Order of the Stick #1074: Turning Back

Also I like both the girls better now for some reason.

>>53495810

Why won't bandana just tell her crew about the gates thing? Not being dead is a pretty good motivator.

>>53496030
They knew, they just didn't care.

>>53496100
How could they not? It's kind of a big deal.

>>53495810
Does anyone even care anymore? I think the last time I gave a shit was when they were fighting the orc in the arena.

>>53496308

Bitchy man bitch too much

>>53496308
This is more of a transitory period, like the camel ride to the Empire of Blood: random encounters, minor conflicts and clashes, nothing serious or exciting.

I'm sure there'll be good stuff coming soon, but then again, unlike you, I managed to care of the comic a few times even after the arena bit.

I think he was working on a kickstarter story until recently; that's a reason at least.

Of course that still doesn't explain why he's focusing on these pointless side characters when the story has already been going for 15 years and is almost over. Seriously who gives a shit about Bandana and Andi and all these other twits? This frost giant ambush has been going on for like 20+ strips and it STILL isn't over ffs. Just fucking go get Durkon and kill him already (and the vampire Durkon stuff probably could have been cut too to be honest)

>>53496308

Yeah, I'm pretty sick of that story too. Let Xykon win already.

>>53496471
No no, let those three devils win.

>>53496559

No no, let Daimyo Kubota get resurrected and do another 200 page trial sequence

>>53496581
That bit depressed me a little desu: like Rich briefly showing us that he's aware of all this time-wasting bullshit, yet here we go wasting time all over again anyway.

>>53496637
that was eight and a half years ago, feel old yet?

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>>53496957
...Yes.

>>53496245
I think the idea is that this kind of stuff is above their paygrade and they're pretty sure someone else will take care of it. People can be amazingly resistant to the idea that bad things are coming and immediate action is needed to stop them.

>>53496245
They thought someone else would deal with it, not realizing someone else was aboard their ship.

>>53495810

>mfw I started reading this strip over a decade ago
>mfw I have no face

>>53497060
>>53497076
Well, I hope this turned some heads.

>>53495810
>fork hands
that always looks so stupid. I know it's stick figures but still

>>53499351
It's more jarring with the art update since now they're actually colored and outlined instead of just being three little lines.

Combined with the general progression of Rich''s art improving over the past decade, the hands are one of the things that stand out most as a vestige of it being actual stick figures

>>53499351

Look at Elan who's mending in the background. as well as the priate in the back of the first panel holding a sword. You can clearly tell that the former is pointing his finger and the latter is holding the rail on top, despite both being placed on quite a dark background and being far from the foreground.

Adding dimension to the hands means these scenes still read clearly despite his newer style adding a lot more visual background noise than he used to feel comfortable adding.

I'm not a fan during closeups, but far away it makes things like this scene look a lot less dopey.

>>53496401
Yeah the O-Chul comic. It was good.

That being said boy the main comic has been in a lull since the Durkon escape.

>>53495810

1 - Why is she talking like a stereotypical nigger?
2 - Oh look, the "cis white male" is wrong again.
3 - WHO FUCKING CARES ABOUT THIS BULLSHIT, THESE ARE LITERAL WHO NPCS, GET ON WITH THE MAIN STORY ALREADY

>>53501079
Paladins getting to wand watching Xykon and friends was pretty neat, but I agree that this mutiny has been obvious for a while and hasn't been too interesting yet.

>>53501120
Right, that part was all right, but all this airship stuff, I can't bring myself to really care about

>>53500735
Yeah I think that's what does it.

>>53501050
Look at the last frame. She looks like a robot with those hands.

>>53501118
1. I think she's supposed to talk like a cowboy or something
2. That's not a white male, the mechanic is a chick. that said it sucks that Rich has started to let his SJW views leak into the comic, he used to be pretty good about keeping things apolitical.
3. FUCKING THIS

>>53501118
>Oh look, the "cis white male" is wrong again.
you mean the female engineer who may or may not have been bandana's lesbian lover?

>>53502013

Okay, so the engineer dude who looks like a dude turned out to be a chick. Whatever. The "white person" turned out to be wrong.

>>53496559
I really want the Three Devils to show up being smug, only to meet Redcloak who has his own plan.
Only to meet Xykon, who knew about all of them all the time, but let them delude themselves into thinking they had one over on him
After all, not knowing isn't the same as not caring.

Never read this. Is it good enough that I should set aside a day to read the entire archive?

I read a lot of webfics so quite enjoy binges, but always check beforehand after Girl Genius got shite towards the very end of my catch-up.

>>53502419
That's probably what'll happen, they'll try and destroy the last gate only to get crushed by Xykon

I am cool with that

>>53502586
A fairly large chunk of OotS's complaints stem from the slow updating pace combined with a lot of updates where nothing happens, so I'd imagine it might actually work a lot better if read from the start in a binge. Plus it's got its share in cool stuff as well.

I say give it a go. Just don't be discouraged by the rather ugly early strips.

>>53502586

the good-
it's funny, there's a lot of puns but there are some really clever jokes as well. good satire of D&D.

the main characters are all likeable and their arcs are very well written for a webcomic

the villains are also likeable, the main villain is hilarious and his sidekick is probably the best character in the entire comic (though you may need to read the prequel book to fully appreciate him)

interesting plot

doesn't take itself too seriously, there is some good drama but it never becomes pretentious or whiny

the bad:
it starts to drag after around strip 500, some pointless characters and subplots are introduced, and certain arcs go on for too long

the author feels committed to putting a joke in almost every strip, which can lead to a lot of corny filler that disrupts the flow of the comic

this isn't much of a problem in the earlier strips but the author in a SJW and for the last 150 strips or so his political views are starting to color his writing. minor characters are gay for no reason, etc

there's a bit too much fourth wall breaking humor at times

all in all Order of the Stick is my favorite webcomic and the only one that still holds my interest after Erfworld went to shit. It's at least worth checking out

>>53502832
Oh, and also

good: art style starts out pretty bad but the author improves it over time

bad: too much fucking dialogue, Burlew has a tendency to tell rather than show

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>>53495810
>>53500735
>>53502620

A D&D stick figure webcomic has no business being this well-written.

But on the other hand, webcomic with stick figures has no excuse for taking so long to fucking update. It's been on a schedule of "whenever I feel like it" for a while.

If anyone cared enough to study it, I'm positive that webcomics never fully recover after kickstarters get funded.

>>53502935
>>53502887
>>53502832
>>53502620

Thanks lads, pencilled it in. I recommend nine planets without intelligent life if you've never read it.

>>53495810
>Elan spends multiple strips trying to climb the ropes so he can get close enough to mend the balloon
>now he just snipes it with mending from the deck
I'm out

>>53503174
The boulder wasn't there before so he couldn't reach it without climbing.

>>53503174
I assumed he climbed the rope so he could cast without getting butt fucked by giants. Now there's just a single giant trading tickles with Roy, so it's safe for him to do it from the ground so he doesn't have to make concentration checks.

>>53502586
Binge reading this comic is the best way to read it. I lost interest for several years, then binge read from the start and really enjoyed it. If you binge read it the filler strips and NPC sidequest arcs aren't as annoying since they only take up a couple of strips that you get through quickly (even though those strips were released over a few months).

>>53499351
Goddammit. Every time someone mentions it it's weeks before I can unsee it.

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How many years will it be before we see best boy again?

>>53502935
This is gonna sound dumb, but what comic is this panel from? Really want to know the context for that...everything. T-rex smoking a cigarette all blase for whatever reason.

>>53497076
Probably think that someone else (other than the OorS) will. This is D&D world, there are world-ending threats every-other week yet the world is still turning. History suggests it is inevitable these things will resolve themselves without these particular characters getting involved.

They pretty much said exactly this at some point.

>>53502935
Schlock Mercenary has done multiple kickstarters, still updates 7 days a week.

>>53504801
The next time we see him will probably be the last time.

>>53505285
Google Image Search, you retarded faggot.

>>53502298
You're so easily triggered, man. It must be hard to live with a skin as thick as toilet paper.

>>53495810

What is going to be her punishment? Normally I would say hanging, but I am not sure Rich will make the good lesbian captain lay down the law that hard. The fact they are a chaotic neutral crew might factor in.

>>53502935
>I'm positive that webcomics never fully recover after kickstarters get funded.
Nah, his schedule was like this before the kickstarter too. He just works slow some times, probably due to his (theorized) Crohn's Disease. I'd honestly say he's one of the few people who have actually carried through on his kickstarter promises and didn't just take the money and run like that fuck who set fire to his backers' books. Burlew did just release O-Chul's pdf story, and that clocked in at 95 pages

>>53507542
But knowing him, he will go down awesomely.

>>53502832
>his political views are starting to color his writing. minor characters are gay for no reason, etc
Because every gay should have a good reason to be gay, right?

The only time it really unneccesarily shoehorned SJW politics was the time when Bandana and Haley spent an entire comic discussing how bad it was that they at one point said the word "bitch" and showed an exposed midriff.

>>53503174
Roy actually told him in the previous comic to "keep his feet on the deck" this time. Probably Elan just thought it was dramatically appropriate for Mending to have shorter range than it actually does.

>>53509444
Well, there was also the internet troll Ettin from the O-Chul story, but that only went on for 4 pages out of the 90 or so.

>>53509470
Is that really political, though? Does anybody like smarmy internet wiseguys?

I'd dump the O-Chul story if I weren't paranoid about it being secretly watermarked or something. It's really good.

>>53509489
>Is that really political, though?
Pretty sure it was a direct reference to GamerGate. You know, some of them being internet trolls and the rest trying to distance themselves from them.

Or maybe I'm reading too much into it.

>>53509505
Huh, maybe. I thought it was just poking fun at pseudo-intellectuals who act like an ass but don't want to own up to it, but maybe. Either way, I wouldn't say that's really shoehorned politics. At least since he didn't say "actually it's about ethics in random encounters" or some shit.

>>53509489
Well, it was political insomuch as there's really only been one side pulling the "*I* didn't say it, it's not me, how dare you say I'm involved" schtick as of late.

I'd wait until he puts it up for sale. He did ask nicely not to share it, and the product was good enough I feel like it should be respected.

>>53509505
Nah, that's what it was. It was laid on a little thick, but it didn't cloud the whole work so I let it pass.

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>>53509551
>as of late
I was gonna comment on this but considering how long he's been working on that comic, it's entirely possible that GamerGate was still relevant at the time he wrote that ettin encounter.

>>53509565
Honestly, it wasn't even that bad considering how short the encounter was. One half of an ettin trying to pretend that it had nothing to do with the other half's anger is a funny enough joke on its own.

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>>53502935
Tell me about it.

>>53499351
Okay, so I'm not the only one to have my autism triggered, thank god.

>>53509551
>>53509489
Do you think it'll be available in soft cover? I'm collecting all the books and I would really like to read it but not as a PDF

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>>53509444

>Because every gay should have a good reason to be gay, right?

Bandana is a prop designed to get the order from one place to another. It's far too late in the narrative to start introducing minor characters and expecting us to care about them. I say she was gay for no reason because there's no good in-story reason to focus on her at all. Rich just shoehorned a gay character in to get cred with the tumblr crowd.

Also, it's not the only time. See attached image, possibly the most cringeworthy strip in the entire comic

>>53510195
you autistic motherfucker

>>53510195
>Also, it's not the only time. See attached image, possibly the most cringeworthy strip in the entire comic
It's been in here since the start, Hayley's always been about the grrl power shit when she's not macking over Elan's 18 cha.

>>53511605
I don't really care about Haley's comment, but the Frost Giant's dialogue was ridiculously clunky and heavy handed, not to mention nonsensical

>>53511691
Pretty sure it was just a joke. A giant of all things having such trouble, plus Haley's reaction to it despite being rather far away at the same time, was meant to convey humor.

It wasn't that good a joke, maybe, but I still think that trying to look for any deeper meaning in it is nothing more than desperately finding excuses to be offended.

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>>53511712
>I still think that trying to look for any deeper meaning in it is nothing more than desperately finding excuses to be offended.

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>>53511986
Í'm just saying, if you're this easy to upset, there can't be too many things out there that you could actually like.

Has OotS fallen so far out of favour with /tg/ we don't even Thog anymore?

>>53511712
>>53512010
Nobody rational is upset.
It's just a bad joke wrapped up in poor dialogue.

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>>53512337
You could have done it yourself, brah.

>>53512460
I'm on it. I'm bad at it, tho(u)g(h).

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>>53512337
>>53512460
Thog no good. Thog fraud. No look at Thog!

>>53513066
>I know D&D

>>53502832
I can honestly say that the story line focusing on O-chul's imprisonment ranks among my favorite pieces of fantasy literature, not just webcomics.

>>53510195
If you think that's cringeworthy, your skin is waaaaay too fucking thin.

>>53502832
There is the reason the supplements, like Start of Darkness, is better than the main comic. It is mostly pacing.

>>53507626
Wow, you think I didn't? Just got a bunch of 4chan threads from archive. Are you the one being retarded, perhaps?

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>>53512010

Anon, you can't deny he is getting heavy-handed with his politics. Fuck, the forum thread for this comic ended up with him closing it and saying "If you don't like my lessons, stop showing up."

This is one of the reasons, among others, such as abysmal passing, the lack of a schedule, etc., that has made former fans, such as myself, give up on it.

Plus, he managed to ruin Tarkin, of all people.

>>53515225
>Plus, he managed to ruin Tarkin, of all people.

How? I thought he revealed his control freak bullshit in a reasonably slow and organic manner and his arc ended well enough.

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>>53515263

Dragged on waayy too long, man. And made someone who seemed competent and in charge suddenly be considered a joke for no specific reason

>>53515225

Pic Related

>>53515303
>>53515225
>he thinks this is an SJW freakout
>instead of a man reaching the end of his patience

You have no idea how autistic the GiTP forums are.

>>53516972
Please, Burlew, enlighten us.

>>53517211
They literally argued over whether or not Familicide was "ethical" for years. Despite being told flat-out on multiple occasions by Burlew himself that "no, it was Evil with a capital 'E'." They STILL argued about it even after it was shown that it killed thousands of completely uninvolved humans in addition to a quarter of the black dragons on the planet.

They've also been arguing back in forth whether or not Belkar is actually Chaotic Evil since before the Azure City war, and once again continued to argue about it when he said it himself. At least that one is actually changing, slowly but surely.

>>53517387
Sounds about on /tg/'s level to me.

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>>53517387
>>53517211
This is in addition to all the arguments they have over minor shit in the comic, and the standard fair of social-justice-in-DnD arguments that go on for hundreds to thousands of posts. That reaction isn't something that appeared out of thin air, that's over a decade of dealing with autists finally reaching its limit. "Girl or fella" is kinda clunky, but it's just a bump that is passed over pretty quickly considering Durkon is confirmed straight. It's not worth a huge argument like it clearly spawned.

>>53517446
/tg/ will change subjects occasionally. These motherfuckers will argue for YEARS over the exact. Same. Thing. Sometimes in the exact same hundred+ post thread.

>>53517554
*hundred+ PAGE thread, excuse me.

>>53517554
>These motherfuckers will argue for YEARS over the exact. Same. Thing.

Nah, we're still going on about alignments, moralfags, and paladins being cool with genocide. We're going through years-old arguments verbatim: I should know, I was here for the last round.

>>53517387

Yeah this is accurate, it's a rare instance where accusations of autism are literally true. They're literal minded to the point that some of them may well be incapable of subtlety or abstract thought.

Just a minor example, when V was offered the soul splice one of the demons said "Don't bother looking it up, it's a once in a century deal". Now a normal person would take this to be a message from the author that soul splices were homebrew and not in any sourcebook. A large fraction (probably the majority) of posters there took it to mean "it is a physical law of the universe that a soul splice can only be offered once every one hundred years" and proceeded to spend months arguing about it.

It's a hundred times worse than tg.

I think a major reason the comic has declined is due to Burlew's need to placate his forumgoers. So in many comics he has to include a bunch of exposition which is fairly obvious or that anyone reasonable would just assume, because otherwise his forum will go bonkers and start speculating over the most inane shit.

>>53517831
I would've given up a long time ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_nPp64OrBc

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Need a Roy edit for this.

>>53517831

Are they still arguing about Haley being half celestial because
>my mommy is in haven now

>>53515225
>>53515263

He portrayed Tarquin out to be a brilliant warrior and general, only to completely reverse this at the end of the arc. He decided that Tarquin must be the Elan/Nale of his group, a delusional idiot who only thinks he's the leader. Which is why none of his teammates but Malack respected him in the slightest.

It's probably the worst characterization choice Rich has made so far, though failing to reveal V's gender when we met his family is also up there.

>>53518551
I disagree. I think it was set up very well: he did raise Nale after all, and was shown to be a crazy control freak with a need for things to go according to the stories well in advance.

>>53518607
The control freak stuff was great, Tarquin's crew treating him like shit was not

>>53518551
It was both. Tarquin was a smarter Elan/Nale, but he was still their father. So him being as annoying as them was to be expected, and he DID conquer pretty much everything himself on top of being a deathly competent fighter in his own right.

And as >>53518607 pointed out, him getting angry when the story started to go not as planned was set up as well.

>>53518641
>Tarquin's crew treating him like shit was not
Why wouldn't they treat him like shit, the way he behaves?

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This is the best splash page we got.
Any contenders?

>>53518687

hmm... you may have a point actually. fine, forget about tarquin

>>53518641
They *were* all Evil, anon. All of them being dismissive of the guy ranting about stories when they're not directly benefiting them is appropriate; he even called them out on it. Malack listening to Tarquin as well as he did just shows how close the relationship between the two of them was.

>>53518704
Pity the ME3 edit is lost in time

>>53518729
ME3?

>>53518729
shit sorry I'm retar

>>53518738
Mass effect 3.
Someone made a great edit, but for some reason it's been completely wiped from the internet

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Best comic approaching!

>>53518885
I've always especially liked panel 4, where the two words that can be clearly made out in the mist are

>danger, Belkar.

>>53502298
> RARGH SJW BULLSHIT WHITEMALE HATE
> it's literally not though
> K BUT IS STILL SJW BULLSHIT EVEN THOUGH I'M ENTIRELY WRONG
you fuckers are what's wrong with the internet. Just have the fucking good grace to be wrong. This is clearly not based on andi's race or identity. It's based on banana being better at command than the person who's not a commander.

Christ you fucking whiny babies make me sick.

>>53502586
What's wrong with gg? I mean, aside from the forced love triangle when Gil is so obviously Best Husbando

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>>53495810
R8 my Thog

>>53519164
The story moves even slower than in OotS, and then when we thought it was ending, they suddenly threw in a new curveball just to make it continue even longer.

That was where I quit.

>>53502586
>>53502620
>>53503050
Can confirm bingeing works - I started a few days ago and just plowed through when I was bored at work.

I am now resigned to the slow pacing problem, but when you've got 1076 at your fingertips, you don't notice it.

>>53517211
Imagine a forum filled entirely with Carnac, but with each individual having a different hill to die on.
That's the GITP forums.

We had one of them migrate here, once. He was utterly incapable of admitting that Belkar was feeling empathy, despite the fact that multiple strips were dedicated to exactly that. Even when faced with them, he outright refused to accept reality.
I used to laugh at them before I met that guy, but now I feel pity for the few non autistic people there, and for Rich having to deal with them.

>>53519184
0 out of 400.

>>53519444
You do of course realise that while a 1 out of 400 is WAY less than a 1 out of 10, a 0 out of 400 is the same as a 0 out of 10, right?

Miyo Death Knight when?

Wrong-Eye victory when?

Devil trio secret plan victory when?

>>53518379
I refuse to believe this is true.

>>53519713
They did. For *years*. All the way until Haley's mother's death was shown "on screen", and even then they still kept at it.

>>53519098
I read through early OotS strips like 6 times and the whole thing 3 times, and I still miss some stuff like that. Burlew's attention to detail is legendary sometimes.

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>>53518885
>>53519098
>comic comes out
>put on the Pirates of the Caribbean theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27mB8verLK8
>mfw

That whole miniarc was when Belkar became my favorite character out of the whole strip.

>>53519713
>>53519394
>>53517831
>>53517387
>>53516972
>>53517554

Holy shit. I mean I've heard of Rich's outbursts (which proved to be 9/10 times completely vindicated), and I've spent a bit of time on the forums as well, but I never knew they were this fucking crazy. I thought /tg/ got bad sometimes but this is a whole other can of worms.

>>53519864
Not any of them, but I also remember a like 50+ page thread debating whether or not getting "Vitamin O" would really help Miko unwind. Because Roy mentioned it as a snarky comment to a bitch he once had the hots for.

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>>53519945
I forgot about that one. I want to buy Burlew a beer now.

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>>53519945
Ok, that's a new one.
What the fuck.

>>53519864
>>53517831

I didn't give a full explanation of the soul splice controversy, actually. I'll do that now

>Just a minor example, when V was offered the soul splice one of the demons said "Don't bother looking it up, it's a once in a century deal". Now a normal person would take this to be a message from the author that soul splices were homebrew and not in any sourcebook. A large fraction (probably the majority) of posters there took it to mean "it is a physical law of the universe that a soul splice can only be offered once every one hundred years" and proceeded to spend months arguing about it.

Right, so a few comics after this it was revealed that Redcloak and Xykon knew about soul splices, and a fifth of the forum went apeshit.

Any sane individual would guess that Xykon knows about soul splices because he's an epic level sorcerer, and Redcloak knows because he's a nerd who reads all sorts of obscure lore.

Not them. There were multiple threads by people who were convinced this was a plothole, because the soul splice "only happens once a century". Others argued that Xkyon could have known about it, because he's over 100, but there's no way Redcloak(who's around 50) should know.

Let me be clear about this. The GITP forums thought that Xykon knew about soul splices because he was alive one hundred years ago. They thought that Xykon, who would have been around eight years old at the time, miraculously received knowledge of this obscure magical technique by virtue of having been alive one hundred years ago. It happened, in some other plane around the world, and this knowledge was transmitted to the mind of a preteen, and he held on to this memory for a century until it became relevant. I am not making this up.

I think Rich no longer even bothers to read the forum. I feel bad for him - at least we can tell these people to fuck off, he has no choice but to grit his teeth and respond to their inanity politely.

What exactly does the Soul Splice do, anyway?

Did it literally pile in the levels of three other wizards on top of V's, putting his total level somewhere to the mid-60s at the very least? Because if that were the case, I don't think even Xykon should've been able to deal with it.

>>53520430
It did only for the purposes of spell slots. HP, and most importantly, saves and concentration checks were still tied to V's level. It doesn't matter if you have 8 epic level spell slots if you're just one failed concentration check away from losing them. Xykon flat out tells V as such.

And this brings us full circle to the "If you don't like my lessons don't show up" comment. He's clearly had enough. He can tolerate that sort of autism over D&D (barely), but when it's over a stupid single line that isn't touched on afterwards, it's too damn much for even him. If a little of his politics slipping into comic is enough to set someone off for hundreds of posts, he's well within his rights to just say "Don't read the damn thing if it makes you mad".

>>53520430
It's not explicitly laid out, but s/he definitely got the spells, and possibly the save DRs and effects on offense for them. It probably isn't in the mid 60s though, it's probably the DR/spellslot/etc of whichever soul he's casting the spell "from". The fiends mention that he effectively can't get XP, as his own CR is so absurdly high that nothing he fights is going to give him any.

Other stuff, like skills, HP, saving throws, etc, seem to be tied to V's 14-15th level wizard.

>>53521327
...so why does he read the fucking forum posts if they're that bad? It's like the creators of My Little Ponies going to a Brony forum.

>>53521417
Morbid curiosity, doubly so when it's all happening on his own forums?

I couldn't keep away if I tried.

>>53521417
He very rarely does, because every time he goes there he ends up being caught in an autism storm.

>>53521417
He's the forum admin. The forums are on his site. It's sadly part of his job. But as >>53521469 says he still very rarely does because something like this always happens. I honestly can't remember a time when he actually enjoyed interacting with them on a prolonged basis.

>>53521554
What is it about that website/his webcomic that attracts autists so rabid, even the artist hates his own fucking fanbase?

>>53521417
More like Bronies shitting up the official Hasbro forums with speculation about racial supremacist theories in Equestria (are earth ponies the unterpferden?).

>>53521661
>What is it about that website/his webcomic that attracts autists so rabid, even the artist hates his own fucking fanbase?

D&D has always been a pretty volatile thing, what with all the alignments and shit - and then 5e coming out probably increased the playerbase tenfold, and many of those players were almost certainly introduced to OotS through that.

The more people there are, the more shit spews on the surface.

>>53521554
I wonder what makes it like that. I occasionally go on the Erfworld forums, and while there's a lot of rabid speculation about tiny details, and fanning/hating certain characters, you don't get anything like this degree of autism >>53518379
>>53520245

>>53521327

You know what, this is a reasonable point. He has to deal with writing the strip, making the kick starter rewards, and managing his lunatic bin of a forum.

I won't complain about the girl power stuff anymore. It's not that overt, anyway. (Rich, if you're reading this, sorry for getting on your case)

>>53509489
Convert it to jpeg or something to kill any secret watermarks. C'mon anon, share with your pathetic poorfag fa/tg/uys. If you're too lazy to convert it, I'll even do it for you if you trust a random anon enough to email it to me.

>>53521709
It's a sad case when 4chan is legitimately a better place to discuss something than its home forums.

>>53496308
I'm just waiting for Roy vs. Durkula, forst fight was a letdown so I'll either be disappointed even more or feel glad I put up with it

>>53495810
he put out the 95 page ochul story out. so thats probably why the updates were so slow lately

>>53522620
Did anyone ever upload the others? Always wanted to read Redcloak's backstory

>>53524991
Just buy it dude, it's only like $12 on gumroad and it's easily the best thing Rich has ever written

>>53525011
Say what you want about him, but Rich writes some of the absolute best villains. He'd be a GOAT-tier DM.

>>53525011
Where I'm from that's enough to survive three days

>>53518551
No, Tarquin portrayed Tarquin to be a brilliant warrior and general. All that stuff that made you think he was? It was from Tarquin's own mouth.

Also, you could tell he was the Elan of the group from the very comic of the reveal. The vampire admitted he was always like that, talking about tropes and story and bullshit.

>>53519945
God, does anyone really think getting laid would help Miko at all?

She'd probably just go all fucking yandere on the first person to show her physical affection. Hot? Yes. But it'd probably somehow turn out worse than what actually happened. Which is hard to imagine, considering she murdered her liege, fell from paladinhood, and blew up a city unnecessarily, allowing Xykon to escape certain death.

>>53525107

No, he was obviously much more than that. Haley's father mentioned that he conquered a huge amount of territory very quickly, and it took an enormous alliance to defeat him.

Moreover, Elan's idiocy is complemented by his uselessness in combat. Tarquin however was portrayed as a canny, intelligent, and effective warrior from the very beginning. Plus, if he is the group moron he makes a far less threatening villain.

>>53525107
>>53525179
He was actually a good warrior, though. Just because his party gave him tons of shit for being a goof doesn't detract from that.

If you'd notice, though, the people who gave him the most shit were the ones who hadn't been with him recently. They probably forget how he is while they're rotating though their puppet governments, and take a while to get used to it again like Malack.

>>53496030
>>53496100
>>53496245
I'm pretty sure they talked about just hiding out in another plane while the gods sorted it out.

>>53501079
It's because we're so close to the end, and whole Durkon side plot has just kind of felt like a distraction from getting there.
I'm kind of hope that they get to the dwarf homelands quickly and resolve this vampire arc. I kind of want to get into the final arc now.

>>53525078
Have you read his articles on world building? There's some really interesting stuff in there, and he has an entire article dedicated to creating a good villain.

>>53524991
I have Start of Darkness in uh... Either a PDF or a series of bigass jpegs. I forget. I'll post a link when I get home, keep the thread alive for like an hour.

The other origin book I have a physical copy and I'm not bending the shit out of to scan it, sorry.

>>53525011
>>53525087

Don't want to start an argument, but this sometimes irks me. People assume (and they're justified in part) that everyone is from USA/West Europe when discussing shit like that. There you might be paid 12$ for an hour of a very menial job. In my country, the average (not median, mind you) net wage is 1000 euros a month. That basically comes out to about 15-17k $ per year. I have to work at my manual student job for two days to afford a dnd rule book, compared to 1-3 hours if I were from USA. It gets even crazier with shit like electronics where it's actually 1,5-2 times as expensive as in developed countries, but the wages are 2-5 times smaller.

So yeah, 12$ can be kind of a big deal, it means 3-5 student subsidised lunches for me or like 2 days of store bought food.

>>53525078
Rich is for sure among the top TTRPG storytellers, and probably DMs as well (though it doesn't always correlate). His setting came in second to Eberron in a WotC competition, so that should count for something.

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>>53526864
Goddamn that competition. Every campaign submitted became WotC intellectual property in perpetuity, regardless of whether Wizards actually ever does anything with it. There's a file somewhere in the Wizards HQ with Rich's entire original campaign setting, along with who knows how many other awesome original ideas, and none of it will ever see the light of day because they're all made for a game that's 2.5 editions out of date. And none of the entrants can release their entries because of a NDA.

Fuck Wizards.

>>53527107
I'd like to believe there is indeed such a file and it hasn't simply been binned after they got their winner. And yeah, to think of all the other settings. I'm pretty sure they weren't so mechanically rigid as to be unadaptable to new editions though, if only they released them.

>>53496245
I think they also brought up 'the world's always in danger'. 'Good and Evil do battle and Neutral gets footed with the bill' also springs to mind.

I interpreted it as: They know the world is in danger, but it always is and always will be and they're not Good so they don't care and don't want it to be their problem.

>>53499351
To be fair. Hands that don't look like ass are a bitch to draw. My experience trying and failing to not draw malformed potatoes on the ends of people's arms inclines me to be more forgiving of the whole fork hands thing.

>>53524991
>>53526044
As promised, Start of Darkness. It's a bunch of jpegs because whoever scanned it probably didn't know what they were doing, but the quality is good. (and it's supposed to be in black and white - it was printed that way)

mega.nz/#F!CttXxQLb!zdLO4U37uE1y4b1I-HmKZA

>>53502298
>Trying this hard to find something to be offended by.

White people can't be wrong. If a white person does something wrong it's clearly rampant SJW virtue signalling tumblr trash communist propaganda.

>>53527888
Your namefag is still on, Mr. Hitler Trips.

>>53503174
Elan's got a history of not really knowing how his magic stuff works. It wouldn't surprise me if Roy knew more about Mending's range than Elan did.

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>>53527667
>>53527731
>>53527888
>>53528013
Lose the name and go back to lurking. No one cares about your interpretation, experience, what surprises you, or whatever the fuck you're going on about white people.

>>53528405
Could you autismos not sling shit for one minute? Go post the pasta about anonymous posting and get out of this thread.

>>53521709
The difference is that Erfworld is a comic where minor details actually can become major plot points further down the line. Oots is not, but the fan base on its forum is autistic enough to think it is.

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>>53508565
Nothing but a stern word immediately, I'm sure. They still need her to get out of the pass and none of this crew are the type to risk their lives in the pursuit of justice (unless they're paid).

A pay-dock is just about the lightest sentence she could be given considering she literally instigated a mutiny, betrayed the client for this paid mission, and put ship and crew in fatal peril. But considering her demonstrated proficiency at her craft...

I mean, if I were in Bandana's shoes...:
I can't kill her because we need her on deck, particularly now and for what's to come.
I can't cordon her off in the brig because we need her on deck overseeing the engines, particularly now.
I can spare maybe one or two crewmen to guard her while she does what she needs to do to get us out of the pass, but that's still a gamble considering the entire crew were technically co-conspirators in her mutiny.
I can be reasonably assured she won't mutiny again because she witnessed her own deficiencies at command within minutes, thus it is to my advantage to keep her on board.
She has literally said she will not respect my command because she cannot see me as anything but her student. Thus it is to my disadvantage to keep her on board.

The Navy's answer would be a hanging, no question: But the navy can be assured a replacement for her technical skill.

The Pirate's answer would be a denial of shares for this expedition and dozens of lashes before the mast. We're talking the kind of lashing that lays out you out in sickbay for weeks. But even that would have to wait until we're out of dire straits and I cannot see us out of dire straits for the foreseeable future, nor would it be wise to issue a lashing for a crime committed potentially months after recollection of the incident has faded into memory. I am a pirate captain by charisma alone and tyranny will not hold my seat unless I can justify it in the moment, not after the moment.

This is what we'll do:

>>53503174
The actual rules on Mending are kind of sketchy, so it's possible that the DM could rule that you have to target the actual tear itself. Considering how large an air ship is, and how the first tear was on the side of the balloon, while the new one was right under it over the deck, it would make sense that Elan would have to climb up to cast the spell the first time, but not the second.

Was Tarkin epic level?

>>53528597
It was never confirmed, but considering how he was able to take the order all at once, it's likely that he was near epic at least.

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>>53528565
Place two guards on her and tell her to get back to work or we're all dead. Warn her we'll deal with her treachery later, but give her my word that if she helps to get us out alive, she'll live.

Keep two guards on her at all times until the plot lightens up enough to put her before the mast. I would have her sleep in the brig, but I assume she needs access to the materials in her quarters to work. She sleeps under guard, not a moment of privacy is afforded her. It is imperative for crew morale that everyone know she fucked up, and fucked up bad. We can't let a moment pass where the Sword of Damocles is not felt above her head. It's harsh, but it's worth it, we're pirates.

When we have a moment to breathe, we put her in chains before the mast charged on mutiny, treason, betraying the client, imperiling the ship out of her own vanity, reckless disregard for our lives, and nearly dooming us all. Deliver a speech reminding everyone that we nearly all died because of her. Impress upon her that under any other circumstance I'd have cast her over the side to the mercy of the frost giants, but out of consideration for her efforts getting us out and for our past: I'll be satisfied with stripping her of her shares for this expedition and two dozen lashes before the mast and she can count herself damn lucky.

I expect she'll be in sickbay for a week, but it's worth the risk to get this taken care of quickly. After she's punished the guard on her will be relieved and she'll be entrusted to her autonomy again.

What do you think, other voices in Bandana's head?

>>53510195
I dunno, I kinda liked the joke that a warrior woman from a barbarian tribe is henpecked by first world gender political issues.

It'd be one thing if it were like an elf or a human doing it, but it kinda cracks me up that it's a frost giant wielding a massive axe and wearing animal furs.

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>>53519839
I don't know about the music but I agree that miniarc was when Belkar got good. Real good.

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>>53521870

>>53521704

I would say it's the opposite. GITP has a small number of hyper entrenched users and maybe one in a hundred new people will stick with it to reach that level anyway.

But those assholes are invariably some of the smuggest motherfuckers out there. Rich's own rules and forum structure promote passive agressiveness and an implicit hierarchy where everyone gets a fancy title and the guy with the fancier title has more weight, and even if you call them on something stupid it won't matter next thread because mentioning that this person still has no idea what they're talking about will get you banned.

>>53519522
Except it isn't really, is it?

You know the difference. You know one is worse.

>>53529439
No? Zero is zero. One is more than one, because even one can be significant, zero is an absolute nothing.

>>53525860
Can you link them?

>>53529754
http://www.giantitp.com/Gaming.html

>>53529843
Thanks a ton

>>53521661
But that's not a theory it's a fact

>>53519864
Keep in mind that the person posting those crazed rants ITT has been copypasting them verbatim for years, and that any information coming from them is coming out of the mouth of someone who rants for years about what utterly abhorrent vile monsters Those Fuckers Over There are all the time. You should know whether that sort of thing can be taken at face value.

>>53524768
I know, right? This is the only place you can have actual discussion!

If by "actual discussion" you mean "people screaming in psychotic smug outrage and horror for hundreds of posts on end". But then you're clearly using "discussion" and "actual" in a non-meaningful sense, so you're probably not looking for actual discussion anyway.

>>53517595
To be fair, at least on /tg/ it's plausible that it's different people arguing that shit every day (even though we all know it's mostly the same ones). On a regular forum with usernames you know for a fact that you're going to end up posting the same arguments in a futile attempt to bludgeon some common sense into the same dumb motherfucker who shat all over the last fifty threads about the same subject.

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>>53530258

>>53528405
No one cares that you don't care, butthurt anon. The cycle continues.

>>53528597
I don't believe so. But he was fairly close. My guess is the level 18-19 range.

>>53530192
As someone who used to lurk the gitp forums I'll verify that those examples aren't an exaggeration

>>53528597
>>53530711
What can an epic level fighter do that a non-epic can't?

Does anybody remember what page V's demon deal was? And what page Tarquin and his group were introduced in? (the one with the fat dragon queen) It's been a while

>>53501118
She's a Southerner, dumbfuck.

>>53524768
That's true in lots of cases, but it's very true in this one.

>>53530258
Show me on the doll where we touched you

>>53496401
Looking at it I'm seeing a neon hair nigger.. I'm guessing this comic didn't improve any recently did it?

>>53530867
Take epic feats

Where can I read Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tails?

>>53526830

Okay, sorry for assuming I guess.

But keep in mind there a shitload of people in the US/Western Europe who have cash to spare and still can't be bothered to support their favorite artists. So if you can afford it, buy it

>>53530969

I thought Bandana was a Westerner?

it seems like in OOTS the northerners are white with a few black people, the southerners are asian, and the westerners are varying shades of brown.

>>53533045
I think Bandana and the pirates are mix of different colors so they have the whole ragtag motley look.

>>53531939
Yeah but for a fighter, what would those even let him do?

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>>53530192

I'm the guy who posted >>53520245 and >>53517831 and I can say that I've never posted in the OOTS threads here before.


BTW, remember when Miko died and the GITP forum argued for hundreds of posts whether Soon was lying to her about seeing Windstriker again, because she had fallen and if she could get her mount again that would count as being redeemed? But then he was lying that she couldn't be redeemed! Plot hole, Mr. Burlew! I found a plot hole!

>>53533369

Guy who posted the cap.

I can dig his post about how the girdle of masculinity/femininity was transphobic as well.

Look, I have no sympathy for the guy because of his forums. He made the rules in 2005 and instead of changing it so you can call retards retards, he made sure the culture there grew so you have what exists now.

So fuck him. He was made a millionaire by the kickstarter, and he sure as fuck could get an illustrator so his comics could have a schedule that wasn't one comic every three months.

>>53533498
>I can dig his post about how the girdle of masculinity/femininity was transphobic as well.

Dare I even ask?

Got a new computer, stopped bookmarking comics like normal, forgot about OotS. Shit load of time passes, remembered comic cause I finally saw this thread (I don't use the catalog)
Fuckers are still on the airship fighting giants
???

>>53533544

You know, the magical item that changes gender, which figured on the hotel arc of early oots.

Link: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?411301-Interview-Questions-For-Rich


Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
Do you ever plan to include a Transgender character in the comic?
On a related note, What are your feelings on the Girdle of Femininity/Masculinity story arc in retrospect?
I currently have no plans to include a transgender character because I think I kinda screwed up with the Girdle of Femininity/Masculinity story arc. I think I had my bite at that apple and don't think addressing the topic again would really solve anything. It's not as though I could have a transgender character without revisiting the existence of the belt, which may serve to trivialize their identities. However, if I later come up with a way to fit such a character in, I have no objections to doing so.

I certainly intend to include transgender characters in future works I write.

>>53534202
Oh, that doesn't sound too transphobic.

>>53533498

He did make the rules but it's not as though he has complete control over who posts on his forum. I think he started out wanting his forum to be a small place where people just discussed the comic and D&D in general. The rules were strict because he wanted to keep the content PG, which is imo entirely reasonable. I doubt he foresaw the sperg takeover and by the time it happened he was already writing Oots for a living. Kind of hard to tell them off without having it look like a meltdown, and he can't risk alienating his audience.

The kickstarter did not make him a millioniare. Kickstarter takes like 5%, and state and federal taxes took another 30-40%, and that's before you include the material and logistical costs of shipping out all those free books and stickers and whatnot. I'd be shocked if he made more than 400k off it. That's plenty of money, tbf.

More to the point I'm not incapable of sympathizing with someone richer than me. We all know how it feels to deal with autists and that's half Burlew's job.

>>53534202
>>53533544

I have no idea how that belt could be considered transphobic. It changes your gender. That's what they want. Even if you care about discrimination against transsexuals(which I don't) there's no logical way that including a magic item they'd all dearly love to have is supposed to be insulting toward them.

>>53534383
>He did make the rules but it's not as though he has complete control over who posts on his forum.

Consider how infamous his forums are. He doesn't need a meltdown, all he needs to do is to update the rules and get his notorious asinine mods to enforce them.

>The kickstarter did not make him a millioniare. Kickstarter takes like 5%, and state and federal taxes took another 30-40%, and that's before you include the material and logistical costs of shipping out all those free books and stickers and whatnot. I'd be shocked if he made more than 400k off it. That's plenty of money, tbf. More to the point I'm not incapable of sympathizing with someone richer than me. We all know how it feels to deal with autists and that's half Burlew's job.

I am self-employed. I can't allow diseases to prevent me from working. It's appaling that he can't employ part of that money investing in the comic. Consider that at the time of the kickstarter, his schedule was already inexistent. How much would it cost to pay an illustrator to draw the comic twice per month?

I can empathize with a shit situation. I cannot, however, when people with the means to fail to help themselves.

>
I have no idea how that belt could be considered transphobic. It changes your gender. That's what they want. Even if you care about discrimination against transsexuals(which I don't) there's no logical way that including a magic item they'd all dearly love to have is supposed to be insulting toward them.

That's the SJW mind for you. Your value is in how much "victimized" you are.

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>>53534615
>We all know how it feels to deal with autists
What are you implying good sir? *unsheathes katana*

>>53534615
The inclusion of the belt isn't transphobic in an of itself, it's the execution of the gender change that's transphobic. The gender change is curse - that's the literal term used - and it's treated as an utterly unpleasant, undignified experience that you'd want to undo as quickly as possible. I could see how someone could take offense to this presentation.

That's not to say that the self-absorbed thinskinned whiners are in the right either. We all know full well that a large bulk of the complaints are from people looking to feel special by having something to complain about. They just happen to have a somewhat valid complaint this time around.

>>53533369
>remember when Miko died and the GITP forum argued for hundreds of posts whether Soon was lying to her about seeing Windstriker again, because she had fallen and if she could get her mount again that would count as being redeemed? But then he was lying that she couldn't be redeemed! Plot hole, Mr. Burlew! I found a plot hole!
Fucking hell, how difficult is it to understand something Burlew basically spells out? Windstriker remains in the celestial plane (being a paladin mount and all), crossing planes is a thing that can be done and actually is done throughout the story, Windstriker still likes Miko enough to join her in whatever neutral realm (LN?) she resides in.

It's that. fucking. simple. Debating about alternate interpretations doesn't make you smart when the answer is fucking spelled out.

>>53535620
>The gender change is curse - that's the literal term used - and it's treated as an utterly unpleasant, undignified experience that you'd want to undo as quickly as possible.
Yes, that is how a normal, mentally healthy person would view an item that suddenly changed their gender.
I like how we've gotten to the point where having a character that doesn't wish to be trans is considered transphobic.

>>53536031
I mean, you don't necessarily have to change alignments to fall.

>>53536256
Yes, but striking down your lord in one fell swoop generally makes you do it.

>>53534615

>Consider how infamous his forums are. He doesn't need a meltdown, all he needs to do is to update the rules and get his notorious asinine mods to enforce them.

It wouldn't be that simple, SJWs are very petty and hiveminded, if he tried to right the ship they'd all freak and a decent portion would start harassing him or slandering him elsewhere. They'd do it with the same joyless enthusiasm with which they pour over every single word of the comic.

The illustrator is an interesting idea, though. It seems complicated - he has to get someone reliable, who's willing and able to imitate his style perfectly. In my limited experience artists seem unreliable, though, just look at Erfworld. Still, it's a good idea and I hope he considers it, maybe at least gets his wife or a friend to help him with the art part.

>>53535620
>The inclusion of the belt isn't transphobic in an of itself, it's the execution of the gender change that's transphobic. The gender change is curse - that's the literal term used - and it's treated as an utterly unpleasant, undignified experience that you'd want to undo as quickly as possible. I could see how someone could take offense to this presentation.

But isn't that exactly how transsexuals feel about their birth bodies? That's it's uncomfortable, sick and wrong that they have a penis and it'd be great if they could change that. I fail to see the problem here

Okay, who else is sick of talking about the GITP forums? Time to change the subject.

What do you guys think of the vampire arc? At first I hated it, but it's grown on me. You can think of the vampire as the personification of Durkon's resentment towards the dwarves for being exiled - it's really a chance for him to confront his repressed frustrations with what doing his duty has cost him.

I still think the arc is taking too long but I've wanted Durkon to develop for ages so I can hardly complain when it happens.

>>53536367
>What do you guys think of the vampire arc?
I always liked it, but I agree with you that it's been taking way too long - though that's more the fault of the giant encounter than anything else.

>>53528829

If it were me just throw her overboard once we are cross the mountains. If the giants can get her that's a bonus.

>>53532153
you can buy it off his webzone

>>53536367
>What do you guys think of the vampire arc? At first I hated it, but it's grown on me.
Do you mean the one which is currently unfolding? I'm a big fan of people breaking out of possession out of sheer anger and mental fortitude. Hopefully this will happen here.

>>53536367
>But isn't that exactly how transsexuals feel about their birth bodies? That's it's uncomfortable, sick and wrong that they have a penis and it'd be great if they could change that. I fail to see the problem here
This is exactly the part I hate about the 'you gotta include transexuals' thing that's been going on.
Why should every work ever now include someone who, by definition, loathes themselves? And if it's someone who has taken care of that problem, why does it matter that they had the opposite junk in the past? You don't explain every problem every character ever had.
The only people wanting it are the whiners who want to feel special. And fuck them.
I say this as someone who DOES loathe their body in exactly that manner.

>>53504801
As cheesy and jokey as Xykon is, I always adored his monologue with Demon-V over canneling the dead guys.

"Lichdom, Brain in a Jar, literally anything to hold off the big finale. What you're telling me is you're backed up by a couple of chumps who didn't even have the stones to stay in the game."

>>53539593
Dysphoria can be mild discomfort that only comes up every now and then, it doesn't have to be "I HATE MY BODY" 24/7. Also, if you belong to a minority, I think it's acceptable to want to see that minority in the works you consume, and that desire isn't necessarily indicative of special snowflake syndrome.

(We probably agree that, despite what SJWs claim, creators aren't morally obligated to listen. It's like giving a homeless guy money, you're helping a stranger if you do, but you aren't a monster if you never do it.)

>>53540117
>you're helping a stranger if you do
Actually, in a lot of cases, you're basically just feeding a man's addictions, fueling his self destructive tendencies even more.
If you really wanted to help him, you would give him what he actually needs (Food, a Job, or real medical help).

A good metaphor for a lot of SJW movements, actually.

>>53528829
Just tell her the same thing as everyone else: "Do your shit or die."
If they make it out alive and the crew is still fine having her around, then it's better to keep an engineer you know instead of getting one you don't.
Really dude... charges? Guards? Why would anyone care? She's not gonna sabotage the ship unless she's suicidal, and if she wanted to run, where's she gonna go?

>>53535620
>Even though the complaints are valid, I'm morally obligated to bash and demonize the people who make them anyway, because they're evil monsters and are wrong even when they're right.
That's an interesting mentality you have there.

>>53540117

This sentiment is common among people who like to insert ethnic and sexual minorities into fiction. It's very patronizing, I think.

It's as if SJWs truly believe that there's going to be some LGBT teenager who is depressed and on the verge of killing himself, but then he sees a gay video game character and is filled with hope. Gee, dealing with sexual dysfunction or body dysmorphia is not so difficult now. Or a black guy growing up fatherless in a slum. He used to think his life was hard, but then Spiderman was black and it gave him the inspiration to get his GED and start working toward that compsci degree. That's how you help the disadvantaged, give them cartoon characters that look like them.

The sheer smugness and condescension of it almost annoys me more than the token characters themselves.

>>53540223
It's a good metaphor to people who want to shout down others' problems until they're effectively screamed out of existence.

>>53540223
Fine, giving to an organization that provides the homeless with food, shelter and direction is better, but I don't like to get autistically precise with my metaphors. I think you got my point.

>>53540384
Some representation definitely comes off as condescending and auto-congratulatory, but I don't think it always has to be.

>>53540384
Wow, you are REALLY eager to be offended by this.

>What's that? People want minority groups to be represented in fiction? How DARE they think that people might identify with characters who have something in common with them! How DARE they acknowledge that fiction might give people a new perspective! How DARE they think about how other people might feel! They are so SMUG and PATRONIZING and INFANTILIZING and RACIST and HYPOCRITICAL and UGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

It's amazing how people who treat "hypocrisy" as the ultimate attack become so eager to find it anywhere they can that they end up supporting completely ridiculous ideals in an effort to prove that they're "better" at social justice than the evil monsters who offend them so much.

>>53540384
I understand that people feel that there should be more ethnic minority characters, and that's fair, but it shouldn't come from a place of obligation, it should come from a place of genuine interest in the subcultures and conditions that these people tend to live in. Otherwise just feels like a you're filling out a check book of bullet points if you slap in a black character, or a gay character, or a trans character. It's not serving a purpose in the narrative, and it's not something you're actually interested in fleshing out, so why even do it? I would love to see more characters of these types, but it should be coming from people who understand the issues that these sorts of characters would face, it shouldn't be a thing that trendy liberals do because "muh inclusion".

Besides, I don't need a character of my ethnicity to find characters that I can relate to. People have this strange thing where they can totally relate to characters that have relatable, human traits, even if they aren't human at all. Isn't that strange?

>>53540413
And here we have the classic victim complex.

>>53540512

I never mentioned hypocrisy, so this sounds like a canned response you've been waiting to spew out at the first person who disagreed with you.

>>53540537

Yeah, if Rich had made Vaarsuvius gay that would've been fine. V is important, his family life is important, and homosexuality would suit his character, since he is notoriously unconcerned with gender. But doing it with a filler like Bandana is just lazy tokenism

>>53540582
>I didn't use that one exact word even though I used the concept it describes, so I can safely ignore your counterargument.
If your noise gets "generic" responses, it's because it's generic nonsense. People have been throwing soundbites back and forth for ages about how inclusiveness is "actually" patronizing and intolerant and how everyone should be offended by it; your personal noise didn't say anything new. Not even the deliberately ridiculous strawman scenario is new; people love creating exaggerated imaginary scenarios which "obviously could never happen" to make something look like nothing.

>>53536031

I read that as Miko is going to hell and Windstriker will basically be doing prison visits to see her.

>>53540767
How come? Minor characters are allowed to be gay just as much as main characters, and it's not like it was ever shoved at our faces - she just sort of off-handedly mentioned it, twice.

>>53540767
But then he'd have to commit to a gender for V.

>>53540919
>mentioned it once or twice
>not shoved in our faces
You're not very familiar with anti-representation rants, are you?

>>53540767
I mean, V might be gay. It's kind of hard to say.
I like to think that V is a female and the baker is her husband, but it's really up for debate.

>>53540944
Nah, he could be a gay guy or a gay girl about equally.

>>53540919
hmm... it does sound more reasonable when you put it that way. And I did say I'd stop complaining about that stuff upthread. So... I suppose I've been overreacting based on my frustrations when it's happened in other works.

>>53540974

Yes but once you go 'his gender is the same as his partner' there is a data point that the autists can obsess over. It is far better in its current state where we have nothing but a pair of androgynous stick figures.

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Be honest, /tg/, when you first read OotS, what sex did you assume she was?

>>53541064
I assume everyone is a man until shown otherwise.

>>53541064
Elf.

>>53541095
So what you're saying is it's not gay if it's with an elf?

>>53540963
>>53541064
It's an elf, of course it's female.

>>53541064
>>53541095
That's what I quickly settled on as well. V's an elf.

>>53541064
Who knows. Even the main cast seems confused.

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>>53541017
Really, when you put it in perspective, Rich is about the most subdued liberal webcomic artist out there, since the most egregious example people have of his politics slipping in is a "girl or fella" line from two years ago.

>>53515303
>>53516972
>HOW DARE you point out the bad shit in my work? I WILL DO THE SAME THING ONLY WORSE NEXT TIME! THAT'LL SHOW YOU! UNTIL THEN I WILL BE IN MY SAFE SPACE!

You're right that's not an SJW freakout, that's classical SJW tumble tantrum.

>>53542860
>bad shit
Do you know what they spent so long sperging out about? "All I really want is fer ye ta grow up an' find a nice gal or fella ta settle down with." They spent ages arguing over whether or not that was "awkward" or not. His response is completely justified to that tempest in a teakettle.

>>53542734
In the light of that 'my webcomic is a classroom' comment I bet he thinks he's the most subtle liberal webcomic artist, who is going to make SJW stuff sooooo ingrained and not-in-your-face that readers will just get 'educated' to accept it by the last panel.

>>53542981
So? It does not make this piece of shit dialog any better and it does not make this creator tantrum anything else either.

And anyway, OOTS forums are spergy af, that's true -- but the safe space 'Ima great teacher' meltowns do not happen in every 'is belkar really evil no really really is he evil?' thread, do they?

>>53543124
>forum autists spend a literal thousand posts arguing about shit that doesn't matter
>but the webcomic writer is the bad guy for telling them to stop being so fucking autistic

ok

>>53543048
>>53543124

It was a dickish thing to say, but consider that his forum is basically one big special ed class.

On the rare occasions someone there offered him an intelligent criticism I remember him being far more reserved and polite while responding.

>>53543217
> spinning that meldown as 'he told them to stop being autists'
> ignoring the fact that all other threads are same 'arguing about shit that doesn't matter' for fucking years and are getting creator-ignored (as is the correct way to do)

son, are you in politics or something?

>>53543258
I remember him not responding to more special ed threads then I could bother to count but it's never the morality/alignment threads that draw lightning and always the SJW stuff.

The real mystery tho is this: how come the 'discussion' threads are unreadable but the dnd materials and homebrew and whatnot are so good. Is this the 'evaporative cooling' effect in play or what.

>>53543124
>>53543497
No, but there are two differences there:
A: that at least is something actually in the comic, instead of endless arguments over whether it's "awkward".
B: they don't take over the actual comic discussion threads anymore. The heavy reaction was because they were spending the entire discussion page arguing over *that* instead of other things in Durkon's backstory, like his reasoning for becoming a cleric.

I could swear I remember him coming down hard the last time Familicide got argued to death in a discussion thread too.

>>53543497
>The real mystery tho is this: how come the 'discussion' threads are unreadable but the dnd materials and homebrew and whatnot are so good. Is this the 'evaporative cooling' effect in play or what.

Different (with some overlap) userbases, same as the boards here.

>>53540963
V's gender is Elf.
Its mate's gender is Elf.
Their children are Elf and Elf.
Elves only come in one gender.

>>53543567
> that at least is something actually in the comic
dialogue is a part of a comic, I don't think splitting hairs here achieves anything

The last time I remember Rich being that triggered on a non-SJW matter was in some 'Is Tarquin's defeat a deus ex machina?' thread, where he sperged out about how his storytelling is the best and Tarquin was never hyper-competent anyway and how dare people call it 'deus ex machina'. Which kinda aligns with the 'Rich thinks himself a great educator making a great work of art' theory.

NB: Tarquin's defeat was so obviously heavy handed deus ex machina, it was hilarious to both read the comic AND the arguments about how that development is the most natural flow of events ever.

>>53501118
>WHO FUCKING CARES ABOUT THIS BULLSHIT, THESE ARE LITERAL WHO NPCS, GET ON WITH THE MAIN STORY ALREADY
>t. every player EVER

>Jeez, updates have been coming fast lately.

Maybe he was doing something in the month and a half or whatever it was where nothing came out.

>>53544112
I agree and I don't agree. Yes, having having Julio show up at the last second was ridiculous. But at the same time, I think he could have possibly written in the order winning without adding Julio. Tarquin and Laurin were higher-level but she had already used a shitload of teleportation magic and he was just a fighter. Just have Durkon energy drain her a few more times, and since v had most of his spells left he could have easily picked her off. Then, of course, Tarquin would have lost.

But of course Rich needed them to have a way to get to the northern continent quick. Which is really what Julio's sudden appearance is about. So yeah, it's an instance of bad writing but it's not terrible writing

By the way I'm not the same guy you responded to.

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>>53544343
>having Julio show up at the last second was ridiculous

>>53544112
>the [Deus Ex] Mechanus
>the ship that literally arrives "just in the nick of time"
>not a plot device so blatant it would give Athena in Ulysses a run for her money
ayyyy

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>>53545422
>Ulysses

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>>53545475
What?

>>53544343
I mean, hard is that to believe but having Deus Ex Mechanus showing up is not even the most ridiculous asspull even happening in that fight. Tell me why two high-level primary spellcasters with decades of experience and preparation are *standing* on the *ground* being *visible* in front of MELEE-HEAVY enemy party in 927? Why were they *sitting* on the dino at all? FFS, my 5-level mages take Flight and Invisibility immediately because that's how you avoid the 'xykon is feeling chilly today' bullshit. Without that, OOTS tries to piledive Tarquin, whiffs horribly and the rest is the question of how Miron wants to mop up, I'd personally start with Quickened Evards' into Abi-Dalzim's -- but that's just my preference.

Anyway, the whole encounter was one asspull after another culminating with bullshit.

>>53544433
> muh lampshade hanging fixes everything, if you dont like it get out of muh classroom!

>>53540768
>If someone shitposts at you, it's because you did something to deserve it
cool story bro

>>53548594
Rich has stated numerous times that the casters don't act optimally because the story wouldn't be as interesting if they did. They've always been suboptimal, that's nothing unique to that encounter.

>>53548594
>>53548756
Would you honestly want to read a story where Durkon takes divine metamagic, buys a shitload of nightsticks, and steamrolls everything? Does that sound fun or exciting to you?

You guys are literally arguing with the autismos that got BTFO'd by Rich in one of those threads and are immeasurably salty about it. Well, them and morons who think optimal DnD playing=good story.

>>53548756
>>53548865
there is a difference between 'acting suboptimally' and 'grabbing a giant idiot ball'. V is fucking flying the whole encounter because he can AND he shoud. ZZ'dri was flying all the time, random mook casters fly but lvl16+ sorcerer almost impaling himself on a rogue-fighter-VAMPIRE comp is apparently OK?

There is no excuse for being in melee range -- once again -- of a melee heavy group that repeatedly SHOWED to you that it is a melee heavy group if you are a squishy sorcerer who was able to fly for the last 10+ levels. You would not GET to be lvl 16 if you would act that stupid.
'Casters act suboptimally' does not even begin to cover this load of crap, sorry.


>>53549105
have a (you)

>>53550005
V got mindraped. Is it that hard to believe that he would accidentally float down a bit because of that? Is that really too much for your suspension of disbelief?

>>53548594
I feel like Rich wakes up every day regretting making OotS a DnD webcomic. Autists are more concerned with rulings and efficient builds than storytelling or acting in character.

Also, Elan calling in backup was established like 30 strips before that, and a ton of people saw it coming.

>>53551540
>Autists are more concerned with rulings and efficient builds than storytelling or acting in character.

Using your abilities to the fulles would be acting in character for an intelligent character, I think.

That said, yeah, if you want a semi-serious world that makes internal sense, you should have not based it on 3.5 of all things.

>>53550005

Okay, let's have Miron flying in the air. Now how does Rich write it?

>Miron is flying
>Haley hits him with her arrows of course
>Belkar jumps up and stabs him
>Durkon turns into a bat and drains a level
>Vaarsuvius hits with his disintegrate
>Miron teleports away anyhow

wow it turns out there's no fucking difference between miron flying and not flying either way he'd have to bugger off. With him on the ground we get to see that Roy is smart enough to understand V's message, and a preview of his spellsplitter feat.

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>it's a thread about the GITP forum

I like most of the D&D threads they've got, there's some nice people with genuine expertise at times.

And then there's this guy about how you should write gay people in your games.

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I don't even.

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>Drow are literally black people because of their skin colour

>>53552807
I must be really out of it because this is confusing the shit out of me

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>>53553273
>he wants two pizza slices
>they have an offer for two pizza slices called "two pizza special"
>the cashier asked if that is what he wants
>he says no, just give me the two slices
>the cashier says that the two pizza slices are cheaper this way
>the retarded gizmo doesn't want the fucking special REEE
>the cashier says fine, no special for you then
>*a wild tard wrangler customer appears*
>don't you fucking scam him you piece of shit don't give him the special
>the tard eventually buys more expensive pizza
>proceeds to thank the tard wrangler

>>53541064
Male, because of xir name ending with "us". What, doesn't everyone think that? That's my opinion until it's shown otherwise.

I'm rereading OotS right now and it's great. What is the recommended order of reading?
I remember I had this down to an art a couple of years ago but now I'm drawing blanks. Just finished Dungeon Crawlin' fools, is on the origin of PC's next or paladin blues?
And is start of darkness before or after the Sapphire city siege book?

>>53555512
Trouble is, his mate's name also ends in "us".

>>53555531
As far as I'm concerned the books can be read at just about any point, but if you hesitate, the best place to read just about all of them would probably be right after the Azure City siege.

>>53555531

dungeon crawlin fools
on the origin of pcs
paladin blues
war and xps
start of darkness
dont split the party
blood runs in the family

>>53555487
Goddam, so it was that dumb. I sure I was reading that shit wrong or something

>>53555536
Then I suppose they're a couple of faggots.

>>53550276
> V got mindraped. Is it that hard to believe that he would accidentally float down a bit because of that?
what the fuck are you talking about? first thing V does in open-air encounter is 'fly UP'. You know why? Because it's THE thing to do. There is literally no action that compares to that in efficiency.

>>53552740
You autismo are imagining Miron flying 20 feet off the ground or what? Fuck, you are retarded. Try 80 feet. No sneak attacks no jumping no greatsword. I don't think Durkon even CAN bat at that point but IF he can bat AND land an attack and drain a level as a bat -- it's still far preferrable to a couple of greatsword hits, HP-wise. Now add a single defensive spell and do the math again.

But -- and this where your autism and >>53551540 oots cock-sucking combines -- the point is not DnD rules or whether Miron survives 1st round if he's flying -- the point is that being in melee range means he acts completely out of character for an experienced spellcaster.

Anyway, at this point I am sure that Rich can write up Redcloak tying himself hand and foot and rolling to OOTS's feet as his first combat round action and you morons will still defend his bullshit (as long as he monologues for 5 minutes that his actions are to 'free up space he has unfairly taken from minority goblin women').

>>53551629
this guy gets it

>>53551540
>I feel like Rich wakes up every day regretting making OotS a DnD webcomic.
OOTS only got initial traction because it was a DnD webcomic so how about no?

>>53496339
>minor conflicts and clashes
>minor

I feel like they've been at war with these frost giants for a year.

>>53557036
The comic where the encounter began was uploaded on August 30 of the last year.

Your estimation is depressingly close.

>>53556417

>But the point is not DnD rules or whether Miron survives 1st round if he's flying -- the point is that being in melee range means he acts completely out of character for an experienced spellcaster.

You want an in character explanation for Miron's fuckup? Consider that he and the rest of his team only created their empire in the first place because they got lazy and decided not to adventure anymore. So while they're still high level, they've been sitting on their asses for about 20 years and it's not impossible that some of their instincts have dulled. Especially when he wasn't taking it very seriously in the first place.

Plus he had just gotten off the Triceratops (which likely had a pretty high charging speed so he might have been left behind on overland flight) and he only had the chance to cast like one spell, which Roy disrupted.

>Anyway, at this point I am sure that Rich can write up Redcloak tying himself hand and foot and rolling to OOTS's feet as his first combat round action and you morons will still defend his bullshit (as long as he monologues for 5 minutes that his actions are to 'free up space he has unfairly taken from minority goblin women').

No, that would piss me off (also I'm not one of the SJW's). But order of the stick has never pretended to be an optimized setting, even back when it was about satirizing the rules. So I'm not sure why this particular comic bothered you when the dozens of other instances of high-level people doing stupid shit didn't.

>>53557185
When your 'in-character explanations' are 'his combat instincts are dulled' and 'he was bored', I don't buy them.
As for the 'tops, it makes some sense to sit on it while it's charging through wormholes* -- but that was what, 2-3 combat rounds ago? There is literally no excuse for Miron being on the 'tops after he casts baleful poly, less for being on the ground afterward.

Anyway, you can hand-wave every bullshit thing that happened in that encounter including deus ex mechanus, the point is that good writing wouldn't require this amount of hand-waving and upon being told that on forums creator sperged out hard.

*you dont sit on 'tops, you hold on to its horn while flying, preferably in improved invis.

>>53557688

>When your 'in-character explanations' are 'his combat instincts are dulled' and 'he was bored', I don't buy them.

The latter is admittedly a weak argument, but I think the former is correct. Miron got careless by not buffing up, Laurin got careless by using too much PP too soon, and Malack got careless because he spent so much time in the sun he forgot the middle of the fucking desert was no place for a vampire. Rich actually mentions the third point in one of the books so I'm not just writing headcanon.

>Anyway, you can hand-wave every bullshit thing that happened in that encounter including deus ex mechanus,

I agree that having the airship show up at the last second was bad writing. I just don't think it's quite as bad as you apparently do, because it ultimately wasn't intended to get the order out of an unwinnable fight, since they could have plausibly won. It was intended to get the order from point A to point B without wasting a dozen strips on them going to town and getting a boat or whatever. Also to have a good splash page.

>the point is that good writing wouldn't require this amount of hand-waving and upon being told that on forums creator sperged out hard.

There is plenty of bad writing in order of the stick but I think a lot of it's due to the fact that he's writing within a 3.5 universe. If he had them act like halfway competent adventurers, Durkon and V would overshadow the rest of the party all the time. In order to give the lower tiers a chance to shine, he has to cheat a little. Sometimes a lot.

I try not to think about how things would work in a real campaign. As long as the order comes up with a plan that makes some sense, and the characters get to do something cool,I'm happy. I'm willing to cut him some slack because I see it as an unavoidable problem of using a D&D setting.

If I'm gonna bitch about something it'll be all the excess dialogue and useless subplots. That, he can avoid.

>>53557981
>Miron got careless by not buffing up, Laurin got careless by using too much PP too soon
Furthermore, I don't think either of them would've been especially motivated to do their best for Tarquin's narrative bullshit. This lowered morale would add to the dulling of instincts and result in them just not bothering to give their best.

>>53557688
You're boring AND uninformed!

>>53558931
Have another (you)

>>53557981
>>53558147
your level of tolerance and definition of 'plausibility' is clearly very different from mine. I think we should leave this at that because we're straying into the unproductive territory here. I can kinda see where your POV is, it's just hilariously unacceptable for me.

>>53559938
I can find a rational explanation to it, and it makes for an infinitely better story. I don't think I need anything else.

>>53559938

Fair enough. We all have different tastes.

(BTW, I'm not >>53559995 or >>53558147 )