Close Combat Weapons

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>>53322458

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>>53322475

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>>53322458
>no chain axe profile
For fuck's sake GW stop teasing me

>>53322497
CHAINSWORDS DO SOMETHING

provided the fluff isn't too fucked up by nu-marines this is the best edition since 2nd.

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>>53322497

>>53322501
If it's got the Chainsword rule AND -1AP Berzerkers are back on the menu.

>>53322515
lame

>>53322515
I like. Makes sense that 'slower' weapons would be easier to dodge

>>53322501
>>53322520
I was thinking it would have +1 strength instead of an AP bonus

>>53322475
Awesome, power swords return as terminator-killers after spending two editions worthless against 2+ saves

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>D3 Damage is good, but if you really want to kill something, try the reaper chainsword. This deals a flat 6 Damage to whatever it wounds. That’s enough to carve a Chaos Lord in half, and a couple of hits will wreck most small and medium vehicles in a single Fight phase.

Chaos Lords confirmed for 6 wounds. How do chaosanons feel about that?

These changes make me hopeful that genestealers will be able to rip open terminators like they do in the fluff.

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>>53322572
>the reaper chainsword
Is this new Eviscerator? Or vehicle weapon?

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>CCW like the Chainsword gain an additional attack
>mfw

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>>53322475
Fingers crossed Furious Charge will still be a thing and that Straken will still give out a bubble of it. I'm hoping for Glorious 5th edition charges again where Sergeants with Power Swords were meat grinders.

>>53322572
Six feels a little on the low side but that's probably before upgrades like terminator/artificer armor or marks and we don't know their saves yet either. This is probably also what an unmodified loyalist chapter master/captain will have for wounds too.

>>53322604
It's the Strength D weapon on the Knights.

>>53322604
Melee of Imperial Knight titan. Its currently Destroyer weapon.

>>53322604
Knight weapon fuckstain

>>53322610
When you consider Guilliman has 9, 6 isn't too surprising.

>>53322631
Oh, Guilliman has 9? I must have missed that reveal then. In that case 6 actually sounds a lot better.

>>53322475
>>53322555
wait what the shit is this true

what the fuck man, why did they flip the script on power weapons and dick around with their AP values, it doesn't even make sense. an axe should have more AP than a sword. this can't be right, are you just reading it wrong?

somebody explain this to me. if this is true, REEEEEEEE god dammit I don't want to switch around my power weapons to gayer looking ones that make no sense

>>53322572
6 or fewer.

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>>53322653
It was one of the first

>>53322679
I'm surprised that with modifiers coming back he doesn't have 1+ desu.

>>53322658
Swords have more ap but no str bonus
Axes are AP 2 but with a +1 str bonus
Mails are AP 1 but with +2 str bonus

It is a little backwards in my opinion, but, whatever

>>53322541
They already have furious charge so it's unlikely, but hey they can take an assault out of a rhino now as well

>>53322700
>>53322658
I feel like axes are fine where they are but swords and hammers should be switched

Hammers should be the armor beaters

Swords are light and can be wielded more effectively with leverage

>>53322658
The axe is still slightly better against meqs but equal to the sword against teqs if I recall correctly.

The sword is the generalist weapon, the axe is for heavy infantry, and the maul is for light infantry and monstrous creatures.

>>53322658

It's called "game balance". The sword has a higher rend value then the axe but lower strength so that all three weapons have a niche.

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>>53322520
>chain weapons get an extra attack
>daemons of khorne confirmed for getting an extra attack as part of their devotion so it's not too much of a stretch to assume mark of khorne will do the same
>mfw needing a literal wheelbarrow full of dice to make assaults next edition

>>53322458
They've gotten rid of Power Lances from the looks of it.

>>53322700
fuckin ell

whatever seems like axes are possibly still better anyway. I'd probably rather wound easier and make a space marine take a 6+ he won't pass than have no armor save but a harder time wounding. maybe, idk I haven't read any of this leaked shit. I will admit it's kinda cool that power swords are actually finally useful against things that aren't troops or placeholder HQs

>>53322758
Were there even any power lances modelled? I have never seen them used.

>>53322757
Now if they could just give us new Zerkers. The FW upgrade kit has been unavailable for some time now.

>>53322758
well thank g*d I never took those power lances on my champions for fun purposes like I was considering in early 7th only to get fucked over by GW again

>>53322758
Well no-one used them so I can see why, I always thought the idea was pretty cool though. If I ever collected white scars I definitely model a command squad on bikes with all lances.

>>53322739
Mace's don't pierce armor, they beat the shit out of the thing wearing it. Granted swords don't either but they are probably used to go for the weak points in armor, like an estoc.

>>53322739
Hammers wound easily, which is in line with their real word effects. You won't pierce someone's armor with a mace or a hammer (unless it's a bec de Corbin's something like that) but you will discombobulate. If their armor isn't proof against such a weapon they'll be terribly wounded. Imagine a padded maille coif vs a mace = head bashed in. Vs a helm a disorienting effect, neck strain, and perhaps unconsciousness but not death.

>>53322758
They probably just didn't list them. They didn't list chainaxes either despite explicitly mentioning them before this in another reveal.

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Death company marines look like they will benefit a lot, assuming BA don't get squattted of course.

>>53322778
there are a lot of bits that pass for power lance like a gray knight halberd, not sure what kit actually came with any, if there even are any

an easy thing to do is just take a CSM icon arm and pin a power sword blade to the top of it.

>>53322814
They explicitly stated that was the power weapon lineup, It's safe to assume that if a model can take a "power weapon" then it can chose from either axe/maul/sword and lances hve to be specifically mentioned as an option, if they do still exist.

>>53322835
I hope they are really good against tyranids.

>>53322758
>>53322778
>>53322808
>>53322809

Power lances never got used because most assault units couldn't risk getting caught with perma AP4 against an armored unit. The world eaters formation from traitor legions actually makes power lances a very attractive option on all your fast units though

>>53322475
How does the maul not do more damage to armour than a Fucking sword? Does gw not understand how blunt weapons work

>>53322809
>>53322778
>>53322758

Don't rough riders use em? And they've mentioned rough riders in the astra militarum faction focus.

I tried power lances on a vanguard squad for fun once (not modeled). They were actually pretty good as a clean up unit. St5 ap3 attacks at initiative was pretty brutal to other marines. Usually wiped the enemy in the first round.

>>53322880
Rough Riders use a "hunting lance", it's basically a bomb on the end of a stick and is separate from a "power lance".

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>give helbrute thunder hammer
>charge IC since he can't attach to squads now
>I go first
>I only need a 3 or 4+ to hit regardless
>S10
>concussive
>next turn I go first again
>dead chapter master

somehow I don't think it works like this but I kinda hope it does

>>53322497
>finally all the units with the option to exchange pistols for chainswords make sense

>>53322458
It's nice to have confirmation that my klaives are now just slightly better power swords instead of the awesome weapon they were but hey, a Dark Eldar player complaining is like a landwhale wondering why they can't lose weight while horking down their third quarter pounder.

All I have to do to stop the suffering is play marines. I have no one to blame but myself.

>>53322900
Man, I love hunting with a dynamite tipped spear. Just like the old days.

>>53322878
It's the ability of the weapon to actually bypass the armor. Mauls, hammers, maces, they rarely actually get by the armor, but rather apply shock. The whole reason why maces were so popular in the late medieval period was because you wanted to get your opponent on the ground so you could finish them with a blade to the face or the groin or arm pit. The mace was fantastic at doing that to armored opponents.

Here's hoping units all get power WEAPON options and not just what they have in the kit. If so, I might need to start an ecclesiastical crusader force... Though swords are decent anyways.

>>53322909
We dont really know anything yet for sure, these teasers dont offer a complete picture

>>53322515
>vast majority of power fists will hit on 4+ or 5+
>can never hit on 2+

So... are fists dead?

>>53322878
power weapons have a Monomolecular Forcefield™ at different power levels so it could be argued that power swords put all the power into the field, while mauls spend some power making it hit harder so it has more force but less molecule-splitting sharpness

>>53322953
It's meant for shit that don't dodge

>>53322964
Point. Bladed power weapons are literally cutting forcefields. Blunt power weapons are just tearing through shit.

>>53322953
the majority of power fists attacks in 7th hit at a 4+ so probably not. and it seems like hidden power fist is back because muh wound allocation

inb4 CSM still has the retarded champion rule that makes all sergeants suicidal idiots

>>53322901
With the way initiative AND unwieldy are being replaced, I expect the Thunder Hammer's rules will also see some big changes

>>53322857
These are just the basic power weapon lineup.

They didn't mention things like Ork Power Klaws unless GW have suddenly decided to make Ghazkull and Meganobz useless.

>>53322901
>S10
i think you mean S12 brother

>>53322932
Pic related is a modern harpoon cannon. The harpoon has an explosive warhead that detonates after entering the flesh about a meter while the barbs prevent the animal from sinking.

I imagine rough rider lances to be like that, but on the end of lances rather than a shot harpoon.

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>>53323019
Forgot pic

>>53323002
vehicles ignore unwieldy now so I'm assuming they will still do so in 8th. I hope so, why should a giant mech give a shit about unwieldy

>>53323005
oh yeah I forgot

wew lad

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>>53322878
Why do you think they got higher str. but little AP?

Sword has a pointy end which enables you to put a lot of force into a small area, making it very convenient in thrusting into weak spots and shit.

>>53322658
You can aim a sword point at the weak spots in armor much better then an axe. ...but that begs the question, can you half sword with a power weapon? Do power sword quillons have a power field so you can mordhau? If so Power Swords might actually be more awesome then lightsabers.

>>53323056
It's unfortunately unlikely due to the power fields ripping your hand apart

>>53323035
Unwieldy is being removed entirely. If a big thing's use of a weapon is supposed to differ from the norm, I expect the stats will be listed under the model's profile

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I'm really hoping GW throws out a Dogs of War style army with the new edition

>>53322658
I'm actually stoked as an imperial fists 30k player. It means my phalanx warders could be awesome with effectively s5 t5 5+invuln in close combat.

>>53323079
wat

I thought unwieldy = -1 to hit

>>53323079
Like the power fist is listed as being -1 to hit to represent its large and slow nature.

>>53323083
>rogue traders coalitions
imagine

>>53323083
Kroot, vespid, rak'gol, rogue traders, beast men and other mutants, maybe human corsairs, to professional but independent units with equipment ranging from primitive to exotic imperial tech.

>>53322953
>can never hit on 2+
because there are no positiv to hit mods?

>>53322970
So... drop pods can be hit more easily?

>>53322999
Yeah, and now all those are 5+.

Can't wait for IG sergeant to pay 25pts. for two S6 AP-3 swings that hit on 6+.

>>53322953
Marine with sword vs marine

(2/3), hit (1/2) wound (5/6) aren't saved
=0.277 wounds per attack

With fist
(1/2) hit (5/6) wound (5/6) aren't saved
=0.347 d3 wounds

So even against the basic heavy infantry, fists are superior, against multi-wound shit like nu-marines it isn't even a contest anymore. If anything fists are signficantly more viable now, without striking last anymore there's no downside to fists compared to swords baring the points cost, unless you're fighting 1 wound t3 models.

>>53323125
It certainly makes fist guard sergeants less an auto include but still a potentially dangerous prospect for the enemy.

>>53323129
But what's the points per wound? I bet swords will be more efficient against meqs, axes even more so.

>>53323122
Ok, "can never hit on 2+ outside of a very specific situation/special rule."

>>53323168
like not wearing a power fist?

>>53323074
Maybe an area on the back of the blade could have a reduced power field that combined with power armor gauntlets permits half swording? *Headcanon established* I'm totally modeling this.

>>53323125
He's going to have 4+ to hit. so he would hit on a 5+ with a fist. And S6 now means you are wounding T7-T11 on a 5+ plus the damage rating means you still do multi-wounds to things that aren't t3, unlike currently where it's instagib a rival colonel, 1 wound only to everything else. Assuming points costs remain close to how they are it's still not a good use of 25pts, but it is better in almost every way than it is currently in 7th.

>>53322610
I think 6 would actually be a lot. I'd expect closer to 4 or 5 personally. Chaos lords weren't exactly shrugging off Lascannons before without a bike

>>53323175
>Power fist can never hit on 2+ outside of a very specific situation/special rule, like not wearing a power fist.

I guess that makes sense.

>>53323168
hasn't that been the norm for a lot of years?

>>53322572
>in half

Clearly a Chaos Lord has 12 wounds.

Assuming the Orks Power Klaw has the same profile as the power fist... I am okay with this.

I'm guessing Ork chainchoppas/regular choppas fall under the same umbrellas chain sword as well.

Either way, I do like the last line here:
>Make no mistake, when facing a dedicated melee unit, stuff is going to die in combat really, really fast.

>>53322901
You can't attach an IC to units, but you CAN surround an IC with another unit, making it so you don't have any clear line to charge him, and thus necessitating killing the bodyguard unit first.

Does the ap value carry over from infantry to vehicles meaning the power sword is reducing the armour save of a russ to a 6+?

>>53323206
>He's going to have 4+ to hit

Didn't a leaked To Hit chart make it so that same WS = 4+; higher WS than target = 3+; double WS or greater than target = 2+; lower WS than target = 5+; and half the WS or lower than target = 6+? So if he's swinging at anything with hither WS than 3, he'd hit on 5+. which is downgraded to a 6+.

>>53323230
>chainsword marines are now actually useful in CC

cautiously optimistic. if this means assault marines and berzerkers are as deadly as their shooting counterparts now then aw snap

>>53323289
Yes?

>>53322909
So it's like 5th edition?

Not bad, though I can't see the benefit of maul/axe over a sword, especially in a MEQ-heavy environment

>>53323290
No. WS been removed. It's just "hits on X+" now.

>>53323289
Yeah, a power sword cuts through the armor of a leman russ like butter, but there's so much mass you have to do a lot of hacking anyway.

Wish they would've included a couple of xeno weapons or at least other specialist weapons like lightning claws.

>>53323290
Not even remotely. Models have a set WS to hit on just like BS

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>>53323290
Are you thinking of the to wound chart?

>>53323346
Xeno weapons are basically renamed equivelents of all these weapons. Powerklaw=Powerfist and Choppa=Chainsword.

So d weapons are now automatically 6 wounds, and you think Eldar will be nerfed? Lmao

>>53323365
Choppas aren't remotely like chainswords.

>>53323399
In 7th edition they had the same stats, UserS, Ap-Null.

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>>53323352
N-no...

>>53323424
Well obviously, everything from a toothpick to a (none force) halberd used those stats.

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HRUD WHEN

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>>53323496
HRUD GET OUT REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>53322679
>primarch
>str6
>t6
Boy I'm glad I dumped this shit hobby when I did.

>>53322953
>So... are fists dead

There's no initiative now, so they're actually way better.

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>>53323399
>Choppas aren't remotely like chainswords.
>What is a chain-choppa, which has always had the same stats as a regular choppa

>>53323561
That's what most of them have in the horus heresy ruleset too. Glad we lost another that's into the marine wankfest.

>>53323587
If choppas are chainswords, that makes that a chainchainsword.

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>>53323587
>tfw orks still won't be able to take power axes in 8th ed even though they have axes modelled with the magic power boxes

>>53323613
>horus heresy rule set
Another fucking mess of a system with lore that makes anyone who actually grew up with this game want to fucking vomit.
You're welcome to it cuck.
Enjoy your covered up daemonettes and "BUT PRIMARCHES ARE JUST NORMALS PEOPLES HUUUURRR, WHAT DO YOU MEAN SANGUINIUS HELD THE ETERNAL GATE ON HIS OWN OH TAHTS JUST A MYTH XD" game fag.

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>>53323587
Pic related.

>>53323613
So much this.

>>53323653
Get a hold of yourself. You sound like that guy to be honest. Ugh.

>>53323686
>taht guy
>posting memes from 2012
I bet you liked sisters of silence and thought it was an original and BADASS idea you fucking whedon cuck.

>>53323110
God i wish...

>>53323652
They might make big choppas something like that

>>53323701
I don't really care about them. While I'm monetarily and time invested in the game, I'm not that emotionally invested. Give it up fatty.

>>53322700
>It is a little backwards in my opinion, but, whatever
>>53322739
Historically, armor was best defeated by stabbing with pointy objects. Axes started changing to have points, and swords got either much larger (two-handed) or got thinner in order to stab between plates. It was a bad time for slashing weapons.

>>53323561
>>53323653
Because the stats and rules have always been meant to represent perfectly the power of the different units and weapons, right?
Can you show me the one out of six people that is able to survive a direct hit from a missile?

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Wut

>>53323739
>being this pathetic
Yeah you did. You dumb fuck. You have shit taste. I@m trying to tell you that. Your taste is the equivalent of Joss Whedon. You probably thought Buffy was deep and intelligent and your favorite film is Cabin in the Woods because AHAHAHA ITS SO FUNNY.
It's niggers like you that worship fucking Dan Abnett. You just have the absolute WORST taste. You are the fat fucking yank that walks into a fine dining restaurant and orders a well done steak with ketchup.

>>53323799
Where the fuck is this from?

>>53323653
Good lord, don't let you autism run free like that anon.

>>53323811
Imperial Knight Army Focus

>>53323811
The Knight faction focus
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/19/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-imperial-knights/

>>53323087
Dude they already said 30k will be stuck with old shit rules. No upgrades for you.

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>>53323352

Anyone else disappointed by how Power Mauls are straight up worse than axes vs T4 stuff. At least you could say they wounded on a 2+ vs a 3+.

I just want Power Mauls to not feel like pic related every time I use them.

>>53323794
the sixth person was lucky enough to only get a sliver of shrapnel

>>53323799
>detachments are totes gone, u gais

>>53323805
Lol, love it. Keep going. Give yourself a coronary. None of what you said is true or matters. Haha.

>>53323561
Then what the fuck are you doing here, shitstain?

>>53323836
Stick for now. Because they don't have 8e rules for anything. Seeing how long it takes for FW to write a few unit entries, redoing everything will take a few years.

>>53323845
Mauls are better on/against S3 stuff tho

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>>53323855

>>53323854
>none of what you said is true
Is it fuck. Dan Abnett and Mcneil and all the other shite tier writers made this niggertry up.
>B-but everyone wants us to move on teh plot OH MY GOD WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO
>LETS BRING BACK PRIMARCHES BUT MAKE THEMM GENERIC SPACE MARINE CAPTAINS
>Holy shit Dan I'm fucking glad you're here. All our Whedoncucks are gonna love this shit.

>>53323897

They ARE better vs T3, but I would argue that at present, T4 is much more common. It's becoming a little less so, but wherever I go T4 is the standard.

>>53323897
>>53323845
Mauls are for swatting GEQ, Swords are for shanking MCs &Termies and axes are for everything else is the basic gist of it?

>>53323925
You are not wrong, but
>>53323954
has the real right of it. Haveing said that, some anon ran he numbers, and the sword is only a little better than the axe vs TEQ, and the maul is only a little better than the axe vs GEQ, whilst the axe is a LOT better than both at most everything else

>>53323653
You're such a retard, dude.

T6 is two whole values higher than a normal Space Marine. Remember that these are extremely broad values (i.e. humans and eldar are both represented by S3, despite eldar being able to jump several meters straight up and casually shatter human bones with their unarmed strikes) and therefore each step up is pretty huge.

>>53324022
>man who survived getting stood on by warlord titan
>t6
>yeah that makes sense xD
Oh m8... You are a fucking moron. It's funny. It really is.
Bringing back primarches was the stupidest fucking thing GW has EVER done. And I'm including Warhammer Age of Niggmar in that.

>>53323852
Formations are the ones that are gone. Force organisation charts are still in. Sorry for ruining your shitpost though.

>>53324073
>man who survived getting stood on by warlord titan

That's what Invulnerable saves are for.

>Age of Niggmar

Opinion invalidated. /pol/ is to your left, don't let the door hit you on your way out.

>>53323799
SO. MANY. BANEBLADES.

>>53323983
What about against t5 and t6 stuff? Do you have a refrence chart we can refer to?

>>53324113
>invuln save
Oh lord... You're not even trying anymore.

>/pol/
Wow the memes are real. I'm sorry you can't handle adult language whedoncuck.

Has mathammer been adjourned with the new wound chart?
I'd like to see how this would work with the Frost Weapons if they are kept the same and I can't currently use excel (or pen and paper) to find out myself

>>53323852
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/05/new-warhammer-40000-battle-forged-armiesgw-homepage-post-4/

It's Formations that are gone. Detachments are part of how they're doing the command point/stratagem mechanics.

>>53323902
It's not. I don't care about that stuff m8. your too invested, emotionally, in something that doesn't really affect your life. It's not like the game changes who you're friends with, how much taxes you pay, your ability to travel, or anything like that. It's merely a story that you used to like. Just calm down.

>>53322757
did the marks ever give the literal same ability as the Daemon rule?

>>53324176
You're *

>>53324201
Never said any of that. Didn't say not to care about anything. I said you're caring too much about something that has a near net zero effect on your life. It's the kind of thing that makes everyone feel sorry for you.

>>53324231
Stop taking the fucking bait.

>>53324257
Guess you're right. So back on target, I'm really enthused about close combat because it will be about as risky as before but with better pay off. The weapons seem done right as well.

>>53322872
>>53322809

I just modeled my Raptor Lord with a power lance (I figured if you're flying above people you'd want a weapon with reach) and a sergeant with a power-axe so there was something that could take the challenge vs TEQs.

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>inb4 choppas have innate -1 to hit because big clumsy slabs of scrap metal
I'm sorry orkbros, this was supposed to be your edition...

>>53324277
It's really to be seen how risky it's actually going to be
Unless they keep the "can't assault out of (most) vehicles" rule assaulting may be pretty simple unless the opponent doesn't take as many high S high D weapons as he can
With the rules with seen till now you may assault with the unit dedicated trasport, have it soak the overwatch with it's high T and W, reach combat and than assault with the actual assault unit, with the opponent's unit unable to fire overwatch

>>53324345
>inb4 choppas have innate -1 to hit but caps enemy saves at 4+ because big slabs of scrap metal

>>5332438
So like this:?
Vehicle: So drive up
Squad: Disembark
Vehicle: Shoot what it can
Squad: Shoot what it can
Vehicle: (Tank shock) Assault enemy and absorb overwatch shooting.
Squad: Assault same unit with no risk of taking overwatch fire.

Can vehicles now assault in the assault phase?

>>53324439
Meant for >>53324386

>>53324449
Yup, it was described in yesterday's vehicle article

>>53324439
>Can vehicles now assault in the assault phase?
Yes.

>>53324477
That... changes... everrrrything!

>>53324121
Mathhammering it out real quick (assuming attacker is S4):

VS toughness 3 models
with a 6+ save maul is the best
with a 5+ save maul is the best
with a 4+ save sword is the best
with a 3+ save sword is the best

VS toughness 4 models
with a 6+ save axe and maul are equal
with a 5+ save axe is the best
with a 4+ save axe is the best
with a 3+ save sword is the best
with a 2+ save sword and axe are equal

VS toughness 5 models
with a 6+ save maul is the best
with a 5+ save maul is the best
with a 4+ save maul is the best
with a 3+ save maul and axe are equal
with a 2+ save axe is the best

VS toughness 6 models
with a 6+ save maul is the best
with a 5+ save maul is the best
with a 4+ save maul is the best
with a 3+ save sword is the best
with a 2+ save sword is the best

VS toughness 7 models
with a 6+ save all are equal
with a 5+ save sword and axe are equal
with a 4+ save sword is the best
with a 3+ save sword is the best
with a 2+ save sword is the best

VS toughness 8 and 9 models
with a 6+ save maul is the best
with a 5+ save maul is the best
with a 4+ save axe is the best
with a 3+ save axe is the best
with a 2+ save axe is the best

>>53323129
thanks for crunchin the numbas anon

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>all these new rules make me want to get into the hobby again but its simply too expensive

>>rogue traders coalitions

Fuck I didn't realise how much I wanted this until you said it

>>53324557
What's the armor save assumption for the target?

>>53324281
I just envisioned a raptor lord boosting down to stab a space marine like a final fantasy dragoon. I love it.

>>53324581
You only need one box of dudes to play Shadow War: Armageddon

>>53324557
What about with a S+1 power sword and a S+2 power axe?

>>53324607
Nm I'm retarded

>power fists no longer striking last
>terminators getting 2 wounds
>still hitting of 4s
>cause D3 wounds
>destroy msq armor saves
>rumored assault 3 storm bolters
>charging outta fee strike.
Yo 8th is starting to look really freaking good for my deathwing Ravenwing army, all I can hope now is that belial is not shit.

>>53324557
Thanks anon, this is pretty intresting. May the dice gods favor you.

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>>53324281
>>53324688
man the fact that power lances were so shit in 6th/7th was a true crime, so many cool modelling opportunities. dragoon raptors also sounds cool. wish they would actually fix it in 8th instead of just scrapping it, the power lance was a complete failure its entire time in the game.

but I too had a raptor lord with a power lance. well until I accidentally melted him before I finished painting

>>53324557
Pretty close.

Maul is equal or better in 13 situations
Axe Is equal or better in 11 situations
Sword is equal or better in 11 situations

I'm happy with this.

>>53322909
>Whining about superior power weapons

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>>53324397
>inb4 choppas have innate -1 to hit but caps enemy saves at 4+ because big slabs of scrap metal
Considering that the "Zog yo' armor, you take 4+ save" was a still a thing back in 4e (and as I understand was a thing going as far back as 2nd or 3rd), I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case.

>>53324810
I'd be happy with a +1/user -3/-1 star for the power lance. So you still get some kind of armor modifier for having a power weapon after the charge.

>>53324856

>ork choppa

>S user, AP -1

>>53323303
>>53323230
Well the extra attack for two weapons rule is probably gone and we know the extra attack on the charge is gone. Instead you have shooting pistols in melee and the chainsword rules. Still that's 3 attacks every turn for most melee troops assuming the chainsword thing is somewhat universal to choppas, etc.

>>53324893
Stat*

>>53324557
What about fists?

>>53324820

I guess it really does depend on who you're fighting and what you intend for your melee units to fight most of the time.

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>>53324517
Yup. Particularly nice for Orks and DE who actually can kit up their vehicles to be stronger in melee. Also explains how you deliver your Wyches into CC.

>>53322572
Too bad space marine captains will have 10 wounds amirite.

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>>53324345
Nah. That will be Big Choppas. Besides, Chainchoppas are a thing.

>>53324337
Have fun watching something you love be destroyed I guess. :/

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>>53323902
>Hates new models, game and fluff
>has nothing better to do in life then let everyone know that loudly.

Serious question, why stay? Are you hopeing some miracle rekindles your love for 40k, and are so desperate to see it you sit thru what you hate for even the slightest chance something will rescue you?

>>53324127
Adult language lmao

You must live the most miserable existence spending all of your finite life worrying about cucks and your fragile masculinity being threatened. If you're trolling güd job, made me reply.

If genuine, please end your life now. You obviously have no objective value to anybody or society.

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>>53323653
>primachs are as strong and tough as an MC.
>same amount of wounds too
>IT'S NOT POWERFUL ENOUGH!?!?! FUCK EVERYTHING THIS MAKES ME SICK
you sir need to get medicated

>>53325287
>>53325256
>>53325232
Stop taking the bait faggots.

>>53322835
That would mean the Tyranids won against something important though.
It's never going to happen.

>>53325323
>>53325256
>>53325287

Didn't you ever read "When you give a mouse a cookie." When you were kids? This is the same thing but "When you give a troll a (you)." Stop before he has enough (you)'s to end us all!

>>53325417
>waah waah, GW has only let us destroy one faction so far, why do BA-fags still get to be in the game

>>53325418
anon, i think you fail to see the point.
if properly prodded you can get something interesting out of him, like gay dark angels
also he's wrong
i hate people being wrong

>>53325444
what is this BA squatted meme shit?

>>53325462
People are retarded.

>>53325462
>Amongst the besieged Imperial worlds in this Dark Imperium are many Space Marine Chapter Planets, including Baal, home of the Blood Angels. Things were already looking pretty grim for the sons of Sanguinius, with a hive fleet closing in on them, and now it looks even bleaker. Cut off from the light of Terra, the Angels and their Successors stand unbowed against the might of Hive Fleet Leviathan, hoping they can withstand the storm.


>Yipes, the Blood Angels sound like they are in trouble. This isn’t the first time they have triumphed against impossible odds though, can they make it out alive? We’ll have to see.

It's clearly a set up for a desperate last stand that ends in a pyrrhic victory, but >>53325417 whine because they want the nids to be superior and a whole bunch of people's armies to be obsolete so they can wank off about how powerfull their favourite space bugs are.

>>53325546
yeah that sounds like unadulterated BS considering GW was heaping new shit on them rather recently.
I'd imagine it was a way of explaining why they may or may not get Chad assault marines until they can make a big deal of it

>>53322900
If they've bothered mentioning RR, does that mean they're getting figs again?
Or are you supposed to represent them by buying any Fantasy cavalry unit and declaring Couns As?

>>53324127
Is this adult language?

>>53325445
Yeah but if you ignore him he gets nothing AND leaves. If he gets a rise out of you and gets banned he still got something out of it. Also at least the gay dark angels guy was funny, this one sounds like a hobo screaming about random shot on the side of the road.

>>53325546
>>53325583
They're just giving reasoning for all the main chapters to accept numarines. They know that the players of the 4 main chapters are going to be the ones that need convincing the most and are making the lore fit.

>Ultramarines invented them
>Space Wolves nearly wiped out
>Dark Angels 4th company wiped out
>Blood Angels about to get NIDDED
All these chapters are going to have a lot of primaris marine art produced for them, mark my words.

>>53325699
>Be new ChadMarine
>Get assigned to some faggot chapter that likes to dress in all robes
>Outperform the marinelets, make deathwing
>Learned they were going to betray the Emps, but turned up after Horus lost so went home and blew up their monastry to hide this
>mf

>>53323561
>Space Marines, super elite supermen, have...+1 Strength/Toughness/etc over regular humans
>A primarch has +3 over them instead in strength and toughness
That sounds about accurate. Considering how above regular humans Space Marines are, and that being a whole +1 to stats, Guilliman being +2 more is, in fact, exceedingly impressive.

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>>53325792
>get invited into gay orgy

>>53325792
>>53325875
I think DAfag only hangs out in the generals.

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>>53325905

>>53322513
They use to be ap5 in 5th or 6th
It was nice.
Then they took that away

>>53322572
Look at the stat lines for the stormcast eternals.
I'll bet the marine tier characters will match that, while the manlet tier races will match the wound profiles of freeguild/aelf characters.

>>53325993
No. They were S4 -1 Save in 2nd. ed. They haven't done anything since.

>>53325324
I'm intentionally taking the bait.

>>53326210
Ironic shitposting is still shitposting, anon.

>>53324810
How did you accidentally melt him?

>>53326197
No. In 5th edition or 6th they were S - AP5.
You dumb fuck

>>53326268
No, you are wrong.

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>>53326268
>or 6th
>not knowing anything about 6th
>being this new yet chatting shit

>>53326268
That was "Heavy Chainswords" in 6th. The two-handed ones. Normal Chainswords were AP -.

>>53323561

Yeah honestly the moment they decided to wank Primarchs as being that much better than say Dante or Logan Grimnar was the moment the lore began it's downwards spiral to the shit we currently have.

>>53326328
Who the hell even had heavy chainswords?

>>53325444
>>53325546
I wasn't whining, just explaining why the Angels wouldn't be getting canned.
I've never cared about muh dinobugs being BIGGEST BESTEREST or anything. They just look cool. Eating everybody else's important stuff in fluff would just mean other people don't get to use the things THEY think look cool, and that's just wrong.

>>53326383
Priests and shit I think.

>>53326482
Those were eviscerators, they were basically powerfists with +d6 armour pen, and 6th took them from IG priests, it also made priests a little ridiculously good for 25pts but muh big sword.

>>53326242
I'm not doing it ironically. I want to see if he actually feels that way.

>>53326533

If Evicerators are d6 damage power fists I'll be a very happy camper.

That + charging out of vehicles will make Repentia (Going from 3+ to 4+ from the weapon) very happy campers.

I'm guessing either d6 damage or the chainsword '+1 attacks' (As it's a chain weapon).

>>53323805

Buffy is great tbqh

>>53322809
I remember a pic of someone kitting out Vanguard Vets to have rounded storm shields and power lances, all dropping out of the sky on shit. Looked bad ass

>>53326434
>I don't like your subjective opinion so you're objectively wrong

>>53326663
OK, the comment in was replying to wasn't that one. I apologize for any confusion

>>53322908
Nope, pistols can fire in cc. You'll get just as many hits in with a boltpistol as a chainsword.

>>53326779
>pistols can fire in cc

Where does that read?

>You'll get just as many hits in with a boltpistol as a chainsword.

So, what, you fire the pistol once and then whip with it the amount of Attacks you have?

>>53326808
In the shooting rules, the made note that pistols can fire in the shooting phase despite being locked into close combat

>>53322458
holy shit Assault marines are going to be blenders on legs

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>>53323902
None of that is true. Primarchs bench press titans, get vented into space and live, and tombstone bloodthirsters. They aren't generic space marine captains at all. Try again, kiddo.

>>53323805
>steak
>well done
>with ketchup

Anon, there are some things that should never be said, no matter the circumstances. This is one of them.

Because it's fucking disgusting.

>>53323561
Normal marine statlines don't live up to the crazy shit they do in the fluff. It's only fitting that Primarch statlines don't either.

>>53326268
No, they weren't. Check 5th and 6th rulebooks. Anyone at all who had played those editions would know that because people bitched NONSTOP about them being AP - in 5th and 6th.

>>53323561
T6 is the toughness value that has benefited the most from the new 8th ed wounding system, it now takes S12 to wound it on 2+.

>>53322658
if you wanted it to be realistic AP would actually go

>Mace best AP
>Axe Second best AP
>Sword, worst AP

Probably would need to give the sword some kind of parry ability or make it cheaper to account for the fact that maces were literally designed to defeat armor back in the middle ages, axes were kind of ok at it, and swords were terrible at it.

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>>53327146
>realistic ap for lightsabres that have some metal inside them

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>>53326959

>>53327146
You know, I remember when they were all just the same damn thing, just Power Weapons regardless of shape and they ignored armor saves because they ALL cut through armor like butter regardless.
I don't think making the futuristic hightech sword that cuts through armor like butter have shitty armor piercing compared to other cuts-through-armor-like-butter weapons is realistic because that's how it worked with regular versions and regular metal armor. Hell, this setup is probably BEST if they're going to differentiate them because the sword's shape lets it concentrate the melts-like-butter field better

> 8th will cut out bloat!
> let's loadscreate stats for several one handed weapons

>>53322762
A Marine still gets a save against all power weapons.

>>53322609
>I'm hoping for Glorious 5th edition charges again where Sergeants with Power Swords were meat grinders.

That hit too close to home man, I'm getting some serious nostalgia right now. Personally, if the game had never moved on from 5th edition and just been in stasis, I'd be perfectly happy with that.

I'm confused by the wording, does Chainswords giving an additional attack only apply to attacking with them or in general?

I.e. is my Captain with a Chainsword + Power Sword able to attackan additional time with his Power Sword as well?

>>53322901
it makes sense for a helbrute to be a fucking horrifying melee monster, i dont mind this.

>>53327679

No it clearly said that you can make an additional attack with the weapon and it mean the chainsword.

Example a space marine sergeant with both chainsword and power sword who have 2 on Attack. He can make two attack with power sword and one attack with chainsword (if I understand correctly...).

>>53327890
That depends on the language of how melee works in the first place. You may still be tied to using one weapon a turn, and if so the chainsword additional attack won't come into play unless you're attacking with it.

>chainswords are an extra attack
>get all excited for my raptors
>realize half of them don't actually have Chainswords

Shit

>>53328500
How? Only way to gove someone something that isn't a chainsword is the Champion.

>>53328556

I guess the other weapons are Chainswords. They just look like spiky swords

>>53327679
Each time the model attacks, he can basically add +1 attack if he uses the chainsword. Other weapons will not receive that bonus attack. Let's say a Sgt. with 2 attacks has a power sword and a chainsword. Assuming you receive +1 for two melee weapons, the Sgt. would have 3 attacks with the power sword, or 4 attacks with the chainsword

>>53326846
It doesn't say much about how it works. Are there penalties, will you be able to fight in CC the same turn you fire in CC, etc.

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>>53323230

>Either way, I do like the last line here

Don't get too carried away in the hype. Remember that this is the same company who wrote this.

>>53323584
>>53322953

Fists are dead because they don't really do anything any more.

D3 wounds on a single model? Whats that going to do against a vehicle with 10+ wounds really?

>>53329047
Chainfists will probably be D6. Thunder hammers might be same as fists, but without the -1 to hit, maybe?

>mfw it takes 24 marine power fist attacks to bring down a russ now

>>53329047
Fists may be overkill against infantry, but really when have they not been?

>>53329100
Chainfists being 1d6/2d6kh1 is likely. I think thunder hammers may be -1 to hit for those wounded by it.

>>53329146
How many Russ close combat attacks you think it'll take to kill 24 Marines?

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>>53329146
>TFW it take 12 termintors to kill a single Russ

>>53323836
>stuck with old shit rules
Good. Exactly how I hope it will be.

>>53329253
As it should be.

So now everything is basically impossible to kill, are we going to basically spend 6 turn having a nice cup of tea, and talking things out

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>>53329275
...Why?

>>53329281
I was just thinking of that. My guess is that the new intention is that games won't be limited to 6 turns any longer. Instead the expectation will be each turn is generally shorter so we can have more turns in a single game.

>>53329253
>12 termies to kill a Russ
>battlecannon does <1W /turn to termies
This edition is feeling very soft-handed offensively all of a sudden.

>>53329308
But if each model gets to shoot all of its weapons how will the turns be shorter? That and they've specifically said that they tried to design the game so that a 2k point game would take ~2 hours.

>>53329356
>Battle cannons are just giant confetti cannons
>powerfist are giant inflatable boxing gloves
>boltguns are painball guns
Now THIS is a true and accurate war simulator

>>53329356
I wonder how the blasts are suppose to work. Like do you roll to hit, then on a hit you cause D6 hits, each which wounds and causes D3 wounds (would make sense as you're seeing if the shell hits and then the D6 represents the explosion hitting that many dudes)? Or do you roll a D6 and then roll to hit on those numbers (the number of hits scored represent the effectiveness of the shot as a whole).

Feels like this could have used more shots. It's funny to imagine that a frag grenade causes as many hits as a tank shell.

>>53329473
>heavy d6

Seems pretty straightforward to me

>>53329473
The profile says "Heavy d6" and if we're using the same nomenclature as previous editions then you roll to see the number of shots, then roll to hit with each one. In terms of expected hits it doesn't matter, but it does affect the variance.

>>53329493
>>53329508
I know what Heavy D6 means now, I'm just wondering if it means the same thing in the next edition, for reasons listed. I know I'd take D6 shots at BS4+ over a single 50/50 chance of scoring D6 hits, but you never know with GW.

Also, nice to know Ordnance is gone, so I guess that means sponsons aren't useless on regular Russ anymore. Too bad they didn't have much use in any other edition besides 5th, so I never really bothered putting any on.

>>53329569
>I know what Heavy D6 means now, I'm just wondering if it means the same thing in the next edition
we've seen heavy 1, which means roll 1 dice to hit
heavy d6 means roll d6 dice to hit.

>>53329605
Unless there's something we haven't been told yet.

>>53329616
I'm positive GW have clarified on their facebook that its d6 to hit rolls

>>53322475
Banshees might actually be useful again.

>>53329654
Aren't Flamers the same? Feels a bit weird that your marksman skill affects how well you can burn stuff with a stream of burning liquid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjBH-dLKPlA

>>53329739
Flamers hit automatically.

>>53329739
No, they're d6 hits not d6 shots.

>>53326023
Fuck that's really not great. In Sigmar a lot of synergy armies get destroyed by their low wound characters being sniped. I can see it being disatrous to an extent, 8th will see Flamers and Snipers cause fucking mayhem. I'm surprisingly OK with this playing an assault army though, I kinda like it compared to fucking deathstars.

>>53327591
Me too. Chenkov sending in the next wave of glorious Conscript waves, Power Weapon Sergeants and Commissars cutting everyone down, Straken buffing everyone and punching Land Raiders and Daemon Princes to death. It was a special time.

>>53326268
They really fucking weren't shitposter

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>power swords have the best AP now
Oh boy, finally a point to give Belial his sword back, things are looking and better and better for us Deathwing players.

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>>53324201
Dude, take a walk. Breathe in some air, drink some water, look into the sky and just relax.

Reminder that GW have confirmed on FB that bonus attacks for multiple ccws are a thing of the past.

>>53324345
Why is Alpharius a Vampire?

Why do Fulgrim and Khan get their heraldry, but everyone else gets Aquilas or Chaos Stars?

Why does Perturabo have an Aquila?

>>53330557
How can you look at anything in that closet?

>force weapons do 1d3
>power fists (and presumably thunder hammers) do 1d3

Will Daemon hammers do 2d3 or 1d6?

>>53328868
I don't get your image.

That's exactly what i would do in 8th edition.

>>53328868
5 Nobs in a Naut with 5 power klaws are gonna rip shit dead and now the Naut is more similar to the Knight than before that thing WILL reach assault and they WILL kill something.

>>53331187
roflmao XD

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>>53331506
:^)

>>53324810
It's entirely possible it isn't wholly out, but the are just referencing the most common preferred options (ie. power weapons they actually make models with, fists, chainswords)

>>53324345
>Manlet Perturabo

>>53330139
>Me too. Chenkov sending in the next wave of glorious Conscript waves, Power Weapon Sergeants and Commissars cutting everyone down, Straken buffing everyone and punching Land Raiders and Daemon Princes to death. It was a special time.
Will I be able to screen with Penal Legionaries and bring down his Holy Mortar Fire down on the heads of anything they tarpit?

>>53322609
>>53327591
>>53330139

>guard players love 5th edition
>5th edition was the edition when guard was the big ole swingin dick and bullied all the other factions

im sure its just a coincidence

>>53324557

care to explain the math, cause that looks strange as fuck to me.

>>53333366

To be fair I think most people probably like the edition that was best for their own army the best.

>>53322778
The White Scars bike captain had one, if I remember correctly.

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>>53323561
>MY TOYS AREN'T POWERFUL ENOUGH
Stick a power drill up your ass

>>53328716
>Are there penalties
Yes. -1 to hit. Also you can only fire at the unit you're in combat with.
I think if a unit's in an open-topped transport that's in combat you can do that without the penalty, if I remember right.

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I have no idea what any of this means

>>53334863
>Dawnblade intensifies

>>53333384
Not him but it probably looks weird because the weapons lose effectiveness at different thresholds.

Using s4,
Sword to wound drop at 3T, 4T, 5T and 8T.
Axe to wound drop at 3T, 5T, 6T and 10T.
Maul to wound drop at 4T, 6T, 7T and 12T.

Because these drop at different thresholds, their effectiveness switch around at different toughness. However, mauls are generally best at killing low save units, swords are best against high save units and axes are in the middle. The axe, however, benefits from being most effective against T4 units (aka MEQ, aka the most common army in the game).

>>53325053
>Rowboat Girlyman confirmed 9 Wounds
>Ramdom marine captain having 10

Sure thing man, whatever rustles your jimmies.

>>53333384
Let me explain it without being a retard like >>53335216

Strength has a ceiling on its effectiveness, eg once you can only wound on 6s then the weapon with the better AP is the superior choice.

The math beyond that is fucky and I doubt the previous anons did it right.

The only true way to do it is wounds dealt per point spent and we don't have the codices for that yet.

>>53327443
Which is honestly fine because basic melee weapons were never a problem to begin with and having options is a good thing.

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>>53322658
>and dick around with their AP values, it doesn't even make sense. an axe should have more AP than a sword. this can't be right, are you just reading it wrong?
You're just reading it wrong.
They wanted different weapons that are equal in value but only equally effective versus different targets. All three weapons are only different by one point (S or AP), adding or subtracting more than two points would lead to an extreme (such as something ridiculous like AP -6).

Switching the weapon profiles to "make them more realistic" would just cause asspain for other aspies who just want to complain about everything.

Good thing you're not in charge of balance.

>>53324586
Man I've wanted it for years. I've been getting by using inquisitor rules but it just isnt the same.

>>53334408
>you can only fire at the unit you're in combat with.

The text made it sound like you cannot fire at an enemy unit engaged in combat with another unit, which would sound like you can fire on the unit you are fighting with or an unengaged enemy unit.