MTG LEGACY GENERAL: HORRIBLE CANCER EDITION

>>53349026
Deathrite Shaman. It's not that the card is overly powerful, it's that it homogenizes a large swathe of the decks in the format to a point that when you opponent goes Underground Sea/Trop -> Deathrite you can often name +75% of the cards in their deck. DRS and the decks it facilitates are boring to play against, they are literally the most milquetoast deck to play in the format.

>>53349026
Chalice will always be my hated.

>>53349026
I dislike Abrupt Decay, but I genuinely hate Council's Judgement and the way it gets around hexproof/shroud.

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>>53350157
On the other hand it's 3 mana in a format where there is A FUCKING TRUE-NAME NEMESIS WHAT THE FUCK WERE THEY THINKING?

>>53349155
Really? I think it's the opposite actually, there are a ton of different decks that can go usea into deathrite, you don't know if they are on a delver variant, a midrange deck, something slower and more control-like, or even a combo deck like aluren. The card has such a high power level on its own that it forces decks to play it, even if they have to go out of their way.

>>53350300
>True-Name Nemesis

This would probably get my vote. I see it's place in multiplayer, but in one-on-one games it's really dumb and doesn't belong.

Also now that Miracles is dead, I hope they unban Balance.

>>53350500
>The card has such a high power level on its own that it forces decks to play it, even if they have to go out of their way.

This is basically what I'm saying, it homogenizes the format into B/G/X, and most B/G/X decks play a small handful of cards because they are the generic pushed cards that wizards has shit out over the past couple of year for those colors (Leovold, TNN, Decay, ect.) in addition to the tradition format all stars.

>you don't know if they are on a delver variant, a midrange deck, something slower and more control-like, or even a combo deck like aluren.

The problem is that the BUG midrange/control/combo decks share the same shell, they are pretty damn similar, they are all going to have the basic shell of:
19-22 Lands
4x DRS
3-4x Hymn
3-4x Force
4x Brainstorm
3-4x Ponder
3-4x Fatal Push
1-3x Abrupt decay
1-2x Leovold
1-2x JTMS
1-2x LoTV
You see the issue? They could be playing BUG Delver or BUG Control or BUG Midrange, it's pretty immaterial to the backbone that makes up 70-75% of these decks, the 25-30% not represented in that list is just what determines the mode of victory for the deck.

>>53350881
Oh gee, Are you telling me the BUG is now the new miracles? Oh boy, who could have guessed.

And btw, you could say the same things just about any other net deck. Storm variants ain't that different to each other. You know 100% of the cards in opponent deck when they play turn 1 mountain into goblin guide.

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>>53351091
>Comparing two combo decks using the same mechanic to a large number of decks doing different things with the same shell.

Please share more of your magical insights into the format senpai, you seem VERY knowledgeable.

Would the old extended counter slivers be competitive in legacy enviroment?

>>53350803
They are never ever going to unban Balance

How good are goblins in this day and age?

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>>53351228
>Abloobloo the post
Look at me, I can shitpost as well.

Just tell me how many decks there are using _that_ BUG shell doing different thing something else than depriving your cards and beating you in the face with creature X.

>>53351767
Considering it's almost impossible to win it with BUG decks, pretty ok?

This formats been ruined by a reluctance to ban OP cards I would say. It took how many years to ban Miracles? Bans are key to a healthy and stable format and well yes they do cause a bit of uproar they are needed.

Ban Deathrite Shaman, Ponder, Gitaxian Probe, Brainstorm, Chalice of the Void, Lions Eye Diamond, and Lotus Petal

>>53351890
>Ban Deathrite Shaman, Ponder, Gitaxian Probe, Brainstorm, Chalice of the Void, Lions Eye Diamond, and Lotus Petal

Might aswell ban Force of Will then

>>53351890
Great idea! Ban any card that has deck presence over 25% namely brainstorm, DRS and FoW, then keep banning every combo that you can't stop without those cards. Keep banning until nobody plays the game anymore.

>>53351890
Gr8 B8 m8, I would r8 8/8 but it's just fucking bad

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>>53351825
No need to get buttblasted anon, I'm sure mummy is very proud of you for being able to shitpost all on your own :^)

FYI, I play R/W Painter and RG Lands. I've got pretty good to even matchups against BUG decks. Only decks that are truly difficult are fast combo with those two.

>>53352102
>>53352135
>>53352140
All of those except DRS are already restricted in Vintage. They are problematic cards.

>>53352252
Vintage and legacy are different beasts, comparing them is not fair

Ill even give a solid reasoning for every ban
>DRS
Way too powerful and ubiquitous, warps the fornat heavily to play BGx
>Ponder
Fuels fast combo decks and makes games play out realtively the same
>Brainstorm
The most powerful card in Legacy bar none, if you arent playing this you are playing wrong. Why this wasnt banned a long time ago baffles me.
>Chalice
Punishes decks for playing the game
>LED, Petal
Fast mana should be discouraged

>>53352277
They do follow a similar ban list though and besides strange restrictions like Merchants Scroll I feel Legacy would be better having the cards restricted in Vintage be banned here.

>>53352299
>They do follow a similar ban list though and besides strange restrictions like Merchants Scroll
Because Merchant Scroll = Get Force of Will while at the same can be used for Force of Will?

>>53351890
I hate playing against DRS, but I wouldn't advocate for its ban unless it gets quite a bit more ubiquitous. Banning the rest of the stuff on the list would hobble or destroy most of the decks in Legacy currently. Just out of curiosity, do you consider Dark Ritual bannable under the same criteria as Petal/LED? Why ban chalice when Trinishpere/Blood Moon do very similar things? Are they bannable? What about Show and Tell? I guess what I'm getting at is that if you start down this rabbit hole, your going to have to ban an enormous number of cards to balance the formats after the initial cataclysmic bans your suggesting.

>>53352400
The way I see it is you either ban all of it or none of it. Middle way is ought to be trash.

>>53352400
No just those cards. Ritual at least requires you to put in mana to get mana out. LED is much more powerful. Show and Tell is easy to play around and more fair if it cant be powered out easy with a lotus petal.

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just picked up two plateaus and two magus of the moon for d&t. magus goes in to replace palace jailer and one sanctum prelate in the main, plateau replaces two flagstones of trokair since i'm no longer playing cataclysm in the 75.

>>53351736
Not really.

Merfolk does everything Slivers can and better, and is only 1 colour.

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>>53352299
Merchant Scroll gets Recall, Force, Gush, Dig. Since people already Tutor for Recall all the time we don't need an unrestricted 2 Mana Tutor to the hand.

Please learn more about Vintage before comparing it to Legacy.

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I think I'd have to basically rip off Lands to make these two work. Probably throw in Raven's Crime and Smallpox or Hymn to Tourach. Maybe Sphere of Resistance instead.

>>53353044
I think oppression could be fine in a pox shell. Desolation seems like it would hurt you too much.

Any Collected Company decks in Legacy?

>>53351890
Might as well just ban Legacy from competitive play.

>>53354805
Make one.

>>53352752
Give me this in English immediately. Or at least a link to the Booru where there's a translation.

>>53354805
CoCo is outclassed in speed and power by the tribal decks and ones that do CoCo better, namely Aluren, Goblins, and Elves.

>>53354805
It's probably playable in a junk maverick shell with DRS and KotR.

>Ban Miracles
>Delver, the deck doing just as well as Miracles, takes over
Who would've guessed?

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>>53356936
>I'm still butthurt because they banned my deck

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>>53349026
The cancer killing the game

>>53351890
>Wouldn't Legacy be fun if we tried to turn it into Modern?

Unrelated but that captcha was a click on all images with cars, verify once none have them... and had about 10 images of cars in a row in one spot, some of which were already seen in the slideshow. Did it fuck up a little or are they just making them as annoying as possible?

>>53357524
>we're soon gonna make you pay 5 mana for a vanilla 1/1! Standard is sure looking up huh guys?
>wait why is everyone moving to older formats, well I guess we better stop supporting those formats until they're forced to go back to Standard
I hate Wizards so God damn much.

>>53356936
If you niggas didn't spend two hours with the top it wouldnt be completely fine

>>53353614
With desolation I was thinking adding Crucible of Worlds along with some things that let me play more than 1 land a turn.

I love UR Delver and Burn. Fireblasting people with Force of Will back up produces infinite salt.

>>53350300
They were thinking it could be a cool political creature for commander players. Why would anyone play it anywhere else? Lol

Does it make me a sociopath if I unironically enjoy playing this deck in legacy?

If nothing else, playing it has proven to me that legacy players don't know what the fuck an activated ability is.

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
4 Trinisphere
4 Restoration Angel
1 Baneslayer Angel
3 Exalted Angel
4 Aven Mindcensor
4 Moat
4 Oblivion Ring
4 Suppression Field
3 Karakas
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Flagstones of Trokair
6 Plains
4 Armageddon
SB: 1 Crucible of Worlds
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 4 Rest in Peace
SB: 4 Wrath of God

>>53362004

Suppression Field is great for White Stompy decks. 4 Moat is too rich for my blood, though.

>>53362158
I mean there are BUG decks that literally can't beat Moat game 1 outside of Jace

>>53351890
Fuck you. I miss Miracles, and I think the format is much worse without the deck, desu.

>>53362362
Miracles the deck was fine, but bad miracles players who took 3 hours to play a single game before even getting to sideboarding were not.

There are far more bad miracles players than good ones in legacy, so it had to go.

>>53358068
This is so stupidly out of touch. The problem with standard for years has been that they keep pushing creatures while the answers keep getting nerfed.

>>53362004
Not really. Stax is a deck people should know how to play against.

>>53363029
Not him but standard is underpowered as fuck. Liliana, the Last Hope being ~$30 should be a testament to that; it's essentially worthless outside of standard and won't see play beyond the kitchen table when it rotates out. Anything with a decent effect has a CMC of like, 5-6. Hell, my ho-hum casual modern mill deck could stomp the shit out of any tier 1 standard deck.

>>53363862
Wat, Last Hope sees notable Modern play. Not sure what rock you're living under saying she's only in Standard.

>>53349026
I would have banned Chalice before Top.

>>53364358
Chalice was good at fighting the Miracles Menace though.

>>53364074
>notable Modern play
Like, as an optional 1 of in a single deck, compare that to bolt pls

>>53362004
I've never understood how someone couldn't know what an activated ability was. It's not hard.

>>53365214
(not the other guy) Sure Last Hope is not that interesting outside of Standard, but if a card needs Bolt levels of popularity to be considered "notable", you must be disappointed quite often by new editions...

>>53362004
can you explain your choice of angels?
any reason you're not running linvala?

>>53362004

>Trinisphere

How does this work with alternate casting costs?

>>53368268
I can't actually think of something last hope does that something else wouldn't do better or should rightly take the slot of something else in any non-standard deck.

>>53369238
>Trinisphere
The way it's phrased, you have to pay at least 3 even for alternate costs like Ogreload, Madness and so on. Even with Omniscience or As Foretold.
Like, a FoW would cost either 3UU or 3+1 life+1 blue card.

I don't know if it applies to copies (like Storm, or what you get with Fork) tho.

>>53369272
Sure, I just meant that taking Bolt is a pretty high standard for card popularity.

>>53369284
Oh, sure, I'm not him by the way. I was just pondering why anyone would fill a maindeck slot with Last Hope.

>>53369238
i consult this when in doubt.
>http://mtg.summoning.ru/cards_eng/Trinisphere.shtml
There's also a pretty good page on blood moon

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>>53369276
>Ogreload

>>53349026
Is Draw Go a bug in the game?
There aren't competitive Draw Go decks in Vintage, Legacy, Modern or Duel Commander. That shit can only exist when it has an inherently unfair advantage, ie. Standard enviroments with super-resilent threats and an over-abundance of answers (Morphling, CAW Blade, Esper Sphinx Control), or they have a 10 life safety net like in Online's 1v1 Commander leagues. If the opponent isn't handicapped from the start, Draw Go crumbles against almost every other archetype, being unable to outpace aggro, out-maneuver tempo, out-value midrange or defeat more proactive control/prison decks like Pox, MUD or 12Post. It can only beat combo.

How can this shit be so many people's favourite "archetype"?

>>53369276
Copies are not cast so it doesn't.

>>53369798
>That shit can only exist when it has an inherently unfair advantage

Can't that be said about any archetype? Monored only exists when wizards prints good one drops and burn that goes face, combo only exists when they print efficient ways to cheat fatties into play, etc. the thing is, wizards has this notion that draw-go is an unfun archetype, so they haven't purposefully printed anything that facilitates that type of deck in a while, while strengthening the other ways to play magic

>>53370530
>combo only exists when they print efficient ways to cheat fatties into play
Wait wat?

>>53370582
The best deck in standard right now uses artherworks marvel to cast ulamog as early as turn 4

>>53369798
Nigga Please. UW Landstill is a perfectly competitive draw go deck in vintage. It's unfortunately now basically the final holdout as far as traditional draw go goes in magic. It also got a lot better with the probe and gush bans that just happened.

>>53369798
>>53371159
That's also not into account that control in legacy is currently in flux, there is very likely going to be a draw go Landstill deck that gets settled on as the format gets solved.

>>53369798
Two things happened to make draw-go not nearly as playablr anymore:

First, Wizards stopped printing cheap, unconditional counterspells. You could actually stay on top of your opponent when you could curve out a force spike, counterspell, forbid, etc.

Second, creatures became more efficient. A giant threat wouldn't show up until later in the fame. Now, we can sneak a death's shaddow or tarmogoyf past some countermagic and win in 2 or 3 turns.

>>53370940
>Standard
Nobody cares

Sorry to post such a basic question, but I'm building a sideboard against Charbelcher/ANT decks that exist in my meta, and couldn't I use Silence/Orim's Chant to interrupt them mid-combo, while they're building mana?

>>53371329
yeah but why would you that instead of casting flusterstorm or force of will?

>>53371329
Why play counterspells when you can just play 3 turn clocks? Oh wait......

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>>53358068
>>we're soon gonna make you pay 5 mana for a vanilla 1/1! Standard is sure looking up huh guys?
uwot

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>>53372885
Yeah they kind of missed how pushed creatures are. It's spells that are shat on, if the fictional example was a 5 mana conditional counterspell it would've made more sense.

>>53372885
>what is exaggeration

>>53373088
>exaggeration
>a statement that couldn't be further from the truth
there's supposed to be an element of truth to an exaggeration not just outright retardation

>>53373180
Okay, maybe that even though they're pushing a creaturefest, the creatures are totally underwhelming, vanilla garbage that'd get stomped by any mediocre modern deck?

>>53373316
>standard is a less powerful format than modern
wow almost as if thats by design
you are going to have to post an example of vanilla garbage

>>53373361
>the best of the best standard decks get stomped by mediocre modern decks
>thats by design!
>wait, why are people flocking to older formats?

And that pic above is a great example of vanilla garbage. Ooh, some counters, totally not timmy-tier.

>>53373571
would you consider goyf to also be timmy tier?
also you would have to be some kind of idiot to think that a standard environment is ever going to be a similar power level to any format that also includes cards that are in standard in its card pool
standard is being abandoned due to homogeneity, not because its not modern

>>53362004
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?25474-I-m-a-Juggernaut-gt-Drop-gt-SCG-Atlanta-with-M0AT_ST0MPY
best tournament report ever. please tell me all your Suppression Fields are Japanese.

>>53373724
Standard is being abandoned because it has the depth of a kiddie pool, is underpowered so the cards you get for standard will undoubtedly become worthless when they rotate out, and there's little variety in viable strategy. If it was just homogeneity, people wouldn't leave standard to go into modern with it also being so aggro obsessed. The difference is that there's depth to be had in modern while standard is about as deep as tapping to swing for damage and a dash of removal.

>>53370530
Draw-go is an unfun deck style and U is the most boring color with the depth of a puddle ironically enough.

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>>53374318
>Draw-go is an unfun deck style

>>53374090
Man, I just wish we could go back to mirage-tempest standard in paper. If they aren't going to reprint better sets, just recycle old ones with killer standard environments.

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>>53362391
>Miracles the deck was fine

damn the format is so diverse now, loving it
>without Miracles there will be only combo I swear gais

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2017-05-22

>>53375390
>http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2017-05-22
>REINARDBR (2ND PLACE)
>nothing but red jank and some hateful artifacts
is this a real deck?

>>53375639
It's a very real deck. A good chunk of the format just dies to Chalice or Blood moon or Trinisphere if they come down on turn 1.

>>53375639
Nigga you never seen Stompy?

>>53375705
whats the deck called?

>>53375799
Usually known as dragon stompy, blood moon stompy, or big red. Sometimes big red is used to refer to mono-red sneak attack which is a similar deck, but more of a combo deck than a prison deck.

>>53375639
You can literally make a stompy deck out of any color, those artifacts, and whatever other junk you'd like to include. Popularly people go red for blood moon and you get dragon stompy. Go black for discard and you get demon stompy. Blue for force of will/brainstorm and you get Sea Stompy. White for most/suppression field and you get Soldier/angel stompy. you could probably make a green version too.

>>53377399
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/snake-stompy/
:^)

>>53377510
>sabertooth cobra

You cheeky little shit

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>>53375639
>Sin Prodder
>Hazoret
>Quicksmith Rebel
Man that looks fun

>>53369798
>Is Draw Go a bug in the game?
Considering wizards purposefully printed cards to encourage draw go for several years... No.
>>53374318
Instant speed draw spells always have been and always will be cancer though. Structure and force//Jushi blue//post invasion psychatog are the most fun control decks not counting prison that I've played in standard.
If you don't like playing against draw engine-go than I don't understand how you enjoy playing the game.

>>53369798
>Draw Go Bug
im listening

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>>53378565
>If you don't like playing against draw engine-go than I don't understand how you enjoy playing the game.

>>53378985
>tfw you are a nazi and you also play dredge
Theres nothing I cannot stand behind in that image

>>53378985
fuck you, Miracles was Hitlers Germany

>>53379630
And I fucking loved it

>>53375390
>without Miracles
>there literally is a Miracles deck in the top 8

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>>53349026
So, after miracles ban, is time to get waifustompy back?

>>53380748
Do you use the white gearhulk now instead of cataclysm?

>>53381074
i think is a good idea, but i don't have any to try

Been out of the loop for a while, all I know is that miracles is no longer a thing and DDFT guy is sad that top is ban.
DDFT guy mind posting your current list? I'm gonna pick up Doomsday as my next deck and was curious to try it out online

>>53381438
He's had some pretty spicy lists since the ban. Including a Nic Fit one.

>>53381465
Any idea why he was sad over top ban? Did he add it recently to his list?
IIRC he said something about DDFT being ass now, which is shame. Might pick up a different combo dick then like SI

>>53381505
Top was a pretty big part of what made DDFT tick, wasn't it? They had all sorts of sweet tricks with it. We'll get proper answers when he checks the thread next I guess.

>>53381547
>>53381505
Top wass basically the 2nd most important card in the deck and has been a 4-of in lists since the earliest incarnations of the deck. It was used in piles, it gave the deck long game grinding/digging power, and made the deck great at fighting through discard. Its main function was as a cantrip that you could invest mana in early, and then use later to draw into a pile.

Current list: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/current-ddft/
Other lists I've tested that had some merit:
Doomsday/ANT hybrid: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/dant-1/
Doomsday with Veteran Explorers: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/bug-explorer-doomsday/

spicy brews >>53381822
be honest, do you think DDFT/DD has a place in legacy now?

>>53380575
Heh, it's not like miracles cards won't work without top. It's just that whole package is worse without it, because of cycling and free draw. People seem to miss that real offender of miracles mechanic is brainstorm.

>>53381957
Honestly I don't know the answer to that yet. A lot of people would have said it didn't even before the top ban. I would have disagreed then, but now I don't know. I'd like to think it does, and my current list has been testing well. At any rate it's still fun and other decks aren't as fun (for me) so I'm gonna keep playing it.

>>53382868
The deck's a treasure and part of why I'm still so mad about the Top ban

>>53382916
best part is Miracles doesn't even seem to have died due to the ban. Because Top wasn't the problem.

>>53383164
It just felt like Wizards wanted Top gone and Miracles was the excuse

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>>53383245
well ye

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>>53383164
from mkm tourney
also in past 2weeks miracles on mtgtop8 doesnt show up

>>53383937
Looking at the "UWx control" starts listing Miracles decks pre-Top ban

>>53369238
Apply alternate cost, then cost increases, then cost decreases, then trinisphere. Nothing escapes the trinisphere

>>53387487
Well delve and convoke do now

>>53388260
Yeah but "nothing escapes the trinisphere except for delve and convoke and other abilities which dont actually decrease the cost of the spell but just give you a different way to pay" doesnt roll off the tongue.

What do you guys think the next overpowered hatebear will be? This is my prediction:

Soldier of Fuckmylife 1WW
Creature - human soldier
First Strike
Noncreature spells with CMC 2 or less can't be cast.
1/1

>>53388478
Not bad. But they seem to love broken non-symmetrical effects, so I'd say "opponents can't cast non creature spells with CMC 2 or less"

>>53388478
Sanctum Prelate is already sorta that.

Reminder that there's nothing really stopping Delver from taking over the format now. It was as prevalent as Miracles before the ban, with Miracles being one of its worst matchups.

>>53388840
Youre right I made it too balanced. That's not the wizards way.

>>53389020
You forgot to print 200 completely worthless cards in the same set as a couple of pushed mythic rares so that when people start playing the mythic rares outside of Standard you can talk about how good the new set is because people are using cards from it in eternal formats.

>>53389171
I HOPE YOU HAVE A CAREER IN MARKETING SON BECAUSE YOU REALLY NAILED THIS ONE.

Is Kaladesh the new Urza's legacy?

I feel that the only things that currently need banned are black/white cleric decks and everything that deals damage in poison counters, shit is brutal.

>>53383887

I said some time ago that the way they worded the announcement suggests very much that they wanted Top out and didn't care about the fact that it was only a problem because of Miracles. Nor about the fact that Miracles was a problem.

>>53389431

Not really sure what you're getting at here.

>>53388478

Your Mom [W]

"Definitely not a Tarmogoyf."

69/69

>>53389015

I think people are making too much of the rise in Grix Delver since the ban. Sure, the deck is the real deal, but it was already the real deal before the ban. I don't think Miracles alone was holding the deck down. Now that such a large portion of the pre-ban top-8s were of an archetype that doesn't exist anymore, the runners-up take a larger portion of the total. Also, I think a lot of people who were playing Miracles have probably switched to other well-performing decks.

3x Birds of Paradise
4x Brainstorm
4x Daze
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Force of Will
2x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Ponder
3x Quirion Ranger
4x Root Maze
3x Savannah
4x Scryb Ranger
4x Stasis
4x Tropical Island
3x Tundra
4x Windswept Heath

Looking for improvements. Maybe Enlightened tutor? I feel like many times I can easily ramp into 4-5 mana fast but lack anything playable around that mana.

>>53390390

Immediate impressions:

No Vets or Cabal Therapies?

I don't think Stasis really fits well with the rest of the list for a few reasons. Stasis is a great card for locking people down, but you're going to need a constant stream of blue mana to keep it going. I can see some synergy in the list for that, but I'm not sure the mana dudes are as useful for powering Stasis as they are for powering out big Nic Fit dudes. (Another reason to run Veteran Explorer is that it ramps twice as hard and finds basic lands, which are really tough to deal with for decks not running Choke or Rishadan Port—I'd definitely run it if you want to hard-cast Emrakul.) Also, keep in mind that you're effectively Time Walking yourself if you choose to let Stasis die.

A couple of other things occur to me: the major advantage to running white in this list is that it gives you access to Swords to Plowshares and Gaddock Teeg. As I mentioned, cutting black leaves you without Cabal Therapy, which is one of the most powerful disruption cards in Legacy.

It feels like the list is trying to combine blue card selection with a Maverick shell; the problem is that the stuff that keeps Maverick viable isn't in your list (hatebears, primarily), and I think you're not running enough creatures that "do stuff." So if you want to run the accelerators you've got, I would choose between GSZ and the blue cantrips—as you said, there should be other ramp targets in the deck.

I would choose between cantrips and GSZ, switch out the Stases, Hierarchs, and Birds, and add Cabal Therapy and more 4–6-cmc creatures.

Have you tested the list yet?

>>53390924
Well I can pretty well get a lock going turn 3 but the times I cant find the right cards the cards seem a bit underwhelming. I have thougth of adding maybe more disruption or pillow fort type cards to play time for the lock.

>>53391074

Yeah, one big problem in Stasis builds is that the card is—by nature—zero-sum. So unless you have ways to make more than one mana using creatures, you're probably going to have a difficult time powering out enough stuff to get the kill without sacrificing Stasis.

There's no reason you couldn't run more lock-pieces, but I don't think that's really going to take you in the direction you want to go with accelerators and cantrips.

It feels like the deck is trying to do too many things at once. The major problem I see in it is that it either ramps into Emrakul or it just plays Stasis and sits on it for a while. It's good that it runs permission, but I don't think you want that much permission without some kind of payoff, and stalling until you hit Emrakul doesn't feel very reliable to me.

A couple of things to consider:
—Stasis skips all untap steps. So if you don't hit a land every turn, even with a card like Quirion Ranger, you won't be netting any mana and you won't be able to attack. Daze is a bit counterproductive here, because it's just going to stall you out at a lower land count.
—Green Sun's Zenith is one of the best toolbox cards in the format. You're not running anything to toolbox out with it, though, because it needs to hit green creatures, and your only ones are mana guys.
—I'm not sure Root Maze really does anything Stasis doesn't do better, but again, I don't really feel like Stasis is going to do what you want anyway.
—It takes a lot of practice to learn, but Cabal Therapy is INSANE. Cabal-Explorer can lead to utterly busted nonsense like T1 Therapy; T2 Explorer, flashback Therapy, Explorer, Therapy, flashback Therapy; T3 Grave Titan. Not a common scenario, but a really, really busted one. I would strongly consider switching from Bant to Bug, especially if you're not running cards like Thalia, Swords, or Gaddock Teeg.

Hope I'm not coming across too harshly. Best of luck in testing, and I'm interested to see where this goes.

>>53391902
Im currently running a blue version with Stasis and Black vise as the win condition. I put on the lock with Forsaken city + Stasis.

I wanted to try the blue green version cause you can put up a complete lock if opponent has tapped out their mana. Stasis and root maze lock can be all the time kept up with quirion ranger + mana dork for example. Plan with emrakul was to be able to setup a graveyard shuffle somehow and win in the end by decking. I guess this version could also run the black vise as kill con. Chain of vapor or Venser could be used to blink back the stasis maybe at the end step so you I can gain a untap.

>>53381505
>might pick up a different combo dick like SI

One of us one of us. Do iiiiiit

>>53392081

That might work. I would probably restructure the deck a fair bit to make it work, though. Also, bear in mind that Wasteland will cause problems for that strategy.

>>53381505
>(BUG Pod) Nic Fit

Yo, I was thinking of going BUG Nic Fit. What creatures did you end up choosing to ramp into? Trying to find good BUG midrange creatures has been a real chore.

>>53349155
>What cards/decks/players do you think are horrible cancer?
>Name: Big Red

It's funny coming from the guy who plays a deck that just shits out lock pieces and dumb standard cards with sol lands

>>53375390
>no control
>diverse
kys, Mark

Where did all these banlist shitposters come from? This thread is turning into the Modern thread.

>>53394618
>Where did all these banlist shitposters come from? This thread is turning into the Modern thread.

Lel, yeah it's pretty bad. Banlist shitposters are the worst part of this thread, but what's even worse is when people neglect the easiest thing to do: don't feed the trolls.

>>53394618
I think they're here because of the recent major ban. They come in from wherever to see what legacy players think of it and make incendiary comments to get responses. Honestly I don't mind. This thread has a tendency to die like the format kek and anything that keeps the thread bumped doesn't bother me too much.

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>>53394163

>>53394163
Sol lands and dumb spells are fun though.

>>53394356
the most played deck is miracles you retard

>>53397922
You seem to be a bit out of touch, friend.

>>53395378
Word

>>53397721
I can see how it's fun in the sense that your entire game is predetermined and you can just randomly steal wins without even trying

>>53398586
I'm gonna try out Unexpected Miracles for this week's FNM if I'm able to get a few of the pieces together

>>53394163
Lol if thats your opinion man, thats your opinion. I was pretty drunk when I made that rant, so its pretty hyperbolic, but I do generally feel that way. I don't hate BUG/DRS decks because of their power, it's because they are not very interesting to play against and increasingly ubiquitous in my meta along with storm. Also, why would the deck that punishes greedy manabases and homogenization be cancer? Wouldn't it be the other way around?

> dumb standard cards
Griselbrand and Emrakul = Standard Cards? The only standard card I'm currently running in my list is Chanda, ToD. Card is the real deal in legacy sol land shells. Painter was running her as a 3-4x pre top ban and Goblin Stompy runs her as a 2-3x. I tested out Combustible Gearhulk for a while, but the card wasn't good enough to justify slots, so I'm back on the good ol' Godo+Batterbuddy plan.

>>53397721
This guy gets it.

>>53392371
Heh kidd, I've played SI for a long time.
Just disassembled it, kinda regret it desu since that deck was fun
>>53394135
Gravy Train, Swagtusk, Prime Time possibly. Regular BUG nic fit looks a bit like shardless bug pod is more fun :3

>>53399536
>I don't hate BUG/DRS decks because of their power, it's because they are not very interesting to play against

Neither is a T1 Sol Land + Chalice of the Void, but hey, that's Legacy sometimes.
I find it tinge ironic that you're complaining about greedy mana bases when, instead, you simply run a broken mana base of 2 mana producing lands.

Sol Lands create a homogenization of their decks too - you almost always run chalice, you almost always run trinisphere, in general, there are lock pieces aplenty.

>Griselbrand and Emrakul = Standard Cards
I've come across people running Combustible. I think there was even a 5-0 recently with a mythic from Amongst. I'm basing some of my observations off of that.

>>53399302
I guess a lot of "Stompy" decks are really all-in on their opener and being able to slam more threats than your opponents have counters. Running Chalice instead of vantrips makes varience more of an issue, but raw card draw like Dack helps a lot.

Banning Deathrite Shaman was ridiculous in Modern and would be especially ridiculous in Legacy. If you didn't also ban Brainstorm.

You can nerf Deathrite Shaman and Brainstorm into the ground by simply banning fetch lands.

Of course then everyone will just play Big Red, Eldrazi and Lands variants, wherein we enter an ice age of lockpiece fuckfests.
On the bright side, entire matches will probably only take 20 minutes.

>>53400596
>and increasingly ubiquitous
You keep ignoring this part. How often do you think you'd play against BUG decks on MTGO in a league? How often would you play against ANY stompy variant? My guess is in that league the EV for BUG decks is between 1 and 2. I would estimate the EV for stompy decks is far less than 1. Eldrazi Stompy is the most played variant and sits at around 2% online meta share for example. It's being boring AND ubiquitous that makes me dislike DRS and by extention the BUG decks due to how often I have to play against them.

>complaining about greedy mana bases
I'm not complaining about them at all, I'm saying its healthy to have a set of decks that preys on them. No strategy in legacy should be without a natural predator. Just because one type of deck preys on another doesn't make it cancer, it leads to a more diverse metagame. Same goes for decks that have low curves, play creature swarms, rely on countermagic, etc.

>homogenization
Most decks are homogenized to a large extent, blue decks almost all play brainstorm and force, does that mean they are boring to play against? My issue with the DRS decks is only tangentially about homogenization, its mainly about having to play a very homogenous group of deck over and over again.

>broken mana base of 2 mana producing lands
As far as the sol lands go, yes, they are very good. Are they broken? I would argue no, they impose some very detrimental deck building decision that drastically impact the consistency of any deck using them. You basically trade consistency for raw power.

>I've come across people running Combustible. I think there was even a 5-0 recently with a mythic from Amongst. I'm basing some of my observations off of that.

People try weird jank all the time, that sounds like a pretty spicy list that did well. The stompy list are flexible enough that you can get really weird with your flex slots.

>>53400596
I would also point out that DRS is currently 4th most played card in legacy, being in 35-40% of decks depending on whose numbers you go by.

>>53349026
I really don't like playing against stifle. I just find it so unfun especially when coupled with land destruction. I see the appeal but I just hate the playing against the card

How do I make Derevi viable? I want Derevi control. I was looking at bare minimum core at something like this:

4x Stasis
4x Derevi
4x GSZ
4x Enlightened tutor
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will

Probably have to up the counterspell route a little bit and include Stops. Maybe get noble hierarch as mana elf? Any idea how to strongly sustain the lock? I don't care how shit the list will be, I just want to get this janky as optimal as possible.

Anybody else generally dislike bans on principle?

I like never having to face Miracles again, but seriously, that genuinely constituted a special case. I wouldn't like to see anything else go.

>>53402969
There has to be pretty damn good reason to ban a card. It has to be demented or particularly problematic card, such as top in case of players slowing down because of it. If you start to ban cards just because they are powerful, you have to either ban all of them with same criteria or ban none of them. Otherwise I feel like banlist will be half-assed and will result in unfair bullshit. Also when you ban all good versatile cards, why would anyone play anything, but synergetic tribal like linear decks?

>>53402475

Derevi's pretty vulnerable. I can see the appeal if you have access to a command zone, but in Legacy, you'll have to deal with the fact that it's easily removed by a lot of disruption that already sees play simply because there's no built-in defense against, say, Abrupt Decay.

Going from your (partial) list, I'd throw in Mother of Runes and Ponder for starters. Also, if you're running 4x GSZ, I really don't think a quad of Derevi is worth it.

>>53349026
I hate Leovold.

>>53402969
Really depends on the ban. I'd like to see Miracles without terminus first. Do you mean a lot of things should come off the ban list?

>>53402969
I'm not a fan, and like them less the older the format. The tools are generally available to answer most problem cards, or at least lessen the advantage gained by them. Vintage restricting I can get behind more than outright bans... except when we're talking about something truly bonkers like Power or Necropotence. For bans aimed at Miracles for being too dominant I'd have preferred Terminus (1mana boardwipe that gets past hexproof/indestructible? What?) or Counterbalance (half of what made Top spinning take so long) to go since they're not used outside of the deck, while the Top ban slapped Painter/Nic Fit/DDFT and probably some others.

>>53403042
Really good point. In a way mother of runes seems very mandatory for this kind of tactic. I also forgot winter orb from the main list, but I'm not sure if that's what I'm looking for with stasis/tutor build. It might be better to play Stasis+Winter orb instead of tutoring and focus GSZ for Derevi. Also this kind of GSZ build would allow running toolbox creatures, which is great considering I'm offering a lock piece and going into creature attack/lock opponent out.

>>53403193
Have you looked into Nyx Fit? Seems to be roughly the kind of thing you're thinking of

>>53403251
Or wait, maybe not. I think I got mixed up somewhere and haven't slept.

>>53403297
I was wondering how Nic build would be similiar. What I'm really worried about here is how do I manage the matchups. Am I really going to straight up lose against combo with this and is it any good against strategies like delver or elves.

>>53402969
I agree, I hate seeing bans in legacy unless something is truly over the top broken or dominant. The last few bans were actually pretty reasonable up until the SDT ban. I don't think too many people would argue that Cruise, Dig, and Mental Misstep were good for the format.

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>>53402969
>>53403557
It's a good design philosophy to ban as few things as possible. Bans should be seen as a last resort to fix a metagame; it's better to let things naturally adjust if possible.

I feel like every time we see a ban, in any format, the first response (here) is usually anger, followed by clamoring for more bans as soon as a new deck is on top. It doesn't even matter if the ban has only been in place for only a month.

I usually say "unban Mind Twist" but with BUG all over the place I don't know if I really want that right now

>>53403557
>>53403818

Yeah, I generally feel the same way. Wizards shouldn't be using bans to control formats; they should be more careful when they're putting together new sets and designing new cards, then banning things when they become obviously detrimental to formats. Maybe that's too difficult a task for them to handle properly, but I can't escape the feeling that they regularly fail to learn from their mistakes.

Again, I can't escape the feeling that the Top ban had far too much to do with their general dislike of the card and far too little to do with Miracles's repeated circumventing of literally every new printing that might have put a lid on it. Maybe this speaks to their picking up on the fact that the deck was too poweful and couldn't be answered realistically, but given that they banned the card that was least offensive on its own and had so much crossover value, I'm not optimistic.

The fact that the last time we had this many bans in Standard was in Mirrodin block doesn't speak to their awareness, either.

>>53403084

I realize I didn't answer your question.

In short, I just haven't played Legacy for long enough—nor do I have access to enough cards or people with whom to playtest—to have a good idea of how most proposed unbans would work. I think a lot of banned cards are now much less dangerous than they were when they were banned, but I often don't see why it's important to bring them back. A good example is Mind Twist: if you can make seven (or even three) black mana, there are probably better things you can do with it.

Note that that's not an argument to keep it out of the format; it's just that I don't really feel the need to advocate for the card, either.

>>53403818
I wish they'd unban mind twist just so I could play that sick invocation.

>>53402475
3+/- Foil 1+ Thwart 4 Force of will 4 Daze 4 Mystic remora 4 Energy field 4 Rhystic study 3 Chain of vaper 4 Jace beleran 4 Forsaken city 4 Stasis 4 Brainstorm 2 Black vise Rest Islands

4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Hexmage
Lands (24)

2 Island
2 Swamp
4 River of Tears
4 Sunken Ruins
3 Tolaria West
1 Academy Ruins
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Dark Depths
Spells (28)

4 Chrome Mox
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Sword of the Meek
3 Thopter Foundry
1 Doom Blade
1 Into the Roil
4 Muddle the Mixture
1 Slaughter Pact
4 Thirst For Knowledge
3 Beseech the Queen
4 Thoughtseize

Can someone update this decklist to 2017. I just found my old depths and thopter swords and want to play this shit.

unban balance, that card is as balanced as its name implies

>>53408654
unban necropotence, i just want to fuck shit up

>>53408654
What would be the best balance deck in legacy? Maybe something landstill-esque with a bunch of artifact ramp? Or something more combo oriented? Or can you just jam it into your white based control decks?

>>53408813
I know I'd be playing that white stax deck full Moats, Chalices, sol lands, Suppression Fields, Balances etc. and feel like King Asshole.

>>53408871
What a good argument for it never being unbanned.

>>53409074
What's wrong with turn 1 Ancient Tomb, Chalice, Chrome Mox, Chrome Mox, Balance discard your hand?

>>53401903
>You keep ignoring this part. How often do you think you'd play against BUG decks on MTGO in a league?

I don't play MTGO, only Cockatrice and Paper, so I can't comment towards that.

>I'm saying its healthy to have a set of decks that preys on them.
Agreed, but I don't see what your problem is if you have a positive matchup.

>My issue with the DRS decks is only tangentially about homogenization, its mainly about having to play a very homogenous group of deck over and over again.

So really you're just having issues with the actual frequency of the deck rather than the deck itself? Any deck you play against more often is going to be boring since you know most of the lines.

>Are they broken? I would argue no, they impose some very detrimental deck building decision that drastically impact the consistency of any deck using them. You basically trade consistency for raw power.

Well, most cards provide detrimental deck building decisions so I don't think that is fair. Once you have more than one color, you have to start worrying about land consistency. When you add Stoneforge mystic, you have to start worrying about equipment. If you have Thalia, you can't play too many noncreature spells. The difference is when the benefit far outweighs the risk of using it.

>>53402000
>I would also point out that DRS is currently 4th most played card in legacy, being in 35-40% of decks depending on whose numbers you go by.

And Brainstorm/Ponder (collectively, the cantrip cartel) are played in even higher percentages. Brainstorm is by far the most overpowered card in Legacy, but it's not really a cancer. Deathrite is also used in different builds like Dark Bant Stoneblade, Grixis Delver, and several other decks as a utility manadork. Is it extremely strong? Sure, but it's answered by everything removal wise in the format. If you remove Deathrite, then you crush a lot of decks which can answer stompy decks.

>>53400640
>I guess a lot of "Stompy" decks are really all-in on their opener and being able to slam more threats than your opponents have counters.

Ran out of room from my last post >>53410387 here, but I wanted to touch on this regarding having predators in Legacy. This is why I dislike "big red/dragon stompy", it's just like
>I hope I am able to apply some pressure before he draws and plays lock piece after lock piece and then finally slams some big creature

Now THAT'S boring

>>53398586
the most played deck on that legacy challenge was fucking miracles

>>53410409
Cry more dude

>>53410675
One event senpai. The most played deck in the meta at large is easily grixis delver.

Anyone planning on going to GP Vegas? I plan on doing a bunch of legacy side events with PSI and my topless miracles list

>>53410846
>Cry more dude
Whatever you say kid

>>53411354
>Anyone planning on going to GP Vegas? I plan on doing a bunch of legacy side events with PSI and my topless miracles list

I'm going to be on vacation during that time, but if I had gone, would have looked into using one of the Unexpected Miracles list. Shit is fun to play

>>53399584
I was like you once. Played SI years ago and came back to it on recent months. Its suprisingly good these days. Play it.

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Reminder that this general has seen worse days

>>53409405
Force of Will, a turn 1 kill when you're on the draw with Balance, not having any followup when your opponent who's playing a real deck has more live cards on the top of his deck.

>>53414435
Well I doubt your opponent is going to have more live draws when he has no mana while you have 4. Also he is likely to force the chalice, not wait for your balance. Not saying it's good, but how bad can decks with sol lands + lock pieces really be

>>53411354
I'm going, but have the usual indecisiveness regarding deck choice. It'll probably be Death and Taxes, but I'm teetering on the edge of buying the last few pieces I need to finish Parfait; A significant part of me wants to take my friend's corpse of a Miracles deck and cut it up to jam into Parfait to make some kind of WU(R) abomination.

>tfw get bored and start playing Green Storm
>tfw go off on turn 3 and make 800 4/4
>literally storming for 60+ dudes each time

>>53410387
Fair enough my man, I think this is the point where we just have to agree to disagree. It's actually been a really good discussion, it's nice to talk with someone about their personal likes/dislikes without it turning into a screaming match.

>>53417908
>Fair enough my man, I think this is the point where we just have to agree to disagree. It's actually been a really good discussion, it's nice to talk with someone about their personal likes/dislikes without it turning into a screaming match.

Fair play my friend, we'll agree on that. Good having a lively discussion with you as well!

>>53414228
Honestly, I think this kind of stuff is hilarious. Same with the white bordered DDFT decks

>>53417404
>I'm going, but have the usual indecisiveness regarding deck choice. It'll probably be Death and Taxes,

This probably won't help, but I've seen some cool D&T lists that run red for Magus of the Moon

So here is what I plan to bring to vegas. It's my take on topless miracles. Any suggestions?
>inb4 play a different deck

4xFlooded Strand
4xIsland
1xKarakas
1xMarsh Flats
2xPlains
4xPolluted Delta
3xTundra
2xUnderground Sea
1xNotion Thief
3xSnapcaster Mage
2xJace, the Mind Sculptor
4xBrainstorm
3xCounterspell
4xForce of Will
2xLim-Dul's Vault
3xPredict
4xSwords to Plowshares
2xUnexpectedly Absent
1xCouncil's Judgment
1xEntreat the Angels
4xPonder
1xPortent
4xTerminus

Sideboard
1xBack to Basics
1xDisenchant
3xFlusterstorm
1xKambal, Consul of Allocation
1xLeyline of Sanctity
1xMoat
2xMonastery Mentor
1xRest in Peace
2xSurgical Extraction
2xThoughtseize

Is there a hatebears deck aka "unfair bears" in Legacy?

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>>53408103
Have I got some news for you

>>53411354
I dare you to take your shirt off whenever you sit down for a game. If anyone asks what you're doing tell them you're playing topless.

>>53419501
Yes, it's called Death'n'Taxes.

>>53419678

Yeah but Death and Taxes don't play stuff like Gaddock Teeg, Harsh Mentor, Eidolon and Scab Clan Berserker right? I just want to play mostly a bunch of annoying shits that attack for 2 on average.

>>53419748
>I just want to play mostly a bunch of annoying shits that attack for 2 on average.
that's exactly what Death and Taxes is

>>53419501
Maverick fits that bill, you get access to hate bears like Thalia, Gaddock Teeg, Sactum Prelate, ect. in addition to Green Sun Zenith and possibly the Grove + Punishing fire combo depending on the variant. Or you could also play D&T, theres been a resurgence in R/W taxes with Magus of the Moon main and Red Blasts in the SB recently.

>>53419803

Eh I guess. Seems like there's too much D&T going on though at the moment.

>>53419810

>Maverick

Looking at a couple of sample lists this looks exactly like what I want to play.

>>53349026
Ia Mirri's Guile a good enough reason to splash green in miracles?

>>53419957
>miracles
What deck is this?

>>53419968
Some dead deck.

>>53419640
Honestly, I've thought about it. I kinda wanna call the deck the "nude beach" or something along those lines because ya know, it's topless

>>53419957
http://shop.tcgplayer.com/magic/tempest/mirris-guile

>>53419957
Replacement for top?

>>53419462
The list seems somewhat unfocused. Back to Basics, for example, is going to probably hurt you just as much as it hurts your opponent since you seem reliant on having multiple colors up for a turn. Also, why 1 Leyline, and 3 flusterstorm? Your list is too slow for Thoughtseize, it needs to be more aggressive if you want discard.

Actually, most of the black cards in this deck don't really work. Notion Thief seems bad here too unless you can protect it or use it in a different aggro way like in Grixis Thieves I think you'd be better off just going UWr so you can use stuff like Pyroblast and Blood Moon

>>53420149
And yes, I know it's kind of "play a different deck", but it's more like "play one different color".

If you're really focused on black, I'd recommend The Abyss, Vindicate, Sorin Lord of Innistrad, Diabolic Edict, and Zealous Persecution in your maindeck or sideboard.

Lingering Souls might be good too, albeit a bit slow

Captcha: Sore Staff

>>53420188
I see where you are coming from. I'll probably rethink some of the deck but B2B comes in on matchup where I don't need black so I'm not trying to get more than my 2 regular colors. If I do drop black I'm not going onto red, personally just don't like u/w/r miracles at all. The thoughtseize isn't meant to be overly aggressive thought when I board on mentor, I tend to board in TS as well. The 3 flusterstorms is just because it's a really good 1 mana counter, it's great against lots of matchups besides combo as well. I will re think it and thanks for the input. May try to move the mentors to MB and bring a TS or 2 to the main also

>>53419932
I don't see how Maverick is any more hatebear than DnT, but essentially any GSZ deck is running toolbox to fight common strategies. You might want to check Nic Fit as well.

>>53419957
I don't think it really does what you want. It seems like it does on the surface, but give it a go and you'll see.

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>>53422859
Yeah, there's a big difference between being able to cast a Miracle on your opponent's turn and just controlling your draws on your turn. Now you have to cast an Instant Cantrip to do it.

Not impossible, but notably worse. I'm of the opinion that if you want to see if something will work, test it yourself.

>>53420657
>May try to move the mentors to MB and bring a TS or 2 to the main also

If you're going to do that, you could try Esper Mentor, and I'd put in Gitaxian Probe and Cabal Therapy instead of Thoughtseize. The rest of your deck looks pretty solidly set up for it.

Btw always love to see Kambal in a deck so good stuff there!

>>53414228
This is the only reason why I'd ever actually buy magic cards instead of printing proxies/playing on cockatrice.
>boku no pico playmat
This man is a hero.

>>53411785
Post list
I ran bayou+land grant+darbor in my list

What do you suppose is a more healthy and balanced format, Vintage or Legacy? I mean, independently of financial cost, of course.

>>53349026
So can cheap burn still win games? Because I need something to play besides my belcher deck, which I could make because I just happened to have three LEDs from way back.

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>>53356735
>a translation
there is no translation

>>53426624
Legacy is much more balanced than vintage. As much as I love it vintage is an incestuous format right now. There were 2 decks, then wizards just restricted the win condition of one of those two. It really is practically MUD or go home.

Excellent news, WotC is streaming the whole Legacy event at GP Vegas, including Day 2 over the Limited part.

>>53427311
>>53427311
Link to source or I won't believe it.

Why isnt living wish played in dark depths deck? Is the 4 of everything really that important

>>53427220
>As much as I love it vintage is an incestuous format right now.

Part of that issue is the Vintage Super League and whiny man baby Randy Buehler

>>53427635
Crop rotation is better.

>>53427311
>>53427514

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/organized-play/amaz-comes-kyoto-plus-video-through-june-2017-05-25

Does this mean we'll get some of that dope new coverage style I've been seeing for standard?

>>53427785
Show me Patrick Sullivan and Tom Ross on mic and I'll buy a case of Amonkhet

>>53427782
Still 4 extra cards to fetch lands and hexmage

>>53424540
I'm not really feeling the whole espero mentor thing. It's much more of a tempo deck than a control deck. And id like to be a control deck that can board into a tempo deck. kambal is just cool, no one is gonna expect him

>>53429666
Mentor is great and all, but without better free spells I think that TNN and SFM form a much better midrange creature base.

>>53430752
I don't want a midrange deck.He works wonders in a control deck where he can be protected and kill an opponent over several turns

>>53432061
>I don't want a midrange deck.He works wonders in a control deck where he can be protected and kill an opponent over several turns

Do you use Cockatrice? I'd be interested in playing some games vs what you have

>>53349026
I don't play magic anymore and wtf is that shit?

>>53433120
No I used Xmage when I had a working computer, now unfortunately I can't play online magic for the time being.

File: superspecialultrarare.png (639KB, 797x370px) Image search: [Google]

639KB, 797x370px

>>53433132
A few blocks ago they decided to do some full art, crazy rare special cards. Since lands were a big thing for Zendikar they made them for a couple of new Standard lands and a bunch of old favourites for Battle for Zendikar block. This proved so successful that it's since become a regular thing, so artifacts got the same treatment with a frame/artstyle that suited Kaladesh... Then they completely dropped the ball in the new Egyptian themed set and made the borders hideous, the art smaller than on regular cards, gibberish glyphs in card names and type lines, colourless mana symbols and squiggly fonts to make them hard to read and generally look awful and not like Magic cards.

>>53433883
jesus christ, that platinum angel is THICC

>>53433926
I love you legacy general

>>53433926
Waifu tier hips

>>53428039
Riley Knight is best commentator

"A fetcherino is like a fetchland, but you give it the ol' crackarino"

Is there anyway to run a good mono-blue deck? I pulled a Force of Will and I'd love to play Legacy but there's no way I can afford dual lands.

>>53349026
I need a deck with the sole intention of killing delver and uw control

>>53435959
Merfolk

>>53435959
High tide

>>53435959
MonoU Delver with Back to Basics is probably decent.

>>53435959
>Is there anyway to run a good mono-blue deck? I pulled a Force of Will and I'd love to play Legacy but there's no way I can afford dual lands.

You could feasibly run Blue/Red Delver with Steam Vents. You'd lose some percentage points, sure, but the deck is extremely aggressive and you would only need 2 or 3. Just run more islands and mountains.

Here's a recent list:
Lands
1 x Mountain
2 x Island
4 x Scalding Tarn
4 x Polluted Delta
1 x Arid Mesa
4 x Volcanic Island
Creatures
2 x True-Name Nemesis
4 x Delver of Secrets // Insectile Aberration
4 x Monastery Swiftspear
2 x Cryptic Serpent
1 x Bedlam Reveler
Spells
2 x Price of Progress
4 x Ponder
4 x Lightning Bolt
1 x Fireblast
4 x Gitaxian Probe
4 x Force of Will
4 x Daze
4 x Chain Lightning
4 x Brainstorm

>>53436003
RG Combo land, shits all over delver and grinds out control.

>>53436198
Holy shit is Daze bad with Steam Vents though.

Im testing some combo decks out on xmage and holy shit infect is hard compared to turbo depths

>>53433883
I was surprised how good they look in real life, illegibility aside.

I think they should have "translated" them into actual or fake ancient egyptian though. How rad would Vindicate have been if it was called ?????? or something instead?

>>53438808
I think hieroglyphics would have looked dumb and bee in poor taste but they could use Coptic or something that would look dope.

>>53351868
>cant win vs gobbo with DRS
?

>>53379630
Dredge has ALWAYS been the natsoc deck retard.

>btfo the retarded commies
>btfo the world wide price kikery

I wonder if we will ever get blue white and black versions of elvish/simian guides.

>>53441355
They're called lotus petals.

>>53441387
well they still are better in many situations

>>53436882
>Holy shit is Daze bad with Steam Vents though.
It is, that's why I suggested just using a couple and then having more islands/mountains.

>>53440946
/r/ing that one Nazi propaganda poster of the grave troll face superimposed over the Wehrmacht soldier

I think there was a pasta to go along with it too

File: Dredge nazies fighting the eldrazi menace.png (391KB, 468x640px) Image search: [Google]

391KB, 468x640px

>>53442704
I don't think I have the pasta, since it's on my old computer and I don't have a keyboard to recuperate it.