Why can't people accept that Space Marines could get upgrades?

>>53270701
I dunno.

If they somehow manage to find a fully functioning STC they'll probably be ok.

Because they got them before Chaos did... you know, the guys who've got no fucking problem with trying to upgrade, mutate or generally do whatever the fuck they can to get an edge on Chaos. Hell there was even all that stuff with Bile's Tartas or whatever to justify it.

But no instead the loyalists have to get it, because loyalists sell. What's that? The Imperium as paranoid as fuck about technology advancing? LOLNO! SUPER-SUPER-MARINES FOR EVERYONE!

Most people seem positive about it. In fact the reaction to this vs. the reaction to Age of Sigmar is kinda interesting.

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>>53271094
>Because they got them before Chaos did... you know, the guys who've got no fucking problem with trying to upgrade, mutate or generally do whatever the fuck they can to get an edge on Chaos. Hell there was even all that stuff with Bile's Tartas or whatever to justify it.

>>53270701
>miracle they survived this long
I think if you survive for over 10000 years its not really a miracle anymore but something a lot more permanent.

>Galaxy literally being raped
Apart from Cadia pretty much everything we've heard is the Imperium winning. Magnus came back and was instantly defeated in his first military endeavour, Guilliman kicked the crap out of the Chaos forces in Ultramar and the Imperium's already poised to retake the Cadian system. Other than Cadia what major battle has the Imperium even lost since GS began?

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>>53271162
>That'll teach you for turning your back on the Emperor

>>53271162
If you think that's referring to numarines for Chaos instead of updated cults you're gonna be disappointed.

>>53270701
Fabius Bile is probably gonna like commit suicide. He's been fucking around with forbidden lore, knowledge and tech for more than eight thousand years and has almost nothing to show for it, then the Imperium's just like; oh yeah, we figuredout what you've been looking for 10000 years ago, sorry dude.

>>53270701
All of a sudden I'm hungry for a raspberry swirl Blizzard.

>>53271191
Nah man you get cherry and blueberry and you mix that

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I'm cool with primaris marines,since they don't seem that bad.I just hope it's more along the lines of them being reinforcements and not that they replace the normal space marines.
Mainly because I'm just getting into 40k and bought a tactical marine pack and a dreadnought.

>>53271187
They made it in the first place dood

>>53271289
Your point being? I still think its hilarious that Fabius Bile's entire character arc he's been on since the Heresy is just going to have been completed already as a sideproject by a single Magi on Mars.

>>53271308
To be fair that single magi was kicking about most likely before Bile was born and has been working at it for 10, 000 years unlike Bile who technically has been at it far less due to warp/time fuckery.

>>53271308
>>53271391
That's actually noteworthy. The magi is incredibly old, from heresy and potentially pre-heresy. What this guys knows is pretty incredible, and it's kinda sad they downplayed him quite a bit into a sort of on-demand mini McGuffin.

>>53271308
That single techpriest had the geneseed tithe from all chapters to work with and the rest of the mechanicus. Tech stagnation is stupid on the Imperium anyway. It shouldnt take 10,000 years to create stronger and stable space marines what the fuck is everyones problem with that?

>>53271437
Yep, guy was pre-heresy

>>53271457
It also helps that as chaos wasn't involved their isn't any sudden cases of mutation/possession/murderous thoughts to derail things, i'd bet Bile would get farther if his creations didnt turn out to be psychotic super monsters.

>>53271162
1kSons players should just sell their armies at this point

>>53270701
>The Imperium NEEDS new toys and bodies.
Nope

>>53271895
You spikey boys will get new models too ya git. Complaints from marine players are funny

>>53271908
How so?

>>53271167
Imperium is winning the fights where the big names show up and are losing the rest of the galaxy.

>>53271908
Oh so its okay for the tau to get new weapons but not the Imperium eh?

>>53271162
It occurs to me that since we have almost confirmation that the Primaris will be in the new started box, there is a good chance the Nurgle marines will have their own updates in the same box.

And that means that box is the ultimate gateway drug by GW.

Slightly stronger Marines with better statline and fewer models to paint, in a box designed to make them shine versus some special marines. Its less daunting to have not so many things to paint in the box, its the same value as any old box but with new shiny models, better margins for GW, etc.

>>53271928
After Cadia Alliance (Ultramarines and Ynnari, other factions are irrelevant now) have only victories, they easily btfo Black Legion, Thousand Sons, Red Corsairs, strongest Nurgle and Slaanes Greater daemons with their armies and it was without nuMarines

>>53271908
>>53271920
>>53271928
>>53271936
Guys, guys. If it's not this slight push-up in Space Marines, then the Imperium would be getting STCs.
And there goes all conflict. STCs are pretty much the Imperium's only route of advancement besides small push-ups, and STCs will outclass all other factions quite quickly-especially if it's a military STC that is advanced.

>>53271241
Hate to break it to you, but your tac squads are gonna be shelved. They already said they are going to have dreds and vehicles for them. Old marines are going to turn into empire from fantasy, they exist and can be played, but get no more support.

>>53271630
>his creations didnt turn out to be psychotic super monsters
But my boy, creating psychotic super monsters was his plan all along

>>53272002
Ah yes all the old technology that Humanity had before the age of strife would wipe the floor with everything. These improved soace marines have yet to prove themselves.

>>53272003
>Old marines are going to turn into empire from fantasy, they exist and can be played, but get no more support.

B-b-but /tg/ told me that SM are too popular for it

>>53271241
>old playerbase currently owns all the oldmarine models they could ever need
>create bigger more expensive Numarines™
>old players begin purchasing models from you best-selling line once again

It's pretty easy to see why they would do this from a business standpoint

>>53272114
>from a business standpoint
Good, but we mostly players, not shareholders.

>>53270701
with the Galaxy split in two, does the Imperium still span both sides? Is it traversable or is ultramar effectively in control?

>>53272184
So don't buy them? Either you value your money more than the models or the models more than your money.

>>53272211
Check out the article on warhammer community. For the most part it can't be crossed and the astronomicon isnt working in the dark imperium.

>>53272211
>Is it traversable or is ultramar effectively in control?
Yep, Webway

>>53272184

One shareholder is worth a thousand players. Face it,/tg/ you are the astra militaum and they are the marines...or you are the marines and they are the Intercessors lol

Chaos players can easily make the new marines into traitor legionaries as truescale models if they want to. I don't see the problem.

You really want new units in-lore? Why

every time GW releases new units people jsut call them money grubbing

>>53272211
The Imperium still spans on both sides.....but I have no idea if it can be traversed. Um.....

Oh shit. I just realized. The Imperium is heavily reliant on reinforcement from across the galaxy to keep all the bits alive. If the halves are cut off from each other, how can the two halves stay alive without being able to provide supplies and soldiers to each other? There's gotta be a way to traverse, or the Imperium has finally reached its end OR the Imperium is suddenly going to pull a 180 and achieve unprecedented management.

>>53272276
One of the articles says that the top side of the map, the side without terra, is in a bad way.

>>53272003
Doubt it. Numarines aren't a special new force, they're an in-universe explanation for making Marines as cool looking on the table as they are in the fluff. The shitty looking old manlet models needed to be axed completely, but the fanbase would riot, so we got this.

The worst I could see happening is a situation where oldmarines turn into what the Thunder Warriors were to MKI troopers. Which is actually kind of a badass way to advance the story.

>>53271895
I love my dudes and have poured far too much blood sweat and tears into painting them to ever do that, but I will be quitting 40k.
I mostly only cared about the painting anyway so it's not a huge change.

>>53270701
>Why can't people accept that Rowboat Girlyman could improve upon the designs of his father the single most powerful human to have ever existed especially considering the fact the he's constantly portrayed as better then everyone else in the universe.

>>53272334
>I mostly only cared about the painting anyway so it's not a huge change

then why do you care? I'm a modeler only. I'm pumped I'm getting truescale models.

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>>53271936
It isn't ok for Tau either.
Remember how they used to be too smart and too good to produce the trademark Superheavy Walkers the Imperium was known for? Of how they countered Titans with more cost-effective flying Railguns?
LOLNOPE, it's walker time now, baby.
Everything after the Riptide has been a fucking mistake.
So no, it's not okay for the Tau to get new weapons either.

>>53271071

If they find a perfect STC then they would just win. DAoT only fell due to the iron men. Without that humanity just sweeps across the galaxy. They hold on now and the greatest they have now was shit tier stuff that survived the age of strife. If they had all the good shit? Game over. They can never have them find that since it means game over for every other faction.

>>53272358
Because I did occasionally play, and I'm just utterly sick of GW constantly shitting on Chaos at every opportunity they get, they almost act as if the people that play and collect Chaos (and Orks and Nids) are just punching bags that will take any shit they throw at them instead of paying customers so I just don't want to give them my money any more.

>>53272336
Considering Emo-Raven-b-I mean, Corvus Corvax, was given the designs by Emps in order to mass-produce Marines during the Heresy in a very short time (until Chaos came in and fucked things up again), the possibility of improving upon the original Space Marine designs, especially if some ol' coghead has been tinkering with it on and off for the last 10k years, isn't that much of a stretch.

Girlyman or no Girlyman, this isn't an 'out-of-left field' scenario we're talking about.

Primaris are okay.
What's wrong with them?

>>53271095
People wanted fluff to advance, and now it is. They have been literally asking for this for as long as /tg/ has existed.

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I just don't see how slightly geneseedier and shootier SMs would give them the edge over other fractions. It's guardsmen who do the important work anyway

>>53272511
I would like the concept more if i knew a bit of the lore, or what is the cost when it comes to supply to the chapters that they are being assigned to. As a sidenote i really hope that they are less human than the standard marines or something like that.

>>53272461
I mostly collect nids and have no idea what you're talking about.

Do you want new models? Chaos is getting loads, remember Magnus? more TBA.

Do you mean them losing in-universe? Their lore is advancing and they're assfucking the Imperium. I've never touched them but they seem to be doing ok.

Nids don't have new models or new lore, really but whatever. What do you expect? They're a personality-less hive mind that can only interact with other races by eating them. That's why I love them. I don't care if they're beaten back outside the galaxy in-lore, shit, I'd be into that.

I just don't understand the entitled mentality you have about GW's IP. You want Nids to eat the galaxy and end the setting? lol

>>53272501

This. The issue is that 40k looks likely to suck during 8th. Not that the marines are improved. After all the Emperor is trying to survive long enough to let humanity survive into a psychic race and essentially BE like the emperor. DAoT humans for example were the pinnacle of humanity's progress and the Emperor was still in hiding then. It isn't impossible that people improve on what he did or modify shit given that was his plan to begin with. The Emperor is simply the most powerful being right now, it doesn't mean he knows all or is omnipotent. And humanity is ultimately meant to evolve to a point where they don't need him because every human becomes like the emperor. Or did everyone forget that he said as much and it was why he tried to avoid becoming a god and even put power in the hands of regular humans which some primarchs hated?

>>53270701
Upgraded marines are awesome!!!!!!!!!XDXdxxdxXDXD
It's not like we already had grey knights and assassins that were better.
And even better once all the 13 year old but the upgraded marines and they stop being awesome then we'll just create upgraded upgraded marines which will be even awesomer XD;P

>>53272379
Its natural for enemies at war to develop new technology to fight each other in the grim darkness of the far future.

>>53272595
>what is the cost when it comes to supply to the chapters that they are being assigned

?

Imperium is a feudal government. There isn't a cost. Humans are levied, taxed, ect. They take from the people and supply their armies who in turn are bound to serve.

>>53272571
>It's guardsmen who do the important work anyway
No they don't
Sm are the best selling faction by far

>>53272625
stop posting, please

I don't even like neumarines but you're a fucking idiot.

>>53270701
Where the fuck did the Eye of Terror go on that map?

>>53272639
>Imperium is a feudal government. There isn't a cost. Humans are levied, taxed, ect. They take from the people and supply their armies who in turn are bound to serve.
Indeed which is why N Korea is starving and has major shortages in pretty much everything

>>53272696

>North Korea
>feudal

>North Korea
>comparable to a sprawling galactic empire where people are free to run themselves however they want as long as they pay the required tithes of food/water, material, and people

Feel free to stop posting at any time.

>>53272639
Sorry, should have explained it better.

For example, making a Space Marine is pretty damn costly when it comes to the resources they use to do that, geneseed being the rarest.

So how difficult is for the Imperium to create this Primaris? They are all, for what i know, grown on Mars. How they select the candidates to become Primaris? Do they get new internal organs? Or they are just vat grown on the push of a button?

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>tfw one of the worst armies
W-w-we'll get something too right GeeDubs?

>>53272750

It's costly for the Imperium because the way modern space marines are made is not the way the Emperor made them. The method the Imperium uses now is the more inefficient but adaptable method built in by the Emperor to allow them to adapt and recruit on the go during the GC rather than wait for recruits to be shipped across the galaxy.

Now they have a primarch back in the picture who remembers a lot of shit that the Imperium has lost and is also designed to be smarter by default. So he can easily modify space marines and make an easier method to create them. Corax did it before the Alpha Legion fucked them.

>>53272826

And if you wanna be technical it isn't even too costly to make a space marine. Failed initiates die and they recruit from overpopulated hive worlds or death worlds. So, it is only really inefficient, not costly.

>>53272655
In the lore cunt muffin

>>53272597
No I'm mad that despite fact that we just got new models less than a year ago they have almost immediately been made to look like shit next to the new shiny loyalist models.
I already have all the models from the recent Thousand Sons release but If they're all just going to look like decrepit little shits from now on next to the loyalists why bother?

And when I said treating certain players like shit, I'm referring to the smug glee with which they seem to like to mock these armies for having bad rules and being terrible all while sucking endless amounts of marine cock.

>>53272617
Have you forgotten that we only know that from a outsiders point of view, and the Emperor is in no place to share his thoughts?

Besides, have you ever thought about the possibility that humanity's fate as the "Supreme Psychic Race" has been lost entirely? Its clear that if Humanity tries to evolve now, it is doomed: the power of the Chaos gods loom over the entire galaxy, and there has never been a worse time to be a psyker, as each wytch or untrained psyker is just a Daemonic invasion waiting to happen.

The Emperor's vision of a humanity free from Space Marines died the moment Horus betrayed him. And thus, so did his dream of a stable imperium acting as a shield for the emergent psyker human population.

>>53272902
then you shouldn't have said
>important work
sales are the only thing GW cares about

>>53270701
What about Imperial guard?Yes space marines are an elite force of the imperium ,but why didn't Girlyman prioritize upgrading the MAIN force of the imperium, he must've at least thought about them

>>53272945
Dude, Rubric Marines are already almost a head taller than the Tactical box. They closer to primus marines, rather than the other way around.

>>53272595
I think the new marines are going to have a lot more problems than we foresee.

>>53273031
Imperial Guard don't sell like Space Marines do.

;^)

>>53272946

Well all we do know is from Outcast Dead and when that one inquisitor talked to the Emperor. Given that we know the Emperor's mind is fragmented in order to help defend people, and in outcast dead his battle was like a chess game and he can't be all knowing and all powerful at the same time.

So, I wouldn't say that goal is lost, it's just hanging on by a thread.

>>53272334
For what? Rules are getting better

>>53273062
Roight fogot about the biggest power of 40K...GeeDubs...and money...still EXOSKELETON GUARDSMAN WITH BOLTER MINIGUNS WHEN?

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>>53273045
I've done countless scale comparisons using photos, they seem taller than regular marines but they'rereally just standing up straight.
They still look like tiny skinny little things and besides, they're rules are much worse if the power level system is any indication.

>>53273031
Because it was a project started 10k years ago? Because Space Marines are easier to upgrade than 10000000000000000000000000000000000000^4
Guardsmen?

>>53273157

They did modify guardsmen once to fight tyranids and only a few survived. From what I remember it was just a disaster.

>>53273194
Didn't the mechanics put them on ice to study the survivors

>>53273131
You're just gonna complain no matter what, huh? You admit to buying the new CSM shit but you're mad literally every release isn't for you? You're finally getting attention like you haven't seen in years, being brought back to center stage in the setting, and you're upset the SM get a new thing?

You obviously don't know shit about competitive army comps if you think 2 wound marines with 6 inches more range are gonna be more viable than rubric marines. Wounds are some of the worst stats to invest points into with the current allocation rules.

Rubric marines are beautiful models. Their lore is 10x better than primaris marines. Their sergeants are fucking psykers. You can make them taller if you're into truescale models, which is all Primaris marines are. But really, all you wanna do is bitch and moan.

>>53272571
What stats would Soldier have?

>65pts
>Elite choice
>WS4 BS5 S4 T5 23 W3 A2 LD8 SV5+
>Faction: Armies of the Imperium (Character) Jump Infantry
>Special rules: Slow and purposeful, Fear, Stubborn, Counter attack, Hatred (Germany)

>Wargear: Missile Launcher, 'Plasma' Pistol, CCW (Shovel), Frag grenades

>>53273157
Still a new flashlight would be nice

>>53272960
important work.....in universe. Are you that dense?

>>53273349
It's called a joke you dense motherfucker

>>53273245

I think. They took the survivors to be debriefed and I don't remember what happened after. I forget what they were even called or the incident.

>>53273131
Execpt, if you've been paying attention, Rubrics not only ignore the Primaris' ap value, but have access to better weaponry, and psychic powers, all the while having a LESSER power level overall.

>>53273251
Maybe, I guess I'm not mad just depressed.
I probably needed a break anyway.

Still there's something that just feels so shitty about these numarines, something that just makes me loose the will to paint or play

>>53273157
Making the mass poduced shit slightly better that gets used everywhere and from everyone makes a bigger difference then making the rare elite slightly better

>>53273258
>Hatred (Germany)
He is disgusted by everyhting nonamerican, but he is a child of the commie age. It's the russians he's enemies with

>>53273369
There was no joke in your comment

>>53272675
You see all that warpfuckery spanning the map? That's it.

>>53273399
I kind of agree. In theory, they seem as dumb as centurions. A new toy for no reason. If they end up being better and cooler and just eclipsing the old marines, I'll agree. But there's so many angles it could run from here. Most of them ending up darker than the universe was before. A dream to be broken.

Internecine conflict with old marines, bitter at being replaced, huge flaws with new marines that make them weaker in ways than the old ones, or just massive battles that leave thousands of them dead.

And anyway, unlike centurions, the new models can serve as truescale marines. I haven't collected marines in forever mostly because they look like manlets. I fucking hate the old scale of the models.

>>53273429
he went to Germany in the 60's to fight in WWII though, yeah?

>>53273404
And that took 10,000 years

It's actually probably take the same amount of time to spread to like half the galaxy unless I'm overestimating how fucked logistics is

Because we really wanted them to be Thunder Warriors.

>>53273485
>A new toy for no reason.
Have you seen the galaxy map? How much shit they had to deal with before and now after?

It's weird how people go on about how indoctrinated to serve and die marines are then to see posts that like them to insecure children

>>53273485
The problem is that they could just have said that all marines will get upgrades in lore and and new models on the tabletop and be done with it.
Instead they created a separate super duper kind of marine for purely marketing purposes

>>53273555
>all your marine models are obsolete and pointless now! Enjoy!

GW knew SM players would riot if they did that. Plus then either CSM are manlets comparatively or they make new models for literally every variant of marine that ever existed.

This is the only realistic way GW could have gone about redesigning Marines to make them look less retarded and 80's-y

>>53273555
Kinda shit marketing purposes at that, the only demographic that something like this would appeal to would be 1 year olds and I think they seriously overestimate the number of 14 year olds who play or would play a tabletop wargame over a video game.

A better marketing strategy would have been to just make it a new type of armour between power armour and terminator armour (to explain the extra wound), that way people wouldn't feel like their armies were being replaced by some young upstarts and they would have been able to update classic characters to the new scale without much trouble.

>>53273624
thats.... essentially what it is though

>>53273530
That's because Space Marines players are insecure children see this whole fiasco and anytime anything happens

>"D-dont wanna replace muh guys! L-leave them alone!"

>>53273644
No, because it isn't just new equipment, that would have been fine. It's a new type of marine entirely that's bigger and badder than the old ones, meaning the old ones will eventually be phased out in universe and old classic special characters will just be left to the wayside for the most part unless they pull some bullshit plot contrivances or retcons out of their ass at which point what was the point of the new marines?

>>53271071
This is probably the best plot device that can be constructed. I like it.

Future history:

>In its darkest hour, humanity finds intact STC device
>Many heroes die getting it to earth (the only place it can be used, logic be damned)
>Great battles ensue as millions die buying time
>STC saves the day
>Enemies retreat in terror
>AdMech goes "mah precious" and tries to take the thing for them only forever. Shenanigans ensue as Inquisition, the marine chapter that found it, High Lords whatever get pissy with each other.
>Civil war nearly ensues
>???

I mean, it WILL keep the series going with somewhat less shit plot and new weapons n stuff.

>>53273744
Choas kicked it up a notch or several hundred
So the Imperium and Humanities staunchest shield and sharpest blades did the same
How is this hard to grasp?

>>53273496
He went in the 40's and earned many medals of his own Thunder nvention, and he stopped his rampage when he learned of the end of the war in 1949.

>>53273782
Again the problem people are having isn't that the Imperium has shiny new toys per se, but rather that their old and beloved marines are getting the same treatment as the Thunder Warriors but slower.

>>53273768
It also completely neuters Chaos as the Warp becomes completely irrelevant

>>53273841
They're specifically labelled as reinforcements not replacements

>>53273744
I don't think there's any reason to believe the old-style marines will stop being created. Doubtless some chapters won't adapt the new marines, and others may not have access. I fuckin guarantee there's a place in the lore for the old, smaller dudes. And much like with the Thunder Lords, the antagonisms inherent in replacement are super interesting, potentially.

Will GW keep making new manlet kits? Possibly not. But they'll keep printing the old ones. There's way too big a cataloge for them to do a total overhaul.

That all said, I'd be happy if they tossed the old midget marines in the trash forever. Just make new, bigger models for the special characters like they did with termies, and call it a day. (they won't do this though)

>>53273888
???
The warp is literally eating the galaxy

>>53273888
So win-win

>>53273925
I thought the fact that the warp was needed for FTL travel was causing it to expand?

>>53270701
>Why can't people accept that Space Marines could get upgrades?

Because Marinefags are mad they're not the center of attention anymore, not the best of the best anymore, and don't get all the new toys anymore.

Since I don't play Marines, I don't give a fuck, I just bathe in the salty tears.

>>53273940
An entire half of the imperium can't access the other now and didn't it expand because Cadia exploded and Choas finally stopped getting blueballed

>>53274013
>An entire half of the imperium can't access the other now
Right.

And if an STC is found then they get FTL travel that doesn't require the warp.

>>53273896
Let's be real here their replacements, that's clearly the direction GW are going.

Besides all the rumours that predicted these new marines also said they'd be a total replacement and that there wouldn't be new manlet marines.

>>53274030
I thought only the necrons have non warp ftl not even golden age humans

>>53274173
Golden Age humans had non warp FTL.

I'm not upset with the upgrade, I'm just a little miffed at the slightly-bigger-scale marines that aren't compatible with other space marine parts. It triggers my autism. I'm fine with elites but they've always been either fancier normal marines or bulky terminators.

I play the Guard. They're pretty cool.

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>>53274558
>A Fellow Guardsman

Keep up the good fight.

>>53274578
Thanks man, you too.

>>53274265
Wait really? But what about the Ark Mechanicus Speranza? That shit's from back then and it still used Warp based FTL.

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>>53272826
ok so what way did emps make them?

>>53274750
If I remember correctly they had non warp FTL but it was slower and started to use warp based FTL.

Don't quote me on this as it's been ages since I've looked this up.

>>53274849
>that ultramarine with the cyber-monocle

M'dear heretic, would you mind standing still for but a moment while I run you through? There's a good chap.

>>53273131
Unless my eyes deceive me, primaris marines look like theyre on 40mm bases. you can't compare them to 1ksons on a 1:1 basis. stick a sigmarite next to a space marine. this is going to be a more accurate size comparison.

Just wait for things to release before you start smearing your shirt all over GW doors.

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>>53274849
What's he smiling about bros

>>53272826
>the way modern space marines are made is not the way the Emperor made them
wot

It's the same way, the only difference is 40k marines have to go through a shitload of mental/genetic tests to make sure they don't go heresy crazy. That's where ATSKNF comes from.

>>53275425
he is figthing alongside his spiritual liege,

>>53271895
You guys just got plastic Thousand Son terminators not that long ago.

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>>53275425
>I say!
>I see what you did there

>>53275493
His actual liege

>>53272675
The fucked bits are the eye

>>53275315
>>53275561
Underrated. Have a (you).

>>53272379
>poor little wolf guy.jpg