Shadow War: Armageddon /swag/

First for grenades can't run out of ammo.

FAQs are third party material.

Playing games against your cat.

And being able to hide while crawling around wounded.

>>53254607
>Oh, and that other guy today who argued something was ok because the rules didn't say it wasn't
You are thinking of "I can hide even when I can crawl AND NOTHING ELSE."

I have actually come to enjoy SWAG threads for the sheer amount of retarded people in here. It is truly hilarious to watch some people grasp at straws, desperately trying to prove their faulty logic is right, like a ship crew attempting to fix a sinking ship with duct tape.

There is some strange satisfaction in watching the futile struggle. And it goes so well with a pack of popcorn.

>>53254985
Perfect.

It looks like we might actually be able to play bingo

>>53255039
>You are thinking of
That's the one.

>>53255100
I missed "tyranid arms" guy and "to hit modifier"guy.

What did they do?

>>53255039
>There is some strange satisfaction in watching the futile struggle.

I too share this feeling.

>>53255150
Tried to push their rules onto an actual group, got pissed, and quit.

>>53255150
"To hit modifiers are not used because the rules don't explain how you apply them ".

And the whole discussion about Tyranid number of arms and paired weapons.

>>53255150
>boneswords have an individual profile
>therefore, a Tyranid can only equip two bone swords because they don't have a rule that gives them extra arms

>nowhere in the rules does it tell you to apply hit modifiers to the attack roll
>hit modifiers don't do anything

>>53255209
>>53255215
After the FAQ arms guy then said that regardless of the FAQ saying yes, three bone swords means three parries, that you still don't get to use anything beyond the first two equipped because you don't need to be using the sword to parry with jt

When a model is pinned do you guys give it cover or improve its cover when it falls over and something obscures the shot?

>>53255542
It hides, obviously.

>>53255264
Unlike hit modifiers guy that one actually has basis in how the rules are written.

I really want an excuse to buy rubric marines. Could I use them as a decent chaos team? Maybe use them as grey knights?

>>53255542
Yeah. Pinning/downed calls for lying the model down, and the game uses Los to determine cover. If it's obscured or more obscured once it's down, it still gets the cover.

>>53255590
And you've outed yourself, armfag

>>53255599
Rubrics are non-psykers with infernal bolts. You can play them here.

For grey knights I'd make them up to be a sorcerer cabal.

>>53255264
You don't need to be fighting with something to get a parry from it. You can parry with a mirrorhelm, which is a helmet.

It's clearly the intent that tyranid warriors are meant to be able to fight with more than two weapons, but that just isn't what the rules say. RAW you don't even get 4 parries for having 4 boneswords because of bad wording.

Alpha Ranger
Phosphor Blast Pistol
190

Ranger
Galvanic Rifle
115

Ranger
Galvanic Rifle
115

Ranger
Galvanic Rifle
115

Fresh-Forged
65

Specialist
Transuranic Arquebus
270

Specialist
Arc Rifle
130

Total: 1000

>>53255783
It would have been nice if they could have been at all consistent about all hand to hand weapons having one profile and not giving boneswords and lash whips individual weapon profiles for some inexplicable reason even though there's no reason to do that. That's the sole reason this argument exists.

Alpha Ranger
Phosphor Blast Pistol
190

Specialist
Transuranic Arquebus
270

Specialist
Transuranic Arquebus
270

Specialist
Transuranic Arquebus
270

Total: 1000

That'd be fun. Shit, but fun. Get new recruits after first mission.

>>53255952
Honestly it would be really ineffective.

Your opponent could just run around behind cover until he's within 20" and just bum rush you.

>>53256152
Oh I know, I said it was shit, but it's the only way to get x3 Arquebus without expending caches. I really hate the lame "herp-de-derp you can't put scopes or dots on Cavalliers or Arc Rifles or literally good shit btw lol". A telescopic sight on an Arquebus makes it 90" range. Which is insane.

I could drop the Blast Pistol on the Alpha and go with Omnispex, make the Arquebus guys set-up within 6" of the Alpha and they ignore cover saves. So would fuck that tactic. However you're right in every other way. Orks or Genestealers will swamp me. If I was going against Nids, it'd be great!

Beginner making an IG team here.
Is it worth having a sidearm or reload when a dude has got a weapon with an ammo roll of 5+?

>>53256940
Not really, unless it's sustained fire.

>>53256940
not necessary for the first game but not a bad idea a couple games in. I've seen a lot of people overconfident with reload odds get screwed because of that. Especially if the reload is cheap, you may as well get one if it's a weapon that's expected to shoot more than a couple of times. If it's your leader that changes things, he should be making use of his voice of command rule whenever possible so guns aren't as important for him.

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>>53257218
>>53257122
Okay thanks guys!
I've got a metal mini I like a lot with a pistol and a shotgun, but don't wanna waste points on useless guns. Guess I'm gonna leave her on the side for now.

Also my sergeant has only got a bolt pistol and frag 'nades (pic related). Is it okay or should I change him for another mini?

Inquisitorial Kill Team
- Inquisitor w/ power armor, plasma pistol & reload
-Crusader w/ Storm shield
-Acolyte's x3 w/ boltguns
-Initiates x3 w/ boltgun's
1000 points
Too basic?

God dammit, why can't we have Scion teams?

Only way I can do it is Inquisitorial Acolytes + Lasgun + HSPP

>>53257593
>not guardsmen with hotshot powerpacks and carapace armour

>>53257593
...or literally just ordinary guard. You are supposed to get most of your cool shit from advances.

Marines lost literally every single chapter tactic. Yiffs for a consolation price, everybody else could go suck a dick. Can't even make a regular space marine kill team. It is either scouts or Grey Knights.

But sure, complain about the one thing you actually can replicate, without any issues whatsoever.

Jesus Christ guardfags are catfag levels of retarded sometimes.

>>53257700
>>53257805
Yeah but they don't have unique universal rules, special abilities or special weapons. Yes you can make things kinda match them, but you're missing the additional benefit for them having their own faction kill team.

>>53255951
I'd argue the sole reason this argument exists is because of autists needing to tickle their dickholes.

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>>53257593
>Lasgun + HSPP
boltguns, man

Ordo xenos acolytes with boltguns are literally 2e stormtroopers.

>>53257805

Was talking about this today with some mates and it's a real shame Deathwatch aren't playable outside special ops.

I'd much rather have a Deathwatch Kill team, which is an actual thing, as opposed to a Grey Knight one.

Especially when Daemons aren't playable but every alien race of note is.

Wait... Can you have 2 sets of Paired Boneswords, so 4 in total? You can have Bonesword and Whip + Pair of Bonesword for three parries...

I'm a retard, but I'm reading the FAQ for the game and there is questions in this fucking file that are EASILY FUCKING ANSWERABLE/EXPLAINED IN BOOK

>HERP DE DERP WHO GETS MARK OF CHAOS?
>it literally says everything bar Cultists get it

>>53257947
Yeah, but I think whip and 3 swords is a better deal.
You can only force a reroll once per die, so a situation where you forced 4 rerolls would mean that not only has the other player rolled 4 dice, but all 4 are higher than your highest die.

>>53257924
Isn't this because Death Watch are specifically in Kill Team rules? While this is Shadow War and is supposed to be for sneaky shit?

>>53257847
The only thing you're missing with making a "fake Scions" Guard list are the photo-visors, if you compare them with the spec-op Scion. And that bigger hotshot lasgun you get in normal 40k.
I guess having a "paratrooper" special rule like they had in the previous codex could be cool, but it wouldn't fit with the hive city theme. Can't drop troopers through a ceiling. And I don't see why the special rule for IG would'nt fit with Scions, they're supposed to be diciplined and good at coordination. Plus I don't see what they could have for spec-ops.
I really don't see why you're complaining. Scions are literally vets with carapace and hotshots.

>>53258042
Obviously, but I thought it'd still be cool. Thanks my man.

>>53258056
>sneaky shit
Yeah, GK and Sororitas are known for being real sneaky.

>>53258074
Because Scions are raised and trained differently. They're trained to be good from the get go, rather than being the survivors who survived by learning quicker than everybody else on the battlefield.

Yes, I understand you can make them to use their models, but I would still have liked some special rule and so on. That's all mate.

>>53258098
Well Grey Knights are sneaky in terms of being small in number, disciplined and using psyker abilities to hide themselves from view (at least in fluff they do). As for Soroitas, there are literally books based around them being sneaky until needing to fight shit.

But either way, my wording of 'sneaky' is shit like ambush and blowing up supply depots. Not necessary Catachan tier stuff.

I also agree with you it's a bit odd and the reason I guess is because Kill Team is it's own rule system and a lot more basic, so you can do it with that. I wouldn't be surprised if GW is doing it specifically to sell us another book.

>>53258056
>this is Shadow War and is supposed to be for sneaky shit?
deathwatch are all about sneaky shit, though

>>53258074
>Can't drop trooprs through a ceiling

Someone hasn't heard of german counter terrorism teams

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>>53258207
Special forces you say?

>>53258196
>Well Grey Knights are sneaky in terms of being small in number, disciplined and using psyker abilities to hide themselves from view (at least in fluff they do). As for Soroitas, there are literally books based around them being sneaky until needing to fight shit.
You're right, I was being a smartass.

> I wouldn't be surprised if GW is doing it specifically to sell us another book.
Like, another book for SW? What else could they put in here? Demons? Aspect warriors? Mercenaries?
I'd like to see an advancement system for Spec Ops. Obviously they would go away after the mission you paid them for, but you could choose them for advancement if they took part in a mission and survived, or something like that.

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>mfw FAQ makes it impossible for CSM to attach red-dot sights to flamers/melta guns
>mfw SoB can still do it
>including Heavy Flamer

W E W laddie boy, the Pipes, the Pipes are calling!

>>53258304
Daemons, other Aspect Warriors, Corsairs, Exodites, Sisters of Silence, Adeptus Custodes? Simply adding more warrior options to the current armies? More skills? More equipment? More mission types? More progression (like traits or something?)?

They did it for Necromunda (I hope E3 gives us some footage of the vidya game) and Mordheim and shit.

>>53258386
It's ok, it's only third party material so my group will ignore it.

>>53258386
The weird 'some can-some can't' red-dot meltas is one thing, but if some autist wants a sight on his flamer he's free to blow those points.

>want a sniper sister because I think it would be cool
>the closest thing in a Battle Sister team is a multi-melta or heavy bolter with telescopic sight
Such is life in the Adepta.

>>53258493
Oh I know mate, I'm just laughing at the absurdity of it desu.

>>53258483
>official GW Erratas/FAQs is 3rd party material

Wuh?

Hm. Just realized SWA probably won't be updated for 8th edition. Pity.

>>53258604
>Wuh?
I take it you weren't in the previous thread?

Some dude argued that because the FAQ/Errata wasn't on the "main GW site" it could be fake.

>>53258587
>>want a sniper sister because I think it would be cool
>>the closest thing in a Battle Sister team is a multi-melta or heavy bolter with telescopic sight
>Such is life in the Adepta.
Anon, I've got some bad news...

Here it is, on the official site:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/05/shadow-war-armageddon-your-questions-answered/

>>53258645
Oh god damn. No I wasn't. I've tried to avoid /tg/ for ages.

>>53258621
Why does it need to be? It's a different game, uses different rules.

>>53258587
How is a heavy bolter a sniper really, anyway?

>>53258705
Ah crap I'm dumb. Missed that bit on the telescopic sight paragraph.
No snipers for the sisters then.

>>53258751
Longest range in the Sisters arsenal, that's why I chose it.

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Here's the Sgt I've painted for my team, and here's the list :

++ Astra Militarum Veterans (Astra Militarum Veteran Kill Team) [1000pts] ++

+ Uncategorised +

Regiment: Cadian

+ Leader [180pts] +

Veteran Sergeant [180pts]: Camo gear [5pts], Flak armour
. Boltgun [55pts]: Telescopic sight [20pts]

+ Troopers [270pts] +

Veteran Guardsman [90pts]: Camo gear [5pts], Flak armour, Lasgun [25pts]

Veteran Guardsman [90pts]: Camo gear [5pts], Flak armour, Lasgun [25pts]

Veteran Guardsman [90pts]: Camo gear [5pts], Flak armour, Lasgun [25pts]

+ Specialists [550pts] +

Special Weapons Operative [200pts]: Camo gear [5pts], Flak armour
. Grenade launcher [125pts]: Krak and Frag grenades [125pts]

Special Weapons Operative [175pts]: Camo gear [5pts], Flak armour
. Plasma gun [100pts]: Telescopic sight [20pts]

Special Weapons Operative [175pts]: Camo gear [5pts], Flak armour
. Plasma gun [100pts]: Telescopic sight [20pts]

++ Total: [1000pts] ++

Is it a decent starting point for guard? Hoping to get it together soon and join my local's campaign.

For those who don't venture outside of 4chan the version 2 FAQ that GW put out last Thursday.

https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/ShadowWarFAQv2May2017.pdf

>>53245798
>taking a grenadier novice and a bolter specialist
You can't do that though, a Grenadier can't take a boltgun. Read the Wargear properly.

>>53259703
Looks solid.
The spread of special weapons should give you a leg up when it comes to dealing with different types of armies.

Drill out your bolter barrel, though.

>>53259798
Thanks, I was thinking after my first re-arm I'd go about getting a 4th lasgun vet, and get as much grenades on bodies as possible. Would krak grenades be a better choice first so I'm not suffering at the hands of nids or are my special weapons sufficient for that?

I'm working on getting a small drill for barrels.

Do you guys think it'd be alright if I used a Scourge head as the mirrorhelm for my Syren? Box of Wyches only has 2 and I need 3.

>>53258074
>Can't drop troopers through a ceiling
How about tunnels and vents?

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>>53255039
Dot forget the dipshit that was payijg for skills at team creation, arguing it completely legit. Thst fucking faggot.

Test

>>53259703
Lookin damn good

>>53260026
Here's the list I plan to use. Any input is welcome.


++ Kill Team (Dark Eldar Kill Team) [985pts] ++

+ Leader +

Syren [240pts]: Blade Venom, Blast Pistol, Chainhook, Mirrorhelm

+ Troopers +

Wych [120pts]: Blade Venom, Chainhook, Splinter Pistol

Wych [120pts]: Blade Venom, Chainhook, Splinter Pistol

+ Specialists +

Bloodbride [155pts]: Mirrorhelm, Shardnet and Impaler

Bloodbride [130pts]: Hydra Gauntlets

+ New Recruits +

Debutante [110pts]: Blade Venom, Chainhook, Splinter Pistol

Debutante [110pts]: Blade Venom, Chainhook, Splinter Pistol

++ Total: [985pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

>>53260827
Whoops. That's an old one.

I added a Mirrorhelm to the Hydra Gauntlet Bloodbride and took off the Chainhook from one of the Debutantes. Becomes 1000/1000.

>>53259794
He was talking about a novice sister with grenades and a specialist with a bolter, then giving bolter to novice after the rearm phase at end of game to save points

>>53261078
Yes, you can't do that. Sororitas Specialists cannot take Basic Weapons, it's not in their wargear. They can't just take a boltgun.

>>53261096
Ah damn you're right. Same goes for CSM.

>>53261155
They can really gimp themselves and take a bolt pistol but yeah, otherwise they have to take the specialist weapons.

>>53260856
Here's the updated list.


++ Kill Team (Dark Eldar Kill Team) [1000pts] ++

+ Leader +

Syren [240pts]: Blade Venom, Blast Pistol, Chainhook, Mirrorhelm

+ Troopers +

Wych [120pts]: Blade Venom, Chainhook, Splinter Pistol

Wych [120pts]: Blade Venom, Chainhook, Splinter Pistol

+ Specialists +

Bloodbride [155pts]: Mirrorhelm, Shardnet and Impaler

Bloodbride [150pts]: Hydra Gauntlets, Mirrorhelm

+ New Recruits +

Debutante [110pts]: Blade Venom, Chainhook, Splinter Pistol

Debutante [105pts]: Blade Venom, Splinter Pistol, Wych Knife

++ Total: [1000pts] ++

Also any input about the Scourge helm being re-purposed as a Mirrorhelm would be nice.

so, this is probably a stupid question, but how many arms do tyranid warriors have? i cant seem to find it in their entry.

>>53261652
Look at a model and think long and hard about your intentions with life.

>>53261652
4. They get 2 weapons choices.

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>>53261652
as many as you can glue to the model hombre

>>53261701
See, thats what i thought too at first, then i saw;
If a fighter has more than two pairs
of arms and carries a hand-to-hand
weapon in each hand, then the fighter
rolls one extra Attack dice in hand-tohand
combat. Any hits are inflicted
by cycling through the weapons they are using in an order chosen by the
controlling player.
which implies that 6 arms is also possible, as with the raveners, so i figured id ask.

>>53261752
It's only possible with the ravener. The rule is there exclusively for the ravener, same as the rule for 3 sets of scything talons.

>>53261752
There's been a lot of speculation and confusion about that rule overall but as written, it literally only applies to raveners.

>>53261748
This. I mean, GorkaMorka was the same way with boyz on trukks.

>>53258030
Maybe it's a british catfag on british 4chan whose jealous of british chaos marines?

>>53261794
>>53261801
Thats what i figured, but wasnt sure, thanks for the timely replies.

>>53261801
There shouldn't be any, the rules for arming them are absolutely clear:

Each nid comes with scything talons and chitin. They must be armed with another weapon from the lists they have access to.

In the rules for nids resupplying it clearly states you can only replace what they have.

My leader has a plasma pistol in my current list, but I have a spare 5pts floating after I've got everything else sorted. I could upgrade to a storm bolter, but then I would have no high-impact weapon, which might come back to bite me in the ass cause I might be versing Harlequins, Nids and Grey Knights.

Do I take the risk /swag/?

>>53261860
When you are resupplying your kill team, a fighter from a Tyranid Warrior kill team can replace any of its Handto-Hand Bio-weapons, Basic Bio-weapons and/or Bio- cannons for another weapon as appropriate (provided that you also have enough points to do so).

It actually doesnt say in there "can only replace things it has" at any point, just that it is possible to replace previous purchases.

>>53257305
It's ok.

So running rubric marines as chaos, from the contents of the box it looks like I'm Gonna have to run an aitocannon, a flames, and the rest boltguns. Will this be okay, or should I try to find the bits for other weapons?

>>53260602
That's catfag

>>53262099
It's possible to replace the scything talons at creation too (it's in the faq).

>>53261227
Anyone?

>>53263083
If people give you shit about the helmet they're probably not people you'd want to play with anyway

>>53263096
Cool. I really only play in my friend group and I doubt they'll care about WYSIWYG too much.

How about the list?

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>>53263134
Idk anything about how dark eldar play in this game
seems pretty good to me though

>>53259703
I like it. Camo gear does more work than you think it would, and having two telescopic plasma guns will be disgusting right off the bat.

Get reloads for your plasma ASAP. You will need it. I fully expect at least one of your guns will run out of ammo in the first game you play.

>>53257847
Space marines also lost the things that was fundamental to them. You cannot replicate them. At all.

Death watch is impossible to make. *The* Kill Team, is not available.

But lets complain about not skydropping into the lower levels of a hive city (????) Or having photo visors. That's a lot more glaring, clearly.

>>53258030
Yeah the faq questions really tell you who the average person playing the game is. The amount of "can I do this?" When the rules VERY SPECIFICALLY tell you if you can or not, is just staggering.

Half of the answers should have been "RTFM"

>>53263665
Problem is that they have read but not comprehended.

>>53263809
>>53263665
Or are intentionally twisting the intent because WAAC

>>53258042
>>53258094
don't forget, parries cancel other parries. so fighting a guy who can parry twice with three boneswords means one parry for you.

>>53261227
Here's my main girl, the Syren. Still haven't come up with a name for her, but I think that bent ponytail and Scourge mask should do as a Mirrorhelm.

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>>53264098
>forgot image

I'll clean up more moldlines/flakes tomorrow.

>>53262851
Make up 4-6 (about 3-4 for your team, marines are expensive, and one or two to possibly recruit later), then source some bitz to give equip the others in the box with a variety of weapons.

>>53261652
Tyranid warriors have 4 arms. They buy their wargear options for each pair of arms, usually a gun per each 2 arms or a pair of CCW weapons per two arms.

>>53258042
Parry are optional, you are not obliged to forced the opponent to re-roll all the dice.

>>53264113
Why not use the actually mirror helm from the box?

>>53264218
Because the 2 that it comes with are going on my Bloodbrides. I'd rather have uniformity there.

>>53264226
Harlequin head can be good replacement for mirrorhelm, They have both Ponytail and mo hawk head too, Look much better than scourge head.

Reaver head are also a good one.

>>53263884
That too.

>>53264271
I wish I had a Reaver head. I might rip it off and order a Harley head or an actual Mirrorhelm, though.

>>53264301
I think the head you have there looks badass tho. You could smooth it out with a little greenstuff to give it a flat surface and get rid of the eyes, but the shape is cool.

>>53264345
I don't have any greenstuff except liquid greenstuff, so all I think I can do is smooth it down with a file and fill the eyes...

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>>53264345
>>53264362
Idea....With some more meticulous filing I can have a virtually smooth surface, lay some liquid greenstuff on it to bring it back out and then file that off.

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>>53264345
>>53264362
>>53264460
I said "Fuck it, we'll do it live." Bam. Mirrorhelm. The primer will get the rest of the inconsistencies and smooth it out.

>>53264639
Looks promising.

>>53264172
I think he was saying that you're not going to need those 4 parries often and when you have to use them you're probably in for a bad time anyway.
Not that you're forced to make your opponent reroll.

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Been a month and a half since I bought first minis. Now have a killteam (sorta, need to make more cultists) and starting to get some of the terrain done too.
I have some immortals/deathmarks coming in to make a player 2 team for my brother to play and they should be much quicker to paint if the warrior I tried is indicative

new in SWAg
Is SoB fun to play? Or playable at least?

>>53261652
They have two arms, like everything else in the game since it is not specified otherwise.

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There was an Ork Bro who posted his list here that the thread helped build him, if anyone has it or has an ork list mine is not working out,
I had to build from the games set and I have been going for 'fun' but id like to be alittle bit more competitive for a match among friends coming up

>Boss nob = 160
>Slugga = 10
>Reload = 5
>Power klaw = 85

>Spanner boy = 70
>Rokkit launcha = 130

>Spanner boy = 70
>Big shoota = 150

>Boy = 60
>Slugga = 10
>Buzz-choppa = 15

>Boy = 60
>Shoota =25

>Yoof = 30
>Slugga = 10
>Choppa = 10

>Yoof = 30
>Sluggas = 20

>Yoof = 30
>Choppas = 20

Total = 1000

>>53261860
>In the rules for nids resupplying it clearly states you can only replace what they have.
No it doesn't it says that they can replace what they currently have. It doesn't state, or even imply that they can't buy more than two weapons as all fighters can do that and nothing says that they are prohibited from doing so.

>>53267286
It also clearly states that all weapons except grenades and knifes should be represented on the minis. If you manage to:
1) Make Tyranids that do not look like shit with more than 4 weapons;
2) Have your play group agree;
Then go ahead.
However I doubt they would agree because you sound like an annoying rule-lawyer. But you never know.

>>53267261
Hello armfag

>>53267354
I'm not actually going to do that, because that would be retarded.

The point is that the statement that tyranids can only replace existing weapons is factually false as the rules in no way prohibit them from buying more weapons.

So when someone asks
>it clearly states you can only replace what they have.
They are full of shit. That is not something that is stated at all and it needs FAQ/Errata.

>>53267354
>Make Tyranids that do not look like shit with more than 4 weapons;
There's no stipulation that your models have to not look like shit. Hell it'd be a problem if there was, I don't know about yours but half the kill teams in my campaign looked like ass.

>>53267574
The rules also doesn't state that you can't field a rhino and since it doesn't have a point cost you can field it for free.

Tyranids and their weapons are symbiotic. While I agree that this is not clarified in the rules I think that anyone wanting to do something because "the rules doesn't prohibit it" are on the wrong track and should be smacked back in line.

well after reading a lot i'm pretty undecided what to build first. could you help me decide, /SWAG/?
I have a ton of CSM, nids and orks, I could muster an DE, IG, skitarii and inq kill team from those half finished/half started other projects I have lying around.

So I have a lot of metal minis lying around. I grabbed some of my faves and here is the resulting IG team. I still have 105 points to use but I don't really know what I should add. I have enough minis and bits to make about anything you could think of.

-Sergeant "Death-Dodger"
Frag grenades
Bolt Pistol
170

Veteran "Ramirez"
-Lasgun
85

Veteran "Arnold"
-Lasgun
-Telescopic sight
-Camo
110

Specialist "Juggernaut"
-Frag grenades
-Carapace armour
-Meltagun
210

Specialist "Crazy Ivan"
-Lasgun
-Demolition charge
145

Specialist "The Mute"
-Camo
-Sniper rifle
-Telescopic sight
-Toxic rounds
-Reload
175

Total: 895

I could easily consider Arnold and the Mute to not have camo since they are only wearing some kind of diminutive, forest themed camo net and we're going to be playing on an urban table. I can also easily stick some grenades to Ramirez belt. Maybe some other light cutting and gluing.

>>53267692
>The rules also doesn't state that you can't field a rhino and since it doesn't have a point cost you can field it for free.
The difference is that the rules *do* say that a fighter can be armed with any amount of weapons. Within the context of a permissive ruleset you do not have permission to take a rhino since there are no rules provided for a rhino and no provision for fielding one in the rules.

what you have with tyranid resupply rules is fighters who have permission given to take any amount of weapons who also have permission to replace their weapons with other weapons.

They have explicit permission to do both.

>>53267684
There's a diffence between your average "badly-painted-badly-assembled" shitty look and the "four-arms-glued-to-my-warrior-back-because-the-rules-don't-say-I-can't" shitty look.

>>53267574
Ah sorry, we get lots of dumbasses on /swag/.

But anyway, would an eight-armed tyranid really be useful?

>>53267788
There would be some value. You could have 3 pairs of scything talons, which gives you +2 WS for only 30 points and would allow you to re-roll to wound rolls and then also a pair of boneswords, which he'd actually fight with for 2 parries.

What do you think the chances are that ForgeWorld will release anything for Shadow War?

>>53268457
0%
At some point there will probably be an outright necromunda re-release but there's no reason for FW to do anything specifically for SW:A.

>>53268511
>there's no reason for FW to do anything specifically for SW:A.
$$$$?

>>53268457
There's nothing that needs to be released for SWA, all of the lists are based on boxes that already exist. Business-wise it's a smart move, it's got people grabbing boxes of factions they wouldn't normally play, buying the book, and getting engaged with games that are generally quicker to set up and play.

>>53268544
>SW:A uses only basic infantry
>FW already produce basic infantry

>>53268457
What they've already done by saying "Hey, death korps are usable in shadow wars!" is about as far as it's going to go.

That guy who homebrewed underhive gangs for SWA: what would you say to the idea of having spyrers as special operatives? I thought it'd be a cool idea, and it'd save my Orrus from just collecting dust.

>>53267699
Specialists can't take basic weapons

>>53267747
But it is not logical that a warrior would lug around a dead or dormant sentient creature, so it's bending the rules, however vague they may be, to claim they can.

>>53269023
As a special operative? That wouldn't make much sense.

Either as their own kill team or buffed to shit as lone operatives? That might work. Though making them generic would be difficult as fuck.

>>53268818
Wait.. Krieg has rules?

>>53269108
Definitely an elite faction imo.

>>53269108
I think it makes sense if you look at the gangs as banding together to fight the filthy xenos/crazy soldiers killing people/disgusting Chaos heretics. Other than that, you're right.

I feel like I am being needlessly worried here, but please confirm or deny for me.

The local group of 7 people are having a campaign. It is intended to be a long one, with the house rule that you can always hire a new leader if the old one dies.

Now, one of them, a CSM player, got 2 easy leader kills in his first 2 games, 1 against Tau, the other against Grey Knights.

Now I feel like he'll slowly begin his snowball, into a completely unstoppable monster.

I play the Nid kill team, and I am very worried about the development. If he keeps getting free, permanent advances, then wont he become completely unstoppable later on in the campaign? He already looks way stronger than most of the other guys, and even I am worried, despite having Nids.

Is there supposed to be a cap on this? Or can he just continue to get infinite advances like this? His Warband consisting of his leader + a ton of cultists to support him, makes it quite easy for him to dart straight for the leaders it seems.

>>53269091
Tyranid weapons don't die when not in use and a weapon doesn't necessarily need to be disconnected from the creature in order to be stowed elsewhere on its person.

>>53269055
Oh shit, thanks.

So I can make Ivan a normal vet with krak grenades or/and melta bombs.
And it frees a specialist slot. I still don't really know what to do with it.

>>53269122
They're a guard regiment, genius.

>>53269122
You have Steel Legion, Cadians and Catachans.

Pick whatever you feel like matches them best.

>>53264113
Looks bretty good

>>53269228
You're playing nids, just eat him with your melee bugs. Also make sure to roll guerilla on your leader until you get scavenger.

He can get infinite skills but can only get 1 advance on each attribute.

>>53267747
Any fighter can already get new weapons and discard old ones. It makes no sense for the specific Tyranid resupply rule to be in addition to the usual ones, as it would affect nothing. The only sensible conclusion is that those rules replace the usual ones.

Besides, if you really want rules lawyering
>Wargear: A Tyranid Warrior has a pair of scything talons and a chitin carapace.
>In addition, a Tyranid Warrior must be armed with one item chosen from the Tyranid Hand-to-Hand Bio-weapons or Basic Bio-weapons list.
Taken literally, they can't replace their talons and must have exactly one other weapon choice. But the former part is obviously not intended.

>>53269507
>Taken literally, they can't replace their talons and must have exactly one other weapon choice. But the former part is obviously not intended.
People take rules literally, because that's how you're supposed to use rules. Which is why this specific issue was a question answered in the FAQ.

>>53269243
Source?

>>53269262
Yes but only cadian Steel legion and catachan have rules.

>>53269611
Except the FAQ confirms that you aren't supposed to take that literally at all. It also states they can't swap weapons, which implies that the usual resupply rules don't apply.

>>53269228
>Grey Knights
>an easy melee kill

What.

>>53269507
The errata/faq specifies that they can replace weapons tho.

>>53269611
>because that's how you're supposed to use rules
No. Definitely not. Rules are always open to interpretation. The question is whether or not a certain interpretation is reasonable or not.

>>53269680
Yes, exactly? It confirms what I said: that was not what was intended. You should not be interpreting rules as if they were computer code unless you're a servitor.

>>53269695
I agree with him in the sense that rules should be written insuch a way that retarded interpretations are easy to refute, something at which GW is quite bad.
But if you're not playing with assholes or literal retards most of the time it still works fine.

>>53269758
People who hold the position that rules should be played as written are not going to be convinced by any kind of argument based on what you or any one else, or even they themselves think the intent of the writer was. That is entirely irrelevant to them, they only care about what is written in the book.

That's why things like that need FAQs and it's why this conversation will happen over and over again.

>>53269758
How do you mean? It's under the faq part. Faq cover questions about the existing rules. Errata correct or change rules. This is under faq, therefor as intended.

>>53269908
That's an argument thing in general. You can't convince someone of anything by making an argument based on a principle the other person doesn't acknowledge as valid.

It's why you can't teach a SJW that you shouldn't insert female marines into 40k because that violates established lore. They don't care about that because the fundamental purpose of fiction is to help achieve social justice, so the entire line of argumentation is pointless.

>>53269863
Right. Agreed.

CAN I FIELD A DREADNOUGHT?
CAN I FIELD A TERMINATOR KILL TEAM?
TELL ME NOW

>>53270302
No and no.

>>53270302
No.

You can RENT a terminator.

>>53270016
Yes, it confirms that the intended meaning was to allow swapping talons, which is not what you get from reading it literally.

>>53269908
True. Fucking Barthes.

>>53270323
HOW?!?

>>53270351
With oil.

>>53270351
PROMETHIUM

WHY CAN'T I FIELD A TERMINATOR TEAM

Man I can't decide of I should give a big choppa and a shoota or a powerklaw to my nob.

>>53270575
big choppa + combi-shoota

>>53270691
Why that? I get it the sustained fire is going to be pretty great, but in the previous thread some anon said a klaw was basically a guaranteed kill every turn you are in melee.

>>53270380
>>53270351
>>53270302
Holy shit, are you OK M8? You're either a couple of Monsters out of your depth, underage, or both.

>>53270763
Yeah, the klaw is beastly but it's expensive and the big choppa is enough to crush people your basic one wound duders in melee. The klaw is wasted against things that aren't terminators or tyranid warriors.

Meanwhile the combi-shooter is sustained fire 2 meaning it has the same fire rate as a heavy bolter.

>>53270763
A lot of weapons are pretty much a guaranteed kill, power klaw/fist are kinda overkill and expensive.

>>53270763
Claws are overrated and overkill against anything but nids.

>>53270876
>>53270870
Okay, should be okay with a big choppa then, I don't think there are many nids players in my area, and the only one I know is pretty bad.
Thanks!

>>53270332
Alright then, we agree. I read you wrong.

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>>53259703
>barrel not drilled

>>53267268
That was me a couple days ago. List is:

1x Nob with Eavy Armour and Big Choppa
1x Spanner Boy with Big Shoota
3x Boyz with Choppa and Stikkbombs
1x Boy with Buzz-Choppa
4x Yoofs with Shoota

I'll be honest, I don't know how to play this game well. I've only played 4 games so far. 1 vs another noob playing scouts, 2 vs an experienced player playing Tau, and 1 vs a decent player playing chaos. I got my shit rocked vs tau and chaos. I can't seem to close the distance fast enough to get into assault, maybe don't have enough bodies, im not sure. This is also the first time ive ever played Orks. Im an Imperium player in 40k so the concept of never having a save is new to me. Its really demoralizing desu. Im not playing them right, but I can't see how to do better. Probably need to play with more terrain too.

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Version 1.1
- Nerfed photon flash grenades, now they're basically just 0 damage prismatic grenades with a large blast. Still useful, less incredibly powerful.
- Added needle pistols.
- Fixed lack of " on movement values.

When I edit weapon stats the tables like to jump around all over the place, if anything seems like it's not in the right place please tell me.

Played a game yesterday, borrowed an Ork army. Had fun and decided to make my first list for a Guard team. Sarge has a shotgun, 2 SWOs one with Sniper Rifle and the other a Grenade Launcher, 3 Vet Guardsmen, 4 Recruits, everyone has Camo gear, flak armor, and lasguns.

>>53271455
You go girl.

>>53271455
>Fixed an error that made it into actual GW pdfs

>>53271455
Indenting on things like the Wargear sections looks weird. About twice what GW uses.
Second rate gear: line break in the middle of "-1".
Members: "minimum of 3-15 models" should be "3-15 models"
Wargear; Photon Flash Flares, Heavy Stubber, and Heavy Bolter are the only entries in Title Case.
Massive axe: "wielders" should be "wielder's"
Needle Pistol: long range should be 8-16, not 2-16.
Autocannon: described as "auto-cannon"

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>>53272122
Well that was fast.

>>53272495
Well that was fast.

>>53272495
>>53272916
Oh nvm. Thought you made the changes already. :)

>>53272495
I still see "minimum of 3-15 models".
The list in the second special rule leads each item with "for" except "expending a promethium cache".
Wargear restrictions merge with the lists too much. I think GW uses a slightly smaller font.

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>>53272967

>>53273069
So.. I had this idea once, to 3d print the models of the characters from TF2 in 28 mm scale (the models are available for download as 3d print files online), but I never really figured out how to fit them into Necromunda.

I think this is it.

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>>53267268
are you doing a campaign or just pick up games, that changes the initial list quite substantially.

Here's my planned starter list for my next campaign

Nob - Slugga

Spanna Boy - Big Shoota

x4 Boys w/ slugga

x6 yoofs w/ shootas

1000pts on the nose, and 12 models to start out.

Obviously after the first game you splurge on a bit of kit, then from there focus on another bigshoota and add boyz/yoofs to taste.

You want boyz as your CC specialists and Yoofs as your shooting specialists. Reason why is because boyz are better in close combat and are harder to pin down. Meanwhile yoofs have the same BS and are cheaper, so they work better for suprressing the enemy with volume of fire.

>>53273785
But which merc would be your gang leader?

>>53273923
Ha, no idea. I haven't thought of that.

>>53273785
I only gave you 2 specialists and didn't include medi-packs.

>>53273995
Well, I obviously will have to choose between the special weapons. Heavy flamer, grenade launcher and autocannon/heavy stubber. Sniper rifle is basic. Medic goes out the window and possibly also engineer. So I'll have to make juves of the scout and spy, and fill up with soldiers.

>>53273995
>>53274061
Oh, sniper is special for underhive gangs.. Nvm then.. :)

Hey, it finally allowed me to fix this.
https://shadow-war.zone/battle-killteam/454/julius-s-fab-adventure

Does anyone here use it? Another anon pointed it out but I'm not sure how popular it is.

>>53273995
You can fabricate a sniper with an autogun, telescopic sight and red-dot sight, so that frees up a specialist slot.

then you can do soldier and heavy as heavies with missile launcher and heavystubber/bolter/autocannon respectively, then take demoman as your leader with a grenade launcher.

That leaves pyro hanging, but you can make him a normal dude with a hand flamer, since those are unrestricted.

>>53274085
Nah. I use battlescribe. The app is pretty useful to have in your mobile device when going to a game.
>>53274101
Oh right. Soldier has missile launcher too. But really.. I can't leave pyro hanging. And having a heavy flamer counts as hand flamer is a bit too much imo. :)

>>53274101
The rest of your suggestions are ace tho. But how to get pyro in there...

>>53274239
I think you're going to have to compromise the integrity of somebody there. There's too much stuff that would be considered special/heavy.

>>53273935
>>53273923
Medic. I have friends who played competitive TF2 and most of the time the medic was tasked with staying alive and coordinating the team's actions.

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Finished them right before my local league started, takin em out for a spin tonight.

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>>53262860
Fucking cat fag...missed the cat part, quick rundown?

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>>53267261
Post a pic of your team

>>53275861
You're just asking for someone with warriors with magnetized arms to post a KT consisting of warriors with 2 arms.

>>53275566
Fabulous! And good luck, anon.

>>53275831
To put it simply, he said he could play a campaign against his cat to gain advances and then recruit his boosted dudes in a new team he would bring at his LGS/group campaign and it was perfectly legal because they gained these advances in a previous campaign.

>>53276285
Seems fair, I mean, what if his cat is really in to it?

>>53276341
I mean if you have a hyperintelligent cat I guess, but seeing as those don't actually exist it's not really an option.

Unless nekopara is real.

Wait, is nekopara real, I don't remember.

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>>53276341
I guess.

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>>53276285
Beating the pussy

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>>53276395
>nekopara
Try again, but this time pick a good game.

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>>53276743

>>53276743
>Implying Nekopara isn't good

>>53271264
I also am new to orks, I always wanted to own a few models but didn't want a full army. I am not sure how to play them now I get out shot by everything then wrecked in close combat by nids
Havn't vs tau or chaos yet
>>53273906
I see what your both doing, thanks heaps, I see now im quite thin and I need those numbers, Ill miss having my rockit launcher although it never really hits anything.

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Anyone else going to convert their Sisters of Silence into sexy streamlined pointy-leg-plates-n-capes Sisters of Battle?

>>53273906
So basically more dakka,
Are you playing run and gun, so pin them then charge them into cc?

>>53277030
Run yoofs in front of boyz as meat shields, when you get within range have them take cover and spray bullets at the enemy while the boyz go on ahead.

As nice as they are Bs2 single shot is... Crap.
Would only ever even think of using it if regularly fighting Nids.

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>>53277030
>>53276981
Keep in mind, I have not used orks in this yet.

I have however played multiple games as IG, Nids, and Chaos, probably 20 between the 3 all told.

The main plan is to keep a few yoofs with the big shoota to give him ablative wounds. Then run the mob of the nob, boyz, and some yoofs up the board to smash in one side of the enemy's line. We play with a ton of terrain so if I keep them on the ground it won't be "too" difficult to get in close. I'm not going to pack them in super close but the nob will probably roll with at least a couple boyz so when he charges something the boyz can pitch in and assure that I kill it.

Once I have a game in and can get some upgrades, plan is to give the nob a kombi-shoota with red dot/reload/clip harness, and big choppa, and get a red dot/reload, and clip harness on the spanna.

After that, more boyz/yoof following the same template I have here. As yoofs upgrade to boyz I may turn them into slugga boyz but I honestly expect to just have them hang onto their shootas. I'm a dakka guy at heart and honestly am just running a few slugga boyz to say I'm not a complete git.

Will start the campaign early on trying for guerilla skills by advancing the nob, honestly all of them are handy. Scavenger helps me front load on boyz, armormonger helps with the fact that at some point a shoota boy is gonna blow his gun up, die hard and destined for greatness are no brainers, and medic/hunt on the promethium sprawl are good too. It's critical you use your nob for this as he's pretty much guaranteed that he's going on a mission if he can. Even with our special rule letting us double the guys we bring on limited deployment missions, it's still important to make sure you have at least a few vets that know what they're doing.

>>53277209
In reference to rokkits
>>53276981

>>53277209
>single shot

They should have shootas for sustained fire. Won't be able to go wrong with that, at least one of the gits should hit something.

>underhive gang anon updated
GLORIOUS

>>53277219
As an ork player i have to say that you should never buy sluggas, they are like seven kinds of awful.
And never understimate the power of 5 yoffs with shootas, that +1 on short distances and the red-dots, make them ded killy for just 70 points.

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>>53277874
Also because people keep talking about spyrers I started trying to figure out how the fuck to make them as a kill team with the horrible problem of making them not Necromunda specific, having customizability and somehow doing power boosts.

Basically each piece of equipment has a list of (usually 2) power boost effects it can have. When you get an advance, either normally or because of a 6 on the injury table you get to apply a power boost to one of the pieces of equipment.

Does this sound rational?

>>53277947
Also ignore the grammatical errors and points costs.

>>53277947
As the samefag who brought them up this thread, you are awesome. And yeah, that sounds useable.

As for them not being Necromunda specific: they're blatantly Tau in origin, so it's all too easy for that stuff to fall in the hands of rich and tech-heretical nobles, Rogue Traders, that sort of thing.

>>53278187
Necromunda predates the concept of tau by a huge number of real world years.

The link between the two because of tau words being basically the same as the names of some of the suits is something that showed up exactly once when tau were first introduced and has never been expanded upon or even mentioned ever again in any way.

You may as well forget it even exists.

>>53278397
There's also the problem that in actual lore terms the existence of spyrer hunter rigs predates tau interstellar civilization.

>>53277947
honestly, the problem with spyrers is that they're just upfront strong and boring otherwise.

>>53277905
what about for close combat? Basically the only reason I'm taking 4 slugga boys is because the sluggas combine with the shanks to give them an extra attack. Have them gang up on a target and at least one should take it out with that many attacks.

I plan on having my bulk of my guys packing shootas as well, I just figured having a few slugga boyz gives me something to finish off things that I pin with the shootas.

>>53278397
>>53278457
I put the idea of Spyker suits being made by the Tau firmly in the category of bad ideas that were rightfully dropped and forgotten about.

>>53278490
That's a problem that doesn't really impact SW:A, since it applies to most of the kill teams anyway.

>>53276341
Hello catfag

>>53278457
Tau were a warlike race before they reached the tech level they do. Who's to say the spyrer suits aren't just heavily Imperialised versions of early battlesuit designs back when they were kicking the shit out of each other?

>>53279188
Tau were primitives beating on each other with rocks right up until they got sucked into a warpstorm, and came out the other end as the tau we know and hate, with a dystopian caste-system and expansionistic tendencies. Theres no inbetween for this cross-pollination of tech to occur.

>>53279188
The imperium had no contact with the tau for 6,000 years after first contact. At the point of first contact they had a neolithic level of technology.

>>53279332
>the tau we know and hate
>hate
Nah.

>>53279350
Is there evidence of spyrers having access to these suits before the warp storm abated?
Say what you like, I think the concept of them being originally Tau is pretty nice.

>>53278504
Just give them a choppa, it's s+1, so you have -1 to armor saves instead of just s4.
Two choppas for each boy, and a big choppa for the nob.

>>53279407
Being a spyrer is is a tradition of all of the noble houses on Necromunda. Necromunda was integrated into the Imperium during the great crusade and is generally not said to have changed significantly since M33.

Realistically Spyrers have probably been doing their thing since the horus heresy, if not before.

>>53276184
Unfortunately I had 2 really bad games, first vs a chaos team that I forgot I could auto fail bottle tests and get out before he killed over half my dudes. And the second was a defending ambush against melta sisters while I was down 2 chaos marines. I chose to auto bottle my turn 2 after all but one of my guys were wounded. Luckily I rolled well on the wounding chart and lost one one/ no one had to sit out for a game. I chalk it up to new model/new dice syndrome. Lots or 1s to hit

>>53280332
Could be worse, in my first game 3 of my necrons who got hit rolled a 6 for injuries. Also got tied up twice to random attacks from wandering monster from the mission, think it was called scavenge.

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Thoughts on this =I= gang? I'm assuming Ms. Ordo Xenos has a team of suited acolytes to handle particularly odious Xenos. .

A pity stormbolters look awful on normal humans.

>>53281184
I think they look really awesome, great job!

>>53270380
>>53270380
You can!
>play with scouts
>save up prometheum
>before winning at 15
>spend all 14 prometheum on terminators
>knock knock, the first company's here!

While I'm thinking of wasting resources on stupid shit, what if at the end of a campaign instead of winning as soon as someone reaches 15 cache, all players participate in one big free for all, spending all the prometheum they've acquired. The "winner" would have the advantage with 15 cache but would still have to fight his way through the finish.

>>53281491
Sounds fun, but it does require that everyone has extra SpecOps to field.

>>53276987
You know, I always knew it was possible, but I've been too scared to try even a simple head-swap.

I'm shit at this game help me come up with a good leader for my Genestealer Cult. So far this is what I have

Neophyte Leader
-Autogun
-Chainsword
-Web Pistol
-Clip Harness

He has Infiltration from the campaign too. I want web pistol to be good, thoughts?

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I'm looking to play Inquisition in an upcoming campaign, but I want to make sure I'm not gimping myself out of the gate. Can I get thoughts on this list to start?

Inquisitor (340)
-Power Armour
-Powersword
-Combi-flamer

Acolyte w/+1 BS (143)
-Lasgun
-Hotshot Powerpack
-Weapon Reload
-Frag Grenades

Acolyte w/+1 BS (143)
-Lasgun
-Hotshot Powerpack
-Weapon Reload
-Telescopic Sight
-Camo Gear

Acolyte w/+1 BS (118)
-Lasgun
-Hotshot Powerpack
-Weapon Reload

Acolyte w/+1 WS (128)
-Laspistol
-Hotshot Powerpack
-Weapon Reload
-Chainsword

Acolyte w/+1 WS (128)
-Laspistol
-Hotshot Powerpack
-Weapon Reload
-Chainsword

>>53277947
"Noble hunters"? "Noble house hunters"?
"Aristocrat thrillseekers"? Something like that?

>>53281491
Well desu when a player reaches 15 pc they have to subsequently win a fight while holding their 15 pc, meaning they can't hire spec ops in their fight for the win. At the same time all other players can.

>>53281491
That could be a fun alternate win condition.

One thing we're doing locally is having a league lasting ten games over a month. At the end, everyone who has reached 20points will battle it out for the championship in a series of single elimination games.

>>53279475
yeah but then you can't shoot at stuff if you need to. For 10pts a slugga that's not really breaking the bank

Can someone explain why GW went full retard and made SWA a limited release?

>>53283196
You can give a boy two shanks and a pistol if you want to spend the points.

>>53283214
>limited release
Sure, just like the tidewall, Space Hulk, several model kits, etc.

I can garantuee that they'll produce more. They have been flying off the shelves, no chance they won't produce super popular books.

>>53283412
I guess I'm just a little salty. I've been away from the hobby for several years and came back for Blood Bowl. Now I wanna play SWA. I have loads of boyz, but I wanted the box.

>>53283214
They've released the rule book and the terrain seperately.

I'm pissed they stopped carrying the box set too, that thing was perfectly priced to get a couple of people playing.

So I won my first match with Grey Knights convincingly- I couldn't bottle the scout player, so I wiped his 5 man team out instead, not losing a single model.

How do I "power up" from here? I had a 4 man band, and I don't want to give up my incinerator on the gunner. I got my fifth dude, but I am mot sure how to proceed from here. I could throw psybolts on the storm Bolters, but what else?

I can't really see how I can really do much with the gear list here. I can't really like on better gear, and after the next game, I don't think there is any equipment left to get.

Will I just got a cap, and slowly start to get behind, as we get further into the campaign? Or what can I do to help stay on top of the power curve?

I expect to still be the better players, most of them are... terrifically bad at this game, and will literally put their guys right out in the open to get a single Bolter shot off. So maybe ill be okay?

Also what skill set should I focus on? Melee combat in general? That seems to be where the most growth is, courtesy of the rather powerful nemesis weapons + hammerhand.

>>53283427
The only reason to get the box would be getting that discount. All the parts (minis, terrain, rulebook) are available separately.

++ Kill Team (Chaos Space Marines) [1000pts] ++

+ Leader +

Aspiring Champion [250pts]: Bolt pistol, Mark of Tzeentch

+ Troopers +

Chaos Space Marine [155pts]: Boltgun, Mark of Tzeentch

Chaos Space Marine [155pts]: Boltgun, Mark of Tzeentch

+ Specialists +

Chaos Gunner [310pts]: Heavy bolter, Mark of Tzeentch

Chaos Gunner [130pts]: Mark of Tzeentch

++ Total: [1000pts] ++

Decent start for Rubric team? I think the heavy bolter is better than the autocannon against everything except nids and I doubt there will be any in the upcoming league. The plan is to use my first couple of advances to pick up some cultists and make sure everyone has a gun while I fish for scavenger. If I hit a lucky result I'll buy more marines instead of cultists. Going to try for inferno ammo everywhere.

I understand the list isn't optimal but I'm largely playing with a skill advantage over most of the folks in the League so I should be able to squeak out the wins even if I'm a little below the curve.

>>53283494
Fifth dude, psycannon, and little gribbly bits mostly. Your weapons are serious but you don't get anything to help you WIN combat so it's best if your shoot first and second, then melee if you must or have the distinct advantage. The good weapons will help make sure that when you do win you end it.

>>53283427
The new rule book is better than the one in the box and includes several additional teams.

>>53283567
Psycannon just isnt a flamer, and I want something to thin out the bunched up clumps of enemies everybody brings.

Also, looking over the equipment list, why would you ever take a Halbard? 20 points more gets you a vastly better weapon. D3 wounds and concussion? When exactly would you ever want to even consider the halbard?

>>53283755
>Also, looking over the equipment list, why would you ever take a Halbard? 20 points more gets you a vastly better weapon. D3 wounds and concussion? When exactly would you ever want to even consider the halbard?
Dont take any of them. Take the sword.

Parry and -3 armour is much more reliable. You are still striking at S6, and the parry helps you actually win the combat.

Daemonhammer and Halbard are trap choices in my opinion..

>>53283755
You can have a flamer AND a cannon. Two specialists.

And the Jalbert is the half measure. Go with sword for winning combat, or the hammer for trying to get lucky take outs on nids.

>>53284044
>Go with sword for winning combat, or the hammer for trying to get lucky take outs on nids.
You won't win combat against Nids with a hammer though.

And the bad thing with the hammer is the lack of an armour modifier. Even Nids have a 4+. You are likely still wounding on a 2+ with the sword, but it wont give them an armour save.

D3 wounds average 2 wounds. 4+ halves the amount of wounds taken. Statistically they should be even. But the sword has parry, which gives you a better chance to actually win combat, which pulls it ahead of the hammer.

And then you have to remember that the hammer is a 100 points, against the swords 60. 40 points is a large difference, when the cheaper option is theoretically better.

Does a box of cadians make a decent kill team? feel like painting some up.

>>53284610
You aren't winning with a sword either, not against WS 6 4 dice plus charge bonus. If you get lucky, you can either scratch them or kill them. Killing seems the better option.

And the hammer strikes at strength 8. That turns into an armor modifier of -5. No armor save there.

And you're ignoring hammerhands. The sword is dealing d3, the hammer is dealing d6.

So, as I said, the sword is better against everything except lucky take outs on nids.

>>53284610
If nids get the charge, which they will, there's a 70% chance it will roll at least 2 4+. A 4+ gives a combat total of 11, unreachable by the knight. Parry really doesn't help much.

>>53284684
Yeah, depending on your weapon wants. I don't think they have sniper rifles in the base box, but you can go grenades happy

>>53284803
I just went back to read that.

You are completely right. Holy shit we have played like 20 games wrong like this.

God DAMN that makes power swords absolutely brutal against terminator armour. S6 +3 means you reduce it by 6 to a 9 on 2d6. Jesus Christ.

I can't believe we missed this. Holy moly.

But yeah, hammerhand is nice, but it still just translates as double wounds. Of course, when you DO ignore the armour, the hammer is pretty good.

I do really like parries though. It gave a safety net against enemies with parries, and helps make you win combat in general.

The halbard is pointless though. Which is a shame, because all the other options are quite good. Staff for the guys you just want to survive CC at all cost, falchions for that potent early game weapon, hammer for those d6 wounds, and sword for the general purpose weapon that fits into most situations.

Not sure how halbard could have been balanced to ve useful though, it is just a shame that it sits in that awkward spot of never really being relevant.

>>53284874
As a Grey knights player, I ran warding staves on everything for most of the game, and focused on shooting instead.

3++ is a bitch to get through, and S5 is good enough to deal with most shitty CC thrash mobs that tries to pick a fight, or against those squishy special weapon guys with lascannons

>play wyches against Nids
>get a lucky catch early, and kill 1 of his guys
>he starts taking bottle checks.
>he rolled indomitable
>try to avoid combat and let him fail his check
>find out he can only fail on a double 6
What the fuck. If he rolls 11, he substract 1 and passes his leadership fucking 10.

How do you win against this shit? They'll literally never bottle outside of insane amounts of luck.

>>53284684
They only come with flamers and Grenade Launchers, so they're a bit limited in options. On top of that, they only get one of each special weapon.

It'll cost more, but I'd recommend buying two company command boxes to build a proper armageddon kill team. It will give you 2 each of all the special weapon options, special bits to make veterans, and lots of extra little bits and bobs to help customize your individual guardsmen to give them character (which is kind of the whole point of this game)

I would shoot for one plasma bare minimum, Grenade Launchers and Snipers both have very real uses in a list but will depend on meta. Grenade Launchers help deal with hordes and hard targets but lack weapon attachments as well as suffering penalties to hit at range, Sniper rifles excel at putting down low armor shooting armies at extreme range, and plasma just kills shit. Its hard to go wrong with plasma but if you know what you're gonna go up against other weapons can save your ass from time to time.

>>53285014
Leadership checks can never be above 10, that's how it's always been in base 40k and I don't recall seeing anything saying otherwise in shadow war.

So essentially rolling indomnitable only helps him if you rolled fear and confusion.

>Wiped out a Nid player completely with grenades and toxin snipers
>rolls on the serious injury table for his 4 bugs
>Rolls 4 6s
Fuck. I God damn hate that 6 result on the serious injury. I thrashed him, why the fuck is he getting the better end of the trade?

Should I literally just suicide my troops for free advances or what? It seems super stupid.

>>53285083

indomitable only helps with bottles

>>53285083
No. Read it.

His leadership is 10.

Indomitable doesn't increase leadership. It lets you subtract 1 from the roll. So a roll of 11 is 2 6s, a roll of 5+6 is 10.

X+y-1. You cannot roll 12 if you are subject to indomitable.

>>53284957
It's not a bad plan, though it looks awkward with every model carrying a stick. You really don't want to be in melee generally since being outnumbered is a death sentence up close. Relying on your superior firepower is the smart play.

>>53284928
I've seen a lot of folks miss that. And parries are great in general, just not so hot against nids. Nids are fucking brutal up close, and Knights don't even get to play the numbers game.

No point to the halberd though. It's been a waste of a sprue since it lost the initiative bonus. The sword is maybe too good in SWA, I think. It's got the best armor mod, a strength high enough to wound anything on a 2, and is cheaper than inferior options.

>>53285096
If you've got medics and that geurilla result that lets you reroll serious injury, yeah, that's possible. Keep in mind 2-3 can also cause your guy to go full retard and miss a mission.

Also he had just as good odds of having his whole team die, or worse, you capturing all his guys, which would disband his team permanently and you would've gotten a free 400pts to spend.

>>53285112
What the fuck, that is the most bizarrely worded thing I've heard in a 40k book. I mean I get it now that you've said it verbatim, that's the only way to make it work for LD 10 armies, but damn if that isn't a weird result.

>>53285063
Grenade launchers kill bugs dead like little else.

>>53285014
Indomitable is completely random. It's not like he's always there.

And think about how brutal the oil slick is for nids. Every time you run or charge, on a roll of a 1 you lose 20% of your team. Some events help one team more than the other.

>>53285122
Also, while I"m thinking about it, is anyone else's group finding out that rescue missions are absolute bloodbaths?

I have never seen both teams get absolutely brutally demolished like rescue missions. It's pretty much guaranteed to put most of the people on the mission out of action in our experience.

It's to the point that I think it's all but assured that from now on people will just trade for promethium/other prisoners. If the guy isn't too leveled up I honestly think I'd let the opponent keep him if I was low on promethium, I've seen missions go that badly.

>>53285122
>What the fuck, that is the most bizarrely worded thing I've heard in a 40k book. I mean I get it now that you've said it verbatim, that's the only way to make it work for LD 10 armies, but damn if that isn't a weird result.
Not just weird, but also ridiculously good.

An effective LD11 means they will almost never bottle.

I play grey knights, and I take leadership test all the time. It is so rare to roll those 2 6s, that it isnt really a concern. Sure, it will happen at some point, but with bottle tests, which are taken so rarely... it becomes nice when it happens, but not something you should ever expect actually happening.

Thankfully it is not garantueed, and the subplots are supposed to have a powerful impact on the game, so it is fine I guess.

>>53284684
Yes. You might want to get some of the old metal cadians with special weapons as well if you want snipers, plasma and melta.

>>53273069
Loving your work. The house of Iron will rise again.
Though it makes me chuckle every time I read it, I fell duty bound to point out 'Grav Cute' in the equipment description.

>>53285063
>they only get one of each special weapon.
No, they get two of each. Two heavy flamers and two grenade launchers.

>>53282452
>lasgun with hotshot powerpack
Switch it for boltguns and its a perfect list. I would also recommend a stormshield on the inquisitor.

>>53282452
Are you sold on the hotshot Las? Storm bolters are 15 pts more but so much better on all those BS4 Acolytes

So is there any word on the redundant skill rolls?

If I roll gunslinger without access to pistols, sustained fire when all guns already have sustained fire, etc.

I am considering if shooting skills are worth rolling on for my Grey Knights. 2 of 6 skills are worthless to me right now.

>>53285535
Read the current FAQ, its updated recently for those exact issues.

Leader
Aspiring Champion: Bolt Pistol, Camo Gear Mark of Nurgle (255)

Troop
Chaos Space Marine: Boltgun, Camo Gear Mark of Nurgle, (160)

Chaos Space Marine: Boltgun, Camo Gear Mark of Nurgle, (160)

Specialist
Chaos Gunner: Autocannon, Camo Gear, Mark of Nurgle (285)

Chaos Gunner: Additional Combat Blade Camo Gear, Mark of Nurgle (140)

I think that's 1000.

Extra blade on the gunner is just to use up points and the extra attack could help out if he gets into melee. I'd then get a special weapon of some sort for him. Meltagun maybe? I'd like another autocannon but that means dropping caches.

>>53285571
Ah right.

It only states the issue with gunslinger. What about sustained fire? Should I just assume most people would accept rerolling that as well, and ask to be sure before rolling?

>>53285643
Plasma, always plasma. Unless you expect to run into lots of termis, power armor, and nids, plasma will always be superior.

>>53281552
The Skitarii kit has got heads that could be used as Sororitas helmets. Though I have never seen Sisters of Silence so I can't say if they would fit.

>>53285658
>power armor
Plasma is perfectly fine against this.

Melta is super overkill against power armour.

>>53285698
Shit, was meant for >>53281650 and >>53276987

>>53285655
I would say if you CANNOT EVER use the skill then you can reroll. Like, if you roll fear on a harlequin, burly on a dark elder, or gunfighter on a Tyranid. If it's something that's just bad, like ambush on a double choppy ork, them's the breaks, and buy that boy a stikkbomb

>>53285658
>>53285700
Hmm, OK. What bout this?

+Leader+
Aspiring Champion: Bolt Pistol, Mark of Nurgle (250)

+Troop+
Chaos Space Marine: Boltgun, Camo Gear Mark of Nurgle, (160)

Chaos Space Marine: Boltgun, Camo Gear Mark of Nurgle, (160)

+Specialist+
Chaos Gunner: Plasma Gun, Camo Gear, Mark of Nurgle (215)

Chaos Gunner: Plasma Gun, Camo Gear, Mark of Nurgle (215)

>>53285655
>>53285761
This. They make this clear in the faq tho. If your unit cannot utilise the skill you can reroll. You cannot reroll if the unit can get a weapon that let it use the skill but you don't want to. If the unit has access to weapons that work with the skill you have to accept the result, even if that wasn't the route you were planning to go.

>>53285869
I am pretty sure you either recruit OR rearm, not both.

>>53285891
Yup you're right, I was going off memory. Disregard I suck cocks.

>>53285789
>>53285700
>>53285658
But what if you do run in to those things?

You need melta just in case you run in to a nid team.

>>53285809
They actually only specify gunslinger.

But I would also assume that this applies to fast shot. To be honest, if someone legitimately tried to deny you this, tell then to fuck off, and find someone who isnt retarded to play with. Yeah, it could be considered an advantage that you can only roll 4 of the 6 skills (thus giving you are better chance of rolling what you want), but you are a massive faggot if you think it is better to force someone to take an actually useless skill.

I like being forced to reconsider the role of someone. Like the leader you wanted to be a sniper, but rolled up gunslinger for, so instead you made him this gung-ho Cypher-like badass.

>>53285954
Not really.

Plasma guns are sustained fire. Yeah, they are not melta, but they are just fine against nids. Wounds on 2+, no armour. Chance of hitting more than once.

Nids don't require melta to be taken down. I am not sure where you get this idea from.

>>53285789
Thats a nasty list to be sure. I would buy your leader a chainsword before the pistol for the chance to bully a veteran sergeant or something to get your special dude rolling, then buy a plasma pistol ASAP.
>>53285954
As a nid player, i feel plasma is the best all-round option since its not melta that i seem to lose guys to, its krak grenades, and literally anything other than nids is better killed with plasma.

>>53285966
Yeah. It's a bit shit if you role a skill that doesn't actually help. There is a difference between a useless skill and a shit skill. If you roll a shit skill, tough shit, either switch your plan or don't. If you roll a skill that cannot be used by your guy, re-roll.

The skills are suppose to be used, if you can't use them, that sucks. And my use them I mean if you already have Fear and roll a Fear skill. If you're using a Heavy Bolter and get Gunslinger, tough titties. You can swap to dual pistols. I

>>53285992
Melta is also super overkill in general.

Yeah, you MIGHT be up against a terminator, but 1. You can kill him with plasma too, 2. You can also just kill everything around him and make him bottle.

I am not even sure why power armour was brought up. Power armour only requires -4 to negate entirely, and surely you have a lot of things in a regular kill team to reduce it at the very least. Like in 40k, it isnt that hard to punch through a 3+ save, and since most weapons have at least a -1, there isnt really a good reason to go overboard with trying to remove it completely.

>>53285992
Okay, I'll swap to chainsword and go for Plasma Pistol after first mission (and Camo Gear, I want to pretend they're giving off smoke/flies/fumes whatever that cover them). I can't remember if FAQ said you can't put Red Dots on Plasma Guns.

>>53285966
They use gunslinger as an example. The motivation for why you can reroll or not is general.

>>53286008
Yeah.

The issue crops up with lists that lack several of the options. Grey Knights can't use fast shot or gunslinger. No weapons without sustained fire, and no pistols.

That leaves 4 skills. Since you really want 3 of them (Crack shot, marksman and ammo hound), that makes it super easy to get something you want.

Of course I'd much rather give someone good skills he can use, rather than tell someone he has to pick a literally useless skill.

>>53286082
I dunno, make them pay for it in Rearm/Recruit points so they can roll on a skill they can actually use. It's a bit of a fucking problem.

As I said, a shit skill is different to one you can't use. Skills are suppose to make you able to fight better, if the skill is literally unusable (rolling Fear for a trooper that already has Fear) then you can re-roll. If your Specialist with a Heavy Weapon gets Gunslinger, sorry, if they can physically buy pistols, you either buy pistols or chalk it off as a waste. The upside is when they next progress, you will re-roll the Gunslinger if you get it again.

Which is what, at least in the spirit of the rules, should be done. If you have a Trooper who rolls Fear, then rolls on Fear a second time, the rules say to re-roll that result. So if your trooper has Fear as standard and you get Fear on the first roll, you should be able to re-roll.

Or you could House Rule. If you have Fear as default and roll on Fear again, they get Terror instead.

>>53275861

He's kinda right though. Mechanically nids have two arms like everything else but they can buy "paired" weapons for those arms.

This is where all the confusion over attacks comes from and it's a dead give away people haven't actually played Necromunda.

You never got attacks based on the amount of melee weapons you had you just got a bonus one for being armed with more than one single handed melee and all single handed melee, that was it. Pit Slaves and Mutants could get extra attacks for extra arms but they're exceptions.

You could equip a ganger with every pistol in the game and he would only get 1 bonus attack and as soon as you gave him a boltgun he'd lose it.

They've gotten rid of 1 handed/2 handed in SWA so now it's a simple as answering the question "do you have all melee weapons?" if you answered yes, regardless of the actual amount of melee weapons you have or can use, then you get +1 attack dice. If you answered no then you don't.

Lash Whip and Bonesword is the dodgiest one but still easy to resolve since the procedure for melee is you choose which 2 weapons to fight with so lets say a nids has a lash whip, a bonesword, and a pair of scything talons. This nid is armed with 3 weapons.

It can choose to fight with either the lash whip and the bone sword, the lash whip and the talons, or the bonesword and the talons. So you'd always pick the bonesword and the talons since that maximises your damage and the wording for the lash whips entangling snare ability doesn't say you have to attack with it to get the bonus, an enemy just has to be in melee with you.

That's the biggest difference, that a lash whip benefits a nid purely for being in melee rather than being wielded. Other than that the entire procedure is no different to a regular guy armed with say a bolt pistol, a power maul, and a chainsword.

>>53286129
>Or you could House Rule. If you have Fear as default and roll on Fear again, they get Terror instead.
I like this idea. And I agree with the rest.

>>53267699 here, considering swapping my melta guy for another Kasrkin mini without frags and with a plasma gun instead.
So here's what my new list would look like. Still don't know what to put in that specialist slot with the 140 pts I have left:

"Death Dodger" (Sergeant)
Frag grenades
Bolt pistol
170

Ramirez (Veteran)
Lasgun
85

Arnold (Veteran)
Lasgun
Telescopic sight
Camo gear
110

"Crazy Ivan" (Veteran)
Lasgun 25
Krak grenades
Frag grenades
150

"Juggernaut" (Specialist)
Carapace armour
Plasma gun
170

"The Mute" (Specialist)
Camo gear
Sniper rifle
Telescopic sight
Toxic rounds
Reload
175

As I said earlier, I can drop the camo on Arnold and the Mute, which would free 10 points. I don't really know if the having spare ammo for the sniper rifle is useful.
So I have between 140 and 170 points left to spend, and I don't know what to do with it. I could recruit two guardsmen with lasguns but that would be a bit lame, especially considering I still have one specialist slot unoccupied.

>>53286205
RAMIREZ! KILL THAT TYRANID PRIME WITH YOUR BAYONET!

>>53286129
Making people pay for lacking options is still fuck-you-faggot tier.

Grey Knights don't have bad options. They just literally dont have them. No non-sustained fire weapon options, and no pistols at all.

Shit skills are just too bad. Unusable skills shouldn't be possible.

>>53286185
You're wrong. A Tyranid can attack with all weapons it can wield. Same as everyone else. They're exceptions in the same sense as pitslaves or mutants were in Necromunda.

>>53286185
Kill yourself armfag

>>53286219
>Unusable skills shouldn't be possible.
They aren't. Unusable skills are rerolled. Shit skills are though luck.

>>53286129
The fear thing as a house rule might not be the best idea. Harlies are already top tier, and being able to get terror that easily would break the game.

>>53286227

Show me the part of the book were it says this and I'll agree otherwise you are literally making stuff up and cheating.

>>53286238

Not an argument.

>>53286185
>>53286227
I think we can all agree GW should clarify this.