How would Fantasy Rome be the villains of a story?

>>53306097

If you were any of the civilizations they demolished, forcing you to live as a second-class citizen while true Fantasy-Romans exploit your natural resources and send your people to fight and die for the Glory of Rome.

By doing the same they did in our world.

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What have the Romans ever done for us?

>>53306097

Just run straight-up Rome, as historically accurate as possible.

>>53306097
You are Parthians. Or maybe they didn't promise your people citizenship and life will suck for you if they conquer your lands.

XIV has this covered

>Setting is low magic, with the people from the continent capable of using magic much more than most others
>Fantasy Romans can't use magic at all, must instead harness magic through technology
>The beast races of the setting has the innate ability to summon their gods using magic, gods are capable of incredible magic but their existence drains magic from the world around them
>In addition to wanting to conquer the continent for it's value, the fantasy Romans also wish to wipe out all the beast races out of fear of their gods
>The main races must attempt to balance dealing with the fantasy Romans and the beast races
>The terrible truth of the situation is that All of the races are just as capable of summoning their gods, not just the beastmen, even though basically everyone is unaware of this. Those who know must do their best to keep it a secret from everyone, because if the Romans find out, they'll switch from conquering to straight up ethnic cleansing of the entire continent

Play as a group of mercenaries from Carthage or something sailing around the Mediterranean Odessy/Iliad style

>>53306097
By having them act like Rome. Pretty easy to paint them as bad guys if you aren't them.

>>53306097
Just make them real Rome, but focus on what pop history doesn't focus. In general people today is way too individualistic and lack perspective to understand the benefits of civilization they brought to the places conquered. They'll rather cry about the death or enslavement of one, ten or a thousand individuals than see that the descendants of the survivors will be better this way.

>>53306457
That's absurd and has fuck all to do with romans. I don't fucking know what XIV is nor I want to, but you sound like your villains could be gauls, persians or chinese instead of romans and nothing would fucking change.

>>53306126
>>53306119
Pretty much this.
If you want them to be irredemably evil, just crank the brutally up and maybe through some evil magic in there.
>There are slaves then there are BLOOD slaves.

>>53306097
If you aren't able to make a military expansionist empire a vilains, what the fuck are you doing here?

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>>53306119
>>53306126
>>53306327
>>53307662
>>53307906
>>53307959
t. tax evading barbarians

>>53308044
Pre-Constanitine the Roman empire is pretty evil.

They literally killed Jesus.

>>53306097
Easily.

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>>53306097
>Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

>>53308080
But they literally washed their hands from the whole business.

>>53308132
It's weird considering how much Pilate loved pissing off the Jews

my initial response of "how can you not?" has already been covered pretty well in the thread, but maybe i can contribute a little.

play up the decadence of the actual citizens back in Rome. out in the wilds the Legions are relatively disciplined; at home it's all orgies, drugs, creepy sadistic religious rituals (turn the pagan pantheon into every wicked thing the Christians every said they could be). spoiled, narcissistic citizens crowding into arenas to watch slaves torture and murder each other or be eaten by beasts, while cheering and gambling on the outcome. rampant bribery of corrupt officials, every kind of dirty politics and then paying poets to deliver propaganda and cover it all up. rampant assassination by poisoning eventually devolves into unpopular leaders getting stabbed to death in full view of the Senate. open sewage pits and wild animals roaming the streets. anyone who complains about anything is executed for Treason; then the people who ordered the execution are themselves executed for Treason once their political enemies get into power.

honestly it's hard to invent anything more shitty than the shit they actually came up with themselves, aside from pumping up the Dark Gods and Rituals aspect.

Rome was kind of like Australia, originally populated by outcasts and criminals who had to kidnap and rape women from neighboring city-states to save their dwindling population. you can't overestimate what they did to shape history or the culture they built, but they were never angels.

>>53307755
Sure, when you lay out the story in the most general terms, but the big point is that the Romans represent a more organized empire with better technology, tactics and organization on a war of conquest against much smaller countries more individually powerful but less practiced groups of people who often have to take in secondaries of the groups they conquer to bolster their armies and spend quite a bit of time dealing with internal politicking.

>>53306097
The grinding conquests of Fantasy Rome never end. Every year, their Legions advance their borders a little bit more in your direction. You know they're coming, and their innumerable and disciplined Legions are unstoppable. The last time someone tried, and ambushed three in a forest, they were successful.

Until Fantasy Rome sent fifteen more the next year. And the year after. And the year after. That was twenty years ago, and the Sack of Arventium is still whispered about in taverns and mead-halls to this day, where the Legions glutted themselves on the blood of the people of that city. They killed every male over twelve, and enslaved every woman, girl, and child. They hacked their dogs and cats down. They pulled the city apart stone by stone, timber by timber. They scorched the earth around the place where the city had stood for three miles in every direction. They butchered their cattle and horses in the river, poisoning it for years to come.

This is the price of resistance against the Legions of Fantasy Rome. But if you accept their entreaties to let them be your overlords? If you accept their offers of client state status? They'll help you subjugate your ancestral enemies. They'll fill your nations coffers with untold wealth from trade and merchandise. They'll accept your sons as Legion auxiliaries. And those sons will send their sons into the Legions proper, to earn citizenship. Until all that's left of your civilization is the old men and women, who can still recall what life was like before the Romans came. Until finally, they pass away quietly, too scared to agitate resistance.

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"The year is 50 B.C. Gaul is entirely occupied by the Romans. Well, not entirely... One small village of indomitable Gauls still holds out against the invadors."

>>53306097
>>53308460
> represent a more organized empire with better technology, tactics and organization on a war of conquest against much smaller countries more individually powerful but less practiced groups of people who often have to take in secondaries of the groups they conquer to bolster their armies and spend quite a bit of time dealing with internal politicking.
That still covers the Persians and the Chinese.
Because it's literally just "empire stuff" in so many words. And "empire stuff" doesn't really define Rome for the savvy consumer. There were lots of 'em, gimme something that makes it "Rome but in X" not just "Empire in X"

>>53308614
Stat the magic potion /tg/

>>53308540
>their innumerable
Weren't they typically outnumbered?

>>53308614
>tfw you'll never fall in a caldron of strength potion as a child

>>53308648
I mean, the aesthetics, naming conventions, appearance, and general personality is what defines them as Roman specifically.

>>53308728
Locally, I want to say probably. But is "outnumbered" when they can raise another Legion and dispatch it to replace whatever is lost? Over and over?

See: Cannae. "We'll just annihilate eight consular armies," said Hannibal.

"Fuck you," said Rome. "We're going to mobilize the entire male populace, impress landless peasants and even slaves into the Legions, and burn Carthage to the ground."

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>>53308728
Does Obelix even have a weakness?

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>>53306119

>>53308837
Stupidity. Oh, and if he somehow drinks more of the potion he will be petrified.

>>53308200
The Jews have a history of chimping out over the most minor of transgressions to their hyper-autistic way of life, Pilate was desperate to make sure they didn't get Judeo-Roman Revolts Volume 2, Electric Boogaloo.

Jokes on him, they happened anyway, scarcely 60 years later.

>>53308648
>>53308789
Personally, I'd rather see an ERE vs. Sassanid Persia sort of scenario playing out in a Space Opera setting.

>>53308837
It's stated in one of the comic that the potion doesn't make you invulnerable, so technically you could kill him with ranged weapon.

>>53306097
Make PCs christian or jewish

>>53308200
His wife was an Oracle or some shit.
She basically came by and said "don't do this shit, there is something about him that seriously fucks my mojo, at the very least don't be the one responsible for it."
Hence he washed his hands of Jesus' blood and said that he is in no-way responsible for what he's about to do, his actions are that of another who has been ordered to do it.

>>53309036
>Hence he washed his hands of Jesus' blood and said that he is in no-way responsible for what he's about to do, his actions are that of another who has been ordered to do it.

I thought "washing your hands of the act" was another way to describe trying to make yourself not responsible for a crime or atrocity you are totally responsible for.

>>53308661
Grants plot armor. Is cancerogenic

>>53309073
He is still responsible because he could have prevent it. But "washing your hands of the act" it's like when you are a DM and you are fed up by your party bullshit so you let them do something stupid that get them all killed.

>>53308837
Being too cool.
It's a weakness I put on all my resumes.

>>53309026
It'd have to be a ballista or something, can you imagine how much HP he must have?

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>>53306097
They're the hyperfanatical conquering empire with an unbeatable war machine consisting of hyperfanatical citizens who believe they truly deserve to conquer others, brutally exploit their conquered enemies, enslave them, break up families, burn entire villages to the ground, worship their emperors as living gods and invented an execution method that was purely made to prolong the suffering of the executed for as long as possible. And let's not forget that they force prisoners to fight exotic and dangerous animals for sport. Making them villains isn't difficult.

>>53307683
Let's be honest, your rhetoric is this way because Rome won. Had Socialism become the world's dominant ideology, chances are you'd be excusing the gulags just as hard. But instead you condemn them, only becaus Socialism lost.

>>53309461
>Let's be honest, your rhetoric is this way because Rome won.

I "defend" them because I owe them all what I am. As you do, probably, unless you're some asian or something. Which is similar to what you said but not the same.

>>53309461
Dude, Socialism is understanding that Capitalism creates a social inequality and that providing relief for that social inequality is the duty of the state and the government. As such, steps should be taken to ensure that people are more equal than that.

You're probably talking about both the illogical extremes like National Socialism and Communism.

>>53308416
This sounds like Commonargh.

>>53309015
Sounds cool but I don't think it'll work. Ultimately the demise of those to groups were less sophisticated peoples. Even before their fall those peoples were a gigantic headache for both empires. But when you reach a certain level of technology savages stop being a threat.

>>53306097
Ermor at it's "about to fall" stage.

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>>53309527
>Dude, Socialism is understanding that Capitalism creates a social inequality
And yet around the world, the most economically free socities are also the most prosperous ones. Socialism, especially in its Marxist forms, relies on too much faith in the state, as it it is the infallible equalizer rather than an institution run by corrupt human beings who will abuse any power they're given. Socialism would work in a society where mankind is ruled by a literally angelic elite, but we're ruled by mere humans regardless of system or ideology.

>>53306097
Just play them straight?

Rome was a Lawful Evil society by D&D standards.

Tolkien orcs, as written, seem to be a parody of romans:
>short
>multitudinous
>good at warfare
>have their own sea
>fierce warriors with a lifetime of experience
>good at technology and mass production if they get their shit together
>really good at forced marching and marching in general
>violent
>led by some of the worst tyrants in the world
>seemingly always able to bounce back from a defeat
>their language is a twisted version of the language of civilizaton elvishgreek

>>53309678
Sadly, this is true.
I admit I truly despise capitalism and globalism due to how is does not inspire empathy the only way to ensure that socialism works properly would be by using a policing system of the politicians and government or utopia is achieved through the people on to suddenly growing a conscience.
Or, y'know the people recognizing that they have more say in society than what the people on top are telling them.

>>53309613
That's no surprise, since Commoragh is partially based on by Rome.

Gladiatorial slave pits, corrupt nobles with menagerie courts from all over the land, etc etc etc.

>>53308200
Pilate was in a shitty position. He didn't want t kill Jesus, and believed him innocent, but he knew if he didn't judge him then the Jews would riot and cause problems. So he went along with it anyway

>>53309678
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index

Truly, mixed market economies are the best for true prosperity.

Just about every country in the world is a mixed economy to one degree or another.

>>53309694
How the fuck is latin a twisted version of greek? Also one of the main traits of orcs is being undisciplined as fuck.

Most of what you said is basically more related to what >>53308648 said. Granted, Romans were THE Empire.

>>53309764
>Or, y'know the people recognizing that they have more say in society than what the people on top are telling them.
Personally I think that attaching (active) citizenship to military service goes a long way in creating a sort of 'common consience' and understanding of the place of the individual in the whole.

>>53309808
True, though many of the same countries that top the HDI list also top the ease of doing business rankings.
http://www.doingbusiness.org/rankings
A low barrier to entry in the market does require some state intervention, but only in as far as it prevents the forming of cartels and monopolies.

>>53309678
socialism doesn't require too much faith in the state. it requires too much faith in people. it's basically another take on platonic utopia, where people will willingly suffer for the greater good, where they will live like obedient automatons under control of the best possible form of government.
in comparison capitalism only assumes that people are greedy.
this is why socialism will never succeed.

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>>53306097
A friend of mine just wrote his dissertation on Greco-Roman relations from 190-140 BC.
Essentially the Greeks didn't really take the Romans seriously as a threat. They paid Rome lip service, which the Romans saw as bona fide submission. It even became a part of Greek rhetoric to appeal to Rome or act as if one had Roman support.
This caused problems when Greek states started doing things that Rome disapproved of, thinking Rome didn't really care.
Rome didn't really *want* to intervene, but they did because the Greeks weren't taking them seriously when the Romans told them to cut the shit.

Like in other situations, the Roman Republic practised a sort of "defensive" imperialism. They generally didn't set out to take over places, but often it turned out to be easier than dealing with all the dumb foreigners shitting about.

So essentially you set up Fantasy Rome as an Imperial Power that only really takes over places out of exasperation. Maybe stick a little Victorian-esque "Roman Man's burden" to make them a little more proactive. "No guys, stop killing each other. No seriously I swear if this war spills over my border I'm going to invade you so hard. Okay, make a reservation for 2 legions in your capital in a week."

>>53309901
That's also true. Like I said, the most prosperous countries in the world are largely mixed economies. Even the US of A.

>>53307755
Its Final Fantasy Fourteen. And the empire in question most resembles the early roman empire, in particular the way they deal with conquered territories in parts of the world that don't have oodles of magic lying around for god summoning.

Also their social structure and government is explicitly based on the early roman empire since it used to be a small republic in an out of the way place no one cared about until they started fucking shit up left right and centre.

>>53309678
Don't forget its also because that, due to the various impossiby complex mutlitude of economic factors that it is impossible for any centrally planned economy to be able to properly measure and allocate economic priority and resources to any and every industry as apropriate without forcing said planner to have to commit willing and knowing harm against at least several markets. Its impossible to be the perfect Socialist/Communist ruler/entity without being an unfeeling and amoral monster-automaton.

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>>53308614
>"The gods decide to help the village, if they can choose the right game system"

>>53308132
Scourging and crucifying doesn't have much washing of hands, except of the blood.

>>53306097
The protagonist isn't a Roman, the Romans want to conquer/have already conquered or occupy the protagonists homeland, blam antagonist.

If you want to make a morally black villain you just need to kill yourself.

>>53309678
Are you seriously pretending that pure capitalism is the best route? Because that's how you get shit like the Great Depression. People starved because they couldn't afford food. Hell, people are still starving because of the price of food. The all-mighty dollar is the worst thing to happen to the world.

invisible hand will decide who lives and who dies
it's the most objective system there ever will be

>>53310171
Capitalism by itself has no moral values. When coupled with the state it produces corporatism, lobbying and monopolies. Libertarianism and its extreme of anarcho-capitalism are the only valid solutions.

>>53310171
> Hell, people are still starving because of the price of food.
despite food being the cheapest it has been in ages thanks to almost all of it being subsidized under the Food Securities Act, which in turn is forcing family farmers out of business due to not making enough money to meet the inflated demand, and so they have to fold over and sell to govt. supported agricultural businesses?

>Great Depression
caused by a combination of rampant overspeculation of the stock market by people who had no idea wat they were doing, combined with over-use of the installment/credit system of spending and banks not limiting their own spendnig and rates. Further need I also remind you that, despite all the work the FDR did in alleviated the problem, that didn't stop another depression from hitting again into the end of the thirties before the US got into WWII

>>53310289
>anarcho-capitalism
I see someone never graduated from college or actually took a damned economics course

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>>53310289
This better be bait anon.

>>53310066
Mythras/RQ6E

>>53310330
>caused by a combination of rampant overspeculation of the stock market by people who had no idea wat they were doing, combined with over-use of the installment/credit system of spending and banks not limiting their own spendnig and rates.
Market is supposed to magically rid itself of incompetence, isn't it?

>>53310330
>>53310361
>this is what keynesists actually believe

>>53310370
>Market is supposed to magically rid itself of incompetence, isn't it?
It does, if you're alright with it failing a few times.

>>53310461
Well, getting rid of people on a mass scale is what is bad about communism - I don't see how hordes of starving people after market failing is better.

>>53310507
In theory it just fails, that particular way, once.
Communism failed, or intentianaly-ed, a lot more than once.

>>53310370
It will, but just like an ecosystem, it takes both time and a willingess to let people fail on its own. Plus unfortunately te early stockmarket was very much like the real estate market, in that it has a pretty damn heavy turnover rate in regards to punishing people who fail in it.

Really, an economy, especially a "free-ish" market is essentially an abstracted ecosystem. They behave much the same wa, repond similarly to niche competition, as well in terms of population/market mortality and changes in accessory systems and factors.

Ecosystems work best when not being fucked over by over-extensive human interference (though a little can be helpful, such as with the NA Fire Regime) and "correction", and the same can be said of Economies.

Granted though, ancaps are delusional fools as they forget that the key feature of any viable economy/market is the presence of an Institute which makes and enforces the rules of trade. In an Ecosystem the institute can be seen as either the Climate, or more expansively, the basic laws of thermodynamics and conservation. However, since Economies are abtracted from Ecosystems, they require that we implement that Institute ourselves in order to lay the basic foundation for the rules of trade. And since anything that humans make is doomed to be imperfect and potentially corruptible, it is important to insure said Institute is just strong enough to perform its primary function, yet weak and disconnected enough from executive/federal influence so that any issue and corruption that does occur can be dealt with and minimized in a somewhat efficient manner

>>53310507
Hold a minute, will get to that, reached character limit on post

>>53310507
>Well, getting rid of people on a mass scale is what is bad about communism
It's soviet ideology. Gulags weren't extermination camps, they were re-education camps to create the perfect Soviet Man. It's just that a lot of people died there, but they were just dissidents amirite?

>I don't see how hordes of starving people after market failing is better.
Because market failure is inherrent to the system, much like failing crops. Kind of like how you can't dismiss modern medicine because people still die of cancer by the millions. Capitalism isn't perfect, but no system is perfect because we're talking about economies consisting of imperfect actors. This is also the problem with the Chicago school of economics: it assumes consumers always act rationally when they demonstrably do not.

>>53308080
>implying that little shit didn't have it coming

Emperor Tiberius had it right

>>53310620
Till he went all Obi-Wan on the empire.

>>53310590
>It's soviet ideology
Revolutionary legal consciousness is fucking awful.

>Because market failure is inherrent to the system, much like failing crops.
So it's better because there's nobody to pin the blame on?

>>53310507
>>53310575
The difference is that, in a free market its much easier for the market to bounce back with a replacement, and the presence of competing firms ensures there will always be options and alternate niches to fulfill those deficiencies. Further in such a situation there is no particular entity responsible for such a loss, as it is generally caused by the collective of both consumers and producers, meaning the culpability belongs to no one in particular.

In communism, such mas die offs and failures are the direct responsibility and cause of the central economic planning agency, and are often wilfully chosen in order to favor one sector of the nation over the other. Further, since in such a system business competition and niche partitioning is basically nil and must yield to the whims of the central planner, that means that should that particular arm of the economy fail, there there exists no alternatives for the people to pursue after it fails

Going back to the ecological analogy, if the Free-ish market is a wilderness ecosystem, then the socialist/communist system is a farm. The use and productivity of that system in almost completely reliant on a central entity, who can make any and all rules he wants even if they would destroy his own land in the long run (much like what happened in the dustbowl and other similar instances), and should the farm or even a particular crop fail, then really that's it for that patch and often one of the only ways to reclaim the health of said property is to let it go fallow and return to its original state (removing the FarmSocialism with the EcosystemFree-ishMarket)

>>53310666
>So it's better because there's nobody to pin the blame on?
People will starve either way.
People starve less in capitalist societies as opposed to communist ones. How is this hard to grasp?

Are commie trolls leaking from /pol/?

>>53310666
>So it's better because there's nobody to pin the blame on?
That and a free-ish market will often not only be able to quickly respond o fill in the void, but can also have competing industries and froms to ensure that even with the loss of one entity that the market will still survive and provide services.

>>53310688
there's a lot of commies on 4chan. remember all those 8values threads?

>>53308200
If I'm not mistaken, the whole affair was Pilate trying to piss off the Jews. According to some, he bargained for Jesus' life not because he cared about what was going on, but because he wanted to cause the Jewish priesthood as much trouble as possible (telling them to judge Jesus by their own laws, telling them to take it to Herod or trying to get him released instead of Barrabas, simply to annoy the Pharisees and rob them of the "legitimacy" of a Roman execution).

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>>53310688
>trolls leaking from /pol/?
Oh no something that happens all the time here on /tg/.
>>53310423
haha you are good at bait I'll give you that

>>53306097
>How would Fantasy Rome be the villains of a story?

Same way any historical military power is villainized, simply apply the moral standards of your own time and place to their culture and actions and utterly ignore the historical context of those

That is how you transform
>founders of western civilization
into
>m-muh bloodthirsty slavery imperialists REEEEEEE

It's easy, and you can do it to literally anyone in history.

>>53311635
Can't do it to the Inuit and the associated tribes.

>>53308080
That was the jews and you know it.

>>53311848
>Same way any historical military power
Inuit, to my knowledge, were never a military power.

>>53309908
Pure capitalism also assumes that all participants in the market will always have perfect information and act purely out of logical, material self-interest. And even then it ignores issues like externalities.

And that is why pure capitalism will also never succeed and mixed-market systems are the way to go.

>>53310289
>anarcho-capitalism

Aka corporate dictatorship. An unregulated market is nothing more than a guaranteed oligopoly or even monopoly. Anarchy is nothing more than a power vacuum,and nature abhors any vacuum.

>>53311942
>It's easy, and you can do it to literally anyone in history.
>literally anyone

>>53311848
The Dorset Culture would disagree, except they are all dead.

>>53310544
>In theory it just fails, that particular way, once.

That theory must assume that all people will perfectly learn from any prior mistakes. If people were that perfect, communism would work just as well.

>>53310741
Basically, he was faced with a new seto of crazies who were pissing of the mainstream of the crazies who wanted him to whack the new sect leader. If he judges the guy innocent, the mainstream assholes will riot. If he judges the guy guilty, his new followers will riot. So in the end Pilate just gave everyone the finger and told them to sort their shit out themselves.

>>53311635
>founders of western civilization
>into
>m-muh bloodthirsty slavery imperialists REEEEEEE

Those things aren't mutually exclusive.

>>53309678
>And yet around the world, the most economically free socities are also the most prosperous ones.
"Economically free" has nothing to do with being some national ancapistan.
Going that way results in shit like the free economic zones in Honduras, where people take care of muh roads by literally filling potholes with dirt and then asking for tips from drivers using them, and pizza places have armed guards.
As anon said, mixed econs are the best.

I know fuck-all about Rome. Where would power consolidate after the death of an emperor?

>>53312011
Give it a few years. I'm sure we'll be able to talk about how the brutal savage Inuit murdered defenseless majestic whales, and even more defenseless seals, driven mad with rape lust by their diet of uncooked blubber.

>>53312321
The Senate, or more likely the guy who had the emperor killed.

>>53312353
>or more likely the guy who had the emperor killed.
What if they were a foreigner? Did Rome operate on "You kill it you inherit it"?

>>53310423
>he confuses anarcho-capitalism with anarcho-socialism
whew

Oh yeah.
Just remember i read some article on how italians viewed Moldova and Wallachia in the Middle Ages.
Basically one of them goes "they murder their own rulers really often, the entire gov is corrupt, they speak shitty latin, and they argue like crazy instead of getting shit done. They truly are descended from the romans"

>>53312385
Historically, it was rare for a foreigner to kill the Emperor. It was more people waiting unti they thought they had the political or military clout to off the emperor, and hold on to the empire.

If there were multiple strong contenders, you could expect a civil war.

Rome was sacked by foreigners, but as far as I know no one ever tried to stay and rule it.

>>53312385
No I think hes referencing to all the internal assassinations that happend to the emperors. I remember that one empreor (it was either caligula or cladius) was assassinated by his praetorian guards and they installed the next emperor.

>>53312385
No, fucking no. What the fuck.

>>53312321
On the new emperor, designated by the previous. Ideally.

>>53312353
The senate stopped being relevant by the time Rome got emperors. Also most usurpers didn't last long, it wasn't approeved by public opinion to reach power by violence despite how many emperors did it.

>>53312488
>it was either caligula or cladius

That would be Caligula, with the Praetorians then supposedly dragging Claudius out from behind a drape to be made emperor against his will.

Later on the praetorians assassinated it's own emperors like clockwork, sometimes killing one on the promise of increased pay then killing the new guy when he couldn't cough up the cash.

As an institution the Praetorian Guard was tremendously shitty at it's job as bodyguards, being far more interested and effective at serving itself than either the emperor or the empire. It's really hard to think of a better example of who not to have protecting you.

>>53312801
It's not like they're the only historical force that set up and dispatched rulers at will, like at all.

>>53306097

>Oh so the Vasingalli beat us in the field where they butchered close to 40 000 of our soldiers. Let's send a fresh army composed of citizen legionaries, non-citizen auxillaries and allies. Around 50 000 men will do. If they die make the next army contain 60 000.

The most frightening thing about the military capacity of the Roman State was it seemingly limitless military man pool. When this was combined with the roman complete refusion of accepting defeat they became a true monster to any foe. Any other power in the mediterranean would simply have accepted defeat in a conflict if they lost and army or two and entered into peace talks. Rome on the other had didn't settle for anything but the surrender of their foe. Ever heard of the term Pyrrhic victory? The term means a victory that is so costly to the victor that it might just aswell have been a defeat. It's derived from the Epirote King Pyrrhus who invaded italy in the hopes of playing Alexander the Great in the West. The romans managed to repell him from their peninsula by throwing armies at him untill his own was so depleted that it couldn't sustain a campaign any longer.
During the first punic war the roman navy at one time lost close to 100 000 men in a storm. They responded to this by raising a new navy.

Basically the roman military machine was a never ending tide of extremely well drilled and disciplined soldiers who gladly adopted any equipment that would get them an advantage.

The leadership of the roman republican armies are however extremely interesting. The low ranking officials were people who had risen to their station through merit while the top ranks were composed of politicians who used their military position as a tool to gain political power. This however also meant that some ambitious leaders based their military decisions not on what was best for the campaign but what would be best for his political career.

>>53314278
Life's GM got wise to Rome's cheating by the Dominate though

>GM: Say Rome, where do you keep getting all these armies from? Especially seeing as you've had a bunch of plague events recently
>Rome: Uhhhhhhhhhhhh... Foederati?
>GM: That's just great Rome, I was hoping you'd say that...

>>53314278
Also, the romans thought it prudent that their soldiers should fear their own officers more than the enemy. Thusly the roman army was extremely strict and had alot of corporal punishment. The severest of these, called decimation, was extremly sparingly used as it was concidered extremly harsh, even for roman standards. It consisted of every punished sub-unit of ten men having to draw lots where the one loser would be beaten to death by his comrades. As this wasn't enough by itself it is worth pointing out that people served and lived together for decades in these sub-units and were thus extremely close to each other.

>>53314430
Kek.
Allthough to be fair the foederati served the roman state generally well. If anything it was the ludicrous and ever increasing donatives to the armies that really started the whole "the army is the greatest threat to the stability of the state" that the roman empire had going. Foreign troops also provided the state with much needed population boons.

>>53306097
>How would Fantasy Rome be the villains of a story?
on its own Rome was just another empire with huge manpower pool focused on conquest - to make them more interesting you should make them undead lead by a cabal of dragon worshiping vampires and add this >>53308540

maybe even make the undead semi-conscious but unable to act against the will of their masters

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>>53314476
I remember that from NV where lanius apparently loved that punishment.

>>53308540
>Until Fantasy Rome sent fifteen more the next year. And the year after. And the year after. That was twenty years ago, and the Sack of Arventium is still whispered about in taverns and mead-halls to this day, where the Legions glutted themselves on the blood of the people of that city. They killed every male over twelve, and enslaved every woman, girl, and child. They hacked their dogs and cats down. They pulled the city apart stone by stone, timber by timber. They scorched the earth around the place where the city had stood for three miles in every direction. They butchered their cattle and horses in the river, poisoning it for years to come.

You know that the Battle of Teutoberg Forrest made the empire so afraid of Germans that they never expanded beyond the Rhine, right?

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>>53316161
I know ;_;

>all these anons talking about the hyper expansionist late Republic and early Empire
>no mention of the romans for the 3-400s
>scheming corrupt liars among the nobility slowly destroying the empire from within
>hiring barbarian mercenaries before betraying them
>assassinating emperors good and bad alike
>roman citizens are turning on their germanic citizens
>religious intolerance to pagans and heretics alike
>assassinating competent and loyal generals trying to stop the madness
>promotions for disloyal and ineffective generals because they can kiss ass
>crops are failing because of climate change
>plagues are spreading because the sanitation systems are underfunded to support the military
>armies are declaring new emperors left and right

It was like Mad Max. No one knew what was going on and everyone was just trying to get out of the cities.

>>53308984
Nah, he got his wish, he wasn't there when it kicked off.

>>53309951
>Like in other situations, the Roman Republic practised a sort of "defensive" imperialism. They generally didn't set out to take over places, but often it turned out to be easier than dealing with all the dumb foreigners shitting about.
Not exactly. The Romans liked portraying themselves as exactly that, even to themselves. Understandably, they liked to think of themselves as the good guys. And so they'd trump up plausible reasoning for war. Now, I'm not saying that the Romans didn't sometimes do exactly as you describe, but if we look at what is probably the best example of this, Caesar's conquest of Gaul, we see the Romans getting involved originally at the behest of some Gallic tribes, but then using that as an excuse to go on and conquer all of Gaul.

>>53311877
Adolf pls.

>>53306212
aqueducts?

>>53306212
They gave us another shitty Saber clone.

>>53316161
However, it wasn't the last time the romans had plans on annexing parts of germania.
Marcus Aurelius was the last emperor to realistically consider such a thing after the Marcomannic War was won.

Also, the thing about germania back in those day was that it lacked any resources besides and ample supply of warriors, which the roman state managed to get a hold of through foederati.
The cost was basically too large for too little gain to ever really annex germania in any lasting sense.

>>53306097
I think the question is more "how would Fantasy Rome NOT be the villains of a story?"

>>53316895
That's because that's the default for alot of empires that have reached their zenit.

However the idea of making a once noble fantasy empire that have been completely Shanghai'd by their military would make for an interesting and not commonly used not!Rome.

>>53317137
>t. every state that have ever existed.

>>53320144
Not really. Many if not most ancient entities would proudly claim their true intentions- conquest or pillaging.

>>53320178
>What is a casus belli.
Also entity =/= state. Roaming tribes of barbarians worked on different premises.

>>53320826
>Roaming tribes of barbarians worked on different premises
Are you saying Gauls were roaming tribes of barbarians?

>>53320826
You really don't need a better casus belli than "I want your shit". The Romans had an obsession with legalism that led them to desire to always be perceived as in the right, for their definition of it. They'd go to ridiculous lengths to garner appropriate excuses. Most entities, including "civilized" entities (as if "barbarian tribes" aren't civilized), were just happy with dispensing with the bullshit.

>>53320826
Celts didnt roam about my man. They had cities when Rome was still new.

>>53320923
I wouldn't say that it's exactly true that they didn't roam. Most Celtic peoples settled permanently, but many left their homes for whatever reason and ended up migrating vast distances. Hence why there's a Gaul, a Galicia in Iberia, and a Galatia in Anatolia.

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>>53309026

Nice try.

>>53320888
The Romans busted a nut when the opportunity to invade Greece as a "liberation war" presented itself.

>>53306119
>implying they were worth calling "civilizations" before Rome came through

>>53306119
First post best post.

S P Q R INVICTUS

MARS
EXULTE

MARS
EXULTE

MARS
EXULTE

>>53307959
As an empire they weren't really that expansionist. The republic was the period when all the expansion happened, and it was often through agreements with other cities. It was by no means perfect, and the worst emperors did some fucked up shit, but it was lawful and to a lesser extent good more often than it was evil. The cultures that were lost were either incorporated into roman culture or just savage by most civilized standards. The idea that Europeans can't be savages is just unsupported by reality: most of them were savages before Rome. What would Europe have become without Rome?

>>53316895
that's what Renaissance Italian setting is for

>>53321203
maybe bolt instead of rock?

>>53308080
>They literally killed Jesus.
He had it coming.

>>53316161
>You know that the Battle of Teutoberg Forrest made the empire so afraid of Germans that they never expanded beyond the Rhine, right?
You do know the Romans went on a several decade murder rampage afterwards to avenge the three legions, right?
"Afraid" isn't really the word I'd use.

>>53322437
Regardless of how much of a murder rampage they went on, they never settled or conquered those lands, just raided them.

>>53322456
Because they came to the conclusion that it wasn't fucking worth it, since there was insufficient infrastructure and ressources, unlike places like Gaul or Britain, not because they were afraid of the Germans.

>>53306119>>53306126
>>53306327
>>53307662


>second class
>what is edict of Carcalla
>what is gaining citizernship via military service to the empire

>>53322514
You know what it's called when you declare you aren't even in interested in something after spending lots of resources, time and dedication to acquire it?

>>53308614
My first thought.

>>53322584
Weighing your options?

>>53322671
Being salty

>>53320080
By being a Patrician/family of a retired soldier and watching the barbarian hordes pillage your land for things they don't have.

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>>53308044

>>53308661
Isn't basically a potion of Bull Strength?
In some instances Asterix stops Obelix from attacking Romans (the Praetorian guard in particular), because they are not barely trained conscripts like their home legionnaires and the potion apparently does not grant them any immunity.

>>53321203
He made the effort to catch it.
If you were hit by a basketball in the head, it would hurt, unlike if you attempted to catch it.
Obelix is a special case as he overdosed on the potion and the effects are never waning, when for most people it only lasts a few hours.

>>53322574
>what is edict of Carcalla

A document generated relatively late in Rome's history and with dubious impact on how practical relations between born Romans and citizens of conquered stock were treated?

>>53322768
Which is a far cry off being scared of a bunch of rednecks.

>>53323123
Not that far, considering your pwecios little greek-loving savages aren't supposed to even aknowledge any difficulties in subjugating them rednecks.

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>>53306097
>Carthago delenda est!

Try being Fantasy Carthaginian.

>>53323217
WHat are you even talking about?

>>53309901
The only real problem with requiring military service for full citizenship is that any first world country will neither need nor be able to support such a vast amount of soldiers, so most people would never get to be citizens, and the weak/disabled wouldn' even have an opportunity.

Still better than what we've got now, though.

>>53306097
Conquering militaristic empires are kind of a Villain Staple in ALL forms of fiction.

This ones easy. You just need to make the characters some godless barbarians and the empire needs to cone in and try to c civilize the sods.

I had an idea i've been toying with for an "Immortal Empire", a roman empire where necromancy is used as a kind of daily Ancestor Worship/labor force. Nobles and Senators are mostly Wisened Vampires and Skeletons. The Emperor is a Lich and they hold daily Coliseum based blood sports to keep the citizens amused while captured outsiders are forced to fight monsters and solve puzzles for their freedom. Maybe the PC's get caught by Skeleton Soldiers or slavers and tossed into the arena? Fight through shifting mazes and the occasional ship battle in a flooded arena.

So, end of EA Ermor?

>>53306097
Depends. Roman Empire or Roman Republic?

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>>53306097
>The Errant Consul
A famed Consul decides that since he controls more than half the legions of notRome, maybe he doesn't want to relinquish power. Maybe he wants to keep it. Maybe he should have all of it. A Civil war brews between the Rebelling Consul and the Senate as both sides press gang whole swathes of able bodies men into the legion, citizen, auxiliary or otherwise. You either stand with one or the other. Any 'neutral' party is seen as an enemy and burned to prevent the 'other side' from using them. Choose a side, or resist the tide of notRoman expansion.

>An Absent Emperor
The Empire burns. Without clear leadership, generals form their own kingdoms, their personal legions their own private army. Towns and cities suffer under unfair oppression and persecution as the Empire is carved up. What does the Emperor do? Nothing. He is content to sit in his private villa, enjoying all that life has to offer for the most powerful man in the world, not concerning himself with the problems of the lesser people. Any who protest his inaction quickly find themselves in the next Arena match without a weapon. It is time to take action.

>The Errant Auxiliary
Barbarians, trained in the ways of notRoman warfare, have seceded from their legions to form the most organized, and terrifying army of marauders in the known world. The Empire will not intervene as their actions raid territory outside the Empire. When they raze your town, brutalize your family, and leave you for dead, they do nothing. Revenge can make even the most lethal injuries seem trifling.

>>53326912
Ideas for Auxiliary if the setting has nonhumans:

Minotaur: To the common races, the minotaur was a horror story to frighten children. Go to bed or the minotaur will come eat you. Eat your vegetables or the minotaur will take you away. They were a bane to civilized races for their raids to devour men and steal women. For Romans, it was a tale of heroism. When Rome first came, they landed in the middle of minotaur territory and every legion wanted a minotaur head adorning their banner. Thus began a decade long war that slowly gave way to Roman dominance across all of minotaur land. The wild savagery initially proved to Romans they were fit for nothing more than hunting or the simplest of jobs in the mining pits. However a few of the more clever veterans of the Minotaur War had secreted away hundreds of minotaur children as their parents were dragged off in chains. Under the tutelage of his friends in Rome, he would ensure they would be far more than just wild barbarians.

Under their guidance, these children were taught Latin, their history according to Rome(they were children of the gods just as humans were) and their duty to spread Roman culture to every corner of the globe. In just a couple of years, the half dozen schola that accepted these children were churning out minotaurs loyal to Rome. The Minotauri Auxillia would become the most efficient shock troops of the legions and their appetites in war would ensure a steady stream of minotaur children flowing into the Minotauri Schola.

>>53321277

Greece or Egypt seemed civilized enought to me even before

>>53326951
Elf: For an elf, life is boredom. The tedium of the inter-house struggles would become something done almost in a trance. Wake, train, write poetry for your house, debate for your house, fight for your house, sing for your house, eat dinner with your house, bed. Again and again for hundreds of years, with little to break the monotony. Humans have managed to break the cycle a few times but they were primitive and uninteresting for the most part. Then the Romans came.
Quickly the human tribes were subjugated and integrated into this thriving civilization that showed no signs of stopping, and showed little regard for the pomp and circumstance of the elven house wars. It was outrageous, shocking, insulting, and fun. Romans found the Aurem Acuta to be fascinating with their art and culture, while the elves thought the same of Romans. Trade flourished between the two races. No more did an elf have to pray for a war with the orcs to get some good Orcish pottery, it could be made by Orc slaves in Rome. No more would they have to satisfy their secrete cravings for dwarf beer and deal with the smug hairy bastards, the secret was safe with Rome.
Even elven exiles that broke away from the elven hierarchy found Rome interesting. A handful even got into the fascinating drama of Roman politics. Even today, the best politicians in the Senate are elves. Centuries of experience allow them to outtalk most senators, and their senses allow them to outmaneuver even the craftiest of assassins. The Aurem Acuta Socii make some of the best scouts of the legions, rising quickly through the ranks as their fighting skill and quick response to commands make them highly valued soldiers. If anything, Elves adapt to Roman life better than Romans.

>>53326962
Dwarf: The first, and perhaps only military ally of humans, the dwarf kingdoms quickly and informally formed an alliance with Rome. One man kingdom looked the same as every other to the dwarfs, they didn’t care. As expected, the Romans would call for aid when the orc hordes moved in from the south, and the dwarfs responded as usual by sending a few new recruits to get some experience fighting the greenskins on the surface before going back home. Their minds changed quickly when the regiments returned with human armies in tow. This has happened in the past, but most human kingdoms would send a token force as a gesture that helped little in the dwarf wars. These armies were disciplined, organized, and broke the orc lines in months. Afterwards, the dwarf kingdoms started to pay much closer attention to Rome.
Trade between the two become a boon to both sides. The Romans receive armor and weapons their workshops cannot hope to match, and dwarfs get access to illicit elven cuisine without going to those uppity bastards. Relations continue to grow between the two as military exchanges happen regularly. Young dwarfs or dwarfs looking to keep their fighting skills sharp for pay, join the Socii Pumillo Extrodinarii, while new Roman recruits cut their teeth on the ever present threat of orcs, goblins and other creatures the dwarfs constantly face in the darkest layers of their kingdom. Relations look bright between man and dwarf. So long as dwarfs never actually learn what Pumillo means…

>>53326982
Orc: Orcs have been raiding the lands of humans, dwarfs, elves, and even their own since time immemorial. Rome’s sudden appearance meant nothing to them. Just another target to their raids. Their first attack against a legion was mixed. While they made away with many weapons and slaves, they lost way too many. The clans realized this foe would require a larger force than just a simple raiding warband, but not much was thought of it. Until the first Roman legions invaded their land, killing, burning, and dragging survivors to Rome in chains.
The roving tribes banded together to combat the Roman menace and convened in what would be known as the Meet: the traditional battlefield where warring tribes settle their grudges in open warfare until one surrenders or is slain down to the last. Over a hundred thousand orcs met on that field against the legions of General Gnaeus Valerius Maxillus, his dwarven allies, and a regiment of the Minotauri Extrodinarii. The orcs crashed against his forces but could not break his lines. As the dwarves and Minotari pushed forward, they formed a crescent that trapped the orc army as the cavalry closed the path behind them. After this, the orcs were broken and scattered, the surviving clans submitting to Roman rule, and the southern tribelands became a Roman province.
Today, most orcs serve Rome now in the legions called the Viridi Maxilla, but there are a few stubborn tribes that survive on the edges, harassing roman merchants and isolated patrols whenever they can. But with their own people hunting them it is only a matter of time before they are subjugated, or put down.

>>53306097
Oh easy.
>"Ave Smupledupe the emperor of [insert fantasy rome name here]"
>"We're here to take your shit and make you slaves, we kinda need them."
>que plot where your shit is taken and the players who rebelled turn terrorist or they fight in a campaign to stop the evil empire from taking their shit.

>>53326951

This is a sweet idea, that could be also used for any multiracial empire

>personally I find kinda boring to have the elf kingdom, the dorf kingdom etc.everytime

If I may: a little more focus on the actual military value. Minotaurs might be shock troops. Of course the dwarves are the engineering part of the army.

>centaurs
Surprinsgly enough they aren't used as cavalry, at least not in the usual sense. Even with full plate it's very hard not to get killed, for a charging centaur against a full line of enemies.
They're "mounted" archers with superior quality, and explorers.

>mermaids/tritons
Saboteurs in naval battles. Actually, in recent times they've been tried in logistical roles: if you can haul something underwater, the enemy will not find it.

>treant
An interesting deal has been made in some limes regions with them. Basically, they've been garaunteed something akin to a national park with little or no woodcutting, in exchange for a role as intelligence and first defense against barbarians.

>kobolds
You didn't think not!Rome didn't fight in the dungeons, right?
To be fair it's more like an esperimental alliance, but the kobolds are quick becoming a good way to secure things like the Cloaca Maxima

>>53306097
The PC's are fantasy Germans, or fantasy Persians.

>>53306097
Have them be Fantasy Rome.

Fantasy Rome are the villains whether they're your ally, enemy or home.

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>>53325206
You might want to take a look at the Dominions series of video games.

Ermor is a heavily roman-inspired civilization, that slowly gets overtaken and undermined by a death cult and in the later stages has lich senators commanding undead legions.

>>53316161
You mean the battle that led to Germanicus showing up and kicking Arminus's ass when the Romans came back as they always did?

If you claim that Teutoburg stopped the Romans, you can claim that literally any Roman loss was what stopped them expanding along said front.

>>53308080
>They literally killed Jesus
You mean Israel.

>>53320847
Depends, the migrating ones where definitately.

>>53323300
>Try being Fantasy Carthaginian
>Throws screaming baby in fire
I'm the good guy, I swear.

>>53320923

What >>53320977 wrote.

The celtic people were a sedentary society from which tribes or confederations now and again felt the need (for whatever reason, be it liebensraum or whatever) to migrate into and conquer new territories. The most well known examples of this would be the settling of the Po Valley and the Celtic invasion of the greek world which ended in parts of anatolia becoming ruled by celts.

>>53326958
>Greece
In a state of non-stop civil war between city-states.

>Egypt
As if these guys hadn't been getting conquered by every asshole who walked into their territory for the thousand years prior.

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>>53308044
>Romans
>in charge of not being a barbarian empire of superstitious, religious fundamentalist headunters who could not into science so hard they set us back a milennium

>>53328808
>be Cartaghe
>be so jewish that the Jews write fanfics about how hard they destroyed your cities and genocided your people a couple of hundreds of years ago

Feels good man.

>>53322456
Because it was too much effort for too little gain. All that germania had to offer was soldiers which the army got their hands on through the usage of foederati troops. Besides, the romans kicked the shit out of the germans on numerous occasions after the Teutoberg Forest-disaster. Conquering a region is not always wanted or needed and can in fact be counter-productive to the safety of the state.

>>53322584
Your argument is based on premise that is wrong. The roman interest in Germania lay in controlling the germanic peoples and not the occupation of their terrain. This was something that the romans managed to do extremely well considering the enormous time span they managed to keep the germans away from actually accomplishing any serious, potential death-blows to the state. Yes, germanic peoples managed on several occassion to invade the empire (see such things as Defence-in-depth) but they never managed to destroy the empire from without.

>>53328874
Fuck Greece, think the Hellenic Great Powers.

>>53328874
>In a state of non-stop civil war between city-states.
confirmed ignoramus

City-states only fought ONCE a year for an hour during summer. They couldn't fight in any other day due to the incredibly heavy armor they used, and because they needed to work the farms. The bronze armor they used was so heavy that any War Campaign longer than a single day would exhaust every soldier into a comma. Also they used leather inside their armor, and in rain they would literally die of hypothermia if they wore it for too long.

Plus, the city states battles (there was no conventional war), were agreements between city states. They would settle the day, the area (always with silk smooth ground and no obstacles in between, otherwise the phalanx would collapse), and just fought it out in a single clash of phalanxes. As soon as one side was confirmed winner the slaughter stopped and they all went home.

Just kill yourself my nigger.

>>53308080
And? The Pharisees were right. He got exactly what he asked for.

>>53309461
>only becaus Socialism lost.
But socialism won...

>>53306097
Really? How would Rome not be the villain of any story?

Here is a better question than OPs. When is the last time anyone has portrayed Romans as the good guys?

>>53327655
>slowly gets overtaken and undermined by a death cult
Half the Empire outright died in the necromantic ritual that was supposed to bring their prophet back to life. The Scelerian death cult are actually 'good guys' compared to the current Ermorian legions.

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>>53329269
>socialism
Unless you're in Cuba, you don't get to say it won.

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>>53326994
Gnoll: As Rome expanded westward, they encountered the gnolls. Just as bad as orcs, if not worse, they struck fast, killing many, then disappearing into the dense forests. Their greatest triumph was the destruction of an entire legion at the hands of an ambush. From the few survivors, thousands of gnolls descended on the unprepared legion as it marched, slaughtering dozens of confused soldiers, laughing all the time. In retaliation, Rome raised another legion to avenge the lost. The forests that hid their villages and encampments were cleared away slowly but surely, and the Lascivus Canis were forced to meet the legions of Rome on open ground, where their siege engines tore the gnolls apart.
Western expansion has grinded to a slow crawl, but Rome remains determined to expand its borders. Though gnoll villages hold little of value for looting soldiers, the gnolls themselves are a sturdy stock highly valued in the slave pits. More often legionnaires try to capture gnolls alive as their price practically guarantees enough money for them to buy several acres of land.

>>53329737
google backdoor communism. Once the socialists took over every major university in every corner of the world, the soviet union "fell". Because by that moment it was no longer necessary to exist. They had already won in America(north and south), and Europe.

Japan and some middle east countries are the only non-socialist country left on the planet.

>>53330128
Kek

>>53330128
It became a 'fashionable' ideology, an exotic animal to be gawked at rather than an actual threat now.

>>53322870
The great thing about your post is that, Romans raided and pillaged other lands for things they didn't had.
Barbarian is trully a matter of what side you are on.

>>53308614

I'm afraid that I'm unfamiliar with this particular story. Care to elaborate?

I haven't read the Malazan books but i think the Malazan Empire is based on the romans.

>>53306097

>to plunder, pillage, slaughter, they give the lying name of empire. They make a desert and call it peace.

How can they NOT be the villains?

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>>53329097
>City-states only fought ONCE a year for an hour during summer. They couldn't fight in any other day due to the incredibly heavy armor they used

Can't tell if high or retarded.

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>>53330128
>once socialists took over
I thought they were called 'hippies' and 'took over' meant 'squatting'.

>Because by that moment it was no longer necessary to exist. They had already won in America(north and south), and Europe.

I'm sure it had nothing to do with their shittastic infrastructure falling apart.

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>>53329097
>City-states only fought ONCE a year for an hour during summer. They couldn't fight in any other day due to the incredibly heavy armor they used, and because they needed to work the farms. The bronze armor they used was so heavy that any War Campaign longer than a single day would exhaust every soldier into a comma. Also they used leather inside their armor, and in rain they would literally die of hypothermia if they wore it for too long.
I cannot even begin to explain how you don't know anything about any of the subjects you touched on in this paragraph. Suffice it to say this is entirely wrong.

Yes, campaigns were fought in summer. Because spring was when you planted and fall when you harvested and winter when you died of diphtheria or consumption.

Most of the time the fighting took place in the early morning after dawn until high sun, when everyone retired for a meal and to avoid the heat of the day. For most of the phalanx this meant they had to fight for about an hour a day (ideally), although most of them stood in the formation for the entire 3-ish hours. If it rained, they might simply not take the field at all. After all, it would be muddy, and sandals and mud don't mix.

Why do I know this? Because it is literally how the Afghans still fight. Village elders used to get all butthurt about Americans showing up and shooting people after the midday meal. And at night? Oh man, the bitching.

>>53306457

So, Final Fantasy 6?

>>53331109
It isn't

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RDF Get out REEEEEEEEEEE
[Germanic Noises]

>>53333131
>[Germanic noises]
Don't you mean [Ale-songs and marching music]?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=08g_IcFXLcM

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>>53312478
>Rome was sacked by foreigners, but as far as I know no one ever tried to stay and rule it.

>Rome got sacked six times, nobody stayed
>China got sacked six times as well, every single one of them stayed

Really makes you wonder, doesn't it?

>>53338218
The first time that Rome got sacked the romans bribed the celts to leave the city.
The other times that Rome got sacked it had lost its relevance and was no longer the capital of the empire. The value it held were only sentimental.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

>>53310289
>Capitalism by itself has no moral values. When coupled with the state it produces corporatism, lobbying and monopolies.

Agree

>Libertarianism and its extreme of anarcho-capitalism are the only valid solutions.

haha no

>>53331549
>>53332641
I think anon is merely pretending to be retarded.
>>53332641
>Village elders used to get all butthurt about Americans showing up and shooting people after the midday meal. And at night? Oh man, the bitching.

Kek. Thats how America was FOUNDED bitch. Fucking the rules of decency is basically America's special power, cause the british said the same goddamn thing about us

>>53312330
The Voyage Home has already set us on the right path.

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>>53339957
Fact remains. Nobody but the Romans ever bothered to hold the city.

Not saying that Rome is a shit, but across the centuries, many people and races agreed that the city of Rome had no value beyond its function as a piggy bank.

Had Hanibal won, he'd probably have been all like: "LOL, u kno wat? Keep your city!"

>>53329097

Kek, top-tier shitpost, you have earned this (you)

>>53343093
Gee I wonder why people don't tend to stick around in an area that is located in the center of their foe's territory.

>Had Hanibal won, he'd probably have been all like: "LOL, u kno wat? Keep your city!"
You do realise that Hannibal's plan was not to conquer italy but to collapse the roman alliance system so that Rome returned to its ancients way of being just one city state amongst many?

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>>53332661
Don't be absur-

>>53322574
Let's be honest, there's LITERALLY NOTHING wrong with the Roman distinction between active citizens, passive citizens and peregrines. LITERALLY NOTHING. In fact, there's so much NOTHING wrong with it that I'd welcome the return of such a system in the modern day: passive citizenship by default for natives, active citizenship for natives who serve and peregrine status for immigrants, whose children gain the ability to earn citizenship (with some exceptions who are under special conditions automatically conferred citizenship, I imagine this would be a good way to attract highly educated foreigners for example). It would certainly help prevent foreign elements from subverting the republic, which is why I imagine the Romans did it in the first place. Can you even begin to imagine the shitstorm if Roman senators tried to appeal to the Gallic voting cattle by promising them gibsmedats? Rome would barely last two centuries.

>>53306097
>Players are all sheep fucking barbarians living in a rain drenched shithole trying to desperately stave off having to be made to be civilized

That was easy

>>53320977
>a Galatia in Anatolia.
super-fascinating people.
"Let's roam across half of europe for a new place to crash in"
One part meets thracians, fights with them until they reach turkey.
One part invades macedonia as an invitation by some king.
Respected by everyone as crazy ass warriors.
Maintain celtic culture in the middle of Anatolia.
Get an entire book of the Bible dedicated to them.

>>53345063
>Get an entire book of the Bible dedicated to them.
Wasn't that just Paul writing letters to the early church in Galatia? Not exactly the same as an entire book dedicated to the Galatian people. It's basically the same as the letters to the Corinthians and Romans, it had less to do with those people being badass and more with them having theological disputes Paul had to intercede in.

>>53345134
nah, meant it was interesting a part of them converted so early they are mentioned in the New Testament(lets be honest, the only reason one is mentioned in that thing is either being a bunch of squabbling, heretical idiots, being Jesus, or being given as a good example to those other squabbling heretics), not because they are epic warriors.

>>53308614
>Hela Gallien? NEJ!

>>53344519
>I agree with you for the reason that it promotes caring for the state. Ofc, service shouldn't be exclusively military but include any number of things that the state has need of, be it skilled work (be it intellectual or physical), artistry or sportmanship.

>>53345433
Didn't mean to make it a quote.

>>53345063
Don't forget that the galatian invasion resulted in military advances such as the adoption of a new type of shield amongst the hellenes.