/ore/ One Roll Engine General

Define "Evoking". like spiritual or fireball evoking?

So I've been working with the manufacturable extra combined with gadgeteering recently, in addition with other powers.

I feel like it's not great for PC powers, but it really does wonders for explaining how certain things exist in a setting.

Health potions? yeah there was this dude that made potions, one of the merchant houses figured out how to mass produce them. They make a killing

Energy shields (ala borderlands)? yeah there was this dude with a really shit shell sort of power, turns out it was pretty close to mundane though, so now its offered in the standard body armor package. Dude's kinda pissed he's basically a normal dude though.

I also gave it to a dude who manipulates plants (and has gadgeteering to represent his ability to modify plants to his liking). When he makes a plant household level available, that means it can grow on its own, which leads to some super fun stuff

>>53546326
spiritual.

>>53546408
I can post stat blocks for stuff if you guys want.

>>53546424
Hmm. I'm not really sure how to build a spiritual power here. Like I can build a ghost, a power that "sanctifies" land, hell I even made a minor faction in my setting religious zealots, but evoking a god or spirit out right?

it'd be interesting, maybe like that omniscience power from progenitor?

>>53546510

Well, in the sense of the Persona theme, I think we're talking specifically evoking a persona from your head, weaponize your subconscious.

>>53546430
go for it

>>53546558
ooooh, ok shit man I was way off the mark there. (missed the last thread), yeah persona's pretty simple.

>>53546589
Alright, let's do the shield first.
Shield 2 HD 1 point per die 4 points
Defends (+2): Permanent (+4), Interference (+3), Focus (-1), Adaptation (-2), Slow (-2), Fragile (-1) Must Defend (-1), Environment bound (Earth like atmosphere) (-1)

Description: A shield unit will form an ionic shell around it's user, absorbing or deflecting any hits sent its way. While a powerful defense, there are several shortcomings:

1) the shield requires air to ionize. In a vacuum or underwater, the shield ceases to function.

2) Shields lack threat assessment and are automatic. While fast, shields will always defend against whatever hits first, at least with the passive model.

3) Shields require time to charge after broken. They are slow to charge, and need time to re-ionize air before a shield can be formed. Any significant disturbance (like an attack) will force the process to restart.

4) Shields are fragile. They only have 1 hit box (part of the adaptation, dude was glass)

5) A shield can't be stronger than the original's. This caps shields at a dice pool of 6 (part of the adaptation flaw)

>>53546852
Let me know if I've made any glaring issues here, I always appreciate corrections/help

>>53546589
Ok, lets do potion dude, named him Brew.
BREWING
Attacks Extras and Flaws: Delayed Effect –1, Duration +2, If/Then (Variable Effect requires a workshop and time to work) –1, If/Then (Variable Effect is only for potions) –1, If/Then (Potions must be based on observed biological processes) -1, Manufacturable +2, Variable Effect +4, Depleted -1, If/then (only passive effects) -1

Defends Extras and Flaws: Delayed Effect –1, Duration +2, If/Then (Variable Effect requires a workshop and time to work) –1, If/Then (Variable Effect is only for potions) –1, If/Then (Potions must be based on observed biological processes) -1, Manufacturable +2, Variable Effect +4,Depleted -1, If/then (only passive effects) -1

Useful (gadget creation) Extras and Flaws: Delayed Effect –1, Duration +2, If/Then (Variable Effect requires a workshop and time to work) –1, If/Then (Variable Effect is only for potions) –1, If/Then (Potions must be based on observed biological processes) -1, Manufacturable +2, Variable Effect +4, Depleted -1, If/then (only passive effects) -1

Ok so this one is probably more than slightly off the mark, and I had to re-purpose depleted, but hear me out.

The basic idea: Functions like normal gadgeteering for the most part, except instead of making space age technology, he comes out with a 2-liter bottle filled with the nastiest shit you've ever seen. The potions last for about a week in storage, or for maybe a day in the field.

the depleted flaw is a stand in for a flaw of the potions themselves, namely they're consumable. Each potion is one use, and you need to chug the full 2 liters, so you're really unlikely to get more than one effect at a time. Since this isn't the case with normal gadgets, I threw on a flaw like they did from the utility belt power.

Now, as for what the potions /do/.
Each potion is made to mimic something brew's studied. Study a fish, get a potion of water breathing; study a crab, bone armor. (1/2)

>>53547225
He can't mimic everything though, namely he can't do active effects, like firing spines, or granting fire breath. His potions do a thing, and they keep doing that thing until they wear off.

Now, where the manufacturable comes in. Using the normal gadget permanence rules (spend willpower equal to cost, then base will), you create a potion that's basically as close to mundane as he can get. Then, use manufacturable's similar rules to allow other talents to reproduce it, and boom, you can now produce health potions.

I do rule that you need to have relevant crafting skills, high mind, or at least some sort of gadgeteering yourself to reproduce without the original dude at least giving pointers, but it's nothing major.

So brew, plus a small team of pharmacists and labour, and boom, you've got an operation. It really is expensive though. It takes a few sessions worth of experience in willpower to really get it started

Oh shit I forgot, brewing is 12 points per die. If you throw on focus and irreplaceable (The brew npc I have does, but thats mostly a setting thing) it goes down to 3 per die, which makes it a lot more doable

I'll post plant dude in the morning, I'm really tired and I feel like I'm making mistakes copying/explaining things

Again, suggestions/corrections would be greatly appreciated, I've stayed away from gadgeteering in the past, so I'm really worried I messed something up

>>53547225
>Attacks Extras and Flaws: Delayed Effect –1, Duration +2, If/Then (Variable Effect requires a workshop and time to work) –1, If/Then (Variable Effect is only for potions) –1, If/Then (Potions must be based on observed biological processes) -1, Manufacturable +2, Variable Effect +4, Depleted -1, If/then (only passive effects) -1

Hmmm.
Dont use Depleted, use If/Then (Brews must have the flaw One Use Only.

>>53547617
will do thanks. I wasn't sure if required flaws were kosher

Hey what are some good house rules to use? I saw the revised first aid from a bit back and that looked good, you guys got any decent house rules?

i hope this lasts until morning

>>53545336
Is there a PDF trove for ORE rulebooks and such?

>>53548732
If nothing else pops up I have a bundle of them in my rpg dump

https://www.mediafire.com/folder/imzybr5fb8kf5/RPG

Oh hi thread! Didn't expect to see you so soon.

I'm working on something for Persona and Other Childish Things right now, will post when it's done in a few minutes. Just wanted to save the thread from Page 10 first.

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So here's the introduction to Arcana that I wrote for the character building section of the Persona and Other Childish Things module. Let me know what you think. I'm going to be real busy today so I probably won't be able to work on it much more but if I do I'll post more in this thread.

>>53546408
Yeah, Manufacturable to me seems like it's not so much a rule meant to impact the game as it is a limiter on how cheap you can make Focus miracles. As in, sure, your power is attached to this weird device that nobody's ever seen before and all its flaws drop it down to 1 pt per die even though it's insanely powerful-- but could someone else build it if they had the time? Then it's Manufacturable. Nice try though.

In three years I've never come across a situation where Manufacturable as a rule has actually come into play, but it's still on half the Foci that I build because it makes sense for it to be.

>>53547883
Wild Talents Vehicles:
>https://pastebin.com/BC6YQhDV
A fairly deep ruleset for cars, car chases and car crashes in Wild Talents.

Random Social Problems
>https://pastebin.com/qa4NcKr5
This one is designed for Monsters and Other Childish Things but it can work really in any system where you want to simulate a tangled social network.

>>53546852
>Defends (+2): Permanent (+4), Interference (+3), Focus (-1), Adaptation (-2), Slow (-2), Fragile (-1) Must Defend (-1), Environment bound (Earth like atmosphere) (-1)

I'm confused about the "Must Defend-1" part; what's that mean exactly?

Also I'm assuming the 1 hit box is for the shield generator itself, not the shield it creates?

>>53547225
I really like this; I have a villain named the Alchemist that my characters have been trailing that does something similar to this, and I think this is a perfect approach. I'll add this to the Miracle Flea Market if it's okay.

>>53552709
I like it a lot, anon. I've been lurking and watching the conversion stuff as it's been forming - as I'd love to run a Persona style game.

Keep at it!

>>53553063
Must defend means the player gets no input on how the gobble dice are distributed when multiple attacks come in. Shields defend based on whatever hits first, even if slower attacks would be more dangerous.

And yes the shield generator only has one hit box, sorry I should've made that clearer

>>53553149
Yeah dude go for it, i have a few hundred of these guys stated up from my last campaign if you're looking for anything.

>>53553832
Have you shared details about your campaign in these threads before? I'd love to hear about it.

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So here's how I'm approaching the Arcana Archetypes. I don't want to spend all day writing these up but I wanted to get the first five down (I'm saving the Fool and the World for last, since they're usually edge cases). I'm basing these off two links, plus my experience with the Persona games:

>http://www.tarotcardmeanings.net/tarot-archetypes/tarot-card-archetypes-list.htm
>http://www.tarotcardmeanings.net/tarotcards.htm

so if anyone wants to pitch in I'd appreciate the help, since I'd like to move on to the section about turning Monsters into Personas.

Speaking of upcoming work on Persona and Other Childish Things, here's the outline from the previous thread of what the module is going to include:

1. Introduction

2. Character Creation
...a. Updated Stats
...b. Updated Skills
...c. Arcana and Relationships

3. Personas
...a. How Personas are the same as Monsters
...b. How Personas are different from Monsters
...c. Building a Persona
...d. Extras
...c. Elements
...e. Arcana

4. Combat
...a. Elemental Attacks
...b. One-More, Hold-Up and All Out Attacks
...c. Invoking Arcana

5. The Velvet Room (Running the Game)
...a. Themes of Persona
...b. Creating a Persona setting
...c. Shadows and other Threats

6. Other Rules
...a. Sub-Personas
...b. Wild Cards

I just posted the start of 2c, and I'm going to move onto section 3 now and continue to work on 2c piecemeal, since it's really just a compilation of stuff instead of a rule discussion.

The strawpoll in the previous thread also concluded that Weaknesses and Reistances should be intrinsic qualities of a Persona or Shadow's entire body instead of a locational extra or flaw, so that's how we're going to approach it.

>>53554466
Might as well help out a bit.

>The Tower
>Destruction, terror, and pain
>The Tower is often somebody who has had some great disaster befall them, or someone who brings disaster to others. Whoever they are, they know what it's like to suffer. Towers are often in the state they are in because of their own doing, whether through foolhardy acts or simple pride getting the better of them.
>examples: the homeless man in deep debt; the street racer who lost his legs in a crash; the mafia don that always gets his dues payed

>The Devil
>Bondage and freedom in vice
>The Devil is somebody who thinks with their heart (or their stomach, or their unmentionables) befire they think with their head. They are often pleasure seekers, hedonists, or people of little morals. Often ruled by their creature comforts, Devils often feel trapped within their habits. Above all, however, a Devil is passionate; whatever they truly want to do, they will do it like a man possessed.
>examples: the food reviewer who's lost his faith on the food industry; thd impulsive older brother; the classmate who grows and sells weed

>The Hunger
>That which consumes
>The Hunger, much like The Tower, is rarely a positive card. In essence, someone who has the Hunger arcana is nothing less then evil in some form or another. Those with Hunger are often cruel, insane, or animalistic, and usually get deep satisfaction in causing others pain. The Hunger is the id, the animal self, making its presence known, and the ever present desire to dominate others.
>examples: the school queen bee who bullies classmates to suicide; the righteous serial killer who restrains his urges, the psychopath in disguise

Here also are the new Extras we've proposed. Under our Arcana system, each Extra (except Awesome) in the game will be linked to one of the 21 standard Arcana (except the World), and you can "buy" single uses of those Extras using the dice you'd normally get from invoking that relationship on a task.

Brutal: Each point of Brutal cancels one Gobble Die thrown at your Set. Makes it harder to block your actions.

Pro: Useful only. Each point of Pro automatically raises the Height of your set by 1.

Heavy: Each point of Heavy allows you to ignore the die knock-off effect of one attack coming at you.

Cool: Defends only. When you defend against an attack, each point of Cool lets you roll an Area Die and heal a lost die to the location dictated by the die.

Recovery: Useful only. Lets you restore Width-1 in lost die to a target Persona's hit location. You can only use this Extra once per point each fight.

Flexible: Each point of Flexible lets you trade a point of Width for two points of Height (turning a 3x3 into a 2x5).

With the Extras that already exist in the core book and Bigger Bads, we still need 4 new Extras to complete our list. Also these are all of course up for discussion and debate-- none are set in stone.

>>53553900
I'm pretty sure I have, I was the dude talking about those bikers in the first thread? Basically, there were these events that would give people powers, happening seemingly at random (think like the opening of the video game infamous), and the setting is ground zero of the biggest event in history, about 4-7 years after.

The general idea of it is, after Louisiana, and most of the south Eastern United States, got obliterated after New Orleans got an event, someone decided to pull a Galts Gulch (think bioshocks rapture if you didn't get that) and built "a city on the edge of tomorrow" (yes it's mocked in setting), and collected the best and brightest (and a good number of destitute and criminal to act as labor/ human experimentation material) in a single place, safe from the chaos that was consuming the world.

It lasted 10 years before getting hit with The Awakening.
(1/2)

>>53555223
Now in a normal event, maybe one in ten thousand people would get powers, and the powers would come in fully formed and static.

The Awakening broke those rules. Everyone in the city, after surviving what they thought was a plague at the time, got the potential to be a talent (willpower), and instead of the powers just being a part of who you are, powers would often wound up bound to items or wind up mutating the host terribly.

The one thing that remains consistent is that the power is very much determined by the user. For example, let's take one of those powered items (called artifacts). An artifact won't give you a fully fleshed out power, it'll give you a theme to work in, maybe a way of doing things it can do easier than most, and then it molds itself to fit the user. So, say you have a ferrokinetic artifact, and you've always had an inferiority complex about your height; you can now turn into a ten foot tall metal golem. Or take the same artifact but give it to a serial killer who likes to keep his victims preserved and posed? Well, now he can turn people into fully conscious metal mannequins, frozen while he fetches his sculpting tools.

I do give the PC's a lot more leeway with their powers though.

Anyway, the city itself is divided into about 6-7 districts, each controlled by a major faction or two, but that's kinda dry.

I can go on if anyone wants, and let me know if anything I've said raises questions, I'm used to explaining things over several sessions, so info dumps are still kinda difficult

>>53555410
Oh I should mention, tech is a lot more advanced in the city. So if you don't want to deal with power gen, you can totally just make a dude with a plasma rifle and jet pack

>>53552709

I like it. Very clear.

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Decided to write up Lovers, Chariot, Justice, Hermit and Fortune. That will probably be all I can do for these today.

>>53555410
I love the idea of Artifacts as a source of powers. Is it all subconscious, or if I get a pyrokinetic artifact can I say "I want to be able to breathe fire" and it works, or will it be "because I have a hot temper I can increase my body temperature to melt through steel?"

What were the city's districts?

>>53557194
You do get a say in what powers you get if you spend a lot of time working with the artifact and figuring out how it ticks, otherwise you kinda just get the power that "fits". And I'd need more info, but if you have, let's say, a temper that gets out of control, and you lash out without thinking, that would probably lead to an aoe power that, while powerful, lacks control. Again, the more detailed the character, the easier it gets.

Note: you may not get the power you want, but you'll never get a power you'd never use. Powers, above all else, want to be used

I'll do a distric rundown after work, since that'll take a bit

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>>53554466
>>53555077
Gonna lend a hand too

>The Hanged Man
>Martyrdom and self sacrifice
The Hanged Man is one who gives up a part of themselves for the greater good, usually of their own accord. They tend to be selfless and uncaring of suffering inflicted on themselves. Or that's what they want people to think
examples: a terminally ill billionaire who turns to philanthropy, an overworked but devoted teacher, a criminal who's trying to turn his life around

>Death
>Coming to an end
>Ends can bring new beginnings. The people of the Death Arcana understand this better than anyone, as they have changed after they lost much. They also understand that this is but a part of life, and must carry on.
examples: a surgeon who loses many patients, an officer worker coping with financial ruin, a washed up and purposeless athlete

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>>53557780
Love'em, especially the example of the washed up athlete.

Can someone write up Temperance? I'm having a hard time figuring it out. Here's what I have so far but I'm not really satisfied with it and can't think of any examples.

>Waiting is the nature of a person of the Temperance Arcana. She never rushes to a solution, preferring to wait and think things through to be certain that her course is the correct one. Caution, though, can give way to timidity, and this person may seem uncertain in situations that require definite action.

>>53557498
Gotta say I really dig that concept-- a nice marriage between "everyone has the exact powers they want" and "everyone's powers arise from their subconscious needs and desires" which is kind of the subtext of the original Godlike.

What was your player party like?

So a general thought about the new Extras in Persona and Other Childish Things (referenced here >>53555169)

Should these Extras be available to the players to place on their Personas from the start? As in should we say "yeah there are like 22 Extras you can put on your guy, go nuts" and leave it?

My worry is that doing so could throw off the simplicity of the game a bit by introducing so many variables.

What if instead the Extras outside of the original 11 can only be gained temporarily as part of the Arcana Boost system? As in you can't just *give* your Persona Brutal on something, but you can get it by invoking your Emperor relationship for an action.

What do we think? Should we give them all to the players to choose from, or keep the trim list from the original game and make these Arcana bonuses?

>>53546558
Incidentally I just saw this post and I'm going to use the phrase "weaponize your subconscious" somewhere in the Persona module because it's amazing.

Arcana that still need to be written up:

>Temperance (see >>53558267)- Time passes
>The Star- Distance
>The Moon- Longing
>The Sun- Triumph
>Judgment- Final outcome
>The Fool- Carefree ignorance
>The World- Success at hand

The last two, the Fool and the World, I'm including at the end because they aren't necessarily suited to be normal Relationships, but the options should be there if a player or GM wants to use them.

As for the non-traditional Arcana like Hunger and the Aeon, I'm going to include them at the end of the Module along with the other optional rules

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Hey I just read the pastebin and I don't understand how this game works.
Is it singleplayer like CYOA?
If not how do I play with friends?
I'm interested in playing superhero in a world gone mad, what's the setting for this?

>>53559393
All the games listed in the OP have actual rulebooks that are all based/expand on the One Roll Engine, the rules you find in the beginning of the OP is just a basic summary of how the One Roll Engine works.
Head over to da archive thread and search the PDF for the games from the OP that sounded interesting, Wild Talents is bretty gud.

>>53559393
It's an Engine, so you get to pick your game for the setting you plan.

What you want is Wild Talents.
Beware though, the Power Building is like throwing your players at biggest and amoral gunstore in the world. If you don't keep a good eye on them, you'll end up with a tank crew, tank included, to beat up a hobo.

>>53559393
This doesn't read like a serious post but in case it is:

>Is it singleplayer like CYOA?
No.

>If not how do I play with friends?
Pretty broad question but this is a good start:
>http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/57975/Wild-Talents-Essential-Edition
You'll need that and some d10s and that's about it.

>I'm interested in playing superhero in a world gone mad, what's the setting for this?
If you buy the non-Essentials 2nd Edition it comes with a built in setting that most people don't care for:
>http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/78394/Wild-Talents-2nd-Edition

Most of us make our own settings, but the system has a couple published settings too.

I'm going to be gone for this evening, so here are some prompts for the thread before I go:

>WILD TALENTS
1. Share the weirdest power you've ever created for a character

2. What's the best mission/job/session or whatever you've ever run?

3. We've tossed around the ideas of one-shots for the game; let's bring that back around. What would you be interested in for a one-shot module?

>MONSTERS AND OTHER CHILDISH THINGS
4. People who've played the game: what's the best monster you or your players ever ran?

5. Persona related: given that every Persona game is set in Japan, how would you run a Persona and Other Childish Things game in America (or some other country)?

6. Still fielding suggestions for the final 4 Extras that we need to fill out our list

>>53560867
>how would you run a Persona and Other Childish Things game in America (or some other country)?
The main difference here would be school and social norms would be vastly different. And even then, different regions would have different ideas on those things.

>>53561113
It's more of a "tell me your idea" prompt. Would you do a big city, inner city type set-up? Or a quiet country town with a lurking evil, something like Stephen King's IT or Twin Peaks?

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Could monster and other childish things be used to play a handler/drones game in the style of Robert chew's Big 5 artwork?

>>53561690
I think a rural, or small town setting would be more 'American' in nature. Japanese culture doesn't really facilitate that kind of stuff. Plus, a place where everybody knows each other for better or worse could be a good excuse for the players to poke their noses where they don't belong.

Hell, you could mix the two in a suburban setting, kind of like P4, but with more city thrown in

Hey I'm the guy from last thread that was going to do a small writeup on how arcana works in P1/P2 and I have a question. I only looked at the quickstart rules for Monsters and other childish things and how exactly does this system handle skills? Or more specifically, the skills that are independent of stats. Does the system facilitate spells or anything like that? I'll have the rest written up in a while but I would like something else to chew on while I get this done.

>>53563440
Generally it doesn't- every roll is Stat + Skills, like rolling Face + Connive to lie to someone. However it can be easily modded if you want abilities outside of the Stat+Skill system. All you need is to allow the kid to have a separate dice pool for it, kind of like a monster ability. What sort of things did you have in mind?

>>53562648
The general answer for "can you mod a one roll engine game for this" is "yes" because it's so flexible. Can you be more specific about what you're trying to do? I'm not familiar with that work.

>>53563956
>What sort of things did you have in mind?
Ok I can at least do this part without the chart I was making.

For Persona 1 and 2 characters have a mechanic called Affinity. All characters have their Primary or Signature Arcana, but also have secondary arcana (only in the second game). Since in these games characters can use more than one persona, and more than one arcana of Persona, affinity determines what types of Persona they can use, and what limitations or benefits can occur.

The system also changed between P1 and P2 and I currently had focused on P2.

Persona are graded along the following levels: Great > Good > Normal > Bad > Worst

When equipped a character will have a 25% reduction in SP cost for spells for Persona with Great and Good affinity.
Normal pays the normal SP cost
Bad pays 50% increased SP cost
Worst cannot be equipped by that character.

Great and Good also have higher mutation odds which is another mechanic where Persona may gain increased stats, new abilities, or even evolve after using Fusion spells.

I should mention that while everyone has only one Primary arcana; each character in P2 has 5 Secondary arcana. Secondary Arcana and Primary are all arcana types that they are guaranteed to have 'Great' affinity with. The system also uses the four minor arcana suits (Cups, Swords, Wands, Coins) as persona types. This is what makes the system fo flexible for parties, at any point in time you have overlaps on who can use persona at optimal levels since more than the MC can freely swap you are always able to keep people relevant and persona in play.

What I was thinking was using this as part of the dice pool I read about. So if the system you are making isn't going to be using any mana pool, than maybe instead offer a couple dice for using persona in your primary or secondary types, and removing dice for using your Bad affinity.

>>53564400
To elaborate about what is different between P1 and P2. Persona 1's affinity levels are: Best > Good > Bad > Worst
There is no SP changes based on affinity. And while you can equip Best, Good, and Bad persona. You cannot use Bad affinity persona in combat and can only use their support/healing abilities out of combat.

Affinity also determines if your persona will use their unknown power, which is an ability that only activates on low health. It's something I was never able to reliably use in the game but it's there.

If you want a more detailed look at that one I would recommend the Wiki
http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Affinity_(Persona)

>>53552709
As an aspiring technical writer I have some ideas about how this could be formatted and rearranged to make it clearer, ESPECIALLY for people not already familiar with M&OCT. My concerns are far too specific and nit-picky to send as feedback, but when this project nears completion I hope to dump a ton a flashier and revised version.

If my work is good you yourself will approve of it and it'll catch on, if not it'll drop.

>>53555169
K so ESPECIALLY if we're already bloating our system with Arcanus and damage types I really think we need to NOT invent more Extras. Most of these are poorly balanced and most possible Extras that are mechanically viable, wanted and actually going to get used are in the core books or one of the expansions.

How about each Extra can be accessed through multiple Arcana??? This seems way better to me.

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>>53563990
The work is basically artwork of an AU were anti poacher teams work alongside animal-like drones to secure protected wild lands. I havent bought any ORE system games yet but i was wondering how easily the partnership between child and monsters might be able to be tweaked into that of a handler and their animal drone. And if i can use this system to set up a campaign for a team of anti poachers as they traverse and protect a large landscape and track dangerous poachers (most likely with their own drones as well)

>>53558431
Let's start with echo
A trans man (woman? Idk) who started having an identity crisis once their voice stated shifting as hormones became unavailable. Originally just had the ability to mimic voices/sounds and create bubbles of silence (related to her tendency to hide/suppress aspects of themselves), expanded a little bit over time

Shin, the edgy teen with the teleporting knife. Had a dagger that he could teleport to or teleport to him. Grew up in one of the city's more violent slums, had a desperate desire to escape and views violence as the best method of digging his way out. Power isn't that strong yet, but he's decent with a knife, and he's a damn fine scout

Sid, just a dude with more brains and charm (and alcoholism) than he can handle. Keeps the group together as kind of a hobby/ muscle for when he gets in over his head (which happens often)

Alpha, amnesiac with more than a touch of brain damage. Dudes basically feral at this point. Power is basically a werewolf shapeshifter, can slightly modify the forms (emphasize strength over speed, can be weaker but more perceptive, etc) has a bit of healing, bit of extra tough, and can summon wolf minions. Simple, rude, violent, and utterly and completely loyal to those who take care of him. The group tries their best to keep him on a short leash

Windwalker: an ex enforcer for one of the major gangs, decided he'd have better chances moving up in the world in a smaller scene. Superhuman with a bow and arrow, any arrows he touches with his finger gaurd ignore inorganic materials completely, and can sense any objects with spectral arrows up to three miles away. Power comes from an overwhelming desire to kill his old boss, and is unfortunately completely useless for that job. He is unaware of this

>>53560867
1) hat based memetic mind control. If you could perceive his hat, and in fact understood it was a hat, he could implant crude suggestions. Images, drawings, and descriptions of the hat held this power, but either had far less powerful, or far less controlled effects. I basically had to bullshit my way through building it, and I'm sure even that was wrong.
2) best mission I've ever run was when the players had about 5 different goals to go after, and they decided to go after all of them at once. There were half a dozen one on one fights, the players had to do a lot of research and thinking really quickly to figure out who was right for what job, and each job had a bunch of complications and twists along the way, some of them even bled into other jobs. Two pcs died, the players accidentally "resurrected" one of the most dangerous talents to ever live, and failed all but two of the jobs (half win on one of the others). The players talked about it positively for months, and I'm still not sure why.
3) a cool one shot I've always wanted to run involved this talent I made that had a memory consumption and implantation power. The pcs wake up in this cheap run down hotel, no memory of who they are or how they got there. They discover who they are, what their powers are, and why they're there as time goes on, but the potential for twists and fuckery is limitless, but I can't really go into more detail in case one of my players reads this (at least two of them frequent the board, and I'm running this for Halloween)

>>53564613
I'm into this on some real levels. I've messed around with formatting through Scribus but I'm a rank amateur, and I've never actually had any editorial input on anything I've written, so this is an exciting new first! I'd love to hear any input you have.

>>53564924
>How about each Extra can be accessed through multiple Arcana??? This seems way better to me.

...yeah that's a good idea.

We definitely do need SOME new Extras to reflect mechanics vital to Persona, like being able to heal, but needing to literally double our Extras is a tall and unnecessary task. Thanks for the reality check. Especially since the Extras proposed have been very fiddly mechanical ones.

Question: would you say that that there are *any* areas of MaOCT that could be improved or rebalanced, pending changes to the Extras system? Or is it as solid as it seems?

>>53565603
That would 100% work and would be pretty awesome. All you'd need to do is reskin the skills to be less high school and more militant. It's a definite possibility. Tell me more and we can work something out.

>>53565911
These characters are all super evocative of the setting, so nice job with them. Your group is to be commended. So is this still going on?

Interested in how you built Alpha's power and its inherent flexibility. Can you share it?

>>53566156
>1. Nice Hat
That's pretty much the most Jojo power there ever was. Nice job. What kind of hat was it? Or was it even a hat? It raises so many questions...

>2. Failing upwards
This is one of the things I love about Wild Talents. The flow of things can get so chaotic and crazy if your players are willing to just cut loose and it's so deadly that you never quite know who's going to live or die. Do you remember what the goals where?

>3. amnesia one-shot
This is I'd say a perfect idea for a one-shot at a con and as an introduction to the game's mechanics. How do you imagine dolling out the powers? Would it be random or would the players have some say in what they get?

>>53558889
Awe, yay. I'm helping.

>>53567164
Hey every good idea posted here contributes to the final product.

>>53565911
>started having an identity crisis once their voice stated shifting as hormones became unavailable
Technical point: voice is actually, as weird as it may seem, developmental. Trans people and mimics get vocal training to get their voices to shift, it doesn't just do that with hormone therapy. I'm sure you can still run it, just know it will probably be on the mind (and possibly tongue) of some players so address it early or establish a tone of setting wherein small stretches of realism to fit theme are normal or whatever.

>>53566619
I'm so glad. Fiddly bits are the worst.

The core rulebook's Extras are pretty solid, except Awesome which is more than twice as good as any other Extra. I suggest removing Awesome or replacing it with Sweet and the home brew "Exacting" which allows actions with that body part to use the "called shot" mechanic without sacrificing a dice in addition to the dice that's roll is pre-determined. If you want to to replace Awesome entirely, these steps combined with an Extra that adds to the initiative of defensive actions and an Extra that acts as this defensive extra, Sweet, and Gnarly all in one but only costs 2d would replace the "jack of all trades" aspect of Awesome as well.

From "Bigger Bads" Sweet is is pretty solid while many GMs remove Big/Farness and AwesomexMoreThanTwo for being fiddly and broke as hell, respectively. Though I LOVE the idea of having an angel persona that does AOE air damage by flapping its wings, Spray and Splash are useless or moderately OP depending on the encounters one's GM makes and should probably be cut. If either of them can be salvaged it's Spray. Bounce is OK but it should be stressed that one also needs Defend on a part for it to do anything, the vanilla rules leave a LITTLE room for interpretation that should be closed.

Make sure healing costs a finite resource or all heals will have to be "can be used in battle only" which is SHIT in M&OCT, and also note that Assisting (human characters spending their turn on an action that's successes will be increase another PC's dice pool on one action... permitted that action makes sense) is also a helper-type move and could be utilized.

>>53566559
I'm pretty novice as well and most of my expertise comes from a native understanding of... idk... "sectioning" and the way layout affects expectations and chunking. I also had a late-teens fixation on graphic design and was fortunate enough to have very skilled teachers as friends. Once all the technical stuff is squirt away and a rough draft is assembled I'd take it to Adobe InDesign myself, but am already considering and checking out other software.

It's challenging to list all the edits I'm planning in text form, but I suppose I'll have to make a To Do list at some point and you're interested so here goes:

In general:
1) I'd move all the mentions of how this version is different from vanilla and expanded M&OCT on a single page at the front OR the back (depending on how long the doc is) for people already familiar with Monsters to get their bearings of what they need to learn instead of having it dotted throughout the explanations. Though I'd also have the final mechanics described in a way that vanilla and Persona mechanics were visibly separate to someone already familiar with one (in separate paragraphs and signified with key words) but otherwise harmonious. The vanilla book is pretty wordy imo and not terribly well organized, and describing Persona&OCT to a M&OCT virgin would mean abridging that. Fluff must be cut and replaced with broader and less extensive info blobs and word choice modified to better fit the themes of the Persona setting.
2) Better headers and a font that reads better and has more distinction between italicized and non-italicized text seems ideal to me, but stylistic flourishes like that should be left 'till the end. I'd use the original M&OCT core rulebook for a base, but a slightly sleeker more Jpop/modern design (read: slightly different font and framing style) might fit better.

cont:

>>53568914
>cont.

For the character creation: >>53552709
1) I'd clearly divide "this is a PC/NPC Arcana label, this is what it should means, this is how you pick one" aspect from the "this is a relationship, this is what it's good for" into two different sections even if they were both under the same header. (a paragraph break and a change of subject should do the trick)
2) I'd separate that info about Jung and the history of the Tarot as tool for identifying archetypes in a light-grey colored box off to the side in a smaller font to make it a the-more-you-know kind of thing. I'd also relate it to the need to assign your characters an archetype to spell out to anyone that this was actually relevant and not just a fun fact.

For the Arcana: >>53554466 >>53557033
1) I'd adjust the text size and spacing of the Arcana pages so that all of a single Arcanum's text is in the same column with no examples running over to the next.
2) I'd also make sure each Arcanum specifically mentions how it might describe or shape a PC and NPC, even if both descriptions are covered with the same sentence, and rearrange those parts so that they're separated consistently such as always summing the archetype up with vague descriptions about how one might see a character of this type as an introduction, a brief sentence about what having this type might say about YOUR character, and then reiterating the point with NPC examples. This would be quite similar to how it is already, but with a bit more order and readability. (it's nitpicky but very important to making sure people remember what was written with only one read) It'd also help us track down descriptions that emphasize a type's roll to a PC or NPC too much or too little.

>>53568924
if decent images of the game's Arcana can be found without those thick grey boarders (but with the roman numerals) I'd use them instead.

>>53554466 >>53557033
Are these descriptions based on Jungian work, the wiki, or traditional Tarot meanings? It's the first one, right?

>>53570953

My timing it seems is pretty impeccable since today is the second day in a row that I woke up at 6am to workout and saw the thread on page 10.

>>53568972
It's actually a combination of 1 and 3. The italicized portion is Jung's archetypical interpretation of the Arcanum, and I bent the tarot interpretation of the card around that reference point. Personally I wish I had a more comprehensive resource for Jung's archetypes; if anyone can offer their expertise it would be a great boon.

>>53568383
Some good input here.

I'm not too keen on removing Awesome entirely, since the concept of Wiggle Dice/Master Dice is important to most ORE games. One way around it could be how REIGN handles it, which is that when you take a -1d Penalty your Expert and Master Dice, it's equivalent to Awesome and Awesome x2, get dropped from your pool first. So if you have a dice pool of 5d+MD and you take a -1d Penalty you're reduced to just 5d. So maybe make it where Awesome is still awesome but is prone to getting knocked out of your dice pool?

(Also Awesome x1 is exactly the same as making a called shot without a penalty. Reign even goes so far as to say you don't need to follow the Called Shot rules if you have an Expert or Master Die in your pool, because both of those are better than a called shot from the get go).

As a less punishing option we can say "You can't have more than 3 points of Awesome in total on your Persona). Or do both. On top of that we make it so that none of the Arcana can be used to buy temporary points of Awesome.

I agree with dropping Big/Farness and the more elaborate Awesome rules from Bigger Bads. Spray I think is fine as it's a time honored ORE tradition, but maybe nerf its damage output somehow so that while you can hit alot you'll do less damage-- but then we're getting into the territory of Area, so I'm not sure. Let's keep it as it is for now.

Bounce will be clarified.

For healing, I have two thoughts. One is what I already wrote up: that Healing is an Extra you can put on a Useful location that lets you restore dice lost to damage, *but* you can only use per fight/scene for each point of Healing you have. So if you have Healing x3 you can perform a healing action 3 times in a fight.

The other way is actually how I play Wild Talents, which is that healing capacity is dependent on the person *being healed*. In other words if a characters has 3d in Body they can be affected by First Aid at most 3 times in one day.

>>53568914
>1) I'd move all the mentions of how this version is different from vanilla and expanded M&OCT on a single page at the front
Interesting idea. Right now I'm writing up sections 3a and 3b about how Personas are different from Monsters, as I think it's important to establish in very clear terms from the get go. Essentially what we need to convey to someone familiar with Persona is that not *every* rule and mechanic from the games are translated to the tabletop, but that the total result is that the experience of Persona is preserved and optimized for the platform. For instance you never really interact with your Persona in any meaningful way outside of combat in the games, whereas the expectation of MaOCT is that you'll be constantly interacting with your monster. Now you CAN play this module without any interaction with your Persona and it will still work just fine, but I want to communicate that this isn't using the game to fullest.

>2) Better headers and a font that reads better and has more distinction between italicized and non-italicized text
Brother you are speaking my language. Fonts and typesetting is kind of an obsession of mine, so much so that I'm actually trying to get AWAY from it during the design stage in order to focus on content. Also for Persona in particular it's tricky because all of the games have extremely different aesthetics, so we need to settle on a font and style that is both evocative of Persona without favoring one specific game.

>>53566684
Thanks for the kind words man.

Alpha has 4 powers, first is modified alternate shapes from the book, the one all other powers are attached to. It's literally the exact power with If/Then (only for wolf forms) -1, and focus+ Irreplaceable due to being an artifact user.

Extra tough and regeneration are vanilla
But with attached and focus plus one level, so while super cheap, they only work in wolf form

His minion power is vanilla, except they have an attached attack to represent their bites, it looks like this

A+3: limited damage (killing) -1, touch only -2, focus(irreplaceable) -3, attatched (summon wolves) -2, go first(2) +2, penetration(2) +2.

They deal a lot of damage once he gets the ball rolling. Downside is he doesn't actually have any solid means of controlling them besides sheer intimidation, which means he normally has to kill them himself when the fights over, since they usually wind up causing trouble.

File: 01_Characters_Arcana List - Copy.pdf (181KB, 1x1px) Image search: [Google]

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>>53568924
>For the Arcana
What about something like this? It goes from 5 Arcana per page to 4, and it gives a little more space for description. I want to keep our economy of words tight-- to be as brief as possible without glossing over important elements. Which is my concern about "If You are the Magician..." or whatever, because it could make this bit even longer. With this format we're already gaining a whole extra page.

I could maybe put all of the descriptions for If You are the... together on one page, to preserver the flow. Not sure.

>>53572195
So basically you took alternate forms and used that if/then to say "he can turn into anything as long as it's basically wolf-like". Nice solution.

>They deal a lot of damage once he gets the ball rolling. Downside is he doesn't actually have any solid means of controlling them besides sheer intimidation, which means he normally has to kill them himself when the fights over, since they usually wind up causing trouble.
Oh man that's great, I may have to use something like that sometime.

What I like best about this is how nicely your players slotted their characters in theme and atmosphere of the game. Everyone you're describing is clearly on the outer fringes of civilized society. For some reason it's giving me flashes of Akira, of all things.

>>53566801
It was a top hat, notable in the fact that it appeared to have eyes if you looked at it from the corner of your eye. Besides being an artifact, it was a completely normal hat

2) the goals were as follows
A) break alpha out of prison, and grab the biker artifact they have on the way
B) find carburetor, heal his brain damage, hope to god he has a grudge against jack for inflicting the brain damage. I still have no idea how they thought this one would go well
C) help some relic hunters break into a vault so they'll give us one of the biker artifacts they have. If they don't, shake them down
D) go to the dude in charge of keeping paranormal shit in check, tell him the bikers are coming to rob/kill him. So obviously we need to rob him first. For safety
E) there was a fifth one, but I forget

>>53566801
Sorry hit post by accident
3) the powers are pre set, but they're pretty flexible. Since I know my players I know what type of powers they'll prefer, if I didn't know I'd probably just ask a few questions and hand them the appropriate sheet.

I kinda forgot to mention, the sheets are blank until you try to do something. You literally know nothing about yourself, so might not work super well at a con

>>53568359
Honestly no ones questioned it. One of my players is big into LGTB stuff, but I guess she just didn't know. No one else in the group really knows the stuff well enough to call it out, including me.

Thank you for the info

>>53572324
That's actually pretty close to be honest, and yeah I love my players, they can be a bit much to handle sometimes, but we're all friends IRL, so we get lots of chances to talk things over

>>53572324
I forgot to mention that the setting is actually pretty close to an almost rebuilt post apocalypse, if that helps you picture it at all.

I just realized I forgot to go over the districts

Oh hey this thread's back. Read through godlike since the last thread I was in, I'll be running a oneshot for some friends come next weekend.

>>53572492
No worries, hit us up. Yeah that's absolutely the vibe I'm getting so I guess my feeling of "Neo-Orleans is about to E-X-P-L-O-D-E" is pretty on the money.

>>53560867
>1. Share the weirdest power you've ever created for a character
Maybe not the weirdest, but I made a dream manifestation power that let the character create real versions of objects from his subconscious (ala Psychic Artifacts). The kicker was that it functioned off a token based economy that would build up as he used it and would only bleed off when: 1) he slept, giving him terrible nightmares (no Willpower recovery amongst other things), 2) it would twist his manifestations in unsuspected ways or 3) at high token levels his power would gain the Uncontrollable flaw and start twisting the world around him with abandon.

>>53572531
You planning to use one of the published modules or something you cooked up?

Glad to have another disciple on-board. I'm incredibly pleased that there's an actual discussion of this system and these games on /tg, where before I felt like I was screaming int the abyss.

>>53572555
I'll be reading over the one offs that some anon from the last thread told me about. I'll likely use one of them or steal their pregens and ideas. Depends on how much time I have, but I've run military scenarios at cons before so who knows.

>>53572700
There's a good one about regular military vs. German talents. I can't remember the title though.

Ok so let's do the district where the players first met up, and go in order

>The Slums
The prime residential district of the city. It's entirely hyper dense urban sprawl up and down, with thousands of petty gangs, cults, survivalist, and straight up nutjobs trying to get their start. Ironically, despite the absolutely insane level of crime, this district is probably the best place for a group of talents to start out. Stronger talents don't normally stick around in the slums, since there's no real reason for them too, there's always someplace to loot for gear, and The Law always has a bounty or case they need help with.

The Law is the dominant faction in this part of the city, the remnants of the city's old police/military forces, and a good number of recruits to make up for their insane turn over rate. They have a rather complex history, and their current leader has some controversy around him (since he used a major disaster to sieze power), but corruption is kept surprisingly low all things considered. They've given up on maintaining conventional law in the slums, only able to really deal with the gangs who try to be slum lords, and the outside gangs trying to creep in. The rely heavily on Bounty hunters and private detectives to supplement their forces, and in rare cases, making deals with the more benign groups of criminals (an example I normally give, The Law has a really good relationship with this band of super thieves called the rovers, they're thieves, yes, and no, they probably won't reform, but they try not to kill people, they stay under the radar, and they generally go out of their way to be a positive infliuence on their community (if only to buy loyalty))

Now I do want to address /why/ the slums are so violent. It isn't just because people are assholes, it has a lot to do with resource scarcity and how people survive there.

A basic example, since you can't really grow food in the slums (or at least not enough), people will often flock to (1/2)

>>53572700
>>53572732
Found it. "One O'Clock Wake Up", it's on DriveThru as PWYW.

>>53572964
Talents that have some method of feeding them, or gangs that control arable land/can raid enough food to support them. Well, the problem with the first is you've built your community on one, easily removable, person. if they go down the entire community is at risk of collapsing (assuming here that everyone grabbed talents for other roles. Also healers/matter generators are pretty rare to begin with), which leads to raiders usually, which perpetuates the cycle. Gangs skip the collapse step, and just become targets for the powerful/desperate, not to mention they normally conflict with The Law regularly. There's other reasons, but this one I feel helps illustrate what the average slum community looks like a little bit.

>>53572984
Well thank you, I'll add that to the read through list. I do love the idea of grunts, but will likely run something with talent pcs just for the sake of trying the system in full. Though that does remind me of the more successful of those con one shots.

2 squads of regular dudes was the best character (everyone else being ww1 supersoldiers and their handler).

>>53572984
This is actually not bad, thanks

>>53573089
I don't suppose you've ever read Reign's Company mechanics, have you? Because they're the perfect fit for a game of urban warfare like this.

Alright, so re: Extras and Arcana. Let's take another pass at this.

Let's first assume that there are 20 "normal" Arcana you can have for your Relationships, which excludes the Fool and the World. These could be made Relationships if you want, but generally the Persona games don't work like this, so we'll focus on the others. That leaves us with 20 Arcana.

Here are the Extras from the base game, excluding Awesome which is too good to link to an Arcana:

Area
Burn
Gnarly
Sharing
Spray
Tough
Wicked Fast

And here are the good ones from Bigger Bads:

Sweet
Bounce

That's 9. If we add Healing it gives us 10, which means that we can have each Extra linked to two Arcana.

However, I'm inclined to maybe drop Sharing from the list and replace it with the following:

>Element (name isn't set in stone)
You can attach one Elemental effect to an Attacks quality for free, which allows it to inflict damage of that type. You can add more Elements to that quality at a cost of 1 die each.

Thoughts?

>>53574682
I've heard of reign from the other thread, but I haven't looked at the book yet. I've been meaning too since it does seem like a good fit from what I've heard.

Have you used it in the past?

>>53575132
Yeah I've used the rules in the past to simulate gang activity. They work great.

Here's it works: a Company is any group of people with a single goal, be it a business, a cult, a gang or a political party. Companies have five qualities that are measured between 0 and 6:

Might
>Your company's ability to fight other companies

Treasure
>Your company's wealth and resources

Influence
>Your company's ability to gather information and affect other groups indirectly

Territory
>How big your company is and how productive its domain is

Sovereignty
>How loyal your company's members are to its leadership

Companies act by adding two qualities together. For instance you can launch an attack with Might + Treasure, and you can defend against an attack with Might + Territory.

Qualities erode when used, meaning that each time you use Might during a period of time (usually per month) it temporarily drops by 1. Qualities can also fall when attacked directly. Finally, Qualities can be temporarily raised by stuff like player actions (stage a daring raid on the enemy's warchests to reduce its Treasure! Rally foreign aid to your cause to increase your Might!)

It's a fast, simple, fun ruleset that works great in any system, even non-ORE ones.

>>53564400
Wow I completely missed these two posts. Reading over them now.

>>53575774
Seems pretty solid. Would fit pretty neatly with the two gangs fighting for the uptown district. ones nearly unbeatable in a straight fight, but blunt, the other pretty much views direct confrontation as a losing state inherently

Thing is, how do you represent treasure when a faction doesn't need resources/funds to function?

File: Treasure.png (54KB, 523x411px) Image search: [Google]

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>>53576302
What kind of faction *doesn't* need some manner of material resources? A biker gang needs cash to maintain their bikes, buy gas, a cult needs money for goats blood and to pay rent for the community center where they perform their ceremonies, etc... Even if hard cash isn't needed, Treasure dictates how good their stuff is. I attached the description of the 6 levels.

You CAN have a company with 0 Treasure, but that would mean they literally have no material resources whatsoever and need to function without it. Which you still can, it's just real hard. Attacking another gang when you've got no bullets for your guns or fuel for your drive-bys is a tall order.

>>53564400
Mmm okay so I can see what's going on here.

You could say that Arcana in Persona 1 and 2 is an internal force instead of an external one; your Primary and Secondary Arcana represent elements of your identity and personality.

(I'm seeing here how different P1 and P2 are from the rest of the series)

So from there what we'd see is kind of a jettisoning of the Relationships system and importing more of an Identity system like what Unknown Armies 3E uses, but where each identity-- each aspect of your character-- is conntected to an Arcana which in turn is connected to your Persona.

Question: In Persona 1 and 2, does each character have only one Persona at a time, or do they have a rotating stock, Wild Card style?

>>53576670
Ah, misunderstood slightly then.

And thank you for the description

>>53576873
>Question: In Persona 1 and 2, does each character have only one Persona at a time, or do they have a rotating stock, Wild Card style?
Rotating stock which is shared among the whole party

>>53577010
Hmmm okay I think I have an idea of how this could work.

>1. Creating and modifying Personas is a group effort
To start with, each player creates a Persona for their character, of their Arcana. Throughout the game, each player has opportunities to modify and change these Personas, and they can be swapped between characters.

>2. Arcana Affinity
These basically work the same as Relationships, but they're internal instead of external. So your Affinity with The Lovers is your desire for romantic connection, not your relationship with your girlfriend, and your Affinity with the Tower is your decision to drive drunk that left you a paraplegic, instead of your friendship with a guy whose drug addiction destroyed his family. Depending on how much these influence your personality and actions they're ranked higher, and you can use your Affinities to get bonus dice in certain actions; and just like Relationships, Affinities can be Shocked from failure, which is you questioning who you think you really are.

>3. Personas and Affinity
This is easy: a Persona can only pull bonus dice from an Affinity sharing its Arcana. This incorporates the grading system pretty nicely: if you have Rank 4 in Magician, you'll be able to use a Magician Persona much better than if you're trying to use an Empress Persona, which you only have Rank 1 in.

>>53572244
>Which is my concern about "If You are the Magician..."

What I mean was: is instead of

"The High Priestess is someone who’s got a secret or secrets, but you need to earn her trust before she’ll spill the beans. She’s frequently in some position of authority, but prefers to run things from behind the scenes. She’s usually a tough nut to crack, but can be a valuable ally."

try

"The High Priestess is someone who’s got a secret or secrets and often seeks positions of authority but prefers to run things from behind the scenes. She’s usually a tough nut to crack, but can be a valuable ally as you need to earn her trust before she’ll spill the beans."

Sentence 1: A High Priestess is someone who knows what others don't and is usually running things, but from behind the scenes. (what a HP is and why you'd label your character one)
Sentence 2: She's tough to get to know but is a valuable ally. (the boons and dynamics of befriending and interacting with a High Priestess)

separating the information crucial to what an Arcanum is from that detailing how they might be interacted with. Having one sentence dedicated to each might be a good policy. I love your examples btw, they fit Persona's style of exploring character and the school life setting while also doing a great job framing the archetypes.

>>53577872
Those are nice edits-- they convey the point cleanly and are packed with little nuggets you can dig out to build a character.

What do you think about the adjusted single column format?

>>53575015
>Element

Adding on the nature of an attack separately from the attack itself is an interesting format. If the first is free, than writing
>Wings: Attack, Element (Air), Useful (Flight, Blow Away)
is functionally the same as writing
>Wings: Attack (Physical, Air), Useful (Flight, Blow Away)
or
>Wings: Attack (Slash, Air), Useful (Flight, Blow Away)

Element's format is clunkier than I'd hope but is certainly doable, though notice it does eliminate the potential for a part to be capable of elemental but not physical damage, as was the original intent for my Wings.

I don't think the capability to use the majority of a Persona game's spells should be dependent on having a social link to one of two archetypes ESPECIALLY if having resistances is going to be a thing in this game and therefor one would expect hitting elemental weaknesses to be a major mechanic. If you want to tie the capability to use each individual element to an Arcanum ("Justice unlocks Lightning and Holy" for example) that might be a neat thing, but the potential to have elemental damage at all should be more accessible than that. ... I suppose I'll scroll the wiki and see if I can make a cannon list associating elements to Arcanum.

===

On an only tangentially related note, I'd like to note that having all of one body part reduced to zero and no human to Charm you into continuing the fight (or one who failed to do so) is the M&OCT equivalent of a Shadow getting so beat up they offer an item, money, or their services in exchange for mercy, and it could even be a good equivalent of being knocked down. So long as Courage checks are a thing for Persona teams, having elemental vulnerabilities to facilitate Persona-styled hostage taking is unnecessary. Doing extra damage would is still nice though, and such WOULD contribute to knocking all boxes of a single body part down.

>>53578303
>I don't think the capability to use the majority of a Persona game's spells should be dependent on having a social link to one of two archetypes ESPECIALLY if having resistances is going to be a thing in this game and therefor one would expect hitting elemental weaknesses to be a major mechanic.

That's not how we're doing this. You can still buy any Extra for dice when you build your Persona, which includes Elemental attacks.

What we're saying is that the Arcana of relationship allows you to trade the bonus dice you'd normally get for invoking the relationship for single use of an Extra.

For instance, let's say that Gnarly is linked to the Emperor, with whom you have a Rank 2 relationship. That means you can feed that relationship to your Persona to get +2d on a task, but you can also trade some or all of those dice for extra points in Gnarly for that action.

Does that make sense? It's using the same dice = extras economy that Monsters are based around, but adding another layer of choice in how you use it.

>>53577969
Single column is a little less elegant imo but a lot easier to manage and to read. We might also be able to get 5 on a page by altering the margins (lets wait until we're settled on a font before we mess with that). Switching to single column seems like a solid decision.

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So here's the intro to the section about Personas. I wanted to prepare the reader, whether he's coming from a Persona background or a MaOCT background, to understand what they're getting into as far as the *why* of making a Persona before we start the *how*.

>>53578689
Pretty much how I'm feeling about it. Like I said earlier I'm *trying* to be less particular about formatting in the content stage of design, even though it's like my favorite part of a project.

What we really need to is to finish up the Arcana write-ups as laid out here: >>53559300
I was stupendously busy today and didn't get a chance to tackle any of them, so if anyone wants to pitch in tonight that would be helpful.

I gotta say this thread is making a surprising amount of progress on this persona homebrew. And it's actually looking ok so far

(Persona doc writer here)

I've got some Wild Talents going on tonight and will probably be out most of tomorrow so I may not be able to post much of anything after now. Just as an update.

For the actual rules for creating a Persona, the first part I'm thinking of saying "Instead of reviewing the steps to create a Monster, here's how we build a Persona like Arsene" and showing that, since he was statted up a couple threads ago. That way we don't need to cover material that is exactly the same as what's in the MaOCT rulebook.

>>53580474
Glad folks are appreciating what we're doing. Is it something you're interested in playing?

>>53581745
not him, but I have a whole potential group for it, including myself.

>>53581764
Awesome. Anything in particular you're looking to get out of the game? Right now so much of the project is theorycrafting based on knowledge of the system; as a player and GM, what's your ideal for how it should hash out?

>>53583152
I'm not too familiar to DMing, but as a player I'm just hoping for something that isn't terribly complicated and will accurately portray the Persona experience.

Ok next district is market street, aka let's plagiarize the gilded age. Market street was the arts and culture section of the city, with various street/farmers markets acting as a more basic draw. The tech and business spillover from uptown was also based here, basically guaranteeing its status as the rich snob district.

When the awakening hit, markst street was left almost unaffected by the paranormal horrors that devastated the rest of the city, excepting a few small clusters that hit the south end.

What did hit market street were refugees of all shapes and sizes. They tried to shit their borders, but with no real military force to speak of except the market security, the district's population tripled even after the dead were counted.

So you now have a shit ton of expendable labor, infrastructure that, at the time, was far superior to the other districts, and very influential and ambitious people with a comical disregard for human rights/sanctity of life.

So, when the players stumbled ass first into all of this, they found an ultra modern shithole being torn apart by labor riots, biker gangs, anarchists, and the warring baron lords. They also found a shit ton of future tech that wasn't available else where in the city (at least, not on their budget)

Market street, through naturally low anomalous occurance and an active initiative from one of the baron lords to buy/confiscate all known artifacts, has only a few hundred paranormal talents. The counterpoint is they have an absurd amount of future tech floating around, and a small army of would-be revolutionaries dying to get their hands on it.

It's a fun place

>>53583335
So what, to you, is a genuine Persona experience?

>>53584034
Just something faithful to the games. the same sort of mechanics, the same feel, just that same coat of paint. Something where when you play it you can go and say "Italmost feels lie I'm playing Persona!"

>>53584703
A LOT of this, for me, is going to come down to themes and group dynamic, and that'll come down to the GM and group.

>announce an awesome fantasy Roman setting
>do a couple blogposts about it
>then say nothing for over a year

Fuck's sake, I was looking forward to The Ninth Legion.

>>53584728
Group dynamic really is key. Even before the series introduced the life sim elements, Persona was all about how the main cat interacted with each other and the threats at hand.

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>>53585217
...and by main cat I mean main cast.

>>53584728
Isn't that true for most games though?

>>53584745
What's this in reference to?

Hey, anyone think they could help me design a memory vampire power?

>>53586917
What, exactly, do you want it to do?

>>53586917
I have several powers that could fit here, I need specifics

>>53587653
For reference I'm the guy who talked about running a one shot where the villain was a memory manipulator

>>53586957
>>53587653
Basically, I want to be able to steal memories. It doesn't have to be permanent, but if it was, I imagine that might have some damaging effect.

If you could figure out a way to transfer skills too, that would be baller.

>>53571800
>I wish I had a more comprehensive resource for Jung's archetypes
>if anyone can offer their expertise it would be a great boon

I'm that "aspiring technical writer." I'll check the library for any physical copies on Jung's tarot escapade when it opens in a few hours and if that turns up dry I already have a tone of his essays in corrupted PDF that I've been meaning to heal. I'm sure I'll find SOMETHING decently expansive on the subject. I'm already reading up on the modern take on the Major Arcana and have already tripped through the Persona wiki's Arcanum summaries a bit. I think the way you're sewing these inspirations together is terrific and will try to emulate that style if I end up saving you effort and taking a crack at the remaining cards myself. That's not to say the archetype summaries couldn't use work, just that what you have so far is a really, really great place to start.

Who's in favor of retitling one's relationship with their persona "Self-knowledge" in the Persona adaptation?

>>53588365
Hmmm not too hard. Question: is the memory theft permanent, barring the thief voluntarily returning them to the victim? Or can a person overcome the effect of their own effort?

>>53588365
Memory theft
Useful: duration +2
Just use a modified mind control here
Skill theft:
U: duration +2
All this one does is inflict width in penalty dice to the targets rolls
Variable skill
A:duration +2, variable effect +4, If/then (can only mimic skills stolen) -1, attached (skill theft) -2
D:duration +2, variable effect +4, If/then (can only mimic skills stolen) -1,attached (skill theft) -2
U::duration +2, variable effect +4, If/then (can only mimic skills stolen) -1, attached (skill theft) -2

And here's what makes it work

This should work, though I'm fairly certain there's better ways to do it

>>53591762
I imagine the victim could overcome the effect through their own effort too.

>>53592339
This is still pretty cool, though.

>>53593688
>>53595300
I feel like if you have to bump a thread twice in a row, it might be time for the thread to die

>>53595705
Just wanted to be safe; I was travelling when I saw it on page 8 and wanted to bump so it would be open when I got home.

>>53595369
>I imagine the victim could overcome the effect through their own effort too.
Based on the above set-up, what you can do is write into its description that the Duration lasts until the Player makes a successful check, let's say Mind + Stability (an abnormal combination but I think it's appropriate for this situation) verses some fairly onerous difficulty (like a 7 or higher). The target can make this check only once per day, week or month depending on how long-lasting you want the effect to be.

So, I know one roll, but I don't know jack about persona. I think I might be able to help if someone can explain it to me in a way that makes sense (the wiki is kinda...opaque)

>>53597777
tldr it's jung's theory of psychology in JRPG anime format.

in a more advanced explanation, there's a world besides the normal one formed from humanity's collective unconscious. In this world live beings called "shadows", which are the parts of each and every one of us that we repress for whatever reason. By facing out own unique shadow, people can gain things called Persona, which are like cool monster dudes that pop out of you and have magic powers. Tarot cards are used to represent "social links" and each persona, representing just what kind of relationship you have with them or what kind of person they are. A person with The Devil as their card is passionate, a person with Chariot as their card is headstrong, etc.

>>53584745
There is a potential setting book for roman legionnaires that got themselves sucked to another world. Sadly there is not much info about it yet, except some posts on arcdream website.

Just for bumping sake:
Once we had a game in Raildex setting using WT rules. We got gravikinetic girl that could rip cars and ppl to pieces with ultra-precise gravity control. Another girl was able to control internal body electricity (powers were body hijacking via kisses and biolightnings) And yet another girl was hypersmart and hyperfast.
Ofc we had some pesky mages in our cozy !Academia-city causing havoc.
Memorable moments:
gravikinetic hitting (posessed) Orthodox mage with city lights;
hyperfast girl making a pantyshots of her friends.
To bad it was really short, our DM decided that he can't into slice-of-life and folded it.
btw, sorry for mistakes, I am not a native speaker.

>>53597853
So from that description it sounds like people have a stand personal to them, a sort of representation of that shadow they face down

But from earlier discussion it looks like personas can be traded somehow?

>>53598080
there are certain people that have a trait called the "wild card" that allows them to absorb more then one persona into themselves and use them, while those who don't have it are stuck with their own unique one.
Wild cards are always the MCs of each game, besides in other plot related incidents.

>>53598148
>stuck
personal persona are WAY cooler

>>53598148
Ah, that certainly does clarify things.

Based on what's here, it looks as if you guys are super focused on the tarot themeing, but I'm not super clear on what tangible effects it'll have? Restricted intrinsics/extras/flaws perhaps? Only certain cards have access to certain types of powers?

>>53597917
The slice-of-life element to things reminds me of my group; half our game time revolves around actual crime fighting and the other half is hanging out and hashing out personal problems; right now they're trying to navigate the sticky problem of one character being betrayed by someone she trusted, and is shutting down emotionally as a result and they're all trying to be there for her.

Overall sounds like a pretty great concept; for some reason wild talents really works well in the "Crazy City full of superpowers" setting. I also love seeing how, like in your example, people use the system for games in specific existing setting.

>>53598372
The main approach that the module is using is Personal Personas for everyone, since that's pretty much exactly how MaOCT works. Rules for Tradable Personas (P1-2) and Wild Cards will be included as options.

>>53598375
We're focusing on it because, frankly, there's not actually that much that needs to be changed to translate Persona into MaOCT (to the extent that the Drunk and Ugly Podcast did it purely with vanilla rules). Instead we're focusing on what can be added.

The main use of Arcana is outlined in this post: >>53578511. Basically a Relationship's Arcana can give selective bonuses to a Monster during a fight, in addition to the normal bonus dice from the core game.

I've actually paused the Arcana writeup right now to focus on rules for building Personas themselves.

>>53583571
What kind of future tech are we talking about exactly? You mentioned that the tech level in your campaign is pretty advanced, so how far are we talking?

>>53598780
Ah, missed that critical detail. My bad. Thought it there was more homebrew going on

sorry

Here's a sidebar I've written for the introduction to Personas section:

>Should Personas have Personalities?
In the Persona video games, a character's Persona can talk with its user and has a definite personality, but it never actually factors into the player's experience with the game. Most Personas have a few lines of dialog when they're initially summoned, and are silent for the other 50-100 hours of game time.

You can certainly play this module that way, thereby making your Persona just a tool to solve puzzles and a weapon to vanquish evil. But we don't recommend it. Doing so ignores key features of the tabletop role-playing format and of Monsters and Other Childish Things in particular. We encourage players to treat their Personas like fully formed characters with their own voices, desires, frustrations, fears and needs. You'll get much more mileage out of the experience that way, trust us.

>>53599847
Just as an addendum to this, in P2: Innocent Sin, Maya remarks that her Persona "is afraid" when the fake Kashihara (Nyarlathotep) is nearby, and the artificial Persona users in P3 have difficulty controlling them, giving some basis to the idea that Personae have volition separate from that of their user.

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Progress: as I outlined previously, instead of reviewing the monster creation steps from MaOCT I provided a sample Persona in the form of Arsene to show what it looks like.

What should be the proper order in which the components are explained? Should we start with Arcana, since it's at the top; Elements, since it's a completely new system; or Extras, since it's the most familiar?

>>53600616
Nice tip; I may make a note of that. I forgot about that aspect of Persona 3.

>>53600711
Extras should go first to bridge it all.

>>53600991
That's what I'm thinking too.

Also, a question: Personas and Other Childish Things is an...okay name for the module, but is there a better one we could come up with? Writing this I'm finding it a bit awkward. On occassion I have to reference both Persona and MaOCT, and referring to the module by a name that is basically both of those smashed together is a mouthful.

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Added section for Extras, Old and New. It explains how the Element and Healing Extras work.

I figured it would be a good idea to allow the GM to decide if he wants to restrict Extras like Bigness or Range as >>53568383 pointed out. But for Arcana bonuses (discussed >>53578511
), I say we stick to the following:

Area
Bounce
Burn
Element (*New*)
Gnarly
Healing (*NEW*)
Spray
Sweet
Tough
Wicked Fast

So here's where we're at. We need to decipher the key themes and qualities of Personas attached to each of the 22 Major Arcana. In order to streamline the flow of module I'm going to put them at the end of the Persona chapter as an appendix; that way it's not a huge list in the middle of the "How to build a Persona" rules.

The list:

The Fool
The Magician
The High Priestess
The Empress
The Emperor
The Heirophant
The Lovers
The Chariot
Justice
The Hermit
Fortune
Strength
The Hanged Man
Death
Temperance
Devil
The Tower
The Star
The Moon
The Sun
Judgement
The World (I think this is an exception, right?)

Each needs to have clear and distinct qualities that a player can use to establish a definite identity for his or her Persona.

>>53598850
Ah, sorry I kinda wrote that without thinking. Didn't realize it's super unclear.

its advanced enough that the really common/basic powers (forcefields, lasers, flight, etc) have been "solved", or analogues were already available.

And while not exactly common, cybernetic enchancements, bio augmentations, and autounomous robots aren't super rare either.

In all honesty, writing it out like this still feels like it isn't doing the job

But to at least answer your question, in the market street case they were mostly looking for auto rifles (think assault rifles with aim bot. the revolution isn't exactly well trained), cloaking devices, mutagen (grants stuff like subdermal armor, regen, enchanced senses), cybernetics/security drones, advanced body armor, or shields.

Note that tech powers normally are normally not as good as paranormal stuff for a few reasons (think laser rifle vs laser vision), but it works a lot better for outfitting an army.

>>53603001
Ok ao for themes would something like:
The Fool
>Key Themes
Upright:
Beginnings, innocence, free spirit
Reversed:
Recklessness, foolishness, risk taking

Work, or would you prefer more cohesive/in depth?

Also I need a working definition for qualities, cause I'm not sure if that refers to the powers they have, or personality, or what. I don't mean to be a dick I just really don't like misunderstanding

>>53586729
The next ORE ruleset/setting, is along the lines of the missing roman legions went missing when they got sucked into alternate world with faries and magic and shit.

>>53601571
In sticking with ORE homebrew naming conventions it should be PersOREna

>>53605697
Dang.
Persona and Other Highschool Traumas?

>>53599847
Hmmm. It's stated in Persona 5 that the Persona is the merger of one's self and shadow and that they just often manifest as two separate beings even after the merger. The "shadow" of someone with a palace in Persona, as well as in general in Jungian psychology, is the aspect of one's self they aren't aware of or suppress. Given most if not any persona's dialog in the latest game and how the shadows-transitioning-into-personas' personalities coincide with whatever hidden nature or passions the human character is "unlocking" at the time of learning to summon their persona this Jungian perspective certainly seems to be applicable to the games.

Additionally, judging by the combat and cut-scenes, humans with persona seem to be able to feel their persona/shadow's feelings and thoughts and vice versa, or at AT LEAST VERY AWARE OF THEM.

I... always just assumed the human represents the "face" they put on for dealing with the public and fulfilling the roles of their everyday life while the shadow represents all the parts of their nature they've learned to ignore in order to do that. This seems most true for Mokoto/Johanna and Akira/Arsen.

A "persona user" has learned to re-merge those two natures, being AT LEAST aware of both their halves simultaneously and using each to synergise with the other even if they're still somewhat separate. On this note of awareness and synergy, please be aware that Morganna says one with no awareness of their "true self" cannot summon a persona (but can have a palace or corrupted shadow). Note that humans with high awareness of their person can hear their person in their thoughts and act as one in battle. This fits perfectly with the way someone's relationship with their monster works in M&OCT.

I highly recommend playing it like the human/deamon relationship in "His Dark Materials."

On the topic of PersOREna or P&OCT, my two favorite names for it so far, I think what a human character views the world as (for instance, their prison or perhaps a castle) should replace "Good/Bad Thing You Did" on the info sheet.

Having all shadows have "Favorite Things" might work OK as is, note that it typically lends itself to cartoon comedy when it comes in to the story at all, though perhaps replacing it with values they must rebel against or a virtue/vice they must uphold would be better? Perhaps human/shadow pairs could each uphold one virtue OR vice, together forming the traditional "one virtue and one vice" ttrp thingy?

>>53605312
I'm looking for for "These are the kind of Personas that are controlled by the Fool arcana." Like fools usually are tricksters as well as general protagonists; since this game has no fixed protagonist we need to focus on be trickster part.

>>53609417
Gotcha will do after work

>>53609417
The fool represents the moment before Genesis, innocence, beginnings, and UNPREDICTABILITY. ("joker" "wild card") This only works as an archetype because within the Persona games the player can give the main character any personality they want but is also never as integrated with the world as the other characters are.

For a player it'd be most appropriate for a character controlled by a player who just does random stuff to keep the DM on their toes and/or ruin the session. For an NPC I can't see it representing anything other than a baby, very young child or... maybe someone conscious but mentally disabled and nonverbal who seems to have a personality that you can't quite get a good grasp on due to how different they are from you and your trouble communicating.

>>53610176
>The Fool
>NPC

It's basically Charlie Kelly from It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia

So one could say that Personas of the Fool are mischeivous tricksters whose unpredictability can vary between "it's all in good fun" and "actually kind of mean spirited and sinister."

Examples would include Loki (Norse Mythology), Puck (Shakespeare), The Joker (Comic Books), Bugs Bunny (Cartoons).

That's kind of what I'm aiming for here. Something a bit more directly usable than a broad psychological breakdown of the Arcana. We want the player to be able to say "My Arcana is the Empress, so my Persona should be like..."

Make sense?

>>53610391
So, just throwing things out here, it looks like the fool primarily has themes of "starting out" and "unpredictability" to it.

Just looking at the tarot meaning I'm not seeing anything mentioning tricksters, what source are you guys using?

But one way to combine the themes mentioned above would be: your persona is weak, either you just got it or something just changed about your relation to it. It's powers are going to be uncontrollable at first, every use is gonna be a gamble. The benefit is that the fool isn't as restricted by its tarot in what powers it will eventually manifest

If I've seriously fucked up let me know. I'm kinda shooting in the dark here

>>53610601
thats what i was thinking. maybe the fool was given trickster themes by Jung and Shakespeare?

>>53610176
>This only works as an archetype because within the Persona games the player can give the main character any personality they want but is also never as integrated with the world as the other characters are.
It's also worth pointing out that in the first two games, the Fool arcana just represented a small number of Persona that everyone could equip with 'Great' affinity. It was never assigned to a character as their primary arcana until P3.

>>53610699
Ooooh shit, does jung assign meaning to the tarot? I didn't think to check that

>>53610699
>>53610601
>>53610767
I haven't been following your conversation much but the fool is the joker in an actual game of cards. People actually play card with tarot cards as well as tell fortunes. You probably know, in most games the Joker is wild. It's the same in most tarot decks thus why the fool is the wild card in persona.

It fits together thematically with what the cards are supposed to represent (in the case of the fool it represents the beginning and the end) as well as the way the fool can be played in most games, as either a 0 or a 22. They played up the wild card/joker association in P5 due to the game also drawing on picaresque and phantom thief novels which often feature trickster like characters.

>>53610899
Ok, that explains a ton. My only frame of reference with tarot is as a fortune telling thing

>>53610899

>>http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Fool_Arcana
>Portrayed as a jester laughing very close to a cliff, accompanied with a dog at his heels. The Fool represents innocence, divine inspiration, madness, freedom, spontaneity, inexperience, chaos and creativity. This Arcana is originally the only one that doesn't have a number, thus it is considered as the Arcana number 0 or number 22.
>As such, the silent protagonists from the recent adaptions often start out with the Fool Arcana, in reference of their personality being shaped via player's actions and decisions. At the end of Persona 3 and Persona 4 the protagonists are given a Persona of the Judgement or of The World Arcana, probably as a reference to the Journey of the Fool in the Tarot, which is also explained in detail by a character in Persona 3.
>The Fool Arcana tends to be the "jack of all trades," since its Personas can inherit all skills without preference for any type. Mythological figures of the Fool Arcana are often heroes, fools, or the protagonists of their own mythological stories.

k I can totally see where both "innocence" and "trickster" come from now

>>53610699
Tarot evolved from actual playing card games in the 1400s, and wasn't used for fortune telling until the 1700s, believe it or not. Prior to that, their mystic symbolism was just a part of the game, not unlike, I dunno, MTG. So the feedback between the game and the culture I'm sure went both ways.

The idea of "Personas of this Arcana are a certain way" comes direct from the Persona games themselves. For instance the Magician Arcana includes Nekomata, Jack Frost and Jack O'Lantern, so it's very easy to say "Personas of the Magician Arcana tend to be folklore-ish fairy types with an emphasis on being able to perform magic tricks (and treats)." That way if someone is playing a character with the Magician Arcana he could look at that and decide to make his Persona Houdini or Rumpelstiltskin or The Great Pumpkin.

Strength includes Valkyrie, Titan, Oni and Siegfried, so you could say that Personas of the Strength arcana represent heroes and figures of extreme physical might. The Chariot is similar, but it's Personas include Athena, Ares and Thor so you could conclude that Personas of its Arcana represent specifically Personas of warfare, which has a slightly different connotation.

Thing is the games have never really been consistent with their Persona themeing, so we have an opportunity here to clarify that to help players come up with their own instead of just pulling from Atlus's list.

So we could change it so that Strength represents mythological figures of exceptional might and bravery, whereas the Chariot represents warriors of exceptional skill. So Hercules would be a Strength Persona, whereas Arjuna would be The Chariot.

>>53611173
>>53611259
Ok I feel like these posts should've been made earlier.

Super informative stuff, thank you for sharing

>>53611259
You're a leeeetle off regarding Strength and Chariot.

The Strength Arcana tends to represent a personal inner strength rather than a physical might. So Valkyrie and Siegfried apply because the former is about a figure who chooses fallen warriors to go to Valhalla (and keeping the inner strength to deal with so many dead), Siegfried overcomes personal struggle to succeed at his goals, and Titans struggle and endure through suffering from being overthrown by the Olympian Pantheon.

Additionally, Oni is typically Chariot arcana. Chariot tends to be about Victory and overcoming odds, so Oni and Ares (another Chariot Persona), which are heavy hitters, as well as other Chariot Personas such as P5's Captain Kidd and P4's Tomoe Gozen are historical figures who overcome some sort of odds in their hey day (captain kidd overturning the privateer system for fun and profit; Tomoe becoming a woman samurai ) Typically, Chariot Personas focus on physical might with lots of physical attacks.

>>53611981
A good post. This is why I'm asking for help because I'm a bit out of my depth here.

Any insight on Star/Moon/Sun?

>>53612114
Alrighty then, I do tarot for funsies so this is my jam!

Star tends to be a card of hope and possibility. Star points towards being inspired, feeling renewed, and potentially being the calm after a storm (depending on where you get it in your spread), so it can also invoke serenity. Reversed, the Star Arcana can also mean despair, or losing inspiration/hope. So a good Persona for this arcana (and I'm pulling from history here) could be an artist, such as van Gogh; a man who had a wealth of artistic ability, but died after suffering a long standing depression.

The Moon is a card of the unconscious. Rather as the Moon rises in the night, the Moon points towards aspects of dreams, uncertainty, the "wilds" of that realm. It tends to be a card of illusions, anxiety, insecurity and the unconscious. Reversed, the moon is interesting, as it can be a release, or a confrontation of fears as well as indecision about when/where to proceed on account of said fears. It's about letting go of the upright aspect. To pull from anime a little bit, a good example of the Moon would be Tai from Digimon, as he has to learn Courage in order to overcome the obstacles of his challenge, and gains the crest for his efforts. Additionally, if you want to be superficial (and Personas can be flexible in their arcana, desu) you could also choose a demon/spirit who works through dreams and illusions, such as a Baku, which is a Tapir that eats dreams.

1/2 because I used too much text.

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>>53612114
>>53612408

2/2

The Sun is an interesting card because it's one of the best you can get in a reading. It is basically the happy bundle of joy of the tarot cards. Rather like the first sun's rays on one's skin, it represents positivity, warmth, success, and vitality. Reversed, it can even be considered positive (in some readings). However, reversed it can also stand for a (temporary) discouragement, or a lack of success. If you want to be very literal, personas who fall under the Sun can be Solar Deities, such as Ra, or you can work with beings who are active forces of positive influence, such as Baldur (who is incidentally, also a god of light!)

>>53612408
>>53612465
Thank you based tarot anon

So, anyone make any interesting powers recently?

>>53613263
Any more arcana you want me to cover? Alternatively, I can give you my email, and we can touch base more from there; as threads do like to die eventually

>>53616021
maybe The Devil or The Tower?

>>53617094
I'd like to hear about the Magician. I feel like my understanding of the symbolism isn't especially accurate.

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>>53617163
The Magician is interesting - (and mind when I discuss the pictorial symbolism, I'm drawing from Rider-Waite, which is a classic deck that is used; has something of an opposing camp with other decks like Marseilles and Thoth). If you look at the picture I posted, note how the Magician has all four minor arcana symbols (a cup, a sword, a wand/baton, and a pentacle/coin). Additionally, he's holding a white staff that points upwards (indicating heaven/the sky), and a hand that points downwards (indicating earth); and has an infinity symbol floating above his head. The Magician indicates a distinctly balanced air to him - he is a master of the mysteries of heaven and earth, he is in full control of the esoteric and the energies of the minor arcana (which are traditionally associated with the 4 classical elements; water, fire, earth, wind).

In short - he is the pinnacle of balance in all things, matters of heart vs mind, material and immaterial. Additionally, the Magician points towards men in the person getting read's life - if you're a guy, the magician tends to indicate you. That's why people you meet in Persona with this arcana are traditionally men - The Magician points towards a man in his prime, in his element and in complete control. Reversed, however, this is all turned on it's head. The magcian becomes unbalanced, about to fall over, his materials being scattered.

Personas in this arcana are traditionally masters of the esoteric/immaterial (such as emotions and/or magic) and the material (money/fame/etc) - Jiraya the ninja wooed a womans heart and thwarted Orochimaru the snake magician with toad magic; Susanoo became the master of his fate after being cast down by Amaterasu, Zorro was never caught and spawned a legend, etc.

>>53617452
So would it be fair to say that Magician Personas are, as their name would suggest, either explicitly magical (like Jack Frost and Jack oLantern) or otherwise represent the complete mastery of some physical or mystical force?

>>53617955
You could interpret the arcana in either of those directions, really. When I gave examples, I was thinking more in terms of player characters when I was describing figures like Jiraya and Zorro (as those are persona used by your players, rather than being those grabbed/obtained by the wild card)

Additionally, I noticed that Atlus tends to give the arcana in terms of the social link as a whole, rather than being just for the person as is - for example, the Temperance Arcana in Persona 4 is about the woman in question learning to balance her life with her stepchild as a mother, as well as her misgivings about the child not accepting her; rather than being overwhelmed by one or the other. So you can use arcana as a litmus for a base persona, as well as lend to developing the character's arc of growth.

>>53617094
Also, I am writing up about the Devil and the Tower still, so I'll get to those in a moment

>>53616021
I'm not the main guy for this, but some means of out of thread communication seems like a good idea

Should we do a discord?

Also I'd love to hear more about the high priestess

>>53618316
A discord sounds lovely! I can set up a server right now.

>>53618354
Please do. Let's see if we can get people

>>53618410
Here's the link!

https://discord.gg/aWZMuZP

>>53618532
Cool, probably gonna take a while to get people, but good to have

>>53618532
I'm the main document writer here (I'm really just thinking of myself as a coordinator though); I'm not in a position to join this right now but more power to you all. If you're all serious about this, then the goal should be to identify the core themes of each Arcana that can be directly interpreted into an outline for what kind of Persona you can have in that Arcana.

We also need to finish fleshing out the Arcana Relationship list that was started here
>>53554466

To date we have the following that still need write-ups >>53559300

>>53618602
Ah, I just did an overview about Sun, Moon, and Star over here

>>53612408
>>53612465

If that helps you any. I liked the idea of making the discord so that we could have a place to keep data between threads.

>>53616000
I feel kinda bad for you bro since all non-MaOCT conversation is being swept up in the Persona madness; but to answer your question:

One of our group's newer characters is a telepath named Pathos. She has an offensive telepathy power that allows her to inflict harm on people by forcing their bodies to "remember" injuries received in the past.

In a recent episode they were fighting members of a white supremacist gang called the American Empire. She used that power on a guy and it busted his leg up real bad. The player narrated it as him flashing back to Iraq where he was fighting in an oil field an a rig collapsed around him, crushing his leg.

I was GMing and I decided that doing this triggered his PTSD and gave him a huge dose of Willpower that he then used to make the battle way harder on the players. It was a pretty cool emergent moment in the game.

>>53618631
That's perfect. I think we can safely say that an Arcana can be interpretted either literally-- so you could have Apollo in the Sun Arcana and Selene in the Moon Arcana-- or symbolically, giving you Baldyr in the Sun and Morpheus in the Moon.

>>53618685
And another thing - biddy tarot is a VERY good tarot resource, especially if you want to implement upright/inverse relationships of tarot cards. It's my main go-to when I need to double check things.

>>53618646
That sounds awesome actually. Are you that guy who runs that podcast game? Arcadia?

>>53619381
Nope that's Ross Peyton at RPPR. I took some inspiration from him though (my setting is a US state called Arcadia, and island off the coast of North Carolina.)

>>53619526
Neat. I remember seeing you in the first thread, always good to have you around.

>>53619953
Yeah I been playing WT for like three years. Its my favorite system.

>>53616000
Well, it's more like loot, but it gives a power. (Neo-Orleans dude here)

Salamander Mutagen 2 HD 12 points
U: Permanent +4, Only One Use -4, Focus -1
U: Permanent +4, Always on -1, Attached (mutate) -2, Engulf +2, Self Only -3, Slow -2
U: Permanent +4, Self Only -3, attached(mutate) -2
3 points per die

Ok so I'll need to explain, but basically it's a salamanders regenerative ability in a vial.

The first is drinking the vial itself. The "Mutate" ability. As a little bit of an added cost, every time you use a vial there's a chance for unintended mutation (for this vial it was 10%, more powerful means mutation is more likely).

The second quality is a healing factor. It heals 2 shock and killing to all hit locations every other round. Not super powerful, but it's another way to offset medical expenses.

The final quality is the namesake power. Grants you the salamander's ability to regrow lost limbs. It restores 2 hitboxes per day, up to normal toughness. Using this ability to often may result in stunted or malformed limbs, which will probably require either a trained surgeon or a gene therapists to correct

This vial was one of the few my players actually decided to use. Sid, that high charm/high mind character, was tired of spending his downtime in medical care, and he figured his charm was good enough to offset all but the most severe mutation.

Well needless to say he rolled a mutation. Wound up with reptilian eyes.

Didn't really phase him though. Just wears sunglasses all the time now, claims he's hung over 24/7. Everyone believes it

>>53619977
Good to have you around. I've been running my game for two, and I still make really dumb mistakes.

I know that everyone here seems to be super interested with the Persona mod, but I wanna play normal MaOCT

>>53620458
I've always been super curious about it, but I can't get my head around monster gen/the relationship stuff

>>53618646
Would you mind if I asked for stats on that? Sounds really interesting, but how do you build it?

>>53620358
...how do players get their hands on this? I mean, those aren't minor abilities.

>>53620358
That rules extremely hard. I'd totally play this game if there was a setting module for it

>>53621779
Sure I'll provide it tomorrow.

>>53620458
Last thread someone was running a discord game set in a catholic school where the players had Monsters taken from horror films, the idea being that in that world the films actually happened and had been covered up. Wonder if that guy's still around.

>>53624446
Yep, still cursed.
Maybe next week?

>>53622908
I've been running it for about two years now, so I could probably turn it into a module if there was enough interest. Not gonna lie I have just as many bad ideas as good ones

>>53624195
I look forward to it!

>>53624195
Assuming this thread survives tonight.

Its been a tad slow

>>53624835
It's been alright. Could be better, could be worse. It's still a pretty good thread

Bump so it's still here in the morning

>>53624455
Cursed?

>>53626358
As in it's been tricky to get together I reckon

>>53545336
>/ore/
or what?

>>53628666
Ayy, nice one

>>53624465
So the deal is that the power itself is actually super simple; the whole effect is really all in its description.

MEMORY OF PAIN (4 pts)
>Attacks Extras and Flaws: [Non-Physical+2] Capacity: Range
EFFECT: The user creates a telepathic link with her target, then sifts through his memories for instances of pain, injury and suffering that he's experienced in his past. With a single powerful psychic burst, she forces his body to act as if that injury has been revisited in full, or indeed in a magnified degree to suit the damage output of this attack (Width in Shock and Killing).

This attack cannot be blocked and is unaffected by armor, but in the instant that the link is formed, the target can make a Stability check as to defend against its impact. His Set can gobble the Memory of Pain Set regardless of timing (such that a 2x9 can completely defend against a 3x5).

>>53629556
Ok, the being able to defend while ignoring timing is actually interesting. What made you decide it works like that?

>>53624465
Alright hit me: what's the one idea you had that just didn't work?

Also is your setting branched off the core Wild Talents setting, or did you work out your own from the ground up? I noticed that you referred to your superheroes as "Talents", but is that just for convenience?

>>53629600
Balance, for one. An attack that can't be blocked and ignores armor for Width in SK is real nasty, and the rules for Non-Physical state that you should provide some other means of protecting yourself from it.

Ignoring timing makes sense because it's a battle of control within your mind that triggers autonomously when the attack lands. So it doesn't matter how quick your mind is, only its ability to sift reality from memory.

It's nice because against weak enemies it's pretty much a magic bullet, but against strong ones it's not nearly as reliable.

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I added a section to the module discussing the meaning of Arcana to a Persona. It's pretty short and to the point and I think points the player in the right direction.

Also I should be on the discord most of today for text chat as Personanon

>>53629614
Just for convenience. I wasn't even aware there was a core setting when I made it, I just took things I liked and ran with it.

One of my honest to god worst ideas was a hidden stat called "affinity" for paranormal powers. Basically, do things the power likes, you might get a free (very minor) secondary ability later on, or your capacities might get a little temporary boost when the power wants you to be aggressive

Thing is since, for whatever reason, I decided it should be a hidden stat, only one player ever got anything out of it. The rest of the party just chalked it up to the enemy they were fighting at the time being a talent who messed with powers, and didnt think about it.

If I run the campaign from the start I might just drop that mechanic, or at the very least tell players point blank that it's a mechanic.

In my defense, this was the first time I ever officially made a setting

So here's how I've written up The Magician and the Sun, based on Arcananon's posts in this thread:

Personas of the Magician are, as their name suggest, explicitly magical. They are figures that have supreme mastery of some force of the physical world, whether as a nature spirit, an elemental diety or a hero so exceptionally skilled that his talents seem magical in their own right.
>Examples: Djinn, Houdini, Jack Frost, Jack O’Lantern, Jiraiya, Queen Mab, Zorro

Sun Personas are beaming sources of goodness, beauty, vitality and positivity. They very commonly take the form of solar deities or heroes connected directly with light and purity.
>Examples: Apollo, Baldr, Ganesha, Horus, Phoenix, Quetzalcoatl

>>53631044
Would sun be good healers you think?

>>53631067
Could be, sure, but only because their gleaming radiance infuses all around them with a spark of their brilliant vitality.

More directed, conscious healing has normally been the domain of the High Priestess and the Lovers, at least in Persona.

>>53631094
Ah, my bad. What are the normal abilities for each arcana?

>>53631124
In Persona, Arcana have fairly rigid roles between healing, support, elemental magic and physical attacks. For this module there's no need to be quite so specific, since we need to balance thematic coherence with player choice. The I think we should approach it is to say "this is what Persona of this Arcana are usually like" and then allow the players to do whatever they want within that theme. Want to create a physically powerful Lovers Persona? Go for it. Want to create a healing support Tower? You can find a way. As long as there's some kind of thematic link, even if it's a subversion, it should fit nicely.

>>53630802
Yeah I can see how a mechanic like that would be cool and tempting but would be hard to make work and make sense. The idea of "your power has a mind of its own and rewards you for certain actions" would be really cool if it could be pulled off well. Maybe have one of your NPCs clue the players in to that fact?

>>53631404
Yeah, the second major arc boss was the main guy who was supposed to clue the players in on the fact that there was more to powers than they thought

I didn't expect them to take two years to get to him though

>>53631543
Question for you: how do your fights normally run?

In my game any fight between characters that are relatively evenly matched are lengthy brawls with lots of blocking and dodging mixed in with the actual hits, so that they actually end up quite nicely choreographed-- but the WT actual plays I've heard like RPPR normally kind of wandwave fights a bit more, wherein characters end up in more of either a rocket-tag situation or where some guys have so much defense and armor that they're kind of untouchable until a lucky shot kills them. What's your experience been?

>>53631766
Very much depends on the talents involved. For the most part, fights fall into chase, hunt, brawls, and puzzles.

Chase is when an enemy has the players on some sort of clock and just had to evade them until victory (can go both ways)

Hunts kinda the opposite, there's either a remote threat or some sort of hostile environment the players need to get through and complete an objective

Brawls are straight fights, I usually try to throw twists in where I can though

And puzzle powers are basically powers that are unbeatable until you figure out how they work, or at least stumble unto a possible response.

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Updated the Persona doc with info about Evoking (how you summon your Persona) and Elemental Weaknesses and Reistance. Very close to being done with the "how to make a Persona" section of this.

>>53633209
Very neat. Thank you for the effort.

>>53632279
Note I can give examples of each if desired

>>53633436
Please feel free!

My party's kind of been a little unhappy when I've done puzzle battles in the past. I'm interested in how they react to a character I've debuted whose power is currently unknown but is basically King Crimson from Jojo Part 5 (she can erase people's perception of time within a period of time).

Notes for the Star and the Moon as far as Personas are concerned. Not 100% on either of these so suggestions would be appreciated.

The Star: Personas of the Star embody hope, possibility, inspiration and virtue. More specifically they may be gods or spirits of music and art, and even of the stars themselves, which symbolize the yearning of human hearts for distant desires.
>Examples: Asteria, Callisto, Galahad, Maat, The Pleiades, Sarasvati

The Moon: Personas of the Moon are creatures of illusion, dreams, trickery and the subconscious. These traits align them directly with the Moon itself, and so many of these Personas take the form of lunar spirits and gods.
>Examples: Baku, Mothman, Morpheus, Princess Kaguya, Selene

Deep MaOCT thoughts here concerning Persona:

I've been thinking about the stat placement of Dodge and Block. Right now we revised them to place Dodge under Proficiency as "Reflex" and Block under Dilligence. This is essentially the inverse of what they are in normal MaOCT, but honestly I'm inclined to switch them back around to preserve the "Diligence = Feet" and "Proficiency = Hands" element. Any disagreements?

>>53635401
There are pros and cons to each and, though picking the best is part of making this game the best it could be, none of them are major. I'm torn. Either will be good.

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If anybody wants to skip the 15 skill points and just have each roll use two main stats PotA style (though only the most OR the least damaged stat should have its dice pool reduced proportionally to its current damage to maintain M&OCT balance) this is what I have rn.

>>53635698
Huh, that's an interesting approach. I'll definitely include that as an optional ruleset. Very clever!

In chatting on the Discord I've come up with this for the High Priestess:

The High Priestess: Personas of the High Priestess are normally feminine figures of wisdom and strength , who wield their insight into the mysteries of the universe as a poweful weapon. They often take the form of maidens, princesses, witches and wise, spiritual warrior women.
>Examples: Artemis, Konohana Sakuya, Lady of the Lake, Pope Joan, Pythia, Scathach

>>53635698
>>53635835
:O You think? In that case I should invest more time in it and invite discussion.

Currently there's no "block" ability. Guts/Diligence makes the most sense but then Beat-Down will need to be made an extension of Prof/Gut's Fight or would need to replace another intersection's combo.

Btw the intention was that fully capitalized abilities use the same stat twice instead of two different stats. This provides a counter balance to the increased flexibility of each individual stat and makes sure even the cleverest duo-build garners a few weaknesses as a fair trade-off.

>>53637051
One could say that Fight can be used for both hitting and blocking, but with the counter being that you can't Fight a truck.

>>53637228
Are the kids even supposed to fight?

>>53638560
Of course not. Fighting is bad. Use your words, not your fists.
*Note that words are exactly as effective as fists in MaOCT

>>53571946
Why not remove awesome as an extra and tack it on to an Arcana-based relationships system? Turning dice into wiggle dice could be a good incentive to feed them to your persona, especially if there isn't another way to do it

>>53635698
The problem with this approach is it removes that cool bit in the book that says you can make up your own skills

>>53638632
There's already a good incentive to feed relationships to your Persona, since it's the quickest and easiest way to compensate for damage. I feel like removing Awesome from the Extra altogether isn't really necessary or even desirable since it's taking away a major element of what makes Personas more effective at combat than Kids (and hence why it's such a compulsion to just throw your Monster at that dick Joey who keeps hocking loogies into your backpack at lunch).

>>53638560
To answer this more seriously, Persona users being able to fight is a thing in Persona, though it's never plan A outside of rolling Diligence + Beat Down for All Out Attacks. But in a Persona setting I can easily see physical confrontation between kids being much more of a thing given the stakes at hand. Plus with the default setting being High School it's more likely.

>>53638560
>humans "Fight"?
They'll never be combatively stronger than the typical Persona, if the typical Persona is as strong as the typical Monster, but there is an edge to be had in getting two decent strikes per turn even if one is squishier. Additionally, fighting may come in handy in the real world as well, or even in a meta/shadow world, if you plan to take out another human. Monster vs Kid combat is considered grave and taboo in most setting, and also a little messier than is often wanted, thus incentivizing the

I made that chart, "Fight" should have been named "strike" or something; it represents your ability to hit living things.

>>53637228
>fight = Punch + Block
Proficiency already has Aim (ability to shoot, from Diligence), Fight (ability to strike, from Guts), and Dodge (alternatively flavored Defend, from Knowledge). I'd hesitate to give Proficiency MORE combat skills, particularly ones that double up on a function it already supports (Dodge). Good suggestion though.

... although, taking that little bit of optimization out of the Proficiency/Knowledge combo might be a good idea. See, a Proficiency/Knowledge build is a bit of a no-brainer rn if you just want a dungeon crawler. It's a defensive+offensive combat machine with three means of attack (Aim, Fight/Strike, Put-Down) and a single very strong defensive action (Dodge) and a strong Out-Think stat (Out-Think is like initiative in M&OCT but WAAAAY better, and it also pairs AMAZINGLY with a strong Defensive action and/or a Persona with Usefuls). Plus, such a build has Notice for exploring and Notice and Stamina to help out in social/physical challenges when their weaker stats fail will/did fail them. Giving Prof it's own defensive action so it doesn't need to leech Knowledge's would add a "well I have a defensive action anyway" to the duo's optimization lessening the probably above-curve synergy... though only by making Prof more optimal on it's own. Hmmm.

>>53633772
Ok so a thing I kinda forgot to mention, is that it's possible, and actually very useful, to mix the types of fight up. So, you'll see overlap in these examples.

Ok you mentioned puzzle bosses, so we'll start with that.

Ok so there's this talent named Siren, she's one of the stronger talents in the city. Her list of powers include: singing a song that charms all who can hear it in a massive aoe, flight and mild intangibility (since she's very much flavored as a specter), a touch that seems to kill instantly (party never tested that), the ability to raise the dead as undead husks with the same song, and finally, if killed while she has minions, instead of dying, one of the minions will become siren instead. Please note she normally hangs out in the flooded bits of the residential districts, where thousands of corpses are easily available.

So yeah, pretty strong. That is, until the party figured out that all of her powers (except the flight/some parts of the intangibility) relied on the song. The thing that threw them off is that the silence doesn't immediately cancel it out, it takes a round or two for the songs effects to peter out, which really threw the party off.

But Sid figured it out, and managed to get echo to stop panicking long enough to focus her silence power on the dead attacking them (siren was out of her range at the time). Wind walker's arrows, while unable to actually hurt siren, were still able to track her. Echo and windwalker rode alpha, chasing down and trying to silence siren. Honestly the most dangerous part of the fight at that point was falling off of alpha, since he was doing shit like climbing up buildings and jumping from ship wreckage to wreckage.

It worked though.

>>53643130
Shin was also there, just not involved in the fight. The entire fight was to rob a boat siren was guarding at the time, and shin's talents lend themselves more to that sort of objective

>>53643170
I'll try to post more examples in the morning

>>53643130
>resurrection powers
I've seen these mentioned before. Are these powers normally allowed? It seems like it'd take any tension out of a fight cause "lol I get to try again"

>>53642446
Those are actually really good points. Would it be fixed by just not playing a dungeon crawler type game?

I've got another power gen request. How would someone make a cause and effect reversal ability, dependent on someone lying or otherwise telling a falsehood, about an existing lie?

>>53644753
Ok please give an example of the power working, I'm confused

>>53644753
Set up a conditional. Put either Endless or Permanent on the power so it's always switched on then stick an If/Then on it with an appropriate condition to act as a trigger for the effect. Not quite sure what you mean by cause and effect reversal, but take a look at the Interference extra maybe?

>>53644830
>>53644873
Let's say you're in a fight, and you tell your opponent they couldn't possibly shoot you with their gun.

And then immediately afterwards, they exclaim they certain can do it with ease, triggering the power. Then, the next time they try to shoot you, it simply doesn't work, since they've activated the power and cause and effect is immune for that specific thing.

>>53644616
Having balanced gameplay that relies on several skills will, in fact, fix any problems with specific skillsets being obviously preferable, yes. I... should have thought of that.


>>53635698
I don't wanna clog the thread up with my beside-the-point optional ruleset but I also wanna make sure this thing is balanced and usable.

I tallied each stat up and they're surprisingly balanced so far.

They all have a combative weakness and all have at least one trick in their RP toolkit, though some have as many as 3 and ofc any skill not labeled an RP Useful can still be made into such with the right circumstances and effort. Mind you, Diligence/Charisma and Guts/Prof share weaknesses... though this also means they share strengths. And granted that high numbers becomes more that linearly more effective as they get higher this would balance out better than you'd think. I'm guessing it'll come down to play style preference.

>>53644940
Oh, easy. That's a power with the Interference extra, give it Duration/Endless/Permanent depending on how long you want the injunction to last and the Defends and/or Useful qualities as appropriate. Here's an example (which could probably stand to have a sander taken to it):

"No you can't!" "Yes I can!" 3HD (DU; 12pts per die; 72pts)
Defends Extras & Flaws: Duration +2, Interference +3, If/Then (only against declared action) -1, If/Then (only when the actor declares that they can perform the action) -1, Power Capacity (Range) +2. Capacity: Range.
Useful Extras & Flaws: Duration +2, Interference +3, If/Then (only against declared action) -1, If/Then (only when the actor declares that they can perform the action) -1. Capacity: Range.
Effect: To activate - announce that someone cannot do something, if they declare that you are wrong and then attempt the action the power prevents them from doing so by gobbling 3 width from any attempt for the duration.

>>53646637
That seems to be right.

Interesting power, mind if I use it?

On the topic of PerOREna,

Melee (or Strike or Bash or whatever) and Gun (or Projectile or Pierce or whatever) should be added as "elements" for persona and shadow Attacks if they're going to be possible to resist or vuln them.

>>53647492
Help yourself. Tweak it however suits your purposes.

>>53644616
MaOCT isn't a dungeon crawler at all, and the end result of the Persona Module won't be one either. The dungeon aspect of the game is mostly going to wind up being "Exploring weird, otherworldly spaces" more in line with P5's Palaces vs the traditional SMT dungeons, which is good because those are tremendously boring (made playable for the fact that SMT in general has a fairly satisfying battle system).

Any good PersOREna game should have a balance between social, physical and metaphysical conflicts, so all of the Stats end up being valuable.

>>53647568
Most certainly. I didn't include those (as of yet) because the Persona games are wholly inconsistent in how they handle physical damage, so there's no standard template for how it should be handled.

By default, any Attacks quality that doesn't have an elemental effect attached to it inflicts raw Physical Damage, but adding a physical element system is as easy as saying Attacks(Bash) or Attacks(Pierce).

>>53646637
Gotta say you're really good at configuring these weird, out of the box power types. Do they crop up a lot in your game?

Want some opinions about how to structure the PersOREna module (still not sold on that name but it's a handy short-hand).

Ultimately we're going to be covering the significance of Arcana three separate times: First as it relates to Characters and NPCs; second as it relates to Personas; and third as it relates to Shadows (which will generally embody the negative qualities of the archetypal arcana).

As I see it there are two ways this can be organized:

>1. By Topic
In order words how Arcana relates to characters is in the character section; how it relates to Personas is in the Persona section, and how it relates to Shadows is in the GM section (The Velvet Room). The advantage here is that you come across the information as you're reading and learning about the module.

>2. In Summary
Arcana is its own one-stop-shopping section in the book. Whenever we mention something about Arcana we say "go to page XX for a list of how Arcana affects your relationships..."

#1 appeals to me as the writer because it helps the players better learn how to do stuff and since this module isn't going to be that big it doesn't really need an extensive referential appendix, but #2 has its advantages too.

Thoughts?

>>53649719
I like #1 better since it is easier to find what you are looking for at the moment. You can say in each topic in wich chapter you have the other descriptions of Arcana.

>>53649719
Can we do both? Like in depth descriptions in the main body, and like one or two sentences for each thrown into a little cheat sheet for quick reference?

>>53565911
Could you post stats? I'm curious how you did these, especially the sound manipulator, since that is a rather broad ability

Question: are we allowed to add powers to the flea market, or is like one specific guy in charge? Just wanted to know 'cause there's powers in this thread that I'd kinda like to see on there

>>53650523
I set up the Flea Market, but I'm not sure if there's a way to make Pastebins publicly editable, is there?

>>53650659
I honestly don't know. I'm not super familiar with pastebin. Maybe we can ask in the next thread? Cause theres always a ton of cool ideas in these things

That being said,if we do make it public, definitely keep a back up in case some one deletes it

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I made a couple pics as OPs for the next thread, Wild Talents centric since the last two were MaOCT-based.

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And the second ond

>>53651229
Awesome! Thank you for the contributions. We'll probably need them soon, looks like this threads been petering out for a while

>>53651451
Well we've got a ton done in this thread, the Persona Mod is basically in a more-or-less playable form. We just need to fill in the details now.

>>53651565
No yeah, it's definitely good work, I'm just saying we're gonna need a new thread soon is all

File: persona_3_ultimate_persona_by_vampire_marcy-d46qog3.jpg (73KB, 900x328px) Image search: [Google]

73KB, 900x328px

>>53552709
Here is my grain of salt:
>Normal rules dont let you have a Fool or World Persona at the start (but you can say fuck it and dont use this rule).
>You have your main Persona be of the same Arcana you are. This will be the Persona with the most potential of all.
>You also begin with secondary Personas that uses each one a different relationship (with their respective Arcana). 2 more Personas is a nice number but you can have as much you like whenever you have enough relationship points (the same as normal MaoCT)
>The secondary Personas can evolve into "Evolved Personas". This can be archieved with relationship points with their respective relationship. This Evolved Persona is stronger than your main and secondary ones.
>You can also gain relationships points with your party members by spending time with them and having scenes with them. With this relationship points you can gain a Party Persona that is as strong as a Secondary Persona and it is a Persona of the the Arcana as your party member.
>Party Personas can evolve (with more points than Secondary Personas) into Evolved Party Personas. This Personas are stronger than normal Evolved Personas.
>Your own Persona can evolve into an Evolved Main Persona. This Persona can only be archived only if you already have normal Evolved Personas. This one is as strong (if not a little stronger) than Evolved Party Personas. This one is from the Fool Arcana and has some special Fool Arcana abilities.
>Your Evolved Main Persona can evolve into an Ultimate Persona. This Persona is from the World Arcana, is stronger than your other Personas and has some special World Arcana abilities.

Rolled 1 (1d20)

>>53652653
Also getting rid of 2 Mayor Arcana for your main persona gives you the possibility to have a random arcana choise with a 20 sided dice.

>>53652852
Well I would be of a Magician Arcana

File: Persona and Other Childish Things (Draft).pdf (1MB, 1x1px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1x1px

Here's a compilation of everything that's been done so far. I gave it a rudimentary cover page. It shows quite nicely what still needs to be done.

>>53653046
Quality work Anon, did you throw it on the discord?

>>53653108
Done.

>>53652653
The Sub-persona system will be an optional rule-set that's been discussed a little bit. Basically it's not going to be a default because it *could* break the balance of MaOCT by having players have too many options as to what actions they can take using their Personas, but it's clearly quite flavorful to Persona and SMT specifically, hence why it will be included.

>>53653875
Yeah. I have to play test it a bit before I know how to do it right. But first I need to run some MaoCT one shots, sadly it is not a game that sells well in clubs. Then when we have more things with the arcana system and Persona system overall I will playtest it and that will be a lot more appealing. I already post my intentions of running Persona games in their groups and a lot of people loved the idea of playing in a Persona setting.

>>53653961
Great, I hope it works out for you all. Any idea what kind of setting you'd like to put together? There's so much potential for interesting stories and clever rules in a Persona universe, it's part of the reason why I wanted to coordinate this.

>>53654144
I actually run a tabletop club at my local college, I might be able to do a test game or two during our one-shot/experimental nights, but not until the semester starts up

>>53654144
I would like to make an adventure where the players descover parts of their own PCs that they didnt know. About their relationships and their own backgrounds. I would encourage character development a lot. Maybe with the some sessions being a PC-centerer (everyone does things and gets development, but one of them has a little more, the father of one is the villain in the session, a brother dies, they gain a girlfriend, important shit like that).

>>53654560
>>53654661
Rock on both of you. It warms my heart to see MaOCT and ORE in general spreading abroad.

So who's doing the next thread?

If there's no new one by tomorrow morning I (Persona coordinator anon) will throw one up around 9am EST. Keep an eye out for one of these two images >>53651229 or >>53651238