How different would WF be with honorable, selfless, kind, loyal

>>53251629
Sounds like they would have been raped to extinction by goblins.

>>53251629
We allready have dwarves

>>53251629
>Order Skaven basically.

Honor, selflessness, kindness, and loyalty are in no way inherent to the concept of Order.

>>53251629
It's kind of hard to do 'honorable', and 'kind', and 'loyal' armies that use easily breakable human waves.

>>53251629
If scaven would work together at all times and not just in fight they will just flat out win because numbers or starve because not eating each other's with the numbers they have.

>>53254464
I've always thought that the race could have different standards for their own lives and the lives of others.

Like, Skaven keep the total disregard for each other intact because of their numbers, cannibalism, and the like, with maybe a slightly better twist on their thinking(Instead of slaves, Skaven could instead use conscripts, with the ones surviving earning a place in regular units, and eventually stormvermin units, for example), but have far better regard for people of other races.

Like, the Skaven would understand that their situation is unique, and would treat other races much better.

You could have some funny stuff, like Skaven hiring mercs and treating them better than their own soldiers, for example.

>>53254548
A race of cucks?
Swedish Skaven?

>>53254548
When I posted that, I really started to wonder how it could work, here was my solution:

>The only battles they fight are selectively determined to be for the greater good
>Since these battles are so important, they fight like a desperate army would
>No price is too large
>All are proud to be at the frontlines, to save the Old World

Basically a race of Vikings, who treat every battle like it's Ragnarok.

>>53254464
Why do you assume good Skaven would use human wave tactics? Wouldn't they be more like the Tau in that they'd focus on having a elite army that they outfit with the best tech possible? Except in this case the Tau would outnumber everyone and have the best tech in the setting.

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>>53251629

>>53255349
>Implying they'd have any tech

>>53255438
One of their defining characteristics is tech. Taking that away makes about as much sense as making dwarves luddite hippies.

>>53255349
If they still breed like rats you could get selfless waves of sacrifice directed by benevolent technocratic councils.

>>53255545
You're making them not evil, so why would they have their tech?
Their technology relies on crystallised evil magic, the fact they have no regard for the well being of those that use it, and no ethics when it comes to developing it.

>>53251629
it would be worse, for one

being stupidly evil is what characterises the skaven
if you remove the evil they would just be stupid


at best I can give you the original clan eshin in the east having developed into a different lifestyle, more akin to human values

>>53255676
Obviously they wouldn't use the same tech in cases where they powered it with warpstone, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't use tech. They also probably wouldn't make plagues, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't use medicine. Probably wouldn't breed abominations either, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't practice selective breeding.

Skaven already have their opposites in the form of Lizardmen and Dwarves.

>>53255545
>>53255676
wait, so we take away the "evil against humans", or do we take away everything that's sinister about them? bc in that case, they wouldn't even have their sheer numbers to compensate, since they'd stop treating their broodmothers like, well, like broodmaschines. and since warpstone is arguably evil, they wouldn't have magic. and slave-wafe tactics are evil, too... so what's left?

I'd argue that, in their own deragemd ways they already are the good guys, fighting for the greater good, only their fellow skaven are too stupid to realise/are too arogant and think themselves right, when in fact, we (the PC skaven) are the ones right about everything... and it is just fair that we get the spoils of war, you know, since we have the bestest plan of all times, only what is our due...

>>53255823
>that doesn't mean they wouldn't use tech.

Yes it does.
Imagine a world where humans never used fossil fuels.
They would be a very primitive race without access to warpstone and the total disregard for suffering and life.

>>53255349
If they stop using human wave tactics, they stop being Skaven. Skaven have 'callous disregard for life' as their main trait. If you take that away, you don't have Skaven.

>>53255778
clan mors and the albino (what are they called again?) citadel guard? are somewhat "loyal" skaven.

my take is that, if skaven stopped being skaven-like, they'd probably all adapt to clan eshin tactics of assassination. only way they'd be able to act, without being completely evil or buggered.

>>53255936
Op doesn't want skaven

he wants furries

>>53255622
Skaven breeding is completely government controlled, if they start getting too many Skaven they can just stem the flow from the breeding factories.
>>53255778
Except what makes a race stupidly evil is that if you remove one of the factors the other ceases to be a problem.

>>53255936
once again, clan eshin assassinations to further your agenda.
on the battlefield, Igrant you, they'd be buggered toall hell.

>>53255903
>Imagine a world where humans never used fossil fuels.
Then they'd still have a lot of tech. I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand.

>>53256007
>Then they'd still have a lot of tech.

Like what? They'd have no power to drive any of their machines. So what? Catapults? Sucking Dwarf cock for Black Powder?

>>53256007
90% of current tech is based on plastic.

Which was originally formed of fossil fuels.

>>53255999
Still, Callous disregard for life. Eshin has 'kill it to death' as their first and only solution.

>>53251629
Skaven are all of those things, except maybe kind.

But kindness has nothing to do with order.

>>53256200
How are they honorable?

>>53255878
>since they'd stop treating their broodmothers like, well, like broodmaschines
It's the way they reproduce and control the population. It's no more evil than abortions.
>since warpstone is arguably evil, they wouldn't have magic
Literally every race uses magic without warpstone.
>slave-wafe tactics
They wouldn't need to use human wave tactics because they'd have a professional united army and thus could put their tremendous industry into arming them instead of squandering their resources hoarding and fighting among themselves, they wouldn't need to use slaves in battle because more than enough Skaven would sign up of their own free will if they weren't all cowardly backstabbers.

>>53256265
>It's no more evil than abortions.

Super evil?

>>53255985
The don't want to stem the flow. It is an ultimate kindness to create beings with the honour of sacrificing themselves. They must make more if they have the capacity, to do otherwise would be to deny them their glory.

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>How different would WF be with

I dunno but it'd still be BTFO

>>53256057
>>53256046
I love how you idiots think a group needs modern tech to dominate a medieval setting. If Skaven can blow up the moon or invent telephones I think they can figure out steam engines.

>>53256265
>It's no more evil than abortions.
except of slavery and non-optional mutations (thanks, moulder) to turn them into brooding maschines
>>53256265
>Literally every race
yeah, but not them. so, they'd have to change that, too (well, warpstone-powered magic, but you know what I'm getting at)
>>53256265
>instead of fighting among themselves
well, thats what they did in the end times, isn't it? and with the totally not-evil goal... could've turned out allright if they'd won for good...
nah, seriously, if they all pulled together, how would they stop being evil? do you mean to tell me if you'd had the potential of conquering the whole world, and not only the potential but started arming an army capable of that, other nations wouldn't think you evil?
>>53256325
make them believe it, and you've got yourself a perfect skaven army

>>53256504
They only have wonderous technology because of warpstone.
They couldn't figure out steam engines, they had to try and steal a Steamtank to figure out how it worked.

>>53251629
They'd be like real life rats, whom are very clean and intelligent animals that are plagued by the misconception that they are filthy and unintelligent like mice due to being carriers for things like fleas and ticks which would spread disease and would end up blamed for it. Though, they were nusiances to the common man as any other small animal were.

>>53256504
Why do you think they'd be tech power houses when their tech relies on their evilness?
Why wouldn't they be a primitive shamanistic race instead?

>>53256569
t. ratman

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>>53251629
I would a Skaven.

>>53255437
Shame that Mouse Guard was not the first post.

>>53256849
Deviantart we meat again.