/tgesg/ - Weekend Elder Scrolls General

Why is the tower so small? What purpose does it fill?

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>>53441427
The necromancer probably spent all his gold on wenches and flin, and couldn't afford a bigger one.

>>53441427
they're bigger on the inside
most buildings in TES game suffer from TARDIS syndrome but velothi towers are one of the biggest offenders

I assume they were just outposts in remote locations which might or might not have a few shacks surrounding them, forming a small village. Rogue mages like squatting in them.

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What's your favourite tower in TES?

>>53441000
Why is there a Burger Tower in Morrowind?

I want more house dres lore, they live in a fucking land of salt with salt plants how cool isnt that

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>>53443139
Not really soon...
http://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/galleries/house-dres-concepts

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>>53443139
There's probably a lot more whacky giant insects in southern Morrowind. Isn't that one Redguard comic where Cyrus is fighting dunmer slavers in Dres territory?

>>53443226
>Not really soon..
That's one way of saying ''never ever''

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Why doesn't Dagoth Ur have his minions use divine/almsivi intervention spells/scrolls/enchants to bypass the ghostfence?
If you have the numbers, you can easily stage an invasion this way.

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>>53444410
Who's to say he doesn't? Those bloody ash-creatures that show up from nowhere to molest you in your sleep comes to mind.

>>53444410

Not part of his end game?
He already has plenty of cultists on the outside.
Also, they could just cart everything through Kogoruhn and maybe some other cave systems anyway...

>>53444314
Yeah. They ride giant wasps.

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What would be some good pro-Dominion arguments, /tgesg/?
Preferably no memes but actual in-universe arguments.
Why would Altmer victory be ultimately justifiable and a good thing for Tamriel?

>>53444410
Umm because maybe there is an actual intervention happening and the name of the spell isn't just an allegory. We know certainly that the Tribunal can definitely pull off things like this, even if it's only Vivec after the Heart is destroyed (see how the Ghostgate and Ministry of Truth are still held up). Dont underestimate a millenia-old magic faggot. And Divine Intervention could easily be a quality of the shrines. All games feature Divine shrines that give you some sort of blessing. Wherever those powers are coming from, teleportation is also coming from there and it's selective (like how you need to donate before using the shrines). In my head, the shrines in temples were fine-tuned by priests to work on specific terms and priests can kind of detect who is on the other line before they are permitted to teleport.

>>53446092
Because fuck Talos, he has no virtue nor any quality worthy of worship. He was a warrior who got where he is by backstabbing people and stepping over others. His conquests solved nothing and his Empire was doomed to fail because it was regressive, oppressive and centralized on feeding the fat pig that is Cyrodiil, an absolute shithole where humans ruined another grand civilization thanks to leaders who tricked them into religious fervor like how Talos cults do. He unleashed the equivalent of an atom bomb on Summerset because he couldn't fight with honor, which is for some fucking reason, what he represents in the pantheon. Nothing he ever did contributed to anyone but himself. He did not partake in any creation or important metaphysical event yet he demands the same worship as Divines. Besides, his empire was never taken seriously by anyone because it was obviously there for the sole purpose of enabling sociopaths to remain in power and get rich.

Show me a Talos worshipper and ill show you a pragmatist. I fucking hate humans. Screw their religion, screw their culture, fuck this gay earth, muh immortality.

t.altmer

>>53446373
>Preferably no memes
Oh well, I tried.

>>53446373
I suppose you could go for "the Empire is oppressive" route, but is this true?
The Dominion doesn't seem to be the pinnacle of tolerance? Quite the contrary.

>>53446447
Anon you wanted in-universe answers. This is what a typical Thalmor supporter would tell you. Keep in mind that Altmer are pretty fucking supremacist when it comes to their culture and heritage. Tiber Septim / Talos are extremely controversial figures because they are responsible for plenty of wars without any real reason other than to unify Tamriel under the Imperial City. They fought pretty dirty in Hammerfell for example. An Altmer doesn't give a shit if the Empire stopped slavery and built roads and whatever, they are self centered. They would ask themselves, why do I have to worship a guy who invaded my home and killed my ancestors because they didn't pay tax.

>>53446479
For a Thalmor supporter, the Dominion is the best thing since sliced bread. He is finally legally above every other creature and the political establishment serves him and him only. No need to consider what the fuck Argonians are doing, as long as its not against him. Who cares if they are massacring Dunmer.

Whether Empire was oppressive or not is debatable but ultimately moronic because we simply dont have enough info to form a coherent argument for one side or the other. There are some good stuff they did, there are some bad stuff they did. Sometimes they are liberal some times they are pretty totalitarian. Bethesda won't write a handbook for emperors, nor will they give us a comprehensive historical analysis of governance.

>>53446373
>>53446741
>Thalmor hate roads, centralized government and taxes
>but they do like eugenics
so they're a covenant of hoppean ancaps?

damn nords and their socialism

>>53446741
So a more in depth political dispute isn't really possible? Shame.
For all the Stormcloak vs Imperial regarding Skyrim controversies it would have been nice to have a wider Dominion vs Empire regarding Tamriel itself.
I mean something like non-Mer factions in Tamriel actually having good reasons to support them, different Dunmer Great Houses supporting one side or the other for example. More nuance and complexity.

The Dominion vs Empire thing seems a bit too simplistic being based mostly on racial supremacy

.

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>>53443071

this one

>>53443226

tamriel rebuilts concept art is fucking kino

http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/files/TR_Artbook.pdf

if bethesda made tes vi using that art for concept you could easily have some goat material

>>53446903
Unfortunately anon, Skyrim was written specifically for Casu-el's and this is not a secret. Thalmor are simply magic elf nazis with zero redeeming qualities. TES usually has politics that imitate real life for the purpose of celebration or parody but the last games are just so lazy, it's unbelievable. As long as it gives rise to quests, it's fine, they thought.

I wish they encouraged fan creation then actually implemented it into canon.
>inb4 trainwiz

>>53443071
Those towers look terrible in-game

>>53443071
The Diamond Tower if it was still standing ;-;

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>>53447114
One earthquake and that city's a goner.

>>53447316
That has mostly to do with the fact that they don't really look alike.

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Are there still any good and creative concept artists at Bethesda?

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>>53447383
>>53447114
Reminds me of Ronda

>>53443106
Veloth invented burgers. This was the real reason for the Chimer's departure from Summerset Isle. Sadly, the art has been lost to time, and all that remains is the architectural representations.

>Velothi towers were ancient McDonald's

both mournhold and solitude have a black wolf on a red background as a flag
does this mean anything?

Whale- Tsun
Hawk- Kyne
Snake- Shor
Fox-
Moth- Dibella?
Dragon- Alduin
Owl- Jhunal?
Bear-
Wolf-

Which god matches up with which Totem?

>>53447551
It's just a coincidence.

>Dagoth-Ur slew Kagrenac and took the tools the Dwemer used to tap the power of the Heart. He went to his dying lord Nerevar and asked him what to do with these tools. And Nerevar summoned Azura again, and she showed them how to use the tools to separate the power of the Heart from the Dwemer people.

>And on the fields, the Tribunal and their armies watched as the Dwemer turned into dust all around them as their stolen immortality was taken away.

Wait, what? I thought Kagrenac struck the heart himself and made the dwemer disappear.

From Nerevar at Red Mountain, btw

>>53447551

probably for the same reasons that ancient indian vases and german flags from wwii both had swastikas on them

>>53446903

Well the empire during Skyrim seems to be pretty fucked. Its fractured and not really in control over most provinces. The Emperor is very weak.

Apart from that it boils down to a racial question. We don't know enough about the individual governments to really rate their efficiency.

The Thalmor seem to be very skilled at Spy Work though.

>>53447638
Fox is Orkey, Bear is Stuhn, Wolf is Mara

>>53447725
where do you think the nazis got the swastika from?

>>53447772

A mirror, apparently.

>>53447753
I agree with Orkey being the fox but this made me think, wasn't there a Shezzarrine associated with a fox?

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>>53447685
That book was written by "the Tribunal Temple". It's not an accurate source of information, or, at the very least, you could argue there was a Dragon Break (Numidium was at the Battle of Red Mountain), and it did happen. But so did every other account of what happened there.

>>53447823
hans the fox
there was a dragon tusk 2.0 incident like half a year ago about the fox and the snake

>>53447399
No clue. They did get an artist who's done work on Glorantha to do a few pieces for ESO or Legends or something.

>>53447638
http://michaelkirkbride.tumblr.com/post/128602974278/excerpt-from-a-tesv-skyrim-design-document-with

>>53447823
Hans the Fox.

>>53447873
>>53447881
What did Hans the Fox do?

>>53447906
I believe he was one of the 500 Companions. That's why some say Pelinal was one of them, because they were both Shezzarrine.

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What would a Twin Lamps emblem/banner/icon look like?
I was thinking of something like pic related but well made

>>53447906
>wandered Tamriel, gathering armies, conquering lands, ruling, then abandoning his kingdoms to wander again.
- Before the Ages of Man

He was also counted among the 500 Companions, but that's the kind of story where they just throw in everyone they can think of.

>>53447970
a broken chain would be cool aswell

>>53447881
Interesting implications regarding Dibella and her totem with the ancestor moth stuff. Also how Shor is the Fox, but also the Serpent constellation.
I could've sworn Tsun was the Whale though, hmm.

>>53447873
>dragon tusk 2.0 incident like half a year ago about the fox and the snake
what is this?

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>>53448020
I got a bit autistic and started arguing with everyone in the thread. I insisted on Shor being the snake and Orkey being the fox.

Pretty embarassing desu

>>53448005
Tsun and Stuhn are kind of a weird case. Tsun, the bear, guards the whalebone bridge (Stuhn) in Sovngarde. Tsun and Stuhn also switched places:
>Stuhn and Tsun were shifting and it was still uncouth to prevent this kind of neighboring.

>>53447240
>inb4 trainwiz
But they did actually incorporate his fan stuff

>>53448049
It led to a beautiful cavalcade of shitposting though.

>>53448102
Dont really know, nor do I care tbqh. Never even played any of his mods.

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>>53448102
What we need is a Dreamboy. Trainwiz is ok, but the train motifs get a little old after a while.

>>53448151
You're missing out

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>>53448126
It was a waste of time really.
I'm still not sure about Stuhn and Stun.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Fragmentae_Abyssum_Hermaeus_Morus
confirms that Shor is a fox

>>53448102
They did? How do we know?

>>53448270
ESO's Sotha Sil content has references to it, what tips you off is that trainwiz spelled names and words wrong, and they retain that misspelling in the ESO stuff.

>>53446092
>"Let me tell you why I support the Altmeri Dominion, and why I think any right-minded Altmer should do the same."
>"I am not old enough to remember Tiber Septim's conquest, but every Altmer knows of the brutality he used when he fielded his infernal golem against us. Our surrender was swift and humiliating, for fear of complete destruction. Yet you worship him for this. But we did not forget the suffering, and his Empire was never welcome."
>"The Empire spawned forces that seek to change what we, pervert our culture and our race into something lesser. Dunmer stood to inherit the throne of Firsthold, and the King of Shimmerene was slaughtered by pro-Imperial fanatics. Landmarks and royalty were targeted by violent gangs, no doubt funded by disgraced exiles, and perhaps even parts of the Empire."
>"Sure, there were weak-willed imperialists like Ocato who cared more for Empire than for homeland, as we were force to change our ancient ways to the whims of some foreign ruler, but our spirit never succumbed. And for centuries, we sent out gold, ships and blood to this faraway Emperor of Man. Yet they were reluctant to provide any such aid to us."

>>53448295
>"When the fool Antiochus Septim nearly let us be conquered by the Maormer, it was our Altmeri regional rulers who had to go above and beyond, to save us from Orgnum's soldiers. When Uriel Septim V needed to build the world's largest fleet for his suicidal invasion, did not Altmeri suffer and die for him? There have never been a naval tradition to rival ours. How many times have the realms of Man descended into civil war, placing another burden on us?"
>"Then came the Great Anguish. I suppose you lot call it the Oblivion Crisis. If there ever was a time for the Empire to earn any legitimacy, to protect its unwilling citizens from the otherworldly hordes, this would be it. But yet again, the Empire failed us, withdrawing forces to protect Cyrodiil. Because that's all the Empire has ever been about, the protection and enrichment of the Cyrodiil that Men stole from Mer."
>"Thousands upon thousands slaughtered, buildings laid in rubble, venerable mages and leaders lost. The Crystal Tower, monument to Aldmeri ingenuity and Altmeri magic, a symbol which history I doubt you can under stand, sacked and destroyed by Dagon's filth. That is an event I am old enough to remember. Centuries of service to the Empire, for nothing."

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>>53443071
Dwemer towers from Morrowind.
Sadly, the latest ESO cashgrab seems to be using Skyrim-style Dwemer, which is disappointing.

>>53448318
>"I didn't support the Thalmor before Great Anguish. I was young, and I didn't care much for politics. Life under the Empire was all I ever knew. But they fought for us that day, when the Empire failed. It was the War of the Isle all over again, just much worse. I might not be alive if it weren't for what they did in those days. We all knew that we've been categorically exploited by the rest of Tamriel for centuries, but the Thalmor were the first to really say that out loud. And the first to do something about it. And for that they have my eternal support."
>"I'm not much into their higher ideals, but I agree that the only way to truly prosper again is to return to how it all was in our glory days, before the Empire. The Dominion client kingdoms; Valenwood, Pelletine and Anequina, I don't care much for. They're a means to an end, the manpower and resources we need to ensure our prosperity and our independence. I don't wish them ill, I just cannot put the interest of any foreign realm above our own. Our strength has always been in inwards perfection, though it's clear we need global strength to safeguard it."

>Cymbamia, Altmeri Patriot

>>53448337
Kind of. They're new architecture rather than Skyrim's style towers. So it's like Morrowind's models with Skyrim's textures and adornments.

>>53447881
>The Eight Divines are viewed by the Nords as a “Southern” import. They retain some of the taint of the Alessian Order, and are basically viewed as a religion for foreigners. Their gods are fine for them, but Nords need Nord gods.

>Some of the gods are the same (or similar) – significantly these are the three female gods, which are far more important to the Nords than they are in the Imperial Cult. (Kyne is in fact the de facto head of the Nord pantheon.) The Nords are perplexed and disturbed by the Imperial Cult’s focus on the Dragon God – they regard this as a fundamental misunderstanding of the universe, and one likely to cause disaster in the end. (Which fits perfectly with the pessimistic Nord view of the world in general – things are likely to turn out badly, and it will probably be caused by some foreigner.)

Oh, what skyrim could have been

>>53448290
What did they incorporate?

>>53448400
Pretty much everything from his sotha sil mods, including the guns.

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>>53448337
Morrowind's dwemer ruins had really neat shapes, they looked alien and exotic. I do think that Skyrim's ruins has a better color scheme. Vanilla Morrowind was pretty dull in colors.

>>53448422
I liked the Tribunal dwemer dungeons the best.

>>53448448
Are they any different? I haven't progressed enough in Tribunal yet because it's so sluggish.

>>53447906
He seems to have been a Breton hero, the name is used interchangeably with Arnand the Fox, a previous incarnation of Zurin Arctus.

>>53449326
>a previous incarnation of Zurin Arctus
One of the biggest mysteries left is what exactly is going on with Chevalier Renald (we can guess that) and who exactly "the Pig" is (harder to guess).

>>53449147

They're bigger, more complex, and use environmental effects to a greater extent than regular ruins.

>>53446903
The Dominion hates Dunmer because of their Daedra worship.

>>53449452

tribunals dungeons were a prototype for the ones in oblivion

>>53449452
the sewers were fucking shit so far

>>53449499
That doesn't exactly speak in their favor does it?

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>>53449499
And visually and in terms of space Skyrim's ones take more cues from them.

Was there an explanation for Arena's Argonians being incredibly humanoid?

>>53450358
Hist experiment. More of a joke. Don't think about it too hard.

How do the different races view Bosmer? I've been lurking imperial library but there isn't much on how they interact outside of a few cases.

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>>53451580
>How do the different races view Bosmer?

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>>53451580
You've seen Fargoth. How do you think a normal person would view that thing?

>>53451636
Congrats on being canon.

>>53451835
So are there screenshots and stuff showing how they're the same?

>>53452104
A fair amount of Sotha screenshots yeah. Halls of Fabrication had a lot of cool lore tidbits. Arquebuses are canon, but so is apparently hacking and computer terminals (the final boss isn't technically that giant dwemer centurion with the fucking missile launcher, it's an AI that takes command of it. The final fight is twelve people having to distract it while Divayth Fyr desperately hacks the terminal behind it.

>>53452132
Huh. That's pretty surprising. Not offense to you, but I'm not sure how I feel about that.

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>>53452153
It's cannon canon bro. Sotha Sil already had circuitboards and advanced robots in vanilla Tribunal anyway.

>>53452132
Is there any explanation for why things are so dwemer in appearance?

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>Ysmir is an aspect of Shor
>Tiber Septim was Ysmir
>Tiber Septim mantled into Shor
>Talos is Shor, Shor mantled into Shor to fill his own spot after elfniggergods killed him

do i have it right?

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>>53452184
Yep. You're specifically going through the part of the city where Sotha Sil has been gathering up tons of dwemer technology and melting it down for materials, but he was making things of dwemer design. The AI actually writes a report to Sotha Sil mentioning how he's canned all production of dwemer-style stuff recently, so you fight heavily modded dwemer robots, and others that are wrecked and basically undead (empty eye sockets spilling out glowing blue liquid). One of the bossfights is against a trio of refabricators, humanoid fabricants who are necromancers that reanimate the junkyard you're in, so you've got all these severed robot limbs rising up to attack you. There's also enemies that have two megaman style buster cannons instead of limbs.

>>53452229
>The AI actually writes a report to Sotha Sil mentioning how he's canned all production of dwemer-style stuff recently
Good AI.

>>53452305
Assembly General good general.
Fyr tries talking to it at one point, and it yells back
>QUERY DENIED. ERROR: CREATOR NOT FOUND.

>>53446092
Genuine, complete Thalmor victory means Nirn is destroyed in a desperate grasp for divinity that has no chance of working. There... really aren't any good arguments.

If they WEREN'T trying to blow up the world, a case could be made for their long lifespans and innate grasp of magic making them uniquely suited for guiding the growth of the the other races. They're probably the most technically advanced culture around. In the long run, spending a century or two under a non-doomsday cult Dominion rule would be horrendously bloody, but potentially very progressive.

They're still dicks though.

>>53452211
Sort of.

>>53448381
holy shit thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis

sweet lord i get that this was supposed to be Skyrim under an extended period of Imperial control, but i really wish they pressed the Nordic uniqueness more.

I'm happy that they showcased their emphasis on Nord-origin gods like Dibella, Kyne, and possibly Shor via Talos.

Still though, Kyne shouldn't be only called by her Nordic name by some mountain hermit, and by her Imperial name in the cities.

>>53452342
Isn't that one of the big reasons the Elves hate him?
I get that they are butthurt over Tiber's brass tower nuke, but don't they also recognize him as a revived Lorkhan, the guy who thrust them out of Aedraship in their minds?

>>53451580
Bosmer seem to be kind of glossed over, even in-universe. At worst, they're considered those weird elves that live in trees and eat their dead. Their women tend towards noticeable beauty though, and that probably helps more with their reputation than most will admit.

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Who was in the right here?

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>>53446903
>dunmer
>supporting any outlanders

>>53452719
>filename
>no battling in site

>>53452719
>Ghostgate is up

s'wit

>>53452719
No one, yet also everyone.

Except Kagrenac. It is universal law that Kagrenac is always wrong

Are the Dark Brotherhood stupid for worshipping Sithis?

I thought he was an entirely passive force. Or is their religiousness overplayed in the games?

>>53453044
>Are the Dark Brotherhood stupid

yeah they are fuckin retards

they got themselves nearly wiped out by going "we are killer"

>>53453044
>Are the Dark Brotherhood stupid for worshipping Sithis?
Yes, especially since they aren't really blessed by Sithis. Night Mother is just a puppet of Mephala, who got the emo band together to make sure the Morag Tong won't slack off

>>53453044

I was under the impression that most DB assassins were just assassins for hire rather than crazy cultists.

>>53452404
Pretty much. It would be like if literal Satan nuked New York.

>>53453103
Considering that the Daedra are the product of solely Sithis, while the Aedra are the product of Sithis and Padomay, aren't they still rather justified in having a Sithis cult spring out of an original Mephala one?

So if Elves are the descendants of the Old Ehnlonfey and believe themselves prior Aedra and thus seek their return to godhood, why do Elves worship Daedra so fucking much?

Seems like Mankind/Wandering Ehlnofey is doing the best job of keeping Oblivion out of their worship despite seeing Mundus as their playground.

>>53453250
>why do Elves worship Daedra so fucking much?
Boethiah.

>>53453236
>Considering that the Daedra are the product of solely Sithis, while the Aedra are the product of Sithis and Padomay,
Wrong. Sithis is just a fancy word for Void/Entropy/Nothingness. Sithis is literall "IS NOT"

Further, stop acting like Aedra and Daedra actually mean anyhting. Its merely a distinction to describe who helped make Mundus and who didn't. You seem to instead have them confused for "Anuic" and "Padhomic", which merely means whether in the dream of the Godhead whether they are a reflection of the memory of Anu or Padhome. Akatosh is an Anuic Aedra, but Peryite is also an Anuic Daedra, and likewise both Lorkhan and Boethia are Padhomics of their respectice pantheons.

Sithis is not a conscious entity, it is merely the void, the state of Emptiness/Nothing that arose from Anu's dreaming memory of Padhome.

>>53453250
Because the only people who still bother with mainting their Elenofhey roots are the Altmer and Bosmer, all the other Elves have for various reasons said "fuck yo shit, we have a different opinion.

Though an argument can be made for Orsimer, since Malacath is still kinda Trinimac

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If you were to make a lore-friendly mod for Morrowind, no matter how big or small, what would it be?

Why did Boethiah, Mephala and Azura trick the Chimer/Dunmer to abandon their kin and start worshipping them? Did these Daedra just get bored or something and wanted to make their own race.

>>53453461
>trick

>>53453461
St Veloth was tired of the self-pitying existence that was being an Altmer, and wanted to actually find and pursue a path for existential meaning. It just so appens that those three were the first to give him actual aid and guidance down that path by introducing him to the Psijic Endeavor.

It wasn't so much as he was tricked, but rather those three were just the ones who gave him the best deal available

>>53453449
Sloads being an actual part of Morrowind like they wanted.

Hehehehehe

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WiuKhWGd5TA

>>53453374
ok, so i hit the wiki again and it turns out my whole understanding of the higher order beyond the Aedra/Daedra is fucked

guess i need to reunderstand this, but i thought that the Aedra were the result of a mixture of order and chaos and the Daedra only chaos due to the origins of their creators.

>>53453639
Nope. Aedra just means "Our Ancestors" and is what the Aldmeri used to refer to the Elenhofey that aided in the creation of Mundus.

Daedra meanwhile just means "Not our Ancestors", and it just refers to te beings that were not involved in the creation of Mundus.

There is also a third goup, the Magna-Ge, who at first started to help make Mundus, but left with Magnus when he realized Lorkhan's intention in creating Mundus, and just NOPED on out, creating the Sun in the process. of him tearing his way out of the Blackblock back to Aetherius. The others that followed him made smaller holes, which are the stars.

Elhenofey can be either Anuic, based on Anu/Order/Stasis, or Padhomic, based on Padhome/Chaos/Change. The only exceptions to the rule is Lorkhan/Aka, due to Lorkhan embedding his sole into Aka's thus making them the same being and thus both Anuic and Padomic at once, and TalOS, due to being a fusing of 2 Shezzarine and 1 Dovahkiin and being an ascended mortal.

Oh, an I guess Sheo/Jyggy also used to a weird exception as well, but no one is quite sure how to catagorize Shyggy due to him being buttraped by the other Daedra's Curse. Luckily its less complicated now that the CoC has mantled him as well as split Sheo and Jyggylag into two distinct entities, so now you have Padhomic Sheo (due to CoC being DOUBLE LORKHAN!) and Anuic Jyggylag

>>53453639
>but i thought that the Aedra were the result of a mixture of order and chaos and the Daedra only chaos due to the origins of their creators
That's what the Anuad says, but the Anuad is just a story, not to be taken literally.

-Kirkbride on the Aedra and Daedra
>"Sons and daughters of" should be read as associates of/associated with, especially insofar as this association was a conscious choice.
>Aurbis was created from the two, its energies coalesced into first forms, and these in turn made of the Aurbis what they could; keep sons and daughters in that context and it becomes easier to see them.
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/more-about-aedra-daedra

What are some titles that some of the Major Antagonists of the games could wear, should they return in some glorious fashion?

King/God of Worms is piss easy for Mannimarco, for example. Harder to think of stuff for Ur or Mankar.

>>53453914
>Dagoth Ur
>return
pls no

I don't want any of the old antagonists to return. Except some super convoluted and laughably evil return of Jagar Tharn, I would be strangely okay with that.

>>53446819
BUT WHO WILL BUILD THE WHEEL?

>>53453745
>>53453744
>just when i start to make sense of this shit it gets more complicated
frankly I'm happy, it's more i get to learn about the most fascinating lore ever

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>>53454066
Sorry to break this to you bruh, but this is beginning stuff. Just wait til you delve into stuff like the Enantiomorph and Amaranth

>>53454190
holy fuck where do i go to to learn this

are there literal fucking novels?

>>53454223
>are there literal fucking novels?
Yeah, but a lot of the lorelets here haven't actually read them.

>>53454223
Yes, also Kirkbride's interviews and the ingame lorebook in mostly Daggerfall and Morrowind.

>>53454223
If you want a good place to start, I suggest watching the videos on by the Selectives Lorecast

>>53454423
thank you

>>53454325
will read

>>53454252
what are they titled?

>>53454461
"The Infernal City" and "Lord of Souls".

>>53448295
>>53448341
That's well written.

>>53447430
>guar roll and I'll bring candles
there were burgers and good enough that Vivec would let you pierce all of his appertures for one

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Can anyone tell me why Almalexia never got AZURA'd and kept her golden chimer skin?

>>53455199
Heart of Lorkhan for a Spray-on tan

>>53453512
Part of the province or the game? AFAIK they just do some trading in Tear and then go back in their airships.

>>53453559
I fucking despise faggots like Camelworks and Brodual who only play Skyrim and shill idiotic ''lore''.

>>53455199
I'm guessing that the ALMSIVI were allowed to choose, or the degree to which they were changed is symbolic. Almalexia stays completely chimer, Vivec is half dunmer half chimer, Sotha Sil is completely dunmer (I assume atleast, it'd make sense)

>>53455199
I think it's a reflection of how they perceived the curse personally. Sotha Sil is an introspective character and deeply sentimental as well, he fully realized that they committed a sin by tapping into the Heart and he accepts the punishment.
Vivec on the other hand considers everything he does to be a lesson. He is a teacher at heart and an idol in his actions. Of all gods, he is most aware of the consequences of actions. His very skin is a chronicle on display, as if to say "look upon your god, remember where we came from, dont forget what you are, never underestimate what you can be".
Lastly, Almalexia, is stubborn and convicted. She wouldn't accept any punishment she thought she didn't deserve. She is an idealist and a chauvinist at the same time and refuses to be held back by the consequences of her actions. She simply 'does' and let's others deal with it. Who dares to force something on her! Her ego is so grand that she has the courage to literally take on Mehrunes Dagon himself. This is her confidence.

This is my understanding.

>>53447114
What's up with all the slit eyes on the designs

>>53456998
Sand/sun. Deserts.

No one's discussing Sotha's sermons and his deconstruction of Padomaics? Have I missed something?

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>>53457876
>more retarded ESO lore
No thanks.

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>>53452211
Are there two aspects of Shor in Talos?
I swear I remember reading that Zurin Arctus was also one.

>>53457973
>I swear I remember reading that Zurin Arctus was also one.
Well, it depends on how you want to look at it. Wulf is pretty straightforward. Is Hjalti a Shezarrine? Zurin is actually a Tsaesci knight.

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>>53458051
I've also heard that, but does that prevent him from being a shezzarine?

>>53458136
Not that I think of it, Zurin could've been the onw who stole the Dragon Blood from Cuhlecain.

>>53458136
Probably not.

>Zurin might have been a Tsaesci knight
What proofs?

>>53458399
These loyal knights did go by no name then, but were known by their eastern swords and painted eyes, and it was whispered that they were descended from the bodyguard of old Reman. One of their number, called the Chevalier Renald, discovered the prowess of Cuhlecain and then supported him towards the throne. Only later would it be revealed that Renald did this thing to come closer to Talos, anon Stormcrown, the glorious yet-emperor Tiber Septim; only later still, that he was under instruction by a pig.

Long glory was wife to the all the knights of the dragon-banner, who knew no other and were brothers before beyond many seas and now were brothers under the law named the blade-surrender of Pale Pass. And having vampire blood these brother-knights lived for ages through and past Reman and then kept guard over his ward, the coiled king, Versidue-Shaie. The snake-captain Vershu became Renald became the protector of the northern west when the black dart was hooked into Savirien-Chorak.

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Anyone know off the top of their head the general age range most of the races live?

>>53454049
I

>>53457876
Yeah. You see, ESO lore is bad, bad, bad. In fact, everything in connection to ESO is bad. Awful. Stupid. Gross. Did I say bad already?

Their problem. Their loss. Good thing this place ain't the only joint to talk about lore.

>>53458567
Men, Orsimer, and beasts have lifespans similar to IRL humans.

Elves live longer. Altmer are naturally longest-lived I think, but remember that magic is a thing and can be used to extend someone's life to extreme effect if they are strong enough (see Divayth Fyr).

>>53458746
>Orsimer
What about Orkey's curse though?
Also, I think there was an implication that Bretons age a bit slower.

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I don't know about 2e, but in UESRPG 3e it seems like Altmer are just flat worse than Bretons until you get to significantly higher XP values.

>>53458567
I'm fairly certain this is the single most asked lore question.

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>>53458893
It seems like such a basic one, but I realized that even though I've played TES games since Redguard I never actually knew.

>>53458937
That's fair.
Funny you should mention Redguard, since that was around the time we got this:
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/interviews-alvur-relds

Which has a somewhat controversial range given for Dunmeri lifespans.

>>53458842
They've got time to learn.

Maybe Seht will be around and you can ask him.

>>53458842
How so?
The Bretons get magic resistance and some bonus magicka, while Altmer get more magicka, resistance to poison and paralysis, and a magical weakness.

>>53459169
Altmer
>50% disease resist
>Ignore penalties to tests to resist paralysis
>+20 magicka
>+2 damage received from magical effects
>-20 to all tests to resist magical effects (except paralysis)

Bretons
>-2 damage received from magical effects
>+20 on tests to resist all magical effects (including paralysis)
>+10 magicka

It just seems like altmer got the short end of the stick here unless your GM plans on throwing a lot of paralysis and disease at you, which seems highly unlikely.

>>53459256
Remember that MB=Int, so a 10 point increase is pretty significant, especially for inexperienced characters.
The baseline MB of an Altmer is 50, while the Breton has 38, and the highest any other race gets is 27. That's obviously before you start character creation, but it's still not an insignificant bonus.

Where is Dagoth Ur?

>>53457876
Where can I find these, I dont have ESO?

>>53457876
I'm shocked too. I saw some discussion on teslore but it was so minimal and a lot of it was just reactionary. Truth in Sequence is good minus the flowery ass prose. It's just a horrible, horrible Sotha Sil piece of lore. Instead of the individualistic Sotha Sil we get a psycho who flatout declares "names" and "multitiude" bad. He's planning some sort of robotic hive mind while declaring choice an illusion - which ignores the concept of Heroes, escaping the tower, and how the Elder Scrolls are written. It's crazy.

The more his sermons go on the less it seems plausible Vivec and Almalexia would have tolerated his ass. Especially Vivec who's all about individuality, names, mingling with higher spirits.

>>53459675
I dunno, Sotha Sil being super anuic makes sense to me. Man has a history of telling the daedra to fuck right off, and I always saw his own obsession with the world meaning that he only ever really saw one part of the truth. Like he understands the godhead, but misses the point of Lorkhan.

>>53448412
So far arbequses. What Trainwiz stuff being incorporated seems to be one of the hardest things to answer recently.

>>53459771
Probably stuff like humanoid fabricants, the city being run by AI, replicants of existing characters, the city's design going from a few small halls to a big sprawling thing. The arquebuses showing up at least indicate they're clearly looking at his Sotha Sil stuff and pulling from it.

>>53459759
Yeah but there's a difference between being Anuic and going straight up evil hivemind. He makes Marukh look sane.

>>53459759
Oh yeah I agree his hate of the higher spirits make sense and overall the idea of a more unionized Nirn sounds right. But his disregard for individuality is really weird compared to what he's stood for. The gaps of stuff he doesn't know while being in the Wheels of Lull, knowing Vivec, and knowing some stuff about Anu is really weird and disconcerting.

I can at least attribute the mania of the sermons to the guy telling the story, his Tourbillion. But overall it's a bit of a radical execution of Sotha Sil and one that just doesn't add up even considering it's a younger Sotha Sil at the time and he was one brash ass motherfucker back in the day.

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>>53459875
Sotha Sil's still got that elements of 2920 though, if Barilzar's dialogue is any indication. He's got that quirky clever quote-machine personality, but just is masking the fact that he's as bonkers as the Alessian Order. It's not like the Tribunal secretly being dicks is anything new, and remember Sotha Sil doesn't actually figure out the purpose of his city.

>>53456998

this depiction of hammerfell runs with a 'medieval persia with samurai' theme. taking visual cues from feudal japan (design of porcelain armor), islamic golden age (building design), and primitive subsaharan africa (people and religion).

tribal african art is often made from clay or wood or metal and the 'slit eye' art style is both a long standing tradition and as well just a way to work with materials that do not lend well to making detailed human faces.

not to mention the artists themselves styled their works after michael kirkbride's concept art for morrowind, who often made minimalist faces.

>>53459532

Might be on UESP by now?

>>53459894
That's always how we had him in SSE and WoL, he has those gaps. Or perhaps more accurately he comes to a completely different conclusion with the same amount of evidence. Also Sotha Sil always seemed less about individuality and more about singularity and solidarity. He builds his own realm, with his own people. He's kind of a weird aspie.

>>53459905
It feels like Sotha Sil being insane was something that never needed to be a route. From 2920 it seemed like he was well put together mentally and that what he was learning and dealing with was insane rather than the man himself. Sotha Sil being a dick makes sense but there's being a dick and being a lunatic. It feels like an unfortunate route for them to take Sotha Sil. They could have played this out a lot better but it feels like the Sotha Sil who told the daedra to fuck off so Morrowind and its people can be free and better on their own isn't the same guy as the one in Truth in Sequence or in 2920.

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>it's Trainboy pushing his goofy headcanons episode

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>>53459999
>it seemed like he was well put together mentally and that what he was learning and dealing with was insane rather than the man himself.

Yeah, and Vivec and Almalexia come off as loving, charismatic leaders. They're all hiding being pretty big facades.

>>53460014
You missed /tesg/.

>>53460014

nigga took over the series by way of the writers for the mmo being fans of him

if mmo lore bleeds into tes vi, then its over and well all be playing the trainwiz scrolls

>>53460014
>headcanons
They're canon now :^)

>>53460053
You missed /tesg/.

See? I can do this too.

>>53460060
Best timeline.

>>53459985
To be fair those are mods and as good as they are I wouldn't base much on those even if ESO used lore from them. I mean in the sense of overall TES lore. ESO is already in a dubious position where a lot of people have to put it aside to make things work.

As for making his own realm and his own people, it felt like he's working with the Wheels of Lull and accomplishing a mission. He's a work and goal oriented person to an extreme, he makes people who he feels can do what he needs to instead of convincing others to do it. It sounds like he kept his sanity and overall sane intentions until his death. Truth in Sequence seems like he went full redpilled and /pol/ mode while being a basement dweller too long.

>>53460067
Wailways aren't. Not yet...

>>53460060
>then its over and well all be playing the trainwiz scrolls
And nothing of value was lost.

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>>53460078
I wouldn't say he was ever too sane though. He messed with the Heart of Lorkhan, which is always a Bad Idea, and was complicit in Nerevar's death. Even if he had a shred more empathy than the other two Tribunes, I can't see him as purpose oriented. He was an experimenter, in ESO Barilzar even states that he would just fuck around with every single thing that interested him. I can't say he wasn't always at least somewhat screwy anyway. He spent time with the dreugh civilization, did weird shit with the psijics, and god knows what else. He was always a few bearings short of a full retroencabulator.
And again, the rest of the Tribunes weren't much better off pre-godhood and even post-godhood. Sotha Sil was the one who regretted, not the token good member.

>>53460028
Yeah and we saw all that too, I'm considering the totality of what we've seen in lore and in-game and it still just seems like a radical thing to do with Sotha Sil. With lore you can see Vivec has past shit about him that adds up to what we knew before. Even ESO's cheesy shit fables sorta add up with Almalexia. Truth in Sequences comes off as an unfortunate route to take with Sotha Sil or more accurately one not executed well at all - a complete focus on the insanity of Sotha Sil and nothing else with no attempt to connect to the guy himself but just to be ranting of crazed ideas with no little support for it. I actually like TiS but it just doesn't fit well.

>>53454481
The tes novels barely touch on methaphysics and gods though? There's really not much to learn from them in that regard.

>>53460139

absolute power corrupts absolutely

>>53459675
Isn't it by a Sotha Sil follower? I haven't read all of it, I'm not a huge fan of the prose either.

Sermon 37 is good shit on the other hand.

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>>53460158

>implying that setting the stage for skyrim and expanding on how the oblivion crisis affected tamriel as a whole wasnt more important than any metaphysics

>The Cacophany wear gold and hideous masks and their instruments are built into their armor. Most have flute helms that span a foot or more, while the leader plays his ribs like a xylophone with broken bird bones. Their bottom halves all dance the same kind of impetuous, exaggerated march, kicking up dust, scaring off scribs. The natives say this is all that’s left of Sotha Sil. Maybe that’s why there are so many Swooners, silk-webbed women (or painted men) that crawl behind them, crawl or wriggle in the dirt, an entourage of excess in the din. That’s what strikes you most.

>What strikes you most is the clamor, their red noise wandering, a boom-boom-blare as they advance through the plain. They say this is a membership drive or a spell or a reenactment. They say this might all be a great joke of Sotha Sil. One Swooner dies or pretends to. The priest beside me, a Mephalite sporting a sigil-halo in lieu of the regular horned abbot’s hat, tells me that these are the last dead leaves of the Velothi south. Seeing that I don’t understand, he tries to correct himself: ‘but the music they make is a skill that has been useful to ALMSIVI many times since. Songs are words reborn.’ By which, I guess, he meant to counteract the common saying, ‘By the word I mean the dead.’

>Ach, if only you were here, Gosleigh! Your notions that the Ayleid shaper talents have moved east and into melody are proved correct!

https://www.imperial-library.info/content/xal-gosleigh-letters

>>53460172
It is. Sotha Sil IS building and replicating a fuckload of things on Nirn in clockwork though. I thought HoF would be the fabricants coming out and forcibly trying to convert Nirn, but it's actually just a garbage chute that was forcibly reopened and the fabricants are security while the AI controlling it tries to seal it back up.
I still definitely see Sotha Sil saying "fuck the dwemer, fuck the daedra, gears 4 lyfe". It fits what we actually see in the HoF

>>53460139
I don't think messing with the Heart and being a war-soaked guy who decides another death is necessary for a greater causes is really an argument for insanity. Those are crazy things to do but not in the same vein as actual insanity. ESO Barilzar of course will support the ESO lore too. And before ESO, it felt like Sotha Sil was the token good member. I remember discussions, even ones you were in, where people pegged him as such since he continued working on long lasting projects, was the one who regretted the killing, etc. Honestly a Sotha Sil who can regret killing Nerevar doesn't seem like the same one in TiS.

>>53460080
Hey, if it's in Histories of Strange Pre-Marriage it counts as far as I'm concerned.

Why does ESO fab armor like look dwem armor?

>>53460249
For ESO devs technology = Dwemer. I mean, look at their fucking mananaut helmet for Vehk's sake.

>>53460211
>And before ESO, it felt like Sotha Sil was the token good member.
Perhaps I was a little unclear. Sotha Sil's definitely the "good" member of the Tribunal, because he was the most regretful and emphatic. But he was never a straight up good guy, just sympathetic. Even in SSE we had him actually be pretty bad in a neglectful, secluded sort of way.

>>53460249
Because you're taking it from the part of the city specifically breaking down dwemeri shit.

>>53460280
What? In SSE Sotha Sil is constantly helping you out through the city.

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>>53460301
If you get a chance to replay it talk to Alpharius Alpharius, the fabricant outside your house. He gives you a bit more context as to why everyone is so silly. It's not a pleasant reason.

So let me get this straight about the creation of Nirn.

>In the primordial chaos two brothers Anu and Phadomai came into being.
>As they traveled the chaos they came upon Nir, a female spirit born in the same chaos.
>Anu dicked Nir till she got pregnant, Phadomai felt cucked and stabbed her.
>Anu banishes him into the shadow realm or w.e..
>Nir gives birth to 12 mortal worlds and dies.
>Anu retreats into a sun to cry his heart out.
>Phadomai returns from his banishment and decides to destroy the 12 worlds.
>He shatters them but Anu manages to salvage the shards of two worlds to create Nirn with them.
>Anu dukes it out with Phadomai and decides to banish him self along with Phadomai so neither of the two may not come back.

Consequently:

>From the blood of Phadomai the Daedra are born.

>From the blood of Anu the Magna Ge are born.

>From their mixed blood the Aedra are born.

>The mortal beings that survived the destruction of the mortal worlds are the Ehlonfey and the Hist who now dwell on Nirn.

>Daedra can't enter Nirn personally cause they have no real conection to it and have Phadomais blood.

>Magna Ge take the smart approach and fuckoff despite being able to enter.

>Aedra are dicks who convince the mortal Ehlonfey that they are their ancestors and THEY WUZ GODZ AND SHEET. But not before they get affected by mortality and keel over.


We found the hole in the Thalmor narative here.
They claim that they can reclaim some inexistent ''divinity''.
Maybe they are just a ploy by the Aedra who wish to achieve some lichdom or find a way to leave Nirn.

>>53460280
And that regret and empathy seems too distant from the guy in TiS. Neglectful and secluded can make sense as a guy who runs a Clockwork City and has a lot of his plate, he just ends up abandoning shit and his fabricated lifeforms go insane because he's doing crap like replicating life. It works well with the mission-oriented aspect of him.

>>53460280
So it's dwemer armor draped in a robe with some gears on it?

>>53460325
That's mostly mortal rhetoric. Look past it. See: >>53453745

>"Sons and daughters of" should be read as associates of/associated with, especially insofar as this association was a conscious choice.
>Aurbis was created from the two, its energies coalesced into first forms, and these in turn made of the Aurbis what they could; keep sons and daughters in that context and it becomes easier to see them.

You're right about the Thalmor, but that's all them.

>>53460344
Again, Sotha Sil was never really mission oriented though. He's an experimenter who leaves things behind and forgets them. He doesn't have a goal in mind so much as a curiosity for absolutely everything., which drives him to some nutso conclusions.
Also TiS is like the 36 Lessons. It's their inner thoughts on things. Vivec's sermons don't match up with his personality when we're actually talking to him in either game, for example.

>>53460014
Yet again

>>53460194
I mean, that's fair enough, but not really what anon was asking for.

Because it was written by a Sotha Sil follower and not Sotha Sil himself, isn't arguing about how it reflects Sotha Sil's personal thoughts kind of a moot point?

>>53460398
Go whine elsewhere then.

What is a tourbillion anyway?

>>53460428
TIDF please go away.

>>53460446
Balancing mechanism for a watch. He's Sotha Sil's handler.

>>53460325
>Nir gives birth to 12 mortal worlds and dies.
You were right up until this part. This and most everything after is wrong

Also
>From the blood of Phadomai the Daedra are born.
>From the blood of Anu the Magna Ge are born.
>From their mixed blood the Aedra are born.
This is wrong, kinda, mostly. iirc there are Padhomic Magna-Ge, as well as Anuic Daedra, so you got all of that wrong.

Also, Aedra don't really "trick" anyone. They were tricked by Lorkhan, but then decided "eh, why not go with it now that we're here", which results in most all of them either dieing or going into a near death state wit their sleeping bodies becoming planets, and Lorkhan getting torn in half and becoming the moons

>>53460386
Yeah but the sermons were in the same game and there was stuff in that game that were vague with different perspectives. The game's main plot let's you know something is up with Vivec many times. So it's not Vivec's appearance to the player was a singled out thing, it worked it the larger context and with the other supplementary material in said game.

And for an experimenter he sure did a lot to teach magic, interact with a lot of people, help his people, and had a lot of beliefs that seemed reasonable and didn't necessarily imply insanity. He did crazy stuff but it's nothing another sane person in the lore would have to be insane to do or think of. Mission oriented seems still a trait of his, I don't think he killed Nerevar single handedly just to see what would happen with the heart. Feels like he legit saw a chance to make things better at an extreme cost.

He's definitely an experimenter no doubt but Clockwork City alone is one project he clearly didn't abandon fully. Memory was a long term project. If we take ESO in account, his connection to dreugh and the ocean isn't something he tossed aside. The thing with Sotha Sil is he eventually became a guy who became more seclusive over time. TiS is early Tribunal history and up until 2920 he was still social, teaching kids, talking politics, and doing unfortunate meetings with daedra.

>>53455199
Each aspect of Almsivi takes on many symbolic roles.
Their appearance marks what they represent to the Velothi ethos regarding time. Almalexia is an image of the past, a motherly figure, symbolizing where the Dunmer came from. Vivec represents the present, the transition between the past of the Chimer, and the future that is the Dunmer, a dual representation of the two, and is likewise the most public figure. And finally Sotha Sil is the future, he represents the Dunmer as a new people, and the mystery of what is to come.

>>53460503
True, but take into account that even in things like 2920 and even prior to that, he was known to simply disappear for long amounts of time. He's secluded and introverted, that's always been his thing.

>TiS is early Tribunal history and up until 2920 he was still social, teaching kids, talking politics, and doing unfortunate meetings with daedra.
Technically he is still doing in ESO's time.
Also I'm not really sure TiS is really lacking in empathy. It lacks individuality, but half of it is about how Sotha Sil loves us and is going to integrate us into a giant GPU hivemind so Anu can play videogames and that's a good thing, and anyone who disagrees is wrong or not real.

>>53458051
>>53458136
There is nothing that substantiates Zurin as Renald. It's just some random thing people like to think is true.

What is true is that Renald was Versidue Shaie

>>53460592
>Technically he is still doing in ESO's time.

Then where the fuck is he?

>>53460610
Traveling.

Though the actual explanation is that Sotha Sil is central to ESO's post-Molag plot so they're saving him.

>>53460428
k

>>53460592
Oh yeah, he's a housebody. He likes staying at home but he does other stuff. TiS doesn't really emphasize empathy either. It's full of a dismissive love, that's definitely true at least. But it feels a lot less human than the Sotha Sil presented and I don't mean in-game and what NPCs think. I mean in stuff like where knowing more about Sotha wasn't a requirement and he still came off as a lot more than human than that. I'm willing to accept godhood changed him for the worst if 2920 and his actions up until his final disappearance into the Clockwork City didn't say otherwise.

Also with mission oriented I should probably specify it's not a soldier kinda of oriented, it's a ideological mission kind of thing. I feel like he acts towards greater goals adamantly. He'll abandon and experiment but it doesn't come off as his grand MO towards life.

>>53460756
>as his grand MO towards life.

Which is?

>>53460756
>But it feels a lot less human than the Sotha Sil presented and I don't mean in-game and what NPCs think.

I don't ever see Sotha Sil as that human though. Caring maybe, but Sotha Sil came off as even more of a mystery, even at his base level. He kind of has to be, given how alien the most basic stuff about him is.

>>53460797
>I don't ever see Sotha Sil as that human though.
I think that's the core difference for you and I is then. I feel he's pretty human but can functional almost like a mystical machine due to his focus on the grand mission of what he thinks is better for Nirn. I think his human side is very pronounced but his mind still functions like a machine in some regards. It's like being an introvert but still being social. To me he doesn't come off as too alien but that's me.

>>53460767
Heavily ideological and focused on the long term betterment of Nirn and it's people. He's a mixed bag of good times and shit behavior.

Explain ES fairies to me.

>>53460871
They're like goblins

>>53461005
>>53460871
Monsters?

>>53461035
No, goblins.

>>53460871
>>53461005
>>53461035
I like to think they're a lost branch of the Ehlnofey, something between the Aldmer and nature spirits like Spriggans.

>>53461059
>I like to think they're a lost branch of the Ehlnofey

Aren't all sentient/semi-sentient things on Nirn that?

>>53461121
Not the Hist.
But I meant it as something closer to their original forms. More attuned to magic and shit, more like actual spirits.

How do I stop being a lorelet?

>>53460476
>Aedra are planets

Nope.

He was right with both the 12 worlds and Aedra, Daedra, Magna Ge divisions.
It's just that all of the Aedra, Daedra and Magna Ge interacted so for example Azura became known as a Daedra despite being a former member of the Magna Ge and being wholly Anuic in nature or Trinimac gettin to know a Daedra with a vore fetish which led to him being the one responsibe for the change of the Orcs.


We can go further than this.

Each group of Ehlonfey in Nirn had their own Gods i.e. Aedric spirits they worshiped.
So taking into account that there aren't just 8 Aedra we can see that all of them at some point decided to rule over the mortals after they couldn't leave.

Then we come into the whole deal with the Altmer pantheon who ruled over the Elves and their battle with Lorkhan (Shor) who ruled over the Men.

Instead of being some creation myth it's in fact a real battle between different pantheons.

This theory still leaves enough wriggle room for the whole deal of Lorkhan tricking all the Aedra to descend into the mortal world.

Notice that in the lore books Aedra didn't pay a role in creation till about after Daggerfall.

>>53441427
Ash covers most of the actual tower.

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One of the most annoying things in Skyrim dungeons (yes there are lots of annoying things) was their fondness for making the leader wizard/bandit whoever insane. You go through the cave, finding journals, all detailing how someone came here to find some artifact, and slowly became crazy, and the journals all say cringey shit like
>They think I'm mad. Mad! I'll show them. I'll show them all!!
I swear to Azura this happened over half a dozen times. If ESO does this as well that would be reason enough for me not to buy it, especially if Sotha Sil becomes "le crazy man in search of power"

>>53461797
Sotha Sil was already a crazy man in search of power. He built a city out of discarded scraps.

>>53461797
The necrophiliac's descent into degeneracy was pretty good though.

It was like observing a /d/eviant sliding off further into darkness.

>>53461797
Madness tends to be a staple of wizards, look at the Telvanni

>>53461834
>>53461878
Eccentricity != insanity, especially in the elder scrolls where insanity is explicitly caused by Sheogorath

Anyone know of a decent way to make Morrowind work with a 360 controller? I know it's >casual, but my back is killing me lately and I don't wanna hunch over a mouse and keyboard if I don't have to.

>>53461878
Most Telvanni aren't insane. That's why the few who are are notable for it. And no, living in a mushroom tower isn't a sign of insanity.

>>53461797
What should bother you is how every time people are mysteriously killed along the road or a house is bloody or something went on an expedition it's falmer. It's always falmer.

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>>53441000
I'm going to spoiler this question due to horrible autism and Todd Howard levels of "lore" but:

How powerful can non-prince Daedra be, how 'independent' of the Princes can they get,
and most of all; can new daedric princes theoretically arise to fill in niches other Princes have not?

>>53461785
No, there is nothing that is "wholly Anuic in nature" besides Anu. Also, Meridia is the Get, not Azura.

>>53461956
OpenMW maybe?

>>53462171
Pretty powerful. There are all sorts of Dukes and Demiprinces and whatnot. Also, yeah, probably.

>>53462171
Daedra are nothing but et'ada. Princes are strong enough to be realms. There's ways for mortals to become as strong as a daedra and since daedra can change but not create it's a bit vague if they can follow the same routes of ascension as a mortal. If they can then even a scamp can go full Talos.

>>53462209
>Also, Meridia is the Get, not Azura.

Fudge. Didn't notice the mixup.

But yeah the whole Nirn creation myth is a clusterfuck of several different stories.

One with Alduin and infinite loop timelines, one with Anu and Phadomai, one with Aedra creating shit and shooting Shor with a bow.

>>53462318
Yup. And it's all really the same story happening at the same time. Everything with Anu/Padomay is upper level, previous Dream stuff.

>>53460871
lesser spirits

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What is there endgame?

>>53463397
>there

What if the dreamer wakes up?

Will he remember his great dream, and will his reassembled self have learned something from when it was fragmented into a myriad pieces?

>>53463885
There's nowhere for the dreamer to wake up to, he's in a state of complete sensory deprivation.
>wake me up inside
>can't wake up
>save meee

>>53463937
I've wondered, where does this interpretation come from?

>>53464079
The Loveletter I think.

>>53463885
The dreamer doesn't wake up

Just had a thought. Water is associated with memory. The dreugh are thought to come from a pasta kalpa, are sometimes called "altmer of the sea" and have a feral land form. Now, what if the dreugh were originaly a normal beast (like trolls) that had a land-water life cycle, but when they submerge, the memory from the past kalpa alters their form to that we know: a misture of mer and beast.

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>>53464267
>The dreugh are thought to come from a pasta kalpa

>>53464267
>literaly the ghost in the shell

>>53464267
Here's some more information:
>...and these are warnings older than the Inner Sea, heeded by the wise, who have seen the coeval crawl forth from the untrustworthy oceans time and time, as from the sediment-memory, warnings older than even the West itself, which was not West yet but the left lung of Aurbis and Old Ehlnofey, alike as during the first of the Altmeri formwars, when as glorious dreughs we fell on the meatmerchants of Thras like loss to split their immutables and render their rude- walking slow, into faces tracing back into misdesigned corals and sandplay...
- How Beautiful You Are That You Do Not Join Us

>...and he listed his bloodline in the Ayleidoon and spoke of his father, a god of the [previous kalpa's] World-River...
- The Song of Pelinal, v7

>...the Mundex Terrene was once ruled over solely by the tyrant dreugh-kings, each to their own dominion, and borderwars fought between their slave oceans. They were akin to the time-totems of old, yet evil, and full of mockery and profane powers. No one that lived did so outside of the sufferance of the dreughs.
- Commentaries on the Mysterium Xarxes Book Four

>>53464455
>They were akin to the time-totems of old, yet evil, and full of mockery and profane powers
In other words, dragons.

>>53464539
Yup. Probably/possibly the other Atmoran deities as well, the kind of language you see in "Shor, Son of Shor". It's a lot of information to take in.

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>>53464348
Hue.

Hey lads. Um, this is an odd question....but what character goals should I give my character as a thief in skyrim? As a way to help spice up this playthrough, and add some flavor I mean. Or if that's too vague, maybe how should I go about character goals? Cheers!

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>>53441000
Got some bad news for you.

>>53447316
I actually like the ancient Nord towers, very cozy inside if you ignore the fucking snow clipping through the walls.

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>>53464756

>>53454190
Aren't the question marks in that diagram Tosh Raka, Peryite and Hermaeus Mora?

>>53464727
Break into peoples' homes. Find the item(s) you suspect to be most dear to them, or most connected of their character. Steal it. Decorate your own house with it. It's yours now. For full autism, leave a calling card.

In all honesty, I rarely start with character goals, I just kind of come up with a backstory and a character (preferences, ideals, beliefs), and start reacting to the world. Goals sort of rise out of that.

Really, Skyrim isn't that good for roleplaying thieves. Few videogames are.

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>>53461974
>What should bother you is how every time people are mysteriously killed along the road or a house is bloody or something went on an expedition it's falmer. It's always falmer.
I quite like that actually. Falmer are weird underground creatures that snatch people out of their homes and nobody's really sure if they exist, but they're crawling all over in skyrim's underground.

>>53462240
>>53462295
Are there any specific powerful non-prince daedra in the lore? All I can think of is Vernaccus and Sheogorath's Weredaedroth.

>>53465011
Demi-princes like Fa-Nuit-Hen.

>>53463937
>>53464258
Such cases. I see, thanks.

>>53464348
Is there pasta in Nirn?

>>53465120
I imagine there is, in Colovia.

>>53465011
Fa-Nuit-Hen, as mentioned, the other Barons of Move Like This, Duke of Scamps Kh-Utta. There are probably others.

>>53465011
>>53465139
I like to treat the Barons of Move-Like-Whis as a lore justification for the diagonal speedboost error in coding.

>>53465120
Some deep lore shit right here.

A quick search reveals that noodles are a thing in ESO, but the closest I can get other than that is something Sheo said:
>"Aren't you precious? Do you really not know? Haven't you noodled it all through yet? Because He is Me! I'm Him! We're a bit of each other, really. I won't be here when He arrives, because I'll be Him. Happens every time. The Greymarch starts, Order appears, and I become Jyggalag and wipe out My whole Realm."
>noodled
But then again, it's Sheo.

If you want to go real fucking obscure, an insane Daedra from Battlespire also uses the word:
https://youtu.be/ttwWB2r4wGk?t=1470

>>53465125
>not nibenese noodles

>>53465120
Lasagna is a common delicacy in Tamriel

>>53465422
It's especially appreciated in Elsweyr.

>>53465451
You fucker.

>>53464938

the graphics on that lava looks more primitive than vanilla morrowind desu

>>53446092
Why are they white?

>>53446819
Not really, but /pol/ likes them and thus projects ancap rhetoric into a fantasy game.

>>53465519
for some reason stormfront really likes skyrim
probably because the politics lack depth of any kind
but they're really torn between whether the thalmor or the stormcloaks are more like nazis and thus /theirguys/

IMO Ulfric is just an opportunist so it's idiotic to project any ideology on him.

>>53448337
Andre Maul's Tower is the best, but I always feel bad about killing him.

If only there was a good wizard tower and a way to Divine Intervention to Caldera from it. I suppose Ald'rhun is good enough for teleportation.

>>53451580
The Telvanni slavemaster mentions that Bosmer are considered the least of the elves.

Nobles say they are savages, but spiritually alive.

>>53465451
I hate Morndas.

>>53464348
You fear Red Mountain? You should fear the Red Sea. Tomato Sauce fill your lungs, mortal! I'll season my noodles with your kin.

>>53465764
>hairy chested dreughs yell at each other in wife beaters while raising their claws over their chef hats, declaring how they've had it up to here with their friend and his refusal to apply olive oil to his claws

So the idea of there being a dreaming Godhead is more on the figurative rather than literal side, right? Like there's not actually some person literally sleeping and TES is simply part of his sleep or coma?

>>53465869
Yes and no. No in that it is, for all intents and purposes, a metaphor, and yes in that there actual is a being "dreaming" the world (though it's not a person necessarily (it's Anu)).

>>53465869
It could be considered a parallel to Ashtaroth from the Cthulhu mythos - the blind idiot god, who dreams reality into existing.

>>53465925
Ah, okay. That makes sense, then.

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>>53464267
>come from a pasta kalpa

When Masser hits your eye like a big shepherd's pie, that's a kalpa!

When old Jone starts to shine like you've had too much wine, that's a kalpa!

>>53465981
>Dreugh Martin

>>53465764
When I die, I want to drown in tomato sauce. It just seems right.

>>53465925
There's several religious concepts that are arguably related:
>Svayam Bhagavān (Sanskrit: svayam bhagavān, lit."The Lord Himself") is a Sanskrit theological term for the concept of absolute representation of God as Bhagavan. He is the one eternal Supreme Being called Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva and Trimurti.
>The theological interpretation of svayam bhagavān differs with each tradition and the literal translation of the term has been understood in several distinct ways. Translated from the Sanskrit language, the term literally means "Bhagavan Himself" or "directly Bhagavan". Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition often translates it within its perspective as primeval Lord or original Personality of Godhead, but also considers the terms such as Supreme Personality of Godhead and Supreme God as an equivalent to the term Svayam Bhagavan, and may also choose to apply these terms to Vishnu, Narayana and many of their associated avatars.

Also it's Azathoth.

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Speaking of actual morrowind online, TES3MP is going great. We killed Almalexia by punching her to death and got two hopesfires out of it.

>>53466688
Multiplayer Morrowind is perfect for my ERP sessions. I play as an experienced Mage's Guild dunmer woman in a dwemer dungeon. Suddenly a dwemer spider grasps onto my large ass.

>No, my butt isn't an ore deposit!

I scream as it sends its sensory rod into my deep regions. Mechanical earnest becomes fleshy pleasure as my mind races towards the idea of giving birth to a metallic spider horde. I've been fucked that senselessly. But oh no I forgot the dwemer spider is oozing its corrosive acid to destroy rock but into my womb! I panic as I now have to release its arachnid mating grasp from my rear or else feel my stomach collapse in acidic overload. I manage to magic him off and destroy him but now I must finish myself off. Oh my there were other players here the whole time? How extra naughty.

>>53466800
You may legitimately have autism.

>>53466800
This is what naked nords have to deal with

>>53466688
>wanna touch swords

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So, this is a thing:
https://youtu.be/btXppkxGrLo
https://github.com/afritz1/OpenTESArena

>>53466800
>browsing /tg/
>open /tgesg/
>"oh hey, apparently there's a multiplayer morrowind mod...
>read this post
i think i'll stick to singleplayer

>>53467753
Back when I used to play MMOs, i always got a giggle out of heckling and ruining ERP, so that might just make it better.

>>53466688
How many players will it eventually support?
Is it intended to be played like a co-op game, or would it be possible to run it more like a open server? My dream would be some kind of Neverwinter Nights-style persistent world server, but that's probably unfeasible, or at the very least complicated.
I would probably also be broken and incredibly dumb, but that's half the charm.

>>53467968
>How many players will it eventually support?
As many as you can handle.

>Is it intended to be played like a co-op game, or would it be possible to run it more like a open server?
It can do either really.

>>53467993
Well, in that case I'm very much interested.
Maybe I'll bully some of my casu-el friends into playing this with me. I suspect one or two of them are autistic enough to play this with me.

It would also be fun to see what a open server would descend into, as soon as enough player characters are let loose within it.

>>53468048
That's already happened. I want you to imagine just Fargoth heads floating in the sky while tons of Vivecs walk around, and that'd get things about accurate.

>>53468048
Imagine the pure autism concentrated from all the people willing to try it, super-condensed into a giant vivec with what is apparently a labia piercing.

>>53457876
So what exactly does he say? He starets drinking the Altmer nihilistic coolaid?

>>53468248
Nope. He basically says fuck you to all of them, the closest thing he comes towards is Marukh's beliefs.

I always have such a hard time leveling in Morrowind. It seems like I'm too low-level to handle the faction quests I'm given, and the ones I can handle don't give enough experience to level me up.

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https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/6dkx81/to_what_extent_is_aleister_crowley_an_influence/

>daily reminder that because of mk the lore has references to the works of a communist satanist

Since we're on the topic of games,
how well does dgdr and sse go with companions,
like julan? I'd like to try starting them but I'm unsure if it would be too easy/break something if I had a follower with me

>>53461974

the falmer will conquer skyrim soon

>>53468296
Fuckin' cool as shit.

>>53468296
You forgot bisexual, scat-fetishist, wife-beater, and mountaineer.

>>53468339
What about those middle two?

>>53468339
okay so bisexual is whatever
scat fetishist is, uh, wow
wife-beater, now that's an issue

but fuckin
WHY did you put MOUNTAINEER in there

like goddamn, the nigga's a hiker, how could anyone ever take him seriously

>>53468407

not the kind of mountaineering you think

>>53443071
The Direnni Tower has some great lore behind it, even if it's rather less spectacular if you look at it in Daggerfall, and in ESO it's a copy of the White-Gold Tower (I know the latter is technically a copy of it, but you'd think it'd be a little more distinct).

>>53468442
Then what kind is it?

>>53446903
Isn't the Dominion pretty mysterious in-universe? At best they're a mer reflection of the Empire, as far as some are concerned. It might be different in areas directly under their control, but in Skyrim we only get a look at their secret police and forward bases, with most people - Stormcloak and Imperial - knowing little of the Dominion beyond the embarrassing White-Gold Concoradat and generally disliking them.

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>>53468442

>>53468442
What other kind is there
Is this some black slang shit where the definition of a word is arbitrarily made up to suit the situation

>>53468489
oh goddammit that wasn't the picture i meant to post

>>53468442
what the fuck are you going on about

>>53468296
It's great, right?

There's even small references, like Fa-Nuit-Hen's name being an obvious reference to the Thelemic Nuit, and the name is also very reminiscent of Crowley's composite deity Ra-Hoor-Khuit.
Which, now that I think of it, could be an interesting connection to explored. I'll have to reread the Liber AL vel Legis and do some more research here once I've gotten some sleep.

Some quick text parallels would be between Liber AL vel Legis and the Sermons (the Liber even ends with "The ending of the words is the Word Abrahadabra"), and the between the Book of Lies and MK's Commentaries (as noted in the link you posted). They aren't 1-to-1, or even overtly similar, but the inspiration is clear.

Also, since we're on the topic of cool shit, and I know people here like fun fictional metaphysics and gods (I know several others here like Glorantha), I can recommend Lord Dunsany's "The Gods of Pegāna" as a nice and quick read. Try to get it with Sidney Sime's illustrations.
It's easy to pilfer for cool shit for your own settings, or just to read for fun.

>>53468451
I really wish they'd do the Direnni Tower as a two-layer thing. Ada-Mantia itself at the core, and then centuries of Direnni buildings built around/into it, making it a complete tower complex.

>>53468506
But that picture is excellent.

>>53468526
>Ada-Mantia itself at the core, and then centuries of Direnni buildings built around/into it, making it a complete tower complex.
That's kind of what it is though, the real Ada-Mantia is just a giant metal bolt sticking from the earth,

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>>53448102
Not trying to hate, but it's an uncomfortable feeling for me. It's like finding out a guy - a well-known guy, sure, but still just one of the people you knew - and his opinions were suddenly going to get held over yours on everything, more than any of the other opinions of all the other guys. I don't even know if his opinions differ from me at all (but they obviously have to on some degree) or where and how they might or might not be included, but it's a scary thought in a way.

>>53468720
he's been a part of the community since morrowind, he's an incredibly prolific mod-maker, he's friends with people at Beth, and he's just an all-around good writer. What do you want? Have -you- written about any of your ideas?

>>53468765
I'm not really sure how you could have missed the point any harder.

>>53453374
Trinimac was an et'Ada, he wasn't an Aedra. I thought that was some sort of undecided spirit of sorts.

>>53468720
>and his opinions were suddenly going to get held over yours on everything

Yeah but that's how everything works.

>>53468770
I get the point, but unless you're another modmaker, Trainwiz isn't some guy you knew. It's awfully presumptuous of you to think that your ideas are on the same level as his. What mods have you made, anon?

>>53468810
>I get the point

>but unless you're another modmaker
>What mods have you made

>I get the point

No, no you don't.

>>53458509
>only later still, that he was under instruction by a pig

Who is the pig?! I have to know.

>>53468526
I'll plus that recc on Pegana.

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>>53461974
I like it when I think about it and chuckle to myself that the falmer are basically the fey. Otherwise, I just don't really like the falmer all that much. They don't really interest me compared to the Ayleids - the Falmer are a mysterious fallen race of the past with some potential for the future, even if a scary one to those inhabiting Tamriel today, but the Ayleids are a fascinating fallen race with a seemingly complex culture that left an indelible mark on Cyrodiil.

Even what little tidbits of lore Oblivion gives - and it's really the only game that included them at all, even if just for the sake of Oblivion itself - is fascinating. Entire cities, unique relationships with Aedra and Daedra both, a powerful elven empire in the heartland of Tamriel that somehow didn't seem to have strong relations with other powers...and a lot of questions are obviously left unanswered, chief among them 'are they birds?'

Kind of makes me wonder why people like the Falmer at all, when I think about it. We know essentially nothing about them, whereas the Heartland High Elves have so many interesting things to puzzle over.

>>53468787
>Trinimac was an et'Ada, he wasn't an Aedra
Trinimac was Aedra, he is one of the Aldmeri ancestor spirits.

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>>53468810
Again, I'm not trying to hate on Trainwiz - he's never been dickish or strutting about his position, he's been very helpful with learning about lore even outside his own work - but I think the fact that he is a modmaker doesn't necessarily elevate him any higher than another TES fan. A lot of people make mods and write their own ideas, as 'part of the community.' Think of it as IS and IS NOT - canon and non-canon. Mods can be cool and all, but they are fanworks and not really considered canon unto themselves, and are generally all grouped under the non-canon label, from the well made expansions to the breast physics mods.

Trainwiz is a big part of the community, but he's still part of the IS NOT - or more correctly, was - but now suddenly he IS. Does that make any sense? He has gone from not-canon, like me, like anyone else who wasn't a developer or a writer of lore, to canon. I wish him well and hope I can swallow my worries, but fuck, how is it not weird or scary to you that the equivalent of your next-door neighbor is suddenly given power and legitimacy none of your neighbors ever could have possibly had?

>>53469072
Well said.