie
Wait, I thought this was a joke. Is this confirmed?

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>>53568842
I meant as a card you dipshit

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>>53568821
Razaketh. He apparently guards Amonkhet's Gate to the Afterlife.

>>53568856
They honestly just need to wheel of fortune the entire development team there
Bonus points if they do it through the means of ACTUAL promo wheels of fortunes
>>53568877
it's been confirmed for a while

>>53568227
I'll admit, first reading of Archangel of Strife, I misread/assumed the war/peace effect was until end of turn, which would stick around after Archie hit the grave.

>>53568879
Too bad Kothophed was extremely underwhelming. Had to be kind of embarrassing that he was the one actively bossing Liliana around before she went on the murder spree.

>>53568879
Sorry, it's just the way you said it I found very amusing. It was like a kid wondering if the latest monster of the week might actually have a shot at killing the Power Rangers.

>>53568884
>it's been confirmed for a while
Fuck me I'm out of the loop. But after suffering through the horrid stories of the last few blocks, all I care about from MTG now is the cards.

I want to say that I would to say that I'm going to be glad this comes out so it can flop hard and show everyone how shit the Gatewatch are, because this sounds has "hot garbage" written all over it. But then I remember that people loved Avengers and The Force Awakens, and now I'm worried it'll do well.

>>53568920
It was "Confirmed" before the gatewatch were even hinted at. I think the movie rights got bought like, during theros?

>>53568020
Who is the cutest waifu and why is it Simic-chan?

>>53568931
I actually started looking it up. I honestly might've seen this before and just dismissed it because an announcement with no production means jack shit. Just ask Sony how well all their announced Amazing Spider-Man franchise movies are doing.

>>53568962
Because you want to fuck the pussy of any animal ever without engaging in bestiality?

>>53568877

Latest article I could find on it. Warning: it will make you want to strangle MaRo with his own intestines.

http://nerdreactor.com/2016/07/25/sdcc-2016-talking-kaladesh-and-mtg-movies-with-mark-rosewater/

>>53568920
>But then I remember that people loved Avengers and The Force Awakens, and now I'm worried it'll do well.

Eh. That's Marvel and Star Wars, both had fans before hand. Even if everybody who has played Magic in the past 10 years or so went to see it once I doubt it would do as well as either the first Avengers or Force Awakens.

>>53568982
The announcement was the the movie rights were bought. And you NORMALLY don't buy movie rights to do nothing with them. Come to think of it, the rights were bought at just around the time magic began to become SUPER PC

>>53568962
Simic or Gruul, I'd say.

>>53568997
Fucking hell, I'll strangle him with MY own intestines if it'll make him shut up.

>>53569002
>And you NORMALLY don't buy movie rights to do nothing with them.
Buying rights doesn't mean jack shit either. Sometimes studios will buy/maintain rights to something just to make sure other studios can't make a profit off it. Fox is making FF movies because they don't want Marvel to make a good movie with it and make a ton of money. Seriously, I can't tell you how many times I've heard about a studio buying the movie rights for a book or comic or game, yet there are never any talks about making the movie.

>Come to think of it, the rights were bought at just around the time magic began to become SUPER PC
I doubt these two things have anything to do with each other. But it is fun to imagine.
>OK looks like this Magic stuff is pretty popular. I think we could make some money from this.
>Oh shit, it's become toxic, nevermind.

>>53569121
The buy happened during theros I think, which was when the game was on the up. And I'm pretty sure they did the PC thing partly cause someone REALLY wants the movie to happen and partly cause they thought it'd be a good idea to pander to a market notorious for not being a market

>>53569159
Ugh, they might be dumb enough to think that, yes. You think they'd learn after Joss Wedon and Avengers 2, but hey. Those people are just a very loud minority, they always have been, they always will be. I'll be honest, sometimes I look at Doug Beyer's Tumblr, and I feel like he's one of them. Sometimes.

>>53569197
Pretty much what happened is that magic was doing fine and dandy and then some dude screamed rape at a card and started a mini crusade. This was at the time when people took these things seriously so wizards quickly bent. Then, after that was their most successful block ever to that point so I guess some moron decided these events were CLEARLY connected and it had NOTHING to do with the cards being good or a fan favorite block returning so they decided to roll with it. Eventually I guess the cancer took over the office so they're having a hard time dropping the stone even though it's on fire, dripping acid and radioactive at this point

>>53569235
>This was at the time when people took these things seriously
You mean idiot normies who don't know what they're dealing with took these things seriously.

God, I don't want to say that the guys working on Wizards are out of touch old men trying to connect with kids... but they do seem like it sometimes.

>>53569300
You wouldn't be wrong in saying that. They're pretty much totally out of touch with their fanbase except for the dicksuckers on reddit (Who I think are actively censored) and the "people" on tumblr.

>>53569349
Yes, I'm sure all 87 unique posters in this thread are responsible for at least half of all Magic sales.

>>53568015
>Myojin is a title that means "This spirit's really powerful." There's a wikipedia article about it.

The thing about Kami is that they do pop up all the time in what the West consumes from Japan. They're just never really named and run around in the background. The Miyazaki films like My Neighbor Totoro, Spirited Away and Princess Mononoke are stuffed to the gills with them. A good portion of Pokemon are kami (or at least based off of them). It's similar with Persona and with some Final Fantasy stories. Evangelion basically spends half the time trying to conjoin the concept of kami with the Western concept of God (which is translated into Japanese as kami). They're in shows like Cardcaptors, Inuyasha, and Bleach. They're in Western shows like Jackie Chan Adventures, and Avatar: Last Air Bender. They're even used in Star Gate.

The thing was was that the kami were really only seen and not named, or, if they were, it the idea of "kami-ness" wasn't added. When Wizards gave them names and then changed the imagery, there was nothing really to connect it to the little dust balls in Miyazaki films.

>>53568522
Sarkhan is the khan of khans and a human that can turn into a dragon.
He's gonna Ghengis that plane.