EDH/Commander General

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>>53424336
All my decks have different color identity but any blue deck i have runs swan song. Also, is this my new Rogue tribal commander just needs a few cards to be shipped.

>>53424336
Sol Ring, because it's fast mana but not as gay as Mana Crypt.

>>53424336
I only run green decks and I always run Cultivate/Kodama's Reach. Ramps mana, maintains hand size, deck thins, helps find colors you need.

>>53424336
>Cards that you always include

Command Tower, Sol Ring, Cultivate/Kodama's Reach, Counterspell, Rites of Flourishing

>>53424336
>Are there cards you include in absolutely every single deck you build? What are they and why?
All Decks: Sol Ring
All Multicolor Decks: Command Tower. In monocolor a basic is better.

Nothing else really jumps out as a 100% include under common conditions.

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It's gonna be kinda weird having two Tribal decks of the same tribe.

>>53424336
If it has access to red, it gets Vicious Shadows and Blasphemous Act no matter what.

>>53424336
>Staples
Urborg + Cabal Coffres
Eternal witness
Command tower
Crop rotation
Maze of ith
Diabolic tutor
Jace, Vryn's Prodigy

>>53424657
That's dumb and gay

>>53424657
Are those official or what, they're not on MythicSpoiler

>>53424706
They're original artwork and if you look at the other pictures it says it's by an artist with a very similar style.

>>53424706
>they're not on MythicSpoiler
they are though

>>53424657
What's would be the best ramp for this?
I already have:
Somberwald Sage
Sol Ring
Chromatic Lantern
Skyshroud Claim/Explosive Vegetation
Cultivate
Kodama's Reach
Nature's Lore/Farseek/Rampant Growth
Dragonlord's Servant
Urza's Incubator
Dragonspeaker Shaman
Selvala, Heart of the Wilds
Shaman of Forgotten Ways
Thran Dynamo
Gilded Lotus

>>53424657
anyone else just hate this card?

>>53424336
>Are there cards you include in absolutely every single deck you build? What are they and why?
the only one i put in every deck is sol ring but i definitely put cards in if im using certain colors

>>53424739
Ye I just checked new spoilers sections, they are indeed. On Salvation there's a thread with some spoilers as well, there's reprints of the FRF dragons in the dragon deck.

>>53424762
Not as much as I hate O-Kagachi.

>>53424808
O-Kagachi is lame as hell, it doesn't do him justice. What's up with WotC making the shittiest cards for the most interesting characters?

>>53424808
that one is ok, seems like a decent general that is just there to give you the colors you need with occasional uses which i personally think all 5 color commanders should be

What are your predictions for the other commander 2017 tribals?
Mine are:
Red - Dwarves
Green/White/Black - Humans
Blue/Black - Faeries, Rogues

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>>53424336

I normally play decks with at least a splash of red, so Mana Geyser is almost always an auto include.

Mots underrated EDH card imho

>>53424914
No way for dwarves, but faeries and humans seem likely. Do we have an idea on what the colors will be? My hopes are for either WBR Warriors or WUB Spirits.

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>wish for a legal 5c kamigawa commander for the longest time
>finally get one
>it's a pile of vomit
MONKEY PAW NOOOOOOO

>>53424336
>Are there cards you include in absolutely every single deck you build? What are they and why?
Sensei's Divining Top

It will be a sad day when it gets banned in the format.

>>53425002
5c commanders are cancer

I hope the 3 spoiled cards are from the same "tribe"

>cat dragon

>>53424657
i keked pretty hard when i saw all the dragon spoilers because i already have most of them in my scion deck. this big daddyo seems like a decent trick to pull out with scion (and garbage in the command zone).
then again my scion deck already has way too many dragons to function in a vancouver mulligan world.

>>53425032
>5c commanders are cancer
I like Reaper King and Horde of Notions, Alara baby is okay, I don't like playing Slivers and Tazri is cancer. O-Kagachi is literally a worse commander for a Kamigawa deck than Karona. Bottom up (or rather "up the arse") design at its worst.

>>53425032
http://mtg.gamepedia.com/Wasitora
She's definitely a dragon. Seems like they might be doing the thing they did with the original commander set by having 2 new legendaries in the decks colors, 1 old one (probably Scion for the dragon deck), and 1 additional new legendary that's only a couple of the colors.

>>53425084
>garbage in the command zone
I don't get why people are jumping to this conclusion. As a dragon tribal commander I can see a lot of potential just for his discounted dragons.

>>53425094
>Bottom up (or rather "up the arse") design at its worst.
He's actually clearly top down resulting in terrible mechanics (which, in a way, is fitting for the boss of Kamigawa). He retaliates against slights with exile-y brutality referencing his story role and his one previous card appearance on Final Judgment, and he's not indestructible because That Which Was Taken was his fucking divinity counter and Konda swiped it.

>>53425094
Would you say Tazri is cancer even if you don't play FC?

>>53425210
Well I'm pissed off about Wizards being so heavily fixated about ETB effects in the last couple of blocks (which is what Allies are entirely about) and printing very few hard answers to them, so yes.

>>53425210
Yes, tutor commanders are all powerful but cancerous.

I posted this yesterday and no one said anything. Can I get some feedback on this deck?

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/sen-triples-2/

>>53425147
This. Just make the deck RG focused with the other colors splashed for support. Then do a curve built around ramp/discount effects and spamming dragons.
It doesn't have the crazy combo potential that Scion does, but if you wanna play dragon tribal, you can do so competently without getting hated out

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the absolute madmen :3

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>>53424858

It's a bit of a "Luedvic" situation, where the card doesn't really reflect how powerful the creature should be. If I remember correctly, when O-Kagachi appeared in the material side of the plane during the story its presence began to tear Kamigawa apart. This is its card to appear in Kamigawa because otherwise it would have too powerful as a creature. In addition it was able to protect the plane from Old Walkers.

Atleast they remembered the exiling part.

>>53425378
It's not quite Ludevic because part of the problem with Ludevic is not just that he fails to hit the power level, but that he doesn't even do anything we would expect Ludevic to do. O-Kagachi does his stuff poorly but at least he does his stuff (being revenge and exiling). Would it have been great to get a big spirit boss who could Sneak Attack things at your opponent (See: Through the Breach), tearing the veil assunder and letting lose a ceaseless army like some commander-friendly version of Spawnsire? Yeah, but what we got isn't as far from the mark as Ludevic.

>>53425378
i did not play during kamigawa so i dont remember anything

>>53425419

You're right, the two aren't that comparable. They were more playing it safe.

O-Kagachi should be atleast an 8/8 and more like the like Miyojin it has a divinity counter when you play it, then you can remove that counter for an effect, like Exiling all other Creatures.

>>53425419
A Sneak Attack effect with spirits would be pretty cool too since it would have synergy with Soulshift as well as have synergy with expensive dragons...
Now I'm sad thinking about what could have been.

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Cast value for days.

That seems really cool!

>>53425529
>giving us a Monk tribal commander in a dragon tribal deck
Those sneaky little shits. I like it, but I wish it was Jeskai.

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>>53425547

>>53425547
Shut up about Jeskai if you don't want the dragonlords fucking your shit up. It's Ojutai now.

>>53425560
>meme commander
No thanks.

>>53425529
I think my favorite part is how he is worded so he only needs to attack for them to gain rebound, not do combat damage.

>>53425529
WHY THE FUCK IS IT NOT JESKAI REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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MANA MEMES

>>53425631
Because Ojutai and fucked up timeline

>>53425649
progenitus here we come

>>53425649
Damn that's spicy

>>53425631

There is no Jeskai anymore. Bolas's attempted killing of Ugin leading to Sarkhan's unintentional time fuckery led to that.

>>53425649
>satisfy stupidly easy requirement
>cast PRO FUCKING GENITUS

wew lad

>>53425649

>Use it's ability to cast the Ur-Dragon
>Immediately get all the counters back to cast it again

>>53425529
>all these unplayably weak legends for dragon tribal
>the one i would actually want to play isn't fucking red
I hate wotc

>>53425631
Jeskai-timeline Taigam was a traitor little shit who worked for the Sultai.

Anyway,
>UW spellslinger
Here we goooooo

>>53425649
And SHIT it's a legend! How many legends we got so far only from the dragon deck? Spicy af.

>>53425686
And five mana

>>53425651
>>53425663
>giving a shit about story in a commander precon

>>53425649
That is some spicy bullshit
Like, the spiciest of bullshit

>>53425703
>not giving a shit about story in a commander precon
Just think about Atraxa that gave us a much needed update on what shenanigans are happening on New Phyrexia

>>53425649
Also that Ramos is related to the Mercadian Masques' Ramos?

>>53425649
>Ramos
And they made him actually good? This makes up for O-Kagachi being bland

>>53425631
Sarkhan decided to doom millions to nonexistence because he was butthurt about a lack of dragons

>>53425729
Yup, they're going deep with all this lore.

>>53425338
This can't be fucking real.

>>53425729
They are the same. That Ramos was a robot dragon the whole time.

>>53425699
>How many legends we got so far only from the dragon deck?
Five. Three 5c Commanders (Ur, Ramos, O-Kagachi) and two that together add up to 5c (Taigam and the Kitty dragon)

>>53425419
If O-Kagachi had "At the beginning of your combat step, if an opponent attacked you during their last turn, you may cast O-Kagachi from your command zone for WBRUG tapped and attacking that player."

Along with the exiling of a nonland permanent.

Would you think it was good enough then? Gets around commander tax and comes in swinging.

>>53425821
why aren't you on R&D

>>53425821
Yeah, that would be pretty awesome. Though really I'd take the exile being an attack trigger rather than a damage trigger so that you couldn't escape so easily.

>>53425839
Because I'm an unknown 26 year old genius who threw his life away by impregnating a beautiful 18 year old at the age of 20.

If someone wants to give me a job I'm all in thanks in advance

>>53424657
"Knowledge is cruel. It will break your heart and test your allegiances. Are you certain you want this curse? ... So now you know. What will you do with this knowledge?"

>>53425649

Come on baby, I need a minute between rounds.

>The Ur-Dragon
Spicy and flavorful, I like it. The passive effect is decent, but I doubt he will ever be cast due to being 9CMC

>Taigam
Wasn't this guy some evil dude in the story? I forgot. Either way he's my favorite of the entire leak so far.

>Kamigawa dude
hot steaming pile of shit

>Cat dragon
Not bad but kind of boring

>Ramos
door to nothingness+progenitus.dec


With that being said, what do you think the other tribes will be? I'm glad they are not all dragons and actually doing other tribes, which I suspect every list will have

>>53425649
This is fucking disgusting. Why do they make shit that's so blatantly fucking ridiculous?

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>>53425529
>doesn't have to connect

>>53426068
I can see humans or zombies. I'm really hoping we get a WB Knight with that.

I'm getting real sick of them shoving so many Tarkir people into everything Commander.
For fuck sake, in the 4c ones 5 of the Partners (of 15) were Tarkir, and even one of the 5 decks had ONLY Tarkir Partners.

>>53426285
I'm hoping for Knight tribal specifically with maybe some Human and Soldier splashed in.

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Am I missing anything for my Jarad deck? I wanted to make a cheap fun second edh deck

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/jarad-lord-of-budget-1/

>>53426354

What about Soldier Tribal with support for Knights and Samurai?

>>53426307
Where are you getting five?

Ikra, Isahai, Reyhan, and Vial are Tarkir. By comparison, Tymna, Thrasios, Ravos, and Kydele are all from Theros, which is the same count.

Akri and Bruse are Zendikar
Ludevic and Kraum are Innistrad

Sidar (Dominaria), Silas (Alara), and Tana (???) are alone

The two partners of a given enemy color are both from the same plane. Tarkir has a pair and two of the allied, Theros has two pairs. Nu Timeline Tarkir is shit though

>>53426068
If they're all 5 color decks:
Slivers, Humans, Elementals

If they're colors that make sense for the tribes, and the typical tribes Wizards is likely to go with:
Any 3 of: Elves (G or BG), Merfolk (U), Goblins (R, RG, BR, Jund), Zombies (B, UB, Esper), Wizards (U or UR)

If they're colors that make sense for the tribes and not those above (as in I actually want this section to be real):
Angels (W or WBR), Knights (WBR), Sphinx (U or Esper)

So far into the realm of impossibility it'll literally never happen but that doesn't stop me from wanting it anyway:
Fox (W), Hound (W or GW)

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>>53426397
Ah, right, I had the count confused a little.
It's 5 from Theros and 4 from Tarkir.
Still, between the 4c decks and this year so far, I'm getting real sick of them sticking to already well known places for new cards, especially when supplements are the only chance there is for older lore characters to get cards. (ex. Sidar)

>>53426068
>what do you think the other tribes will be?
I'm still betting that we get Abzan Elves and Jund Goblins since they're in painful need of good tribal commanders. I'd say Mardu Angels for the last but they already have Kaalia for that. Esper or Jeskai Artificers would be cool, as would Izzet or Grixis Pirates, but they're extremely outside possibilities.

>>53425649
>cycle Decree of Savagery
>get Progenitus

>>53426454
I feel you but frankly I'll take Taigam for O-Kagachi, Ur Dragon, Wasitroa and Ramos. Especially the last two, who I would have thought utterly forgotten.

>>53426529
wait it only places four counters. reading is hard

>>53426550
Just play Hardened Scales (and every other +1/+1 doubler)

>>53426454

We're getting Dominaria, Kamigawa, and fucking Mercadia of all places. Expect some weird stuff this time.

Thrasios Landfall deck...

Do I go Vial Smasher for black and red, or do I go Bruse for white and red?

>>53426585
>they'll still ignore Lorwyn because we're not allowed to have fun art

>>53426597
The answer is always Vial Smasher.

>>53426613
>yfw one of the tribes is fairies and oona gets a new card

>>53426597
How many opponents do you expect? If the answer is greater than 1, give Vial a pass.

>>53426642
I'd be very okay with that. I love Oona, but she's way more geared for combo than faerie tribal

>>53426550
4 counters + 1 from Ramos' ability, you get 5 total and can get that sweet Progenitus

>>53426642
That would be awesome? If we're wishlisting perhaps a Sultai identity for Faeries so we can use the old shit alongside the majority of the LorMor Offerings?

>>53426646
Oh, are we back at it again with the "Vial Smasher is bad" meme?

>>53426662
Cycling isn't casting, so Ramos won't trigger.

>>53426662
Cycling is not casting.

>>53426583
Also Increasing Savagery is probably a better option than the decree

>>53425649
>>53426529
>>53426717
Blessing of Nature might actually have a use for once. (Cast with miracle, get 1 from Ravos and 4 from it)

>>53426613

I dunno man, we have a legendary dragon from Mercadia, and it's good. Lorwyn is totally possible.

>>53426738
Blessings of Nature *

>>53424657
>Admit oloros effect is not healthy for the format
>Make an entire mechanic out of it
I'm sure it will only be shitty tribal synergies but still you know these are going to be a problem

>>53426068
Hoping for 3 more 5C decks, namely Cat Tribal, Spirit Tribal and Human tribal, making every new Legendary in the set cross-compatible.

I.e. the Cat set would have a Cat Avatar, a Cat Human, a Cat Spirit and another Cat Dragon, as well as a Cat Artfact Creature. Make the Cat Avatar and one of the others 5C and do the same thing for the other 2 tribes and you'll be able to pretty much play everything using anything.

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>>53424336
>Are there cards you include in absolutely every single deck you build? What are they and why?
Every deck no exceptions

>>53426828
>more cats
But why?

>>53426743
True, but I really doubt they'd use the Lorwyn storybook art style if they did. It's not a dealbeaker or anything, just disappointing.

>>53426867
Why not?

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I'm not the only one thinking this guy is absolutely fucking absurd, right?

>>53426965
read the thread before duplicate posting please
we already have heavily discussed it above

>>53426965
>>53425649
He's fucking nuts.

A free Stroke for 7 every turn, or whatever else you want.

>>53426965
>Play Maelstrom Nexus
>Remove counters
>Play Maelstrom Angel
>Cascades into some shit
>Play Genju
>Cascades into some more shit

The fucking value is just dumb desu.

>>53424336
it's hard for me not to just slam ancient tomb into everything.

>>53426965
Really sad that you can only activate that ability once, that means no weird infinite mana combos.

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>>53425734
>Sarkhan decided to doom millions to nonexistence because he was butthurt about a lack of dragons
and those same millions now have existence in the new timeline. what are you even crying about?

>>53427095
Would flickering him reset the ability?

>>53427075
Neither Maelstrom Archangel or Genju of the Realms will cascade in that instance.

>Cat Dragon doesn't get food
>makes babies
>Cat Dragn gets food
>doesn't make babies

I don't get it.

Anyone have spicy tech for a fumiko deck? Ive got kazuul and goblin spymaster and the enchantment that makes elementals that cant attack you

>>53427108
Learn how the game works anon.

>>53427128
That was my exact complaint.

>>53427108
Yes, but then you'd have to give him 5 new +1/+1 counters.

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>>53425649
>>53426965

>>53427133
Smoke maybe?
Also, things I put in every R or part R deck: War's Toll, Price of Glory, Mana Geyser, Pyromancer's Goggles

>>53427166
I'm just glad they didn't go by color identity but by color itself.

>>53427166
Do you think that maybe rudditors would try to speculate witht this card? Should I buy one?

>>53427128
>cat dragon demands tribute
>pay her tribute
>she leaves you alone
>cat dragon demands tribute
>can't pay tribute
>she fucks you up

>>53427200
>she sends her kids to fuck you up*

>>53425002
Kind of want to build a Spirit/Arcane EDH deck around this guy just for fun. What are some auto include Kami?

>>53427253
Genju of the Fields is the second best Genju.

>>53425529
>Ojutai
>not Jeskai

turning Tarkir into a shitty half-Ravnica was a mistake

>>53427075
>activate this ability only once each turn
hue?

>>53427277
That's not where the issue is, we're just assuming he's hard-casting Maelstrom Nexus.

>>53427253
Kami of the Crescent Moon
Iname, Death Aspect

>>53427075
Except Maelstrom Nexus only works on the first spell you cast each turn, and it doesn't work at all the turn you cast it because the enchantment itself is probably your first spell that turn.

>>53427356
>not flashing in Maelstrom Nexus with Vedalken Orrery.

>>53426965
>T1: Land, Sol Ring, Mind Stone
>T2: Land 2, Thran Dynamo, Power Stone
>T3: Land 3, Door to Nothingness, 5 mana to spare for Apostle's Blessing
>T4: Ramos, Transguild Courier, opponent loses game
C H RI S T M A S W O N D E R L N D

I'm not gonna lie, all those legendary creatures seem to come from the same deck

What the actual fuck. we have 5 new legendary creatures from a single deck? And they all have some merits to be built?

Also, Taigam might be my favorite commander is Azorius at the moment.

>>53427466
They are from the same deck. At least that's why the guy who posted the leaks said

>>53427493
that's pretty insane. 5 new commanders from a single deck? that's kinda insane. and it might not be over yet. I mean, shit son.

>>53427518
It's the 3 intended commanders for the pre-con and 2 others that just happen to be legendary.
This is how Commander pre-cons are always made - 3 intended commander cards for that precon strategy, and 51 other new cards spread across the decks (with some overlap, usually when there's 5 decks it's 15 per deck but 51 total new cards)

>>53427216
>send her kids to cuddle with you
FIFY

>>53427541
I know, but there are never NEW legendary creatures in the 51 new cards Usually, it's 10 new commanders, 5 reprints intended as an alternative commander, and non-legendary cards.

But this deck has 2 new legendary creatures in addition to the 3 intended commander. and we haven't seen the reprinted commander that goes with it.

>>53427570
they said something like 65 new cards would be printed right?

>>53425649
wtf i love transguild courier now

>>53427137
>Remove counters, floating the ten mana
>Flicker
>Cast 5c spell with the floated mana

Rainbow Ramos is going to be yet another place where DEN makes his home.

>>53427253
Rule 1: If you're going Kami Spiritcraft, you're going to be turbocasual, so the strength of any synergy I mention is relative to this fact.

I've been poking at it for most of the morning. I think the real autoincludes on mechanics are Sire of the Storm and Elder Pine of Jukai. I mean, sire less since it's 6 mana, but when they trigger on everything that's some insane CA that can get going. The Unspeakable is also fairly dirty if you can ever land the fucker. I was running some test games and got him out with Petals of Insight online, it could be really mean.

Petals+Soulless Revival+Hana Kami could fish back your whole GY while drawing you cards, if you don't mind the disgusting mana cost to do it.

>>53427100
Actually no, it's been stated that the nondragon population of Dragons Tarkir is WAY lower than khans tarkir, and the dragons kinda went apeshit and started killing a ton of people after the ugin incident, so those people were never BORN

>>53427756
>so those people were never BORN
Yet all the Prime-Timeline Khans still were (And Sarkhan wasn't). It's a strange little gap we like to call shoddy storytelling.

>>53425338
please let this be real, it's so quirky and cuuute

>>53424857
I mean, it actually kind of does in a sad way. O-Kagachi lost most of his godly power, which is why he started a war to get it back. I'd say he deserves higher P/T than what he got, but he shouldn't have indestructible.

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>>53427570
>and we haven't seen the reprinted commander that goes with it.
scion of the ur dragon
i'm still mad they didn't give new art to bladewing to match the rorix reprint

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>>53427819
It's pretty simple. Surrak is too badass to not exist, and he dragged the rest of them with him.

>>53427877
Specifically, he should be 8/8. Eight freeking heads and it would match up to the largest of the Myojin. I will just repeat I wish he had some powers that felt like you could actually start a war with him.

>>53427907

Surrak is going to punch out then eat Atarka in Rebels of Tarkir, isn't he?

>>53427950
I just hope Mardu/Kholagan gets less retarded when they revisit Tarkir.

>>53425002
>finally make a long talked about named character that never received a proper card
>it's shit

so this is this years Ludevic right? Because holy fuck this is disappointing for what was supposed to be the strongest Kami on all of Kamigawa.

>>53427979
Exactly, it's a perfect representation of a Kamigawa card, don't you see?

>>53427950
Eeh, I think he punches Atarka dead, right after Atarka says something about having an invincible hide that no mortal could possibly hurt him through or some such. Somebody else can kill Atarka, maybe Arel using some old temur-style cold magic. True, that's two Dragonlord kills to Temur, but Sidisi is voted Least Likely to Rebel and Zurgo needs to re-assert his badassery by dropping Sarkhan.

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>>53425338

>Cat Dragon

?

>>53427999
Most of them hit their flavor, though -- at least the legendaries -- they were just overcost as all getout. He'd be a better representation if he cost more mana than Iname As One but did something that's... not worth THAT price but is at least awesome on paper.

>>53428012
Dromoka has the invincible hide. Silumgar made the clan his bitch. Kholagan turned his clan retarded. Ojutai is indirectly fostering resistance. Atarka doesn't care about anything but eating.

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>>53427979
>the strongest Kami on all of Kamigawa
>literally dies to a random rare kami from the first Kamigawa set

>>53428012

The real question is what is Sarkhan going to do in Rebels? Is he going to side with the Dragons, because Dragons? Is he going to side with the Rebels, because the dragons aren't that different than humans and they are slowly killing Tarkir anyways? Is he gonna have sweet Dragon Furry on Autism sex with Narset?

>>53425378
I still think of Progenitus as the actual O-Kagachi.

>>53428037
how about this

1WUBRG
O-Kagachi, the Not as Boring
Legendary Creature - Dragon Spirit
Flying, Trample
Whenever you play a dragon or a spirit card you may destroy a creature that attacked you during it's controller's last turn.
Whenever ~this~ deals combat damage to a player you may destroy a nonland, noncreature permanent that player controls.
6/6

>>53428077
>Reach through Mists+Peer through Depths+Sift through Sands
>U+1U+1UU=2UUUU
Also simpler to cast.

>>53426672
No, he's saying that Vial Smasher is most effective in 1v1. Stop reading into it.

>>53428115

Should be Exile, but yes.

>>53428115
>O-Kagachi, the Just as Boring
fixed that for you

He's a fucking dragon hydra god, he should be much more impactful than that.

>(lotsofmana)
>Indestructible, Flying
>When you cast <this> exile all other creatures.
>8/8

Or something to that effect.

>>53428151
He can't be indestructible. That's the whole fucking point of Kamigawa. that he's looking for the thing that makes him indestructible.

Also, that's boring as fuck.

>>53428115
8/10. The last two points would be for getting to 8/8 (perhaps at higher cost) and exiling rather than destroying (to fit Final Judgment, which is all we know about him)

>>53428182
>he's looking for the thing that makes him indestructible
No you dummy. That Which Was Taken is O-Kagachi's baby, which can make Konda invincible. It didn't stop O-Kagachi from being nigh-godlike.

>>53425002
He should have simply been
>When O-Kagachi enters the battlefield, exile all creatures.
It hits himself too, but now you have Final Judgement as a commander

>>53427928
For sure. That anon earlier said it best. Let him come in tapped and attacking for a cost if someone attacks you. And do something with divinity counters.

All spoilers seem to be from the same deck. I hope it has a good manabase

>>53428223
>a creature with stats it never uses
Plain retarded design

Or you can make him work with Arcane for some nostalgiafag points
>when you cast a spirit or arcane spell, if it's your turn, exile target nonland permanent
But he'd have to cost a fuckton

File: O-Kagachi Vengeful Kami.png (269KB, 375x523px) Image search: [Google]

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How about this for a better O-Kagachi?

>>53428220

It's complicated. Before That Which Was Taken was, well, taken it was the part of O-Kagachi that made it divine. But by being separate from O-Kagachi it became its own being, Kyodai, which did not want to remerge with O-Kagachi.

>>53428248
>Plain retarded design
well obviously, it was a joke

>>53425729
Yup. http://mtg.gamepedia.com/Ramos

>>53428260
I like the idea of bringing back divinity counters, but he doesn't do anything with them so what's the point of hoarding more than one?

>>53428260
Make it if he exiles a legend, not a commander.

>>53428265
Essentially, it was his Divinity Counter.

>>53427901
Wait, Bladewing the Risen is Rorix zombiefied?

>>53425649
Wizards should just openly admit that they don't know how to cost abilities in their own game anymore.

>>53428287
There isn't, really.
The ability to get the counter was kinda meant to symbolize him removing Konda and regaining That Which Was Taken to re-become indestructible.

>>53426743
I mean technically Ramos is Dominarian but yeah, some more obscure shit would be awesome.

>>53426867
Why not? They were already in the lore and maybe it'll shut the cat tribal fags up for a bit.

>>53427137
>what is Master Biomancer

>>53428344
Wizards should just openly admit that they don't know how to anything right

>>53428352
But he didn't remove Konda.

>>53428360

I thought Ramos was actually from Phyrexia, given it was one of Mishra's Dragon Engines that Urza reprogrammed?

>>53428217
easy

3WUBRG
O-Kagachi, the Even Less Boring
Legendary Creature - Dragon Spirit
Flying, Trample
Whenever you play a dragon or a spirit card you may exile a creature that attacked you during it's controller's last turn.
Whenever ~this~ deals combat damage to a player you may exile a nonland, noncreature permanent that player controls.
8/8

>OR

5WUBRG
O-Kagachi, the Probably Ill-advised
Legendary Creature - Dragon Spirit
Flying, Trample, Dragon Offering
Whenever you play a dragon or a spirit card you may exile a creature that attacked you during it's controller's last turn.
Whenever ~this~ deals combat damage to a player you may exile a nonland, noncreature permanent that player controls.
8/8

>>53428260
it's tempting to make this thing indestructible because it sucks having your big bad commander get taken out by a removal spell but i don't think that it really fits the flavor or makes it more fun

>>53428404
It was indeed one of Mishra's dragon engines, but IIRC he was built by the Thran, not Phyrexia.

>>53428412
The thing that still bums me about this is that O-Kagachi technically isn't a dragon, he's a kami.

>>53428412
as I said >>53428352 the indestructibility wasn't for dodging removal so much as it was to mirror That Which Was Taken's abilities

>>53428260
>>53428481
He's still a worse Avacyn abilities-wise.

>>53428499
>Oh no! This creature that makes only itself indestructible is worse than that other creature that makes literally everything indestructible! That automatically makes this one completely unplayable and useless in every way forever!

>>53428535
I thought that the intended goal was to make him not underwhelming.

>>53428479
he can be both. the whole divine dragon cycle are dragons and spirits so it's not that weird to make that leap. his physical form is certainly consistent with dragons.

>>53428565
>his physical form is certainly consistent with dragons
Or rather hydras.

>>53428554
Are you missing the fact that the custom one above is an 8/8 flying trampler that also exiles any one permanent every time it swings?
Just because there's another card that is better in some situations doesn't mean that a sometimes worse card should never be printed ever.
Would you rather there never ever be any other 8 or higher cmc creatures ever printed because they won't be literally Avacyn?

>>53428606
Tbh you could make him drop the divinity counter on a permanent of your choice for indestructibility.

>>53428593
>hydra
they usually don't have one dominant head. o-kagachi clearly has one main face. the rest of it's heads are smaller and snakelike. surely most dragons don't have a bunch of snakes attached to them but kamigawa spirits are generally confusing piles of nonsense.

>>53428606
Cards have their own niche. When a card's niche is encouraged upon by another card the one that fills it better remains and the worse one falls out of favor. EDH is slightly more forgiving since as a singleton format you may choose both a card and its directly inferior copy, but there isn't a situation where you should play the inferior card and not its directly superior copy.

>>53427594
56 cards, exactly as many as previous sets except spread out over 4 decks instead of 5.

Old decks only had 2 new legendary creatures per deck though, for a total of 10. In C17 we're already at 5 new legendary creatures in one deck, if that keeps up we'll have a total of 20.

>>53428664
So what you're saying is because mono-White Avacyn exists, there is no niche of anyone anywhere in the world that might want to play a 5 color spirit deck with the commander being the card for the BBEG of Kamigawa?

>>53425260
Not really much to say. Looks like a pretty decent Esper artifact goodstuff list. Not a top of the pack deck, and quite vulnerable to artifact hate, but definitely strong enough to run train on noobs.
My concern about decks like this is that someone in your metagame is going to pick up Arcum Dagasson, and then everyone will have to run hardcore artifact hate just to survive, and your decent deck will become unplayable trash in the crossfire.
As far as specific card suggestions are concerned, you should try and get lightning greaves and more instants, particularly if your metagame is power-creeping into combo-land. I don't really see what Sidri does here. Silas also seems like it could be something better, but maybe I'm underestimating him because I run him in the command spot of a 4-color aggro deck, where his role is basically to let me cast cranial plating.

>>53428698
>O-Kagachi
>BBEG of Kamigawa

Partners are better than single commander almost always

Hey guys! I'm an equality advisor from WOTC, and I want to exclusively reveal a new legendary commander from the upcoming Commander 2017 set! I'm sure you'll like it, it's a classic Magic: the Gathering™ villain that some of the oldies amongst you surely remember:

Yawgmoth, Lord of Phyrexia (1UR)
Legendary Creature - Zombie Horror

At the beginning of each player's end step, that player may draw a card if a player other than you lost life this turn.

1/4

>>53428790
people are still mad about Ludevic?

>>53428817
People are mad about O-Kagachi

>>53426363
Deadbridge Chant is value if t last to your next upkeep.
Eldritch Evolution is pretty great.
You could do with some more dorks, 4.27 is an insane average cmc.
You're running 8 artifact/enchantments so bane of Progress is sweet as well.
A big part of your curve being so wack is the overcosted boardwipes you're running. Try to get a Deluge at least, if you can.

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>>53428412
dragon offering is cute but the other one is better. i made a mockup of it.

>>53428778
At no level of the game are partners better than single commanders in any way.

>>53428664
>>53428499
This is trolling right

>>53428862
I still don't like the "attacked you" clause, he's not angry because somebody punched him, he's angry because a part of him got stolen. Therefore it should be assumed that he's already "vengeful" from when he enters the battlefield.

>>53428778
Not really. They aren't as powerful as some single commanders are and they can never be more than 4 color, so they can't do things like what Tazri or Scion do.

>>53428817
I'll never not be mad about Ludevic. WotC are terrible at what they do 90% of the time. Ramos and maybe Ur Dragon are the only interesting cards so far.

>>53428944
Taigam is pretty neat.

>>53428666
>Old decks only had 2 new legendary creatures per deck though

2016 Entropic Uprising
New Legends (4): Yidris, Thrasios, Vial, Kydele

2015 Plunder the Graves
New Legends (3): Meren, Jarad, Mazirek

2014 Peer Through Time
New Commanders (2): Teferi & Geralf

2013 Mind Seize
New Legends (2): Jeleva, Nekusar

2011 Heavenly Inferno
New Legends (3): Kaalia, Basandra, Tariel

If we get 5 new legends per deck this year we will be on par with 2016 and slightly ahead of 2011 and 2015. 2013 and 2014 were "grim" years for fresh commanders. In short, we're not really 'out of line' if we've seen all the dragons have to offer.

>>53428342
>Rorix Bladewing
>Bladewing the Risen
How did you never make that connection? Their heads even look the same.

>>53428817
I'll stop being mad about Ludevic when we get a Ludevic 2.0 that lives up to the character.

>>53428965
I forgot about him, but yeah, he is sorta neat. Rebound is a nifty ability.

>>53428992
I think people being confused about that many new legendaries per deck are forgetting that we're only getting 4 decks this year.

>>53428778
>2017 Spoilers
>Still spouting stale partner memes

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>>53428965
I'd be happier with him if he was Jeskai. They have so few decent legends. I'm still booty bothered that this isn't a legend.

>>53428717
It's a shared title with Konda, I assume.

>>53428897
"WUBRG: You may put O-Kagachi into play from your command zone. Activate this ability only if a creature an opponent controls dealt combat damage to you this turn."

>>53429094
Perfect.

>>53429094
>he's not angry because somebody punched him, he's angry because a part of him got stolen

>>53429049
>>53428912
>>53428778
Have you guys ever played vs a partners list with a decent pilot and level of investment?
I'm just wondering if the general impression of partners is because of experience, or because of theorycrafting.

>>53429094
what >>53429113 said

maybe make it "Activate this ability only if a permanent you control left the battlefield this turn." or something

How come Wasitora isn't white? I would have figured if they were going to make a cat legend that has 3 colors they would at least make it white.

>>53429139
How about abandoning the idea altogether and making something more Kamigawaesque instead.
>spirit and arcane
>divinity counters
>splice, epic, caring about cards in hand
All that jazz.

>>53429147
Because it's not a new character, it's an already established character from really old novels and stories.

>>53429131
I literally have never lost a game with my Vial Smasher Thrasios deck.

People who don't understand how broken Partners are, simply haven't figured out how to use them yet.

>>53429179
Well you would lose to pretty much every tier 1 deck and most tier 2 decks, so maybe you're playing with a bunch of Craw Wurm retards.

>>53429179
>People who don't understand how broken Thrasios is, simply haven't figured out how to use him yet

Fixed that for you

>>53429139
How about this, he is 5 cards (Head, body, left arm, right arm, legs) and when you have them all on the field you win the game, each are part of your command zone and each cost WUBRG to play, and if any of them get killed before you cast all of them, he comes into play fully assembled.

>This is satire you faggots

>>53429179
>things that never happened: the post

>>53429209
Sweet idea anon! I'm sure it would work well!

>>53429163
>How about abandoning the idea altogether and making something more Kamigawaesque instead.
that's why i added the "when you play a dragon or spirit card..." part. lots of kamigawa spirits have this sort of effect. i just replaced arcane with draggon for the sake of fitting the 5color dragon deck.

>>53429131
>I'm just wondering if the general impression of partners is because of experience, or because of theorycrafting.
What do you think? Look around this thread.

>>53429223
>i just replaced arcane with draggon for the sake of fitting the 5color dragon deck.
The mistake was including him in the dragon deck in the first place. They should've had a 5c Spirit deck for him.

>>53429197
Not everyone plays with $1000 decks you massive faggot.

>>53429179
I've also done well with Akiri+Silas glass cannon.
The normal Akiri build uses Bruse Tarl for consistent double strike, but I think that access to Tainted Strike, Cranial Plating, slip through space, more artifact lands and signets, etc, is worth it. I'm even considering cutting assault strobe.

>>53429197
>It's not food chain allies
>Therefore it's Craw Wurm
Go back to Legacy general.

Oh are we doing the "Partners are bad" meme again?

>>53429284
You can approach a competitive level with way less than that.

>>53429292
>I don't lose with my shit deck, so it's good
>buuuuuuut I'm only playing against literal children

>>53429241
I don't know, that's why I was asking.

>>53429329
We went over this a few threads ago. An anon insisted that partners were bad because he couldn't see how any of them could be synergistic together. Failing to realize that it's not about that, mind you, he went on and on about how they aren't big Timmy cards therefore they suck.

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>>53429319

>>53429377
Actually Vial-Smasher was underrepresented at a competitive level in Dual, but it was by far the superior control deck of the aggro-heavy format.

But it's pretty fucking obvious
>>53429319
>>53429292
>>53429284
>>53429197
>>53429179
>>53429131
>>53428778
>>53428912
>>53429049
weren't talking about Duel Commander in the Elder Dragon Highlander General.

>>53429131
Yes, I have. There are still regular commanders that are strong enough to beat out partners' flexible. I play a decently tuned Brago deck that consistently wins out against a friend's Thrasios + Kydele deck. He's a competent player and his deck has some money in it (more than mine). Another friend uses Vial Smasher and Tana and despite being decently good, he doesn't often win. Partners > single commander is not a very strong statement. Most good commanders are better than any individual partner, and the really good commanders are good enough to beat out paired partners as well. More colors and an extra card in hand isn't always enough to beat even a good dual color commander. Quality, not quantity.

>>53429303
It's not "partners are bad," it's "partners aren't by default better than single commanders" like one tard claimed.

>>53429377
>He thinks what's strong in a format with 20 life and one opponent is applicable to real EDH.

Have fun with your lava spikes and tarmogoyfs.

>>53429179
>People who don't understand how broken Partners are, simply haven't figured out how to use them yet

Or maybe they simply just aren't broken. They're good and give you a lot of flexibility, but they aren't automatically better because of it. Commanders like Prossh, Tazri, Arcum, Yisan, Brago, Derevi, etc are as good as they are because they fill a niche in a way that no other commander does. Thrasios is the only busted partner because he's an easy win con in the command zone who can also further your game plan when you're not ready to go off.

>C17 won't have new partners
Feels bad man

>>53429556
You'll never see Planeswalkers, Experience counters or Partners again.

>>53429377
Saying that Vial is banned in Dual Commander is worth about as much to EDH as saying that Bloodbraid Elf is banned in Modern. (or the fact that Wild Nacatl did some time on the Legacy banned list)

>>53429583
Never is a bit much, I'd say (people said as much about abilities that work in the command zone, and here we are with Ur Dragon), but they won't come around very often.

>>53429556
It's for the best.

>>53429583
I would really like more exp counters % planeswalker commanders again.

>>53428992
Jarad was not new, and partners are an exception rather than the rule. C13-15 had a very definite pattern going on.

>>53429672
I think Experience was a good idea that was executed poorly on Kalemne and Blaxos. Ezuri was also a little weak, but he was decent. Ideally, making them as strong as Mizzix or maybe a little weaker than Meren would be the goal. Meren's mistake was being able to add a card to your hand if you didn't have enough counters to reanimate it.

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Would a split card like pic related give Ramos 3 +1/+1 counters if you only cast one side?

>>53429793
Lol 5 mana for 3+X counters on something that removes counters for mana.

Ramos is going to be so fucked.

How many Dragon Tribal decks can you have before your friends start calling you Sarkhan and/or a dragon furry. Is it more than one?

>>53429882
More than one.

Do Storm decks need infinite mana? How do they generally cast tons of stuff in one turn? Thinking Ramos storm would be some silly shit. Can use his ability mid combat as you're swinging to dump 10 mana into your pool then use that mana to cast some combat tricks which will probably get him back to 5 +1/+1 counters at least and then you can play a storm thing in second main phase with your lands.

>>53429916
>Do Storm decks need infinite mana?
No rarely do they unless you use aether flux reservoir to win in a dedicated INF Mana deck but that's a different deck altogether
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tjMiHEuWzG4

>>53429916
What does any of that dumb shit have to do with storm?

>>53429793
No. As long as a split card is on the stack, it only has the qualities of the side that was cast.
If a fuze spell is cast with both sides, it has all the qualities of both sides added together.

>>53429916
Generally they have finite-but-big or repeating mana. For instance, Paradox Engine isn't strictly infinite but it might as well be as long as you have spells. Having Rituals, mana doublers, cost reducers and.or "Free" spells like Frantic Search builds storm while being mana positive. Shit tons of draw and Dream Halls can also do it.

>>53429965
Just lots of spells cast...

>>53429916
>How does storm generally cast tons of stuff
Mana rocks and untappers. Candelabra of Tawnos is some silly ass shit. They're usually blue involved, and they get High Tide on demand. The issue with storm is just knowing when to pull the trigger, something that's complicated because you spent 6 mana on a big goofy fucking dragon that will get killed because it has no inherent protection.
Storm operates under super tight mana.

>>53427819
It's a fate thing.

What are the other 3 decks going to be? Will they be 5 colors as well?

O-Kagachi fix

>O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami
>3WUBRG
>Legendary Creature - Dragon Spirit
>Flying, Trample
>Whenever ~ enters the battlefield or attacks, exile target permanent if that permanent's controller attacked you during his or her last turn.
>8/8

>>53429916
When I'm winning through storm with Melek, I usually make infinite mana with a combo:
Reiterate+Reset
Reiterate+Turnabout
Dualcaster Mage+Riptide Lab+Reset
Dualcaster Mage+Riptide Lab+Turnabout
Or I go off with Paradox Engine, sometimes "manually" casting spells and winging it until I have enough storm, but usually with Capsize, making infinite mana with rocks that add UU4+1.

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Commander Ain’t free. The game and banned list gotta be improved by the unbanning of cards. Wizards of the Coast aka “WOTC” is not my format leader. they dont understand the spirit of EDH and probbaly filthy spikes as well :DD. UNBAN recurring nightmare not BAN mana crypt ok. praise sol ring

How you do people waste so much money on EDH decks lmao, I've built 10 solid decks online that hold up in cockatrice and none of them cost more than $150 total. Do you guys just filter "mythic rare" and dump everything in the colors that you can or something?

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>>53430674
>How do you people waste so much money on [INSERT FORMAT] decks lmao, I've build 10 solid decks online that hold up on cockatrice and none of them cost more than $150 total. Do you guys filter "mythic rare" and dump everything in the colors that you can or something?

>>53430674
The answer to what makes an expensive deck expensive is always manabase
>2 fetches + cavern of souls + ABUR dual
Almost 200 bucks right there

>>53430793
None of that is even remotely necessary and provides MAYBE a .1% advantage.

>>53429556
Partners were shit.

>>53430646
You OK? Half of your little America Bear parody was properly absurd but the other half wasn't even really unreasonable.

>>53430853
Depends on the deck.

4C and 5C decks without Fetchlands are at a ridiculous disadvantage. Even stuff like Titania is far weaker without Fetchlands.

>>53430882
Sheldon detected

>>53430674
>not fouling out your decks and using every available masterpiece card
Disgusting.

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>>53430921
>ever using the absolutely ugly as sin abominations known as invocations

>>53430646
That's strangely fitting

>>53430921
Fouling indeed. I'm not a fan of the Masterpiece and Invocation borders at all.

>>53430959
It's like gaudy jewelry. You don't use them because they look nice, you use them because they're expensive

>>53430984

Inventions look pretty amazing, in my opinion. Definitely like custom one-ofs made by a master craftsmen.

>>53430984
>Freudian slip in my shitposting
I don't mind the masterpiece swords though, but the rest look pretty bad.

>>53425084

Yeah, I'm in the same boat. Hoping these spoilers for it are legit because Dragon Tribal lets me really play Commander at maximum Timmy levels so any new tech is welcome. Also after playing plenty of lean, trim decks in other formats playing a deck that just involves throwing dragons all over is cathartic.

And I'm hoping for some new, cheap Dragon tokens.

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Man, they're really making up for last year. These commanders seem really fun.

What are some of the dankiest, jankiest cards to add into Atraxa?

Been thinking of going full Energy with her, though I'm sure there's other silly stuff available.

>>53431371
Parallax Wave, Parallax Tide, Parallax Nexus

>>53430959
That's a funny way of spelling "Aftermath"

>>53431448
The aftermaths are complete shit too, but we were speaking specifically Masterpieces.

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>>53431448
Some anon made this way back when Dusk//Dawn was first spoiled, and it works soo much better visually.

>sit down for some nice friendly casual EDH with my friends
>playing my kruphix deck
>yidris player goes turn one scalding tarn, fetch R/B dual land, sol ring, pass
>welp
>land go
>yidris slams wheel of fortune on turn 2 while making edgy chaos noises
>discard my hand full of lands and ramp spells
>draw a fresh seven with bunch of high cmc shit and no lands
>his next turn he fucking reanimates the sire of insanity he discarded
>pack my shit up and go grocery shopping
that was a well spent day off. gee willickers.

yeah I mad. fuck you brandon that deck is gay.

>>53430674
>none of them cost more than $150
Post them.

>>53431371
Ezuri+Meren+Blaxos

>>53430674
Some stuff that did not use to be expensive has become expensive over time. I'm not sure if I'd be super excited to buy Cavern of Souls for $40 today, but I was plenty okay with buying them for $10 back when they came out (and I just actually opened a couple).

>>53425529
could have easily splashed Red to have a Jeskai spellslinger commander. He's basically an infinite turns/ETBs deck with legs.
>>53425649
now THIS I can get behind as a 5 color commander. Even if you don't use his mana ability, he's a hilarious voltron commander. If you do use his mana ability, he can be a spellslinger commander.

>>53426457
>elves are in painful need of good tribal commanders

Are you stupid?

>>53431939
Name one elf commander who can use both Lorwyn and Shadowmoor's elves. Go on, I'll wait.

Goblins are the same, they have good tribal bosses (well, Krenko at least) but their best option that encompasses the full range (Shattergang) is weaksauce.

>>53431477
I know I'm the odd one out but I don't think the Invocations are THAT bad. Their name and typeline can be a bit hard to read (but not as bad in the flesh as in online images) but the rules text is fine and they're thematic as fuck and do a good job evoking what they want to evoke. They're sort of like the Future Sight frames: they're not really good, but neither are they exactly bad, they're more just doing their own thing (though they are a little less practical than futureshifted)

Why is Shattering Spree $5 but By Force is 12 cents?

>>53431961
Anafenza

>>53432010
Availability, use in Legacy.

>>53432019
>Who isn't an elf.

Nice try, though, mechanically she works rather nicely.

I'd actually kind of like to see what the same paradigm that got us our dragon legends would do with Abzan Elves I could live with..
>An Abzan Elf Tribal Commander
>Two Abzan commanders who happen to be elves
>A Selesnya Commander and a Golgari Commander who might have some synergy with elves or be elves but are mostly doing their own things.

Though I guess you could replace "Elf" with anything and it would still be a decent layout.

>>53432010
shattering spree hasn't been reprinted since it's first print run over a decade ago. by force is literally brand new. shattering spree also has a major advantage that it's harder to counter because you need a counterspell for each copy whereas you can hit by force with force of will or daze.

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>>53432000
My complaint isn't so much the readability (though that does factor into it), but that the frames themselves are xbox-hueg and the actual area for the art is actually smaller than on normal cards.
Masterpieces should always be Expedition or Invention style imo, always full art and never with art that's actually smaller than normal cards.
The readability problems don't help, and neither do the uncolored mana symbols (they said they'd never do again after the original Mirrodin block because of readability problems) and the actual color of the spells (being only fucking banners along parts of the sides of the cards, super easy to miss) and the frames in general having way too much going on.
They're just super ugly and nothing but eyesores.

If they had made them even slightly less overdesigned, like maybe pic related (some anon's random edit), they would've been a hundred times better than the shit we got.

other than that green mana dude are there any commanders who make great use of a lot of mana? I opened an extraplanar lens

>>53432117
kruphix, god of lots of fucking mana.

>>53431544
Better but not good

>>53432010
Besides being harder to counter, it costs literally half mana at X=1, which is its primary use outside of EDH

>>53432019
>>53432092
>>53432244

Also, Shattering Spree is pretty neat looking.

I wish I had a foil.

>>53432130
that's pretty cool. colours i dont mind either, thanks

>>53432288
>>53432288
>>53432288

New thread posted with updated OP.