/STG/ - Star Trek General

>>53294256

Hey anon, I put Mass Effect in your Trek because I heard Mass Effect was the hip new Trek in town.

>>53294429
I'm pretty sure the Alien that wen't on about his race "sensing death" was a Solarian, so yeah, basically.

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What the fuck is wrong with CBS?

>>53294605

I hope he can sense the impending death of STD.

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>>53294930

>>53294866
Too much to list.
Let's just sit back and bask in the glory of the new Miranda-class model instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6Lnrd9EGMs

>>53295067

She looks so good.

>>53295067
How's the Tier 6 Miranda shaping up? She gonna be any good?

>>53295391

Well, the stats are out, and she's a bit underwhelming in my opinion, but maybe the extra maneuverability, extra shield modifier, and the Pilot seating will be a bigger deal than I think.

I'm still going to get it.

>http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10502913-advanced-light-cruiser-bundle-stats%21

>>53295435
Fair enough. I just adore the Miranda. Never been sure why, but I always thought Reliant looked better than Enterprise when I was a kid. I dunno.

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>>53295581

I can understand adoring the Miranda. She's a fine ship, but better than Enterprise?

GET OUT! REE! REE! How dare you say that about Enterprise! She's a lady, and we love her!

>>53295799
I never said Enterprise wasn't beautiful. I just have more of a crush on on the Miranda. Stop judging me.

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>>53296046

You can like whatever ship you want anon. It was a joke.

>>53296198
Nah, you've broken my innocent heart. I have to hate the Connie now, and it's all your fault. I hope you're happy.

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>>53296226

More for me to love then.

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>we will never get a post Dominion War series because of all the TOS wank.
Fucking kill me lads

>>53296608
The biggest issue is that TV writers don't know how to handle the power level. A prequel was a good idea for ENT since we'd had 14 years of continual spinoffs of spinoffs, but Rick "fucking" Berman was already whining that he didn't know how to handle the more advanced tech and power levels that Starfleet was reaching.

So we can all agree Discovery looks like everything wrong with NuTrek and more rolled into one, but what about The Orville.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8aUuFsXRjU

>>53296790
Hopefully it's at least as decent as Galaxy Quest. Prolly not because Seth Macfarlane, but Jon Favreau might do OK.

>>53296854
MacFarlane is an avid trekkie and the early Family Guy was good, I have neutral expectations.

>>53296738

And even then ENT basically was "business as usual" until the later seasons brought in a new producer/head writer.

>>53296790

After having watched this trailer yesterday, then watching the STD trailer today, and watching this one again just now... I'm way more excited for this.

I had written out a bunch of speculation, but I've deleted it. We'll just have to wait and see.

I wanted to believe in Discovery. I really, really did.

And now I'm sad.

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>>53296790
Well, we know at least certain people involved really fucking love the subject matter so even if turns out bad, it'll probably be bad in a way where you can tell that it is still trying to be good; rather than just a soulless husk wearing the subject's skin and making a few references whilst doing nothing but going through the usual motions.

>>53297181
I'm willing to give it a chance, the Klingons are the only GLARING negative for me so far

I expected copious CGI after the JJverse and tech that looked better than TOS stuff since Enterprise (and again the JJverse, much as I hate it, supposedly is the new standard for "TOS tech level" I assume)

If they have a good plot and fun characters I could overlook the blemishes, lord knows I gave Voyager and Enterprise a fair chance at that

>>53297400
>the Klingons are the only GLARING negative for me so far
Same here, but if they really are just ancient Klingons and we get to see some Klink Klassiks running around at some point too, I'll be fine with it.

last night in a drug induced mania i had a plan devised to create, fund and produce a star trek crpg but 4chan was shitting the bed and i couldn't post it

should i?

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APOLOGIZE

>>53297876
Go away!

>>53297876
what is it with ricks??

>>53297400
Wait, was there a new trailer? I've only seen the two teasers with the radically different ship designs.

>>53298088
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoV3kc05Nwc

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>>53298119
I was hopeful for like thirty seconds and then got profoundly irritated.

Man...

>>53297851
Yes

Holy shit this looks bad.

Sooooo bad.

It woas going to flop anyway, but wow...

>>53297876
I'm sorry Rick Berman's mother didn't abort him.

>>53298198
ok

step 1 was to contact cbs or whoever owns the rights and find out how much it would cost to obtain the license for use in a game

step 2 scour stg for madmen to help produce the game

step 3 crowdfund the cost of licensing the game

if this worked then step 4 would be to contact trek actors and find any who were willing to lend their voices to the game (hopefully for free), in order to drum up shekels for the game

step 5) dance on rodenberry's grave

step 6) ???

step 7) profit

>>53294256
>Discovery looks shit

Fuck you, I like Michelle Yeoh. I also find the prospect of a human-vulcan hybrid who decides to be human very interesting.

>>53298774

Spock already did that almost 60 years ago.

>>53298808
Spock went Vulcan, not Human.

>>53298823
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQnwMXWgksQ

Holy shit I just realized the abbreviation for the new Trek is STD.

It's literally aids.

>>53298774

>chink actress who won't be in it beyond the pilot
>alien/human hybrid who rejects one cultural legacy over another
>this is enough to declare it not shit

Even with those things you like in it, it's still shaping up to be shit. Mass Effect flavored shit, in fact.

We'll see when it's out. If it surprises us and is good, we'll recant. Until then, Discovery must prove it isn't shit.

>>53291066
Nope, not at the moment at least.

>>53296738
if you want to maintain any sort of continuity, it's a problem

not just Voyager coming back laden down with exotic tech and a wealth of experience of the galaxy beyond any Old Galaxy powers, but the Federation-Romulan-Klingon alliance

it's easy to handwave the big issues for a movie - but they only got 1 post DS9/VOY, so you get this return to the status quo with the Romulans (believable) and no indication of what the Klingons are up to or why Worf is back again and just kind of throw Janeway in as a cameo, and none of it ever gets built on because DS9 killed the franchise

where do you go? back to Inter Arnim? OK, the Romulans are fucking up, so what else is new?

the Borg? more Borg, now, really? it could be interesting - it could be the Federation reaching out along Voyager's track, updating its fleets with slipstream drives and carving what promises to be a fresh tranche of allied territories out; it could be a movie about the Romulans trying to stop that, the Klingons getting threatened by it, the Dominion resurgent - but you'd need a new crew and a movie wouldn't have time to deal with the slow-burn politics (any more than Nemesis could)

TNG crew could only do TNG family stuff because it's what they're about; DS9 wouldn't have drawn the audiences and would have been a predictable plot about getting Sisko back and yadda yadda Cardies, so yeah, new crew

and a new series, but again - power creep is inevitable; the Federation took on the Borg and won, hands down, with one ship; the Federation took on the Dominion and won, hands down, at a terrible cost - several of those starships were destroyed multiple times, we all saw it - so that leaves us arguing about why transphasic torpedoes are less useful against the Scimitar than a kilometer-wide cube

the danger is that in building up your series antagonist to be a credible threat, you set up the following seasons for even more power creep or a stunning reversal of the Federation's fortunes

>>53298988

>DS9 killed the franchise

VOY, ENT, and Nemesis might have something to say about that.

>>53298988
>DS9 killed the franchise
Gene pls go

>>53299084
No, I'm with the previous anon - Deep Space Nine killed the franchise insofar as story potential is concerned, for the reasons he outlined.

It's the reason why most serious discussion about what to do post-DS9 usually involves a serious shakeup of the Federation. New Frontier, Federation, hell, even Star Trek Online to an extent.

>>53299407
But considering the shit DS9 was already playing with to shake up the Federation - Section 31, the attempted coup on Earth, the constant attempts by the Mirror Universe to remain relevant - this doesn't really seem like a stumbling block to me at all. I mean realistically what chance in Hell is there that the Cardies, Klingons, and Romulans are just gonna pack up and go on to be good good buddy friends for more than, say, a year?

>>53299407

Yeah, no. What killed the franchise was poor handling by Berman and Braga, who lacked the imagination to take the show in a new direction. Even when they tried (ENT) it was half-hearted, and sloppy (phase cannons instead of phasers, phase pistoles instead of phasers, polarized hull plating instead of shields, a grappler instead of a tractor beam - same shit, different jargon).

Ratings had been slipping for years after TNG went off the air. The move to UPN didn't help. If anything, it was TNG that killed Trek because it made it popular with casual audiences, who then fucked off when Trek stopped being TNG. Berman and Braga kept trying that TNG formula, but it didn't bring the ratings back.

>>53299493
I'm sure that the various Alpha and Beta Quadrant powers will be up to all sorts of stuff in the coming decades. However, the question is, how is any of it going to be meaningfully different from what's already happened?

Remember that a huge complaint about Voyager and Enterprise is that a lot of it feels like it's just trying to be the 8th season of TNG, with more random planets and exploration - which is fun but gets old fast. How many truly new stories can be told in that format? It doesn't help that "exploration" really tended to just be a code-word for "confronting modern day social issues through a sci-fi lens", but you've seen the reaction of trolls and assholes to things like a black woman lead or the idea of a transexual officer...and likewise, I just don't think there's enough ground to cover that hasn't already been covered.

And the alternative - a more focused piece centered on post-Dominion Alpha/Beta politics - will basically just end up being a rehash of what we already got out of DS9. Deep Space Nine played out most of the real story potential there already. There's nothing truly NEW to do, or at least (bearing in mind that nothing is really "new") very little left to work with to be engaging.

What would you do? Have the Klingon Empire turn belligerent AGAIN? Have the Federation run into ANOTHER big stronk power like the Dominion?

I don't think it's impossible, mind. But I do think that in order to create a believable backdrop to make things really interesting, you'd need to drastically change up some of the underlying assumptions of the setting (one of which would be a timeskip - we need to get away from the TNG/DS9/VOY era, get some space the way TNG did from TOS). I have some ideas about that, but they're universally "risky" and not something a network would ever approve of because of that risk.

>>53299918
>but you've seen the reaction of trolls and assholes to things like a black woman lead or the idea of a transexual officer

On both sides of the issue, it must be said. You can't do anything that's social commentary without getting idiots from the two extreme ends of the spectrum setting up firing lanes and shooting through your shit.

>>53299918

Honestly, The Romulan Empire and Spy game, and the eventual opening up of the Romulan empire the way china / russia opened up.

>>53299963
While that is mostly true, Star Trek is REALLY not the hill you wanna die on if your stance is "Too much agenda pushing in media nowadays"

Gene was pretty fucking explicit about why he made a show in 1966 and put not just a bunch of people of different ethnicity as his main cast but some very specific ethnicities whose presence said a lot in the mid 60s: a Russian guy in the middle of the Cold War, a Japanese guy barely 20 years afters WWII, a black lady at the tail end of the Civil Rights movement.

Shit, compared to the gigantic fucking statement that must have made to an American audience in 1966, having a black female main character in 2017 seems pretty fucking quaint

>>53300045
I think the feeling of that was that it was progressive, but this feels like pandering.

>>53300187
I agree, but that said...

>>53300045
>Star Trek is REALLY not the hill you wanna die on if your stance is "Too much agenda pushing in media nowadays"

This is also pretty damn fair, honestly. Don't forget TV's first interracial kiss, that was also Star Trek's doing.

>>53300028
Honestly, with the introduction of the Remans, I see the Romulan/Reman relation instead being the perfect opportunity to explore a "black lives matter" story, although that would (again) require a huge timeskip.

Also I'm probably unique in this thread in that even if I don't necessarily like all of the specific choices that Cryptic has made, I still generally like the overall direction and playout of events in Star Trek Online, here defined as being:

- The Klingon Empire waxes strong and incorporates new races;
- The Romulan Republic is formed from the ashes of the Romulan Star Empire, though only after a long and difficult struggle with the Tal Shiar and Romulan Star Empire (and the Star Empire itself never fully collapses, instead continuing to exist as a rump state);
- The Undine manipulate the Klingons and Federation into a war, but the Undine themselves are being goaded by the Iconians;
- The Iconians wage a nigh-apocalyptic war in the Alpha/Beta Quadrant but are stopped in the end via more-or-less exactly what happened in "Midnight", voluntarily ending the war and retiring to Iconia rather than truly being defeated;
- A result of the Iconian War is the Triple Alliance between the Federation, Klingons, and Romulans, which is now exploring the Delta Quadrant in detail
- Omega particles everywhere

I consider STO to still be part of the "Picard era", so I'd personally close out that era there and advance the timeline a century or two.

>>53300233
Oh no, I can totally see both sides. However, TOS had them as people just doing their jobs. This has a special snowflake half Vulcan when Spock was considered an anomaly, and she's suffering discrimination because of who she is, and that's all we know about the crew, aside from the weird Ayylmao.

>>53300273
And apparently unlike Spock, this half-Vulcan is deciding to be more Human than Vulcan?

>>53300295
That too, considering she seems to have been raised on Vulcan like Spock was as well.

>>53300233
>This is also pretty damn fair, honestly. Don't forget TV's first interracial kiss, that was also Star Trek's doing.
-ish. It was the first interracial kiss on an American TV series, but only if you define "interracial" as white/black and not something like white/asian (and only if you don't include a kiss on the cheek).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_interracial_kiss_on_television#Star_Trek

>>53300373
Was it the first one to get the studio mail because of the kiss is what really matters.

>>53299503

The best thing to do for a new show is simply continue from the last known bit of the main trek continuity; the detonation of Romulus. And have what used to be a stable-but-threatening star empire collapse into space Balkans. Suddenly you have all sorts of troubles and rogue factions right on the doorstep of the Federation, and you can rest assured the Klingons would try to seague right back into conquest mode when there's a fresh new buffet of conquestable states right next door.

>>53300406

There could be a time jump involved as well, and with that, you could set up multiple factions of Romulans, plus aliens we've never seen before because they were behind the Green Curtain.

And by factions, I don't mean one plucky Republic fighting the Star Empire's leftovers and the Tal Shiar. This would give the Klingons a chance to rebuild and be the glorious asshats that they are.

>>53300273
>This has a special snowflake half Vulcan when Spock was considered an anomaly

Hate to point this out, but as a post-scarcity spacefaring species, the population of the Vulcans is almost certainly measured in the billions. But even if it's just hundreds of millions, if there's only 2 half-Vulcans among them, they'd still be seen as anomalous.

>and she's suffering discrimination because of who she is

I mean...so did Spock, at least from Vulcans.

>>53300306
>That too, considering she seems to have been raised on Vulcan like Spock was as well.

Also at the risk of defending something I don't particularly care for: Worf is a full-blooded Klingon, raised on Earth, yet identifies more as a Klingon. But TNG also gave us Deanna Troi, who seems to not choose between human or Betazoid; Jono/Jeremiah, a full-blooded human raised by Talarians who identifies more as a Talarian; and K'Elhyr, a half-Klingon/half-human who identifies much more closely as human than Klingon.

The point being, the place you're physically raised seems to be long established as just one aspect of where a person identifies themselves as being.

>>53300187
TOS was incredibly pander-y. I mean, it was originally slated to have a female second-in-command, and it did have a Russian (in the middle of the Cold War), a Jap, and a black woman on the bridge. That's ridiculous and showy diversity for its time, and if it doesn't seem like that to you, it just shows how far we've come. Honestly, the only thing that I can think of that would be at all equivalent nowadays would be to have a transgender character, a Muslim, a communist, and... I don't know... an adult entertainer who used to do donkey porn?

>>53300406
>>53300450
Don't even need to go past Hobus; immediately after Nemesis would have been absolute chaos on Romulus.

>>53300450
>plus aliens we've never seen before because they were behind the Green Curtain.

Honestly you don't even need to do that much. There are tons of aliens we HAVE seen that we don't know anything about. Or Hell, even Federation member worlds we don't know anything about.

Like Alpha Centauri. Damnit I want to know more about Alpha Centauri.

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>>53300549
What exactly do you consider to be "pandering"? Because I guarantee you, no one in the 60s was clamoring to have a black person on a starship bridge.

>>53300480
> But even if it's just hundreds of millions, if there's only 2 half-Vulcans among them, they'd still be seen as anomalous.
Spock was born only because of some IVF jiggery pokery, in both Alpha and Beta canon, which was why he was the anomaly.

>I mean...so did Spock, at least from Vulcans.
Yeah I'll admit my argument sucked there, but Spock got discriminated against in spite of aspiring to be truly Vulcan, rather than trying to fight against his heritage, which is a played out story.

>The point being, the place you're physically raised seems to be long established as just one aspect of where a person identifies themselves as being.
I'd say Vulcans are the masters of passive aggressive "act like we expect you to, or we'll shun you." Thus why this woman acting Human strikes me as odd.

>>53300549
My point is that aside from superficial details, the crew was pretty uniformly just doing their jobs. Hell, we never saw *any* crew member's background and their angst about it except for Kirk and Spock, and those directly affected the plot. This new show looks like we're gonna hear about how hard Half Vulcan XO had to deal with discrimination to get where she is.

>>53300045
>Shit, compared to the gigantic fucking statement that must have made to an American audience in 1966, having a black female main character in 2017 seems pretty fucking quaint

It's not the statement. It's how the statement is made. Sulu was Japanese, but there wasn't a Sulu episode or scene in which the viewer was clubbed over the head with "ZOMG HE'S A JAP AND YET A GOOD GUY, YOU RACIST SHITS." Ditto, Uhura and Checkov. They were Starfleet officers who just so happened to be black and Russian. For all his faults, Roddenberry (mostly) didn't club the viewer with progressive ideology and instead simply presented a future where all that shit no longer mattered.

ST:AIDS however won't be making statements like that.

They're going to club the viewer like a baby seal on a Canadian ice flow. In true Hollywood style, ideological purity will be front and center instead of progressive ideas being presented as a fait accompli. There WILL be an episode where the captain has to deal with racism & sexism and there WILL be an episode where the trannie has to deal with whatever -isms applies to those mentally ill freaks.

Where TOS was content to show, ST:AIDS will insist on preaching and that's why ST:AIDS will fail.

>>53300624
As much as trainwreck Destiny seems to be heading into, you are reading awfully alot to a series YOU HAVE NOT SEEN A SINGLE EPISODE YET.

>>53300808

Track records, anon, track records. Given the way most Hollywood product is currently produced, what do you think is going to happen?

The race isn't always to the swiftest, nor the fight to the strongest, but that is the way to bet.

Also, studio execs have long stated on record that they pay for phony reviews, phantom FB likes, phantom Twitter followers, and other internet shills so we're going to see more and more "opinions" like yours up to ST:AIDS launch.

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>>53298774
>>53298808
>>53298979
If you guys are talking about this character, she's not half Vulcan. She's a human who was raised by Vulcans. So following the logic philosophy but having none of the green-bloodedness.

>>53301058
Why is the set so monochrome and blurry, was this filmed by a one-eyed trichromatic with cataracts?

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>>53300624
>They're going to club the viewer like a baby seal on a Canadian ice flow.

Based on what exactly? People said the same shit about gay Sulu and what did we get? One scene where he walks off with someone who could easily have been his brother.

JJTrek has actually been incredibly lax when it comes to social messages, especially when you compare it with Trek episodes that really tried to (badly) nail home evolution vs creationism, socialism vs capitalism, etc. just to name a few examples. The first fucking season of TNG introduced Trek's first antagonists whose biggest sin was that they were capitalists.

>>53301072
>blurry

I would attribute that more to the image being low res than any active studio decision-making.

>>53301058

So her black parents vanished and left their kid to be raised by someone else?

>>53301058
They didn't even try and emulate the TOS uniform style, and it irritates the hell out of me. I don't know why they bother going with established eras if they don't want the material that goes with it.

>>53301102
No, I mean how the lights extend so far beyond where the actual light is, like that huge smear on the right.

>>53301134
That's just lens flare, anon. They're pulling a Trek 09.

>>53301140
"Lens flare" sounds desirable, why would they give a good name to having a smudge on the lens.

>>53301162
Photographers like a short hand that isn't "blurry light source."

>>53301088
>JJTrek has actually been incredibly lax when it comes to social messages, especially when you compare it with Trek episodes that really tried to (badly) nail home evolution vs creationism, socialism vs capitalism, etc. just to name a few examples

Well, that's because JJTrek kinda did the same thing that TOS did when it came to a lot of other social issues. Once again, you had a multiethnic crew that just...WAS multiethnic as a natural consequence of drawing from the wide pool of humanity.

I'm not as sure as that anon as to the degree of how hard they're going to push the message, but I certainly expect it will be pushed at some point in a way that's not nearly so natural.

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You're a Starfleet captain on an away mission with your crew to explore a newly discovered Class M planet when you notice your Vulcan science officer seems a bit more buxom than usual, probably owing to her mammaries being partially exposed in a fashion that Old Earth euphemists might refer to as "spilled milk."

You pull her aside for a moment to point out this irregularity, being careful to be as professional and discrete as possible in order to avoid causing her any unnecessary embarrassment, only to be met with a rather stern and characteristically Vulcan response.

>”Captain, with all due respect, I must attest that I find your quaint human notions of indecency and modesty to be outmoded, unenlightened, and worst of all, illogical. Indeed, your obvious attempts to impose your cultural normative values against my own constitute a clear and apparent case of racial discrimination in violation of Starfleet regulations.”

Response, Captain?

>>53301133
I think it's to remind viewers of nuTrek. Just like the sets, the effects, the Klinks, etc.
I have absolutely nothing to back this up, but I think one of the early production issues that forced out all the cool people that were originally working on it was the emphasis on JJTrek vs. the real canon. From the early interviews and stuff, it seemed they wanted to be TNG 4.0. I can definitely see conflicts forming with that view, and the obvious studio view that the show should be like the movies, because the movies are successful so they want that audience, and CBS hasn't respected the audience's intelligence since forever, so they are just wanting to ape the style of the movies to draw in retards I guess. I can see that driving away the original visionaries of the show.

>>53301185
It was never "natural" in any of the previous series, you just let it slide because you weren't seeing it in the present context of literally everyone on every side of the political spectrum getting triggered. Discovery could have far less social issues being brought up and our inclination would still be to nitpick anything we see, even when we know it won't reach the level of fucking Sisko bitching about a holodeck program taking place in an era that was great for black people.

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>>53301133
>They didn't even try and emulate the TOS uniform style

I'm not even going to pretend that's an issue for me. I can respect if it bothers you, but since they seem about as close to TOS as Enterprise was, I really couldn't care less.

>>53301197

In my culture, it is required to suckle from you. I trust this won't be a problem, given your respect for Starfleet regulations.

>>53301197
Remind her that Vulcan culture values modesty in dress and exposing skin, and that her present dress, if indeed due to her own cultural values, means she is not following Vulcan culture at all, and thus appropriating some other culture, which is ungood. Also, this is unusual, since it caught my attention enough to say something, which means that it isn't a normal part of her culture, and that she's either being a slut, or messing with me. Oh, and since I'm the captain, I make uniform decisions, and so if I say she's going against the dress code, she is; and if she doesn't like it, she can request a transfer off my ship.

>>53301225
>Discovery could have far less social issues being brought up and our inclination would still be to nitpick anything we see

Almost assuredly. The thing that triggers me the most about it right now is just the damn Abramstrek Klingons showing up in a series that should be set in the prime universe.

>>53301225
>It was never "natural" in any of the previous series

It absolutely was. It was, dare I say, handled perfectly. Hell, same deal with Geordi.

>>53301294
Also Sato and Mayweather in Enterprise.

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>>53301197
Give her the jelly.

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>>53301282
I would honestly be fine with them retconning all the aliens to look more xeno instead of just weird foreheads or stupid shit like the Ba'Ku in Insurrection.

For that matter, it was a dumb misstep for DS9 and Enterprise to retcon the Klingons in TOS as being all genetic cross-species abominations instead of just chalking them up to limited special effects at the time.

>>53301294
>>53301303
What about them? Geordi was the only one with any character or personality while Sato and Mayweather were interchangeable, unremarkable characters. They were literally the definition of token, especially Mayweather.

>>53301357
I'll give you Mayweather, but I liked Sato. But yeah...you say "token", I say "as it should be". The entire point is that none of that really *mattered* any more by then. They were able to be *people* rather than symbols for a race. Enterprise may not have developed those characters enough, but even so.

>>53301337
I just feel like if you're going to do a prequel, not respecting what's been established misses a lot of the point.

>>53301248
Mostly it's because JJTrek went to the same lengths, even if the patterns weren't all that good looking on the shirt. It's only 2255 or thereabouts, rather than 2200. Plus The Cage had uniforms from 10 years earlier during the flashbacks. The close fitting jacket with gold paneling just... doesn't fit Star Trek at all, even the Motion Picture uniforms.

Oh and I *hate* that JJTrek and this show both used/are using the Enterprise Arrowhead for their insignia, when it wasn't adopted until 2270.

>>53301389
I say token because they never did anything of major significance and were completely unnecessary to most of the episode plots. If that's how you think it "should be," then you literally just want people who were there as "symbols of their race" since their race was their most defining characteristic.

Compare that to JJTrek, where for all its flaws all the characters actually had roles and functions while getting decent screentime and serving a purpose in the story. Their "race" or "gender" was never their defining character traits.

They were people. As much as Kirk and Spock and McCoy.

>>53301400
Enterprise took a complete and thorough shit on continuity. Everything from the way they shoehorned the Borg to the Ferengi and Klingons and even the Romulans in the events that were supposed to lead up to the Earth-Romulan War.

>>53301422
>I say token because they never did anything of major significance and were completely unnecessary to most of the episode plots.

Ah, okay. I just thought you meant "their race was never really remarked on overmuch and most of what plots did come their way related more to their skills or various aspects of their personalities/relationships". Which also really applies to Geordi. That's what I'm trying to champion here.

>>53301389
Sounds like a prerequisite for nonwhites or women being considered people to you is when they remain background extras who you never have to notice.

Says quite a bit about you.

>>53301438
>Enterprise took a complete and thorough shit on continuity

I'm very much not a fan of Enterprise either.

>>53301458
See >>53301454

>>53301454
Geordi was good but Mayweather was a complete non-presence and pure cringe when he had any lines. Sato was okay but she only had a few times where she was anything more than Archer's secretary and the one episode where she actually gets to be important is in the Mirror Universe.

>>53301465
My point in bringing it up wasn't so I could deflect from where Discovery might fuck up, just pointing out that people gave Enterprise a pretty huge breadth before giving up. Seems like everyone's already making up their minds about this new series without even giving it anywhere near the chance they gave Enterprise. And also that continuity was never as important to Trek as some pseudo-fans like to suggest, since previous series broke with continuity constantly.

>>53301482
>but Mayweather was a complete non-presence and pure cringe when he had any lines

Yeah, this is fair. Though honestly I feel like that would've been true no matter who the actor was.

>>53301504
>Seems like everyone's already making up their minds about this new series without even giving it anywhere near the chance they gave Enterprise

Well, think about it this way. We tried to give Enterprise a chance, and while it did have *some* good shit, it was mostly a fairly big fuckup. And after that, I'm just not feeling charitable, and I can understand why a lot of other people similarly aren't.

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>>53301548
Except we were feeling charitable towards Enterprise when Voyager already fucked up way worse. If you don't feel like giving Discovery a chance, then don't. I'll be waiting to see what reviews and friends say anyway before I start downloading it for free.

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>>53301133
Fuck the uniforms. What the fuck is up with the Klingons?

Honestly, the worst thing is not that any particular aspect looks that problematic on its own (but still: what the fuck is up with the Klingons?), but that the similar look to JJ Trek probably indicate similarities in overall style and approach. It's going to really piss me off if JJ "I never really got Star Trek" Abrams fucked the entire franchise up.

>>53301389
>>53301482
>>53301531
Both Hoshi and Travis were part of a proper ensemble cast at the first part of ENT. But somewhere towards the second part of S1, they decided to try going the "3 friends +1" like TOS, because even that early in the show people were giving up (most people had already made up their minds by the end of the pilot if not before, desu, and never gave the show a real chance), and everyone likes TOS so Berman of course did the stupid thing. Hoshi got some time to shine later on, mostly because she's the only girl besides T'Boobs. Travis got shafted, though I figure that's in part due to the fact that he can't act.

>>53301633
>Fuck the uniforms. What the fuck is up with the Klingons?
Oh man, if I started bitching about the Klingons, I'd fill the thread with the whining. The nicest thing I can say is that they look like Dunmer from Oblivion, with too many mods added.

>>53301655
They look like someone tried to make a Redguard without knowing what a human looks like.

>>53301633
People always give him shit for that line while forgetting that long-time Trek mainstays like Berman and Braga were the real reasons Trek died in the first place and needed to be revived.

And like >>53301337 said, Klingons have been changed constantly. I hope by the next series or movie (after Discovery) they'll actually have the balls to make Klingons look like large insects or something.

>>53301650
>Travis got shafted, though I figure that's in part due to the fact that he can't act.

His lines were awful but yeah it didn't help that he couldn't act for shit and had zero charisma. He had all the presence of a Channel Awesome skit performer.

>>53301607
>Except we were feeling charitable towards Enterprise when Voyager already fucked up way worse

Well, keep in mind that Voyager followed DS9, which was really good. So, at least in my experience? That was more of a case of "well, maybe Voyager was just a temporary stumble and ENT will be better". Also, I should add that in my own case, the Abramstrek movies also kind of further soured me since I didn't really enjoy those either.

>>53301337
>For that matter, it was a dumb misstep for DS9 and Enterprise to retcon the Klingons in TOS as being all genetic cross-species abominations instead of just chalking them up to limited special effects at the time.
This. The whole shoe-polish, Ming-the-Merciless, Asian-peril look was down to them having a buck fifty to spend on makeup. Even the movies with the original cast just transitioned to bumpy Klingons without anything said. Trying to write a transformation into the continuity is like trying to rationalize why they don't have seat belts on the bridge or something. Mind you, there is the matter of the changing Klingon mentality (from conniving bastards to savage viking warriors who talk about honor all the time), but I'm okay with them going with either approach, or maybe going with a compromise between them (which is probably the best option, as the original take lacked much to distinguish them from asshole humans, and the latter take was overblown and a bit tiresome).

>>53301674
>Klingons have been changed constantly

Right, but we *know* how they're supposed to look in this part of the timeline, plus the look here is largely from an alternate timeline that DIS isn't part of. That's why it bugs me.

>>53301693

I wonder what would have happened if they kept with the original idea of the old black guy who's seen too much shit.

Also DIS is set only 10 years before the original series. Do you know how little time that is? Because I feel like the people behind DIS have no idea.

>>53301674
>People always give him shit for that line while forgetting that long-time Trek mainstays like Berman and Braga were the real reasons Trek died in the first place and needed to be revived.
I'm not going to pretend like Trek didn't go downhill at the end, but I still feel like it was Trek. Abrams didn't like Star Trek and set out to make a movie that somebody like him would enjoy, so basically something that only wore the clothing of Star Trek. Voyager was shitty and disappointing. JJ Trek was offensive and disrespectful to the spirit of Star Trek. And I say that as somebody who isn't usually that much of a traditionalist.

>>53301736
I just don't see the issue, and I say this as a long-time (20+ years) Trek fan. Maybe it's set in the alternate universe after all, either way I just don't think it matters. Klingons are big, strong, generally dark and have a warrior code. That's it. Beyond that, the creative/makeup team should be allowed to take some liberties.

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>>53301633
>What the fuck is up with the Klingons?

>look like Into Dumbness klinks to appeal to nuTrek fags
>when they were only shown for about five minutes
>and are completely unrecognizable to normies as klingons anyways
Is Rick Berman back on the job?

>>53301756
...wasn't the Constitution-class Enterprise *in service* at least that far back before the original start point of TOS?

>>53301756
>DIS
I thought the accepted abbreviation was AIDS.

>>53301776
I respect your opinion (bet you never thought you'd hear that on 4chan), but I just don't really agree. I feel like prequels should mostly try to respect what's been established rather than going for retcons. DIS isn't the first example...might not even be the WORST example, but it just grinds my gears.

>>53301779

As of the first proper episode of TOS, the Enterprise had been in service for 20 years.

>>53301799
Do we know the social and status implications of Kirk's Enterprise as the series was happening? TNG Enterprise was the flagship with the creme de la creme, was Kirk's Enterprise similarly regarded or was it just one of many exploratory vessels?

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>>53301766
He never said he hated it, let's not go full retard. It wasn't his thing as much as Star Wars but he definitely hit a lot of decent notes that resonated with Trek fans. My dad loves Trek and he also likes the new movies even without the more heavy sci-fi themes. Was it disappointing that it wasn't more cerebral? Sure, but at that point Trek needed a fresh infusion just be relevant again.

And as for "feeling" like Trek, that stopped after TNG ended. DS9 was a complete betrayal of Roddenberry's vision but people liked it anyway. I realized a long time ago that trying to be a fan purist was an exercise in futility and disappointment. You'll always have subsections who swear by TOS, TNG, DS9 and even VOY and ENT.

Frankly I'm sick and tired and fed up with all of it. I'd rather just enjoy each incarnation and installation on its own merits and drop it completely if I can't find any.

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>>53301799
Oh lord.

>>53301822

Also note that Spock had served under Pike for 11 years before Kirk took command of the Enterprise.

>>53301792
That's fine, it just really doesn't bother me. I'll treat it like I've treated literally every Trek series, which is to say a story with only loose connections to any previous parts of the franchise. It's just a brand in the end, with certain elements to make it feel familiar to those who followed previous series but otherwise being a new string of adventures and discoveries. The brand is there to make it more digestible for those who maybe aren't ready to jump into something completely unfamiliar like Farscape or The Expanse.

>>53301822
Anon, the events of The Cage happen a year before this fucking show starts. Good luck even hearing about Pike, Spock or Number One.

>>53301058
Bridge doesn't look terrible

>>53301895
People are already bitching because they say it doesn't look spacious enough or properly lit. Or that it's too generic. Fans can be such cancer.

>>53301197
Listen here, you knife-eared bitch. I didn't graduate from the Academy, risk my life countless times and earn the captains chair by backing down. You want to make this legal? Fine. Great, even.

What chicken-shit court do you think will uphold your clear breach of Starfleet Uniform code? What's that? No clever response? Well then, from now on you'll dress like a Starfleet officer and you'll damn-well act like one, to boot.

>>53301867
Worse than that, the Star Trek continuity has almost become an albatross on the neck of any new iteration.

>>53301929
For me it's just too reminiscent of the Abramstrek style, which never really looked good to me. Too darn glossy for what it's trying to be.

>>53301949
>giving a serious answer

Boo.

>>53301929
I can agree with the sentiment that it's not properly lit. It's too dark for a Starfleet bridge. Aside from the LCARs popping up, my only issue is that they could have cloned the Connie bridge in a nicer style than JJTrek and made something spectacular.

>>53301953
Blame the right's owners for not doing what Lucasfilm did and setting up proper Alpha/Beta canon and calling it all noncanon, then not telling their writers not to import stuff.

>>53301929
I'm just worried the lens flare indicates that the show will have the same style-over-substance approach to the movies. By itself, it's fine though, just as long as it isn't the symptom of that larger disease.

>>53301337
I always thought it would have been brilliant if, when the Defiant went back in time, Worf instantly looked like a TOS Klingon and nobody ever brought it up.

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>>53301987
That would've been fucking hilarious.

>>53301987
>>53302027
It really would have been, and most people who I talk to about the show (including people who still REE over Ford's Klingons) thought that would have been excellent.

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>>53301266
>>53301949
>>82888263
>Starfleet has a clear dress code that prohibits cleavage.

By the time of STO, most uniform codes have been relaxed significantly. This isn't JJ universe by the way, this is according to the prime continuity.

>>53302083
Technically, everybody should abide by
sto.gamepedia.com/Guide:_Uniform_colors/Odyssey_Uniforms

But it's an MMO, so of course I have Elisa Flores done up in the skimpiest Terran Empire Uniform possible. And of course my Cardassian Tactical Officer is wearing the closest thing I can make to Cardassian uniform.

>>53302131
>Mirror Flores

Superlative taste, anon.

>>53300480
>I mean...so did Spock, at least from Vulcans.
When? We only really see his interactions with his father, which are tense because of family shit, not necessarily half-blood related ones, and then in the movies it's all about him having his greenblood Bar Mitzvah, dying, resurrecting, and then being space Reagan (Mr. Gorkon, TEAR DOWN THIS PRAXIS!).

>>53301304
I can now think of nothing beyond Jellico's nickname for his penis, and his exploits therewith.

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>>53302687
>Cpt Jellico cucking Cardassian Guls during the wars.

>>53302707

>They took away my children, so I'll use them to make some more

>>53302724
You're thinking of Maxwell. To my knowledge, Jellico had no kids.

>>53303046
He has a son if I remember correctly. He showed off a picture drawn by his kid at some point.

>>53301438
>Enterprise took a complete and thorough shit on continuity

It did two things that didn't match up to continuity: it had viewscreens, and the Romulans have cloaking devices. Nothing else violates the existing canon in any way. And given that the most logical explenation for Future Guy from a story perspective was that he was a Romulan trying to fuck with the way the Earth-Romulan War played out, the Romulans being more advanced than they should have been makes sense.

So that just leaves us with Earth having viewscreens, which "Balance of Terror" establishes that neither Humans nor Romulans should have had...despite us having "viewscreen technology" since the 1930s (the Nazis set up some primitive video phone systems, no joke).

So I can forgive that breach of canon.

What else was violated?

> from the way they shoehorned the Borg to the Ferengi

Oh, come on, one episode apiece.

>and Klingons

Nope. No canon defilement here at any point, particularly since DS9 "Trials and Tribble-ations" established that the smooth-forehead Klingons was only a period of Klingon history, not all of Klingon history prior to the TOS movies. We didn't know when it began, and while giving it a start and tying it into the Augments might not necessarily be the best explanation to give, the explanation doesn't violate canon.

>>53302588
>When?

TAS "Yesteryear".

(You will note that startrek.com no longer has a line to the effect of "only live-action TV shows and movies are canon", which did for a long time but removed years ago. These days TAS is broadly as canonical as TOS. Indeed, Memory Alpha itself treats TAS information as canonical now as long as it doesn't specifically contradict live-action stuff)

(Oh, also, Robert Orci, writer of the 2009 Star Trek, maintained that Nero's interference did not meaningfully affect Spock's backstory, so the childhood from that movie plus his declining to join the Vulcan Science Academy would be broadly the same in both timelines)

>>53303835
On a side note, I really like how the Borg were handled in ENT. They were threatening for the first time in ages and it was quite refreshing.

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>>53301633
ST:AIDS is retconning Klingons to be offshoots of the Ligonians.

>>53303967

I liked how Phlox handled them.

>>53301633

>MFW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRSMshdQ0Pk

>>53301607
>Voyager already fucked up way worse

i mean

it straight up stole Travis from Galaxy Quest

>>53304364
Aside from being black helmsmen, the two aren't anything alike.

>>53303967
the Borg never seemed like a non-credible threat in Voyager, they just had that boring civil war that apparently lasted about as long as Hugh and Lore's faction

if anything the Borg were never a credible threat after Hugh until First Contact, which established them as absolute madmen, and while i'm not always a fan of introducing the Queen just because it's a Borg episode, she does add a level of menace and give something for the protagonists to bounce off

Seven... i could take or leave Seven, to be honest, but at least she wasn't Kes

>>53304425
>child pilot
>can't act
>drives the ship with a joystick
>still can't act

>>53297380
>certain people involved really fucking love the subject matter
>be bad in a way where you can tell that it is still trying to be good; rather than just a soulless husk
Could we just, like, forward this to Paramount please?

>>53298119
Honestly, my reaction here is the same as it was to JJTrek: it looks fun, entertaining even, if you just take it as yet another generic US sci-fi flick. But it is in no way, shape or form Star Trek (and in Discovery's case, even worthy of the name). And I didn't even say that about VOY or ENT, either.

>>53304436
>she does add a level of menace and give something for the protagonists to bounce off

I agree that the Queen was a good idea for the purposes of a movie, but she's a terrible choice for the Borg overall, particularly seeing as the Queen was shown to have an ego and foibles and such. It "humanized" the Borg, which is exactly the wrong thing to do.

>>53300549
That's not pandering though - the TOS crew were just ordinary people crewing a starship, and there was no big deal made about it. Sure, out-of-universe it was incredibly ridiculous, but in the show itself it was never OH LOOK HOW PROGRESSIVE WE ARE GUYS!!1!1ELEVEN!

>>53303835
I really am not sure why you're on about viewscreens as a thing... Lack of visual communication with the Romulans more likely just means they refused all attempts at contact and humans didn't have the tech to intercept their communications as they did when Kirk was around.

Same thing as Romulan's 'simple impulse' propulsion just being they're running on fusion reactors or can't fight at warp speeds rather than they don't have warp drive.

Not having viewscreens makes no fucking sense in the first place.

>>53300905
>>53301088
>>53301185
>Given the way most Hollywood product is currently produced

Honestly, that was probably one of Trek's strongest suits historically - the fact that, with a few exceptions (most notably Sisko and Chakotay), there was never a big deal made of the diversity in crews or at least senior staff -
they're just starfleet personnel that happen to be black/oriental/andorian dickgirls. JJTrek managed to carry on the trend pretty well for modern hollywood (although in fairness, it didn't try and be deep or profound every 20 minutes), but Discovery just feels too forced. Like, at the risk of sounding MRA as fuck, would either of the new trailers pass a reversed version of the Bechdel test?

>>53303967
This desu, the whole "they are so far beyond us that it's fucking terrifying" thing was great, it's just a shame they needed a massive step backwards in powerlevels to do it.

>>53304916
I can't see how Discovery feels forced when there's been absolutely nothing in the trailers to suggest it. They're just characters and the only thing related to IRL race or gender has been shoving the Chinese captain in the Chinese ship. Like if it comes out and it's actually pandering the way Voyager was then fine, but stop making shit up when all we have to go on is just one trailer.

>>53304763
>I really am not sure why you're on about viewscreens as a thing

I was actually rather specifically NOT about it, if you'd care to give my post a second read-through.

It's just the only real canon violation that I know of in Enterprise that can't be explained by "Future Guy trying to fuck with the Earth-Romulan War because Future Guy is a Romulan", but as the actual canon in that instance is stupid, I don't mind Enterprise breaking it.

>>53304916
>it's just a shame they needed a massive step backwards in powerlevels to do it.

In fairness, it was only two Borg drones (to start), who were working with technology that was about as useful to them as a sword and shield would have been. Even the Borg are limited by the tools available to them, at least until they can construct better tools, which they were gradually doing throughout the episode.

>>53305121
Not him, but
>would either of the new trailers pass a reversed version of the Bechdel test
Literally all dialogue there's been in the trailers is the chinese captain, the stale "child of two worlds" memery and single lines from random crew. If it were the other way around with men, you'd have all four corners of the internet autistically screeching about soggy knees

>>53305324
Yeah, it's almost like the captain and first officer are supposed to be important to the show's premise or something like that. Who gives a shit about retards bitching? Stop inventing retarded excuses to whine.

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>>53305324
You're looking for things to be triggered by. It says more about you that two women discussing exploration and commanding starships somehow seems like a "forced agenda" whereas if it were two men discusing the exact same thing, you wouldn't bat an eye.

>>53305324
>If it were the other way around with men, you'd have all four corners of the internet autistically screeching about soggy knees

No we wouldn't. I know because we had that exact situation with JJTrek (two men discussing their futures) and fucking no one complained about that, let alone "all four corners of the internet" you stupid redditor.

Anyone here play Star Trek Timelines?
I just started playing yesterday and wondering if it'd be possible for me to get the Borg Queen from this event or if the difficulty ramps up too high for a newbie to get enough points in time?

>>53305896
>if the difficulty ramps up too high for a newbie to get enough points in time?
I'm not sure the points requirements, but it's almost certainly impossible if you just started yesterday. Game fools you into thinking you can just use the free stuff and succeed, but you will quickly learn you need fully uncapped lvl 90+ guys to get anywhere. That goes double if it's a shuttle event, which it sounds like from your description. The difficulty increases exponentially, it seems.

>>53307111
Pioneer-class a cute!

CUTE!

And people say that Cryptic's designs suck. They did a great job with each of their TOS ships, I think.

>>53307090
Thanks.
Yeah, it's a shuttle event and the Borg Queen is the 22,500 point reward.

>>53307145
They did well with a few designs. Particularly their Romulan ones.

>>53300808
Have you seen ANYTHING about modern television that has shown taste, restraint, and class that wasn't completely ignored or lambasted by the media as being complete bullshit?

Temperance and good storytelling has taken a back seat to politics and moral degeneracy. Welcome to the modern world.

>>53307879
>politicising art is new concept

Sure thing, mate.

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>>53307879
>moral degeneracy

lel.

>>53307879
>moral degeneracy

I can't believe that anyone who watches Star Trek can honestly use this term. Like, saying that something is "pandering" is one thing, but "moral degeneracy"? Seriously?

>>53307263
Got anything of it nearer a sun?

>>53305436
It's not an invention. It's an educated guess based on observed trends in media.

>>53305597
You've missed his point to an amazing degree.

>>53308152
Newsflash: not just pinkos can like Star Trek.

>>53308784
TOS was fairly well anti-pinko, even.

>>53305436
>>53305597
>what even are ensemble casts

>>53308784
Sure, but expecting Star Trek to not try and push boundaries or getting upset when it does is just plain weird.

Like I said, it's one thing to be upset with the reason - "pandering' rather than out of a real desire to examine the issue - but as someone upthread said, it's the wrong hill to die on to object to it happening at all.

Given that Star Trek has always used "exploration" as a stand-in for "confronting modern issues through a sci-fi veneer", it'd be weird if a modern Star Trek didn't address things like Black Lives Matter, LGBTQ stuff, Donald Trump and the general right-swing of modern politics, religious terrorism, and so on.

>>53309133
I guess the crux of the issue perhaps is worrying that said sci-fi veneer might be too thinly applied?

>>53309133
Last episode of TOS was to reinforce the belief that women can't command. I think it was a Roddenberry episode.

>>53309403
It's also considered a fairly *crap* episode, IIRC. Come to think of it a lot of the times in TOS where the political message was a bit too blatant it resulted in episodes most fans consider subpar. Except for a few which were just over the top and hilarious, like the Nazi episode.

>>53309063
The captain has always been the most important part of any Trek cast, and they've been upfront that the first officer in Discovery is the focus character this time around. So that's the two most important characters. The trailer is supposed to sum up the most important parts of the story, so you're not going to get two random junior officers chatting about irrelevant shit in the trailer. Like if someone made a two minute trailer leading up to the start of DS9, it'd focus on Sisko and Kira and retards would whine about SJW pandering.

Are we going to get episodes focusing on Helmsman White Male or Weird Alien #431? Absolutely, just like we did every other series. But it's not going to be the central focus on the series as a whole, therefore it's not relevant to the trailer.

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>>53309433
Ekosian ships in lock box when?

>>53309485
Isn't Michelle Yeoh's character supposed to be the captain of a completely different ship? The USS Shenzhou or something?

Does this general cover Starfleet Battles and it's offshoots or is that topic covered elsewhere?

>>53309573
Judging by the trailer it seems like the early part of the show is going to be on the Shenzhou, with it moving to the Discovery later on.

>>53309588
We are on /tg/ so I don't see why not.

>>53309485
Oh shut the fuck up with this. People aren't bitching because there are women in it, or that they're non-white. People are bitching because of what DIS might *do* with this.

>But you haven't seen the show yet!

Again, educated guess based on observed trends. It could be wrong. I fucking *hope* it's wrong. But it's not a baseless fear.

>>53309133
>Implying they'll touch religious terrorism with a ten-foot pole
>Implying the major arc that runs through the series won't be about opposing Human Ethno-Nationalists with too much political power.

It's 2017 Anon

>>53309655
DS9's main cast consisted of exactly one white male, and he was a non-com outranked by everyone else and in an interracial marriage. Stop spouting your "hurr observed trends" bullcrap because it's literally just shit pulled from your ass. What have we seriously seen in the trailer so far? Absolutely nothing that's based on the IRL racial and sexual makeup of the cast.

>>53309748
>Stop spouting your "hurr observed trends" bullcrap because it's literally just shit pulled from your ass
>I am completely unaware of the existence of media outside of Star Trek

Seriously, just fucking stop if you insist on meeting reasonable arguments with pointing a finger and screeching "RACIST! SEXIST!" in the loudest, shrillest voice you can muster.

>>53309655
>People aren't bitching because there are women in it, or that they're non-white.

Er...yes they are. Not everyone sure, but it's a been a source of a much butthurt on /tvpol/

>>53309748
>DS9's main cast consisted of exactly one white male, and he was a non-com outranked by everyone else and in an interracial marriage

Yes, and that worked because they *never dwelt on it and actually showed him as a competent, respectable man despite his technically low position*. It remains to be seen whether DIS will be able to put its story and characters ahead of meta statements like that.

>>53309806
I've seen them complain that this will end up being the most important character of their characters. Which based on current media trends is likely.

>>53309185
Anon, you are aware that The One About The Fall Of The Soviet Union was one of the best Trek films?

>>53309748
DS9 was 20 years ago, and everything has become a LOT more pander-y since then

>>53309782
Pulling diarrhea from your ass is not a reasonable argument, nor is putting up irrelevant strawmen.

There are plenty of legitimate criticisms for what we've seen from Discovery so far. It really doesn't look like it'll be all that good. But those are legitimate and reasonable criticisms. Whining about muh liberal SJW boogeyman when we've seen zero indication yet that it'll be an issue is not reasonable.

>>53309806
If people seriously are *only* butthurt because of that, then they are legitimately goddamn idiots, sure. But then, /pol/, so I guess expecting anything else would be just as stupid?

>>53309863
I am, but even then? You could still separate the plot from its real world parallel and just enjoy it as a good story on its own merit, without thinking about the Soviet Union.

>>53309886

>Ghostbusters
>Mass Effect Andromeda
>All of Marvel Comics post-2015
>New Star Wars can be debated

Tell me again how the SJW problem is unfounded.

>>53309886
>Pulling diarrhea from your ass is not a reasonable argument, nor is putting up irrelevant strawmen.

Evidence and trends that don't support your argument are not "irrelevant strawmen", anon.

>>53309952
Wow, a whole four examples, half of which have literally nothing to do with what you're referring to.

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>>53310004
>half of which have literally nothing to do with what you're referring to.

Are you fucking serious.

>>53310027
Don't concern yourself Anon is lost.

>>53310004
what the everloving fuck do you think he's referring to, anon?

>>53309806
Don't forget anon, every complaint against Ghostbusters was due to sexism.

Anybody else wish the fights throughout the series where a bit more hard hitting and kinetic? I've been watching DS9 and Worf fighting the Jemhadar is cool, I just wish the fighting was a bit more. . . punchy for lack of a better word.

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>>53309433

GILL DID NOTHING WRONG

>>53310101
That and it being shit.

>>53310113
Limitation of way they filmed it. Trek hand-to-hand has always been a tad corny. The patented Starfleet hand-axe being the worst example.

>>53310146
No, no, no anon. That can't have been the reason because it had female protagonists. If it has female protagonists any hate means it's at least partially based on sexism.

>>53310140
I don't care how brief it was, it had to have made some suits shit bricks to see Kirk throw out a fucking Nazi salute.

>>53310182
My Trekkie friends and I always referred to that as "Kirkpunching".

>>53310113
Fight choreography has improved almost as rapidly as CGI has. It's just a symptom of them being old teevee that is dated in some areas. Learn to love the double-fist punches.

Plus Star Trek has never been fight-orientated enough to have a top-quality fight choreographer on the payroll.

>>53310140
the three of them really do look fucking good in those uniforms too.

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>>53310219
I'm gonna admit it.

I wish the folding katana from Abramstrek was also a thing in prime canon

>>53310185
>FUCKING WOMYN RUINING MUH GHOSTBUSTERS WITH THEIR VAGINES!!!

Sexism

>This is a shit movie because it's an unimaginative retread of the original with tired jokes

Not sexism.

Same way people have managed to shit all over Sexually Treksmitted for everything from lens flare to ship design, and even being too pleased with itself over it's diverse casting, without joining the ranks of the butthurt /pol/lacks screeching about how a trailer focusing on two non-white women is literally promoting genocide against whites.

>>53310285
>Not sexism.

But was called sexism by a lot of the movie's defenders, that's the problem.

>>53310256
I was disgusted they gave him a katana instead of a rapier.

Sulu does fencing not kendo, I always thought that was a good way to show the global culture Earth has developed, when Sulu goes nuts, he starts acting out his 17th century Italian swashbuckler fantasy, not 'hurrr I am samurai' just because of his ancestry.

>>53310347
>17th century Italian swashbuckler sulu
fund it

>>53310307
They're deluded spastics, there's no problem.

Same with STD. Anyone with a braincell can see the difference between people upset over stuff like ship design and people upset because the bridge crew only had one token white in it.

If they can't, it's their problem, the existence of the latter doesn't make the former less valid.

>>53309741
>>implying that the Bajorens weren't space muslims whereas the Cardassians were space identarians.

And DS9 killed the series again.

>>53310347
Well, here's what, at least IMHO, makes it really funny.

George Takei was no-shit legit Japanese. He didn't want to be pigeonholed by this, so he worked things out to where he'd be a *rapier* enthusiast rather than being into Japanese swordsmanship or martial arts (though I will point out that in Day of the Dove he *does* get a katana briefly).

John Cho, however...is not Japanese-descended. He's of *Korean* descent, IIRC. So *him* using a katana technically is ALSO a mild subversion.

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>>53309588
SFB would be a welcome change to actually on-topic for /tg/ discussion.

>>53309952
Ghostbusters is the only example you provided of something being ruined because of "the SJW problem"

Andromeda would've turned out the exact same way if literally everyone working on it was a white man. The problems were corporate executives at EA wanting to beat more money out of the Mass Effect cow while providing a shoestring budget. SJWs had nothing to do with it.

Marvel Comics is equal opportunity SJW pandering and anti-SJW pandering depending on what they think will give them money, and it all-around incompetent management as a whole. Note that said management consists primarily of Republican-leaning white men.

Star Wars isn't even ruined and there is no SJW pandering, get the fuck out.

>>53310388
>They're deluded spastics, there's no problem.

Eh, I just don't like the idea that it's not problematic to trot out those kinds of accusations as a perfect defense against criticism of media with certain kinds of casts.

>>53310429
Star Wars is the only one I really agree with you on so far. Rey is way less grrl powerrr than it can seem at first.

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>>53310415
Good point. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and say it was just a katana because katanas are the default 'cool movie sword'. Whites and blacks etc etc have been given katanas for no reason in various movies too.

Still missed opportunity to do something different though, Sulu dueling a Romulan miner with a fencing stance would have been a cool nod to TOS.

>>53310441
Problematic sure, but I'm not going to swing to the other extreme and start with the whole 'anything with non-whites/women in it is only doing it so they can play the race card if the show is shit' thing.

Star Trek has always tried to have diverse casts, because that's the vision of the future it portrays. The Sexually Treksmitted showrunners trying to hype up the whole 'omg everyone pat us on the back we cast a black female lead!' was patronising as fuck and dumb, but that's producers/execs being two-dimensional corporate automata, nothing new there. Every Trek since TOS has done the same thing.

Doesn't automatically make the show or the casting a weapon in The Culture War™, just means Corporate Sock Puppet #14436 was chasing the tumblr audience by trying to hype something that has existed in Trek since '66 as though it was something new and daring.

>>53310536
nuSulu did say he trained in fencing. It wouldn't surprise me if fold-out katanas were a standard-issue Starfleet melee weapon since they'd be compact and easy to use in tight quarters, instead of it being something Sulu has lying around.

>>53310632
>Problematic sure, but I'm not going to swing to the other extreme and start with the whole 'anything with non-whites/women in it is only doing it so they can play the race card if the show is shit' thing.

Sure, but I don't find it unreasonable to be worried about the possibility, on top of all the other problems the show is looking to have.

>>53298703
Sounds good to me mang

>>53310536
>husbando and daughter kidnapped by romulans becase that's just what happens of spouses of starfleet officers
>JJTrek sulu going ham on romulans with a rapier because muh dampening field.
>knocked on his butt and a bad guy goes in for the kill
>oh no!
>bad guy suddenly stabbed through the gut and thrown aside, Its scotty!
>"what the hell was that?!"
>"Oh, that? That there's a scottish claymore laddie. Now come on, lets go find ye little girl."

>>53310643
>Oh no the rubberforeheadian's super duper quasi-babble energy field has rendered our phasers inoperative. What ever shall we do?
>MAKE THEM WISH WE STILL HAD PHASERS! AIN'T NO STUN SETTING ON THIS RIB TICKLER!

>>53310727
That reminds me of that one episode of DS9 where Worf and Dax had to go after some alien criminal in a place that nullified phasers so melee weapons were the order of the day.

>>53310643
>fold-out katanas were a standard-issue Starfleet melee weapon

God I hope so.

>>53310767
Y'know where I wish you could get them? STO. Would be way more fun than yet more bat'leths.

>>53310784
Swords already exist in STO so the only thing they'd need to do is make a fold-out animation for when you switch to them.

>>53310825
why the hell did I just imagine your character pulling out a Katana and folding it 10000 times

>>53310742
And given ho often there are "dampening fields" and how easy they seem to be to make it's a wonder that this shit doesn't happen more often.

If I were Worf I would be carrying a portable dampening field generator because now Space Pirates have to fight Worf, first place winner of the Forcas III Bat'leth Tournament, at his favorite game. They would be picking up Nausicaan chunks for days.

>>53310416
>on-topic for /tg/ discussion.
On /stg/? Where the fuck do you think we are?

>>53310429
>>53310489
Rey is still a disgusting mary sue, but for overall character reasons rather than pandering reasons. As in, she'd still be just as much of one if it was a guy.

>>53310861
first, aren't you sure it was 3rd?
:v)

>>53310881
>As in, she'd still be just as much of one if it was a guy.

Basically, yeah.

>>53310846
>pulling out a Katana and folding it 10000 times
my fucking sides

The thing I remember about the folding katana was how many people *loudly* insisted it wasn't actually a katana, but a saber. Despite having a kissaki, a long handled grip, and Sulu wielding it like a goddamn ninja rather than a Napoleonic officer.

>>53310719
I would quite happily watch that. And it's goofy enough that I might someday watch that.

>>53311029
>Sulu wielding it like a goddamn ninja rather than a Napoleonic officer.

This. He does backflips and all sorts. That isn't fencing unless the definition has changed dramatically by the 23rd century.

>>53311135
Honestly, I would've liked it even better if instead of the ninja shit his moves were closer to actual Japanese swordsmanship.

>>53311135
Ultimately though who, besides /k/ autists, gives that much of a shit?

It a dude on a giant space drill fighting Dark Elves in space. You hold one end and hit a the other fucker with the pointy end. Beyond that who really gives a shit?

>>53310347
Just remember in "The Balance of Terror" when they where actually fighting the Klingons with swords, Sulu had a Katana.

>>53311183
>Beyond that who really gives a shit?

I only really give a shit because I find nods to realism actually cooler than Hollywood stunt fighting. Same reason why the 1973 Three Musketeers flicks are still the high watermark for fight scene quality among its many adaptations.

>>53310742
Actaly, it was Dax, Kang, Koloth and the other og Klingon. Funnily enough Worf prefers the (much more realistic) Mek'leth sword.

>>53311229

Day of the Dove anon. Balance of Terror is the first appearance of the Romulans.

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>>53311262

The "other" og Klingon is Kor anon. Pic related.

>>53311265
D'oh. Still a good title for that episode. . .

>>53311297

TOS had some great titles to its stories.

>>53311276
"Don't fuck with the Dahar Master, son."

>>53303835
>writer of the 2009 Star Trek

That is not a valid source. That poor man is either insane, mentally handicapped to the point he needs help holding the pen to write with, or was overridden on his own writing project so much that his title is LITERALLY a sarcastic insult.

>>53307145
If you don't think that Ranger is the hottest bitch in space, then you need to get the fuck out of my face with your lame shit.

>>53311956
The moment that they bring out a T6 Pioneer you know Ranger is getting assigned to garbage hauling duty.

>>53310881
>>53310901
>As in, she'd still be just as much of one if it was a guy.

The only difference is no one would care. "Gary Stus" are almost never pointed out because overly skilled/overpowered men are easier to believe than overly skilled/overpowered women. Also Mary Sues are writer self-inserts.

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>>53308495
>It's not an invention. It's an educated guess based on observed trends in media.

It's anything but educated. You're exaggerated a very circumstantial and sparse "trend" while ignoring much more common ones. Like how white men/black women are the second most common interracial pairing in media.

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>>53312077
...behind white men/Asian women.

>>53310244
Of course not. Just because the Nazis are morally reprehensible by every first world standard, doesn't mean Hugo Boss's shit wasn't TIGHT as FUCK.

>>53312077
>You're exaggerated a very circumstantial and sparse "trend" while ignoring much more common ones

It's neither circumstantial nor sparse. It's a very well-established and common trend.

>>53310825
Hell, they even already have THAT. Look at the Terran Rep Bat'leth.

In STO is there any advantage to buying the c-store version of a ship before the fleet version, or should I just shoot straight for the Fleet Advanced Light Cruiser instead?

>>53312077
>>53312097
>>53312170
both of you shut the fuck up

nobody cares anymore

post green women

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>>53312209
>post green women

>>53312014
Bitch, I will cut you. I won't say anything bad about the Pioneer (I can't, she a cute.), but Ranger is the hotness of the Columbia class with all the TOS smooooooth.

>>53312170
It's so common that you couldn't even list examples without having to pull from media outside television or movies. And even then you didn't list what they have in common with your bullshit conspiracy theory. Even if I asked you now to list specific examples from those media, you couldn't.

>>53312205
Buying the C-store version gets you the trait (fleet version only has 4 mastery levels, no trait), the console, and if you have the C-store one unlocked, it makes the fleet one only cost 1 fleet module, instead of 5.

>>53312285
Dude, I'm not here to spoonfeed you. You were pointed in the correct direction; whether or not you choose to follow up is no longer something I'm overly concerned about.

>>53312265
Ranger is only good because Pioneer isn't T6.

Any man that captains a Ranger is only wishing he could captain a Pioneer.

Or he's some mirror universe duplicate from the faggot universe.

>>53312325
>I'm not here to defend my arguments. I'm just here to make unfounded assumptions and then be a coward when challenged on them.

That's all you had to say.

>>53294256
Lot of Star trek fans committing suicide over the Discovery trailer. First Chris Cornell, then Roger Ailes.

Bad times.

>>53312377
>I demand everybody explain things in exacting detail to me because doing my own research is hard.

That's all you had to say.

>>53312265
>>53312346
Whole lotta not mentioning the Gemini class going on here.

>>53312401
>someone actually does the research
>it proves your assumptions invalid
>"Dude I'm not here to spoonfeed you on the reasoning behind my irrational and emotion-fueled arguments"

That's all you had to say.

>>53309655
>It could be wrong. I fucking *hope* it's wrong.
Rest easy then, because you are wrong and you've always been wrong. Your hopes have been vindicated.

>>53312445
This isn't to see what the ugliest ship is.

It's the only 23c ship to rival the 26c ships in terms of looking shit.

SHIT!

Bawwww. Why aren't white middle class straight dudes the main characters any more?
It's hard to concentrate with all these flapping titties and queens in the way. Gets me super confused.

And they're all fucking whiney snowflakes too.

Not like me. I never whine.

Nope.

>>53312456
Nobody DID the research. They just spouted paper-thin counterarguments that boiled down to "n-no they're not relevant or related".

You want examples, you lazy cunt? Fine, I'll give you two.

Firstly, and worstly, Black Human Torch in Fant4stic. I apologize to everybody who has now been reminded of the existence of that shitty film. Absolutely no reason for this but filling a diversity quota, plus the movie itself was garbage on other demerits.

The other is the new DC Rebirth Green Lanterns, where we have a Lebanese-American man teamed with a Hispanic woman, but this isn't AS egregious because, so far, the writing has been pretty solid. But it's still essentially pointedly diverse for the sake of being so.

>>53312522
Now I kind of feel like it's my turn to point out that you haven't seen the series yet.

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>>53312557
White dude is still the captain of the Discovery so literally the only complaint is that the narrative focus is on the black woman whose backstory is that she's a full human who lived among Vulcans. That's too much "forced progressive agenda-pushing" apparently.

>>53312557
>Bawwww. Why can't the media let characters of non-white non-male non-heterosexual persuasion just be characters instead of political standins anymore?

ftfy

>>53312616
You're really a disingenuous little shitlord, you know that?

>>53312575
>writing has been pretty solid

So diversity isn't justified even when the writing is solid. /pol/ really did a number on you, didn't it? Nice of you by the way to ignore that white male leads are still overwhelming majority. Hell I couldn't point you to the MCU movies where only ONE lead (Black Panther) is actually NOT a white male. But I guess that's already too much forced diversity for you.

>>53312647
To unreasonable and overly emotional whiners, I can see how I might seem that way. Just know that to me, you're lower than garbage. You're literally a waste of this world's finite resources.

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>>53312685
>So diversity isn't justified even when the writing is solid

Not what I said, not even remotely. But please, continue to argue disingenuously, you seem to be very fond of it.

>Nice of you by the way to ignore that white male leads are still overwhelming majority

Not relevant; movies can be shit with white male leads too and nobody outside of stormfags holds up a white male lead as anything especially desirable or notable.

>Hell I couldn't point you to the MCU movies where only ONE lead (Black Panther) is actually NOT a white male. But I guess that's already too much forced diversity for you.

Black Panther is the fucking king of an African country, right from the comics. HIM being black is exactly on. *Johnny Storm* being black is silly as hell.

>>53312377
Anon, this man! He is made out of straw!

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>>53312728
>I can see how I might seem that way. Just know that to me, you're lower than garbage. You're literally a waste of this world's finite resources.

lol ok son

>>53312647
>shitlord
SJW redditor detected. You need to go back.

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>>53312728

>>53312758
>nobody outside of stormfags

But that's what you are, just so we're clear. You don't have to pretend you're not, at least own it.

>>53312532
I'll forgive you for your bad taste, you 2-nacelle pleb.

>>53312813
Anon, there's nowhere near enough mention of goyims or nignogs in this thread for him to be a stormfag. He's just a robot who thinks that every female character with a role more important than Janice Rand is a fucking undercover tumblr conspiracy

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>>53312813
And there it is. It always circles back to "no, you're just racist/sexist/anti-trans/etc..."

>>53312780
>>53312798
>b-better start pulling out the reaction folder

kek

>>53312850
>someone points it out
>so it must be false

Interesting defense mechanism.

>>53312616
I'm actually really interested to see Isaac's captain.

>>53312836
>He's just a robot who thinks that every female character with a role more important than Janice Rand is a fucking undercover tumblr conspiracy

And the other guy is a white knight who thinks that any concern about the reasons behind high casting decisions for female or non-white actors can only be because of racism or sexism. ...And also that 4chan, of all places, is where he wants to do his virtue signaling, which is a riot in itself.

>>53312892
>someone trots out a tired old defense
>gets called on it

>>53312909
It is very different that the lead character of DIS *isn't* the captain this time.

>can't use the Saratoga sensor pod/phaser cannon extra bits with the Miranda rollbar
Damn, I was hoping we'd be able to go for a fully equipped look. It's nice to have the option at least.

>>53312616
>White dude is still the captain of the Discovery
That was an incredible tone-deaf decision by CBS.

They also could have made one of the major players in the ensemble a white dude and let the captain be an alien woman. That would have been a first.

>>53313136
Pretty interesting. I would've made *Burnham* the captain, honestly, rather than the XO. It just seems like it'd be easier to do that way.

>>53313180
Nah, you can't have a black female starship captain. That show would be dead six episodes in, even if they got someone like Taraji P. Henson who can actually carry a show.

The whole thing sounds like it's been bungled. I mean, we know it has, with the ever-shrinking release dates. But it sounds like it has far more serious structural problems.

Plus there's the whole paywall problem. It's like they don't even know who the Star Trek audience is: nerds who know how to torrent.

>>53312912
>rationally deconstruct why all the shitstorming over two women in a Star Trek trailer is being completely overblown
>omg all these virtue-signaling SJWs in muh sekrit clubhouse

>>53313218
Eh, if you did her character well enough, it could be done I think.

Granted, I'm not totally sure in this case it will be, but I think the theory's not unsound.

>>53313233
The "rational deconstructions" were, themselves, thoroughly deconstructed.

>>53313136
>>53313180
>it can be a female captain as long as the focus is the white male
In an attempt to accuse others of tone-deafness you're being remarkably tone-deaf yourselves.

>>53313259
>as long as the focus is the white male

Kindly point to where I said, or even suggested, that. I'll wait.

>>53313257
No, your mad ramblings were throughly deconstructed so the only way you can try to get out of this with your head held high is by trying to claim the rational high ground, of which you never had. It's a classic mainstay of people who try to whip up mob mentality based on fear and ignorance. You tried to put yourself on an untouchable pedestal and when someone points out you're being unreasonable, you immediately try to crucify them.

>>53313269
You just said you wanted the white captain to be the focus in keeping with "tradition."

>>53313244
It's not about the character being written well enough (which is a problem Star Trek has a lot, I admit), but you also need an actor who can carry the role. It's sounding like they feel like they don't, and made a bunch of other questionable decisions on the ensemble surrounding her.

>>53313259
Haha wow, I knew there'd be one of you.

Stop and consider that the key demographic of Star Trek fans is white men. Without white men, this show will fail. But that doesn't mean cast the white male as the captain of the starship; that's tone deaf on a different axis -- if you're promoting a heavily diverse crew, putting them all under a white man just reaffirms extant paradigms, it doesn't demonstrate a new one.

You don't want the focus of the show to be on the white man, and by making one of the other officers a white man and making the captain an alien, you provide the key audience with a character they can identify with who isn't in a dominant position over the rest of the "lessers." (Implied and explicit in this case, awkwardly.)

So fuck right off.

>>53312912
>And also that 4chan, of all places, is where he wants to do his virtue signaling, which is a riot in itself.
The one virtue-signaling is the guy getting upset that a white lead wasn't in the trailer. It's the most virtue signaling white-knighting possible.

>>53309741
>literally what is bajor

>>53313325
>It's sounding like they feel like they don't

Based on what? Trek casts have always been ensembles.

>>53313298
Dude. Breathe.

I know it's very tempting to cling to the belief that there's never anything behind these kinds of concerns but racism and irrationality. But I assure you it is not the case. My concerns are not rooted in what you think they are. The issue is not how highly placed Burnham is, or what her damned skin color is. It's what the writers might do with those facts to the detriment of the story.

Yes, I know you don't believe it. You don't want to believe it. You're invested too much to believe it. But it's true.

>>53313323
...Burnham is Soniqua Martin-Green's character.

>>53313356
>The one virtue-signaling is the guy getting upset that a white lead wasn't in the trailer

But nobody was.

>>53313325
>Stop and consider that the key demographic of Star Trek fans is white men. Without white men, this show will fail.

And there it is. I knew you'd show your true agenda sooner or later. :)

Nice of you to admit that white men have trouble relating to nonwhite women, even though nonwhite/female viewers have had no issues relating to previous installments featuring white male leads.

By the way, this is the part where you point out that white males are default humans by any objective metric and so of course they should lead every Trek show.

>>53313428
Way to only read half his damn argument. But that's probably the point, isn't it?

>>53313423
ctrl-f observant trends

That was the guy who started all the white virtue signaling.

>>53313443
You mean the whole argument. And way to completely dismiss anyone who disagrees with you as "the other" so you never have to consider you're talking to another human being.

Because you know, that might mean actually having to consider perspectives other than your own.