Warhammer 8th Edition Article of the day thread

>>53408059
Looks like they're still trying to apologize to chaos players for the awful faction focus they got.

Yay, Forge World!

That mean I wont play with it or against it....make 40k Kaos dreds good huh?

>>53408059
So, why would you ever replace both claws for drills? There doesn't seem to be any advantage, as you still have 2 ccws either way, and it'll probably cost points to do so.

>>53408284
Clearly the extra damage and rend.

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>Mark of Chaos on vehicles too

Marks are not going to be straight buff anymore, but now we know vehicles are getting symbiosis with command abilities and such.

>>53408305
having two weapons doesn't work that way.

If you have a lightning claw and a powerfist on your captain you aren't making 2 lightning claw and 2 powerfist attacks you are just making 4 of one or the other.

>>53408342
Thanks 7th ed rulebook.

Oh cool, my free Chinacast Leviathan is worth something to my Chaos Army now.

>>53408284
They'll cost different points in matched play.

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>>53408059
>ten rubric marines are just as good as a Leviathan
That's totally reasonable, right?

>>53408493

Who claimed this was the case?

>>53408059
Is this what they are calling the Decimator now?

>>53408476
But that's what I mean, why would you ever buy 2 claws? Just buy 1 and make all your attacks with it, it's not a specialist weapon like before, you still get the +1 attack

>>53408342
Yeah, gonna need an 8e citation for that claim.

>>53408542
>Rubrics: power 8
>Leviathan: power 16
Gee, I wonder.

>>53408493
It seems about right, yes

>>53408542
He's talking about the power level of the Leviathan, 16, which
a) is equal to 2 squads of 5 Rubrics, not 10 as a unit (which would be 14), aka MSU
b) is not meant to be 100% stricto balance, which is what points are for - power level is a rough approximation of what feels "right" for casual games

>>53408607
But it'd look cooler.
Otherwise, why would you ever buy twin drills during the previous edition? With the different stats you'd be a fool to reduce your response options there just the same.

>>53408588
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Leviathan-Dreadnought-with-Siege-Claw-and-Siege-Drill

>>53408648

Yeah but there's almost certainly a correlation between power level and base point cost, given both are balancing mechanisms.

>>53408493
10 rubrics are power rating 14 according to that.

>>53408712
Oh shit actually, this is actually somewhat confirmation of increasing unit size being cheaper than buying a new squad.

>>53408493
The Leviathan is a forgeworld model. Being broken and/or undercosted is part of the course.

How quickly does this wreck a knight in combat?

>2+ to hit
>2+ to wound
>-4 AP
>4 wounds per hit

>>53408753
>current year
>thinking FW=OP

>>53408059
I wonder how much points will it cost. Because it looks better than IK at this point, with it's only downside being 10 less Wounds, but with better saves (armor and inv in melee) and Wound regeneration that make up for it.

>>53408724
You are forgetting the sorcerer.

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>>53408753
>part of the course

>>53408724
Not really, It's just that the base squad comes with an Aspiring Sorcerer while adding 5 rubrics doesn't give you a second psyker with a power weapon.

>>53408761
Have you seen the newly released Leviathan Datascroll? Now confront it with three units of Primaris Marine Intercessor or two of Thousand sons

>>53408761
That thing is a better Knight for two third of the cost.

Surely it's perfectly balanced.

Oh boy more pay to win garbage

>>53408648
In a q&a they said power level is assuming a kitted out unit not a minimum one.

>>53408794
Okay, or you could confront a regular siege dreadnought with three units of 2w sternguard only with kraken bolts or two units of thousand sons right now. This clearly proves that dreadnoughts are OP.

>>53408828
Knights have far more damage output and 10 more wounds, it's fairly costed.

>>53408755
Depends how you understand "reaper chainsword does automatic 6 dmg per successful attack".

If it's "automatic 6 wounds for merely hitting with a previously D class weapon and fuck all your opponent's toughness and saves", then the knight wrecks. If it is automatic as in "you do not roll for dmg, but still have to pass all the saves". then the knight is fucked by a machine 1/10 it's size. Which would be both dumb and hilarious.

>>53408794
>Compare it to two other units, neither whom are meant for anti-vehicle roles
Try putting it up against dedicated AT of equal power, and it will probably seem more fair. Especially since all of its weaponry outside of the butcher cannon is pretty short ranged.
>>53408828
Cost in terms of power level, which has been explicitly said to not be an accurate measurement, but just meant for quickly throwing together a casual game.


I'm not gonna claim FW is the messiah of game balance, but you anons are being pretty retarded.

>>53408342
You divide the attacks you have between the weapons available to you, this isn't that hard.

Personally I'm just peeved that so many weapons you roll the number of shots and the damage it does then the butcher array just has 8 shots doing 2 damage each that also gets extra damage later from the new morale system.

>>53408943
It likely will do mortal wounds. Leviathans are fucking huge for dreads though, and right now if one gets the charge off vs a knight it can easily kill it in one turn.

>>53408939
Knights have worse saves (and no inv saves in melee), worse to hit rolls and no option for free wounds regeneration. This fucker has better shooting stats, melee stats and a Heavy D3 S9 Ap-5 2dmg to regular, 5dmg to big things gun.

A knight with a chainsword will still likely win, but on average rolls on both sides it's gonna be seriously crippled by a manlet robot.

>>53408943
It obviously means Damage6 on its profile, not 6 mortal wounds, which would be insane.

>>53409033
The robot has to get there and we finally know what a meltagun does. The Knight that we've seen also isn't dedicated melee like the lev would have to be to win.

>>53409053
The chainsword was a D class weapon. You know, "one hit and your land raider is dead" weapon. 6 mortal wounds do not sound very crazy at all.

>>53408607

I can't confirm at the moment, but iirc you no longer get a bonus attack for having two CCW.

>>53409203
You don't normally but this dread specifically does.

>>53409099
There are damage 6 weapons in AoS, its probably 6 normal damage straight up.

What is the difference between a faction keyword and a general keyword?

I get why Chaos and Heretic Astartes are in the top, and why Vehicle is in the bottom, but take "Hellforged" for example, why is that in the general keywords not the faction?

>>53409232
Faction keywords mainly limit what you can take. Regular keywords are more specific to units.

>>53409232
I believe Faction Keywords matter for army composition (i.e. Chaos army if all the units have the Chaos Faction and stuff like that) while normal Keywords do not.

>>53409232

Occam's Razor would say that it's because there are units outside of the CSM faction that will have the hellforged keyword.

>>53408753
>>53408761
Wtf is with this hate on forge world models? I just got back into the game, and Forge World seems to be the only source for models that I actually like the LOOK of even. Fuck regular dreads, Leviathan and Legion specific contemptors are way nicer looking.

>>53409327
>Wtf is with this hate on forge world models?

Poorfags getting mad they can't afford that sweet resin.

Contemptors and Leviathans are utter shit though. Boxnaughts or bust.

>>53409327
>

It's autism.

Forgeworld units have historically been overcosted or underpowered compared to GW rules. It's really only with the advent of the Riptide variants that FW units began to become consistently overpowered.

>>53409349
naw man, Leviathan dreadnought all the way. OG dreads are only cool as like Bjorn or Tankred.

>>53408943
dudes with melta guns are a machine one tenth the size of a tank and tanks die to it fampai :^)

>>53409232
In a detachment you must have all the units with at least a common faction keyword, and you gain faction bonuses for each keyword. For example if all your units have IMPERIUM, ADEPTUS ASTARTES and ULTRAMARINE you gain the Imperium, adeptus astartes, and ultramarine bonuses, but if you want you can mix all the IMPERIUM units.

Common keywords are separated because otherwise you could do a detachment of INFANTRY with orks, Necrons and eldar and all the shit you want.

>>53409099
D weapons should never have existed outside of apocalypse.
This is a glorious change

>>53408964
It really does seem to be forgeworld will do its own thing again this edition, the lack of randomness on the datasheet really demonstrate that. Meaning that yeah, if the base game is actually perfectly balanced as gw are claiming it is, FW stuff is going to be OP as shit again.
It's the T8, 2+ save and 4+/5+ invuln here that's killing me. T8 makes it immune to mass smaller-arms fire (eg, rubrics), 5+ shooting invuln makes melta, railguns, and other big single-shot guns so much less reliable against it, and 4+ melee invuln (WHY does it have this?) make it so even hundreds of points of power klaws won't be able to take it down.
It has no weaknesses, and it's nearly half the points, roughly, of an imperial knight.
Fuck's sake forgeworld. The worst thing is that 90% of FW's stock is space marines and we only have confirmation of space marine stuff getting updated at launch.

>>53408893
>pay to win
>in a tabletop miniatures game

Are you fucking retarded or something?

>>53409793
Forgeworld makes the brains of poorfags short circuit

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>>53408059
>Traitor leviathan
>Can bear marks
>can have legion keyword

MHU DIIIIICK HAAAAAAAAAAAAA !

I need one for my WE RIGHT THE FUCK NOW

>>53409327
Forgeworld writers have always had no connection with everything that was made by GW. Which means that FW stuff always was either grossly underpowered or overpowered, with basically nothing balanced. Of course people that use FW stuff always bring the underpowered stuff as example while calling the others poorfags, while people that don't use FW look at how the overpowered stuff is the only that actually get used.

Look at Age of Sigmar for the same situation. 99% of the FW stuff is shit, while things like the Mournghul and that chaos wizard that makes units fly are basically autoinclude in competitive lists.

>>53409360
You forget back when that 400pts stompa was legal.

Also, rapier arrays and quadmortars are blatantly overpowered.

Otherwhise I agree, FW shits out cool and fluffy rules but usually they are underperforming at the very best.

>>53408607
You may have to evenly split your attacks between weapons. That's how it worked in 2nd Edition. But otherwise, yeah, there's no point in doing both arms.

>>53409327
Forgeworld models are beautiful, but they don't have much concept of balance. Either you have 2000 pt flying rhinos that are pretty much unusable, or you have Tetras, which were autoincludes for years after they released, due to just doing pathfinder's job better than pathfinders. Other units like Zagstrukk actively made bad armies competitive, so it was a very common thing until escalation and 7ed for FW units to be blanket banned, because if you let people bring overpriced beautiful garbage, they'll want to bring the broken as shit stuff too.
Only after 7ed really got going and formations became the new competitive power base were FW units regularly allowed as FW don't do formations, because they're always at least 3 editions behind for everyone but space marines, meaning the really broken fw stuff was on even footing with formations (if their rules still worked)

>>53409733
>immune
You mean wounded on a 6+.

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>>53409964
>quadmortars
>tfw fielding two full batteries in The Purge detachment alongside 2 wyvern squadrons
>tfw shitting out 30+ ignoring cover small blast templates a turn

The best kind of feel. I really hope they still wreck shit in 8th edition.

>>53410017
so...people get butt hurt when they lose to something in that is part of the game.

That is why people hate forge world?

Can't wait to walk into a game store with my mostly Forge World army and see the reactions I get if this is how people are about it.

Going to get Knight Porphyrion to add to my Sons of Horus army that I have been working on

>>53410104
Because game balance exists and forge world can fuck it up, yeah that is why some people are unhappy

>>53410019
Pretty much immune, equal points of rubrics with flamers in 8" is them at maximum firepower, 35 hits, 6 wounds, 3 unsaved wounds. And rubrics are the closest infantry massed fire gets to being anti tank, guardsmen will be wounding on 6s and have to then deal with the 2+ save, and then it'll just eat them, regaining all the wounds it lost.

Equal points of anything cannot kill this thing without sincere luck, as far as we know. Maybe fusion blaster crisis suits will be a dime a dozen, but meltaguns on space marines are now 27 pts each so I doubt it. If we say 1 marine with a meltagun costs as much as a rubric (when they'll probably be a lot more) it's 10 shots, 6.7 hits, 3.3 wounds, 2.2 unsaved, 9.8 wounds. Still won't even get it down to its lowest damage level, and again, that many meltamarines will cost at least 100pts more than the dread.
It's just too tough for a unit that can shit out mortal wounds and ap -5 wounds 2 at a time to termies, while getting bonus shots, or 5 at a time to anything else.

>>53410104
>Can't wait to walk into a game store with my mostly Forge World army and see the reactions I get if this is how people are about it
That's pretty much it. It got less pronounced recently, but a FW army will still have people apprehensive, because there are still a billion ways to break a FW list in a hurry.

>>53410197
Don't forget the bullshit BS2+/WS2+ that makes the guns utterly murderous even on the move.

>>53410169
>Game balance exists in a get game

That is some intense optimism right there.

>>53410197
Consodering we don't know points costs for most things all we have right now is pointless conjecture. And if it's like current leviathan rules then it's 1 per army unless you have a warsmith/tech-marine.

>>53410340
It's not really pointless though, assuming rubrics stay within 20-30 pts and don't go all the way up to about 50 we have a rough idea of how much 1 powerlevel is. If space marine meltaguns are 27 points each we can generally assume 10pt meltas are going to be pretty damn rare, and only on already expensive things.
If this is the standard for big things (and gw has stated that this was only on the verge of being superheavy) we're going to need fabius bile in every army to deal with this shit.
And 1 per army only helps in big games, it does nothing in 750-1000 pt games.

>>53408493
>>53408059
Do we know what the unit symbols in the corner mean? Presumably the dread's is heavy support; what's the "play button" triangle, something like elites?

>>53410530
Power level assumes the unit in question is kitted out and not at base cost.

>>53410648
The same symbols that have been in the game for a while? Rubrics are troops.

>>53408493
well, I assume troops are stil scoring right? Also Leviathan can't kill much body as the troops can.

Apples and oranges really.

>>53410197
27 pts is for a multi melta, not melta gun.

>>53410699
It can take 2 butcher canon arrays, or 2 ribaudkins. With 2+ to hit it can definitely kill as many dudes as a squad of rubrics. And we really don't know how objectives will work.
>>53410660
So a base leviathan will cost less than a fully kitted out squad of rubrics? This only reinforces my point, it can essentially do whatever the fuck it wants turn 1 and 2 as nothing can realistically stop it in that time.
It's significantly tougher than a knight with much better shooting than a crusader for 70% of the cost. This is indefensible.

>>53410660
Forgive my ignorance; 3rd was the last edition I played.

>>53410862
It's not significantly tougher than a knight. The cc save is good, but 9 less wounds is notable. It also moves 4 inches slower and it's pretty vulnerable to screening units because it doesn't have very many attacks (no stomp). The comparison to rubrics is rough, but troops have always been overcosted.

Hopefully. HOPEFULLY. Things like ruins or objectives will bring infantry back into relevance. A marine tactical squad has been a fucking awful investment since like 2nd Ed. We're they even good in 2nd?

>>53408753
par for the course... dolt

>>53410056
you are a special cancer... i suggest bleach

>>53408493
Its weird the math for warpflamers v. Levi

D6(3.5) hits * 19 models
66.5 hits
1/6 wound
11 wounds
4+ save after rend
5.5 wounds

assuming it took Grav...

4D3
8 shots
assuming moving, 6 hit
5 wound
3 wounds unsaved.

These actually do kind of balance out in the end assuming both are moving to get into melee.

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>>53408753

>>53410222

How can you even say this with a straight face when the main 40k product line contains shit like the eldar codex?

ITT: All this WAACfags butthurt because someone pointed out they use broken things resorting to call everyone else poor.

>>53411932
>broken
sure thing buddy

>>53411921

Because if FEELS wrong, and all the logic in the world ends where feelings begin.

>>53409349
>contemptors
>shit
Opinion discarded.

Help me here.

I haven't played 40K since early 5th editions. I played Necrons at the time and got soured on the game very quickly because of how the community was reacting to the introduction of flyers. I loved the look of them, they were crucial to my strategy but I was constantly losing sports or getting friendly games refused for bringing them.


Is that kind of attitude still prevalent in the community? 8E seems appealing to me. I started playing Warmahordes and didn't really look back until various life events forced me to take a break from minis games. Mk3 made WMH unattractive (PP is proving to be as retarded as GW's worst moments) so I've been playing small skirmish games with tight rulesets because of how wonderful it is not to have to argue about the intent of a rule - follow what it says and move on. This in my opinion was always 40K's weakness and why I moved on from the game.

However, I feel myself hungering for a game on the scale of 40K and 8E seems like it might be a good point to jump on. As a competitive player am I still going to feel unwelcome in the game? I like painting, I'm friendly when I play, but I have little mental tolerance for the guys who like to drone on about how they hobble themselves because they think a certain unit is unfair. I want to actually play the game.

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>>53408059
Damn I'm excited to see this. Hopefully marks will still do stuff in 8th aside from allowing commands to be made through the keyword system. Maybe all legions and loyalist first founding chapters will get their unique termies as well. Chaos will have battle bunny dreads, time for some monty python dumbassery when I play the local Black Templars and Imperial Fist guys

>>53413803
40k got much, much, much worse after fifth. Attitudes about not playing people because of what they were taking got worse as did the ludicrous imbalance and rules fights. The game is barely playable as is and makes PP look like genius's.

No one knows if 8th is a solution to that but it appears that they have recognized the problem and are trying to course correct in the only way possible, by literally scrapping the entire game and restarting.

But because of that no one knows if it'll be good. It looks way better, but it's still gw so it could still be wildly broken. We don't know yet.

>>53413803
6ed and 7ed were commonly considered to be the worst editions due to imbalance. Necron flyers were dirty at the end of 5ed, but we've had to endure worse things, like Decurion. People will still get annoyed in 7ed if you bring WAAC stuff, but at least you know you're WAACing when you're bringing formations, and people in general seem to have mostly gotten used to horrendous imbalance.
Just ask people beforehand if it's okay to bring stuff of certain power, but never expect it. We don't know how balanced the game is going to be in 8ed, so play cautiously competitively. Get to know your meta first, and which players like competitive games and which don't. Khorne bloodbound players will never enjoy competitive games but ynnari players will get annoyed if you complain about their brokenness.
Talk to people. But W848

>>53408284
it's probably just to allow people who've modeled it with two drills to still be WYSIWYG.

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>Every 40k teaser 404's in a few hours
>Except the Forge World one

forge world confirmed shit

>>53408059
Grav-flux bombard is absolute fucking beast mode now.

>>53414882
also the plague marines one that's been up since yesterday

>>53413378
On a competitive standpoint ? yhea, they are.Only the mortis pattern with double kheres is worth taking but then your realise that you would be better off with a Sicaran anyway

>>53414949
But only fires D3 shots... IDK, I prefer the close combat option. Especially if it benefits for MoK/WE legion rules.

>>53410056
You. You I like.

>>53408059
>Warhammer 8th edition thread.
I got half way through OP before I realized you didn't mean WHFB, anon.

You should specify that its 40k when you make a thread.

>>53415793
>WHFB

It's dead anon, just let it go

>>53415890

New RPG out next year.

Sure is getting a lot of new games for a 'dead' franchise.

>>53416029
Oh the franchise is still alive yes. WHFB 8th edition is dead in the water tho

>>53415628
>But only fires D3 shots

Sure but thats 5 damage per hit, an average of 10 wounds with no saves against a Leman Russ or a Knight is pretty good.

I dont think its the best but compared to how clunky it used to be I think its a perfectly viable choice.

>>53415628
Have you looked at that damage value? At WS2+ that fucking thing can take down a Leman Russ in one salvo or severely cripple a Knight

>>53416537
That leaves a very expensive model almost totally unable to deal with infantry, though. Any massive point sink kitted in a purely anti tank role is going to be able to do that. If a power point is like 16 regular points that thing is 260 points of pure anti tank. That's like a broadside squadron.

It's pretty good, but with two grav canons it can easily be tarpitted. Or just straight up murdered in mellee. Or it'd just be a waste of points against an army of light vehicles and infantry.

>>53409964
IA 13 literally won like three major US tournies.....wtf are you on about?

>>53417859
Forge world has been around for 30 years and has been good for like 2, and only for a handful of models out of thousands.

>>53417581
Except for the two flamers and the bombard's ability to fire multiple times dependant on unit sizes, right?
Also, you can't swap both arms for guns, thank fuck. One is plenty to do so. Two bombards would do insane damage.

>>53417581
>I have no idea what I am talking about.

>>53413803
>necron flyers
>crucial to my strategy

Red Flag.

>>53413950
>Attitudes about not playing people because of what they were taking got worse


There is literally nothing wrong with this. The community self-regulates, with varying levels of success, in an attempt to curb the ridiculous imbalances and power creep. Most people do not want to have to run a WAAC list in order to beat "that guy" who always runs a WAAC/FoTM list, so the majority agrees to simply not play against certain lists and if "that guy" wants to get games he needs to learn to curb the cheese.

>>53417581
>(d3 per five model in target unit) shots
or
>2d3 shots that cause Mortal Wounds
or
>8 shots
And on top of that you also get 2d6 autohitting flamer shots, a savage melee profile and a melta shot on the side. I feel the damn thing won't be bothered by infantry that much.

>>53413950
From a rules perspective yeah 5th was one of the cleanest rules sets I played (tail end of 3rd to 7th) but on the flip side it gave us some terrible and bland codecies and and seemed to be one of the most stagnant mono build periods for tourneys, here's to hoping 8th finally gives us the smoother gameplay akin to 5th while keeping armies looking like something we would see in lore
>Hope is the first step onto the road of disappointment

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>this monstrosity is supposedly equal to two 5 man squads of thousand sons rubrics
>for the Leviathan Dreadnoughts 14 regenerating wounds and a myriad of more weapons at S8 T8 Rubrics only have 10 wounds and a shitty S4 boltgun for each
>"8th edition is gonna be different! All units are gonna be balanced and usable!"
>Mfw there are 40k fags that actually believed this

>>53420551
Plz stop shattering our dreams by saying what we all realized

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>>53411794
This hurt me.

>>53420551

Go fuck yourself. Forgeworld is always broken, we could still get decent balance with the GW stuff.

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>>53420684
>we could still get decent balance with the GW stuff.

>>53409314

Ding ding

>Soul Grinder
>Blight Drones
>Skull Cannons
Ect

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>>53409894
>REEEEEEEEEEE

>>53420551

Power level isn't matched play points cost my nig

>>53420894
Yeah but it might as well be. It's a ballpark figure for balance and if it isnt a system for balancing games then it serves no purpose.

>>53408724
>>53408784
Plus with the way detachments work more discrete units means more flexibility in how you get bonus command points, on top of that psyker.

I remember everyone shitted on me when I said that whatever they decide to make OP in this edition they will give them fixed attack values.

Looks like I was right. Expect to see Tau and Eldar weapons getting 3-4 fixed damage.

>>53413803
>>53413950
>>53417977
People seem to forget that, just because you want to win, doesn't mean the other guy has to have a bad time.

>>53422232
>Looks like I was right.

Honestly, the only fixed values we've seen so far is on the upper end of vehicle weapons. Like the reaper chainsword going with a flat 6.

Leviathan will probably cost 300+ points. Land Raider for 250 point cant fuck his shit up in 2 turn with his 4 lascannons and 2 assault cannons.

>>53408059
What will be in the index books? Are we getting HH shit in 40k yet?

>>53408493
10 Rubric marines in 7th was about 300 points.

A Leviathan Siege Dreadnought was 270 base , weapons and upgrades brought it to 300+.

Rubric marines were admittedly overcosted in 7th , but so was anything not a scat bike or in a formation. It's hard to tell how effective they will be in 8th but I imagine much more so considering overall power level and bullshit will be cut down on.

So it's not a bad eye ball guess by power level which is only meant to be a simplified points system for casuals.

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>>53413803

40K suffers from horrendously written rules and serious imbalance issues. This has always been the case and has only escalated to ridiculous levels recently. Personally I don't believe warhammer is or ever will be a good competitive game and don't play it as such , as much as I enjoy competitive play, but I can understand players who do.

Players as a result tend to 'selg balance's within their communities . This form of balancing is pretty random and iffy as it tends to be based on people's emotions as much as it is any effort to have a decent game. Definitions of what's overpowered and what's fair can vary wildly based on individuals experiences, local communities and metagame and whatever next codex/edition is around the corner.

I do feel sorry for a player like yourself who researches what's good and attempts to build a competitive army by the games rules and then gets rejected by the community who have decided those rules are imbalanced.

They do seem to be trying to fix this in 8th edition , the rules are going to be unified so power creep won't hit so hard and everything should be on the same level, at least at the start. They've also made it easier for them to 'patch' imbalances as they come on the fly rather than having to write an entire new codex or edition. To fix things. So if you're interested now would be a good time to get into the game as the playing field is going to be a lot more fresh and level in terms of what's good or not and you should be able to build whatveer competitive army you.

I'm actually looking forward to it myself as it might make good competitive play more viable. Also chadmarines.

>>53420551
>fire lascannon at rubrics
>roll 6 for damage
>kill 1 of the ten rubrics
Or
>fire lascannon at leviathan
>roll 6 for damage
>take nearly half of it's wounds

>>53423631
yeah its sounding generally positive to me as well.

also in the QandA they mentioned setting up a more direct rules feedback system. even mentioned a part of the website where we can submit our own rule/balance suggestions and have a community voting system. The devs will keep an eye on what gets written and whats popular.

>>53423548
It's not only about murdering bigger and stronger vehicles like it was nothing.

It hits at 2+, has a 2+ save with a 4++ to boot and regenerates Wounds if it rolls a 5+. And he gets to roll one healing die for each model it killed.

BUTCHER CANNON HAS 8 ATTACKS WITH S8 THAT ALSO LOWERS LD BY 2 (BATTLESHOCK, ANYONE?) AND THERE ARE STILL TWO FLAMERS, ALL HIT ON 2+.

HE ROLLS ONE HEALING DIE FOR EVERY MODEL KILLED.

HOW THE FUCK CAN INFANTRY EVEN STAND A CHANCE? Throw 4 of those fucks into your army, specialize two to kill vehicles with grav (still leaves them two flamers to deal with infantry!!!) and outfit two with Butcher to kill troops. This is not a Dreadnaught, this is an army killer.

It has better stats, saves, inv and weapons than bigger models AND it's cheaper. Less wounds? It is tougher than Leman Russ and has an inv save! AND IT REGENERATES ON IT'S OWN, 1 WOUND FOR 3 TROOPS KILLED.

This is why people hate FW. It's not about the prices, because even "poorfags" have to invest hundreds of dollars to even start playing. It's that between all those cosmetics they offer, their exclusive models are either worthless or broken in the actual game.

>>53423703
Lascannon does 3,5 wounds on average. Let's say you have 4 of Guard's Heavy Weapons Teams with 3 lascannons each in range. When put against a leviathan, they do 4 (units) x 3,5 (dmg) x 3 (shots for each unit) x 0,5 (BS) × 0,66 (S9 v T8) × 0,83 (-4 AP on 2+ sv) × 0,66 (inv) = 7 wounds on average. If any of HWTs moved, it's even less.

Meanwhile, Leviatan fires with his Butcher Cannon (with a lowered BS), murders one unit and gets 3 wounds back. If there is a regular Guardsmen squad in range, he can disregard the HWTs, because shooting light infantry will let him recover at least 5 of those lost wounds. More, if he is in flamer range.

But hey, a HWT with lascannons costs only 105 points! And you need only 8 to OTK a Leviathan! So better spam those lascannons EVERYWHERE.

>>53424154

Do we know that invuls are taken after armor saves now? That doesn't sound right.

>>53424154
Doesn't the leviathan only regen in close combat? so the HWT has at least some time, and likely some extra armour for hiding in cover against the butcher canon.

>>53423903
It's pretty impossible at this stage to guage the relative balance of units when we don't know the full rules or most stats of other units and weapons, not any actual points values.

>>53424277
>fight phase
Now I feel dumb. This makes it less broken but it's still a fucking beast. I'd take 3 of them over two Knights (48 power to 46 power) any day. Those stats are crazy good.

>>53424253
we know you take either your normal save or your invul

just give me a chaos deredeo, with sonic weaponry for my EC

>>53424659
Where is this stated?