Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Necrons

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>>53535901

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>>53535901
>>53535966

>>53535989
The wording on the eternity gate is interesting. The reference to any number of infantry units and to night scythes imply that your dudes will no longer embark on a specific vehicle, instead you have a pool of dudes in reserve and can teleport in whoever you need in a specific place. Kinda neat.

>>53536082
The mololith's always done that

>>53535966
Can someone do the math for how many guass flayers it takes to destroy a land raider?

>>53535901
I think the shine on these has slightly diminished now that we literally have the full rules.

>>53535989
>Charge monolith and it can't fire even if it falls back
so useless

>>53536255
Hits on 3's wounds on 5's against a 3+ save of 16 wounds

It's all there for you to do yourself

I prefered the last iteration of RP where it was basically the WHFB ward save

>>53536231
But the night scythe hasn't. This implies that if your monolith is dead, you can bring dudes on with the night scythe instead, and possibly vice versa.

>>53536423
Night scyths could in the 5e codex.

>>53536369
About 192 shots.

>>53536369
kys

>>53536507
I can run the math for that if we had the rules for anon's toughness and noose

>>53536255
>https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/31/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-necrons/

7 shots, maybe 8...

>>53536369
It will take on average 72 shots

>>53536369

T8 is wounded on 6's by S4.

>>53536407
I think it's going back to something actually interesting and thematic again

Always preferred the idea of models literally rising back their feet after being cut down. Turning it into just another save was a boring move.

>>53536319
yes, it can, it has the fly keyword

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>>53537492
>tfw they do it each turn not only the turn they were slain
>literally impossible to kill unless you wipe the unit

>>53538508
Well yeah, all units are impossible to kill unless you kill the whole unit.

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The dakkajet gets less shots every time they update it

Also warbikes no longer have exhaust cloud

>>53538893
Well yeah, that's cause it's already fired some of its bullets before, why would it have just as many bullets before if it's already shot a bunch?

Someone go wipe all the 40k tactics pages on 1d4chan. We have to start anew.

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>>53535901
Looks like I have more warriors to glue together tonight. Looks like they're going to wreck some butthole.

>>53539806
hahahaha,no fuck that shit

>>53536504
Not 216?

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>>53535901
Pros:
>Beautiful RP change
>Tons of buffs
>Imotekh no longer a lamp with a Lord of War slot.
>Tesla actually worth a damn
>Flayers, whip coils, and Phase swords no longer garbage.
>Lords possibly worth taking
>Crypteks now come with RP buffs stock.
>Staffs can now shoot AND stab
>Tons of teleporting options that actually sound decent

Cons:
>Loss of Gauss special rule
>Flayers are just melee Deathmarks now
>No Court (Or none currently revealed)
>Obyron's port buffed, but counterblow now guarantees his death, also no way to heal his own wounds.
>Dispersion shields seem way less effective.

It's a shame about General Grevious, but all in all, This was the sort of love we needed from GW.

>>53540341
What does general grievous have to do with this?

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>>53540489
This guy right here; kinda looks like Grevious with his white paint job.

>>53540341
Additional benefit is that C'tan are somewhat useful now. Unless I read it wrong, does The Deceiver's Grand Illusion function as an immediate teleport just outside of 12" to any enemy? And that it's for any Necron unit, not just infantry?

>>53540341
>Beautiful RP change
It's a substantial nerf.

>Lords possibly worth taking
For rerolling those Ld10 tests? What?

Meanwhile, they have the worst anti tank of any faction, are the slowest faction in the game and almost every single unit got nerfed in some way.

If this is love to you, you must hate yourself pretty hard.

>>53540627
>At the beginning of the first battle round, but before the first turn begins
Kind of. It lets you reset your side of the board, potentially fucking up the strategy of your opponent.
But Yeah, I do believe it works with Monoliths and such, as NECRON appears to be a tagline, rather than a particular unit.

>>53540692
I wouldn't say so. The previous RP was just another FNP roll, and if it failed the unit would then be immediately removed. This time, RP is retroactive. As long as someone is still in the unit, they can keep rerolling RP every turn. That's really damn good.

As for Lords, yes, the morale ability sucks, but their statline is pretty decent, and if you just need an extra warscythe or two, they may be relatively cost effective.

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>>53540341
>Loss of Guass special rule
Holy shit I didn't even notice

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>>53540973
It caught me off guard too. No more glancing knights to death,

>>53540692
>Substantial Nerf
>A save you could only take once, and if failed the model was gone forever
>Better than a 5+ you can roll every turn

You are the autismo.

>>53540973
We still have -1 rend guns that always hurt them. Functionally identical, except they are more likely to kill it.

>>53540901
On the other hand, if the unit is wiped you get no roll at all. Unless you're playing someone incredibly bad, who's actually going to shoot at a Necron unit then leave it alive for multiple turns?

>>53541014
Our New Mono is almost the same price as a knight at no where near the effectiveness.

>>53541062
It's far less damaging against vehicles, now that they have so many more wounds and actually have saves.

>>53541228
ok.

>>53540341
Deathmarks don't have a Deathmark ability anymore. Just a normal deep striking sniper with S4 guns at no ap.

>>53540341
We have -1 ap for flayers now to make them much better than bolters, and with vehicles ahving wounds, that's an okay replacement for gauss.
Same can be said about the new reanimation protocols, best ones were still from 5th, but 8th is much better than 7th when it comes to what it represents.
I'm mostly bothered by lords not joining units anymore, to me that's one of the defining things in how necron armies are organized, though i know gw disagrees with me. Oh well, can't have everything i guess.
Weird though that they're pushing them in a more melee direction.

>>53541098
No more taking MSU for everything?

>>53541407
If you seriously think even a full unit of 20 warriors is staying alive 3+ turns when an enemy is trying to kill it then I really want to play against your opponents.

It's similar to the 5e rule and it'll play out like the 5e rule; i.e. the rule may as well not exist.

>>53541380
Why would you go on the internet and tell lies.

>>53541492
It's true, they can't wound a unit on 2+ any more. It sucks.

>>53541566
They still get the interception.

>>53541483

It's much better than the 7e rule given how it forces the enemy to try and focus fire infantry blobs if they don't want anything to happen. This much is obvious. Within the casual scene is it's not surprising some moron would think it is worse.

>>53541492
Not him, but he's half correct. They still have their intercept ability, but don't get their better chance to hit the guys they're intercepting.

>>53541588
Yeah, but they were pretty distinctive due to their 2+ wounding rule. Now they're still good, but it's a shame to lose that rule.

>>53541598
If you think this is better than getting an extra save VS every wound, you're going to be hit hard by reality. Units used to roll for reanimation at the end of the turn in 5th - the net result was that no unit lived more than 1 turn and the rule did nothing at all. It's exactly the same. Anyone who played any amount of competitive games with the 5e codex in 5th & 6th will tell you the same. No need to get your panties in a knot because you're bad.

On a cool note our T Stalkers give rerolls of 1's to all necrons to the thing it shot at.
all necrons... including our vehicles.

>>53541672
Now that you can't sweep there is a better chance you can use it than in 5th. Just a thought

>>53541672
Getting mortal wounds on 6's is pretty nice.

>>53541672

5e codex was played in MSU meta and 8e RP keeps happening until the end of the game for every model. It's a strictly better version compared to the 5e one, and strictly better than the 7e one as long as you don't take 5 man units. Your garage games of course might go differently because you've kept going with 5 man MSU since 5e.

So, any chance we get a return of the overlord simply jumping off his wrecked command barge, or does he go down with the ship?

Also, am I right in rules-reading that the command barge Overlord could do a fly-by and cut other flyers out of the sky?

>>53541839

Due to the nature of the barge, I'm assuming they'll get special rules that allow it to operate more like it did in 7E rather than just being a generic 8E vehicle.

>>53541839
Command barge is just an overlord with more wounds.

>read through the rules
>The C'tan melee weapon is called "Star Gods fists.

Hmmm...how hard does a C'tan punch?

>>53541832
Try to think why people went MSU in 5e and wonder why that would change.

You haven't even been able to 5 man MSU warriors since the new codex, so I guess that shows about how much you play. If you seriously think people are going to struggle to deal with 20 T4 4+ wounds, you're kidding yourself.

>>53541932
Str 7 AP -4 D 3.

>>53541932
Str7 apparently.

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I'll just put this here.

>>53536255

288 shots.

288*(2/3)*(1/6)*(1/2)=16
Save is (1/2) instead of (1/3) because ap -1

Was previously 36.

>>53541952

Yes, obviously. If you want to kill a 240 point warrior blob you'll have to commit 780 points of scatter laser bikers for instance. It's then likely, but not guaranteed.

>>53542179
You do only have to kill 15 before it auto kills itself with battleshock.

>>53542165

Land Raiders have 2+ saves. You'll need over 400 shots.

But bolters need over 800. Anything with S5-7 and no AP modifiers needs as many shots as gauss flayers. Gauss blasters need "just" 144 shots. Autocannon Havocs need 108.

>>53542059
>Too big to enter

That's the first time that sentence has ever been heard on The Rock.

>>53540341
Is there a collection of all the necron leaks?

>>53542261

Oh, whoops. Someone said it was 3+ and I didnt bother checking.

>>53542334

My Will Be done boosted Heavy Destroyers could do it in 8 shots. This highlights the importance of dedicated anti-tank.

>>53542333
>>53532278
In the Xenos 1 PDF

>>53542365
Thanks m8

Speaking of antitank I'm gonna miss the days of warscythe can openers the most. Now I have pretty much no reason to run my 5 man warscythe lychguard.

What with S5 and S7 wounding T4 on 3's and that extra point of ap and extra point of damage not really being worth it over a 4++

>>53542497
Take it in the spirit it's intended, but outside of melee anti-tank I never understood Lychguard. Praetorians are faster, have range, can deep strike, and were part of a decent formation. Wraiths are more durable especially with Canoptek Harvest, and also far more mobile.

Lychguard seemed like overcompensation that somehow you needed more unkillable robots than Necrons already were.

>>53542626
They're meant to be a bodyguard for overlords.

>>53542672
I just put mine in a barge and flew him into people, shouting racial epithets 65 million years out of date. He was still more protected on average.

>>53542672

Then you'd take the shield variant which won't open cans.

>>53542717
Personally I just liked dropping 5 of them with a solar staff cryptek next to a squad of centurions.

>>53542352
Death Ray of the croissant is now pretty good at that, could probably bust open a lr in 3 shots

>>53542754

Derpstriking units next to centurions is safer now at least.

6 lychguards with warscythes charging a dread will fuck it up before it strikes back but it will take a while to kill a Land Raider with them because of S7.

>>53536369
If >>53537197 is right then it takes 432 shots.
If it wounds on 5s, then 216 shots.

4/6 chance to hit (3+), 2/6 chance to wound (5+), 2/6 chance to fail save (3+). These three multiplied together gets you your average wounds per shot. Wounds to kill divided by wounds per shot equals shots to kill.

16 / (4/6 * 2/6 * 2/6) = 216

Same, but with 1/6 chance to wound (6+).
16 / (4/6 * 1/6 * 2/6) = 432

>>53543624
Might have to go more Immortal heavy, S5 and -2 AP for a balance against armor and infantry. If against more Hord army the about of shots from the warriors may be better.

>>53544471
Scarabs may not be a bad choice either seeing as they always wound on a 5+.

>>53544561
Tomb Blades are still one of the best things in this codex.
>4 Tesla shots per model
Fuck Yar.

>>53540627
From the leaks, can anyone tell me why bother picking a Transcendant C'Tan over the nightbringer or deceiver?

>>53544603
He removes cover bonuses from enemy models within 6".

>>53544596
They're expensive now though. 42 points a model.

>>53544681
Guess We'll have to see if that cover save is really that good that it equates to redeploying up to four units in your opponent's face for alpha strike.

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This isn't looking good for Necrons. Before warriors were a sort of catch all, not especially strong at anything but resilient and could take down things with enough firepower eventually. But now it's bad. It used to take 27 shots to take down a rhino but now it takes 90. More than triple the shots and that's just for the basic rhino. Massive amounts of small arms fire used to be the core of Necrons, and while it might be marginally better against infantry the tradeoff against high toughness models is insane. We only have 11 shooting weapons capable of inflicting multiple wounds. Three of them are found on found on a triarch stalker and one of them is the one use tachyon arrow. Time to stock up on destroyers I guess.

Tell me there's hope.

>>53544751
Probably not, but that's more on the deceiver being really strong.

>>53544806
Rhinos are also 70 points now, so it's worse but not as bad.

>>53544839
Sure but that's just the rhino. I know it got a decent increase in points, but how are we supposed to destroy a land raider?

>>53545003
I mean a land raider is also 350 points, so an equivalent amount of our anti tank still hurts it.

>>53545064
Not really. Our equivalent amount of anti tank before would have been 36 Gauss shots. Obviously that would be way to powerful now, but it now taking over 400 like >>53542261 is ridiculous in its own right. What if they had done something like on a roll of 6 to wound against something with the Vehicle trait, it instead inflicts d3 mortal wounds. or maybe something like it inflicts one additional automatic mortal wound, but you still roll for the armor save.

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Why do Immortals cost less than Warriors?

>>53545317
flayers are free but blasters/carbines cost points and are a mandatory upgrade that aren't factored into their base point cost.

>>53544806

>Tell me there's hope

Acanthrites have Melta weapons, sentry pylons have a giant-ass Melta cannon or a twin death ray. The tomb stalker is bound to be faster now and might be decent at vehicle smashing, and his brother the tomb sentinel has a giant version of the Wraith's exile ray.

Also the Pylon may well be our one genuinely good Lord of War.

Save us Forge World!

>>53545230
We do actually have anti tank options you know? We just have to deal with them the same way we did MC's.

>>53545317
Immortals have to pay for weapons.

>>53545380
We had a lascannon and then some inconsistent blast templates. We never had specialized anti tank. But that was our thing, we didn't need it. We can get away with not having melta guns when our basic troops can grind though armor. Now our warriors are significantly less capable of dealing with armor/high toughness, and we didn't get that made up elsewhere. Instead all we got was a marginally better bolter.

>>53545378

Just gonna point this out again: Acanthrites. Basically Melta-Wraiths with stealth instead of an invul.

>>53544806
The rhino doubled in price too? Maybe don't rely on line troops to kill all vehicles and stop ignoring the character based buffs?

This isn't a new codex for seventh, the game is going to play totally differently. Why does everyone constantly treat every book like it's still the same edition?

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>>53545551
>We had a lascannon and then some inconsistent blast templates. We never had specialized anti tank.

>We had a lascannon
>We never had specialized anti tank

>>53545551
And now blast templates are multi shot weapons.

>>53545622

Lascannons weren't really anti-tank anymore in 7th. More like a slightly inefficient way to guarantee one wound where you needed it most.

Destroyer Cult heavy destroyers were fucking amazing with their reroll to wounds and pens though.

>>53545656
>Lascannons weren't really anti-tank anymore in 7th. More like a slightly inefficient way to guarantee one wound where you needed it most.

The word never lose its meaning at some point? 7th was a garbage edition for garbage people. This is a different game and lascanons seem pretty legit as anti tank now considering all the tanks doubled in price and the number of shots it requires didn't change much in most cases.

>Destroyer Cult heavy destroyers were fucking amazing with their reroll to wounds and pens though.

I think the rein of swarms of d packing large vehicles is defacto over in this edition so the REQUIREMENT of having swarms of melta is over.

A necron warrior in ruin cover has what? A 1+ save? 20 of those with reanimation protocols is going to require mellee to remove. Necrons are about being almost impossible to kill now, rather than the army of 'please roll six".

>>53540622
>Implying trazyn isn't space general grievous
"Your power sword will make a fine addition to my collection!"

>>53545703
Cover only gives +1 regardless of what it is.

>>53545703

>Necrons are about being almost impossible to kill now
>Lost their rule that made them the kings of durability

8th edition Necrons are about "please don't focus fire my unit, I want to actually be able to make a reanimation roll this turn".

>>53535989
>van shoot particle whip and flux arc at the same time
>particle whip fires 6 shots instead of D6
>6 hits from gauss and 3 hits from whip average
>leman russ tougness with more wounds

>>53545622
Oh don't play fucking coy. We had to pay 50 points for a 36 inch lascannon. You know what I meant by that. What we don't really get are special weapons. We didn't get flamers for hordes we got 20 gauss shots for a bunch of dead models. We didn't get plasmas for elites, we got 20 guass shots to force armor saves. We didn't get meltas for vehicles, we got 20 gauss shots and hope we roll enough 6's to glance it to death.

Yes it's a new edition and we have yet to fully see how things will play out, but even then, in regards to high toughness models, our 20 Gauss shots are nowhere near as impactful as they once wore.

>>53545790
>2+ in cover unit with possible t5, 20 models strong, with the last few models sitting behind impassable terrain in case they couldnt kill them all at once
>320 bolter shots required for 50% chance to kill it in a turn

>8th edition Necrons are about "please don't focus fire my unit, I want to actually be able to make a reanimation roll this turn".

I'm not sure you actually know what the edition is about. Outside of melee it's going to take a ludicrous amount of concentrated fire to kill one of these in a turn.

>>53545859
381 points though, so it's not as high impact as it sounds.

>>53545885
>Yes it's a new edition and we have yet to fully see how things will play out, but even then, in regards to high toughness models, our 20 Gauss shots are nowhere near as impactful as they once wore.

And those models are more expensive and less capable themselves. That knight is putting out half the damage it used to.

>>53545911
Warriors have a 4+ save, where are you getting a 2+ in cover from?

>>53545911

>Maximised niche case including a lucky roll from a special character's ability and hiding models from view whilst camping a ruin

Yes well done, meanwhile besides your little objective camper unit there the rest of the infantry is basically just space marines that might come back if they aren't killed hard enough.

>>53545925
toughness is also referring things that will have toughness now, like the vehicles.

>>53541825
Not just a mortal wound but at mortal wound + the normal wound
>in addition to
good times

>>53546028
Although that's just what every sniper gets now.

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Heat Ray or heavy Gauss Cannon?

>>53545973
Cool, and you just wasted your entire armies firepower to hit one troops choice. I am going to win against that level of tactical genius.

>>53545940
>Warriors have a 4+ save, where are you getting a 2+ in cover from?

Derp, thought they had a 3+. Doesn't change the math that heavily, you need 16% fewer shots to kill the entire unit but its still an outlandishly large number to summon in a single turn.

>>53545983
>toughness is also referring things that will have toughness now, like the vehicles.

Cool, that leman russ is putting out half the damage it used too.

>>53544806
>not having fuckloads of destroyers already

What the fuck is wrong with you?

>>53546158
Gauss imo, that extra range is pretty handy and you really don't want the stalker in melee range if you can avoid it.

>>53544681
Expensive but so damn fast.
Run with a high enough mob and if they ever get hit hard run them to the nearest cryptech for some sweet sweet rez boni.

Shit is going to be fun with units flying around.

>>53546448
They're certainly a good choice, but not autotake like they were before.

>>53546158
Heat Ray! All that Hype for turn 1 charges going off is real. That Flamer might help them do something before 80+ melee attacks rape them.

>>53546537
A flamer won't do much as they don't need to charge it to get into melee.

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>>53536255
>Can someone do the math for how many guass flayers it takes to destroy a land raider?
I asked a guy I know. He says 3.

Question:
With vehicle facing gone can the Monoilth/Obelisk fire all of its weapons on one target?
20 S7 Tesla on one target would be a nice buff...

>>53542059
>primaris are too big
>primarchs are just fine

>>53547224
Pretty sure they can.

>>53538643
Necrons regenerate all the models you killed previously though so if you kill 19 out of 20 warriors and that one lone warrior goes hiding somewhere where you can't shoot it he can make the whole squad go back to 20

So, semi-rhetorical question: with as much stuff that can deep strike and also fly, and mishaps seemingly gone entirely, can monoliths land geographically 6" away from units if they can also manage to stay 6" above the battlefield on ruins/scenery?

I heard someone mention it, it doesn't seem right, but I haven't seen enough rules to definitively point at to say it's wrong.

>>53546158

Heat ray is better only if you expect to be on anti-infantry duty. Heavy Gauss does more damage against T8+ than Heat Ray even at melta range.

>>53550723
That will absically never happen in a way that will be relevant. The ideal situation for this seems to be a huge horde of warriors. Which might be viable now that you can split shots from a unit.

>>53550979
>That will absically never happen in a way that will be relevant.
Not that Anon or a necron player but after reading through their rules warriors near a ghost arc and cryptek have a 4+ RP rerolling if they want.

>>53536255
60-80 depending on rolls

Overall happy with the changes, though getting proper anti-tank will be a bit of puzzle now.

IMHO, the great loser here is the Annihilation Barge. This thing is 200% useless now, the Tesla Destructor is so unfit for v8 that it physically hurts just by looking at the statline.

And the great winners are Tesla Immortals. With an Overlord nearby, they can throw insane firepower in 29" radius.

Ghost ark ability to make RP rolls in the movement phase, is this a seperate roll on it's own? Ie the necron player would now be making 2 RP rolls per turn for dead models around a Ghost ark?

>>53551835
That's exactly what it says, yes.

So, here's my entirely objective unit tier list supported by extensive playtesting and tons of data, that you should totally trust and agree with.

>God Tier
Tesla Immortals
Overlord (Including named ones)
Cryptek (Including named ones)

>Elite Tier
Gauss Immortals
Destroyers
Heavy Destroyers
Praetorians
Stalker

>Good Tier
Warriors
Ghost Ark
Deceiver
Deathmarks
Destroyer Lord
Doom Scythe
Doomsday Ark

>Okay Tier
Command Barge
Wraith
Flayed Ones
Night Scythe
Spyder
Tomb Blades

>Meh Tier
Nightbringer
Scarabs
Lychguard
Monolith

>Someone was paid to design this tier
Annihilation Barge
Transcendant C'Tan
Tesseract Vault
Obelisk

>>53552039
Forgot the Lord and Obyron, both of whom should hover around Meh Tier.

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>>53551838
I was hoping they would distance themselves from decurion style boring shit

>>53552184
You were hoping that the space undead faction lead by magitek necromancers would distance itself from its ressurection gimmick?

>>53552243
No. Rp is fine, but basing the entire army around improving RP or rerolling it, or getting more rolls for it makes for boring as fuck gameplay. Decurion was the worst to play against just due to how fucking boring it was

>>53552259
I don't know. At least now you have to work for those improvement, by positionning your support units right, as opposed to simply getting a huge buff for building your army in a specific order. Which I find great, the lack of support units in 40K (besides psykers) has always bummed me.

>>53540341
>>53540973

>Loss of Gauss special rule


Don't all weapons wound on a 6+ if you couldn't normally?

Also do we have to now pay for weapons?

like as in do I have to pay 43 points for a Destroyer then another 20 for the cannon?

Also apart from the Spyder being way worse now, I'm super keen for necrons in 8th

also Quantum Shielding is fucking dope now.

>>53552039

Yeah I'm just gonna fix that for you

>God Tier
Tesla Immortals
Overlord (Including named ones)
Cryptek (Including named ones)

>Elite Tier
Gauss Immortals
Destroyers
Heavy Destroyers
Praetorians
Stalker

>Good Tier
Warriors
Ghost Ark
Deceiver
Deathmarks
Destroyer Lord
Doom Scythe
Doomsday Ark
Wraith

>Okay Tier
Scarabs
Command Barge
Night Scythe

Monolith

>Meh Tier
Spyder
Flayed Ones
Lychguard
Tomb Blades
>Someone was paid to design this tier
Nightbringer
Annihilation Barge
Transcendant C'Tan
Tesseract Vault
Obelisk
C'tan powers
C'tan powers
C'tan powers
C'tan powers
C'tan powers
C'tan powers

>>53550801
Absolutely not. 6" up and 6" away means that you are only ~8.485" from the enemy. Go further.

>>53552409
>Don't all weapons wound on a 6+ if you couldn't normally?
Yes, but vehicles have armour saves and at least thrice as many wounds as they had hull points, so you need a ton more shots than before to kill vehicles with infantry weapons.

>Also do we have to now pay for weapons?
Yes. But most weapons costs 0, only gear that are an option somewhere have a price tag. For example, Warriors are the only Gauss flayer users, so the gun costs 0 and its price is included in the Warrior's. But Immortals can choose between two guns, so they have to pay for them (and the weapon-less Immortal is cheaper than a Warrior to account for this). The result is basically the same as before.

>like as in do I have to pay 43 points for a Destroyer then another 20 for the cannon?
Yes, as precised at the top of the point table.

>Also apart from the Spyder being way worse now, I'm super keen for necrons in 8th
Naked spyders are worse but their options got a lot better IMHO.

>also Quantum Shielding is fucking dope now.
Depends on the enemy. Quantum Shielding will be fucking awesome against knights, imperial heavy weapons and meltagun. They are complete crap against saturation fire (like other necrons or autocannons).

>>53552506
>Naked spyders are worse but their options got a lot better IMHO.

They are default worse, can't expand a unit of scrabs and take d3 wounds on a 1 instead of 1 wound.

Shits bad.

>Yes, but vehicles have armour saves and at least thrice as many wounds as they had hull points, so you need a ton more shots than before to kill vehicles with infantry weapons.

So its exactly the same as what Gauss was/would have been in 8th

>>53535989
>playing against crons
>opponent starts his deployment by throwing his monolith up in the air

>>53552534
If it kept its flavour, Gauss would have been changed to "6s to wound inflict a Mortal Wound in addition to the regular wound", like Haywire did. Instead it was changed to above average AP, which is nice too but rather different in application.

>>53552569
>6s to wound inflict a Mortal Wound in addition to the regular wound

That would have been fucking broken.

Took a gander at the leaked indexes. My Necrons can now include a shitload of Crypteks and it's actually worth taking many of them for the buffs. Can now turn my meager 1K force into a 1800 force from dope HQs.

>tfw my entire army will have 4+ RP and Crypteks are tough enough with living metal to survive.

Illuminor Szeras wasn't sold out this morning REEE

>>53552593
Yeah? Gauss has been fucking broken since Hull Points appeared. No one will cry for it.

I just wish that necrons could have decent AT specialists now that they need them. Tesla destructors are dead, high S/AP weaponry is paid at luxury rates and the best options are FW (so, not available yet).

>>53552646
>>53552646
Since hull points appeared?

I guess you never played in the glory days of 3.5/4. 3 to hit, 6 to glance, 6 to destroy any vehicle.

>>53552668
I didn't indeed. Though 6 to destroy is still worse on average than needing 3/4 glances and vehicles were fucking paper back then anyway (4+ to destroy.on pen? have fun).

>>53552710
I don't know, wiping out landraiders in a single volley felt cheesetastic.

At least back then we had Phase Out to compensate for it - even if Phase Out was a terrible mechanic.

>>53552761
I'm sure it did.

Back on the current times, I'm starting to wonder if we even need tank specialists. Necron can still put enough saturation fire with Immortals, Destroyers and Tomb Blades to hurt everything decently, while the heavy duty units are pidgeonholed into AT and not even that good at it.

Like, 3 heavy destroyers are somewhat better at killing heavy vehicles than 5 destroyers, but not overwhelmingly so and they are so much worse against everything else.

>>53552646

Necron antitank is OK, heavy destroyers (without buffs from overlords) are more point efficient than Godhammers and comparable to laspreds and ravagers, especially against Knight/Russ/Land Raider type targets. Devastators and Guard HWT's are more point efficient firepower but more fragile and get penalties for moving and shooting.

>>53552668

4th edition removed that
And in 3rd, it was actually harder for necrons to kill a land raider then it was in 7th

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Full Primaris army or Ad Mech?

>>53553815
Primaris.

>>53553839
<3

>>53546158
Gauss.

The anti-armor is nice but the stalker's real purpose is making your army BS 2+

http://www.strawpoll.me/13087891

Vote please

>>53555907
>8th
>was
Did you ever try to stop being a faggot?

Supposing there are updates that happen eventually, what do you hope they add, or change?

I will always insist on getting Pariahs back. I want psyker area denial, or at least some deny the witch rolls that don't come from a spider. I'd love Gauss' return, but I'd settle for Scarabs eroding vehicle armor saves kind of like they used to.

>>53556113
I'd like gauss back, or at least some sort of good AV unit to make up for it.

I've also wanted a C'tan HQ for a very long time.

No Vehicle facing is still a little hard justify with the Doomsday Ark.

Odd to think of a Doomsday Ark which Must stay still to fire at full load spins and fires the TWO 5 gauss banks at the same target if it is in range.

>>53552442
So immortals are back to being better with tesla this edition?

>>53544806
The hope is, is that everyone else sucks just as much as you do.

>>53556437
The Gauss blaster is very strong. The Tesla carbine just happens to have a monster combo with the Overlord's +1 to hit roll, since the tesla triple hit effect is now on 6s AFTER modifiers. Also, the Tesla carbine is pretty good even without that.

>>53545710
It's treason then?

>>53556437
With an overlord adding +1 to hit your are popping Tesla rule on 5+.

Yeah they are good.

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dakkadakka doing what dakkadakka does best.

I'm sure the 'My will be done' and tesla interaction will be faq'ed

>>53556858
This is Points cost per wound inflected.

Does anyone know if Tesla pops on overwatch again like in 6th?

>>53556858
Awesome!
tl;dr: Telsamortals and destroyers are really good, vehicles really aren't.

>>53557047
you have to take into account that with Living Metal and Q Shields make vehicles better than the raw numbers show for that.

Against high strength d6 wounds shots show that a Doomsday Ark will last far longer than the big ass Monolith. Q Shields are dope and will make Knight Army cry.

Reposting from the general, I didn't noticed this thread was still up.

Necron brothers, what do you think about the Triarch Stalker ? Heat Ray and play aggressively close, or Twin heavy gauss cannon to play it safe from afar ?
I still don't have one, and was thinking about picking the SC! box to get one with more warriors.

>>53558521
Heat ray if you are supporting the foot sloggers and THGC if you are using it to support some Doomsday Arks and the like to pop the high wound things that I know every army would like to try out at least once!

>>53558725
Yup, I've missed some posts since returning from work, it seems the logical conclusion. Thanks Anon!

>>53558496
Inversely, Q shields will be hot garbage against some armies (necrons, orks, autocannon heavy IG).

Still, they're pretty nice. The problem with vehicles is more in the weaponry and price. The Tesla Destructor lost everything that made it cool and the other guns are very random AT weapons on very pricey platform.

The only vehicles that look strong to me are the Stalker (actually pretty tough, nice rules, nice guns) and the Night Scythe (Invasion Beams are fucking OP).

>>53556858
are there more 8e breakdowns like that? are they on the forums?

>>53558787
With quantum shielding, it might be intresting to ram a command barge with warscythe into a knight with a reaper sword to get that sweet 5/6 chance to ignore damage.

>>53560323
Then they'll just step on you with their twelve stomps

>>53560323
Do knights actually lose their shooting attack when they get walk out of combat?

Because if so I see the strategy of charging them with quantum chariots and wraiths hilarious.

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>>53560393

No, they can shoot just fine.

>>53541598
You're a fucking idiot.

>>53541832
>I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about the post.

>>53556858
Looks like the winners here are immortals, doom scythes, and triarch stalkers. All of then have decent scores across the board and the immortals and stalkers have synergy.

>>53558521
Heat Ray looks the best to me, as it has similar damage against heavies and is nuch better againsy hordes. Providing anti-horde support while giving rerolls seems the best use.

>>53563517
Is it even worth magnetizing my stalker? I'm almost done painting my warriors/overlords/immortals cryptek and stuff but I haven't ever actually played 40k yet.

Is it unsportsmanlike to show up with both gun options and two lists and switch to the THGC if my opponent has lots of vehicles? Not saying I'd do this but I just don't know if it's dick move or if that is standard

>>53563679
You would have to leave a few points (10 I think) unused in your list.

If it is any torny you can not change anything once you provide you list at the start.

>>53558521
Why does no one ever consider the particle shredder? Heavy 6 S7 AP-1 D d3 sounds pretty good if the meta is going to be Eldar, DE and nids. Am I missing something here?

>>53546158
I love heat rays, but gotta vote for the gauss

>>53535901

It makes me unreasonably upset that Gauss weapons no longer have any kind of a special rule attached to them.

Necrons to me were defined by two (2) things: We'll Be Back, and gauss guns being able to just blow up superheavies. The fact that the latter is gone makes me mad as fuck, even though the former got better than ever.

>>53564991

I agree with you, it does seem like a strange over sight. I hope atleast in the story/lore gauss weaponry is still as potent. I do think the we'll be back rules in this edition are very cool. Maybe it's not as good as a save in 7th (I've no idea) but that was bland as shit and not why I got into necrons.

I always remmember the battle report against sisters of battle in white dwarf with a destroyer being killed and the pilot coming back to life and continuing to battle, I thought that was the coolest shit.

By the way, any word on what a res orb does now?

>>53564991
i think the intent was to prevent you from spamming warriors

>>53565163
>By the way, any word on what a res orb does now?

Yeah, it's shit now.

>>53565210

But I WANT to spam warriors. Spamming warriors is FUN.

>>53565403
>Yeah, it's shit now.
>Now
nigger that shit has been shit since 7th came out, but what's the deal with it in 8th?

>>53565439

The scan I saw has been removed and I don't remember the specifics, but it was something to the effect that you can once per game reroll a RP check in a radius or something. It seemed like a really minor thing, way worse than just making the checks lower difficulty.

>>53565163
Once per battle, after you've made your Reanimation protocol rolls, you can make another roll for units within 3".

>>53565532
>tfw they will never just copy it from DoW1 and just let it be a once per game autopass ALL RP around it.

>>53565590
holy fuck that would be so fun

>>53565640
That would be super bullshit as well. Especially when you can take multiple orbs.

>>53565640
it wouldn't even be OP because it wouldn't have any value until the very end of a game and even then your oponent knows you have it so it's their fault for not focusing down your units.

>>53565684
or they could just make it a one only item like the orb of eternity.

>>53564928
Not amazing against the blob of wounds vehicles, not good against hordes. This is 8E, you are usually facing one of those two.

Points depending, I might take The Deceiver for every large battle. The troll capabilities seem amazing.

Move a monolith just outside of 12" from enemies, pop out a blob of 20 warriors out first turn and right in that meaty rapid fire range. With vehicle facing gone as well, I think you can just fire whatever monolith weapons wherever you please. Nuts to you Space Marines, I have my own drop pod of sacrificial troops.

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>>53565163
I think it's worse than the 7th one.

Which wasn't even that good.

>>53566958
It's good, but for 35 points the ghost ark already does the job better.

>mfw I have Anrakyr, Tzeras and the start collecting necron stuff
I may not have many warriors, but by god are they going to be buffed.

>>53569239
There's the warrior ark phalanx bundle, which gives you a bunch more warriors and a Ghost Ark to keep them in the fight. At 14 wounds the ark is pretty survivable this time around. Add in a spider for repairs at some point and you've got a solid force.

>>53569391
The spyder doesn't look anywhere near as good as it used to.

>>53569391
not that guy but have pretty much same thing going on as him. I'm painting 20 warriors and was secretly hoping they would suck for 8th because I hate their sprues and I don't want to make 40 more of them.

I've got all the leaks but I'm new, are the destroyers more hype than heavies? or are they both good and heavies strictly for anti-tank? thinking those will be next units I get.

>>53569471
Destroyers are a bit of a meta choice as they only excel against heavy multi wound infantry. Heavy destroyers are going to be really important for anti tank though.

>>53569470
No argument here, but it looks like a decent enough dedicated repair bot to supplement the already decent living metal rule.

I'm going to miss my giant scarab swarm armies though.

>>53569542
I feel like just using those points towards another ghost ark would be a better investment. Especially as necrons are going to be focused fired hard.

>>53569471
Destroyers are still decent MEQ killers, or for entrenched infantry. Their fly trait and movement speed give them the mobility to harass that most of the army lacks.

Heavy destroyers are now your almost necessary anti-tank, since in my experience Triarch Stalkers are a massive fire magnet. Everything is good, but I can't say how the new rules will treat how people react to them. All I know is the heavy conversion kit bits are ridiculously priced.

>>53569590
yea i just started searching for em and oh fug$$

>>53569601
I cheated somewhat, got the tesla cannons from the annihilation barge and popped those on instead. They're about the same size as you'd need, and probably a lot cheaper from bits reseller places.

The thing you guys are forgetting about the barge is that it's CHEAP. It's like 150 points for a quantum shielded unit that does more MEQ damage at 24 inches than a 10 man squad of warriors. 30 more points for speed and durability is nice.

>>53548957
That's the real reason Lionel Johnson hasn't been seen since the heresy. He's stuck inside, and is too big to get out

Where can I find the exact rules on summoning?

Does reviving Necrons cost points er nah?

>>53569678
Only making new units costs points.

>>53569678
Nope, summoning deals with new units being brought to the field. Reanimation protocols deals with returning individual models and is it's own thing.

Looking at the leaked rules the one thing that i'm the most happy about is that we've escaped the 'trademarkable renaming' that is blighting alot of GWs products these day.

>>53569650
Waiting for the day they slip up somehow with their wording and I pop Szeras into an ark and flit him about. Synergized healing while he upgrades, and maybe the occasional Eldritch Lance shot.

>>53535901
So with the changes to gauss, are Necrons now canonically and mechanically the superior shooting faction?

I know Tau focus on higher strength and range but the new edition heavily favors AP and Necrons are much stronger in that regard.

>>53569785
We're definitely going to be up there, seeing as BS2+ rerollable is easy to obtain.

>ghost ark not open topped
>Only T6
>Capacity still 10
> Warrior min unit size 10
Fucking what

>>53569650
Alternatively, you could have a full squad of tesla immortals for 20 points more, which has twice the firepower and can be buffed hard.

However, the AnniBarge does have the advantage of being deceptively tough. No degeneration, a good wound/leadership ratio that makes it practically immune to battleshock and, with Quantum Shielding + cover bonus, it's a bitch to shoot at. Out of cover though, it's going down to autocannons like a little bitch.

>>53571137
Battleshock is casualties not wounds.

>>53571155
Right. So it's actually immune to battleshock.

>>53546085
Not every sniper gets an easy way to +1 to hit and get mortal wounds on a 5+.

>>53571457
Indeed. Deathmarks don't, for example. They can't get +1 to wound, which is what you need to headshot on 5+.

>MFW only 3 powers of the c'tan
>MFW Ascended c'tan isnt a beast of death anymore
>MFW D3 wounds when dead sometimes.

>>53571509
Transcendent hasn't been a beast for a while now.

>>53571475
Shit you are right.

>>53571509
On the plus side though C'tan are characters and can hide behind warriors

And all the c'tan powers deal mortal wounds

>>53552540
https://youtu.be/7dl0OtWqCa0?t=28
THEY WERE TELLING THE TRUTH

So /tg/ I've been debating between my Overlord or a CCB. I've heard some people say the CCB is shit. Thoughts?

>>53577042
I think it depends on the rest of your list, but QS in 8th seems pretty amazing so depending on the actual points cost it might or might not be worth it in 8th.

>>53571475
Damn that would have been a sweat combo

>>53535966
Wow, they just keep nerfing Gauss Cannons into the fucking dirt, don't they?

>>53557039
Nothing says it doesn't, so... yeah

>>53574130
Does that mean it goes trough every kind of save or armor?

If a warrior or whatever buggers off due to a failed morale check, can he get reanimated? The morale rules say "remove from play" and the RP rules say "slain models."

I hope so, even though it wouldn't really make sense. Mostly because I don't wanna keep track of separate casualty groups for each and every RP unit. Seems like a chore.

>>53579197
I think the morale wording says that they're treated as though they were slain models, so you're good there. I know I'll be treating it as such.

>>53579224
I'm looking at the totally legitimate photos of the new books that ended up on my hard drive completely by accident, and it says this:

"In the Morale phase, starting with the player whose turn it is, players must take Morale tests for units from their army that have had models slain during the turn.

To take a Morale test, roll a dice and add the number of models from the unit that have been slain this turn. If the result of the morale test exceeds the highest leadership characteristic in the unit, the test is failed. For each point that the test is failed by, one model in that unit must flee and is removed from play. You choose which models flee from the units you command."

I don't see nuthin' about treating them as slain. I think it might say that in the Sigmar rules? Is the definition of "slain" and "removed from play" clarified somewhere that I missed?

>>53579224
>>53579374

Fuck this shit doesn't even make sense for necrons.
Necron Warriors are mindless automatons they don't get scared and flee, that's not their deal.

>>53579822
P H A S E O U T
H
A
S
E
O
U
T

>>53579822
Unconscious robot warriors are easily spooked.

>>53579822

Presumably why they are LD 10.

Anyway: It's not just about fear. It's also about other reasons that could cause the unit to lose troops.

Like say, Phase Out.

>>53556858
Do you have the raw version of this so I can use the formula on other races?

>>53580064
That was after the entire army was down to 25% and that makes sense, it's the guys in charge saying "We lost EVERYONE pull back and regroup"
1 or 2 warriors just randomly running away is nonsensical.

It;s just me or Seraz looks freaking amazing?

Am I correct in interpreting that the character shooting target protection rule applies to C'tan shards? Or is there a clause for monsters somewhere that I missed?

>>53577750
What did you expect it to be?

>>53582224
Not him but I just expected it to actually exist as a game concept to begin with

>>53582610
It was pretty inevitable it was going to disappear with the changes.

>>53580618

Again, it's supposed to be representative, not just "running away in fear". Which happened in every other edition anyway that warriors could flee so why now are you raging about it?

>>53580618

Necrons haven't been immune to morale for quite a while, just resistant.

>>53582705
As mentioned, it could just become a mortal wound on 6 on vehicles, or add an additional mortal wound on 6 on vehicles, or lower armor saves by 1 per 6 to represent armor being vaporized. It could be a number of things, but now it is nothing but a slightly better bolter

>>53582969

I find it kinda funny that basically everyone so far has been going 'No but MY faction should be immune to morale stuff' from marines with ATSKNF being only a reroll to necrons to Skittari.

>>53583016

They want vehicles to actually be tough this edition. You are still better at taking out vehicles than most basic weapons.

I mean, it takes multiple meltaguns to take out even light vehicles now and those weapons exist purely to murderfuck vehicles.

>>53583035
That's what happens when everyone and their mother has morale immunity in one edition. Now, only the armies that get strong protection from battleshock are the ones that truly need it (i.e. mass armies).

>>53583035
Well maybe GW shouldn't have made it so that fucking morale is a completely nonsensical thing in 40k for everything but like 4 out of the million factions

>>53583016
There's no reason for it to be better against vehicles than anything else. I'm fine with just having extra armor pen over a mechanic that just adds extra busywork.

>>53583035
It's an issue of the fluff power levels being too high for their own good. On the one hand, you're right. On the other hand, space marines physically can't feel fear anymore, and necron warriors are literally unconscious. Neither should be "running away" ever.

>>53583237

I think that's why they added more options than just 'They ran away'. Stuff like recovering the wounded (As not everyone taken out is actually dead) for Marines or suffering psychic shock from the death of allies (For Eldar and GSC).

>>53583681
True enough, but they still went and called it "morale" after all, so people are justified in the confusion, I think. Sigmar's "battleshock" makes more sense, even if it's a dumber word.

>>53583180
Not advocating its return, just saying what it could be if they brought it back. Obviously I haven't played anyone with the new rules, so I can't say if they really need Gauss this time around.

On a conceptual level I'm going to miss it. I still miss pariahs.

>>53583880

I think the idea was for dedicated anti-tank weapons to be the name of the game. Necrons are better than most but even they want to bring in the anti-tank guns when fighting vehicles.

>>53584090
Not necessarily though. Immortals, Tomb Blades and Destroyers can kill most vehicles decently fast, as long as they don't have 2+ save.

>>53584155

Yeah, as I said 'Better than most'. You just can't expect basic warriors to wander up the board 1-rounding tanks like in previous editions.

Which I'm kinda ok with. Tanks have, for the longest time, been so damn fragile.

Necron Characters(Lord, Overlord, Cryptek and etc) now seems to be pretty fragile when compared to the past.

Living Metal isn't bad but I don't think it conveys well necron durability to characters.

>>53586230
That's just a consequence of losing 4+++ rerolling one's.

>>53586230
Overlords are tougher than most, about equivalent to a SM Captain on bike. Lords and Crypteks are a bit fragile but not more than before (losing Undying but havin thrice the wounds). Destroyer Lords are actually tougher than before, since they a 4++ now.

>>53590083

Seriosly condisering a destroyer army

Wait, AP is a minus now?

So terminators would take a 4+ save from being hit by an AP-2 weapon?

>>53590322
Yes. That was confirmed, like, one month ago.

>>53556342
It just kinda flings its projectile out of the barrel while it spins, thats how it works.

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Question, can anyone explain how rapid fire 5 works? Does it mean you add 5 more attacks when at half distance, or you multiply your number of shots by 5?

>>53590641
Rapid Fire X is X shots at max range and 2X shots at short range.

>>53590650
So a ghost ark would 5 fire shots at 24" and 10 shots at 12"?

>>53590712
Per Gauss Flayer Array, yes. There's two of them on a Ghost Ark and, since firing arcs disappeared, they can fire on the same target.

>>53590726
Bomb fucking diggity.

>>53590726
Followup, if a skill says heavy X or rapid fire X, does that mean you make X many attacks, or your rolls are reduced by X

>>53590820
Heavy X is the number of attacks you shoot. Rapid Fire X is the number of attacks you shoot, but is doubled at half range. Etc, etc

The only time you need to worry about your BS changing is if;

1. You move and shoot with a heavy weapon (-1 to BS)
2. You advance and shoot with an assault weapon (-1 to BS)

So for a 1k army, with the new rules, what do you think is better, 10 man warrior units in a ghost ark, or 10 man units with crypteks?

>>53590712
It would fire 10 at 24" and 20 at 12" because Arks have 2 of them.

>>53593627
Ghost ark is really nice but 170 points is a pretty big investment in small games.

Cryptekhs are nice because the 5++ is amazing in large units especially since people are gonna try to drive AP down your throat to remove them before they even get the opportunity to res and are really cheap.

Arks are better in larger games because your opponent can take more multiwound weapons adn quantum sheilding is borderline broken against anti-armor.

>>53593627
I personally feel like the ghost ark is better
The fact that you get to Roll RP twice per turn is a HUGE buff compared to a 4+
A single 4+ is only a 1/2 chance but a 5++ is 5/9
But on the other hand if you put the cryptek in the back it can't be shot, But on the other hand again the ghost ark is going to put out a lot more firepower than the cryptek

>>53590083
>about equivalent to a SM Captain on bike.
And that is the problem, Necrons HQ are supposed to be some of the toughest HQs in the game. That durability/endurance is their whole schtick.

The new Reanimation Orotocol does it well to represent that with the infantry units, but Living Metal isn't good enough on HQs. As multi-wounds weapons are fairly common in this edition.

>havin thrice the wounds
Cryptek and Lords got double the wounds(2 to 4). IDK where you got triple the wounds.

Unless I'm reading it wrong, is there any limit to how good you can make RP rolls? Obviously it means stacking valuable Crypteks, but it doesn't seem like there's a restriction on their buff.

>>53598648
Well fug I just opened up the pdf and I don't see anything that says there is a hard limit on it. I imagine there will be an faq within a month clarifying but until then enjoy bringing 3 crypteks for that 2 up RP, just keep your army hella close to them and models in front and you should never suffer any casualties.

Will playing Warhammer help me with my depression? Some days I just don't want to leave my bed.

>>53599783
Maybe. I've found painting and collecting makes me feel better. If I feel like I've done a nice job painting something it feels good, man

>>53599759
Get a cryptek and a ghost ark.
2 RPs per turn which each are 4+.

And if my reading isn't wrong, Ghost Ark repair barge ability works even if the unit is completely destroyed.

>>53600992
your reading is wrong.
But get 3 cypteks and a ghost ark
Get 2 RP's per turn that are 2+

>>53599783
Having a hobby can help, especially if you can look back at what you've painted and the socializing aspect
Though if you really think you are depressed you should go see a doctor

>>53601148
So what will two blobs of 20 man warrior squads, two supporting Crypteks with Ghost Ark chaser cost? For that matter, add in a destroyer lord and some heavy Gauss destroyers, and you've got a undying wall that can deal with most anything that isn't a hoard.

How are crons going to fare against nids?

>>53601366
40 warriors-480
3 crypteks -258
Ghost Ark-170
Destroyer lord -124
6 heavy destroyers- 258
1290
Plenty of room left for adding gear and maybe some tesla immortals in a 1500 point game

>>53601148
Crypteks don't stack.

>>53601868
Nowhere in the rules for 8th does it say they don't.
I'm sure that will be errattaed at somepoint but right now they do.

>>53601912
It's any friendly cryptek.

>>53601856
Might actually field that, cutting a Cryptek for a spider with repair claws for the Ark and maybe a gloom prism, depending. Run some wraiths to run interference and flank through terrain.

So I played eighth edition today and can confirm Flayed Ones still suck. Even more so now that they lost their feel no pain roll in combat.

>>53604228
Yeah I really don't know why they made them 21 points a piece.

>>53604228
What are the strongest units? I'm trying to help a friend get started with them