/ore/ One Roll Engine General

>converting MaOCT to play Persona

So here's what we're trying to work out for this particular project:

>Arcana
What role should the Arcana play in the Persona conversion? Should it be pure flavor (as in specific Persona types are classified as certain Arcana, but that's about the size of it)? Or should they have actual mechanical weight?

>Combat Damage
In vanilla MaOCT, all of a Monster's abilities are measured in dice, including, for all intents and purposes, its hit points. Damage taken by a monster is subtracted from the dice of the location where it was hit. This means the more damage a monster takes, the weaker it becomes.

Should we keep this mechanic, or replace it with a more traditional ORE wound boxes system? It might make combat feel more Persona-like, but it could be at the cost of damaging the Relationship feedback loop, since Monsters eating Relationships to get their dice back is kind of a central mechanic and driving force.

And for everyone reading this thread who doesn't know about Monsters and Other Childish Things or why it fits so well with Persona:

Monsters and Other Childish Things can be turned into a form of Persona with basically Vanilla rules. Just change "Monster" into "Persona" and you've pretty much got it. But there are some interesting hacks you can do to add more Persona flavor to the game.

In MaOCT, every character has a Monster that can only be seen by them or by other characters with Monsters. A monster can be basically anything-- the rule is that you literally draw the monster and then circle bits on it to say whether that part can be used for attack, defense or has some useful function (like flying or being able to smash through walls). Your Kids also have stats, ones that are very applicable to playing in a school setting (such as the Put Down skill for insulting people). It should seem fairly evident that this patches to Persona nicely.

Also, the rules are such that social combat can be just as effective as actual battle, so someone being humiliated, bullied or teased into submission is a valid strategy or problem to overcome (which works very well for a Persona 5 type game)

It also has a built in relationship system, where you establish contact with people and then can cash in those ties for additional dice, but at the cost of introducing strain to that relationship. Strain is repaired just by spending time with the relation, and improved by gaining new understandings and drawing closer to that person, so again, maps very nicely to Persona.

Beyond that, there's not much else that the game says you HAVE to do. It's quite open ended, to the extent where it works even without the Monsters part; Roleplay Public Radio did a Five Nights at Freddies actual play using the system and it was pretty great.

Other comments from the last thread: >https://pastebin.com/ZVcKHk0j

Does this all work?

>Touch of Apophis(Hyper Brawling) (3)
Hyperskill: (+1), Disintegrate (+2), Generates Energy Token (+2), Touch Only (-2), Obvious (-1), Traumatic (+1), Horrifying (-1), Deadly (+1).

>Scales of the Night Serpent (1)
Attacks Extras and Flaws: (+2) Endless (+3), If/Then (When hit) (-1), If/Then (Must target attacking object/limb) (-1), Limited Damage (-1), Touch Only (-2), Obvious (-1), Horrifying (-1), Traumatic (+1), Generates Energy Token (+2). Capacity: Touch.
When attacked in melee Metachaos automatically deals damage to the attacker's limb or weapon.

[Thanks for this one guys.]

>Heat Death (5)
A U
Attack Extras and Flaws: (+2), Duration (+2), Interference (+3),Attached (Touch of Apophis) (-2), Touch Only (-2), Obvious (-1).
Useful Extras and Flaws: (+2) , Duration (+2) , Touch Only (-2), Obvious (-1) , Generates Energy Token (+2).
Metachaos can drain the life of his victims bodies with his deathly touch, weakening them and turning them into dust at their death, siphoning their energy into him and charging him up.
If Metachaos were to touch a powered object, he can drain it's batteries or fuel.
Metachaos' touch leaves the touched area of living things with a mark not unlike that of a burn.


He also has invulnerability that consumes 1 energy token every time he is hit.

The idea is that his attacks weaken you for the encounter, but he also has nothing for people that get away from melee, and his invulnerability can be overwhelmed.

>>53407691
anyone wanna play Monsters and Other Childish Things?

>>53408228
I'd like to! Are we turning it into Punch Ghosts or Satan Ghosts?

>>53408228
>>53408347
Me too.

>>53408195
>Touch of Apophis
So when Metachaos brawls a dude he can grab them and suck their life force out of them and convert it into an Energy Token, correct?

>Scales of the Night Serpent
Is that the variant of Hit Me? Hit You! that was posted in the last thread? The one where you're supposed to put 5wd into it? Just asking; I love that ability and the anon who cooked it up.

>Heat Death
I'm confused about the attacks extra here that's attached to Touch of Apophis. Doesn't T.o.A. already drain lifeforce? What is this attached property supposed to do?

Regardless, I really dig this design. I like how you can use Wild Talents to create a whole resource economy. And interesting that you just turned "Generate Energy Token" into a +2 Extra. The more "by the book" way would be to have a separate Useful power that automatically goes off when those are used, but it speaks to the flexibility of the system that you can just throw that on and it still works just fine.

>>53408379

>So when Metachaos brawls a dude he can grab them and suck their life force out of them and convert it into an Energy Token, correct?
Correct!

>Is that the variant of Hit Me? Hit You! that was posted in the last thread? The one where you're supposed to put 5wd into it? Just asking; I love that ability and the anon who cooked it up.
Yep, I was the one who asked about it. I love it too.

>I'm confused about the attacks extra here that's attached to Touch of Apophis. Doesn't T.o.A. already drain lifeforce? What is this attached property supposed to do?
Leave an encounter long interference attached to the victim.

>And interesting that you just turned "Generate Energy Token" into a +2 Extra. The more "by the book" way would be to have a separate Useful power that automatically goes off when those are used, but it speaks to the flexibility of the system that you can just throw that on and it still works just fine.
To be honest, I tried that and couldn't figure it out at the time, I realised how flexible it was when I saw Hit me? Hit You! on the last thread.

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>>53408228
OP here; I wish I had the availability to play but if there is a game afoot I'd love to hear the details.

Oh and here's the quick play manual for Monsters, in case anyone's interested.

>>53408501
>Leave an encounter long interference attached to the victim.
Gotcha; makes sense to me! That's a super nasty power bro, I love it.

>To be honest, I tried that and couldn't figure it out at the time, I realised how flexible it was when I saw Hit me? Hit You! on the last thread.
Like I said, what you cooked up is perfectly readible; the Ready to Play Extras and Flaws in WT are meant to serve as much as guidelines for DIY efforts as they are discrete building blocks. It's especially helpful if one expects to have multiple characters with that kind of internal power point economy. i can certainly see it coming in handy.

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So as an experiment I thought I'd try stating out Arsene in Monsters and Other Childish Things.

ARSENE

HIDES BY: Vanishing into its kid's subconscious
FAVORITE THING: Stealing

HIT LOCATIONS
1-2.................Fancy, Blade-Lined Legs 6d
>Attacks, Defends, Awesome x1, Wicked Fast x2

3.....................Dapper Attire 3d
>Useful (pockets for hiding things), Tough x2

4-5...............Nimble Claws 8d
>Attacks, Useful (picking locks and pockets), Wicked Fast

6-8..............Wings of Darkness 8d
>Attacks (Wind, Curse), Useful (windy flight), Defends, Awesome x2, Gnarly x2

9.....................Glowy Eyes 5d
>Useful (see the invisible)

10..................Gentleman's Tophat 5d
>Useful (magic tricks)

I figured that you should be able to add one Elemental effect to an Attacks Quality for free (on the grounds that it's as likely to help you as hurt you), and each additional effect cost 1d, hence the point cost on Arsene's Wings of Darkness.

Now, here's the question: what if we gave these locations Wound Boxes on a per die basis? So Arsene's top hat has 5 boxes, his wings have 8 boxes and his legs have 6. That way damage from a fight doesn't make the persona less effective until a location is full of damage. Thoughts?

>>53409020
So one thought I had would be to add a new Monster Quality: Resist. Resist always affects a specific element, so you'd have Resist (Fire).

If you hit a Monster at a location that Reists your element, your attack only inflicts half its normal damage, rounded down. So 1 damage becomes 0.

Resist x2 has the same effect, except the other half of the damage is reflected back as an Area attack.

Resist x3 has the same effect as x1, except for each point of damage cancelled, you can roll an Area die and heal that much damage to your Persona to those locations.

How do these sound? Too complicated? Are elemental resistance too much of a pain in the neck to worry about in a tabletop game?

>>53409388
This approach also makes it so that it's difficult if not impossible for a Persona or Shadow to be untouchable by a specific element, since you'd need to apply the Resistance to each location separately. That way you don't run into a situation where a character is rendered totally useless because his strongest attack just gets absorbed completely by the target.

>>53407872
I've been spending weeks shilling Monsters and other Childish Things anytime anyone brings up Persona campaigns.

It's nice to see my hard work has paid off.

>>53410950
Same here; we've probably been in a few of the same threads.

What do you think about my comments here: >>53409020
>Now, here's the question: what if we gave these locations Wound Boxes on a per die basis? So Arsene's top hat has 5 boxes, his wings have 8 boxes and his legs have 6. That way damage from a fight doesn't make the persona less effective until a location is full of damage. Thoughts?

>>53410118
...
I'll be honest, I don't think that's a positive.
At least, there should be a way to have full immunity.

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So my players have decided to improve their standing with their city's parahuman crime force by leasing themselves as bounty hunters to take down some of the town's more dangerous characters. Here's the one that I'm siccing them on next session. His power is below, and the police dossier on the guy is attached.

ERUPTION (1 pt per die)
>Attacks Extras and Flaws [Touch Only-3, Delayed Effect-2, Non-Physical+2, if/then-1 (must have direct skin contact), Traumatic+1] Capacities: Touch
EFFECT: By making direct skin-to-skin contact with a living thing, Crackerjack can reconfigure the chemical composition of their body tissue into a powerful subcutaneous explosive. The longer and more complete the contact (represented by greater Width), the more powerful the explosion.

Crackerjack has no direct control over when these explosives will detonate. Each time Crackerjack uses this power on someone, he rolls 1d. On each subsequent Round, the afflicted character must roll 1d at the start of their Declare phase for each bomb that has been planted in them. If their die matches the one Crackerjack rolled for that bomb, it will detonate at the start of that round’s Resolve phase, before any actions take place. Each subdermal explosive is tracked individually in this manner, and each inflicts Shock and Killing based on the Width of the initial roll to activate this power. Armor cannot protect from this damage.

Crackerjack can defuse his own explosives by touching them; moreover if he is rendered unconscious, any unexploded bombs he’s created will automatically revert into benign subcutaneous cysts.

>>53411083
I'm mostly thinking here of wanting to avoid a situation where a player's thematic choices in their Persona's design makes them sort of terrible against a specific enemy. It's annoying in a single player video game when you get to a boss and discover that one of your party members can barely touch them because they resist or are immune to their element; if that party member was actively controlled by a person, I see it as being crippling.

That said I'm open minded and it's not just my project. I'm just trying to coordinate good ideas we have.

>>53411390
I imagine a full panic on the first contact.

>>53411552
That's what I'm hoping. One of my player characters wears basically a full body catsuit so she'll probably be fine, unless she gets swatted across the face.

The way I plan for the fight to unfold is that he's got a posse of low-lifes that are basically there to run interference and restrain people so he can touch them freely. I doubt anyone's going to die (it's basically the equivalent of 100% armor piercing gunshot) but they're gonna get hurt reeeeal bad.

>>53411615
So...
How many dice does this weirdly named sod throw?

>>53411874
Well my player characters are very high level due to being in a campaign for about 3 years, during which time they've gone from 250 pt characters to about 400 pts.

I'm thinking probably 5d+1wd, but I may bump it up to 6d+1wd. I want to be sure that the power goes off at least once during the fight and from my experience those numbers should to the trick. He's got Willpower to throw around anyway for bonus dice if that's too low to be viable.

It also goes to show how meaningless the point -per-die costs in WT can be. This guy has a very unpleasant, nasty power that's dirt cheap. I could easily make it way, way more dangerous for almost no extra cost, but my goal is to make my players_afraid_ of getting a limb blown off, not to actually do it. He's just the 2 of Clubs; they've got a lot more guys to go through before they reach the Aces.

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I have a bit of a challenge for anyone up to it. Can you stat out this vampire seeking missile in wild talents? I was thinking of using the system for a tsukihime inspired setting, but I'm not sure if it or mutants and masterminds fits better.

>>53412136
+100 affection to whoever kills her

>>53412136
How powerful a missile are we talking? Is it like a rocket propelled grenade or is it like an anti-tank weapon?

>>53411995
Add Disintegrate for maximum limb blowing.

>>53412136
>>53412394
So there's really two ways to do this. One would be to build a weapon from the ground up, like this:

VAMPIRE SEEKING MISSILE SYSTEM 6d+2wd (5 pts per die; 70 pts)
pts)
>Attacks+1 Extras and Flaws [Area+5, Penetration+3, (Bulky, Adaptated, Manufacturable) Focus-2, Depleted-1, if/then-1(Wiggle Dice can only be used against Vampire targets), Slow-2] Capacity: Range
EFFECT: This rocket-propelled grenade system is designed with a special guidance system that homes in on targets with vampiric traits, triggering its 2 Wiggle Dice when used against the vile foes. Against all targets it inflicts Width+1 in Shock and Killing, penetrates up to 3 levels of armor, and deals out 5 Killing Area dice. It comes with 7 missiles that must be manually loaded after each fire.

This version is a stand-alone Miracle that you can buy additional dice in for 5 pts a pop. This would work nicely if you want to point to an object in the game world and say "This a vampire seeking missile launcher. It costs 40 pts for the wiggle dice, plus 5 pts per additional die".

However, Wild Talents is a very versatile system, and there's a more abstract-yet-elegant system I think for doing this.

VAMPIRE MISSILE GUIDANCE SYSTEM 2wd (3 pts per die; 24 pts)
>Attacks [Augments+4, if/then-1 (only against Vampiric Targets), Attached-2 (Rocket Propelled Grenade Launcher)] Capacity: Range
EFFECT: This special guidance system can be affixed to a conventional rocket propelled grenade weapon, allowing to home in on targets with vampiric traits. In doing so it grants +2wd to the user's dice pool, provided that the target is, indeed, a vampire.

(1/2)

>>53413154
With this, you don't need to worry about recreating the statistics of an RPG-- instead we've created a special power that's attached to the existing weapon. So if you give this to a character with an RPG launcher, you're saying "this character's RPG gets +2wd when shooting Vampires." When you attack a Vampire with it, you're rolling Coordination + Weapon (RPG) + 2wd, and you deal damage according to what the book says an RPG does (Width+1 in Shock and Killing, Penetration 3, Area 5). If this was attached to a more powerful rocket launcher it would inflict even more damage, but it would still cost the same because it's priced for the "vampire seeking" part, not the rocket launcher part.

Figured I'd ask here, since the game finder wasn't giving me any luck. A friend of mine's running a Monsters & Other Childish Things game online, we're looking for 1-3 more players. Game's at 5pm GMT on a Sunday. Anyone want in?

Link to the game's discord: https://discord.gg/Zp8vAt
It's a single-use link, since Discord won't let me make three-use ones. Post if it's already been used, I'll make another.

>>53413505
This sounds awesome; wish I was in a position to join. Any details about the story?

>>53413578
DM's kept the details hushed up so far, but in broad terms, a bunch of horror movies and stories actually happened in some form, but the bad guys won and rewrote reality to avoid being remembered. The PCs, 10-15 year old students at St Hatebrand's* Catholic School, saw the truth in their dreams somehow, and when they woke up they were bonded with the monsters they dreamt about.


*An actual saint. The GM did not make up that name.

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>>53412394
>>53413154
>>53413180
Well this went in a completely different direction than I thought it would.

The character I posted, Arcueid, is a true ancestor (which is like a fey/vampire creature and where vampires descend from) that is responsible for the near extinction of other true ancestors as well as other powerful vampires. At the time of tsukihime, she sleeps and only wakes up when one particular vampire reincarnates - so she can kill him again. The universe itself has a lot of complicated concepts and she in particular has some pretty strange abilities.

She doesn't actually use a missile system, so much as she is the missile system. Although I feel like having access to actual missiles would make her job a lot easier..

>>53413869
Ah, my mistake. I've never seen the source material you referred to so I thought you were being literal.

Someone who knows more about it would probably be able to put her together easily. Does she have any peculiar abilities that we could stat up?

Last Thread >>53289094

How complex can the resistance/weakness stuff get in the Persona mod?
They could be pretty specific in the actual game.

>>53413670
That's a freaking sweet and super original idea for a Monsters game. If it goes through you have to share the details.

>>53416116
That's all up in the air right now. It really depends on how we decide to implement it.

As it stands, a Persona GM can totally establish a list of common Elements in their setting, and configure the resistances of their Personas and Shadows as they see fit. It could be as simple as "Weaknesses = +1 Damage from attacks, plus Knock Down".

See this post: >>53409020 for how a Persona could theoretically be built in Monsters and Other Childish Things, and the one after for an idea for how Resistances could work.

The other way I thought Resistance could work is a simple 1:1 with Weaknesses. Gain a universal Resistance to one element, and you have to match it with a Weakness to another. It means that you wouldn't end up with enemies with a single weakness and a million resistances, but it could be a fair trade-off for simplicity and playability.

Bump for something I'm working on in a bit...

So let's talk for a second about Stats and Skills in Monsters and Other Childish Things.

In MaOCT, kids have five Stats: Feed, Guts, Hands, Brains and Face. These map pretty easily to the main player stats of Persona:

Feet-----> Diligence
Hands --> Proficiency
Guts ----> (Stays the same)
Brains --> Knowledge
Face ----> Charm

As I see it, each of these can still be associated with the stated body parts, since it's hard to show your manual proficiency if your fingers are busted, and you can't very well out-think someone if you've got a concussion.

In MaOCT, each Stat also has 3 Skills:

FEET (Diligence)- This represents your overall athleticism and ability to move around without looking like a dorkus.
>Dodging (Avoiding attacks)
>Kicking (Putting the boot to stuff, whether people or obstacles
>P.E. (Running, jumping, climbing, etc)

GUTS (Guts)- How tough you are. Also your literal midsection
>Courage (Standing up to bullies and elder gods)
>Wind (How in-shape you are)
>Wrestling (Grabbing onto stuff and not letting go)

HANDS (Proficiency)- Manual dexterity and coordination
>Blocking (stopping things from hitting other things)
>Punching (fighting with purpose)
>Shop (working with your hands)

BRAINS (Knowledge)- How smart and alert you are
>Notice (spotting things before they kill you)
>Out-Think (figuring problems out)
>Remember (book learning)

FACE (Charm)- How cool, clever and popular you are
>Charm (making people like you)
>Connive (lying and tricking people)
>Putdown (sick burns)

These are the skill as written in the vanilla project; question is, should they be changed in any way to make them fit Persona better?

>>53418275
Doing this conversion, I feel like Dodging and Blocking should be swapped for thematic reasons, and that Kicking and Punching should be reflavoured as well, maybe. Emphasize the difference between using them to tackle physical obstacles with aggression and fury vs care and precision, instead just being a matter of which body part you are using. Maybe change Kicking in Brawling? Not sure.

>>53418641
> I feel like Dodging and Blocking should be swapped for thematic reasons
I see where you're coming from, my one thought would be that I feel like it requires a lot more coordination to block a punch coming at you than to try and step out of the way. Then again both require timing and accuracy to pull off, so I'm not so sure. The general idea behind Feet/Diligence is that it represents your overall fitness and physical condition, which may require reworking/redefining Wind, for instance.

>Kicking and Punching should be reflavoured as well, maybe. Emphasize the difference between using them to tackle physical obstacles with aggression and fury vs care and precision
This was my line of thinking too. What if we change Kicking into "Beat Down", since it's the brute force option; whereas Punching could be "Fighting" for more direct strikes?

So you use Fighting to knock a bully onto his back, and then Beat Down to kick him until he stops moving. You can also use Beat Down to kick open a stubborn locker or break a door in.

>>53418780
What about doing stuff like bashing compared to piercing like the attack types in persona? or smt in general, they split the physical types of attacks

So like instead of 'Kicking', its Bashing, where you break stuff with how strong you are, as opposed to Striking instead of 'Punching', where you try to accurately strike vital points

>>53418780
I agree that both Dodging and Blocking require similar amounts of accuracy and timing, and that both could go under Proficiency. In this case, I feel like Dodging fits more under Proficiency because I figured it would require more movement and coordination to move your entire body as opposed to just your arms. As well, Proficiency is the stat that is canonically increased whenever Protag dodges. I see Blocking under Diligence as being representative of persistence in the face of whatever you might be defending yourself from.

I think Wind is fine as is? I see the difference between Guts - Wind and Dilligence - P.E as being the difference between Sustained Exertion vs. Sudden Bursts of Exertion.

I like the contrast between Beat Down and Fighting, though I think it's important to allow the use of Beat Down in direct combat. I like that four of the Stats in MaoCT can be used for combat and dealing damage, and feel that should be preserved.

>>53418954
I can agree with switching Dodge and Block. Maybe change Dodge to "Reflex" so it fits in with Proficiency a bit more naturally?

For Beat Down, the way I saw it, the distinction is that it's kind of for attacking things that can't or won't fight back. It's similar to A Dirty World where you roll Vigor + Courage in a fair fight and Vigor + Wrath to beat on the inferior.

A bully can use Beat Down against a nerd who's too timid to fight back; it's to his advantage because it allows him to manhandle the kid and show off how much stronger and tougher he is. The nerd, though, remembers his idol Bruce Lee and taps into his Relationship with Kung Fu Cinema and rolls Fighting to hit him back. The attack wreck the bully and he goes down, and then the Kid unleashes with Beat Down.

I_think_ it works because Fighting is ONLY for fighting people, whereas Beat Down can work on inanimate objects, but it *doesn't* work on things that can fight back. That's how I see it at least.

I also figure that we can change "Remember" into "Academics" since that's more in line with its intended purpose (and it lines up with another Persona skill from P3)

>>53419036
>I_think_ it works because Fighting is ONLY for fighting people, whereas Beat Down can work on inanimate objects, but it *doesn't* work on things that can fight back. That's how I see it at least.

I could see that. I've read through the Core Rules for MaoCT and most of the supplements a few times, but I've not had the opportunity to actually play the game myself (my attempts to run Games always end before we can even get to character creation).

>>53419077
Well the balance we need to strike is between the Stats "feeling" right from a thematic standpoint and actually playing correctly. Remember in MaOCT, hit locations are a thing. So if a Kid gets hurt the dice come up 1, that's damage to his Feet, so he twisted his ankle or something.

On the one hand it works nicely for us, since by making the stats more abstract they allow for different kinds of damage (drain a character's Diligence and he's too exhausted to go on), but we also should be sure to remember that not ALL conflicts are psychological. Sometimes that dick Rico decides to give you an old-fashioned Hurtz Donut and almost breaks your pinky for Hands damage.

Here's what the book says about it that we should keep in mind:

>When you take a hit in a conflict and lose dice from a stat, you and the GM need to decide how it happened and how to play it out. Getting hit in the “Hands” means your manual dexterity has been hurt in some way. That could mean a bruising punch in the arm, or it could mean that the other guy embarrassed or frightened you so badly that you’re shaky and weak, or selfconscious and clumsy.

>A “hit” to your Brains leaves you rattled and confused. And so on. This flexibility is supposed to encourage you to diversify your character a bit. Each stat has a skill under it which is useful in a scrap. If your Feet get knocked out from under you, then it’s Handy to be good at Punching.

mechanics wise, how is Godlike different from Wild Talents?

>>53419330
They're practically identical. The few differences I can think of off the top of my head:

1. Superhumans have a special pool of Will Points that are used to buy powers instead of having them just be part of the character point total.

2. Powers are less reliable; every fight between Talents is a battle of willpower unless one or both have the Robust quality attached to their ability

3. Extras and flaws are different and the specifics of how to create a power aren't quite the same. The system is more inclined towards creating characters that have One Weird Trick they can do instead of a wide array of powers (but both still work).

4. The skill list is different, since Godlike is specifically about playing during WWII, but that's not really a big deal.

The actual pencil, paper and dice parts of the games aren't very different at all, it's mostly the behind the scenes stuff.

>>53419216
Also, I'm off for tonight, hopefully we can continue this discussion tomorrow. Some good stuff here.

>>53419077
One last thing: do you think Wrestling still fits along side Beat Down and Fighting?

>>53412634
Oh boy how could I forget that! Hopefully the synthetic limb clinic will be open after the fight is over.

>>53419639
I'm not sure it does anymore. I'm not sure what you might replace it with either. If we wanted to add another skill related to combat, I would consider adding a Marksmanship skill (depending on how much you want to hew to P5 over P3 & P4), but that wouldn't really fit under Guts.

Maybe we could associate a Marksmanship skill with Diligence, representing your ability to focus and steady yourself both physically and mentally when handling a firearm or similar weapon, remove Blocking from Diligence, rename it Resistance or Resilience, and then put it under Guts, representing your ability not necessarily just to defend yourself from incoming attacks, but to withstand things like inclement weather or other similar environmental hazards? Useful for things too indiscriminate to be Evaded.

If we decided to include a Marksmanship skill.

>>53420044
>Resilience
I like it.

>>53408228
I currently am full up on players but two spots might open up. Here's the text dump on the setting.

>You've been having dreams, weird fucking dreams. They look exactly like those old horror stories from the 70s and 80s. Moving comics about superhero Dracula, black and white luchador serials where they wrestle monsters, and slasher flicks about nightmare creatures killing stupid teenagers. The stories you've been dreaming always end with one thing, the heroes lose to the villains and the bad guys warped reality so nobody ever remembered them.

>Now this would be weird enough by itself but the weirdest part? They're real. They've been talking to you, helping you out at school, and even if nobody else see's them you do. So what is it? Did the villains really win or are you just crazy?

>You are a 10-15 year old kid at St Hatebrand's Catholic School. The school has nuns, a church, everything that can squash your hopes, dreams, and creativity. The worst part is they are incredibly strict. The music, movies, and books that the Decency Laws make illegal is pretty easy to find at a public school but here it's nearly impossible and if you get caught? Well let's say there are worse things than detention!

If you're still interested even though my game isn't Jojo or Persona contact me on Discord.

Username: NoEyesZalgo#1547

>>53422663
>mfw I already shilled for this same game ITT
well this is awkward

Morning bump

>>53422663
As I said to the other guy, I wish I could be in on this because this idea rules so hard. MaOCT doesn't need to be Jojo or Persona to be awesome; it's great on its own.

>>53420044
I love the idea of a marksmanship skill but I think it should go under Proficiency, since it's a fine, precise skill vs Diligence which is more about overall physical conditioning.

So how about if we replace Wresting with Fighting and replace Punching with Aiming? That way you can use it to shoot a gun, pass a basketball or throw eggs at the principal's car.

So how about this:

FEET (Diligence)- This represents your overall athleticism and ability to move around without looking like a dorkus.
>Block (stop things from hitting other things)
>Beat Down (Hit stuff that can't hit back, like trash cans and prone victims)
>P.E. (Running, jumping, climbing, etc)

GUTS (Guts)- How tough you are. Also your literal midsection
>Courage (Standing up to bullies and elder gods)
>Wind (How in-shape you are)
>Fighting (Facing off against foes who can fight back)

HANDS (Proficiency)- Manual dexterity and coordination
>Reflexes (getting out of harms way)
>Aiming (shoot your dad's hunting rifle, pass a basketball, throw rotten eggs)
>Shop (working with your hands)

BRAINS (Knowledge)- How smart and alert you are
>Notice (spotting things before they kill you)
>Out-Think (figuring problems out)
>Academics (book learning)

FACE (Expression)- How cool, clever and popular you are
>Charm (making people like you)
>Connive (lying and tricking people)
>Putdown (sick burns)

I've still got Block as a Diligence skill; I've replaced Wrestling with Fighting and Punching with Aim. I feel pretty good about these changes but the discussion is far form over.

Regarding moving Block to Guts, it makes sense, but my qualms are:

1. What would we switch it with? We could do Wind but the reason Wind is in Guts is for "getting the wind knocked out of you". That said it does fit well with Diligence too.

2. I like the idea that Diligence lets you stand your ground physically (Block) while Guts lets you do it emotionally (Courage).

Wild Talents (among others) conversion guide for Base Raiders (written by the creator) from another thread: >>53407472

So since we have character skills more or less in place, the question we need to approach is "What are the key elements of Persona that need to be added to Monsters and Other Childish Things"? Like, is it *necessary* to have a Persona spell/skill list? Or is "can attack with Ice" enough?

>>53407872
(disclaiming that I've only every plaid Shin M. T. and might not actually know what you're talking about)

M&OCT already has recommended monster "classes"
Elemental: Add "attack" to every part
Vegetable: Add "tough" to every part
Inside Out: [something else really vague]

I recommend making *better* and *just suggestion* types though.

>>53425512
cont.
Gonna note this for other M&OCT fans, I find that in-play monsters tend to come in limited types anyway. There're beast types, physical damage hybrid and large animals (giant wolf, half man half shark pro-wrestler, giant bug); incarnations, monsters that embody an element and associated concept (a snowman who freezes at the touch and induces apathy representing both meanings of the word "cold", a black ghost arm with invisibility who can literally see secrets themed around shadiness and subterfuge, a living fireplace with the power to rouse suppressed passion... including guilt that represents both "holiday spirit" and "infernal punishment"); and cranky and/or crazy wizard/witch types who are so warped with exaggerated age that the can be considered ghouls or monsters more than humans.

Then they follow particular subtypes:

Beast: Normal But Bigger, Animal/Human Hybrid, Gross; combined with a grounded and subtle theme with a contradiction, such as "conventionally disgusting but well meaning", "in tune with a bestial nature but driven to uphold a strict code of honor" or "overly protective of all children but compulsively driven to frenzies of extreme rage"
^physically powerful and challenging but fun to RP as

Incarnation: literally any aspect of the human emotional range, a single element and a single NOT SUBTLE related theme (note: "elements" don't need to be natural, a golem of spark-plugs and gears who upholds order and systemic perfection OR takes joy in and tries to support all types of innovation)
^usefuls centered around their themes making them situational aces for the player

Humanoid: Crazy Old Wizard a little out of touch with reality, Mysterious Old Witch who may have hidden purposes, Peaceful Giant of few words who's in tuned with nature, Cunning Plotter who's basically Jafar
^LOADED with usefuls that are as good as getting the players into trouble as they are for getting them out, and also making settings richer with shenanigans

>>53425567
Persona has the same thing, except the classes are connected with Tarot Arcana, so that Persona of the Emperor Arcana tend to be powerful, domineering figures, whereas Persona of the Lovers Arcana are usually gentler, healing types. Magicians are usually tricksters, Empresses are regal and matriarchial, Moons are mysterious, etc...

Discussions about Arcana are tricky because in the previous thread we kind of came to an understanding that we don't want them to impose harsh limits, but rather serve as guidelines for how a Shadow or Persona should behave and what abilities it *should* have instead of what it *can't* have.

>>53407872
I do think that the Arcana should have sone kind of mechanical effect, although I'n not exactly sure what.

Maybe each card grants bonuses to certain kinds of actions, depending on what Arcana that character has?
I'm thinking maybe each card has a single mental action bonus that applies to the human a physical one that applies to the persona; Strength could give a bonus to willing through something fir the human while giving the persona bonuses to something like close combat.

>>53425757
Hmm not a bad idea. A Feedback loop.

One idea that was proposed previously is that you assign an Arcana to your Relationships, and the rank of that Relationship gives you Monster Dice that you can use to create Side-Personas that compliment your main persona. These aren't as versatile as your main persona-- they can only do a couple things and can't take as much damage-- but they let you do things in and out of combat that your Persona may not be able to.

So as an example, if you have a Relationship with a Magician (someone linked with learning and skill, like a teacher or a fellow student), you get 5 monster dice per rank in that relationship. So you can use those dice to make a Jack Frost with 4d in Attacks(Ice) and Useful(frozen hijinks).

If you improve your Magician to rank 2, you get another 5d that you can use to improve your Jack Frost, or you can turn them into another Magician Persona with some other ability.

This feeds-back into your kid by having more voices trying to influence them; having powerful Magician Personas floating around your psyche encourages you to try and outwit and trick people, maybe offering you bonus dice to do so.

>>53425709
Unrelatedly, I'm SO GLAD the series did away with those, like, 35 weirdly intuitive and inconsistent demon types

Hmmm. If you trust your players and they at least loosely understand all the Arcana archetypes allowing them to opt into classification and encouraging them to live up to them in their own way in stating and RPing characters will be all you need. If that works then the "classes" will have mechanical weight.

If they haven't played the game or you think power-gaming will be an issue, limiting certain types of qualities (or those types of useful of certain strengths) to certain Arcana might be useful, such as limiting all heal-other abilities or healing abilities with more than so many dice exclusively to Lovers, though this doesn't apply just to Usefuls. Putting minimums or maximums on the number of dice one can invest in attacking/defending parts or speedy/tough/sweet bonuses might add depth. Alternatively, altering the prices of Usefuls and Qualities based on Arcana (such as the Awesome quality costing 3 XP for Emperors as opposed to the usual 5xp) might be viable if a little more complicated and harder to balance.

It should be noted though, as always, that Awesome is broken as hell and needs to cost more dice than the PDF suggests. I suggest cutting Awesome into parts. A homebrew "Exacting" quality that simply guarantees a free "called shot" combined with Gnarly (adds 1 to all succeeding Attack sets) and Sweet (adds 1 to all succeeding Useful sets) basically adds up to the vanilla's Awesome quality.

>>53425919
I just assumed each PC would only be able to have one Persona. With multiple PCs in a session allowing side personas could lead to versatility/skillsetoverlap overload if it's not done carefully. (also a lack of defined character concepts)

I'm sure either could be done OK though.

>>53425919
>>53426050
The way I see tgings, only one PC per gane should be able to have wildcard-esque abilities, similar to the games. That, or it's a trait that you can add onto your character to give them those capabilities while severely powering down their initial persona.

>>53426050
>>53426155
I'm glad we're having this discussion because it's something we need to work out: what place, if any, should Wild Cards have in the game?

We shouldn't want to end up in a situation where one person is special because they can have multiple Personae. Moreover, the strength of MaOCT, and Persona to a certain extent, is the feel and aesthetics of "this is my Monster. It's unique to me, and it's a part of me." One of the complaints about Persona 5 in particular is that Arsene is an awesome, evocative design and it sucks that he becomes obsolete before the end of the first Palace. Meanwhile the other party members have unique, interestingly designed Personae that are never obsolete.

I suppose, then, there are three options:

1. Everyone is a Wild Card that acquires a collection of Personae based on their Relationships. This is perhaps the "Pure Persona" route.

2. Nobody is a Wild Card: your Persona is yours, and it is your only one. It may evolve (which brings into mind Persona 1 and 2), but you keep it from beginning to end. This is perhaps the "Pure MaOCT" route.

3. Main-Sub Personas. Everyone has a Main Persona, but they can summon Sub-Persona with limited, specific abilities for certain tasks. These Sub Personas are linked to your Relationships. This is a mix between #1 and #2.

4. You can be a Wild Card, but at a cost. Maybe you don't have a Main Persona, or maybe it's not as good as everyone else, so you make up for it by having a bunch of other, lesser Personas at your disposal. This is the "Pure Persona" route. Personally I don't like this one, but your mileage may vary.

We could, of course, include rules for all 4 options so the GM and players can choose.

>>53426292
Doh, meant to say four options

>>53426292
Personally, 2 and 4 are my favorites since it still lets the party members have a specific niche they can fill without other party members butting in on it too easily.
But as you said, we can just do them all and let GMs decide.

>>53426292
3 is the way Persona Q does it.

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Hey! Does anyone have that guide for converting WoD to ORE? I want to run an Orpheus game but I hate the White Wolf system.

>>53426798
Oh man there's actually an ORE conversion specifically for Orpheus *somewhere* but I can't for the life of me find it. I think it was posted on /tg in the distant past but Google is failing me.

>>53427417
>>53426798
Found it!

>http://www.mediafire.com/file/4ws4dt616v215az/OREpheus.pdf

Also for good measure, One Roll Exalted:
>http://www.tricktonic.com/ORExalted/

>>53426292
I'm watching letplays now so I can give an actually informed opinion. I've run Monsters &OCT though.

If personas are going to be as customizable as Monsters (able to pick things up, operate independently of the PC, or to have any Useful) you NEED to limit each PC to one persona AND stress that a persona is a unified thing of its own and should read like a unified character concept, and not a deck for your player to hold their abilities. Lemme tell you, Monsters are supposed to be statted to fit a character concept and can get broken as HECK if they're powergamed and the DM doesn't know how to negotiate limits before char creation.

If, however, persona are just going to have the same types of moves they have in the games, even if their moves can be stretched (a little) to fulfill utility purposes, then collecting sub-persona should be fine.

On a side note, I encourage you to fix party balancing by limiting powergamers' non-niche abilities EARLY (like, before or immediately after first session--limit the scope of what to-often-useful abilities can be used for) and to bring any far less optimal builds up to speed with the party by helping the player, giving them tactical advice, and helping them expand their Usefuls into things they like, fit their original concept, and will actually be useful. Don't just pile weaker players with bonus XP hoping the issue will resolve itself.

>>53427650
This falls in line with my experience with the game as well. Since the game we're aiming at is, mechanically, 90% MaOCT and 10% Persona, the best result relies on the vanilla rules, recontextualized into Persona, instead of trying to impose Persona rules onto the core game.

So what we should do, then, is present Option 2 as the Default and Preferred Choice, but give rules for the other three if the GM and players really want them.

Also as far as skills are concerned, I'm thinking that there's no real point to hard-coding the Persona spell/skill list into the game; the players will normally get more enjoyment out of describing how their Persona rips the enemy apart instead of saying "I use Lunge!" or "I use Cleave!", etc...

Since you've got experience with MaOCT, what do you think about the question of Wound Boxes at the end of this post: >>53409020. How would this affect the game do you think?

>>53425112
I think stuff like "wields thunder" or "curses things" is enough. The spell lists are mostly in the game just because it's an RPG, and the closest thing to those spells we should get are the buff/debuff spells.

>>53428003
Yeah, and most are "Lightning", "Lightning+1" and "Lightning MAX"

>>53428439
Yeah, and that mechanic already exists by giving a location Gnarly to inflict more damage.

Question: Should we change the names of the Quality Extras to make them more Persona-esque? Wicked Fast, Gnarly, Awesome, etc...

>>53428515
While I don't think it's *necessary*, I certainly don't mind it. I like the refluffing aspect of things.

>>53409020
>That way damage from a fight doesn't make the persona less effective until a location is full of damage. Thoughts?

>>53427914
In M&OCT the ongoing damage making a part less effective is supposed to simulate gruesome monsters taking pieces out of each other, and tension and desperation rising as wings getting tattered and bloody. It also makes it easier to "get" the current state of the fight and makes HP less abstract. I really like this personally, but I can understand why you might want a "they're A-OK until they're not" for battles that have more foes than PCs, battles that are fought in consecutive rounds where the later rounds are supposed to be close calls with a (non-defensive) berserker high. Consider how well these tonal changes complement or drag down the feeling of the series on your own, I'm only a few hours into the Letsplay. There are some mechanical complications though, and I'm going to explore them out-loud.

>>53428981
cont.

Specializing each part is really OP in vanilla. With the way qualities work making one part "pure attack part" and one "pure defensive" part is plainly more optimal than having versatile parts but the downside is that if one part is badly damaged or temporarily incapacitated (I can see ice, curse, or chain themed Usefuls doing this) you're out of whatever that part did, thus insensitivizing having at least two parts with any quality you NEED. Similarly, making few body parts with loads of dice is plainly better, a 10d+ part with loads of qualities is a MONSTER and, though very susceptible to incapacitating Usefuls, hard as hell to beat down. While generally better, people often find these builds boring to use.

Taking away the ability to reduce a parts strength with damage, even if a part can still be KO'ed, makes specialized and loaded up builds way stronger, as well as part-incapacitating Usefuls stronger.

Spec and loaded builds are already above curve so you'd need either a) every enemy and PC knowing this and knowing to spec themselves more-than-less like this, b) guidelines limiting how much one can do this (like "each persona must have A or B many parts, each additional instance of the same quality on the same part costs X more" or something like "each part starts out with 2d just for existing though it must have at least one dice spent on it, each hitbox this part contains gets it 4, not 5, extra dice to spend on it") and/or c) some sort of system that makes specialized parts less effecitve (such as a Pokemon-like elemental system, optionally making each additional attack type on a single part cost progressively more).

Any of these should be good enough. Incapacitating Usefuls barely ever get used in combat in vanilla and can be dooped simply by having two equally strong Attack parts so the advantage this change brings them over standard Attacks should be really good for them.

>>53428515
I don't know if it's even a good idea to translate qualities 1 for 1. Persona has a different fanbase than M&OCT and balance is more important, so if we have them at all they should probably be redone.

If we do have them, renamed would certainly be better unless most of the players are already familiar with Monster and it would confuse them. The names in monsters were meant to make parts sound like vivid descriptions from monster novels (etc. clenched in their awesome jaws, cleaved by their gnarly claws, whipped by their wicked fast tail). If we're not running with the holliwood monster theme, which I presume we aren't they should at the least be simplified and made easier to read. (ex. Wicked = "Speed", Gnarly = "Attack", Tough = "Defense", Sweet = "Handy", Awesome = should cost more, be modified or be taken out)

Once what qualities are going to be in-game are decided upon, we can name them however we want... but maybe we should avoid any non-cannon elemental-sounding terms that aren't actually elemental attacks. Having "Lightning" describe a part might be weird is the same word is also the gist of an attack type. If the persona fanbase is already used to "Lightning" = "just fast, not a damage type" than that's OK though.

>>53429153
As far as Elements are concerned, we should more or less leave that up to the GM of a given game. Elements aren't even consistent between Persona games; 1-2 have stuff like Nuclear and Water, 3-4 removed those entirely, 5 added Nuclear back and gave us Psi and then gave pure attacking skills for Curse and Bless.

One of the sections should be for the GM to figure out the Elements of their game. The primary thing for Elements is the Weakness/Resistance system, unless we want to implement P5's Technical Attack system that rewards you for taking certain actions against enemies under certain conditions.

on a scale of 1 to 10 how complex is a game of MaOCT?

>>53429229
I think we should just use 5's elemental system, and give GMs a little note talking about how they can add and remove elements as they please.

>>53429243
Where 1 is Lasers and Feelings and 10 is GURPS Vehicles, probably a 4.

>>53429318
Makes sense, although I think there are 6 traditional elements in SMT: Fire, Ice, Electric, Wind, Dark, Light, plus Almighty which is kind of outside the norm. Or am I forgetting one?

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Also I wrote a quick thing up as an introduction to the idea of MaOCT + Persona

I'd like to hear arguments for- and against how Elemental Weaknesses should be handled.

>Idea 1: Resist Extra
The way I see it, a Monster's Tough extras should only affect "physical" (read: non-Elemental) damage. If you want to have defense against Elements you need to pick the "Resist" Extra, but Resist only gives you armor against 1 Element; each added Element costs 1d.

(Not sure how Weaknesses fit into this yet)

>Idea 2: Trade-Offs
Weaknesses double damage taken from attacks; Resistances cut them in half. A Persona or Shadow's weaknesses and resistances must balance out (that is, if you have 2 Resistances you must have 2 Weaknesses).

>>53429669
2 seems the most reasonable to me, although shadows at least should be able to have unbalanced resistances and weaknesses since they could in the games.

>>53429229
Whether or not there's elemental resistance, and how common it is, is pretty crucial to balancing character creation. We can't leave it on the fence.

>>53429243
I'd say 3/10

>>53429229
Simplifying it, if we can do that without loosing flavor, would be best, but other than that we should stick to the most generic cannon available. It should be easy as heck to memorize a ttg's elemental edges, and if GMs can make their own enemies we should be going for resistances and weaknesses that follow a consistent pattern and can be guessed from an encounter's themes and the enemy's descriptions. For instance, that like is resistant to like and weak against its opposite so something firy will always be res to fire and weak to ice?

>>53429669

Realistically, I read you, but I'm n

Adding or subtracting 1 or 2 dice makes a huge difference in ORE, I don't think we should bother with doubling or having anything.

===

I'm just throwing this out there, what if every spell you learn adds 1 res to that element and 1 vulnerability to the opposite? A hack-and-slash plated knight will be resistant to Melee but weak to Guns, an Icy Weeping Angle typed thing will be resistant to Ice and Holy but weak to Fire and Curse.

>>53430293
>so something firy will always be res to fire and weak to ice?
We should most definitely not do this. An angelic persona in the games is just as likely to be weak to curse as it is to resist or deflect it, or even be neutral to it. Not only that, it's unnecessarily restricting.

>>53430293
>I'm just throwing this out there, what if every spell you learn adds 1 res to that element and 1 vulnerability to the opposite? A hack-and-slash plated knight will be resistant to Melee but weak to Guns, an Icy Weeping Angle typed thing will be resistant to Ice and Holy but weak to Fire and Curse.
I'm not really feeling it. Not only do the resistances/weaknesses of persona not really change as they level up it's a little weird to force certain kinds of persona to have certain weaknesses just because of their playstyle.

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Here's the beginning of the section on Characters. Pretty straight-foward so far.

>>53430293
>For instance, that like is resistant to like and weak against its opposite so something firy will always be res to fire and weak to ice?
In MaOCT you can roll Brains + Out-Think (I believe, might be Brains + Notice) to suss out weaknesses in Monsters, so this definitely fits the mechanics. I'd also say it's definitely a good idea to encourage a GM to provide "tells" in the description of an enemy as to what it might be weak to. Remember, each attack in Persona takes seconds to resolve, whereas in ORE, which has a very fast resolution system compared with other tabletop games, it's going take a good bit longer; and if it turns out that you just happened to pick the wrong element because you had no information on what might work, then it's just going to be frustrating.

>>53430575
Good stuff.
It's going to be awkward to balance the traits under this setting and redefined names, but this is definitely a great start.

So the Sharing quality. There's does seem to be a difference between one's capabilities when they're within castles. Do we both convoluting the system from persona-granted stat boosts or just cut it out as clutter that isn't even that related to our setting?

>>53430964
I think that can be left up to the GM. There's a lot of variation between Persona games as to how they work. In P3-5 a Persona is only extant within the other world, whether it's the Dark Hour, the Midnight Channel or the Metaverse, but in P1-2, Personas and Demons existed in the real world. The GM may allow Sharing if the nature of their world justifies it, or not.

>>53430926
I think I'm going to write up the Persona section using the default names for Extras (Gnarly, Wicked Fast, etc) but with a sidebar of what they can be changed to if that's preferred.

Just want to remind any lurkers to feel free to post about Wild Talents and other ORE games too; last thread had some awesome talk about Wild Talents campaigns and one-shots and I'd love to hear more about that.

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Anybody here run MaOCT using the Candlewick setting? Got any stories? I've been trying to psych myself up for running it

>>53433129
I've only heard about Candlewick but never read it; what's the premise? Just MaOCT in a creepy house?

>>53430575
Having one main persona is definitely the way to go, but I really like the idea of collecting other parts of humanity and incorporating it into one's character development and I feel that's a big part of the series' concept. Maybe if shadows could be recruited... as equitable items (shadow-based weapons and accessories)? Or if spending XP on spells or qualities had to be done by taking those qualities from a "recruited" shadow??? It seems like the later would produce ununified and random personas though, not the strong character concept that's fun to create and RP?

Sigh. Maybe "XP" could be fluffed in a way that it seemed like incorporating the destroyed shadow into yourself, and "recruiting" shadows is difficult but gives more XP than just killing them.

... I also hope very much we can keep the Hold Up/All-Out mechanic but at that point the system might be getting a little bloated.

If the model really is going to be that open ended, and we can figure out a good way to do it, it could be listed on the optional rules section of the adaptation.

>>53433129
read a lot of it for inspo but i prefer vanilla mixed with a homemade setting a plot, though closely related with the source material. plus... I have players who'd find a premade module in an instant.

>>53431787
How about these terms:

Gnarly ---------> Powerful
Tough ----------> Tough (fine as is)
Wicked Fast---> Swift
Awesome -----> Awesome (I think this works too)

>>53433220
My idea for One-More (that I wrote up in a prior thread)

When you hit an enemy with its Weakness, you Stagger it. Whenever this happens, you can use a second Set that you rolled as another attack against a different target (this means you aren't ALWAYS guaranteed a second attack, but it also adds more tension to the fight as you hope for multiple Sets).

Moreover, Staggered enemies are more prone to be negotiated with; they can can also be targets for Diligence + Beat Down.

That's one way of doing it at least.

>>53433191
>is it just the same game but in a manor with lots of candles
It's a creepschool setting without the school part. Weird kids get sent to the manor, weird as in they dream in colors that don't exist and whisper horrific futures in their sleep or have 100 frog eyes. Why is a mystery. There's a lot of emphasis on past trauma, alienation, and hidden motives. Every character sheet has an "echo" which is kindov like a "good thing you did" except it's a creepy impression or rumor around the subject that hooks the PCs into the mystery of why that character and everything else if fucked up. I only read it for inspo (yeah I'm double posting, what of it!?) but I don't think it has a complex or put together plot, it's more just a lot of inspiration and building pieces.

Also, I think it has guidelines for giving Kids powers. In CWM the Kids ARE the Monsters. Maybe it doesn't give you a great breakdown but it's so simple and open ended all you really need is a grasp on the mechanic to run it, and CWM def gives you that.

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>>53433242
Candlewick is a setting, not a module. It doesn't have a plot of any kind, just places and people (and monsters) and some cool relationship mechanics

>>53433220
>cont.

wth am I saying? you still need them for regular items and money, if those are game mechanics. I LIKE being able to incorporate multiple personas somehow, but it really would be best to keep the module focused on it's core elements and not incorporate extra mechanic unnecessarily.

>>53433307
I like your ideas. That's probably one of the best ways to incorporate multiple set abilities that we're going to get, and it deals with acknowledging without overpowering hitting weaknesses really well.
In M&OCT any combatant who's been previously in battle looses 1 from their next roll's dice pool. Weaknesses could also do that.

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Something people are forgetting when discussing wound boxes vs dice pool damage is that it doesn't just break the relationship cycle, it also breaks some of the balance of the game. Enemy monsters are usually built with a lot more dice than the PC's, because multiple enemies is usually a mistake (because combat becomes so godawful slow. Now, if the enemy dicepools don't go down, then they can easily win a fight of attrition, because the difference is not so much quantitative as it is qualitative, now.

>>53433652
hmm. this is very true.

>>53433652
GLad you posted that. Really sheds some light on a major issue here.

>>53433543
>I LIKE being able to incorporate multiple personas somehow, but it really would be best to keep the module focused on it's core elements and not incorporate extra mechanic unnecessarily.
Agreed; we can include those as an appendix for optional rules, but keep the main work focused on how to make MaOC more Persona without breaking its balance. That being the case, I agree with >>53433652 that we should keep the damage rules as they are.

>>53425757
What kind of bonuses should each arcana give?

>>53435074
Whatever they are we need to be sure that they are supplementary to the core MaOCT flow of gameplay, not something that bypasses or overwrites it.

Rather than just using Expression for every demon negotiation roll, I was thinking one's Expression roll might determine how many times they can offend the shadow before they tell one to piss off, with the success of each individual DM-played question depending on the player's ingenuity and occasionally any stat's roll.

Expression would need to be good for things other than just negotiations though.

I've been wondering, since the human is basically just the persona's face it seems kinda weird to give most social rolls to a single stat. Granted that, with the exception of proficiency, every stat seems to be useful for some kind of socialization (as well as the basis that the game uses every stat for socialization rolls) perhaps Expression could be renamed Kindness? Kindness would maintain Charm from M&OCT and gain an additional use for empathy, an alternative perception check to the in my experience EXTREMELY OVERUSED Notice roll. I also think this would fit Persona's themes and original terminology better.

>>53436438
I don't think all negotiation or socialization should come down to a single roll and nothing else, but, just drawing comparisons

Diligence = Vague/Bold
Guts = Bold/Kind
Proficiency = Serious/Vague
Knowledge = Funny/Serious
Expression = Kind/Funny

Just sayin, pulling an Apocalypse World and having each action be a combination of two stats (Expression+Knowledge for empathy notice, Diligence+Guts for running long distance, etc.) is an option.

Also, does a kid+monster duo really make sense for Persona? It seems more like using the persona as a "power armor" that gives straight boosts stats fits the game mechanics much better. This could still totally be done with the same system as M&OCT. It'd be pretty great, actually. Using the monster to define a PC's hidden self and the kid to define their outward appearance is pretty standard in many M&OCT games, and I think Arc Dream even suggests that the system could be used for "power armor" with a few adjustments. ... Actually, >>53409020 's person even basically follows a human shape: Legs dealing with an attack, defend and speed; general torso dealing with a useful and an; hands used for grapples; a perception skills in the brains slot; and a mystifying tophat in the face slot. The only thing that doesn't fit is the cape.

>>53436806
I think judging for or against this would require us to settle on a policy when it comes to the adaptation of the game mechanics.

Turning the monsters/personas into power armor is something that would have an effect on action economy, both mechanically in combat as well as narratively both in and out. I personally think we're better off expanding the scope of the game. MaOCT isn't a turn-based RPG. The way it resolves actions is completely different from the videogames, and the space of action is much larger. You could be physically dragging someone away while your Persona fights it out with their Shadow, something that would be impossible if you had to be fully present in the fight.

Something to take into account here is the mechanical power of emotional appeals, of actually calling out to someone/putting them down. In the games this is usually part of cutscenes that happen either before, during pauses in the middle of combat, or after it's all over, while in MaOCT, giving the characters a turn to mechanically try to talk down a person in a bad spot, or put down a shadow while it's asserting it's the true self feels like it would lead to a better game.

Convenient ways to shore up Power Mimicry cost-wise? I've got a player who wants to use temporary ability/skill copying on touch in a relatively low-power game where metahumans are somewhat common, and I think it's a really fun idea - but Variable Effect is so hungry both EXP-wise and Willpower wise that you get almost no mileage out of it in comparison to just giving your character hyperstats or laser beams, alternate forms and foci certainly notwithstanding.

Would it be fundamentally unbalanced to allow Extras from borrowed abilities to be copied over without an additional Willpower investment? Know any other limitations or creative spins on the Power Mimic concept?

>>53439121
Some power types get the short end of the stick (mainly it's those that rely on Variable Effect, speedsters aren't great either unless you really hone in on what you want). One way to mitigate it is to have the mimicked power take additional flaws to cut some of the Variable Effect cost.

Example: Add If/Then (mimicked powers gain the One Use flaw) -1, to each of the qualities. This'll cut the cost down to 12pts per die and give up to 4pts of leeway on Extras as far as Willpower expenditure is concerned. The downside, naturally, is that each power can only be used once before needing to be mimicked again (of course, you could always substitute something else instead of One Use, it's just one of the higher cost choices).

>>53440254
I like this idea; I actually think you could step it up a notch and straight-up add Exhausted-3 to each Quality, and describe the effect as "You can use a copied power once before it goes away." So now you've dropped it from 15 pts to 12.

Also, Power Mimic's cost can be somewhat mitigated by just having a small dice pool. Having 4d+1wd in the base Power Mimic costs 120 pts, but the trade-off is that you can literally have *ANY* power, though not at the same intensity as someone with 10d in the power you copied.

Other Suggestions:

***Loopy-1 to say that copying a power is disorienting as your physiology is reconfigured to adopt the new ability

***if/then-1 to say that you ALWAYS copy the power of a metahuman you touch, Rogue style

***Obvious-1 to say that copying a power makes you glow super bright for a few seconds

>>53436438
Negotiating with Demons and Shadows should be as varied as interacting with people.

Jack Frost wants you to tell it a joke? Roll Expression + Charm. That Oni wants you to prove your strength? Roll Diligence + P.E. to arm wrestle it. Decarabia asks for a riddle? Roll Knowledge + Out-Think. No reason it has to be just one way. Enemies in Persona are weird and idiosyncratic, and your interactions with them should be just as strange and interesting.

>>53440467
>I like this idea; I actually think you could step it up a notch and straight-up add Exhausted-3 to each Quality, and describe the effect as "You can use a copied power once before it goes away." So now you've dropped it from 15 pts to 12.
That'd be 15 to 6, you get the reduction three times if you're sticking it on each quality.

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>>53407691
Holy shit, a general featuring MaoCT!

I've only had a chance to play this once (technically three time, but that's because we had two campaigns that died after one or two sessions, and then we had one that actually lasted a couple months before it died), where on earth do you guys find games for this online? I'd kill to play it again; System was pretty simple but the concept is really really fun to play with.

>>53436806
That's because Arsene is humanoid, so when I built him I approached him from that perspective. If I were stating out Joanna or something real weird like Feng Huang the locations would be totally different. MaOCT doesn't presume that your Kid's monsters will be even remotely humanoid, and most of the sample ones decidedly are not.

I'm in full agreement with >>53437816. The game needs to be designed to fit the experience of the platform. Persona the video game is a single player experience where you're expected to get into hundreds of battles that resolve in seconds; where who you can interact with and how is hard-coded into the system; and where if one character is weak or unbalanced you can just not use them and not end up with sour feelings and a bad experience. Basically none of that is true in a tabletop.

The goal here is to translate the feel and themes of Persona to the table in the best way possible. That can and has been done very easily with vanilla MaOCT rules; here we're just trying find ways to optimize how it can be done.

>>53440543
Whoops! How silly of me. Yeah, that would definitely knock Power Mimic down to Budget Tier.

>>53440635
This suddenly makes me want to run a MaOCT game where someone has the Philly Phanatic as their Monster.

>>53440652
One thing I'd allow to make Variable Effect a bit more palatable is buying up a Blank Extra of adjustable cost which provides leeway as far as point value of Extras producible without Willpower cost.

Example: Stick Blank (4) +4 on the qualities of Power Mimic, this'll allow you to copy powers with up to a positive value of 4pts of Extras per die before having to spend Willpower.

>>53440699
Ya know I never really thought about doing something like this before, but that makes perfect sense. I'm personally not a huge fan of stuff like Power Mimic and Gadgeteering costing Willpower to buy extras, so that's an awesome approach to the problem.

Question, how does taking Extra Tough work on Globular characters?

Some thoughts about Arcana that I had this morning during my morning workout (which is when I have most of my good ideas)

>1. Arcana isn't actually that important in Persona
This is less so the case in Persona 5, where specific Confidants give you very clear and very good bonuses as you rank them up, but that's really a factor of them_being_Confidants; what Arcana they are is really just an organizational tool and a way to link the progress of that Confidant with your ability to fuse better Personas. The facts that Ann is the Lovers and Morgana is the Magician and the goth doctor chick is the Devil aren't important in-and-of themselves as much more than window dressing, and a link to Jung's own psychiatric methods. You could just as easily replace them with, like Zodiac signs or something else. We could leave it out of this project entirely and not lose anything critical to the experience.

>2. Arcana as a spendable resource
One idea I had was that you could accumulate Arcana Points, kind of like how you could build up Tarot Cards in Persona 1-2 to cash in for new Personas. Here, you'd be able to get them by spending time with your Relationships linked with that Arcana; so if your Dad is a Relationship of the Heirophant, you could get Heirophant points by going to the batting cages with him. For each Relationship you can accumulate Arcana points up to its level; so if your Dad is a Rank 3 Heirophant Relationship, you'd top off at 3 Heirophant points.

You can spend these points to get Bonus Dice the same as you'd get from leaning on the relationship, but without risking the relationship itself. It represents, I suppose, your own inner growth vs just calling upon your emotional link with someone or something.

>>53441052
>3. Arcana and Sub-Personas
If a game is using Sub-Personas, here's what I figured: a Sub-Persona has a single dice pool between 5d and 10d. That pool can have Attacks, Defends and Useful Qualities on it, the same as a normal Persona, and it can have all three, but it's still just one dice pool, so they're never as versatile or as tough as your Main Persona. However, you can add the dice from a Relationship that shares its Arcana. As an example, let's imagine that Jack Frost is a 5d Persona with Attacks (Ice) and Useful (create ice) for 4d. If you have a Rank 2 Relationship with someone of the Magician Arcana it brings Jack Frost to 7d, so it can increase Attacks and Useful pool to 6d or buy some Extras.

>>53441052
>Arcana as a Spendable Resource
Forgot to add: my concern is that this could threaten the balance of the Relationship system. The whole game is a feedback loop of risking your relationships and then needing Quality Time to repair their Shock, and this system *could* either make that less punishing OR numb that incentive. I'd love so input on it.

>>53441043
One hit location, one extra box per width. On the plus side you can ditch the Engulf extra and save yourself 2pts per die.

>>53441170
yay. I guess.
Thanks.
At least I'll be able to afford a bunch of HD.

>>53441181
What kind of character are you making that has Globular as an Intrinsic?

>>53441181
You could be really cheeky and instead of taking Globular grab Custom Hit Locations and spread them out over all 10 numbers. 10 hit boxes per width that way.

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>>53441204
>>53441207
I'll check that out.
A toxic slime person.

>>53441052
>goth doctor chick is the Devil
She was Death, not the Devil; Ohya was the Devil.

Anyways, the thing with the Arcana points is that they only do something of you're using the system where you create more persona as you go on, so if we're going with that we would need to think if a way to make them matter in the other systems as well.

>>53441276
I always get Death and the Devil mixed up.

Arcana as a spendable resource works regardless of which system a group is using. If your Dad is the Heirophant at Rank 2, you have 2 Heirophant points you can spend to get bonus dice for stuff involving difficult Moral Choices. These points can be spent without risking your Relationship with your Dad; if you run out, then you need to start pulling on your Relationship directly, which puts it at risk for Shock.

>>53441364
question: would the points regenerate at the start of every session, or is a point gone forever if it's spent?

>>53441425
My thought would be that they regenerate at the start of each session (so long as a period of time has elapsed in-game between the sessions). In that way they're kind of like Base Will and Willpower in Wild Talents: Willpower is Easy Come, Easy Go, wheras Base Will packs more oomph but is hard to get back once you spend it.

If that threatens the feedback loop, then the solution is that Arcana only regenerates when you Spend Time with that Relationship, same as healing Shock.

Either would work; the question is which works *better*?

>>53441495
The first one makes more sense to me.

>>53441495
But this becomes silly when you have multiple relationships with this buffer on them. At that point there would be 0 incentive to actually risk your relationships.

Also, by giving a resource that regenerates per session, you're hooking your resources to the average length of a game with your group. Relationships as they are in the vanilla game are balanced out by the fact you always risk damage to them when you use them, and that you have to spend Quality Time to restore them.

Now, this works because there's a prescriptive concept to the game: Relationship damage. When your relationship is hurt mechanically then it's also hurt in the narrative and you have a reason to go spend quality time to fix it. This usually gives you a prompt for that quality time, a basic outline of what you're taking care of. A buffer could lead to emptier scenes.

My take on it is this: Get a list of arcana right there in the character sheet, with their basic meanings and tree of concepts and tell players to assign one to each relationship. Once that's done, we can tie each major Arcana to an extra. There's 14 extras in the game, 12 if we don't count Big and Range, 13 if we count an added dice to the pool as a possible bonus.

There's a few unofficial extras we can throw in here. Stuff like the helping hand boost the writer agrees would've been a good idea. If we're setting up an elemental system, we could separate immunities into the different types and get reasonably close to 22. I might give this a shot later.

Once that's done, link (feed) your Persona (monster) these relationships to gain a temporary amount of that extra, leaving the risk as it is.

>>53442341
There are also a few extras we could get from the games, like an extra that lets you treat it as extra dice but that takes away a die after use, to simulate the physical attacks that take away your health.

>>53442341
Hmm so what you're proposing is this:

Personas can Eat Relationships the same as Monster can to get bonus dice

HOWEVER, they can *ALSO* get specific Extras from Relationships that have a certain Arcana. So the Chariot can grant Wicked Fast, and Strength can grant Tough, for instance.

I assume you aren't suggesting that you can *only* get these specific Extras from Arcana, correct? Like you can still buy Wicked Fast and Tough for your Persona with dice the way you normally would, correct?

Because this sounds like an excellent idea. If we can indeed match-up the list of Extras to the Arcana, then I'd endorse this idea 100%.

My one thought is Awesome; Awesome is kind The Best Extra because it's universally useful for all qualities and in all circumstances. Would we exclude that from the list, for fear that it would make every player want to make sure they had a Relationship with that Arcana?

>>53442341
Here are the stated Extras from the vanilla game plus Bigger Bads:

Area
Awesome
Burn
Gnarly
Sharing (maybe sketchy)
Spray
Tough
Wicked Fast
Bounce
Immunity
Sweet
Splash

Ignoring Range and Bigness, and if we take out Awesome, then that's 11. Which means we're halfway there, although I'd argue we don't need an Extra for the World, since that's the traditional "The Game is Over" Arcana. So 21, which means we need 10 more Extras.

Also a Persona Question: Them is very important in MaOCT, such that there's a section in the core book that specifically addresses the common themes that the game explores.

I want to write up the core themes of the Persona games. I'm not really familiar with Persona 1-2 at all except on the most surface level. As I see it the other games are:

Persona 3: Dread. There is another world with its own terrible rules and it wants to destroy you. Forces beyond your control want to unravel existence as we know it, and survival, if it's possible at all, can only be achieved through sacrifice and, even then, only by the skin of one's teeth. It's even manifest in how the SEES team manifest their Personas: they force them out with technology, because they don't have the luxury of working through their feelings.

Persona 4: Self-actualization. The TV World is the manifestation of the suppressed desires of the people connected to it, and the only real way to stop its influence is to face those desires and reconcile with them. The power to summon Personas arises from this reconciliation. On the whole it's a lot more hopeful than P3: inner strength can defeat any threat.

Persona 5: Fight the Power. The Metaverse is the same dark reflection of unspoken desires as the TV World, but it coalesces around people who misuse and abuse their power and authority over others. Here the Persona is less an armor against the unknown (as in P3) or one's inner strength (as in P4) than it is a weapon to smash the system that's got its boot on your neck.

Do those sound about right?

I'm so glad other people use ORE. Thanks, /tg/.

>>53442666
Well, the easy solution is to stick Awesome as The Fool and make it a plot relationship like how the link in P4 is to the mystery.

Treat is as a special case, basically. "You can only use this during the finale", or something like that. Removing awesome till then seems like a good thing to do.

>>53444376
I know, right? These threads have been amazing since before they started I felt like the lone faithful man amidst a sea of infidels for years.

So some ideas for more MaOCT Extras:

Brutal: Brutal actions are unusually intense and hard to counteract. Each point of Brutal absorbs one Gobble Dice thrown at it.

Flexible: The Flexible Extra allows you to "squish" a Set by converted a point of Width into a point of Height, and vice versa. So you can turn a 3x4 into a 2x5 or into a 4x3. Each point of Flexible increases the number of times you can squish your dice-- but remember, a Set with a 1x Width is a failure, and you can't have less than 1 or more than 10 Height.

Pro: The Pro Extra can be applied to Useful Qualities. Each point adds +1 to the Height of your Set (to a maximum of 10).

Heavy: Normally in combat you lose a die from your best Set when you get hit. Well, the Heavy extra gives your attack more inertia, making it harder for other people to disrupt your action. Each point of Heavy you have in a location cancels the knock-off effect of an attack-- so with Heavy x2 it takes 3 attacks to knock a die off your Set.

How do these look?

>>53445313
Since Brutal gives a pretty nasty buff to Attacks Qualities, how about something that improves Defense?

Psyched: When you successfuly Defend against an attack, 1 Area die for each point of Psyched you have. You can recover a damaged die from each location that you roll.

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Here's an updated PDF for Persona and Other Childish Things. It includes the intro and the changes to character stats and skills.

One thing I was thinking is that for Diligence, the location affected is your Limbs in general-- your arms *and* legs; whereas for Proficiency it's specifically your hands. That way Diligence is more specific to physical strength and condition, and Proficiency to your dexterity and hand-eye coordination. How's that sound?

Someone should go to this thread >>53445932 and stat up Jetstream Sam in Wild Talents.

>>53446680
Also on this topic: would the availability of in-combat healing disrupt or simply augment the flow of fighting in MaOCT?

>>53441052
>a link to Jung's own psychiatric methods

This is part of what makes Persona feel the way it does, though. Characters slot into Jungian archetypes and the stories generated revolve around those themes. The underlying mechanics of the Persona video games build on those themes (you go through things with people, build them up, resolve their problems, all featuring a facet of the Arcana).

At the moment all the homebrew is sort of just a palette swap of MaOCT's combat/resolution rules; that's all well and good but I can't help but feel there's maybe a story-game angle or element that could drive an output that feels thematically closer to the games - I'm more in favour of doing something with Arcana, like your second option, than leaving it out.

>>53448084
Simplest way to do this in a storygame way would be to let people make their personas before they get to relationships and then pulling information on what extras are on their monster to make a list of arcana. Now those arcana are the basis of their relationships and they have to reference some facet of the conceptual tree in the relationship or character it introduces

>>53448084
Right now I think we're heading in the right direction with the idea that the Arcana of your Relationships allow you to buy certain Extras on the fly with your relationship dice; in addition to that there's the Sub-Persona rules that also pull from the Arcana, so I feel like we've developed pretty well on them. These premises feel right because they're evocative of the themes of both games without screwing up the quite rigorously balanced feedback loop of MaOCT.

What we could REALLY use right now is a breakdown of what *kind* of relationships should be linked with each Arcana. Some are fairly obvious to work out (Strength, Emperor, Heirophant, Devil) while others are bit more arcane (Moon, Sun, Star, for instance).

Another question!
For custom hit locations, how many dice is the minimum for it to work?

>>53448578
2d is all you need to attempt to get a set, but that power normally has 2hd.

For Wild Talents, when you're creating a miracle choosing hd will always get a 10 and it will be a full power attack to the head right? Like, you will always aim for the head or the most important part, as far as I understand.

But what if I want to have an attack that always targets someones arms or legs, instead of their head. So like, it always targets hit location 5, meaning your dice always roll 5? I'd rather not choose wiggle dice since you'd have the option to choose what they'd roll and you could hit different hit locations, and would cost more for what is basically a weaker miracle

>>53449308
Do you want it to be a hard-dice like attack that always hits the arms or legs or something? Or just a regular move you roll and if you get a set you hit the arms?

>>53449308
Ask your GM if you can use Expert Dice.

>>53448216
All of the S.Link/Confidant storylines in Persona follow the emotions and traits associated with each major Arcana. They're generally very consistent if you pay attention to the pattern of the Link between the recent games.

Moon, for example, is associated with hesitation, uncertainty, and fear - this is seen in the "struggle for approval and belonging" stories with Nozomi (P3), Ebihara (P4), and Mishima (P5). The Megami Tensei wikia pages on each of the Major Arcana highlight some of the major patterns seen in each across the modern games.

>>53449512
The way I'd do it is have an if/then-1 that states any attack with a Height above a 6 always hits the target's arm, and any attack with a height of 1-2 fails. That's would do the trick.

>>53449343
Like hard dice where it always hits someone's arms.

>>53449512
I guess this would work. Removing the rule where they can't be the same height, and limiting them to only 4 or 5

>>53449576
>>53449574
Fug, I meant Fixed Dice.
Those are what you want.
Hard Dice, but you set the height when you buy them.

>Meltdown (1)
>Qualities: U.
>Useful Extras and Flaws: Permanent +4, Self Only -3, If/Then (Would be Fatal Damage) -1. Capacity: Self.
>One of your brain boxes “splits off ” from your body, abandoning it in case of gross physical damage (only one can do so; the rest die along with the body). If this is done, you lose all Willpower points except 1. You then can heal your hit boxes back normally, up to your normal level, as per the healing rules on page 61.

I think this works, but it looks off.

>>53449576
Just do hard dice with the if/then-1 listed above. Or use Fixed Dice as >>53449596 mentioned; this is basically one situation that Fixed Dice are designed for.

>>53449596
oh shit i should have kept reading after the expert dice. Good call, thats exactly what I was looking for, thank you.

>>53449657
Going for the knees?

>>53449675
an archer character who can shoot arrows perfectly but only at the middle of people's legs

>>53449640
Eh, looks alright to me. Bit of a crazy power but nothing in this write-up seems wrong to me.

>>53449640
Looks pretty close to part of the Globular intrinsic (which I assume it's modeled off). Nothing wrong with it.

>>53449784
>>53451013
Thanks, I fucked up the math.

>>53448216
Sun is pretty easy, I think; I've never actually looked into the Sun confidants in the games I played, but The Sun as a card represents happiness, positivity, and energy. Sun confidants are the people who light up your day.

>>53451978
Nice; more of this is what we need. We also need the "Reverse" qualities of each Arcana-- their dark, shadowy sides. For instance, the Magician represents a source of learning and skill, but it can also represent false confidence in an inflated sense of ability (as I understand it)

>>53451978
Generally within the context of the games Sun S.Links are usually people who have optimism despite very dark circumstances: Akinari (P3) is living through a terminal illness, Yumi/Ayane (P4) go through personal troubles and worries, and Yoshida (P5) deals with cynicism of the voting public due to his past misdeeds.

>>53452111
As mentioned upthread, you can find most cross-game Arcana analysis on the Megami Tensei wikia pages: http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Arcana

"Reverses" generally were used to denote S. Links that you offended and thus rendered unable to progress (this was only in P3, usually as a result of trying to date two girls).

>>53452508
Right; what I meant is that each Arcana should have identifiable good sides and bad sides that can be drawn on when creating and interacting with characters.

>>53452111
>>53453028
We should probably go in order at this point so it's a little more organized.
The Fool is also pretty easy to figure out since it's everything it's title is. It represents potential, creativity, idiocy, foolishness, and the hero's journey. A Fool character is just as likely to be a valiant hero like the Persona protagonists or an idiotic wreck of a human being like Charlie Kelly from Always Sunny.

In ORE, most of your rolls are going to be Attribute + Skill. For Wild Talents Miracles, do you roll that or just the dice of the miracle itself?

>>53453281
Miracle dice. Unless it has Operational Skill.

Does anybody have a complete PDF for MaOCT?
I want to try it out before buying it.

>>53453961
Check Da Archive!

Trying to think things through for ORE Mechs.

At the moment, I'm trying to keep the pilot relevant in the rolls. This has led to statting things up as Focuses and Hyperskills. When rolling, you use the appropriate mech Attribute and pilot Skill. After success, you apply the effects of the weapon/equipment. This also has the bonus of giving the equipment hit boxes and having them assigned to hit locations on a mech. Another idea, which keeps things relatively close to WT, is to keep all the math, but to have the dice count as "space". This will be described below. but for now, we'll use the example of a Radar Jammer.

Radar Jammer: Used to conceal anything within a certain radius from casual radar scans.
Qualities: Useful +4, Ranged Capacity
Extras and Flaws: Focus (Adaptation, Delicate, Manufacturable) -2, Controlled Effect (Allies) +1, Duration +2, Interference +3, Radius +4, Delayed Effect -2

All in all that's about 9 points. It's located in a particular spot (the torso) and has 4 hit boxes worth of health. It can be disabled, but it interferes with radar within a 800-meter bubble, covering itself and its allies. It takes a bit of time to activate, though. To activate it, the pilot rolls Systems + Electronics (or maybe some other, specialized skill) and uses the width of that roll, plus 4 from the equipment itself, to combat any opposed rolls that might try to detect them or their group.

The alternate (actually original WT) system would increase the cost substantially, which could help keep things balanced and prevent mechs from getting ridiculously strong. Normally you create a Quality, Extra, and Flaw "package" that you then purchase dice for. So by doing something like that, the 9-point Radar Jammer would become 36 points (4 points of "usefulness" multiplied by the overall cost).

>>53407691
Okay, I'm interested.

Is there a link where I can download the full book for Monsters and Other Childish Things? The quickplay looks like too little instruction.

In Wild Talents is there anything like the summon power from Mutants and Masterminds? I saw the sidekick miracle but it seems to work very differently. In M&M you could basically stat up a new character, so I made skilled investigator that wasn't very good at combat, and a much stronger android sidekick that could actually fight.

>>53455633
You can make that pretty easily by attaching Hyperstats and Hyperskills to the sidekick power.

>>53455870
To clarify: in Wild Talents you can buy Hyperstats like Hyperbody and Hypercoordination at a discounted rate (4 points instead of 5 points). Normally these are applied to the character who has the power (so a character with 4d in Body and 4d in Hyperbody has a total Body of 8d, allowing them to lift several tons). However, if we add the Attached Flaw to the Hyperstat, which reduces its cost by -2, you can give your Sidekick normal character Stats at a cost of 2 pts per die. You can do the sale with Hyperskills at a cost of 1 pt per die; in so doing it would be pretty easy to create a full-blooded, full bodied sidekick like you described.

>>53455230
You can find the 52 page original core book pretty easily on Google, which has all you need to play. To get the most out of the game though you'll probably want to pick up the 192-page Completely Monstrous Edition off DriveThruRPG for $15.00. So track down the 52 page one and see if it floats your boat, then by the Monstrous Edition. It's completely worth it.

How should the Aeon, Jester, and Hunger arcana be handled?

>>53445313
>and vice versa
NO. Rolling 6 damage to the Diligence is WAY more powerful than rolling 3 damage to the Guts. Flexible shouldn't be exploitable as a "Add X many dice to your roll, no limit". Also, with those rolls one might need to sacrifice 3 Width just to shift from the guts to the feet, which is too strong a counter for changing locations considering that even 1 Tough can negate the strongest of rolls. Maybe
>"Can shift the Hit location up or down by one for every Width they give up, up to the quantity of Flexible"
instead of
>"Can shift Height into Width or vice versa up to the quantity of Flexible".

>>53459618
Fair enough; Squishy dice work just fine in other ORE games but MaOCT's unique take on damage presents its own problems. Good call.

Question: I'm guessing that there's no real advantage to having a Penetration equivalent, which negates points of Tough, right? Since all Extras have the same cost it means Gnarly is just *better*

Idea: since Health = Power in MaOCT, it means healing is a very powerful too; so how about if it was its own Extra?

Recovery: This Extra allows a Useful Quality to restore Width-1 in dice lost to damage to a targeted Monster. Since this is extremely powerful, it can only be used once per fight; each point of Recovery you have gives you another use (so Recovery x3 can be used three times in a fight)

>>53460074
Would sweet increase the healed amount?

>>53447955
Are we doing that? With that we'd need it to be shitty or have SP to prevent basically unlimited heals. Also note that limiting healing to "in battle only" in M&OCT will probably be hella immersion breaking no matter what justification we give.

Unless healing another is weak or comes at the cost of a finite resource (HP/dice, relationships dice, items) I can't see the cost of "using up a valuable turn" alone as an adequate cost.

>>53426292

I'm jumping in on this late, but you could make the wildcard the whole point of the campaign. No one is a wildcard because the wildcard is the main antagonist of the game, and why that is and how it happened would be the thrust of the adventures.

>>53460328
Check out the Recovery extra posted just above you.i think it's a nice compromise.

>>53459536
I'm wondering of we should allow PCs to have them or not. The one that's most suspect is Hunger, for obvious reasons.

>>53461574
I don't see why not if it isn't handled well.

>>53460136
Sure. I think it balances with the dice cost mechanic since it costs an entire die just to be able to heal once. You could end up with something crazy like Sweet x2 Recovery x2 to be able to heal for Width+1 dice twice per fight, but that's going to be attached to either a real small dice pool or a very vulnerable, easy to hit one.

Either way I think there needs to be *some* kind of healing mechanic, since an entire Arcana, the Lovers, is pretty much all about healing.

>>53459618
What if you could only Squish up then? In that sense you're sacrificing and power for precision. Although in that case it ends up being a worse version of Pro; to compensate we can make it a 1:2 trade, where 1 Width translates to 2 Height; that way you get more bang for your buck compared with Pro, which is +1 Height per point, but the cost of a narrower Set.

>>53429361

Almighty is non-elemental, which is special as SMT otherwise gives everything an element, even basic physical attacks (either in the form of a physical element or seperate ones for slash, strike and pierce). Almighty also ignores unconventional defences like damage reflecting barriers.

If an almighty attack hits, it WILL work baring some seriously OP shit that puts the target on a completely different level to the attacker (such as Izanami right before Izanagi-no-okami is formed).

Otherwise, yes those are the mainstay elements though mainline calls wind "force" (and the spells "zan") and the name of light and dark varies alot even if it's literally the same otherwise.

Speaking of Elements, we still haven't quite got to an agreement on how Weaknesses and Resistance should work.

It's notable that Bigger Bads has an "Immunity" extra that can make part of a Monster unharmed by specific threats like Fire or Bullets or whatever, in so far as they're able to hurt them at all. Normal weapons and environmental threats don't damage a Monster, but other Monsters can; so a policeman shooting at your Monster won't do any good anyway, but if your Monster is Angel Eyes the skeleton cowboy, his bone revolvers can still hurt your Monster, unless they strike a Location that has Immunity: Gunfire.

So that shows there's precedent for locational defenses like that. We could either adapt that system as a Resist Extra, or use it wholesale. As I've posted I'm kind of a fan of Resistances and Weaknesses being location-based so as to make it less likely that a single Persona will steamroll or be stone-walled by an enemy because of Elemental Interactions.

I'm not famillier with the system or caught up to where you are, but about your stonewalled problem: you really shouldn't be making personae limited enough for that to be common even with global resist tables.

In addition to everything having some kind of phys option (and phys generally be much more rarely resisted and nulled, maybe make phys resist/immunity more expensive?) Most personae should have 2-3 combat option catagories. This means supporters should have at least 2 ways to attack (phys and thier element of choice) while dedicated attackers could/should have access to a 3rd. Ingame ulling more than 1 element is fairly rare until you get to endgame, especially if one of them is phys(all of 6 personae have a phys nullification or better at all in P5), so times someone should be stone walled and also lack appreciable support should be rare indeed and easilly avoidable by a competent GM.

The only possible exception is phys based personae, but going for a P3 style 3 physical elements system should allow you to give your physical attackers more elements to work with if they are creative (immune to your sword users slash attacks? Hit them with the pommel for strike or stab them for pierce instead). If you style after P5 there's also guns, which everyone has and are themselves an element in alot of games (though P3 put them under pierce). If all else fails attack items exist in the games, are usable by anyone and can cover a variety of elements, think airzookas or firecrackers, so with preperation there should always be options even if they arent good options.

And this is assuming you can't fall back on your support options or playing good cop to the partys bad cop for talkdowns, or taking advantage of the fact you probably resist/null them too and being the tank by taunting them and guarding.

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>>53407691

Any advice for a guy who wants to make a campaign mixing fantasy and western with ORE ? (Not Deadlands I swear)

Also, for the truely linear personae, there's break skills that simply remove the immunity.

>>53464204
Some very compelling points here. I'm probably being overly cautious with regards to the possibilities of sweeping and walling.

I decided to cook up a Strawpoll to see the overall attitude of posters in this thread. The specifics aren't important at this stage, just the overall approach we should take:

https://strawpoll.com/8yzrz9z

>>53464353
Check out This Favored Land, which is Wild Talents during the Civil War:

>http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/60505/Wild-Talents-This-Favored-Land

>>53464353
Use this rule for gun fighting:

QUICKDRAW
>Drawing a holstered weapon is its own action; if you want to draw and shoot at the same time, your Set goes off as if it was 1 Width slower.

>Example: Blondie and Tuco are in a gunfight. Blondie has his revolver in hand, but Tuco's is holstered. Blondie opens fire and Tuco draws and shoots. Blondie rolls a 2x7 and Tuco rolls a 3x4; however, since Tuco needed to draw his weapon first, his Set has an effective speed of 2x4, meaning Blondie's shot hits him first.

>>53464532
That's good. Is it a gobble dice or just the width reduction for initiative purposes? Ie. If somehow Tuco had still shot first (say Blondie rolled 2x2) would he still have done 3SK to Blondie's left arm despite the action resolving at Width 2?

>>53464659
It's just for timing purposes, but of course if you get hit first you lose a die, so being too slow can ruin your Set too.

>>53464752
That's what I figured.

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>>53407691

Total newbie here, I'm kind of interested by the ORE system.

What's the best game to begin with ? I'd like a game that introduces me to the system so I can switch to the other games without any worries.

>>53464829
Depends on what you're after. There are two subtypes of ORE game: Better Angels and A Dirty World take a narrative spin on the system and have a whole thing about sliding stats back and forth (example: you could use your Understanding Honesty to catch someone in a lie and reduce or shift their Deceit over to Honesty to reduce their ability to keep lying).

The others: MAOCT, Godlike, Wild Talents, Reign, Nemesis et al are more simulationist in nature, although this varies. You'll generally have a distinction between Stats and Skills and whatever else the system uses and they wont move around too much.

For someone new my main suggestion would be to make your decision based on the type of game you're interested in. The core mechanic (dice pool, width and height) is consistent between all ORE games, the only major differences are the two subtypes mentioned above.

>>53465026

I'm after a simulationist system but without super powers. Thing is half of the games seems to be about that, and I don't like cosmic horror so Nemesis doesn't interest me.

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>>53465077
You could run Wild Talents san superpowers, there's nothing that says they're mandatory (and it works fine since characters are baseline people in all arenas they don't take powers for).

The attached pdf has a take all comers approach, but it's GURPS-like in that it has everything and not all the parts are meant to be used at once. I wouldn't recommend it being used as the basis for a game, especially to someone new to the system, but it shows some of the other things that can be done with it.

Do you have any more specific ideas about the kind of game you want?

>>53464402
>https://strawpoll.com/8yzrz9z

I would say that if you take a resistance, you also have to take a weakness at the same location you take the resistance. Additionally, you can only take resistance for 1 element overall on your persona. Allows for the flavor of the game, without making it too complex for the translation to tabletop.

>>53465180

Pretty much the same thing than >>53464353 but without the fantasy element.

A western campaign that's gritty and realistic (red dead redemption style)

>>53465077
Reign might be your bag; it's real crunchy (it even has rules for moving specific distances in combat) and is flexible enough to play in a fantasy setting (which is the default) and in a more modern setting (the module "Out of the Violent Planet" which has deeper rules for how guns work). It should be extremely simple to modify it for whatever you want (I'm in the process of converting it for space adventures).

It's also got amazing rules for Factions which can be used with ANY one roll engine game.

>>53465213
>>53465314
Specifically, check out the Reign: Enchiridion. It's $10.00 on DTRPG (and you can probably find a PDF of it somewhere too). It's got the setting stuff of Reign scrubbed out and lots of nice Do It Yourself tools included that is perfect for a homebrewed setting. You could run almost any setting with it.

>>53465314
>It's also got amazing rules for Factions which can be used with ANY one roll engine game.

This is good to note. The faction section isn't tied to the rest of the system. If you don't need it, dump it.

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Does anybody have any poimters for converting MaOCT into a JoJo game?
I am pretty in love with the Teacher from the Black Lagoon vibe from the base book but I promised my party a JoJo game.

Considering M&OCT is balanced so that Immunity to, say, "pointy things that hurt" costs a single die, I really don't think a Resistance to a single body part could have a balanced price we could even integrate into this game. Perhaps Ummunities should be per body-part while Resistances are whole-body?

>>53465825
if you promised them a JoJo game you should do your best to make sure it's at least half JoJo

>>53466040
We may be better off striking Immunity from the system entirely, or replacing it wholesale with the Resistance system. Just a thought.

>>53465825
Honestly it's probably as easy as the Persona conversion. The big thing I'd say is change the rule where Physical Damage to Monsters = Emotional Damages to Kids, since in Jojo physical damage transfers over directly.

>>53465825
There's an optional rule in the Bigger Bads supplement that says you can give your players an extra die if they shout their action and pose dramatically while performing. Not the characters: the actual players. I feel like that fits in pretty well here.

One of the points you'd want to make is definitely shifting the focus *away* from the Monsters and onto the player characters as far as weirdness is concerned, because most Stands don't have their own personalities. So the dynamic of players interacting with their Monsters and dealing with Motivation and Favorite things, etc... is stripped away. I'm also not really sure what place the Relationships system would have in a Jojo game, although every single Jojo part is pretty much a whole new thing so you could easily theme this one around the power of friendship.

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>>53466331
I plan on going full JoJo even if the base setting is pretty neat.
I plan on setting it in the world at the very end of Stone Ocean.
>>53466337
Sounds easy enough.
>>53467142
>Bigger Bads.
That rule is definitely going to be enforced.
Does anybody have the .pdf?
I can't find it in the archive.
As far as relationships go, maybe I could have them gain points from befriending rival stand users?
That happens quite a bit in JoJo.

Remember too that you can have relationships with things. Like your amazing hair style. Or, uh, cherries.

>>53467601
>I can't find it in the archive.
Its there in a .rar with the core and all splats.

>>53467601
it's larger than 8 MB, le sigh.

ordinarily this would be illegal, but if I know you IRL and you're the only who sent be this link originally i'm really just returning a the book you lent me it's OK, right?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7lBWpRYhgPVUzgtaEE5UXAtWW8/view?usp=sharing

Should shadows get any special rules?

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>>53468893
Thanks Anon!

are there degrees of success in ORE?

>>53470999
Yes.
Width and Height.

>>53455230
I recommend buying the books you intend to play too, but if you want to look at it beforehand, here you go: https://files.catbox.moe/ydaa2z.zip

>>53471386
To add to this:

A Set's Width describes its speed and intensity, whereas its Height describes its accuracy, proficiency and how difficult it is to stop. So an action that has a Set of 4x2 will happen before an action with a Set of 2x10, but the 2x10 will be executed with greater alacrity.

For some actions, Width matters more than Height. If you're trying to outrun someone and you roll a 4x1 vs their 2x8, you put distance between the two of you. Granted your stride looks like an octopus falling out of a tree, whereas their form is perfect and gazelle like, but it doesn't really matter if all you want to do is escape.

Other action favor Height. If someone is hiding with a Stealth set of 3x2 and you're trying to find them with a Perception of 2x10, you're going to do it-- they may be quick about getting into cover, but if their leg is sticking out from under the desk you're going to see them.

In combat, both matter. Width tells you how fast you attack and how strong your attack is, whereas Height tells you where you hit. So a 4x1 is a blinding fast blow to the leg that inflicts 4 Shock, whereas a 3x8 is a swift but slightly softer hit to the center of mass, and a 2x10 is a blow to the head.

That's just a brief rundown; the actual interactions of these elements can be even more interesting and complex when you start to really dig into the system.

Man, the Monsters and Other Childish Things game stuff looks fun, I wish I could find someone to play it with

>>53476534
I've found it has lots of seeking players and few DMs. ...Tbh I've also found it's a great game to practice DMing with. I had only ever run one one-shot before starting with my M&OTC group and I have no idea why they put up with my newb mistakes... until I remember that they'll never find another game and many of them have been looking for a group for years, with basically no potential to ever find a group in person.

>>53478015
It also helps that ORE is very newbie friendly. I introduced my wife to roleplaying with Wild Talents; she'd never even heard of a tabletop roleplaying game before, and now she GMs as much as I do.

If you've got nerdy friends who've never thought about tabletop gaming before, give it a try; most ORE games a lot more accessible than, say, Dungeons and Dragons, IMHO.

So here's the basic outline for the Persona and Other Childish Things module:

1. Introduction

2. Character Creation
...a. Updated Stats
...b. Updated Skills
...c. Arcana and Relationships

3. Personas
...a. How Personas are the same as Monsters
...b. How Personas are different from Monsters
...c. Building a Persona
...d. Extras
...c. Elements
...e. Arcana

4. Combat
...a. Elemental Attacks
...b. One-More, Hold-Up and All Out Attacks
...c. Invoking Arcana

5. The Velvet Room (Running the Game)
...a. Themes of Persona
...b. Creating a Persona setting
...c. Shadows and other Threats

6. Other Rules
...a. Sub-Personas
...b. Wild Cards

Anything that we're clearly missing here?

In the event that this thread gets archived over Memorial Day, what should the theme of the next one be? A continuation of this project? More Wild Talents stuff? Something else?

>>53479660
Seems solid, Anon.

>>53480134
A continuation would be best.

>>53480446
Someone give me a good picture to use for the OP then. Something that I can nicely fit the MaOCT logo into.

>>53407872
>>53425757
The question is: Are there any traceable themes between the Arcana across the Persona games that could be used as archetypes or classes?

>>53482558
There are, though some are more obvious than others. Magicians tend to be fanciful and fairytale-like, as with Pixie, Jack Frost and Jack O'Lantern. The Fool likes Tricksters like Sand Man and Loki (unless I'm mistaken). Emperors are usually physically imposing and regal, Strength-types are brutish warriors, Lovers are healers, Chariots are speedy. Others are harder to nail down like Moon, Star and Hanged Man but someone who knows more than I do about SMT could probably do it.

>>53482558
>>53482865
Building on this:
>Tower
>associated with destruction or was once well loved but fell from grace
>The Devil
>usually straight demons or brutal, evil monsters like Incubus

>>53482558
>>53482865
>>53483333 (checked)
Just take stuff from the SMT wiki: http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Arcana

>>53483950
>Reich arcana
my favorite

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>>53484205

>>53484361
Honestly, I think the shades actually worked for his design

So how should we differentiate between The Chariot and Strength for Personas? There's a lot of overlap there.

>>53484853
I think that Chariot is more about defensive power and steadfastness, whereas Strength is more offensive power and courage.

>>53484853
The Chariot is all about aggressive action and charging firth while Strenght is more internal strength and the will to do the right thing, so we should start from there.

Not unrelated to several recent posts, I suggest reading up on the meanings of actual tarot cards. Even with only the first few hours of two games under my belt I'm beating my friends to the distinctions between similar cards in the series without even having seen characters of that card yet. The game's creators did their research and their source material is open source.

>>53486751
This link here has given me some helpful insights:

>http://www.tarotcardmeanings.net/majorarcana/

For instance, seeing that the Magician represents "surpassing the plausible" and a miraculous outcome that may be an illusion puts Kenji in P3 in perspective!

So here's the updated list of MaOCT Extras based on what's been suggested in this thread:

Area
Burn
Gnarly
Sharing
Spray
Tough
Wicked Fast
Bounce
Immunity
Sweet
Splash

>>53445313
Brutal
Pro
Heavy

Psyched (>>53446680)
Recovery (>>53460074)

Flexible (>>53445313, >>53463104)

That's 17 (Excluding Awesome) Extras for 21 Arcana (Excluding The World), so we only need 4 more Extras.

Random thoughts: What if the Arcana you choose for your Persona gives you one free Extra that you can apply anywhere? Like if your Persona is the Chariot you get a free Wicked Fast you can put somewhere.

Also based on the strawpoll (https://strawpoll.com/8yzrz9z) it looks like we're favoring the idea of Resistances and Weaknesses being intrinsic qualities for a Persona that cover its entire body, instead of being locational. Still open for discussion though.

Coming with Extras is hard.

Should we use the piercing/slashing/blunt physical system or the physical/gun system?

>>53493977
As with the Elemental List, I think that depends on the way the GM wants to run the game. It's done differently in each of the games from P3-P5, so there's clearly no one true way.

Anyone thinking of running a game of Monsters?

I really wanna try playing it

What's left that still needs figured out?

So correct me if I'm being a complete idiot...but it seems like in Wild Talents you can just...completely break the combat system? I guess I just don't understand how defense works. Like say you have a power that has engulf on the attack portion with a few wiggle dice, give yourself a 4 or 5 width roll in combat...boom...someone is generally fucked...Is that how this is supposed to work?

>>53497833
Pretty much.

Thing is, it's pretty easy to break on the defensive side too. Let's compare costs:

Engulf Attack 5d+2wd (4 pts per die; 52 pts)
>Attacks Extras and Flaws: [Engulf+2] Capacities: Range
EFFECT: This attack inflicts Width in Shock and Killing to every it location.

Unbreakable Heavy Armor 2hd (8 pts per die; 32 pts)
>Defense Extras and Flaws [Armored Defense-2, Interference+3, Endless+3, Hardened Defense+2] Capacity: Self
EFFECT: This power grants HAR2 to every hit location, and it is immune to the effects of the Penetration Extra

So yes, you've got a power that has an Excellent Chance at inflicting 4 Shock and Killing to every location, but you've ALSO got a power that ALWAYS knocks 2 dice off every Attack Set that comes at it, meaning anything less than 4-Width simply fails, and even a mighty 4-Width set is gobbled down to 2-Width. And it's cheaper. And you can't pierce it with Penetration. And that's without worrying about any other Extras and Flaws.

It's not so much that Wild Talents is broken inherently, it's just extremely modular. If you don't want to have to deal with that level of power gaming, you just let your players know what range of power the game is set at. If you're going to allow your players to cut loose, you have the tools to respond in kind. Nothing is *truly* broken because the tools exist to counter any scenario.

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>>53497833

>>53499043
Best sidebar in a superhero game, ever.

>>53497833
pretty much every supers game can be broken

>>53497351
I think the arcana, and then we might be done.

>>53501788
That's the most elaborate piece of raw content that needs to be worked out. I'm going to work on the actual module write-up this coming week.

We also need to configure 4 more Extras (or at least 4 more Arcana bonuses), per this post >>53491379

Can I get a Persona pic for the new thread?

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>>53503891

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>>53503891

>>53504542
Wicked.

How about something featuring a Persona itself? Works nicely for the MaOCT connection.

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>>53504542
nah, something with more color

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>>53504665

>>53504762
Liking this; I'll make the logo orange to pop out nicely.

In the middle of some Wild Talents right now; if the thread gets Archived tonight i'll make a new one tomorrow or Wednesday after I compile our notes about Persona and Other Childish Things into a document to share with the thread.

Question for the devs as I've only read the OP and get thh jist of what the project is. How will you be handling Arcana affinity? In the P3-5 fashion or the P1-2 fashion?

What I mean is will everyone be able to equip persona freely, and equip persona of their non-dominant arcana at the cost of greater SP costs? Or is this going to be like the P3-5 games where you only get one persona and rank it up?

I'm asking because I hate the wildcard attribute of the Fool arcana that was introduced in the PS2 era and for a Tabletop having everyone get the same flexibility as the parties in P2 seems like the better design choice.

>>53507048
There are going to be rules for both approaches as well as middle ground options. The default approach is P3-P5 without any Wild Cards because that's basically the default in Monsters and Other Childish Things, and we believe that most players prefer to have a Persona that is unique to them and an important, intrinsic part of their characters; but as you mentioned there are advantages to how P1-P2 handles it, so that system will be supported as well.

>>53507160
Thank you, that sounds like the best road to take. And yeah, I've always preferred the party setup for P1-2 because it makes the group feel more, connected(?) or at least more flexible. But the tradeoff is that starter persona aren't really that special and all persona can feel pretty disposable with that system.

I don't know about Monsters and Other Childish Things but I'll assume that it's a "one creature, one character" kind of system so that will be what the later Persona titles give with the non-wildcard members.

>>53507232
You should stick around for the next thread. Personas 1 and 2 aren't as well known and having some insight on those would be helpful.

Also just finished a Wild Talents game where my party faced this guy: >>53411390. I'll post about it in the morning (or in a new thread if this one gets archived)

So here's how last night's Wild Talents went.

The Party:

>The Leopard: A shape shifter and a ridiculously powerful knife user
>Siberian Express: A SAMBO expert from Moscow who can control carbon to make his skin into armor and set off explosions within a 12-foot radius
>Zero-Point: A hindi gunslinger wielding a pair of non-lethal pistols as well as what is essentially a very lethal Caster Gun with the numbers filed off
>Pathos: A telepath whose REAL power is that she's incredibly dangerous with a bow and arrow

Backstory: the city has set-up a task force called the Parahuman Crimes Force, a police squad comprised of guys with superpowers aimed at prosecuting both parahuman criminals and vigilantes alike. They have a contact within the PCF who's sympathetic to them, and to prove that they can be reliable allies they've decided to basically become bounty hunters and track down some of the city's more dangerous parahuman criminals. Their first target was Dale "Crackerjack" Ramon Alvarez (>>53411390), who can transform organic tissue he touches into an explosive.

The Plan: Crackerjack is a member of Los Amigos del Diablo, the city's dominant hispanic gang. The Amigos are currently at war with an African-American gang called the Tribe, and the party decides to use that to their advantage. They drive into Tribe territory and Leopard impersonates Crackerjack and walks into a soul food restaurant where a Tribe boss named Thugee is hanging out (a guy she's dealt with before). She orders some food, taunts the Tribe guys inside, and then pretends to use a chicken wing as a grenade to blow up Thugee's ride (it was actually Siberian Express blowing the car up with good timing; the party reasoned that the exact nature of Crackerjack's powers aren't widely known so the Tribe wouldn't realize that what Leopard was pretending to do wouldn't work). The Tribe mobilizes and rolls out in force to attack Crackerjack.

>>53511631
Needless to say within a minute there are half a dozen Tribe members crumpled on the ground with gaping craters in their bodies. The Leopard morphs into a fallen Amigo, gets in close and then tries to knife two of Crackerjack's bodyguards. This sets off the fight itself.

Things went, from my perspective, awesomely. At any given time, two of Crackerjack's boys are rolling Block to protect him while the other two are attacking to open up opportunities for their boss. In the first round he slashes Leopard's body armor open, and in the second round manages to plant a 3x8 explosive right in her chest. Bam. Timer is going. I roll 1d and each round after she rolls 1d, and if it matches the die I rolled her bomb goes off. A few rounds later he slings a razor at Zero-Point's arm and is able to put a bomb in there too (not great for a gunslinger). Meanwhile, Siberian Express and Zero-Point are focusing on taking down his body guards as Leopard tries to slash through Crackerjack's bullet proof vest and Pathos is pinning the rest of the still-active Amigos, who were statted as Minions, from a comfy sniper's nest. She didn't take any damage for the entire fight.

One by one Crackerjack's boys go down. Zero-Point shoots one in the face with a non-lethal bullet as Siberian Express suplexes another into the hood of a car (S.E.'s player's interpretation of SAMBO leans heavily toward the Zangeif side of things). The fight goes on for 10 rounds, and each time Leopard and Zero-Point are rolling and their bombs aren't going off. Crackerjack has to burn a point of Base Will to keep himself going-- at this stage my entire goal is to keep the fight going long enough for one of their bombs to go off. It's timed to explode at the start of the Resolve phase, so even if someone rolls a KO on Crackerjack that turn, their bomb will explode before it hits.

>>53511816
In the final round of the fight, when both of Crackerjack's arms are filled with damage and his torso has one open box, Leopard rolls her number. BAM. 3 Shock and 3 Killing to her chest. Big smoldering hole. Inspite of the damage, Leopard delivers the finishing blow and Crackerjack drops. Luckily for the party, Pathos has very good Medicine so they rush her away to their hideout to fix the damage as Zero-Point calls in the hit. Upon reviewing the operation, the party comes to the conclusion "Sometimes things have a way of getting away from us..."

>>53507325
Sure, I'll do a small writeup on how affinity works for P1 and P2 and drop it in the next thread or whenever I finish. It's some interesting stuff and a good excuse to dust off my old games.

>>53511914
Excellent, glad to have more input. My only experience with P2 is an LP of Eternal Punishment.

One last bump for interest; otherwise I'll see you folks in the next thread.