/hhg/ - Horus Heresy General - Chainaxe Speculation Edition

>>53325522
First for the fist.

>buy recasts from a nice dude here
>the recasts are pure garbage

Fucking hell, finecast is better quality, I'm going to sell soon.

Did they say how AP was going to be working for 8th yet? Or is it the same as before, just reworded?

>>53325654
I wonder if that's the reason the dude here sold them. Maybe those minis just go round and round.

>>53325692
It's different, AP in 8th is a save modifier, so if you shoot a gun with AP -2 at a tactical marine they take their armour save on a 5+. Also, cover boosts saving throws in 8th, so that same tactical marine in a crater (say) would get a 4+ save. If it gives some context for typical AP values:
>bolter: AP5 in 7th, AP 0 in 8th
>heavy bolter: AP4 in 7th, AP -1 in 8th
>meltagun: AP1 in 7th, AP -4 in 8th
Although some things have been reshuffled, in 8th power swords are better against armour than power axes, for example.

While we're at it, GW haven't specified yet how invulnerable saves work. Rumours say it's as before (an alternative to the armour save, so you can't take both) but that's not 100% yet.

I run PotL and there is nothing you can do to stop me

So given we know the 8e stats for Knights now, I'm probably going to be salty when Primarchs get a couple dozen wounds. They don't need to be MORE immune to anything less than an AT weapon.

Knights are W24, T8, 3+ and 5++ against shooting. Sword does a flat 6 wounds and -4Sv.

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Since most targets in 30k are T4 (or T5), are power axes going to sitll be the best compromise as an all-rounder weapon in 8th?

>>53326051
Considering they don't seem to strike last (and neither do Fists), I imagine they'll still be good. Though it is annoying that the swords get better armour penetration now than the axes.

>>53325853
That's ok. Just don't be a cunt about it and we can all have a gud time with our own snowflake forces.

>>53326051
Axes and Swords will be pretty much even. Mauls are not useless anymore, just underwhelming.

Woo converting a few meteor-hammer style power mauls for my Scars.

>>53326098
Maybe in actuality it doesn't matter, but: -2 AP, and most characters become S5 (so 3+ to wound), 4+ to wound vs T5.

The sword will wound T4 on 4+ and T5 on 5+ but -3 AP

>>53326140

There we go, that was my thinking.

>>53326051
What about muh lances?

>>53325824
Kinda surprised bolters aren't at least AP -1, given that they fire high caliber explosive rounds. Oh well.

>>53325853
Why would anyone object to Pride of The Legion?

>>53326051
Yes, do the math.
And power mauls become useful only against T3, since Str5 Power axes wound marines the same as Str6 power mauls, but also have a better save modifier. Which happens to be worse than Swords.

>>53326232
I'm okay with it, hopefully means basic infantry won't get blown off the table quite so readily in 8th. I'm all for basic infantry being more viable, whereas (to use a 30k example) I think tactical blobs would be even less worthwhile if they only got a 4+ save against bolter fire.

>>53326140
>Mauls are not useless anymore, just underwhelming.
Mauls are turbouseless now. Wounds like an axe and has a worse modifier

>>53326232
Primaris bolt rifles are at -1. Kraken Bolters will presumably behave the same.

>>53326232
>>53326374
Will lasguns have negative AP?

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>Knight chainsword
>causes 6 wounds
>indicator of 8e D weapons in general?
>lascannons cause D6 wounds
>TL weapons are gone, they're now just two weapon that fire as one
>have Falchion
>12 wounds from main guns
>8D6 wounds from sponsons
>Knights have 24 wounds
>24/6=4 wounds per hull point
>falchion has 9 hull points
>36 wounds

>>53326442
>quick, the angels of death are here! let's turn our lasguns on them and upgrade them to artificer armour!

>>53326228
Still stolen by ECs.

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>>53326289
The joke is that PotL is typically babby's first 30k list thanks to BaC, since it can be accomplished with comparatively few miniatures compared to full armies. It isn't that PotL can't be an effective or fun list, it's just that it has become really common as an improvised entry to the setting.

>>53326374
I think infantry weapons aren't necessarily a problem here compared to the proliferation of everything else that can gut infantry squads like its no one's business. With the number of quad mortars and other artillery pieces on the field, an infantry squad can't even peek out of their Rhino without taking horrendous losses. Though the rules change for TL weapons will make Heavy Bolters function like an actual MG nest now, so infantry blobs might have a new hell awaiting them.

>>53326098
When armor plating became common, axes started developing points in their blades and a lot of sword use reverted to stabbing at joints. If you were on a horse, axes were better because you could get more power than you could if swinging a sword... but it still wasn't better than stabbing.

>>53326232
High explosive rounds are traditionally the opposite of armor piercing.

>>53326051
In marine vs. marine combat, axes will be marginally better against power-armored dudes and equal to swords against Terminators.

>>53326597
Daggers are stabbier and were also used to parry, so power daggers might get interesting rules. Or the usual +1 power fist attack.
Still, flanged maces and hammer heads on halberds were among the best tools against armours because the force would transmit to the guy behind the armour, but unless Power maces and Cruxes arcanuns were +4Str or upgraded to full Two Handed Thunder Hammer, they're just useless now with mere -1 modifier

>>53326602
>HEAT
>opposite of armour piercing

Also, you do realize bolt rounds are designed to pierce the armour, then explode, right?

>>53326655
He's probably thinking of HE and HEDP instead of HEAT.
Scorpius rounds will fuck people up.

I have been wondering, AL (and their characters) have lots of options for modifying reserve rolls, with 8th Edition getting rid of the reserve rolls what do you think FW will replace those rules with, of course in keeping with the AL theme.

>>53326602
And these aren't tanks we're talking about, these are biological organisms that tend to have little in the way of legitimate armor. Until you get to power armor or even Terminator armor, you're still pretty damn squishy out in the field.

Bolter rounds are meant for devastating lightly armored foes (i.e. non-compliant human militias, xenos hordes). By penetrating and then exploding, they're good for mowing through masses. Now, once you get to heavy armor or even power armor, bolters do lose their touch but still have enough punch to allow Marines to reliably go toe to toe with almost anything else they'd have to kill.

>>53326655
> not knowing the difference between HE and HEAT
Engineer pleb, when will you learn?

Has anyone ever actually seen a loyalist army from a traitor legion painted in their pre-Primarch colours? (besides Luna Wolves)

On a semi-related note how many World Eaters escaped the Nails? I know only psykers weren't implanted but none of the known loyalist WE characters have them.

>>53326650
>Still, flanged maces and hammer heads on halberds were among the best tools against armours because the force would transmit to the guy behind the armour,
That's strength, not penetration. And it works in the axe's case, given that it's 7% better in tac marine vs. tac marine combat. The poor power maul doesn't benefit in that situation though, because S5 to S7 all have the same effect.

>>53326051
>>53326098
>>53326140
>>53326156
>>53326356
>>53326597
>>53326642

As another anon said in the close combat thread.

VS toughness 3 models
with a 6+ save maul is the best
with a 5+ save maul is the best
with a 4+ save sword is the best
with a 3+ save sword is the best

VS toughness 4 models
with a 6+ save axe and maul are equal
with a 5+ save axe is the best
with a 4+ save axe is the best
with a 3+ save sword is the best
with a 2+ save sword and axe are equal

VS toughness 5 models
with a 6+ save maul is the best
with a 5+ save maul is the best
with a 4+ save maul is the best
with a 3+ save maul and axe are equal
with a 2+ save axe is the best

VS toughness 6 models
with a 6+ save maul is the best
with a 5+ save maul is the best
with a 4+ save maul is the best
with a 3+ save sword is the best
with a 2+ save sword is the best

VS toughness 7 models
with a 6+ save all are equal
with a 5+ save sword and axe are equal
with a 4+ save sword is the best
with a 3+ save sword is the best
with a 2+ save sword is the best

VS toughness 8 and 9 models
with a 6+ save maul is the best
with a 5+ save maul is the best
with a 4+ save axe is the best
with a 3+ save axe is the best
with a 2+ save axe is the best

13 situations where mauls are better or equal
11 situations where axes are better or equal
11 situations where swords are better or equal

I'm happy with this.

>>53327001
That's assuming st 4 wielder.

>>53327001
nice bit of math there Anon.
I'm certainly ok with this result, nice and balanced really.

>>53327068
You are amazing Friendon. +1

>>53327051
The 8th edition are modifiers are different. If you beat the toughness of your opponent by 1 or by 3, it's still 3+ to wound. You only get 2+ to wound if you double their toughness.

>>53326407
>Mauls are turbouseless now. Wounds like an axe and has a worse modifier
But at least they do SOMETHING now. The old AP4 meant they were completely useless, now they at least modify armor. I can justify building one or two for fluff without it gimping the model. Mauls are for smacking bikers and primarchs now.

>>53327001
>VS toughness 4 models
>with a 6+ save axe and maul are equal
>with a 5+ save axe is the best
>with a 4+ save axe is the best
>with a 3+ save sword is the best
>with a 2+ save sword and axe are equal
I get the axe as being better against 3+ saves. What am I doing wrong?

>>53327183
Axe: 2/3 wounding * 2/3 getting through 5+ = 16/36
Sword: 1/2 wounding * 5/6 getting through 6+ =
15/36
Me too.

>>53327183
You're right, sorry. They're better just barely. 6.4% better than swords against t4 3+ save with a st4 wielder. It was a lot of tables.

>>53327001
Worth noting, cover works in close combat in 8th, so (if I understand it correctly) any infantry hiding in ruins or craters will get +1 to their armour save in close combat (chargers don't get that bonus in the first round). So that may slightly tweak things, depending on how much terrain anons generally have on their tables.

>To aspire to be superhuman is a most discreditable admission that you lack the guts, the wit, the moderating judgment to be successfully and consummately human.

How prominent are the non-Astartes factions in this? I really love the look of the rules and the setting, but I may go a bit insane if I have to fight the same Space Marine list every time, as the YT batreps seem to show me. Anything viable that's NOT Rapiers, Leviathans, a Spartan and a couple squads of vets, or is this a pretty stale meta?
I want to try out either some badass techpriests or those awesome voidsuited Solar Auxilia, can they compete? I know they're the sexiest model lines I've seen in ages, but I never see them played.

>>53327297
There are also to hit modifiers, too, going to be implemented. So power fists are -1 to hit. Meaning they're 33% better on a marine for wounding capability against another marine vs a power sword and using current typical points (20pts vs 15) are 33% more expensive. But will be more points efficient against multi wound enemies.

>>53326955
>That's strength, not penetration
When you wound someone regardless of them wearing either clothes or plate mail, what's that called?

>>53327402
Space Marines are definitely the most common army. However, the non-astartes factions aren't really rare. Mechanicum can compete with the best of them, and solar auxilia is no pushover.

>>53327430
Heck, a well played militia/cult army is no slouch with a ton of ordnance, bodies, and trickery.

>>53327465
Or the infamous 300 man zealot rending horde.

>>53327171
I'm not saying they didn't receive any boost, but they're still surpassed by the other power weapons, especially for anything that wears power armour or better.
But yeah, at least they do something now.

>>53327499
Mauls will be the statistical weapon of choice to dismantle mechanicum heavy infantry like thallax, ursarax, scyllax, vorax, and myrmidons.

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Dual talon shield-captain WiP. Reasonable or do you guys see any glaring issues?
Making a cape from greenstuff (for variety), but that's proving to be more challenging than I thought.
Also, the right talon also has a underslung archeotech pistol.

where are all the audio books of HH novels? am i being dumb and missing it?

>>53327764
I like the cheeky little bird heads.

>>53327764
>Making a cape from greenstuff
I strongly suggest appropriating a cape from some other kit or setting him apart via a unique paintscheme instead. Making convincing looking capes is probably the hardest thing you can try doing with greenstuff.

Otherwise he looks gud. The added eagles on the claws are a nice touch.

>>53327764
Would be cool to have the archeotech pistol be over the shoulder predator style.

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>>53327001
I took a stab at recreating the results.

>>53327813
http://audiobookbay.me/audio-books/warhammer-40k-the-horus-heresy-books-1-43-complete-various/

>>53327833
thanks dude

>>53327430
Good to hear. I presume the SA dudes keep to the Guard tradition of tanking it up to a truly insane degree? I know Mechanicum has MCs and Dune Trains, both of which I like.

>>53327474

Wait what. How many zillions of points is that, because in Marines: The Meta hordes might actually be a bit scary. Can you take that AND the ordnance and trickery? My friend's 40k Renegades look pretty badass, I presume it's similar?

>>53326834
And what's the difference between HE and "high explosive armour piercing"?

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>>53327824
Thanks Anon, Power Axes and Power Mauls are nasty. We Numen Gun Clans now!

>>53327926
High explosive is just that, explosive in a shell that explodes and fragments. HEAP, also called HEAT for high explosive anti tank, is high explosive shaped specifically to penetrate armor. The explosive is formed in the shape of a concave cone behind an identically shaped metal plate.The lensing effect of the explosive in that shape causes the metal plate to turn into a molten jet that pierces armor easily.

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>>53327824
Updated with colors. Since power fists are usually not as available, I kept that table separate - blue is where power fists are best, with light blue-green as tied with one of the other power weapons.

For the rest, red is best and yellow is tied. I don't know if I'm misinterpreting chainswords... if they do get an extra attack, and you don't automatically get two attacks for having two ccw (have they said anything about that?) then you get twice as many attacks as normal which seems crazy. But that's what these numbers are based on.

Who would've guessed, power swords are anti-automata weapons.

>>53327926
See this animation for a visual

http://defense.reaction-eng.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/2008_shaped_charge_0.gif

ECAnon here, looking for advice. Building a techmarine/Forge Lord at the moment, but I'm not sure what sort of color scheme I should use for it. Some use their own colors with the Mechanicus red on one shoulder, while others are inverted.

>>53328107
I’d say the 40k practice of painting specialists in a specialist color, with just a shoulder pad in chapter colors, is very 40k. Use your legion colors with specialist decorations. There’s a SoH techmarine color plate in Book 6, isn’t there? (In the Xana story, the one who isn’t actually a SoH.) He actually might’ve had a lot of gray. Hmm, I’m only confusing myself more.

Just bought a Burning of Prospero box since it was on sale at my lgs, and it's my first time getting into 30k. What scheme should I paint these mk III marines, they're rather plain looking so I'm sure I can get away with just about any legion.

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>>53328242
Well, I'd say that depends entirely with what you'd like out of your Legion forces. If you want something fun to paint, see pic related for the 18 different standard color schemes for each of the Legions. If you're looking to start a new army, I'd take a brief look at each of the Legions first, since they each have their own specialties, personalities, and aesthetics.

>>53328107
I don't think there's any special scheme for techmarines but Iron Hands who served a lot time with the Mechanicum would paint one arm and shoulder red. It's not outlandish to think an EC techmarine might incorporate red into his armour considering how much the 3rd valued individuality and creativity.

>>53328036
Anon, have you been following this conversation at all, besides dropping by to make a comment one one post without checking on the context?

>>53328089
Does this account for powerfists dealing d3 damage per successful armor pen?

>>53328380
The original legions all look so good, it's hard to pick. As for what I want out of them, I guess a bunch of dudes who kill stuff with big guns and who don't afraid of anything.
I wish there were some running/squatting legs I could use with these guys.

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>>53328650
>I guess a bunch of dudes who kill stuff with big guns and who don't afraid of anything
Excuse me sir, might I have a moment of your time to discuss our Lord and Savior Perturabo?

How upset would people be if I used these with MKIV marines? I'm converting some MKIV assmarines, and I can't find any MKIV pistol+sword arms

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>>53328751
Damn it

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>>53328650
Pardon me, but may I tempt you with any flavor of Blackshields with a topping of "your dudes" unrivaled by any of the more, pedestrian Legions?

>>53328759
very, buy the MKIV assault marines / despoilers and stop complaining poor fag.

>>53328650
Iron warriors sound like your sort of thing. Have a read:
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Space_Marine_Legion_List_(30k)#IV_Legion:_Iron_Warriors

>>53328732
Iron Warriors seem cool. My only complaint is I have a big necron army, so painting another army silver seems like it would be boring.

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>>53328858
>paying $188 + shipping for something I already
>mfw

I already have the bodies, boyo. I just need the arms.

>>53328925
It is boring, and its the most memeified Legion.

>>53328601
No, you can think of it as being against single-wound models... which isn't common at higher toughnesses. Against multi-wound models, powerfists are always better than these other weapons (at least when the wielder has a WS of 3+).

>>53328650
For dakka and tough guys, you might like Death Guard, Iron Warriors, Iron Hands, or even Salamanders (dakka+flamethrowers). IW+IH love their vehicles and big guns, and both love heavy armor and frontal assaults. Death Guard also like big guns, but are big fans of infantry slogs. Salamanders are known in the setting for being tenacious as fuck, while also being forge masters (general love for all sorts of weapons and armor)

>>53328950
Ignore the autist, they'll work just fine.

>>53329009
All legions are memeified, AL the most but so are others like WAS, SW and BA.
The IWs memes come from their bitter loyalists, who overshadow people like Forrix or...
Or that other guy who gets demoted, I don't remember him. But Kalkator is gud too. Bants Magneric to no end
>Sees Magneric now as a Dreadnought
>"The Iron Without suits you well :^) "

>>53328925
Death guard and iron hands can also do tough shooty motherfuckers. Iron hands aren't that common if that matters to you, but have some really tasty rules, and a great scheme if you can work out how to paint it.

>>53329009
>advising someone against a legion purely based on memes on a kiwi wardancing forum
GTFO.

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First attempt at painting a custodes. I thought painting yellow was agony, then gold came along.

>>53329329
U wot m8. Gold's a piece of piss.
>Step 1: paint the fucking thing gold

>>53328925
The Custodes and Sisters in BoP can be allied into a loyalist legion. So there's some advantage to picking one of them. Your brief description fits the character of the Imperial Fists and Iron Hands the best. They're both tough legions that absorb fire well. I'd also look at the Salamanders - like burning things and, like the IH, are slow and tough.

>>53329446
Instructions unclear, dick stuck in thinning pot; still too thicc.

>>53329329
What gold is that? Are you having trouble with it separating?

>>53327764
Any idea how LCs (and by extension solarite talins) will work in 8th? Maybe like a mix of powersword and chainsword?

>>53328089
Found a mistake, will update shortly.

>>53329898
No idea. Part of the problem is we don't know whether they'll still be costed close to power fists, or if they'll have a points drop down to the level of swords/axes/mauls. If we knew that I'd be more confident guessing how strong lightning claws might be.

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>>53329329
The custodes figures have such ugly legs and feet. I wish they were more like the older art ones.

>>53329746
it is a shitty ass testor enamel (came with my first airbrush). where it seems to be separating is my bad attempt at highlights.... i think.

>>53329464
>Custodes and Sisters in BoP can be allied into a loyalist legion
You cannot ally Talons of The Emperor with anyone.

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>>53330341
Literally every time FW hasn't gone full Blanche was a mistake. They need the cloaks and robes.

>>53330561
Don't forget the boots. I always like the idea of the Custodes being the perfect human specimen, tall and thin but strong while the armour isn't bulky and "primitive" like the Astartes.

>>53329464
I gave the custodes and sisters to my brother since he owns a primarch. Figured he'd get more use out of them. Also I'm appreciating the input you guys, I might go with Iron Warriors.

Noob question, but how acceptable, generally, is it to use 40k models in 30k?

>>53330863
Kill yourself.

>>53326655
This nigga here
>>53328036
Can explain it to your pleb ads.
Try not to fuck up on a demo range and have to call out the real experts to in fuck your sorry asses.
Also, I could train a fucking monkey to put a block of c4 next to something.
You aren't special.

>>53330863
>was it around in the Horus Heresy?
>would your guys have had access to it?
If yes to both you can use it.

>>53330863
People usually loathe it.

>>53330358
Since you have an airbrush just follow Kenny's gold tutorial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEWF3hw8djs

Your custodes will look fantastic but be warned, he's a polarizing figure.

>>53331152
thanks mate

>>53331152
>polarizing
>sonic

I see.

>>53330863
Depends on the model. Mark Seven armour and later is a big no, so no Space Marines off the GW shelves save the Calth and Prospero boxes. You can use GW Vindicators, Predators, Rhinos(although you may need FW weapon upgrades if you want pintle multimeltas or something) and Land Raider Godhammers last I checked just fine, among any other SM vehicle there's rules for. Just don't have a MK7 commander sticking out the hatch. Never had anyone object to using properly crewed GW artillery like Basilisks either, when modified with Space Marines or Servitor crewmen.
For other armies, Militia and Cults is conversion central, they have no official models at all and are so customisable I've seen hordes of cloned cannon fodder Fearless blobs of Crypt Ghouls with heavy tank support go against Fantasy Musketeers in a gunline with Organ Gun Rapiers. Pick a theme and make it look good, no-one cares
Solar Aux have their own models for everything, so not much wiggle room there.

Mechanicum are interesting. Lots of fuckawesome FW stuff, so you may be looked down on a little for not using the cool options, bit because all the tech was around at the time there's little problem with a GW Dominus showing up as a 30k Dominus, and certain units have no models at all, so you have to convert something there.

Nearly all factions can take Baneblades or variants, too, so that's fine if painted right, GW Knights are totally legal LoW options and have their own army list with the FW ones and the Mechanicum can take a truly massive pile of Imperial goodies (and the Tau Manta, because rules loopholes are wierd) as long as they're modelled Mechanicumy as Lords of War, so probably some options there

No Skitarii, though, aside from their bodies and guns being used for Secutarii, and I don't think you'd get flak for not buying a £25 upgrade kit for ten heads and backpacks to make Radium Peltasts. No Dunecrawlers or Sicarians or Kastelans or anything other than Magi and Vanguard.

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>>53330145
I had a mistake that made power axes look too good at S10. Once again, power fist assumes just one wound (multiply by 2 for multiwound units) and it's usually the best choice, as shown by the blue. Red means a weapon is best if not considering the power fist, yellow means tied.

I'll just repeat my findings:
You'll want all the power fists you take. They aren't the best against hordes, but that's no surprise. The chart shows that they aren't optimal at T9 (basically at the first T beyond twice your strength) but once you include their D3 damage, they're the best again.

If you're a normal human (S3), you're usually better off with a power maul because it's great against T4 and T5 units. If you're S4, the maul's usefulness is narrower: it's the best choice against T5 except against 2+ saves, where the axe is better.

Against most T4 units and Custodes (and T8/T9 targets), you want an axe.

Swords tie for best against terminators and excel against well-armored T3, T6, and T7 enemies.

>>53331291
>Mark Seven armour and later is a big no
Friendly reminder that it's PERFECTLY fluffy for BA, IF, and WS to have mk7 if you are running a Siege of Terra army. No amount of autistic screeching will make that wrong.

>No Skitarii, though
I'm annoyed by this. They show up all the time in the fluff. Why don't they get rules?
>but they're controlled by Mars
I'm playing traitor Taghmata Mars. They were also stationed all around the galaxy and Skitarii fought with the Ultramarines at Calth.

>>53330626
Iron Warriors, Death Guard, Imperial Fists, and Iron Hands all fit the image of Mk III marines firing big guns and shrugging off incoming fire.

>>53331333
Did you take the power fist's -1 to hit into account?

>>53331354
>Why don't they get rules?

Because in 30k the Skitarius is the personal household troops of the Fabricator General and Fabricator Locum, and are a unique formation of Mars. The rest of the Forge Worlds use the Taghmata system.

My Night Lords came in today, pretty happy

Sevatar
30 Pauldrons
20 Terror Squad heads
20 Volkite Chargers
10 Raptors
5 Nostraman Chainglaives
Looking forward to starting on them this weekend. Friends and I are planning a 30k BBQ in a month or so.

>>53331446
And Custodes are the personal household troops of the Emperor. What's your point? Make them traitor only then.

>>53331370
Yeah I think IW will be the way I go. What would be a good place to get some bases that fit their attrition/siege theme? Dudes sprinting under fire through some razor wire and mud would be cool.

>>53331446
The Reductor is stated to use their Thallax because they no longer have access to the regular Skitarii everyone else uses...yet the codex has the Thallax as the baseline soldier for the Taghmata and even the Cybernetica. That simply cannot be.
A Troops choice is needed
One that isn't a gift from the Reductor
Nor the escort of a God-Machine
Nor a self-aware automaton
Nor the baseline Cybernetica bot
Nor a lobotomized slave

Peltasts and Hoplites should be a special thing, not the REPLACEMENT for regular Skitarii Rangers and Vanguards in 30k.

>>53331524
Whether any of us like it or not, Skitarii do not have 30k rules yet, end of story. Maybe they'll be added down the line, but as of right now 30k Mechanicus has what it has and that's that.

>>53330881
No you, my man

>>53331604
It not only says the Skitarii was a thing that existed before the Imperium, but narrates the M.U.L.E. getting turned into Onager.
Gib crab tanks.

>>53331408
Yup.

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>>53331604
>>53331663
Skitarii and crab tanks WHEN

>>53328751
>>53328759


I'd be booty-tickled. Extra so, if you're doing plastic MkIV. MKIV bits/kits are dirt cheap on ebay.

>>53331354
>>53331354
>Friendly reminder that it's PERFECTLY fluffy for BA, IF, and WS to have mk7 if you are running a Siege of Terra army. No amount of autistic screeching will make that wrong.
They might not be keeping that fluff. It's old, all the way back to 1990, and it says that Mars started producing Mk VII as it fell to the traitors.

Flash forward to 2008 when Mechanicum (the novel) came out, and it's got Imperial Fists evacuating Mk IV and Mk VI suits from Mars as it falls to the traitors. (They give the Mk VI to Corax when he visits Emps for some genecrafting help.) So... I'm honestly not sure Mk VII is happening until the Scouring.

>>53331935
As the fluff currently stands it's acceptable. I'd actually prefer it if FW retconned that just to BTFO the mkVII smartasses.

Although let's be honest, Forge World is going to be doing the Scouring anyway.

>>53329222
Which book can I read about these shitposter marines in?

Can someone post that Sang's hologram on Gate of Eternity door passage please?

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>>53332942
From the War of the Beast one that has an Iron Warrior with a Combi-melta in the cover.

>>53331765
Plastic MKIV doesn't come with sword arm and pistols, though. The swords and pistols are holstered except for the ONE on each sprue for the sgt.

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I wonder how many marines Sanguinius could kill if you tried to recreate the Eternity Gate on the tabletop with his rules. I bet he'd go down like a bitch desu.

>>53334702
>IT'S ALSO A CUP

>>53334754
kek

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Obligatory what are you working on HHG but also a question to custodians...how do you guys paint your vehicles? Do you wash the whole tank with a wash after spraying gold or what?

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>>53335587

Shitty picture ahoy. Working on #5 (really it's #3).

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>>53331512
Have fun making your legion. Will you add Curze later on? I love that knife throwing maniac

>>53331512
>raptors
I wish they weren't largely inferior to ass Marines because of how expensive they are vs how inexpensive assmarines are. Hell, they're even more expensive to actually buy the models.

>>53331071
It's easy to ignore the context and nitpick on a single post, you know. Even an untrained monkey could do that.

But, hey, if you think high-explosives got nothing to do with piercing armour, then I guess that's the fact of life and all those high-explosive weapons designed for piercing armour don't exist.

the Great Crusade is infinitely more interesting than the Horus Heresy.

provide arguments if you disagree

>>53336978
I wish the Heresy had more instances of xenos trying to take cheap shots at humanity while it was in civil war, since humans had been fucking around with pretty much alien race in the galaxy it seems fair that they would all relish the chance to get some licks in while they were down.

>>53336978
The heresy featured essentially equal opponents in its vast majority, whereas the great crusade was mostly astartes stomping puny humies/eldar/similar xenos or drowning megarachnids/rangda under a tide of armoured corpses.

You're not wrong though, Great Crusade noblebright makes the future suffering even worse

>>53337060
Every nearby xenos civilization worth anything just got skullfucked by the Great Crusade. I don't think anyone was in a position to exploit their weakness.

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Starting work on my IF Chaplain; anything you guys would add or recommend?

>>53337167
Obviously going to clean up the DA symbols, but beyond that?

>>53335587
For my Custodes I spray the whole vehicle and then do a lahmian medium mix with whatever wash I choose across the whole vehicle, but do heavier application in the recesses.

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>>53335587
I just finished my first World Eater. He's still missing some transfers, weathering, and blood and gore, but Im happy with the white I ended up with and the color of the blue.

>>53337285
>thin your paints
>don't let washes pool like on the gauntlets
>don't overdo the blood (flick don't slather)

How thin the paint must be? About 1:1 ratio with water?

>>53337167

Is that a Night Lord helmet?

>>53328759
I'd only be triggered if you had mismatched arms

use the mk 5/7 style arms for the swords as well and I won't cause no trouble

>>53335642
These are nice.

>>53337497
Yeah.

>>53336652
You guys got sidetracked by your dicks.
The original thought was why Bolt Rifles get -1 and Bolters don't. Standard Bolter ammo has always been soft target penetrators, not armour piercing. That's why Kraken, Banestrike, Scorpious et al are even a thing.
For our HH purposes, there's even a scene in DL where the RG Techmarine demonstrates this by showing it takes takes 3 or 4 ordinary Bolter rounds to explosively shatter apart a piece of power armour, compared to a single banestrike, which just plows into it and blows it the fuck apart in one shot.
ie the difference between high explosive anti personnel and high explosive armour piercing. Or at least the space equivalents, although there is a Deathwatch book were the author autistically footnotes these kinds of things with the same nomenclature we use now.
In general, you would (in fact, you wouldn't) be surprised by the large number of people who do not understand how bolter ammo works, despite it being described in almost every battle scene and the 'mass-reactive' phrases being more common than 'the emperor protects' across all the ficiton.

>>53337167
Painting him.

>>53337285
All the right ideas but applied a bit too thick. Very good first go though, the only way is up.

>>53337285
>finished
>Except for these essential things
It doesn't look terrible, but the white is a bit thick and you could stand to do a more recessed edge wash, or at least cover up the bits that stick too far into the armor, paticulatly on the chest. Are you using Duncan's method for white? If you aren't, you really should, because I think you aren't and it shows.

>>53337799
>not armour piercing

So why are bolts always described as "armour piercing"?

Yes, they can't deal with power armour, but I wouldn't say armour piercing bullets aren't actually armour piercing if they can't deal with a lightly armoured vehicle. Or that an anti-tank weapon isn't anti-tank if it can't deal with any and all tanks.

>>53337927
>armour piercing
>yes they can't pierce armour

For those under a rock, pre-orders for the Dalek caladius variant went up

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-FR/Legio-Custodes-Caladius-Grav-Tank-Annihilator-2017

>>53338023
>anti-tank rifle is not anti-tank, because it can't deal with tanks

>>53338149
Shame Predator Annihilators aren't a think, that'd make a nice turret. Maybe make a Skitarii force with Militia and use it on a Leman Russ Annihilator?

>>53337927
>So why are bolts always described as "armour piercing"?
They are? That a round is meant to explode inside the target is the same as a bullet being designed to squash inside one, and when bolters are said to penetrate "most armour", remember carapace stops them and their hardened diamantine tip, and are routinarily described as having a greatly reduced effect on power armour, especially the pauldrons.
Would you call a full jacketed bullet "armour penetrating"? Neither can they effectively deal even with light vehicles.

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>>53338282
>They are?

Yes.

>"Bolters fire self-propelled ARMOUR-PIERCING mass-reactive explosive missiles called bolts."

>>53338339
>*Carapace blocks your way*
Son, you've been lied to and you drank the codex cool aid.
Deal
with
it.

>>53338367
>kraken penetrator round
>can't penetrate power armour
>"REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"

>>53338397
So it is. And specialist ammunition, like Banestrike, Scorpius, Kraken and Vengeance, aren't the norm, since there are other rounds that detonate before even making contact with the target like Tempest, Shrapnel and Metal storm.

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Is there a fanmade version of Shadow Wars Armageddon for 30k?

>>53338282
NATO blacktip 5.56mm is 'armour piercing' too, but it won't do shit against APCs/IFVs. It's for penetrating body armour.

Does anyone have any images of Warder Custodes, unique custodes, or fancier Custodes (they can be Hetaeron or not)

>>53338665
Has someone called NATO and told them about this error?

>>53338554
Someone on that website that triggers everyone made this:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/auckrbtluzds9h9/ShadowWarHeresy1.1.pdf?dl=0

Don't know if it's an ongoing project though, or if it's just been abandoned. There are errors in there as well (heavy support trooper for example) so apply common sense when using.

>>53338704
Not an error, it's for body armour, hence armour piercing, not anti-tank, like a HEAT round. Besides, NATO doesn't fight anyone with body armour anyway.

>>53338713
Cheers

Can loyalist ec take kakophani and sonic shriekers?

>>53338919
No, you mook.

>>53338919
Only in a shattered legions army alongside imperial fists, where the imperial fist contingent has a points cost which is a prime number, or alongside ultramarines, where every model in the ultramarines contingent that can take a power maul has done so. It's a rite of war FW published online, but like chinaman details we're not supposed to post a link.

>>53338919
>can loyalists take this option which is traitor only
No, and to intercept your next question they can't take Eidolon or Fulgrim either.
>>53339150
You forgot that you have to take an AL warlord.

Talon of Horus was pretty good
any more stories with Thousand Sons char?

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So after the FAQ that made them agreement-only, does anyone actually use the relics? That Admech techno-virus looks badass against a tank army, dishing out one Haywire hit that swiftly turns into three or four if a few vehicles are next to them. Also the combat augment array and personal Void Shields look cool.
Xander's final lobotomized form of RAAGE would probably be a Malagra with the CAA and a Paragon, he doesn't care if he kills himself in the process and doesn't give a fuck about his troops anymore.

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>>53338684I paint my 40K-stodes/Hetaeron like this. Basically Gehenna's Gold with some Mephiston Red (I think, possibly Evil Sunz Scarlet) mixed in, drybrushed Runefang Steel. Still need to paint the Guardian Spears not-shit-tiers and wash everything, but this is the general idea. Poses are all straight out of the box, following the instructions (gonna mix things up on the next box though). The one eception to this is the Shield Captain - I was too retarded and accidentally ruined the arm he was "supposed" to have and went with the sword arm instead, making his pose a bit awkward.

>>53339597
>CAA and weapon that does Instant Death on a 6
That sort of thing is basically why people got fed up with relics.

>>53340223
Really? I would have thought that getting one good shot in at the cost of possibly taking some wounds would be fine for 35 points. I can't exactly stick him in a Spartan and go get early game charges.
The Contagium, then? Seems like it could be fun against those twats who only run RhinoVets, Spartans and Leviathan or Mortis Dreads plus occasionally flyers and rapiers. Drop it out of an Arvus or the Stormbird and start messing them up turn two. I'd have to be careful not to burn my own Macrocarid or artillery, though, even with repair crew.

>>53338704
They're obsolete :^)

>>53340318
>The Contagium, then?
Scutarii makes it as obsolete as NATO.

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>>53330341
No! You have ugly legs and feet!

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>>53336978
If definitely find the great crusade more interesting by far, partly because there is some mystery still left to it, but mainly because I love the over all feeling of it.

The whole feeling/idea of mankind having fallen from a golden age into despair. Having a empire torn apart and fragmented only then to be besieged by untold aliens and nightmares further casting you down. To then live on for thousands of years in a hellish dark age.

Then to be thrust into an age of a once again reunited(mostly) humanity pushing back against the horrors of old night, reclaiming lost worlds and ancient technologies. To rebuild an empire from nothing. There is just something about it that screams of an epic of untold proportions.

>>53341618
Pretty much. If they ever do a 30k TV show, I'd like it to be about the Great Crusade. It's the best era by far, it does nobledark a lot better than the new 40k stuff that just seem cartoonish. You need warriors and builders and politicans and all the shenanigans that make a good show, rather than just "I am a Marine, thus I win" that 40k would probably present.

Also I would love to see the Mechanicum running about building all the shit. And hopefully wrecking Xenos face with all the toys they aren't allowed to use on Marines when the Emprah showed up because plot, let the Reductor show off for once because they've literally got one guy who doesn't do any sieging.

>>53340476

Aww. ANYTHING that I can use to represent a self-destructive and insane Archmagos wreaking vengeance on the DarkMech his forces will eventually be indistinguishable from, then? Nanyte Blaster? Or is that too OP?

>>53341618
The background to House Vyronii is the perfect example for this.
>massive spaceship approaches last bastion of mankind
>dying knight household prepares for final battle of the human race
>the spaceship lands
>door opens
>guy pops out
>get in nerds we're reclaiming the galaxy

>>53342057
And about ten minutes later a bunch of Mechanicum are squeeing over the Knight suits. Can giant war machines be cute, or is that only toasters?

I was wondering just the other day how many planets thought they were the Last Men in the Universe. Where's that story from?

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>>53338684
I think of Warders as more of a position rather than unit. so I use one as the leader of a 3 man Hetaeron unit.

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>>53341618
The Great Crusade has much more potential than the Heresy because the options are much more varied. Not that the Heresy isn't interesting in itself, but the Great Crusade is a time of mystery, discovery, overcoming unfamiliar obstacles. Challenging the great Orkish Empires of the center of the galaxy. Negotiation or warfare with Eldar raiders. Squaring off against ancient human colonies armed with powerful archaeotech. Desperate fights against horrors living on the galactic edge, like the Rangdan Xenocides.

>The 192nd Expeditionary Fleet was last recorded entering the Enriga system, having discovered human settled worlds under the yoke of xenos rulers. That was one year ago. Your fleet, the 85th Expeditionary Fleet, along with the 136th, are being sent to discover what happened to the 192nd and claim the system in the name of Mankind.

A small Custodes force for ZM games and such. Not designed to be totally OP, just taking stuff I like.

Talons - 1000 points

HQ
Shield Captain, Paragon Spear, Cyber Senpai, Shrike, Lasers, Melta Bombs, TTs - 242pts

ELITES
x3 Aquilon Terminators, Gauntlet and Destructor, Talon and Destructor, Gauntlet and Firepike, Shrikes, TTs - 291pts

TROOPS
x3 Custodians, Vexilla and Power Axe, Melta Spear, Guardian Spear, Shrikes, Melta Bombs, TTs - 216pts

x3 Sentinals, Vexilla and Gauntlet, Shield and Gauntlet, Shield and Talon, Shrikes, TTs - 246pts

995/1000 Total

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>>53342533
>Cyber Senpai
Capital taste, anon.

Otherwise, not much I can say other than yep, that's a Custodes list. You may have some trouble with tarpits, though, given that with only one Firepike two 15-man Adsecularis squads can easily tie down most of your list. Armour shouldn't be a problem, or MCs, but I can just see a Plasma squad or some Myrmidons catching one of your squads in a corridor and ripping them up. As long as your play carefully with evading LoS and don't just charge on in I can't see any problems.

>>53328950
at least convert the arms to be MKIV or MKII or go back to 40k

>>53342609
>Cyber Senpai
damn, how did I forget about the filters. Tarpits are an issue but I can't see around it without cramming my list full of hard counters.

I think with everything teleporting LoS will either be a non-issue or ill get totally fucked by a good shooting unit.

>>53338684
But all custodes are unique :^)

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>>53328650
The Imperial Fists welcome you.

>>53342787
Always the way of things. Just be conservative with your deepstrikes, you need every unit for SOMETHING against a normal balanced list and can't afford to lose one to mishap because you got greedy with charge inches.

Tarpits nearly always turbofuck Custodes anyway, so no change there.
I can foresee Marine lists being very sad indeed if they don't have two or three Dreads, but Mechanicum when properly kitted will fuck you right up with Myrmidons and tarpits, probably with a Rad Grenade Magos to throw out ID hits if they can afford or make use of the Taxlax. Try to get the jump on them with the Sentinels, because if they fire with grav at that range then charge you are almost certainly dead unless the Captain's there to tank with 3++.

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What do you guys prefer, black shoulders with brass trim or green shoulders with black trim?

I might just give the mkIV ones brass faceplates instead, or make the middle of the chest cables brass.

>>53343471
The black and brass looks really nice. Maybe doing it on one shoulder each, rather than both sides?

>>53343471
Black shoulders with brass for my money. It's just more interesting to look at.

>>53343471
Black with brass my friend

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>>53326835
Endryd Haar

>>53343471
Black and brass, sexy sexy contrast there. I did one for my Knight's base, but went more for darker green and bronze. Probably a fuckup, but he still looks OK. That green is gorgeous, how did you get it?

>>53343471
Both look good, maybe mix?

>>53343610
>>53343620
>>53343635

Thanks guys, will paint the rest of the army with black shoulders.

What about weathering, do I add scratches like on model #3 or keep them clean?

Still haven't got the hang of making great scratches but I guess I'll just learn as I go.

>>53343668

Thanks man, the green was really simple, i tried the FW colors but they were too dull for my tastes.

>Incubi Darkness basecoat
>Kabalite Green layer
>Kabalite + Sybarite Green mix 50/50 layer
>Coelia Greenshade painted into recesses
>Sybarite Green highlight
>Gauss Blaster highlight on the finest edges

You could use Sybarite Green with a bit of white instead of Gauss Blaster Green if you don't have it.

>>53343716

I might keep a small squad of ten green ones as a tactical support squad, I'll probably add some brass faceplates to tie them into the rest of the army.

>reading plutarch like the pretentious fuck that I am
>discover that damn near every name in the heresy was some important greek or roman
Even "fuggin' strabo" from Legion is stolen from the classics for crying out loud.

>>53343909
And yes, I do realise what I slowpoke I'm probably being with this.

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wtf I hate Magnus now


on another note, this is probably one of the better recent HH books. Especially the Titan POV was nicely done imo.

Anyone know what mark the Terror Squad torsos are supposed to use? I don't know if I should put them on my MkIII or MKIV legs/arms

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>>53341795
Well I would have gone with Combat Augment Array, but failing that, how about the Phase Walker. Poof, your Magos is no longer bound to the physical real, but jaunting is taxing to the body and more so to the mind.

But you did say Xander was becoming paranoid towards the end, so a Void Shield would be fitting and nice.
A step up over File: Satarael, which he studied on his quest for preservation of knowledge.

You could use dish antennae, or a pylon array, or gill-like structures, or concentric halos, whatever you damn wish. Because they're relics. Few bits of tech in the galaxy work like that, but the one you're wearing is perhaps the only of its kind.

>>53344289

They're mkIV.

MkII and mkIII have ridged backs while mkIV and onwards have smooth backplates.

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>>53344236
Yeah that was pretty great. Though I liked the bits where the BA guy kicked ass, and the Custodes ripping Astartes apart way more

>>53344317
Phase Walker looks good, given he'd have close teleport lock and scanners for finding a new spot from the Whalebird's sensors. Void Shield seems like overkill, since he doesn't die when his body is destroyed. Paranoid, yes, but I would think he values strategic supremacy over the need to crack open another cloned corpus.
Having him use Walkers in Ruin to just bounce behind someone and blast their skull open with a melta shot seems suitably suicidal. Maybe I'll build some form of energy-glowy thing into the augments, then it can be either the Phase or the Array. That way he has three forms. The Archimandrite, for when he was Magos Veneratus and led his fleet for Mars and Xana, Satarael for when he started developing his own agenda and modified his fleet to hold his consciousness, and the crazed shell of his final form, who has two thousand years of war behind him and little of anything else. I imagine he'd be a little like film Ultron, except focused on the DarkMech rather than mankind in general.

Only two models, because he saw little need to prepare seventy different bodies and mostly just replicated the one he had, until he had need of the greatest personal weapons his fleet possessed for his revenge-crusade by proxy. The second one is probably going to be some form of mega-Ogryn, with the pistons from the Sicarian models integrated into his legs and upper arms and all the usual armour plating.

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>>53344407

Cool, thanks anon. I'll remember that.

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>>53344687
>Leman Russ
>Facial hair
Oh, anon.
>Perturabo
:'(

>>53344729

Eh, insight make it. It was just the first random HH image I found.

>>53344580
>The second one is probably going to be some form of mega-Ogryn
Ah, the Gigas Mechanica.
This might be useful to you.
http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1953.0

>>53344775
Damn, that's handy. He has quite a few of the quirks and tricks on that list. I could roll up an entire command conclave there, and I'm now tempted to model my Enginseers with a pair of Haemonculite Servitors each.

>>53343763
>What about weathering, do I add scratches like on model #3 or keep them clean?
I'd add scratches to all of them but mix up their number and severity.

>>53337927
>So why are bolts always described as "armour piercing"?
Because they do technically penetrate armour to a point, but they are not specifically armour piercing munitions. The armour-piercing tip on a bolt round is designed to a standard, and is defeated by armour rated higher than that standard.
A dedicated armour-piercing round such as the, what - three? - different ones that are used in stead of standard ammunition is better at guess what, piercing armour. That's why we have them in the fluff and in the game. Dedicated AP ammo for bolters literally exists because standard bolt rounds are not good enough to count as AP ammo in conditions where it is desired to be able to consistently and reliably penetrate armour.

Again, to the example given, or indeed a great many other pieces of fiction; standard bolt ammo is often defeated by armour, or it requires several shots to break open, often even described as due to repeated explosive damage. I read just this evening - completely co-incidentally to this discussion - a battle scene where a marine was shot in the abdomen, his plate fractured but the shell did not wound him, but he thought that a second shot to that location would. A banestrike would've gone right into him on the first round, at least with the impression we're supposed to get.

After typing all that out I guess you were probably just nitpicking a post for funsies, so ah well. It was better than the time a guy revealed he thought bolt rounds were fused for time detonation.

>>53339338
Khayon cameos in the 3rd Ahriman book, which is bretty gud. The whole series is top tier but then I am a TS fag. He also is in a short or two but they might have been in your copy of Talon.

>>53339868
This guy will look great-tier with a nice wash.

>>53342186
>dat plague zombie on the right
Nurgle infiltrating already

>>53343930
Mate you're beyond slowpoke and from the paleolithic era. But I still love you no homo.

>>53345474
Well, bolt rounds do punch through standard infantry armour. In real world that's enough to count as "armour piercing."

>a guy revealed he thought bolt rounds were fused for time detonation.

You mean like delayed fuse?

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Christ the GW plastics are boring. These guys have a ton of little mistakes but I can't be bothered going back over them.

>>53345651
Noone has any trouble understanding any of that. But we're talking about power armour, which is not "standard infantry armour" if you're talking about the totality of the galaxy's military forces, rather than just the Legions Astartes.

Not that anon but to add a little bit of real world information, a fully jacketed 5.56mm round (as fired by the AR-15 and related rifles), will generally punch through most types of body armour, except those rated class III or above. But this doesn't necessarily mean that is an armour piercing round. In such cases those rounds have not only a jacket made of steel, but a core of that or some other dense material.

>>53345813

They look pretty good to me. Did you want to compete for Golden Daemon?

>>53345651
Anon, are you seriously lauding bolters as "armour piercing" because of the mighty achievement that is defeating fucking Flak armour? Come on.
This is 30k. Until 8E is fully implemented in HH (thank FW's glacial speed), if it doesn't defeat power armour then it's not armour piercing. Power armour is the common protection 'round these parts.
Grab an AP3 Hellgun, that's more armour piercing than a Heavy bolter

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>>53345651
>>53345915
>all this bs
>all because I noticed bolters are no longer AP5 and are now AP0 in 8th

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>>53345971
>and you post my screenchop of that guy's mini
Hey, it wasn't me the one who thought calling HE shells "not armour piercing" was equal to shitting on HEAT shells that weren't even mentioned. Because that's the origin of all this.

>>53345915
>Anon, are you seriously lauding bolters as "armour piercing" because of the mighty achievement that is defeating fucking Flak armour? Come on.

No, I'm calling it "armour-piercing" because that's what the fluff says: >>53338339

>>53345915
>because of the mighty achievement that is defeating fucking Flak armour?
Reminder that Heavy Stubbers are equivalent to modern-day heavy machine guns and still only have AP6. Piercing Flak armor is serious business, there's a reason wars in the far future can get close enough to hit them with your sword.

>>53346151
Reminder that your monomolecular chainsword has the same armour penetration as a bare fist, but suffers form problems of teeth loss against hard stuff. Unless you're Ferrus or Perturabo, whose fists are actually AP2.
Not only is the bolter's insufficient anti-armour capabilities a product of the arms race in the galaxy and depicted as a good thing because it's the weapon of the trademark good guys, but because it's a D6 setting.
It's simply not true.

>>53345971
>AP5 = AP0 now
Yay for shrapnel rounds!

>>53346571
T-that's the opposite, anon :/
But perhaps a combination of lesser marine Ld and the opportunity of getting new rules (D3 hits instead of templates, perhaps Shell Shock instead of just Pinning) and Shrapnel Bolts will be on par with those AP2 on initiative weapons. The ones that are now outclassed by Power Fists now that they won't attack at Init1

>>53342711
How the hell do you convert MKIV arms?

>>53346646
>The ones that are now outclassed by Power Fists now that they won't attack at Init1

Then again, Fists don't ID anymore, just cause 1-3 wounds, and suffer a -1 to hit.

>>53346679
liquid GS the cracks and grooves then GS or plasticard the wrist to add the lip thing.

Terran Veteran Night Lords Breacher Siege Squad, yes or no?

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>>53346794

>>53346811

Are Night Lords welsh?

>>53346794
>>53346811

Probably got clobbered in their own home system. I can't imagine the legion fielding breachers against Dark Angels.

>>53346722
Now that you say it, and I didn't think of it this way, it actually validates other weapons more. I mean yes, maybe they are still inferior to power fists like >>53331333 says, but the thing is the other weapons now at least have a chance of actually doing something (although it's for 18 attacks and you still have to multiply powerfist numbers by two).
We say Force weapons, which in 7E have Instant Death, will now have D3 Damage.
I ask this:
How do you think Paragon Blade stats will be, if today is an un-unwieldy Power Axe at +1Str AP2? Should it be given a chance at D3 Dmg on a 6 or another rule would be better? Perhaps Eternal Warrior will turn those D3 wounds into just one.

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>>53337927
Bolt gun rounds are essentially 20mm APHE rockets, so for similar round idea performance take a look at Russian WW2 tank ammo.
For clarification it has the hardened tip with an explosive filler behind the tip iirc from the fluff. Most bolt gun ammo is therefore a generalist round that can do a little bit of everything to a degree.
Does this help?

Scorpius=Sabot/HEATFS (CheatFS lol)
Banestrike=HEAT (cheaper grade)
Tempest=Canister/Air-burst
Kraken=APCR
Normal= APHE
Dragonfire=Willy Pete

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Which is the best type of Titan, and what are the coolest guns?

Personally I really like the shape of the Reaver, but the Warlord looks best stationary, since the Reaver seems to want to run. As for weapons, I've always been a fan of the Saturnyne Lascutter. Seems odd it doesn't have some form of Torrent, though, even just a 6" to allow better positioning.

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>>53346869
>Most bolt gun ammo is therefore a generalist round that can do a little bit of everything to a degree.
I agree with this statement, so long we remember armour developement has not been idle and has been improved over the 30000+ years so the old standards and thresholds are not that accurate anymore.

To me, bolts are like the evolution of a Raufoss bullet (Semi-Armour-Piercing High-Explosive Incendiary) that got married to the revival of the Gyrojet project, at least in the end effect if not the exact method (less anti-armor capability but far greater anti-personnel effect).

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What's a decent loadout for Contemptor dreads besides double-Kheres Mortis? Full melee? Stock?

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got a couple more options left to fill, anyone lend a hand?

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>>53347041
Apparently somewhere in the fluff they used to issue alternate ammo for the predator autocannon back in the Great Crusade/HH that were essentially autocannon caliber heavy bolter rounds. Shame we never got rules for that

>>53347420
You could easily make that a special DA unit, like a Predator version of Seekers/Destroyers.

That'd be rad.

>>53347141
Really depends on what your forces requires? Are you building the list around dreads or tacking dreads on? Contemptors are one of those mutable units for your army. Need AA/gun boat? Double Kheres Mortis. Distraction? Rip and tear Cortis in a pod. Infantry support? Contemptor with ranged and CC weapon of choice.

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What if instead of his hands Ferrus shoved his dick in the molten metal

>>53347420
:'(
Heavy 4 Str7 AP4 SHRED
>F

>>53345539
Thanks Anon. The goal whenever I paint is to get a decent tabletop standard with as little work as possible. In the future I'll be painting regular Custodians with Runelord Brass as a base, for that pale gold look, lead by dudes in a modified Warder-scheme (less gold/yellow/whatever, a very cool paintjob with greys and silvers rather than reds and golds thrown in. Maybe red plumes though)

>>53347420
>>53347468
To comment further on this Crunch-wise I understand why they didnt implement this because it would render the other turret variants of the Predator and even Sicaran superfluous.
Rad shells could be a niche however? Moves the tank to an Elite slot with it either being a single vehicle or a squadron of 2?
Tentative guess at statline:
Str 6 AP 3 heavy 4, gets hot, rending, rad-phage

Not sure, steps on the sicaran's toes a bit hard along with the plasma destroyer pred.

>>53347504
I actually like that better than the rad shell idea; hell maybe even a third ammo type you could buy that acts like an auto-cannon sized Scorpius round?
Str 8/9 AP2 heavy 1 Sunder?

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>>53347626
-> >>53347504

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>>53347701
Ooh an autocannon-sized Scorpius huh. I like that idea.
Went and digged up some alterate battlecannon-grade munitions for the IG armoured regiment to get ideas.
Whatever we propose, it should be different to Vanquisher rounds, but Sunder and Shred I'd like.

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Got a test model going. I'm pretty happy with how it turned out, although I know I need to pick up the layers. I'll work out the kinks as I go.

>>53335880
Oh yeah, I will. I just couldn't justify him at the moment. Besides, I like Sevatar more.

>>53335904
I agree, but my friends and I all tend to aim for army flavor when building lists.

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Anyone have the book flowchart for the various plots? I just finnished templar and i think thats the last of the impfists plot for now. Anyone suggest another plot line?

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>>53347503
[LOYALED]

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>>53347837
I prefer the older version of that.

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>>53348328
I recognize that bulge

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>>53348379
LOVE THE EMPEROR, FOR HE IS THE SALVATION OF HUMANITY

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>>53348331
Holy shit, that looks fucking awesome! I mean its a bit of paperwork, but you know what I would totally be cool with running that sort of stuff in a Campaign or something, capture a vehicle armoury and boom, you can outfit your Predator/Sicaran auto-cannons with alternate ammo cannisters, (gun uses an ammo drum every shooting phase when it fires) Anyone want to assist will fleshing this idea out?

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>>53348488
Additional munitions fuck yeah

>>53348488
Old FW were great. They had mountains of real-world detail like this in their books.

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>>53348488
Here, have actual Space Marine Ammo.

>>53348425
Dong Emperor of Dongkind

>>53348552
Post HH era ammo types for the chapters; leaves room open for the proposed ammo types. Fluff; something something specific forges on Deimos and Mars made the ammo, forges destroyed in Heresy, stocked used up by the end of the scouring with the predator cannon stocks also drying up.
I would make vanilla preds/sicarans in campaigns a meaner/cooler proposition. YMMV

>>53348631
Autocannon Sabot rounds for Armour Penetration, and Demolisher Thermobaric shells for Vindicators for simply blowing away entrenched foes in a blast of fire and vacuum effect.

>>53348074

Yea. Still, I have chaos raptors I'll use as night raptors. They look pretty cool with Chainglaives, actually.

>>53348631
Some form of canister cover-ignoring shot without Pinning

>>53348668
>>53348778
Keep tossing ideas my way; going to the gym so I will be back later.

Will compile everything then, oh and add suggested weapon stats. Thanks anons!

>>53348848
Autocannon Sabot Rounds would be single shot S8 Armourbane rounds for an Autocannon. Demolisher Thermobaric rounds could be S8, ignores cover, concussive and pinning blasts.

>>53347141

Double las seems to produce tangible results in battle reports, and will continue to be viable with 8ed changes.

>>53346869
>CheatFS
>Warthunder
Kill yourself

>>53348848
>Canister shot
Heavy 3 S6 AP5 Ignores Cover Small blast
>Bolt shell
Heavy 4 S7 AP4 Sunder Shred
>Penetrator round
Heavy 1 S8 AP2 Sunder. Something that makes it different to Vanquisher rounds.

>>53348074
M O L D
O
L I N E S
D

>>53338339
Well, in 8th ed. they'll penetrate carapace armor more often than they do now.

Also, penetrating power armor 1/3 of the time does count as "armor-piercing".

>>53339338
Scars/Path of Heaven have a TSon

>>53341795
>You need warriors and builders and politicans and all the shenanigans that make a good show, rather than just "I am a Marine, thus I win" that 40k would probably present.
I agree with your overall post, but the Great Crusade was the one period of time during which Marines came closest to always winning.

>>53343471
I love the black+brass. If you think it's too much, just use it on sergeants. But using it everywhere would be fine too.

>>53349988
Closest to always winning? The alien races encountered nearly always put up stiff resistance, on a macro scale humanity just had them out classed.

>>53350313
Every hostile encounter with xenos during the Great Crusade:
>marines land on planet
>scary aliens kill a few astartes to show how tough they are
>space marines genocide the species in the next paragraph so that the story can continue

>>53350493
Here let me edit that for you:

>Depicts how costly the battle was
>Depicts Humanity's manifest destiny
>Depict next alien species

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>>53350514
Ah, the good times. We must ha e genocided like a dozen Tau-equivalents with full legion deployments supported by Reductor maniples.
Then Horus thought the Crusade had ended, for some reason.

>>53350493
What about the Rangda? They wiped out at least one Lost Legion and the Emperor had to sic the Void Dragon on them. They nearly killed the Imperium stone dead.

>>53344236
>Magnus my Son
>I genetically engineered you to be my greatest psychically enhanced super warrior
>I sought out rare psychic individuals to create your legion
>We communicated through the warp before even meeting
>When we did meet it was on a rare planet where psykers are held in high regard and where you had ascended to the lead this civilization because of your psychic mastery
>Heres your legion btw they're pretty much fucked and if you dont fix them I'll kill them all and maybe you too
>Later
>After rising to lead your legion you attempted to teach the lessons you had learnt about the warp to anyone who wished, space marines and civilians alike
>However when some of your brothers reacted poorly to this I was forced to call together a gathering of my Sons to decided the matter
>Wait what Angron and Curze did what? Meh they'll be fine dont worry about it
>Anyway because of the strong arguments such as "I dont like it. Dad plz make him stop" I have decided to sanction you and ban you from using the warp
>I do this because I am very upset that you did the things I created and designed you to do despite this being clearly my intention in creating you
>Now I must leave to use my massive psychic might to finish my ultimate creation
>This is not hypocritical at all btw
>Wait bring you along or fill you in? Why would I do that?
>I see no reason why you might reject this new order or try to prove me wrong despite you being perhaps the most arrogant and self assured of my Sons
>Goodbye and I now send out chaplains to guard against the use of psychic powers in the legions except to yours of course
>Because I trust you

Truly Magnus's betrayal could not have been foreseen nor avoided.

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>>53350877

>>53350775
True but it's only noteworthy for being an exception. It's just a footnote anyway.

>>53344236
No better or worse than most HH books.
It is annoying that it went from "we are desperate, but the city will hold" to "were doomed" in few pages. Also first murder demon is over the top retarded. Custodes are masters of edge, not eaven NL can come close.
But the part when Emperor kicks ass is great.

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Doing some more work to my Hetaeron Guard before cleaning and painting them. Litte extra details here and there.

Added in the Tribune too, thinking I'll paint them like normal Custodians but make the inner lauldrons black and the gems red.

can i get a first list rating? let me know if i missed something terribly important

imperial fist

hq
>centurion
bolter, plasma pistol, solarite power fist, refractor field, and artificer armor

elites
>veteran tactical squad x2
extra dudes, vexilla, combi-meltas x4 - power fist, and artificer armor

troops
>tactical squads x2
extra melee weapons for everyone, nuncio vox, vexilla - power weapon, metla bomb, artificer armor

>dedicated transport
>rhinos x4
dozer blades and multi-meltas

fast attack
>primaris lightning fighter
kraken missiles x2, battle servitor control, ground tracking auguries

>javelin attack squad
+2 javs, multi meltas

heavy support
>deredeo dread
aiolos missile launcher

>whirlwind scorpius

2000 points total

>>53351376
Upgrade the centurion to a Praetor. Drop the tac and vet squad art armor. Take lascannons on the Deredeo. Maybe: Instead of a scorpius take a vindicator or two

>>53351376
Your centurion has nowhere to go. He should be in a unit-by taking one less dude in a vet squad, he can fit in the rhino. You don't need him shooting, and plasma pistols are expensive and bad, so you can save ~20 points by dropping them.

Melta is less efficient in 30k than 40k, i would reccomend taking one unit with combi-melta and one unit with combi-plasma.

You don't need nuncio voxes very much, and vexillas are generally only worth it on 20-man footslogging units. A Power Axe is the best budget power weapon on sargeants, and will be so in 8th ed, whenever that reaches 30k.

I would take something other than MMelta javelins, since they excel at long-range harrassment of mid-level AV with missiles/lascannons and getting them in range for the melta leaves them a priority target. Plus they're insanely expensive in real money.

I would swap the scorrpius and voxes for a Vindicator, as the scorpius is primarily anti-infantry and you have lots of that, whereas a vindicator is anti-everything.

You could take four units of veterans as your troops instead of two tacs and two vets by choosing a consul role for your centurion and making it a Delegatus, who can use Rites of War like Pride of the Legion.

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>>53349012
why tho? I only play aircraft, never really bothered with tonks. Interest in how the vehicle design of tonks evolved however.
>>53349025
>>53348903
I like these a bunch; for that thermobaric shot I figure it would have shit AP due to thermobarics naturally being poor for AP duties; they demolish structures like no one's business as well.
Thermobaric Demolisher Round:
Str 8, AP 5, ignores cover, concussive, pinning, 5" blast.
>Canister shot
>Heavy 3 S6 AP5 Ignores Cover Small blast
>Bolt shell
>Heavy 4 S7 AP4 Sunder Shred
>Penetrator round
>Heavy 1 S8 AP2 Sunder.

Love all of these; would consider letting the sicaran use these as well, add rending to them if thats the case or some other rule to represent the increased velocity from the Heracles auto-cannon

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>>53351810
fuck, actually no dont let sicaran use the ammo; no point to have a pred then.

>>53351810
I would keep it less than s8 to avoid giving marines ID on large blasts, thats Leman Russ duty, maybe make it s7 and an anti-fort version of armourbane.

How would you cost them?

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Test model, is it ok ?

>>53352094
its ok

>>53352094
That's exactly what it is.

>>53352094
Boring. You'll probably kill yourself if you are going to paint an entire army like that

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>tfw you don't have nearly enough sword/pistol arms for your vanilla terror squads so you have to use bolter arms and pay the 2ppm for bolters because you also don't have enough Volkite

It's a spooky kind of feeling

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>>53352094
Looks tabletop standard to me. Maybe do something about the eyes and figure out how to do hazard stripes and you'll be solid.

>>53351909
Hmmm....your right on that; as for the anti-fortification bit of it, this rule:

>Fortress Razer: If this weapon is used against a building and hits, roll 2D6 for amour penetration

As for cost I havent the slightest god damn clue. Originally the idea I had was for campaign missions as a cheeky little add on for raiding excess supplies, (or laying siege to a fortress) since there is a fluff bit on Predator cannons having alternate ammo instead of plainjane auto-cannon rounds. So essentially a limited supply of specialist ammo the player can divide into what gets what.

>Player takes vehicle armoury
>Roll 2D6 for cases of specialty ammo for Predator/Vindicator
>rolled 7
>Player chooses to put 2 different drums of ammo, (one of each type selected) onto 2 Predators, leaving 3 drums for 3 vindicators.
>Use a drum every shooting phase the affected weapon fires the alternate ammo load
>Player can stockpile or use specialist ammo as desired until they run out then need to hit a neutral armoury for example or as a mission reward

How does that sound? Like using DAoT relics, just keep it friendly in campaign missions or even beerhammer games if so desired. I dont care much about how you use it or if you do; think it is a neat fluffy idea

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>>53352257
>boltpistol+chainsword options everywhere, but never enough bits to field them
>neither FW or GW sells chainsword/pistol sets individually
>even jump packs can be bought in sets

I know why they don't, but that doesn't mean that we don't suffer because of it.

>>53337799
I suspect the real reason is because GW wants people to buy primaris marines.

>>53352348
I know. It's annoying as hell. You can't even get the non-bent arms to use. The HH sprues only have 1 set for the sgts and that's it.

>>53352257
You should give your Terror squad volkites anyways.

Guys, what's the difference between thinning the paint with water and thinning with GW medium? Does it mix better or something? Dry faster/slower?

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>>53352348
>not buying Anvil Industries cheap yet flawless chainaxes
And if you don't have a shit load o various bolt pistols from your bitz box, you're doing it wrong.
They're (soon to be) Carcharodons but you can see the chainaxes from here. They're cheap, flawless, barely any flash if any, and you can choose which hand you want them for.

>>53346679
cut of the wrist ring, model on the vambrace and fill in the detail on the forearm.

>>53347007
I've never seen any of the titans posed in particularly dynamic ways desu, one of the reasons why I'm not super into getting them.I understand that no one wants to balance their 13000 USD and firstborn resin model on a tippy toe ontop of angron, but still.

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>>53352548
I mean you can if you have a jeweler saw and if you're careful. Those are standards mk3 plastic bolter arms, cut where it needs to be for the arm to look good whil alsonot being illogical because of plate placement. That forearm plate has to be taken into account.

>>53352552

It's a matter of quantity, though. I can only make 2 squads of 10 with Volkite, or 1 10 and 2 5s, which is hardly a good use of NL rules where you want to outnumber the opponent.

>>53352617
At best I have an x-acto knife. Will that work maybe?

>>53352732
It'll take you ages and even with a jeweler saw, that is paper thin, you end up fucking up sometimes so a knife is basically a no go.
Just buy a saw on amazon for like less 10 quids or less. Unless you need your arms for tonight, you can wait a week, and then get to work and start cuting when it arrives.

>>53352586
With acrylic matte medium - doesn't have to be GW's - you get a more even glaze that doesn't pool up like watered down paint.

>>53352589
Not everyone has a decade of accumulated bits. The few surplus bolt-pistols I had have been used to outfit some new officers. Demand outstrips supply.

Also, not everyone has access to chainaxes either.

>>53352429
I wonder if this is a bad time to get into heresy-era Astartes. In five years they might look pretty puny.

There are already scaling problems - sisters of silence are about as tall.

>>53352767
Models have always been getting improved on, this is just the most drastic change we've seen yet. I still have some metal terminators that are the derpiest looking things since dreadknights.

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>>53352763
>Decades
I started less than a year ago bruv.
My kits are 2 tacs squads, 1 command squad (ths one has loads of pistols, albeit 40k ones) 1 assault, 1 devastator, BaC and BoP marines and that's about it. Still, that gives me a solid base to start from.

Second, as I said, Anvil Industry chainaxes are delivered all over the world, flawless, and cheap as fuck, I mean come on 3.50 pounds for 6:
http://anvilindustry.co.uk/The-Armoury/Close-Combat-Weapons/chain-axes

Same goes for their pistol. The heretic ones, bottom on pic related are cool imo. Top ones might be a wee bit too futuristic.
If only some of the weapons of your dudes are 3rd party you don't risk much.

>>53352589
>playing marinelets in 2017