Fallout Inspiration Thread

>>53397421
Only idea I got is a quest that involves the scouts for the NCR and Legion. Maybe give the PCs a chance to run into them and either help or hinder them in some way.

>>53397476
A small group of NCR rangers have started scouting out possible settlement locations, and have set up a hideout in an old firewatch tower in a national park? Sounds cool as fuck.

>>53397421
I've actually played in games in that sort of setting. Google some places that are in the area on maps, then take a look around on street level. Now imagine that post-apoc and let it inspire you.

>>53397719
For example, check out Palm Gardens NV. First thing that comes to my mind is some sort of walled community.

>>53397421
Read up on the real world locations in the area you are running, then throw it in the 50's machine and give it an apocalypse paint job

A side quest could be someone got exposed to the same sort of FEV Harold from fallout 1 got exposed to. But instead of growing a tree, nothing happens. He hires the PCs to figure out his mutation.

Come across some traveling merchants, turns out they are cannibals but are kind of friendly and are generally nice people but really really like long pig.

>Do you sell slaves and orphans to them for discounts and access to more rare weapons, equipment and ammo?

>Do you wipe them out and take their stuff?

>Do you join them and learn the ways of the cannibal?

>Do you sell them out letting the surround folks know that they are cannibals in attempt to boost rep with local folks?

>

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I did a fallout Tabletop RPG set in florida once.

This might sound dumb, but what about some wasteland superheroes. A group of like, one two humans, a super mutant, a nightkin and a ghoul. You hear rumors about a group of vigilantes wandering through the wastes saving people, but also killing some people that the party considers not-evil.

>>53399165
8/10, would travel with.

>>53397977
>Do you join them and learn the ways of the cannibal?
"See this dude? Eat him. That's it."

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>>53397421
>Fallout themed game set in southern California, 20 years before New Vegas
I'm not sure you know what that means, but I'm happy to oblige

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>>53399614

Isn't that the timeframe of the war between the BoS and the NCR? Would make a good central point if so.

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>>53399645

>>53399670
Nope, that's already the time when BoS is barely holding, and the main stage of war ended a decade ago. So technically the war still continues, but it's pretty much a bunch of protracted sieges at this point.

>>53399134
Veronica is a dyke(literally, she says she's gay) "capeshit girl" insert btw. The only good follower is Lily and the only good faction is Caesar's Legion.

>>53399165
Have any storytime of that? I'm thinking of running a Fallout game in Florida and any ideas would be great.

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>>53399825
>the NCR is bad because its based on an old world way of thinking with old world methods
>lets base our faction on an even OLDER way of thinking
What did he mean by this?

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>>53400694
NCR is a constitutional republic, and the Legion is an empire. The concept if a constitutional republic and democracy as a whole older than the Roman empire style government.

Plus the NCR is a corrupt burewcratic organization that's shills for mafia organization like the Red Caravan Company and the Van Graffs, who are made up of competing constitutionalist factions and corrupt hyper corporatists. After their president dies the NCR will have a civil war and will inevitably decline. Play the Cass storyline you tard.

The point of the Legion is to eventually become a republic styled after the Roman empire with a central paganistic religion to have a die hard following that can withstand the horrors of the waste with fanaticism to cleanse the wastes of raiders, chems, and mutated creatures. The legion is the only way forward.

>>53400825

>despotic empire having any chance of turning back into a republic

Because that worked so well for the actual Rome.

>>53400825
>babies first politics
jesus christ

>>53400960
Ancient Rome when it was a republic actually elected temporary dictators in times of crisis until peace was restored. Thats where fascism gets it's idealogical roots desu

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_dictator

>>53400990
>Babies first historical analysis

By Jupiter...

>>53400825
It's a ultra-militarised personality cult full of child-soldiers. It's basically one of the more twisted east African militias: Post Apocalypse edition.

And Caesar, due to 'muh Hegelian dialectics' thinks that his militia conquering a stable democracy with an advanced infrastructure and civil service, will result in The Perfect Society™ because whenever two societies engage in total, existential war with one another, the result is ALWAYS symbiosis, because Hegel's thought experiment is definately supposed to be applied wholesale to entire societies.

If you think the Legion is the only way forward, you'd presumably like to live in say, the USA, but with the entire executive and legislative branches, plus the armed forces, replaced with a bunch of drugged up former child-soldiers who deal with disagreement in policy by emptying a magazine of 7.62 into the offender's head and selling their female family members into slavery.

Because that's essentially what the Legion, who have been trained since birth to hate not just the NCR's ideals, but it's 'profligate' population as well, would be like if it managed to conquer the NCR.

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>>53400825
>After their president dies the NCR will have a civil war and will inevitably decline. Play the Cass storyline you tard.
And the Legion doesn't have a similar issue? They flat out tell you that the Legion will tear itself apart without Caesar. Without Caesar leadership falls to Lanius and both Caesar and Vulpes Inculta think he's a nitwit. A capable and brutal commander, of course, but the brutality of the Legion is intended to be intelligently directed. Showmanship to make their enemies cower and the subjects of the Legion stay in line. Lanius doesn't have the political savvy to rule the Legion except as the warrior chieftain, not a statesman. He certainly wouldn't institute a republic to replace his rule. Just compare the endings with Caesar still alive to rule under Lanius.

With that chucklehead in charge the Legion will fracture under its own growing resentment and unrest, turn inward, and tear itself to pieces, probably within 10 years.

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>>53397977
Always Option B.

If they didn't want to be shot and looted, they'd have stayed in the towns.

>>53400825
Except the Legion is held together by a single charismatic despot whose death will inevitably spark a civil war between his underlings. The Legion itself is only succeeding due to it's primary opponents being a small groups of disorganized raiders and it's conflict with the NCR hinges on the NCR's internal squabbles between military commanders creating demoralized and poorly supplied ground forces. Even with it's numerical and strategic superiority it still can't manage to secure a decisive victory against the NCR. Not only that, but the Legion's current form requires constant expansion in order to function.

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>>53400825
>burewcratic

This explains the rest of the content of the post actually...

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I don't have any stimulating conversation to add to this thread, but I do have art, so I'll dump some of that.

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>>53401241

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>>53401257

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>>53397977
Grill em about what kind of cannibal they are.

If they specifically go out of their way to eat people? That's a problem. If they just happen to recycle raiders they kill after they get attacked? That's fine.

>>53401114
>Drugged up

No drugs

>Child soldiers

Children aren't given drugs, and I guess you've never heard of military boarding school? Just because you are raised to be aoslidwr does not make you messed up, Romans were expected to he able to fight in the early days and were taught how to fight when they kids, jur like all ancient socities did. Topkek, you are only ever shown the military camp of the legion which is made up of soldiers , their society is not only soldiers and slaves , they have peace time as well.

So you saying

Because that's essentially what the Legion, who have been trained since birth to hate not just the NCR's ideals, but it's 'profligate' population as well, would be like if it managed to conquer the NCR.

Is ridiculous. People can still be civilians and the military does not hate it's own. Profilgates = non Legion , degenerate, etc. In the post apocalypse, yeah, you'd be pretty radical.

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>>53401284

>>53401241
It's all appreciated. Thank you.

>>53401298
Healing powder is drugs anon. Literally every legionary uses it.

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Not fallout specific but I have some post apoc stuff

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>>53401301

>>53401229
I dunno, if we were to judge everyone according to their typos...

Honestly I take bigger issue with his reference to Cass. She's disillusioned, sure, but there are several ways to resolve her questline. Just like Hanlon's opinion of the conflict regarding his Rangers and his attempts to sabotage the war effort vary depending on what you do. He can be vindicated or proven wrong.

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>>53401298
>The Legion is like military boarding school
>The Legion does not hate it's own civilians

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>>53401317

>>53401162
>And the legion doesn't have that problem

Not really no, there is some.small tension between Vulpes and Lanius but that's it. Hopefully Lanius is the one who is elected after Caesar's details to be dictator because Big My and the Divide's mutants are going to be a massive challenge to the Mojave...

They have a far better chance than the NCR, who already have tons of carvans defecting from them into the legion because, unlike what you think, the legion treats civies under their Dominion well.

>>53399825
>Veronica is a dyke(literally, she says she's gay)
That's why the heart's crippled, ya dingus

>>53401257
I see Blaster but where is Master?

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>>53401319
>>53401317
yo, I've seen that character in art before, but never that picture.

>>53401331
Nope.
>>53401312
I mean addictive drugs like booze,.meth, heroin, etc. Some xander root and stimpacks are not hard drugs.

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>>53401335
I think it's well known by this point the Legion in NV were a clusterfuck brought on by having no time to add the depth intended to them, instead making them glorified raiders

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>>53401342

>>53401336
>there is some.small tension between Vulpes and Lanius but that's it.
Small tension? Both Vulpes and Caesar both hope Lanius doesn't get the job because they know he's unfit for it. He can lead a military, he cannot lead a government.

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>>53401342
>>53401358
oh well I have more of her but they get sillier

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>>53401363

>>53401322
If you played through the Van Graff questline you would find the NCR working with them as well to take out their enemies...

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>>53401367

>>53401322
>Tried to spell bureaucracy but just gave up because it was hard
>Tried to form a rounded political option but just chose a personality-cult militia because understanding actual governments is hard

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>>53401383
This is the last one of her I have and what I meant by silly

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>>53401374
>>53401397
beautiful. Thank you.

I think we can all agree that the best ending is Mojave ruled by Level 50 courier.

>>53401366
Like I said before, Lanius will probably be killed in the campaigns to cleanse the wasteland. I don't think you understand just how fucked wasteland is when you have Big My and the Divide creatures on top of who knows what lurking int he desert. You're not going to get rid of the Death Claw and raider problems without major losses either.

Also on the topic of child soldiers, there are none in the game there are just cadets. If the censorship of art and media wasn't so strict there would child raiders you'd have to kill, and child sex slaves as well. Most of the Legion were founded by former tribal who wanted to rebel against this kind of lifestyle with a kind of systematic purge of the wastes.

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>>53401418

>>53401375
The NCR isn't a single entity, it has several internal factions. Cass's questline can be completed by turning over the evidence of this corruption. Cass is less pleased with this outcome than justice by the gun, but she still accepts it.

>>53401424
Then who the fuck leads the legion? Vulpes would never get the respect or loyalty of a bunch of violence worshiping tribals. Figurehead driven empires rarely last, especially if they leave no clear heir or an obviously incompetent heir. This happens so often in history it's probably the easiest thing to predict.

>>53401424
Dude, it's Big Mt. Short for Big Mountain. Mt. stands for mountain. Savvy?

Lanius dying won't save the Legion either. They need a competent, charismatic leader. It's a cult of personality and unfortunately those can be fairly hard to come by, harder still to find one that fits the necessary ingredients to become the next Caesar.

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So, are there working cars and motorcycles in the Fallout wasteland? I've never been clear about this. Obviously they avoid talking about it in the new games because it's a gameplay issue, but was it a thing in the older games?

>>53401461
The only thing potentially worse than having no designated heir is having too many. Thank goodness Caesar didn't have kids (that we know of) because power sharing rarely works out well among siblings. At best they work out the problems between themselves, through assassins if necessary. If not then you could end up with the empire collapsing into several pieces, and worse several pieces now at war with each other.

Shame Caesar seems to have driven off his more competent potential heirs.

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>>53401397
>>53401424
>>53401461


My biggest problem with the Legion in NV is they were NOTHING LIKE THE ROMANS. It's like Caesar learned all his shit from pop history magazines and learning channel documentaries or internet shitposting.

1. The Romans were EXTREMELY religious from the time of their second king, the first ruler following Romulus himself (assuming Romulus was, of course, a real person, and not the gestalt of chieftains he almost certainly was). This had a profound effect on their culture, and absolutely nowhere is this shown as important to the Legion. At the very fucking least they should have worshipped Statism, or the concept of civilization.

2. Very important to the Roman identity was the idea they did not undertake wars of aggression, or unjust wars. In theory this meant they always had the moral high ground and surely the support of the Gods (see point 1), which has been considered very important since way back to Sun Tzu. Of course in practice this meant they looked for any political excuse to pick a fight, or to trick their enemies into picking a fight. Their presence in NV would have made far more sense if the outlying settlements and people there had pledged themselves to the Legion to get some protection, thus making the area Legion territory. At that point Caesar would 'have' to annex and cleanse NV to 'protect' his new citizens.

3. Though Rome enjoyed it's heights under dictators like Caesar (the historic one, not the vidya one), it got there from roots of a strong republic (really more of a jumped up oligarchy) that at least made pretensions to giving the populace a say. Caesar (the vidya) would have been better served by naming himself Romulus and establishing an oligarchical senate lead by him as dictator (as Augustus basically finagled)

overall though, Rome was too big, too complex, and too much a product of it's time to be recreated whole cloth in one mans lifetime. Caesar, being educated, SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THIS.

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>>53401422
I dunno, I kinda fucked it all up. I basically proved all the npc's points: everything I built wasn't going to last past my death, I had essentially united the tribes based on their dislike of the outside, not their common bonds, and I didn't really stabilize them either. The Legion's crippled, but the odds are good even my super robot army won't keep the Mojave independent forever. Best case scenario, the Mojave remains a semi-autonomous region that ultimately answers to the NCR and continues being essentially a buffer state against whatever comes after the Legion.

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Yup, you could repair a car in fallout 2. I would assume by the time of New Vegas, in the New California Republic, cars are a common sight (in comparison to the Mojave)

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>>53401502
>My biggest problem with the Legion in NV is they were NOTHING LIKE THE ROMANS. It's like Caesar learned all his shit from pop history magazines and learning channel documentaries or internet shitposting.

That's the point. or did I take the bait?

>>53401519
That's why you need the Big MT super technology. Get them to pimp the fuck out of your robots and make you immortal somehow.

>>53401443
Bro turning in that evidence is what would start the civil war. It's heavily implied that that same evidence would start some serious coup/civil war tier shit.

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>>53401489
>>53401520
oops, meant to link. Here, have another pic for my idiocy.

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I'm making a campaign set up in Nashville, I want there to be some sort of men in black group from the NCR that headed east to gather information and create some possible coups for when the NCR eventually makes their way there. In their minds the NCR is not just an army but an idea and so it would mainly bring about their rule by political means. Does that sound right? I don't want a huge military coming in but I figured that they could drum up some support and eventually head back to the west to offer any major aid.
I was also going to have a supermutant who roamed around and found the ruins of New Canaan and the Utah. cool or stupid? He was essentially going to be a Joshua Grahm character.

>>53401502
It helps, perhaps, to remember that Edward Sallow was trying to duplicate a system from the past but not necessarily duplicate everything. He wanted what worked from his point of view. He's making it up as he goes along, after all. He doesn't have the luxury of seeing this done naturally over generations so he forces it as best he can. Gods are a lot less helpful to him since there are just so many gods among the various tribes. Still he does make allowances for the Roman gods. Lanius' face mask is based on Mars. Lanius supposedly also sacrifices people to Mars, however the Romans hated human sacrifice.

>>53401544
Technically they already have the tech to make you ...sort of immortal. You'd end up replacing Mr. House and ruling from a tube.

Big MT does provide more options, though.

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>>53401520
I would say just make sure the cars are not pristine obviously. But obviously a junker that barely holds together. They should be common in a way that one town may have like 3 of them, but still valuable enough to be killed over.

>>53401461
>Vulpes would never get the respect if a bunch of tribals

*Former tribal. They aren't a bunch of illiterate savages even though the NCR and the rumors heard by their civilians think so.

>>53401474
>It's a cult of personality

We aren't given the plans of Caesar for his after conquest of Vegas plans, but he infers that he has one. He never talks much with the courier either, but there is no reason to doubt that beyond what limited scope of the legion we get there is a government. The government of the Legion is based off of the Roman dictatorship.plans of the Republic, so there are already magistrates in place to vote probably.

>>53401585
If you have them get their shit together than they at least might give you a better solution.

Hell, they can get you running without a brain, heart, or spine. That's probably enough for immortality right there.

>>53401502
1. Legion is very religious. Lanius and the legionaires say praise Jupiter before invading Hoover Dam

2. They said this in theory but they did not practice it to the degree you're thinking about. "Pre emptive" self defense is more like it, which the legion does already

3. They already do live under the republic, it's implied that the Legion works as did the old Roman Republic did under dictatorship, meaning it can transfer back to a republic at any time

>It's to much and too big

Not really

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>>53401502
SO YOU WANT TO CLEANSE THE WASTELAND?

1. Start as Caesar did. Unite savages and murder fuck everyone in your way. Establish a 'senate', each representative being the chief or sent official of an individual tribe. Meanwhile set about stamping out their individual culture and setting up one of YOUR design. This is why you need a state religion. I think Religious Statism is a good idea - worship the nation itself. Abhor the foreigner, the savage, the mutant. Welcome your fellow men as brothers once they bend the knee

2. Start doing as this >>53401298 delusional anon THINKS Caesar did (which he didn't). Establish a militaristic form of hierarchical education. Start hoarding, dissecting, and understanding technology so you can reindustrialize. This will put you in conflict with the Brotherhood of Steel. Wipe them out, they will never trade their cult of state for yours.

3. Let the wastelanders see the benefits of your rule. Annex tribes and locales when offered. Fringe elements who stand in your way can be crushed in 'defensive' wars.

>>53401529
I thought the whole point of Caesar was he was an actual educated man, one of the last. Not a memetard.

>>53401563
To be honest, the only "Man in Black" in nashville should be a wandering Johnny Cash expy, a guitar playing gunslinger whose hero to the people.

I can totally see a state sponsored private endeavor to 'spread the virtues of republicanism' to the wasteland and 'the good word' of the NCR... plus anything they can loot.

PC's can be like Pinkertons, private detectives who really amount to mercenaries. officially their goal is the benign spread of democracy and drumming up support for NCR. Unofficially, both the NCR and investors want resources, tech, and a return on their investment in them.

>>53401600
>They aren't a bunch of illiterate savages even though the NCR and the rumors heard by their civilians think so.

Have talked to some of the people in Caesars personal camp? Antony for example? The guy is a lunatic. Not to mention they're still gathering tribes as savage as the White Legs.

Though, frankly, the more intelligent people are gonna be the bigger issue. There isn't gonna be Augustus 2: Electric Boogaloo. Just Return of the Diadochi, and that's best case.

Tell me of your OC Vaults /tg/.

>>53401502
Literally he kinda did though, the game says he discovered some history texts, notably The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire and Caesar's Comentarii.

Basically it's some actual Roman history combined with Gibbon's memes about decadence and Christianity, and what Edward Sallow (Caesar) interpreted based on the state of the wasteland.

Caesar (Sallow) was educated, but he wasn't a historian. Beyond that statement about historical texts we don't know how much Roman history he's read, and we also don't know how much historiography he's done at all. The east interpretation is, he took Caesar's campaign in Gaul and went "I can civilise these people", and read Gibbon's account of Rome, and saw how he'd pull them out of the dirt. He made himself Caesar, he's clearly a bit of a megalomaniac.

>>53401641
>Not really
>one of the largest and longest lasting empires ever in the world
>not really

1 and 2 are fair points, but 4 is silly

As for 3, 'back' to republic implies there was a republic before hand. The Legion was built by Caesar. It has always been Caesars beast.

Historically, Rome made Caesar. But this Caesar is making Rome.

>>53401645
>I thought the whole point of Caesar was he was an actual educated man, one of the last. Not a memetard.

Educated is relative. He was a member of the Followers of the Apocalypse and had access to a decent amount of information, but even that is pretty patchy at best. Gannon comments on it. He got as much from history books as he did holotapes of gladiator movies.

>>53401555
I have absolutely no idea where you are getting the idea of a civil war engulfing the entire NCR just because you turn over the evidence. The reason it is an imperfect solution for Cass is that it will take years, there is no guarantee the evidence will cause any changes, and even if it does it will likely only weaken their power within the NCR and won't necessarily finish them. The NCR government will be able to tighten their grip on trade.

Seriously, why did you even get this in your head? You give the evidence to an NCR Ranger Jackson who isn't likely to want to kickstart a civil war. Honestly this is actually the best way to hurt the companies than just killing a figurehead since they can both die anyway if you are sent to steal the Gun Runner plans. The Gun Runners ambush them and put them both down. Big deal.

>>53401645
>Re industrialized

Oh yeah because that won't lead to another nuclear war and the legion isnt a reference to "By the Waters of Babylon" a short story by Stephen Vincent Benet which actually critizes the a proportion assumption that pursuing technology Big MT style is self destruct and that after an apocalyptic struggle mankind must learn how to control it's progress.

Which is exactly what the Legion wants.

[ ] Not BTFO
[ X ] Absolutely REKT

>>53401489

They were featured pretty heavily in Tactics, present in 2, and 3 tried for all of one day before deciding it was too hard to program with Gamebryo's limitations only to be one-upped years later by modders.

In other words, yes.

>>53401645
There's plenty of educated people on the West Coast, Sallow definitely isn't one of the last. The NCR and the Followers both educate in a manner which seems to sometimes run straight through to university. Sure, it's not as extensively implemented as non-wasteland education, but you could probably readily compare it to 19th century levels.

Sallow was educated by the followers, and stumbled on some Roman history in his own time while high off hating tribals.

>>53401663
Caesar says that the Legion is based off of Roman governance, and Roman governance where one person can have dictator powers and where the government can go back to being. Republic implies their are already magistrates founded by Caesar in Colorado. Meaning the Legion does have a way for naming a successor to Caesar or going back to republic.

>>53401648
Ever talk to Boone? Guy is pretty nuts too

>>53401687
> A proportion

*a priori

Tfw mobilefag

>>53401645
That's a good idea, with the Johnny cash guy.

I like the idea of pinkertons, that way if they don't get anything done or send any real word back they get a few rangers sent after them. Not to railroad them since it's such an open ended thing but as a sort of soft motivation.

>>53401728
Boone lost his wife and kid and was not the most stable guy to begin with. Tribals are just raised that way.

It's not really comparable.

>>53401555
There are three endings that involve the Van Graffs and the Crimson Caravan. The ONLY one that results trouble for the NCR is killing them, NOT turning over the Evidence:

>The slaughter of the Van Graffs and the Crimson Caravan caused no end of trouble for NCR back West. Already struggling, NCR's supply lines suffered further as the two caravans withdrew support until the "massacre in the East" was resolved.

This is the ending for exposing them:

>In the years following the destruction of Cassidy Caravans, NCR used evidence of the plot to blackmail the Crimson Caravan and the Van Graffs. NCR enacted strict trade laws with little resistance, strengthening their supply lines and their position in the Mojave.

This is the ending if you turn in evidence and steal from the Gun Runners (regardless of whether you were caught):

>Both the Van Graffs and Alice McLafferty were removed from their post in the East. During their trek West, however, their caravan was wiped out by raiders using advanced weaponry and military tactics. No cargo was taken. When questioned, the Gun Runners denied any involvement, claiming they would have no... public motivation for such an attack.

That last one is the sweetest for the sense of irony. I think Cass would drink to that. You will note that there were no civil wars.

>>53401762
Tribal are implies to have been child soldiers who watch their families get kidnapped or murdered, or fall into extreme drug habits.

>>53401764
>There are no civil wars

Because the president isn't dead in any of those scenarios, and enacting strict laws in a corrupt society don't work for long or at all. "Little" resistance. Suuuuuure.

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>>53401827
Yeah, that's my point. For tribals it's endemic. For the NCR, Boone is the exception. For the most part at least.

>I don't agree with the literal word of god

Nigga you need to chill.

>>53401418
>project Brazil finished never ever

>>53401852
>Former tribals who were forced into war and are now a part of a systematic purge of that kind of behavior by genociding raiders mercilessly
>A bad thing

Hmm...

>Muh jebus

Fuck God, praise Jupiter.

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>>53400825
>this is what legion fags actually believe

>>53401887
>>Former tribals who were forced into war and are now a part of a systematic purge of that kind of behavior by genociding raiders mercilessly
>>A bad thing

It's setting the wasteland up for greater strife long term because the Legion is gonna implode, Mongol or Alexander style. Probably not even that well, more like China following the fall of the Qing with the crazy warlords and everything. You're basically just burning New Vegas by siding with the legion.

Unless, of course, you like to think that your character has Lanius removed and becomes Caesars true successor. Then I can see it working, but mostly because the Courier is a god.

>>53401887
I think "word of God" means the devs themselves said it will happen

>>53401597
Wow that is fucking garbage tier.

>tank treads and roller in pic
>faggot drawing is just 8 faggotshit wheels
that artist should kill himself

>>53401827
>Because the president isn't dead in any of those scenarios, and enacting strict laws in a corrupt society don't work for long or at all. "Little" resistance. Suuuuuure.
The president being dead is a separate matter. I mean the NCR has presidents, presidents get replaced all the time. At most it fucks with the NCR wanting to continue operations in the Mojave, which is implied to already be unpopular back home. House points out that his reason for wanting Kimball to survive is because he wants the man as a scapegoat for the NCR losing the Mojave. In death he becomes a martyr. Neither scenario has him believe that the NCR will tear itself apart due to civil war.

>>53397977
A, but only slaves and then only for the ugly or crippled, since I could probably get more out of an orphan or a healthy slave selling elsewhere as stock then I could selling to someone using it as a food supply and who will only pay me pound for pound with a bonus for light tender meat.

When it benefits me to get in another groups good favor when I don't need the Cannibals anymore or if they piss me off, D. Up until that occurs, try to strike up a side deal with the cannibals to agree on some sort of indication of who my companions or associates are. Don't eat anyone walking through their territory wearing a bright pink hat or some shit.

>>53401936
>It's setting the wasteland up for greater strife long term because the Legion is gonna implode, Mongol or Alexander style. Probably not even that well, more like China following the fall of the Qing with the crazy warlords and everything. You're basically just burning New Vegas by siding with the legion.

How when there is no evidence of this at all and already have a system set up to elect a new leader? Lanius would be fine as a successor btw, the tribals are not tribals anymore, most tribals are not chem raiders. Some of them are just killed if they are too far gone and their children are raised to be civilized.

>>53401957
Both House and Caesar give you info saying that the NCR will fall into turmoil because its democratic process has become extremely volatile and mostly just worships Kimball as a cult of personality similar to Caesar. We are given info that the NCR is becoming less popular at home and in the Mojave if you talk to random wastelanders and caravans, and the Legion has far more fanatic fanatic and devoted soldiers/citizens because they have banded together to purge the wastes of raiders and mutated creatures. The NCR is basically just what formed out of Shady Sands, they don't have much if s core message besides bringing stability to the South West.

>>53402034
You are woefully misinformed. The NCR did arise from Shady Sands and Tansy was President but they include far more territory including Redding, Vault City, and beyond. Many of these function as individual states within the NCR. Chief Hanlon, for instance, can become the Senator for Redding in one of his endings.

Many players talk shit about the NCR, including Hanlon, but I have certainly never seen Kimball described as head of a cult of personality, certainly not by Caesar or House. Kimball is a war hero, sure, but he's kept the fighting in Nevada for years now and it's said to be incredibly unpopular back home how much money and lives they are wasting over what appears to them increasingly as a failed venture.

Hell, House's reasoning, again, for keeping Kimball alive is he thinks the NCR will be in a WEAKER position to threaten New Vegas than if Kimball dies as a martyr. He most certainly doesn't think a dead Kimball will make the NCR destroy itself.

>>53402091
>Tansy
Tandi, mate.

>>53402034
Kimball is small time, anon. The biggest blow the NCR suffered was when the Brotherhood blew up their gold reserve fucking up their currency. This is what seriously fucked things up back in NCR territory and what is making their Mojave presence both harder to support and harder to justify to their population.

>>53402091
"The Shady Sands general area"

If that triggers you less.

>I never saw it so it didn't happen

Schrodinger is that you? Just go replay the game if you want, both House and Casear think the death of Kimbal will lead to fracturing. The problem is that the fracturing will cause militarization over who kills him. The reason NCR is, with Kimbal alive, weaker according to House is because he knows they are fractures and he down want it kill him over worries that it may unite them. Caesar is more cynical and just has Kimbal killed because he doubts NCR will unite for anything even their cult of personality figure head.

>>53402222
The NCR territory is actually quite a distance. They also have operations in Oregon, Nevada, and Mexico.

>take my word for it, i pinky swear i'm right
There's no cause for getting upset that someone wouldn't just take your word for it.

>>53402260
I mean, he's right. Both of them do say that.

Though, their being unbiased sources is not without some criticism. Megalomaniacal leaders tend to view all their enemies as somehow inferior and will create stilting to justify it in their own minds and to others. Whether that is the case of if the NCR really is fucked is left up to the player to interpret.

>>53402222
House's reason is because with Kimball being blamed the population will turn on the idea of having more to do with the Mojave. If he becomes a martyr he becomes a rallying symbol for them to redouble their efforts in his name/memory. It's basic psychology. House does enjoy his long games.

Caesar takes a different view than House. He thinks killing Kimball will show the futility of fighting a war so far from home and with support dwindling his job becomes incredibly easy.

>>53402164
Sauce? I thought the reason the NCR currency was so inflated was because they were in a recession I didn't know the BoS bombed their gold reserves

Also, Libertarians Btfo

>>53402260
They did not originate in Baja or Oregon, or Nevada, they were created for the original areas in Fallout 1 + 2 , their capital being Shady Sands as that was where they originated

>>53402286
Their views aren't quite compatible, for what that is worth. They have different beliefs in what the outcome of killing Kimball will be, and it's a bit hard to reconcile them (albeit not impossible).

Honestly a lot of the characters are like that. We're given views but the game doesn't necessarily mean they will be facts. Halon is perhaps the best example of this as whether he is arguably right or not changes dramatically based on the player's actions. Veronica is another one I personally find iffy regarding her views of the Brotherhood. I don't dismiss that the BoS has problems but she's so goddamn gloomy about their prospects.

I'm becoming increasingly convinced that Legionfags never even play the fucking game.

>>53402341
Well now that you're caught up on the discussion you can join us.

>>53402300
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/New_California_Republic#Currency

I can't recall where the info comes from but with their gold reserves destroyed this is why they switched to water as the backing of their economy.

>>53402295
Yes I basically said the same thing, House and Caesar both operate under the analysis that the NCR has been weakened through internal strife , they just have different strategies as to what to do with this being a given. House says let Kimball die on his own , the NCR is a thing of the past, and Caesar says just kill him because they are already to fractured to care who kills their president.

>>53402373
Bit more details here:
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/NCR-Brotherhood_War

>>53402358
I've been saying that the whole time >_> though

>>53402346
Probably because you're biased cunt who can't think for himself

>>53402386
Internal disagreements and even strife is one thing. Differences of opinion is one of the staples of democracy, frankly. The contention was that killing Kimball + sending in evidence against the Van Graffs and Crimson Caravan = all out civil war. Also someone saying that the NCR is a cult of personality that cannot survive Kimball's death. He's their fifth president and hasn't even been in office more than ten years. At least he's lasted longer than Aradesh but Tandi was their leader for over fifty years.

Doesn't really feel like the NCR has had enough time to base it's entire future around Kimball, certainly not the same way the Legion did for Caesar but then he's been their only supreme leader and the architect of their entire government.

>>53402452
*xirself

Because I question whether or not you have a malformed dick given your opinions

>>53402400
And yet nobody said they originated in any of those places, merely that they currently have far greater territory beyond Shady Sands.

This should have been obvious, though.

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>>53399614
>>53399645
>>53399671
Prison cells?

>>53402452
>Intentionally misconstrue and make up details that are literally never mentioned in the games, documents, Fallout bible, or even fucking dev twitter
>Use those made up details to structure your vision of a utopia where you would totally survive and not get beaten and raped to death by psychotic raiders coming down off of chems they aren't allowed anymore

The legion argument, everyone

Probably the biggest issue with the NCR is that they can't even manage to maintain functioning power armor they've captured from the Brotherhood. All the armor they field is non-powered crap. They can manage to keep vertibirds flying but even despite their progress their industry and scientific minds can't keep the armors working.

Meanwhile in the Commonwealth even raiders can figure this shit out. But then this is one reason some people loathe Fallout 4.

>>53402460
That's the problem, NCR was founded by a cult of personality via Tandi and has never left her shadow and ways search for that same leader in their new presidents. This is a very flimsy form of democracy imo, one which will often lead to strife. Plus on a more meta level, the NCR is, if is successful despite this fact, going to repeat the mistakes of the the Old World Commonwealth government and lead to more brutal warfare. Legion opposes this kind of technological exlansionism which gives it the moral high ground

>>53402517
>>Intentionally misconstrue and make up details that are literally never mentioned in the games, documents, Fallout bible, or even fucking dev twitter

Literally where you biased cunt, all of this is based on in game info and the wiki. An hero immediately. When Caesar claims to have based his society after the Romans and I core how the Roman government worked, then it's not fallacious to say that the Legion have a system of reverting to a Republic because under the Roman Dictatorship, pre empire, there were still magistrates who could elect a successor when the term of the dictator was up.

>>53402548
>NCR was founded by a cult of personality via Tandi
Aradesh was their founder and first leader. Tandi still remains the most popular president but at 103 when she died I'd be surprised how much she was running daily operations.

Tandi isn't the problem. The MOJAVE is the problem. Joanna Tibbett, Tandi's VP, was elected after Tandi died. She was voted out after 5 years because some NCR civilians were killed by Mojave raiders. Wendell Peterson was president for 20 years and was responsible for a massive military buildup in the Mojave region. He was replaced by Kimball who was considered a war hero due to his campaigns to pacify raiders in the Mojave and continue NCR expansion.

Face it, the Mojave was a mistake.

>>53402583
>It's not fallacious to say that the Legion is totally valid if you just pretend they have a bunch of stuff that never shows up anywhere in the lore

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>>53401502
>>53401114
>>53401918
>>53402517
>>53402346
>>53401936
It's because the entire thing is contrived and fiction, not to mention the fact that they didn't get all the development time they needed. The purpose of Caesar's Legion is to provide a scapegoat of ebul muhsoggykneestic slavers to bring "strife" to the Mojave for the purpose of the plot, it's essentially pic related, where in the next panel they have to throw in stupid shit like everyone suddenly becoming a suicide bomber for him just to make sure everyone knows he's supposed to be the bad guy. It's the definition of capeshit and the dedicated anti-legion posters like all of you just eat that shit up.
>>53401180
The NCR and the Legion both have that Achilles heel, they're both held together by a single charismatic leader.
>>53401114
>what the fuck, someone disagrees with me? He must be a fucking AMERICAN!!!!
>>53400960
>What is Chile and who was Pinochet

>>53402635
>Doesn't show up in the Lore

We're aren't given much if anything referring to Colorado or the Legion in general beyond minor tid bits. I assume that when Caesar says "based on the Roman government" he means "based on the the Roman government" though.

>>53402695
>The NCR and the Legion both have that Achilles heel, they're both held together by a single charismatic leader.
I'm still not seeing this personally. The NCR has had to replace unpopular leaders before, even leaders who have died, and it has survived. It has basically been tested multiple times as to whether it can survive the loss of a leader. The Legion...has not, and sadly Caesar doesn't have anyone who looks fit to replace him. The one who ends up doing just that when Caesar dies turns out to be the worst choice for the job. But at least under Lanius the Legion will burn itself out in a wave of violence and make a lot of people suffer and die before it does.

>>53402729
He meant THE the Roman government? Truly Caesar is crafty.

>>53402634
>Kimbal is consider a war hero

Yes, all that instability combined with war hero Kimbal has created a cult of personality mentality. I mean when both House and Caesar say that this instability has caused fractures it's objectively true.

>Mojave was a mistake .

Probably. Then again, letting the Legion get Hoover Dam without any resistance would be a mistake.

>>53402790
>objectively true.

Objectively a misuse of the word objectively.

>>53402695
>>What is Chile and who was Pinochet
My home, where we are at all times about 15min away from a coup whenever someone is too blunt to a high ranking soldier.

>>53402788
>Hints at needing a successor
>Bases his government of the Romans
>Is well educated enough to know who Hegel is
>Isn't well educated enough to base the line of succession to create a more peace time effort as he tells the Courier when he says he wouldn't want Lanius to succeed him (hinting at a republic because that would be the peace time where the term of a Dictator in the Roman Republic would be up and the republic has state authority again) to implement the same system that worked well for the Romans.

You'd better be pretending to be retarded

>>53402826
>in a way that is not influenced by personal feelings or opinions.

In other words a hard fact. It's a fact that the NCR is divided because of the mojave campaign and corruption.

>>53402831
>where we are
>are

You mean were? Pinochet left office in the 80's and died, son.

>>53402790
>I mean when both House and Caesar say that this instability has caused fractures it's objectively true.
Again, their reasons for why his death will negatively affect the NCR are different. Caesar thinks it will help drive them out of the Mojave, House worries that it will send them back in.

I don't think anyone is saying assassination is going to be a smooth thing with zero problems for their government but whether it will destroy them, well, no, probably not. I tend to side with House's view since he's been playing this as a very long game and honestly the house HAS been winning for most of that conflict. That's why the Mojave has been a trial for the NCR. House has been rigging the game as only Vegas knows how and he's been working to bleed them of resources and lives. Kimball is not only obsessed with the Mojave but has based his entire political future on the outcome. Chief Hanlon was instrumental in the first victory at the dam but is so disgusted by Kimball's actions he's been actively sabotaging the war effort. He's certainly not the only person to express a negative view of Kimball.

>>53402847
>You'd better be pretending to be retarded
If he isn't he can certainly learn a thing from you.

>>53401298
Ranger Andy almost got his leg blown off by a child sucide bomber. It's literally stated by ceaser himself and his top commander that the legion is a militaristic band of warriors that need an advisory.

>>53402847
That's all well and good up until you clearly aren't aware that Lanius does end up succeeding Caesar despite Vulpes and Caesar knowing he'd be terrible at the job.

It's also where this discussion began over an hour ago.

>>53402923
>Someone says they are basing the line of succession of dictator after the Roman 's.
>But not "Someone says they are basing the line of succession of dictator after the Roman 's." They didn't say that. That's not canon.

You are a special kind of retard aren't you?

>>53402960
>>53402987
see
>>53402346

>>53402896
I meant what I said.
Yes, he died. But not all of his supporters.
Last serious threat I can remember was a few years ago, when an old general in "prison" literally said it on public tv.

Right now we hold by waiting all the old geezers out (And surprise, important documents tend to reappear then!) and "xenophobia".
Not real xenophobia, but Bolivia just can't stop pushing our buttons.

>>53402987
I'm just saying that the legion has a line of succession of dictator based on the Romans. When Caesar says he would rather not have Lanius succeed him and hints at peace time it probably means he has a system in place to revert his government to a republic. But the magistrates, who have only existed under a dictatorship and are still in an expansionistic period, probably would.

We literally started the conversation over this ffs

>>53403003
Where exactly are you getting your panties in a twist? Is it the "the the" thing? Because that's clearly a joke based on the post here >>53402729

Check it out:
>based on the Roman government
but claims Caesar meant
>based on the the Roman government

The extra "the" added is surely a mistake.

>>53403036
You are Avery special kind of retard aren't you. Tell me, what do you think Caesar meant by "basing the legion off of the Roman government"

Please enlighten me.

>>53403078
>If I keep saying I'm right and provide no new evidence, I win!

>>53401585
Nah, immortality breaks sooner or later. Mr. House survived for so long only because of mystery he surrounded himself with. After his death someone taking his place in the same way will not last so long.

If courier tries to take the place of Mr. House he'll need to transform Mojave into some sort of buffer state that both Legion and NCR want to keep so that their opponents won't take it. It should actually be possible considering that Mojave has electricity and securitron army at the end of the game.

Create a personal army, provide incentives for towns to join Vegas in some sort of military republic or whatever and start leaching both Legion and NCR for insurance that you won't help their enemies.

By the time they both recover after Hoover Dam you should have a pretty strong position.

>>53402960
>Caesar says he employs child soldiers

Sauce

>The kid that injured Ranger Andy was a suicide bomber

No, the kid dropped a grenade on him and the kid wasn't a legion kid.

>>53403064
If Caesar truly had this brilliant plan to stop Lanius from succeeding him he probably should have put it in place, you know, when he was struggling with this tumor thing and his outlook for survival was pretty damn grim. He clearly had no greater scheme in place, nor did any of his subordinates. Even if they did it isn't clear that if Lanius was passed over Lanius would have accepted it, and as commander of the legions of the Legion, well, he does have a pretty good argument.

>We literally started the conversation over this ffs
Yes, it was started over Lanius' succession. That's why I said as much.

>>53403069
There is no "the the" in that post you cited.

>>53403098
>After his death someone taking his place in the same way will not last so long.
It's not the mystery, I think, that is the point. It is the ability to remain alive past biological limits while still commanding the Securitron army that is the key here. Because the army will need someone to direct it after you die, unless you never die. Then you can impose your vision over the Mojave forever, or to the next best thing.

>>53403091
>No new evidence

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_dictator

Did the Roman government just not work in the way you think it worked? Seriously? Give me your thoughts on what Caesar meant by "basing the government off of the Romans"

That's all I'm asking.

>>53403131
So you're blind as well as retarded? God that sucks for you!

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>>53403131
Here you go, anon. Hope this helps.

>>53403114
He didn't say he was going to stop Lanius is, just that he would rather he not.

>He had no plan

Wut I already told you he had a plan, and yes his tumor problems occurred because the tech he had to heal himself broke down which had to be fixed by the Courier. His plans were to conquer the mojave and take care of the raiders and tribals to usher in a new era of civilization where people could learn about the mistakes of the Old World.

He tells you that much in game.

>>53403154
Linking how romans worked isn't going to make the Legion into rome, anon

>>53403155
>On mobile

Well I missed a word but at least I know how basic syntax works and actually cite evidence while you give sarcastic greentexts and smarmy remarks.

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>>53402831
>>53403046
A place where you have a computer because the free market and Uncle Sam pulled you from the vile clutches of communism so hard that they called it the Miracle of Chile and don't you forget it. You'd get sent to the gulag for insulting the politburo in the society you seem to want so much.
>>53397421
Have them kill some communists.

>>53403210
Tell me what Caesar means by "basing his government off the Romans" if he isn't "basing his government off the Romans".

Anon. It's time to stop.

>>53403103
I didn't claim ceaser said that. And yes Andy said that sometimes the legion would use kids in booby traps.

>>53403202
And yet his plan fails, anon. That's the point. The fact that he's an old man is bad enough, the tumor just makes it imperative he come up with something better than leaving it after they achieve victory in the Mojave because, guess what, when he dies before that victory Lanius takes over.

Others have a much more dire view on the Legion where win or lose the dam will still break them as they need an external threat to maintain focus and drive. The Legion fights and expands, it won't sit quiet and learn a better way whatever Caesar hopes.

>>53403221
Jesus, anon, someone made a joke, you didn't recognize it as such and then start declaring people retarded when you are the one who fucked up twice, first in making a simple mistake (no big deal) but worse for freaking out over it. Now you're trying to take the high ground? Good luck with that, champ. Just be glad you aren't a namefag, you'd give Boco a run for his money.

>>53403239
>I didn't claim Caesar said that

>Ranger Andy almost got his leg blown off by a child sucide bomber

Followed by

> It's literally stated by ceaser himself and his top commander that the legion is a militaristic band of warriors that need an advisory.

Yeah... You pretty much did.

And gonna need a sauce on Caesar saying that he used kids as weapons.

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This thread has been derailed all to hell

I had an idea for a character if my group ever played a game set in fallout. Basically a slightly insane, pre war catholic priest (either ghoul or supermutant) that's really annoyed that he hasn't died and gone to heaven yet.

>>53403243
>His plan fails.

He didn't plan anything he just told the Courier that he has some concerns about Lanius who is still young and ambitious , that he might be too expansionistic. Which makes no sense considering EVERYONE is already expansionistic.

Caesar hinted at wanting a peace time and if he also said he was basing his government on the Romans then it's pretty damn likely he had the dictatorship government set up like the Romans did in case his people wanted to be less expansionistic.

>>53403273
Those were jokes as well, it's 4chan, toxic banter is a pastime here. Fuck outta here if you don't like it.

>>53401519
>Open up the boomers to outside trade and even marriage
>Strengthen the Kings hold over freeside
>Return law and order to prim and save good springs
>Move the Kahn's out of the Mojave
>Destroy the fiends
>Take down the strip families bad actors
>Restore trade with new Canaan
>Empower the followers of the Apocalypse
>Make the brotherhood stop being dicks
>Eliminate deathclaw matriarch
>Then infuse it all with crazy big mt tech
If the courier can't build stability from that, then the Mojave will just never be stable

>>53403315
I think they had something like this in Fallout 4

What is it about Fallout 4 that's so boring?
Played couple hundred hours in Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, and Fallout 3.
I try to play F4 and got too bored after my first playthrough. Doesn't help that some Legendary weapons are so overpowered they trivialize the game even on the hardest difficulties.

>>53403332
You should direct your argument to >>53403202

It's best to say he has concerns but fails to properly accommodate for them even despite his failing health. His concerns (and the concerns of Vulpes) are well founded. Just compare the endings when Caesar lives versus the one where he dies.

>>53403456
That's a false comparioks, come on stop being cheeky. When I said plan original I was using it synonymously with "purpose" of the Legion. You were saying that Caesar and the legion had no plan for the future, which they do Caesar says he wants to stop chem use and raiders from existing to usher in a possible peace time. In the context of "plan" in the above reference I was talking about a plan to keep Lanius out. Caesar had no intentions of keeping Lanius from being the next dictator of the Legion, but since his will was to not have Lanius Succeed him, yet he know Lanius will, it's almost like their is an elective body that Caesar has created himself which he has no control over that he created for the propose of naming a successor and for governing the lands of the Legion. When he also hints at "wishing for peace" do not assume "wish" means "command".

It's very obvious that when Caesar says " he is basing the style of government of the legion off the Romans" that he has the form of their dictatorship in mind.

>>53399740
I bet that cooze smells of sulfur and burnt hair.

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>>53400825
The Legion ins't an empire. It's a sprawling hore of illiterate slaving, raping raiders rallied to the banner of a delusional madman. They're a pack of subhumans and scum unworthy of existence and fit only for extermination at the hands of their betters.

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>>53403614

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>>53403658
He's not wrong.

>>53403732
Nah he's pretty wrong

>>53403450
You said it yourself, being overpowered. They give you the power armor in the second mission for Christ's sake!

>>53401687
Oh look, a retarded bos apologist

Abloo bloo bloo, all tech automatically leads to nuclear war abloo

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I had some ideas about a post-apocalyptic Michigan ruled by viking style raider kingdoms that go to shit when someone kills someone important. with stuff like a tribe made up of the descendants of chinese infiltrators and communist fifth pillars.

>Guys don't worry Caesar definitely has a plan to keep Lanius away from the leadership of the Legion
>I mean okay Lanius became leader of the Legion but there was a plan guys I'm telling you

>>53403427
was this a dlc character? cause I haven't played any of the dlc

>>53404004
No, it's just.one of those random little places. A derelict church with a crazed shotgun wielding ghoul priest. He attacks you on sight, is named father something or other

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>>53403223
>Have them kill some communists.

Sort of already have it planned. The group will encounter a pre-war military bunker that was sabotaged by Chinese spies before the bombs dropped. Here's the catch though; only half of the robots are commie robots. The Chinese only had time to hack half of them (by changing IsCommunist = 0 to 1 in their .ini files, yes that's the lore reason) before the bombs dropped, and now the bunker is a constant battle ground for centuries old robots. Thing is, they're not very good at their job, and might just unlock the armory for the lucky wastelander that helps to eliminate the other side...

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>>53404581
That's fantastic, anon.

>>53404845
Do you not think it possible a KGB propoganda minister might purposefully discredit American leftists in order to weaken them for their own goals? You can't really take that quote at face value
>>53404581
>Set communist to 1
That is perfect and totally fitting

It was probably originally added into the code as proof their robots could never become communist too

Or so the company could sell to both sides

I bet in China there was a comrade handy

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>>53404923
The KGB funded and backed the filthy hippies from which leftists are spawned. Tell me now why the KGB would have any reason to discredit the same- again, useful idiots- who promote their communist/socialist policies.
They're also well known for their attempts and surely some successes of infiltrating and supporting "peace" movements, so that their opposition remains unarmed.
http://www.nytimes.com/1983/07/26/world/kgb-officers-try-to-infiltrate-antiwar-groups.html?pagewanted=all
Also their reputation for heavy handed attempts at espionage and infiltration on American soil
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_espionage_in_the_United_States

>>53401649
well, I had this idea for a Vault-tec cruise ship that was out at sea when the bombs fell.
I figure the ship would have all the food and water capabilities of a vault as the cruise was designed to show off what one could expect in a vault.
The story point for the ship would be that it hasn't returned to shore since the war, but will have to soon to get parts to make repairs.
I also think that maybe some of the engineering staff might be ghouls because of a broken reactor contained to the lower levels or something.

>>53402872
the interpretations of cosplayer and withered corpse in a tube do not make a fact, they make two interpretations of a situation.

>>53405071
>Tell me now why the KGB would have any reason to discredit the same- again, useful idiots- who promote their communist/socialist policies.

Tell me why the KGB would have any reason to tell us about it on the record in a directly attributable quote.

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>>53405508
Because he was a KGB defector as of 1970, hence the "former" bit of his title, pretty obvious when you actually take a second to think about it.

>>53405071
>Tell me now why the KGB would have any reason to discredit the same- again, useful idiots- who promote their communist/socialist policies.

Why would CIA leak their own secret documents while trying to prosecute the leaker?

>>53405071
You're the kind of person who thinks the Civil Rights Movement was a Soviet Plot. You're also dumb enough to take as the word of God the words of a defector who has every personal and political interest to deflate the left for the benefit of the government he defected to, and yet at the same time ignore that he said that the leftists who become disillusioned become the worst enemies of Soviet Russia--because you still want to maintain that all leftists are just Soviet sleeper cells in waiting or something.

But let's take Bezmenov's word for it.
>Instead, Bezmenov was encouraged to recruit the persons in large circulation, established conservative media, rich filmmakers, intellectuals in academic circles, and cynical, ego-centric people who lacked moral principles.

In other words, Brezemov says that the KGB found the rich, powerful, and conservative more useful propaganda tools than the leftists you want to tar.

Besides, saying even that leftists at the time were all pro-Soviet is stupid, considering the long tradition of left communism that was in defiance from the start of the Bolshevik state takeover and that the anti-Soviet left was the first to sound the clarion call against Soviet militarism e.g. Hungary '56. You just dislike that they did the same for all militarism in the same period, including American militarism.

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>>53406848
I don't save pictures as often as I should, so I've run out of relevant ones
Sure, it's not an argument, but you're not entitled to one, you dirty commie pinko.

>>53399740
He looks like Solid Snake

>>53406888
>so blown out he's reduced to smug anime girls

>>53402695
The reason there's slavery and suicide bombing in the Legion is because it's the embodiment of every SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST post-apocalyptic wank fantasy. The only people who argue the Legions corner and those who revel in the idea of a might makes right society with a side order of some higher cause to make every atrocity good and necessary, actually.

>>53406848
>why would you take his word for it
>now let me take his word for it to argue against you

I don't think he's saying ALL lefties were Soviet agents/stooges, but they did serve the Soviet goals and thus Soviets had a reason to and did back them. Just like US today has a reason to back states and movements that are beneficial to them. And I think what Bezmenov is saying is that Soviets only used ideological lefties as pawns.

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>>53406944
You're missing the point. The legion is the way it is because it was made that way. We're essentially talking about a slightly less ridiculous version of "I AM SILLY". I'm not even a legion supporter, I'd give the Boomers the Mojave if I could.

>>53406936
It's 7AM and I haven't slept, I ain't reading all that shit.

>>53402506
They're actually several different housing types. The ones that look like houses that are half-filled-in are actually just that. Its an experimental low-income housing model which allows the residents to customize and expand their housing to fit their needs, and produce a less uniform neighborhood as a result, and increase individual investment in the community.

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>>53406888
I'll help you out, since obviously you're too heroin-addled and lust-filled while masturbating in your white bedsheets to even put together a coherent thought.

>>53406977
I did it to point out how dumb it is that he only listened to one half of what Bezmenov said. If one wants to take any of it at face value, one should take it all at face value or give a good reason why cherry picking is justifiable.

>>53406994
>WUN AN NAINTEEN MOAR

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>>53406848
>"You're the kind of person who thinks the Civil Rights Movement was a Soviet Plot"

To be fair, one must acknowledge that there was at least SOME communist involvement in the civil rights movements in both America and other places (South Africa, Rhodesia) in the mid 20th century. Many influential voices in the black civil rights movement in America were at least partially related to some communist organization, or were part of a communist organization during their time as an activist. For instance, Stanley Levison, A close associate of Martin Luther King, was part of the United States Communist Party and helped to defend two jews who leaked important nuclear secrets to the soviets in the 1940s (The Rosenberg couple). Another famous example is Richard Wright, a prominent civil rights author from the 1940s and 1950s that wrote the early civil rights book, Native Son. One could also go into the relationship between communist and civil rights activists in South Africa, although I think the point made so far is clear.

To say that the entire thing was purely a plot of the soviets is not a sound idea. But at the same time, to lambast those who are wary of communist influence in these 20th century movements as overly paranoid when things like pic related were common is more than a bit strange

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I wonder if there are any established metro societies in Fallout like there are in the metro series. I'm surprised nobody has made any kind of extensive mods for that kind of thing.

>>53407336
And CPUSA funded the legal defense of the Scottsboro boys and CORE was pivotal for decades. When a left social movement is contemporaneous with the influence of the Soviet Union, yeah, things are gonna get tangled. Still a massive leap if one, though I'll be fair and say that the poster himself has not outright said it (though what else could Bezmenov be referring to), then makes the jump to say it's all a Soviet Plot to destabilize the country.

>>53407019
It also greatly decrease construction cost and is still pretty much uniform, further decreasing costs (since you install the same type of shit in each unit connected to the same main installation).
Which is also why I find Aravena's projects so fitting into big (re)construction projects by NCR - cheap, reliable, uniform, much better than average shanties AND easily to turn into fortified settlements (since most of them are ring-shaped anyway) or repurpoused into barracks or other facilities. Given NCR position and the lore behind what they have in California by New Vegas and Van Buren, that's just perfect.
Hell, all things considered, you can treat those housing blocks (in the initial period) as luxury housing, since, duh, it's a normal, if small, house, with all the conviniences inside.

>>53401489
Yes. Even in Good Springs you saw motorcycles outside the bar which looked rad as hell but then you couldn't interact with them

>>53407669
>>53401489
I'm betting the biggest issue is finding suitable coolant to keep them running. I mean, Red Rockets would provide some, but It all would depend on if you could get it out of the tanks and into vehicles.

>Faction Concept

High Functioning vampire ghouls. They drink the blood of irradiated people in order to absorb the radiation. Their victims become feral ghouls under their control. Cultists like Atom worship them.

>>53401489
Lore-wise, NCR by FO2 has very limited access to trucks (military-issue only) and Vault City has few stored in parts, but with no resources to use them, thus no need to assemble them too.
By 2250s (so a decade or so after the fall of Enclave) NCR also experiments with restoration of limited railway, but those experiments and tests are mostly disrupted by intense fight with BoS. However, by ealy 2060s, NCR has a reliable rail connection between main settlements within the republic. Do I need to stress out how fuck-huge importance this has for pretty much everything to even connect two places by rail when everyone else is still forced to marching?
By times of New Vegas, cars in NCR are a luxury good, but there is enough of them to actually give civilians access to them, rather than make them military-issue only.

In other words - by NV, California is pretty much restored into a conditions of normal, fully-functional country. It has its issues, but think about it as if it was the final stage of "Wild West" setting rather than screvenger world typical for post-apo setting: there are large scale farms, factories, working infrastructure, fully functional education and health system and as far as anyone is concerned, things are going just about fine.
And compared with rest of the world - it's a fucking paradise.

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You know what was fucking awesome about FO3?

The concept art. Really wish the game looked anything like it.

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>>53408289

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>>53408303

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>>53408325

>>53397421
Southern California is prtty much NCR territory
Unless you mean SOUTHERN Southern California, then that's fair game

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>>53408340

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btw anyone ever heard of vault 120?

>>53408340
>That enormous fucking molerat.
That would be fucking terrifying to encounter, much less keep as a mount.

>>53399165
>All he want is to solve the rubiks cube he's had since he was 4
Daw. It s very simple but I feel like it add some substance to the character

>>53408400
One of my favorites

>>53407402
The soviets boasted about having their subways double as fallout shelteres, that's probably a big part of it.

I had an idea for a town that bought self-contained waste processing units and a cleaning goo and used the first to make sewers unnecessary and the second to clean the sewers out for a massive shelter complex.

>>53400825
All the best intentions in the world won't make me forget Natick.

>>53407377
Thanks anon, I've been looking for that image forever.

Still want a Conch Republic where the principle large fauna are Bantyrads (giant mutated chickens), The Hemingway society organizes big game hunts on the mainland, and a raider group called "The Hornets" is trying hard to occupy the Naval Air Station defended by turrets and robots.

>Spent two action points to bump

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>>53403891
The entire point of the Brotherhood was to stop the apocalypse from happening again, and time and time again when some bureaucracy clogged state or ambitious tyrant gets their hands on anything more advanced then a AER9 they prove them right by going about trying to wreck shit all over again.
The NCR with the Divide, the Think Tank's experiments, the traitor Elijah's schemes, the Institutes synths, hell even the guys who destroyed the world in the first place the Enclave were still at it.
No, advanced technology must be kept in trust from humanity until needed, and until we can show some fucking responsibility.
>Inb4 "Well, the Brotherhood use Technology like that all the time you hypocrites!"
The Brotherhood only uses the tech at it's disposal to further their aims of STOPPING PEOPLE FROM GAINING THE MEANS OF ENDING EVERYTHING FOR GOOD.

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What would be some good side quests no matter the location in the US? I want to build up my random tables.

>>53420985
The primary complaints about the BOS is that they don't help anyone but themselves. While their overall mission statement, their believed mandate, is to protect humanity, they really don't give much of a rats ass about individual people and their suffering insofar as their asses aren't on the line to, such as the threat of the Master or basically hiring you to do their dirty work for them in Fallout 2.

Don't get me wrong, I do like them for the most part, but they could certainly do more. Even those uptight assholes at Vault City can be taught a valuable lesson about surviving together and helping each other as a community. Keep in mind supposedly this is what the Brotherhood is doing! Their "good" ending in Fallout 1:

>The Brotherhood of Steel helps the other human outposts drive the mutant armies away with minimal loss of life, on both sides of the conflict. The advanced technology of the Brotherhood is slowly reintroduced into New California, with little disruption or chaos. The Brotherhood wisely remains out of the power structure, and becomes a major research and development house.

And this is supposedly canon. However you see precious little of this in later fallout games and that is definitely not their actions in NV. Strange because the NCR has a state called Maxson after the BoS founder but apparently the BoS has nothing to do with the NCR and are outright antagonistic unless you help ease relations in NV. Sucks, really, because there are a lot of old world technologies that could save people and allow civilization to return that DON'T include nukes. Medicines, farming techniques, generators and irrigation, etc. They could do a shitton of good and still support their goal of safeguarding the most dangerous tech, but that never happened the way it arguably should have.

The Followers are the only path forward.

>>53421083
Technically that ending is still true only they didn't become R&D for the NCR or for the betterment of humanity, they withdrew from any cooperative efforts and went solo.

Which is kind of funny because the Capital Wasteland chapter did try to help people and stand up for the betterment of all communities and sharing technology to help purify water...and not only are they considered nuts by the Outcasts and BoS proper back West but even hardcore fans are said to have loathed it. "NOT MUH BOS!"

>>53421113
Those weird mohawked hippies are their own worst enemies. Noble effort but shit support structures and over-reliance on others like the NCR for any real security in the Wasteland.

>>53421083
Admittedly they could do better by dispersing purification, irrigation, and medical tech to the populace, but that's rather hard when you're beset on all sides by those people trying to seize the weaponizeable tech.

>they really don't give much of a rats ass about individual people and their suffering
You aren't looking at the big picture. Trying to help every community in the wasteland would spread any force too thin. Look what happened to Lyon's brotherhood, they could barely defend themselves let alone deal with the big problems they faced.

>>53421279
>You aren't looking at the big picture.
Says who? Says you, but it's also a huge part of what Veronica bitches about. Helping others allows them to be helped in kind, and also allows them to recruit others. They have some weirdass stringent recruitment policies for the most part. Oh sure they didn't exactly expect you to survive The Glow and you were more an outside contractor in Fallout 2. They Brotherhood could recruit more and expand if they were careful and allowed for proper training of recruits. Plenty of orphans in the wasteland to train up so the kid barely remembers life outside the BoS and only remembers their doctrines and values.

Honestly spreading too thin is the least of their problems if they're willing to stop being such exclusive assholes. The true limiter is that they have issues keeping up their gear and will ultimately struggle to properly outfit teams. Even the BoS has to repair the power armor they have and haven't been shown to be able to create new suits.

For Lyons you have to remember that the change in the East Coast chapter was brought about by the aforementioned fan bitching about, "NOT MUH." Thus they were brought in line with the dickbag isolationist versions who could care less about Wastelanders. "You're either Brotherhood or you're nothing."

This was an attempt at appeasement and frankly trying to emulate NV, which is largely believed to have superior writing and be truer to the original games, rather than proof that the Capital Wasteland efforts were always doomed.

>>53397421
Alright, listen up. i got a quest for you.
>party enters town
>everyone dead quiet except one man
>man gibbers on about "THEY CREATED US, AND ARE DIVINE"
>if player ignores man, and asks around about him, the others will stay completely quiet
>Literally only man in town who talks
>ignore and leave, quest over.
>talk to man, he tells you about how this town was cursed by divine beings
>gives you location of cave filled with some rats, a few mutants, giant ants, and wolfs all in cages
>hostile robots everywhere
>near end of cave, talk to one robot named "Adam"
>"Adam" is looking for his girlfriend "Eve"
>continue inwards to the end of cave and find "eve"
>if killed "Adam" eve will tell you she is looking for him, and asks if you have seen him
>if kills "Eve" and finishes quest, nothing at town changes and quest failed. he gives them smaller reward for trying to help
>if "Adam" meets "Eve" a bright, blinding flash happens as they reunite, and 2 dead robot bodies lay to the side, holding hands, as a brain falls from where they hugged.
>Put brain in robot behind Adam and Eve that was there the entire time, robot turns on and says "I am god... Who has awoken me"
>"I have put a curse on those people in the town. They do not worship the right gods."
>"They must worship the "Atoms" That create us all, and only then will i lift this curse"
>god follows back to town
>tell towns people
>flip a coin, if heads, towns people worship atom and get normal reward from the man, plus a great weapon from the robot, The apple of eden. (The apple grants 3d8 health back to the player, 5d8 if they worship atom, and will do 3d8 damage to animals (death claws, rats, dogs,cats) and humans within 15 feet (5d8 if player worships atom) Catch? only 2 uses a day. and if any radiated creatures are around, it will instead heal the d8's instead of hurt.
>Apple of Eden is literally a apple ipod with 2 small berries that grow every day. you have to eat one of those berries.
(continue)

>>53421679
>if player (any) makes a dc 30 engineering (or appropriate skill in fallout version of rpg) He/She will learn that if implanted with a High Tier battery that works on sucking up radiation, it will be able to grow 4 berries instead of 2
>if tails, the towns people will attack the robot, killing him, and they will give your players lots of caps and stuff, and have to live with their curse. Only old man and offspring will be able to talk.
>reason robot is able to "curse" the people is not cause of his magic skills, its cause he implanted chips into them whilst they slept, and has a machine hidden in the cave that requires a dc17 to see. if engineering the machine (dc 17) they will learn to turn it off. if they smash it, they kill all the towns people (except old man) and they get no reward
>If they turn it off, they get rewards from the "killing god" ending.
>the machine wont be turned on unless someone outside of town or cave turns it on (AKA, had no idea about the "Curse")
>machine can be turned on if god is recreated from adam and eve and turns it back on
END

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>Lone Star will never be finished
;_;

I would have really liked to join a Fallout game but never got to.
What is the best system for a Fallout game ?

>>53423561
Either Savage Worlds or GURPS After the End. The game was originally even written under GURPS mechanics. Warning - using the existing tabletops for Fallout is painful, since they are literally computer mechanics turned into tabletop RPG, with bunch of rolls and modifiers that are fine and dancy when your PC does the math, but are a clusterfuck to do yourself.

>>53421279
Have you played Tactics? BoS from Tactics is what BoS as a whole should be. An extremely well-trained, well-equiped MILITIA, where each community contributes a bit of manpower, a bit of supplies and a bit of ammo, while the BoS as itself dispers patrols, garrisons and unified command, with real military strategy involved.

Instead, BoS as BoS is literally bunch of tech-hoarders that only hoard for themselves, look for themselves and don't exactly help anyone in direct way, at best sending some random patrol on recon mission to find more tech. That's all. And the less is said about BoS from the 3D games, the better, because with each next game they are turning more and more into bunch of assholes that not only are actively the bad guys of the area, but act as if the sole fact they have superior tech stored made them morally good or gave them any right about anything at all, while they are nothing more than well-organised gang of raiders by NV, at least when it comes to general mentality ("extort locals from any technology, because we are the only ones deserving to have it, by the law we gave to ourselves")

I was always on the fence with BoS, but the rifts from Tactics really get me thinking. And then was the material from Van Buren.
BoS is evil. It always was. They are nominally noble "paladins", but in reality they are bunch of elitist assholes that won't even spit in your direction, unless that will grant them additional power cell. They are perfectly capable of helping the wastelands... but they don't.

Compare them with Desert Rangers from Wasteland and Wasteland 2. Rangers don't even have a miniscule of BoS tech and resorces. And yet they are doing their very best and then some to at least provide SOME semblance of civilisation to the world around. BoS talks big, but all they do is sitting their asses in their bunkers, not helping anyone at all. Even themselves, since their ultra-elitist attitude of "no outsider" bites them in the ass with manpower.

>>53421279
Also (since previous comment hit sign limit), consider the following:
There are countless ways of how BoS can help communities and they don't need to help them all at the same time nor spread their forces at all. Consider following, easy-to-perform, low-maintance options
>Armed teacher corp
After a recon, you see Settlements A, C, D and G are in the closest vicinity. Each of them is relatively safe, but faces own problems, mostly related with low-tech limitations or lack of specific knowledge. You can send a basic patrol once per month, visiting each of those settlements for two days each. It's a single patrol, but aside regular soldiers, you put 2 or whatever other number of Scribes is considered useful. You provide locals with basic training in fields of agriculture (that's really not that hard), first aid and medicine (maybe even they have a doctor, so you can further help him by providing proper tools and knowledge, along with some first aid kit rather than improvised shit) and generally supervise all local technical problems. You know, once a month you collect their issues, work for the month on them, come back with solututions. It's not rocket science
>Protected transport
Since your patrol is travelling between those settlements, you can easily attatch a caravan to it, allowing locals to exchange and trade, without making them easy prey to bandits. All four communities can cooperate under your regular patrols, all of them profiting on it, expanding and rebuilding
>Military training
You can help locals organise themselves against bandits when you yourself aren't present. A bit of drill here, a bunch of basic tactics training there, and you can make a difference for them. Not even because they will protect themselves (they probably won't), but because you will provide them with hope. You will provide them with the semblance of being safe and secure

And all of that with one and the same small patrol.
Multiply by few patrols and you secured wide area

>>53423897
And you know who does that and more?
NCR. Which is the very cornerstone of their power in California and the foundation of the Republic.
And they've started with just bunch of village guards, handful of guns and a strong conviction to help others.

>>53397548
that national park could very well be zion

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>>53421430
Where are they supposed to just find a bunch of orphans? There isn't some little lamplight settlement in the west: kids have families. They're "dickbag isolationists" because they've been hunted by the greedy NCR who wants their tech and sought to take it by force, pushing them out despite having both been integral parts in each others development.Their elitist attitude, is and was a response to the wastelanders being shitty people by and large. Yes, they could relax their recruitment procedure but it's hard to do that when their whole force is concentrated under enemy territory. Even Elijahs efforts to get in with the locals was pure pragmatism on Elijahs part though it, like Helios proved pointless and Elijah chased that goal into a grave (if you don't want everyone to die in the gas that is). It's only by taking advantage of the fact that the NCR is in need of help that they're willing to accept the Brotherhood aid in return for their mutilated power armor. With the war between them and the NCR over and them becoming a sort of militia force they would probably integrate into wider society over time. Also they do have some manufacturing ability and have had it since fallout 1, including power armor in limited quantities, with that role being a huge part of the job of knights. Thus the eye shield not being satisfactory on one suit.

>>53423936
That was my favorite DLC in NV, easily. That said, I'd do a different park, just because Zion's story is pretty well covered in lore all the way back to boom time.

>>53423794
>if you don't help everyone when you can, you're evil
I bet you thought is was good for the east coast retards to sacrifice everything including their duty to humanity, all to keep those settlements going, when those retards just sit in their holes and sip from the sink, listen to the radio, and munch on 200 year old food. They don't fucking work (outside of lamplight) and nobody is farming anything: that's why society never rebuilt over their, not any lack of resources. The best among those locals was going to use a geck, the same kind of machine that made vault city a prosperous place, to purify water so the people could have more clean water bottles when they've gotten by for two hundred years like that. You can't help people who won't help themselves and encouraging that is bullshit.

Actually helping people rebuild quickly would mean doing what the NCR is doing: walking the same road America went down before the bombs dropped, racing down into a "civilized" conquest of everything. If that road ending in atomic fire the first time wasn't a sure sign that path is wrong, I don't know what would be. Them not participating in that probably isn't good, but it's definitely not evil.

>>53397421
Daily reminder that the enclave did nothing wrong, and were the best shot that humanity and the US had at re-establishing itself as a functional nation.

>>53424642
>Entirely ignoring three-post long message
>Implying things that even aren't there in the first place
You know what?
Fuck you.

>>53424469
>Where are they supposed to just find a bunch of orphans?
Have you played the game? Orphans are a dime a dozen in the Wasteland. Pick up a rock and throw it, bam, you'd have killed an orphan if they weren't all automatically set to essential.

They've also been "dickbag isolationists" since before there even WAS an NCR, anon.

Oh, and only the Enclave has been said to have the resources and technology to manufacture new armor. That's why they've produced the Hellfire armor but the BoS is stuck with pre-war models. They can only find and repair, they can't design and create anything new.

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>>53425769
In Fallout 4 Danse mentions that they have the ability to manufacture new armors, however this is very probably an East Coast situation since they've all traded in their outdated T-45s for the T-60 that is more advanced than the West Coast branch's standard armor. They also have fleets of vertibirds, not to mention the Prydwen. This suggests the spoils of their conflict with the Enclave were quite high, complete with Enclave facilities.

Just for some reason they prefer the T-60 over the still superior Enclave armor and variants. Something to be said for tradition, sticking to their military roots, and not wanting to look like your enemy, I guess.

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>>53425769
It helps to remember that canonically places like New Vegas have a much higher population than we ever seen rendered in-game. Makes sense as most towns are so small and sparsely populated they couldn't handle the genetic issues of such a low gene pool.

>>53424469
>Where are they supposed to just find a bunch of orphans?
That's easy. They start The Elder Maxson Memorial Orphanarium: "Have a kid? Drop it off for a box of Dandy Boy Apples! Mm, they're DANDY!"

Boom, problem solved. The bigger problems with community outreach is from what I recall the Bros weren't big on medical tech. They don't do cybernetics or, typically, auto-docs. They like big guns and they cannot lie, preferably plasma but laser is fine too. The NCR armor issue is supposed to be because they were too far from special bases to support the high tech armor's systems so they used it without power. Feels like bullshit to me but there we are.

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>>53426253
>canonically places like New Vegas have a much higher population than we ever seen rendered in-game

T-thanks, Gamebryo.

>>53427003
The Vaults can be particularly silly. They're supposed to have huge capacity to ensure a healthy survivor population post-war but typically we see a few bedrooms, maybe some bunkbeds. They couldn't handle 50 people let alone 500. Of course that's nothing really new. Vault 13 had a capacity for 1,000 and a hundred living quarters.

Of course the real purpose of the Vaults was "hilarious" experiments, but they still tended to have large populations. Ultimately we're just forced to imagine many more levels we never see or take the Vaults at present size as symbolic only and not representative of reality. Scale are all like that. Vegas is itty bitty in this game.

>>53399165
So many errors in just the first two lines, I had to stop reading..

>>53425769
I mean, you can give them vertibird plans. It's presumed they can manufacture them. The first two games present the idea that manufacturing is more limited but still in existence, otherwise those plans would be useless to anyone but the enclave.

Also, being an isolationist is kind of the default if you have some kind of bunker in the time of fallout 1 anon, since the wastelanders are mostly dirt crusted raiders and hostile mutants, with small settlements eeking out an existence in ruins, shacks or shitty adobe houses, and even most of those are fairly willing to divide and kill each other if they get the chance.

>>53423794
>nothing more than a well organized gang of raiders
Isn't that every faction in the setting who aren't the followers of the apocalypse or disorganized gangs of raiders?

>>53427926
>being an isolationist is kind of the default if you have some kind of bunker in the time of fallout 1 anon
Vault City farts in your general direction, anon. They still maintain their vault AND their glorious GECK restored paradise. They're less isolationist and more stuck up snobs who think they are superior to everyone else. They just don't have any real interest in expansion and enjoy their fixed society thank you very much. The ONLY reason their vault limits them is they are still relying on the fusion reactor and it can't handle growth, however you have the option of brokering an alliance between them and Gecko, trading power for promises to help upkeep their reactor and medical technology in the hopes of reversing the Ghoul condition.

You are clearly not thinking outside your own mental bunker. Because what is such a fortification in the wasteland except...a castle. And castles filled with knights can still have domains that stretch beyond the boundaries of their walls. They can still expand their ranks and, yes, build or secure new bunkers to extend their territory.

>>53428474
The goddamn Minutemen did this and they were Wastelanders with laser muskets. The reasons for their defeats:

>couldn't hold the Castle against goddamn mirelurks
>internal disputes possibly instigated or at least exacerbated by Institute Synths especially since both Piper and Desdemona tell you the Minutemen and Institute had battled in the past
>still trying to prove their strength despite their losses by facing the well armed Gunners, reinforcements refusing to help, and a defector

None of which proves that the Minutemen couldn't work especially since the Lone Survivor can rebuild them better than ever. And the Minutemen are hardly alone. Hell, the Gunners maintain a fair amount of territory despite being a crazy ass bunch of vault dwellers.

If ANYONE is equipped to expand their borders intelligently, securing and repairing old pre-war facilities to working condition it's the BoS. They don't really bother, though, so what happens? People with far less tech like the NCR do it instead and prosper while the BoS is slowly ground down due to the collision between the inevitable future and their own unyielding stubbornness.

>>53427926
>well organized gang of raiders
Of course not. Tribals are considered separate from most gangs, the difference largely being technological. Gangers will gun you down while downing Jet, a tribal will gut you with a spear while gargling broc flowers.

There are also plenty of settlements otherwise the raiders only have other raiders to raid. A juicy settlement typically only has token attempts at law and order. Then there are Vault Dwellers, Super Mutants, Ghouls, etc.

>>53424655
>A single station killing everyone on Earth but themselves
>Best shot
Genetics alone would kill them in next 6 generations

>>53428491
The point is - EVERYONE did that, but not BoS. And in all their "brilliance" they've packed all people with at least two brain cells to rub together into expensive and pretty much pointless expeditions east-ward. The funny thing, East BoS (the one from Chicago), turned out to be fully functional, even in their worst case scenario ending. Hell, they've managed to have things going well enough to send their own missions, since, duh, they had manpower and resources for that.
Guess what West BoS doesn't have.

>>53429026
>pointless expeditions east-ward
Hey now, the East Coasters are actually the most successful and technologically advanced chapter to date! They've got a functioning armored airship, even better armors, a fleet of Vertibirds, plenty of recruits, and both redesigned and built a new Liberty Prime!

>>53429135
Or they had all that and lost it to an artillery barrage from the locals they were raiding for food, because they were fighting a war on two fronts and only committed to one.

>>53429026
The west coast bos doesn't have adequate resources and manpower because they didn't capitalize on potential local acquisitions. They chose to remain salty in their own bunker and were shocked, shocked when they peeked out and saw the ncr owned everything around them.

Thing is that isn't exactly true. The bos had bunkers in Shady Sands, The Den, and San Francisco, at least. These outposts probably didn't survive the hostility with the ncr.

>>53429228
Fair is fair, the BoS in Fallout 4 are an expeditionary force targeting the extreme threat represented by The Institute.

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>>53426043
>not wanting to look like your enemy
>Not wanting to be a brutal fascist dictatorship ruling the wastes with an iron fist
what a bunch of fags, these east-coasters

>>53429026
This is uncertain canon but in Van Buren the reason the NCR and Brotherhood came into conflict was Jeremy Maxson began jealously hoarding technology in pursuit of the Brotherhood's eastward expansion. This unfortunately lead to them deciding to seize control over technology of other factions, including the NCR.

So basically they had a period of helping others and good relations but the current High Elder fucked that up, driving the Brotherhood into an insular state and then lashed out at former allies. Despite initial favorable results due to their superior technology they got their ass whopped by the Bear's superior numbers.

>>53397421
A rampaging 7-foot tall ghost trapper from the Sierra Madre attacks a group of cultist that meet in a university bathroom every Sunday, armed with nothing but a folding chair.
The cultist worship a giant lawnmower that is crashed into the side of the building as "the beast". They want help with "waking it up" after ghost fucker is dealt with.
If anyone gives the Ghost trapper a real weapon, he slaughters the entire group and rides the lawnmower away after unhinging its break.
Thought of all that over coffee this morning for some reason. Dunno why.

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>>53429371
Mid-Wester Chapter is just weird but the Texas is really fucked up. I hear they let Ghouls join!

Say what you will about the BoS but at least Marcus is still around, even if his juices never did start flowing again.

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>>53429135
>Seriously bringing Bethesda games as canon

>>53429270
Daily reminder it was BoS who started the war.

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>>53429504
Can't fight the future, Chris Avellone.

>>53408289
I still miss Adam.

>>53408289
I will admit it did feel like too much of Washington was still standing. Ruined and inaccessible, sure, but you'd think enough nukes would have been aimed at it that the entire area would be flattened by the blast waves.

>>53430197
Actually I'm a bit torn on this one. House had missile defenses that took out a fair number of nukes, albeit still enough to fuck up the region for centuries, but Washington would be a higher priority target than Las Vegas... or would it?

Any government typically has evacuation plans and C&C in remote fortified areas, Enclave or no Enclave, so really is it still a priority? Or do you still aim to wipe it off the map for symbolic reasons? Not that symbolic will mean much by the time the last bomb explodes.

>>53430197
Honestly, Washington wasn't much issue for me, since a lot of stuff is wasted and broken or simply decayed over time
But Boston? It doesn't even look as if it sustained regular bombing from a WW2 era bombers, not tom mention being fucking nuked.

>>53430404
I can't remember too clearly (I'm with the anon who says Fallout 4 was just plan boring, in fact I still haven't completed the main quest though I did finish the largely disappointing DLC) but wasn't part of the somewhat better survival of Boston because that Chinese sub didn't complete launching its payload before it struck a mine? They managed most of their strategic launches, if memory serves, but I'm not sure Boston was the target since the sub itself was so close to shore.

I could very easily be wrong.

Has there ever been a fallout set in the Midwest, ie, the place most likely to survive a nuclear exchange since it has lower population density? Admittedly all those military bases would be targets, but there's still vast tracts of land out there.

>>53430541
Anon, Boston is a 6th target in a 10 nuke scenario And we are talking about all-out nuclear exchange here, so there is from 3 to 10 nukes flying just for the city and the entire metropolitan area. Just the nuke you watch exploding in the game's opening should be more than enough to turn southern half of Boston into rubble.

>>53430607
We have some information on the Midwest however how much of it is canon is uncertain. For instance the BoS Midwest chapter pictured >>53429371

>>53430607
Tactics, you pleb

>>53430639
That picture is from literally worst possible ending of the game.

>>53430607
Here you go
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Midwest

>>53430627
Chill, dude. Nobody said they weren't targeted, in fact quite the opposite. However relegating a coastal city to a sub is possible and if that sub failed to achieve complete destruction of the region...

>>53430669
Either you don't understand how SLBMs work or have no clue about destructive power of your average, "small" yield warhead, or you know both of those and are intentionally defending shit-tier writing by Bethesda

>>53430744
Anon, you clearly have no clue how FALLOUT works. No, not nuclear fallout, the game. Radiation just persists, turns people into Ghouls, and, yes, leaves a ton of shit standing, including overpasses which even if humanity had been wiped out by far less destructive means of, say, a viral outbreak would still have worn away and collapsed within 100 years tops.

Shit. Just. Endures. That's Fallout so they can still have oft-times functioning ruins two hundred years after the war.

This conversation is even worse if you're the bonehead complaining Boston should look worse than Washington DC.

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>>53430808
My favorite is all the overpass camps. Some of the Gunner installations include a lot of extra weight including windmills tacked on structures that already should have collapsed decades earlier.

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>>53430856
Unsurprisingly the devs decided it would be more fun to explore actual ruins instead of just massive craters. Go figure. Realism can get stuffed, zero fucks given.

>>53430808
In that anon's defense he just thought it should look worse than it did, not that it should necessarily look worse than DC.

>>53430808
>two hundred years after the war.

Honestly the 200 years thing is stupid for a litany of reasons.
Makes way more sense to just ignore the second zero.

>>53430808
>Anon, you clearly have no clue how FALLOUT works
I do. I very much do.
Thing is - I know how FALLOUT works. Not FALLOUT AS BETHESDA WRITES IT.
Those are two fully separated things.

>>53430944
This.
Honestly, FO4 could work, despite all the lackluster elements, if it took place fucking 20-30 years after the war. It would be perfect as such.
200 years? Are they fucking kidding themselves? Even Bumfuck, Nowhere managed to rebuild by that time into New Bumfuck, Pristine.

>Southern California
>20 years before New Vegas

So Fallout 2 twenty years later?

Have it be about the Chosen One's kid he canonically had with Bishop's daughter taking over the place, and the group getting caught up in the center of it all.

>>53430976
Bethesda is Fallout now, no matter how much you whine, weep, gnash your teeth, and pound your hands on the ground.

>>53430607
Not really, but Honest Hearts from New Vegas sort of shows what a place pretty well-shielded from most radiation and the initial blast would look like, being set in a canyon out in the middle of nowhere.

>>53431048
Not even him, but this reality also doesn't change the simple truth they have no clue how to run Fallout as a setting. It reached the point of unintentional mockery that isn't even aware it is a self-parody. That's fucking sad.

>>53431092
>Not really
>What's Tactics
Hello, sonny boy. Do you know it's adult-only board?

>>53431007
I don't care too much about the timeframe, they're already having us make allowances for how things work like they are a super 50s version of the future when the war hit. Okay, I can deal. Fallout 1 and 2 had plenty of parody elements, they weren't intending things to be taken 100% seriously.

What I'd really like is if we would stop exploring the damn US. Post-War Australia may be a bit too on-the-nose but occupied Canada, Alaska, a reverse Shi scenario where there are descendants of the US invasion force in China, even Europe.

>>53431048
And I can whine, weep, gnash my teeth and pound my hands on the ground all I want to due to the fact those incompetent hacks are runni... wait, ruining Fallout as a setting. And you can't do anything about it.

>>53431100
Different strokes for different folks. I feel as you do but there is a risk of turning ourselves into a NOT MUH FALLOUT parody. Whatever else the games still sell like crazy.

At least there is Wasteland 2, right? Not that I enjoyed that story too much.

>>53431113
>Tactics
>Story mattering

>>53431121
Anon, you are forgetting something here. Placing Fallout game outside US means... shock and terror... creative effort! You much create entire setting from a scratch, rather than spin at least some bare-bones idea. And Bethesda is literally too thick in the ears to manage something as dangerous as making things from a scratch. Instead, each 8 years new Fallout, each being more and more retarded and diluted, but hey, they are the copyright owner, so if they decide to, they can even set the franchise aflame and watch it burn down into cinders.