EDH/Commander General

>>53432288
Partners because Ludevic exists.

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>>53432288
Commanders that do things from the command zone were a mistake. As we're ones that benefit from their tax, like Prossh.

I'm sad O-Kagachi is so shitty. I just wanted a synergistic 5 color Spirit Commander. Instead I got a shitty Krond.

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>Intet Dragon Tribal was the first EDH deck I built from scratch
>Now C17 Dragon tribal
I really hate to have two decks that are the same tribe, but I also don't want to take apart Intet.

What am I to do?

>>53432581
just buy singles lol, get the best of both,
wait for all the good cards to be spoiled than crush babies running the out the box Ur-Dragon deck

Is Oloro the only commander that's able to do something while in the command-zone?

>already have Atraxa and Kaalia commander
>now strongly feel like building Dragons
My wallet is not ready for this.

>>53432288
Commander 2016 generally[/spolier]

>>53432694
well, yea, but all 2013 commanders do something related to the command zone, mostly just do something when you cast it from the command zone that improves the more you cast it.

>you can alter the game with your commander without ever playing your commander

super lame if you ask me

>What is the biggest cancer in the design of Commander products? And why is it bottom-up legend design?

Commanders that somehow benefit from their tax, or avoid it altogether, or still have an observable effect upon the game are the most cancerous design Commander products have had so far. As for most poorly designed I feel like Lieutenant cards end up being shitty Timmy cards that are over-costed for their effect, under-costed when they pay off, and generally shittier versions of cards you'd want to run in the 99 anyways.

>>53432288
Alright what do you guys think the other tribes are going to be

God I hope it's not Elves

>>53432837
I'd really like lieutenant to be done better. It's a cool concept but poorly executed (like most things WotC do).

>>53432853
scarecrows

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>>53432288
>Thread Question
Keyword soup

>>53432853
If they're all 5 color decks:
Slivers, Humans, Elementals

If they're colors that make sense for the tribes, and the typical tribes Wizards is likely to go with:
Any 3 of: Elves (G or BG), Merfolk (U), Goblins (R, RG, BR, Jund), Zombies (B, UB, Esper), Wizards (U or UR)

If they're colors that make sense for the tribes and not those above (as in I actually want this section to be real):
Angels (W or WBR), Knights (WBR), Sphinx (U or Esper)

So Far into the realm of impossibility it'll literally Never happen but that doesn't stop me from wanting it anyway:
Fox (W), Hound (W or GW)

>>53432853
I'm hoping Fairies with a Wizard/Rogue sub theme, but we'll see.

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>tfw playing for the first time in over a month this weekend

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SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS

Are they real?

Thoughts?

>>53432887
>if they're all 5 color decks
Please stop this meme. It's insensitive to those of us who had to witness last year's 4-color mana base.

>>53432953
>Are they real?

If it has new art, it's real. You should know this by now.

>>53432953
Old news, already posted literally the minute they were spoiled... several hours ago.
They're real as far as anyone knows.

>>53432965
i painted them myself that's why they are new

>>53432953
>Ramos
Holy shit, that's one hell of a callback.

Also I really hope we get another legendary with Prowess. I fucking love that keyword.

>>53432953
only good one is the ur-dragon

1 mana cheaper dragon spells that the opponent can't remove

>>53432988
Well it's supposed to be an evergreen word now.

it'll take a few years before it really enters the design with full force, I suppose.

But yea, Prowess is fucking sweet.

>>53433002
>9CMC
>5 colors
Sure, it's good if you can ever cast it

>>53433002
How aren't Ramos and Taigam good?

>>53432953

Yes. Because:
A. O-Kagachi and Ramos
B. O-Kagachi is completely underwhelming

>>53433043
i should've added: apart from the outright obvious good ones

but none of them are as good as the ur-dragon, thats why he's the main commander in the dragon tribal deck

>>53432953
Man, O-Kagachi is crazy bad. Even more so if you enjoy Kamigawa lore. Did they completely forget about divinity counters?

>>53433043

It pisses me off that Taigam isn't Jeskai colored.

>>53433066
Wizards' design ideas basically come from "What's the opposite of Kamigawa? Let's do that!"

>>53433073
It would be good, but to be honest, I prefer 2-colors then 3, so I'm perfectly fine with Azorius Spellslinger.

is it possible to play a commander with no basic lands?

>>53433094
Yep. Colorless decks had to do this before Wastes came around in Oath of the Gatewatch.

A Ruination completely fucked their life up.

>>53433094
Considering people played Karn, Silver Golem and Eldrazi Titan decks long before Wastes were a thing, obviously yes.

>>53433094
It's more than possible, some people do it.

This is why Ruinate is one of my favorite cards.

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>>53432953
>all these throwbacks
Never thought I'd see the day Wasitora and Ramos got their own cards.

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I made a quick list for a 5 color spirit shenanigans deck with pic related.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/o-kagachi-sketch/


It can get pretty nuts with the the spirits that bounce themselves and Urza's Incubator. Very casual but I like the way it played out when goldfishing. Still pretty dissapointed in how O-Kagachi turned out though.

GUYS

WHAT IF PHYREXIANS ARE A TRIBE

WHAT IF GIX FINALLY GETS A CARD

>>53433073

Doesn't make sense for him to be Jeskai in either timeline. He joined the the Sultai in the OG timeline because "Fuck enlightenment, I want power!" and he's a zealous jackboot thug in the Dragons timeline.

>>53433213
Haven't you learned after Ludevic and O-Kagachi?
Any over-hyped lore figure that gets a card is guarenteed to be shit.
This is exactly the reason that I no longer want a Serra Planeswalker card, and in fact I want them to never make a card for her.

>>53433232
>implying players clamor for Gix like they did for Ludevic

But yeah the O-Kagachi card is worrying

>>53433254
They do. Gix has a sizable fanbase.

>wotc realized weak commander decks can't do shit to anyone with a half decent deck
>releases a bunch of moderately tuned decks without mana bases
>the best one was immediately scalped into oblivion
Hmm, I wonder what's going to happen with the new decks. There's a reason wizards doesn't throw fetch lands into every precon. I'm just happy they acknowledged that EDH'S main player base is singleton legacy lite.

>>53433327
>>the best one was immediately scalped into oblivion
Which, Breya?

>>53433340

Atraxa primarily although Breya and Yddris got scalped pretty hard, too.

>>53433340
Atraxa. Out of the box it was basically a tuned Ghave deck featuring deepglow skate and grip of phyresis. I took all the blue out of mine for simplicity and it's the skeleton of an incredibly powerful Ghave deck.

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>tfw not playing with group for month since away for work

Is online EDH fun or is it full of Spikes?

>>53433381
It's alright as long as you specify no infinites / mass land destruction.

>>53433381
Everything is terrible online because there is no real human interaction. People are inherently self maximizing, so expect that in the form of unlimited budget.

>>53432534
Benefiting from commander tax is a good concept, it was just executed poorly with Prossh.
Derevi and Oloro are the true culprits.

>>53432953
So how to Jund Cat Dragon?
Voltron with sack subtheme?

>>53433381
Online EDH is good for finding friends who you can't meet IRL. I work night shifts so I can't meet up with people at normal times, but I've got a bunch of Euro friends who I can play with online.

>>53433489
I think the funniest part is that Marath was absolutely the most broken, but then they errata'd it and now no one gives a shit because Naya is awful.

>>53433592
don't bully color combinations

>>53433692
Without being a one card infinite token generator Marath is the worst of his batch.

>>53433728
In what context?

Outside of cutthroat nonsense, Marath is a powerful and versatile commander, probably much better than Oloro or non-foodchain prosh. Naya is better than Jund for making powerful interesting decks, its just that at a cutthroat level combat and simple removal isn't as relevant outside of swinging for the game.

>>53432953

I think I like Taigam as a Commander. A little bit of a bummer he doesn't have Prowess, though.

>>53433856
>Outside of cutthroat
What a pointless fucking statement. You can't make comparisons unless both decks are being played to their fullest.

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>>53432288
i hate when cards are made specifically for commander, it stifles deckbuilding and special snowflakeness because they are always a best in slot over another card. i also beleives it ruins the entire point of edh, its suppose to utilize bulk/obscure/fun cards that have no place in other formats also the reason why i think a banlist in edh is dumb

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>>53433910
Prowess is a Jeskai keyword, none of the Ojutai have prowess since the dragonlord erased all traces of the Jeskai past.

>>53433915
Said nobody ever. There are like 5 relevant decks if those are your parameters, and we'd have an incredibly boring general if anyone thought that had any merit.

>>53433956

shoo, shoo lore goblin.

>Have had Scion EDH for almost 8 years
>Literally my signature deck in all my groups
>Has only slowly gotten better, especially with Mirrodin 2 and the Fate Reforged dragons
>Wizards now prints 5 color dragons as a precon, but instead of printing actually boss ass new tribal dragons, they just reprint the Fate dragons and make a bunch of old story characters non tribal garbage

At least finally turning Scion into the actual ur-dragon will be a neat way to do 10 commander damage and draw one card.

Ramos could be a neat commander though.

>O-Kagachi isn't a lord for spirits
>O-Kagachi is terrible
>O-Kagachi only exiles one thing at a time and isn't a nuke machine when the ONLY CARD he was featured in is literally "exile all creatures"
Yep this is made by Wizards alright

>>53433967
I never said you can only play cutthroat, I said you can't compare two decks for power if you're not playing cutthroat. It's like saying Usain Bolt isn't the fastest man alive because your buddy Frank beat him in a race while Bolt was asleep.

>>53433381
I actually play EDH on MTGO regularly and it's pretty alright. I'd say most people have the right mindset and don't try to break the game. I'd say one out of every 10 people is a tryhard and they usually they become the immediate target.

>>53434047
>O-Kagachi isn't a lord for spirits
Why the fuck would they care about some tribal spirit shit?

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>>53433984

Unfortunately for you, pic related re: >>53433956

>>53434047
I mean I'm more upset that a big squid is supposedly stronger than the lord of all spirits whose presence literally tears apart the plane.

>>53434070
Why would they print O-Kagachi as part of the Dragon Tribal set, either?

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>>53433956

Would Marath be worth running in the 99 of Ramos as he gives Ramos 3 counters and then can add another 3 for 3 mana?

>>53434049
No, it's like saying your buddy Frank is pretty good at running and could probably compete in his local state championship, with you going "NUH UH HE'S NOT USAIN BOLT HE'S FUCKING GARBAGE"

>>53434144

I know we like to blame Sarkhan for New Tarkir, but Bolas is to blame. If he hadn't attacked and nearly killed Ugin, Sarkhan never would have traveled through time and the dragon storms wouldn't have gotten so strong that humanity came under Draconic control, instead maintaining a balance between humanity and dragons. Hell, we may have gotten dragons integrated into the Wedges. Maybe we will in Rebels of Tarkir.

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>>53432953
>Ramos, Dragon Engine

>>53434262
>Marath is worse than Jeleva, Derevi, Oloro, or Prossh
>Nuh uh, just cripple Oloro or Derevi and he's better

>>53434390
"Marath is worst of the batch" isn't what I*m trying to refute, it's "you can't make comparisons" which is fucking stupid

>>53434390
i would say jeleva is the worst of the batch. the rest of the decks use their commander to some degree. oloro gives a steady trickle of life gain at the minimum. jeleva's deck is "pretend i dont have a commander until literally everything that can go wrong does go wrong then hope jeleva can steal a bomb from my opponents as my very last resort"

you could run literally any grixis commander over jeleva, and jeleva storm would be the same deck.

>>53434070
Maybe because he is literally the god king of all kamigawa spirits

Anyone got any secret tech for Brago? I've got the usual suspects like Strionic Resonator, Reality Acid, O-Ring cards, etc. but was wondering if anyone had anything spicy.

>>53432288
>What is the biggest cancer in the design of Commander products?
Effects from the command zone hands down

>>53433134
>Wasitora
Was it always a cat dragon?

>>53434625
Your in luck, I have a super spicy Brago deck. I recommend Palace Jailer, exclusion ritual, rout and linvala, but if you want jabbering abomination spicy throw in doubling cube, every rock you can find and run a bunch of X cost spells, then artifact your way to the bank.

>>53434740
Yes, it was always Nekoru. Neko =cat, ru=ryu=dragon.

I wanna do some Infect Weenies shit with Sidar Kondo, because I'm an asshole and my group really likes Turn Creatures Sideways.dec so I figured I'd join in. Who's the best Partner for him that fits with this strategy?

>>53432953
Can't we just get a commander with Rampage outside of Teeka's Dragon?

>>53434756
>Palace Jailer
That's perfect. Monarch fits in with the kind of flavor I was going for too.

>>53434768
Vial-Smasher

Fuckers need haste via red, and black has tons of Infect stuff. Big finishers like Overrun effects can make for some good hits from Vial-Smasher too

>>53434768
Silas Renn so that you can
a) have 4 colors to choose from
b) swing freely with Silas
c) recur infect artifacts

>>53434768
I'd say Tana is an obvious choice, but I don't like having both my partners with the same CMC.

Tymna would draw you tons of cards which is obviously great. Ludevic, despite his meme status, gets you blue and red and goads people into attacking each other.

So, Ramos is a 5 color artifact Commander, right? By that I mean, even though it's an artifact/colorless I can have cards from all colors using him, correct?

That's really cool.

>>53434959
Yeah. Dude can literally just dump 10 free mana into X spellssssss fuck he's going to be so nuts.

>>53434966
>Dude can literally just dump 10 free mana into X spellssssss
Oh God you're right.

Also Storm. The possibilities for slow shitty Storm shenanigans seem bananas

>>53434959
Yes, it used to be that only colors in a creature's casting cost defined its color identity, but then with things like Memnarch it was changed to all mana symbols in its card text.

>>53434966
You can literally kill a player on the spot with him on turn 5 using Door to Nothingness by using mana rocks and Transguild Courier.
Fucking hilarious.

>>53435003
That's magnificent

I might have to adopt the Legacy There's the Door deck for EDH

>>53435021
Yeah, he's going to be pretty fucking sweet. Also just realized that it's a Turn 4 kill, in Magic Wonderland with the perfect hand at least.
>T1: Land, Sol Ring, Mind Stone
>T2: Land 2, Thran Dynamo, Power Stone
>T3: Land 3, Door to Nothingness, 5 mana to spare for Apostle's Blessing and similar protection spells, depending what colors your lands were
>T4: Ramos, Transguild Courier, opponent loses game

>>53432581
This is a glorious day for my Big CMC deck.

Not only does it affect my deck from the command zone, it also plays them for free when I attack.

Progenitus is getting moved into the deck instead.

>>53435079
Also Ramos is going to be fucking great.

Anybody got some dumb spicy tech for a Merieke Ri Berit deck that is essentially playing untap/flicker tribal?

I finally built a Borborygmos Enraged deck

Oh my God this rules so much

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>>53435186
Get it in German.

>>53435233
>Zyklop
Brilliant

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what's your favorite art flavor?

>>53434442
Are you dumb? Jeleva is free storm count.

>>53435289
I really like the newer artwork. Things seem to pop more and there's more space for subtle detailing. Compare old Hanna to new Hanna, where there's all sorts of gadgets on her desk.

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>>53435162
>>53435001
>>53434995

He's so weird as a Commander. Ramos rewards playing colored spells, so you'll probably won't be heavy on (colorless) artifacts, and will probably try to cram a few more golden cards than usual.

My first impression is that a spell-slinging, storm-ish deck is probably the way to go: The extra 10 mana could allow one reach lethal storm count easier, while still having access to all 5 colors.

Another goofier option would be a weenie deck with a bunch of hybrid mana and golden creatures.

>>53435297
Yea, the DECK around jeleva is the best. but the commander itself is pretty bad

>>53435406
I mostly see him as a mana converter on a stick. Just dump a bunch of counters on him and use him to fix all of your mana fixing needs and ramp the fuck away by cheating those counters on him pretty much as he enters play.

>>53433956
If I knew you irl I would punch you in your dick every time I saw you.

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>threw together a Melek deck
>it's way more fun than expected
Where can one take this commander? Right now it's something of a storm deck (Mind's Desire, Time Spiral, High Tide, Empty the Warrens, etc.) with a handful of spell-loving critters like Kiln Fiend. Surely there are ways to spice things up a bit.

>>53435621

Where's the deck list?

Cards like Soothsaying, Scroll Rack and Sensei's Divining Top make his ability much more reliable.

Melek is kind of slow to get going, and gets the most value copying powerful instant/sorcery spells. I would try to get some decent ramp through artifacts and cost reducing creatures like Baral and Goblin Electromancer and Mizzix the first few turns, instead of playing "weenies" like Monastery Mentor or Kiln Fiend.

>>53435428
I'm gonna build it. It's 5 color that won't be child, Dragon tribal or progenitus

>>53435621
>>53435621
My Melek deck was Gigantic_Fireballs.dec, before I split it up into Wort and Dralnu

What are some good cards to give rebound in taigam? I'm excited for him since I always wish dragons narset was a legendary creature instead of a walker for that rebound effect. Right now I mainly have extra turns that don't exile themselves.

>>53434966
Cast Conflux - grab Manamorphose, Omniscience and any 3 card combo. Ramos seems like fun.

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http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/sad-machine/

I'm running a Voltron/Stax-y deck, and while it was fun for a while, my playgroup is becoming more competitive. So what do I take out for a Grafted Exoskeleton? Eater of Days? Veilstone Amulet? Orb of Dreams? A card I'm not noticing entirely? I need a fast, clean damage and oppression machine, and what I've got so far just isn't gonna cut it, anymore.

>>53436060
Yeah, Extra turns is where to start. He can go infinite with an extra turn and two of Call to Mind, Deja Vu, Relearn, and Sage's Knowledge. Mystical Tutor is sadly a little weak as you need to generate a draw or your first find will be shuffled back, but with enough cantrips that shouldn't be TOO hard

How do I improve my threat assessment?

I often have answers but I don't know when to cast so I don't get fucked by another player in the end

>>53436230
Kindve ironic the guy who only become a master because the time line got fucked is good with cards like temporal distortion.

>>53435621
If you cast Mind's Desire with him on the battlefield does that mean you basically cast your whole deck?

>>53436209
You might want to consider Hero's Blade.

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>>53436310
he who draws the most cards is he who wins

So I've built a Bant deck with the express purpose of playing lands, animating them, then casting things like mass polymorph to bring in bigass creatures (avacyn, Iona, eldrazi Titans, the works).

I'm also looking to add effects to make the lands themselves more potent. What are some good buffs for going wide in these colors? And for trample? The biggest drawback being they can't be creature based, so to maintain the deck's subtheme.

Also, holy fuck it's hard building something no one else has. But it's fun as hell

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>>53432694
Well, derevi has an activated ability that functions from the command zone. All other 3 just get modified somehow with casting and benefit from multiple casts.
2017 seem to give us commanders that cheapen the creature types from the zone.

2013 commanders were a mistake and seems like Wizards didn't learn from their mistake.

>>53436403
It sounds like you're building some kind of a Jolrael, Empress of Beasts deck combined with a Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper deck.
So try searching edhrec for those two I guess?

>>53436342
Copying a card with storm doesn't copy storm.

>>53436342
>>53436483
To put it more clearly, Storm is an "as you cast this spell" ability, and copies that are created on the stack (Melek, Fork, etc) are not cast at all, so Storm or other "when you cast ~ do thing" abilities on the copies won't trigger.

>>53436359
Anime just started looking progressively worse, wow.

So I decided to kill off my Brion deck for good due to repeatable inconsistencies. It's gonna be a Feldon deck now.

However, I still want a Boros deck because I'm stubborn as shit. What's a general that doesn't have a lot of overlap with the following Commanders I currently play:
>Samut (Aggro Swords Big Dudes)
>Daxos (Enchantment Tokens)
>Titania (Aggro Rush)
>Kyainos and Tiro (Enchantress Combo)
>Gonti (Steal Stuff MBC)
>Ishai+Bruse (Voltron Control)
>Arjun (Artifacts)

>>53436505
>>53436483
Worth mentioning that each card Mind's Desire hits DOES increase the storm count, and if it hits another storm card, that will trigger storm.

So if you manage to cast it again, you'll get hillarious results.

>>53436601
Shit, and also I play Queen Marchesa (Group Slug)

>>53436587
90s looks the best, prove me wrong

>>53436642
90s is good, but I prefer the rougher look of the 80s and the huge eyes in the 90s aren't my thing.

>>53435406
Don't have to do fancy things with gold cards, just make a +1/+1 counters deck. Corpsejack, Forgotten Ancient, Doubling Season, Kalonian Hydra, etc

>>53435289
I found out about Evacuation's seventh edition art and I'm quite fond of it.

Also the original Triskelion is cute but deadly.

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>>53435289
One of the first decks I ever made was based on Sun Titan and Animate Dead/Necromancy shenanigans.

I am begging for sultai fairies in this new commander set. I once had a mighty $$$ fairies deck for modern with vendi' and must binds and such, to have that back with a ton of edh-pushed fairies, I've got to have it. I think it might, they promised to never return to Lorwyn for a set, and since they've been giving us bits every now and then so we don't kill ourselves.

>>53436834
Why bother going Sultai? There's like 12 green Fae

Wasitora and the Legion of Doom.
Black daretti, Xenagos, Vraska, black Garruk, the 2 good Chandra's and arlinn. With a hard boardcontrol and X burn base.

>>53436891
Well if they do make it sultai, they will have created more green faeries along with the other new cards in the deck. Sultai because if they're making new faeries why not sultai?

>>53436891
Maybe they really want to play Willow Priestess.

>>53436933
>the 2 good Chandra's
Gonna have to be more specific. Torch and what. Flamecaller? Firebrand?

>>53436979
Torch and Flamecaller

>>53436988
Firebrand plays nice with X spells if that's what you mean by X burn base, and doesn't tank up six mana.

Or run all 3.

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>>53436994
All 3 then, I have a Chain Veil to finally use. Also, I want Kolaghan and Atarka in this. The earlier versions of each. Doubling season for both Wasitora and the walkers, impact tremors and Purphoros and all that. I could probably even play Second Harvest in this deck, and the Shattergang Brothers too. And Lavalanch.

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>>53437022
Just remember you can't have more than one planeswalker with the same subtype (eg Chandra) on the battlefield at the same time

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>>53437068
Oh I know that. And I definitely know about Exsanguinate. This too, to help Wasitora punch through, and some of the tokens my walkers make too. Use with Vraska ult to win

>>53433592
>Marath was absolutely the most broken
What exactly changed? x before the erata text x couldn't be 0 for +1/+1 counters, to deal damage or to create a creature I do believe.

>>53436060
>extra turns
>cantrips
>spot removal
Basically everything that isn't an X spell. Shit, even board wipes don't seem terrible with him

>>53437112
1. Remove 0 counters to make a 0/0 creature token
2. Continue doing this as many times as you want
3. Win because you had one of: Impact Tremors, Hissing Iguanar, Serra's Anthem etc out
Easy easy way to combo out for free as soon as you resolve Marath.

Now, X can't be 0.

>>53437112
You would have been able to get infinite 0/0s. With an anthem that's infinite dudes, with Impact Tremors that's infinite damage, with Wellwisher that's infinite life, etc.

Everyone flipped out over it when it was spoiled and then WotC immediately put out an errata before the product even shipped.

>>53437112
Yes, that's the change. Before release Marath didn't have the "X can't be zero" clause. It was quickly noted that this would allow you to create infinite 0/0 tokens and trigger as many ETB/LTB abilities as you'd like.

>>53433094
Literally the point of Hermit druid decks

Aside from Slivers, Wizards, Soldiers, Elves and Goblins, what are other tribes with good tribal legends? Elementals and Cats?

Like, it's unlikely to be: Fungus/Thallids, Barbarians, Warriors, Dwarves, Birds, Nightmares, etc

>>53437637
scarecrows

>>53437673
Reaper King's fantastic.

Shame about most of the rest of 'em but I guess having RK as a general really helps.

>>53437177
>>53437172
>>53437147
Oh I thought x couldn't be 0 was an actual rules compendium rule. Thanks for the info.

>>53436209
Play blue and steal/copy your opponents good shit.

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I just went to comicon and met 5 dudes who play commander but only have one commander deck and it is Oloro. Is this statistically improbable or should I do something?

>>53437637
Zombie is an amazingly good tribal with varying commander options, like Gisa and Geralf, Grimgrin, Corpse-Born, Sidisi, Brood Tyrant, Ghoulcaller Gisa, or Mikeaus the Unhallowed.

Soldiers is an okay tribal in my experience, too, best lead by either of the Odric commanders.

>>53437877
well, X = 0 is a functional choice in many cases. you're allowed to green sun's zenith for x = 0 and grab dryad arbor, for example.

>>53437926
kill them. kill them all.

the world will be a better place for it

I want a horror tribal

>>53437637
>Zombies
>Dragons
>Vampires
>Elementals
>Scarecrows
>Allies

>>53438033
>implying Allies ever works
Never gets the momentum

>>53438033
Allies are a shitty tribe and they're even worse without the ability to play like the 3 usable ones multiples, not to mention that everyone that tries to play them seem to be extreme retards every time.

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>>53432853
You can never have enough Elves, Anon.

>>53438155
>wanting a fucking elf Eminence commander
Serious commit kysudoku

>>53435186
I had a Borborygmos deck. Last time I played it the other players just watched me drawing my entire deck and killing everyone else in one turn. I hated winning like that and so I took the deck apart.

Is there such thing as playing control without being see as a jerk?

>>53438357
only if your playgroup gits gud

>>53438401
Then I'm screwed.

>>53438357
1 control deck is good for a table, it's only when you have a bunch that actual hate for the archetype happens.

Other than that it's because as control you will face more aggro than other players often because of two reasons. Reason one is that most decks that aren't control lose to control late game 1v1, so you have to be murdered before then. The second is that you are the one to likely stop someone from winning. If they think you have a counterspell in hand for their craterhoof, it means you have to die for them to resolve it and win the game. If enough people are thinking that same thing you will die fast.

I think those are the only rational reasons people "hate" control, unless your deck is also combo, in which case it probably has more to do with it being combo than control.

>>53438497
What is control vs what is hate is a topic that we can't seem to agree on around here.

And yeah, I diteched combo after a few wins with it because it was boring as hell.

>>53438357
>>53438497
Only time I really hate control is when the deck appears to be built with no other purpose. No real win condition or anything like that.

A deck that says, "No," isn't very fun.

>>53438599
Who the hell actually makes those?

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Had a good game tonight! Tweaked my Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind deck a week ago to add a few things. The real star of tonight's game was Sphinx Bone Wand which ended up sticking around way longer than it normally does and got a good nine counters on it to finish off the last person. Had a great play at the end of the turn of the guy before me, where I used Quicken to cast Mind Spring for four and Reverberated it, with both the wand and Niv on the table. Ticked the wand up from two to five counters and drew nine total cards with Niv - 21 damage I could spread around.

>>53438604
Usually it's poor design. "I like counters and O-Ring effects!" So they add 'em in with Grand Arbiter as the Commander and just deny all game.

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>>53438179

>>53432288
>What is the biggest cancer in the design of Commander products? And why is it bottom-up legend design?
I really dislike the commanders that have effects from the command zone, as well as the "cast trigger" commanders.
>>53435621
I usually storm out with an infinite mana combo, or a fat GY with an overloaded Mizzix's Mastery.
>>53438688
Bone Wand is such a powerhouse if you can untap with it. Last game i played I untapped with it and cast an overloaded Mizzix's Mastery with ~25 targets in the GY. Was able to convince my pod that they were all dead without resolving the whole pile thankfully.

>>53432288
Does what you mean by bottom up legend design include:
>planeswalkers with "this can be your commander"
>"partner" commanders
>"cast from the command zone"
>effects that occur from the command zone like Oloro
If so, then I agree that shit is the worst. However, competing with this bullshit:
>people using this dudes shit banlist based on his kitchen table meta just because they conceived of the format
Fuck Sheldon's banlist and people appealing to it. Worldfire isn't even that bad and neither is Braids.

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Make it fucking happen, WotC.

>>53438761
Yeah, I need to get the 2015 R/B deck.

>>53438895
Uh...R/U deck. Pretend I said that.

>>53432953
I actually like O-Kagachi, simply because I needed a general for my get-punished-for-everything deck that I always wanted to build.

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http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/queens-reign-1/ opinions? It is supposed to be casual build, nothing overly crazy put from whatever leftovers I have so mana base is obviously lacking, and i mean really lacking.

>>53432953

I was looking to build something Azorius for my next commander deck, now I might go with Taigam instead of Brago, always had a soft spot for Rebound as a keyword.

>>53438867
Tfw
>you now have to spend $40 on your commanderground sea
>I'm addition to $400 for your underground sea

>>53438604
Had a guy at the table who played a mono blue deck that only consisted of counterspells. I mean literally, his deck was just counterspells, mana and card draw. He countered almost everything. Nobody at the table could do anything. The game dragged on for almost two hours. The thing that made me angry though is that at some point he himself got bored and basically asked for someone to take him out of the game. So he built this terrible deck with no win condition whatsoever, stopped everyone from playing the game and then gets annoyed when the game gets boring and tedious.

>>53439065
What was his commander?

>>53439078
if it has no wincons and is mono U counterspell.dek then I guess baral

>>53439078
It's been a while, I don't remember. It could actually have been Baral.

>>53438867

You do know that these existing wouldn't actually replace the "need" for original dual lands, right? You would still want the original duals in every deck if you could afford them, you would just put these in on top.

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Anyone got some spicy tech?

>>53439142
>>53439057
>>53438867
>You may not play this in the same deck as "underground sea"
>banned in every other format
Could this work in theory?

>>53438867
What does this really accomplish? People already running underground sea will just run both. You are still going to be down one underground sea to the people that can afford one.

>>53439177
Sunder

>>53439177
Does anyone here play this deck? Is it fun? I looked him up on edhrec and I have most of the signature cards.

>>53438688
>>53439065
But these people are retarded. They must be. You made a deck with no way to win? I understand packing a ton of counters. It isn't fun but if it leads somewhere it works at least.

Although I once saw a deck on salvation whose wincon was "your opponents scooping to your card advantage."

>>53439184

>>You may not play this in the same deck as "underground sea"
>>banned in every other format
>Could this work in theory?

It could, but there's literally zero chance of Wizards ever printing anything with that kind of wording.

>>53439184
No, that language doesn't jive. You might be able to pull "underground seas that you control enter the battlefield tapped"

It's still a stupid idea, and at worst it straight up violates the reprint policy. If they were going to do that they should just reprint underground sea.

>>53439219
There are also control/stax lists with 'wincon' being Divine Intervention

>>53439229
>>53439231
Is there any legal weight to the reserve lisr

>>53439236
That's at least some kind of plan.

>>53439251
The correct answer to this is "there could be".

There WOULD be lawsuits if it was broken, but until it has it's day in court we don't know for sure how it would turn out. There are legal arguments to be made both ways. Wizards will probably never risk it.

If they wanted to fuck the reserve list they can just make better cards. They could literally print something stupid like this:

Tropical Savannah Island
Land - Island Forest Plains

This does not violate the reserve list, but it does obsolete some of it.

They could also do something like this

Healthy Underground Sea
Land - Island Swamp
When ~ enters the battlefield gain 1 life.

They can't do something like make the above land, but have it gain one life and lose one life or make snow duals, because they are too similar.

>>53439177
I stand by my belief that Telepathy is worth a slot when playing against randoms.

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>feel like building a tribal deck because I don't have one yet
>but also try to be a hipster with it and pick a more unique tribe
>every tribe I look up either doesn't have enough cards to even call it tribal or is full of unplayable clunkers
Being a shitty hipster is tough.

>>53439365
I mean you could just not be a shitty hipster, or rearrange your definition of tribal.

>>53439393
But I wanna be the special snoooowflaaaake.

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>>53439365
I have a Lovissa Coledeyes warrior tribal deck. It's not very strong but fun to play. Is that unique enough for you?

Someone please respond to this >>53439215
I would really hate to order cards for 60€ only to find out the deck is boring or oppressive.

>>53439435
I've been playtesting a bit on xmage, if you get off sunder its oppressive as fuck for people that dont scoop, otherwise its a fun way to ramp fast into fun things

Then again, im playing mainly moonfolk, so im not sure how bad it is if you optimize it

>>53439472
Alright, I think I will give the deck a try. Thankyou.

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>>53439421
Nah, I think I've found my tribe-fu.

>>53439550
But anon, goblins are a popular tribe.

>>53439623

I think he's talking about rogues

>>53438357

Your group blows. My group finally packs counters after showing them off the bat that the "gayest" color was fucking irritating.

Some dispels and essence scatters and six months and my group throws a little blue in everything now.

>>53436403

It's not exactly what you are looking for, but my deck list might give you some ideas.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/roon-of-the-awakened-realm/

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>>53439628

Ruling question:
I use an entwined Tooth and Nail to hit Avenger of Zendikar and Juniper Order Ranger, does the Avenger and his tokens trigger the Ranger or not? If instead i hit Avenger and Master Biomancer does it work the same way?

>>53439912
All Juniper Order Ranger asks is whether another creature enters. Does Wood Elves see itself enter?

Master Biomancer will work for the tokens but not Avenger.

>>53439976
Thank you for clearing that up

Taigam + dovescape?
Does this work the way I think it does?

>>53439976
This isn't true. In scnerios like this where a creature has an effect that cares about things entering and leaving the battlefield simultaneously, if an effect puts multiple creatures in play simultaneously that trigger triggers for each valid target. It's how the old Noxious Ghoul + Patriarch's Bidding combo used to work.

>>53439912
In both examples both the Avenger and its tokens would get the counters.

>>53440233
Whoops Master Biomancer is a replacement effect and not a trigger. I should RTFC. Ignore what I said about it applying counters to Avenger.

>>53440217
Yes

>>53440256
>>53440233
Exactly.

>>53440256
Well Master Biomancer actually isn't a replacement effect but whatever.

In short don't answer rules questions in the future.

>>53433998
When Scion becomes a copy, the damage he deals is not commander damage

>>53440460
Ur wrong tho

>>53440445
Yes it is. Stop spreading misinformation.

>>53440460
Negative. Commander damage is a property of the card, not the creature.

>>53437926
an oloro player is like a dead canary in the coal mine that is edh groups

>>53440473
>>53440508
So I was using this thread as my source for this

http://tappedout.net/mtg-questions/if-scion-of-the-urdragon-copies-a-dragon-will-its-damage-still-count-as-general-damage/

I now see that if I had finished reading it, I wouldn't have made this mistake
I gotta apologize to someone at my LGS now

>>53432288
>What is the biggest cancer in the design of Commander products? And why is it bottom-up legend design?
commanders that do shit in the command zone or really anything that references the command zone. also not good enough reprints generally. commander precons should have a shit load of reprints in them and im tired of buying them and having to scrap 70% of the deck off gate cause its filled with garbage

>>53432953
>Are they real?
god i hope not, dragon tribal precon will be shit if it is

>>53440860
I like the Ur-Dragon though

>>53440860

Ur Dragon and Taigam are both fine cards.

>>53440860
They are real.

Also what's so bad about the dragon precon? Ravos is a nuts card, spellslinger guy is cool as hell, and ur dragon will be a dragon tribal commander that actually plays like dragon tribal, instead of combo/voltron.

Literally what more could you ask for?

>>53440938
>Ur Dragon
free casting garbage with a command zone text, pure utter garbage cancer to be completely honest

>Taigam
not jeskai for literally no reason even though it would be an amazing jeskai commander. complete shit

>>53440860
>Ur Dragon
5c access and a static discount is fine. And cast first main he's close to immediate value
>Ramos
Is going to be insane, mark my word.
>Taigam
Fuck Dragons, this guy is pretty much literally asking to be the next Creatureless Narset by enabling infinite turn engines if nothing else
>Dragon Kitten and Pissed Spirit
They're not great but do you seriously think they're deck killers?

>>53440982
>not jeskai for literally no reason
Except all the lore. Welcome to top-down design, anon.

>>53440824

>commander precons should have a shit load of reprints in them and im tired of buying them and having to scrap 70% of the deck off gate cause its filled with garbage

Are you for fucking real?

Commander decks usually have twice their MSRP in value cards in them, expecting no bulk in a 100 card precon deck is beyond unreasonable.

>>53440982
A 7 cmc cost enchantment stapled on to a 4cmc commander who also makes instant/sorceries unable to be countered

>complete shit

>>53441048
Can't they just as easily make characters from the previous timeline for the commander products? I mean isn't Ramos supposed to be dead and he has a card.

>>53441048
>lore
>in a commander precon
not an excuse to ignore jeskai not having a single good commander minus narset

>>53440982

So when you say "shit" what you actually mean is "I don't like it"

>>53441197
>Commander decks usually have twice their MSRP in value cards in them
they only do cause there is 100 cards in them. look at c16, it was the perfect time to reprint decent lands cause the deck are complete shit in the mana base. but did they? nope. but hey 50 bulk cards worth a dollar that you will never be able to sell and 4 cards worth over 2 dollars is totes ok right?

>>53441255
To be fair, I feel like just the "Dragon support" was enough to make Taigam Jeskai instead of U/W, and it would have opened up a lot of interesting deck design. As is, he's neat, but... eh.

>>53441257
You do realize that the point of the precons is to give new players a decent skeleton to work from, not to put 200 dollars worth of cards into a 35 dollar box?

What the hell were you expecting, shocks and fetches?

>>53441287
>skeleton to work from
>over half the deck is worthless or just objectively terrible cards

no they exist to sell people new commanders now

>>53441212
Taigam was a turncoat who went Sultai in the first timeline, so a top-down Taigam would never be Jeskai-colored.

Thinking that Jeskai needs better commanders is one thing. You'd be right, and should pray that one of the other decks this year is Jeskai Wizards or something like that. But getting butthurt over Taigam for not being Jeskai makes as much sense as raging at Wasitroa or Ludevic for the same reason (Though feel free to rage at Ludevic for other reasons)

>>53441299
Yeah, it's not optimized. It's not supposed to be, because it costs 35 dollars. It's got a 'theme', some staples (Command Tower, Sol Ring), some decent cards for that strategy, and yeah, some chaff. All the precons have some chaff, because they want players to be able to say "Okay, I can lose this for this new card I wanna bring in", or "I can replace this Refuge with that Shockland I traded for".

What I'm seeing is that you're assmad that you didn't get 200 dollars worth of staples in a 35 dollar product.

>>53441299
>A for-profit business releases a product in order to sell it
How dare they

>>53441257

Are you actually trying to argue that a 35 dollar product should contain 200+ dollars worth of reprints?

>>53441352
Why the fuck would it not? Wizards gets nothing from the secondary market, and shit like Intro Decks and Duel Decks never sell.

>>53441212
But Ramos was at one point alive, and is in the current timeline at the current time dead. They can make things like Reyhan because she existed in both timelines, but unless they do another alternate timeline set like Planar Chaos's Timeshifted cards they can't make, for example, a Radha Planeswalker.

Of course, "can't" is all subjective. They can do whatever the fuck they want, it'd just be different from what they've done in the past.

>>53441352
what is your point? fill it full of reprints, print the shit out of it, bring prices down, and wizards makes a shit fuck load of money. as it stands right now they dont make fuck from the secondary market. might as well start getting that money themselves instead of literally handing it to randos for no reason

>>53441368
>Wizards gets nothing from the secondary market
They get a stable base of buyers. If they ricked the boat constantly, secondary market sellers wouldn't want to buy in because anything they build value on would randomly have its value nuked. Standard reprints are one thing, they're a fairly small risk or loss especially when in a randomly distributed set, and they don't tend to reprint a million staples at once even in a Masters set.

Dropping $200 worth of secondary market value into a fixed-contents set with an MSRP of $35 is a recipe for one of three things

1) Insane price hikes by the retail market
2) Insane scarcity as sellers open the product rather than selling it
3) If the print run is essentially unlimited, a price crash over a wide set of valuable staples that will make the secondary market sellers -- the guys who open by the CASE rather than the pack -- more wary of doing business in the future.

NONE of this is good for WotC's image or ability to do more business in the future.

>>53441368
Except for the fact that if they crash the secondary market by putting big bucks cards into precons they will go fucking bankrupt
They even made the reserved list to protect (((investors))) and that's for reprints in packs of random cards, do you even imagine how big would be the shitstorm if they began shitting out products where you have 100% chance to find good money cards?

>>53441312
Taigam is always blue, and in the original timeline he'd be blue black, while in the new timeline he'd be blue white. I could see an argument for new timeline Taigam being Esper, even, with his need for control, devotion to Ojutai, and ambition in trying to oust Narset, but he's got no red characteristics to speak of.

>>53441368
>>53441423

>"Crashing the secondary market and bankrupting game stores and big sellers while fucking over large amounts of the playbase by completely devaluing their collections will have absolutely no negative consequences for Wizards"

wew

>>53441441
>They get a stable base of buyers.
they would get stable buyers if they reorged the company and cut out the secondary market. they are losing literally millions yearly by not controlling the secondary market. all they would have to do is invest in their own logistics for a bit and they would shit profit a year or two after

>>53441455
>wizards reorgs and starts doing the logistics themselves like games workshops just with a ridiculously more popular product thus cutting out the middle man and increasing profits

wew

>>53441463
You can't do it so abruptly though, if they release a precon like that they will just make the company go bankrupt within a week or less. They have to do it gradually over several months waiting for the market to adjust step by step

>>53441455
>fucking over large amounts of the playbase
for every one they "fuck over" they would gain hundreds of new buyers. its not like wizards makes money off of people with huge collections of shit 2 decades old anyway

>>53441463
You don't seem to understand how much of their profit comes from the store level. Konami "controls" the secondary market for YGO, for example; they'll print busted-ass Dodecatuple Ultra Creme-Filled Ghost Rare cards that are basically mandatory to compete, and they'll sell for some 200 dollars on the secondary market... and then print it as a 2-of common in a 10 dollar precon and obliterate the market for it. Or ban it, and it becomes worthless. Or both.

I know professional vendors who travel to GPs that won't TOUCH Yugioh because of how volatile it is. You could wake up and the announcement of the new precons has knocked a 0 off of the value of your sales case. You could open up the shop and find out that you have a stack of bookmarks because the 50 dollar card you were eager to sell before the event tonight got banned. As a result of the secondary market basically not existing, almost the entire playerbase hates Konami for requiring them to sink money into the game to 'compete' for 2 months before the cards become banned or easily obtained, and the game is slowly dying because of the company treating it like a cash cow they've expected to die any day now for 10 years.

>>53441352
I think what he's trying to argue is that Wizards claims not to acknowledge the secondary market yet reprints in a manner that heavily favors the inflated prices for some staples and that they should focused on getting cards in people's hands rather than sucking off singles vendors, since most LGS run by anyone with a competent business model doesn't heavily lean on singles sales. Their profits don't drop in a more aggressive reprint scenario, it just pisses off people taking advantage of the market.

So TL;DR version is the $200 amount you mention is arbitrary as per WOTC admission. It's more related to how rare they want a card to be in the environment.

>>53441498
>Citation needed
You're ASSUMING they would gain buyers. You have offered absolutely no evidence or data to suggest that them kneecapping the secondary market and pissing off store-owning PTOs would be good for the game's health long-term.

>>53441463
They are losing nothing. You think they should, what, open their own packs and sell singles at market? get back into the brick-and-mortar business they had in the 90s, inflating their overhead in an attempt to corner a market that they would look rather slimy for trying to corner (Since they control the supply)?

Wizards makes wholesale on all cards. The only way secondary market effects them is in encouraging people to buy lottery tickets (packs) hoping to open "good" cards. It matters nothing to wizards whether the good cards are then resold for a profit by someone who bought ten thousand cases from them, or if the cases were sold pack by pack at retail and the "good card" ends up in little timmy's jank.dec

Wizards wants cards to be valuable on the secondary market because that drives the demands for their fixed-price wholesale product.

>>53441509
To be fair, it's a bit of a balancing act. If they go too conservative, people bitch about how Modern/Legacy/Commander is too expensive because of old out-of-print staples. If they're too free with the reprints, people froth at the mouth over their cards devaluing overnight (and I don't just mean 'investors' treating cards like stocks- I mean people who spend 200 bucks on a playset of something and then it's announced as a reprint the next day and the price TANKS). There's really no all-win scenario for them; no matter what they do, people are gonna be mad, but it'll be worse if they go TOO far either way.

>>53441491
>You can't do it so abruptly though
well ya you do it over the course of like 3-5 years. but either way the secondary market is basically just stealing money from wizards at this point. better to cut them out of it. you will make people mad but you will gain a fuck load of customers. think about everyone who said they would play X if it wasnt hundreds of dollars. now sell X for 10 dollars and people will buy the fuck out of it for years to come since the barrier of entry is so low

>>53441506
Vendors that lean heavily on singles prices for making profits are both stupid and in the minority, let alone vendors who lean heavily on Commander singles for profit. Any competent LGS owner will tell you this.

>>53441539
Right. And COULD Magic have functioned better as an LCG instead of a TCG? Maybe. But don't forget that they basically INVENTED the TCG, and I don't think it would have boomed as hard as it did in the 90s as an LCG. And trying to convert it to an LCG now just wouldn't work.

>>53441506
And yet despite how abusive they are to its secondary market, how inaccessible it is to its targeted demographic and how poor of a state the game is in it's still the best selling card game of all time.

>>53441543
>Citation
>Needed
Singles are usually your highest markup item in a local store, right up there with snacks and drinks. Yeah, the MAJORITY of your profits are coming from selling packs/sleeves/deckboxes, but I've never seen a store that doesn't "do" singles last longer than a year or two because it's such a good revenue stream.

>>53441560
>Best selling card game of all time
Citation needed.

Also, you might be right. It might be the best selling one, but it's DYING. Magic's been around for 25 years, and it's not really showing signs of dying anytime soon, whereas everyone's kinda expected YGO to go tits-up any day now for the past few years. Konami is milking it like a cash cow- they fully expect it to wither up and die in the near future, so they're wringing every last cent out of it while they still can. WOTC is playing the long game with Magic; they'd rather have it profitable for a long time, than have it be very profitable for a few more years and then just die off and deny them that revenue stream from now on.

And, again, Konami's been the way they are since Day 1. Wizards has not. If WOTC switched over to the Konami model, capriciously throwing out bans and reprints whenever they felt like it and taking a giant, steaming shit on the secondary market every few weeks, the game would not last long.

>>53441509

>since most LGS run by anyone with a competent business model doesn't heavily lean on singles sales

Citation please.

Any gamestore that actually deals in Magic the Gathering and yet chooses not to deal in singles is literally incompetent in the most direct meaning of the word since they're cutting themselves off from a major revenue source for no reason (inb4: muh integrity)

Not to mention that the game store business in general already operates on an extremely lean profit-margin, which is why most stores fail. Cutting off any source of income is something most people in that business absolutely cannot afford.

>>53441551
>>53441539
>>53441509

Probably the best way WotC could capatalize on the singles market would be to set up a system similar to TCGplayer where they don't own the sellers but provide visibility and a (to be made coveted) "official dealer" status for a modest cut of sales performed through the system. They need brick and mortar stores because a game like magic doesn't exist without a venue but they DON'T need online retailers to stay happy and healthy. The problem of course being the SCG and TCGplayer are already entrenched and have taken to providing their own tournaments that help drive interest, so while their primary service isn't one that Wizards needs to not crush, what they do for the game (And by that Wizards' bottom line) is harder to quantify.

>>53441705
To be fair, most of the big online retailers are just an online storefront for an actual brick-and-mortar.

Gentlemen, how would you fix Boros? Without bleeding the rest of the color pie into it, that is. Personally I believe Boros should have a commander that profits from stax and MLD.

>>53441738
Boros' biggest problem is lack of reliable draw. Red's draw is basically all rummaging/wheels/looting, and white's draw is either expensive or requires hoop-jumping like Mentor of the Meek. That's baked into white, though- white can "deal with" basically any kind of threat, and has great threats of its own, and the drawback of that is lack of good draw. That's why it pairs well with green, blue, or black to help alleviate that flaw. Red just doesn't offer a ton to shore up white's weaknesses.

>>53438117
Hagra diabolist and kicked rite of replication is an instant win though

File: restore_balance.jpg (27KB, 210x297px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 210x297px

>>53441773
>"If I can't draw cards, nobody should." -white

>>53441780
To be fair, if you spend 14 mana setting up a combo it should win you the game.

Outside of shit like that, Allies are mostly just bad slivers. They snowball pretty well, but they recover poorly. And you basically have to be playing a new Ally or two every turn, since almost all the power is in the form of ETB triggers. With Slivers, at least, you can just setup for a bit and then sideways them without needing a new Sliver every turn.

>>53441567
Read my posts please. I said stores that lean on singles are dumb, not ones that sell them. A business savvy owner has NEVER invests in large section of his stock in a commodity that is liable to such volitility as singles. I'd say they make up less than a quarter of the profit for the average SOUND business model for LGSs.

Citation: Did a thesis paper on WoTC-supplied LGS business models within a 50 mile radius.

Above argument is why I'm seriously considering chinaman proxies to get into legacy (which most EDH players in my area are shifting to, anyway) His profit margin has to be stupid high charging like 5 bucks for every piece of cardboard, but atleast he charges for what it is, printing and cardboard. Flat rate. Gaea's Cradles cost as much as Un-basics cost as much as tabernacles.

I'm not gonna resale or saturate using fakes, but damned if I'll entertain magic's hellscape of a secondary market.

>>53441828
>Ci
>Ta
>tion
>nee
>ded

>>53441828
Just because you wrote a fucking term paper on card shops for your 12th grade Economics class does not make you an industry expert.

>>53439365
I built 4 color tribal thopters back when magic origins was new with yore tiller nephilim as my commander and made that shit WORK. What's your excuse?

>>53441898
Define "work".

>>53441839
>>53441847
Call your local LGS. Most people are not shy to discuss their business model.

I'm sorry the info I provided doesn't support your confirmation bias. Average store has around 50k investmented in ALL their singles, the majority of that being in standard singles (unless they have a shitty standard turnout).

>>53441223
Shu yun is calling

>>53441738
Give them a Rhystic Study commander. Draw a card unless your opponent pays 1 or sacrifices a land.

>>53441594
Magic has nearly died three times already, just barely scraping by each time.

And now with successive failures player confidence in Wizards is at an all time low. It really just needs the right push to be right where it was during the Mirrodin block.

>>53437926
A play group that's just 5 oloros sounds hilariously fun, I'd love to know how the decks are warped to eachother

>>53441922
Consistently wins against all decks below cedh in my local meta

>>53441925
You didn't provide "information". You made a claim, and then said you 'wrote a thesis' on it with a laughably small sample size.

I am not doing your research for you. I am asking you to provide me with actual data that supports your argument, which you have repeatedly refused to do.

>>53441947
>three times already
Arabian Nights backs, Urza block, Mirrodin block?

>>53441961
I find that hard to believe, unless you're playing against utter idiots.

>>53439365
>>53437637
Why are people sleeping on fungus tribal? (feat. infinite saprolings in x-many ways)

>>53441972
You figure out what your tribe does better than other tribes, and roll with that

>>53441656
>>53441594
>>53441523
>citation needed
Fucking lurk more or go back to where you came from.

>>53441738
Id be up for a punisher Boros commander. Maybe it deals damage when an opponent draws a card/plays a land past their first.

>>53441984
Sorry, where do YOU come from that you think making wild-ass claims with absolutely nothing to support them means you're automatically right?

Here, let me try:

I wrote MY thesis on why every Magic store within a 500 mile radius leans heavily on their singles sales. There, now I've 'written a thesis' and my number is bigger than yours, so I'm more right. If you'd like to see the paper, or the data I collected, go call your game store.

>>53441947
if magic is going to die you know they will reprint the reserved list as a hail mary

>>53442032
If magic died tomorrow, what cards would you buy purely for the art value?

>>53441925
>investmented

Autocorrect took the wheel with humorous results.

So...where does one get a hold of some Chibaman proxies?

>>53441954
>hilariously fun
i also like watching paint dry
>someone drops a leyline of the void turn 0 and everyone scrambles to get their helm of obedience
or alternatively
play a creautre
board wipe
play a creature
board wipe
play a creature
board wipe

>>53442032
That's the exact opposite of what they would do, Hasbro would never welcome any amount of legal trouble, especially not for a dying brand.

>>53442010
Fuck off retard, reddit is two doors down.

>want to play a deck
>its monoblue again
>baral

Oh fuck my bad, did i slip into a coma, are we now in Vintage.

>>53442094
I like how whenever people don't actually have an argument, they just say "go to reddit".

>>53441966
I quite frankly don't care whether you're convinced or not. There's no public database with this info and I'm giving away info that was confided in me in confidence. Call your LGS.

/r/mtgfinance is the biggest community of store owners if you actually are curious if you not here just to argue with something that doesn't support your belief

>>53442106
Probably because your posts reek of fedora.

>>53442113
>I quite frankly don't care whether you're convinced or not
Then why are you still trying to convince me?

>>53442042
>buy purely for the art value?
probs none from the reserved list desu

>>53442113
>>53442106
Oh wow who knew this would happen.

Seriously fuck off.

>>53442106
>mommy my friends online told me "go to reddit".
we dont like your kind
you arent welcome here

>>53442152
Still not an argument :^)

>>53442163
>2017
>making an argument
Shiggy

>>53442135
A lot of great art is "wasted" on 10cents commons. And the Alpha frame is ugly as FUCK so yeah.

And new thread when since this one is derailed with fucking finance "arguments" now.

>>53442187
You can fuck off too while we're at it.

>>53442187
>Animal Brollective
when are you going to an hero, you massive faggot?

>>53442187
If you aren't directly contributing something where your identity remaining a constant is necessitated, turn off the fucking trip, you cock gargling neanderthal

>>53442144
>Give you a location where you can find the info you keep asking citation for
>"Fuck off"

Okay anon.

Move over motherfuckers:
>>53442298
>>53442298
>>53442298

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2MB, 344x194px

>>53432953
>Cat dragon basically means there's no Karrthus reprint in the Dragon Tribal deck

i mean yeah sure take a card that has no reason for being $13 and not include it in the deck focused around Dragons with the excuse that it's too strong for the precons, but then reprint it a few months later in Iconic Masters. Thanks Wizards

>>53441773

I think there should be a few moderately priced "catch up" cards that basically work like Gift of Estates only for card draw form, or a sorcery version of Sandstone Oracle in white.

>>53441928
Shu Yun may kill one player and then immediately lose. That's usually how voltron works. Playing Shu Yun is like playing Infect. You either one shot someone and get ganged up on or you try to spread around damage and do next to nothing.

>>53442056
Check youtube. There's a few videos with links to a seller.