/epg/ - Eclipse Phase General

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And as always, remember.

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What should I name a Machine AGI / Mercurial / Scientist / Gearhead (we're using packages) that's sleeved into pic related (technically a Rover with Hovercraft, kitted with a ton of sensors). It's actually less scientist and more engineer, and it's a dedicated Firewall assistant/helper bot, intended for forensics and scans and acting as a field tech/analyst; it's even got Electrical Engineering, Mechanical Engineering and Materials Engineering as separate Academics.

So I've got the character fleshed out, but I'm at a complete loss for words for a name or callsign (preferably both). Probably because it's not just a computer program, but also technically a legit person, and there aren't that many examples of that in the books, either, and I haven't found any help for naming conventions.

I realize I could just name it Bob, and I just might, but I'd still love suggestions, even if they're just funny or fitting number sequences.

>>53319962
Based on your picture, perhaps it could be named after Brontes, Steropes and/or Pyracmon, cyclops assistants to Hephaestus.

>>53319962
Remember to take the Space Fighter variant of the Rover. It gives you Internal Rockets, allowing you fly in space and leave the ground and stuff on moons, and since you've already got Thrust Vectors and you're adding Hovercraft, it fits fairly well for what you seem to be doing.

It costs the same (both in CP and Credits), so I have no idea why it's not standard.

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>>53320047
First, thanks for teaching me something new. I have a passing interest in all things mythology, but I didn't know that Hephaestus had named cyclop assistants.

Second, thanks, I love that. Brontes-3, who will no doubt be callsigned "Bob" by someone, because he bobs.

>>53320233
Yeah, it's weird. Would've been more fitting if it lost the Small Trait, lost one of it's arms as well as the existing weapons mount, and gained two Rail Rifles or Lasers, as well as the Internal Rockets. Maybe upped the cost to 65 CP. More of a Space Fighter, that way.

But thanks, I'll take the advice. It really fits, especially since he'll be attached to a server that investigates derelicts and potential x-risks in space (abandoned stations, lost ships, etc).

The "Deafult Movement Rate" of a Hovecraft is 8/40, but it also says for Small Size that "A diminutive frame is disadvantageous to some types of movement (walker, hovercraft), generally reducing the running Movement Rate by 4 or 8."

So if I'm a Small Size that takes Hovercraft, what's my Movement Rate for hovering? 4/20? Or 4/32? Or 0/32?

Could I use my Thrust Vectors for movement, under the assumption that I'm using Hovercraft to, well, hover? Would make a huge difference, since my Thrust Vector is 12/40.

>>53319962
>sleeved into pic related
Is this on Mars, Luna, or Titan? Because anywhere else I find it hard to believe you'll be consistently sleeved in the same thing.

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>>53321513
>Is this on Mars, Luna, or Titan? Because anywhere else I find it hard to believe you'll be consistently sleeved in the same thing.

Unknown as of yet, our GM has only given us the general premise of the game, he hasn't told us where it's set. That being said, I see no reason why I wouldn't be more or less consistently sleeved into the same thing, unless I'm an Anarchist or Scum living in one of their habs and have an interest in actually morph-hopping.

Nevermind that resleeving is disorienting and morphs are fucking expensive. I'm a built-for-purpose AGI that enjoys what he does - unless there's a reason, this is my body.

Also, I'm taking Identity Crisis and Morphing Disorder (1), and if I resleeve, I funny intend to bump into fucking everything and be emotionally overwhelmed. I really hope we don't have to ego-cast anywhere.

How fast are in-system transports, anyway? I know there's no FTL, but anything remotely approaching lightspeed would mean a week's travel at most.

>>53321513

Yeah, there is good reasons that a good number of GM's I've seen go with 'You can usually find any body you bought at chargen' (If for no other reason than to avoid permanently losing chargen points whenever the GM wants the group to go on a road trip.)

>>53321699
The way the game typically goes is you get sent on missions for Firewall wherever you're needed. Unless that happens to be on the same planet/station or in an extremely nearby one, that almost certainly means you're egocasting. Once there, you're stuck with whatever morph is available, maybe a few pieces of equipment available through Firewall contacts. Beyond that you're usually on your own.

Because of this, one of the biggest pieces of advice given to new players is not to invest much CP in morphs and physical items. Skills, software and blueprints are things you can take with you.

You GM may of course not run it this way. Just ignoring the interesting things about the setting and running around on Mars seems to be particularly popular on /epg/, and gatecrashing is another way that gameplay can go.

I also think it's a bit odd to be making a character without having been told where in the system the game is being set (if it is indeed localized at all).

>>53322200

>You GM may of course not run it this way. Just ignoring the interesting things about the setting and running around on Mars seems to be particularly popular on /epg/, and gatecrashing is another way that gameplay can go.

I can understand why. It does a lot to unfuck the mechanical issues of the game.

>>53321699
>How fast are in-system transports, anyway?
Slow, months or years to travel between worlds rather than hours or days. Unless your morph has a lot of dangerous/ expensive mods it's going to be far cheaper and quicker to arrange for a morph built to your spec at your destination and egocast

>>53322200
Noob trying to make a game to run here. So travel between places even in the inner planets takes a long time? I guess I never considered that there isn't really FTL travel or anything. So I guess the sentinels are generally just uploaded to a provided sleeve at a nearby location to the objective instead of chilling on a ship until they get there?

>>53322200
Im just preserving opsec by not telling the players to which deathtrap they are being sent to.

What is a good list of spare morphs to leave lying around when one of your players inevitably needs a replacement? Im thinking pods and some synths are cheap to have around.

>>53322262
Which mechanical issues? Resleeving? Resource limitations?

>>53322402

The fact that physical resources come out of the same pool in Chargen as stuff that does actually stick with you.

A guy who makes a pure infomorph and spends all his points on skills is an objectively better character than someone who wanted to make a combatant and actually bought a Fury at chargen. Even, likely, within the area of combat as that's a hefty chunk of your points gone for nothing.

>>53322200
>Just ignoring the interesting things about the setting
I don't think you're the one to really judge what is interesting in the setting and state it as fact, anon.

There's tons of interesting stuff you can do that doesn't involve constant morph-hopping or ego-casting; I personally consider that one of the less interesting things of the setting, and prefer more "down to Earth" things (no pun intended). Had tons of fun in a game set entirely on Luna, investigating X-Risks.

If you're playing Firewall, depending on your server, you're usually going to have specific areas of operation and investigatory niches, anyway (it even refers specifically to this in the books). Makes no sense to send a guy on Luna ego-casting to Mars to investigate something unless it relates to something he's doing on Luna or he's got some special skill that another Server is missing.

>>53322264
Unless there's an urgency, you could always go into cold storage and take a transport. I imagine that's usually cheaper than new morphs and egocasting, but obviously much slower. Is there any info about specific travel times and speeds anywhere? The differences have to be pretty big between, say, Luna to Mars compared to Luna to Jupiter, and many times that to Saturn/Titan.

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>>53322200
>also think it's a bit odd to be making a character without having been told where in the system the game is being set (if it is indeed localized at all).

Nah, we've got the general premise, so I assume that we'll be out and about in the system, so character creation doesn't need to relate to our location much in this case. Can't wait to take four weeks to get to a space station only to discover that someone else got there first. I'm so excited!

>>53322433
That infomorph can spend money on server time in a useless location just as easily as that combat character can focus on skills rather than equipment.

>>53322680
Why would someone spend resources on creation for server-time?

>>53322703
Why would you spend resources on creation for guns and furies?

>>53322680
>buying server time
>buying GOOD server time
>when a Ghostrider Module to stick in another party member is [Low]
Really gets your cybernoggin joggin.

>>53322737

Because you can't actually do combat without a body or gun?

The game has a serious issue with PCs not ending up remotely of similar value. The less you spend on resources, the better you are as losing all your resources is not only possible it's the systems main form of sending you places.

They really, really should have made them separate pools or made buying something in chargen buying access to a supply of them (So you can get them basically anywhere while other people need to organise it individually)

>>53322759
>spending CP on a gun
>when you won't be here tomorrow

A nice server has way more processing capability than a ghostrider module.

Any gear (not augments/enhancements) a AGI/infolife/synthmorph should grab on creation that can be easily considered integrated either into software or hardware?

Can honestly not immediately think of that much equipment that would be beneficial or reasonable. I'm the kind of player that usually grabs stuff like flashlights and quarter staffs and extra bags and marbles and zip ties, but none of that is really relevant when you're a small-sized floating synthmorph with integrated sensors and gear.

Not like I can carry a backpack.

>>53322819

>spending CP on a gun
>when you won't be here tomorrow

And thus you run right into my complaints about the serious mechanical issues. Someone building a PC with, at chargen, the tools they need to do a task now...is a bad idea.

A smart PC starts with no gear and gets it after chargen as it doesn't cost you character points. Skills are the main thing that will stay with you when you travel.

>>53322823
To be fair, you could just screw on some saddlebags.

>>53322823
Here's the thing though. You can spend CP on things like networking that let you have cool stuff on location.

>>53322823
Look at some software, especially if noone else bought a TacNet, and a few bots you can jam. Gnats and Servitors are pretty cheap and you can send them into dangerous situations as walking 10' poles.

There's also spare rep and credits, in case you think of something later.

>>53322817
This is why I actually like the way 2e's playtest does gear. It gives you enough equipment that you can do your job, but doesn't let you sink a lot of expendable resources on something that's going to disappear. Shame they don't have something similar for morphs, but that's what playtesting is for.

>>53322737
Because they're necessary if you actually want to run and gun, and because they're really, really fucking expensive, to the point where if you spend everything you have on creation on other things - as the Infomorph can usually afford to do - you're not likely to see a Fury anytime soon, or, like, ever, for all you know.

And even if you get it later, you're likely to just lose it, or maybe have to abandon it on Mars or on Luna or somewhere else, if you're in a game with lots of resleeving.

Server time is just something you buy wherever you happen to be, as needed for that duration. It's not something you get on creation because you practically have to, nor is it something that you pay for beyond what is necessary.

An Infomorph buying tons of server time on creation and then ending up somewhere else right afterward, or potentially session to session depending on the GM and the story, is something that never really happens unless we're talking about a special brand of retarded.

Someone getting themselves a Fury or honestly anything other than whatever free morph they have access to is something that happens routinely, both during and after character creation. It doesn't even happen to be a top-of-the-line Morph or anything, it applies to anything, it's just that it gets worse the higher you go.

>>53323044
>Because they're necessary if you actually want to run and gun, and because they're really, really fucking expensive, to the point where if you spend everything you have on creation on other things - as the Infomorph can usually afford to do - you're not likely to see a Fury anytime soon, or, like, ever, for all you know.
If the GM doesn't give you any resources then that's not not a mechanical issue with the game. That's either a bad GM, a GM running a game the player isn't interested in, or a player who doesn't understand that he's still the best at combat if everyone gets a pistol.

>>53322856
>To be fair, you could just screw on some saddlebags.
Well, yeah, I guess, but that might interfere with my aerodynamics. And I wouldn't be as pretty.

>>53322893
>Here's the thing though. You can spend CP on things like networking that let you have cool stuff on location.
True, but also, we're using Packages for creation, and Gearhead gave me 60k to spend. I've burned 33k on augments/enhancements already, so I've got some cash left for potential gear before I'd dig into the CP I have left after taking a Morph and my Traits.

>>53322930
>Look at some software, especially if noone else bought a TacNet, and a few bots you can jam. Gnats and Servitors are pretty cheap and you can send them into dangerous situations as walking 10' poles.

Thanks, I'll check it out. Especially Programs are a good idea, considering what I am, and could conceivably be considered as coming with me wherever I go, as long as I end up sleeving into a synthmorph again (or have proper equipment).

I also just realized that my entire character is basically a fancy gnat or servitor. I could attach a few gnats to myself via fiber-wire and send them around corners or on ahead. Not sure I want to do that, but it's a fun idea. I'd probably end up giving them names and treating them as pets.

>>53323163
>True, but also, we're using Packages for creation, and Gearhead gave me 60k to spend.
You don't have to spend it right away, and you can spend it on things like fabber blueprints (still highly recommended even if you're on Mars).

>>53323156
>If the GM doesn't give you any resources then that's not not a mechanical issue with the game.

It's an issue with the game when the game expects the GM to hand out extra resources to balance things out just because character creation is completely unbalanced.

By your logic, everyone should be expected to make an Infomorph on creation, regardless of what character they're making, and then the GM should facilitate the in-game acquisition of relevant gear, equipment, and morphs. It makes no sense, in relation to the options that the game actually gives you.

>>53323190
Yeah, I'm considering just saving it at the moment, unless something stands out as useful for what I'm doing. Might give me a head start on getting operational again once the GM brains me.

>>53322930
>especially if noone else bought a TacNet
Based on how TacNets are described on pg. 205, everyone that wants to be a part of the TacNet needs the TacNet program ("participants in the network"), unless I'm missing something.

That said and especially given the ridiculous number of sensors I intend to have (Radar, Lidar, Echolocation, Electrical Sense, Radiation Sense, Enhanced Vision, Enhanced Hearing, T-Ray Emitter, 360-degree Vision), I don't think anyone could be a better TacNet-Hub.

I guess it's possible that I alone could at least feed my information to the AR-interfaces of others, even if they're missing TacNets of their own.

>>53323297
Keep on minmaxing, pal.

>>53323297
And how is this different from any game that has loot?

>>53323860

Because in D&D, loot doesn't come from the same pool of resources as your stat points and class levels. There is also good reasons a lot of games let you buy a wealth level and then get cash from that wealth level. The wealth level is a permanent feature even if it affects starting dosh.

>>53323895
>Because in D&D, loot doesn't come from the same pool of resources as your stat points and class levels

A) It doesn't have to in EP either
B) Why is that a balance issue?

>There is also good reasons a lot of games let you buy a wealth level and then get cash from that wealth level.
You know EP has rep, right?

>>53323948

>A) It doesn't have to in EP either

At Chargen, however it does.

>B) Why is that a balance issue?

Becuase it's spending permanent resources on a very (Especially in EP. In D&D you could at least expect to keep the same masterwork sword and upgrade it along your career) impermanent resource rather than permanent resources.

>>53323948
>You know EP has rep, right?

Rep is also an in-game resource. Do you expect your first session to be 'Everyone uses favors to get bodies'?

>>53323989
>At Chargen, however it does.
So don't do it then. D&D doesn't even give you the option to be wealthier at chargen.

>>53324076
Typically Firewall has a morph ready for you at the destination, though you might spend rep to get a nicer one.

>>53324083
>there's a trap option?
>just don't take it lmao
All we need is scantily clad furbait and we'll be the mirror image of /pfg/.

>>53324083

And it would smarter if Eclipse Phase didn't do that. It's a gigantic trap option.

The better option would have been something like 'X points for character, Y points on Firewall Requisition'. Y is stuff that firewall can always have for you. So the gunbunny will be able to spend a large chunk of it to have a Fury ready on any mission that involves egocasting somewhere or the hacker will always have the tools he needs for said hacking.

>>53324122
Well it's not a trap option if your zonestalking or something. Did it occur to you that it might be there for that reason?

>>53324150
>Well it's not a trap option if your zonestalking or something.

Honestly, with how easy fabrication of object is it's honestly a trap even then. Spending chargen points on the fabricator to make your other items is better than buying the items themselves.

Can anyone think of a game with no trap options?

>>53324185

There are very few with no trap options (D&D 4e is likely one of the lowest as it's got a very high optimisation floor and a low ceiling).

A lot of them are a lot smaller in the trap options than EP though. Especially since EP's trap runs counter to how most RPGs train people 'Get all my stuff done in chargen' vs 'Buying pants is a first session thing'.

All CP is a trap. It is a pit. Once you invest it in something, you can't get it back. Be that your morph gets shot up, you get lost in a place with no computers for your sweet infomorph+software, you have to accomplish something in 10 minutes so all your fabricators and blueprints are useless, you spent points on the trait to resleeve better and you never resleeve, or you spend 40 points on Swimming and are on a Desert exoplanet.

>>53324234
>D&D 4e
If I wanted to play WoW I'd do it on the computer.

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>>53324122

>>53324248

Hell, CP in 'universally useful' skills are still a trap, since Psychosurgery can remove them.

>>53324473

Wow, that must have been a real difficult thing to come up with an insult that creative and new.

>>53324596
It's not really worth the effort to come up with a better one. Who do I need to convince?

>>53324653

The 4e general on /tg/?

Because 4e doesn't really bear any resemblance to WoW that D&D doesn't in the first place.

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>>53324705

>>53322527
>>53321699
>How fast are in-system transports, anyway? I know there's no FTL, but anything remotely approaching lightspeed would mean a week's travel at most.

That depends on what information you use. I'd recommend to use GURPS Spaceships and Atomic Rockets info over what is written in EP rulebooks.

Overall for the balanced economical approach to travel you want fusion drives. Antimatter allows you to go a little faster but costs are so high you could touch Alpha Centauri. Metallic hydrogen is ok for "Planet-Moon" travel but over interplanetary distances it is too slow (dV is pretty low).

Fusion drive allows you to get from Mercury to Jupiter in around 2-3 months depending on how much fuel you are willing to expend. Though that's not for cold storage ships those move on most economical trajectories and will spend years in space.

>>53324801

I think you meant that for >>53324473

>>53324830
Fine. One example:

Replacing Vancian magic with powers on cooldown. There are tons of examples including wording, but I'll not be drawn further into this baitfest.

>>53324888

Cooldowns? You mean per/day and per/encounter powers? 4e doesn't have cooldowns or powers recharging in a battle. If a power is expended, it's expended until you have a chance to rest.

>>53324888
>there are tons of examples including wording, but I'll not be drawn further into this baitfest.

You literally started the baitfest with >>53324473

>>53323797
Literally nothing I said suggests that I min/max.

>>53323860
>And how is this different from any game that has loot?

Starting equipment, race, etc., is usually not gained by spending Creation Points, nor does most games have loss of all your equipment and resources as a game mechanic, nevermind one where only some do, while others keep everything invested.

>>53324083
>So don't do it then.
see >>53323297

Honestly, this is starting to sound like people defending caster supremacy in DnD with "You don't have to play a Wizard just because they're more powerful!".

As a GM, would you allow AGI:s to take Lemon as an Ego Trait?

>>53325551
>Literally nothing I said suggests that I min/max.
You were bitching at the thought of spending 10 or 15 out of 1000 CP on a morph that might not be super useful.

>Starting equipment, race, etc., is usually not gained by spending Creation Points
Okay. That doesn't make it a problem.

>nor does most games have loss of all your equipment and resources as a game mechanic, nevermind one where only some do, while others keep everything invested.
Most games also don't let you just 3D print a new gun or use rep to get one. I won't even go into the fact that this is a covert ops game and that means ditching and acquiring equipment sometimes.

>Honestly, this is starting to sound like people defending caster supremacy in DnD with "You don't have to play a Wizard just because they're more powerful!".

No, it's not. At all. Buying a gun in character creation isn't a class or a party role. You can still be the guy who goes around and shoots things without spending a bunch of CP on gear in character creation, and it's still quite powerful in game terms.

>>53325839
Not without a damned good argument for it.

>>53325839

Doesn't Lemon cause wounds? Pretty sure Infomorphs don't have wounds.

>>53325903
>You were bitching at the thought of spending 10 or 15 out of 1000 CP on a morph that might not be super useful.
No I wasn't. Go back, re-read. Your jimmies seem incredibly rustled over this.

>>53326259
Super rustled. Anything else you want to say or can we discuss something less stupid now?

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>>53325903
>Not without a damned good argument for it.
Given that you're evidently retarded, I'm not sure what argument you'd accept. Obviously, the argument would be the same as why you can take it as a Morph Trait for Synthmorphs. C'mon, there's no need to be a little bitch over 10 CP, was there?

>>53326202
>Doesn't Lemon cause wounds? Pretty sure Infomorphs don't have wounds.

I wasn't thinking specifically as an Infomorph, of course, but rather as an AGI, meaning that if you were an AGI sleeved into anything other than an Infomorph, you'd take wounds from it.

It's arguably much worse than taking it as a Morph Trait and then just ditching or losing that morph at some point, as an Infomorph optimizer would likely do, but I just thought the idea was interesting and thought I'd ask what people thought about it, since AGI:s are still constructs of a sort; I was just thinking it could be a glitch of some sort, instead of faulty electrical wiring or similar.

>>53326431
>you're evidently retarded

then

>let me just assume that the infomorph isn't an infomorph, then claim that the ego could cause wounds somehow

>>53326431

I'm pretty sure wounds are entirely supposed to be physical damage - even "Neural Damage" as an Ego trait is that the damage is basically done to the Ego sectors of the brain so the effects port with you even in emulation and don't affect the overall health of the morph.

There's already several traits to give an AGI which can make it harder for them to sleeve without going all weird "You die in the game you die in real life".

>>53326525
>I'm pretty sure wounds are entirely supposed to be physical damage
Yes, of course, I was thinking along the ways of programming quirks that resulted in physical damage; servos locking up or trying to go in different directions, voltages suddenly running too high or too low, or cooling suddenly shutting down just long enough for something to just almost catch fire.

Bonus points if it electrifies the chassis or sputters burning oils onto the curtains all of a sudden. Or, in the odd chance the AGI would be sleeved in a meatsuit, suddenly have the legs give out while walking down a flight of stairs, or get a nosebleed and spit blood all over the mark you're trying to deceive.

I've fucked up a lot of hardware in real life with faulty or misconfigured software, so the idea of a Lemon AGI isn't really that much of a stretch for me, I guess.

>>53327016
That doesn't really make sense though, since all of that would be handled by firmware while the ego just does the higher-level coordination.

>>53327016

Yeah, given how AGI have "legacy peripherals" so they can do autonomous nervous functions to breathe - I'm pretty sure that's just Anomalous Mind and if you have an error which doesn't get patched over you just don't sleeve. Or it's just Lemon on the morph because the morph would have to have a flawed or weakened design in order to blow back like that.

AGI aren't just regular exe files, almost all of them are based on biological neural maps or emulation.

And I think you might get software, but I don't think you get brains. You can do some weird psychosomatic stuff but that's still not like, a wound. That'd be neural damage or basically a trauma - your Ego makes you think you're blind, or your leg doesn't work but from a medical standpoint your leg is perfectly fine. No "damage" is done to the cells and tissues there.

What is the best way to strand characters on an exoplanet?
Destroy the blue box or enitre pandora gate?

>>53327416
Probably just the blue box, especially if they can't make it to the designated return appointment. Another option is to send them through with a vehicle then destroy that.

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>>53327180
>You can do some weird psychosomatic stuff but that's still not like, a wound. That'd be neural damage or basically a trauma - your Ego makes you think you're blind, or your leg doesn't work but from a medical standpoint your leg is perfectly fine. No "damage" is done to the cells and tissues there.

Well that's basically what I'm talking about; imagine it as neural damage to the biological neural emulation. Neural damage can absolutely cause physical damage if it means getting a seizure or prompting you to suddenly do something you shouldn't be doing at the wrong time, whether you fall down the stairs, blow a blood vessel or punch a wall.

That said, when I originally envisioned this, I wasn't thinking of sleeving into biomorphs, and it's even easier to imagine when considering synthmorphs, again, by losing control over something or doing something backwards at the wrong time.

Anomalous Mind doesn't cover any of that, and is something else altogether, and has your mind be something "dramatically outside the norm of transhumanity", making it hard to do psychosurgery, backups and resleeves. I'm talking about an embedded programming glitch or base computer error in the neural simulation that results in sudden and largely unexpected anomalous behaviour, sometimes resulting in physical damage to the morph in which you're sleeved.

>>53327142
>That doesn't really make sense though, since all of that would be handled by firmware while the ego just does the higher-level coordination.
Source?

>>53327571
>Source?
It's discussed a bit in the section on integration, and I think somewhere else too.

>>53327142
That's like saying that the firmware of the human body isn't in the brain, and that people sleeved in synths can't regulate their functions, much like I can't adjust the fans of my computer or that PLC functions on an assembly line can't be fucked. You're retarded.

>>53327661
No, it's more like saying that when they sleeve you in a fucking octopus they swap some brain stem functions instead of just having it not work.

>>53327615
>>53327571

Even if it's not explicitly stated in those terms - a human who is not an octopus can sleeve into an octopus and still be able to move at all - the necessary like, subconscious and basic motor and autonomic functions are either extant or patched in - though obviously people have harder time with the resleeving itself.

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>>53327615
>It's discussed a bit in the section on integration, and I think somewhere else too.
No.

>>53327661
Plus, a lot of autonomic stuff actually is processed outside of the brain.

>>53327693
>mental "patches"

yes

>>53327692
Resleeving integration is about you adapting to the functions and being able to take control. It doesn't change that you're the one in control. Now, "neural damage" for an AGI of this type is obviously subconscious and reflexive, but it doesn't change the fact that it's still there, much like how you can be an Async and preserve the functions that make you an async whether you're in an octomorph or an olympian (afaik).

So basically we're having an argument if an AGI can be loaded with malware to cause random physically harmful failures if sleeved in a body - but which have no impact on digital emulation in a software shell (because software doesn't take damage).

Fucking why?

>>53327742
>mental "patches"

That has nothing to do with what you said, and I have no idea why you'd think that a patched-in functions necessary for your mind to be able to handle the new morph is the same thing as it being pre-existing firmware over which you have no control. If you're just going to pull stuff out of your ass, at least own up to it.

>>53327787
>I have no idea why you'd think that a patched-in functions necessary for your mind to be able to handle the new morph is the same thing as it being pre-existing firmware over which you have no control

You know you have control over what firmware you use, right?

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>>53327776
>Fucking why?

I honestly have no idea, I didn't actually expect anyone to have their jimmies rustled over it, and if anyone would have a problem with it, that it would be based on something completely different that I might've missed. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>53327776
>>53327863
It doesn't help that this is in a setting where there's sentient computer virii that reconfigure egos and the synths in which they're sleeved to make them practically self-destruct or worse.

>>53327825
>You know you have control over what firmware you use, right?
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Not sure how you could've missed it.

>>53327863

No I mean "fucking why" as in "why the fuck did you ask this retarded question which has no meaningful application". I want to know what you're getting out of this besides insisting that something you made up exists and the (You)s.

>>53327883

Digital infection really does just affect digital things though. It cannot affect any physical aspects unless it's also a nanovirus.

>>53327883
>Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Not sure how you could've missed it.
Cool. So now that we've established that it's not the default assumption when discussing firmware, you'll be happy to point out where I said the firmware in question is pre-installed and outside of user control.

>>53327934
>Cool. So now that we've established that it's not the default assumption when discussing firmware, you'll be happy to point out where I said the firmware in question is pre-installed and outside of user control.
You said it didn't make sense because it was handled by firmware, implying that you're not the one to handle the firmware, while I've been saying that that doesn't matter.

Which, by the way, is still a fact that you pulled straight out of your ass, unless you can actually find something that covers it, because the section on Integration doesn't.

>>53328013
So your thinking is that this lemon glitch somehow fucks up this third party firmware?

>Which, by the way, is still a fact that you pulled straight out of your ass, unless you can actually find something that covers it, because the section on Integration doesn't.

We can call them patches if you want. I just think firmware is a more accurate metaphor. You know how the devs are with technical details.

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>>53327907
>why the fuck did you ask this retarded question which has no meaningful application

Because I wanted some input on potential issues that might arise and because it has a potentially meaningful application for the purpose of a character?

It's not that hard to grasp, anon, it's pretty much what /tg/ is for.

>I want to know what you're getting out of this besides insisting that something you made up exists

No such insistence has been made; I wouldn't have bat an eye at accepting it at my own table, were I the GM, obviously, but it's always nice to get input from others just to see if there's some angle that I've missed or that might cause issues, or that it doesn't make sense in relation to something that has been missed.

Doesn't seem to be any real issue with it, though, mechanically or narratively. Other than it being slightly more penalizing than if it would only be a Morph Trait, but I'm fine with that, obviously.

>>53328152
Have you looked at morphing disorder? It probably makes more sense for what you're trying to do.

>>53328055
>So your thinking is that this lemon glitch somehow fucks up this third party firmware?
In much the same way I have no issue fucking up my own third-party hardware in both a home and industrial setting? Yes.

>We can call them patches if you want.
Patches and firmware are different things. The "patches" as described explicitly aid you in adapting to the new body, they're not separate software that runs things for you, they merely update you on how to function and allows you to take control.

You still have control over everything, and if you've got neural damage or faulty programming, that might fuck you up at the worst of times, in limbs and areas you may not even have realized that you had, in interesting and imaginative ways, every time.

>>53328272
>In much the same way I have no issue fucking up my own third-party hardware in both a home and industrial setting? Yes.
So when it stops working right you don't revert to a working copy? This isn't a very plausible trait.

>>53328272
>Patches and firmware are different things. The "patches" as described explicitly aid you in adapting to the new body, they're not separate software that runs things for you, they merely update you on how to function and allows you to take control.
The text is ambiguous on this point.

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>>53328217
I've actually already taken Morphing Disorder, but it's actually unrelated, just like the aforementioned Anomolous Mind, and does something completely different. I've also taken Identity Crisis, because I'm very much built-for-purpose, so I'll already be a bumbling idiot if I resleeve into something foreign.

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Alright, going to try to save this.

Neo-Bunnies/Bunny Uplifts.

Yes, no, maybe?

>>53328372
No. Rabbits are dumb as shit. There are fish that would be better uplift candidates.

>>53328349
This smells strongly of an attempt at minmaxing by someone who never intends to sleeve a morph anyway.

>>53328217
>>53328152

I agree. Like "Lemon" seems wrong because of what it represents. There's a physical flaw in the morph - or can be just because it's so shittily made, so you're constantly testing chance to see if you have a hardware failure. Keeping in mind that you don't take DV from this - you just get the wound penalty (which you ignore anyway unless you have more). In 2E it's even more precise, it can occur any time you critically fail something - basically whenever you're doing something the fuck up might be your morph just breaks a bit.

The issue with the software thing is that, an AGI is a very complex instrument which is supposed to be armed with all kinds of extra data anyway so it's whole Ego-state can do stuff it's never done before, i/e breathe. If there's a bug in there, it should probably happen immediately on resleeving (So Anomalous Mind or Morphing Disorder) which causes errors and discomfort when sleeving - this can include physical penalties like Wounds for extended periods. Or you could say it has neural damage and has... AI epilepsy or something (for a stupid snowflake reason) but that's not really tied to a hard and fast mechanical thing like Lemon. A GM should stretch their brain a little and come up with narrative effects as appropriate - not hard and fast penalties which are a giant abstraction for physical harm in the first place.

>>53328349

> I've also taken Identity Crisis, because I'm very much built-for-purpose, so I'll already be a bumbling idiot if I resleeve into something foreign.

If by bumbling idiot you mean "take a -10 to rolls where recognizing or describing yourself and otherwise just roleplay that I forget what my morph looks like".

Also, protip a Wound is a -10 penalty also, and Synthmorphs inherently can ignore 1 of those so Identity Crisis is much better for terms of actually playing a character and not just being a weird "unique snowflake" or minmax thing

>>53328438

In which case you should just take Morphing Disorder or Anomalous Mind for the points anyway.

>>53328440
>In 2E it's even more precise, it can occur any time you critically fail something - basically whenever you're doing something the fuck up might be your morph just breaks a bit.
So having particularly bad aim can break your morph?

>>53328345
>The text is ambiguous on this point.
Yet >>53327142 stated in no ambiguous terms that:
>"all of that would be handled by firmware while the ego just does the higher-level coordination."

Personally, I see the text as extremely clear:
>Luckily, transhuman minds are adaptive things,
and this process is aided by the application of mental
“patches” during the resleeving process that give the
character a bit of a boost for using their new body.

The transhuman mind is adaptive, it adapts to the new morph, and this process of adaption is aided by the use of mental "patches" during *the resleeving process* itself, which gives "a bit of a boost" for using the new body.

At no point is it implied that there's some third-party firmware running over which you don't have direct control; you mind adapts to the new body, and the patches help you do that (likely as a way to tell you that you have more arms, or less, or make sure reflexive responses are initiated/realized), but if you've got a fucked emulation running, simulating something analogous to neural/brain damage, you could very well have involuntary spasms, resulting in all kinds of physical fuckups, including mild heart attacks or muscles that lock up and get damaged, especially if you're sleeved in a synthmorph with lots and lots of moving parts and electronics over which you have control.

>>53328496

No, it's not that your aim is bad it's more like at that particular moment your action is critically fucked up by your morph breaking.

I mean, if you want to be a bit gonzo you can say you shoot yourself in the foot or something, but in a more sensible way it should be more like you go to pull the trigger and at that exact moment the shitty wiring in your hand breaks so you miss and also it effectively "hurts" you.

>>53328440
>Identity Crisis is much better for terms of actually playing a character and not just being a weird "unique snowflake" or minmax thing

Does different things, though, but yes, obviously I'm mostly going to be roleplaying it if/when resleeving comes up, I don't care that much for the potential GM-induced penalties here and there.

As for min/maxing, well, Lemon AGI would actually be the opposite of min/maxing and optimization, so there's no issue there; I simply find a flaw in my programming more interesting and continuously relevant than a flaw in my chassis.

>>53328612

> Lemon AGI would actually be the opposite of min/maxing and optimization,

Not really no. Again, apart from the free wound ignore all synthmorphs get as an Ego trait that's basically points you get which you can easily make NEVER come up by just never sleeving into a physical form. Free CP.

>>53328438
>This smells strongly of an attempt at minmaxing by someone who never intends to sleeve a morph anyway.
If that's your intent, you could just take Lemon and start in a morph that you immediately discard. AGI Lemon would be identical to Lemon, but actually stay with you in whatever morph you take.

>>53328522
The patches are applied during the resleeving process. It does not say that their use isn't continued indefinitely. In fact, it would be reasonable to assume that the use of these patches is continued, as it would make more sense. Another interpretation might be that they become incorporated into the ego.

>At no point is it implied that there's some third-party firmware running over which you don't have direct control

Have someone hit your lower patella with one of those triangular rubber mallets and don't kick. You already don't have direct control of your body. It makes sense that similar systems would be installed for new morphs.

Incidentally, I now see what you mean by controlled. You're referring to the execution rather than the installation. Could have been much clearer.

>if you've got a fucked emulation running, simulating something analogous to neural/brain damage, you could very well have involuntary spasms
This would be extremely easy to control with signal filters though.

>>53328612
>As for min/maxing, well, Lemon AGI would actually be the opposite of min/maxing and optimization
Only if you sleeve, which the player may not plan to do.

>>53328687
>If that's your intent, you could just take Lemon and start in a morph that you immediately discard.

At least then the morph cost would offset the gain from Lemon.

>>53328668
see
>>53328687

>>53328741
>You already don't have direct control of your body.
Your brain still does. We are, after all, specifically talking about involuntary functions here, unless you somehow got the idea that you're going to stop your fans or have a heart-attack voluntarily (although I see no reason why a synthmorph wouldn't be able to do that consciously, in the same way I see no reason why they'd kick reflexively when struck in a given spot).

>At least then the morph cost would offset the gain from Lemon.
Both Cases and Spares only cost 5 CP, while Lemon is -10 CP. So, 5 "free" CP, yay?

Also, there's several Traits that call for GM arbitration that would constitute "Free CP" to a lot of characters that never perform the related actions.

So it's a bogus argument, especially in how it relates here. Either that, or grasping at straws.

>>53328905
>Your brain still does.
Well the patch outside of your conscious control is running on the brain for a biomorph or a cyberbrain for a synthmorph so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here.

>Both Cases and Spares only cost 5 CP, while Lemon is -10 CP. So, 5 "free" CP, yay?

Better at least. Still a bit scummy.

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>>53328440
>In 2E it's even more precise, it can occur any time you critically fail something
So it takes the GM out of the equation? As if we needed 2nd Ed. to be more trash.

>>53328387
Wow, rude.

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>>53328967

>>53328967

Yeah, because the GM arbitrarily deciding when your save vs being made in space china roll is really good game design.

>>53328946
>Well the patch outside of your conscious control is running on the brain for a biomorph or a cyberbrain for a synthmorph so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here.
That direct conscious control is completely irrelevant to the discussion? The patches only help you ease into the morph, nothing else; then your brain takes over, with it's potentially esoterically fucked pathways.

>Better at least. Still a bit scummy.
Only scummy if you abuse it, which is true for oh-so-many different things in the system already. Like taking Divergent Personality and never forking. Or Drug Fiend and never do drugs. Or Emotive Blindness for someone that isn't going to be doing any Kinesics tests anyway (or be so bad at them that it won't make a difference).

Nevermind that you can take -50 CP worth of Negative Morph Traits, pick a Flat or a Spare, and immediately discard it and become an Infomorph. Or, hell, you don't even need to become an Infomorph, you've just gotten 45-50 CP for free either way.

And that's just from the top of my head, I could go on and on.

AGI Lemon potentially being abused for 5 free CP for a very specific type of character (Forever-Infomorphs) because the GM is shit and the player is Scummy is ridiculous, autistic nonsense, and for everyone else, it's objectively more debilitating than standard Lemon.

>>53329205
>The patches only help you ease into the morph, nothing else;
It never says that. It only says that resleeving is when installation occurs.

The rest of your argument hangs on this point, so I'll leave it here.

>>53329132
>Yeah, because the GM arbitrarily deciding when your save vs being made in space china roll is really good game design.
Yes, yes it is. It's a lot more fun than playing interactive boardgames. With some healthy Moxie and restrictive rolling at specific points, it pretty much invalidates the better parts of the Trait, whereas when the GM decides, you can be sure it's going to kick in when it actually matters, even if you're just standing behind the party face trying to look tough, and then suddenly your eyes short out for a moment, or your start leaking hydraulic fluid from whatever passes for your nether regions.

Good times, and beats rollplaying anytime, anywhere.

>>53329235
>It only says that resleeving is when installation occurs.
No it doesn't. Go back and read it, it was posted earlier, and quoted, and gone thought step-by-step, explaining it to you. It's amazing that you still try to play the unsubstantiated nonsense off as fact.

Legit question, is English not your first language, or are you just autistic? It would actually explain a lot.

>>53329235
Do you really have no fucking idea what a patch is?

>>53329336
>application of mental of "patches" during resleeving

That's the exact quote. Are you not aware that applying and installing a patch are equivalent in common usage?

>>53329287

You know it's a MOXx10 test AND once per session in 1E, right? The GM has one opportunity to blow his load which a character can get out of pretty easy if they want, because it's just 1 Wound.

Now any time you roll a critical failure it's a 10% chance to inflict 1 wound,

You can piss your robot pants any time, that's not actually something that matters and could happen on ANY critical failure. You talk about "rollplaying" but are insisting on a mechanical trait to inflict comedy? Fuck man, your GM can just have comedic timing the rules don't need to tell him that.

>>53329415
agreed

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Speaking of EP2, posting the playtest docs.

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>>53330502

>>53329415
>You know it's a MOXx10 test AND once per session in 1E, right?
That was the problem. If you had maxed Moxie, this had no effect. It was basically a moxie requirement for the morph. That you could apply to any synthmorph and get a discount.

That's why it was fixed.

>>53330784
That's a pretty stupid fix. The original problem only happened with minmaxxers. Now it's garbage to everyone all the time.

>>53330784

Well, if you had maxed moxie and hadn't spent any. It says use your "current" not total in the full description.

>>53330843

10% of 1-10% of the time.

>>53330843
>Now it's garbage to everyone during 10% of all critical failures.
FTFY

>>53330936

Actually, I guess that's technically 1-9% of the time, assuming 00 is still always a crit success.

Either way, very fractional. And yet, somehow knowing dice, likely to happen more than you'd think.

>>53331390
No. Now it's always garbage. It used to at least have dramatic/comedic timing. Not it's just bullshit.

>>53331543

It's a negative trait. It's not supposed to be good.

>>53331568
It's not supposed to be beneficial to the character. That's no reason it can't be beneficial to the narrative.

>>53331585

It gives you 2 CP back, that's all the benefit you need. Everything else is just what you make it.

>>53331603
Why is this an improvement for anyone other than a spineless GM who needs to ruleslawyer to counter minmaxing?

>>53331625

Well, there's no MOX x10 stat anymore, so it needed a new trigger anyway.

>>53331625
>Why is this an improvement for anyone other than a spineless GM who needs to ruleslawyer to counter minmaxing?
There are other reasons this new method is better. I for one like that I don't have to worry about the GM remembering it. I've seen plenty of players at tables get away with never having it affect them because they never mention anything and the GM forgets.

Second, the old way won't work because there is no more Moxie stat. Sorry, yo.

Okay, I gotta confess something.

This game has some amazing ideas. But its aesthetic is flat and dull. The fashions, the trends, the media, everything is super understated and reeks of communal snobbery.

Its like if your entire art department were like a group of yuppie soccer moms. If you are not going to embrace a more thematic art style, I'm going to fall asleep reading your books.

I'm thinking you'd do better with shots taken from clips of Pink Floyds "The Wall" in a softcover format with black and white ink than you would with this ultra-moderate stylizing.

An RPG without art is just a book.

>>53331665
>Second, the old way won't work because there is no more Moxie stat. Sorry, yo.
That doesn't make this solution good.

I've got nothing against 2e, but I'm going to finish buying 1e before I start 2e. I feel like a lot of the old art is dull but I want a complete set.

>>53331941
>That doesn't make this solution good.
Which is why it wasn't my first reason.

The other's a big one. If the GM never notices in 1e, it's not a real flaw.

Personally, had I been consulted I would have said that the only thing the new edition needs is new artwork. Don't fix what ain't broken.

Of course, I might not have been able to say that to a friend if I built the thing together with him.

>>53331915
That's amusing, given the game (and its aesthetic) is just ripped wholesale from the authors' favorite sci-fi.

>>53332237
Traveler?

>>53332175
>Personally, had I been consulted I would have said that the only thing the new edition needs is new artwork. Don't fix what ain't broken.
If I'm being honest, there was a bit to be fixed. But the fixes they are making aren't the ones I think should have happened.

The original game was cinematic-simulationist. What they seemed to be going towards is more cinematic-narrative.

What I was hoping was that they were going for narrative-simulationist, like Greg Stolze's Reign. A simplification of mechanics without a simplification of setting.

It sucks because I can see where they took inspiration from games like Fate and Apocalypse World, with more significant advancement and narrative elements. But the clumsy structure of skills is holding it back, and I think a large part of that is ironically because the designers can't think like transhumans.

Why are there so many pilot skills? Because the devs can't imagine a world where vehicles are bodies and want to keep the same skill structure they had in Shadowrun.

>>53332533

Yeah, everybody who knows how to drive a car has the exact same level of skill when flying a plane, driving a boat or piloting a space shuttle.

>>53332646
>Yeah, everybody who knows how to drive a car has the exact same level of skill when flying a plane, driving a boat or piloting a space shuttle.
Ever had your mind directly connected to a plane, boat or shuttle?

How do you know what it's even like, or how intuitive it is?

>>53332738

Oh god, you're one of those people who wank about how spaceships are AI-driven bricks with no space for humans of any kind, aren't you?

>>53332830
>Oh god, you're one of those people who wank about how spaceships are AI-driven bricks with no space for humans of any kind, aren't you?
No, I'm saying that 90% of all learning with a new device is figuring out the interface. What happens when the interface is direct thought?

I think people assume that the Piloting skill will be mostly learning HOW to fly, because that's what it is today. It won't, because that will be intuitive. The Piloting skill is about learning the nuance of movement, like the physics and the performance specs of the engines you have. The difference between flight, driving and boat will be as distinct as the difference between running, swimming and flapping wings.

All of which are covered by a single skill.

>>53332902

Okay, so you're not going to just call me a fucking luddite when I remind you that given the horror elements of EP (which has as much billing in the tagline as "transhuman") controlling every vehicle via direct MMI or "brain-to-brain" interfaces is a really bad idea for a lot of reasons. This would not be the predominant way of operating a vehicle, there would almost assuredly be physical controls which hopefully have a priority over virtual commands - because hacking and subversions of all digital systems was very bad in the Fall. If you can sit in a car or a spaceship, you are not teleoperating it - which in 1E has two forms one of which is basically just an AR/VR controller and not a literal "I am the machine" mode. And even if you argue it IS the predominant, everybody still has to learn to do it manual because how do you fly if the wi-fi is down?

Rogue cars is almost as bad as rogue security pods.

This would mean that understanding of piloting is the training on proper mechanics, controls and capabilities of vehicles in different categories which have different control schemes. Now yes, this also includes all non-humanoid mobility systems for morphs, but REF base (especially since COO is folded in) is much more sensible than the old SOM based Flight to govern something like thrust vector. And with Athletics, the mobility system itself is basically all the same - you move the muscles (or their analog) in your limbs.

Also, while discussing piloting, I think the chargen playtest doc is wrong - it was said on the forums the intent is for pilot to basically only be split 3 ways Ground, Water and Air/Space.

>>53333107
>Okay, so you're not going to just call me a fucking luddite when I remind you that given the horror elements of EP (which has as much billing in the tagline as "transhuman") controlling every vehicle via direct MMI or "brain-to-brain" interfaces is a really bad idea for a lot of reasons.
Mesh networks are a really bad idea for a lot of reasons. They still exist.

This is one of the reasons I vouch that infosec should be a defaultable skill. Few people in 10 AF outside the Junta and Minervan Fleet are going to be afraid of being on the Mesh. And if you aren't afraid of that, you're not gonna be afraid of piloting a ship by thought either. I agree that PCs will have a different mindset than NPCs. But they'll also have different skillsets as members of Firewall.

Maybe there can be a penalty if you're using physical controls. That said, those controls will have gone through decades of ergonomics development from the modern day.

>>53332738
Totally. A direct interface will mean the shuttle has just two degrees of freedom instead of six and doesn't involve orbital mechanics at all.

>>53333151
When you think about it, the internet is just a big security risk anyway. No reason for it to exist.

>>53333151
>This is one of the reasons I vouch that infosec should be a defaultable skill. Few people in 10 AF outside the Junta and Minervan Fleet are going to be afraid of being on the Mesh. And if you aren't afraid of that, you're not gonna be afraid of piloting a ship by thought either. I agree that PCs will have a different mindset than NPCs. But they'll also have different skillsets as members of Firewall.

Anyone who is not at least a little afraid of piloting spaceships and does it on a first try with his mind without any learning should be shot. Repeatedly.

Spaceships are fucking tincans of death that ride on plasma coming out their asses with enough power to trash a city block. And I'm not even talking about crashing it into anything.

They have normally at least 8 manoeuvrer drives besides main engines and a lot of other equipment that is needed for their operations.

>>53329415
>You can piss your robot pants any time, that's not actually something that matters and could happen on ANY critical failure. You talk about "rollplaying" but are insisting on a mechanical trait to inflict comedy? Fuck man, your GM can just have comedic timing the rules don't need to tell him that.

You don't see the difference between the GM saying "Your Lemon trait that you chose kicks in as you try to save the princess" and "You suddenly pee your pants in front of everyone for some reason lol" at random?

>>53333151
The internet is dangerous for numerous reasons, yet most have no fear, routinely fucking up computer and life in various ways; would you consider your granny having infosec as a defaultable skill?

>>53333634
>Totally. A direct interface will mean the shuttle has just two degrees of freedom instead of six and doesn't involve orbital mechanics at all.
Lolwut? Why on earth would you have less control with direct thought control and direct input of sensor information?

If anything, you'd have finer control and more intuitive understanding.

>>53334155
>Spaceships are fucking tincans of death that ride on plasma coming out their asses with enough power to trash a city block. And I'm not even talking about crashing it into anything.
There's a lot of open space out there for practicing. Like, a whole lot....

I mean yeah, you're a retard within several kilometers of anything. But in open space, it's no more dangerous than letting your kid sit on your lap while in a parking lot and try driving a little.

>>53335156
>would you consider your granny having infosec as a defaultable skill?
If you don't even have basic security fundamentals, no you shouldn't be ok the mesh.

In 10AF, that knowledge is like walking and toilet shitting.

>>53329363
>Are you not aware that applying and installing a patch are equivalent in common usage?

Yes.

It seems you really don't know what a patch is. Huh. This explains so much. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patch_(computing) You can change language under "Languages" at the bottom of the left-hand column, if it helps.

>>53335180
>In 10AF, that knowledge is like walking and toilet shitting.
Obviously not, since, much like using the internet in 2017 is like walking and toilet-shitting to everyone in the western world, the vast majority have fucking zero understanding of security fundamentals. This is part of the existential dread that suffuses every atom of a Firewall mesh security expert.

>>53335180

>In 10AF, that knowledge is like walking and toilet shitting.

Okay, Mr. PS writer - if you have the ability to make such clear and absolute statements about the setting why is the defaulting rule still there.

It's there because you don't write EP, and perhaps the people who do make it are trying to say things about the setting with the rules without holding your fucking hand the entire time.

>>53335180
>There's a lot of open space out there for practicing. Like, a whole lot....
And you can just train in a simulation, too. Doesn't mean that you don't have to train. Skills aren't relevant for when things can't go wrong. If it's just open space with nothing in it and you can't activate the wrong systems (which you absolutely can do, whether it's dumping the fuel or burning out critical systems because you don't know when to stop them), the skill isn't relevant at all.

>it's no more dangerous than letting your kid sit on your lap while in a parking lot and try driving a little.
You really are retarded.

>>53335325
>Obviously not, since, much like using the internet in 2017 is like walking and toilet-shitting to everyone in the western world, the vast majority have fucking zero understanding of security fundamentals.
The first generation of drivers acted like retards too, and drove in open carriages you could fall out of. What's your point?

People get smarter, designs improve, and things we take for granted today become common understanding.

>Okay, Mr. PS writer - if you have the ability to make such clear and absolute statements about the setting why is the defaulting rule still there.
Because the devs, like 90% of sci-fi writers, are mostly working from modern assumptions. And you couldn't default that kinda shit in Shadowrun, and many of the game's artifacts are holdovers from that.

No defaulting does seem like a bit of an artifact with the smaller skill list, but it's important to note that the basic level of skill training is still the same, but starting CP is worth more - a single point will raise you to basic education level in InfoSec or Programming for an average person if you character does actually know more in life besides "don't turn off Firewall and let onboard ALI handle it".

Because as a skill, InfoSec has way more to do with how to break systems than to guard them, though obviously knowing what kind of attacks people can make helps to detect and block them.

>>53335180
Just the fact that it's NOT a defaultable skill suggests that you're dead-on fucking wrong, and if anything, the fact that information security ISN'T ubiquitously known just adds to the horror in a setting where faulty security can fuck everyone over. There's a reason entire habs are lost due to TITAN and why it spreads so quickly when it comes into contact with the general population, anon.

>>53335412
>InfoSec has way more to do with how to break systems than to guard them, though obviously knowing what kind of attacks people can make helps to detect and block them.
I disagree. I've taught infosec classes, and people don't need to know offensive measures unless they are pentesting.

The least you need to know is identifying suspicious behavior and what to do after.

>>53335419
>Just the fact that it's NOT a defaultable skill suggests that you're dead-on fucking wrong, and if anything, the fact that information security ISN'T ubiquitously known just adds to the horror in a setting where faulty security can fuck everyone over.
They didn't do it because offensive and defensive security is handled by a single skill.

>>53335401
>People get smarter
No, no, they really don't. They're still people. Shitty, petty, ignorant people, even if we up their IQ artificially by a few points, they're still people. The idea that InfoSec would be ubiquitous on a hedonist scum barge is absurd.

>>53335412
>No defaulting does seem like a bit of an artifact with the smaller skill list
The smaller skill list is shit, though.

>Because as a skill, InfoSec has way more to do with how to break systems than to guard them, though obviously knowing what kind of attacks people can make helps to detect and block them.
This.

Everyone has basic, automated security. This doesn't mean that it's something defaultable, just like having a basic virus program and sitting behind a router firewall doesn't make me a hacker.

>>53335461
>They didn't do it because offensive and defensive security is handled by a single skill.
Yes, because it represents advanced knowledge of InfoSec, not just someone smashing their dick against "Scan Now" and feeling pride over having saved their home network. OMG DAD YOU ARE SUCK A SysAdmin Hacker LAWL ALMOST LIKE ANONYMOUS DDoS ME UwU.

>>53335461

I mean, you can disagree all you like, I'm talking about the skill description. A majority of it's focus and specialization is in the various methods of subversion - only security and encryption stand out as "defensive" rolls, and encrypt isn't even a sample spec. The majority of the focus is on the use of it to break into systems.

And depending on what you mean about "suspicious behavior" >>53335475 is right, that might not even be an InfoSec roll. You might just make other skills or even aptitude "common sense" rolls to be like "Gee, my computer is acting a bit weird, how do I fix that. Hey, Muse google 'do I have a virus?' for me."

Which probably gets you "DOWNLOAD FREE VIRUS SCAN SOFT NOW"

>>53335504

Let's bring this up in more detail - Skills are not an end-all-be-all of the mechanics. Aptitude rolls are a thing. You can totally roll an INT check to "evaluate a situation" to see if you think something weird or wrong is going on.

The question is do you have the specific, advanced knowledge to do something about it. So far, EP still treats certain computer tasks like that (probably because of the many more advanced facets of these skills. Program goes from making a program which says "hello world" to coding Nanofab blueprints or multipurpose expert systems). You might be able to note something unusual going on with a computer system you're on, but might not have the skills to actually do complex countermeasures.

Keeping in mind we have no idea what the hacking system looks like yet in 2E - it's supposed to be revamped.

>>53335475
>No, no, they really don't. They're still people. Shitty, petty, ignorant people, even if we up their IQ artificially by a few points, they're still people.
Agreed. And yet we went from a literacy rate of about 10-15% to 95-98% in only a century. A skill once reserved only to priests and kings is now taught with tiny, noisy books to 3-year olds.

Intelligence is relative. No matter how smart our descendants are, there will be dumbasses among them.

But this game is not about those people.

>>53335688
You're confusing intelligence with knowledge. There's a huge difference between basic literacy and getting people to learn complex computer security offence/defence.

>>53335688
>we went from a literacy rate of about 10-15% to 95-98% in only a century.
What kind of shitty fucking nignog backwater did you come from where that would be true? Fuck, I can't even think of a nignog backwater where that would be true, since their loteracy rates are still shit, since their average intelligence is so much lower.

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>>53335688
I recently saw pic related in another thread. It's a guy who rants about his experience dealing with the Chinese, primarily about such things as being dealt the wrong grade of steel, or sold straight up junk hidden under a few sheets of decent metal. It struck me as a relatively recent (historically speaking) problem that must have only existed for the last couple hundred years or so, still getting a foothold like >>53335401 seems to think will happen.

Then a few weeks later I ran across a story about an "Ea-Nasir", a Babylonian dude who regularly scammed people. Some of the earliest written business records modern man has ever seen -- nearly 4000 years old -- and it's a bunch of complaints about a dude selling people the wrong grade of metal, just like this extremely recent written record from only one year ago.

People really don't change.

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Are there Aboriginal Uplifts/Neo-Abbos in Eclipse Phase, or did they all die out in The Fall?

>>53337196
No, only the more intelligent hominids and some animals were uplifted, including dolphins, whales, chimps and gorillas, octopi, ravens/crows, and pigs. It can only be assumed that australian aboriginals were wiped out in The Fall.

>>53319513
>Discuss Posthuman's recent decision to be even worse than usual "because fascists" and the impending trainwreck of politicized garbage that is 2nd Edition.
Haha, I haven't been here for awhile. What happened? Did they "fire" part of their fanbase again?

>>53337401
You aren't allowed to play Ultimates anymore because "we don't want to encourage playing fascists".

>>53337417
wew lad

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Question.

I want to play a character with a Down Syndrome.
Where can I find information on settlements inhabited in EP universe by people with Down Syndrome and are there any morphs that allow you to play as someone with Down Syndrome. What are their stats?

>>53337453
Downs Syndrome has been cured. The closest you're going to get are people sleeved into downie-like morphs and pretending to be downies.

>>53337484
>Downs Syndrome has been cured.
WTF? Did they say this in the books ? That's terrible ableism ! My brother has down syndrom and he is perfectly normal ! We can't treat normal people as they need curing!

I seriously hope you are just joking, because otherwise I will find this highly upsetting and my faith in Posthuman Studios shaken.

>>53337401
http://eclipsephase.com/comment/61134#comment-61134

>>53337546
>http://eclipsephase.com/comment/61134#comment-61134


Reminds me of this:
http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=3098
Brian Cross says:
Quinnae,
" Both Rob (the other creator) and myself put a lot of our own personal politics into the game and wanted to create a world that was both grim (to drive dramatic elements) but also hopeful in what new technologies may mean for challenging oppressive power structures and as avenues for liberation and expression. "

http://eclipsephase.com/regarding-mras?page=1
"As I said not exactly. I don't believe that men, as a group, have valid rights claims."
Brian Cross Posthuman Studios

The New Laboratory of Dreams: Roleplaying Games as Resistance
Women's Studies Quarterly
December 2012
Authors: Katherine Cross
In brief, it is a theoretical argument that roleplaying games-- as highly malleable, interactive media-- are fertile sites of political imagination. I perform an exegetical analysis of Eclipse Phase to illustrate the potential of truly politically sophisticated games and suggest that they can help to shift peoples' consciousness in less prejudiced directions, as well as engineer empathy for others.

http://rhrealitycheck.org/author/katherine-cross/
Katherine Cross is a pizza loving feminist sociologist, trans Latina, and amateur slug herder, working on her PhD at the CUNY Graduate Centre. When she's not studying or gaming she can be found at the Sylvia Rivera Law Project. Her blog can be found at quinnae.com and her writing has also appeared in Women's Studies Quarterly, Bitch Magazine, Questioning Transphobia, and Kotaku.

>truly politically sophisticated games and suggest that they can help to shift peoples' consciousness in less prejudiced directions, as well as engineer empathy for others.
>truly politically sophisticated games
>engineer empathy for others.
>politically sophisticated
>engineer empathy
>politically
>engineer

Thanks for the info about 2E. I don't think I'll be returning.

>>53337582
Yeah, it doesn't help that the developers gasp of politics and ideologies is beyond shallow, but that's sorta what happens when you actively don't want to talk to people, and discourage learning from others because you've assigned them an arbitrary label that encompasses "everything I don't like", despite not knowing shit about it.

>>53328967
Book explicitly says only the low hanging fruit have been picked regarding uplifts, rabbits are such high fruit there may as well be another tree growing on top of the first tree growing fruit which is in turn growing a third even higher tree.

There's nothing to stop you sleeving in a body biosculpted into a rabbit body with a hither and alpha drug gland permanently turned on. But Furry players never want to play as Furry humans for some reason. Even though a rabbit brain would require so much editing to meet social standards it would practically be a human/AI.

>>53338021
>a rabbit brain would require so much editing to meet social standards it would practically be a human/AI.

Rabbits are dumb as shit, but socially they're a lot closer to humans than octopuses are.

>>53331568
It's not about being beneficialor detrimental to the character, it's about being detrimental to the character but beneficial to the game.

The 1st Ed. version makes a clear suggestion to make it kick in for maximum hilarity, at the worst possible time.

The 2nd Ed., completely removes this aspect of storytelling and turns it into a rollplaying effect with no implied narrative relevance, and also drastically reduces the chance of it kicking in, especially with carefullly avoiding doing stuff.

>>53338065
What's stopping you from having it flare up for dramatic effect in 2E?

>>53337535
>Did they say this in the books ?
Yes, all chromosomal or genetic diseases/damages have practically been fixed, at least in splicers.

Strangely, in-utero hormonal damage is still there, though, because homosexuals sre still a thing. Just really goes to show the arbitrary inconsistencies of the developers.

>>53338080
Getting players to sabotage themselves at the most hilarious or inoppertune moments isn't really a thing, especially when it involves potential humiliation. Nevermind other players that are going to shit on you for ruining things for no fucking reason.

>>53338083
It's entirely plausible that some parents might intentionally toggle the "gay switch" in their children.

>>53338105
>Getting players to sabotage themselves at the most hilarious or inoppertune moments isn't really a thing, especially when it involves potential humiliation.
Your players sound like weak faggots desu. I'd do it in a second with my character if it was dramatically appropriate.

>>53338048
You're implying there's part of the brain we can cut out and keep social standards without affecting other things, that's 100% not how brains work at all. By Socially Acceptable I mean the hypothetical rabbit has the intelligence not to piss on the street corner and understand why.

Most Social behavior can be taught to a sufficiently human brain the barrier in Eclipse Phase is clearly technical issues and the question of why uplift species when all you'll be doing with the dumbest ones is just re-engineering their brains completely into human ones when you can do better things with your time. Someone in your setting can always be doing it if they really want but the setting already gives a perfectly acceptable way to be a bunny man if you really want to.

>>53337582

The creators of Eclipse Phase clearly believe their niche tabletop roleplaying game is going to save the world.

This is why it's best just to have your own continuous setting and just use the splats for inspiration rather than listen to P.S canon, my best characters have been sympathetic facists.

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>>53338133
>if it was dramatically appropriate.
It's up to what you define as "dramatically appropriate". A good GM's version of "appropriate" differs heavily from any player's. The idea isn't to have it happen when it's dramatically inappropriate, but when it's inappropriate, period.

And it wouldn't change the fact that the other players would call you a faggot for fucking up the mission for absolutely no other reason other than being a faggot that stubs your toe for attention. Or that the GM would be a faggot for just randomly making you piss your pants or "picking on you" without any reason.

>>53338200
>This is why it's best just to have your own continuous setting and just use the splats for inspiration rather than listen to P.S canon, my best characters have been sympathetic facists.
I agree completely, and I'm still toying with the idea of asking Chuck if I can get a dump of his wiki, just so I can put up a separate "homebrew"-wiki as a community project. I'm not sure what that would cost, though, or if I'm willing/able to pay that.

The thing is, according to the dogma of the developers, there's no such thing as a sympathetic fascist. I haven't played any fascists in Eclipse Phase - the closest I can get is an autistic/socially inept async investigator that was a die-hard fan of the Jovian Republic - but in Shadowrun I once played a german unapologetically fascist/nazi elf that argued that Hitler was one of the first awakened elves. One of the best damn characters I ever played and his death sequence legit made my GM cry.

But nope, fascist are evil, bash the fash and cut your hair so edgy it pierces the sky. Eclipse Phase has some really good and interesting parts to it, but everything that touches on politics, ideology or related structures relating to the organizations in the games makes me groan.

>>53338286
>But nope, fascist are evil, bash the fash and cut your hair so edgy it pierces the sky. Eclipse Phase has some really good and interesting parts to it, but everything that touches on politics, ideology or related structures relating to the organizations in the games makes me groan.
And yet I bet the devs would have no problem with you playing out feudalist fantasies in Blue Rose.

In equality land, having a ruling noble class is acceptable as long as gay sex and sex changes are legal.

>>53335285
firmware has patches

>>53332175
>Of course, I might not have been able to say that to a friend if I built the thing together with him.
I'm sorry, Rob Boyle.

If it's any consolation, I largely agree with you. I would have just stuck with the old book layout and heavily revised the rules text. It just needed some kinks ironed out.

>>53338200
>You're implying there's part of the brain we can cut out and keep social standards without affecting other things, that's 100% not how brains work at all

In Eclipse Phase it is. You can argue that's not how it works in real life, but in EP the ability to cut out or modify parts of the brain without affecting other things is explicitly part of the setting.

>>53339253
>the ability to cut out or modify parts of the brain without affecting other things

Not exactly, they say that psy-surgery is dangerous and more of an art than a science.

>>53338345
>And yet I bet the devs would have no problem with you playing out feudalist fantasies in Blue Rose.
>In equality land, having a ruling noble class is acceptable as long as gay sex and sex changes are legal.

The devs are typical western rich snowflakes.
They like to virtue signal a lot while thinly concealing their racism towards Latin Americans and Slavic people combined with contempt for the poor.

>>53339401
>virtue signal
Used incorrectly.

People sure are getting their panties in a twist over how EP's politics are going to ruin 2e, as if EP 1e didn't have anarchist suicide bombers being called "freedom fighters", or Mars being a capitalist hell but Extropia - twice the capitalism, none of the legal safeguards! - is somehoe awesome. EP's politics have always been something you have to work around.

Honestly, it's part of the fun for me. Plus, 2e looks like a big improvement, for chargen at least. I'm not thrilled with the opposed roll mechanics still.

>>53339695
>or Mars being a capitalist hell but Extropia - twice the capitalism, none of the legal safeguards! - is somehoe awesome
Extropia has literal slavery. What the fuck did you read?

>>53337196

Escaping during the Fall tended to favour people who were both in the majority (sampling bias), in a wealthy country, and wealthy themselves. Australian aboriginals are, sadly, not much in the first or last category. A few might've escaped, as infugees or even luckily enough to get offworld bodily, but they're going to be very rare.

The genetic diversity they represent is huge, though. I imagine any who got offworld bodily could sell their DNA for a small fortune.

>>53335688
New skills can be learned; but the default mental capabilities stay the same and those set the skills available. (setting aside the Flynn effect for the moment, which has stopped, seems to be limited to abstract IQ, and is probably nutrient-based).

Like you point out, low-level literacy is a skill 98% of people can learn. But high-level literacy isn't. It's a skill inside the mental range of only 6% of people.

Forty years ago, 12% of people had degrees. 25% of the people with a degree could get a top 5% score on a GSS Wordsum literacy test. Today, a third of people have degrees, but only 1 in 12 can score that.

The education available has skyrocketed, but educating more average people doesn't raise them to the level of high level people, not even for rote memorization of vocabulary knowledge.

>>53339762

Mars has literal slavery too. Everywhere that has capitalism has slavery in this game.

>>53339767

I just realized the person I was replying to was kinda just being a racist shithead but whatever.

>>53339794
Indentures have at least some rights.

The big complaint of Mars is that it isn't self-governed.

>>53339780
>The education available has skyrocketed, but educating more average people doesn't raise them to the level of high level people, not even for rote memorization of vocabulary knowledge.
And I'm not arguing against that. I'm just saying that the average knowledge of the average dumbass is slightly better than the average dumbass of today. And that knowledge likely includes CURSORY infosec skills.

Note that this has always been about defaulting, which uses your aptitude score and never goes above 30 in this Edition. That's not a significant defense by any means. I'm just saying that everyone should be ABLE to defend themselves, albeit shitty in most cases.

>>53339812

Most places on Mars are self-governed, though. The Planetary Consortium is an economic regulatory body that can strong-arm you, but local settlements have their own governments, own representatives, etc.

It's like the WTO, really.

Also, on Extropia, you basically have the same rights as on Mars: You give up whichever ones your employer wants you to, to avoid cold storage.

>>53339814
This is also my biggest reason for supporting defaulting. As someone said before, I agree that an average person shouldn't be able to do heart surgery without training. But that average person is going to have an aptitude of 10-15, which means he'll probably not even have a chance to succeed after penalties kick in (I doubt his dumbass is using proper sterility protocols). There's really nothing that changes.

Defaulting uses relatively low stats for rolls. It's not a serious risk that incompetent characters will do all these amazing things due to the mechanics.

>>53339852
The PC is a much more powerful than the WTO, and it's controlling a world which doesn't need its help. It's also profiting strongly from doing so.

And there are limits to the rights you can be asked to give up on Mars, under the PC.

>>53339852
Let me explain it a different way.

The tyranny of Extropia is (potentially) a great crime against the individual, while the tyranny of the PC is a lesser crime against whole societies.

//////

Here's an interesting question:

If you default on a contract with a slavery penalty, can you fork your way out of it?

>>53337196
Australia doesn't even know the Fall happened. They just think the internet is slower than usual.

>>53339964

The WTO is surprisingly powerful, and largely runs as the PC does: Agree to our trade rules, our guarantees on property rights, and our dispute resolution system or suffer punitive tarriffs from our members, effectively cutting you off from trade. Naturally, these rules benefit the powerful and oppresss the weak.

And, sure, Mars has a few limits on indenture. But not many. And even with Extropia's no-holds-barred slavery, it still gets a positive write-up.

>>53335401
>People get smarter, designs improve, and things we take for granted today become common understanding.

People get shit crammed in their heads but the fact that they CAN be smarter doesn't mean they will. Because most of the time it means going out of your comfort zone and actually doing something hard.

A scientist or a special agent? Yeah they'll get to use their bonuses to brain functions. Some rich fuck who bought a morph just because he could? He gonna shit all the functions down the drain by neglecting them. Like people who don't exercise losing muscle mass, speed and precision of movements. You absolutely can fuck up your mental state the same way.

>>53340002

On Extropia... probably. Well, the fork'll get out of it. I think all Autonomist circles generally treat forks - at least Alphas, as new people who are legally seperate from the Prime.

But the prime still has to do the time.

>>53339695

Also this is 4chan, we like to take short comments and then latch on to them forever and ignore all future comments - repeating the same shit even years later.

>>53340002
>If you default on a contract with a slavery penalty, can you fork your way out of it?
Depends on what exclusivity clauses (if any) are in the contract.

Also if you default on the contract it will be pretty hard to get enough bling to fork.

>>53341408

I mean, depending on the setup you don't need any bling to fork. If you have an Ecto and a Cyberbrain RAW in 1e you can fork in a few seconds.

Fork you will not be happy about being crammed into the itty-bitty living space but he'll be out there.

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>>53338048
>Rabbits are dumb as shit

>>53331652
>Well, there's no MOX x10 stat anymore

Which, by the way, is also shit, how do you gauge general luck, now? Previously, MOX x10 was basically used as a random luck stat whenever such things were called for, whether by rules or the GM.

>>53341465
I'm now imagining a fork in what amounts to a large room of nothing, and all he can do is play pong or watch a view-screen out of your eyes, at least without mesh access (in which case, who gives a shit? VR porn!)

>>53341789

If you want to have something specifically lucky happen to you, that's what Flex is for.

I'm assuming we're doing away with pure luck "save or die" type rolls and rolling into aptitude checks (which are broader now, and have support in the form of traits). MOX x10 was also sometimes weird, because I'm pretty sure there were cases where it was always your maximum stat - and others where it was based on your current moxie.

>>53341789
Well we *could* just not have people have mysterious probability warping abilities

>>53339428
>Used incorrectly.
No.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling

>>53341882
Yes, we could, but that's boring, and simply rolling vs. 50 for everything is as shitty as flipping a coin.

>>53341926
At what point did I suggest that adds should always be even? Just don't have it depend on the person.

>>53341976
So, what, first roll up a random number that youu then roll against?

>>53342030
The GM would decide the probability.

For instance, the odds of your package arriving on time might be high, while the odds of drawing a flush in poker might be low.

>>53339780
I'm not questooning it, but do you have any sources on hand? I have a cursory interest and I could Google it, but I thought I'd ask since it seems you read it somewhere and might find it faster/easier.

>>53342113
Seems extremely arbitrary for something that's supposed to be seemingly random, especially if we consider more serious effects that could involve screwing someone over.

>>53342168
Making probable events probable and improbable events improbable is extremely arbitrary?

>>53319513

I like how the character picked for this meme is a hypercorp character.

>>53342404
Yes, unless you actually crunch the probabilities first, you're just pulling assumptions out of your hat and forcing players to deal with it. Lemon, currently operating under MOX x10, simply wouldn't work in a reasonable fashion; you'd just be back to the same situation of it either not mattering at all, or the GM suddenly forcing you to wet your pants.

So, question, what the fuck is happening to the Iconic Ultimate philosophy? THe 'we should all aspire to perfection; it is our duty as those furthest along to inspire those lesser to seek the correct path' types, the 'We do not lead or follow, we blaze a trail so that others may pick up our torch' types? The (relatively) nice, non-fascist ultimates?

>>53342126
I don't have a handy summary but the original data is right here: http://gss.norc.org/

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>>53343397
Neato. Thanks.

>>53343379
That can still be pretty fascistoid, it's just that you don't see a point in, y'know, fucking murderhoboing everyone, because why the fuck would you unless you're a fascist caricature dreamt up by anarch.. oh, yes, right.

We can only assume that they're pretty much SOL. They said that fluff-wise, the Ultimates are still in the setting, but I expect the writing to be even more shallow and strawmanny, based on what they've been saying.

>>53344232

A pity, one of my favorite characters was an Iconic Ultimate.

but then again, I might be everything the authors hate; my favorite factions are the Extropians, the Ultimates, and the Jovians in roughly that order.

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>>53344350
I'm an unapologetic nationalist and third-positionist that has run for political office in my home town. To them I'm literally a fascist activist. I think I've got you beat in the "The devs probably fucking hates me"-department.

That said, my favourite faction is probably the Jovians, but mostly "as reinterpreted by my group" (more Heinlein, less hurr durr pinochet hurr durr catholics), followed by Firewall itself, as boring as that sounds.

>>53344350

At times seems like they have a capitalist libertarians in the team that they let speak from time to time or something just by looking into how Extropia and similar habitats are modeled.

What they don't seem to be is anarcho syndicalists, they must fall under anarcho communist or anarchists without adjectives, a pity since a distributed syndicate can bring interesting things.

>>53344543
>>53344533

I haven't run for public office; but my own political views place me fairly firmly in the Libertarian part of the spectrum, though I'm not a goddamn Randroid about it; I'm more like the Utilitarian faction. Capitalism is a method of optimizing universal happiness via the medium of trade; big government gets in the way of that, and communism isn't about optimizing universal happiness but reducing universal *unhappiness*, which is not the same--it's like saying 'I could have a giant, delicious burger; but I'll settle for mcdonalds'. Never settle. Aim for the stars.

>>53344232

My favourite PC was an Ultimate. She as fun.

Citlali Badeux, a Iconic who was big on the idea that the Ultimates were about perfection in all things. Social interaction is as much a useful skill as any other and personal capability doesn't preclude working with others.

So she was an Ultimate socialite. Able to play all the social games of the other groups without making that all that she was. She melded an old sense of noblesse oblige (She was a socialite before she joined the Ultimates. After all, no one is born into them) with the Ultimate ideals. Yes, she was better than you. That's why it was her duty to help those who had not taken that path and show people the perfection they could be.

She had maxed out Networking: Media and had gotten second place in Celebrity Deathmatch (Losing to a talk show host who turned up in a Fenrir with 5 Alpha forks of himself).

Is it possible to get a synthmorph blueprint of yourself? Such as scanning your current body, creating a blueprint?

I'm asking because it would be nice to be able to just recreate a customized synthmorph instead of starting with the base synthmorph again and add all the bells and whistles separately.

You can find a faction interesting and still think they're a bag of dicks. The Ultimates' questioning of whether wiping out all non-Ultimates is necessary for minimizing risk vectors is horrible but intriguing. The basis of the question is legitimate, but the means is horrifying. The big question out of that, though, is what if they're right?

I wish they'd give anarchists that level of grit.

>>53345668
Yeah, it's hard to disagree with the Ultimates, when their position is entirely legitimate. The vast majority of transhumanity consists of ignorant genetrash that only care for decadence or petty squabbles with toys most of them cannot even comprehend, as otherworldly horrors on a Cthulhuesque level lurks not only just over the horizon you're moving towards, but from the place you can from, and in your midst.

The only ones that don't conform to this is pretty much the Jovians and Firewall, and the former is actively regressive, and the latter is mostly made up of the same people that are posing a problem whenever they're not acting as Firewall.

>>53341215
yeah? and who's going to know?

>>53345762
Isn't there some way to track forking, determine if someone is a fork, or the fork of a fork, etc.?

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Jovian-Ultimate Alliance to reconquer Solar System from Genethrash when?

>>53346215
Absolutely never, genetrash.

>>53346215


You are now literal walking X-risks, hell no, Sol is going to be jovian or nothing.

>>53343018
Well Lemon in particular could be a flat probability. That would probably be fairer than the 1st edition version anyway.

>>53344533
Psssh. I'm a real-world aspiring exhuman.

>>53346488
Critical failures aren't going to happen that often for players, and 10% of those failures isn't a significant total. You might see it once per character with the trait per 2-3 sessions, maybe twice every now and then... which is fine. I don't see why everyone is in such a fuss over it.

>>53344954
Synthetic mask

>>53345877
Sure, you fucking scum, just put you're brand right there on your clones fucking arm.

>>53341215

I suppose business add clauses to own the alpha forks at the moment the terms of the slavery clause can be applied so people don't go the smartass way.

And if your new lord founds out about your trickery, he will not only denounce you but will probably force you to find your own fork and bring him back, failure to do so will mean that the terms of the slavery clause will be extended indefinitely until you manage to deliver, and when you do, every moment that you spent looking for yourself will be added to your slavery period by a factor that should be defined in the clause, or even face other kind of penalties.

Doing it in a sneaky way, BEFORE the contract can be applied can actually be considered as premeditation to a third party arbiter looking into your case, making things worse.

And doing it really sneaky, without anyone noticing ever... welp that means that the business still gets what it wants; a controlled unpaid worker to compensate for whatever you did wrong to trigger the clause in the first place.

>>53345756

The thing is, it's easy to disagree with the Ultimates. Memetic diversity is valuable; neurological diversity is valuable; cladistic diversity is valuable. Nature's biggest lesson - and agriculture, the remedial class for it - is that monocultures are far less likely to survive than diverse ones.

Also, there's the whole "Purging everyone who is not us would make existence a nightmare from which there is no waking up" thing.

The Ultimates ask an interesting question, and their position has enough merit that it makes you wonder. That makes them worth keeping. Likewise, their nihilism stands out against a setting that otherwise seems to swallow hard notions of human rights. This doesn't mean Ultimates have to be human rights violators at every turn - there are entirely separate reasons for respecting commonly accepted rights - but it definitely makes for a different perspective.

I like that variety.

>>53348452

>Quaid....
>Start the reactor!
>Free Mars!

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FACT: If you're not actively working to bootstrap all of transhumanity to Seed level intelligence, you're bitch shit and dead weight for the rest of us.

>>53337196
>Implying native australians are animals/less evolved

Back2/pol/

>>53346550
That isn't even close to what I was asking.

>>53348807
>"native australians"

No, no, abbos. The ones that are one of the least developed and least intelligent hominids. It's basically them, bushmen, and pygmies. They've got an IQ of ~60.

>>53349899

Back to /pol/, mate.

>>53350170
You first.

>>53349899

Got any statistics to back that up? From all I've seen, most Aboriginals don't seem to differ from any other group with systemic poverty, lack of educational access, and substance abuse.

So, anyone have a list of game ideas that don't involve Firewall? Preferably, that'd allow for long-term games in one location and not a constant string of fake IDs.

Okay, does anyone else find the hardline on Ultimates being fascists... weird?

Politics aside, I got the impression they were as diverse and in-fight-y as Firewall was, especially for a sect of philosophers and genemodders (to put it lightly).

There's Ultimates who might be a tad haughty (and it'd be justified if your morph was top-of-the-line), but want the rest of the universe to at least challenge themselves, and are perfectly willing to help out non-Ultimates in fighting off X-risks and Exsurgent crap.

Then you've got what the authors do not like, the cumskin fuckboy fascist who sneer at anything that isn't a Remade and variants because they're "not genetically pure" (read: standards pulled out of their ass), and want to conquer the rest of transhumanity to purify it of lesser, weaker individuals.

Then you've got the near-exhumans who just think really fucking weird and don't have traditional morals at all - close to Nietzsche's supermen or even old-timey fairies, in keeping with the Not-Space-Elves.

Heck, I didn't see the whole of them as fascists - I saw them more as loonier, more racist Objectivists/lolbertarians.

>>53350487
Security crew fighting off Legban pirates or assigned to protect a VIP.

Diplomatic mission attempting to bring peace to those who want Mars independent and those who don't.

Good ol' fashioned corporate espionage in the vein of Shadowrun.

You can also do the popular mesh/AR/VR games - Breakout is apparently not-Rust, Mecha Mash(?) is Battletech/MW, War of Wizards(?) is essentially WoW/Tolkien-style high fantasy.

Minervan Fleet ops can also be pretty interesting, if you don't mind fighting angry Flats.

>>53349899
Do you unironically have "FUCK OFF WE'RE FULL" plastered on your car and why haven't you had the shit kicked out of you by actual Nazis yet?

>>53352253
It's all just weird websites quoting Richard Lynn, who said this:

>I think the only solution lies in the breakup of the United States. Blacks and Hispanics are concentrated in the Southwest, the Southeast and the East, but the Northwest and the far Northeast, Maine, Vermont and upstate New York have a large predominance of whites. I believe these predominantly white states should declare independence and secede from the Union. They would then enforce strict border controls and provide minimum welfare, which would be limited to citizens. If this were done, white civilization would survive within this handful of states."

Probably not a very objective viewpoint. apply yourself better when using shitty stats.

>>53350456
Gb2/pol/ they'll be happy to educate you.

>>53350170
>>53350456
Never forget the ancient Abbo civilization that lies buried in sands of Australian desert.

>>53350456
>most Aboriginals don't seem to differ from any other group with systemic poverty, lack of educational access, and substance abuse
And how many of those groups are known for having high IQs?

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Am I the only one that now cannot help but to think of Asyncs as Prey-style psionics ever since Prey hit? I think it fits pretty well, especially considering the horror themes and the mystery that are asyncs/psionics in Eclipse Phase, whatwith manipulation of akashic fields and quantum states and whatnot.

Bar stuff like Mimic and direct or obvious energy manipulation, at least, because I can't imagine asyncs turning into teacups.

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>>53353652
Whoops, wrong picture.

>>53352253
>You mean like whites in South Africa?
I think you've got your apartheid backwards.

>>53354245
>I think you've got your apartheid backwards.
I think you've been in cryogenic stasis for the last 30 years.

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>>53354245
>I think you've got your apartheid backwards.
No, the ANC does.

http://lmgtfy.com/?t=i&q=whites+south+africa
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=boer+genocide

Do you think that in 3ed we can finally turn all the shitlord factions into x-risks and have anarchists as the only playable faction?

>>53351859

Corporate espionage or police detectives seem the default. I suppose I can take inspiration from GitS too.

>>53355821
>Even Africacheck
* Not even

>>53355821
>It is not about the exact number of murdered over the time-period, but about a reign of terror and displacement.
There's a limit to how much terror can be caused by rare events.

No one is saying this is okay, but it's hardly what you originally described.

>>53355821
>1990, there were 5,044,000 white South Africans. 2016, that number was 4,515,800, despite a total population increase in South Africa.
Where did they go then?

Seriously, if there was a total population increase, then there should be more white South Africans. Either they had a net population decrease from lower reproduction or they emigrated elsewhere.
Or you're claiming there are more deaths than the numbers state.

>>53355951
>Either they had a net population decrease from lower reproduction or they emigrated elsewhere.
In reality it was a combination of both. The emigration could *hypothetically* fit into the narrative of forced displacement via violence, but in reality it was mostly for economic reasons.

>>53355951
Oh, also the population of half-white South Africans has climbed dramatically.

>>53356051
>Oh, also the population of half-white South Africans has climbed dramatically.
Interesting he did not count them as part of the white population.

And telling.

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What the hell is it with this South Africa talk in EPG? South Africa is an irradiated wasteland in 10AF.

>>53356092
So you wouldn't count half-black South Africans as part of the black population?

"Tools" are described as:

>Tools: Tools come in kits (portable), shops (can fit into a large vehicle), and facilities (large, non-mobile). Each set of tools applies to a particular skill, such as Hardware: Electronics or Hardware: Groundcraft. [Low (Kit), High (Shop), Expensive (Facility)]

But what do they *do* that I can't do with a Utilitool?

>>53356161
Clearly you can't count them as just one or the other, but by ignoring them completely as racistanon was doing he was creating a false narrative.

>>53356156
Just some racist probably Australian redneck baiting people.

>>53356210
>Characters using a utilitool gain a +10 modifier to skills involving repairing or modifying devices with mechanical parts, opening locks, disarming alarm systems, or performing first aid.

From the Hardware skill:
>Numerous factors may apply modifiers to the test, such as the use of entoptic blueprints/help manuals (+20) or poor working conditions (–10 to –30). Tools are also a factor, perhaps making the job easier (superior tools +10 to +30), more difficult (poor or inadequate tools, –10 to –30), or even impossible (lack of required tools).

So if the utilitool is [low] and the kit of tools is [low] but more specialized, why buy the kit?

First off, the kit of tools can be used by multiple people at the same time. Second, I would argue that the bonuses would stack for a portable kit. Third, there are things the tool kit helps with that the utilitool doesn't.

Um, am I reading this playtest document right? There's no freeform way of creating characters anymore?

If so, wow, it really is trash after all.

>>53356514

Freeform isn't in the playtest doc. It'll be in the final product in some kind of alternate/advanced format, but part of the point with 2E is to make easier ways to do things more basic.

That said the package system is really loose, you can swap around all kinds of shit and 20 CP goes pretty far.

>>53356210

Utilitool is like a pocket multitool. It does a lot of things but it's still a single hand tool. The Tool Kit contains an assortment of specialized tools for a particular skill which may make certain specific actions possible, or just help do a more thorough and professional job.

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>>53356746
Here's the (You) you seem to be so desperate for.

>>53356746
>Interracial marriage is just another facet of white genocide
wow

>>53357418
You know, I once got a temporary ban for posting an article about anarchist riots in protest of Trump in /epg/ during a discussion of anarchism. I didn't even support or oppose their position. But calling interracial marriage "a facet of white genocide" is fine. Does that seem right to you?

>>53356514
You can freely move skills around, so freeform still exists, it's just kind of hidden.