/pfg/ - Pathfinder General

https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/75856/dimensional-ark-abyssia
https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/77814/ensoulment-of-the-flower-court
https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/77293/ironfang-invasion-adventure-path
https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/78224/chronicles-of-the-golden-chalice
https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/77201/essentia-forgotten-home
https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/78606/hells-saboteurs
https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/77329/something-wicked-comes-this-way

>>53507091
Molthune Knights, because people got genuinely angry at that one.

Shout-out to Iteration Drive for conducting an excquisire bamboozle of HV.

>>53507153
>Iteration Drive
I always hated that nigger during the RotJR recruitment. Guy couldn't stop making shitty fetish fuel characters and then shilling them in the fucking thread all day.

>>53507091
>What great /pfg/ bamboozle was your favorite?
Ensoulment of the Flower Court.

>>53507153
I didn't get mad about Molthune. I mostly just hope nothing bad happened to the GM. He never came online on discord at all after that, not just in the server but in general.

>>53507153
Got a link to that archived thread for Molthune Knights. I wanna see how salty /pfg/ got

>>53507262
NOT LiKE THIS

>>53507262
THE SALT WILL FLOW

>>53507288
Here's the announcement of picks:
http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/51149150/#51150722

I'm not sure that there's any particular centralized salt zone relating to the bamboozle that happened.

>>53507315
No, the bamboozling was after one session

>>53507591
Here's another.
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/51523016/#51523493

>>53507274
Dude probably used a throwaway. I don't feel bad for the bamboozle bullshitter

>>53507091
Some people were talking about Singing Androids in the last thread. Any other weird ideas you want to share, /pfg/?

Maybe a Ratfolk Soldier that uses powersuits to be able to reach the high shelves?

A Vesk Healer who is garbage at combat until a friend really gets hurt?

A chef from one of those 4-armed psychic races?

>>53507693

Is there any more information about the other races? We know a bit more about the Shirran, androids, and Vesk and I assume the Lashunta are from before starfinder (although I don't know what their cultures is like aside from they can choose to be one of two forms) what about the four armed guy?

That said, A shirran chef seems totally in order, someone who's all about sampling different foods and isn't afraid to have a thicker thorax in the process because they take to the field as a mercencary or bounty hunter or something that will let them travel.

>>53507654
I know friend. I was there. I was too there

>>53507825
Got a log of the session? When all your hopes and dreams were set alight, only to be dashed to the ground soon after?

>>53507693

I want to work for a rat and annoy her with my free-wheeling attitude.

>>53507818
There's a few, blurry images that got posted to the Starfinder Reddit thread. I know Hell Knight Anon will be happy to see them called out. I'm pretty sure I saw some job stuff like Ace Pilot and Mercenary

>>53507839
I didn't save it. Nothing particularly interesting even happened during the session. Just brief character introductions

>>53507862
How did you feel afterwards?

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>>53507841
Play one of the Lizard races. Pick up the R@ and treat them like a child.

>>53507857

A savvy Ratfolk Technomancer who wants to MAKE AKITON GREAT AGAIN by bringing in new business and being a celebrity about it.

>>53507891
I was disappointed, but it didn't hit me terribly hard.

The bamboozle meant I could use Thursday nights to get through some last minute refresher studying for Friday tests

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I hope paizuri gets rules for mecha out soon after starfinder releases!

What's the most degenerate meme build you can think of without using 3pp or full-casters?

>>53507986
Play a Wizard.

>>53507979
Why do you care? Battle Century G does mecha far better.

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>>53508003
I dunno man, you tell me

>>53508033
Expand your horizons for once.

What is the consensus on the current version of Bloodforge? Got someone asking to use it for my game.
DSP seemed to have overtuned the races like PoW though I can't say for sure without the revised version.

>>53508156
They are somewhat stronger than Aasimar/Tieflings, but desu they aren't as strong as to count as a level higher. Giving an extra bonus feat at level 1 to not-bloodforge races should balance it out.

Which apps in flower court are imperials?

>>53508191
>Giving an extra bonus feat at level 1 to not-bloodforge races should balance it out.
>Humans with 2 bonus feats

>>53508200
What?

>>53508223
I mean like from the old empire, from the old capitol.

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>>53508232
Serena is a Centurion

>>53507918
Sounds like someone who would be on those Discovery Channel shows. Just goes around Akiton doing things and highlighting how awesome a place it is supposedly

>>53507979
We are getting those soon after Starfinder drops. I want to play AS the mecha

>>53508215
This guy has a point. Human is pretty freaking strong already.
Bloodforge has some weird design decision like scaling racial features such as the Aellar's multiple bonus feats. Should have just left it as racial feats they can take.

>>53507091
TSS, because everyone should have known better.

why is DHB such a bad writer?

Im DM'ing curse of the crimson throne.
1st d20 game i have ever played.
our wiz has played since fucking dnd 2nd edition
our barb min maxed the fuck out of his char and made his gf tiefling paladin to buff him
our ranger is Dualweilding shields......like a retard.

what do i do about the wiz that keeps useing black tenticle on everyhing?

>>53508778
Freedom of Movement
Liberating Command
Enemies with CMDs higher than he can reliably grapple.

>>53508852
he only does it on casters with hella low cmd

>>53508864
Then use the other two, or keep the casters from being targeted.

Or have multiple combats in a day, so he can't drop BT in every fight.

>>53508877
hes only allowed to use it every other session and has 2x memorized and saves them for boss fights

>>53508894
>hes only allowed to use it every other session
Huh?

>saves them for boss fights
Then give the boss Freedom of Movement. This really isn't a hard fix.

>>53508877
or he summons gravity elementals

>>53508917
>or he summons gravity elementals

Per Dev clarification, you can only summon the base 4 elementals.

Even if he could summon other things, Gravity Elementals are 3rd party from a notoriously shitty developer. Say no.

>>53508894
we made an agreement that he can only use that spell every other session to make it more fair

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>>53508970
>what do i do about the wiz that keeps useing black tenticle on everyhing?
>we made an agreement that he can only use that spell every other session to make it more fair

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>>53508894
>hes only allowed to use it every other session
That reeks of horrible DM'ing.

>>53509148
Its my 1st time ever DMing and i never played any D20 prior to this, it was his idea

>>53509148
Maybe he shouldn't have picked a wizard in the first place, then, instead of suggesting cuck options like only using his things once every other session.
9-casters and first time DM's are a very poor match.

>>53509170
Derp, I misquoted. Meant to quote >>53509163

>>53509170
fuck you guys are mean, i guess i should just go back to WH 40k

>>53509163
Better get use to soft banning/limiting spells my man >>53509170 said it well.
9th level casters are the strongest characters in the game, and the Wizard is the top of the top.

>>53509228
It varies from time to time, really, pathfinder as a whole isn't very new DM friendly. Very easy to break and needs a good DM to keep everything in check.
Which no one is the first time around.

>>53509253
the wiz is trying to help me as much as he can in non meta-gaming as possible, he already DM this entire path a few yeas ago so he basiclaly remembers a good chunk of it. and hes basically just trying to make sure every one has fun and i learn as much as possible.
i dont think im going to dm ever again lol shits rough

>>53509304
Haha, well it the group is having a good time it's all fine.
And I don't blame you, there's a lot when dming a game of pathfinder. And know what your plays got and their plans for the characters help much more then you think!

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What is the best way to build a scholarly character with absolutely zero magical ability?

>>53509712
You're out of luck without Spheres of Might or other 3pp.

Seriously there's no INT focused class that has absolutely nothing to do with spells or alchemy besides arguably the Lore Warden Fighter.

But
>Lore Warden

Best 1pp bet is an Investigator and you flavor all your alchemy as just good medicine.

>>53509712
What do you mean by magical ability?
1pp you're screwed
3pp the best I got is PoW warder who is an uses Int as their mental mod for their "fighting magic"

>>53509712
Vigilante with a 3pp social talent that lest you use Int instead of Cha for your class features.

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>>53509712
If you're willing to forgo most scholarly pursuits in exchange for deeply intimate knowledge of how every monster in the world ever works, you can roll with an Order of the Hero Cavalier with the Disciple of the Pike archetype. At level 4 you essentially have your level on a bonus to ID monsters; it'd be very easy to say your character is writing a bestiary, and traveling the world to find out more about such creatures as he's only found in storybooks.

It's probably a bit more heavily armed and armored than you're going for, though.

>>53509871
>Lances are under spears.
So... that's what, triple damage with an extra +2 bonus on a charge at level 3?
Though, they lose the free mount for a minor AC bonus...

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>>53509997
I believe you can also multiply challenge damage. But yeah, losing the mount class feature hurts, though that said, that makes this a much more useful archetype when you're in a dungeon or something.

Still, it's a solid archetype, and if you take Heal you can pretend to be a Witcher with the best of them.

>>53510041
Oh, indeed. A mount can be replaced. Especially if you DM let's you skip the retarded psudo-skill focus in the feat chain to get an animal companion up to snuff.

>>53510072
Plus, with Weapon Training you can pick up Advanced Weapon Training to get access to Warrior's Spirit!

>>53510095
Well, if your GM isn't a dick about
>Prereq: Fighter 5th
Because that's always been a retarded stipulation.

>>53510150
Ah, forgot about that bit.

Still, that's stupid enough that I imagine most GMs would let you bypass it as long as you have Weapon Training in the first place, since Weapon Training is largely just good for getting access to Advanced Weapon Training these days (even if the damage increase is nice)

This is a stupid question but the PoW description for Soul Hunter's Soul Burn mechanic says

"This inflicts an additional 1d6 points of damage at 1st level upon a successful attack, and this damage increases by an additional 1d6 points of damage every four soul hunter levels"

Does the phrase every four soul hunter levels mean it progresses at 1/5/9/13/17 or 1/4/8/12/16/20?

Probably the former but I have to ask

>>53510336
The phrasing means that, by RAW, it's the latter. You're looking at a 1/4/8/12/16/20 progression.

>>53510373
Nice!

aaaaaaaaa

Rules question about variant channeling. When I channel positive energy to damage undead, do I apply the "harm" effect?

>>53510877
Yes, but desu, variant channeling is only worth it for the Heal effects when they are good, because it makes for a passable to solid buff. Harming means you deal minimal damage and the enemy can save against the secondary effect.

>>53510918
I thought that the saving throw was only one, that both halved the damage reduced the variant effect.

>>53510934
You are already dealing halved damage because variant channeling (And channel energy baseline already scales like shit), which means that if the enemies save (and yes, it's only one save), you completely wasted your action for most purposes. And because cleric doesn't do cha-primary, the save is going to be easy to pass for anything but mooks.

>It's summer
>All the other boards are buckling under kids swarming the threads
>Absolutely nothing about /pfg/ changes

IT'S
NOT
FAIR

>>53510975
?

>>53508713
He's passing on his role and notoriety to Vult

The magus and the healslut are only the beginning.

>>53510975
>It's summer
Anon, summer doesn't start until next month!

>>53510975
Do you want a swarm of goblins? Or a classroom of future heroes?

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>>53511039
>Goblins
>Swarm of goblins

>>53510975
>school somehow means kids don't frequent 4cha

All boards are shit, summer is just a convenient, albeit retarded excuse. Hell, I visited this site more when I was still in school than I do nowadays.

Someone redpill me on Golden Chalice GM

>>53511114
He's actually Pillbug Podiker. He puts random traps with poison in them around the thread for fun.

>>53511033
Most schools where I'm from had May 25th as their last day.

>>53511039
>>53511063
I WANTED SWARMS OF DUMB-ASS KIDS ASKING STUPID QUESTIONS SO WE CAN BE THE WISE OLD FARTS ANSWERING TRIVIA THAT COULD REINVIGORATE THE THREAD.

>>53511136
Have any happy pillbugs turned up lately?

>>53511136
What I mean is please tell me about the guy since I consider his campaign

I've been told he doesn't like when people try to get creative in his setting

>>53511170
>I've been told he doesn't like when people try to get creative in his setting

Sometimes it's scary to be creative, anon. Especially in a setting where minotaur are a thing.

>>53511170
He thinks himself the pinnacle of creativity and showcased it in saying to people that since they didn't join his game they are "losing out on the best sandbox experience out there". Not a direct quote, might be completely wrongly phrased but context remains.

>>53510975

The average age of /pfg/ implies that we've been under Eternal Summer since high profile lewdgames became a thing.

We can't be swarmed with kids because we're already in that state.

The average age of this thread's users is like 21, and I'm being generous.

Seriously. Go ask notorious players their ages.

>>53511146
That's... a noble purpose, I guess.

>>53511170
>he doesn't like when people try to get creative in his setting
Define "get creative".

>>53511271
But Broodie is a christmas cake

>>53511207
To his defense he sounds like he IS competent and also puts a lot of work in. But I feel this makes him too locked down and prevents player from contributing to world lore.

>>53511303
Well...Your PC's culture

Maybe the background of his race, stuff like that.

It makes it a sandbox but not that much. Chargen is autistically important to me.

>>53511197
His are diet minotaurs.

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You know, with the popularity of MOBA, Team-based and otherwise "heroic" ensembles of characters, I'm surprised nobody around here has tried to make a campaign built around each party member already being a big deal in the world. Level 1 is a nobody, level 3 is that painful in-between having a name and not really, and level 5's just being a reliable name, not a name worth mentioning outside of a business meeting.

I want to write a character worthy of their name, dammit! Sure, that's what a campaign is supposed to do, but it's hardly the same!

>>53511417
Aren't they just like 6 feet tall and muscular? As it goes, that's truer to the original myth than the 15 foot Tauren assholes you see stomping about, but it still feels weird.

Best animals to turn into for a beastkin berserker?

>>53511489
Your mom

>>53511399
I mean, there's lots of people applying 'out of the norm'! I'm sure you could ask him!

P M H I M and ask to play whatever you want!

>>53511454
I'll explain, keep reading.

>>53511510
...I did. And his gnolls are 'culture-wiped'. So are his minotaurs. In his story they got conquered by some empire and they completely abandonned all their culture, traditions, everything, without even putting up a fight.

Which is not the races I wanna play, sorry.

>>53511554
They probably did have an uprising. I bet it failed. If it's like Rome, it probably quelled any dissent quite well.

>>53511146
Oh all right. First the tl;dr

I've been playing since this whole mess was owned by TSR and it was Advanced, but still can't design encounters for shit. Last night my big fight got shut down by the whole party going invisible and enemies lacking counters to it. Told the party they could mop up without any effective resistance, they offered suggestions on how to counter invisibility. I just feel shitty about pulling stuff like that out of thin air, suddenly giving Int 7 enemies a bunch of murderhobo tactics and the like.

So, what sort of checklist do I need for every mid to high level encounter to keep enemies at least a mild threat instead of just being wastes of time? Flight, blindsight, miss chance, high saves, at-will SoL?

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If I wanted to run a thieves guild type campaign, but not with all the magic chicanery that happens in golarion, I could do that right?

Just cut it out, limit what goes on in the real world. The players would not be too decked but then the point would not be to get decked out anyways.

Or would something like E6 or E8 work better? I dont really want to use a different system because no one is interested in them.

>>53511618
Well, quoting the GM... They only did one, the legions of notRome killed them all, then raised dead, sent the dead to massacre the whole city women and children, burned it, salted the fields and cursed it so that no city may rise back here. And that was all it took to never rebel again apparently.

They apparently did not try to resist culturally at all too because they wanted what civilization brought them and he described it as "quick and quiet". Also the Empire did not want any reason for them to dissent so culture forcing.

>>53511699
Look up the Automatic Bonus Progression system, and ask us how to improve it because we HAVE found ways to fix it.

>>53511699
A different system would be better.

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>>53511711
>Automatic Bonus Progression

That is interesting and I will look more into that. I guess my only thing is, high level in pf is all about fighting high level things. I would not expect thieves in a limited magical world to face dragons or demons, just guards and traps. More focus on stealth.

I wish more people were willing to play different systems, maybe I should just quit while I am ahead.

>>53511744
you should quit

>>53511702
Fuck off, furfag. You were rejected because noone wants to appease your furry fetish by altering a complex and elaborate setting through allowing you to rewrite a lot of it to insert a fetish race.

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>>53511740

The problem is no one wants to play a new system. And I am not sure how to adapt a high magic system to something that is relatively low magic in practice.

>>53511761
GM detected, holy fuck you are so pretentious.

>>53511771
Pathfinder doesn't function at low magic, it just DOESN'T.

Just bring another system to the table, as long as its simple, people will play it if you sell them on it

>>53511782
>GM detected
Guessed wrong :^)

>>53511796
Dude you're painfully obvious, just like when you were here going ITS THE BEST SANDBOX EXPERIENCE OF ALL TIME

>>53511761
Nice b8, but I'll use it to elaborate if you don't mind

Are you gonna ignore how his Rome on crack and what it can do is pretty impossible, and how culture-wiping is the worst thing you can do to a race in fantasy? If you want to remove them so much, make them humans.

>>53511808
>>53511782
I don't think it's him, Anon. When we talked he was articulate and uninterested in an argument.

>>53511808
Not like I can convince you of something you actively don't want to believe in.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>>53511812
>Are you gonna ignore how his Rome on crack and what it can do is pretty impossible, and how culture-wiping is the worst thing you can do to a race in fantasy? If you want to remove them so much, make them humans.
I don't know much about his setting desu and I don't know how his Rome works or what the history is.
But gnolls are an instant fur fetish red flag and anyone requesting to play one is simply a furry who should be rejected without discussion.

>>53511840
Then its a dicksucker buddy of his from the discord

>>53511808
I mean, it's nobody's fault that you can't play a savage race. That's their nature. If he doesn't think gnolls fit in with his setting? Fine, his choice, he's the DM. No need to complain about it.

>>53511860
Doesn't mean he's not a cunt

>>53511771

People are going to tell you it can't be done. /pfg/ has a particular view of what pathfinder is and what pathfinder is not, and once you step out of bounds it will be called shit, unfun, broken, etc. This view doesn't even match up to what paizo itself produces, so take it all with a grain of salt.

If you want to run a game without supermagic going on, then curb those elements. It will take house rules. Reduce or restrict the choice of classes, especially those who specialize in casting. Raise the cost of magical items, or lower the total wealth, or set a straight ceiling closer to what 5e has. Those two dials alone give you a huge amount of leverage in setting the campaign tone.

>>53511871
How? Just because he didn't let you play a race he didn't feel fits with his setting?

>>53511881
See, its not that we have a view of what pathfinder is and is not, its that we actually understands the systems at work in Pathfinder, and what actually functions, and what does not

Low magic does not function in Pathfinder.

Now fuck off, there's plenty of great systems for a lower magic campaign, hell, 5e is better for lower magic in every way.

But this isn't just a low magic, its a muh realism campaign, which means LITERALLY DO NOT PLAY PATHFINDER, IT WILL BREAK UNDER THE PRESSURE.

Look, I believe that Pathfinder can do a lot of things, it can function in a lot of ways, but the one way in which it cannot function, is low magic 'realism'

>>53511884
Pretty much the way he's acted in the thread, I've never asked him to play in his game because I've seen how he acts and knew he would be a cunt from the start.

>>53511915
Okay, that's fine. If he's a cunt he's a cunt. Doesn't mean he can't reserve the right to approve/deny races as he wishes.

>>53511860
He took gnolls and basically castrated them. Removed what made them gnolls. I'm talking about culture-wiping a fantasy race here, I'm not calling him an asshole and I'm not attempting to dictate him anything.

>>53511871
Geez man, what has he done to you?

>>53511884
It's... Not me.

>>53511906

It works fine.

Sorry if you can't have fun without engaging in minmaxy build autism though.

>>53512004
>Removed what made them gnolls

"Violent cannibal rapists" isn't exactly a conducive race for roleplay.

>>53512030
then why have gnolls at all

>>53512052
Fetishes.

>>53511906

I keep hearing "it doesn't work!" while having the experience of it working just fine. The mechanics are just mechanics. You can take a hammer and chisel to them until they do what you want.

The real trick is having players who are on board. If the players are keen on the campaign pitch, then they aren't going to engage in autistic screeching at the tweaks. They will help you plan and build their characters accordingly. If the players want to play classic pathfinder and you ambush them with a bunch of house rules, it may not work out well.

>>53512052

Because furries need a million flavors of noble savage to masturbate over.

>>53512030
Not having a human culture, Anon. Having different values from a different life. That is what sorts any race apart, be it gnoll, mino, dwarf, halfling, kobold, elf. Not just physical appearance.

>>53508232
CCC.

>>53512064
>The real trick is having players who are on board. If the players are keen on the campaign pitch, then they aren't going to engage in autistic screeching at the tweaks

Oh my god, thank you. 90% of all the screeching and squealing that goes on around here is white-room faggotry focusing on figures that won't come up in most campaigns. People who bitch and moan about "low-magic" campaigns have either never played a low-magic campaign, or played a bad one and never bothered to figure out how it was bad and what could be changed.

That's the real tragedy here, we say something's jank without working out a way to unjank it.

>>53512068
Sounds like you just can't RP original gnolls. See them more as a tough race from tough lands, surviving how they know to, basically Warcraft orcs.

>>53512112
>See them more as a tough race from tough lands, surviving how they know to, basically Warcraft orcs.
That's literally the Noble Savage.

>>53512064
Right but what you're doing is trying to make a statue out of cake. It isn't actually impossible, but why bother when you could be using a system actually suited to realism instead of trying to chisel fucking 3.5e to it?

>>53512161
so original

>>53512022
Stop sucking paizo cock you goddamn retard.
You have to throw out basically everything past CR2-3 in order for "low magic" to work, because the system cannot fucking handle it.

What are they gonna do? Grab a crossbow? Oh look, it's slow "because muh realism" but it can't penetrate or hurt anything for shit because "fuck realism magic wins.

But it gets worse.

Mechanically the system is built around magical bonuses being the be-all-end-all of your basic capability. The fighter needs magic stuff to hit and to survive incoming attacks. He depends on that resistance bonus to make any saves. The paladin's almost entirely magical. And even [EX] mundane status effects and abilities have been balanced around the idea that by that level the counters are readily available. Like poison, for example. It's not just deadly, it's basically everywhere, to make up for the fact that it's so easy to eliminate - but only doable through spells.

The MORE low-magic you get the worse off the LEAST magical classes get, and the wider the gap becomes in favor of whatever magic DOES remain. Pathfinder's just no good at this.

Meanwhile you can go 100% no-magic in GURPS and never even fucking notice it.

>>53512096
It usually helps to also have aGM who actually has the rest of the world be as "low magic" as the players, or is willing to adjust ABP to be functional.

"Low magic" is not necessarily "low fantasy"

>>53512096
People claiming no-magic works in pathfinder are always backing it with extensive houseruling and special restrictions like "if all you ever meet is other mundane humans". And even then it would be less work and more effective (you won't stand there and pretend pathfinder's the best mechanics around) to use basically any other system to pull this off.

Why not do it in Pendragon?
Why not do it in GURPS?
Why not do it in 5e? Or 2e where you could actually get away with it by simply not using monsters that are immune to weapons under a certain +?
Fuck even Iron Heroes or Fantasy Craft (ded gaem) would actually do this much more solidly if you must stick with d20 absolutely.

>>53512161
Uh

No

Noble savage is a trope that is the idealization of natives as so proud and virtuous. What YOU call noble savages is just the natural result of forcing people to live in the badlands. Yeah they're gonna get tough to survive. Like Russians, Nordics, etc. Then you RP them how you want. What's their style? Honourable? Super dickish? Opportunistic? Try and see beyond the trope.

>>53512277
Very often low magic is very specifically player-only.

It's usually around one adventure in that the GM throws "the big twist" and suddenly you're facing a dragon or a sorcerer with basically no way out.

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>>53512305
>See them more as a tough race from tough lands, surviving how they know to, basically Warcraft orcs.
>basically Warcraft orcs.
>Warcraft Orcs

WARCRAFT ORCS AFTER WARCRAFT 3 ARE NOBLE SAVAGES, HOLY SHIT THAT WAS PART OF WHAT PEOPLE HATED ABOUT THRALL.

>>53512252
>>Meanwhile you can go 100% no-magic in GURPS and never even fucking notice it.
You can do almost anything in GURPS because that's what the system is designed for, flexibility without a necessarily consistent overall tone, theme, or powerlevel. It's in the name, -Generic- -Universal- RP System.

>>53512277
>low magic is not necessarily low fantasy
Kind of is, at best you have (Ex.) instead of (Su.), which isn't any less magical, it's just fluffed different.

>>53512161
The Noble Savage is the idea that a man who lives in a hut and worships a carved wooden totem is less of a prick than a so-called civilized man living in a Mage's Magnificent Mansion because he hasn't developed the capacity for intrigue, overthinking shit, and generally looking for profit whereever he can.

>>53512323
And that's terrible, but doesn't really have to do with low magic.

Who should make the cut for Ensoulment, cast your vote now!

www.strawpoll.me/13073567/

>>53512335
You can have a high flying wuxia Gabe be "low magic", and that wouldn't be low fantasy.

>>53512369
"Low Magic"
See what I said about (Ex.), just because you give your monks Dimension Door and Fly under an (Ex.) ability doesn't suddenly mean it isn't magic.

>>53512335
Except EX abilities literally are not magic by definition.

>>53512331
Hey dude, like hear me out. Just cause you put some actual native culture in them, doesn't mean you can't STILL make them assholes. In fact that's how I prefer them. They still love to fuck shit up in my canon.

>>53512381
They're the same fucking shit. They're fluffed to be not magic but walking on fucking air is magic no matter how you spin it. (Su.) abilities are explicitly magic, (Ex.) abilities are 'totally not magic m8 ur just dat gud' but the actual shit you pull is obviously magical.

>>53512380
But it does. At least within n the context of the game world.

>>53512407
Sure but then what's stopping me from refluffing Wizards as (Ex.)?

>>53512298

Because people only want to play PF. I have never even heard of Pendragon, Iron Heroes or Fantasy Craft and I have been specifically looking for low magic/fantasy games to play or run for others.

>>53512398
Not's not, are you daft?

>>53512422
No shit, you're in the pathfinder general. Have you considered lurking other threads? I've heard all three in random /tg/ threads regularly.

>>53512422
>people only want to play PF

Have you ever like

Offered to teach them another system

>>53512431
*refluffs Wish to not be magic*
*refluffs Simulcrum to not be magic*
*refluffs Black Tentacles to not be magic*

>>53512440
YOU CAN GIVE ME YOUR BLACK TENTACLES

>>53512440
Reminder that Evard was a buttboy

>>53512414
Because making something's Ex isn't just a fluff change but a mechanical one as well.

>>53512434
>>53512439

>these replies

This is why no one likes /pfg/

>>53512449
Yeah and it's a straight buff to Wizards since they're now also immune to Mage's Disjunction, Rods of Cancellation, and Antimagic Field, meanwhile the Fighter eats shit without Magic Weapons and Wondrous Items

>>53512440
You're either stupid or being facestious.

>>53512447
What spells did Evard invent, anyways?

>>53512462
You may want to spellcheck but no, I'm not. Low Magic means low magic, you don't get to refluff spells and abilities as (Ex.) in order to make it low magic high fantasy.

>>53512457
I don't see what your point is.

>>53509163
>Its my 1st time ever DMing and i never played any D20 prior to this, it was his idea
Everything bad that happens in the game is your fault.

>>53512479
Evard's Black Tentacles, and that's it I think.

>>53512492
My point is that under your logic, these Wizards are still "low magic".

>>53512479
Black Tentacles and Greater Black Tentacles.

>>53512480
It depends on the ability. I'll accept a dragon's firrbreath being Ex or a +1 sword just being a damn good mundane weapon before saying a wizard isn't magic. It's not black and white.

>>53512331

I thought that was only as long as Thrall was in charge. The moment Garrosh was made warchief, they turned into the most entitled cockholes to ever heft an axe.

>>53512367
>all these people voting for Ryoko
I don't get it but okay
>fewer people voting for Jericho than for fucking Niccolo
HAHAHAHAHA HOLY SHIT

>>53511699
>If I wanted to run a thieves guild type campaign, but not with all the magic chicanery that happens in golarion, I could do that right?
You could. You could also use Pathfinder to run modern horror. Both would be terrible ideas, though.

>>53512503
See
>>53512523
It's a matter of degrees. Wizard is an intentionally bad example. Alchemist would be a better example.

Is Slayer good for going one handed? If not, what would be a better 1PP class for that?

>>53512526
Garrosh did nothing wrong!

>>53512568
Magus

>>53511699
Look into Blades in the Dark, anon. Pathfinder's not built for that kind of game and even though you can kludge together a solution that half works, it's less of a waste of your time to jump over to something that fully works out of the box.

>>53512546
>as many people voted for Roderick as CCC, Alex, and Kino
>implying
It's dumb to put too much stock in this stuff

>>53512422
>Because people only want to play PF
Protip: People who only want to play PF are terrible players and you should have as little as possible to do with them, whether you're running Pathfinder or some other system.

>>53512568
swashbuckler, or the paladin and cav archetypes for it

>>53512526
You say that like the Warsong weren't foaming from the mouth even during Thrall's reign or that the Frostwolves didn't just want to sit on their asses, hunting the yeti in the land Horde players till refuse to admit that it belonged to humans before the orcs came and that it's not actually the ancestral lands of the Frostwolf clan.

>>53512367
Top tier is about what I expected, except for Ryoko being that high.

>>53512422
There are so many better systems... I was sure most of us were here because we're stuck with groups that do this to us.

Pendragon is arthurian legend stuff. Magic is basically limited to "there's this soothsayer named merlin who could, like, make horses go faster and maybe change someone's face. Fucking godlike, man, but he's probably just a legend", and occasionally the ultra rare blessing by a fey or religious relic you may be lucky enough to carry (it gives you a +1 to parry! FUCK YES). It's heavily focused on stuff like territory and dynasty management; you'll get married and keep track of your kids and family (do make some eh) arrange marriages (this gets fucking scary once the players really get into it and start planning whose kids go to whose kids while sabotaging eachother's chances with the duke's daughter or something) and the like in the fall and winter, and going to war for their lord in the spring/summer and possibly getting killed (how old did you say your eldest son was? Okay well maybe your younger brother's around? no wait he died of plague last year we rolled. You do have three uncles left to play as regents though).

Actually shit went Maury more than once at our table.

>No, Eric, the Stalwart of Lohengrin! You ARE NOT the father!
>YES! YES! IN YOUR FACE ASSHOLE! YOUR WIFE, MY GINGER BALLS, *MY* ILLEGITIMATE ALL ON YOUR TAB! AWWWW YEAH!


Unchained Heroes isn't low magic but it's awesome. Check out Iron Heroes and Fantasy Craft too, though they're like, for 3.5 and ded-game respectively

>>53512606
Seriously, if you can't be bothered to learn a rules light-ish system like Symbaroum that does low magic so much better than Pathfinder ever will then you don't deserve a good low magic game.

>>53512546
Niccolo is a generic piece of shit, but he's got charm as an Italian inventor.

hey how do you make automatic bonus progression work better? I was going to use it in a upcoming game

>>53512632
Broodie has a lot of fangirls who think spamming a strawpoll will make some kind of difference.

>>53512668
Godblessem.

>>53512633
That sounds boring.

>>53512633
>this gets fucking scary once the players really get into it and start planning whose kids go to whose kids while sabotaging eachother's chances with the duke's daughter or something

Just like real feudalism, eh?

>>53512666
Well, Satan, I thought you'd know the answer to this on account of being an antediluvian trickster and all, but the easiest way to fix Automatic Bonus Progression is thus,
>Allow the players to decide if they get their Mental boost first, or Physical boost first
>Weapon Attunement points are now a "pool" of points that can be used to give a weapon special enchantments. Example being a +2 Weapon attunement can mean either a +2 Longsword or +1 Flaming Longsword
>Optional: Character ABP is level+2, so a level 8 character is treated as level 10 on the chart

>>53512583
>>53512614
I'm leaning towards Magus, but Swashbuckler seems like it'd work too. Should I go for Cha over Int?

>>53512367
I'm surprised Itsuko made it that high.

>>53512707
I'm not, everyone with more than 3 votes were pretty much the best apps so far.

>>53512707
Finding out the pilot was female probably helped. We are a bunch of thirsty ass nerds.

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>>53512688
>He doesn't like old-school adventure and an emphasis on popping out kids for your lineage

>>53512727
>Rodrick
Come on m8
And I personally liked Itsuko, I just saw a lot of people shitting on her for being Kino Nye the Science Guy

>>53512749
Ok, I agree, everyone except for Rodrick.

>>53512688
Plebian detected

>>53512749
>I just saw a lot of people shitting on her for being Kino Nye the Science Guy

So she's the star of a shitty Netflix show dedicated to spreading a liberal agenda?

>>53512763
BUT MY SEX JUNK

OHOHOHOHO

>>53512763
*pointedly ignores /pol/ trying to bring random shit in*

>TFW you realize that Disk is writing a historical epic for Derrin's backstory so that Protag can get into the head of the character to use as an NPC

>>53512763
>liberal agenda
>has a gun
>weeb

Nah.

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>>53512779
>Has a gun

>>53512699
ok, not to big of a deal if i leave it as is then, i'm already letting them play crazy shit so it all works out.

>>53512777
Honestly I'm just done with long backstories, I don't care how good it is, I'm not reading that shit.

>>53512688
Trick is you mustn't get TOO attached to, say, your starting character.

In fact you really shouldn't. If you do things right and get lucky with not-dying-too-fast every generation will be stronger than the last. This fits the setting too as traditional campaign knights are just starting to be a thing barely at the beginning, whereas 2-3 generations down the line there's actually full plate and all the good stuff that exists. Your kids inherit a small part of your honor (stat-purchase XP) and whatnot, so what you get attached to is your family more than an individual you rolled up first.

Much of the stuff is nominally covered by simple rolls in the winter, but that precludes player intervention, which is where you could really end up in the thick of it. A wife provides critical rolls and skills to a household, and marriage carries dowries, glory (especially if she's of good breeding) and all sorts of advantages - plus if she's good and healthy you'll have more and better kids. So the good ones are REALLY advantageous.

It all gets pretty fucking intense if you let yourself get into it. Just don't think "I play Grognar, son of Grognard and Grognone", think "I play the Grog clan of Candy Mountain, Derpshire".

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So with the new Avowed update I am digging the disease change on the Otyugh Pact how do the damage numbers stack up now? It looks to me like they removed a few of the more exploitable options, but buffed damage kinda across the board to level it out a bit more.
Still reading through, but overall I'm happy with it, and it'll take minimal retraining/effect on the game I've got one in. Thoughts?

>>53512777

>Derrin

Wasn't that the character Disk applied to Wrath of the Raunchy with?

>>53512812
Can you play a woman?

>>53512812
>The Archduke's eldest daughter is absolutely glorious and comes with big tracts of land in every sense of the term, but is a frigid puritan

>The Viscount's third daughter has breeding hips, will have strong love for husband and family, and is a mathematical and athletic genius, but she's worthless to your honor score and won't so much as bring a single chicken with her to your lands.

>Decisions, Go

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>>53512872
>Implying this is even a problem

Viscount's daughter to breed and raise some high-quality honor-makers.

>>53512440
>Hurr Durr Imma equate refluffed Monk to be "not magic" is the same as magic the wizard an Ex class

You couldn't reach harder even with a longarm spell

>>53512872

I'll take the archduke's daughter and win her over time.

And then I'll arrange for my most loyal and accomplished servant to marry the Viscount's daughter.

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>>53512872
Take the Archduke's daughter.
Women can't beat the cock. After the second night she'll be begging for it.

>>53512934
>>53512922
based

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>>53512872
Marry the Archduke's daughter and marry the Viscount's daughter the nordic way.

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>>53512872
>>53512922
>>53512934
>Implying frigid puritan is a problem

She knows her duty, and that entails strong sons and lovely daughters. Even a puritan would recognize that.

>>53512840
You *can* but they do have a handful of limitations. A lady knight is possible, but Inheritence is an issue (you'll want a strong husband with ultra-high love so he'll do everything you say) and pregnancy complications could fuck you up (you could literally just die in childbirth off bad rolls) or keep you from joining a particular battle. You're generally assumed to either be not yet married OR possibly a widow; see if you can survive another eight years of warfare and tourneys while your firstborn son gets old enough to finally be knighted.

But you're easily considered honorable and virtuous enough that you don't need to worry about people claiming you're fucking your squire or anything, and ain't nobody gonna give you shit if you're proving yourself in hopes of getting your young unmarried lord after he took over for his father. That'll get you mad glory and guarantee some serious upbringing boosts for your own kids.

Again, it does hold to the traditional idea that lineage is passed down to sons. That was how things worked. You may be regent for your eldest boy should your husband die, and nothing's stopping you from being an awesome queen, but you'll be expected to pass things to your boys, or a close male relative or even an adopted son, not a daughter. There are rules and sections on playing a woman, there's even some relics and effects for women only.

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>>53512812
>>53512872
Why do I have an urge to see a multi-generational campaign in Pathfinder, now.

>>53512934
>>53512973
Actually in this context it's frigid even by medieval duty standards. As in, she despises the act, will only put out strictly as required of her for procreation, and so has lower odds of childbirth and higher chances of difficulties.

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>>53512984
>But you're easily considered honorable and virtuous enough that you don't need to worry about people claiming you're fucking your squire or anything
So I can get away with it? Now this is Super Interesting.

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>>53512984
>and ain't nobody gonna give you shit if you're proving yourself in hopes of getting your young unmarried lord after he took over for his father. That'll get you mad glory and guarantee some serious upbringing boosts for your own kids.

Let's consider the meta here.

Are you suggesting it's ideal to play a tough, lovely young lady-knight from the start to secure a good young unmarried lord?

>>53512991

Because most of pfg is into breeding fetishes but unfortunately, it's all "ruined legacy" type defilement.

The second generation would all be wild manticores, half-orcs, demons, worms, and A FUCKING LITTER OF PUPPIES WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU GLORIANA

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>>53512991
Because it can lead to very amusing things and a good legacy/dynasty game.

>>53513013
>it's all "ruined legacy" type defilement.

Not at all! Most of us here want a strong husband or wife to secure our legacy, the only time you'd see someone clamoring for a half-orc rape baby in an honest multi-generation campaign is if it's their honest-to-goodness fetish, which won't be as common as the vanilla.

>>53512838
https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/4699158/

Same first name, but certainly not a copypasta job.

>>53513013
>It's all "ruined legacy" type defilement
>Not fucking a dragonlady and an angellady, then having each side get as much dragon and celestial blood gathered as possible to merge back together some generations down the line as the ultimate draconic celestial

>>53513012
ideal?
it's one hell of an uphill battle.

for one thing, you're already in the guy's service. without some significant lineage of your own, you're up against far, uh, 'softer' girls, who AREN'T spending half the year going to war and are instead with him the entire time "getting to know each-other", and chances are if you're the current top of your household that means there's basically nobody to negotiate your marriage to the guy.

meanwhile people are trying to set you up to someone else.

You've got some serious opportunity-making work ahead of you.

>>53513065

Rath Khulainn: Origins

>>53513065
Dragonblood seems like it would be a little overpowered, don't you think? That should be some end-game stuff, not "just another modifier."

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>>53513077
Okay, so you seem to really know your stuff about Pendragon (a system I've been interested in learning more about anyway, and this is definitely eye-opening) so I do need to ask your expert opinion on how you could see a campaign focusing on the familial/lineage aspects of Pendragon being put into a Pathfinder campaign. I'm asking for something as simple as "where would you set it" to something as complex as "how would you stat things."

>>53513051
>TFW Valeriya and Casimir only ever engage in pure, vanilla, missionary position intercourse
>TFW it's still cute and loving

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>>53513137
>Married couple
>Only missionary

>>53513118
>put x into pathfinder!
No.

Newbie here. Anyone car to explain the appeal of wizards to me? Cause I keep hearing shit about how they're this amazing unstoppable force of bullshit that gets to do whatever it wants, but after going through the stuff on roll20 it just seems like they're next to useless 99% of the time and stupidly broken in the other 1% if they got lucky and prepared the exact spell needed for this situation.

What am I missing here?

>>53513171
Gitting gud.

>>53513171
i find wizard completely unappealing but the problem is the really good wizards are always in that 1% category of monstrous gamebreaking

>>53513171
>What am I missing here?

Nothing, you just realize the mystique of the almighty wizard is boring.

>>53513171
Getting at a high enough level where they're able to strut their stuff consistently. Also, you're pigeonholded into a god-like role even though that's totally nonsensical for most wizards in fantasy. Want to be a blaster? Tough luck.

>>53513171
When you get good at preparing the spells you need.
Also
1. obviously it assumes the Wizard actually has access to spells to copy.
2. the Wizard is good in and out of combat
3. the Wizard makes or breaks combat most of the time due to his crowd control capabilities - not his blasting ones.
4. the Wizard's buffs and debuffs can be fucking massive. Just imagine Enlarge Person on the fighter, or Color Spray - which ends the fight early levels.

>>53513171

At low levels they're a nuclear bomb a few times a day. At higher levels they're a toolbox that can solve many problems.

Think carefully: how many encounters does a group usually face per day?

How many of those can be solved by putting the weak ones to sleep en masse or by disabling the strong one, or by supercharging your group's frontliner?

The issue is that wizards dictate the workday because they can be reasonably expected to have a kit of shit that is guaranteed to have some effect while others must roll or whiff

>>53513171
Because the Wizard is God. The Fighter and Barbarian might be doing the "real" work but when the Wizard uses Sleep, Color Spray, or Glitterdust that's that, and that's at low levels. At high levels even without doing horseshit like Planar Binding, you can Polymorph Any Object the Fighter into a Solar.

>>53513216
You CAN be a blaster, you just degrade yourself into doing what a fighter is supposed to be doing.

>>53513222
>how many encounters does a group usually face per day?
More than you'd think. The one time I got to play a wizard, I blew through my spells and the GM had me endure a slugging match.

White-room Wizards are the worst.

>>53513257
Exactly my point. I want the archetypical fantasy setup that PF is SUPPOSED to provide but fails to. You know what I'm talking about.

Fighty Fighter.
Sneaky Rogue.
Blaster Wizard.
Healing Cleric.

It just works.

>>53512749
I need a basic gestalt on Rodrick stat

>>53513299
Basic gestalt? What?

>>53513171
>if they got lucky
It's less about being lucky and more about not being a shitter.
Even at low levels they have Sleep and Color Spray. Grease and Enlarge Person remain useful forever. They also have Magic Missile (the ONLY way you're dealing with incorps if you're unlucky enough to encounter one that low) and Scorching Ray / Aggressive Thundercloud which does decent damage for a level 3 character. Silent / Minor Image covers many, MANY utility needs and Light obseletes torches.

>>53513270
If you're level 7 or below you will be running out of spells sometimes, more at lower levels. Above that, you generally won't be because the rest of the group will run out of resources before you do.

Is anyone else having major Deja vu with this thread? I swear we did the same thing like three weeks ago. The exact same pictures.

>>53513216
>>53513221
>>53513222
>>53513244
Sooooooooo, basically, you're a glorified toolbox. Guess at least now I know what the support class is in Pathfinder.

>>53513293
>Blaster Wizard
Is not archetypical fantasy, that's the JRPG line. Archetypical fantasy has Wizards who are Merlin or Odin.

>>53513322
DEJA VU

I'VE JUST BEEN IN THIS PLACE BEFORE

>>53513322
Shitposting. Shitposting never changes.

>>53513325
>dissing the Wizard as a toolbox
The problem is you can do everything. You aren't a toolbox you're THE toolbox, and you can often just delete encounters and wait for everyone else to mop it up. Hell if you have Summon Monster even the Fighter can sometimes be obseleted, esp. at low point buy.

>>53513313
>Above that
Here comes the white room!
Yes, at higher levels the Wizard gets really good, but before that, especially in rusty dagger shanktown? They're fucked, especially with a DM that treats them as an afterthought.

>>53513327
>Odin
>a God
That's a little removed from standard Wizard paradigms.

>>53513293
Have you considered [spoiler[2e[/spoiler]?

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>>53513137
>Pure, vanilla, missionary

Yeah, with Valeriya, the Vilderavn has other ideas.

>>53513346
>That's a little removed from standard Wizard paradigms.
No it isn't? Odin is literally the basis for Wizards as we imagine them today, even the fucking robes and pointy hat and old bearded dude with a staff comes from him. Wizards in fantasy were basically gods or something close, hell Gandalf is literally a not!angel who could solve everything by snapping his fingers if not for Saruman and the fact that he's not allowed to.

>here comes the white room
The fact of the matter is that a Wizard even below level 7 is going to be fucking shit up left and right until he runs out of spells at which point the group sets up camp as soon as possible anyway.

>>53513307
Pol memes, a basic rundown on whats hus problem

>>53513397
Yes, a lot of NON-HUMAN wizards had godlike powers. That's a key point to consider. Actual human wizards never really did that much. Again, the blaster wizard is much more iconic of the ideal wizard than your examples.

> at which point the group sets up camp as soon as possible anyway.
Again, white room assumptions. That never happened with me.

>>53513345
That just makes it sound even more boring, because it means encounters boil down to "Did I have the foresight to bring X spell that would be really useful right now?". If yes, you practically skip the encounter, which is boring. If not, you don't really have much to do, which is boring.

I really don't get how that's a plus. I haven't actually started my first campaign yet. Is combat not an interesting part of the game? Is it a chore or some shit? Cause this shit's leaving me with the impression that the wizard is a sentient "autoresolve combat" button. I can only see that as a benefit if the combat's shit.

>>53513419
He's an an-cap

>>53513346
>Here comes the white room!
>Yes, at higher levels the Wizard gets really good, but before that, especially in rusty dagger shanktown? They're fucked, especially with a DM that treats them as an afterthought.
Anon I can fuck any class I want to over if I felt like it, you're using some demented Black Room building. Wizards shut down normal encounters while they still have spells, and having more than maybe one or two encounters after he's done if he's not using like six spells an encounter (aka being stupid) is akin to exploding the Fighter's weapon and sundering the Barbarian's axe.

>>53513299
>gestalt
>Rodrick
>The guy using Nier as his art and a homebrew archetype to be more Nier
>But it's replicant
Hue

>>53513366
Surely the Vilderavn won't be too rough.

>>53513441
Then maybe it isn't for you, good job.

>foresight to bring X spell
Color Spray is useful any time before level 5, Grease is never not useful.

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>>53513299
>I need a basic gestalt on Rodrick
>Gestalt

I gotchu, senpai.

>>53513464
>>53513479
Niermind

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>>53513366
>>53513474

>>53513458
>Black Room building
I'm using the real world, with sadistic DMs who want to deep-six the wizard any chance they get, along with having godawful luck so every single color spray and grease is saved, and I go through 12 encounters in a single day while I don't get to do a damn thing while the martials hog all the glory.

>>53513433
>Actual human wizards never really did that much
Who are your actual human Wizards? I can't think of any big ones. Medea was a descendent of a Titan and therefore a Sorcerer, not a Wizard for example.

>Again, the blaster wizard is much more iconic of the ideal wizard than your examples
Personal opinions not supported by actual fantasy, you can like blasters better but they're not more archetypical in fantasy just because the Black Mage sounds more common to you.

>Again, white room assumptions
If your DM is forcing you into encounter after encounter without your class features then he's just trynig to fuck you over it's like making a Paladin fall in the middle of enemy territory.

>>53513507

Grease still has a significant effect, even on a save.

>>53513507
So you have a shit GM who's the anti-Cook, what's your point? Get a better group instead of one that kicks someone for trying to play a class that te GM doesn't like, if the Wizard isn't actively trying to fuck everyone over they're not even that bad.

>>53513476
Don't forget only preparing half of your spells so you can whip out that spell you really need.

>>53513507
>color spray is saved
DC 16 / 17 is saved against by everyone in the encounter at level 3? Doubt.

>grease
Grease is useful because like Web it doesn't matter if you save.

>>53513507
Use Burning Disarm, Grease, etc. spells that don't give a shit whether or not you save.

>>53513513
>Who are your actual human Wizards? I can't think of any big ones.
Exactly my point. Don't cite non-human wizards for what feats a human wizard should be capable of. In a gaming sense, those types of individuals should very much be considered as NPCs ONLY.

> you can like blasters better but they're not more archetypical in fantasy just because the Black Mage sounds more common to you.
It's certainly more iconic in pop culture, and I'd argue a much better fit for gaming than the alternatives.

>>53513524
I know it does, but again, that doesn't really help when it's only usable once.

>>53513541
>level 3
Haha, that's funny. Try level 1-2. I had to beg him to let me get time to recharge my spells and eventually he got so pissed off that he had rocks fall.

>>53513627
>Exactly my point
Your point is that Wizards shouldn't exist then? Or that somehow "archetypical fantasy" is not archetypical fantasy?

>It's certainly more iconic in pop culture, and I'd argue a much better fit for gaming than the alternatives.
That's your opinion and whether or not it's true it isn't archetypical fantasy.

>only useable once
Are you literally level 1? If you are you should be getting 3 level 1 spells anyway because you have 20 INT (don't you?), and Grease has DC 16 at that point. Any enemies your team can blast through "12 encounters" in a single day of shouldn't be powerful enough to save against DC 16 consistently.

>>53513696
That's impossible, DC 16 at level 1 is 70% chance to fail against people with 14 WIS or with Iron Will which is already abnormal.

>>53513723
>Your point is that Wizards shouldn't exist then?
As-is? Yes.

>That's impossible
It was a high power campaign.

>>53513755
Also, don't underestimate the power of terrible rolls by the player and good rolls by the DM.

>>53513755
>As-is? Yes.
Then ban them from your game, who cares. Combat isn't everything and Black Mage is even more useless outside of combat than a fighter, you've made them go from Tier 1 to Tier 4-5 in a heartbeat.

>it was a high power campaign
High power campaign, you start at level 1, and you don't even have something like mythic or gestalt. "High power".

AAAAAAAAAH

I want a provincial farm boy to rise up and save the kingdom aaaaaaaaaaaaa

>>53513785
Which is why I said PF fails.

>>53513791
t. alexander

Hey dudes! Asking for build help!

I haven't played Pathfinder in a few years, but I got invited to a game. I figured "why not?"

I want to make a Dragon Disciple and it's Core Only, but with an exception or two if I ask nicely. Also 15 Point buy. :(

I've read the class guide from osterisk, but I can't decide: Should I go for Melee focus or Magic Focus?

I was thinking about asking to use the ranger that gets permanent natural claws so I can focus on that for my melee option and 3 levels of sorcerer.

Also, Half Elf or Human?

>>53513838
Be a bloodrager instead.

>>53513804
>hurr my DM is retarded
>therefore the system is shit
>hurr I can't throw Quickened Twinned Maximized Silent Still Enlarged Fireball!!!!!!
Then why are you here, just play 2e or something or have the DM rule certain metamagic as free or something who cares

>>53513791
What kingdom?

>>53513474
What do we even know about the Vilderavn?

>>53513838
>15 PB
be a cleric
No but seriously >>53513854

>>53513791
CHOSEN ONE OF ERASTIL GO GO GO

>>53513858
>Then why are you here,
To tell you to abandon your ways. PF sucks.

>>53513838
>Dragon Disciple
>15 PB

Your answer is "just play straight sorcerer", because holy fuck that fucks any chance to actually do a proper DD hard. You could attempt to play a Bloodrager into DD, but you're still fucked by shitty PB.

>>53513887
Fuck off back to your nigger cuck posting general
>>>/5eg/

>>53513817
More like Alexander of Flaccidon, am I right ladies?

>>53513900
>couldn't even refute my point without bursting into memes
My point stands.

>>53513887
WE

>>53513907
Oooooooh, snap! Alexander's mighty trout is more like a minnow!

>>53513838
>Dragon Disciple
bloodrager is better for this
go 1 full bab 4 sorc and the rest DD
low cha high str focus on melee
use mage armor

>>53513916
There's nothing to refute because you ignore any point I have and simply claim your opinions to be fact, using anecdotal evidence that's obviously more indicative of the quality of your group than anything else.

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I've been waiting for this!
And still am.

>>53512367
>>53512367
>>53512367
>>53512367

>>53513858
Any kingdom aaaaaaaaa provincial farm boys are cute

>>53513885
Aaaaaaaaa erastil the daddy God aaaaaaaaaaaaa

>>53513935
Tomorrow or thursday

>>53513928
You're no better on that front, you speak from a lofty white room ideal group, and then start spamming memes when you're backed into a corner. So I'd say I won this round.

>>53513885

I played one of those, once. It was awfully fun.

>>53513943
Wist are you drunk?

Rolled 7, 5 = 12 (2d10)

>>53513923
Let's not be savages here, we have rules for this sort of thing. ROLLING FOR ALEXANDER!

>>53513928
>>53513953
>ignore the opposition's points instead of refuting them
>"won this round"

no, you're both retarded and neither of you won, now fuck

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>>53513920

>>53513976
BIG

FEET

>>53513838
2 levels of Paladin
wear fullplate and use still spell also an option

>>53513976
Does he really only have 10 con

>>53513989
>>53514000

wait we don't have his sheet

since he's a frontliner wouldn't he have a CON mod of like 14 at least

shit son

>>53513953
Except ALL fucking ttrpg hinges on the idea that you have a good group already. You can ruin literally any fucking class via DM fiat. Hell it doesn't even matter what system you use because Rule 0 always exists, the DM is God and if God wants to fuck you over then by His name you will be fucked no matter your precautions.
The fact of the matter is that
1. Blaster Wizards aka Black Mages are not archetypical in fantasy - conjurers, transmuters, and diviners are
2. Your balance concerns barely make sense as they're not based on numbers but on the DM raping your ass on purpose
3. You actually don't know what you're talking about because you think a Wizard only gets 1 level 1 spell at first level
4. Your group is shit therefore there's no class you can possibly play and be safe unless it tickles the DM's dick

Rolled 4, 2 = 6 (2d4)

>>53513989
That's just because of the shitty tiefling meme, if you ignore that he's probably something like

>>53512367
Cornelia is for TENDER LOVING SEX IN THE MISSIONARY POSITION FOR THE PURPOSES OF CREATING A NEW UBERMENSCH SOCIETY

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>>53514044

>>53514018
As said, you already disqualified yourself by bursting into memes, and you haven't really made any new point that I haven't already refuted effortlessly. Later sweetie.

>>53513953
There's no such thing as a good class when a DM starts cheating against you. Well, except for Wizards, since they can actually abuse no-save effects once they're out of rusty dagger shanktown.

>>53514075
>already refuted effortlessly
If your opinion counts as a refutation then why did you even begin discussing at all?

>>53514018
Don't bother trying to use reason, anon. He's just going to put his fingers in his ears and shout MUH ANECDOTES! WHITE ROOM WHITE ROOM!

When a retard wants to proclaim he won an argument, you don't correct him that'll just end in you wasting more time.

>>53514010
Nah, believe it or not but a d10 doesn't need more than 12 Con, and a d12 can even make do with 10 Con.

Rolled 1, 3 + 1 = 5 (2d3 + 1)

>>53513976
Rolling for Ryoko

>>53514093
What are these rolls even for?

>>53514057
You know what would be perfect for Flower Court? A mute, busty bard.

>>53514093
W-what are the rules, anon?

Vote for Kino
I want to see Kino

>>53514027
Still respectable.

>>53514044
Cornelia is for Ryoko's blade and nothing more.

>>53514044
I want Cornelia to step on me

>>53514125
ELEVEN HP
THIRTEEN AC

>>53514106
For men, the number that comes out is dick size in inches. For women, you divide the number in half and that corresponds to cup size (1=A, 2=B, etc.)

>>53514115
Tiefling are 2d10, Aasimar are 2d6, Mwangi are 2d5, Chelaxian/Taldan/Ustalav are 2d4. All rolls are +CON.

>>53514115
They're rolling boob size.

>>53514154
Roll for Kino and Cornelia, I don't really know how this works

>>53514154
Tian are 2d3

STOP THIS MADNESS
STOP

TELL ME ABOUT THE ECONOMY OF ANDORAN.

>>53511434
DnD 4e