Do you prefer FTL to be stolen/scavenged from ancient aliens,

>>53370397
So how did the ancient aliens discover FTL?

>inb4 "Even older aliens, stupid!"

Discovered by combining two species' specific outlook on physics and technology, unavailable to either of them individually.

>>53370453
Bargain with the space satan.

Individual discoveries seems like the safe default.

If you have some specific direction you want to take the old alien tech thing in, sure, go ahead. If it's good it'll be good. Otherwise you probably shouldn't bother.

>>53370397
Do it the way Stellaris/Sword of the Stars does it. Many paths to the same result, often with typical outcomes.

Warp along ftl lines
Gate jumping
Hyperdrives
Interdimensional jumping
Etc

I prefer FTL not to exist.

Because it makes my fucking brain hurt.

How the fuck would a universe without causality work?
Or how the fuck would a universe with time travel work?

That's why I stick to good old spacetime bending/worm holes.

>>53372265
That would be cool, Stellaris is the only one I know of that uses multiple methods for FTL.

>>53372274
Technically our universe has time travel if you get close enough to a black hole.

>>53372313
Time travel into the future isn't really time travel.

That's just going really fast.

>>53370453
It's older aliens all the way down

>>53370397

Larry Niven's approach was to have the existence of a hyperdrive be well-known to humans, something used by ancient aliens billions of years ago but which hasn't been re-invented.

The reason is that hyperdrive depends on physics in very, very flat space far away from any mass sources. Unexpected discoveries that you won't blunder into unless you spend most of your time at the furthest reaches of your solar system or beyond.

So in Known Space, Niven's humans end up buying the secret of hyperdrive from aliens called the Outsiders, beings who exist mostly due to the chemistry of liquid helium and evolved eons ago at kuiper-belt distances from their sun. They don't use hyperdrive themselves for a number of reasons, but once they figured the physics out they made a practice of selling it to races who were unlikely to ever develop it themselves.

I don't really have a preference when it comes to whether humans invent or acquire hyperdrive. It depends on the kind of setting you're building and both can be cool. But if you're going to go down the road of buying it from aliens, this is a nice way to do it without making them Precursor cliches or hyper-advanced.

>>53372274
FTL is not time travel unless you're really bad at math, and it doesn't violate causality unless you're a philosophy major with too much time and alcohol on your hands.

Also, spacetime bending/worm holes _are_ a type of FTL travel, though if you believe Hawking, Worm holes are also a possible means of actual time travel, which means they violate your own rule of "don't make my brain hurt".

>>53370453
>So how did the ancient aliens discover FTL?

Aliens who haven't even been born yet going back in time to the start of the universe to escape the inevitable "big whimper" at the end of time.

Magic.

>>53372572
>FTL is not time travel unless you're really bad at math

This is what people who have never drawn a Minkowski diagram actually believe.

FTL = time travel is trivial.

If you really must have FTL in a relativistic setting, a directed graph (or Visser radiation, if you believe that meme) can be set up to maintain causality inside the network. But someone in-setting could simply build a network that breaks it.

I like it pseudo-Mass Effect style. FTL is impossible, travel between systems at any reasonable speed has to be accomplished with existing gates created by a long-extinct species of alien through technology so advanced it seems like magic.

>>53370397
ever see event horizon anon? Like that.

>>53372377
>They don't use hyperdrive themselves for a number of reasons, but once they figured the physics out they made a practice of selling it to races who were unlikely to ever develop it themselves.
I can't explain exactly why, but I like this.

>>53372677
FTL exists in ME, it just still has travel speed, making gates and their instantaneous travel interesting. Gates just link clusters of systems together, they're not in every system.

>>53370397
>FTL
Ugh.

>>53372609
Fuck off.
>>53372892
Thanks pretentious-kun, your own opinions are soooo much better. ugh.

>>53372892
>Ugh

I this the stupid thing to do now when someone posts an acronym?

Makes me baka desu 4 real.

I just combined a bunch of things and called it done.

Once you find a way to mass produce the FTL powering crystals, you are basically in the clear.

Only problem is that scientists are still working on understanding it. They know more or less how to get it to work 99.999% of the time, but they also found out, that I'm smaller sizes but altering the shape, you can basically use them as Catalysts to perform the settings magic equivalent. HOWEVER, each Catalyst is tied to its ability. If you want to go full Wizard, you will have to watch out for the Fashion Police, who have open orders to shoot you on sight for being so gaudy.

>>53372738

The Outsiders were pretty cool. Totally harmless but also very, very advanced. Their biology made them not a threat to anyone, and also gave them a very different environment so they had a whole different tech tree.

They also invented a reactionless drive. It was up for sale, but so expensive that no race was able to afford it until very late in Niven's setting, when the (also incredibly advanced and wealthy) Puppeteers bankrupted themselves buying it.

Niven's known space stories are fading into history, which is sad because they're fucking amazing science fiction. And they came just as the New Wave of the 60's with their literary + scientifically illiterate style had spent itself out. His fascinating stories resurrected science fiction and were fantastic both to read and to think about.

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>>53370397
None of the above.

>>53372654
>Minkowski diagram

See "philosophy majors with too much time and alcohol on their hands".

Travel from point A to point B tales X seconds. Travelling back from B to A also takes X seconds. Upon returning to point A, X*2 seconds has passed. It doesn't matter that you can wait ten minutes and watch yourself arrive and depart from point B with a telescope, you have not travelled in time any more than someone who exceeds the speed of sound has travelled in time when they stop and hear themself shout really loud "over there".

>>53372572
Fuck off, learn some fucking physics faggot.

Faster than light travel either means you can travel through time, or that causality no longer exists.

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/fasterlight.php

>>53373124
>The Outsiders were pretty cool
That is simultaneously a massive understatement, and a pretty good pun.

>>53373190
>you have not travelled in time any more than someone who exceeds the speed of sound has travelled in time when they stop and hear themself shout really loud "over there".
YOU GODDAMN MONGOLOID CUNT!

THAT'S STILL INFORMATION TRAVELLING THROUGH TIME!

STILL
TIME
TRAVEL

>>53373252
> moronic caps-lock ranting

And you're an inbred half-wit.

Time travel of that nature is one-way, doesn't violate any laws of physics or causality, and you're doing it right now, this message was typed in at a time before you saw it, and *WHOOO* you're seeing it at a later time!

> OH NOES CAUSALITY AM BROEKN!

That couldn't possibly have happened! Clearly you're just imagining this whole thing while your brain sits in a jar on someone's desk, anything else would be a violation of physics!

>>53373252
Well, then we've already proven time travel is possible, and in fact engage in it regularly.

>>53373252
Then literally everything is time travel.

>>53373313
Could you please send me next week's lottery numbers next time you go fly, anon? I could really do with the extra cash.

>>53373312
>>53373313
>>53373335
I want these retarded space opera faggots out.

>>53373353
Yeah, that'll show 'em. Don't address anything in their post, just call them all retards and faggots.

>>53373353
You're just imagining us anon, communication is impossible, so we don't really exist. You should probably see a therapist about that, but they don't really exist either. I guess that means you should imagine one.

>>53373202
>i can link atomic rockets so that means im smart!!!!1
not the anon you are responding to but you are still retarded

>go to a planet at 1,1 speed of light
>turn around
>go back to earth at 9,9 speed of light
>spot exact same ship heading your way
>blow it up

Congratulations, you just successfully travelled through time AND caused a time paradox! Congratulations!

>>53373353
>space operafags are the problem
No, the problem is you, you mong

>>53373461
>spot exact same ship heading your way
>try to blow it up
>realize it's just the light from your ship and not actually your ship
>realize you're retarded for trying to blow yourself up and thinking it would work to begin with

>>53373375
>>53373353

People who can't do a Lorentz transformation are subhuman.

You wouldn't listen to a creationist talking about biology or an antivaxxer talking about medicine, why listen to someone who denies multiplication and division about math?

I like how EVE Online and Stars Without Numbers does it.

You circumvent the FTL = Time Travel problem by submarining through an alternate dimension to the location you want to go rather than actually trying to accelerate past the speed of light.

>>53373522
>I watched an 8 minute Khan Academy video so I think I know better than Stephen Hawking

>>53373190

I'm going to make a wild leap and guess you haven't taken a class in modern physics?

>>53373522
>You wouldn't listen to a creationist talking about biology or an antivaxxer talking about medicine, why listen to someone who denies multiplication and division about math?
I wouldn't listen to a retard on a Mongolian porn sharing website who's convinced that FTL is possible when ALL physicists in the universe are certain it is impossible either.

>>53373213

It was unintentionally brilliant, thanks for pointing that out.

>>53370397
Scientific discovery, but something so complicated and exotic that it's impossible to use it for anything else than information. For example you would need to make an Eistein-Rozen bridge using two artificial black holes made only of pairs of entangled particles and using monthly output of the Sun you could open that wormhole wide enough to send photons through and it would collapse after 13.7 picoseconds. You couldn't travel faster than light, but you could warn a planet on the other side of your galaxy that rebel forces are exterminatusing you.

>>53373564
Just curious, what are you thinking of when you say "FTL"? Are you thinking of a ship that physically moves faster than light? Or are you thinking of a method of travel in which the ship arrives sooner than it would take light to travel that distance unaided? Because it seems like you're thinking the former while everyone you're arguing against is thinking of the latter

>>53373547
That doesn't circumvent it. If you had a fantasy Newtonian universe like Spelljammer, or a science fiction Newtonian universe like the Culture, and they were parallel to a relativistic universe; plane shifting from RL to magicland, going FTL there, and plane shifting back still results in time travel here.

FTL = time travel has nothing to do with the details of how the plot device works. It's an inherent trait of a relativistic universe.

>>53373564
>when ALL physicists in the universe are certain it is impossible

So you've met them all and asked them in person? 'Cause I've asked a few who've said otherwise, I work with them on a daily basis. There's a difference between "impossible" and "would require more energy than earth can currently produce". It's subtle, but it's there.

>>53373547
Traveller does it also. Actually sometimes it has 6 fast lanes in Subspace.

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>>53373634
>'Cause I've asked a few who've said otherwise, I work with them on a daily basis.
And my dad works for Nintendo.

>>53373625
You can shut up and stop being a massive autist, time travel-kun

>>53373665
Relax normie. It's ok to learn high school science.

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>>53372274
>Whine about causality
>Use wormholes

>>53373690
>normie
/b/ is that way, faggot

>>53370397

I don't like FTL.
It's absence improves games.

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>>53373190
>Travel from point A to point B tales X seconds. Travelling back from B to A also takes X seconds. Upon returning to point A, X*2 seconds has passed.
Holy fuck lemme break it down Barney style for your dumb ass
>Jimmy hops on a spaceship going at 99.whatever% c
>John stays on Earth and waits 3 years
>from John's perspective Jimmy ages about 6 weeks
>from Jimmy's perspective John ages about 2 days
>John FTL travels to Jimmy and now shares Jimmy's frame of reference
>John looks back at Earth and Jimmy tells him it's rotated about twice
>John FTL travels back to Earth
>John arrives back on Earth 3 years minus 2 days before he left and beats himself to death with a baseball bat

>>53373808
Ah, so you fall into the "terminally bad at math" category.
Got it.

>>53373808
I read this post with the mental voice of a very angry drill sergeant.

10/10 would get mentally yelled at again.

>>53373808
Not if they're using a wormhole to travel. They could reach a destination any distance away while from their own frame of reference only travelling a few feet.

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>>53373828
>understand special relativity = terminally bad at math

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>>53373849
Wormholes aren't Aperture style portals

>>53373851
"Understand special relativity" doesn't involve losing track of frames of reference in your own example. That's called "being bad at math".

>>53373885
I haven't lost track of any frames of reference fuck tard.

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>>53373849
>tfw you realize a traversable Kerr metric would need to be multiple AU outside the solar system to remain stable so even FTL interstellar travel still takes years

>>53373124
>Totally harmless
They fucking weren't. They could accelerate from a standstill to nearly lightspeed INSTANTLY, and back down just as instantly. They sold engines to the Puppeteers that could move planets, or shatter them into gravel if used wrong.

>>53373862
Eric Christian, who works for NASA with a doctorate in physics and a major in astronomy, describes wormholes as "a short cut, so that something that was far away is much closer".

But hey, I'm sure you know way more than he does.

My last Space Campaign Starred Spaceman Spiff and his ship was powered by Imaginanium-infused Cardboardium.

Actually, Humans used Colony ships and settled close enough together that the game didn't need FTL,
Traveller without Jump Drives.

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>>53373975
Yeah you fucking brainlet moron. "Much closer" doesn't mean "instantaneous transportation."

>>53373808
>I just confused an abstraction for reality

>>53373998
I never claimed it did. I only claimed that your arrival at the destination would be sooner than it would take light to travel that distance unaided (i.e. the definition of "FTL")

>>53373968
Sounds like someone forgot the Kzinti lesson.

>>53373975
>man dumbs down math for innumerates
>innumerates turn around and tell other people who actually read the math it's not that complicated

Social trivia: the IQ communications gap is real and kicks in at a 2 standard deviation difference.

Ask your next wormhole teacher about mass balancing versus nonlocality.

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>>53374023
You said "traveling a few feet" which is wrong.

>>53373919

It's like you were dropped on your head repeatedly as a child.

Jimmy hops in a spaceship going at 99.whatever%c

John stays on earth and waits 3 years

Jimmy's experience of that time is 6 weeks.

From John's experience, looking in a magical telescope, Jimmy has aged (and moved) very slowly the whole time, and looks about 6 weeks older after three years.

From Jimmy's experience, again looking in the magical telescope, John was moving very fast indeed, and got older.

John then undertakes the same distance journey at FTL speeds, and finds that Jimmy is very angry that he wasted all that fuel on a slow-boat ship, but hey, those three years still happened, even if he only felt like it was 6 weeks so what are you gonna do?

From Jimmy's perspective, earth has rotated three years worth of times in six weeks, because earth wasn't moving with him.

From John's perspective, it's only turned about twice since he left earth, but then there was also that three years of turns that happened while he was building his FTL ship.

John FTL travels back to earth, and arrives four days after he left, then three years later can watch himself arriving at Jimmy's place in the magical telescope, because that's how long the light takes to arrive.

>>53374041
>What is hyperbole

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>>53374039
U R being quite rude u know. It's uncalled for. U should expect brainlets on /tg/.

>>53374030
What? That's not relevant here. My point is that the Outsiders aren't harmless because there could be a rock heading towards your homeworld RIGHT NOW at near-lightspeed, or could be one at any point if there's an outsider ship around.

>>53374023
>>53374062
But the light of an object is not that object. If you travel to a location with FTL, you are at that location and not where you left. It may LOOK that way, but you are not in two places at once.

I watched "Honey I Shrunk the Kids" once and wondered whether that technology could be used for something else. So I came up with Szalinski Drive.
You have to make an assumption about the way the shrinking and enlarging beams work: that the action (shrinking/enlarging) is "centered" on the point of contact of the beam with a body, which works from the outside observer reference frame. Then you make a long spaceship. On one end of the spaceship you place the enlarging beam. On the other end - shrinking beam. When you want to go fast, you engage the enlarging beam, which makes your ship really big. Like, millions of AUs big. Your ship somehow doesn't get crushed by gravitational forces (just like the giant kid could move at all). Since the enlarging effect is centered on the point of contact of the enlarging beam, the other side of your ship is now millions of AUs away. Then you engage the shrinking beam and return to normal size. However, to an outside observer the shrinking beam made contact with your ship millions of AU away and after shrinking, the beam is still in that exact spot in space. In result you have "moved" through space without actually moving. Since you had zero velocity, there was no problem with breaking the speed of light. Enlarging and shrinking fast enough could make you "move" arbitrarily fast.

>>53374039
Nobody said it isn't complicated, but we're talking about sci fi here.

>>53374091
All travel takes place in spacetime, not only space.

Travel back in time to before you left, and now there are two of you. Loop until there are as many clones as you need.

>>53374111
This is like when dumb people talk about rotating a lightyears long pole in space. It's wrong.

>>53374062
>From Jimmy's experience, again looking in the magical telescope, John was moving very fast indeed, and got older.
No you moron, that's the opposite of "relativity". Jimmy's and John's frames of reference are equal and unprivileged. From Jimmy's perspective Earth is moving away at 99.fuck% c and fucking slows down. It doesn't speed up just because you feel like the Earth is special.

>>53374111
10/10 anon

best method of ftl i've seen yet

>>53374167
No, dipshit, that's not how physics works. Have you actually read A Brief History Of Time?

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>>53374030
The Kzinti Lesson:

No matter how much science you put in your Science Fiction, there will Always be catgirls.

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if dark energy is constantly injecting space in between everything y cant light energy be used to suck space out in front of you're ship and decrease the distance you need to travel

>>53374290
Dark energy ain't the opposite of light u dumbass.

>>53374290
no-one is saying you can't do an alcubierre drive.

just that, if it's used in a realistic setting, you'll never lose a lottery again.

>>53374266
Is this a troll post? Why would you recommend a history book when you're talking about physics?

>>53373202
Listen nigga, I you have literally faith in science but the speed of light is merely the fastest speed we've observed, it doesn't mean it's the possible faster speed that will ever be reachable.

>>53374347
I'm >>53374167; and you're the troll.

A Brief History Of Time was cutting edge 30 years ago. It's understandable that since I'm simplifying the hell out of math, there will be friendly fire.

Not sure whether the people who deny temporal cloning are for serious though. It's a bit of a given once you admit information transfer.

>>53374377
Think of the speed of light in vacuum as the bandwidth cap of the universe. Light happens to go that speed because that's the fastest anything can go.

>>53374347
Maybe he is pointing out that the book doesn't mention anyone with dozens of clones.

>>53374426
You mean that's because our current technology can only reac that maximum cap, likewise we can only observe a limited part of the particles that make universe and how they interact.

See it under another light, if you were to explain to a medieval man that you can easily split the atom he wouldn't believe it because they didn't even develop the instruments to observe atoms and of course our science is based around what we can actually observe and rules are made around that, that is to say that rules of physics are bound to change the more we discover like quantum physics throw out of the window "classic" physics.

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>>53374426
>

>>53374484
Generally in science you know or suspect something is possible long before you do it. We knew fission was possible before nukes. Everything we know about information transfer and physics in general says "you can't do this" when we look at FTL.

>>53374524
There are many people pursuing theories to get to a FTL drive, mostly they just end up with the conclusion that we don't have yet the tech to build such a thing.

>>53370397
Developed scientifically by one or two races who made a rare breakthrough and then shared with/copied by any other sentient and species they meet because I like settings where most races aren't randomly total assholes to each other. Also like it when there is just a metric fuck tonne of sentients all over the place with many capable of breathing similar atmospheres. Makes cities and star ports delightfully diverse.

I dislike "Ancient Alien Progenitors" in general since their shit inevitably becomes the be all and end all and the key to one race becoming the galactic superpower. I prefer the idea of the same mundane politics and resource needs that result in wars here on earth resulting in titanic conflicts of hundreds of worlds fighting for supremacy in the future more satisfying.

>>53374426
but that's not at all what bandwidth is

>>53374606
No, most of the time they end up with "oops this relies on something impossible!"
Or maybe they postulate bullshit and say "well when the LHC turns on we'll prove you all wrong!" then get BTFO and say "well ackshully we needed higher energy levels than the LHC can produce so we're not wrong yet!"
Or perhaps more often we get "this is not violating any universal law but we have no fucking idea if it's possible to stabilize it enough to be usable."

>>53374694
Yes and they are correct, we don't have yet the meanings to harness the energy necessary, not only that but you blindly believe that we've discovered the absolute "rules of the universe" in less than 200 years of actually scientific development, our instruments are still very primitive and to think we have such absolute answers is pure arrogance to say at least.

>>53374694
>well ackshully we needed higher energy levels than the LHC can produce so we're not wrong yet!
This is correct, though. It is literally impossible for experimentation to prove something right, but it only takes the result of one experiment to prove something wrong. Nothing about their experimentation proved them wrong.

>>53370453
The gods gave it to them.

>>53374776
Primitive compared to what you dumb nigger? We can determine the composition of a star billions of light-years away just by looking at the light it shits out. Seems pretty fucking advanced to me.
>>53374811
Spotted the string (((theorist))). Keep getting BTFO maybe your butt will stop hurting in one of those 11 dimensions.

>>53370397
I hate settings that have one style of FTL across the board.

Why can't you have different style FTL, each with their own pros and cons? Some sort of wormhole portal thing can be the fastest and safest, but requires gates on each end, so it's mainly between most important worlds. Jump drives would move you equally fast, but you need to be sure there isn't anything where you end up or you'll fuck yourself. Warp/hyper drive would be slower, but more secure. Some interdimensional sub-space drive would be faster, but you're also going blind, as you won't know where you'll end up when you exit.

>>53374861
>No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong.
>t. alberto einstein

>>53374328
>if it's used in a realistic setting, you'll never lose a lottery again

What do you mean by this?

>>53370397
I fucking hate precursors. They're a cheap cop-out.

It's like saying "wizards did it" or "it's magic, bitches" in fantasy.

Not to mention one of the appeals of a space setting is exploration, and I feel that having someone else having been everywhere first sucks a lot of the fun out of it.

>>53373968
>>53374030

I didn't forget it at all. The Outsiders have incredibly dangerous technology... but they themselves are harmless because they don't even potentially have an interest in making war on anyone.

Any advance is potentially dangerous. The ARM understood this. BUT except in the trivial case where you make "dangerous" equivalent to "advanced", the Outsiders were not dangerous.

>>53370397
I like it more that it takes some time to use FTL. Thousands of years between the achievment of space-flight and FTL.
Make it so that FTL has a great cost, a cost only a Dyson-Sphere can allocate. So you have to create a massive infrastructure to achieve. But when you achieve FTL its basically the key to the cosmos. 2001 style.

>>53375084
>2001 style
That movie doesn't have any FTL travel.

>>53374861
>doesn't understand the word 'theory' is reserved for only the most rigorously tested and validated science
Sorry to hear you're untrained and uneducated, anon.

>>53375179
Stay butthurt.

>>53374111
Good Idea

>>53370397

I really dislike the "Ancient Aliens are responsible for everything" trope. It really devalues the accomplishments of any races in the setting when hardly any of their technology is actually theirs.

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>>53375156
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou6JNQwPWE0

And Beyond.

>>53375318
That's just a fancy light show, there's no evidence in the movie that what we're seeing is some kind of physical travel unlike the books where they directly state that it is, and it takes him to an intergalactic parking lot around a sun with a decaying dyson sphere.

>>53375351
Personally I like to imagine FTL being a Vacuum metastability event where you are in control of writing the laws of the cosmos.
The One in control of the FTL is God.

>>53374484
Moron. We didn't derive c from observing light. c is a product of the geometry of spacetime, and the fact that light travels at that speed is just a consequence of that.

>>53373699
Wormholes obey relativity.

The distance between two points is just smaller.

Alcubierre drives, theoretically work on the same principle. You are just manipulating the space around the ship rather than moving through space itself.

>>53375591
That doesn't make any sense you dumb nigger. Anything inside a bubble would just collapse.

>>53370397
>Do you prefer FTL to be stolen/scavenged from ancient aliens, or just a scientific discovery that any species soon makes after achieving space-flight?
For my own interstellar setting it's a little of both. Only one species ever figured out how to achieve FTL travel on their own, and all other space-faring species either learned it from them, or learned it from another species that did.

>>53375640
What if you could write a transcription machine to translate stuff from the physics outside the bubble to the physics inside?

IRC Greg Egan wrote a novel about it.

>>53375800
>What if I take the relevant features of a false vacuum and put them inside a true (or lower energy false) vacuum?
What's the fucking point of fluffing it as a metastability event then? Just call it the not!warp and be done with it

>>53374281
Aren't the Kzinti fales non-sentiant?

Doesn't the Quantum Eraser probes that particles communicate faster than light, and even show that their information goes back in time?

this thread had such great potential before it degenerated into whiny faggots screaming at each other about not being able to understand relativity.

i personally don't care for the idea of ancient races inventing FTL when nobody else can, but i still love the idea of mysterious ancient races leaving neat ruins behind to explore. exploring the universe wouldn't seem as much fun to me if it were all dead and empty.

>>53376133
No.

Imagine you have a shoebox storing 1 right and 1 left shoe, forming a pair. An assistant takes one shoe out and puts it in another box.

You open the box and get the left shoe; so now you know (and the assistant knows, after you tell him) that the right shoe is in his box. Wew, the knowledge 'teleported' at the speed of conversaton.

>>53374986

>not liking the idea of being Space Indiana Jones going through ancient temples of a long gone race and trying to figure out their secrets nobody has seen for countless aeons

What a fucking pleb. That's like saying why bother travelling because humans have already been everywhere on Earth.

>>53376133

It proves that locality is an illusion.

>>53376192

I'm pretty sure that hidden variables have been debunked.

>>53372605
dayyyyyym

>>53374861
primitive compared to the mk 2 eyeball anon because our tools aren't the be all end all. We can always improve them so that we can learn more about what were looking at. It's one thing to rely on tools to see things we cant see in person but its quite different when you're there yourself.

>>53370397
I prefer there being no FTL and the game being a generational campaign set on a ark-ship or dysonship.

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>>53376291
>not wanting to be the first in all of time to see or do something
>wanting to be second best or worse no matter what you do

That's just sad, honestly.

>>53376729

>not learning from the mistakes of the ancients and becoming superior to them and achieving apotheosis

>>53376729
How many people have become famous for discovering some rock jutting out of the ocean somewhere with no signs of human visitation ever? On the other hand, discover an ancient city or new civilization and you're a fucking hero.

But I'm ok with colonizing space without aliens everywhere:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH3c1QZzRK4
It has its own atmosphere.

>>53376806
>>apotheosis
No.
Your pipe dreams allready costed us milions of lives just last century.

>>53374990
And yet, the Puppeteers used them as a weapon against the kzin, by luring them to sell us the hyperdrive. They're peaceful and friendly, but far from harmless.

>>53375906
Kzintzi females have been genetically engineered to be non-sapient, yes.
However, there are intelligent females bred from genestock from before that happened, as found on the Ringworld and a few other places. There's also a cult of them in Kzintzi society, hiding their intelligence and guiding any sapient females they find to hide it as well.

I suggest reading the Man-Kzin wars series. It#s all available as ebooks now, as is a bunch of the older Known Space stuff. The very oldest hasn't made it there yet, so you're down to finding ex-library books.

>>53374111
Sounds legit.
I can dig it.
Of course, you would need to keep the corridors clear lest they collide with the rapidly expanding ship.
Once you account for that, solid work.
>>53374168
>It's wrong.
You're gonna have to back that up, pilgrim.
It seems perfectly internally consistent.

>>53374885
>Why can't you have different style FTL, each with their own pros and cons? Some sort of wormhole portal thing can be the fastest and safest, but requires gates on each end, so it's mainly between most important worlds. Jump drives would move you equally fast, but you need to be sure there isn't anything where you end up or you'll fuck yourself. Warp/hyper drive would be slower, but more secure. Some interdimensional sub-space drive would be faster, but you're also going blind, as you won't know where you'll end up when you exit.
This shit right here? This is my jam.

>>53373485
I'm dumb communication major, but that's not how they think it works? Why couldn't this be what happens with ftl?

>>53378248
Thanks anon, I'll check em out, I've only read Ringworld and the Ringworld Engineers

>>53379067
I think that might be the same guy as >>53373190, and is comparing it to going faster than the speed of sound. Based on what he's saying, it's like if a fighter jet turned around and shot at his sonic boom. Only instead of sound, it's light

>>53378808
different anon and I also say it is wrong
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPsG8td7C5k

>>53379189
Read the rest of the Ringworld series as well, and the Fleet of Worlds series. Protector is a must-read if you want any of it to make any fucking sense, too.

Be prepared to do some serious digging, especially if you want the sci-fi detective stories.

>>53372377
>but once they figured the physics out they made a practice of selling it to races who were unlikely to ever develop it themselves.
What exactly did the other species give in exchange for the technology?

>>53379506
One, the expanding structure of the ship would remain bonded because the bonds are expanded as well. Within the field that obviously must exist to prevent gravity from crushing an enlarged baby, bond cohesion would naturally be protected as well.
Two, as long as the ship doesn't expand faster than the speed of light, which is impossible as it seems observable, that video does nothing to disprove it.
Three, that guy seemed to have either a booger or a shiny pool of snot in his right nostril for the second half of the video.

>>53379822
but if the ship doesn't expand faster than the speed of light then it isn't travelling faster than light, so yeah other than the magical shrinking ray I see no problem with that

>>53379917
No individual part of the ship is traveling faster than the speed of light relative to the ship itself. It is only traveling faster than the speed of light relative to the earth, and there's loads of shit throughout the cosmos that does that.

>>53379992
light speed is absolute not relative, and no there isn't

>>53380041
>what is the particle horizon

>>53380119
Isn't that like the space expanding? well I guess you could say that the ray does something like that,dunno how that would work with a shrinking space ship, still I wouldn't call it faster than light

>>53379917
I may have mispoke when I said the ship doesn't expand faster than the speed of light.
It's not my theory afterall.

>>53380239
If you reach the destination in less than the number of "years" portion of lightyears between the two destinations without the technology, it is faster than light

>>53380239
Why would a growth ray be limited to matter alone? Rick Moranus may have found a solution to the Big Rip.

>>53380297
it isn't, same reason if you use a wormhole or an alcubierre drive you aren't going faster than light
>>53380313
then shrink the distance between two points in space, now you no longer need a 1UA long ship

>>53380339
By your definition of faster than light, virtually all of the things we hear about in sci fi and popular science described as faster than light aren't actually faster than light.

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>>53370397
C:
So you guys like FTL right, oh we have such wondrous sights to show you

>>53380365
yeah? same that going from the north pole to the south pole in x secs is faster than light but cutting through the earth core taking the same x time isn't FTL

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>>53373547
I always feel like that goes beyond circumventing the problem into making it a redundancy. If you have the ability to just hop dimensions, FTL travel seems trivial at that point. Couldn't you just ignore space travel at that point and just jump to a dimension where man never evolved and colonize those Earths/Solar Systems?

The only thing I'd insist on with FTL travel is that it only works at extreme distances and doesn't interact with normal space, or even itself, so you don't run into weird science projects from the players.

>>53372275

Try playing with only hyperdrives if you want for a different game experience entirely. When you have choke points the zone control tactics get interesting.

>>53380415
There's no guarantee that such a dimension exists

>>53380549
There's not a lot of alternatives, really. Unless we do make FTL travel possible. If we can make the ability to travel back and forth between dimensions in the case of it being used to get around FTL, it also suggests we can use probes to scout huge numbers of dimensions for a possible, literal, second Earth. The no humans bit is just to be humane. We could still totally colonize an Earth inhabited by humans in caves. They'll probably think we're Gods or something in our magic sky chariots, or Aliens if we show up in their version of the 1950s.

The idea of an interdimensional human empire of a million slightly different variations of Earth is a bit boring for a setting, but, if we can hop dimensions but not travel faster than light, it's a more sensible conclusion compared to colonies spread light years apart.

>>53370397

It's a discovery only made by some species, while others never really understand it but learn to copy and use it.

>>53370397

FTL is basically magic, so I prefer it to be literally magic. Specifically, I prefer it to be the "higher dimensions accessible by certain minds distorting our local laws of physics" style of magic. Usually with some Lovecraftian twists.

>>53370397
I think having the FTL scavenged from ancient aliens allows for a degree of mysticism and mystery to be present in a genre that otherwise lacks it.

If you need an excuse for some weird bullshit to happen, you can always source some really impressive ancient alien technology. A way to make this technology seem relevant and impressive is to make it the source of one of the most important technologies in universe, FTL.

>>53379812
I know they got most of Triton to use as a vacation spot. The rest was probably credit for information brokering.