Sicarian nerfed

>>53528417
how are they nerfed?

>>53528563
>Neurostratic aura got dumped to 3" for no reason
>Transonics lost their AP ability and get lol 6+ mortal wound instead
>Rustalker lost haywire 'nades, their only ranged option
>Lost anykind of customisation options like dataspike
>Leadership got dumped for 2 pts, now as courageous as orcs (despite being minwiped, fearless cyborg)
>"Fuck doctrina, gets this unrelated canticles instead"
>No FnP, becomes more fragile
>Less mobile overall

Being +1 attack doesn't fix any kind of this shit anon.

>>53529083
>Fuck doctrina
This was bound to happen. Canticles are more interesting than Doctrina, and the army couldn't have two different and entirely unrelated one-per-game activated gimmicks.

>>53528417

They seem pretty fine to me. Better than Repentia.

Appearing at 9 or more seems fine when you have pistol 3 and pistol 5 that will all be in range at that point and a pretty decent chance of making the charge immediately afterwards.

2 wounds on t3 also got a LOT better this edition, when instant-death from double toughness doesn't exist. Plasmaguns won't take them out in a single hit unless they overcharge and risk killing themselves.

>>53529083
mortal wounds ignore armour and invuln saves.

that's better than just AP 2 on a 6

File: Canticles of cuck.jpg (53KB, 480x984px) Image search: [Google]

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>>53529083
Don't forget that Neurosratic Aura only affect leadership, in which are pretty much alot more useless.

Seriously fuck this shit.

>>53530302
>Canticles are more interesting than Doctrina

Yeah, interesting joke

>>53530564
You forget that they get AP2 on second round automatically.

S4 AP2 is a huge deal m8.

Well, I'm glad I only bought 1 box of the fuckers, was tempted to go for the formation that requires 4 in 7th, but that would've fucked me over real hard right now.

>>53529083
They don't even get any extra attacks as it's just the one they would've got for two weapons.

>>53530633

None of those looks bad. Cover save bonus even outside of cover, reroll 1s to hit or 'And They Shall Know No Fear' as an option.

>>53529083

They also get to fire that Pistol 5 even when engaged in melee. The infiltrators really jumped in attacks.

>>53530689
They're all just the worst versions of existing canticles.

>>53530689
>reroll 1s to hit
Pretty much not so usefull, except you're pretty much damned by the dice god constantly or supercharge your plasma erryday.

Seriously, i learn that shit soo much on AoS

>or 'And They Shall Know No Fear'
Pseudo- ATSKNF, maybe kinda usefull, maybe.

>>53530714
Um, yeah?
Everything's getting either nerfed or rebalanced.
When everything's nerfed, nothing is.

>>53530781
Best hope is that they're cheap then, because sicarians aren't threatening at all.

>>53530781
>When everything's nerfed, nothing is.

Yeah

And it throw a perfectly balance unit to shit tier.

>>53530779

>Pretty much not so usefull, except you're pretty much damned by the dice god constantly or supercharge your plasma erryday.

Not really, reroll 1s to hit is a decent increase in accuracy on 3+ accuracy guys. About 15% iirc.

>>53530849
2/3 of 1/6, so around 11.

>>53530704
>They also get to fire that Pistol 5

Shit pistol that takes the IG flashlight jokes litterally in place of usefull rerolls? That at best only give marines giggles?

Yea right

>>53530861

Right, thanks. A 10% accuracy boost is not insignificant.

Everything except stuff like Hellions got nerfed.
It's pretty fucking early to be saying everything is awful.

>>53530633
What the fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

Its literally just the shittest versions of the current canticles.

>>53530869

It actually got a fair bit killier than it did before. Str 3 wounds toughness 5 on 5+ now rather than 6+ and still wounds on 6+ all the way up to land raiders. With 5 shots each, arriving from hiding (So they are sure to all get there) they can scour wounds off basically anything.

>>53530849
>reroll 1s to hit is a decent increase in accuracy

Yeeeeah, 11% chances that you'll never get anyway.

Compared to old canticles? a bloody big joke.

>>53530904

I don't recall the old canticles giving wounds with no saves of any sort allowed.

>>53530898
>Str 3 wounds toughness 5 on 5+ now rather than 6+ and still wounds on 6+ all the way up to land raiders

And then get pasted by 3+ and 2+?
JOKE

>>53530882
Ruststalkers still aren't looking very good without a severe points drop, they're much slower and lost a lot of offensive and defensive power.

ONE PRO: infiltrators now cost 26 pts/model instead of 35, which is quite a chunk of points.

Ruststalkers I didn't check.

>>53530935
Good thing ruststalkers did get a point drop, 100 for 5 of them.

Did all the skitarii stuff not get posted here? I'll post it all if not.

>>53530652
yeah cos in an edditon that everyone can just leave combat they'll never get that second round.

They've traded an ability they'll almst never get to use anyway for an improvement in the initial turn. Its fine.

>>53530922

Running the numbers, a unit of them appearing out of nowhere and hosing down a squad of marines will put 3 of them in the dirt before they even charge. 30% of a squad dead before you charge (Or before each melee phase) isn't bad.

They also can't be stopped doing that as it's a pseudo-deep strike.

>>53530633
with how damaging battleshock can be -1 LD is a much bigger deal in 8e.

>>53530987
Then why no AP anon? And why remove their grenades if the enemy will leave combat anyway?

At least make them usefull and fluffy a bit, this only makes them Far more useless.

>>53530964
That's something I guess, although you'd be hard pressed to use them compared to infiltrators still.

>>53531010
It's not much different than a sweeping advance.

>>53531010
A random hope power that they only get when they actually kill anything?

Whats make them usefull compared to WS and BS penalty, which is also adherence to their current fluff, and usefull?

>>53530916
And thats only the upper part? In edition where everything is get double wounded?

please

>>53530955

So, they're killier at shooty, lost some other good bits about them, but ultimately took a 9 point dip in price. They're still fragile but seem to have gotten a tad bit more consistency to them.

I still love the models (converters dream), but let's not kid ourselves about them; they were always glass cannons.

>>53531052
they don't need to kill anything for it to matter. Battleshock now happens at the end of a turn adding all casualties from all phases.

>>53531131
>So, they're killier at shooty
as killy as guards now

>a tad bit more consistency to them.
consistency to what?

>they were always glass cannons.
Yeah
Usefull class cannon in the past at least
Now? a glass cartoon

>>53531162
>Battleshock now happens at the end of a turn adding all casualties from all phases.

And it will happens to the sicarians more it seems, with that ork like bravery.

The only saving grace is one reroll that only usefull once, if you lucky....

>>53531079

>In edition where everything is get double wounded?

Far from everything got double wounded. Heck, almost nothing that was 1W became 2 wounds.

>>53531201

>as killy as guards now

Most guard are 4+, not 3+. They also don't have 5 attacks each.

>>53531293
They have equal amount of weapon's strength that was already maded up with number, and versatility.

>>53531293
You can get 4 shots per guardsman with orders.

>>53531402

So basically 'No weapon can be useful unless it's not strength 3'?

A unit of Infiltrators will wipe out 30% of a marine squad before any charging happens.

>>53530781
Not everything is being nerfed though. So much stuff looks so much worse than 7ed, but a lot looks much better too. You can get giant turn 1 charges with nids using trigons and the swarmlord, you can get crazy turn 1 deepstrikes within 1" of the enemy through proper use of homing beacons with tau, there are already strategies being formed to nuke everything important in your opponents army turn 1 with some lists, and other armies get 76 point trukks and shitty canticles.
Sure, everything might be balanced, but they've done a horrendous job of actually translating much of the meat of the factions over, it's just "when in doubt, remove all fun".

>>53530978
Haven't seen it, post please

>>53531649
https://imgur.com/a/xfzat

>>53531666
>arc weapons went from auto-wounding vehicles on 2s
to
>wounding on 5s but wow you can do D3 damage! You're always going to be rolling 1s, and vehicles have 40 wounds now, but at least they're cheap!

Think I'm going to kill myself.

>>53531712

every vehicle is a stompa now?

>>53531712

That seems to be a general move to make vehicles actually take some serious killing. Basically no one can just remove vehicles like arc weapons/necrons/meltaguns used to.

Heck, even meltaguns will take a few shots to put down a rhino now.

>>53531727
Even trukks have 10 wounds now. Arc weapons went from being dedicated vehicle killers to pretty bland, like everything else. The slight damage increase (GW does realise D3 just means unrelaiable 2, right?) only offsets the vehicle wound increase, its penetrative power is just gone.

>>53531767
It's just been so poorly balanced though. They directly translated the hydraulic claw from being ap- to ap -1. It was AP- previously becasue it was a dedicated vehicle killer, it wasn't supposed to be killing heavy infantry, now all it can do is kill medium infantry as it barely touches vehicle armour.
No thought went into the balancing, it's a universal thing in the leaked codices. They just translated the numbers roughly the same and completely ignored unit flavor or lore or intended function. Trukks now cost more than the boyz they transport, and are exactly as much assault transports as rhinos are.

>>53531626
>it's just "when in doubt, remove all fun".
This is my major take away from the re-balancing effort right now, I read the rules the old transsonic rules and really liked how the fluff matched the rules, the translation to this new edition just sounds really fucking shoddy.

In fact it is no longer coming off as re-balancing, just re-branding what they had instead of sorting out their mess.

>>53532146
A lot of what they did seems to be "I can't be fucked to write actual rules" tier. Basic Skitarii and especially Sicarians lost a lot because they were minor rules that added up, rather than anything unit-defining. Feel No Pain, Scout from the Maniple, Doctrinas (which were amazing and I miss them already) Neurostatic, anything good about Transonics, the actual effect of Deflagrate, all the Haywire guns, Plasma Calivers down to Assault 2, Canticle scaling, all kinds of stuff.

It all adds up to a significant power and fun drop because they thought little Timmy wouldn't be able to understand more than two rules per unit, which are always there because they chopped out the entire USR system that was meant to make this shit simpler while simplifying everything.

>Skitaari players being assmad about getting nerfed like pretty much everybody who isnt Nids
Wew lad.

I'll get myself some popcorn, don't stop the delicious stream of tears, I'll need them to salt my popcorn.

>>53532198

Feel no pain (Sort of) stayed in the form of the Bionics 6++.

They seem to have really reduced the amount of additional saves in general.

>>53532198
You put it there much more detailed than I can and I completely agree. Although my last years is over half a year ago I kinda feel like a hypocrite bitching about this.

But this obvious attempt at re-branding is stupid for the reasons you pointed out. They could have combated the USR bloat but instead removed it entirely, I already had my suspicions when I saw the vehicle rules (lack of facings, damage tables, etc, etc).

I'll play a couple games and see how it works out, it's just a bitter pill seeing those rules you thought were pretty cool being removed (removing deflagerate is fucking horrendous, I fucking hate them for that whislt I don't even play an army that has such a weapon) and reduced to something else entirely.

>>53532251
It's really not so bad, we got a good few buffs and price rebalances and everything's a little bit more even now, it's just they made some really strange decisions like giving Rangers 1/6 of their proper armour pen, plasma having 2/3 the shots and Haywire being a bit useless.
Mostly we're sad because we lost a fuckton of flavour, not power level as such.

>>53532198
I just think not every army has to be little timmy's first wargame. That's what AoS was always for. Space Marines are actually the most complex army we've seen just because they were allowed to keep most of their bloat, meaning that complex, difficult armies like AdMech are now mind-numbingly dumb while space marines are one of the more complex armies to try and build and play, due to keeping faction specific units and weird special rules.
They're going to need to start churning those codices out fast because people will get bored by these indices within 20 minutes.

>>53532275

>Rangers 1/6 of their proper armour pen

Nothing in the game has -6 armour pen.

>>53532290
No, they should have -1 permanently as they were AP4 previously and have low volume of fire and now less BS, but they only get it on sixes To Wound.

>>53532290
Galvanic rifles went from AP4 to AP-, Arc rifles went from 2+ autowound vehicle to 5+ to wound 4+ save 2 damage to vehicle, doctrinas are gone so no more BS10
The problem is that all the special rules were removed and the "slight nerf" of AP4 to AP- just compounds the lack of effort put into the translation.

>>53532275
Meanwhile, people are talking about how fair it was that Tau lost their haywire options, and got nerfs that looks suspiciously like these skitaari nerfs. Gee, really wonder why.

I am having loads of fun watching this hypocritical shithole simultaneously have a laugh AND cry about the same changes made across the board. But do keep going, I'll just sit here with my Chadmarines and laugh at you pathetic faggots who can't figure out what you want.

>>53532397
I am shamelessly the same anon that started the thread whining about Tau changes. It turns out that every army got shafted when it comes to flavor and uniqueness. Say what you will about the old AP system, at least an AP4 weapon felt different to an AP3 or AP2 weapon.
And explosives are still shit. Nobody likes this much randomness GW.

>>53532397
>I'll just sit here and laugh
Isn't that what 40k threads are for?

>>53532446
>It turns out that every army got shafted when it comes to flavor and uniqueness.

I dunno, SOB faith powers are pretty cool now. Far from perfect but pretty cool. They are a lot more flavorful than the previous ones.

Haha get fucked admech faggots

Get fucked admech faggots. This is absolutely hilarious.

>>53528417
As a SM player i have to point out that the unit in fact has become much better and you shoul all stop your pathetic whining.

The Sicarians are at least way cheaper now, so they are reasonably expendable countercharge units.

>>53532647
But it's nowhere near as fun or interesting.
There were weird combos you could pull off with old sicarians, now they're just another combat unit.

>>53532565
>>53532572
Damn, samefagging much anon?
What are AdMechs has done on you? Removing a large chunk of your brain?

>>53532647
You must see the previous one, marinesfag.

Looking at the new Admech stuff is this a reasonable list for someone who's never 40k'd before based on the Start Collecting? If I've navigated this shitpile of an army list properly it's 1000 points:

HQ:
Magos Dominus, Eradication Ray, Macrostubber (141)

Tech-Priest Enginseer (52)

Troops:

10x Rangers, 2x Arquebus, Omnispex (157)
10x Rangers, 2x Caliver, Omnispex (135)

Heavy Support:

2x Kastelan Robot, Combustor + Fist (312)
Onager, Neutron Laser, Extra Stubber (151)

Elites:

Cybernetica Datasmith (52)

>95 points for 5 double razor Ruststalkers
>120 points for 5 Sword/carbine Infiltrators

And Infiltrators can set up 9" away AT THE START OF THE GAME. 3 squads of these guys is scary as shiiiiit. Kinda sad rusties only do average 2~ mortal wounds in a squad of 5, buuut Infiltrators will be the shit. 360 points for 15 dudes and literally guaranteed turn one charge is terrifying.

Stop complaining faggots learn math, Omnissiah protects. Also BoLS and BaC fearmongerers get out, this shit is literally fantastic.

>>53532709
I would take the vanguard with the caliver instead, it's traditional at this point, and the flamers look like you should be taking them whenever possible. The enginseer looks a bit superfluous, only one repair can be made to a unit a round, and you only have 2 multi wound units. Other than that it's grand, maybe 3 of each special weapon, but you'd need another kit.

>>53532676
Well, atleast infiltrator can still punch harder than trucks mate. They will see their use.

Just, be strong anon, be strong for Omnissiah until the proper codex came out (maybe).

>>53532736
>we're now going to be split into more subfactions, somehow

>>53532714
>Haha its alright guis we can spam them

Nice try GW.
Well, atleast i can confirm that 8th hammer is the year of spamhammer.

>>53532769
>a basic squad of Infiltrators deals 5 wounds on MEQs, 4 on TEQs

Yeah, suuuuuure. Rusties aren't that good (oh well they'll get HH rules), but Infiltrators are the new shit

>>53532696
Hello Ivan. Go kill yourself you Slavic piece of shit.

BELL OF LOST WAACFAG AND BULLTER N' KEKSWORD GET OUT

Jesus fick these balances are damn nice across the board everyone stop being shits. A double Plasma Skitarii squad is only 78 points (and has 4 goddamn shots), kataphrons are even scarier than before, and Sicarians can spam and kill so fast and hard 'skittery manpile' actually sounds like a tactical doctrine. Cheer up lads, we're doing damn well.

On an aside, I have the Admech leaks if anyone wants them all

>>53530781
>When everything's nerfed, nothing is interesting.

I'm so, so glad I'm getting out of 40k. We're going from an unbalanced, bloated mess to a boring, dumbed-down mess, neither of which are worth playing. The fluff has gone to shit as well, so there isn't even that reason to stick around.

>>53532827
>Anybody who are disagree with me are slavic shit

Unsurprising, for something that come out from a tryhard shill.

>>53532805
Infiltrators aren't even "the shit" when they lost most of their worth, at best they're just another glorified killing and tarpit unit.

Both sicarians aren't even an OP unit, not even in 7th, so this just change them from fun unit to boring "nothingshere" unit.

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>leman russ
>supercharged shot with plasma cannon
>on a hit roll of 1 the bearer is slain
wat

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>>53533035

>>53533072
right on
thanks

>>53532892
You aren't fooling me you depressive little shit.
>shill
You're not even trying are you?

>>53533035
Its like that the overheating capasitor creates a chain reaction inside the tank, cause it to explode entirely.

Thats why it has a vent.

>>53533035
>>53533072

whelp, its not like I liked having a triple plasma russ anyway

>>53533102
>You aren't fooling me you depressive little shit.

I wonder who is the one who start to fooling anyone here, and the one who start picking shit by calling anyone slavshit......

>>53533173
What the fuck are you even trying to say?

>>53533162
>>53533139
>>53533084
>>53533072
you realise you can not overcharge and just be S7 right? and that the plasma vents rule means you dont auto die right?
oh and one of teh tank orders is reroll 1s?

>>53533209

Oh I didnt know about the tank order, that makes it slightly better, but I'm still struggling to see a use for the executioner. Unless you overcharge you're statistically behind the demolisher, and even then you're basically exchanging the higher strength for 12'' further range. Now that's a pretty reasonable trade off for me, but having to either dedicate an order to it or take the chance of suicide (6 wounds is a lot, knocks you down to on the damage table) is too much of a commitment to justify it in my opinion.

Still its a cool model, so I'll bring it out for apocalypse and other dumb games.

>>53533574
also plasma cannon breaks completely after overheating and auto eating your 6 wounds

>>53533574
Bigger problem is comparing the Executioner with the Battle Cannon. They trade one extra AP for 36" of range, some randomness on damage (same average) and no suicide rule.

I would play a Vanquisher before an Executioner at this point.

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>>53531666
>They nerf the shit out of Sicarians and Rangers
>Still no reason to bring Breachers over Destroyers
>Vanguard loose cancer bubble, Neurostatic becomes utter shit
>Radium becomes shitty as fuck, and removes it's horde clearing ability entirely.
>Kastelan are better off as heavy gun platforms, and only have 6 wounds EACH.
>Plas Cavalier lost a shot for no reason
>Ballistari have become utter shit, hitting on 6's if you advance, 4's if you move
>Everyone has a ++5 save instead of FNP
>Servitors a entire elite choice
>

And yet, for some fucking reason: Electroo priests are now shitting out mortal wounds all over the place, and has both a ++3 AND FNP.

What the actual fuck.

>this tau tier salt

Loving every laugh

Mix up your tactics and get to know your units

>>53533926
>Vanguard loose cancer bubble
No, they still have it.
Radium is OK, just that wounds don't spill over.

Kastelans only have 6 wounds, but can be repaired to shit by everything and have by default 2+ 4++ with Aegis, or shoot 18 S6 -2 shots EACH in turret mode. Also much cheaper, only 110 with all phosphor even when everything is normally getting price rises.
Servitors were an elite pick before.
Sicarians were nerfed to crap, yeah, but are also way cheaper and if you use them as countercharge on hordes that get too close you don't worry about the lack of Dunestrider.

No idea about the Plasma, the Ballistari and the invulns, though. Although holy shit, the Dunecrawlers. Want a vehicle VERY dead? Three of these will do the sodding job.

I'm honestly thinking the thing the Mechanicum lacks most now is anti-tough vehicle, since most of our gimmicks for that have been changed to anti-heavy infantry/light vehicle and Dragoons just bounce off armour. I guess hit it with a Knight or fire a billion radcarbines at it?

>>53534097
Or better yet, sell your army and play a better game.

>>53534103
Also dear GOD, the Icarus Arrays. Only suffer BS3 against ground, got significantly stronger and BS5 against flyers at all times, so RIP Tau.

>>53534097
>Mix up your tactics and get to know your units
That's the problem anon; I used to be able to do that. I used to be able to run heavy Assault Sicarian/Dragoon armies, with Vanguard strategically placed to lower enemy toughness.

I used to pull out cheeky ID Neutron lasers on Riptides by sneaking my Vanguard around.

But now things are shitty everywhere.

>new edition
>completely changing the purpose of a thing
Why? Just make it do what it used to do with updated rules. For example, why are some anti-infantry guns now anti-armour and vice versa? This goes for all factions.

>>53534179
To force you to buy new stuff.

>>53530827
>7th edition
>perfectly balanced

>>53534381
>Refers to a singular unit
>Imply the entire edition

>>53534381
>American reading comprehension

>>53533201
That you are tryhard shill anon

>>53534103
>Three of these will do the sodding job.
>I guess hit it with a Knight or fire a billion radcarbines at it?

Yeah, like what Geedubs always wanted
Buy more model! pretty please

>>53534179
It happens all the time?

>>53534554
What's your point? I'm asking why.

>>53534591
The entire point of a new edition is to change things, shake the meta up, make the game fresher and get people to buy things.

If you just want to update rules, you publish an errata.

>>53534528
Yeah. The increase in durability of everything means that Admech can currently mulch anything infantry-sized with ease, but struggle with vehicles and monsters due to lack of high S/AP guns. Neutron Laser and that's about it, and the NL is basically a fancy Vanquisher Cannon. Line up three of four with an Icarus or two in the back and they'll probably kill a vehicle a turn, though.

>>53534103
>anti tough vehicle
balistarii, dunecrawlers, torison cannon breachers...

you've got options

>>53534908
Breacher cannon might actually be pretty good now, you're right. Previously doing D3 wounds was far too unreliable for single BS3 shots, now it's just a Multimelta minus the Melta Rule. Depends, I'll do some mathhammering. I think you could fish for 5+ with Grav too, if it came to that.
Dunecrawlers certainly going to be the mainstay, though. I'll have to get more than just the one I have at the moment, they're sexy too. Also probably another Ironstrider, just so I can have 3 FA if required.

>>53532858
Here's the problem with robots: they now have the vehicle keyword. That makes them vulnerable to a lot of extra damage.
On the other hand, prices were halved.

>>53530659
yep, did this, had fun, won tourneys.

Now it'll be more fun to keep them on my shelf than let them anywhere near a table.

>>53532251
>Everybody gets nerfed down because these are temp rulebooks
>Most nids were so horrible they actually got buffed by the temp dex
It's hilarious, really.
Fuck Cruddace.
That said...
>>53528417
I hope things become better once you get an actual book, and that said book doesn't take too long. Everybody deserves to have their army have cool stuff and not just generic shit.