Warhammer 40K general(40kg)

First for Da Boyz

>>53526182
Have we gotten any Necron leakes besides Monolith and C'tan?

>>53526182
How fucked are csm this edition?

Dissapointed in shock prows. I wanted a power fist tied to the front of my raider.

Has their been any leaks for the GSC Goliath's?

>>53526385
Balanced™

Still waiting for Scarab Occult :(

Are scourges now one of the best units in the game?

Plastic Sisters soon.

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>>53526385

Has there been a Kharn/Khorne Berzerkers leak yet?

>>53526385
If you listen to the doomsayers they managed to beat Tau for lowest tier spot.

>Tyranids are great again
>Tau and Chaos got cucked

Holy shit Carnac is going to have an aneurysm

Can 8th get any more based??

But no, seriously, Chaos might be in a mediocre spot for now but they will also probably be one of the quickest Factions to get their Codex releases which should bring back Legion rules and fix the other things.

>>53526499
Yes https://m.imgur.com/a/ayv2c

So list of factions convinced they are the worst

CSM
Tau
Necron
Ork
Space Marines?

>>53526521
But I thought Carnac was a Necron player hence the name?

>>53526499
they get to attack twice in a turn

>>53526439
speaking of sisters that special character canoness is not available any more right?

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So I picked up a cheap AdMech Start Collecting box, what do you folks think is the safest option to assemble, Rangers or Vanguard?

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>>53526612
i got it all sister

>>53526557
Berzerkers are neat

Kharn kind of blows

who here hype for 9th edition?

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SO FOR THOSE WHO MISSED IT

Orks got their points. And they got fucked hard.

How is SoB state at the moment? Oh wait is true now we are "Imperial Agents"

Somebody make a dump of all the leaked photos for the love of Gork

>>53526385
Like Orks in 7th edition; painfully nerfbatted with extreme prejudice, while Eldar get off relatively light.

Vehicles are too fucking expensive edition

Do we have a compiled pdf of the Deldar pages yet? They're spread out over 2 threads because of a Tau autist

>>53526578
Space Marines are perfectly fine. Some people just think Primaris are overcosted.

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>>53526655
take a look

>>53526578

Everyone except Tyranid and Dark Eldar.
Waiting on the Eldar rules to leak so I can be butt-devastated.

Orks confirmed garbage for another edition

Kek what a let down this edition, GW never dissapoints their haters

>>53526385
Weaker than Traitor Legions, probably stronger than pre-Traitor Legions.

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>>53526654
Why GW? We trusted you.

>>53526654
Dakkajet btw seems to come with 4 supa shootas, and the option to take 2 more for a total of 24 shots.

>>53526654
What hit them so hard?

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Tau boycott is in effect. Every Tau player join in. Demands: Riptide reduced point cost and riptide wing rules added to 8th.

>>53526654
> 7th Edition
> Flash Gitz AND sternguard veterans both 22 ppm
> Flash gitz objectively worse at the same job in every conceivable way than sternguard vets
> 8th edition:
> Flash gitz 27 ppm, sternguard vets 16 ppm.
What the fuck? Was this even necessary?

>>53526685
yes
>confirmed

>>53526705
Runt herds are 26 fucking points.
Battlewagons are nearly 200 points without any fucking weapons.

>>53526655

One faith per turn
Celestine is mandatory
Literally half of our Codex is elites
Mandatory models no one owns
Overlooked rules such as being unable to use faith after disembarking
Troops are worthless tax units
Celestians are shit
No more command squads
Priests are elites instead of HQs
Cannoness is a tax unit

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Do all bombers produce mortal wounds?

>>53526613
>speaking of sisters that special character canoness is not available any more right?
I dunno, I don't play this gay game. I just want plastic Sisters.

>>53526654
Okay, random question, but what model gets a Pair of Rokkit Pistols?

Anyone got the rules for the Hive Tyrant, Tyrant Guards and Swarmlord?

Now I want to see all the ork datasheets so I can see what they believe justifies these fucking insane point costs

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>>53526706
>They're already starting this

Delicious tears ....

>>53526654
Stormboys are 8 points with ALL of their gear already, no need to buy them anything.

Slugga boy stats with M12

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>current year
>no grot special characters

>>53526717
Tanks are kinda pointless to bring in this edition.

A 3 predator squadron went from 285 to over 500. Land raiders went from 250 to 350+. It's not surprising that battle wagons cost too much too.

>>53526708
snazzguns cost 0

>>53526706
I'm a Tau player! Where do I sign up to vote against your vote you stupid bitch?

>>53526662
I'll make one. Give me a bit.

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We need craftworld Eldar leaks. This will make or break 8th edition.

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>>53526741
Tankbustas

Now add up the points costs.

Tell me if they seem like they're worth the points.

>>53526385
Mediocre. Psykers suck, cultists are more expensive, CSM/Havocs seem identical, possessed are hilariously even worse, warp talons look to have less attacks than CSM, oblits are garbage, all daemon engines got a 50-100% point increase. Kharn is more expensive, better in some ways worse in others. Berserkers look okay but are an elite/dedicated melee unit who struggles with hard targets. Legion rules are gone, summoning is actively taking a handicap. Our sole special rule is occasionally exploding dice for melee units, so not worth mentioning. No clue what, if anything, marks do. Non-cult armies are fucked.

All in all, very lackluster, nothing to be excited for.

>>53526708
Flash gitz are 27, sternguard are 19 after paying for their special issue bolter.

>>53526698

That practically kills most Flyers doesn't it?

>>53526752
A Battlewagon is worse in every single way than a land raider, but costs more once you give it everything it NEEDS.

>>53526752
You're only supposed to bring one or two of them now, retard, because of all the fucking Wounds they get before they die.

>>53526722

Aww yeah i had hope to win a game this edition, but we keep being trash maybe i should start buying tau

>>53526597
Who knows if he even plays the fucking game, but originally he was known as TIDF (Tau Internet Defense Force) and he tends to shitpost the most about how Tau and Chaos are the best, and Necrons to a lesser extent

>>53526731
We saw the stats of the Voidraven from Dark Eldar, and it does as well, so I'd say yes. The main differences was that the Void Raven needed to only roll a 3+, and you rolled 3d6 if you flew over a vehicle/monster and only 1d6 for infantry.

Seems Mortal wounds are there to speed things along, but they'll still affect different targets to different degrees

>>53526706

Nice false flagging.
Though I wish the riptide wasn't just straight bad, but worth its cost.

>>53526667
Seen some various SM complaining

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>>53526706

Don't lie. You are not a Tau player.

>>53526776
>but costs more
no way battlewagon is coming out over 350

>>53526756
Flash git models are 27 points anyway.

>>53526766
>>bomb squig hits on a 2+
>>loot quad gun
>>quad gun piloted by pig.

This is properly orky

>>53526777
Anti tank weapons do multiple wounds too retard

So what if a tank has 3 times the wounds when anti tank guns do d6 damage a hit? It dies the same you fucking mongoloid.

>>53526741
Da most darin' Stormboy of 'em all

>>53526654
orks in the trash with tau

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Ready to take it up the ass as a Guard player. Time to paint up 100 more men.

>>53526764

Spoiler: Eldar will always be TIER 1.

I expect their ppm to be sky high now and full of bullshit psychic powers.

It seems like everyone thinks they're shit. I suspect people need to recalibrate.

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>>53526795
total it up friend

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>>53526706
No I don't want that.

I want killer roombas back

>>53526706
I play tau. Fuck you, you people ruined tau for me with you WAAC faggery.

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Well im done

see you guys in 9th edition

>>53526800
what're the stats on the sternguard guns?

BS5+ heavy3 S5 AP-2 D1 guns that shoot again on a roll of 6 is pretty good. only problem is 24" range.

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>>53526182
Chao Goliath rules when?

>>53526818
A battle wagon base cost is 161

Tell me what 195 points of wargear you put on it to make it cost the same as a 356 point land raider.

>>53526654
>we have rules for only a handful of units
>no one has done the math to figure out points efficiency yet
>WE'RE FUCKED
/tg/ confirmed for reactionary sperglords who have no idea what they're talking about

>>53526829

time to sell your army on e-bay

>>53526812
>Time to paint up 100 more men.

Don't. BS 3 with a lasgun does absolutely jack-all to Marines and equivalents. Yes I know the maths say 18 shots per dead marine, but you are rarely ever in a position to concentrate enough firepower on a squad to make a difference.

>>53526836
Sternguard guns are 30 inch range S4 ap-2 1 damage rapid fire 1

List of factions convinced they are the worst

CSM
Tau
Necron
Ork-now suicidal
Space Marines? Depends on flavour
Guard
SoB
Custards think they can't even play

>>53526836
3 points each
sternguard are 16 before, 19 total

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>Tau observers can now hide anywhere on the field while the sniper drones get a bonus in BS so long the observer sees the target.

>>53526697
>>53526717
They have W16, T7 you retards.

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>>53526684
>Disintegrator cannons

>>53526722
>Yeah
>Celestine is just the old mandatory jump canoness
>Half the codex has always been elites
>The fuck are you are on?
>Same as always
>Same as always
>They can fuck off anyway
>Yeah
>So it goes

I-its not like I wanted my S 4 T 5 D6 attack power weapon fearless 4+ invul arco-flagellants back anyway

>YFW your exorcist does 18 wounds

>>53526818
>161 + 27(killkannon) + 18(lobba) + 48(4 rokkit launchas) + *unkown* upgrades
that's 254 before the vehicle upgrades, which we don't have points for, but I'll fucking bet my life they don't cost 96 points.

>>53526854
So what then? Mech Guard again?

>>53526696
No, definitely weaker than pre-TL. All power units are more expensive and or nerfes, and all troops are the same price or more expensive.

>>53526836
Flash Gitz are also BS 4+ by default now, since the gitfinda is kind of build-in due to heavy weapon mechanics

>>53526880

It's the age of the Armored IG again.

>>53526812
What the fuck is with Japan's fetish for pigs? The nose hooks and the references to women being "sows" is revolting and ruins many a good doujin.

>>53526880
Mech Guard again. If a baseline Leman Russ is any indicator, we get cheaper shit than what everyone else has to pay.

But that could easily change as soon as we actually have the fucking books in our hands with the actual point values.

>>53526761
A true hero

>>53526669
Been gone for a few hours, has anyone done Guard yet?

At work, some kind anon give me a rundown of what happened to necrons?

>>53526892
right, and two wounds, which they may have had before I can't remember.

>>53526818
254 for the most expensive set of guns. I don't see points for wargear.

THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE EDITION THAT FIXED EVERYTHING

ORKS WERE SUPPOSED TO GET PRICE DROPS ACROSS THE BOARD

>>53526900
I don't know but I love them. They feel really good to wear

>>53526906

Nobody knows yet, no major leaks for Cron.

>>53526904
No :(

>>53526839
We don't have access to the equipment costs yet, but weapons alone:

161 + 27 for killcannon + 24 for big shootas + 48 for rokkit launchas + 18 for zzap gun + Deff ROlla, Ard Case, grabbin claw, wreckin ball. Those last 4 only have to cost 78 points. Here's a hint, they already cost more than that in the current codex, and everything in the current codex is WAY cheaper.

>>53526892
If only battlewagons weren't 400 points each I would totally field a bunch of flash gitz in wagons driving all over the place shooting at stuff

>>53526908
they were based off nobz so they did have two wounds

>>53526884
No? Berserkers are far better than pre-TL for one.

>>53526817
>Tau leaks come out, tau players cry that they're shit
>Space Marine leaks come out, space marine players cry that they're shit
>Sisters leaks come out, sisters players cry that they're shit
>Chaos leaks come out, chaos players cry that they're shit
>Ork leaks come out, Ork players cry that they're shit
Agreed, I think people have no idea how to judge points costs in this edition yet and we need to all PLAY SOME GAMES before jumping to conclusions.

Alliances are still in! Taudar here we go!

>>53526898
>>53526880

lolno

Vehicles are vastly more expensive

If a rhino costs more than double what it used to, chimeras are going to be well over 100 points and leman russes will probably be in the mid 200s otherwise they'd cost less than predators.

>>53526930
>4 big shootas and 4 rokkit launchas
ya goofed.

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>>53526819
No I don't want that.

I want FIRESTREAM WING back.

>>53526879
I also wouldn't classify a Killcannon as something a Battlewagon 'needs', especially if your goal is to have it as a bunker/transport for something inside.

It should be easy to keep the thing around 200 points. It's 161 by default and everything is optional. If you want it for assaults, Grab a 'ard case, maybe one of the melee weapons, and some Rokkits if you really want. If you want it for a Loota Bunker, just grab one of the bigger guns

>>53526841
I've done the math on the units we have. They are WAY overpointed versus their nearest equivalents. Even if you just judge them on the basis of how many shots they pump out or hits they make in combat compared to everything else, every single unit is too many points. They're in the top 10% of points cost to value for EVERY comparison I make.

>>53526930
>Look, the battlewagon costs more than a landraider if you literally give it every single upgrade

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Will this be an infantry edition?

>>53526951
>Leman russes will probably be in the mid 200s

The leaker guy from earlier said a baseline Russ is about 172 points. Not cheap but cheapER than what everyone else has to pay.

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>>53526914

we're just going to have to be an elite horde army, get used to it

>>53526767
This is so wrong and bad. Psychic is just a genuinely different thing than what it was in 7th. You can choose powers, basically guarantee a double move on your CSM no matter who you take, and we still have yet to see the completed codex.

>>53526959
I made the most expensive battlewagon possible just to prove a point. It could also go with big shootas instead of rokkit launchas.

>>53526964
Yeah 356 is the base cost of a land raider without upgrades. Just the default weapons.

>>53526937
Berserkers are, but pretty much everything else is the same or worse. One unit does not a good army make, especially when only 2/9 of the legions can use berserkersn at best.

>>53526898
>>53526902
Not a fan of mech Guard. Not fun to play or to play against. Maybe it will be good if I run it with mech vets and mech bullgryn so I have some fun melee units too. Probably will end up using 1-2 blobs like I do now.
>>53526951
I think someone said a Leman with the battle cannon and heavy bolter is 162 points. Someone else said 172. I dunno which it is.

>>53526952
did I? abusing RAW is the ONLY way these things will see the table for the next year.

>>53526939

>Something changes
>[muffled REEEEEEE heard in the distance]

It's the classic 40K reaction, I've watched this happen every new edition and every new codex since 1999.

>>53526969
A "baseline russ" being Battlecannon and one Heavy Bolter.

>>53526922
I suppose every fetish seems like a terrible one until a hot girl wants to do it with you.

>>53526939
>Cron leaks come out, Cron players cautiously optimistic

It's not all bad.

>>53526914

>Orks suicidal now
>New edition just getting started

Good job GW, well played

>>53526908
I'd actually forgotten the two wounds. Assuming they also have a 4+ save now, I'd say that's actually alright. 8 more points for an extra wound and more shots at long range, for less mobility, less armor, and slightly lower BS

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Previous :

>An avatar of Khaine is destroyed in a stampede of 12 Carnifexes. Being able to take two or three with him before being flattened

Now :
>In Duriel, the Eldar deploy an avatar but are forced to temporarily retreat. The last thing they see is an avatar being drowned in Tyranid bodies
>When they return, they find out that the Avatar is alive atop a literal mountain of Tyranid corpses. This stokes the flame in Eldar hearts and they fight harder

>In shield of Baal, A C'tan shard goes on a massive killing spree against the Tyranids. With mere gestures from its hands, fullblown swarms of Tyranids are incinerated to ash. Even when a bio-titan was directed at it, it proved futile as the biotitan's bio-munitions couldn't harm the C'tan. The C'tan casually slapped the biotitan down before superheating its insides to the point it burst apart. The C'tan shard would later create a massive firestorm that erased all Tyranid presence on a moon sized platform.

>Recently, Tyranids were swarming all over the Baal system. In a strange occurrence, all the Tyranids outside of the planet Baal disappeared. The only clue to as to where they went is on Baal's moon.
>On the Baal's moon, it was discovered that all the Tyranids there were butchered and all their skulls were stacked together impossibly high to form a mountainous Khornate symbol of Ka'bandha implying that the Greater Daemon has slaughtered the entire Tyranid forces on the moon

/teegee/, What happened?

>>53526969
That would put a baseline leman russ at 30 points less than a predator annihilator, or 1 more than a predator destructor.

I'm about to sell my space marines and buy into guard.

>>53526984
>may be equiped with four big shootas and/or rokkit launchas
You tell me. that sure sounds like 4 guns of some combination of big shootas and rokkit launchas.

>>53526986
The difference is this time the math agrees with them. I hate to say it, but the pessimists were right for once.

This edition is absolutely fucked. Units are all over the spectrum. Some are ridiculously underpointed. I don't exaggerate. I'm talking some unit should be 30+% more or 40+% less.

>>53526972
You can guarantee a double move on a single unit per turn.

>>53526934
>If only battlewagons weren't 400 points each I would totally field a bunch of flash gitz in wagons driving all over the place shooting at stuff

I know right? I can't believe a single battlewagon is 2000 points once you give it all the proper upgrades. I could get like 4 Knights for that!

>>53526939
Tyranids kind of poke a huge hole in that theory.

Everything so far suggests they are AGGRESSIVELY improved.

>>53526982
Infantry inside of a transport qualifies as "Mech Guard".

And what's the difference in how fun shuffling a bunch of tanks around the table versus gobs of infantry is?

Waiting on Deathwatch leaks so I can finally build my squads, any day now

So how long do you think it will be before they start rolling out the actual codexes?

>>53526930
>buying a killcannon, a zzap gun, the ard case, and thinking you can buy 4 rokkits and 4 big shootas
Some has no fucking clue what they're doing.
The most you'll realistically want to put on there is the deff rolla and maybe some rokkits if you have a few points to fill.

>>53527017
Yes, and the price of a rhino has doubled so why do you think the price of a chimera hasn't?

>>53527024
>not taking T8

Give me one reason not to.

>>53527008

I'll wait until shit is put on the tabletop and see how it performs a couple of times before I judge how worth it they are.

I'm not going to base all my opinions entirely off of math-hammer without even having the full rules at my disposal.

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Pulse rifles or pulse carbines? What about pulse blasters?

>>53527008
what are the extremely undercosted dudes?

>>53527021
anything not marine will be waiting a long time I imagine

>>53526999
>this is all carnac can do before the unholy wrath of tyranids resurgent to tier 1
>shitpost about fluff no one reads anymore

>>53526990
That sounds about right. I got my exs into things they didn't care for until they did it with me. It helps when the guy doesn't have to do anything particular, like the nose hooks. It's not him wearing the hooks or whatever fetishy outfit it is.

>>53527002
Yes. And I forgot to mention a "baseline Russ" is adding a BattleCannon (22 points) and a single Heavy Bolter (8 points) onto it. So really, a gunless Russ is actually 142 points - I think.

It looks like 8th is dead on arrival.

Incidentally, Drop Pods are about 100 points now, and can only transport infantry in power armor. No more Drop Pod Dreads or Terminators. Because fuck Blood Angels.

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Anyone see the points for the Valkyrie/Vendetta? I wanna know if airborne guard are going to be viable.

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>>53527016
Your welcome.

>>53526876

>>Celestine is just the old mandatory jump canoness
Except we can only have 1 Celestine, and the canoness is a worthless tax unit for FoC that need more than 1 HQ

>>Half the codex has always been elites
Except we had things MOVE to elites like priests, who were HQs. We now have ONE non-character HQ

>>The fuck are you are on?
If you start the turn embarked, you can use an AoF on that unit. Ergo, embarked units won't be able to benefit from an AoF until T3 minimum.
>T1 move in rhino
>T2 Disembark
>T3 AoF
Wow

>>They can fuck off anyway
Command squads were our most customizable unit that is now gone

>>Yeah
Again, we only have non-character HQ, and priests would have filled that slot very well

>>So it goes
She literally has no place in the new SoB party bus tactics

>>YFW your exorcist does 18 wounds
Retributers and doms will consistently do more damage

>>53527021
July, probably. My guess is death guard and primaris in July, xenos of some sort in August, SM in September, another Xenos in October, AoS in Nov, and then either CSM, More Xenos or auxiliary imperials in December.

>>53527016
That's mainly because most of the Tyranid things saw point drops rather than increases, and the things with increases also got some pretty drastic changes to go with them so it's hard to judge

>>53527038
I don't need to see the full rules, when I can see the full point costs and see that my mechanized space marine list went from 1850 points to over 2300 points.

>>53527038
You're right, and you can't trust math until we have access to all the information...

but so far, it looks like they have REALLY fucked up.

A game of Tau vs Orks right now is a done deal. Orks cannot beat Tau on the tabletop, unless the profiles we haven't seen have magical powers that remove units from the table.

Grey knight armies are going to be 10 models, and those 10 models are going to die to lasguns.

>>53527037
T8 over T7 matters for guns of strength 4, 7, 8, 14, 15 and 16. So it kind of depends upon what you're fighting.

>>53527037
If you're taking it for Lootas to shoot out of

>>53527032
I never said a Chimera (nor a Taurox) didn't get a boost in price. But they might be like the Russ and be cheapER than what everyone else has to pay. Here's to hoping.

>>53527051
>implying Crud was involved
I'll believe it the day he actually starts playing Tyranids

This is probably all Phil Kelly's doing.

>>53527017
Field presence. Oh well, doesn't matter really. I'll definitely be doing vets and bullgryn if mech guard is more viable. Need to fight against the rush of melee armies and blobs do a great job of countering that.

>>53526706
Tau player who stopped playing for while your faggoty waac cunts took the faction. Blueberries are back baby & we're BALANCED this edition!

>>53527065
i havent seen this much doom and gloom in awhile... i certainly hope you guys are blowing this out of proportion

>>53526961
I know you either haven't done that or don't know how, because I know at least boyz are significantly more points efficient versus tacticals than tacticals are versus boyz now. I haven't run the numbers on anything else yet, but I'll post math and prove that you're talking out of your ass later, when I'm not phoneposting.

>>53527073
I take that back. It matters for S 4, 7, 8, 14 and 15.

>>53526785
No he fucking wasn't you retarded newfag. He was named Carnac because he's a necron fanboy first and foremost.

>>53527009
Having that and prescience going off every turn is already better psychic reliability than any army other than CSM and maybe eldar had access to without pink horrors on the field. I think people are underestimating the value of having a ton of mortal wound sources with untold reliability compared to 7th. Double move warp talons/bikers don't even need to deep strike to basically guarantee first turn charges.

>>53527062

>1850 points to over 2300 points

So? The baseline point limit will just adjust to the new costs. Everyone will just move to 2500 point games being the norm or something.

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>>53527041
Pathfinders are the worst. 50 points for 10 of them, and they are incredible. I don't know who thought these things should be allowed on the table.

Even with expensive equipment... they're horrific. These things cost less than ork boys. Think about that for a moment.

>>53527050
I could've sworn the leaker said they're over 200 points per, now. I'm probably mistaken.

I do remember that when flying, they have to go a minimum of 20". But they can go from FLY to HOVER mode.

>>53527065
I mean, a lot of the biggest Tau stuff got similar point increases, and Markerlights got nerfed

You're basing a lot of this off of the point listings when we haven't even seen what special rules or changes there might be to most of the profiles.

Yeah, a Battlewagon is like 60 extra points now if you take it barebones, but a Riptide is 100 even if you try to take as little as possible, and then it'll be terrible.

>>53527065
so you're saying orks are worse than tau still

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>>53527065
>>53527062

>>53527103
Except that troops got cheaper. So if we move to 2500 then my same sized mechanized list will be fighting an infantry list of double the model count than last edition.

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Greeting fellow gentlemen! My fellow intellectuals and I just finished a appended 1500pt game. We found micromanaging points to be intellectually stimulating unlike those uncivilized cretins using powerlevels. I think I even heard them laughing.

>>53527113
So just take things that are a steal.

If someone you play against takes anything other than Pathfinders, slap them in the face. These things are broken, and you cannot take enough of them.

>>53527124
well, troops are supposed to be the meat and potatoes of any army so im coo wit dat

>>53527088

It's the same doom and gloom that was heard from 2nd edition to 3rd edition, and 3rd edition turned out to be fine for the most part.

>>53527088
They are. Literally none of these people have even played with the new rules yet and are still thinking of things in a 7th edition mindset. So much has changed it's not even funny. The most intelligent person in the world, even if they actually posted on this godforsaken website, would not be able to accurately predict the outcomes of this many complex factors and changes using nothing but mathhammer and theorycraft.

Usually when a new Codex comes out, everything around it stays static, so it's easy to isolate the interactions that change.

This time, not only did -every Codex change at once-, but the entire core rules changes with them, and every point value across the board. No one has any accurate point of reference to begin from. It's a completely different game and I'm not going to accept anyones opinions on it until they've played a good dozen times.

>>53527134
I wish I was still 12.

>>53527099
Then who was Chaos?

>>53527015
Only 2000 points? Don't tell me you forgot the ard case

>>53527037
To keep open topped, fucking obviously
>>53527134
Don't you fucking try to shill power levels here you fucking mong

>>53526805
well it's not QUITE the same.

Before, a Lascannon pen'd a trukk on a 2 and then had a roughly 50% chance of destroying the trukk and making it useless with a single hit.

Now the trukk cannot be immobilized, cannot be stunned, cannot have its weapons destroyed, and most importantly CANNOT be destroyed in a single lascannon hit. It also is more difficult to destroy with small arms, owing to the fact that it has a save now. The boyz inside are also better protected, owning to the fact that explosions now kill them 16% of the time instead of 50% of the time.

I think vehicles are absolutely overcosted in this edition, but pretending that they're worse than vehicles in 7th is ridiculous. Nearly every codex I can think of has a handful of vehicles that people never took ever because their points were not worth the very real possibility of them dying in the first turn to a drop pod melta or something. Now we can at least see a bigger variety of shit on the field.

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>>53527062
Yeah, that's what happens when you don't have bullshit formations that give you hundreds of points of free transports, faggot.

>>53527159
Why bother? What does Open Topped do? It doesn't let your troops assault from the vehicle.

>>53527148
"thinking with a 7th edition mindset" meaning wanting to play with my existing models.

I literally can't build an 8th edition army with my existing models under 2500 points. Most of my vehicles will have to sit on the shelf because they got 50-70% price increases.

>>53527163
That's cool but we're not talking about trukks in that discussion we were talking about tanks.

A predator is still getting dropped in 2 or 3 solid lascannon/krak missile hits.

>>53527104
Pathfinders have to pay for the 3pt markerlight they carry so they're 8 points not 5 each

>>53527153
What?

>>53526767
I would argue daemon engines are much stronger though. You can't immobilize a mauler fiend

Voldus versus optimized generic grand master

Voldus is 190 points, grand master is 195

Voldus has 4 psychic powers, can cast 3 per turn and hits on a 2+ with his daemonhammer.

A grand master hits on a 3+ with his hammer, knows 2 psychic powers, can cast 2 of them per turn but has a psycannon that hits on a 2+.

Honestly this looks like a wash, either work just fine.

>>53527136
>>53527104
In case you didn't know, nobody was really taking Pathfinders last edition, and that was when Markerlights were crucial to success.

They're 8 points after you actually give them their basic kit, the same as Fire warriors, except with worse armor and fairly short ranged guns. If you want them to do any actual killing, you'll have to be buying them upgrades.

>>53527172
Yeah. Expensive equipment, but you're basically getting a firewarrior with a markerlight... for the price of a firewarrior.

Every single army should have pathfinders in it. Dozens of them. You should be making every single enemy unit glow fucking red.

Why would you EVER take firewarriors over pathfinders now?

>>53527171
>I literally can't build an 8th edition army with my existing models under 2500 points. Most of my vehicles will have to sit on the shelf because they got 50-70% price increases.

I don't know why you have this mentality because you are perfectly able to field a viable Army with less vehicles. You'll just have... less vehicles.

Or are you utterly obsessed with winning every game you try? You know you might still be able to win with less vehicles.

>>53526697
Why did you do something dumb like that?

>>53527173
If he is cron then why Chaos fanboying?

>>53527168
I have 0 free transports. I'm not using a formation other than the 1st company one which I'm filling with cataphractii, sternguard, and vanguard.

My predator squadron went from 285 to 513 points. My transports doubled in price. My terminators increased by about 30%. My librarian almost doubled in cost. This shit adds up.

How about you go fuck off you mongoloid piece of shit?

>>53527170
Holy shit dude if you're talking out of your ass you could at least be honest about it. Some people might be retarded enough to believe you.

>>53527208
Well? What does the rule do? Go ahead and tell us.

>>53526706
New Riptides are great, get lost.

>>53527195
pulse rifle instead of carbine
better save

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Gun drones now cost the same as a fierwarrior and shot like a burst cannon (with slightly worse BS and forced to fire to the nearest unit). I think I will at least one to every fierwarrior squad from now on. You can also choose to allocate any wounds to drones instead of the target units.

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DE Leaks pdf. No points sadly.

>>53527200
Try reading my post, dipshit.

Yes, I can use less vehicles. And like I said, that means having the shit I bought, assembled, and painted sitting on the shelf because they're too expensive to field.

>>53526629
Rangers if you want to play shadow war. Also Rangers if you want to carry stupid shoot-the-driver tank-buster meme weaponry.

>>53527213
It allows occupants to fire out of the vehicle.

>>53526999

It's almost as if the tyranids are a shallow faction whose only narrative function is to make other factions more heroic.

Oi, Grey Knightfags, what do you all think of the rules? Seem pretty good overall, T1 presence will be pretty damn scary.

Though RIP psycannon, good night my sweet ID'ing daemon prince

>>53527213
>the rule do? Go ahead an

Allows you to shoot out of the damned vehicle you bitch

>>53527203
There is no proof that they are even the same person. I don't even think the original Carnac even posted as an actual namefag. He just became a boogeyman and newfags like you try to fit and and call every anon they disagree with as Carnac.

I can't believe people are actually COMPLAINING that there have been so many price hikes

You do realize that this means you need LESS models to play games in more average point ranges, and the fact that EVERYONE seems to be getting these price hikes means that if your 1500 point list is suddenly 2500 points, it's quite likely your opponent's 1500 point list is also 2500 points unless he was running nothing but infantry.

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>>53527222
theres this

>>53527213
it lets you shoot out of it you fucking mongoloid, and it doesn't cost points whereas 'ard top will cost points and will only matter against guns that are strength 4, 7, 8, 14 or 15, and since we haven't seen either of the last two yet it only really matters against strength 4, 7 and 8.

>>53527225
You realize most people who play this game don't bring their entire fucking collection to every game, right? Or do you think every single person who owns 5000 points of models bitches that 5000 points isn't the standard game size?

You have options now, and from those options you can build different army lists. Or you can find opponents who want to play larger points games who also have large collections.

>>53527049

Hahaha....HAHAHAHAA oh man dude you must have no friends.

>>53527225
So
fucking
what

A lot of shit gets shelved with each edition, or taken off the shelf. You should expect by now, nerd!

They are the winners of 8thbowl? Because
Considering what can be reading here, it seems

>>53527222
>Same 3 special characters

Rules are solid enough but I'll never forgive them for taking away the duke.

>>53527225
That's unfortunate man. But there would be plenty of people screaming if it went the other way too. If GW were "forcing" them to buy more models.

>>53526705
70 point trukks, 55 point buggies.

>>53527241
Anyone will literally complain about anything. They've been doing it for every change for years.

GW could cut all prices in half tomorrow and someone would complain that their army got devalued.

Y'all niggas complainging about a battlewagon being 350 if you take LITERALLY EVERY UPGRADE. Why not just take a barebones wagon with a deffrola/killkannon? You can't get weapon destroyed or immobilized anymore.

161 for a tougness 7, 16 wound model with a 4+ is incredible. Doomsayers please go away

>>53527225

SHOULD HAVE STUCK IN THE SKIRMISH GAME MODEL NUMBER RANGE.

WE OLD SCHOOL 40K AGAIN.

>>53527264
Those are the ones with models.

>>53527241
Not everything is getting price hikes. Some shit is way cheaper.

Vanguard went from 22ppm to 18ppm as an example. Most 1 wound infantry in the game got cheaper.

>>53527267
Or they could just keep the model count the same, that works too.

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>>53527259

>>53527053
What mandatory model do you not own?

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>>53527274
>GW could cut all prices in half tomorrow and someone would complain that their army got devalued.
Holy balls, it's funny because it's true, I can picture it already

>>53527270
Trukks have 7 wounds and can't instadie

>>53527229
>>53527235
and where in the rules does it say a regular transport doesn't let you do that?

hint: nowhere

open topped is an unneccessary rule

gw forcing hordes and heroes
buy crates of infantry and all the pricey hq stuff no one wanted to buy that much before

Im gonna field all my trukks and battlewagons with no models that arent vehicles on the table EXCEPT one big mek holding a giant remote control.

Give all the vehicles all the upgrades.

>>53527291

I'd rather they reduce the average model number so that it's easier for new players to get into the game without having to spend a shitload of money.

Can I see the Defiler profile please?

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>>53527281
>Have vect model
>Can't field vect

>>53527300
What are the trukk stats? I've been sitting in these generals almost all day and have seen neither hide nor hair of them.

>>53527291
I'd rather they try their best to balance things rather than try to keep all the points the same as 7th.

>>53527291
>Or they could just keep the model count the same, that works too.
No, fuck off. The game has needed to be rebalanced and rescaled for a long time.

It's not everyone else's fault you field a boring fucking parking lot of boxes in what should have always stayed an infantry-centric skirmish game.

>>53527276
That's not even barebones. Unlike a lot of things, that 161 is the actual minimum price for a Battlewagon if all you want is a durable transport.

Everything else seems really situational and dependent on what you're running. Main loadouts I would expect are Killcannon only for Loota bunker, or 'ard case+deffrolla for a more dangerous assault threat.

>>53527300
Trukks can die to lasguns easily, and also, transports in general are now almost useless.

>>53527322
They talked about it in the faction focus, i believe

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>>53526706

>>53527325
There's lots of infantry-centric skirmish games. Can I point you to a few? 40k hasn't been that for a long time and I wouldn't have bought these models if it was.

>>53527312
>EXCEPT one big mek holding a giant remote control
I love you and I love this idea. Ork players are always so creative, it's a damn shame you guys get shit on by GW.

>>53527291
>Not everything is getting price hikes. Some shit is way cheaper.

Yeah, Infantry is getting cheaper, while vehicles, bikes, battlesuits, and large shit is getting more expensive to accounts for their new levels of durability.

That's the way it is for basically everyone.

>>53527333
they did not

>>53527308
it says it in the embarked part of the transports you ass; the models don't count as being on the table. So you cant shoot with them. Open topped gives you special permission to count them as being 'from any point on the hull'

or do you think 'count as not being on the table' means they can still shoot? Can I shoot you with the stompa I have on the shelf behind me?

You're a fuck.

>>53527333
nope

>>53527332
>18" range on lasguns
>wounding on 6's
i see

>>53527276
/tg/ is bad at games

>>53527351
Where'd you get that 18" from? If it's not on a datasheet, ignore it.

>>53527226
Hrm. I was leaning that way anyways, as I love the look of the longer-barreled rifles. Thanks.

>>53527234
Grey Knights are going to be a close range army that overwhelm their enemy with lots of short range fire, mortal wounds because every single fucker can cast smite (even if it does 1 wound it adds up) and high damage melee weapons.

Brotherhood captains double the range of Smite for nearby units, so that's 24'' in most cases. Grand Masters give re-roll to hit rolls of one. Hammerhand adds +1 to all to wound rolls in close combat. Banners give all units in range one bonus attack.

It's gonna be a compact, elite army with lots of synergy between units most likely.

>>53527291
>Or they could just keep the model count the same, that works too.

Or, you could just not be autistic about the point value that you play at, and instead adjust your preferred level for your preferred game size.

I usually like playing 1000 point games for how fast they are, but I'm not going to keep playing them if GW suddenly made everything half the price and 1000 points was suddenly the same as 2000 points. No, I would switch to 500 so I can keep playing the game the way I want.

Any leakers still awake?

>>53526939

Grey knight player here: I am downright ecstatic for being at least mid tier again.

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>>53527351
>18" range on lasguns
sauce??

>>53527308
Why would there be an exception to the rule if the rule didn't exist?
Holy shit, /tg/ is fucking terrible for discussing 40k, just a bunch of fucking reactionary spastics talking out of their asses with no actual game experience or math to back up their claims.
I'll just lurk for leaks from now on.

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>>53527321
You can't field Kruellagh the Vile either.

You know what I mean.

>be games workshop
>tell fat nerds mortal wounds will be rare and not to expect to see them often
>give every other unit the ability to cause mortal wounds
>add more randumbness into the game because that means more fun
>every other weapon has d6 shots, d6 ap, and d3 damage
>Orks are still shit
why do these faggots stay in business?

>>53526629
whichever you think looks coolest seriously - both are good

You could also do 4 rangers and a ranger alpha and 4 vanguard and a vanguard alpha, just remember they only get 1 special weapon each actually this might have changed

Also DO NOT BASE THE RANGERS/VANGUARD until after youve painted them, its almost impossible to paint the inside of the cloak when they are based

>>53526969

Honestly even at 172 I would think paying for 2 more heavy bolters isn't that bad of an idea

>>53526182
Four fucking generals and this one is about to sage too.

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If csm are "apparently" looking this bad should I still do papa nurgles lads or just kill myself?

>>53527368
Adjusting the point level means I keep the same sized army and someone with an infantry heavy army brings 50% more than they did before. Vehicles aren't that much more survivable (they won't be taken out by rear plasmagun shots anymore but a lascannon is killing heavier vehicles in less hits than it did in 7th) and aren't any better at killing infantry other than some formerly TL weapons doubling their shots.

>>53527148
> Literally everyone complaining hasn't run any test games yet
> Absolutely everyone is posting under the asumption that they should disembark their infantry BEFORE charging, so that their infantry can get in melee on turn 3 just like what we expected in 7th edition.
> When you can now Turn-1 charge with the transport, and then disembark and charge on turn-2 while the transport locks down an entire unit for the whole first turn.

The game now plays completely differently, and not everyone is adjusting well. The old-school playstyle of heavy hitting armies that sit still and do nothing isn't viable anymore. Now the game STRONGLY favours Herohammer lists with strong infantry mechanization. This is especially evident in all the heavy-elite units getting massive points increases across the board, while infantry and characters are getting buffs and points-decreases across the board.

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>>53527370
I'm happy for you GKbros, I wish you many good smites

>>53527389
You should definitely kill yourself before seeing the full rules and waiting for a couple months for people who actually know what they're doing to sort out what's actually good and actually bad.

Definitely over-react

>>53527378
The only thing that will still be shit is you, my shitty shitposter.

In the case you actually played 40k and decided to quit, good. The less retards the better.

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>>53527402
will do thanks for the advice!

>>53527383
I was planning on following Duncan's guide pretty much to the letter, aside from a few color changes, and that includes the Martian Ironearth basing at the end.

Not looking forward to doing the insides of the cloaks, they just look tedious.

>>53527048

Where the fuck did you get those points costs?

>>53527389
Why the fuck are you listening to /40kg/ on day -18? People here (including me) don't know shit yet.

>>53527391
A lot of ranged weapons also increased in price. Meltaguns are 17 now, for example.

Someone with an infantry heavy list with enough anti-tank to actually handle a vehicle heavy army would be seeing a price bump as well.

Did we ever get any rule sheets for Nurgle daemons?

>>53527378
we've heard of what maybe 8 or so sources of mortal wounds? The d6 hits are a replacement for scatter dice. The d6 ap is just ork weirdness, and the d3 damage is better than everything being 1 flat and unable to hurt monstrous creatures.

also, orks are better than people thinkwe're fired up

>>53527389
Death Guard are not included under the CSM umbrella, those guys are getting their own Codex very soon and are looking solid as fuck. Vanilla CSM are the ones in trouble (maybe)

>>53527420
Plasma is only 13. It's all over the place.

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>When you're the only Ork player excited to play
>When you wonder if the autistic overreacting spergs will ever go play another army
>When the first thing you're going to field is Nobz in Nauts with "Dread mob"

Feels good to be an Ork my dudes

>>53526669
so are there non ministorum deathcult assassins/crusaders/priests/arcoflaggents for inquisition?

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>>53527378
>why do these faggots stay in business?
Because big bad 8 foot men in tank armor with HUEG PAULDRONS

>>53526706
>Riptide reduced point cost
Ok, but not much. 50p and it's a deal.

>and riptide wing rules added to 8th.
no. leave formations in 7th and embrace 14 new focs

>>53527409
Henlo redshit
Hello you stinky redshirt
Go be a faggot ugly

>seekers of slaanesh are still a cheap as chips 19 points a model
>can be easily given double move
>putting characters on steeds is cheap and easy

hmmm

>>53527426
>we've heard of what maybe 8 or so sources of mortal wounds?
....Not the guy you're responding to but... no lad. I can list you 8 sources of mortal Wounds just off of the 4 Tyranid datasheets I've seen alone.

>>53527384
Not a bad idea at all.

So.... slaanesh melee build.
You have DttFE that gives you an extra attack on a roll of 6, the icon of slaanesh increase that to a 5+, but THEN you can cast prescience to increase each to hit roll by one, making it so you get an extra attack on basically 4+.
WE ARE AMPLIFIED!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsGRsDe3iRw

>>53527427
>Combi-weapons have unlimited use
>Abbadon now baller as fuck
>Biggest issue CSM had - no assault transports for reasonable point cost - is now gone
>'In trouble'

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ftw DE and Necrons got buffed to hell.

>>53527431
Plasma also isn't very good for anti-tank, since it still only does 1 damage unless you overcharge.

>>53527234

Looking good so far, I already have my list drawn up.

I'm thankful that it seems like I can substitute dreadnoughts for dreadknights now, I never wanted to end up buying one of those baby carriers.

>>53527417
The leaker guy from earlier.

Therefor, it's just a rumor. But it's all we got for now.

so have the eldar rules been LEAKED yet?

>>53527296

He's refering to the imagifier, which is what allows us to use more acts of faith. Basically a sister with a similucrum.

>>53526947
Where? Show us!

Necron Character Pages where?

I wanna see the important army centric stuff other than Vargard and Geezer

>>53527470
I'm sorry I don't understand what you're asking. Do you mean Aeldari™ ?

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>>53527455

Roll for anal circumference

>>53527433
I'm with you, brother. I'm really excited to plonk my boyz down on the table for the first time in years, no matter what these know-nothing sperglords say

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So based on everything we've seen, what do you think, anons?

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>>53527433
I have recovered from my probably irrational despair (due to more expensive transports mainly).

I am back to being optimistic about how da boyz do in action! Enuff o' dis thi-ree squigshit!

IZ GOOD TO BE GREEN BOYZ!

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!

>>53527441
>babby's first insult

>>53527420
Sure, but meltaguns going up 7 and lascannons going up 5 doesn't really compare with my predators going up 60+ points.

A 4 lascannon devastator squad went from 150 to 165. A predator annihilator went from 140 to 202, a destructor from 95 to 171.

>>53527489
That's the spirit lad

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What would be the best way to paint this? Photoshop? Is there a way to get rid of the all the white automatically or something?

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>>53527487
the filename says it all

>>53527513
Print it out and grab the magic markers

>>53527370
as on ork player... i am too. i'm happy to be just okay :)

>>53527483
have the Aeldari™ Rules Books for Games Workshop™ Warhammer: 40,000™ been LEAKED yet?

>>53527505
And both of those tanks got significantly tougher and shootier

>>53527489
Let me fix this for you.

Two units of Flash Gitz in a Battlewagon costs over 800 points.

>>53527524
Only the Drukhari™ so far :^)

>>53527504
>green texting

>>53527489
>>53527528
My bad, 8000, I forgot a 0.

Oh, and that's without the 'Ard case so they can still shoot

>>53527378
>>tell fat nerds mortal wounds will be rare and not to expect to see them often
>>give every other unit the ability to cause mortal wounds
We've seen almost everything. And it still seems to be mostly Psykers. I Noticed that Dark had a few weapons like Stunclaws, Grav-talons, and flesh gauntlets that cause them, but they don't have Psykers. Tankbustas cause them but blow themselves up to do it. Plus theres some big boy weapons that do. Overall, not very common.

>>add more randumbness into the game because that means more fun
Al lot of randomness left. Turn order isn't as random. Reserves aren't random. Vehicles no longer instantly explode on lucky rolls.
>>every other weapon has d6 shots, d6 ap, and d3 damage
Random AP is very rare. as for damage and shots, not that every unit is either a bunch of wounds or a bunch of models you're likely to operate more under the law of averages one lucky shot is unlikely to kill most things. It will take voilume of fire and that means the the dice are going to be less random that they appear individually.
>>Orks are still shit
I'll point to where everyone seem to think they're shit. They can't all be right.

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>>53527487

>>53526654
Looks fine, lot of points costs hint towards re-balancing stats anyhow.

>>53526914
But they are getting price drops, anon.
Higher point cost means less models to buy :^)

>>53527543
is this a new meme or something

Well speaking of price increases, my formerly 2600-ish points of grey knights became 3688 points in 8th ed.

This is almost entirely due to vehicle costs going up and terminators going up 13 points for the second wound.

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>>53527487

you got it right anon.mostly
Ad Mech is greater tier tho

>keks for me playing master races
>feels good man

>>53527222

You the man, man.

So far I'm thinking:

Succubus with glaive and B-Pistol
Archon with Agonizer and B-Pistol

Wyches x8 w/Gauntlet, Phantom Launcher, Agonizer, and B-Pistol
+1S Drug
Raider with D-Cannon

Kabalites x10 with Blaster, Lance, and phantom launcher in raider with Lance

Kabalites x10 with Blaster, Lance, and phantom launcher in raider with Lance

Bloodbrides x10 w/3 Shardnets, Agonizer, and Phantom Launcher
+1A drug
Raider w/D-Cannon

Trueborn w/4 Blasters
Venom with Cannons

Hellions x20
+1T drug

Reavers x3
Blaster and Grav

Reavers x3
Blaster and Grav

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>>53527528
Ah, but you see I don't have any Flash Gitz.

Checkmate

>>53527435
Run them in an allied detachment or use the Imperium keyword.

>>53527548
see
>>53527528

>>53527545
I am really hoping my Tempestus is at least average tier. Love them guys

>>53527454

The lack of legion rules is a slap in the face, though.

>>53527525
Enlighten me on how they got significantly tougher and shootier.

4 lascannons vs 2 lascannons and a TL lascannon isn't significantly shootier. The predator autocannon has more shots but is also a lot weaker per shot at killing light vehicles (it takes 4 unsaved wounds to kill a trukk when it used to take 2 glances/pens).

And they're no tougher against anti tank weapons, if anything they're less durable against all the various D6 damage stuff.

The only survivability boost they got was against things that are now high S but low damage, and they can't be immobilized and stunned. That's not worth 60 points.

>>53527559
did you respond to the wrong image?

>>53527471
But who doesn't have a few of them?

>>53527521
>magic markers
Im sorry?

So the masque of slaanesh has a locus that makes all daemonettes within 6" subtract one from hit rolls against them, and the dance is now choose a unit and give all units targeting +1? Daemons are gonna be nasty with their buffs around

>>53527483
Aeldari refers to all the knife ears. See >>53527222

>>53527470
Nope

Guard leaks when? I will show boobs for them.

>>53527608
Boobs first

>>53527562
A stompa costs more than two knights, despite being worse in every concievable way.

>>53527555

If they have their way it will be.

So... basic wargear is included in the points right?
Burnaboys cost 14 points and burnas are free anyway.
But tankbustas cost just 5 points base...and rokkit launchas are 12 points...
Im confuse

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Mfw when I play DE

pay back time motherfuckers

>>53527608
boobs first

>>53527580
There are also no more chapter tactics for loyalists. Imagine how much those spoiled brats are wailing about that.