Faction Focus: Dark Eldar

>>53289024
All it seems to do is make them somewhat better as a tarpit.

I was kind of hoping they would get more ways to dodge things now that to-hit penalties are a thing. Would have been neat if they just gave everyone within 12" -2 to hit them, whether with shooting or melee, as they just weave through everything.

>>53289024

Drukhari.

No, there's no stat bonuses to roll off so it's not reliable even though you win the tie.

I don't play DE, but nothing is really making me jizz my pants or making me absolutely terrified of them.

File: Waiting for OP.gif (464KB, 500x338px) Image search: [Google]

464KB, 500x338px

>>53289024
I'm just hoping the No Escape thing isn't it for them. If it is, they'll still get mowed the fuck down before they can charge like usual

>tfw waiting for my 6 units of Wyches to be relevant again

I like the new Disintegrator statline, just as effective vs terminators but better vs everything else.

>>53289024
>I refuse to use that stupid name edition:
Dude, Drukhari is a pretty cool name. It's better than some of the renames fantasy got.

Duardin is decent, but I still have a hard time saying 'orruks'

>>53289024
>wyches only have a 4++ in the fight phase again
>literally have the same weakness to overwatch except flamers are even more deadly
>only buff is that they can MAYBE prevent a unit from leaving combat

Confirmed for dog shit

Fuck Dark Eldar and their gay ass poisons.

T. Tyranids

File: 1495005638198.jpg (450KB, 757x1200px) Image search: [Google]

450KB, 757x1200px

You should've joined the Ynnari for the hips!

File: e458393cd9f04ce946d78fe74568450f.jpg (265KB, 1024x1414px) Image search: [Google]

265KB, 1024x1414px

>>53289730
But anon...

>>53289843
Well you see Ynnari get both Dark and Craftworld Eldar best of both worlds!

>>53289730
>I literally don't know what a bustle is
>MAN THOSE VICTORIAN LADIES MUST HAVE HAD HUGE ASSES

So dumb
Why live

>>53289730
>>53289843
Don't fall in love, man. She's only going to tear your heart out literally.

>>53289024
DE will always be a joke probably. Squishy unless you roll good! (But only in certain phases!)
Gonna go back to my kroot-heavy T'au™

File: good-good-give-into-your-anger.jpg (40KB, 553x401px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 553x401px

>>53290180

>>53290180
The model actually has a pretty big ass without the bustle.

>>53289325
Remember that flamers have AP0 which allows them to take their 6+ save. It's not much but it's better then before.

>>53289091
Raiders and venoms being able to protect your units and not having to worry about flamers killing your guys inside seems like a huge improvement to me.

>>53290909

It's another buff to shooting units in the edition where melee is supposed to be king.

>>53291267
>melee is supposed to be king
But that was never the idea, just that it's viable. Nothing is supposed to be king.

>>53291267
>>53290909

I think a big factor is gonna be how cover ends up working. Say you can get a +2 to your armor save from hard cover. Position your wyches in that before you charge and you've got a 4+ save against the flamers or any other small arms.

In general, I think hit modifiers and cover save bonuses could potentially make things a lot more durable against shooting. Combine that with the fact that it's also a lot harder to wound on a 2+, and shooting might just not be as viable as wiping squads of the table.

In addition, WS being a set value to roll means Wyches getting the charge will be landing more hits, and then with some actual AP can kill things more effectively than guns trying to plink at them in cover.

>no info on power from the pain
one job

>>53291267
Melee combat is supposed to be viable, not dominant. It should be a tool, not the end all answer to everything.

From the rules released so far, I'd say the biggest advantage of melee over ranged is the fact that cover now is a +1 sv. Unless you are planning to bring anti tank to deal with units hiding in cover, most units that hug cover should be pretty hard to remove with small arms since even wyches get 5+ sv in cover and space marines get 2+. Against enemies in cover, a melee unit is effectively an additional AP-1 over their weapon stats since it is unlikely that enemies can claim cover saves in melee combat.

Maybe this is just me being optimistic, but I think melee will have its place in 8th.

>>53291669
I think the fact that assaulting from deep strike is possible will help. On top of that, it feels like options to boost BS during Over watch aren't going to be a thing, or at least won't be as widespread.

Tau especially lose a lot of their anti-assault ability when they're only hitting on 6s. Goes from cases where a Riptide with a few Marker drones behind it is wiping out entire squads during Overwatch to actually needing a full gun line with a lot of shots to actually deal damage.

>>53289325

Christ was Frankie talking up that No Escape rule, acting like it would always go off when in fact it's only happening 50% of the time. I was looking at it thinking "Seriously, is that it?"

I am pretty excited for Raiders in 8th ed. Especially if splinter racks are still a thing.

10 kabalite warriors firing twin linked splinter rifles at half range would be 40 shots of whatever profile splinter rifles get. Pretty good for a troop unit hiding in a transport.

File: DE DIsgusting.jpg (46KB, 395x419px) Image search: [Google]

46KB, 395x419px

>>53289024
>Drukhari

Fuck you Geedubs, It's Dark Eldar.

>>53291782
50% chance to impeding an opponent's retreat is better than having 0% chance of impeding their retreat. Not to mention that a single unit of wyches could possibly tie up mutiple units and apply this rule to all enemy units in combat with the wyches.

>>53292074
But anon, how can they be dark if they are paler then craftworld eldar?

>>53289024
This has been the least discussed faction focus so far
>I am sad.
>Fuck space marines

>>53292203

Articles by Frankie always get less discussion because he just hypes everything but gives little to nothing to back it up. He was masturbating until he bled over Wytches being awesome but the rules he revealed for them were seriously lackluster.

>>53292083
And a 50% chance is worse than a 100% chance. Wyches were nerfed there. High WS meant most units had trouble hitting them, but static hit rolls means wyches get hit even more. That's a nerf for wyches. S/T3 means they still fail to wound most of the game 2/3rds of the time and get wounded back at least 2/3rds of the time.

Wyches still suck ass.

>>53292272
>Articles by Frankie always get less discussion

That's objectively wrong. The Tau article was also by Frankie and that was followed by 365 posts in the main thread and many doomsaying subthreads.

The reason this article has little discussion is because it's about dark eldar which was a middle of the pack army during 7th. As with all dark eldar threads, all anyone ever wants to talk about is wyches and ignore all the other units in the codex.

>>53292272
Like he said. Not much was revealed. Raiders and venom are still going to be fast and hopefully with new profiles they wont be destroyed by a single mean stare. I personally cant wait to go around drive bying with kabalites.
If what he wrote about wyches is true (promises of buffing and all that hype), than awesome i like the idea of using them again. The problem is that those buffs wont mean jack shit if they cant get to assault witch is still pretty possible.
Incubi are pretty much the same or did i miss something? Still love those guys.
Not a word said obout pfp.
Tbh im optimistic about 8th edition, raiders/venoms are going to be better, and there is a chance that we might be able to assault again. Who knows maybe ill start fielding hellions again?

>>53292074
My bad, m8

daerki aeldaries

>>53292104
U sir deserve to become a finest of harlequins

>>53289024
>Drukhari

Urgh.

>wyches hit a little harder, but are still impossible to get into melee

For fucks' sake GW. Give them an immunity to Overwatch or something you stupid motherfuckers.

>>53292596
>I'm going to pass sweeping judgment in absence of any faction rules or other unit rules because I'm a fag
>t. Faggot

>>53292629
>>53292658
I do recall him mentioning that Raiders also had an Invuln like venoms now. I'd imagine that makes them much more viable in comparison.

>>53292727
I'm really surprised they didn't extend their 4+ Invuln to Over watch at least. I saw that suggestion so often and it fits with little change.

Personally, I almost would have rather they gave enemies a -2 to hit them while they were within pistol range. Marines hitting you on 5s as you close in, and only hitting on 5s as you dance around them in melee. That wouldn't really help against Overwatch, but it would mean that they'd be safe from a lot of infantry guns that like to get close for rapid fire

>>53292596
Wyches had WS4. They've always fought marines on a 4+. Now it's just on 3+s.

While they have S3/T3, they now have a rule that provides them with utillity. This makes them more useful when paired up with other assault units in the codex, consider stuff like the talos for this purpose. A talos can eat the overwatch and provide damage and the wyches can provide 50% chance of keeping units in combat. I would think that using wyches in this way would be the best way to use them.

>>53292793
Seems like, to me, that in order to keep to the aesthetic of 'super quick raid army' they just want me to buy more transports.

It's another episode of faction players pissing and moaning that their units aren't broken and being improved is simply not good enough

>>53292731

>Drawing conclusions based on collective released so far is sweeping judgement
What the fuck else is going to change about them? Do you really think they won't be S/T3? Literally nothing changed about them except now they can't definitely lock things in combat, which means they're even worse than before, especially with the changes buffing overwatch.

>>53292629
Because wyches are what everyone wants to see get good. Kabalites have always been playable and now they're even more playable. Wyches are even worse than before in the edition supposedly buffing melee.

>>53292658
>hopefully with new profiles they wont be destroyed by a single mean stare
He said they'll be much more durable, kabalites can still shoot out, and they don't take penalties for the mounted guns. This is great for gun boats.

>wych buffs
They were nerfed and they don't even realize it. There's a very real possibility that I less the whole unit for some miracle sweeping change that they'll be the worst unit in 8th edition. Mark my words. Overwatch still kills them because they only get 4++ in the fight phase, not the charge.

>Incubi are pretty much the same or did i miss something?
He tried to make them look special, but literally nothing new that we didn't already guess based on how AP changed.
>Not a word said obout pfp.
It very likely gone if they didn't mention it, considering all the army quirks downturn other armies, like Battle Focus getting a mention. If anything, it'll be a Covens thing now.

>Tbh im optimistic about 8th edition,
Recent info has curbed in my ecstatic glee for 8th, but no matter what it'll be better than 7th.

>Who knows maybe ill start fielding hellions again?
At this rate, I'm betting they'll be shockingly mediocre. Fast movement, T3 and 6+ save, mediocre damage. 18" guns means they're one movement phase away from getting rapid fired to death.

>>53292907
Don't forget, rather than having AP 5 on their special weapons, they got bumped up to AP -1. That's affecting a hell of a lot more units than just guardsmen now.

>>53292907
>Now it's just on 3+s.
And likewise they get hit on 3s. That's significantly worse.

>While they have S3/T3, they now have a rule that provides them with utillity.
You mean a 50% chance to somewhat they already did and when they lose the toll they die? Wowee!

>>53293058
They still need a 5+ to wound, so it's actually worse.

>>53292975
Like I wrote here >>53292907, I believe wyches have been given a more utility based role for the assault. Rather then trying to be more killy, wyches are now more supportive of your other killier stuff.

>>53293154
>More likely to hit
>Same chance to wound
>Anyone better than geq gets less armor

So yeah, they're better against everything except guard, who now get a 6+ armor save. Somehow I don't think they were having problems with killing guard in melee though.

>>53293154
Currently
>4+ to hit MEQ, 5+ to wound, 3+ save to deal with

Now
>3+ to hit, 5+ to wound, 4+ save to deal with thanks to AP -1

How is that worse again?

>>53293154
I'll be honest, you seem to be pretty unhappy that you need to adapt to how melee will be used in 8th ed.

>>53293264

They're also more likely to receive hits, which means a lot more to a T3 unit.

>>53293320
They're not universally AP-1, just wych weapons, and you're forgetting that Hydra Gauntlets had shred, which is mathematically better than AP-1 as S3.

>>53293359

I honestly don't see how melee is good at all in 8th. Literally everything in the game makes shooting better.

>>53289552
Moon over Commoragh, bring fresh souls to me tonight

i hope they make footdeldar viable instead of everything having to be in transports 100% of the time and to make DEldar not one-trick-pony army

i've wanted to do DEldar force for long time but having to buy transports for pretty much everything just drives the price too high for me.

>>53293439
Well, odds are good that their infantry will be pretty fast, though unless they have some really nice ways of getting cover I'm not sure it'll work out as well.

>>53293439

Here's the problem: footdar may be better, but Gunboats are simply better. They have better movement, better guns without a move penalty, AND they have dudes inside like footdar. Normal eldar can probably do footdar very well because they can't shoot out of their transports like we can. There's no point for us not to use raiders/venoms.

>>53293439
Well hopefully the haemonculus junk will be a lot beefier, then it will be easier to have meaty shields to cover your wyches and kabalites as they advance, softening them up with shooting and then getting close enough to get a solid charge off the wyches then tarpit them to death.

>>53293439
Unit-specific movement speeds. Both flavours of eldar are going to RUN FAST.

File: Dark_Eldar_Slaves.jpg (67KB, 720x495px) Image search: [Google]

67KB, 720x495px

>>53292104
Give this guy some Dark Eldar slaves.

Hell, give 'im ALL the Dark Eldar slaves!

>>53293381
>Literally everything in the game makes shooting better.

Not the changes to cover saves. A +1 or even +2 to a unit's sv matters quite a lot.

>>53293788
That mainly benefits stuff like marines though. For lightly armored units, a 3/4+ cover save was already what they were dealing with.

One upside might be though that there will be less weapons to ignore cover, since now any heavy weapon can do so.

>>53293381
>soft cover effectively lowers your ballistic skill
>hard cover adds to armor
>ap2 isn't a thing anymore
>you are simultaneously dealing with lower chances to hit as well as lower chances of hurting an armored target if if they design their army to assault if that wasn't clear
>units can charge out of deep strike
>even though it's a further than average charge they can use command points to reroll if it fails

If you want to be a bitch and only acknowledge things that fit your point then sure. But other people try to actually pay attention to what's going on.

>>53289024
ELADRITH
YNNEATH


THAT'S HOW THEY CALL THEMSELVES

http://www.strawpoll.me/12988146

So when are Dark Eldar getting half their named charcters back, no Vect is inexcusable

Also Mandrake buff when thier models are too cool for shit rules

>>53293853
Especially since flamers no longer ignore cover, eliminating infantry in cover is now harder then before.

Doubly so for an army like Dark Eldar which has weapons that generally fall into 2 catagories, high rate of fire AP0 guns or low rate of fire AP-3/-4 guns.

Have we discussed that if you can assault after DS, you can almost certainly assault after a full speed transport move? Because that's a HUGE buff for assaulting armies.

>>53289091
Literally this is the only thing DE players want - they want their opponent to be afraid of them in some way. But I don't think that's what we're going to get. Instead, we're just going to get a slightly squishier Eldar without the insane damage output. Fuck that.

>>53293977
That may require a product line update from GW since they don't seem to sell those named HQs on their store. They do sell dark eldar slaves though. Slave datasheet when?

>>53294023
Yeah, I feel like that may be the route they want. Shooting is gonna be easier now thanks to split fire and the heavy weapon changes, but generally will end up weaker thanks to less ignoring cover, rerolls, and general Bullshit.

Melee is then the go-to answer for flushing enemies out of cover, since even if they fall back they'll be exposed

My only qualm is keeping Overwatch in such a system, since that just encourages cover-camping with guns.

That said, it feels like 40k will almost end up like trench warfare. Lots of bullets flying, but you're generally safe in the cover of a trench. You want to do anything though, and you gotta pile into a durable tank and get in nice and close.

>>53294122
They also don't sell Rough Riders but that's not stopping them

>>53293977
Vect is getting squatted after being BTFO by the Ynnari. Cap this.

>>53291267

Where was it ever stated or implied that their intention in 8th was to "make melee king" you tremendous faggot?

>>53291428

There are no to-hit modifiers that we know of, but it's already been confirmed that cover just stacks with armor saves.

So if your wyches are in 4+cover they'll have a 4+ armor save.

>>53294101
Reaver jetbikes with caltropes are pretty scary, if that's the way you want to go.

Speaking of fear inducing, Dark Eldar had a bunch of equipment that used ld tests to deal damage. With leadership reduced slightly across the board, does anyone else think Dark Eldar are going to get more leadership gimmick weapons?

>>53294278

Leadership gimmicks could well be what sets DE apart in 8th. Battleshock tests will be no joke.

>>53293977
>>53294189
Didn't the books start setting up to to have Lady Malys lead a coup?

>>53294253
>No to hit modifiers we know of

You mean besides moving with Heavy Weapons, Smoke Launchers, and the Stealth field on Sniper Drones?

>>53294326

yeah, but apparently Kheradruakh and Vect are the ones who are taking advantage of the situation right now. Vect sent all his rivals to get killed by demons, and Kheradruakh is expanding Aelindrach throughout all the fucked-up districts.

>>53294253
And with the mentioned smoke shields and stealth fields, you don't think a lot of assaulty armies are going to have stealthy infiltrators like they already do?

>>53294326
It also had Kheradruakh become the de-facto ruler of a lot of Commorragh but when was the last time anyone heard that name

Fuck you, I miss him

>>53294374
Ah, only heard bits and pieces from a bunch of conversations. If we don't get Vect back then I'd totally go for Malys. Hell, both. With the introduction of subfactions for things other than space marines we might be seeing kabal rules. Full pirate, sneaky elf keikaku bullshit with lots of infiltration and specialists, haemonculi focused armies. I can get behind that. I really want to see what they're doing with the haemonculi covens since they weren't mentioned in the teaser. Really hoping they don't try to make it an extra army.

>>53291428
Judging by the order of operations when charging (i.e. select target -> overwatch -> roll charge distance), you could attempt a 9" charge and the target with flamers (8" range) would not be able to overwatch. But that's pretty risky.

>>53294253
I think they mentioned in one of the articles that things like popping smoke gives a -1 to hit. Can't remember which article it was though.

>>53293883
>>soft cover effectively lowers your ballistic skill
[Citation needed]
>>hard cover adds to armor
Benefits shooters
>>ap2 isn't a thing anymore
You're right, AP values effectively ignore cover instead
>>you are simultaneously dealing with lower chances to hit as well as lower chances of hurting an armored target if if they design their army to assault if that wasn't clear
What? Things are generally easier to hit and wound in this edition, and it still only takes S6 to 2+ our shit

>>units can charge out of deep strike
With a roll of 9+

>>even though it's a further than average charge they can use command points to reroll if it fails
On one unit and it still needs a 9+

This edition still favors shooting to melee

>>53294375

>Stealthy infiltrators

What does that even mean within the context of 8th?

File: 114666152.jpg (86KB, 350x350px) Image search: [Google]

86KB, 350x350px

>>53294412
tantric deathcult oni eldar are bestdar

I want Kheradruakh to have three eyes, a long tongue and a huge garland of skulls around his neck

>>53294492
>hard cover adds to armor
>Benefits shooters

How? You only benifit from cover against shooting.

>>53294253
Wyches have a 6+ save, so if they're in cover, they're at a 5+ armor save.

>>53294564

I assumed 5+ would give +1 to saves while 4+ would give +2.

Maybe that distinction no longer exists though.

>>53294278
That'd be nice. If I can run some DE and Killer Klowns from Outer Space and just make all other models collectively shit their pants, I'd be a pretty happy camper.

>>53294587
It doesn't.

File: shiva.jpg (179KB, 861x1390px) Image search: [Google]

179KB, 861x1390px

>>53294533
Nah senpai, make him to the iconic Shiva pose on top of a giant mountain of skulls

Also I'm legit suprosed I can still spell Kheradruakh considering how shit his rules were I never used him

>>53294626
He needs both the pose, the pile of skulls and everything I mentioned desu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJ8izgG1eLw

>>53294463
Not too risky. Since you have the extra inch reach you only need 8 inches if you're 8.5 away. Easily doable

>>53293917
Nope. Honestly Drukhari is a much better name anyway with the connection to Druchii. Not to mention shorter.

>>53294708
I don't like how Italian it sounds

I know it's supposed to sound like "duergar" but it just sounds like the name of some shitty pasta restaurant

>>53294673

You have to be MORE THAN 9" away when you Deepstrike, which means that if you move 8" + the 1" melee distance YOU ARE NOT IN RANGE. Unless you can roll an 8.5 on 2d6, you need roll a 9+ to reach melee.

>>53294769
We're talking about avoiding 8" flamer overwatch>>53294769
though.

>>53294769
And here I specifically said 8.5 to make it clear that I wasn't talking about deep strikes.

>>53294808
>>53294861

Ah ok, sorry. Getting threads confused.

>>53294609

So all cover just gives a +1 to saves?

>>53294932

Yes

>>53294932
We don't know.

So, I honestly am curious about how they'll actually make hellions good.

>>53295016
My guess is that they have the "fly" keyword that allows them to retreat from combat and shoot in the same turn. They could also get the ability to do hits (maybe even mortal wounds) when passing over an enemy unit.

>>53293439
>>53293604
I play DE and will occasionally forgo a vehicle heavy list just for fun

If you're not playing competitive just do what makes you happy

>>53295234

They still have the glaring problem of being T3 with a 5+ save while costing as much as a space Marine.

>>53295457
Costs can be adjusted. Isn't that why GW is printing matched play points seperately?

>>53295485
They're still paper thin with no protection, though. If they got some sort of hit modifier, then they'd be slightly better, but even with an armor save, they die in droves to Marines who will be getting a 2+ save against them because lolcover

>>53294127

>8th ed trench warfare

My body and my Death korps are ready.

>>53294492
>citation needed
By soft cover I'm talking about non-physical, like the stealth field from the Tau article or the smoke screens from way the fuck back.
>benefits shooters
>ap ignores cover
If you have a really strong gun that's not made to shoot large groups then sure, otherwise completely false. Your basic infantry guns sure as hell aren't seeing a benefit from this, neither are your low AP weapons in a lot of cases.
>what? things are easier-
You mean having to roll higher to hit you in the first place with units that got great stealth bonuses in the first place, and anything with strong armor being even harder to kill with strong cover because they still get a decent armor save?

And if you're relying on rerolls for every unit and none of them have special rules to get in there then I don't even know how you expect to play the game. Did you just slide a horde forwards while loudly proclaiming "derp"?
>>53294493
You know how there are infiltrators with stealth and shrouded? We have infiltration and stealth effects in 8th. They won't all be the same but it's still a concept.

>>53295749
You could always use your speed to get cover for that sweet 4+ save and go do something that is not the tabletop equivalent of trench warfare. Hellions have always been decently fast, it would probably be good to use that speed.

>>53295959
>infiltrators with stealth and shrouded
Mandrakes are really going to enjoy the all the rule updates. They may not get good rules but it's something different.

>>53296022
I was actually thinking about them when deployment was mentioned, especially since I've been looking at dark eldar for a while but I didn't want the heartbreak. Kinda wishing I bought them before so I could start painting earlier before release. At this rate I might be able to get a 500pt army ready if I don't throw too many chains and hooks everywhere.

It really makes me dread striking scorpions and stealth suits now considering their armor and the likelihood of them keeping the -1 to hit stealth fields.

>>53296139

Meanwhile we get nothing of value besides more of the same, ie gunboats

I'm suprised, I thought more people would be happy deldar had a confirmed way of doing something about the Tau bullshit everyone was bitching about. Yeah it ain't perfect, but it's something.

>>53296769
The Tau falling back thing is on their battlesuits, and those aren't exactly the best target to charge Wyches into.

Yeah, they can keep them in combat, but it's gonna be tough to get through their armor and wounds.

>>53296938
that's right, suits will probably have double the number of wounds now.
neat

>>53296769
If dark eldar vehicles get the fly keyword, then we too can fall back and shoot.

>>53296938
True but if poison and so on is still a thing it's probably solid for dealing with higher toughness.

Regardless despite how zippy battle suits are probably gonna be, Deldar will likely be pretty fast as well and can keep those shits on their toes, especially if tarpits like wyches get a points drop.

Also we should remember that our beefy shit from covens will probably be meaty multi-wound fuckers now too.

>>53297192
Poison in it's current form would probably be too op for 8th ed. Wounding knights on 4s would be too much.

>>53290262
>that story about when lelith held a contest for a 'prize' from her to who brings her the deadliest prey for the arena
>that archon who won expecting to get some from THE Lelith hesperax
>then she shanked him because the best prize she could give was a fight with her

Lelith don't fuck around.

>>53297232
Yeah no doubt it will be different, but it will likely allow some level overcoming toughness to some degree. Like say poison weapons treat toughness as say 2 lower or maybe just counting as a tier lower on the toughness wounding chart. Like despite being half or lower it just counts as lower instead.

>>53296769

It's more the fact that wyches went from 100% able to lock something in place to lol randumb 50% chance to not instantly die because everyone can moonwalk.

File: kabal of the corrupted life.jpg (1MB, 1956x1474px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1956x1474px

>tfw DE player since before gathering storm
>fear for the future of DE because of the ynnari
>new ed comes out, they're still completely independent

oh thank god. Now I just hope they make hellions actually usable. I have 15 of these worthless fucks right now.

>>53297386

Except for the fact that Commoragh is overrun with daemons and Lilith joined the Ynnari, yea. Totally independent

>>53297323
Considering one of the intended points of 8e is to kill tarpitting as a tactic, I think it's exactly what it's supposed to be.

>>53297799
The problem there is they really need to make it more viable for melee then which they seem to be really really cautious about doing even the slightest buff. When Shooting is as strong as it is, and one of the only options for melee forces like deldar and nids is to tarpit shooting units so they can't fucking shoot you to bits, they really need to give melee a bone here.

I can understand how fucking boring and annoying just having most of your army tarpitted can be but if melee had other options that were reliable they probably wouldn't rely so heavily on tarpitting.

>>53297769
from what I understand, the mandrakes shut the gate of Khaine again.

>>53297799
>>53297843
Falling back is why I was so excited, because it meant that melee armies couldn't tarpit shooting armies, so they could focus the benefits of melee in other places.

They're kind of doing that by removing some of the restrictions on charging and letting it happen out of deep strike and on the first turn and stuff, but it feels like they still kept too many downsides from previous editions.

Right now, charging is effectively a shooting attack with 2d6 range that allows your opponent to snap-shot at you before you 'shoot' and then 'shoot' you themselves. Yeah, if you don't kill them, it'll cost that unit their next turn, but any dedicated melee unit is going to leave them half-dead and want to focus on something else nearby if possible.

I feel like random charge ranges are still okay here, especially since you can now move the distance even if you don't make it. It also allows assaulting from deep strike to be risky, but still rewarding and possible.

So that just leaves the question of why your opponent should still get to shoot you in a panic first every single time. At this point there's no difference between assault and strong shooting, so why the discrepancy? At most, I could see it still being a thing for Tau to make up for their inability to hit stuff in combat, but with battlesuits being able to fall back and shoot anyway it sounds like a properly built Tau gunline should be able to handle a melee army rushing them even without overwatch.

Not only that, but even with Wyches being able to lock in enemies 50% of the time, if your enemy is say, a tactical squad, they're going to get to shoot those gals in the face. Yet another way for shooting units to weather an assault.

Overwatch is pointless now, and I really do not understand why they kept it.

>>53297319
What if poison is +1 to wound (natural rolls of 1 are still automatic fails) and the natural strength of the weapon is 3.

>>53298093
I guess it depends what they want poison to do. It was previously good at killing MCs, but since MCs are vehicles now, that's less great.

+1 to wound rolls at S 3 would basically just make it Poison 5+ against most targets though. Effectively S 4 except against S 6 really.

File: 911.jpg (103KB, 688x740px) Image search: [Google]

103KB, 688x740px

>Dark Lance Scourges are viable
YES
YES

I wonder how CTC will translate though

>>53298093
So the worst a poisoned weapon can do is 5+ against really beefy shit? (barring failures of course)

Sounds pretty good, would make poisoned shit still pretty solid at taking down big things with massed fire, and could make stuff that's poisoned and has variable damage more reliable

Though with dropping a wounding chart level would make it pretty nasty overall.

I'm just waiting to see how jink 3.0 will work. I know people bitch and moan about how adarki aeldari have to jink constantly but I like how jink is pretty much our faction specific USR.

Also thanks for fucking up incubi. Nah it's not like I liked being able to murder fuck terminators. Let those bulldog fucks get 5+/5++ against me it's not like I care or anything.

>>53298258

Just shoot dissy cannons at them

Also, holy fuck void ravens are going to have S9 AP-4 heavy lances.

>>53298258
Terminators getting 5+ armor after save mods isn't any different than them just having a 5+ Invuln. They don't stack.

>>53298556
Unless they do. They haven't actually said what invuls do yet.

Someone in the main thread just put the final nail in the wyches coffin. They only get their 4++ in then fight phase, son anyone with pistols kills them in the shooting phase. They don't even have to disengage.

>>53298700
If both saves stack, rubric marines are going to be pretty immune to small arms. Against 1 damage weapons like a bolter, they have 2+ armor and then a 4++ invuln. That's 12 successful wounds average to kill a rubric marine.

I think its more likely that invulns work similar to 7th ed where it is an alternate unreducable save.

>>53298820
Maybe after a couple of turns of pistol shooting. Pistols are nice but even 5 3+ 3+ AP- shots isn't all that great.

>>53298960
I just ran the numbers >>53298974 though granted it was with a full squad. Still, Wyches don't really kill things fast enough for them to be safe from a handful of shots like that. Even 5 shots has a pretty solid chance to kill off 2 every round.

>>53299000

A unit of 10 wyches will lose to a 5 man devestator squad in combat.

>>53299138
I'd argue it's less of a matter of if they lose and more of a matter of if they tarpit for a good period of time. And from everything I've seen the answer is no.

>>53299138
>he says, having basically none of the relevant stats with which to do the math
When we get the Wych datasheet, then you can cry.

>>53299260
And I will, though Hellions will probably make me even more sad.

>>53298190
In the article they specified Poison weapons would wound vehicles on a 6+. How? Pretty fuckin' simple. Tags. Poison (4+) will wound models on a 4+ that don't have the <Vehicle> tag. Hell, they can even do stuff with tags like making Necrons ignore poison again if they want.

To bring up something that may completely, utterly change the game on Wytches:
>You can even fire Pistol weapons out of the vehicle when it is engaged in close combat
Okay so that means vehicles can be engaged in close combat. And that they stay engaged in combat. Now, this does require me to assume the article writer isn't a complete stupid shit in mentioning this. Because if he's implying that you got your Wytches in a Raider assaulted while they're still in the Raider, and you didn't retreat but stayed in, and that being able to now shoot your 10 pistols is a bonus, he's a fucking idiot. So going way out on a limb and assuming he isn't.... do open-topped transports work like chariots currently do? Can you jam a raider full of Wytches into an enemy unit and fight them from aboard the ship without even disembarking, shoot pistols off it the next turn, and then finish the combat? Because that would be the kind of Dark Eldar shit I'd love to be playing.

>>53299755

That would be fucking radical to the extreme

>>53299770
It'd also mean Orks could do the same. Which is also the kind of shit I want to see happening.

>>53299755
> Hell, they can even do stuff with tags like making Necrons ignore poison again if they want.

please no, DE already have enough of a problem killing necrons.

>>53299794

I thought it was fluffed that Deldar had shit that effectively worked the same way against Crons because deldar science.

>>53299791
The thing with Raider is that that's exactly what happens, though. I mean shit, it comes with models that dangle off the side.

>>53299794
>>53299835
Dark Eldar have been killing 'Crons since the War in Heaven, why wouldn't they have robot poison?

>>53299835
>>53299856


I'm talking crunch-wise

I feel bad for dark eldar players. The few guys I know who play them actually seem to paint their shit and have fun. But they constantly get shat on.

I guess it could be worse, they could be nids or orks.

File: 1382144692533.jpg (154KB, 900x1300px) Image search: [Google]

154KB, 900x1300px

>>53299770
If it happens, I hope the Duke is back. Whole army swooping in on Raiders and Venoms, coked out of their minds

>>53289024

Drew Carey is just the worst fucking name, can they please just stick with the non copyright-able ones?

>>53299755
>mfw imagining wyches hanging off venoms and actually fighting like the model actually shows them doing

please GW, make this happen. I want a REASON to use wyches, and this sort of shenanigans is exactly what I'm looking for.

also, please, PLEASE give me a reason to use hellions. They're some of my favourite infantry models and they're worthless right now.

>>53300491
There are currently 2 units worse than wyches right now: Pyrovores and Hellions.

>>53300014
I think they're continuing with the whole 'look how fancy they are with their alien names!

>>53300498
what about kroots and vespids?

>>53300510
Still better than wyches, hellions, and pyrovores

>>53294731
Know what else sounds Italian? Commoragh.

Make Hellions great again! (ok, they were never great, ok will do...)
i have mix feelings about 8th edition for DE, but i still feel that it wont be worse than it was in 7e. from what i saw we still can have fun with raiders/venoms. Incub are still nice (even though lack of AP2 will hurt them).
Buff for wyches is nice, but untill we can see a full picture im not sure about that. it still looks like they will have a hard time to just get in combat -1 save special weapons means that they will still struglle against anything in power armor, and the "no escape rule" is ok i guess (too random for my taste but whatever), but even in their example (tau crisis suits) i dont think that they would even survive to the moment they could fight h2h with them. their superior movement means that they could just kite them out and shoot untill dead, or rape in overwatch with flamers. and even in h2h they will still have good enough T, save, and possibly W to survive. i guess we'll find out.

On the semi related note, i fell like this whole dark empire thing is giving a lot possibilites for DE fluffwise.
Archon in a kabal decides that he's tired of this bullshit. Commorragh is a ravaged hellhole (even more than before), with deamons still roaming their streets and everyone fighting for power (since vect might be detroned), he decides to just fuck it, lets move to realspace. Empire is split and the dark half is too busy to stop them anyway. Space pirates in space squared. Its time to have some fun

"What will we do with a drunken halfborn? x3
Early in the mornig!

Way hay and up she rises,
Way hay and up she rises,
Way hay and up she rises,
Early in the morning!

Shank him in the belly with a rusty razor, x3
Early in the mornig!

Put him in a barrel of corrosive acid, x3
Early in the morning!

Put him in a cage with haemonculus grotesque, x3
Early in the morning!

etc.

>>53300865
That's litterally been my fluff for my army for years, achon got tired of politics and decided to move out on a pleasure barge.

Being very rich this "barge" using fact a heavily armed war ship functioning as a mini commoragh. Complete with arena, homunc labs etc.

He was then instantly murdered on the first night of the voyage and the ship is now REALLY mini commoragh, right down to all the backstabbing that he wanted to get away from.

Basically space pirates.

I'm most likely going to change the lore of why they left to the deamon infestation now, makes a lot of sense.

Also have you considered, CRASHING the transport into combat?
Litterally take a raider full of 10 wyches, slam it into a unit doing a bit of damage, shoot pistols, jump out turn after and pile into combat first thing.
If the raider goes pop you should be ok as there's most likely no explode result anymore!

>>53296022

Bet mandrakes get the bullshit snapshots rule from the calexus assassin. But no save.

>>53301128
Sweet Kabal man, that sounds awesome. Now all i want to do is slam as many wyches in as many raiders and crash them in to everything in range! Screw winning this sounds like fun

>>53299755
please no. the 4+ to wounds shits on Tyranids way too hard

>>53289730
>Blond makes everything better
It do!

File: warpspider.gif (1MB, 320x277px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 320x277px

>>53289024

>Wyches are powerful because they now have a 50% chance to fail something they used to do anyway

Assault is going to be even worse isn't it?

File: Wut Da Zog!?.jpg (69KB, 563x587px) Image search: [Google]

69KB, 563x587px

>>53293154

Also, their one strength, initiative, has been removed from the game.

>Guardsman can now beat wyches because they charged at them

>>53302258
Probably not as easily as you might be thinking. Wyches still have a 4++ invuln and 2ccw in combat.

File: No Escape.jpg (24KB, 700x147px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 700x147px

>>53291782
>>53292083
>>53292596
>>53292907
>>53293154
>>53297323
>>53298052
>>53302236
Because I'm autistic as fuck, the chance that the enemy will remain locked in combat is actually 58.33%. The rule says the person retreating needs to WIN the roll-off and stay locked if it's a tie

>>53302258

>guardsman can now beat incubi because they charged at them

life as a drukunti is hard

>>53302909
Don't incubi have a 3+ armor save? Assuming hitting on 4s and wounding on 4s, it would take 12 hits on average to down a incubi model.

Barring initiative, that's generally the same as in 7th ed.

>>53302645
doesn't a tie cause a further roll off?

>>53303242
>Don't incubi have a 3+ armor save? Assuming hitting on 4s and wounding on 4s, it would take 12 hits on average to down a incubi model.
4 up.

>>53303302
oh wait, I'm retarded.

scourges are the one with a 4 up.

File: profile.png (170KB, 1283x130px) Image search: [Google]

170KB, 1283x130px

>>53303302
What

>>53303330
see>>53303318

File: ftw no Duncan.jpg (14KB, 231x290px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 231x290px

>>53303285
Okay I'm retarded

>>53303330
thinking about it I don't think I've ever seen a DE character aside from a Klaivex to take challenges for his Archon, I hope I get to see a Sybarite in my lifetime

>>53303348
It's ok anon. I don't see Incubi on the table much either.

>>53303370
>I hope I get to see a Sybarite in my lifetime
Maybe if we didn't have to pay to have a character in units we would see them more.

>>53303370
I use arena champions in my 1850 list just so my reavers can actually do more than just be HoW bots.

but that's because I don't have my full squad of 5 taloses.

Removal of initiative is still fucking bullshit

>>53297236

The best part of that story was the author, extremely casually, mentioning in that story that during the contest she was effortlessly slaying hive tyrants and Ork warbosses in single combat, and in the end it was only the marine captain that gave her a hard time.

There's just something really fun about shitting on Tyranid and Ork players like that.

>>53299260

Why are you pretending wyches won't be s3 t3 w1 with rend- CCW stock?

So, raiders can assault now, so we move up, hop out, assault with the raider, Tokyo drift it's ass into another squad, let it eat the overwatch, then assault with wyches?

Power from Pain is now a static 6+ feel no pain save. We're not Marines, so we're not actually allowed to have good army wide rules.

>>53307751
yup, thats the plan. though i suspect that raider wont survive it most of the time. Personally ill still use them to perform sick drive by's. Leave assault to professionals like incubi. but still im temted to actually start using wyches again and not only keeping them for SWA

>>53308842
and where did you get it from?

>>53308929
Normiebook live stream apparently. Once again, we get shafted.

>>53308991
What?! If it's true than fuck GW with a huskblade

>>53308842
>6+ feel no pain

Nigger that literally is an army-wide rule Marines have gotten since 6th for Iron hands.

>>53297386
I just want mandrakes to get their old 3rd ed deployment. I've been collecting dark eldar for ~15 years now and am sitting on so many useless models

>>53309097

Who also get other bonuses like ATSKNF

They didn't say a damned thing about scourges or Mandrakes

BRING BACK VECT, THE DUKE AND KHERADRUAKH

File: Most_Electrifying_Man_in_Commoragh.jpg (286KB, 800x1153px) Image search: [Google]

286KB, 800x1153px

>>53314335

>>53308842
If 8th ed is going the AoS route, 6+ and 5+ fnp will be about as good as fnp will get.

>>53307751

There'll probably be a statute stating that a transport can not declare a charge on the turn models disembarked from it.

>>53314884

Just like the entire phoenix guard and their 4++?

>>53313737
Too bad

>>53304029
well you say "that marine captain". He was the greatest duelist that the Imperial Fists have ever produced, at the top of his game. Bit more than a generic captain....