GURPS General /GURPSGEN/

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Grimwyrd after action report!

Alright bros! Lets game!
...3 hours later...
>debating how to press an army from refugees
>provisioning math
>"If we feed them for free, they may come to expect it. This is not charity. We are not offering them a peaceful, easy meal. We are offering them the chance to fight for a place at the table."
>"It's not about the free meal. It's about showing you can provide for them. It's about showing that if they follow you and do what you ask you can make food happen.
If they follow you then you will have the resources of a thousand able bodied people at your disposal. Command them wisely and you will have little trouble keeping the people fed"

Truth be told, they did eventually decide to just head into the refugee village and go straight to the leadership, but this was after they had lunch, recruited 20 militiamen, and convinced themselves not to arm the populace until after the formal arrangements were made

So of course the moment they're on the wrong side of the wall, they're confronted by the estranged half elf Rover brother of their old ally Aachen! And he's sporting a new rune encrusted scar over his heart and big old fangs!

>>53464377
Are there better rules for the slam action?

>>53464377
This week on Grimwyld:

We got paid, in a way. With the noblemen dead his majordomo provided us with a box of portable valuables, candlesticks, silverware and china. Also threw in a cart and horse.

So fortified, the group had a long talk about the best way to try and recruit the strong and hale among the desperate refugees from when we accidentally blew up the south. We thought of bringing food or collecting weapons but deiced it was best to check out the lay of the land first and went to go search for the leaders at the camp.

Then we met with an elf we'd run into before. Kind of a fuckup asshole that we'd nearly killed last time we met, but he said he could take us to a leader, a "witch queen".

>>53464489
Better in what way? Less complicated or better for damage?

>>53464527
Less complicated, damage is fine.

>>53464547

The easiest rule switch is to just have Slams deal Thrust CR damage and whoever deals less damage rolls vx DX or gets knocked down.

For more in keeping with the other rules, just calculate slam damage as if the person had performed their full move and and use that every time, so you don't have to recalculate in the field.

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>Combat Reflexes
>+1 to all active defenses, and some other benefits
>15 points, a mundane advantage

>Enhanced Dodge + Enhanced Parry (All) + Enhanced Block
>+1 to all active defenses and no other benefits, making the three strictly worse than Combat Reflexes
>30 points total, all are cinematic advantages

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>>53464872
Being a hardened killer with the instincts to match is super useful, and under-costed to make Player Character's more survivable and set them apart from most people. Combat reflexes is, in GURPS, sort of the advantage that sets common people apart from the really dangerous.

Enhanced Defenses are all priced with two assumptions:

1) You already took Combat Reflexes and can't pick that low hanging fruit twice.

2) You are stacking them on your best defense and the one you will be using almost all the time.

>>53464872
An intentionally cheap advantage used to make new players better.

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>>53465974
I feel like that and Luck go a long way to making Player Character's just enough better then monsters and lesser men to make the game fun without them feeling overpowered.

Here's a 100 points GURPS character for GURPS 4e. I think 100 points is a fair baseline for an adventurer.
ST 10, DX 10, IQ 10, HT 10
Don't even bother with advantages and disadvantages for now.
Set aside 20 points for side skills. This gives you 80 points to put into the guns skill of your choice. Pick rifles because they deal the most damage: you can just use defaults for the others, it won't matter because your skill will be so fucking high anyway. Guns is an Easy skill, so you can get it to 15 for 16 points. Another 16 will get it to 19, another 16 will get it to 23, another 16 will get it to 27, another 16 will get it to 31. There. You have put 80 points into your Rifles skill and now have a 31.
Now you can spread those other 20 points around into minor skills such as Armoury, First Aid, Stealth, et cetera. Sure you won't be good at them, but you're not the skill monkey. So who cares? You can headshot motorcycle gangs with lateral speed of 20 m/s from a half-mile. Oh, and if really want, take just 20 points of disadvantages and you can bump that rifles skill up to 36.
So what can you do with a 36 in Rifles? Well, lets take a look at the range / movement table. This is without taking a 1-second round to aim, by the way.
> you can easily score a headshot (-7) on a running target (-2) at 100 yards (-10). You're rolling against a 17 there, so you've got a 99% chance of success.
>If we extrapolate the range table, you could reliably hit someone at 1 mile distant who is running (-2) and be rolling against like a 17 or something.
>God forbid someone arms you with a Gauss rifle or even a .338. The former has Acc7+2, so with three seconds of aiming you could have an effective Rifle skill of 45.
GURPS 4e is broken.

>>53467035
That's wrong, stop posting that.

>>53467243
Did you know you can hide post? The little triangle to the right of the post number allows you to hide post that are shit. It's a useful trick that allows you to easily ignore bait posting faggots.

>>53467283
>hiding posts

>>53467243
>That's wrong

Explain how a single thing I said was wrong.

>>53464872
>a single level advantage

>multi-level advantages

Almost like there's a difference there.

Back to the Dual Weapon technique and Extra Arms question. Since Kromm himself said that you can use DWA with each of your arms, doesn't that make it better than Extra Attack in most cases? Extra Arms is worth [10], Ambidexterity is [5] and DWA costs [5] making it a total of [20] for the first additional attack and [10] for every consecutive additional attack beyond that (Since you only need extra arm). This doesn't allow you to use Innate Attacks more often, though. Also the more limbs you have of one type, the more easily cripled are they. Are there any other drawbacks to this? Lets not forget the bonuses to Grappling you get from having so many arms.

>>53467412
>GURPS 4e is broken.

It's working as intended for all purposes.
I know it's a troll, senpai.

>>53468558
Dual-Weapon Attack just gives -1 to the defense roll, but Extra Attack makes the target suffer the penalties for multiple parries or blocks, which are much harsher.

>>53468558
>In most cases

No, because in most cases you will be playing a biped with two manipulator limbs.

>>53469026
It's GURPS man. Clearly he was assuming arbitrary physical morphology.

Worst case, you can say it's a divide like Very Slow Regeneration vs Very Rapid Healing. The one anybody can buy is slightly worse then the one you can only get as an Exotic advantage.

>>53468558
You need a weapon for each hand, which can get expensive, while Extra Attack (Multistrike) lets you slice and dice with only one weapon.

>>53468880
Dual-Weapon Attack is worded as an additional attack though, which adds an ADDITIONAL -1 to the defense of the defender because he is attacked twice, at the same time. Dual-Weapin Attack seems even better in that case.

>>53469026
Funny guy. Clearly this assumes the cases when you do have 3+ arms.

>>53469331
Unarmed Attacks are actually allowed, but that is a nice catch, though probably not a huge issue unless you want/can get expensive gear. Multistrike does scale really well with extra powerful, unique weapons though (and Innate Attack)

>>53469194
On that note, totally independent from Exotic vs human advantages, you HAVE to buy all your Extra Arms with your starting points and can't save up to buy more later, which is something you totally can do with Extra Attack. Physiology rarely changes late in life, but if Extra Attack is something people can learn, they can probably learn it whenever.

Someone that spends 40 points on extra arms may not perform as well or last as long as a character than spent 40 points on other combat/survival traits and plans to pick up Extra Attack later.

Of course, now that I think about it, Extra Arm's biggest limitation is probably that it's not available at all unless the GM already included it in a racial template.

>>53469405
Not entirely true. Extra Arms by default might work that way, but you could allow them as mutations, magical or psionic effects for instance. You can always adjust things with GURPS to fit a more suitable view of it.

Extra Attack is also considered semi-cinematic, any more than 2 attacks per turn is definitely cinematic.

GM approval applies in both cases, though you are probably more likely to get away with Extra Attack over DWA and Extra Arms, whether they are mutations, magical or otherwise

>>53470124
Adding onto that, I was more looking for inherent drawbacks in having multiple arms vs extra attack, instead of GM approval. Assuming both are 100% allowed, which one is superior? That's the idea I'm going for.

Extra Attack (Multiattack) is [30] per attack. It allows you to attack several times using any limb, bite, natural weapon, innate attack or similar with no drawback.

Extra Arm [10], Ambidexterity [5] and DWA [5] allows you to make an attack with all your hands only, at no penalty. This costs [20] for the first attack and then [10] each extra attack. However, your arms are more easily crippled and I believe a crippled limb inflicts a knockdown roll to stay conscious, which is a heft drawback. They also add the benefit of improved grappling and a -1 to the enemy's defense when defending multiple attacks. Did I miss anything?

>>53470155
>Extra Arm [10], Ambidexterity [5] and DWA [5] allows you to make an attack with all your hands only, at no penalty. This costs [20] for the first attack and then [10] each extra attack.
Buying 3rd arm?
It is just [10] for human to attack with all two arms only at no penalty.

>>53470244
Nice catch. So [10] + [10] per attack after the initial two.

What people seem to forget/ignore is that DWA is specialized by skill.
Equivalent of that would be Extra Attack (Multi-attack, +20%; Single Skill, -20%) if you want direct comparison.

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>>53470344
>DWA is specialized by skill

>>53470477
What book is that from?

>>53470691
I'd assume Martial Arts, if not Basic Set.

>>53470973
It's in neither, nor is it in the DF pyramid collection, Powers, or Supers. Not in AtE, Action!, or MH. Of course it's buried in DF. DF11:13.

So Extra Attack (Single Skill -20%) [20] functions roughly the same as DWA [5], although in this case both would require Ambidexterity. This makes me think that Single Skill at -20% for Extra Attack might be too tiny of a modifier. DWA wins out RAW by the additional -1 to defenses from the attacks being at the same time (though the GM can/should probably make the two equivalent, giving an additional -1 penalty to the defender's defenses if you choose to attack the same person with two different attacks at once.

I want to use garrote but can't find specifics. Damage seems to be counted as st+3, but I'm not sure how to roll for it. Any advice?

>>53471737
B, 405.
ST bonus works only for Choke Technique.

>>53467035
Except the second your Guns skill becomes higher than 18 for mundane character, GM slaps you on the face, violates your behind and kicks you out of his house for being a munchkin doofus.

I bet you're the guy who rolls up to 3.5e games with all Dragon magazines and ends up playing some god of destruction at level 3.

>>53471905
That post has been in the last four or five threads. It's been beaten to death. Stop replying to it. Filter it if you must.

>>53471827
Thank you!

>>53470155
Only thing I can think of is really niche; if you're using chambara rules from Martial Arts, I don't think the extra attack from DWA counts as a "true" attack, meaning you can't trade it for Steps.

I think DWA does count as an additional full attack for every other purpose, though, including replacing one with a Feint.

>>53471905
Stop giving the retard (You)s.

How does GURPS handle targetting components in vehicular/spaceship combat?

>>53474861
B, 554

>>53474956
I don't have the book yet and the pdfs don't have a page 554.

I just wanted a rough idea of how targeting g works and how component hit points work.

>>53475156
Do you have Basic Set: Campaigns open? You are using 4e, right?

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>>53475156
>I don't have the book yet and the pdfs don't have a page 554.

?

>>53475156
>I just wanted a rough idea of how targeting g works and how component hit points work.
Same as for humanoids

>>53475177
>>53475184
Oh it's in Campaigns? I presumed it would be in characters. I thought the campaigns book is the Dungeon Masters Guide sort of thing.

I'll have a look cheers

>>53468646
>It's working as intended for all purposes.

Clearly not since it's meant to be ""realistic"" but an average 100 point adventurer can headshot a running target in darkness without issue.

>>53471905
>Except the second your Guns skill becomes higher than 18 for mundane character, GM slaps you on the face, violates your behind and kicks you out of his house for being a munchkin doofus.

That's not part of the rules. Butthurt GMs who can't deal with someone who knows to play the game better than they do, are not the issue here.

>>53474861
If you use Spaceships' rules, you target a hull section (front, central, or rear) and roll 1d6 to determine which system you hit in that section. Targeting a specific section can be done at a penalty.

>>53475318
Common misconception; the basic set pair of books work together. The majority of the character building stuff is in 1 and most of the setting stuff is in 2, but it's all mixed those two together in the end. Hence why they numbered them as a single volume

>>53475624
So don't play the game. Problem solved.

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>>53475909
No no, I want to play the game. But I am going to be playing a character with Guns 31. And if you kick me out, you are breaking the rules. Just like a DM kicking out the Locate City Bomb or Pun Pun, both are completely within the rules, but GURPS is just as broken as 3.5 is.

>>53476172
>And if you kick me out, you are breaking the rules.

Basic Set, p. 486.
>The GM is the final authority.

>And if you kick me out, you are breaking the rules
HEY GUYS I BROUGHT CHARACTER WITH ETK TL9 ASSAULT RIFLE TO THE FANTASY CAMPAIGN YOU CAN'T KICK ME OUT BECAUSE IT'S IN THE BOOKS

>>53476172
Nothing in the rules against kicking a player out if they refuse to make a character that fits your game. In fact, it's in the rules that a GM can do that. BB486.

You see, you make good bait, but you're a shit troll. A good troll doesn't have to pretend to be retarded to get (You)s.

>>53475624
>better than they do
YOU HAVE 80% OF YOUR POINTS IN GUNS
80%
How do you explain being the equivalent of god in guns?

Hard counters to rifle-30+ guy:
Homogeneous injury tolerance
Chemistry puzzle
Insubstantiality
Sneak attack
3 guys with guns
Social Encounter
Magic user with homing projectile that can shoot from far beyond the rifle range.

>>53478388
Forgot airstrike with napalm.

>>53476264

Page 172
>the GM might wish to consider limiting the PCs to skill levels somewhere in the 20-25 range.

And of course page 34
>Players should develop the habit of reading (alien head) and (lightning bolt) as "requires GM permission."

What's a good capstone ability for a skill set focused on dual-wielding? Extra Attack is a bit too expensive, I was thinking around 15 points.

>>53482152
80p on guns.

>>53482169
But he said 15 points, not 80.

>>53482152
If you've already got combat reflexes (and you should) consider Danger Sense so you'll have a better chance at getting the first shot off. Or Enhanced Dodge so you can do John Wu dives while shooting.

>>53482255
Whoops, my bad, meant dual-wielding *swords*. This skill set for dual-wielding pistols is already done. It grants Peripheral Vision at level 1 and 360 Vision + Enhanced Tracking at level 2, along with Behind-the-Back Shot and Whirlwind Attack. Everyone has access to Combat Reflexes, but I like the idea of Danger Sense; if I can't think of a more specific appropriate capstone, I'll use that.

>>53482325

Oh, with swords go for Enhanced Parry if you can.

>>53478388
A guy with Guns-16 and Camoflage-10 would wreck him as well.

>>53477184
>How do you explain being the equivalent of god in guns?

A lot of practice.

>>53476484
>Nothing in the rules against kicking a player out if they refuse to make a character that fits your game.

No, but the simple fact of the matter is, if you can't make a game system that relies on the GM kicking out anyone who makes a character that is actually good, then your system is shit.

>>53478388
Never said it was impossible to counter, merely that you can make a standard 100 point adventurer that can easily headshot running opponents at 300 yards, in a """realistic""" system.

>>53483519
I will repeat.
You have 100p to make a character.
You have used 80% of those points in a single skill.

What excuse do you have for being the best human being in the universe at guns that isn't sue bullshit?

>>53483582
Stop replying to the faggot. He already admitted he's an idiot.

>Hurdurr, I can make a character in a system that brakes gaem if I ignore what the GM asks me to build for their campaign.

Fucking retarded.

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Looking to do a game set 200 years after civilization ground to a halt as we ran out of resources like fossil fuels with no really useful alternatives. Its a fairly gritty and deadly game and Im curious what books I might make the best use of for it.

>>53483619
Hey man, he might have a genius backstory that makes sense.

>>53483671
-Basic Set, made up of two books (Characters and Campaigns).
-After the End, a two-book series that helps GMs run post-apoc games of all sorts.

I also recommend reading How to Be a GURPS GM.

>>53483751
sweet thanks anon! Um any recommendation on things like points?

>>53483709
Except every fucking time his only backstory is 'hes rlly good guiz, honest' or 'there's no rules against it lol, gm/gurps suxx'

Stop feeding him.

>>53483769
AtE1 has character templates (essentially GURPS's version of classes) that clock in at 150, which is enough to survive outside of a bunker but not so much that you don't feel very very vulnerable. If you don't want to use those templates, I recommend maybe around 200 points; new players won't make very optimized characters, so higher point totals leaves them some wiggle room.

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Anyone know what set of books to use for a Cowboy Bebop game?

If you've never seen it, it's a sci-fi Space Western with a lot of film noir aspects. Humanity is colonizing rocky planets and moons within the Solar System, and the setting can range anywhere from dusty frontier town on one of Venus's moons, to a bustling Tokyo-esque city on Mars.

The PCs would be bounty hunters, hunting dangerous criminals that the International Solar System Police (ISSP) places bounties on because space is big and the police sucks. They'd have their own space ship to act as sort of a hub, and travel from moon to moon, planet to planet though large Hyperspace gates similar to interstate highways.

Weapons tech is limited to modern ballistic firearms (pistols, submachine guns, etc.), and deadly martial arts. Even spacecraft use heavy machine guns and missiles.

The games would be fraught with criminal syndicates, rogue military technology, space fighter dogfights over crowded cities, intense bar room brawls and negotiations, and generally over-the-top action hijinks with loud jazz music, smoking, and punching.

Any suggestions for books?

>>53483671
>>53483751

After the End is a great resource for this though I'd note that it does kind of go to the more fun sci-fi end rather then grim and dirty. (I do love the rules for mutations)

>200 years after economic collapse following exhaustion of hydrocarbons.

You could go a lot of ways with this. With two centuries past however you'd pretty much just be looking at a stable and mature society. Are you going to have a mix of high tech enclaves and agricultural communities? Places with significant hydroelectric potential could maintain a solid post-hydrocarbon high tech society.

>>53483903

Spaceships and Ultratech anyhow just for the basic technologies to make and run ships. High Tech for weapons, and Martial Arts if you want.

>>53483903
Action. Action Action Action Action. I cannot recommend that series enough.

To supplement Action, get the (what else) Action issue of Pyramid, #3/53. "I've Got a Great Idea" is an awesome article for speeding up the PCs' planning sessions and keeping the game rolling, and theres also "Dogfight Action!" which introduces a streamlined system for aerial dogfighting. If you want a more in-depth approach to ship-to-ship combat, take a look at the Spaceships series, specifically Vol 7; I highly recommend Dogfight Action however.

>>53483903
>If you've never seen it,
Shit dawg, it's required watching for /tg/

Anyone have sample 4th edition characters? I'm having a hard time making a character for a near future game.

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>>53485468

Sure. You have GURPS Character Sheet? It's a free open source program. In it you can load up it has several example characters (the ones in the Basic Set) and more it has a bunch of templates. (Look under Classes) these allow you to quickly build characters and see what they look like.

I'd suggest GCS in any case, it's a very versatile and useful program.

Coss isn't really an example character, but she's someone I have laying around and provides a somewhat unexciting example of a GURPS character.

>>53485537
I would arcc that Coss if you what I mean.

How to handle building houses and facilities and resource harvest in fantasy colonization game?
>PC ordered to their 200 peasants to chop down some trees and then build couple of cheap temporary huts to place everyone, and this was made in one day.
Is there somewhere precalculated buildings?

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>>53486822
>Houseing built in a day.

Eh, no. In a day you could have some lean-to for everyone, but not a proper longhouse, much less huts.

You'd need to clear wood and process it. With hand tools and saw pits you could do it in a few days, and have ground leveled and prepared. By the end of the week you could have basic walls up on a single big house with a tarp roof, and by the end of the month you could have a roof, fireplace and sleeping platforms inside.

Low Tech companion 3 covers a lot of stuff like this.

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How do you make a cold based Innate Attack deal HP damage? None of the options seem to fit well enough for an attack that's just flash freezing, since I don't need cutting, impaling, blunt or toxic damage for a cold based attack. It's not hitting people with stuff made of ice, and I'd prefer the fatigue damage to be secondary even though GURPS only seems to allow cold to deal FP damage.

All I want is to have a cold based HP damage option which may or may not instantly frostbite somebody's face.

>>53487694
Burning with No Incendiary Effect, -10%

>>53487318
The strangest part is that thing where my poor peasants make just $0.44 of labor per hour, so it takes 12.2 16-workhour days for 200 of them to make 30x40x8 ft. [unskilled, cheap] wooden box with 6 in. wall on edge of thick forest.
But if they aren't poor, but average they do this in 2.5 16-workhour days.

>>53488044
You get what you pay for. Stats -2 farmers with little useful construction skills build things a hell of a lot more slowly then status 0 carpenters and masons.

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>>53488413
>With Rope

Rope Use

>With handcuffs

None, unless they fight you

>With magic

Thamatology.

>With a court order

Law.

>>53488651
As they refugees, drifters and ex-slaves who goes to colonize new world, how can they have status and high monthly pays? From whom? They are really not even poor, but dead broke. Doesn't that means they never can build crappy hut, as they can't had any payments for work from their wealth level, when wealthy merchant will build such house solitary 70 days?

>>53488044
>>53488651
>>53489433
Well, y'see, the difference between poor peasants and average peasants is gonna be the availability of tools. Having a good iron axe, adz, and saw available because your wealth was high enough to afford carpentry tools really is gonna speed things up.

>>53483932
A little there's two main developed powers duking it out in the northeast its a smaller focus than most games but what high-tech is around is stuff like exoskeleton frames cobbled together from various parts that barely run and more or less modern guns, the handful of hydro electric dams and wind turbines provide power but, more were destroyed thanks to neglect and a pretty nasty series of wars at the tail end of the United States falling apart. The only other weirdness are certain gmo organisms like a 'coral' that uses bioplastic instead of carbonate Thsts growing all over the Hudson delta and some species of innocuous roses that emit calming and sedative compounds around the ruins of old government buildings as a form,of passive anti protestor defense.

>>53489433
He can't. You can only employ people with the RIGHT SKILLS to work as builders.

You need to find/hire status +0 carpenters. They are able to perform $700 a month of labor with TL 3 skills and tools, or $800 with TL 4.

A Status +2 Merchant might make 5 times that much money, but he can't do 5 times the work because you can't build a house with the Merchant skill.

So that Merchant can't build shit.

The only job your desperate boys can do is going to be fit to provide you with $350 or so of labor a month because it's status -1 laborers. A gang of laborers can, given time, build a simple structure. They can't make a grand palace, but a simple longhouse is well within what you can expect of them, especially if you've got a trained foremen among them to help direct their work.
So break your tired, poor and desperate into groups.

Group 1: No useful skills, but at least HT and ST 10. These guys do about $12 worth of work per day. Most of your free slaves and refugees are going to be this.

Group 2: People with Carpentry, Masonry, ect at SL 12+. These guys do about $24 worth of work per day.

Group 3: People with serious physical flaws, low attributes from being too young or old and with jobs that can't be interrupted to work on the construction gang.

If all 200 if your dudes fall into group one then you can do $2,400 per day.

Let's say that you want a wooden bunkhouse 15' wide by 50' long, with 10' ceilings and pick 2" wood walls as a good balance of durability and labor. Running bunk beds along the walls you could easily fit in 50 people into each bunkhouse.

This gives your building a base cost of $15,525 with zero internal partions. CF is -0.2 for Unskilled Labor, so $12,420 is the final value of these wooden buildings. Wood buildings are 80% materials cost and 20% labor cost, so the labor cost is $2,484.

So your crews will need to prepare $9,936 worth of wood, taken from the local forest..

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>>53490027
>Preparing wood.

If you put 160 of the crew on cutting trees, dragging them to a saw pit and ripping them you can keep the other 40 busy building cabins. Each cabin takes the whole crew just a touch over 5 days to build. (5.175) and you will need about 21 days to build enough for everyone. The simple wooden racks to sleep in could add another two days.

Just under a month and you've got everyone out from under the weather in solid wood. Not pretty, but functional. Thatch would be faster, but much more fragile.

>>53490128
With 4 of them you could use the longhouses to form a square, with no windows on the outer wall and ladders up to the roof where you can fire from. This kind of rough fortress was pretty common in the new world, among explorers and settlers.

Can I have a quick rundown on GURPS? How easy/hard is it to build a book for a setting without the rules fucking it over? Are there any big balance issues regarding things like melee and magic, magic and guns, etc? How well does it handle vehicles and big fucking monsters?

>>53491115
>How easy/hard is it to build a book for a setting without the rules fucking it over
Very easy, because you choose what rules to use. The rules themselves are also very open and easy to tinker with, if they don't suit your needs, but I find most to be exactly what I need.

>Are there any big balance issues regarding things like melee and magic, magic and guns, etc?
Depends on the magic system you're using, but in general, things play out like they would in real life. People with guns on featureless planes/white voids are likely to win, people who can get close can have a good chance against guns, and you can change the rules to suit your needs for either.

>How well does it handle vehicles and big fucking monsters?
Ehhhh... I haven't used either with it. I have no idea for vehicles because I have no interest in them, and the only "big fucking monsters" I've wanted to do are BFM vs. BFM, which works well when you adjust back down to human levels with the Decade/Century scales.

>>53489433
Wealth level, status, and jobs aren't quite so linked like that. I think the Basic Set says something to the effect to "even though Comfortable has a highly monthly pay modifier than Struggling, employers can't get away with paying poor employees less for the same job." Instead, base rates off of the theoretical "average" scenario.

For example, a master carpenter (relevant skills at 18+) would be a bigwig--he heads a guild, important people request his services by name, etc.-- and probably Status 1 (which, going by the table on p. B517, means Comfortable Wealth and x2 monthly pay). If that master carpenter was on the wrong side of a civil war and was shipped off with other malcontents to some godforsaken unknown land, he would probably lose whatever Status or Wealth he had. However, when it comes to determining how fast he can build things (like a shelter), he would still use his old monthly pay--he may be a broke nobody at the moment, but skills are skills his current situation is outlier. Now, he would still take penalties for lack of proper tools and materials, strange environment, etc. but I argue his base rate remains the same.

>>53491214
Adding to this:

This biggest thing when trying to balance different approaches to combat is that the GM needs to make sure everyone is on the same page. It is very much possible to end up with D&D 3.PF-levels of "balance" by having warriors operate under gritty realism rules while mages can do whatever they want because lolmagic. If you want both to remain viable, you need to rein in magic users, make warriors cinematic, or both. Similarly, don't use gritty realistic rules if you want firearms and melee to be on the same playing field.

Right now, I'm running an over-the-top cinematic "Wild West Samurai" game where blade and bullet are both viable (as are fists for that matter). To do this, I had bullet parrying be a thing anyone could do, albeit at -2 unless they had Trained By a Master or Weapon Master. I also gave the guns anemic damage (about on par with hand-held weapons), and since they were wild-west-era firearms, they have limited Shots and RoF. Lastly, while gun dojos teach cool shit, kenjutsu dojos teach really impressive abilities to their students which give them that final edge on gunslingers.

However, I'm also planning out a gritty cyberpunk game which goes in the opposite direction in terms of realism and gun/melee balance. The system can go a lot of ways, so it falls to you to make the pieces fit together nicely. How to Be a GURPS GM can help with this a lot.

Any crossposters from /k/ sign up for this?

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=149953

>>53491214
>>53492476
What's the best magic system to use? I've been trying to figure out exactly how I want my magic to work in this setting I'm building but I'm having a bit of difficulty, maybe reading about how it works in some of the books could help with ideas.

I'm thinking I wanted to have two kinds of magic, and guns in the setting. Magic would be more widespread while guns would be more rare either, old world relics ranging from TL 8 to early TL 11 or crude muzzleloaders and single shots at the native TL 4-5/7 (on the borderline between TL 4 and TL 5 natively, though they understand and know how to use things up to TL 7 due to living in a world scattered with relics of previous civilizations, many specific characters and some settlements will be permitted to have a TL of 5/7, 6/7 or even 7/8 in rare circumstances and individual skills may be allowed to be learned at higher than native tech levels as well)

I want there to be two types of magic, one is light and generalist, typically helpful spells, status effects, utilities or nonlethal attacks, and it more widly known, consuming a fairy dust type resource to cast (which is really old world nanobots that users activate with their "magic") and then darker more seriousl Occultism magic, which relies on the power of the Eldritch One that was awoken on the planet and has more dangerous effects and side effect. Occultism would be generally more powerful than normal Dustplay.

Unlike either school of magic, guns of course have the advantage of needing only a few hours of instruction and practice to use effectively instead of years and/or a pact with the One. Guns typically tend to not be too widespread. I'm considering upping the recoil level and strength requirments for most guns though considering that people in this setting are about 25% smaller than the humans old world tech was designed for, with the exception of one race which range from human sized to slightly larger.

>>53493221
I didn't know, but this is pretty cool. Really looking forward to it.

>>53493394
Speaking of which, how exactly does size modifier and equipment size work out in gameplay? Would it be better to make my main races be size modifier zero and humans and the one larger race SM 1 or leave those 0 and make the main races SM -1?

>>53493394
>What's the best magic system to use?
GURPS Magic and GURPS Thaumatology combined give you like a dozen different ones. In addition to that there's Powers as Advantages, a worked example of which is Thaumatology - Sorcery; Ritual Path Magic, which is very flexible and requires a lot of GM oversight and practice; Psionic Powers, which is a skill-based powers/abilities approach; Divine Favor, which I don't know anything about; Probably a few more that I'm forgetting. GURPS has a lot of magic systems, and it's easy enough to make your own with Basic Set and Powers, but not a great idea for a beginner.

It sounds to me like Sorcery could work if you replace Costs FP with Trigger (fairy dust), and the Eldritch One would be Sorcery with the Pact limitation. You could also just go for powers as advantages and skip Sorcery entirely by slapping Trigger and Pact on whatever advantages you want for magic.

>>53493492
I suggest having the main races be SM-1, and adjusting their ST scores realistically. You can get a rough idea for appropriate ST by multiplying yards in height by 5, so something one yard in height has a baseline of 5, while humans would have 10 (approximatly). Guns larger than pistols would require investment in ST to use unpenalized, most likely, or have to be used from bipods, which really limits mobility.

>>53493492

Most equipment is scaled depending on size modifier. See High Tech p.10.

Don't touch SM, because SM is a scale used to measure everything from cars to planets as well.

>>53489748
Mind you by this point in time the sea level has risen forty meters. which leaves a lot of the region this will be set in vastly different Montreal is more or less gone as is the entirety of new jeresy and delaware.

>>53493552
How many points would one have to invest into magic to be a decent spellcaster with a few abilities they could put to use?

Also my logic for making the larger race be SM +1 would be the discount to ST larger creatures get included with an increased lifting strength advantage and a few other bonuses for the race. But I suppose that would work, I just don't want the PCs to be too weak.

>>53493722
>How many points would one have to invest into magic to be a decent spellcaster with a few abilities they could put to use?
Depends entirely on what they want to do. Afflicting people buffs usually costs a lot with Affliction, but with Ritual Path Magic it's fairly cheap, for instance, but fireballs are cheaper as Innate Attack (Burning), rather than RPM fireballs.

If you want to readjust the scale from human to smaller creatures, you can, just be aware that SM is used to measure everything, not just creatures, so everything's going to be adjusted.

PCs being weak depends on your definition of weak. Of course smaller creatures will be weaker physically than larger ones without magical assisstance, but that doesn't necessarily mean they'll be unable to hurt others. A knife to the gut is a knife to the gut. It's going to suck.

>>53493856
I was thinking mostly in terms of lifting strength and such, being able to carry gear, which I can adjust the weight of common items to fit of course. I'm not intended (the early levels at least) to be that lethal but still killing power in a setting where they would be using mostly muscle powered weapons until guns are more attainable is a concern.

>>53494078
They'll be capable of killing creatures of their own size, most likely. I imagine Committed/All-out Attacks of the Strong variety and attacking Vitals/Neck/Skull/Chinks/Eyes will be common against stronger/larger opponents, as will overwhelming force. They will have a lower BL, but I think that's part of the fun of playing smaller races. And, as you said, you can adjust weights if necessary.

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I made a character for a near future game I'm invited to, 150 points. It's my first GURPS character, he's a face man and karate expert.

>>53467035
>Hello everyone, and welcome to GURPS Celtic Myth! The setting is TL 2...

>>53496278
Your DX and IQ are too high (unless that's how you want your character to be, of course). Lower then both by one or two and put those points into skills (don't raise Karate), then buy Combat Reflexes, and put the rest of your points back into skills, or get a Talent or two that raises your skills. For example, Fast-Talk/Gambling/Streetwise could work together as a street gambler talent. Throw on Games for knowing how to play can work for the "card/pool shark" angle. I also suggest HT 11~12, since having above-average HT is good to help against death and resist stuff like knockdown.

>>53496457
>don't raise Karate
Don't raise it to an odd level* Melee combat skills are generally best when bought in even levels, because odd levels don't increase defenses.

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>>53496278
I see a large disparity of points spent on basic DX and IQ that might be better distributed in general skills and specializing core combat skills.

Very streamlined pc tho; I can see he's mostly a physical guy who relies a bit too much on being pretty to get by.

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>>53496842
>>53496578
>>53496457

Added a "talent", which I didn't know was a thing.

Brought down DX and IQ and raised HT by 1.

Added Games (Cards) and Disarming, and then buffed the rest of the skills.

I also gave myself Compulsive Gambler to fit better, and Flexibility for that hilarious Erotic Art boost, and because I want to escape cuffs.

He's a very shooty, punchy, and talky character.

>>53496151
>as you said, you can adjust weights if necessary.
Plus their planet only has a gravity of 0.9 Gs so Ill be reducing the weight of most things anyway

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>>53497128
>Flexibility for that hilarious Erotic Art boost, and because I want to escape cuffs
Don't forget erotic art!

In MA's version of the Choke Hold, does applying a blood choke also follow the idea of "if any damage gets through, the target loses 1 FP per turn?"

Also, when inflicted FP damage does DR protect against it?

For MA's version of Choke Hold, does a blood choke follow the idea of "If any damage gets through, the target loses 1 FP per turn?"

Also does DR protect against FP damage in the case of a blood choke?

>>53488044
>Poor peasants are $0.44 per hour.

Status -1 laborers should get about $1.82 an hour working a 24 day work month (4 weeks of 8 hour days with 1 rest day per week).

Status -2 makes less (about half) but that's only for matchstick girls, people handing out leaflets, rag-pickers and other truly, utterly destitute jobs.

Why is GURPS so fucking slow?

Combat takes fucking forever, and god forbid if you want to do anything except shoot at eachother. Unarmed fighting rules make me want to blow my fucking brains out.

>>53499352
Because you don't know the rules that well, or are trying to use too many rules.

>>53499352
What's giving you problems, specifically?

>>53499352
The fuck are you on about? Combat takes a quarter as long as D&D combat does. You just have to learn the rules.

>>53499526
It's frustrating, at least compared to the system I'm coming from (Dnd 5e).

Like, say I want to kick the gun out of someone's hands.

With GURPs I have to make an attack roll. Then they make a defense roll. Then I roll my weapon skill. Then they roll THEIR weapon skill. Then I can only disarm them if I hit the attack and defeated them in the contest. All while applying -2 or +2 modifiers based on weapon types and distance and etc. etc.

With 5e, I have to make an attack roll, and they have to roll either Athletics/Acrobatics.

It's just frustrating.

>>53499725
5e doesn't have the concept of a defense roll, or a contest, so it's faster only in situations like that.

>>53498522
could someone answer this?

>>53464377
Gonna run a low fantasy game inspired by what we love about ASoIaF(The books in all their literary glory, not the shit that the HBO show became), and it's going to start slow with Dunk&Egg style characters and slowly suck them into all the increasingly grimdark shit that develops.

They are all going to be playing pretty young characters, barely old enaugh to be knighted, and at least one of them is going to be a sub 13 squire when everything starts.

How would you do such a young character? Point wise? Any special adv./disadv. ? Changed baseline stats? And since the campaign is going to be long in in game time, how would I do the progression of that char justice, or should I not bother and accept that an older character is just going to be more capable?

>>53500427
The chapter on character creation in Basic Set mentions children. They might have a social stigma.

Build them like a 16+ character, and reduce their stats according to what the Basic Set says.

>>53499725
1. Go forbid you need to roll twice in one turn

2. All the modifiers are determined by your GM, not you. Your purpose is to Chuck the dice; they mince over the numbers.

3. Try doing what you described in dnd with less effort

>>53499725
Yeah, but you also have to be a battlemaster or burn a feat to use a maneuver like disarm.

At least in GURPS you can attempt it without being locked into a rigid class structure.

>>53501402
Actually Disarm is in the DMG and can be attempted by anyone.

The Battlemaster maneuver Disarm is still stronger, because it deals damage and has a higher save.

>>53500427
Kids should generally have Social Stigma (Minor), are likely to have little Wealth because they don't have jobs and may have quite powerful allies in the form of parents that would die to protect them.

>>53500494

This too.

Note that if you are going to have them stop being children pretty quickly you can always just have the player's build the "adult version" and for chapters of the story where they are kids reduce their statistics appropriately.

>>53499725
So a normal attack + a quick contest? The DM handles the modifiers, you just roll. A quick contest can be done in a literal second.

>>53499725
Well, it's unfortunate that you feel that way. GURPS is more granular than D&D, so there's more information going on. Defense rolls add a lot to combat, in my opinion, and make it more interactive and exciting than static AC. I do agree that disarming can have a lot of fiddly modifiers, but making four total rolls over two shouldn't be a significant impact on speed of play, and the modifiers are easy enough to remember after reading them once or twice. Also, distance (range) penalties doesn't apply for melee weapons, so if you both had Reach 3 weapons, you could try to disarm as far away six yards, with no penalty. If you wanted to get rid of the -2/+2 split, consider changing the wording of disarming to the following:

>You are at -7 to hit a reach “C” melee weapon (e.g., a knife) or a pistol; -6 to hit a melee weapon with reach 1 (broadsword, mace, etc.) or a medium-sized firearm (e.g., a carbine or sawed-off shotgun); and -5 to hit a melee weapon with reach 2+ (spear, greatsword, polearm, etc.) or a rifle. Fencing weapons get +2 to strikes to disarm.

I think normalizing the +/- to + will help you remember, and frontloading the non-fencing weapon penalty. You don't need to worry about the Jitte/Sai bonus if you aren't using one, so the only relevant +2 is two-handed weapons, which aren't necessarily common. So, going back over the steps:

>You roll to attack, at -7 to -5, with a +2 if you're using a fencing weapon.
>They roll dodge or parry with the weapon you're attacking.
>If you succeed and they fail, now roll a Quick Contest, and they get +2 if they're two-handed.

Not really much you can do about rolling more times, though. I'm pretty sure using the same roll for both the attack/defense for the quick contest as well would have undesireable outcomes.

Sup GURPSfriends

I've got 250 points to spare and engineer to build. Architect/constructor, to be precise, for a TL9 game. Non-combatant, pure engineering.
Suggestions? Ideas?

>>53509323
That's a lot of points. For an engineer and builder a lot of what you can do will be what you know (Mechanic, Engineering, Architect skills) and a lot will be what you have. Lots of Wealth, maybe even to the Millionaire level, and a group of Allies to represent your construction crew can allow you to build things that would be nearly impossible for you to build on your own no matter how skilled.

Grab some social too. Reputation (Brilliant Engineer) and (Inventor) can get you a lot of doors open. Security Clearance can let you be privy to top secret projects.

>>53509323
Like >>53509378 says, grab some wealth, status, and allies so you have your own firm going, you'll have so many more options when it comes to getting shit done.

And a few points in Explosives (Demolitions) never hurt. Everyone needs a hobby.

>>53508251
>Not really much you can do about rolling more times, though. I'm pretty sure using the same roll for both the attack/defense for the quick contest as well would have undesireable outcomes.

There sort of is. When I know I'm going to be rolling more than one set of dice I just roll them all at once. Each set is a different color and the colors are always used for the same thing (reds are attack rolls, blues are defenses, greens are techniques, etc). It's not for everyone but I played shadow run for a long time so throwing 10-12 dice is a natural as throwing three.

>>53509378
>>53509386
Thing is, I don't need wealth nor status for this. I need raw skills, advs and stats.
And the budget is intentionally bloated, but it must be spent on engineering/construction things, period.

>>53509632
A construction company/engineering firm doesn't count?

Because 250 points is really plenty to just buy every skill and advantage you need. I guess look into Less Sleep or Doesn't Sleep so you can use more of your day.

>>53509674
I know it's a lot, but it's supposed to be the biggest construction engineer since the invention of sliced bread for a cinematic game.
Cinematic game with non-combatant. So this is the main reason why I'm here, asking the hell I'm suppose to do with 250.

>>53509879
IQ 16
Gadgeteer (Quick)
Talents
Skills

>>53509879
Okay, you'll want to put at least 80 points into your stats to pump DX and IQ, probably make a custom Engineering talent, and for sure you'll want to put points into Heavy Wheeled and Tracked vehicles so you can use construction equipment.

At TL9, will you be using exoskeletons to build with, or modify? Something to look into. You'll definitely want Explosives (Demolition) because there's nothing so nifty for doing civil engineering in a hurry when you need a building gone or the landscape rearranged. Don't Sleep if you can get it, several levels of Less Sleep if you can't. Eidetic Memory for sure. Lightning Calculator will be good if you're doing stuff on the fly.

What KIND of Engineer are you? Why don't you share what you've already got? You'll get better feedback with a starting point than asking to be spoonfed.

>>53509879
>Biggest

Giantism
ST 18
HT 13
SM+1 Fine wrench.

>>53509959
I'm supposed to deliver a TL9 Boer civic engineer, specialising in big projects in impoverished areas with shit infrastructure and barely any materials. A person that rolls into a village, talks with locals for a week, draws plans for another, then consult the final result with locals, then goes back to authorities and says "Here is this big-ass settlement project you wanted from be for 1k bucks per family housing unit"
Basically, a badass version of Alejandro Aravena (not that the guy is not badass, but still), which also meeans he can and should get his hands dirty when needed to build something from a scratch.

But since it's cinematic game, I have almost absurd amount of points to spent in comparison with ideas where I want to put them. I've already even picked stuff like Geology and all kind of machine operating skills and advs. And I don't like the concept of picking some really high IQ, since that means a fuckload of unrelated skills will skyrocket. I want a civic engineer architect, not a polymath. I think a custom talent will work here instead.

>>53510364
You know, writing it down made me realise I didn't pick any stuff useful for negotiating deals and basic foreman effort...
... but that's barely 15 points more to spend.

I'm looking to run a game with a modern setting with the players being mundane operators tasked with killing high profile paranormal operators.
I've heard that GURPS can be good for modern tactical operatan, with the Tactical Shooting and High Tech. Does anyone have the PDFs for those?

>>53510548
Check the OP.

>>53510548
Open the PDF in OP's post. There is link to a massive archive

>>53510773
>>53510557
thank you both, I'm new to this general

>>53510791
No problem. Most people miss that PDF, thinking it's just a picture.

>>53496406
Okay! In that case all of my points go into Swords. Sure this sounds useless but with a 30 in swords my Parry is now 18. Good luck hitting me without disarming me first, faggot.

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>>53510364
>>53510383
Try this.
The Talent is blank, so you need to add skills under it. So is the Area Knowledge skill.
And there are still 24 points to spare

>>53510548
GURPS is still preddy gub for those kinds of games even if you don't go all out. If that's what your group wants, go for it! Heck, see if you can get into the playtest group for the new Tactical Shooting supplement. At the same time, though, I recommend taking a "less is more" approach. Consider one of Action or Monster Hunters; the former specializes in faster, more cinematic play (not totally unrealistic in tone, but movie-realism like Diehard) and the later is basically WoD:Hunters and comes with a much higher point value by default, and you can limit the template choices to Commando (gunner), Sage (lore whore), Sleuth (investigator), Techie (electronics, computers, etc.), and Warrior (madman with a sword).

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>>53501402
>>53501402
>At least in GURPS you can attempt it without being locked into a rigid class structure.

I more and more am liking this GURPS of yours. Please to tell more.

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How should one replicate pic related's hammer-holding harness in GURPS? As an advantage, piece or equipment, anything goes.

>>53516821
By the physical example alone it seems to be an equipment assisted harness/armor. I'd imagine it functions much like power armor from the basic set, granting bonus ST while worn. Very simple "equipment grants bonus". From that you could use the limitations guidelines to make a ST bonus with Gadget limitation, if you feel the character needs to buy/invest in this with points rather than just GURP$

bumpo

Alright boys, redpill me on the magic system.

Currently, I'm running a 50/- 25 point fantasy campaign for newbies. I never really minded the default magic system, but I'm having trouble with it because it's too expensive for the characters.

Any suggestions on what would be a better system? Something relatively inexpensive, flexible, and scalable would be iddal

>>53522669

With your low level fantasy game you'd best brace yourself for most magic being too expensive for them. 50/-25 is quite on the low end.

Sorcery might be what you are looking for. It's likely that your player characters could only afford 1 or 2 spells, and not at great level, but in a low power game one or two spells can be very useful.

You could go a step under Sorcery to just having magic be purely Advantages.

Let's say a player wants to be a fire mage.

You give them Fire Blast (Innate Attack: 2D burn (Costs Fatigue: 1 -5%, Cone +50%) [15] and a 1 point Perk Firelight (Can conjure a candle flame in the hand (1pt burning, cast light 5', Magic)

So for 16 points this person is legitimately a spell-caster. Yes, he only has two spells, but it's enough in a low power game for fire magic to be what people identify him by.

>>53522669
Give campaign advantages/disadvantages then. Just some magical abilities that everyone has which doesn't count toward their point value.

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>>53522669
Ritual Path Magic. Non-Adepts need only a small investment in a few Paths and Thaumaatology to get started and charms are a cool and inherently limited power.

Non-Adepts need a lot of time to prepare before they can throw around magic but that's a feature not a bug.

>>53522669
In a low point campaign - >>53523013
has a sound idea. make it a advantage that is bought.

the other option is make it some sort of "non-system" where magic is something that even the PCs do not understand. Works well if you make magic is evil.

>>53523013
>>53523062
>>53523115
Think I'll do advantage/sorcery, it fits the setting well.

I'm considering mixing sorcery with the standard magic system to represent the difference between learned and innate magic, but I've hears that having more than one magic system in a campaign leads to madness. Thoughts?

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>>53524068
Have rules, in setting, as for why things work differently for different folks

My players know they can buy up sorcerous powers, and they also know if you delve into ~dark powers~ you can get some mondo cool shit going. But they have also learned that way likes madness, tentacles, and eventual horrible death.

>>53524068
Two magic systems isn't too bad, especially if they are mechanically distinct. Basic Magic is something you can add in on a spell-by-spell basis to control carefully how powerful it gets.

Note that Basic Magic spells are going to be weaker, generally, then Sorcery, especially at low levels, and cost considerably more FP.

>>53525356
At the same time, though, some Magic spells are going to have things that Sorcery simply cannot do (or at least do as easily). Protection from Fire, (RAW) Enlarge, and (RAW) No-Smell come to mind.

I wouldn't necessarily take the Sorcery=Raw/Innate and Magic=Skilled/Learned route either. Considering where and how they differ, I feel that Magic makes a lot of sense as a lost art people discover piece by piece; people simply do not understand the fundamentals of Magic the same way they understand the fundamentals of Sorcery, and instead, specific practical applications of magic are uncovered via ancient scrolls, carvings, etc. Since they lack the fundamentals, they can't improvise with Magic, but they can learn specific spells that are unexplainable in Sorcery's terms.
>tl;dr Sorcery is Engineering with a functioning workshop, Magic is scavenged TL12^ tech you've sort of figured out how to operate.

>>53526060
>tl;dr Sorcery is Engineering with a functioning workshop, Magic is scavenged TL12^ tech you've sort of figured out how to operate
That works even better, because my setting has le ancient magical empire that disappeared centuries ago in it.

Any recommendations for specific spells that wpuld be wodely known?

>>53526831
It's really up to you and how you want your setting to be shaped. For example, maybe no one has discovered any teleportation spells yet; considering the cost and reliability issues of Warp (which Sorcerers would have access to), that means transportation is mostly stuck at the appropriate TL. If it has been discovered, whoever discovered it might keep it for himself. Alternatively, it might be super wide-spread, with personal teleportation being a staple of the setting or even tied to the kingdom's infrastructure with teleportation circles allowing fast travel between major cities.

With that out of the way, I guess I have a few things I would consider important enough to warrant special mention.
1) There doesn't have to be any rhyme or reason to what spells are known. They're all uncovered and pieced together individually, not taught by a professor in Magic 1301 to 5304. Meteor Storm might exist while Conjure Flame does not.
2) Conjuration spells tend to fuck with the social order a lot. For example, if there is a widely known spell that makes food, even tasteless gruel, that means the most major resource is no longer solely tied to land ownership, which puts the entire feudal system in a tizzy.
3) If the world has high enough mana that Magery is not required to cast spells, recognize which spells are going to see use by common folk. The Food, Plant, and Animal colleges will likely see more wide application than Fire or Necromancy, for example.
4) Powerful spells are probably going to be kept under wraps by force. Ancient cabals will conspire to make sure the spells of food creation, resurrection, longevity, etc. will only be available to those they deem worthy. This doesn't need to be an evil cabal; good wizards would go to extreme lengths to ensure knowledge of Lichdom remains lost to the masses. This will not only affect your world, it's also a built-in adventure hook!

>>53509441
I like it

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>>53528800
Good ideas.

Fun concepts to play with could be..

Broken Chains. Maybe the text of some spells is known but some of the prerequisites are lost. Thamo-archaeologist might try to find enough fragments of a spell to rebuild it.

For example, maybe Fireball is known, carved in a magical Rosetta stone that holds many of the commonly known spells.

But Shape Fire is lost, the part of stone it was on broken badly. Because Fireball requires Ignite Fire, Create Fire and Shape Fire to cast nobody can use the Fireball or Explosive Fireball spells.

Maybe Mind Control spells, all of them, are hidden away in order to try and keep people from being able to put together the prerequisites for forbidden and terrifying mind-control powers. You could have a secret society that makes every effort to destroy copies of such spells.

>>53493492
>>53493552
For ST: take cbrt(weight in lbs)*2 to figure out the average racial strength.
This actually works for humans (remember that the "average" human is a super position of male and female)

>>53529109
GURPS assumes the average human weighs 130 pounds?

>>53529076
There's the Charm perk if you want to include it. It's one point and acts as all the spell prerequisites for a specific magic spell. Since it only replaces spells and not other prerequisites, it could work to represent imperfect knowledge of requisite spells: they can't cast Shape Fire, but they have figured out enough of it to make a Fireball.

>>53529213
I'd forgotten about that, it's a cool idea. Normally I only see it used with characters that don't want to take or can't take a prerequisite, for example if it's a school of magic your magery doesn't cover.

How do you figure out what location gets hit with burst fire?

>>53531857
Roll randomly for each hit.

so bow damage is based off of the strength number of the bow, i.e. the number listed under ST? range is likewise determined by this number?
so for the composite bow you ignore your strength (provided you're strong enough to use it) and use the strength in the ST column?

finally, is there a way to reduce the number of ready actions required to shoot a bow, or even to reduce reload times on antique firearms like cap and ball revolvers?

>>53532029
Yes, you use bow/crossbow strength for everything.

>reduce the number of ready actions required to shoot a bow
Fast Draw allows you to ready arrow as free action.
Heroic Archer from Martial Arts provides many bonuses, including free Acc bonus without actually aiming.
Quick-Shooting Bows from MA119 allows to shoot even faster if you are cool enough.

>reduce reload times on antique firearms like cap and ball revolvers
Low-Tech has rules for Fast Draw (Ammo) in such cases, plus paper cartridges.
Either Tactical Shooting or Gun Fu (probably both) have Quick Reload perk or something, that drastically reduces reloading time.

Central Axis Relock
Hard technique
Defaults: Guns (Pistol)-2
Prerequisite: Guns (Pistol); cannot exceed prerequisite skill.
This technique allows you to shoot of CAR stance without loosing combat efficiency. You also look tacticool and receive +1 reaction bonus from children and teenagers.

Gross Motor Skills Reload
Hard Technique
Defaults: Fast Draw (Ammo).
Prerequisite: Fast Draw (Ammo); cannot exceed Fast Draw (Ammo)+6.
This technique lets you to buy off penalties for having Ham-Fisted when reloading your weapon, however the effective skill level should never exceed unmodified Fast Draw (Ammo). On the negative side, successful roll reduces reloading time only by half as much (but always by at least 1 second).

Are we tech 9?

>>53534509

We're schizotech. We have elements of TL8 and TL9 in the western first world countries.

>>53534509
No Robot cars. So no.

How much do you edit or condense the basic set skill lists to suit your taste? Not including obvious cases like higher TL skills (computer programming) not being available in lower TL settings. Does anyone play with all setting and TL appropriate skills available?

>>53534509

We're like tech 8.5ish We're a little behind on cyborg shit, but we're closing in on metamaterials and military technologies like lasers and railguns.

>>53534626
Generally I let the players run a idea past me then give a thumbs up or down. The big rule in GURPS is to have built the PC prior to the session.

>>53534700
I'm talking more in terms of subjective redundancy and complexity level. I understand the intent of the system as a toolbox but I'm still learning the system with a view to GM'ing it for other first time players. Many skills have arguably significant overlap of very are niche and as written the system seems to have a strong simulationist feel. So I'm just trying to get a sense of how others view this aspect.

>>53534810
I've taken a real shine to using Wildcard skills for new groups. Really cuts down on confusion, bookkeeping, and incidents of people missing a skill key to their character concept.

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>>53537337

>>53529156
Yes

>>53528800
>>53529076
>>53529213
>>53529350
Thank you guys, you've just helped flesh out my setting a ton!
Wht book is the charm perk from?

What's better Gurps or Savage Worlds?
I'm looking to do a horror themed campaign for halloween and want to switch my group to a universal roleplay system.

>>53537619
I prefer gurps - partly due to that I know it much better then savage worlds.

The real question is...how abstract do you like it?

>>53537602
It was probably introduced earlier, but snag Power-Up: Perks; it's a compilation of every perk released when it was published (plus I think some new ones). Actually, the entire Power-Ups series is awesome.

>>53537619
Each have their own strengths. SW is more abstract, so in my opinion it's better for games where you want the mechanics to get the fuck out of the way. That being said, SW is also very pulpy and cinematic, so you may have your work cut out for you in terms of toning down the competency and durability of the heroes; they're meant to be two-fisted men of action taking down Nazis on the moon or whatever.

GURPS is much more down-to-earth and detailed, which helps with either visceral horror or getting the danger and lethality across to the players (if the PCs are D&D heroes, for example, they don't give a shit about a maniac with a knife because that's 1d4+4 vs their 60 HP; the lethality of GURPS can remove that pitfall). You are also free to ignore or simplify mechanics when they interfere with the tone, letting you get very nitty-gritty or fast-paced as the situation calls for it.

Regardless of if you go with SW or GURPS, pick up GURPS: Horror for its hefty amount of systemless advice.

Also, last minute plug for DREAD. It's certainly not a universal system, but it's the best at what it does (i.e. rules-light suspense/horror).

>>53537354
Instead of giving it a ghostly body, I'd give it either Telekinesis (Animation Only; 1/10 range) or Possession.

How many points would you need to create guts with berserker armor?

>>53540350
I'd eyeball him at around 400; he's pretty fucking legendary. Two-Handed Sword is in the mid-20s, as is ST (HP is probably higher, likely in the 30s). 11-12 DX and IQ, probably 14 HT. Lots of points spread among a *lot* of skills.

IIRC, the berserker armor's special quality amounts to Supernatural Durability with Costs HP, Always On (basically auto-activates), and obviously the relevant gadget limitations.

>>53540846
I don't know if the armor cost HP so much as it makes it impossible for the wearer to know he's hurt. Supernatural durability feels right for the armor's ability to pull dislocated joints back into place, suppress pain and hold together broken bones.

It also comes with mental disadvantages however, and when a person gives into the Berserk that it causes it transforms to reflect their fears and madness. (In the case of Guts the helmet can fucking BITE PEOPLE).

>>53541568
Doesn't it reinforce Gut's body by filling it full of needles? It makes him more durable during the fight, but after it, he's in worse shape than before.

And wow, I have no idea how I managed to forget about the suit's transformation effect. FUG.

>>53539708
See, I think k that's a cop out; the image shows he's got a tangible yet empheral ghostly body. Why would you shift that to possession? He's just occupying a suit of armor, not making it animate through any other elaborate means

>>53541695
The needles stabilize injured areas and hold wounds closed. They pretty much perform invasive surgery

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Has anyone been autistic enough to try making HTML/EPUB versions of GURPS PDFs? Pic related.

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>>53544044

>>53543440
I'm calling bull. Blue glowy bullshit does not a tangible body make; it's just as likely is genetic magic glow, the kind also seen with possession and animation. Also if the sword were armorless, it'd just be some naked ghost/floating sword; a sword that's just a sword without a tangible body to possess is infinitely cooler.

It's fine either way, but you're a bit of a cunt to call it a 'copout' and get pissy about it.

>>53544535
I refute and counter!
Look at the posture! The noble regard! The weapon held down but ready. I'm sure if the face we're visible you'd be stared down by a reverent countenance!

Also
Takes a cunt to know a cunt

>>53544941
>Dude called me a cunt for getting pissy over something inconsequential, so I better double down and prove him wrong!

>>53544044
>>53544296
Why would they?

>>53547879
Because HTML is better than PDF, of course.

You don't really own anything that you can't edit.

>>53550980
How much progress you got done with it?

>>53464377
>GURPS
kek, /tg/ has truly the worst taste

>>53551849
Not much more than the screenshot shows.

>>53550980
It would be nice to add errata, but at this point I already have the important shit memorized and notes everywhere else.

>>53551872
good post

>>53514796
Honestly mate, it's just a matter of learning any of the situational rules you'll likely run into with your character, and copying them into a cheat sheet if need be. Case in point, I got to play in a Dungeon Fantasy game, and decided to play a Swashbuckler. I swapped out the fencing weapon for a broadsword, and made a cheat sheet for things like Acrobatics dodges and feints, multiple parries, disarms, etc. The GM had us attacked by lizardmen, and had three gang up on me. Because I knew the rules about parrying unarmed attacks, I cut off the clawed hands of all three, then followed up with a rapid strike to take out two and an Extra Attack (one weapon, multi-strike) to gut the third. My character murdered more enemies than the Wizard who didn't bother learning the (simple, really) rules for pumping up fireballs.

>>53553222
I thought if you have claws or strikers you didn't have the parrying weapons while unarmed penalties? Or is that only for strikers and not claws?

>>53553862
I looked it up myself and Strikers specifically mention working like weapons when parrying while Claws do not.

However I also noticed that by default Strikers only have Reach "C", that Reach scales with your natural SM still right?

>>53554942
I don't know if it does explicitly, but I would assume so because it doesn't make sense otherwise.

Ultra-Tech talks about lighter cuts of flexible armor easily going under other clothing. Considering we're talking about clothing no thicker than a t-shirt or even underwear, should DX penalties for layering armor still apply?

>>53555422
DX penalties for layering apply when the layers are not flexible

>>53557211
You can only layer flexible in the first place bruh. You can put hard armor on top, but the underlayer, barring a specific example in LT, must be flexible.

>>53558222
What if u wanna put multiple layers of flexi on top of each other? Say, 3 deep? What then?!

>>53559754
Extreme heat/cold fucks your FP up.

>>53559769
What?
We're asking about DX penalties and layered armor
When the fuck did environment enter the equation?

>>53559754
Two additional layers equals -2 to DX; pretty sure this is covered in the Basic Set. Why are you so worked up that you can't type straight?

>>53560240
Basic Set rule is on page 286.

>You can freely combine multiple pieces of armor that don't cover the same hit location, but you can only layer armor if the inner layer is both flexible and concealable,. Add the DR of both layers. Wearing an extra armor anywhere but on the head gives -1 to DX and DX-based skills.

Not the best writing. Implicitly this gives you a max of two layers, but it seems like if it did allow more layers it would not increase the penalty.

Low Tech page 103 gives more complete rules, including dropping the need for inner layers to be concealable.

You take -1 for two layers and -2 for three, with more then that being noted as 'rare'. You also only take a penalty for layered armor on a location if the coverage is higher then 50%. You can freely layer, for example, a coif that extends down to cover the shoulders (arms on 1 in 6) and upper chest (torso on 3 in 6) along with the neck and skull would not provide a penalty if layered with a long sleeved hauberk that covered the arms and torso.

I'm trying to hash out a character for a Worm-inspired supers game, with powers based in the idea of hammerspace and offscreen teleportation. Mover/Breaker, possibly with a tinge of Stranger tied in there, for those who've actually read. The one thing I'm not sure on is the Accessibility modifier for their powers; they can't work under direct visible observation. If they're using Snatcher to get a tool, it has to come from behind their back, in a coat, et cetera, where no outside observer has line of sight, they can only Warp when they're not being directly looked at, et cetera. Cameras don't count, whether with a regular viewer or tied into a robot/etc.

Accessibility (-30%), "Only while unobserved visually" is what I'm rolling with right now, but is there something better I could be using, or any suggestions for other advantages/modifiers to tie in besides Snatcher and Warp?

>>53562284
Powers: The Weird has something a lot like this as an ability of the Noumena power. Check to see what they priced it at.

>>53562499
Maybe I'm just not seeing it, but, well... I'm not seeing it. The "Extradimensionality" power is actually pretty neat, and I may make use of that on another character down the line, but I don't see anything that applies to/refers to what I'm looking for in the book.

>>53562878
>>53562499
Actually, it was fairly well hidden; Special Portal, -20%. Requires "stepping into a mirror or dense shadow, turning a corner onto an unwatched path, or passing through a door into an enclosed space such as a closet". That works! Thanks.

>>53555422
>Is it okay to layer thin clothing with armor?

Yes. Per the basic set and Low Tech, if clothing does not provide DR you can layer it freely without any penalty. Note that it still weighs something, and heavy winter clothes can push your encumbrance up.

>>53564595
It's not thin clothing that doesn't provide DR. It's *as thin as* thin clothing but still provides DR.

The main issue in my mind is that a low-tech gambeson is fairly thick but provides DR 0, so it's kosher to layer, but an ultra-tech t-shirt that gives DR 4 while being only a millimeter thick and extremely flexible is not kosher to layer. It's just weird, I guess, that this isn't explicitly addressed.

>>53565059
Thicker gambersons hit the layered fabric/quited fabric armor level and would count as an armor layer.

For Ultra Tech, yeah, it's a little hard to say. UT armor rules are generally garbage.

After the end is really helpful for generic post apocalypse shit right?

>>53566278
That's what it's designed for, and yes, it does it pretty well.

>>53567123
How does it do with just before, and during, the end?

The actual apocalypse.

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>>53569274
Pretty well. There are several discussions of potential events and advice to have that. Some of the rules are based on the period after a new equilibrium has been reached (the period 2-5 years post-event or more) but in general it's good to go.

Read it for yourself, friend.

>>53569338
Oh, this is pretty helpful. Thanks.

Where i can find costs for trade goods, like those in space ships, for TL3 fantasy?

>>53570213
Low Tech Companion 3 - Daily Life and Economics
Pyramid 3-33: Low Tech

>>53534509
I would say we're late TL 8 with 9 coming in the next 30 or so years

>>53572425

It looks like we'll reach TL10 biotech before we reach TL9 nanotech and materials science, though the Air Force has experimental reflex armor compounds. Schizotech.

>>53573932
Smartphones really tipped us forward aways. Personal PC's this good we're really not in scope when the game was printed

>>53574439
I forget where I read it, but I remember someone saying that the future is 70% continuation of existing trends, 20% minor changes everyone saw coming, and 10% weird shit no one predicted. For the last couple generations, that weird shit was the explosion of the internet and development of smartphones.

>>53573932
We're already working on those pharm animals Bio-Tech talks about. The military is looking into making spidersilk goats on a scale large enough to make armor out of

Just saw the new Wonder Woman movie, how much of her character would be disadvantages and how much would just be roleplaying?

Being really naive of how things work in modern time, tries to accomplish objectives the most direct way and goes for what's obvious, feels compelled to help everyone even if it would distract from the mission

>>53577269
Roleplaying > Disadvantages. Wonder Woman could be anywhere from Quirks only to full-blown Disadvantages, it depends on the GM/setting you like to have. Disadvantages are actually optional, a GM could just as easily run a 150/-0 game as a 100/-50 game, making the players pick the kind of quirks and character they want to play without any reward for it. Disadvantages are just that, a reward for fleshing out your character's "bad" sides.

>>53577269
Charitable for the last bit, Anti-Talent for the former. "Brute force problem solving" sounds like Hidebound to me, but that one's most likely a quirk.

>>53578418
I'd actually argue the first is one of Clueless or Oblivious (I forget the difference) plus Low TL and the last one is Selfless rather than Charitable. Spot on for Hidebound/Dull, though, though Impulsive is arguable if you take "impulsive" as "doesn't have patience for subtlety and subterfuge."

In ultra tech, page 178, the header puts skinsuits as TL10-11. But the table below marks a skinsuits as TL9. What gives?

>>53579605
I'd say the header's wrong. Not only is there only one entry on the table (Occam's Razor), the skinsuit gets beat out by both the smart vacc suit and space biosuit; it only has a niche to fill in TL9.

What is the best fencing style? Martial arts implies it is French Smallsword, but what is it really?

I know in real life fighting a gorilla barehanded seems like guaranteed death, but in gurps I think I could win that fight.

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>>53581828
>Doubt

>>53581988
I feel like they should have some points in Brawling.

>>53582053
Without points in Brawling, it still rolls at DX to hit with unarmed attacks.

>>53582084
Sure, but gorillas are pretty good at hitting.

>>53582113
True, but not /parrying/ which is what the formal skill adds.

>>53582124
Thing is, with Brawling, adding DX is the same as adding skill points as far as Parry concerned. So it doesn't matter if you have Brawling-14 or DX-14, the natural parry is still 10 regardless.

Unless there's a disadvantage I'm forgetting that gives a Parry penalty, I don't think there's a way to increase hit chance without increasing Parry as well, and it seems to me that 12 to hit is a bit too small, I'd put it at 14, or 13 to avoid an increase in Parry.

Bears get Brawling at 13, for example. Felines get Brawling at 15 or 16.

>>53582285

Cats parry damn well.

Speaking of Parry, going by RAW, can a skilled enough unarmed human parry a gorilla attack or is there a rule that takes strength and weight difference into account?

>>53582312
I'm not so sure about that. Against other cats, they never parry, they just hit each other and then transition into wrestling. You could argue that they parry against animals like snakes, by hitting their head when they attack, but that could also be an attack since they usually dodge away immediately afterward. Feline anatomy isn't very conductive to parrying since their front legs are best at swiping inward.

A cat surely has the reflexes to parry well, but I'm not sure I've ever seen any feline do it.

They dodge pretty well, though.

>>53582353
An unarmed human can parry attacks from a large ape, and would generally be wise to. While clumsy brawlers they can do a lot of damage grappling.

>Does ST/Size matter for parry?

Generally no.

>>53582113

Not really. In the wild they almost never fight and have few natural predators. They might have intimidation, but not brawl.

>>53582500
In GURPS rules a cat can't parry anyway, that requires hands.

>>53582353
Parrying heavy weapons covers this. I think it's something like unarmed attacks are treated as weighing a number of pounds equal to the attacker's ST score. Slams are treated as weighing WAY more, so it's normally not a good idea to try and parry full-body tackles.

>>53582353
Parrying is less "blocking with your weapon" and more "diverting their weapon with your own". Buit GURPS has a section for parrying heavy weapons and attacks. The SJG forums has a lot of threads on it.

>>53577269
>>53578218
>>53578418
>>53578522
So how many points would you need to make Wonder Woman as she is in her movie?

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>>53584372
350 or so. That's at the lower end, but I feel like with that amount you could play someone that would feel very wonder-woman like.

>>53584730
Can you still have just normal humans at that level as well or would they feel weird with that many points and being next to an actual Super?

>>53579895
Italian Rapier. Smallsword is for pussies.

Martial Arts has been my most wanted rpg book for the last 6 years. I cant just justify buying it at those ridiculous prices you see at amazon/ebay.

Any hope for a reprint?

>>53584372
400 ish points

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>>53584907
Normal humans can work at that level, though without the point sink of supernateral or exotic advantages they tend to take a long time to make and have very high power levels. You can see that sort of thing in Monster Hunter's champions, though they aren't really 'mundane'.

Batman, with his huge list of skills, contacts, resources and high attributes would be quite hard to do at 350 points, despite being a human, if not normal.

So if you're playing a straight medieval game or anything pre-firearm, is there any disadvantage to buying Arm DX, Arm ST, Striking ST, etc? These all seem like really easy choices that make you stronger in combat for a discount. I suppose they don't help you dodge at all or protect yourself better quite like skills might, but still.

>>53587413
I'd argue upping skill level or grabbing the stat helps in more general areas. Those advantages really shine on specialists, though. Striking ST on fist fighters and strongmen, Arm DX on tinkerers...even then a pre-firearm game goes even more to having decent Parry and the like. You need 12+ skill to get past skilled soldiers with DA, Combat Reflexes on vets, armor to avoid falling on one hit...

>>53587413
Well, the main thing with Arm DX, Arm ST, Striking ST, Lifting ST and any others I'm forgetting is that they're Exotic, so the GM might not even allow human/humanoid characters to have them. Check with your GM first.

I usually allow Arm ST and maybe Striking ST and no more than level 2, for low-tech warrior characters.

>>53587109
Isn't Richard the Lionhearted statted at nearly 400 points? And he was a real human bean.

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>>53587682
That is a good point. People that combined being a physical badass with being king of a major nation would add up to a huge amount of points.

>>53587413

Arm DX is sort of trash, with the cost and the narrow application.

>>53587645

Like the man said, it's also Exotic.

>ST broken down?

These are debatable. Striking ST is a good choice for many characters and there are plenty of GMs out there that allow low levels of it. ST is relatively cheap, however, and comes with + Carrying Capacity and + HP, so it's hard not to say that it is worth more then a point of striking ST.